Post by: Kairon on June 07, 2006, 07:03:29 AM
Quote
Speaking at a marketing event in Japan, as reported by Reuters and Famitsu.com, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has said that the Wii console is initially expected to make little contribution to the company’s next full year profits.
Iwata confirmed that Nintendo expects to sell six million Wii consoles worldwide in the period ending March 31st, 2007 (4 million before the end of the calendar year) and 17 million units of Wii software. If the company does not expect these targets to produce any significant profit for the company it suggests, contrary to Nintendo’s usual practices, that the hardware will be sold at or near a loss.
Full link here: Gamasutra
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: ShyGuy on June 07, 2006, 07:15:47 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 07, 2006, 07:29:57 AM
That can only mean good things for us since we know the price won't exceed $250. I'm guessing Nintendo has decided to throw in all the needed attachments and maybe another controller as well as WiiSports and some VC game, thus making it a wonderful package that really doesn't make much profit. However, the benefits far outweigh the bads since people will then realize how wonderful the system is from Wii to VC.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 07, 2006, 08:16:32 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 07, 2006, 08:25:17 AM
Also, if it launches at 250-200 and comes with a bunch of pack-ins, it'll make it seem like a steal and not like a underpowered "toy".
Post by: Ceric on June 07, 2006, 08:32:57 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 07, 2006, 08:47:48 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 07, 2006, 08:55:11 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on June 07, 2006, 08:57:51 AM
Post by: Strell on June 07, 2006, 09:01:46 AM
Why?
BECAUSE THERE'S ABOUT 10 GAMES I MUST HAVE AT LAUNCH.
****.
That's not even including VC games.
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on June 07, 2006, 09:49:06 AM
That image wins.
Pair this with the news that Nintendo is waiting until August to announce the console price. Nintendo plans on creating a storm of OMGWTFLOL must buy from impulse purchasers. I think you'll see this system debut with the works. 2 Wii controllers. 2 VC Controllers. A pack in game (Wii Sports). And some free downloads off the virtual console. And it'll cost $200.
Post by: getter77 on June 07, 2006, 10:00:49 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 07, 2006, 11:02:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Frozen Atlantic That image wins.
I can't claim credit for it, but it has been appropriate in a surprising number of situations.
Post by: TrueNerd on June 07, 2006, 11:58:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
They can afford a small loss.
Why?
BECAUSE THERE'S ABOUT 10 GAMES I MUST HAVE AT LAUNCH.
****.
That's not even including VC games.
Yeah, the typical Nintendo fan who's buying the Wii at launch will probably want, at the bare minimum, two games (Metroid and Zelda) and at most like EIGHT games. (Red Steel, Madden, Rayman, Wario Ware, Wii Sports, Trauma Center, etc) Nintendo can certainly afford a marginal loss at the beginning.
Post by: Ceric on June 07, 2006, 12:38:46 PM
Post by: Jensen on June 07, 2006, 03:16:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
I don't think a low price would be that effective. They don't want to effect their DS sales. And since 150 is damn near 120, it'll do just that.
I don't see how having an inexpensive console will make a portable sell less.
The DS will connect with the Wii more easily than the GBA did with the Cube.
Quote
Plus, you never want to start off with a low price because it throws out the possibility of dropping the price after one year.
You also don't wan't to call a console "Wii". You don't want to put less buttons on the new controller than the old one. You don't want to release a console that isn't all that much more powerful than the previous one. Nintendo is doing things differently with this console.
Quote
Also, if it launches at 250-200 and comes with a bunch of pack-ins, it'll make it seem like a steal and not like a underpowered "toy".
It already comes with the pack-ins that differentiate Microsoft's core and premium systems. It has built in storage space, wireless controllers and wireless network abilities.
Post by: Original_Hamster on June 07, 2006, 03:49:35 PM
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Satoru Iwata has said that the Wii console is initially expected to make little contribution to the company’s next full year profits.
Well it is not new, Gamecube was sold at $4 profit margin, low but profit anyway, the same way that probably they gonig to sell Wii, less profit doesn't mean losses, just less profit.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 07, 2006, 08:07:15 PM
Quote
Satoru Iwata has said that the Wii console is initially expected to make little contribution to the company’s next full year profits.
The console shouldn't be their moneymaker anyway: it's the software, and I've no doubt that the software will do JUST fine.
Post by: Requiem on June 07, 2006, 09:27:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jensen
I don't see how having an inexpensive console will make a portable sell less.
The DS will connect with the Wii more easily than the GBA did with the Cube.
While I see your point, people are going to buy either the Wii or the DS as a gift this holiday season. If the prices are too close, many of those DS sales could potentially become Wii sales. It's still good for Nintendo, but putting your hardware in direct competition has always been stupid.
Quote
You also don't wan't to call a console "Wii". You don't want to put less buttons on the new controller than the old one. You don't want to release a console that isn't all that much more powerful than the previous one. Nintendo is doing things differently with this console.
No, seriously. You don't want to start off the system with such a low price.
