Post by: couchmonkey on April 21, 2006, 07:32:10 AM
Brandon (webmaster for Nintendorks) considers the rumour to be fairly reliable, and it seems like the kind of simple but cool addition Nintendo might see fit to keep secret...more reasonable than VR helmets and that sort of thing. Did Nintendorks' slacker attitude allow them to get the scoop the mainstream gaming media can't tell us about due to NDAs?
Post by: Strell on April 21, 2006, 07:44:56 AM
Probably would just have to try it out first....
Post by: Michael8983 on April 21, 2006, 07:51:46 AM
The only way I could see it happening is if it has a much more basic, cheaper sensor like the one Warioware Twisted. One that would only detect rotation. That way it could be used primarily to rotate the cam in 3D games which would leave the Rev-mote and buttons free.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 21, 2006, 07:53:42 AM
Post by: mantidor on April 21, 2006, 07:56:55 AM
I just want confirmation that the analog stick will be standard with the console, first Iwata says so in the TGS revealing of the controller, and then Harrison says they are not sure yet in the latest GI interview, make up your mind, Nintendo!!
Post by: couchmonkey on April 21, 2006, 08:02:28 AM
I admit the potential for two motion sensors is questionable, but keeping it a secret wouldn't hurt Nintendo and would give the company something extra to reveal later on, which is just what they seem to want. It's not just about confusing the competition, it's also about keeping the interest of consumers.
Post by: ThePerm on April 21, 2006, 08:06:37 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 08:07:37 AM
That isn't easy...it would be a complete mind trip on the brain...and I dunno if it would benefit.
I can see using the analog in one hand and the wand in the other. Or two wands.
But just imagine moving one hand in 3D space, while trying to move with the analog stick, and push buttons for actions all in one hand. THAT IS OVERKILL, and would defeat the purpose of being easy to control.
Post by: EasyCure on April 21, 2006, 08:21:43 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on April 21, 2006, 08:25:33 AM
Hey it's fun arguing in favour of something instead of against it for a change. I need to stop being such an Ian.
Post by: Kairon on April 21, 2006, 09:09:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
i would like to hear an official statement from MaryJane on this topic, if anyone would know a thing or two about mindblowing, im assuming they would.
THEY?!?!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KDR_11k on April 21, 2006, 10:09:03 AM
I agree.
Post by: trip1eX on April 21, 2006, 10:30:29 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 21, 2006, 11:20:25 AM
MY CAPS LOCK IS BROKEN
Okay, not really. But I wanted to stress my point.
Post by: joedick on April 21, 2006, 11:25:46 AM
Post by: vudu on April 21, 2006, 11:49:35 AM
Post by: EasyCure on April 21, 2006, 01:43:37 PM
i said "they" only because i wasnt sure if that user is male or female.
and to KDR_11k, thanks for agreeing with me
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 21, 2006, 01:49:04 PM
You want mind blowing? Try playing games with Left-stick aiming for 3 years (N64) then the next day play 007: Agent Under Fire which only allows aiming on the Right-stick.
That game made me more hostile and violent and increased the probability I would harm others in real life.
I slammed my door >=O
Post by: Svevan on April 21, 2006, 02:05:11 PM
Wait, why in the crap do we need to look with the nunchuk in a game like Red Steel? The function of the RevMote (right hand) in Red Steel is to look around. TWO look controls? Whatever. Calling bogus on this one.
Post by: joedick on April 21, 2006, 02:16:57 PM
Quote
Considering that they want to release the Revolution as a complete system, but they don't yet know if the nunchuk will be included with this "complete" package, I really really doubt that the major secret, a huge gameplay/control feature, would be tucked away in a sold separately peripheral. Not to mention it just sounds awkward.
Hasn't it been confirmed that the nunchuk will be included with the system?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 21, 2006, 02:31:49 PM
What's gonna happen to the camera when you start waving your melee weapons around, drawing X's? The path of your blade and your line-of-sight DON'T share the same kind of relationship as a firearm with your line-of-sight (provided you point at what you see).
If your sword was your camera, things would be WACKO and unplayable.
Either we take the roomur seriously, or start questioning why Red Steel's sword mechanics haven't been detailed to the same degree as the shooting mechanics (which are obvious).
