There is a high level of frustration among Zelda fans right now, which is itself a feat that you should note. We are, after all, a very resilient bunch. We have put up with Twilight Princess' repeated delays and stylistic changes while patiently ignoring the dearth of official details and the game's recent lackluster E3 appearance. At times, it seems like you are throwing roadblocks in the way of us devoted Zelda players, and the latest and most bitter of these was the announcement that both a GameCube and Wii version of Twilight Princess would be released simultaneously. Now, I understand that you have tremendous faith in Wii and want Zelda to prove the new console's worth; at the same time you have clung to the release of a GameCube version as a sign of goodwill to those who purchased the system for Zelda alone. This is, I suppose, fine by me. Really, for the Nintendo faithful it should be a no-brainer: buy a Wii, get Zelda. From our mentality, the Wii version of Zelda is preferred since Wii is your new system and we're getting it anyway. Unfortunately, the problem facing Zelda fans now is that you have decided not to implement GameCube controls for Twilight Princess on Wii, confusing gamers as to which version truly is the next Zelda game.
I prefer things to be definitive. When I purchase something, I do not want to be forced to purchase an addition for it to be complete, or have to upgrade in the future. You as a company, Nintendo, have avoided the Deluxe-Redux-Substance path and your customers are happier for it. When I purchased The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker I was confident, based on your track record, that there was not going to be a Special Edition waiting eight months down the road, which is something that I as a movie collector wish I could know every time I bought a DVD. The movie market is even more vicious than the game industry when it comes to “double-dipping." Very soon I may have to buy yet another DVD of Dracula, something I'm getting tired of doing. But there is something that's even worse for a movie collector than double-dipping: sometimes there are two versions of the same movie released on DVD around the same time but with different special features. This is a rare occurrence and usually only happens when more than one company has the rights to release a movie on DVD – it is almost never the fault of a malicious studio. Please hear me: I would never call you malicious, Nintendo. But as improper as this decision would be in the movie world, it does feel as though you have made this decision with Zelda on Wii.
So far the only credible excuse thrown around for the lack of GameCube control on the Wii version of Zelda is that the Wii hardware simply doesn't allow it. The rumor is that when a GameCube disc is in the system the GameCube controller ports work, but when a Wii disc is inside the system the GameCube ports turn off. This theory, I assume propagated by fanboys, has been debunked by your very own official magazine, as reported by the blog Nintendo Wii Fanboy in a news post about future Wii title Rampage: Total Destruction. According to the Fanboy, Nintendo Power has stated that Rampage will allow the player to choose between Wii control and GameCube control. This is all without mentioning that Masahiro Sakurai, your Smash Bros. main man, advised us at E3 not to throw away our GameCube controllers when we get Super Smash Bros. Brawl on Wii. With both of these details considered, it seems to me that you don't have any excuses left: you have gone out of your way to emphasize that the two versions of Twilight Princess are identical in gameplay and you are confident enough in the two control schemes that you are releasing the game with both on the same day. If the statement in Nintendo Power is to be trusted, then there are no technical limitations preventing GameCube control that the consumer could fathom. If you're leaving it out due to limited space on the DVD or some complex programming issue, I kindly ask that you say so. Otherwise, we will have to assume that you are leaving GameCube control out deliberately, a choice that is still confusing to all of us.
If Twilight Princess on Wii had GameCube controls it would definitely be considered the preferred version, not to mention sell more. The only people who would buy the GameCube version would be those reticent to purchase a Wii at all. You have made the GameCube version enticing, though, by telling us that it is still the full Zelda experience while retaining that classic mode of control that you innovated way back for Ocarina of Time. This control method is often imitated - it has been the de facto standard for 3-D adventure games ever since Ocarina was released. Some Zelda gamers are wary of the Wii control scheme based on E3 reports and forcing them to choose between the two does not relieve their tensions. One method must be better than the other, but with two versions of the game available how do we decide? By leaving GameCube control out of Twilight Princess you are shifting sales from the Wii version to the GameCube version, perhaps with the hope that some will “double-dip" and purchase both. Of course I believe it is foolish to purchase both since past Zelda games have offered incentive to play the game twice, and as far as we know there is not a way to transfer your saved game from the Wii to the GameCube version. Despite this, I must admit that as a completist I feel compelled to purchase both versions as well, but in the end I will only purchase one at full price on ethical grounds alone.
If you really want to play hardball Nintendo, then go ahead. It is obvious you have faith in the Wii version so much that you don't want players to even have the option to play Zelda the old fashioned way. You want Zelda on Wii to be definitive, as I do. I think it is ironic, though, that in your efforts to prove the Wii version definitive you may be driving people away from it, thinning sales for one of your flagship Wii launch titles. By exalting one control method over another but making both available separately, you ensure that there will not be a definitive version of Twilight Princess at all; we will have two separate and distinct Zelda games that each have their own allure. I myself am torn and disappointed that I have to make this choice.