First off: It's going to sell out anyway. Nintendo has the largest fanbase of the three, so they can count on that.
Secondly: People like seeing "New low price" next to something they might of had a peripheral view on. It simply catches peoples attention, period.
Quote
It already comes with the pack-ins that differentiate Microsoft's core and premium systems. It has built in storage space, wireless controllers and wireless network abilities.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. If it had even more stuff within the system, it will make it seem like a steal when compared to the 360 and especially the PS3. So what if it already comes with whatever you said....people like to read a long list of items pre-packaged within the system -- especially if that system is a hell of alot cheaper than the competition.
Post by: BigJim on June 08, 2006, 03:23:53 AM
I interpreted the text to simply mean they're planning to be close to break-even on the hardware. I think we were all expecting that.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2006, 09:54:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim I interpreted the text to simply mean they're planning to be close to break-even on the hardware. I think we were all expecting that.
That might mean that the Wii will sell for a possible $250 and that such a price will be close to breaking even.
Didn't think of it that way. I guess we're all hoping for the other way around.
Post by: SixthAngel on June 08, 2006, 11:03:20 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 08, 2006, 11:13:10 AM
What about $250?
Post by: Arbok on June 08, 2006, 01:37:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
Nearly all vc games will work with the regular remote so don't make me buy this.
Have fun playing N64 games on that, or any fighting game SNK might produce for the system...
Post by: stevey on June 08, 2006, 02:06:17 PM
. But low profit can hurt nintendo when even though their kick sony butt in sale the dont have high profit and lable as the loser.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 08, 2006, 02:16:09 PM
Post by: Jensen on June 08, 2006, 02:41:33 PM
I don't think there will be many games that will require two Wiimotes for singleplayer. Some may allow it as in alternative to wiimote+nunchuck, but unless a game needs one player to drive two cursors similtaniously(unlikely), it won't be needed.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 08, 2006, 10:23:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
I think packing in items is an awful idea (besides maybe a second remote). The nunchuk and remote is the standard controller and that is what you should get. Adding in a vc controller will just confuse consumers (especially non-gamers) and developers who see two controllers. It is also selling me something I don't want. Nearly all vc games will work with the regular remote so don't make me buy this.
I disagree, if they want it to be supported they need to pack it in, in fact making Brawl compatible with the VC controller for example will make it more likely to be a system seller.
And selling it with Wii sports will not only make the $200 dollar price seem more attractive, but will also make it more attractive to the non gamer, they can buy it and say go home without buying another game, and actually try it out first, and as Reggie said playing is believing, it makes it more an impulse buy.
Also, the idea of two controllers packed in is vital, not only to the theme of the system, as something for people to play with others, but also it will explain the Wii moniker, the two ii's.
If Nintendo packs in two controllers with Nunchuks, one classic controller and Wii sports, at $200, you won't find one on the shelves for months after launch, even at $250 it'll still seem like a good deal.
Post by: Requiem on June 08, 2006, 10:40:19 PM
That's a great deal!
Really, the only thing that I would add to the package is a VC card thats good for a free download. Basically, it would be giving out the original Mario Bros. for free -- which might be a good or bad idea, but the idea behind it is solid. It not only let's the person tryout his VC controller, but it also gives them incentive to actually check the online feature out and see what it has to offer. Plus, of course, its giving the consumer the opportunity to play what they consider to be the greatest game of all time -- for free*.
Post by: wandering on June 08, 2006, 10:55:42 PM
Quote
"Iwata has said that the Wii console is initially expected to make little contribution to the company’s next full year profits."
I interpreted the text to simply mean they're planning to be close to break-even on the hardware. I think we were all expecting that.
Or it could mean that he expects the losses from console sales and profit from hardware sales to balance each other out, making Nintendo break even overall when it comes to the Wii.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 09, 2006, 12:09:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
If Nintendo packs in two controllers with Nunchuks, one classic controller and Wii sports, at $200, you won't find one on the shelves for months after launch, even at $250 it'll still seem like a good deal.
That's a great deal!
Really, the only thing that I would add to the package is a VC card thats good for a free download. Basically, it would be giving out the original Mario Bros. for free -- which might be a good or bad idea, but the idea behind it is solid. It not only let's the person tryout his VC controller, but it also gives them incentive to actually check the online feature out and see what it has to offer. Plus, of course, its giving the consumer the opportunity to play what they consider to be the greatest game of all time -- for free*.
Heh, if that happens Nintendo will have to release another apology(probably WW this time) about how they failed to take into account consumer demand, and are working to rectify shortages (Though I think they'd be happy to make that apology
plus Mario will have more sarcasm to mete out)Post by: Ceric on June 09, 2006, 05:06:44 AM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 09, 2006, 05:20:33 AM
Remeber Wii's goal is to attract the Non-gamer, and the non-gamer will want everything they need right in the box, otherwise they won't use it.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 09, 2006, 08:11:14 AM
Easy out? What the hell? What's wrong with giving developers the OPTION to make whatever game they want and make it control any way they want? Nintendo's whole third party problems are a result of this sort of "we decide what's best for you" attitude. If a third party doesn't want to use the remote for a certain game they should be allowed to use something that better suits their needs. There is no disadvantage whatsoever for providing the classic controller aside from the cost of doing so. Stop looking at the Wii as some ideology and look at it for what it is: a videogame console that should suit the needs of developers and consumers.
