Post by: ruby_onix on June 03, 2006, 09:46:02 PM
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"We've had a positive reaction to the controller and obviously some people have asked if it's a last minute thing," Sony's European boss, David Reeves, told trade paper MCV. "It's not - it's been planned for around two and a half years."
So then, what was the Bananarang? A red herring?
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"If you have a device that includes 50 or 55 patents, you can't reveal it, as someone will try to file a patent to stop it. We have already had some positive feedback on it from publishers."
So they didn't tell us about the Dual Shake because they didn't want someone to steal it, LOLZ.
Also probably an attempted jab against Immersion. Hey Sony? Where's your rumble?
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"The name of the game is not market share, it's how fast we can grow the industry - our ambition is to grow 15 per cent a year on hardware and software if we can," Reeves told MCV.
"We want to try and double digital entertainment in the next five to six years. Whether we have 40, 50, or 60 per cent market share is not that important."
Sony's trying to steal the non-gamers now. LOLZ.
And with a $600 PS3, they're gonna be really lucky if they end up with 40% marketshare, even if the non-gamers don't show up in droves on the Wii like Iwata thinks.
Edit: Looking at the math, Sony wants to double the industry over the course of the next gen, and then they want 50% of it. Which means they don't expect anyone to buy the PS3. They aren't as dumb as they look.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 03, 2006, 10:42:17 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 03, 2006, 11:47:55 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on June 04, 2006, 01:07:27 AM
And gyros and non-gamers have everything to do with the Wii.
Post by: Ymeegod on June 04, 2006, 02:54:20 AM
As for the market share--why wouldn't sony be increasing? It's that the whole idea of a business? You claim bloody-murder but you're basicially looking for an excuse to attack sony which sounds like nothing more than a rant.
Post by: TMW on June 04, 2006, 09:09:23 AM
Like the fact Kutaragi sold his soul and a majority stock of Sony to Satan, who now orchestrates company policy.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2006, 09:16:53 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on June 04, 2006, 09:50:06 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 04, 2006, 11:46:26 AM
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 04, 2006, 11:47:15 AM
yeah, like I'll believe that...
sony must die, seriously.....
Post by: mantidor on June 05, 2006, 04:36:44 AM
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Originally posted by: Ceric
The tech there using is old hat. Just admit it everyone. No reason to go up in arms about it. It's more all the stupid things that Sony keeps saying. Sometimes you think they were ran by our dear Senate and President here in the US. (That's right Sony will soon start paying Nintendo employees more than there own and give them benefits.)
Its not the technology itself, but the idea. Nintendo isnt really a technology company, they just use what exist already to implement it in games. But sony being an actual technology company with millions of dollars invested in research in the electronic field makes it even more tacky the steal of ideas from Nintendo. Again, not the technology, but the idea to implement it in games. The most groundbreaking console can arguably be said to be the NES, which from a pure technical standpoint wasn't innovative at all.
Post by: ThePerm on June 05, 2006, 08:28:33 AM
Post by: Ages on June 05, 2006, 09:01:10 AM
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Originally posted by: ThePerm
also then theres sony talking about how dual shock set the standard for controllers...and im thinking...yeah take a super nintendo controller and put n64 joysticks on it
don't forget to add extra shoulders! if 2 is good, 4 must be fan-frickin-tastic!
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 05, 2006, 09:58:10 AM
Post by: Donutt007 on June 06, 2006, 08:43:21 AM
Long time coming
I still don't get it, if it was two years in the making why the hell make the batarang prototype?
Post by: 18 Days on June 06, 2006, 08:54:11 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 06, 2006, 09:24:28 AM
QuoteThe PS3 WILL expand the market into the home of those who want a "cheap" Blu-ray player but don't necessarily play games BUT it will also shrink their MARKET SHARE.
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
A $600 console will not expand the market. It will SHRINK the market.
Post by: Ymeegod on June 10, 2006, 03:42:16 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on June 10, 2006, 03:54:03 PM
Post by: Ymeegod on June 10, 2006, 05:14:35 PM
But nintendo wasn't the first. PS2 was out long before the Q which was third party anyhow, atari had backwards compatible long before the GBC, as for online support--sega was the first ones to really push the issue for console, N-gage gets the nad for online portable gaming. And built-in harddrive/flash memory is alot more than mere saves--it's where you're going have all your downloads stored and MS was the first console to make that a standard (which is kinda funny since the 360 did away with it).