Post by: AnyoneEB on April 21, 2006, 02:49:45 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 21, 2006, 03:03:08 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on April 21, 2006, 03:45:16 PM
Post by: Mario on April 21, 2006, 06:59:35 PM
Post by: wandering on April 22, 2006, 01:05:00 AM
Also, as soon as Sony copies Nintendo's controller you know they're going to go for dual motion control, so it would be nice to future proof against that.
Post by: Mario on April 22, 2006, 01:21:40 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 22, 2006, 10:21:54 AM
I think it would be just as easy to hold two Revmotes, one in each hand, and the D-pads on each would be used for movement, lateral movement on the left, looking on the right. You wouldn't have the same precision as an analogue stick, but the dream of "dual wielding" would be a reality for many.
Yeah, it uses 2 controllers to do this, but IMHO, 4 player split screen is horrible unless you have a colossal TV, and with everything being online, it'll be far less of an issue.
Post by: wandering on April 24, 2006, 08:18:13 PM
Post by: Ceric on April 25, 2006, 05:30:18 AM
As for the confirmation that the Nunchuku is going to be part of the controller bundle. I think that there has been no official confirmation but it has been strongly hinted at and implied that it is so. Every revmote will come witha companion Nunchuku. It was well received and I think Nintendo has sold that particular accesory well enough to make it the standard. You never really see the controller without it after the initial teaser.
Now the shell on the other hand. We all know that it has to come but Nintendo isn't giving any indication what-so-ever that its going to be included. I, personally, predict that it will not be part of the bundle. The Nunchuku was a concescion to developers already. If I was Nintendo I would beleive that bundling the shell would just be defeating the point of all those research dollars I spent on this new controller.
While I'm on the subject of peripherals. I do believe that seeing DDR at launch, even DDR: Mario Mix 2 (OMG a DDR with an actual good story mode :-O ), or Guitar Hero would be plausible. The Guitar and Dancepads would be wireless. You just plug the Revmote into the head of the Dance pad or the Shaft of the Guitar.
Post by: Athrun Zala on April 25, 2006, 02:07:36 PM
Quote
Using the Nintendo Revolution controller, players will be able to mimic signature moves as they are performed in the Dragon Ball Z animated series, such as Goku(R)'s Kamehameha, moving both hands to execute this devastating energy attack.
how would you use both hands if one is lacking the sensing device?
DBZ official announcement
Post by: Artimus on April 25, 2006, 02:16:30 PM
Post by: Jdub03 on April 25, 2006, 04:14:24 PM
Post by: Jdub03 on April 25, 2006, 04:28:16 PM
Basically the nunchaku attachment wont have the same motion sensing capabilities as the free hand. things like tilt to reload will be functions of the attachment.
__________________________________________
"Last week, a rumor hit the net claiming that the Nintendo Revolution’s nunchaku controller features a built-in acellerometer allowing it to sense it being tilted left or right, or being moved up, down, left, right and in a number of other directions as well.
Today, AMN has confirmed through a developer incredibly close to Nintendo that this rumor is in fact true. The nunchaku peripheral does feature this secondary function. However, we were also told that the nunchaku controller does not feature the same pointing and motion sensing abilities that allow the Revolution free-hand controller to be used like a “pointer” or “wand.”
One example we’ve come up to describe how this function will be useful in future software involves a first-person shooter, in which you use the free-hand controller to look around and aim, while you use the nunchaku controllers analog stick to move around and strafe. Most importantly, you’d be able to tilt the nunchaku controller to the left or right to reload your weapon.
More intriguing than all this, perhaps, our source told us that this “feature” of the nunchaku controller has been in their development kits since they first received them over six months ago. This raises the question, of course, is this the second big secret function of the Revolution controller? It could be. However, it’s odd that developers have had access to the feature and information all along, without ever being told to keep the information under wraps.
Nintendo Revolution will be in full playable form during the Electronic Entertainment Expo., which kicks off May 9, 2006 with Nintendo’s annual press briefing. AMN will be on hand at the event with full coverage"
http://revolution.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=6601
Note that the article says that the nunchuka WILL NOT have the same pointing capabilities of the remote, instead it will only sense tilting and probably motion sensing (up, down, forward, back, etc). But this is a good thing. Why? Because if it had the same pointing capabilities, it would just be too complicated to coordinate both hands! lol. Instead making simpler gestures with the nunchuka (pulling back, tilting) is far more acceptable and intuitive.