And these arguements about it being confusing don't make any sense. If you're so dumb that having two different controllers confuse you then you're too dumb to connect a videogame console to your TV and you're too dumb to play videogames. I buy appliances or electronics all the time that come with something that at first glance I don't understand. Then I look at the manual and immediately get it. All Nintendo has to do is state in the console's manual that it comes with a classic controller for the Virtual Console. Done. If you can't figure that out it's a miracle you can feed yourself.
Nintendo picked a remote design because they felt a TV remote was something people were familiar with. Well people always have different remotes for their TV, VCR, DVD player, CD player, etc. and they manage to deal with it.
Post by: Requiem on June 09, 2006, 08:14:36 AM
Plus, if they added a free VC game card, it would be further incentive to look through the manual and see what the Wii really has to offer. Then through word of mouth, the Wii should take off in sales.
Post by: Kairon on June 09, 2006, 08:33:06 AM
Maybe Nintendo intends it merely as a bridge to SNES, TgFX-16, Genesis and N64 titles(NES and GC work just fine on the Wii already), Maybe Nintendo will actually release new games designed specifically for it, Maybe it'll be used to entice third-party ports from less adventurous developers, Maybe it's still vaporware and Maybe Nintendo has no idea what they're doing with it whatsoever.
I sorta believe we've got little, if any, ground at this point in time to predict what Nintendo will do with the VC controller. Or even what they intend to do with it.
This lack of concrete details may be the reason we've only seen 3 titles from Hudson officially stated for VC release.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: vudu on June 09, 2006, 09:49:28 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 09, 2006, 10:03:02 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 09, 2006, 12:52:38 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Garnee on June 09, 2006, 01:48:55 PM
Post by: IceCold on June 09, 2006, 06:49:12 PM
QuoteSoftware, right?
Or it could mean that he expects the losses from console sales and profit from hardware sales to balance each other out, making Nintendo break even overall when it comes to the Wii.
Post by: wandering on June 09, 2006, 08:12:47 PM
Quote
Software, right?
Right.
I mean, no - I don't make mistakes! I was, uh, talking about the possibility of reggie creating a new dimension where 2 contradictory things can be true at the same time.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 09, 2006, 08:31:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Isn't the reason Nintendo moved to the remote because the old controller scared away non-gamers? I don't think packing in the traditional controller makes sense--it will scare them. BOO! If this is Nintendo's thinking, they'll never pack in the traditional controller--it's much more likely they're include two remotes/nunchucks.
Then you're basically hobbling usage of the Virtual console
Quote
I highly doubt that Brawl will require the VC controller to play. The Nunchuck-Wiimote combo covers all basic functions minus the c-stick easy-smash that I ALWAYS use, the nub that I am.
It may not require use of the classic controller, but it will make it easier for those who don't want to use the Wiimote, and who don't have a GCN controller handy
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 09, 2006, 08:34:54 PM
Post by: Chode2234 on June 10, 2006, 05:46:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I still think packing in the Classic Controller(WiiClassic) would be detremental. I know it's cute and all but the focus of Nintendo is the new control scheme and friends. It doesn't make sense to give developers an easy out.
WTF? Why do we assume that developers are looking for an easy way out. If I developed video games I would much rather work with the cool new wii-mote than some stupid SNES controller. Why would they simply use the gamepad that attaches to the wiimote? They wouldn't, developers are attracted to the wii because of the cool new interface and the cool things they can do with it. One could argue that they are also attracted to it because of the huge post e3 interest, which is because gamers are pretty excited about the cool new interface.
If Nintendo really wants to be the iTunes of video games, then they need to give the controller away for people to play these old games with. But to think that developers are looking for an easy way out is lunacy and shows a lack of respect for developers and gamers too.
Post by: Ceric on June 10, 2006, 07:45:52 AM
You say I'll be missing out on games? Which ones? Nintendo has already stated that None of the Wii controllers will be compatible with GCN games. That might change but that's how it stands. So I'll need a GCN controller for those and a Memory card more than likely. Ok. Maybe they should be packed in too.
You know, being the gamer that I am, I have the Wii to play Wii exclusive games. Those just so happen to use the Wiimote and Nunchuku for the most part. If not I can probably find it for my XBox 360 or PS3 that I'm also suppose to own. They'll have better graphics in theory and if it's the PS3 more disc space to play with.
