Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 05:34:59 AM
First of all, note the following level:
We previously believed it to be Pit's but the new Pit level was basically revealed in the latest SSBB trailer (the one with the crumbling platforms and the statues).
So who the hell does this level belong to?
I think Sakurai dropped enough info for us to determine yet another secret character. The clues we had previous were:
1. The light blue line pattern on the ground with a purple pulse running through it.
2. The hovering platforms with the glowing yellow line around them.
3. The glowing blue crystal with a semicircle railing around it stuck to the bottom of the stage which appears to be holding the level aloft and the expansive landscape below.
4. The rising sun emblem next to Snake before he pops out of the box.
And in the latest trailer, we received a NEW clue...
5. The moon, planet or something which VERY CLEARLY floats past in the background.
Trouble is, I'm at a total loss for whose level this could be, which is why I'm posting my findings here. The level was first believed to be incomplete, but after having seen it brought back in the second trailer, I think it definitely means something.
Anyone have any theories or ideas which might get the research going in the right direction?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 03, 2006, 05:42:05 AM
Maybe these details you mention really mean nothing and are just fancy stage decorations. Maybe this is a throwback to either Canvas Curse or the newest game, squeek squad?
Although to be honest, I am clueless as well...
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 03, 2006, 05:45:11 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 03, 2006, 05:53:42 AM
Although to add some views onto SB's theory, ALL of the stages in the SSB series have always been designed to fully represent the character and the game it celebrates. Nothing was added in for the sake of it. For example, the Brawl Yoshi stage was created to look like a big, chalk drawing. Do you think they did it for the hell of it? No. If you know your games then you know that the Yoshi games have always been made to look like a vivid, chalk drawing come to life. This stage represents that aspect of the series.
So while on one hand the details SB posted could be nothing more but random stage elements, on the other don't be surprised if they are important aspect of a game series or character.
Post by: Ceric on November 03, 2006, 06:19:47 AM
Though it's definetly some games.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2006, 06:21:19 AM
Of course, one could also argue that many characters had two levels in SSBM, so this could still be a Kid Icarus level, or the levels might even be multi-tiered, as sugested by Bill in the trailer thread.
Post by: ThePerm on November 03, 2006, 06:26:33 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 06:27:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
In other news. A character from Golden Sun series would be a good addition.
Whoa...I didn't think about that. That thing in the background kinda looks like the one-eyed guardian, but I might be reading too much into it.
I still think the stage has far too many unique elements which couldn't be inspired by randomness to not represent a character.
I'm just at a loss regarding who that character might be...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 03, 2006, 06:30:54 AM
1. The Golden sun series are a rather obscure RPG series with only two games under its belt
2. Didn't Camelot left Nintendo (or stopped developing for Nintendo) a while back?
I think if they include some sort of library feature in Brawl we could see them, but I don't see them featured as playable characters.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 06:36:28 AM
The sun emblem is actually a sundial and the platforms have blue lines lining them on top.
Hmm, if the passing of time is relevant to the level...
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2006, 06:37:18 AM
Edit: did my research...Camelot is working on the PC game, but I couldn't find any clear indication of what that means for their relationship with Nintendo. Still I think Nintendo is pretty fond of Camelot (one article quoted a Nintendo exec as calling Camelot the "Columbus of unopened game markets" which sounds like just what Nintendo wants right now).
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 03, 2006, 06:52:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
No Camelot's still dealing with Nintendo, or at least it's not-not dealing with them. If I remember correctly Camelot did do a project on PC a while back but I think it was confirmed that that project was not an indication that Camelot was ditching Nintendo.
Edit: did my research...Camelot is working on the PC game, but I couldn't find any clear indication of what that means for their relationship with Nintendo. Still I think Nintendo is pretty fond of Camelot (one article quoted a Nintendo exec as calling Camelot the "Columbus of unopened game markets" which sounds like just what Nintendo wants right now).