This makes sense for Red Steel. You tilt the nunchucka left and right to lean against walls, pull back on it to reload gun and push forward to push tables. So the remote will only be used to point, shoot, and twist to rotate the gun gangsta style, rather than reload with it and lean against walls with it (by twisting it) as was previosuly thought.
Curtesy of "flash man 2006"
______________________________
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 25, 2006, 04:33:53 PM
The freehand can't point directly at a particular part of the TV. It's all relative. This makes no sense.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 25, 2006, 04:42:35 PM
Post by: Strell on April 25, 2006, 06:12:34 PM
This can't possibly be the big secret Miyamoto said, right? I hate to say it, but Ian is dead on - this is hardly anything big at all.
I'm hoping it isn't.
I'm also thinking, as I said earlier, that this is overkill and makes the game possibly difficult to control.
I guess we'll see.
Post by: mantidor on April 25, 2006, 06:36:40 PM
Iwata however, said at GDC that theres still one "big" secret left for the revolution as a whole console, of course, I really doubt its this.
Post by: Kairon on April 25, 2006, 07:52:16 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: bustin98 on April 25, 2006, 07:59:35 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 25, 2006, 08:10:57 PM
Or if you care to throw your mind even deeper into the gutter, something much much more perverse?
Post by: Strell on April 25, 2006, 08:11:36 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 25, 2006, 08:15:50 PM
I see alot of unofficial 'AO' games that don't quite hit the public market if you know what I mean
. sold in shops that you have to be 18 to even enter, and you would probably be too ashamed to even buy the game for the fear of someone you know walking into the store at the exact wrong moment, recognizing you and then asking you what you're buying. Could be very embarassing, Niche market indeed. 30+ yr old house wives and mothers would be the target audience.
Post by: Strell on April 25, 2006, 08:20:30 PM
Good day, shopkeep! I'll have one of your finest adults only Revolution add-ons! And what the hell, a pack of Doublemint also.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 25, 2006, 09:09:23 PM
Doesn't it make you proud that fellow readers are going through puberty... they grow up so fast.
Anyway, this would be cool for double-controller games because you wouldn't necessarily need a second controller.
Post by: wandering on April 26, 2006, 12:45:30 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 26, 2006, 01:06:42 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on April 26, 2006, 01:07:41 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 26, 2006, 01:11:45 AM
What's complicated about notching your left hand's nunchuck to the left once to move to the next weapon or move through a menu?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on April 27, 2006, 07:00:59 AM
Post by: Athrun Zala on April 27, 2006, 08:48:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
I know I shouldn't be thinking this, but with dual motion sensing and possible dual rumble, does anyone see a sequel to Rez coming out?
Or if you care to throw your mind even deeper into the gutter, something much much more perverse?
interesting, but I can't see how a Rez2 would use the motion sensng in an original/innovative way :S....
Post by: couchmonkey on April 27, 2006, 01:24:54 PM
"GI: It's been rumored that the new big Revolution secret is the fact that the nun chuck controller is also motion detecting…
Atwood (Nintendo Rep): ...We’d say that if that’s the only secret you’re expecting you're going to be very surprised."
So it sounds like even if this is true, but there's still more to be revealed. Interesting!
Post by: Requiem on April 27, 2006, 01:30:56 PM
It's funny, you know.
I was right. My mockup I mean. I was right.
Two-part controller with motion sensing capabilities in BOTH.
Post by: couchmonkey on April 27, 2006, 01:35:56 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 27, 2006, 07:23:51 PM
It's a Wiimote Contwol
Post by: trip1eX on April 28, 2006, 04:55:30 PM
"IGN Wii: Does you use the trigger buttons on the nunchuck unit?
John Schappert: You know, the buttons are all still being mapped out. It does use the trigger buttons right now. I don't know how much we'll have locked in for you at E3 because we are still working on the final button layout, but it does use the trigger buttons, and it does use the accelerometer in the nunchuck unit as well for juking."
Seems like a reliable source to me. I have to say this is good for the hardcore crowd. It would seem to be a plus because it doesn't sound you wouldn't need that second remote for say a boxing game.
Also
"IGN Wii: Are you going to be using any force-feedback when you're throwing the ball or when you're getting hit, or anything like that?
John Schappert: Yes, we are. I think it's a little early to talk about how. "
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/703/703727p2.html
Post by: eljefe on April 28, 2006, 07:05:43 PM
Quote
IGN Wii: ...Could you just for clarification purposes give us an idea of how a typical play might work using the controllers?
