Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: JonLeung on July 06, 2006, 09:02:30 AM
Title: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: JonLeung on July 06, 2006, 09:02:30 AM
I remember reading a while back about how Sony could have something in place where each PS3 game disc will "register" with the first PS3 it will be played on, and not be playable on any other PS3 after that.
That would mean no one would be able to borrow or rent PS3 games, and that everyone would have to buy every game they wanted to play (at the possibly exorbitant prices). Unless they WANT gamers to be modding their PS3s, or special rental versions of games would have to produced as well. Or they're so overconfident that they expect everyone to love the PS3 even if they drop totally out of the rental market.
I don't doubt that such a silly idea from Sony is possible (especially at this point), but in the long span of time since I last heard about that, has it been confirmed or denied yet as something that they would actually implement?
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Requiem on July 06, 2006, 09:48:23 AM
I'm not sure either, but that would also mean you can't sell your used games either.
Title: RE:Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 06, 2006, 10:51:57 AM
I can't actually see Sony doing this...unless it was some sort of online registration that would allow you to clear the registration and treat the game like new again. But then all you would have to do was play rented games or borrowed games offline.
I definately understand Sony's desire to prevent renting games. It is probably one of the more devestating aspects of software purchases a system faces, and the used game market is potentially worse. It theortically cuts your sales in half, or more...because people can play a game, and sell it...and others buy a game they would have bought at full price for less.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 06, 2006, 11:00:03 AM
Sony claimed they won't do so but then again they said the same about two versions and organized internet services.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 06, 2006, 11:15:17 AM
PS3 and BRD, when the formats have matured, will be DRM'd to hell.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 06, 2006, 11:48:18 AM
A year ago, I would have said "No friggin' way."
Today, I can't see any reason to argue against the notion.
If Sony feels that people will buy their console because it plays their proprietary format that no one wants for $600, then I can readily see them believing that making games register to the first device they're played on as A-OK in their squirrelly little minds.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: BigJim on July 06, 2006, 12:10:39 PM
Was never confirmed, AFAIK. And any part that may be true could have been blown out of proportion. As is usually the case.
There are some basic uses for this type of security. i.e. Rental stores are supposed to buy specific products priced and made for rental use. If a rental store were to skirt costs by buying over-the-counter games or pirated games rather than games with the special security IDs, then the used and re-used security ID would raise a red flag and enable Sony to crack down on this kind of theft. I couldn't say I'd blame them when they're dealing with a userbase of 100 million (but whether that'll happen or not for ps3 is for another thread.) That's a full industry in itself and there needs to be some kind of reasonable oversight.
Basic trading/borrowing I doubt they'd ever give a crap about... But then I highly doubt they'll lock games to hardware anyway.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: stevey on July 06, 2006, 02:51:51 PM
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Zipolo on July 06, 2006, 03:01:45 PM
I think it'd be a horrible idea for a game to be registered to only one PS3. Especially considering the average lifetime of previous playstations. I've known a lot of them to break within a year or two of buying it. Would one have to re-buy their entire game collection?
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 06, 2006, 06:07:06 PM
Maybe it won't be some much attached to the system as the system would actually be attached to an account. So maybe you'll basically be logging in to the network to access your account that has a DRM unlock for all your BRD based content (games, movies, etc etc.). This loggin access info could be stored on the HDD and transfered to other PS3's via Mem stick/card along with the piece of software in question.
....even doing it like that seems like an unneccessary hassle to prevent people from letting people borrow/rent games or re-sell them. p.s. This wouldn't even work for selling used games unless you could clear the registration like mentioned somewhere up above this post. and if you could just clear the registration the DRM system just becomes pointless anyway, unless it can only be registered x amount of times.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Requiem on July 06, 2006, 06:56:53 PM
That would require the internet (DSL/CABLE), which would suck balls.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 06, 2006, 07:02:29 PM
Well Sony assumes that if you work hard enough to afford a PS3 then you make enough money to have a respectable(no 56k) internet connection.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 06, 2006, 07:52:33 PM
The idea was to have a read-once section on the disc that contains the decryption key and have the PS3 that reads it first store it in memory. That wouldn't require online at all.
OTOH, a patent on that was what got the whole rumor started and that patent is ancient.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: couchmonkey on July 07, 2006, 05:51:04 AM
I doubt Sony will go this way, or if it does, I think it will change its mind later.
The whole "high price for blu-ray" thing theoretically makes business sense because the payoff is that Sony gets Blu-ray in people's homes. It's a big gamble, but if it works, it has huge benefits for Sony. With this idea, I don't think the payoff is that big. Sony would increase profits, but it doesn't have any major strategic value, and it only increases profits if they don't tick off too many customers. And that's the big problem: the public reaction to this idea is clearly very negative. The reaction to the PS3 hardware price is negative too, but there are those that don't care, and I'm sure there are even some who look forward to getting a "cheap" Blu-ray player.
Title: RE:Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 07, 2006, 07:42:20 AM
Have there been any manufacturing costs applied to each bluray disk produced yet?
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: capamerica on July 07, 2006, 08:57:09 AM
Sony has made it clear that they hate the used game market. So I wouldn't count it out. But after the fiasco with their Rootkits Sony would be stupid to try and do something like this... Then again we are talking about Sony and we all said it would be stupid for them to release a console that was priced over $400.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: SixthAngel on July 07, 2006, 02:16:14 PM
I also remember hearing another rumor that said Sony wasn't going to let used games be sold anymore. When a person bought a game they would buy the right to play it but not actually own the software on the disc effectively eliminating resells.