In a way this is all silly. Most of the people in this thread want the WiiClassic bundled in. Then you turn around and say that you want the console to sell cheap but, it needs to have 2 Wiimotes. To keep costs down Nintendo will have to have priorities. The VC at this stage should not be a driving force on the sales. It should be the Wii games. Not the old games. Yeah, in all actuallity, if I was a non-gamer, non-computer person the package I would really like at launch would be (Actually at $250 I would REALLY love this pack at launch even though I have a wireless router, I got it for the DS (Sort of like I made sure my next TV was HD for the Cube)):
1 Wii
2 Wiimote units
2 WiiClassic
1 Wireless Router
1 Month of Free Broadband
1 Month of Free VC access
1 Packed in Wii game
1 Set of Every possible connection (Composite,S-Video, Component, HDMI, DVI, VGA, Coaxial, RCA, Headphone plug (I mean I've used all but the HDMI and DVI with my cube because of certian circumstances. Having to buy a special cable thats just wrong, right?))
Why a Wireless Router instead of a USB Adapter. Simple. I might not have a Computer but the Wii has a browser so the convenience could get me hooked on Broadband. This package would guarentee that everyone has a chance to get the most out of the Wii. Now the Wireless Router doesn't have to be bundled in. It could be a rebate for the full cost on a Nintendo approved Router and obviously broadband would have to be negotiated with your local provider. I want all this at $250 which would probably be a hefty loss in Nintendo terms.
Though this also assumes that I'm competent with Electronics already. But we all know what assuming does. Maybe we should pack in a voucher for free installation and setup.
I apologize if I misspelled anything. I have no spell check.
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 09:17:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Chode2234Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I still think packing in the Classic Controller(WiiClassic) would be detremental. I know it's cute and all but the focus of Nintendo is the new control scheme and friends. It doesn't make sense to give developers an easy out.
WTF? Why do we assume that developers are looking for an easy way out. If I developed video games I would much rather work with the cool new wii-mote than some stupid SNES controller. Why would they simply use the gamepad that attaches to the wiimote? They wouldn't, developers are attracted to the wii because of the cool new interface and the cool things they can do with it. One could argue that they are also attracted to it because of the huge post e3 interest, which is because gamers are pretty excited about the cool new interface.
If Nintendo really wants to be the iTunes of video games, then they need to give the controller away for people to play these old games with. But to think that developers are looking for an easy way out is lunacy and shows a lack of respect for developers and gamers too.
The developers aren't the problem. The publishers are, and the non-researching mass-market consumers are.
Gamers? HAH! Don't make me laugh. There are no gamers! We are a dead people, trampled under the tide of mass consumerism and sensationalism and the ongoing corporate takeover of our world! HAHAHA! HAHAHA! IT'S SO FREAKING SAD! HAHAHAHA! *slump*
...uh...but seriously. That's exactly what several developers have been saying recently. Their cdustomers are the publishers, and realistically, what they publisher says, goes, because they need to feed their kids. If we want better games and more innovative games and less sequels, then we have got to DARNED STOP BUYING THEM! ... so yeah, the problem is us, and the publishers goe by our spending habits, and most code-to-hand-to-mouth developers have no choice but to do what the publisher says.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 09:33:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
So Nintendo should also pack in a Wireless Router or USB Wireless Adapter? I mean, not being able to get online greatly hurts the VC. Not to mention I'm sure that a lot of developers would like to have online games or be able to patch there games later so they can get a release out like in the PC world, though I really doubt that any console developer would do this. If I can't get online for the VC stuff, which everyone seems to be in agreeance that is the main purpose of the WiiClassic, why should it drive the cost up on my initial package. Especially since it would probably replace a second Wiimote unit that I would find more useful being that I can't get online because of no Wireless.
QFT.
Why pack in the Wii Classic if you the mainstream non-gamer who buys the system isn't likely to have wireless, or even broadband yet?
If you want to use the virtual console out of the box for NON GC and NES titles, you need:
-broadband connection
-wireless/ethernet-to-usb adaptor/cable
-Wii Classic controller
-credit card
... those are still some pretty stiff obstacles even if you pre-include the Classic controller.
I'm imagining something more like a $30 classic controller accessory pack:
$30
Wii Classic Controller
code/card good for any 2 free VC games (the packaging would feature Sega's Sonic, Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: OoT, and Hudson's R-Type, among other games)
This way you make a conscious decision to opt into the virtual console BECAUSE you already know you have a connection.
But, what will get people to try out the virtual console, you ask?
Well, the Wii controller can play NES titles. That'll be the section that people try out the virtual console concept with, and then they'll graduate to other titles when they see that big list of awesome titles that they cannot buy.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on June 10, 2006, 10:02:26 AM
I like the Bundle pack idea that Kairon has. Get the classic controller and any 2 VC games.
Alternatively, why not have a full controller bundle? Assuming that the Classic and Wiimote w/ Nunchuku sells at $30 each. Sell the pack with them all for $50, which is the price of a game, throw in 2 cheap VC games and call it a day. Or even a VC card pack if they go with that idea like some have mentioned. I personally wouldn't mind if Nintendo dug up the E-Reader stuff and made it an accessory. Collectable cards I could get into that. But on average it would mean that you probably pay more for the games then straight up but they be great for promotions. Also that could be the only way to get some games until demand deems a full release. Take this one step forward. Nintendo would give you some form of credit for the games you already own. So if you get a DK and it's you're third. You scan it anyways and Nintendo checks it off in there database and gives you a credit for the price of the game minus a dollar or something.
