Post by: Jin-X on September 20, 2006, 02:29:54 PM
Runs for cover over impending fanboy meltdown.
Post by: blackfootsteps on September 20, 2006, 02:34:11 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 20, 2006, 02:37:59 PM
Post by: Neodymium on September 20, 2006, 02:45:54 PM
Just cancel the Gamecube version and end all debate, Nintendo.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 20, 2006, 02:56:28 PM
That wouldn't end the debate. People would just talk about the Zelda that could have been, particularly if the Wii version has any flaws that someone could say "well the Cube version wouldn't have had that". People still talk about the missing dungeons from Wind Waker. The second Nintendo annouced two versions of the game the debate was created and will live on forever, unless the Wii version really is vastly superior to the Cube version and there isn't any "evidence" of Nintendo "sabotaging" the Cube version to make the Wii look better than it is.
Post by: Svevan on September 20, 2006, 03:09:42 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 20, 2006, 03:34:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
Just when I was set on not buying the GC version, now it seems a bit more INTERESTING for being reversed.
LOL.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Crimm on September 20, 2006, 03:57:26 PM
I agree.
Post by: JonLeung on September 20, 2006, 03:58:30 PM
This should be interesting for people who buy the wrong strategy guide...
Couldn't they have mirrored the GameCube one as well, so that they could be the same? Are there really that many Zelda fans that NEED Link to be left-handed? I'm a huge Zelda fan...am I really going to freak out 'cause Link decided to switch sword hands? NO. Sheesh.
Post by: Jin-X on September 20, 2006, 04:02:29 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 20, 2006, 04:14:39 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 20, 2006, 04:41:43 PM
Quote
Are there really that many Zelda fans that NEED Link to be left-handed? I'm a huge Zelda fan...am I really going to freak out 'cause Link decided to switch sword hands? NO. Sheesh.
I'm the biggest Zelda fan here AND a dominant southpaw, so I'm fairly upset...By fairly upset, though, it's more of a "Eh, oh well"...I sure hope Ninty includes Southpaw in the next Zelda...
Quote
I wonder if somebody who had no idea about this would even notice, and could there be bugs/glitches that could arise because of the mirroring?
Only if the bugs were there in the first place...
Post by: Mario on September 20, 2006, 04:51:59 PM
Post by: Shift Key on September 20, 2006, 05:11:09 PM
Also, I really want to see that Zelda game where your slashes are mimicked by Link. TP does the generic movement slash, and that's about it. I want to STAB PARRY DODGE DUCK DIP DIVE AND DODGE and see Link do the same. But I guess that means I'll have to roll around the place.
Post by: JonLeung on September 20, 2006, 05:21:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jin-X
I wonder if somebody who had no idea about this would even notice, and could there be bugs/glitches that could arise because of the mirroring?
If something like the camera had an asymmetrical glitch (like maybe it can somehow be forced to the left side but not the right or vice versa), and that didn't happen to be mirrored as well, then perhaps one version might have more or different glitches than the other.
Post by: Mario on September 20, 2006, 05:25:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shift Key
So there's a mirror mode? Wow, let the rampant fanboys run with this one because I don't care.
Also, I really want to see that Zelda game where your slashes are mimicked by Link. TP does the generic movement slash, and that's about it. I want to STAB PARRY DODGE DUCK DIP DIVE AND DODGE and see Link do the same. But I guess that means I'll have to roll around the place.
You'll have to wait for the next real Zelda for that, TP is just a crusty GameCube game that was finished a year ago that Nintendo has slapped sparkling innovation controls into in a lame attempt to pass this off as a "brand new launch game" that only blind fanboys are falling for. Too bad for Nintendo when a normal person plays the game and finds out that the Wii doesn't actually function more than the Wario Ware Twisted game cartridge they'll dismiss the Wii and get a PS3 with superior motion sensing controls AND graphics.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 20, 2006, 05:26:41 PM
Post by: Neodymium on September 20, 2006, 05:40:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: Shift Key
So there's a mirror mode? Wow, let the rampant fanboys run with this one because I don't care.
Also, I really want to see that Zelda game where your slashes are mimicked by Link. TP does the generic movement slash, and that's about it. I want to STAB PARRY DODGE DUCK DIP DIVE AND DODGE and see Link do the same. But I guess that means I'll have to roll around the place.