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I know back in summer I heard of a split between Camelot and Nintendo but I wasn't 100% sure about it.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 03, 2006, 06:54:58 AM
Also, I'm pretty sure the planet-like thing was moving within the stage. I don't know if that means anything. Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me. I've already wasted enough of my work day watching the video, so I can't check right now.
edit: My grammar and punctuation suck today.
Post by: JonLeung on November 03, 2006, 07:15:03 AM
Considering that the game isn't done, and that they'd probably increase the roster, they would and could have stages (and characters) of obscure (or even new and upcoming) franchises.
On another note, in response to a previous comment; I don't think having only two games will rule a character or a stage from Golden Sun out. The Ice Climbers' games are just rereleases of the same game, and before Super Smash Bros., Fox only had two games, and Star Fox 64 was really a retelling of the first game. Also at the time, I think North America only had the first generation of Pokémon games (Red/Blue/Yellow), which are essentially just the same game, and at the the time of Melee, did we even have any Fire Emblem games? And we know Pit is in Brawl, and he only has two games.
If having only one or two games doesn't rule them out, I expect Chibi Robo, an Animal Crossing resident, one of the robots from Custom Robo (Ray?), Olimar from Pikmin, and probably a CO from Advance Wars/Battalion Wars to be in Brawl. Not to start more character speculation again, but there's got to be at least one of those.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2006, 08:00:42 AM
Post by: JonLeung on November 03, 2006, 08:09:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Maybe this stage is from an area in Twilight Princess that hasn't been revealed in any released screenshots. It looks like it could fit Zelda to me.
That's possible. The glowing parts give it a slight techy feel but I remember there was on Twilight Princess trailer that showed some enemies and the way they entered the area and you'd think it'd be something out of Metroid. Also, I recall the design of some Armos Knights as having glowy lines.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 03, 2006, 10:28:14 AM
I'm willing to bet that this is a Kirby stage and is based on any of the newer Kirby games (Kirby and the amazing mirror, Kirby Canvas curse and Kirby Squeak squad).
Has ANYONE played those games? If so, are there levels similar to this stage?
Post by: Terranigma Freak on November 03, 2006, 10:39:09 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 10:50:40 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 03, 2006, 11:37:16 AM
Personally I think this stage just replaces the Battlefield, but I'd crap my pants if it were for a Golden Sun character...
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2006, 11:40:30 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 12:06:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion As I mentioned in the Brawl thread, there is a day/night system to some (or most likely, all) of the stages, so it makes sense for the moon to be flying by...
The stage is WAY too intricately designed to just be another battlefield stage.
Also, on the subject of day/night systems, are you sure you didn't just deduce that from the changing of the seasons in the Yoshi level and this level's day/night changes? I watched the trailer very carefully and the only scenes where we see changes in time are the day/night change in this stage and the season change in Yoshi's stage.
The sundial sits as the centerpiece of the entire stage: the massive emblem in the middle encompasses it.
Since we see the day change to night in the trailer, I believe that has to be a specific part of the stage and the game it represents.
Unfortunately, the only two games I can find which that would seem to be an integral part of (so far) are Boktai and Vexx, neither of which I would think would be represented in SSBB.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2006, 12:08:56 PM
Isn't Boktai Konami? Konami already is involved with Solid Snake. Maybe there are more Konami characters.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 12:17:01 PM
I'm not posting anything yet, not until I have something conclusive, but if this is indeed the case, then holy CRAP, this character is going to come right out of left field...
More soon...
Post by: JonLeung on November 03, 2006, 12:18:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Unfortunately, the only two games I can find which that would seem to be an integral part of (so far) are Boktai and Vexx, neither of which I would think would be represented in SSBB."
Isn't Boktai Konami? Konami already is involved with Solid Snake. Maybe there are more Konami characters.
Oh, great. Smash Bros. Vs. Konami Wai Wai/Wacky Racers... >_<
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 03, 2006, 12:40:49 PM
"The mission in most levels are to destroy a temple and sundial in each area or time period."