John Schappert: So, you take the controller, jerk it up to snap. Quarterback now has the ball. Your passing icons are now up. Take the wand controller and you'll see that the four directions on its D-Pad represent four of your receivers; the A button is your fifth receiver. Point to one of those receivers that you want to receive the ball and with your hand gesture a throwing motion to pass. Now, the harder you throw, the more that's going to be a bullet pass. The softer and the more you lob a throw, the more that it's going to be a lob. When you receive the ball, you run with the analog stick on the nunchuck and if you want to juke, you use the nunchuck to gesture it. And if you want to stiff-arm, you use the wand.
Post by: trip1eX on April 28, 2006, 07:41:46 PM
However I was just reporting that this seemingly reliable interview (EA and IGN) revealed some new functionality of the remote and nunchuk that hasn't been reported before from a reliable source. I wasn't trying to highlight the various controls in Madden. That's why I put it in this thread. I did link the article tho
Post by: eljefe on April 28, 2006, 08:43:42 PM
no harm meant
this is one of the finest interviews
ever
you could really feel that guys enthusiasm for games, and Wii games in particular.
Post by: pudu on April 28, 2006, 11:30:16 PM
Post by: attackslug on April 29, 2006, 05:58:41 AM
Quick-dodging, jumping, ducking, and maybe even strafing can be taken care of all without the use of buttons.This truly can isolate all character movement to the nunchaku and all hand/viewpoint movement to the FHC.
I can't wait to see other, actually CREATIVE uses for the accelerometer functionality, but it seems that just like the entire nunchaku add-on, it was designed with western game design in mind.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 29, 2006, 06:46:27 AM
Post by: Artimus on April 29, 2006, 06:55:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
What on earth is an accelerometer? Whatever it is, it doesn't sound even remotely similar to "full 3D motion detection."
Besides being constantly rude, are you not familiar with Wikipedia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerometer
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 29, 2006, 07:26:24 AM
Post by: trip1eX on April 29, 2006, 09:07:56 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 29, 2006, 09:30:05 AM
I personally think the nunchuck can sense tilting and movement but it cannot record position as in the Wiimote.
Post by: trip1eX on April 29, 2006, 09:40:57 AM
Afawk the nunchuk doesn't have this ability to 'point' at the screen like a laser pointer.
Post by: pudu on April 29, 2006, 10:26:53 AM
From what I know about accelerometers, the analog attachment will be able to detect any type of acceleration (movement) in the attachment. I doubt, unless it has gyros, it won't be able to detect the orientation of the analog attachment (you could face it backward and it wouldn't matter). I wonder if they will include tilting sensors like in Kirby's Tilt and Roll to also record tilt? It wouldn't be as accurate as the remote obviously, but it would allow for some tilting recognition still. Even if it is "only" the accelerometer I won't mind because what they are doing is already pretty insane IMO.
Post by: Artimus on April 29, 2006, 10:46:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX
You aim the remote at the screen just like you would a gun or a laser pointer or a light gun. The sensor bar is needed to determine exactly where you are aiming on the screen. (It calculates position relative to the bar which is combined with the tilt positioning of your controller.) I'm sure there will be some kind of one-time calibration needed in order for the remote to work with your specific sized TV. Anyway that's what I mean by pointing technology.
No.
The game engine has a 0 point, this is where the controller begins. What it measures is movement. If moves in regards to the 0 point. The sensor bar doesn't ready where the wiimote is pointing, it reads motion. The difference between the nunchaku and the wiimote is that the nunchaku just reads in general, aka left, right up dow, whereas the wiimote can tell how far, how fast, etc (I'm sure the nunchaku can also read a fast vs. slow movement, though).
Post by: AnyoneEB on April 29, 2006, 12:31:14 PM
Post by: Jensen on April 29, 2006, 12:59:25 PM
You will be able to "point" with either device, just like you can point a Gyration mouse without a sensor bar.
