Post by: hudsonhawk on September 26, 2006, 09:01:35 AM
Rumor is they're going to announce it at X06 tomorrow. My only concern is that the 360 controller isn't well suited to fighting games. They need a "retro controller" gamepad thingy like the Wii's getting.
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 26, 2006, 09:08:45 AM
Post by: JonLeung on September 26, 2006, 09:32:56 AM
I kinda liked KI and KI2/KIG.
I remember when I actually knew how to make combos...let's see...opener, linker, then some special move, which I guess is another linker, then an ender or an Ultra Combo ender. As the opponent falls back down I give them a projectile to juggle.
Then there were C-C-C-Combo Breakers. Pop-ups (quick recovery and counter-hit after being knocked down). Aerial openers. Jump-in openers (quick to quick, medium to fierce, fierce to medium). Starting a combo with the end part of a multi-hit special move (like using the last part of B. Orchid's Flik-Flak to extend the combo longer than usual and pull off a 48-hit combo in the first KI). Ultimate Combos (which weren't really combos). Etc.
I bet I can still remember the combo names...let's see...Triple, Super, Hyper, Brutal, um...something for seven..., Awesome, um...something for nine..., Monster, King, Killer, Ultra, Ultimate...
Yeah, it was cool - at the time. I think it helped that it was a Nintendo-exclusive fighter that had a real combo system, even if few people actually did learn every possible nuance.
(If Kim Wu, Maya, and B. Orchid are jiggly, then Tecmo's DoA girls are gonna have some competition on the Xbox 360!)
Hard to say if it would've done better on a Nintendo console. I guess it depends on how much the game is promoted.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 26, 2006, 09:38:16 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 26, 2006, 09:45:30 AM
Post by: Athrun Zala on September 26, 2006, 09:55:42 AM
(the name of the seven hit combo was Master, but I can't remember the name of the nine hit one...)
let's see if Rare can pull this off (they have been screwing up a lot for the past years...)
Post by: nitsu niflheim on September 26, 2006, 10:05:41 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 26, 2006, 10:26:46 AM
I hated Mortal Kombat's first 3 games. I thought the fighters were generic, and the lack of individual fighting styles hurt. So to me the only two fighting games worth playing were the Street Fighter games and Killer Instinct 1 and 2.
Killer Instinct 2 was much prettier and was amazingly fun to watch, but the gameplay got too complicated, and relied too heavily on knowing how to break combos. I didn't invest that much time in the game, so I was hurting bad when I played other people.
Killer Instinct was quite unique and enjoyable, but going back to the game I wonder if I would still enjoy it.
I won't miss the series going to Xbox, but I do find it sad that Rare and MS won't let the original games on the virtual console, I mean without Nintendo the franchise wouldn't exist.
Post by: Galford on September 26, 2006, 02:11:17 PM
I could be wrong. A real coup would be the annoucement of Killer Instinct 3.
Post by: Nick DiMola on September 26, 2006, 02:31:14 PM
Post by: JonLeung on September 26, 2006, 06:59:19 PM
Post by: Arbok on September 26, 2006, 07:05:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
I remember now! 9 hits and 7 hits were "Blaster" and "Master"...which is weird that I forgot since "Blaster" is kind of out there, and Blaster Master was such a wicked NES game.
I didn't really play much of the SNES one, mostly the N64 for me so what sticks in memory is the awesome "ULTIMATE... COMBOOOOOoo...!"
Still, this was easily my favorite franchise from Rare, other than Donkey Kong Country I suppose. I always loved the characters from this fighting game, and still very much wish Nintendo had been cut throat and kept the rights to this series as I wouldn't have minded seeing another firm handle a sequel.
Post by: JonLeung on September 26, 2006, 07:17:14 PM
I'd always hear about GoldenEye. The platforming fans liked Banjo-Kazooie. And Conker was controversial.
But KI? It's like Rareware fans and fighting fans are separate, that you don't hear much about KI. (Kind of like how Mega Man fans and Metal Gear fans must be totally separate groups, for it to take so long for anyone to conceive of the Metal Gear Solid bosses as Mega Man X-type robotic animal bosses (see VGMaps.com's April Fool's joke this year)...)
But I digress. I keep driving topics off-topic. Anyway, maybe KI was at its peak before people loved Banjo and GoldenEye...which is probably the case.
Regardless, I'm not sure how well it'll do on the Xbox 360. I still think Perfect Dark Zero, and a possible KI sequel, would work better on a Nintendo console where there are less "mature" games. Stupid Microsoft buy-out.
EDIT: Oops, I remembered that I thought Viva Pinata would do better on the Wii...for the same reason. >_<
Post by: Kairon on September 26, 2006, 07:41:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
Regardless, I'm not sure how well it'll do on the Xbox 360. I still think Perfect Dark Zero, and a possible KI sequel, would work better on a Nintendo console where there are less "mature" games. Stupid Microsoft buy-out.
