Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 04:49:31 PM
Post by: Strell on May 08, 2006, 04:51:02 PM
Post by: cubist on May 08, 2006, 04:51:56 PM
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 04:52:02 PM
Post by: Strell on May 08, 2006, 04:52:52 PM
F*CK OFF SONY.
Post by: ruby_onix on May 08, 2006, 04:54:28 PM
Bananarang is gone. Dual Shock 3 is a wireless Dual Shock clone with ripped off Revmote functionality.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on May 08, 2006, 04:54:42 PM
Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 04:54:47 PM
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 04:56:25 PM
Post by: Requiem on May 08, 2006, 04:57:09 PM
That definitely put a damper on the situation....
Post by: trip1eX on May 08, 2006, 04:58:10 PM
OUch. It's funny to watch those bastards announce that functionality tho. They look like a bunch of slimeballs.
I think this hurts Nintendo, but then again maybe not as much as you'd think. There's no pointer in the controller at least and the PS3 is $499 for the 20gb model and will be $599 for the 60gb model. For someone just wanting to play a couple games $600 is alot if Nintendo launches at $200.
Post by: ruby_onix on May 08, 2006, 04:58:15 PM
Ditch the unpopular "Wii" name and go back to "Revolution". But write it in the Spiderman font.
Post by: Strell on May 08, 2006, 04:58:51 PM
Reggie needed to swing in on a rope dressed like a pirate AND a ninja and kick some ass at that time.
That's it. I'm not getting a PS3. This is bullsh*t to the highest degree.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 05:02:04 PM
Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 05:02:08 PM
Post by: cubist on May 08, 2006, 05:02:14 PM
Anyone think Nintendo can sue over this one???
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 08, 2006, 05:03:06 PM
They DID rip off Nintendo, but pathetically. It's just about the worst motion control ever, I doubt many games will be playable with that.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on May 08, 2006, 05:03:07 PM
Post by: Mario on May 08, 2006, 05:05:21 PM
Post by: Michael8983 on May 08, 2006, 05:07:48 PM
But is this really the same thing?
I mean does it simply detect rotation as opposed to 3D movement like the Wii's controller?
For that matter how functional will the controller be as one solid peice? The Wii-mote and analog attachment are seperate for a reason.
Still Sony should burn for this sh*t. It's possibly the most shameless rip-off in gaming history.
Post by: Ignorante on May 08, 2006, 05:09:31 PM
Post by: norebonomis on May 08, 2006, 05:10:07 PM
anyone know of a streaming video link online for this presentation?
Post by: cubist on May 08, 2006, 05:10:28 PM
Nintendo should break out that other secret with...we knew our competitors would try to steal our idea...that's why our other idea after suing them is owning them...
I haven't felt like a ranting fanboy in a while...and I'm usually composed, calm, and objective about things...but that's just plain wrong...what's worse is that the mainstream gamer is going to think Sony brought this controller out...hehehe...
I'll be at Sony's booth talking sh*t...
Post by: ruby_onix on May 08, 2006, 05:10:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
LMAO $500? they are insane.
PS3 = $600
PS3 Retard Pack = $500
Post by: Jensen on May 08, 2006, 05:13:07 PM
Post by: trip1eX on May 08, 2006, 05:14:01 PM
Wiimote at least has pointer functionality and each part of the controller has gyros.
I don't think this hurts Nintendo alot.
Nintendo already wasn't doing hi-def and they are coming it at a much lower pricepoint.
It's sad it's so easy for a company like Sony to copy them tho.
Post by: Jensen on May 08, 2006, 05:15:06 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 08, 2006, 05:16:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
LOL this only has 6 degrees of control. It's basically a joystick you can tard around with in the air, what a JOKE
I can't wait to see what devs actually do with this horrible form of "motion-control"...
Post by: cubist on May 08, 2006, 05:16:56 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 05:20:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onixQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
LMAO $500? they are insane.
PS3 = $600
PS3 Retard Pack = $500
hahaha, I didnt noticed... they are seriously retarded, that thing wont take off, its obvious that ms is going to lower the price and they get screwed, at least in NA. The interesting thing here is that both the wii and ps3 will launch at almost the same time, Nintendo better have a killer launch line up (from what we've seen, this is very likely).
Post by: Mario on May 08, 2006, 05:21:48 PM
Post by: BigJim on May 08, 2006, 05:22:42 PM
He looked like he was trying to dance like Napoleon Dynamite. It was ridiculous. He was shifting the controller all over the freaking place to do simple things on the screen.
It's a completely craptacular ripoff, but Sony fanboys will think they invented it or something. Ugh.
Post by: vudu on May 08, 2006, 05:22:58 PM
QuoteI don't think Nintendo can sue. IIRC, you can only patent the implementation, not the idea. So as long as Sony didn't copy Nintendo's method (which it doesn't appear they did) they're in the clear.
Originally posted by: Jin-X
I hope they get sued straight to hell.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on May 08, 2006, 05:23:40 PM
Mom - "$600!?! That's more than our monthly mortgage and car payments combined!"
Post by: Michael8983 on May 08, 2006, 05:24:51 PM
Some will but Nintendo is going to be a very tempting alternative with a price that will be at least half and probably even a third of it. Then you have to take into account that for the console to be really worth the cost, you need an HDTV to go along with it.
Sony got away with upping the standard price a little last generation but that was when it was the first out the door with a stranglehold on third-party support. Not to mention the addition of DVD playback which made the price jump more acceptable. Even the XBox didn't pull ahead of the Gamecube until MS packaged it with TWO free games.