You know I think this coudl use it's own thread.
Post by: decoyman on June 10, 2006, 10:40:16 AM
However, the much greater possibility is that the VC controller won't be, but there'll be two Wiimotes packed in, each w/ nunchuku attachments. This not only goes hand-in-hand with Nintendo's "Wii" name (2 'i's which symbolize the Wiimotes, and the fundamental idea of "We" and playing together) strategy, but also opens the door to developers who'd like to employ "dual-Wiimote" action in their single-player games (you know you wanna be like "Drum Guy" from that one trailer).
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 10:59:49 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: SixthAngel on June 10, 2006, 11:16:48 AM
SSBB will not need it to play either, a connected controller might be easier or more familiar but it is not needed.(4 buttons and a dpad/stick). So I am supposed to buy four remotes and four shells to play with friends? Depending on what game I want to play I have to find the attachment that works for that game (nunchuk or shell)? Nintendo's idea of a fast startup and being able to play immediately doesn't fit well with multiple standard attachments.
Some people here still think it shoud be packed in to give developers another option. If you want to play standard games Wii is not for you. The point of the system is the new controls and putting in the old controller implies it is somehow broken and encourages developers to not use the remote. In all honesty the announcement of the shell that would play ported and old style games was probably just a good PR move. It calmed down fanboys who want the old controls until they got used to the remote idea but will probably never be used (aside frome the vc).
Finally if you sell a system to nongamers you don't want the first thing they do to be wondering what input device to use and then give them a device they will never use so it just takes up space.
Post by: Jensen on June 10, 2006, 01:08:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
but also opens the door to developers who'd like to employ "dual-Wiimote" action in their single-player games (you know you wanna be like "Drum Guy" from that one trailer).
A drum game would fully support both two Wiimotes and the Wiimote/nunchaku combination. Unless you want one player to control two cursors simultaneously, dual Wiimotes isn't necessary
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 01:53:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JensenQuote
Originally posted by: decoyman
but also opens the door to developers who'd like to employ "dual-Wiimote" action in their single-player games (you know you wanna be like "Drum Guy" from that one trailer).
A drum game would fully support both two Wiimotes and the Wiimote/nunchaku combination. Unless you want one player to control two cursors simultaneously, dual Wiimotes isn't necessary
How would the nunchuck know which drum it's hitting? It'd need pointer functionailty to figure out quasi 3D relative positioning to hit any of the assortment of drums in the demo for that.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on June 10, 2006, 02:08:47 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 02:30:18 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Griffin on June 10, 2006, 02:41:39 PM
Post by: Jensen on June 10, 2006, 02:47:18 PM
Edit: I didn't see a drum demo, can you point me to it? or are you just refering to the video of a couple of guys pretending to play a drum game?
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 02:57:23 PM
And the IR field of vision doesn't seem to be much of a problem for this. At least, I haven't seen anything to suggest that from this video.
More:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OY8NUaaESI0&search=wii%20drum
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RsPmcZoitOs&search=wii%20drum
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3nQTBdqHikQ&search=wii%20drum
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Jensen on June 10, 2006, 03:59:39 PM
It is a bit hard to figure out exactly what they are doing to hit different drums. The guy on the right is swinging the wiimote towards the side to hit cymbals. That could be determined with just the accelerometers.
Are there some written impressions on the game?
Post by: Requiem on June 10, 2006, 04:29:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
So Nintendo should also pack in a Wireless Router or USB Wireless Adapter? I mean, not being able to get online greatly hurts the VC. Not to mention I'm sure that a lot of developers would like to have online games or be able to patch there games later so they can get a release out like in the PC world, though I really doubt that any console developer would do this. If I can't get online for the VC stuff, which everyone seems to be in agreeance that is the main purpose of the WiiClassic, why should it drive the cost up on my initial package. Especially since it would probably replace a second Wiimote unit that I would find more useful being that I can't get online because of no Wireless.
QFT.
You forget that the Wii is compatible with the GC.
Post by: bmfrosty on June 10, 2006, 04:58:23 PM
The ClassiCon is too important to not to include with every system.
-bmfrosty (rambling)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 10, 2006, 05:05:50 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 06:05:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrosty
I expect a Classic Controller Shell to be included with every system. Without it you split the market, and you deny a lot of opportunity. With the classic controller shell, remakes and ports of anything on an earlier console become feasable. Another thing to remember, and this is important, is that Nintendo has Veto rights on any and all games for it's system. If there isn't some specific reason for a game to be mainly controlled by the wiimote and nun-chuck, nintendo's going to deny it. If Konami were to declare that they want to remake Symphony of the Night with better graphics, they're not going to include Nintendo in on the deal if they can't rely on a controller suitable for the game being in the hands of every owner.
The ClassiCon is too important to not to include with every system.
-bmfrosty (rambling)
But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too.
The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.
Quote
Originally posted by: Shorty McNostril
Was there any bass drum kickpedal or anything in the drumming game??