I could be wrong on the specifics of how it works, but it seems that the nunchuck and Wiimote will sense rotation, but the Wiimote will know its XYZ position relative to the sensor bar
Post by: Artimus on April 29, 2006, 01:30:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: AnyoneEB
That does not make sense. I have mentioned this on the related talkback thread ( http://www.planetgamecube.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=15745&STARTPAGE=2 ). I agree that it sounds like nunchuk will not have position sensing, and therefore all of its reading will be relative to whatever the game engine decides is the zero-point (whenever the game starts/whenever a nunchuk using part of the game starts). On the other hand, Nintendo has mentioned the sensor bar and the ability to point at objects on the screen, implying the revmote has the capability for absolute position/tilt/roll/yaw sensing (absolute tilt/roll/yaw sensing might actually be done by a gyroscope instead). In order to do pointing (like in Red Steel), the revmote must be somehow calibrated to the TV. The sensor bar may have some way to do this automatically (light sensor/camera + flashing lights when rev turns on?), but it has to occur.
I'm 99.9% sure the sensor isn't sensing where on the TV the Wiimote is pointing. To do that you'd need variable sensor sizes, which makes no sense. There is no actual pointing ability like a laser pointer, I don't think. Like in RS you'd be move the crosshairs, and that's how you 'point'. I assume the slower you move the less the crosshairs move. Remember, some demos are taking place without the sensor bar, because the controller can sense the general motions by itself.
Though, really, no one actually knows how it works. On the WiiPodcast from IGN they discussed it briefly too, and no one knew exactly what it did. They talked as if it might have a wire though! Surely not. That would be a complete and utter disaster, and totally go against the point of a wireless. I guess we'll know soon?
Post by: The Omen on April 29, 2006, 01:54:30 PM
Quote
I'm 99.9% sure the sensor isn't sensing where on the TV the Wiimote is pointing.
I believe you are correct...too bad I can't recall from where I heard such a thing.
Post by: trip1eX on April 29, 2006, 04:50:44 PM
1up.com 9/15/05
"DEMO: BLOCK BUSTER
A firing-range-like contest where two players compete to see who can shoot randomly appearing squares first. Aiming is done by pointing the controller itself at different points on screen, pulling the B trigger to fire.
IMPRESSIONS: A great demonstration of how intuitive the controller can be-pointing it to aim felt perfectly natural, right from the very first second, just like with a light gun. It always shot exactly where it felt like I was aiming, and was incredibly responsive to even slight wrist movements-I barely had to move my hand at all."
GI Red Steel Ubisoft interview
"Aiming with the controller is as simple as using a laser pointer. You point your hand at a target and hit the trigger on the underside of the controller to fire "
Post by: Artimus on April 29, 2006, 05:09:37 PM
Post by: wandering on April 30, 2006, 04:34:51 AM
Anyway, as far as the thing in the nunchaku goes, I'm going to guess that it can sense tilting and maybe movement, but not absolute location. For example, if you moved the revmote...wiimote one inch to the left, and held it there, the rev...wii would know. But if you did the same with the nunchaku, it might know that you moved it to the left, but that's as much as it knows. So you couldn't use the nunchaku to control a cursor on the screen, or at least not very well.
Post by: Ceric on April 30, 2006, 04:53:57 AM
Also about the wire issue. From my recollection most of the working Controller prototypes out there are wired. The wireless ones are coming with last few iterations of the developer kits. I personally don't see the wireless being able to do squat without the the sensor bar. It just doesn't make since to not use the thing as the antenna for the whole system.
Post by: BigJim on April 30, 2006, 05:34:13 AM
The only consistency is the direct interaction with the sensor bars. They work through relative positioning.
My l33t artwork.
You start at a "home" position, and through triangulation your motion is detected from there. The remote interacts with the sensors at hundreds if not thousands of times per second to maintain consistant positioning data. There is no actual, physical pointing at the TV although you may do that anyway NATURALLY.
If you can't grasp it, think of a computer mouse playing a PC game. You move it up/down/left/right/diagonal. You don't actually point it at the monitor to make the cursor move in the direction you tell it to. Revolution is more advanced since it detects 3D movement and doesn't use optical lasers or balls like mice do, but the result is similar.
Post by: AnyoneEB on April 30, 2006, 07:32:48 AM
Quote
If you had to calibrate your position to the TV, that would mean you would also have to sit in the same exact location and hold the controller the exact same way every time you played so the controller would always be accurate in 3D space. Fixed positioning doesn't work.
The only consistency is the direct interaction with the sensor bars. They work through relative positioning.