Your Fan,
Evan Burchfield
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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
The GameCube version. So far we've heard nothing about the graphics being updated for Wii (aside from widescreen), and the Wii exclusive 'puzzles' will more than likely be out of place tacked on junk like WHACK A MOLE.
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Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system?
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Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system?
Well they've already put those Wii controls in, so yes...
Great editorial! I feel the same way and could end up passing on both versions.
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Originally posted by: Pale
Also. The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?
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Originally posted by: Pale
My problem with everyone's argument is the assumption that because Nintendo isn't telling them every little detail about the reason for the decision, that means they are doing it just to money grub. Buying both versions is just silly. There are plenty of other possibilties for the decision.
Also. The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?
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Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
I don't really see a problem with this
First, if the game had remained thus far a GC only game, it would've been moved to Wii anyways....you know why? because they wanted to make TP even BETTER than OoT, which has been clasified as the BEST GAME EVER by basically every person that walks the Earth, and that CAN'T be done in just 2 years (original release date). So the game would've been delayed (it's Nintendo we are talking about....) which in the end would've been unfavorable to Nintendo as the GC is pretty much dead, and the only pleased ones would've been the hardcore fans.
Second, they tried to please everyone by not cancelling the GC one (to keep their promise and such) and releasing a modified version for the Wii to boost sales, get more revenue and a better launch lineup.
Thirdly, Nintendo would be heavily criticized/flamed/whatever if they cancelled one of the 2 SKUs now, and they have to at least have one incentive for the GC version (classic controller and not needing a new console).
And finally, Nintendo is running a BUSINESS here, they WILL TRY to get more profits when they can.....that's just how business works and that can't be changed for now.
Another thing is that I personally believe that they went for 2 SKU in the first place because the GC and Wii data couldn't fit on the same discs (remember that the puzzles and such have to be changed to fit the the new controller)
All in all, I'll get the Wii version, it's just a simple choice you have to make....it's not like your life will be a living hell because of it....
and remember that you DON'T HAVE to BUY BOTH versions, just find a friend who gets the other one, it's not that hard
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Originally posted by: DeadlyD
makes me wonder if n64 players were upset OOT didnt use the same controls as the nes games
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Originally posted by: wandering
I am also worried that there will be no definitive Zelda - but for a different reason. Oh, I'd like both control schemes included in the Wii version, don't get me wrong (and if Evan's or other's complaints helped bring that about, that'd be swell.) But what I worry about is that neither the Wii nor the GameCube version will be ideal. And, if that turns out to be the case, giving me an option between the two versions when I boot up my Zelda Wii disc wouldn't make much of a difference.
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Originally posted by: IceCold
As far as I am concerned, this is a tired, tired argument. I hope it falls asleep from exhaustion soon.. When Wii controls were first rumoured (a hell of a long time ago), I wrote long-winded posts about how I was against them being implemented, as I was worried about the negative effects stemming from the decision. When they were finally confirmed, I was disappointed, but I have gotten over it since. There's nothing we can do, and I'm sick of all the discussion about it. Sure, this won't be the true Zelda built exclusively with the Wii in mind, utilising the controls and the hardware to their fullest extent. But it will still be a damn good game, and the controls will be fine. There were mixed impressions from E3; some glowing, some biting. I have decided to not let any one of them influence me.. Playing a game with a whole new control method, especially one which is so familiar on other controls, can't be easy. This is even truer at E3, where there is so much pressure, and the environment is far from comfortable. I remember when I first used the N64 analogue stick, I hated it. I just couldn't control it well, after years of playing with a D-Pad. This is a similar situation, except even more accentuated.
I am going to wait until the final build of TP gets into the hands of the media. When people actually have time to adapt to the controls under suitable conditions, we'll see what the impressions are then. At this point of time, I would take Miyamoto's word over any single person's experience with the game at E3. I've said this before; if there's anyone who can pull this off, Nintendo can.
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Originally posted by: Pryopizm
When a person ignores that the kernel of the complaint is Nintendo double-dipping without providing a single definitive experience, and, instead, build a straw man argument, it's very easy to make someone appear foolish. Of course, anyone who has bothered to read the article (agree or disagree) will see through it immediately and find out quickly who the foolish one is.
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Originally posted by: Svevan
And finally, to everyone: forgive my drama and constant complaining. It is not my intention to be the staff whiner, but it has been my action and that's not appropriate.
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Originally posted by: Pale
If people are this concerned about enjoying the Wii version with the fancy controls, maybe they should start being concerned over whether they will like the Wii at all, seeing as, in many ways, those things are one and the same.
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If people are this concerned about enjoying the Wii version with the fancy controls, maybe they should start being concerned over whether they will like the Wii at all, seeing as, in many ways, those things are one and the same.
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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
You're not to blame; that's just how you talk.
QuoteWell, as I said in my other post, this is a completely different situation than most impressions. It's a radically different control scheme for a franchise that we have played with traditional controls for a long, long time. Of course it will be hard to adjust to the new interface. That's why we should wait for the final build and for the media to spend more time on it before making a decision.