Post by: IceCold on June 10, 2006, 05:37:48 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 10, 2006, 05:57:29 PM
Quoteinteresting...
Originally posted by: Ymeegod
Yeah, MS published Motocross Maddness that came bundled with the freestyle pro long time ago. What's funny is everyone attacks Sony but totally overlook the fact nintendo's stealing ideas as well *cough* built in dvd, dual usb ports, backswards playable, built in storage, online, downloadl loadable games/demo *cough*--just to point out a few.
- the cube uses DVD media, but if your point is about playing different formats, then everyone ripped the SegaCD/3DO/CD-i....
- yep, although I would take USB over custom ports anyday... (and it's not like the PS2 put them under heavy use either...)
- Atari was the first one, certanly, but Nintendo has been doing for years with the GB, and is the one who will benefit the most in the console area...
- if I'm not mistaken the SegaCD and Saturn had internal storage, the 64DD had some as well IIRC
- never heard of X-Band?
- interesting, because the one who did that first was Nintendo with the Satellaview (and later the 64DD)
on a side note, these things that Nintendo "stole" are extremely minimal compared to the things they've brought to the table
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2006, 06:07:29 PM
Just goes to show that it's not who's first that's important, it's who gets it RIGHT.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 10, 2006, 10:09:51 PM
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Originally posted by: Ymeegod
Yeah, MS published Motocross Maddness that came bundled with the freestyle pro long time ago. What's funny is everyone attacks Sony but totally overlook the fact nintendo's stealing ideas as well *cough* built in dvd, dual usb ports, backswards playable, built in storage, online, downloadl loadable games/demo *cough*--just to point out a few.
Really few of those examples have impacted or changed gaming much, I think people when referencing Sony "stealing" is that they steal ideas that truly do push gaming forward without coming up with their own. I don't count taking stuff that was already common on PC and putting them into a console, to be anything brilliant. What has Sony or MS really done to innovate gaming interaction? About the only thing I can think of is putting an extra digital stick on their controller, which was "borrowed" from N64 in the first place. Pertaining to backward's capabilities,the reason for that is because it was quite easy to implement due to CD/DVD, and like someone else said GBC had backwards capabilities. I also believe that the Famicom also let you download games online, so once again Nintendo didn't steal that. Not sure about the built in storage, though, so maybe out of the original list Nintendo "stole" built in DVD, dual USB ports and built in storage. All of which were instrumental in changing or revolutionizing how we play game, right?
Post by: Ymeegod on June 24, 2006, 02:31:35 PM
You guys are missing the point so let me make it clear--you can't scream at sony for borrowing ideas when nintendo done alot of it in the past and future.
Post by: Deguello on June 24, 2006, 02:45:16 PM
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Originally posted by: Ymeegod
What about the Eyetoy, which won innovation awards or MS's Live feature?
Would you mind explaining this part a little more clearly?
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 24, 2006, 02:53:25 PM
Post by: Ymeegod on June 24, 2006, 03:13:35 PM
Ok let's take this agruement back 20 years ago when the famicom was first introduced. Yes it's the first console with D-pad but was it the first one to use buttons? Nope. Where they the first ones to use carts? Nope. Nintendo couldn't have gotten where it is today if it didn't use the competition technology.
Post by: Kairon on June 24, 2006, 03:19:56 PM
It's like making fun of Al Gore in a way with that whole internet thing. <-- which..turns out to be sorta true upon further research
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on June 24, 2006, 03:41:59 PM
Sony was content with their situation until Nintendo showed off what the Wii could really do. eNow they are nervous, and what do people do when they get nervous? Look at what the person who isn't nervous is doing, and go from there.
You see -- They weren't going to use the technology until someone else made it look like a good idea. That's the difference. That's a huge difference.
It's one thing to borrow ideas from other companies to further evovle your field (what Nintendo is doing), but it's another thing to borrow an idea simply because you feel you might lose out from not supporting (what Sony is doing).
Post by: King of Twitch on June 24, 2006, 03:58:08 PM
Would nintendo be blamed for copying if they had added a second Z button and clicks to the sticks for the cube controller like they should've done?