You'll have to wait for the next real Zelda for that, TP is just a crusty GameCube game that was finished a year ago that Nintendo has slapped sparkling innovation controls into in a lame attempt to pass this off as a "brand new launch game" that only blind fanboys are falling for. Too bad for Nintendo when a normal person plays the game and finds out that the Wii doesn't actually function more than the Wario Ware Twisted game cartridge they'll dismiss the Wii and get a PS3 with superior motion sensing controls AND graphics.
Don't forget that it's a supercomputer and plays the future of movies, unlike KIDtendo's Wii which plays nothing but silly pictures and games.
Pictures.. hah.. those have been around for over 150 years.. and don't get me started on the weather.. WE'VE HAD WEATHER FOR LIKE 4.5 BILLION YEARS YOU STUPID I LOVE HALO 2S.
Post by: Caliban on September 20, 2006, 05:41:36 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 20, 2006, 05:46:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: NeodymiumQuote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: Shift Key
So there's a mirror mode? Wow, let the rampant fanboys run with this one because I don't care.
Also, I really want to see that Zelda game where your slashes are mimicked by Link. TP does the generic movement slash, and that's about it. I want to STAB PARRY DODGE DUCK DIP DIVE AND DODGE and see Link do the same. But I guess that means I'll have to roll around the place.
You'll have to wait for the next real Zelda for that, TP is just a crusty GameCube game that was finished a year ago that Nintendo has slapped sparkling innovation controls into in a lame attempt to pass this off as a "brand new launch game" that only blind fanboys are falling for. Too bad for Nintendo when a normal person plays the game and finds out that the Wii doesn't actually function more than the Wario Ware Twisted game cartridge they'll dismiss the Wii and get a PS3 with superior motion sensing controls AND graphics.
Don't forget that it's a supercomputer and plays the future of movies, unlike KIDtendo's Wii which plays nothing but silly pictures and games.
Pictures.. hah.. those have been around for over 150 years.. and don't get me started on the weather.. WE'VE HAD WEATHER FOR LIKE 4.5 BILLION YEARS YOU STUPID I LOVE HALO 2S.
Yeah, the fact of the matter is that the Wii is just an overclocked Kirby's Tilt 'n Tumble for GBC.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on September 20, 2006, 05:57:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
Couldn't they have mirrored the GameCube one as well, so that they could be the same? Are there really that many Zelda fans that NEED Link to be left-handed? I'm a huge Zelda fan...am I really going to freak out 'cause Link decided to switch sword hands? NO. Sheesh.
Leaving the GC intact is more proof of which version is the real original, and which one is the afterthought :P , even if Nintendo's actions try to prove otherwise. These wii controls are indeed tacked-in at last minute, they decided to flip the whole game mere months before its release, and some people still think that the remote functionality is going to turn incredible?, it will be acceptable at best, seriously it looks like they aren't even sure of what to do with the remote, its the first time Ive seen Nintendo changing a major gameplay mechanic few months before the launch of a game.
There, I said it
And I really don't understand why is this so important that they had to mirror everything, would right handed people care that much if Link is left handed? not really, so why do it? immersion? what immersion? the sword doesn't even swing the way you swing the remote, thats way more problematic for immersion than which hand Link carries the sword.
Post by: blackfootsteps on September 20, 2006, 06:05:04 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 20, 2006, 06:19:19 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on September 20, 2006, 06:46:07 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 20, 2006, 06:48:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Regardless of how drastic the changes will turn out to be, and which version who considers to be better than which, Nintendo sure has caused quite a ruckus among fans. Seems like it would've been less of a headache if they'd just finished TP off for the 'cube and then started working on a new Zelda game from the ground up for Wii.
I suppose, but then again it isn't that hard to cause a ruckus among fans.
Post by: 18 Days on September 20, 2006, 06:51:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
And I really don't understand why is this so important that they had to mirror everything, would right handed people care that much if Link is left handed? not really, so why do it? immersion? what immersion? the sword doesn't even swing the way you swing the remote, thats way more problematic for immersion than which hand Link carries the sword.
So then. Why do you care? I mean, you'll jsut be able to hold the Wiimote in your left hand right? it wont matter which way you swing!
Post by: Strell on September 20, 2006, 07:22:56 PM
WE'VE HAD WEATHER FOR LIKE 4.5 BILLION YEARS YOU STUPID
That's seriously golden.
Post by: capamerica on September 20, 2006, 07:29:35 PM
Cause of this news I'm never going to buy another Nintendo product. They must be pure evil and don't care what so ever about the fans.
