Post by: rossi46 on July 01, 2006, 12:10:19 PM
For the last few years, I've tried to redress that balance by buying all the machines and consoles I refused to have due to my own blinkered, narrow-minded stupidity. Now, 18 machines and 3000-odd games later I reckon I've satisfied my lust for past games and come to the conclusion that brand-loyalty is for losers and zealots. Surely it's the games that are important, not the machine?
Paul
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2006, 12:17:53 PM
Post by: rossi46 on July 01, 2006, 01:27:56 PM
Paul
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2006, 01:42:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: rossi46
One of my elderly relatives put it in perpsective for me one time. He came home and asked me if I'd be buying the game that he saw advertised on tv at his place of work and I said 'not a chance'. The game in question was Ridge-Racer on PS1 and after trying for a half hour to explain to him that, although it looked good and played well in the arcade, I wouldn't be buying it because I refused to have a PS1. My uncle thought this was ludicrous and asked me if I would do the same if a film I was dying to see would only play on a certain brand of dvd-player - would I just do without seeing the film? Would I hell..
Paul
I would if that DVD player was a Bluray, hehe
.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 01, 2006, 01:54:00 PM
Not all of us can afford to buy multiple systems and all the games we want for them, but we might be able to buy one system with all the games we want for it. Its just like this new HD format war, do I buy a HD-DVD and only be able to watch certain movies in HD or do I spend more and get a Blu-ray player and be able to watch a more but different titles in HD? I definately don't want to spend upwards of $1000 to buy both just so that I can watch all the movies in HD, I would just be better off with a decent DVD player with an upscaler for now, atleast until I can be assured that any movie I want to buy will be able to be played on the player that I have(HD-DVD/Blu-ray hybrid).
For now its too expensive to own all competeing systems($1200 for next-gen) and all the games that you want(priced from $20-$100?). So for now I continue to but my gaming $$$ behind Nintendo while other friends of mine may support MS or Sony(& Nintendo too), so that when we come together we can get the best of all worlds.
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2006, 02:10:14 PM
But I don't regret the passion, nor the sentiment behind those days. I regret the actions I carried out in those days, but I can easily make the distinction between my own foolish actions, and the things I believed I was protecting by those actions. Otherwise, how could religion be justified at all? I believe in laying the blame for fanboyism and brand loyalty where it belongs: on the people who actually carry out their own (perhaps mislead) personal choices.
Besides, I still vastly prefer Nintendo's games, and Nintendo's game philosophy, to anyone else's. My views have changed a little since those days... well, I think the word "matured" is a little bit better.
The fact is that since those days, my understanding of Nintendo has matured. I mean, who really wants flaming brand loyalty anyways? Nintendo's never asked for that. What they want is to make games that they can believe in, games that they believe are high-quality, and that they believe push the medium forward. And heck, if another company makes that (in small or large innovations, from GTA 3 to Halo), there's nothing in a Nintendo's fanboy's beliefs that forbids them from playing that! In fact, as believers in quality and exploring videogames, it's almost a Nintendo fans duty to play and explore these games.
And of course, Nintendo's gaming philosophy IS beautiful, but it isn't nearly the only way, nor should it be. Nintendo would've never pushed for adopting cinematic sensibilities like Konami and Metal Gear Solid has, nor would they have ventured out and tested the boundaries of pop-culture violence and sex like DMA/Rockstar North has with GTA3. And of course, Nintendo doesn't make FPS', where do FPS fans get their fix without Halo, without Half-Life 2?
Yet, those games don't work for me. They don't make me believe in the medium, they don't make me believe in magic, and they don't inspire me to drop hundreds of precious dollars on the hardware I need to play them. (Also, the hardware they play on... the interfaces aren't to my tastes) So obviously, even though I have come to respect other games and other systems, I still can't love them.