I remember Sony denying the first claim but not this one. Even though they denied it I can still see it happening though. Sony has a practice of lieing for as long as they can get away with it.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 07, 2006, 02:30:56 PM
Well hey, MS recently denied that their latest Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) version was a form of spyware. Then they took back their statement and reworked WGA to quiet people down.
So I wouldn't put these sorts of things past Sony, especially with the DRM'd nature of the HD mentality.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Ian Sane on July 07, 2006, 02:44:02 PM
Ignoring the huge consumer backlash that would occur from eliminating rentals and used sales, Sony can't do it because there are major retail companies involved. Sony doesn't give a sh!t if you or I are pissed off. But what about Blockbuster or EB? Yeah, now things are a little more hairy. If Blockbuster can't rent Playstation games then they can refuse to sell Playstation games as well as Sony DVDs. EB also could just not sell Playstation products anymore. It wouldn't work out well for Sony if major chains were refusing to carry their product. EB isn't quite as big of a deal but Blockbuster certainly is.
Title: RE:Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: bustin98 on July 07, 2006, 07:23:54 PM
Windows XP requires registration. Halflife 2 requires registration. Its not much for Sony to make the next leap, especially if they call the PS3 a computer. Then the games would be equivilant to PC games.
I would hazard a guess though that Sony would not want to be on Gamestop's bad side, since they are the number one video game outlet this side of Walmart. And even BestBuy is trying out the used game and movie market. To lose those retail outlets would be suicide in the US.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 07, 2006, 10:28:04 PM
Sony has made it clear that they hate the used game market. So I wouldn't count it out.
So has every japanese company, including Nintendo. The sentiment is spreading to western companies as well and even the code grunts feel they deserve a cut from used game sales (yeah, would be a great world if you could sell something once and keep profiting from it)
I also remember hearing another rumor that said Sony wasn't going to let used games be sold anymore. When a person bought a game they would buy the right to play it but not actually own the software on the disc effectively eliminating resells.
It's called an End User License Agreement, is standard operating practice on computers and was found legally binding by some insane judges (contract entered under pressure, anyone?).
Windows XP requires registration. Halflife 2 requires registration. Its not much for Sony to make the next leap, especially if they call the PS3 a computer. Then the games would be equivilant to PC games.
The difference is that you can give a Windows standalone license to someone else, have him use it instead and MS won't complain at all. Same for Earth 2160, which uses the same scheme (probably only as long as you avoid the Steam version). Only Steam requires you to pay a 10$ "handling fee" in order to be able to resell your games.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The games industry has noone to blame for these large scale used game sales but itself. By making margins on games so small that retailers can barely break even on them (and allowing huge chains to undercut the smaller ones to kill their income source) they forced retailers to sell used or go bust. Same reason you're getting those stupid extended warranties, subscriptions and crappy bundles thrown at you. What you reap is what you sow.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Ceric on July 08, 2006, 08:24:27 AM
But that's the key. "...this side of Walmart." Gamestop doesn't have the penetration of Walmart. Games whole release schedules are built around Walmart in some cases. One game, I can't remember the name, had a Beta version released at Walmart to make the Walmart software cut for the month. Everywhere else got the "complete" version but later. It would hurt Gamestop more to stop stocking Sony games then it would hurt Sony for them to stop Stocking Sony Games. Why? They still have Walmart, Sears Holding, Target, and all the other retailers that just sale games and don't bother with the used stuff. Don't kid yourself into thinking that Videogame shops are more then just niche stores. There just like Hobby shops and Comic Book Stores. They just enjoy a broader audience and more limited selection making it viable for big retailers to cash in.
That being said. I know here in the States if anything involving a computer that snaps at hardware based registration people are on it with a passion. From what I can tell Europe is the same way.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 08, 2006, 10:41:28 AM
The difference is that Gamestop clerks try to convince the buyer to buy a specific console or game and they accept bribes. In a Walmart noone would try to tell the parents that while their kids said they wanted a Wii, they'll be much happier with a PS3.
Also remember that many people calculate the used market into their buying decisions. The cost of a game is lower when you subtract the money you'll get back when you sell it off after playing it. These people might decide that 10$ price hike (optimistic) + missing out on 15$ trade-in is almost a doubling of the price (35$->60$). There's of course also the bargain bin hunters that like used games, they might decide another console fits their needs better.
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: SixthAngel on July 08, 2006, 07:28:58 PM
I would say there is a big difference between these shops and a hobby shop/comic shop. Comic shops are extremely rare and hard to find, gamestops are EVERYWHERE. I have been to malls that have one inside and another across the street. People go to these stores for the sole purpose of buying games and if they don't have PS3 they will get something else. These niche stores certainly get a lot of business if there are so many, even if it is less then Walmart. Honestly, who actually does more business then Walmart?
Title: RE:Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: Athrun Zala on July 09, 2006, 09:45:58 PM
Quote Originally posted by: KDR_11k Sony has made it clear that they hate the used game market. So I wouldn't count it out.
So has every japanese company, including Nintendo. The sentiment is spreading to western companies as well and even the code grunts feel they deserve a cut from used game sales (yeah, would be a great world if you could sell something once and keep profiting from it)
meh, isn't that what the music industry is trying to do?
Title: RE: Was it ever confirmed that PS3 games won't be rentable/borrowable?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 10, 2006, 04:43:39 AM
That's what EVERY IP-based industry is trying to do.