Well that has so changed my mind, time for me to go over to GameStop and move all my reserves over to the PS3. Sony was right all along they are the innovators not Nintendo, Sony cares about us gamers. The PS3 is to cheap, the savior of the Videogame world and the destroyer of Nintendo needs every last cent I have to vanquish the Evil Nintendo off the face of the Video game world.
Man I wish I knew how evil Nintendo was when I was buying my NES and pledged my alliance to Nintendo I could have helped destroy them back with the MasterSystem.
Serious People, Big freaken hope-de-do they flipped Zelda. What is that some original Sin or something. Thou shall not make video game easier for users to play. Doing a video flip is alot easier then having Nintendo go through and redo the Link model so he's right handed. Would you rather Nintendo waste time redoing Link's model or working on the content that is going to make Zelda the AAAA Launch title for the Wii. This isn't going to be some tacked on controller set up like some of you think it will be. I am getting to the point where I wish Nintendo would just can the GameCube version and make this Wii only so it will shut up some of you people. Nintendo has spent a ton of time to make Zelda a great Wii game. I am so happy that they decided to make it a launch title. I'll take Zelda over Mario any day.
Post by: IceCold on September 20, 2006, 07:41:25 PM
QuoteI really was agreeing with your post until that last sentence
I'll take Zelda over Mario any day.
Post by: Kairon on September 20, 2006, 07:43:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
Oh my God we should go over there and kill everyone at Nintendo and burn it to the ground.
Cause of this news I'm never going to buy another Nintendo product. They must be pure evil and don't care what so ever about the fans.
Well that has so changed my mind, time for me to go over to GameStop and move all my reserves over to the PS3. Sony was right all along they are the innovators not Nintendo, Sony cares about us gamers. The PS3 is to cheap, the savior of the Videogame world and the destroyer of Nintendo needs every last cent I have to vanquish the Evil Nintendo off the face of the Video game world.
Man I wish I knew how evil Nintendo was when I was buying my NES and pledged my alliance to Nintendo I could have helped destroy them back with the MasterSystem.
capamerica you traitor, only dumb players would do what you say. sony is like nintendios twin brothwer don't you remember they made the platsationone together huhuhuh? to buy a sony product is just like buying a nintendo product afterall their both japanese or excuse me, nihongo. who do you think makes the drives for nintendo? like panasonic, oh yeah ANOTHER japanese company! what do you want me to say buy american products!
sony and nintendo are both like the old guys who made videogames well guess what videogames are for young people now. japanese games are old and tiku tiku tiku! and only new american games like grand theft auto or prince of persia are the future. youd have to be dumb to buy anything else because both sony and nintendo are overpriced yes you heard me sony you pay 600 dollars too much and the same for nintendo. wii? more like hell no i don't want to buy that.
im trying to be nice because im not mean but i cannot be silent any longer I HAVE TO TELL THE WORLD. this zelda game will be so buggy, buggy like a sony product in fact it would probably be even buggier on the PS3!
everyone who is real gamer should just buy a microsoft xbiox both the regular and 360 because 360 might not play some games so just be safe see how im helping you
and when you see the blinking red lights that means stop! you played too much videogames time to take a rest!~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Strell on September 20, 2006, 08:01:28 PM
Dark Cloud FTW.
Ico + Ico Rehashes FTW.
What else has a sword.
Oblivion FTW.
Let Sega make the next Zelda, Nintendo. 'Cuz you obviously forgot how.
Post by: Smoke39 on September 20, 2006, 08:11:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
I am so happy that they decided to make it a launch title.
If they hadn't made a Wii version, the game would still have been ready to play on your Wii at launch. ;b
Post by: Michael8983 on September 20, 2006, 08:29:11 PM
It won't make any real design difference at all assuming Nintendo takes care of the little things like re-reversing any signes, etc.. to make them readable.
It's not like a mirror mode in a racing game which can be awkward because tracks are primarily designed to be run clockwise. In an adventure game it really makes no difference.
Post by: ThePerm on September 20, 2006, 08:40:12 PM
Post by: Strell on September 20, 2006, 08:40:50 PM
WELL I'M ONLY GOING TO PLAY IT WHILE LOOKING AT THE TV'S REFLECTION ON A MIRROR.
HAH. I HAVE OUTSMARTED YOU ONCE AGAIN.