Post by: Deguello on June 24, 2006, 04:11:32 PM
Nintendo goes up and performs a dazzling magic show filled with awe and euphoria and whatnot. Nintendo's act featured quite a few new tricks and an interesting way of audience participation. Nintendo had been working on and hyping up this magic show for a long time and boy did it pay off. The crowd is ecstatic.
Sony comes on stage next and does a poor imitation of Nintendo's act that he just got finished performing. Sony was slated to perform a metal cover of Climax Blues Band's "Couldn't Get it Right" but mysteriously has a change of heart right before his turn comes up. All of a sudden he's doing magic tricks as well, and poorly. He gets one or two off by chance, but he mostly fails at each one. The crowd rightfully jeers at his lack of originality and scorn his decision to so flagrantly copy Nintendo, who had been working hard the last few months getting his act just right. Sony claims to have been working on this act for months as well, but the crowd also dismisses this because it was performed so poorly.
Neither of the contestants invented magic shows. However, Contestant Nintendo ghets high marks for pulling off a well-done shows featuring new tricks and a new method of magic. Sony gets low marks for altering his original plan to include the very same magic tricks that Nintendo just did 15 minutes ago, without aleration, and does them so poorly, that people do not notice his backup band carrying out his original plan.
The timing is the thing. It's fun to point out Nintendo had the whole idea of Camera-based games in the form of the Game Boy Camera before Sony did, but in the big scheme of things is doesn't matter very much. Nintendo pun plates in a talent show 6 years ago, Sony spun plates at a talent show 1 year ago. No biggie.
But when Sony has been heaping trash by calling Nintendo's show last year sparkling innovation (DS) while they did more of the same (PSP), and Nintendo left unfazed and continued in the same direction (controller innovation), it certainly does look bad that all of a sudden Innovation is on Sony's docket after a whole year of chiding it in the handheld sector. The timing there was awful.
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 24, 2006, 04:38:27 PM
^^
Post by: Ymeegod on June 24, 2006, 05:14:22 PM
Did you even own a GBC camera? Don't recall it being used to play any games--it was just a quick video camera where you can edit pics. Wasn't used as much else.
The eyetoy was the first to capture live motion video into movements for your character. The Eyetoy also sold a couple million units which sparked the whole "get off the couch" crowd.
Clearly can't say Sony jumping the bandwagon since it's the first ones on. Eyetoy 2 was going be a standard feature for the PS3 and that was announced prior to nintendo's controller TGS showing.
Post by: mantidor on June 24, 2006, 05:29:35 PM
Post by: Requiem on June 24, 2006, 05:32:06 PM
But seriously, you took ONE little flaw out of a beautifully written post and decided to scold it.
Look at the bigger picture next time. He completely destroys all your debatable points.
Post by: Kairon on June 24, 2006, 05:35:28 PM
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Originally posted by: Ymeegod
The eyetoy was the first to capture live motion video into movements for your character.
Technically incorrect... Eyetoy functionality, like analog control and rumble feedback existed on PCs before console systems.
This just goes to show that it does NOT matter who did something first, but instead who did something first right. That's Sony for CDs and camera-controls on home game consoles, MS for console online connectivity, Konami for beat-based music games, and Nintendo for analog, cross pads, force feedback, motion sensitivity and hopefully pointer functionality. (and countless other small innovations like shoulder buttons, button configurations, lock-on systems, game saves in consoles, and the first true solid approach for third-person 3D gameplay)
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on June 24, 2006, 05:51:35 PM
I also think Sony may have stuff like the EyeToy but they take no risks to make it worthwhile.
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2006, 08:38:35 PM
I agree. The abrupt change from what was originally unveiled and the bewilderment of everyone this close to launch over the new controller addition from Sony is what makes this different then borrowing and more in the stealing category. If Sony has a very Live! online model and not much more then I say at that point since it wasn't very abrupt and somewhat expected and good for the target market then yeah there just hitting the bar that MS has set. Making them average.
On the whole online thing. Live! is going to be the bar that all are measured by. MS did their job well. Sony knows this. Nintendo doesn't. It's pretty obvious. If it's not Japan then Nintendo has a hard time beleiving it. Also noting that. If MS went into Handhelds I think they ax the PSP but wouldn't phase Nintendo. Less market overlap. Always learn from others mistakes.
I agree the DDR is the original get off the couch game.