Not that I saw.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Jensen on June 10, 2006, 06:17:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shorty McNostril
Was there any bass drum kickpedal or anything in the drumming game??
That would be awesome!
Post by: bmfrosty on June 10, 2006, 06:42:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too.
The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I think you're mistaking their front facing marketing message with their true objectives. They want to focus on new experiences and new customers, *AND* want to be the place to go for the hardcore and nostalgic. Ergo, if they want to be a target for old-style *AND* new-style games, they will not want to have a split market, and they will include the ClassiCon with every system. If they're smart, they'll also include $10 worth of VC downloads with system registration.
-bmfrosty
Post by: Requiem on June 10, 2006, 10:55:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrostyQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too.
The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I think you're mistaking their front facing marketing message with their true objectives. They want to focus on new experiences and new customers, *AND* want to be the place to go for the hardcore and nostalgic. Ergo, if they want to be a target for old-style *AND* new-style games, they will not want to have a split market, and they will include the ClassiCon with every system. If they're smart, they'll also include $10 worth of VC downloads with system registration.
-bmfrosty
That's exactly what I've been saying all along, exept, of course, that each system should offer 1 free download.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 10, 2006, 10:59:58 PM
And if they wanted to give us a real challenge a pedal for the high hats as well. But i doubt that would happen.
All optional settings of course. It wouldn't really be fair if it was required.
Anyway i'm right off topic so....
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 11:38:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrosty
I think you're mistaking their front facing marketing message with their true objectives. They want to focus on new experiences and new customers, *AND* want to be the place to go for the hardcore and nostalgic. Ergo, if they want to be a target for old-style *AND* new-style games, they will not want to have a split market, and they will include the ClassiCon with every system. If they're smart, they'll also include $10 worth of VC downloads with system registration.
-bmfrosty
I...can see what you're saying...Hmmm... What exactly leads you to believe that this is their true objective as opposed to their stated-marketting speak being representative of their true objective?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on June 10, 2006, 11:42:41 PM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 11, 2006, 01:06:42 AM
Quote
But Nintendo doesn't want straight ports, remember? The Wii is an "and" console. You have a Wii "and" an X360 or PS3. With this mentality, what the Wii needs are games that make it special, not games that make it me too. The Wii is supposed to be owned in addition to a traditional console for hardcore gamers. Why would Nintendo waste energy competing against consoles they expect your customers to buy anyways? They're concentrating on being the console you buy because there are games on it that you can't play anywhere else simply BECAUSE of the unique and new and unconventional control scheme.
I bet you believed Nintendo when they said the DS was the "Third Pillar"
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2006, 06:14:45 AM
About the VC stuff. My long rant. It's putting the Cart before the Horse. I'm pretty sure Nintendo wants you online more then they want you to be able to play every single VC game out of the box. As of now no Wireless router or Broadband trial has been mentioned packaged in.
Personally if I was Nintendo I avoid ports like the plague. If this generation is any indication, they won't sell and crowd out good original titles.
To keep the pricing down it's a one or the other type of thing more then likely. Nintendo more than likely wants both of those markets but, they can't take hits, even with the DS, like Sony and MS can. For Nintendo and their Blue Ocean strategy nostalgia is not as near a profitable path in the long run as unique Wii games so, it make sense for that to be their focus.
Even on the XBoxes, where online is arguably there #1 feature and requirements are lower then the Wii's, a good percentage of the XBox community is still not online. (A quick Google search brings up 50%)
I'm really curious when we're going to see the new 2nd Pillar, Gameboy.
Did anyone else notice that in the Drummer thing that all the Wiimotes shown had no nunchuku but had a cord just sort of dangling down?
Post by: SixthAngel on June 11, 2006, 06:17:21 AM
Quote
I bet you believed Nintendo when they said the DS was the "Third Pillar"
You still believe the marketing BS about wanting all the old style games on the Wii.
Look at the DS, they have 3d games that can be played on it but no analog stick (stangely I'm far better at mario with the touch pad). Wii will be the same way because it will make you play any old style games with a new input device. The only thing the new controller really lacks is a second analog stick and I would be disapointed if a game ever used that instead of the motion sensing. Not including the other controller does not "split the market" because the market they want is not the people who want to play games with the standard controller. It will be bought as a first system because of the controller and as a second system of the controller. The controller is the selling point and anything that takes away from that is bad.
Lower the price of the system instead of bundling something in that a lot of people won't want.
I just remembered that the creator of SSBB said that people should keep their GC controllers implying that there will be no standard controller like it for the Wii.
Post by: Kairon on June 11, 2006, 11:20:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Did anyone else notice that in the Drummer thing that all the Wiimotes shown had no nunchuku but had a cord just sort of dangling down?
You mean the wrist-straps?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 11, 2006, 01:32:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngelQuote
I bet you believed Nintendo when they said the DS was the "Third Pillar"
You still believe the marketing BS about wanting all the old style games on the Wii.