Post by: wandering on September 20, 2006, 08:42:39 PM
Quote
Ico Rehashes FTW.
Don't diss Shadow of the Colossus.
As for the flipping, while I prefer to read my manga from right to left, I'll still probably get the Wii version when it comes out. But this pretty much ensures that I'll need to also buy the Cube version at some point. Which I suppose was their whole evil plan.
Post by: Michael8983 on September 20, 2006, 08:52:03 PM
I mean the Wii disc should be big enough to hold both incarnations of Twilight Princess so you can choose to hold the Wii-mote with either your left or right hand.
Hopefully this will be common in Wii games, simply fliping the axis to accomodate for those freaky mutunt left handed "people". j/k
Post by: Smoke39 on September 20, 2006, 08:56:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
OH YEA NINTENDO?
WELL I'M ONLY GOING TO PLAY IT WHILE LOOKING AT THE TV'S REFLECTION ON A MIRROR.
HAH. I HAVE OUTSMARTED YOU ONCE AGAIN.
I like that idea. *steals*
Post by: King of Twitch on September 20, 2006, 08:59:31 PM
Post by: wandering on September 20, 2006, 09:17:38 PM
Fastforward to ign review: "While you can finish the game in 30 hours if you rush through it, going after all the side-quests and seeing all there is to see could take you upwards of 60-70 hours, and maybe even longer."
Post by: Mario on September 20, 2006, 09:34:35 PM
It's not just this. Every single week there is a huge blow to Zelda TP, and I don't think it's over yet. Sure you can say "it's not a big deal" to one thing at a time, but when combined this game which was once destined to be the best game of all time now is going to be mediocre at best.
Post by: wandering on September 20, 2006, 09:48:09 PM
-Mark Twain
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 20, 2006, 10:05:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
I'm glad people are seeing the light.
It's not just this. Every single week there is a huge blow to Zelda TP, and I don't think it's over yet. Sure you can say "it's not a big deal" to one thing at a time, but when combined this game which was once destined to be the best game of all time now is going to be mediocre at best.
The funny thing is people still don't know crap about what the final product will be like, what puzzles there will be there, what other ways the Wiimote is used, etc etc. That is why I think it is childish to condemn the game before even playing the final version, if you don't like it then, well maybe I'll listen but until then stop whining over the stupidest things.
Let's see what has been whined about:
Port over to Wii
Sword fighting is now gesture based
Mirrored visuals
OH NOOOO this game is so going to suck those are such devastating features. Let's forget interactive fishing, progressive scan vsuals, realistic bow aiming, Wii based puzzles (there will be some) and probaly more.
Post by: Mario on September 20, 2006, 10:18:43 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 20, 2006, 10:19:58 PM
.
Post by: Michael8983 on September 20, 2006, 10:40:50 PM
I don't see that.
Sure the E3 build got some slight criticism for not playing as well as people hoped but the new build seems to have rectified that.
People are just over-reacting to the mirror thing too. It makes no real difference in presentation and makes the controls much more intuitive.
For all we know it could be optional in the Wii version.
I don't see what other blows to the game you're referring to. Other than maybe the delay but Oot was delayed a year too and it still turned out to the best game of all time.
Post by: King of Twitch on September 20, 2006, 10:46:34 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 20, 2006, 10:57:19 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on September 20, 2006, 10:59:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Don't forget about Navi hovering around being annoying
That's still in there?
Post by: JonLeung on September 21, 2006, 05:01:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
The only thing left is for them to admit it will be closer to 50 hours than 100 hours long, and they will have succeeded in blowing WW-level outrage out of the water, no pun intended.
Though it may depend on the inclusion of sidequests, subquests, getting lost, getting stuck, etc., I've never taken developers' own game time estimates seriously. I've heard of games taking approximately 50 hours before and I can finish them 100% in like half the time. Mind you, they're not always way off, but the longer they claim it is the less likely it'll actually be.
If someone cared to, I'd bet I can finish this 100+ hour Zelda in 50 hours or less.
Post by: Ceric on September 21, 2006, 05:15:30 AM
So could someone link that actual comparison for me so I can see it again?
Post by: JonLeung on September 21, 2006, 05:18:52 AM
Post by: RickPowers on September 21, 2006, 05:21:55 AM
Second, I don't understand why so many of you (by you, I mean "nerds on the internet") are talking about being outraged. You haven't played the game yet, so I don't see how it should matter to anyone.