Post by: Deguello on June 24, 2006, 11:08:56 PM
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Did you even own a GBC camera? Don't recall it being used to play any games--it was just a quick video camera where you can edit pics. Wasn't used as much else.
Did YOU own a Gameboy Camera? It did have several games in it that incorporated the pictures that the player took, such as making you the boss of a space flying game or putting your face on the classic Game And Watch Game "Ball". It was quite an advanced concept to have in 1998 when it was released, and especially for the ORIGINAL gameboy,a dn there were well documented plans to have the player's picture's incorporated into N64 games through connectivity in games like PErfect Dark. That fell through, but the plans were there nonetheless. I'm not saying people should bow down to Nintendo for this particular piece, but it was something they pioneered.
Another weird thing is watching Sony even talk about connectivity in any form and the press not immediately throw rocks at them and write 89236492 editorials abotu hwo they have lost touch with gamers and whatnot. I mean Nintendo makes connectivity their big thing for several E3's and the press shat on them by basically saying "where's online? this sucks." Sony introduces the most shallow and useless function of connectivity ever (A $900 "rear-view mirror" for an F1 game) and everybody clams up. I dunno why that raised my ire.
Post by: Ceric on June 25, 2006, 05:12:31 AM
I think at the moment the editors are trying to carefully build the catapult for the nice size targets that Sony are setting up for them. You have to adjust those things you know. Between Nintendo and Sony come November someones getting seiged. Next year I'm almost positive we are going to get a ton of "What were they Thinking?" articles for both companies. Sony just knows how to grease the right fingers to hold out the real zingers.
Post by: TrueNerd on June 25, 2006, 08:36:42 PM
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Originally posted by: Artimus
I think DDR started the get off the couch movement.
...Which is the evolution of the Power Pad. And the Power Pad is probably the evolution of something else.
Stealing technology is one thing. This is no big deal as it happens all the time and will continue to happen forever. What Sony did was steal the IDEA and the CONCEPT of the Wiimote. This is a far greater offense. Harrison made some comment a few days after E3 that they had been trying to make a motion sensored controller, but they were waiting for it the tech to be there and for said tech to be affordable. But they had the idea for it 10 years ago. How is it that Sony, THE name in consumer electronics, was beaten to the punch by a video game only company, which is much smaller, with their own motion sensored controller? Wouldn't Sony have the resources to make that sh*t happen if they really wanted it to years ago? Plus, it's not even more capable device then the Wiimote, it's half-assed version. And if the PS3 controller had been in development for so long, why was there only one game at E3 that utilized the damn thing? The whole thing is so infuriating, especially in the same press conference they say sh*t like "We're not about cutting corners to rush a product to the market and we're certainly not about sparkling innovations. Next generation doesn't start until we say it does."
No, what Sony is about is making their fans bend over and raping them with expensive features that do nothing to enhance the gaming experience, which is fine with them as long as they win the hi-def movie format war. THAT'S what Sony is about. It's ridiculous.
I think I already said this...
In this thread...
Oh well, post count+1!
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on June 26, 2006, 11:41:13 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 26, 2006, 12:01:57 PM
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Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
Nintendo stole the idea to use electricity in the Game and Watch from Edison!
Lol, to be serious though I think this all boils down to how things are implemented. There is nothing wrong with taking existing technology and using it in new ways, but there is something wrong when you blatantly copy something innovative (pertaining to gameplay, not necessarily technology) with no shame whatsoever. Nintendo has an amazing track record when it comes to utilizing existing technology, creating a better gaming experience. Besides the 2nd analog stick, Sony doesn't even come close, heck their controller is still the same as it was back in the PS1 days, and it is obvious the "6 degrees of motion" is a blatant (yet poorly implemented) copy of Wii's controller. Nintendo has usually avoided blatant copying of their competitor, even the GC's controller (arguably the least innovative controller Nintendo has put out) tried to do something new with its button scheme.
What I want people do is look back at Sony, what have they really done that helped push gaming forward (don't give multimedia examples like a built in DVD player, because that does not benefit gaming) that was their own idea besides the basic graphic upgrade. Not a whole heck of alot besides the second analog stick, which is still not utilized much in games besides FPS. At least Microsoft tries to refine their controller, implemented a better way of storage and developed a brilliant, even innovative, way of playing online through their Xbox Live (which Sony is once again copying).