Look at the DS, they have 3d games that can be played on it but no analog stick (stangely I'm far better at mario with the touch pad). Wii will be the same way because it will make you play any old style games with a new input device. The only thing the new controller really lacks is a second analog stick and I would be disapointed if a game ever used that instead of the motion sensing. Not including the other controller does not "split the market" because the market they want is not the people who want to play games with the standard controller. It will be bought as a first system because of the controller and as a second system of the controller. The controller is the selling point and anything that takes away from that is bad.
Lower the price of the system instead of bundling something in that a lot of people won't want.
I just remembered that the creator of SSBB said that people should keep their GC controllers implying that there will be no standard controller like it for the Wii.
You assume too much when you think people will want to play Snes games with a Wiimote, or have old GC controllers to play brawl with, which is why the Classic controller is a must.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 11, 2006, 01:40:35 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2006, 02:00:38 PM
There's the real reason not to bundle it. It's broken for playing Smash.
I'm fairly sure Nintendo already stated that the GCN controller could not be used to play Wii games. Just GCN games. It was a while back. I'll have to find an article.
Post by: decoyman on June 11, 2006, 03:38:56 PM
A game which uses a traditional pad shouldn't be turned away because it doesn't take advantage of the Wiimote. As BMFrosty has said (and many others before), Nintendo is an "AND" company.
I'm not saying it'll happen for sure, but I see one choice rising above the others: Pack in the Classic controller with the Wii.
P.S. - As people who have actually held the controller keep saying, the analog stick placement is fine (although I think Pro was joking, at least a little
).
Post by: SixthAngel on June 11, 2006, 04:35:55 PM
Everything can be done with remote and nunchuk so there is no reason to pack this in. If someone wants to play a racing game with a steering wheel they buy it, if someone wants to play street fighter with an arcade stick they buy it, and if someone wants to play games with an old school controller they will have to buy it.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 11, 2006, 05:38:38 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2006, 06:13:18 PM
Post by: bmfrosty on June 11, 2006, 07:11:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
[
I...can see what you're saying...Hmmm... What exactly leads you to believe that this is their true objective as opposed to their stated-marketting speak being representative of their true objective?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I believe so because Nintendo's market isn't made up entirely of people who don't currently play games. It also has to include people who currently play games for the strategy to make sense.
As much as the guys and gals at Nintendo would like it to be, the wiimote and nun-chuck do not cover all the popular game types. I'm positive that since they're releasing a controller that represents what to now has been THE standard for game controllers, they're not going to split their market for what would be a small percentage cost increase on the package. I can't see the materials and manufacturing cost on the ClassiCon being outside the $6-$8 per unit range.
It just doesn't make sense for them to not hedge their bets this way.
-bmfrosty (bmfrosty@catbus.org)
Post by: Kairon on June 11, 2006, 07:39:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrostyQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
[
I...can see what you're saying...Hmmm... What exactly leads you to believe that this is their true objective as opposed to their stated-marketting speak being representative of their true objective?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I believe so because Nintendo's market isn't made up entirely of people who don't currently play games. It also has to include people who currently play games for the strategy to make sense.
As much as the guys and gals at Nintendo would like it to be, the wiimote and nun-chuck do not cover all the popular game types. I'm positive that since they're releasing a controller that represents what to now has been THE standard for game controllers, they're not going to split their market for what would be a small percentage cost increase on the package. I can't see the materials and manufacturing cost on the ClassiCon being outside the $6-$8 per unit range.
It just doesn't make sense for them to not hedge their bets this way.
-bmfrosty (bmfrosty@catbus.org)
But the GC lacked fighting games and any serious RPG support, any significant FPS support, and all that jazz. The N64 lacked entire reams of the gaming catalog and still fans bought it. Nintendo's existing market is made up of people who love Nintendo games, not any specific genre of controller specific gameplay.
And with Metroid Prime 3 at launch and Super Mario Galaxy on the way, I think that Nintendo has it's "existing" market covered just fine with the nun-chuck-wiimote control. Heck, SSB:B will probably be playabvle with Wiimote and chuck, with the option of using other controllers just as neat little extras included.
Bmfrosty, they've already hedged their bets: they've got Mario and Metroid already on the way using the Wiimote-and-nunchuck. The traditional crowd is being catered without need for the Wii Classic.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on June 11, 2006, 08:06:01 PM
QuoteAny support is welcomed. You have to take into consideration that shelf space is extremely important - I want all the ports we can get..
Personally if I was Nintendo I avoid ports like the plague. If this generation is any indication, they won't sell and crowd out good original titles.
QuoteThe percentage who are actually paying to play online is much lower than that..
Even on the XBoxes, where online is arguably there #1 feature and requirements are lower then the Wii's, a good percentage of the XBox community is still not online. (A quick Google search brings up 50%)
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 11, 2006, 08:18:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: bmfrostyQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
[
I...can see what you're saying...Hmmm... What exactly leads you to believe that this is their true objective as opposed to their stated-marketting speak being representative of their true objective?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I believe so because Nintendo's market isn't made up entirely of people who don't currently play games. It also has to include people who currently play games for the strategy to make sense.