I think we are agreeing here, but using the sensors like that would be absolute positioning. (Well, I guess it is relative to the sensor bars, but we are assuming the position of the sensor bars is known.) Relative positioning would mean just assuming that whereever the revmote starts is its zero-point. By calibrating, I mean the sensor bars need to know where they are. This could be accomplished in any number of ways, but to be used as a pointer as has been described, it would have to be done. As in your picture, simply placing them properly may be enough calibration. Or, I guess you are suggesting calibrating by having the game assume the revmote is pointing at the center of the screen to start.
(Just a note: you need 4 sensors for absolute positioning in 3-dimentional space. Imagine a sphere around each sensor; where all the spheres intersect is the guessed location of the object (the revmote, in this case). With two sensors, you get a circle in the air. With three you get one point where the revmote is and another in the mirror location behind the TV, which is good enough. If you are familiar with GPS, you may know that you need communications with a minimum of three satellites for positioning.)
Of course, the whole point will be moot rather soon, once we know the actually capabilities of the system and how it works, which we will know by launch if not from E3.
Post by: trip1eX on April 30, 2006, 07:35:44 AM
1up.com 9/15/05
"DEMO: BLOCK BUSTER
A firing-range-like contest where two players compete to see who can shoot randomly appearing squares first. Aiming is done by pointing the controller itself at different points on screen, pulling the B trigger to fire.
IMPRESSIONS: A great demonstration of how intuitive the controller can be-pointing it to aim felt perfectly natural, right from the very first second, just like with a light gun. It always shot exactly where it felt like I was aiming, and was incredibly responsive to even slight wrist movements-I barely had to move my hand at all."
GI Red Steel Ubisoft interview
"Aiming with the controller is as simple as using a laser pointer. You point your hand at a target and hit the trigger on the underside of the controller to fire "
Post by: wandering on April 30, 2006, 07:39:34 AM
QuoteThe fact that he felt it was sensitive to slight wrist movements kind of indicates it doesn't, actually, work like a lightgun tho...
It always shot exactly where it felt like I was aiming, and was incredibly responsive to even slight wrist movements-I barely had to move my hand at all."
Post by: trip1eX on April 30, 2006, 07:57:44 AM
Interview with Nintendo of Europe
"Is the motion-sensing aspect of the controller going to be compatible with all Revolution games?
Like the Nintendo DS, which offers many different input devices such as voice and touch-screen, not every game is going to use every capability of the controller. The Revolution controller can sense not only where you're pointing, but where your relative position front to back, how close you are, whether you're tilting or rolling - it senses all of these things. Those may or may not be appropriate for different games, so there's no absolute requirement that all games should use it.
The current controller design does work reasonably well for certain types of game - we're not going to throw it all out, but we wanted a fresh start and a fresh way of thinking to bring new consumers to the console."
http://www.dsrevolution.com/article.php?articleid=657
Post by: trip1eX on April 30, 2006, 08:04:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuoteThe fact that he felt it was sensitive to slight wrist movements kind of indicates it doesn't, actually, work like a lightgun tho...
It always shot exactly where it felt like I was aiming, and was incredibly responsive to even slight wrist movements-I barely had to move my hand at all."
No a light gun would work the same way in that you could hold it in your lap and makes slight movements to aim at different points on the screen. Of course this isn't practical with a light gun because it's not really meant to be held in such a manner. It's shaped like a gun afterall.
Post by: BigJim on April 30, 2006, 09:33:57 AM
Post by: trip1eX on April 30, 2006, 10:43:07 AM
They've talked alot about pointing. And the GI article says you point your hand at a target to aim. I don't see how you explain that away unless it's actually sensing where you are pointing.
Post by: Kairon on April 30, 2006, 10:49:27 AM
Why is it called the "Direct Pointer Device?" Does that imply that there may be functionaility which would require clear line-of-sight to the TV? With the motion-sensor 3D space technology as I understand it, you don't need a line-of-sight to the tv to have the Wii know where the controller is. ... Or can IR technology be used to triangulate pointing position? How did the Super Scope determine pointing, did it use pixel capture lightgun technology?
Or maybe there's nothing to this at all... blargh!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Jensen on April 30, 2006, 11:17:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX
SEnsor bar is only one part of the story. The sensor bar tells you 3d positioning. The gyro sensors tell you how the controller is pointed. Put the two together and it determines where you are aiming on the screen. Of course they have to somehow calibrate the location of the sensor bar to the location and size of your TV. But a simple 4 corner calibration would do this.
