Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: nolimit19 on June 08, 2006, 07:27:06 PM
Title: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nolimit19 on June 08, 2006, 07:27:06 PM
according to an article that appeared here and here, by using blu-ray technology in the ps3, sony may be repeating the same mistakes they made with betamex, mini-discs, and the memory stick. i am not sure whether to consider this a possibility because i'm not sure of the details. is sony not allowing other companies to produce technology that utilizes ble-ray? if so, i could see the authors point.
"Obsessed with owning proprietary formats, Sony keeps picking fights. It keeps losing. And yet it keeps coming back for more, convinced that all it needs to do is push a bigger stack of chips to the center of the table. If Blu-ray fails, it will be the biggest home-electronics failure since Betamax. If it drags PlayStation 3 down with it, it will be one of the biggest corporate blunders of our time."
any thoughts?
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2006, 07:41:28 PM
How joyful!
Maybe once they FAIL, they can drop the prices of their normal electronics products down to the prices they're really worth, like... competitive?!
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Mario on June 08, 2006, 07:43:01 PM
I thought this thread would be about PS3 being a N64.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Epitaph on June 08, 2006, 07:45:26 PM
If the ps3 dies then sony is more or less dead, last I heard the gaming division is the only one profiting. Sony is like the ford of home electronics, they were the leaders, got complacent, fell behind and the market got taken over by someone else. Right now that someone else seems like microsoft.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Mario on June 08, 2006, 07:48:44 PM
I'm hoping the sour taste PSP left in peoples mouths will have an effect on the floppage of PS3 as well.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nickmitch on June 08, 2006, 08:57:22 PM
But when confronted with the choice of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, do you think most average consumers will say: A) HD-DVD (with DVD being familiar and HD already being forced down their throats) B) Blu-Ray (Sony? Ok.) C) Please point me to the DVD section, the regular DVDs Blu-Ray just has nothing going for it.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2006, 08:59:14 PM
Quote 1. Bet all the marbles on Blu-Ray as a media format when it's likely to fail If you don't know, Sony has had 3 failed media formats in the past (Betamax, Minidisc and UMD). Blu-Ray will be their forth attempt to push a proprietary media format into the world and collect "phat lewtz" off of licensing fees. Problem is, HD-DVD is being supported by far more powerful studios, such as Universal and Time Warner, who intend to do everything they can to stamp out Blu-Ray like a misfired bottle rocket. These studios intend to release such giant movies as Lord of the Rings and King Kong in HD on the same day Sony releases Blu-Ray players. Now, they're trying to launch BR players at around $900. If you don't remember, VHS killed Betamax for one reason: because it was CHEAPER. If Sony truly wants to push BR as a format, they need to make it affordable to everyone and they are doing the exact opposite.
...But I still agree.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: KDR_11k on June 09, 2006, 12:29:41 AM
The one piece of history it will repeat is that noone gets a third gen at the top.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 09, 2006, 01:29:45 PM
KDR: So does that mean this is Microsoft's first year to be GEN top dog...or Will Nintendo rise above all odds and become generation leader again reclaiming its crown?
And isn't Nintendo top dog for like 3-4 generations with handhelds? Or does that count?
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nolimit19 on June 09, 2006, 03:34:46 PM
i think microsoft is taking over for this generation. you could kind of see it towards the end of this generation. nintendo will still have its niche market and will make a good profit. sony...i'm not so sure. this article brought up a lot of things i hadnt really thought about. it looks like they could have a tough time. especially if the price stays that high.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: wandering on June 09, 2006, 08:06:08 PM
Quote nintendo will still have its niche market and will make a good profit.
Yes, the niche 'everyone in the whole entire world' market.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: KDR_11k on June 09, 2006, 08:37:59 PM
Spak: Usually the ursurper is a newcomer. In this case I think MS is going to be like Sega, successful some territories, an utter failure in others and overall slightly below Nintendo :p.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nemo_83 on June 09, 2006, 09:29:12 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Mario I thought this thread would be about PS3 being a N64.
me too
N64 cart = blu ray
People are finally starting to smell Sony's BS and their support is crumbling faster than they can make bigger asses out of themselves by claiming it isn't a "toy" (game console), it's a computer, yeah, and I'll just get a Mac, Ken; all I want the thing to do is play games.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: ThePerm on June 10, 2006, 07:57:50 AM
i bet wii games will be cheap, from what i understand Iwata said they will price games based on the game, that means there will be alot of budget games which is great.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Garnee on June 10, 2006, 08:35:08 AM
Sony is repeating history by making another terrible console.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: couchmonkey on June 10, 2006, 01:06:11 PM
LOL @ Garnee.