Hold on ... *reads forum tagline again* ... never mind, carry on.
Post by: Ceric on September 21, 2006, 05:31:53 AM
There are lots of factor to be considered. Since they made just that slight change to the mini-map I think that there is more to this then meets the eye. Mirroring just for mirroring sake would be silly. No there has to be something else at play here then just Links handedness.
Edit: Kairon and Capamerica: Iwata is not pleased with you.
Post by: JonLeung on September 21, 2006, 06:19:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
First, I don't really understand how it would be easier to simply flip the entire game as opposed to only flipping the character models. I suppose that for the same reasons I mentioned before about not having a left-handed option ... it minimizes the testing and QA needed.
It would depend on what interactions Link has with the world around him, and how asymmetrical those things he interacts with, or his own actions, would be. Like if he needs his sword hand or shield hand on a particular side.
A crude example: say there's a steam vent sticking diagonally out of a wall. Link times his jump off a nearby ledge so that the steam hits his shield and propels him where he needs to go. If Link was mirrored but the world wasn't, then he wouldn't be able to use his shield against the steam. If both are mirrored then it's not a problem. (Of course, they could redesign the stages...you'd think they could've with all the time they've spent with the game...)
Maybe not a good example but something similar like that could "explain" why the whole world would be mirrored if Link is, even if just to match the handedness of the majority. It still doesn't explain to me why they don't do the same for the GameCube version and just create some consistency between the games - especially since it's already been established that this is a different Link. I don't remember anything saying that everyone in the bloodline named Link HAS to be a lefty (and even if so, it could be easily retconned).
Post by: couchmonkey on September 21, 2006, 06:23:19 AM
My concern is with the length...I don't WANT 100 hours. At some point the game just gets monotonous, no matter how good it is...and as pathetic as my life is, I do still have other things to do. Most of all, I'm afraid quarter of those hours will be wasted on travel.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 21, 2006, 06:24:24 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on September 21, 2006, 06:31:50 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 21, 2006, 06:39:04 AM
Nintendo simple flipped the image to make the game alittle easier to mentally understand as a Right Handed player.
Sometimes people really take things too seriously, and make issues out of nothing. Link being Right handed is nothing. The World being flipped is nothing. The game orginally being designed for the Cube and now moved to Wii with enhanced controlls is nothing.
All you need to know is that the game is Zelda. Play it and enjoy it...and if you decide you really hate the controls of the game, then buy the Gamecube version.
Post by: Athrun Zala on September 21, 2006, 07:09:56 AM
NINTENDO IS DOOOOMED
Post by: Ceric on September 21, 2006, 07:46:22 AM
Quote
PGCer: Bill Aurion
Thread: Mother 3 Thread
Over any other matter, no, but this is MOTHER! THE WORLD TURNS UPSIDE DOWN WHEN YOU TEASE ABOUT THIS! SERIOUS BUSINESS!
Bill made good on his promise and a world was flipped. Though he must have been laying down when he did it.
Post by: IceCold on September 21, 2006, 08:30:43 AM
QuoteExactly, Spak. I'm still trying to figure out why everyone thinks this is such a big deal.. how does it change the experience in any way? Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't.
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Seriously, how is this a big deal? With each game we get a completely new Hyrule landscape...it isn't like they are changing the locations of an actual real city or something.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 21, 2006, 08:36:09 AM
So Nintendo came up with something and demoed it at E3. And it wasn't too popular with those that played it. So Nintendo then changed the control scheme to a gesture based system. That brought up the issue of right handed players swinging their right hand for a left handed character. So they reversed the whole game. All these changed have happened within the same year the game is due to come out.
The whole project has been "well let's see if THIS works". I can't imagine such a trial-and-error way of making a game resulting in a classic. Nintendo clearly has never been sure of exactly what they want to do with the Wii version. If they did they wouldn't be changing things so much.
Makes me wonder how much is done on the Cube version. Is it done? If it's so simple to reverse everything I would assume that everything is done to reverse.
Post by: JonLeung on September 21, 2006, 09:04:08 AM
If Twilight Princess is fun enough on its own, and playable with its controls (this is Nintendo we're talking about, and this is Zelda, they're not going to screw it up) I'm not going to complain about mirroring, or how else the controls were, or whatever.
It's like how Nintendo should've dumped Wind Waker on us without the SpaceWorld 2000 demo.