EDIT: Oops, I remembered that I thought Viva Pinata would do better on the Wii...for the same reason. >_<
That's not true and you know it. The only two things holding back Rare's sales are:
#1 the XBox 360 costs almost $300 more than what kids are able to afford and
#2 Rare's games are ... sub... par... I wouldn't have bought Kameo on the XBox 360, OR on the Gamecube, I had that one pegged as "meh" from the first Nintendo Power description.
Just because you move a sucky game to a Nintendo system does not mean Nintendo fans will buy it.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on September 26, 2006, 10:01:47 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 27, 2006, 05:50:04 AM
Wait..that didn't help Star Fox Adventures from sucking...or Banjo and Kazooie. Yeah, I said. What you going to do about it? That game sucked.
Post by: JonLeung on September 27, 2006, 06:24:37 AM
Rareware was best in the N64 era, and whether or not you can be sure if it was Microsoft, Nintendo, or themselves that affected their games' quality, I think we all agree that their time in the spotlight has passed.
So perhaps that while being a KI fan, I'm leery of KI3 in any case. Even if it came to the Wii I'd wonder how a complex fighting game would do while Nintendo's targetting casual gamers. Not that there isn't room for more complex games, it's just not the right time to push them.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 27, 2006, 06:26:28 AM
Nintendo's watchful eye didn't save Geist. The game may possibly be underrated, but there's no arguing that it's one of the best games on the system, that's for sure.
Post by: Kairon on September 27, 2006, 06:36:01 AM
Q.E.D.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: hudsonhawk on September 27, 2006, 07:47:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
The question is how much better could Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero would have been with Nintendo's watchful eye over Rare?
They both just felt unfinished. I think it wasn't the lack of a watchful eye, I think they just didn't have enough time, which is something that Rare really really likes to take a lot of.
In both case there were moments of brilliance interspersed with lots of mediocrity or bugginess. Also, they forgot to tell the stories for both of them - PD0 takes these crazy leaps towards the end where its clear they cut out cinematics or perhaps entire levels. I still don't know what the hell happened at the end, all of the sudden you're fighting the bad guy and he gets all Matrix on you. It's so out of left field it's laughable.
Post by: JonLeung on September 27, 2006, 08:35:01 AM
I don't know why people think Rare always used to take so much time. In the N64 days, they churned out like two games a year - but they were above-average quality. But now, Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo get a few years and it's apparently still not enough time? (Sure, you could exclude the time they made two Xbox games, Grabbed By The Ghoulies, and the port of Conker, and a few GBA games...but it still seems like they could've done better from what it sounds like.)
Post by: KDR_11k on September 27, 2006, 08:44:21 AM
Post by: hudsonhawk on September 27, 2006, 09:14:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
Not enough time? How much time did they need?
Apparently more than they had. Who knows how much work has to be thrown away when you move from platform to platform.
I'm not justifying it, it's just clear that these games were rushed for launch.
At any rate, it turns out the rumor was false, at least for now. They announced Banjo Kazooie for the 360 at X06 an hour ago (along with lots of other crazyness - Halo RTS, a Peter Jackson game studio / Halo 4 collaboration, a new Bungie title is in the works, etc).
Story
Post by: JonLeung on September 27, 2006, 09:22:53 AM
Since I liked the Banjo games, I'm curious as to what "Banjo-Kazoothree" (or "Banjo-Kaz60" or whatever) will look like, but I will probably still wonder if it will do well at all.
I guess this topic is dead for now if KI isn't coming after all. Maybe hand that over to Tecmo. I must admit I did look forward to bouncy B. Orchid and Kim Wu.
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 27, 2006, 12:42:04 PM
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on September 27, 2006, 06:47:57 PM
Quote
]Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
The series wasn't that good. The first was awesome...but the second got too complicated.
Quote
Banjo and Kazooie. Yeah, I said. What you going to do about it? That game sucked.
Does not computer
Post by: KDR_11k on September 27, 2006, 10:26:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
You will have to collect combos by unlocking them one at a time in order...and until you do you can't use them vs mode.
And you aren't told what they are until you inputted them?
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 28, 2006, 04:54:18 AM
You know I realized recently I have become more negative and cynical than I usually am...I am going to try to back away from that soon.
As for my distaste for Banjo though. The game felt stiff. I disliked having to learn all my moves and collect times to learn new moves. Mario was smooth in that all your moves were open to you from the beginning.
Sure Banjo tried to do the whole Metroid thing by locking certain areas up until you have learned those new moves, but it didn't feel right to me at all. The game was just tedious and boring.
Post by: ThePerm on October 10, 2006, 05:49:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
(Mortal Kombat's better now... >_< Can't we just forget 4, Gold, and the side-stories?)
pssst, MK4 is my favorite one...I am the master 2 master on ultimate difficulty!!!
Post by: Sempuukyaku on October 13, 2006, 09:19:53 PM
Perfect Dark Zero = LAME
Kameo = DECENT
Star Fox Adventures = LAME
They've really gone downhill over the last few years, which is why Nintendo was wise to sell them off. I don't know if the team that did the original KI is still at Rare or not, but if they're not they need to forget about it or they're going to ruin yet ANOTHER sequel.