Until Sony actually loses SquareEnix, or some equally big third party, I won't accept comparisons to N64.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: KDR_11k on June 10, 2006, 11:11:17 PM
it's a computer, yeah, and I'll just get a Mac, Ken; all I want the thing to do is play games.
Well, the PS3 is cheaper than a Mac...
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2006, 08:02:50 AM
lol. If it could only run a unix style operating system. Oh wait...
You know what the shame of all this?
Betamax was the better quality format but, didn't allow porn and was smaller. MiniDisc, was yet again in it's own way the better format but, Didn't release the MiniDisc computer drive here in the states where 650 MB of rewritable portable durable storage in the same size as a floppy would have done well. (Be better then Zip and the SuperDrive, which be who it was competing against, plus later on it's like a Gig) Blu-Ray gives much more storage but, releasing a format that doesn't really fit the need it's trying to primarily fill.
If Blu-Ray discs are sold at a price comparable to Dual Layer Burnable DVD's and the burners are not to expensive it could flourish. As a computer Person I like Blu-Ray better then HD-DVD. As someone who watches TV I could care less. Real shame about hte MiniDisc though.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nemo_83 on June 11, 2006, 08:41:34 AM
Quote Originally posted by: couchmonkey LOL @ Garnee.
Until Sony actually loses SquareEnix, or some equally big third party, I won't accept comparisons to N64.
Wii will recieve SquarEnix support, so they don't count either way.
"Well, the PS3 is cheaper than a Mac..."
And the PS3 will break down in a year.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: KDR_11k on June 11, 2006, 10:15:03 AM
S-E does count. Whichever console sees the DQ and FF main series will gain a significant sales boost in Japan. The question is whether that boost will be able to make up for the lost sales from the pricepoint. Hey, maybe MS will gain some mass in Japan with those Mistwalker games, which could end with them getting some smaller RailPG series.
And the PS3 will break down in a year.
And the Mac will be so utterly obsolete that it could just as well break down. Unless you pay 2-3 times the price of a PS3 for a decent Mac.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: SixthAngel on June 11, 2006, 10:47:19 AM
I have a general question.
Do you think the average person who buys a PS3 will then start to buy bluray discs or will they stick to DVD or some combination of the two?
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Kairon on June 11, 2006, 10:51:45 AM
Combination of the two I guess. They'd get Blu-ray when possible as long as the blue-ray editions cost less than $30. They've already spent 500+ on the PS3, so I fugre they'd know what they're doing and are ready to make a financial commitment to the medium.
~Carmine M. Red Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nickmitch on June 11, 2006, 07:24:48 PM
I think it'd have more to do with the price of a Blu-Ray as compared to a DVD. People would be more likely to go with the cheaper DVD, if possible.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nitsu niflheim on June 12, 2006, 11:43:17 AM
especially when they see no visual difference between the two, because their TV is only HD ready and not outputting or whatever in HD.
My tv is HD ready, so all I need, I guess is to get the box to make it HD, but right now why bother?
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: BigJim on June 14, 2006, 04:47:03 AM
The HD tuner "box" doesn't apply to video games and/or Blu-Ray players. The box is only necessary for cable/satellite/over-the-air TV reception. So they'll see a difference between the two as long as they use an HD cable.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: UncleBob on June 14, 2006, 05:17:55 AM
I don't understand completly why using Blu-Ray for the PS3 is an issue. Except for the PS1, PS2, XBox and XBox 360 - pretty much every other single system out there (major and minor) have used some kind of proprietary media. No one knocks the PSP for playing games via UMD - it's the same concept. Let's say that the Blu-Ray movie format completly bombs out and dies in two and a half months - as with the PSP/UMD Movie format - Just because the UMD Movie format died horribly, it doesn't mean that the PSP itself is going to die because of that... It's almost like saying that the GBA is going to fail because GBA Video did so horribly.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Ceric on June 14, 2006, 05:28:00 AM
Your right the PSP has lots of Suicidal things. Actually, all joking asside, UncleBob is right. If Blu-Ray flops the cost to make a Blu-Ray disc is not like the cost of a cart for the N64. They could still do alright. Maybe even sell more games because of it. Proprietory media is nothing new. The extra storage over the Wii and XBox 360 will really help, Sony. (I mean there are just not enough cutscenes in FF. Sheesh. )
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 14, 2006, 08:03:40 AM
well, although not cart-like, BR discs are actually more expensive to produce compared to CD/DVD/HDDVD, and if BR is a mayor flop (I'm hoping that it is) I don't see prices lowering too much
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: ThePerm on June 14, 2006, 08:49:13 AM
yeah, nintendo uses a proprietary format for gamecube, and its price has worked out for games, if Blueray flops as a movie format, it can still be a viable game format. It does have a shitload of space on it.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 08:52:42 AM
Quote Originally posted by: KDR_11k Well, the PS3 is cheaper than a Mac...