But Nintendo... I've matured and gotten a better understanding of their philosophies, and I still believe in them, call myself a fanboi, and almost exclusively buy their systems. But I've come to believe that to be a fanboi of Nintendo, I have to believe in videogames the way Nintendo does, not to put down other games, but to see them critically. Not to merely enjoy videogames, but to see them as a field where innovation and quality should be striven for. Not to merely play them, but for gosh sakes to understand them.
So I believe that I AM a fanboy, that I do exhibit brand loyalty, and that I do still argue on the side of Nintendo. But I like to think that the fanboy that I am, and that I'm trying to be, is exactly the type of fanboy that Nintendo can be proud of.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: rossi46 on July 01, 2006, 02:10:20 PM
I'm fully aware that this seems to contradict my earlier post, but I was originally berating the zealots, of which I was one, who would dismiss out of hand any machine other than the one they'd pleged alegiance to. Christ, I missed out on the best version of Streetfighter 2 on the Snes because I was a Megadrive (Genesis) fan. How stupid do you think I feel now? LOL.
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2006, 02:19:11 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: rossi46 on July 01, 2006, 02:28:01 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2006, 02:32:32 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: rossi46 on July 01, 2006, 02:35:48 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2006, 02:38:03 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: rossi46 on July 01, 2006, 02:50:24 PM
In David Scheff's book, 'Game Over - the Nintendo Story' he says the carts were all crushed before being encased in concrete then buried. Archaeologists of the future are going to think we were nuts.
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2006, 02:56:43 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on July 01, 2006, 02:58:55 PM
Post by: rossi46 on July 01, 2006, 03:05:27 PM
Post by: Hocotate on July 01, 2006, 06:31:05 PM
Even if Sony gets the most/best 3rd party support, I refuse to purchase a PS3. I will quite gaming before I buy one. $600 is an outrageous price and Sony knows it, but if they can get away with it and continue to be market leader, it will show them that the price is ok. You can bet that if the PS3 takes a solid 1st, the PS4 will be $1,000+. I broke down this gen and bought an import PS2 (mainly for my 2D fighters fix), but now that Nintendo has full SNK support, I have no need to purchase a Playstation...
I've always bought Nintendo and Sega systems, and that was enough for me. I've never accepted the big, non-gaming focused corperations (Sony, Microsoft).
Post by: Requiem on July 01, 2006, 07:08:41 PM
I can have just as much fun (or more) playing God of War on the PS2 as I can playing Super Mario Sunshine.
I wish I had an arcade because I love those as well. It really doesn't matter who makes the damn thing, just as long as it's fun and entertaining.
With that said, I have a preference to Nintendo simply because I like their games more. I'm not rich, I can't afford all three next gen consoles (though I do have all three current gen consoles). I don't have the luxury of sampling every console, so I have to make my decision through my preference which just happens to be Nintendo.
Post by: Arbok on July 01, 2006, 07:23:52 PM
These days, I have been drifiting more toward the handhelds as they fit my schedule better, although SSBB might change that in a major way...
Post by: Mario on July 01, 2006, 11:41:43 PM
Post by: rossi46 on July 02, 2006, 12:25:53 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 12:57:12 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on July 02, 2006, 01:05:59 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 02:33:53 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2006, 06:39:08 AM
In most cases brand loyality is a preferrance, but one that does not hold people back from buying other products.
It only becomes obsessed brand loyality when the cost of investment rises...just look at cars, computers, gaming consoles ect.
Now, there is actually some logic to brand loyality. If you can't afford both, then you have to choose.
Are you going to choose the system that has proven to have quality games you enjoy to play (or a quality car to drive) or are you going to risk another system?
Gaming is very expensive. I have to buy memory cards, 4 controllers, games, and the system itself. I can't afford to do that for multiple systems. I can't afford to figure out which games on ALL the systems I want to own. When I limit myself I am actually happier.
With this new generation the above is even more true. Who can afford to own a PS3 and Xbox 360? Even the Wii360 owners are paying a pretty penny for two systems. For now I stick with one portable system and one console system. This generation it is going to be Wii and DS.
The reason why is simple. I enjoy Nintendo's in house games more any anyother games.