Post by: jasonditz on May 08, 2006, 05:25:03 PM
Seriously though, the Wiimote sounds like a lot more than just a tilt sensor. Adding one to a current generation system seems like a fairly trivial idea (Nintendo's been putting those things in GB carts for years now) and I don't blame Sony one bit for jumping on that bandwagon (its what they do best).
They've still got a big problem though: actually they've got 600 big problems.
Two things they still have to fear:
1. Microsoft dropping the 360's price before the PS3 launches. $600 versus $400 is bad enough: if Microsoft decides to go all out and drop it to $300: how many people are really going to pay double for what appears to be an only incrementally better system?
2. Nintendo's Wii booth. If the Wii controller handles vastly superior to the PS3's (which seems very likely), it makes Sony look foolish.
In short, I think Sony's got a very tough sell here. Mainstream gamers aren't, despite appearances, total morons. The people who buy annual Madden editions are probably going to flock to either the Xbox 360 for a nearly identical game on a much cheaper system, or the Wii for the unique control system.
Oh well, at least I've narrowed my "what console to buy" question down to two. I'll be damned if I shell out $600 for a video game console.
Post by: capamerica on May 08, 2006, 05:25:18 PM
Man. The only thing that could get me more pissed off is to find out Nintendo didn't see this coming.
They better show off something freaken amazing tomorrow and change the name to something that isn't so wussy.
Post by: vudu on May 08, 2006, 05:25:47 PM
Quote
Well, let's see. They stole a bunch of crap from Nintendo, and they act like they came up with it. That's about all you need to know.
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 05:25:57 PM
i agree with mario. nintendo could very well be the market leader because their remote is the real deal not this put together at last minute crap that sony has just shown off. those prices are completely ludicrous and the second MS drops their prices, ps3 is screwed. that combined with their faux 3d controls making their games suck harder than they normaly would is going to make Wii much better by comparison.
i feel better now
Post by: OverHeat on May 08, 2006, 05:26:41 PM
But what I want to know is more important. Even though WE all know its gonna be crap, will everyone else? Or will Sony's marketing machine have everyone believing that their controller is "just like Nintendo's"? Remember, this was the company that had gamers pointing to FMV's and saying Playstation's graphics are AWESOME! Nintendo64 cant look like that! Then, enough people, interested in the concept, but not ready to buy ANOTHER video game system after the hefty chunk of change they dropped for their PS3, will try the Sony offering. It will suck, and they will think; "Man Nintendo IS stupid! I sure am glad I was able to try this crappy flash-in-the-pan concept on a machine that will offer more than just THAT." If you think about it, bad word of mouth on motion sensing in general could get in circulation if Sony does this right. I wonder... would it be financially worthwhile to them to do that on purpose? Try and sabotage Nintendo's bid to show a new gaming concept? Given how things are looking for them in Japan.....
Well, here is the thing. Nintendo can actually make this work to their advantage, but there is one critical thing they must do. Launch BEFORE PS3. If they can get the Wii out in early enough, word of mouth about the system will have already spread. Then, when the PS3 comes out and people play a subpar version, they will be even ANGRIER about dropping 600 bones on that system. On the other hand, if PS3 gets out first, or very, very close to Wii, it could be yet another uphill battle for Nintendo, one they probably didnt think they would face. People thinking their controller "doesnt work" without ever trying their controller. Of course, people will become familiar with the truth after a while, but by then it will already be too late. Stupid Sony....
Post by: denjet78 on May 08, 2006, 05:28:45 PM
From what I gather, it doesn't detect real-time 3D space, which is also why it doesn't need any extra hardware or sensors. It's just a gyro. Sure you can move it around, in an empty 3D relation to itself, but you can't do everything that you can do with the Wii controller.
There will be no sword fighting.
No cooking.
No Tennis.
None of the features that make the Wii controller so special. The technology just isn't there and that's because Sony only did what they thought they had to do in order to negate Nintendo's own innovations. The thing is, the PS3 controller is just a pale immitator.
I'm expecting everyone to jump on the bandwagon though and praise Sony for their intelligence and forthought. How they brought about the next great innovation in gaming. And of course all the Sony fanboys will eat it up and before long it'll be "common knowledge" that Nintendo ripped off Sony's idea. And don't even try to tell me that I'm overracting. I've met more than 1 Sony fanboy who clames Sony invented the anologue stick, shoulder buttons, rumble, and even 3D gaming all together! Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses.
So Nintendo isn't doomed but their's a good chance that Sony is going to be able to convince enough people that they're using the same idea to keep Nintendo from really making a dent. I really hope price turns out to be a factor but considering what Sony fans will lap up, I'm not betting on it.
Post by: Mario on May 08, 2006, 05:29:42 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on May 08, 2006, 05:30:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
LOL this only has 6 degrees of control. It's basically a joystick you can tard around with in the air, what a JOKE
It might be possible that they intended to say 6 axes of control. Up, down, left, right, forward, backward. Or maybe rolling in some directions.
We should probably be careful not to underestimate Sony. Plus even six degrees would still enable quite a lot, if used well. Of course, if all Sony has is a weak "box lifting demo" right now, and they're launching the system in November, then they most certainly won't have any quality uses of the feature until well after launch, if ever. But still, it's something they can boast about, and can probably shake some people's Rev hype.
Post by: Crimm on May 08, 2006, 05:30:39 PM
That's actually Hirai, because he had the best pic available. I tried to capture one from the stream of that grin, but I missed it.
Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 05:32:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteI don't think Nintendo can sue. IIRC, you can only patent the implementation, not the idea. So as long as Sony didn't copy Nintendo's method (which it doesn't appear they did) they're in the clear.
Originally posted by: Jin-X
I hope they get sued straight to hell.
Yeah I know, but we can still dream.