As much as the guys and gals at Nintendo would like it to be, the wiimote and nun-chuck do not cover all the popular game types. I'm positive that since they're releasing a controller that represents what to now has been THE standard for game controllers, they're not going to split their market for what would be a small percentage cost increase on the package. I can't see the materials and manufacturing cost on the ClassiCon being outside the $6-$8 per unit range.
It just doesn't make sense for them to not hedge their bets this way.
-bmfrosty (bmfrosty@catbus.org)
But the GC lacked fighting games and any serious RPG support, any significant FPS support, and all that jazz. The N64 lacked entire reams of the gaming catalog and still fans bought it. Nintendo's existing market is made up of people who love Nintendo games, not any specific genre of controller specific gameplay.
And with Metroid Prime 3 at launch and Super Mario Galaxy on the way, I think that Nintendo has it's "existing" market covered just fine with the nun-chuck-wiimote control. Heck, SSB:B will probably be playabvle with Wiimote and chuck, with the option of using other controllers just as neat little extras included.
Bmfrosty, they've already hedged their bets: they've got Mario and Metroid already on the way using the Wiimote-and-nunchuck. The traditional crowd is being catered without need for the Wii Classic.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
What's wrong with expanding it even further, the reason the N64 and GCN were not top sellers were because of a lack of games, if including the classice controller expands their lbrary then its smart to have it included.
Post by: bmfrosty on June 11, 2006, 09:02:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Bmfrosty, they've already hedged their bets: they've got Mario and Metroid already on the way using the Wiimote-and-nunchuck. The traditional crowd is being catered without need for the Wii Classic.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
We both have our opinions on the matter. I propose a wager. $1. Via Paypal. Payable upon the announcement of available packages.
-bmfrosty (bmfrosty@catbus.org)
Post by: Kairon on June 12, 2006, 06:58:57 AM
Don't you see that this is bigger than that, man! The TRUTH is on the line! The Truth! How can you think about money at a time like this, for veracity's sake!
&P
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: bmfrosty on June 12, 2006, 10:07:50 PM
-bmfrosty (3 point to whoever can tell me the origin of my handle)
Post by: UniversalJuan on June 13, 2006, 03:38:47 AM
On topic, sold at a loss yu say? Yeah...$199 price point with some nice extras inside or $249 for like a Wii and a hooker.
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 05:20:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UniversalJuan...$249 for like a Wii and a hooker.
GTA3 Crowd here we come. In other breaking news everyone at the ESRB has recieved pensions for an excess of 1 Million dollars.
Post by: EasyCure on June 13, 2006, 06:17:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shorty McNostril
I do hope they release at least a kickpedal button you keep on the floor (ming you a real style kickpedal would be nice) if they release this drumming game. It would feel real if you didn't have one in my opinion.
And if they wanted to give us a real challenge a pedal for the high hats as well. But i doubt that would happen.
All optional settings of course. It wouldn't really be fair if it was required.
Anyway i'm right off topic so....
i like this topic better
. having one or two pedals to make th is a full fledged drum sim would be awesome. i've always been a fan of drums but i simply cant have them in my apt. for lack of space, so a virtual drumkit on a music game would be awesome. though in all honesty i wouldnt get my hopes for a pedal attachment of some sort. say that a WiiMusic game was in the works, and was a package like WiiSports; load up the game and you can pick either Wii Orchestra or WiiRock, etc. if it were such a game, nintendo would keep it as simple as possible, which means no peripherals. its kind of sad though...imagine how cool it would be to have a game like that, where you can sit behind a virtual drum kit and have everything you need right in front of you on you tv, even pedals to work a bass drum. you could go into a "jam mode" type of scenario where you play as much as you want, have a mode similar to donkey konga where you keep the rythem of a song (most likely not licensed), and the best one yet... a timed recording mode. you can set the time and play whatever you like, and save the track to a memory/sd card. then you go back into the WiiRocks menu and pick another instrument of choice and record that, then play producer and mix a track yourself and share it with your friends on the WiiConnect24 service. that would be my dream game, all the mario's, zelda's and metroid games in the world wouldnt get me off of it.
the only thing is, i dont know how playing a guitar, bass or maybe even piano/keyboards would work using the Wiimote and/or nunchuk. i can always dream of such a game though ....
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 06:32:46 AM
Post by: EasyCure on June 13, 2006, 06:38:28 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 06:54:25 AM
Post by: EasyCure on June 13, 2006, 06:58:21 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2006, 09:54:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: bmfrosty
Kairon doesn't believe in the position he's taken.
-bmfrosty (3 point to whoever can tell me the origin of my handle)
"Virtue is it's own reward"
- "Good" Calvin
Calvin & Hobbes
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Jensen on June 20, 2006, 04:13:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But the Drum Demo featured a full range of drums, with cymbals even!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Just saw another video of the drum demo game. To strike a cymbal, you just hold down the B-triggers while making the same motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GowYMwvicTU
Post by: Ceric on June 20, 2006, 04:16:58 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 20, 2006, 05:34:59 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