From what we know, we know that Twilight Princess was ported with controls added, but unless this "patchwork" comes up as actually noticeable shoddiness in the final product, I think we're being pessimistic here. I actually enjoyed Star Fox Adventures (bite me) and Eternal Darkness despite their N64 pre-incarnations. Twilight Princess is different because the previous-gen version will also be available, making comparisons possible, but it comes out something like 11 days later. Guess what? By then I'd have already finished the Wii version and won't care to compare if I ever even did.
Post by: vudu on September 21, 2006, 09:37:29 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on September 21, 2006, 10:08:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
So Nintendo came up with something and demoed it at E3. And it wasn't too popular with those that played it.
Actually, on PGC we've got Pale claiming he was happy with it at E3, and he considers the latest version better than GameCube, with Bloodworth chiming in that he was also happy with the E3 version.
Edit: watch out for Vudu's lefty extermination squads!
Post by: mantidor on September 21, 2006, 10:33:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: 18 DaysQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
And I really don't understand why is this so important that they had to mirror everything, would right handed people care that much if Link is left handed? not really, so why do it? immersion? what immersion? the sword doesn't even swing the way you swing the remote, thats way more problematic for immersion than which hand Link carries the sword.
So then. Why do you care? I mean, you'll jsut be able to hold the Wiimote in your left hand right? it wont matter which way you swing!
because of this.
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Have any of you thought that perhaps later on in the game the hand you use will be much more important? Most likely not, since so many seem to rip on the game when the vast majority haven't even put their hands on a version of it and those who have were only introduced to it via a demo.
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
MJR I figured they were but you never can quite be too sure! Anyway not to get off topic, I doubt Nintendo changed hands and mirrored everything for the simplified gesture based sword fighting, there must be more things within the game that made this change necessary.
I just reread the thread and no one thinks this mirroring is a big deal by itself, is pretty much harmless, and thats what should worry any left-handed person, if its of such little importance, why do it in the first place? the concern here is what VGrevolution is saying, that theres is something in the game that makes necessary the flipping, and if such thing exist a left handed gamer is pretty much screwed if theres no option to flip the game back.
My concern is more solidarity with my fellow southpaws that interest in how the wii version will turn out, because I was never interested in it, and with these recent news, Im even less interested.
Post by: Michael8983 on September 21, 2006, 10:35:40 AM
The screenshot comparison means nothing to me. We've only seen a TINY portion of the game afterall and it's still in progress.
Miyamoto's supposed confirmation is suspect too. He could have very well been referring to the the Link character model or the gameplay engine being mirrored and not the actual in-game world.
Post by: AnyoneEB on September 21, 2006, 11:05:09 AM
Post by: TrueNerd on September 21, 2006, 11:23:19 AM
I can't wait to play LoZ: Double Dash!! on my Wii.
Seriously, this just seems... crazy. I read this somewhere else, and perhaps it was mentioned in this thread as well, but this game is going to hit strategy guide writers everywhere for massive damage.
Post by: Strell on September 21, 2006, 11:24:08 AM
I'm not even going to hold the damn thing in my hands anyway.
It's Wangmote FTW. And that is direction agnostic, bitchez.
Post by: IceCold on September 21, 2006, 01:39:04 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 21, 2006, 01:51:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
What the hell is wrong with you people.
I'm not even going to hold the damn thing in my hands anyway.
It's Wangmote FTW. And that is direction agnostic, bitchez.
The legal ownership of "Wangmote" is still a matter of contention.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: RickPowers on September 21, 2006, 01:51:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The whole project has been "well let's see if THIS works". I can't imagine such a trial-and-error way of making a game resulting in a classic. Nintendo clearly has never been sure of exactly what they want to do with the Wii version. If they did they wouldn't be changing things so much.
You aren't really familiar with Miyamoto's work, are you?
The entire game design ethic at Nintendo is built around trial and error. Every game starts as a tiny concept that they build on. Most of their games get this same treatment until the game is finished. Your only argument seems to be that the GameCube version isn't having the same refinements made to it. I'd argue that it probably is, you just aren't hearing about them since all the focus is on Wii.
Post by: Kairon on September 21, 2006, 01:52:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
The entire game design ethic at Nintendo is built around trial and error. Every game starts as a tiny concept that they build on. Most of their games get this same treatment until the game is finished.