Today in courtTV, slimy c*nt a-holes Sony pathetically try to defend themselves, judge agrees, Nintendo pwned Sony.
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 08, 2006, 05:34:13 PM
This could be interesting for ports because it would mean that 3rd parties could possibly make PS3/Wii games that would not work on the XBox 360. On the other hand, the Wii's nunchuk alone has motion sensing comparable to the PS3's controller, so any PS3-->Wii port would still need either redone controlls or simply accepting that it would be underusing the Wii's controll abilities.
What interested me was the launch date: November 11(Japan)/17(US and Aus). It is not really surprising, but I expect that Nintendo will shoot for before the PS3's launch date, and probably by a couple weeks to distance themselves. Nov. 1 launch? Or Oct 26?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on May 08, 2006, 05:34:23 PM
Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 05:41:44 PM
Post by: Michael8983 on May 08, 2006, 05:43:40 PM
It's funny how people are always bitching about Nintendo supposable being paranoid and being too secretive.
They complained about Nintendo only showing the console and not the controller at E3 last year. Which is probably why they decided to reveal it at the TGS. Now look what's happened. If Nintendo had waited, this probably would have been avoided.
Post by: BigJim on May 08, 2006, 05:43:49 PM
Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 05:47:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Michael8983
Regardless of how inferior it is, this still sucks.
It's funny how people are always bitching about Nintendo supposable being paranoid and being too secretive.
They complained about Nintendo only showing the console and not the controller at E3 last year. Which is probably why they decided to reveal it at the TGS. Now look what's happened. If Nintendo had waited, this probably would have been avoided.
Yeah but they did the same with Sunshine like it was revolutionary, no pun intended, when it was clearly not. But now they'll become the most secretive organization in the history of mankind.
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 05:48:17 PM
if anyone else is going, i'll be the one with the F*CK $ONY tshirt on. i'll see you there
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 05:49:15 PM
Post by: cubist on May 08, 2006, 05:50:34 PM
I've gotten over the first stage of fanboy ranting...
Let's go Nintendo...don't come out tomorrow all mild and timid...come out with a game face and kick some ass...
Post by: ProtoNY on May 08, 2006, 05:50:46 PM
Sony basically put a feature out that would make them look like they are being innovative with minimal risk. I believe that with the minimal risk, comes minimal reward. They aren't going to gain any ports from Wii because the functionality of the PS3 controller is more primative. The only people who are going to lap it up are the fanboys - and they were going to buy the system no matter what. I think that they miss the mark when it comes to adding a feature that brings in someone who had not already made up their mind. Doubly so, considering the price point.
--Proto
Post by: slacker on May 08, 2006, 05:52:07 PM
Post by: Guitar Smasher on May 08, 2006, 05:54:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
This comes from UncleBob in PlanetChat: Wikipedia - PlayStation 3Quote
Well, let's see. They stole a bunch of crap from Nintendo, and they act like they came up with it. That's about all you need to know.
Link to an even better screencap I made.
Post by: Chode2234 on May 08, 2006, 05:55:27 PM
And to top it all off they blatently ripped off Nintendo. How will the fanbois live that one down. Sony is strugglin'. After watching and reading reaction to the press conference on Slashdot, I feel like I have just seen a house of cards come tumbling down with a gust of wind.
Post by: zakkiel on May 08, 2006, 05:55:29 PM
The conference opens, revealing IWATA-SAN at the podium while beside him, MIYAMOTO-SAN is playing Pilotwings with what appears to be... a giant dual-shock controller. He's trying to control it entirely by tilt and doing quite badly.
MIYAMOTO: Iwata-san, we're losing!
IWATA: What'ss wrongu, Miyamoto-san?
MIYAMOTO: We needu mow powuh!
As he speaks, REGGIE enters, seizes the dual-shock from his hands, and smashes it on the ground. It shatters, revealing inside: the Wiimote.
IWATA: Sank you, Mr Fils-Aimesu!
He takes the remote and begins performing dazzling feats of aerial prowess
REGGIE: No problem, Iwata-san. In addition to kicking ass and taking names, I'm all about taking out the trash.
Deafening applause.
Post by: Mario on May 08, 2006, 05:57:06 PM
Pursuant to the introduction of this new six-axis sensing system, the vibration
feature that is currently available on DUALSHOCK® and DUALSHOCK®2 controllers for PlayStation and PlayStation®2, will be removed from the new PS3 controller as vibration itself interferes with information detected by the sensor.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 08, 2006, 05:58:44 PM
That takes care of that nasty lawsuit issue now doesn't it. How convienient.
Post by: vudu on May 08, 2006, 05:59:20 PM
Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 06:00:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I think the casuals will have no clue about the gyroscope in the ps3 controller.
You can bet Sony is gonna tell them all about it in a lame ass attempt to steal Nintendo's thunder, of course we will all now the truth, its up Nintenso to show them the truth and how its done.
Post by: UncleBob on May 08, 2006, 06:01:38 PM
Post by: jasonditz on May 08, 2006, 06:01:52 PM
Sony managed two things in their conference
1. They conceded that the Wiimote is a good idea but made only a half-hearted attempt to replicate it.
2. They actually managed to make the Xbox 360 look cheap.
Post by: Shecky on May 08, 2006, 06:02:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
It just gets better, from the official Sony Japan site - http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/rele...f/060509be.pdf
Pursuant to the introduction of this new six-axis sensing system, the vibration
feature that is currently available on DUALSHOCK® and DUALSHOCK®2 controllers for PlayStation and PlayStation®2, will be removed from the new PS3 controller as vibration itself interferes with information detected by the sensor.