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
I'm amused by the suggestions that we should just wait until it's out before discussing the merits of either version. What do you think we do at this site, honestly? Nintendo wants the games to be discussed early...that's why they let us play the games before they are finished. Yes, you have to temper many arguments with the fact that the games are not finished and that we have played only a fraction of them, but that doesn't mean the discussion is worthless.
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Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
then how about the NES Classics - full price for a NES game that's about 8K in size. When Nintendo does it, they excel at it.
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Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
But really though, if this frightening new control system is bothering you, why not just purchase the GameCube version and play it on your Wii, which is backwards compatible with GameCube games anyway?
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Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
Maybe not in YOUR country. :-P
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Also, a Zelda game originally engineered for GameCube should not be the make-or-break Wii game, but Nintendo has set it up that way."
I think this a great point. They probably should be promoting Metroid Prime 3 more as the flagship title since it's a major game AND isn't an enhanced Cube game. If I buy a Wii at launch it will be for THAT game, not Zelda.
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Originally posted by: Professional 666
'm not even going to make the assumption that the early GC adopters are "hardcore" Nintendo fans, cuz looking at sales for titles such as Pikmin 1/2, StarFox Assault, and Metroid Prime 2 (heck, RE4), it doesn't seem like there's enough "early adopter fans" available/living/breathing/internetting to care for a severely delayed last-gen game in the presence of an upgraded version on a new system they ALREADY PLANNED to buy (cuz you know, they're so-called early adopter hardtime longcore Nintendo playing Pokemon graduates).
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Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
Maybe not in YOUR country. :-P
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"I can see why they dropped GC controls...why have them in there? Why not force people to use Wii the way it's supposed to be used, to get the whole experience? Don't let them cop out by using GC controls, that accomplishes nothing for Nintendo's mission."
Doesn't that suggest a sign of weakness though? Why would people "cop out" if using the motion controls truly was the better way to play it? If these new controls really are the big deal they're being promoted as then it shouldn't matter. People will pick the new controls because they're supposedly more exciting, more inviting, and more fun. Supposedly people are to be naturally attracted to them. I think not including the old scheme shows a lack of a confidence in the new control scheme, like they have to avoid people making direct comparisons between the old and the new. A really great new control scheme should be so good that direct comparisons should be welcome because the new one is just going to cream the old one.
The thing is the "cop out" is still there, it's just that people have to buy a different version to cop out. I'd argue that's worse because someone who doesn't want to try the new controls won't because they'll buy a version that doesn't offer them. If one version had both control schemes then even the skeptics would probably try the motion control method just because it's there and they're curious. But with this they either have to take the plunge or play it safe.
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However, it's 4:44am on my clock and I'm in the process of waiting to die.
Might as well do something futile as opposed to nothing, it's the essence of humanity.
QuoteHow dare you say that Pikmin 2 paled when compared to it's predecessor?! It was basically a perfect sequel; the essence of the first game was intact, but there were lots more features and some minor flaws from the first game were corrected. Overall, it was just much better.. Metroid Prime 2 was also just as good as the first one, although it didn't, of course, have the same impression and impact as MP, which was the first 3D Metroid game. Technically, though, it was improved over Metroid Prime. And, in regards to Assault, are you talking about Adventures as its original? Because Adventures was terrible; it wasn't even close to a StarFox game. Assault was a better game if you think of what the StarFox franchise is supposed to represent..
Based on my brief time playing them and/or from what I've read, Pikmin 2, Star Fox Assualt and Metroid Prime 2 all pale in comparison to their originals.
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Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
However, it's 4:44am on my clock and I'm in the process of waiting to die.
Might as well do something futile as opposed to nothing, it's the essence of humanity.
Go run around town naked. Right now.
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How dare you say that Pikmin 2 paled when compared to it's predecessor?! It was basically a perfect sequel; the essence of the first game was intact, but there were lots more features and some minor flaws from the first game were corrected.
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And, in regards to Assault, are you talking about Adventures as its original?
QuoteMaybe you should try playing Pikmin 2 some more; I assure you that is not the case..
Which sounds great, until you realize that it isn't just like the original at all....because, as uncomfortably similiar as the rehash is, the magic and soul of the first has almost all gone.
QuoteAh. That explains it - I was confused because Pro was talking about how later Cube games sold worse than the earlier ones, and he referenced Star Fox, so I thought you were talking about Adventures, since you replied to him.. *breathe*
No, talking about 64. (Keep in mind I haven't played Assualt at all.)
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Maybe you should try playing Pikmin 2 some more; I assure you that is not the case..
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Originally posted by: wandering
That's exactly why I think it's a horrible sequel. (Keep in mind I've only played it for a few minutes at a demo kiosk.) My idea of a perfect sequel is Majora's Mask: it takes the fundamental gameplay from the first game and then takes things in an interesting new direction.