Quoted for awesome truth.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on September 21, 2006, 02:01:35 PM
I'm quite familiar with Miyamoto's work, just not the details of how he gets there. Technically this isn't a tiny concept that they build on. This is a Cube game shifted to another platform partway through development. It's not like a concept being explored. It's trying to get a Cube game to use a control scheme it wasn't originally intended for. If that's how Nintendo typically makes games though I guess there is less reason to be worried.
Still I can't think of Nintendo classic showing off one control scheme in May and then having a different one by the time it was released in November of the same year. There actually really isn't anything to compare to since a situation like this hasn't happened before. The difference between controllers has never been so big before.
Post by: ShyGuy on September 21, 2006, 02:25:30 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 21, 2006, 02:49:09 PM
Quote
I've been a diehard Zelda fan ever since the first game came out and I can honestly tell you, I couldn't give a rat's ass. Really. And just to make sure I haven't gone mad, I asked Zelda nut Peer Schneider -- a frothing fan of the franchise -- how he felt about these changes; like me, he doesn't much care.
...
What shouldn't you care about? Well, how about whether or not the doorways in the game world slide left or right? (Unless you're writing both the GCN and Wii strategy guides for the game, in which case, good luck.)
...
The game isn't out yet. You haven't even experienced it. You have no context. So try not to worry about trivial modifications.
He also has no reason to dislike the new controls... but THAT is an issue for another thread.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on September 21, 2006, 05:05:47 PM
Would anyone have complained if they just left it how it was and Link was left handed? As a right handed person I would not have minded. I wont even feel like i'm controlling Link anymore, just some right handed imposter. Immersion factor has taken a huge dive and Nintendo is treating this like some kind of shareware PC game being ported to a mobile phone.
It wouldn't suprise me if the Wii version had "exclusive Wiimote puzzles" since they haven't done enough to screw buyers of the GC version yet.
Post by: Artimus on September 21, 2006, 05:06:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Matt thinks it's no big deal:Quote
I've been a diehard Zelda fan ever since the first game came out and I can honestly tell you, I couldn't give a rat's ass. Really. And just to make sure I haven't gone mad, I asked Zelda nut Peer Schneider -- a frothing fan of the franchise -- how he felt about these changes; like me, he doesn't much care.
...
What shouldn't you care about? Well, how about whether or not the doorways in the game world slide left or right? (Unless you're writing both the GCN and Wii strategy guides for the game, in which case, good luck.)
...
The game isn't out yet. You haven't even experienced it. You have no context. So try not to worry about trivial modifications.
He also has no reason to dislike the new controls... but THAT is an issue for another thread.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
You left out the most important line:
"But be aware, people who have been playing Twilight Princess longer than any of us call the tried-and-true button-based sword swiping function of old games "clunky" compared to using gestures with the Wii-mote."
Post by: IceCold on September 21, 2006, 05:18:29 PM
QuoteI've never heard someone refer to desktop icons as "epic"
Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.
Post by: Artimus on September 21, 2006, 06:11:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.
Actually, that'd be called a Mac.
Post by: mantidor on September 21, 2006, 06:39:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
It wouldn't suprise me if the Wii version had "exclusive Wiimote puzzles" since they haven't done enough to screw buyers of the GC version yet.
And later these very same remote puzzles will be included in the real Zelda game, which will dismiss any gimm!cky remote ideas except some very simple mechanic, since Nintendo realized long ago some games just don't need this tacked-in controls Mario 64 DS and new super mario bros all over again LOL
ok, seriously, since when did we start to listen to Matt's opinion anyway?
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
You left out the most important line:
"But be aware, people who have been playing Twilight Princess longer than any of us call the tried-and-true button-based sword swiping function of old games "clunky" compared to using gestures with the Wii-mote."
well, duh! the people who have been playing the game are the devs themselves, they aren't going to say the swinging with the remote is not better than the buttons, even if thats true :P.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 21, 2006, 08:06:51 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 21, 2006, 10:05:23 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 21, 2006, 10:49:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
oh please, you are only listening to Matt because he's agreeing with your opinion, this is the same guy that cried because lack of HD, and everyone here didn't mind at all flaming him to death.
Actually I never had a problem with Matt, and I do listen to his opinion whether I agree with it or not. Unlike some individuals I actually respect it because I feel he usually thinks it through (that does not automatically mean a person is right, but it does make me take them a bit more seriously). On the flip side I tend to disregard the opinion of people who hated TP for Wii the day it was announced it was being ported without knowing jack about it (and really still don't besides the small bits of information that were revealed). Anyway I was more interested in the individuals he talked about that have played it alot (I doubt it was only the developers, probaly the testers as well who need to be objective and fair).