Lets see, developer is making a game using the tilt features, maybe they could not make the controller vibrate while there at it?... never mind a simple on/off switch on the controller.
Sounds like they're taking some heat from that lawsuit.
Edit: And then it's no wonder why it's lighter than the previous models. Can they even call it a Dual Shock? The shock is gone.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 06:03:50 PM
It still wont come down from $400.
Post by: BigJim on May 08, 2006, 06:04:13 PM
LOL, they're removing the rumble due to "interference" with the tilt sensors.
The small fanboy part of me that still exists imagines Reggie coming on stage, ripping off his shirt, and declaring "F*ck Sony and F*ck the Wii. THIS... IS... A REVOLUTION!!!"
All Mentions of Wii are crossed out on their show slides and "Revolution" is penned in above/below it.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 08, 2006, 06:04:17 PM
Looks like a pretty inferior rip-off and it probably won't make the slightest difference. Still this doesn't mean Nintendo instantly "wins" or anything like that. It's all about what games are actually made. It looks like Sony's first motion control game is ass. Fair enough but the "normal" games might be fantastic. Nintendo technically hasn't shown any games yet. They still have to prove that THEIR motion control is awesome with some killer games. We'll find that out tomorrow.
Sony's bigger problem is that price. F*ck that's steep.
I question why Nintendo revealed the remote so early though. They were afraid the idea would be stolen and that's EXACTLY what happened. But no they hid the speaker instead. Luckily Sony didn't do a good job of copying the idea but what if they had? Seems like Nintendo gambled on that one.
Post by: ProtoNY on May 08, 2006, 06:05:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: slacker
This just confirms how great Nintendo's controller is suppose to be. Even Sony is trying to blunt the momentum.
Don't forget that Nintendo is still in the pimp slot, too. I guarantee that Nintendo had vary strategies for tomorrow's presentation based upon what Sony did today.
Personally, I'd expect the following to be made crystal clear tomorrow:
1. The obviously lower pricepoint for Wii.
2. The earlier release date for Wii.
3. A "wow" item about the controller that Nintendo has kept out of the sights of the industry media.
4. A stronger than imagined showing of 3rd party support.
I would be surprised if Nintendo didn't drop more than a few bombs tomorrow. There are so many possibilities. Gamecube titles that disappeared without much fanfare instantly comes to mind.
What I would absolutely love to see is more of the love from Square Enix. If both titles announced are launch titles, they might already be planning something else. Just imagine if the rumored FFVII remake was actually coming to Wii. Talk about a major shakeup that would be!
I really don't think that Nintendo could blow this one if they tried. They are in a unique position that they have not found themselves in before at E3. They have a potential "killer app" in Wii, and they are holding all the cards. Tomorrow can't get here soon enough.
--Proto
Post by: ruby_onix on May 08, 2006, 06:05:50 PM
But I guess they don't ... *battery dies*
Post by: Mario on May 08, 2006, 06:08:13 PM
Did you guys all see the F1 PS3 PSP connectivity features? Hook up your $250 PSP and you get a REAR VIEW look at the race. Pressing L1 just isn't as exciting when you can look at all the action simultaniously on your PSP!
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 06:11:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
I suggest we relieve blood pressure for the next 14 hours by coming up with possible Nintendo responses. Here's mine:
The conference opens, revealing IWATA-SAN at the podium while beside him, MIYAMOTO-SAN is playing Pilotwings with what appears to be... a giant dual-shock controller. He's trying to control it entirely by tilt and doing quite badly.
MIYAMOTO: Iwata-san, we're losing!
IWATA: What'ss wrongu, Miyamoto-san?
MIYAMOTO: We needu mow powuh!
As he speaks, REGGIE enters, seizes the dual-shock from his hands, and smashes it on the ground. It shatters, revealing inside: the Wiimote.
IWATA: Sank you, Mr Fils-Aimesu!
He takes the remote and begins performing dazzling feats of aerial prowess
REGGIE: No problem, Iwata-san. In addition to kicking ass and taking names, I'm all about taking out the trash.
Deafening applause.
thats the best laugh i've had all day, thanks lol. i was ready to post a thought of reggie coming out in commando garb and not saying a damn word, just standing behind iwata and miyamoto as their "muscle"
no taking names, just mental notes of whom to take out first with the first ever machine gun-wiimote attachment!
he'll start blasting the non believers as iwata and miyamoto describe the different things the machine gun attachment will do. when he's out of ammo he'll pull out his Nintendo Bow that shoots Wii-arrows and uses the "big secret" feature of the remote; heat sensing!! Reggie will then let a barrage of heat seaking wii-arrows into the crowd as miyamoto smiles and iwata explains all the possibilities this could bring to gaming. (no need to worry about nintendo fans, they will all be seated by the air conditioning).
iwata: some of you have criticized our choice in naming our next revolutionary console. you have said that it is childish and immature. now with these innovative attachments, when a sony or ms fanboy point and laugh becuase you are playing with your "wii-wii" you can simply open up a can of whoop ass on them.
miyamoto: ::laughs and smiles::
Post by: lastexit on May 08, 2006, 06:15:07 PM
The key here is that Nintendo has disrupted Sony. Sony was forced to scramble and throw this together after Nintendo revealed the general concept (but not the product itself). The technology introduced in the Sony controller is completely different and only really helps with marketing, at best. It's a cheap knock-off, it's rushed, and it's very poor quality.
One of the things to undersand is that the Wiimote's "revolutionary" features are as dependant on software as anything else. The system was designed around the remote. Sony's last-minute-stuff-it-in-a-dual-shock is not going to feel natural or responsive. I'd be surprised if it's utilized in any signifcant away. Maybe a "frogger" game is coming for PS3 but NOTHING like what Nintendo has already let people see, play and brag about in the national press.