Post by: please let me in, please on July 03, 2006, 07:07:02 AM
Post by: BigJim on July 04, 2006, 08:27:47 AM
Even when I first went online (1989, long before there was a "web" and my 286 computer had a hardcore 12MHz CPU and 1 MB of RAM) I found myself being a right-fighter. i.e. When someone says something wrong I jumped in. Even still today on this forum, when the "Nintendo-love-everything-they-do-is-right" air gets too thick, I've also jumped in sometimes to bring it back down to earth (as I saw it).
The GameCube ended up being a bitter pill, so I can't say I'm as much of a fanboy today as I was up until GameCube's launch. I can get Wii for the Nintendo games I like, but will turn to 360 and PC for everything else. Unless of course Wii surpasses my expectations and really does provide everything I want.
So, maybe I am a former fanboy.
Post by: rossi46 on July 04, 2006, 03:33:39 PM
Now, years later, I'm a tad wiser (hopefully) and have realised that it's thegames that are important, not the machine. I regularly look back in shame at how I used to get all evengelical about my chosen platform - be it Atari, Sega or whatever. On a daily basis I play PSP at work, my NGPC and Gamecube at home and other stuff when I get the chance. Hell, I even buy multi-format magzines. It makes me a little sad and embarrased to read threads on forums knocking other manufacurers. Let's face it - gamers get a hard enough time from the general media without fighting amongst ourselves.
Having said that, though, theres still a tiny piece of me that's never quite forgiven Sony for the Saturn massacre.....(joke)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 04, 2006, 05:33:15 PM
Another difference is the fact that there is now a market of three systems instead of two. It was easier to choose one side to love. Now a days it is easier just to choose a side to hate.
But we all want the product we have bought to succeed. Just now that we are older, we realize it is just a product and not truly a way of life. As children we didn't understand that. Just like with other things we become overly infactuated with.
Post by: couchmonkey on July 05, 2006, 07:01:36 AM
The cost of owning multiple consoles is still high, but if you're a bargain hunter it doesn't have to be. Wii360 seems like an expensive proposition, but for the same price as a 360, you could get a PS2, an Xbox and some games and accessories. That's what I would do if I were going to buy other consoles: get them near the end of the generation, and not worry too much about multiple controllers and such. Nintendo is my main console, the others would be just to experience the games I was missing out on.
Still, in the end, even old consoles are kind of expensive these days, and there are more than enough games to keep me entertained on GameCube, so I have yet to buy anything else.
Post by: JonLeung on July 05, 2006, 09:42:07 AM
I believe Nintendo fans like Nintendo games because of the values Nintendo tries to stand for - solid gameplay, good controls, high quality, family-friendly fun, etc. Many of the so-called PlayStation and Xbox fans seem to like them because they're sold on the idea that those are the best. When asked to defend their position they simply say "just because". Or something like "the PS2 has the most games" when there's no possible way they could've played most of them themselves. Or just because they never really bothered to look at the GameCube library. It's a whole marketing thing. It's almost amazing that Nintendo still has a lot of fans when their marketing budget is usually less. That's saying something about their games all right.
I don't like how Nintendo fanboys are often made out to be more dronish and radical. If you ask me, it's a lot less ridiculous to like Nintendo because you like their games than to like Sony/Microsoft because they paid a lot of money to get you to notice them.
Post by: oohhboy on July 05, 2006, 01:24:15 PM
It currently sits in his bedroom as a glorified DVD player. He is back on his more than decent PC playing WOW more than ever.
Idiot. Yeah I did call him that. Multiple times.
Post by: JonLeung on July 06, 2006, 04:58:39 AM
With the possible exceptions of the Tecmo and Rare games, every hyped Xbox game has been or will be available for the PC. Even Halo and Halo 2.
We have to be loyal to, or at least buy Nintendo products, if we want to play Nintendo's games.
Though I did see some weird (yet official) Pokémon game for the PC a short while ago. Didn't look that great, though...