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 12:45:31 PM
Yeah, that was the only real guess I had at this point, but it's a long-shot if there ever was one. I highly doubt Nintendo would add a game which hasn't even been released yet.
There's very, very little information regarding RotR right now and while it does look like an awesome shooter, I've as of yet seen no evidence that the game will necessarily ever exist.
But the evidence was:
1. Sundial and temple.
2. The canyon below which was focused on in the beginning of the trailer is reminiscent of what a RotR level would look like.
3. In the DS trailer, the spitfire seems to have two of whatever is keeping the island aloft attached to its engines (but that's a stretch and a half).
Like I said, it would be grasping at straws without any conclusive screenshot evidence: I'm not going to be satisfied until I see either those yellow rimmed platforms or that pulsing line design in a screenshot of another game before I call it as such.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 03, 2006, 12:51:02 PM
I think it's highly unlikely. Chances are the game won't even come out before SSBB does. On the other hand, they're fighting by a sundial in temple ruins high above a river. It's intriguing, to say the least.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 01:06:35 PM
As for the idea, like I said, this would come so far out of left field that it would be remarkable. I've no doubt that Nintendo likes Nibris as Nintendo definitely wants indie dev companies to flock to the Wii with their strange and unusual ideas, any one of which could be the next Pokemon.
But this would be placing a TON of faith in an untested franchise and a basically untested developer, something which I'd advise AGAINST Nintendo doing.
Though, Nibris clearly likes Nintendo...
We support only consoles of the company which brought games to life - Nintendo. Not because we are blind fans of this firm, but because the philosophy and path chosen by this company suits us the most. Video games have reached a wall they will not break - an audio-visual wall. In an age of commercial hits with two numbers in the title, a larger number of players is reluctant to play the same titles, enriched with only a larger number of military training grounds and textures. The video games department has therefore come to a standstill. Nintendo, the synonym of video games and entertainment, decided to conquer this barrier. The company has decided to create new systems, which through their solutions direct games to completely different paths. The many ideas that we apply wouldn't have a chance on other systems other than DS and Revolution.[Wii]
Not like I haven't heard that same song and dance from Silicon Knights, though. Still, I like this theory more than the Vexx theory, which is the only other character I can find which actively uses a sundial to change night and day. I mean, WTF has Akklaim done for Nintendo lately...or ever?
It'd have to come from right out of left field, to say the least, but I'm going to continue entertaining other theories in the meantime, until, of course, someone posts a screenshot of a level in Kirby Squeak Squad which looks exactly like this...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 03, 2006, 03:04:57 PM
As for the game, first time I heard of it and I just saw the trailer.
The problem I have with your theory SB is that the two games look VERY different.
This stage is extremely colorful and bright, while Raid looks to be a gritty dark War shooter with a palette of black and brown. Had this stage been based on that game, it would've a lot darker. Plus like Partybear said, there's the chance that the game might not get released before SSB Brawl.
So my money is still on Kirby. The stage resembles the artstyle of the newer games (save for Canvas curse) to me.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 03:16:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Wow, you are NOT going to let this die, eh SB? :p
Not like I have anything better to do right now.
I'm going to keep researching to see what I can find.
Frankly, I expect a NES game from the depths of obscurity at this point.
Vexx used the concept of a sundial to change from day to night, but I highly doubt Acclaim came up with that idea on their own.
I'm betting that if I can find the game they lifted that idea from, we'll know whose stage this is.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 03, 2006, 03:33:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Wow, you are NOT going to let this die, eh SB? :p
Not like I have anything better to do right now.
I'm going to keep researching to see what I can find.
Frankly, I expect a NES game from the depths of obscurity at this point.
Vexx used the concept of a sundial to change from day to night, but I highly doubt Acclaim came up with that idea on their own.
I'm betting that if I can find the game they lifted that idea from, we'll know whose stage this is.
I think Akklaim went bankrupt some years ago. Can anyone clear this for me?