Sony is really treading water right now. Nintendo has to be feeling real good as Sony's attempts to copy have validated their idea.
Post by: The Omen on May 08, 2006, 06:16:25 PM
Post by: UncleBob on May 08, 2006, 06:17:19 PM
As he walks up to the the podium in the center of the stage, he taps the mic and says "Excuse me.. everyone, excuse me" and waits for everyone to get really quiet.
"Everyone. I'm sorry to announce that this Nintendo press conference has been cancelled. It seems to us that since our competitiors have taken our ideas and made them their own, there is no reason for us to exist as a competitor in the Video Game market place anymore. To this extent, Nintendo of America, Nintendo, Co, Ltd and all other Nintendo Partnerships around the world will be dissolved by the end of the day. Thank you for your time."
The he walks of the stage.
The end.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 06:21:14 PM
Post by: willie1234 on May 08, 2006, 06:22:49 PM
i have no idea what is meant by 6 degrees of freedom/axis whatever. what I saw in the demo was only xyz axis movement (actually, the flying seemed to me more focused to two planes). anyway, this didn't seem to do much more than a analogue stick already does.
most important was the LAG. from what I could gather in the video, the controller acted basically like an anologue stick in the sense that it only sends directional movement, ie lean this much, etc.
the wii controller, in contrast seems to be more like a mouse, in that it is sending location. a big difference, for anyone who likes first person shooters on the pc can attest. by sending location, the response is instant, you move (mouse/wiimote) accross space x units, and the character/gun/sword moves immediately. by contrast a joystick take s time, because it is not sending location, it is sending, "push the gun/sword/etc. x amount" and the result is you are accelerating more than you are directly moving. in the end the imersion is lost, and of course, tennis, cooking, fishing, drums, swords are impossible.
to me it looks like a cheap rip off as well, and I don't see too many games using it.
one last point. this looks to be worse than having done nothing in one sense. reviewers now have something to compare the two systems on where the wii will have a clear advantage. before today, sony and microsoft had a clear out in saying, 'power is more important, the wiimote is too radical for gamers'. now however, sony has validated nintendo, and every review will have mention of the fact that wii executes the control flawlessly while the new dual shock does not. it is a reverse of the previous situation, where every review of the wii would mention that cpu/gpu wise it was less powerful than the 360/ps3.
I predict nintendo pulling out a ds style win here. close match up in the us, with advantages world wide, and run away success building in japan.
Post by: willie1234 on May 08, 2006, 06:25:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Oh yeah, this isn't the only thing they copied poorly.
Did you guys all see the F1 PS3 PSP connectivity features? Hook up your $250 PSP and you get a REAR VIEW look at the race. Pressing L1 just isn't as exciting when you can look at all the action simultaniously on your PSP!
haha, I didn't miss that. $250 for a mirror. WOW!
I also didn't miss the "sound of one hand clapping" enthousiasm through out the entire preso. Sony looked like they were on their heals today.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 06:27:31 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 08, 2006, 06:30:45 PM
The funny thing is...Sony may not have copied Nintendo. They could have been planning this all along, but Nintendo beat them by designing an even better concept than Sony. And Nintendo showing it first really helped, by having everyone see it as Nintendo's innovation.
It will be fun to see everyone comparing Sony's system to Nintendo's not by graphics, but by control because they did this. They just pissed away there advantage of graphics because to the media it is now about which one controls better.
Stupid Sony.
You really are more arragont and pathetic than I could imagine.
I am finally glad Microsoft is in this battle. Between Nintendo and Microsoft Sony is not going to last.
Post by: vudu on May 08, 2006, 06:34:16 PM
QuoteNot a chance. Only Warhawk uses the tilt sensor so far. None of the other games shown. If this were planned all along, GTHD or RR7 would have used the function (at the very least). This is something Sony pulled out of their ass in response to the Wiimote.
The funny thing is...Sony may not have copied Nintendo. They could have been planning this all along, but Nintendo beat them by designing an even better concept than Sony. And Nintendo showing it first really helped, by having everyone see it as Nintendo's innovation.
EDIT: Remember, this is the company that has used the same basic remote for their past three home consoles and a very similar control setup for their portable attempt. They know nothing of innovation.
Post by: trip1eX on May 08, 2006, 06:35:25 PM
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 06:36:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
This is funny. I think this is going to look bad to everyone...and the press are not going to be excited about it.
The funny thing is...Sony may not have copied Nintendo. They could have been planning this all along, but Nintendo beat them by designing an even better concept than Sony. And Nintendo showing it first really helped, by having everyone see it as Nintendo's innovation.
i dont think so. nintendo has had gyroscopes in their portable games for awhile now, i think the first might of been a GBC title. it could of crossed their mind, even tested it, but realized it didnt add to the game. then later on thought up the full 3d motion sensing that they are using today.
This one is definately just sony's reaction to all the good press nintendo is getting based soley on their innovative new controler; not graphics processing and cpu power or any of that trivial stuff. if sony had been planning this for a longer amount of time, as in BEFORE nintendo showed off the wiimote then their efforts would of been greater than what was shown today. this is just something that was thrown together because they didnt think it (the wiimote) would be recieved as well as it has
Post by: joedick on May 08, 2006, 06:37:24 PM
Quote
I knew Nintendo was going to regret showing off the feature so early on.
I really don't think it would've made a difference when they revealed it. Long before Nintendo unveiled the controller, it was rumored that the 'revolutionary' aspect as motion detection/gyroscopes. That wasn't the shocking aspect of the controller, the fact that it was shaped like a remote was.