Post by: couchmonkey on July 06, 2006, 06:25:27 AM
The non-Nintendo guy I know is in it for graphics. Nintendo didn't emphasize them enough on the GameCube for his tastes. He also just doesn't seem to be aware of Nintendo's better games. I think that's the case for a lot of people: they know Mario and that's about it. This guy was a big fan of Zelda and Metroid back in the day, but I don't think he ever played the Wind Waker or Metroid Prime.
Post by: Mario on July 11, 2006, 12:29:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: rossi46
None of the next-gen offerings are making me excited enough to part with my cash. Right now I have no plans to buy any of them. I'm a huge fan of racing games, which is why I bought a PSP, so when I eventually do buy a new console, I'll go with the one that can fill my racing game needs.
Three words. BIG DAMN TRUCKS!
Post by: Disco_Pimp on July 11, 2006, 09:08:18 AM
What's up, Rossi?
Post by: rossi46 on July 12, 2006, 11:08:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Disco_Pimp
What's up, Rossi?
Cat got my tongue.....
Choosing one system and sticking with it is not a bad thing. IMO, sticking with one system and verbally ripping to shreds anyone who disagrees with you is a bad thing. I know because I was that zealot. I look back with shame these days. In my original post I was asking if people still do that in 2006. I've spent the last few years buiding up a massive retro collection, I only recently got a 'modern' Gamecube.
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2006, 08:37:23 AM
It is a very dangerous tightrope we walk, those of us who believe so much in goodness that we are willing to give our loyalties and hearts to the mere potential of it. Yet even so, I cannot let go of it. There is something in me that, for all of my self-image and self-confidence and elementary school "leadership" training, wants to find something larger to which I can devote myself to.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Renny on July 13, 2006, 08:39:53 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2006, 08:54:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Renny
Have you considered Scientology?
Actually, I've considered devoting my entire being and life-savings to YTMND.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: SixthAngel on July 13, 2006, 11:30:30 AM
Brand loyalty can be very good for a consumer and company as well though. While the gamecube is only my second Nintendo system (first was the nes) I have played most of the N64 games (I want a new Blast Corp!!!) and many snes games. When a company consistently delivers the goods for so many years I would willing to trust that they will deliver them again and buy the Wii almost solely on faith. This rewards consumers for following a good company and rewards the company for consistent quality. This is not blind faith, the xbox is not a brand that should inspire this kind of loyalty because they simply have not proven that they can continue with only one generation of games under their belt.
I would consider the good brand loyalty a more mature kind of loyalty and it is far harder to gain then the first type of brand loyalty I mentioned.
Post by: rossi46 on July 13, 2006, 12:24:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
Brand Loyalty isn't always this brainwashing leadership you make it out to be. There is both good and bad brand loyalty. Bad would be when person has to feel they need to bring other products down in order for their choice to be superior. They have not tried other companies products and want them to fail just because they do not own them. Even if another product seems interesting it could never be good enough for a purchase.
Hooray.
You get there in the end, eh? That's what I'm talking about. That was me in the Sega years. Master System, Mega Drive (Genesis) *cough*Mega CD, Saturn (still my favourite) and Dreamcast. Everything else was shite, IMblinkeredO. The PS2 had all the best games, but the thought of playing it gave me the same feelings as when you poke your finger through the toilet paper when wiping your ass. It's all time wasted and lost that can never be gotten back.
Post by: Syl on July 19, 2006, 05:23:39 AM
I'm actually more of a PC gamer now. I love my cube (over 60 games), I love my PS2 (over 40 games) and i love my computer (infinite games).
I still love nintendo the most, it's the reason i got a tattoo of a nintendo icon over anything else - but you miss out on a ton of stuff by simply standing by a single system. I know that i'll be buying an xbox360 before the end of next year for a lot of stuff that is coming out for it, and i also know that early 2007 i'll be shoving 2 grand into another computer system. I don't mind this at all, i do what i need to play the games that are deserving.
(Of course, i'm getting a Wii at launch)