They've talked alot about pointing. And the GI article says you point your hand at a target to aim. I don't see how you explain that away unless it's actually sensing where you are pointing.
The Gyration air-mouse allows you to "point". That doesn't mean that if you put gun sights on the mouse, they would line up exactly with where the cursor is on the screen.
The only time the sensor bar would be needed for "pointing" is if you want to make a lightgun style game with no cursor on the screen.
Post by: BigJim on April 30, 2006, 11:44:06 AM
Someone would have mentioned a 4-corner system by now if that were being used. It's not all that simple either. Such a setup would have wires running all over the place and goes counter to their "controller intimidation" efforts.
For all intents and purposes, we only know of the 2 bars. It's much easier to have mouse-like pointing if the game uses a cursor/crosshair.
Post by: AnyoneEB on April 30, 2006, 12:46:34 PM
Post by: Ceric on April 30, 2006, 03:41:34 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on May 01, 2006, 12:13:48 PM
This would have been the biggest story of the year up until now, but you know.
Post by: Strell on May 01, 2006, 12:15:01 PM
I send you 10 bucks, you don't buy a Wii.
It will be 10 bucks well spent.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 01, 2006, 12:21:26 PM
The question this nunchuck thing raises is, is it the "big" secret? The name Wii suggests there is something more; something involving two eyes.
Post by: Artimus on May 01, 2006, 12:56:23 PM
Post by: MaryJane on May 01, 2006, 01:03:22 PM
and uh... so what if direct line of sight to the t.v is necessary, what would you have in the way when you're playing video games? i can't think of a single thing. i used to have my room set up that my t.v was on the same level as my bed and often a blanket or something would block the bottom of the screen... so i would move it. not a big deal.
i'm going to guess that the nunchuck sensing is different from the wiimotes pointing. the nunchuck from early pics doesn't have that (i can't think of the name now) window at the front where the signal goes through. i assume that the movements of the nunchuck are standard. for instance: in madden you use the nunchuck to juke by moving it left or right, what i'm saying is if you move it up first and then right, you still juke to the right, where you're pointing it makes no difference. as opposed to the wiimote, (i know they haven't said they implemented this but bear with me) where if you point to a spot on the field to throw to, if you move the wiimote off that spot where you throw the ball changes. i could be wrong, but hey so could you
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 01, 2006, 01:17:31 PM
MaryJane: I remember that, too; I think it was on 1up.
I do not think the IR on the revmote has to do with the motion sensing. The I/O is supposed to be done over RF like the WaveBird, so it does not have to be visible on the outside. I think Ceric's universal remote theory makes sense.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 01, 2006, 01:28:22 PM
Post by: Ceric on May 01, 2006, 01:42:01 PM
Post by: BigJim on May 01, 2006, 02:38:45 PM
I don't know what kind of bandwidth IR is capable of, but there's a good deal of bandwidth needed for this controller... button I/O, position data, tilt data, 2-way signal for the rumble, and anything else that an optional accessory, such as a microphone, would require.
Anyway, much of this works in a constant stream of 2-way data exchange. Something a little more intense, like bluetooth, sounds much more realistic. A good line of sight isn't necessary for BT but it helps.
Post by: Kairon on May 01, 2006, 02:45:52 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 02, 2006, 07:24:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm just baffled that when we have this thick data pipeline like bluetooth that can handle all that controller input, we need an IR window at ALL, let alone need it for anything pedantic.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
but is that really IR?
Post by: wandering on May 03, 2006, 11:04:16 PM
Quote
We don't. But traditionally speaking it would be an IR window. If it isn't then it would have to be something else optical to need it and I don't see a use for a laser. I'm also wondering if Nintendo will be giving developers canned packages to do things like getting the relative position and of the controller and translating it to screen coordinates. That would speed developement and let you get games out faster.
Maybe it can directly read what's on the TV screen?
Maybe it's just for show?
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 11:17:41 PM
Does this mean that it will be able to tell us whether we have line of sight towards the TV? If there's a camera included in the Rev, we could play versus TV real-life laser-tag over the net... with... computer overlays like armor seen on our pponents screen...
If the rev-mote's 3D spatial technology already knows where it is, why do we need a direct pointing device anyways? Or is it really something that heightens sensitivity to the screen's size/presence somehow?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