Also, Vexx was a JOKE of a character. They tried so hard to create an in your face mascot character that they forgot to create a solid game behind him and thus, died as quickly as he was conceived.
I agree that this must be based on an obscure Nintendo game, or an obscure element from a Kirby game. The keyword here, people, is obscurity. Otherwise, we wouldn't be pondering just where the hell is this stage from.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 07:10:23 PM
However, I've recently been given a NEW theory...
Remember a while back how we read that Hideo Kojima would be designing a level in SSBB? Everyone probably just assumed that it was Snake's level he would be designing.
I think it's this one, because I think this level is based off of Boktai because it's the only other game I've found which uses a night and day system like this.
And Boktai is Kojima's OTHER pet project: I'm betting THIS is his level.
I don't think we'll see a Boktai character, but this is more than likely the level Kojima designed.
I will say THIS, though: if this level comes up again in another trailer with weather effects, my theory is going to change again. Here's why, from the information regarding Raid Over the River on Wii:
The mission in most levels are to destroy a temple and sundial in each area or time period, whilst avoiding the constant attack from enemy forces. These forces, however, will not be the only problems the player will face. Certain levels have environmental challenges against you; in one level, for example, you must fly with the compromise of a blinding sun. Another sees you piloting in thunder and hail, whilst an earlier mission features a meteor storm.
I'm leaning toward Kojima's Boktai level, but meteor showers could make for some interesting mid-fight obstacles...
Post by: Strell on November 03, 2006, 07:21:47 PM
It's going to be widely known gaming icons. End of story.
I am hoping for Vic Viper. I want to option yo' azzez.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 07:31:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell You know, I love Smash Bros and all, but secret characters aren't worth this kind of conspiracy theory effort.
I ain't gonna lie: I eat this sh*t up, especially when I have 2 weeks to go while waiting for the Wii to launch.
Post by: Mario on November 03, 2006, 07:32:07 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on November 03, 2006, 09:07:29 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 03, 2006, 09:52:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
A Pikmin level could have a day / night system, at night time all the nasties come out and try to harm you.
That would be rather neat, but this stage doesn't fit the bill for that kind of setup.
A Pikmin level would rock, though, where everyone is tiny and you die from being knocked into a puddle...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 04, 2006, 07:00:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Strell You know, I love Smash Bros and all, but secret characters aren't worth this kind of conspiracy theory effort.
I ain't gonna lie: I eat this sh*t up, especially when I have 2 weeks to go while waiting for the Wii to launch.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons you eat this sh*t up is because its like solving one giant puzzle. And half the fun is finding out if you were close or not.
Am I right?
About the Pikmin level, I would see it close to the ground, with the enemies popping in and out of the background and cause damage to both the characters and the level (like Kraid (sp?) ) in Melee.
Post by: Strell on November 04, 2006, 07:22:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caterkiller
They may not all be big gaming Icons Strell. Sakurai has stated somewhere on the official site that just adding nothing but popular characters would be boring to him. Now I could never imagine a non-iconic 3rd party character, but a non-iconic nintendo character? sure.
But Nibris? That's stretching it. That's a company that hasn't made an actual game yet.
I could imagine a non-iconic character like, say, the little balloon thing from Clu Clu Land. I mean, Ice Climbers are relatively unknown in the midst of gaming today (probably better known at the height of NES popularity).
I think trying to find non-iconic Nintendo stars is harder than picking iconic ones. I guess you could argue Olimar and such, but don't those characters end up being trophies? 'Cuz I doubt there would be trophies of playable cahracters. And yes I'm quite aware you can win a few different trophies with each playable character, and in some instances, more (such as Kirby).
Again, I think speculation is fun, but it aint gonna lead us nowheres. Might as well try and not go crazy in the meantime (which is infuriating, cuz I really wants me some Smash Bros pie).
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 04, 2006, 07:43:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell But Nibris? That's stretching it. That's a company that hasn't made an actual game yet.
I think he meant that the level could be from a lesser known Nintendo character, not Nibris.