Personally I don't have much of an opinion on Zelda TP either way (well I am more on the positive side of things but still leave open the possibility it may turn out poorly) since I haven't played it, but I am going to give Miyamoto the benefit of the doubt (which people like Ian and Mantidor obviously are not), I think he deserves that much, and feel this whining is stupid along with being a tad bit childish. Once it comes out and if there are complaints I'll listen, but when it comes to individuals who haven't even played the game complaining (concern is fine but it is when you have already made up your mind it sucks is where the problem lies) and closing their minds to it, I have no choice but to find that pathetic along with being laughable.
Post by: Kairon on September 21, 2006, 11:28:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
oh please, you are only listening to Matt because he's agreeing with your opinion, this is the same guy that cried because lack of HD, and everyone here didn't mind at all flaming him to death.
Wait a second... if we're not upset... and Matt, our mortal enemy, isn't too concerned... who's left?
We'd be listening to him even if he disagreed, it's just that in that case we'd have to comment on any points he brought up. Since he brought up nothing concerning, it's not our job to discuss his opinions, its the job of those who see problems in them.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: 18 Days on September 21, 2006, 11:34:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.
Actually, that'd be called a Mac.
Which is of course an improvement.
Post by: Kairon on September 21, 2006, 11:36:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: 18 DaysQuote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.
Actually, that'd be called a Mac.
Which is of course an improvement.
An epic one.
AAAAANNNDD we're right back where we started.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 22, 2006, 12:44:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
oh please, you are only listening to Matt because he's agreeing with your opinion, this is the same guy that cried because lack of HD, and everyone here didn't mind at all flaming him to death.
Wait a second... if we're not upset... and Matt, our mortal enemy, isn't too concerned... who's left?
We'd be listening to him even if he disagreed, it's just that in that case we'd have to comment on any points he brought up. Since he brought up nothing concerning, it's not our job to discuss his opinions, its the job of those who see problems in them.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Still not quite sure why everyone hates Matt, like I said I don't agree with everything he says, but like Ian, he seems to think his opinion through and makes decent points. I'm definately not against being concerned or even having doubts about TPs controls, but it is when you have pretty much made up your mind it will detract from the game. With new means of controls you have to keep an open mind even if you have doubts, because at one time even the analog stick was doubted. Yeah TP wasn't made from the ground up for Wii, but it has had enough time in development to give the new controls potential (along with some new puzzles to take advantage of it that may not be found in the GC version).
In the way of illustrating why I think you should have an open mind, I will give my thoughts on some DS games (before and after they came out). The first one was Mario 64DS, I wasn't too thrilled with tad pad controls, but I was willing to give it a fair chance. When it was all said and done I ended up not liking it but at least I tried to keep an open mind until I played it with the touch screen (actually I vastly preferred the clunky pad controls, and did end up getting all the stars). On the flip side I had doubts about the touch pad controls from MPH, and guess what? I felt they really benefited the game after playing it. With Star Fox DS I thought the touch pad controls had potential, but now do not care much for them (that game could have benefited from an analog stick).
Post by: Kairon on September 22, 2006, 09:41:03 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: RickPowers on September 22, 2006, 10:03:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Still not quite sure why everyone hates Matt ...
Let's just say that you only have to see a guy show up to a function in a professional capacity, shall we say ... lacking capacity ... to lose any and all respect for him you might have had.
Peer, Fran, Craig ... they're all great guys. Hopefully marriage has changed Matt a bit, because I'm sure he was a nice guy, but he had serious lapses of judgement at times.
Post by: Kairon on September 22, 2006, 10:16:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowersQuote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Still not quite sure why everyone hates Matt ...
Let's just say that you only have to see a guy show up to a function in a professional capacity, shall we say ... lacking capacity ... to lose any and all respect for him you might have had.
Peer, Fran, Craig ... they're all great guys. Hopefully marriage has changed Matt a bit, because I'm sure he was a nice guy, but he had serious lapses of judgement at times.
Yeah. Often times I find Matt quite rational and sensible and I respect his opinion and want to listen to his criticism (even if he doesn't drink the kool-aid). But there are times when all of a sudden he does something that... eh... prevents me from ever trusting him fully.
Oh well, maybe he's just trying to start a personality cult?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on September 22, 2006, 11:23:18 AM