Sony was probably working on this long before the controller was unveiled, and were hanging on to it in case the rumors were true.
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 06:39:53 PM
they've always taken the "wait and see" approach before "innovating".
Post by: Jin-X on May 08, 2006, 06:42:22 PM
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 06:45:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jin-X
Its obvious that this is a lame rip-off. From the half-ass nature of it, to the rushed nature of it, hell they had to take out rumble. Of course some Sony fanboys will try to claim otherwise to what is as plain as night and day.
yeah and the sad part is, this could be the "straw that broke the camels back" for me. i'll have to stop trying to prove what sony ripped off and from who and instead do what reggie would do; punch them in the face
Post by: King of Twitch on May 08, 2006, 06:56:11 PM
Re-eunuch-mote. How pathetic.
Post by: wandering on May 08, 2006, 07:20:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Luckily Sony didn't do a good job of copying the idea but what if they had? Seems like Nintendo gambled on that one.
Oh, I doubt it. I'm sure Nintendo knew, that by the time they showed off the controller, it was too late for Sony to copy it in a timely manner. Nintendo's been working on this thing for a LONG time, developing the tech, working through lag issues, getting patents, working on games, etc.
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
I suggest we relieve blood pressure for the next 14 hours by coming up with possible Nintendo responses. Here's mine:
The conference opens, revealing IWATA-SAN at the podium while beside him, MIYAMOTO-SAN is playing Pilotwings with what appears to be... a giant dual-shock controller. He's trying to control it entirely by tilt and doing quite badly.
MIYAMOTO: Iwata-san, we're losing!
IWATA: What'ss wrongu, Miyamoto-san?
MIYAMOTO: We needu mow powuh!
ahahaha. That'd be great....though Nintendo will probably be too busy wowing everyone to bother taking out the trash...
Post by: jasonditz on May 08, 2006, 07:46:49 PM
I don't care about rumble personally, but if we've got it in either. they absolutely have to have Reggie stick it to Sony for claiming that it can't be done:
Post by: Griffin on May 08, 2006, 07:48:20 PM
...did I actually call it the "wiimote"? Crap. I've converted.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 07:48:42 PM
nunchuck I dont know, I think not.
Post by: The Omen on May 08, 2006, 07:50:08 PM
Post by: IceCold on May 08, 2006, 08:16:18 PM
Well, looks like Nintendo has achieved their goal of "disrupting the market"; perhaps in a way that they didn't even think. Imagine what's going on in Microsoft's camp right now..
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 08, 2006, 08:17:17 PM
I still stand by them. We don't know when Sony had the idea...or if they stole it from Nintendo.
They probably did. I think Sony is a bunch of pathetic weasels when it comes to stuff like that. I wouldn't mind stealing technology and innovation, that is going to happen, but don't pretend you aren't stealing it. And don't call the company's innovation you are copying a sparkling innovation. It shows very low class.
Post by: IceCold on May 08, 2006, 08:22:35 PM
QuoteHahahaha.. filters are your friend
And don't call the company's innovation you are copying a sparkling innovation
Post by: wandering on May 08, 2006, 08:23:19 PM
Quote
Does the Wiimote have rumble? Does the nunchuck attachment?
I believe Nintendo has confirmed rumble/feedback for both, yes.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 08, 2006, 08:23:28 PM
Sorry if it's already been posted. Just posting it before bed...
Post by: jasonditz on May 08, 2006, 08:30:44 PM
We've got two Square Enix launch titles, they're going to be lucky if they get one.
We're getting our own original Madden and Tony Hawk titles, they're going to have to settle for Xbox 360 ports.
What are the big things they got? Another Metal Gear that appears to play almost exactly like the last 3, and a racing game with a connectivity function that would've been embarrassing last generation.
Are we really supposed to believe that the mainstream is going to spend $600 on a console to play a $60 racing game using a $250 handheld as a mirror?
The conference tomorrow needs to be about Wii... what Wii offers...
Sony dropped the ball today... instead of pointing and laughing we just need to pick it up and head downfield.
Yay... football metaphor.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 08, 2006, 08:37:37 PM
Post by: Caliban on May 08, 2006, 08:52:05 PM
My current thoughts after reading many posts and information about the new PS3 controller "F-A-K-E-!" as in they are so arrogant of themselves that they think they have something better than Nintendo, even after their excuse to explain the lack of rumble?
I'm gonna have a blast answering to my friend's queries about the controller.
Btw, the HDMI thingy that is only available on the $600 model is for what, is it so it can play Blu-ray movies or does it have any other function?
Post by: Crimm on May 08, 2006, 08:53:18 PM
Post by: Crimm on May 08, 2006, 08:56:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Btw, the HDMI thingy that is only available on the $600 model is for what, is it so it can play Blu-ray movies or does it have any other function?
Here is how I understand it. It will still play Blu-Ray fine without HMDI out. However, the output wont be 1080i, it will be compressed.
Also, I was told the $500 PS3 doesn't have the slots for the other memory card types (Memory Stick, SD, Compact Flash). Is this true?
Post by: Zach on May 08, 2006, 09:01:46 PM
I posted some kind of funny reactions from the PS camp in the Other Systems section if you wanna check them out. I dont wanna post them again for what is the exact same thread.
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 08, 2006, 09:02:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz ...
Are we really supposed to believe that the mainstream is going to spend $600 on a console to play a $60 racing game using a $250 handheld as a mirror? ...
I don't really understand how that form of connectivity is going to work. Wouldn't you need someone to hold the PSP up at the right height for it to act as a mirror? I wouldn't want to have to look down at the seat next to me to check my rear view. What's wrong with holding L2 or something? It seems like having connectivity for connectivity's sake.