I'm running with the theory that Hideo Kojima designed the level after Boktai: that explains the sundial, the changing day, and the revelation that Kojima would be designing a level in SSBB. Like I said, they said he would be designing a level in SSBB, and I think everyone assumed (even the initial report) that it would be Snake's level he would design but I think it was this one.
I can't imagine a Boktai character in the game, not TWO Konami characters, especially when there are so many worthier 3rd party franchises to pick from.
If David McBride from RotR shows up in SSBB, even though I kinda predicted it, I will STILL sh*t myself.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 04, 2006, 08:25:19 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 04, 2006, 08:45:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
From what I recall, there aren't any sundials in Boktai...If it were designed after that game, it was designed VERY poorly...
Dammit, why do you have to reopen the case?
Post by: stevey on November 04, 2006, 04:49:46 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 04, 2006, 04:51:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
It looks short of like a starfox level to me...
Did SFA have a sundial in the game?
It's been too long for me to remember...
Post by: RiskyChris on November 04, 2006, 08:43:30 PM
Oh snap.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 05, 2006, 11:01:44 AM
It's the weird glowing pattern on the floor of the stage that I absolutely cannot place anywhere...
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2006, 11:22:16 AM
Post by: Ceric on November 05, 2006, 11:28:39 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 05, 2006, 11:28:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
No sundials in SFA or Sonic...
I know they're not in Sonic.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
It sort of looks like the glowing lines on Midna. (The floor blue thing)
I'd think the level itself would have more going for it from the twilight world, though.
However, a level bathed in the eerie glow effect of the twilight world would indeed be awesome...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 06, 2006, 03:19:46 AM
I remembered something that leads me to believe that this is indeed a Kirby stage...
I am not 100% sure, but the stones and the colors remind me of the newer Kirby games. I know I have seen those type of details in the Kirby games before. Also, might as well take a shot at it...I think Sakurai is NOT hinting at a secret character, he is hinting towards a NEW Kirby game on the Wii...
Think about it, the stage looks very Kirby-esque, but has details we have never seen before. Those details could be from the GC Kirby game that never came out but might be resurrected on the Wii. In fact on the 2007 releases thread it was mentioned that Kirby Wii was undecided for a 2007 release, meaning that the game is in development as we speak, or they moved what they had made from Kirby GC and ported it over (considering they did it with Twilight princess, Super Paper Mario and the DK Racing game).
I may be wrong with this, but the stage looks too Kirby-esque for it to be from another game or character.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 06, 2006, 05:46:47 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 06, 2006, 05:48:01 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 06, 2006, 05:50:55 AM
Post by: ryancoke on December 06, 2006, 05:56:26 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 06, 2006, 06:00:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ryancoke My vote is the Chef from Burger Time
That would make for a genuinely interesting stage...
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 06, 2006, 06:00:21 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 06, 2006, 06:18:51 AM
Post by: ryancoke on December 06, 2006, 07:01:17 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 06, 2006, 07:14:08 AM
Post by: Khushrenada on December 06, 2006, 03:57:11 PM
I'd have thought it might be a Twilight Princess Zelda stage but I guess noght. After all, the Wind Waker had some elements on night/day and I thought that might carry over to Zelda:TP but I guess not. Right now, Raid over the River still looks like the best choice. If you look in the vidoe, this stage is also floating over a river. It just seems the elements are pointing towards that the most.
Actually, the best thing to do would be to take a page from Sherlock Holmes. Rule out, everything that it is not. Then whatever is left is the answer.
I'm guessing since no one posted a guess in this direction it probably isn't a possibility but would this have anything to do with Baton Kaitos? I've never played the game but this picture just struck as something that would fit the stage. Maybe because of the colors. But the artstyle makes it seem like it could fit this stage. Plus it is an island in the sky. What do you think?
Post by: Arbok on December 06, 2006, 04:24:38 PM
Wouldn't be nearly as fun as guessing what game it might be related to, of course, but one can't rule out that it might not be attached at all to any current series.