Quote Originally posted by: KDR_11k And the Mac will be so utterly obsolete that it could just as well break down. Unless you pay 2-3 times the price of a PS3 for a decent Mac.
I still have a mac laptop from 1999 which works just fine under OSX and is an ideal email, web, VPN machine. I also have a mac which is even older which runs as a file server and hasn't crashed in 2-3 years (again, OSX).
Since Apple still releases regular updates which support 7+ year old macs, it safe to say that consoles are obsolete years before macs become obsolete.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 09:00:02 AM
Quote Originally posted by: UncleBob No one knocks the PSP for playing games via UMD - it's the same concept.
Someone would have to play games on it first in order for that to happen.
I think the issue is that Sony is attempting to use the PS3 to push BluRay into the market instead of generating a market for it beforehand. The PS2 didn't push DVD: DVD was already established and the PS2 was a competitively priced DVD player.
The PS3 may be a competitively priced BluRay player, but Sony needs to convince the world they should care about that fact first (something they could not do with UMD, Minidisc and Betamax).
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 14, 2006, 09:03:12 AM
Quote Originally posted by: ThePerm yeah, nintendo uses a proprietary format for gamecube, and its price has worked out for games, if Blueray flops as a movie format, it can still be a viable game format. It does have a shitload of space on it.
hte GC discs are just miniDVDs (I believe they use a special replicator), not some new, unproven format that need special factories to be made....
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: IceCold on June 14, 2006, 02:53:25 PM
This didn't deserve a thread of its own, so I decided to put it here. Check it out.. pretty funny. It's a secret to everybody!
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 14, 2006, 04:55:18 PM
Quote Originally posted by: IceCold This didn't deserve a thread of its own, so I decided to put it here. Check it out.. pretty funny. It's a secret to everybody!
Man you have to give Sony a break! I would like to see you slap a Dual Shock control shell over WarioWare Twisted and program a game demo in under a week. Yours wouldn't be perfect either you know! Some people, sheesh.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 14, 2006, 08:23:42 PM
Quote Originally posted by: IceCold This didn't deserve a thread of its own, so I decided to put it here. Check it out.. pretty funny. It's a secret to everybody!
so, PS3 actually is a media center/game system/viagra substitute....
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: KDR_11k on June 14, 2006, 10:53:41 PM
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 15, 2006, 05:56:25 AM
I guess really this just shows how easy it is for a company (or politician, or anyone really) to be consumed with the power and opportunities given it.
Nintendo lost sight with the industry by keeping to its old traditional believes and not seeing technology change.
Sony has lost sight by believing the masses will buy anything PlayStation even if it comes with an outrageous price tag, or incorporate unproven and nonstandardized technology.
$600.00 is a big risk for a consumer to buy a product that may or may not become the standard movie player device. And as a video game system their is cheaper options that are just as powerful (Xbox 360) or a nice economic friendly counter option (Nintendo Wii).
If Microsoft can somehow push into the Japanese market I believe they would win the console majority this generation. As it is. I believe it may be split between Microsoft and Nintendo.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 15, 2006, 11:20:45 AM
Quote Originally posted by: KDR_11k Smash_Brother: 659€. PS3 deluxe is 599€.
PS3 + 1 game (forget memory cards, extra controllers, etc.) = 669€+
Mac = 659€, bundled with tons of functionality software
Plus, the Mac is guaranteed to not be obsolete for 7-8 years and performs a variety of functions which the PS3 can never hope to achieve, and it's smaller and likely generates far less heat.
Title: RE: PS3 repeating history?
Post by: KDR_11k on June 16, 2006, 02:34:48 AM
PS3 + Linux = ???
Never mind that 600€ is the high end PS3 and 659€ is the low end Mac Mini. And don't count games for the PS3 since then we'd have to add the price of Windows (500€ as a standalone I think) since that's what you'll need for playing games on the system (well, that and a new computer since the Mini has no 3d performance).
But I think this whole discussion is pointless since a PC can be had for 180€ and can run Linux as well.
Title: RE:PS3 repeating history?
Post by: nitsu niflheim on June 16, 2006, 04:42:20 AM
Quote Originally posted by: BigJim The HD tuner "box" doesn't apply to video games and/or Blu-Ray players. The box is only necessary for cable/satellite/over-the-air TV reception. So they'll see a difference between the two as long as they use an HD cable.