Regarding the alternate versions of PS3 is it right to assume the core version is not upgradeable to the premium model, that is, if there are missing ports and what not.
Post by: IceCold on May 08, 2006, 09:02:59 PM
QuoteAfter what, well, everyone has put Nintendo through, don't you think it's time for a little poetic justice?
Seriously... this is such a train wreck to begin with, it's almost spiteful to point it out.
Post by: jasonditz on May 08, 2006, 09:04:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CrimmQuote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Btw, the HDMI thingy that is only available on the $600 model is for what, is it so it can play Blu-ray movies or does it have any other function?
Here is how I understand it. It will still play Blu-Ray fine without HMDI out. However, the output wont be 1080i, it will be compressed.
Also, I was told the $500 PS3 doesn't have the slots for the other memory card types (Memory Stick, SD, Compact Flash). Is this true?
Yes, it's true. The $500 version will also be missing Wifi.
Post by: Caliban on May 08, 2006, 09:06:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
Here is how I understand it. It will still play Blu-Ray fine without HMDI out. However, the output wont be 1080i, it will be compressed.
The PS3 doesn't support 1080p? Then what's the point of getting a PS3 just to play Blu-ray?
Post by: jasonditz on May 08, 2006, 09:12:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CalibanQuote
Originally posted by: Crimm
Here is how I understand it. It will still play Blu-Ray fine without HMDI out. However, the output wont be 1080i, it will be compressed.
The PS3 doesn't support 1080p? Then what's the point of getting a PS3 just to play Blu-ray?
The $600 version supports 1080p, the $500 version does not.
Post by: Caliban on May 08, 2006, 09:14:05 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on May 08, 2006, 10:17:47 PM
Post by: TrueNerd on May 08, 2006, 10:38:04 PM
That's just the skeptic and cynic inside me talking. All Nintendo has to do is roll footage of Wii games that make the Warhawk demo look like ass, which is easily done, and they win. I just want it to be a BIG win. A no doubt about it blowout.
I also don't want Nintendo to mention Sony's press conference. They've been saying for an incredibly long time that they ain't competing with either Sony or Microsoft and to poke fun at Sony now would fly in the face of that.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 08, 2006, 11:31:06 PM
srsly tho, it's not that big a deal. We know they were toying around with the idea of motion sensing back in 2003. I don't doubt that the clincher for them was the popularity of the Wii controller, but since they obviously aren't trying to completely rip off the Wii controller, I don't think it's that big a deal. On the bright side, maybe this will make all those Sony fanwanks STFU about making fun of the Wii controller.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 08, 2006, 11:34:28 PM
Really, in a way I think this could really help Nintendo, not only is PS3 priced like gold, but I think many will find this attempt to be laughable, along with focusing more on Nintendo since it shows that there is something to Nintendo's Wii. I also believe this does show why Nintendo does fear revealing too much, this is the 2nd time they've been copied from an early revealing (the first being the digital stick). Luckily Sony didn't have much time to make good use of it, and it may have turned into a disaster! Now is the time, if any, for Nintendo to have a stellar E3 presentation, if they can do that I think that momentum will drive them to a very sucessful generation of gaming.
P.S. Why didn't Sony keep the boomerang remote? It would have made a great boomerang throwing simulation with their "innovative" motion sensor.
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 09, 2006, 12:47:31 AM
Quote
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Compatibility
Another aspect of compatibility is more problematic. Due to AACS copy protection, the Blu-ray players will only output HD content via HDMI and DVI-D connections, meaning that older HDTV models with Component, RGB D-Sub, and DVI-A inputs (currently, majority of HDTVs in US) will only display video at standard definition or not at all.
Post by: Rancid Planet on May 09, 2006, 01:49:17 AM
Should've seen this coming. I'm so stupid.
Post by: eljefe on May 09, 2006, 03:39:50 AM
but it doesn't even have rumble anymore
who wants this thing?
Post by: Cap on May 09, 2006, 03:46:36 AM
Post by: Magik on May 09, 2006, 05:11:06 AM
And to clear things up, Sony did not steal from Nintendo, they stole from Logitech and Microsoft. Logitech and Microsoft came out with a PC controller that is essentially what the Sony controller is.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 09, 2006, 05:20:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
I've thought about it some more, and I think Nintendo shouldn't even mention Sony's press conference. Seriously... this is such a train wreck to begin with, it's almost spiteful to point it out.
I completely agree. I think the old rule of thumb was never acknowledge that your competition exists unless you have to.
In this case, Nintendo is already light years ahead of their competition and doesn't need to do act like it has any competition at all.
Post by: Artimus on May 09, 2006, 05:56:52 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 09, 2006, 07:11:00 AM
Post by: SgtShiversBen on May 09, 2006, 07:13:12 AM
It could be worse though, it could have been actually BETTER than the Wii
Post by: Ian Sane on May 09, 2006, 07:14:25 AM
Holy doodle! He's a NON-GAMER!!
Post by: Requiem on May 09, 2006, 07:17:55 AM
This is very unlike the Wiimote in that it nows when you recenter it and when you hold it in an angle.
Basically it's this:
With the PS3, you can not turn forever unless you keep making the movement needed for you to turn.
With the Wii, you can turn forever by simple holding the controller in a turned position.
Nintendo 1 - Sone 0
Post by: EasyCure on May 09, 2006, 03:54:08 PM
Wiimote; 3d motion sensing capability; features rumble
playstation 3 sparkling innovation controller; tilts; lacks rumble because it would 'interfere' with the gyros.
HA!
Post by: Byron on May 09, 2006, 04:45:34 PM
Nintendo's hope with the controller was that more people would buy it's version of 3rd party games because the games would utilize the controller.
So with the sony controller tilt and twist function, instead of making games that take advantage of the Wii controller they just port the code for Sony's over and save money and time and so Sony kills a bird with this stone.
Post by: Dryden on May 11, 2006, 12:20:34 AM
Quote
I wonder if this will mean less innovative 3rd party games for the Wii?
Nintendo's hope with the controller was that more people would buy it's version of 3rd party games because the games would utilize the controller.
So with the sony controller tilt and twist function, instead of making games that take advantage of the Wii controller they just port the code for Sony's over and save money and time and so Sony kills a bird with this stone.
You know, I've thought a lot about this. But I don't take the pessimist view. Yes, this definately will mean less innovation from the 3rd parties, if they're designing with the PS3 in mind first and the Wii second (or third). However, it also means a lot less risk from a company to develop a Wii game.
Think about it: Sony just opened up the opportunity for developers to try out Nintendo's software. It's financially less risky to be able to port the game over to another system, even with much looser control. Any developers who looked at the Wii and said "Nope - too much money for too little return" has to rethink it now that the PS3 offers a bastardized version. If anything, the innovation may hurt - but the number of games produced for the Wii is going to increase.
Post by: Aussiedude on May 13, 2006, 06:14:10 PM
The Melbourne Sun newspaper in Australia had a report on E3, in it the stated that the PS3 has 3d control similar to Nintendo's.
However, the price revealled of $830($870? I lost the newspaper) for the basic PS3 system, and $1000 AUD for the full PS3 system is a shocker.
Post by: Jensen on May 13, 2006, 06:27:38 PM
Sure, the Sony controller can detect 6 axes of motion. But it can't detect each axis discreetly. It is 3 axis just like the Wiimote and Nunchuku.
Post by: Jin-X on May 13, 2006, 07:23:49 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 13, 2006, 08:06:31 PM
Post by: Hocotate on May 13, 2006, 10:45:50 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 13, 2006, 10:57:27 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on May 13, 2006, 11:04:54 PM
It seems to me like it will backfire and make people think about this type of control and thus gravitate towards Wii and bring playstation fans away.
Post by: Jensen on May 13, 2006, 11:05:12 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 13, 2006, 11:12:39 PM
Post by: Edfishy on May 14, 2006, 06:15:50 AM
Sony did this already with the crappy analogs on the PS1 controller. I can't tell you how many stupid people defended their PlayStation against the N64 with, "The PlayStation has analogs too!", and how many stupid consumers may have thought that the visually appealing analogs on the PS1 controller look like a more advanced joystick. This same argument will now insue with the PS3 and Wii.
Sony is a brilliant company, no doubt to that, they've just saved their butts. I bet their CEO's are breathing a sigh of relief today. After all, they can buy the Media Machine and convince everyone that they have something entirely unique to offer. For $600.
Post by: Ceric on May 14, 2006, 06:29:55 AM
PS3 just keeps looking like one of those expensive coffee makers. Also every press release I see from them they have to take a jab at either MS or Nintendo. I mean to be honest that happens. But everyone come on. Even if the PS3 was the same price as the Wii that sort of business practice turns me off. I would buy a 360 before a PS3 with a $250 price point.
Something else to mention. Every year Sony promises big things with the EyeToy and Shows these cool demos with it, this year was card game. Do these ever actually come into mainstream. No. They don't. It will be the same with the tilt feature. Only very specific games will use it.
Another point while I'm on my Soap Box. If Nintendo was serious about making it easy to make wireless peripherals for the Wii then I could see Guitar Hero and DDR moving over. Offering more Wii support.
Post by: zakkiel on May 14, 2006, 09:34:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
So Jensen, both can sense 3D motion depth?
Sony's can't sense orientation consistantly (hence, the Warhawk demo where the plane would return to nuetral while the controller was still angled). It uses accelerometers. The Wii uses accelerometers, IR tracking and judging by racing performance attitudinal sensors. (If it doesn't, it certainly should; you could make one basically with a pair of weighted analog sticks, so there's no excuse for not having one). The PS3 uses about the level of technology in the nunchuk attachment.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 14, 2006, 11:30:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
So Jensen, both can sense 3D motion depth?
Sony's can't sense orientation consistantly (hence, the Warhawk demo where the plane would return to nuetral while the controller was still angled). It uses accelerometers. The Wii uses accelerometers, IR tracking and judging by racing performance attitudinal sensors. (If it doesn't, it certainly should; you could make one basically with a pair of weighted analog sticks, so there's no excuse for not having one). The PS3 uses about the level of technology in the nunchuk attachment.
Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. Basically it sounds like the PS3 will use what people predicted Wii would use back before the Wii control was announced.
Post by: Jensen on May 14, 2006, 12:06:25 PM
QuoteIf you had read any articles about suppliers of Wii, you'd know that the nunchaku and Wiimote use very similar accelerometers (different companies, but similar functionality). The Wiimote also has a second, separate tracking system. It works sorta like an infrared optical mouse, but instead of tracking the texture of a surface, it tracks a couple of IR emitters on the sensor bar.
Originally posted by: zakkiel
The PS3 uses about the level of technology in the nunchaku attachment.
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=187201651&pgno=1&queryText=
Analog devices provides:
http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,ADXL330,00.html
STMicroelectronics probably uses
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/11669.pdf or
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/11668/lis3l02al.pdf
Post by: Kairon on June 02, 2006, 08:17:48 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Jin-X on June 02, 2006, 08:24:06 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 02, 2006, 09:11:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
the caption shoud say:
"Due the the advanced nature of this technology, usage of the L & R triggers have been removed"
