Post by: EasyCure on April 20, 2006, 07:50:55 AM
actually since my friends are back to college i dont get to see them enough anymore for our smash bros. bouts and instead have gone on a zelda binge...which made me realize..
I WANT DARK LINK IN SMASH BROS. REVOLUTION.
im undecided on whether or not i'd want a 'clone' character like young link, roy, ganondorf, dr. mario, falco, or pichu...or just a shadow link color scheme. i mean a purple tunic...that was so disapointing in the first smash, even worse in the second...atleast they gave link a black tunic in that one (albiet young link only).
if a shadow link were a seperate character what differences would he have. should he be faster/lighter than link or slower and more powerful. i might flip flop on this but i might prefer a quicker fighter becuase link in SSBM was a little to slow for me after him being my go to character in the original smash. if he was a quicker character there would be no need for young link however, and if Smash3 does what Smash2 did and make former unlockable characters playable from the start (cept for luigi..still dont get why they did that..) then why have Link, Young Link AND dark link when both young and dark link's would be the same.
if dark link were slightly slower and more powerful (like ganondorf) then maybe he could weild the biggoron sword and the megaton hammer as some of his moves.
crap i'll have to cut this post short i have to get ready for work.
Post by: 18 Days on April 20, 2006, 07:56:33 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 20, 2006, 08:01:06 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2006, 08:04:44 AM
Mario (Dr. Mario, Fire Flower Mario)
Luigi (Fire Flower Luigi)
Peach (Daisy)
Yoshi (Birdo)
Bowser
Wario (Super Wario, other Wario Land things)
TP Link (Dark Link)
WW Link
Wolf Link + Midna
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf [his own move set, k thx]
Vaati/Monster Form
Ness
Paula
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Mewtwo
New Pokemon (Rukario?)
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Metaknight
Fox (Falco)
Krystal
Captain Falcon
Donkey Kong
Ike (Marth, Roy)
Samus
Ridley? [size issues]
Olimar
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
Isaac
Ray MK-II
Jill [Drill Dozer]
Skins, because clones SUCK...Get rid of this Falco/Dr. Mario bullcrap...
Post by: Mario on April 20, 2006, 08:16:13 AM
It's more likely to be Tingle (hell yes) if they add another Zelda character, or someone from the more recent Wind Waker / Twilight Princess. I'm personally hoping that instead of "adult Link" and "young link" they include Link from Wind Waker and Link from TP as different characters instead.
Other characters i'd like to see added are K.K Slider (though I doubt it, since he's totally pure man, and wouldn't whore himself out to a fighter) / Tom Nook or someone from Animal Crossing, Wario (a must), and the best thing ever would be to have the bobbing head of Professor Kawashima from Brain Training. Perhaps he can be the end boss as they reveal the master hands were actually his?
The stat whore in me craves more useless stats, I was so glad to hear Sakurai was part of the project for that reason. I want to know how many times i've pressed the A button, how many kilometres i've swung the Rev controller, and with which characters etc. though that isn't essential. Something I really liked about SSBM though was how to unlock some things you had to go really extreme. I want a trophy for everything, I want a trophy for 200 hours game time with just using Mario in a blue costume. A cool idea for trophies I think would be to make it so you collect cartridges of Nintendo games. When you get them you look at the trophy area and it just tells you basic info about the games you've collected (now, if you could actually play them, wouldn't that be sweet? Not realistic though).
New stages. This part has big potential for expansion, with lots of new Nintendo games out recently there could be some neat new levels. A Luigi's Mansion level, a level at Isle Delfino are pretty much shoeins. There's potential for a neat Pikmin garden level. A level where everyone battles on a little island around the Wind Waker ocean? A flippin crazy Wario Ware level?
Items? Let's see, FLUDD and the vacuum could be neat items. I can't be bothered thinking of more right now, but there will no doubt be more Pokemon.
The biggest thing by far, will be how the controls work. I'm not gonna begin to speculate here, but I can't wait to find out how it'll work, hopefully they can seamlessly integrate the new controller to create a fun, accessable and solid experience.
Post by: EasyCure on April 20, 2006, 08:22:55 AM
-i dont want to see masterhand again;
. giga boswer can be a bad ass boss all on his own
. maybe even give Ganon a shot. Im talking Ganon the monster not the man, either OoT form or whatever shape he takes in TP.
wiat! just got a great idea.
story mode, every character gets to battle they're respective boss in some sorta steroid induced form
-mario, luigi, peach (hell why not bowser since i cant think of anyone else to fight him) vs. giga bowser
-link, zelda/sheik vs Ganon
-ganondorf vs. dark link or even omni link (SWEET!)
-fox, falco vs andross
-ness vs giygas
hm...i cant remember who else could fight who...yoshi vs a giant baby bowser? lol
i dont know much about fire emblem, no clue what boss captain falcon might have to fight, i guess kirby could take on king deedee (sp?) and uh.....thats all i can think of for now. ooh ice climbers vs a mountain! ha!
by the way i want atleast one more earthbound character. paula would probably be a safe bet since it would be a "cute" pair but my vote would be to Poo with a Starstorm Omega attack. Jeff though would bring some long range attacks to the table though....hm this is a toughy to call.
Post by: Mario on April 20, 2006, 08:25:08 AM
Post by: EasyCure on April 20, 2006, 08:27:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
I highly doubt Dark Link will be a character... he's just in one Zelda game, and only for a second, and he's not even that cool, plus he's exactly the same as Link. :P
.
he's in two games friend ;-)
oh and young link is the same as link too, didnt stop them from adding him. either take young link out of the game or if space permits add Dark Link to the mix and make him a slower power fighter like ganondorf. different move sets (specials and normal moves) and that way its fun for everyone. the idea of a WW young linke and TP 'adult' link would be cool and i did think of it before but the graphic contrast might make it weird to fight, oh well who nows.
now im really going to work, promise!!!
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2006, 08:28:00 AM
Paula for the win...That way they'd give Ness his own move set instead of giving him Paula's attacks!
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 20, 2006, 08:37:11 AM
Pit could do this if designed well.
Luigi based on Luigi's Mansion definately could.
Olimar with a fun pikmin army would be great.
I would also enjoy a Luigi's Mansion themed level.
Also more villians need to be in the game. I don't think they neccessarily all need to be playable. I want adventure mode to have huge crazy boss battles, and finally I would get rid of those boring hands and create a more interesting final boss.
Adventure Mode should have like 10 giant bosses to battle. Something like a Metroid Boss, Boswer, I Zelda Boss...ect. ect.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 20, 2006, 08:38:43 AM
Though, I do think Ganondorf needs his sword in combat.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 20, 2006, 09:02:45 AM
What I really want in a new SSB however is for it to make SSBM feel as obsolete as SSBM made the original SSB. SSBM just kills the original game. That would be pretty hard to do though. I can't think of a way to have such a huge jump like that again. Online play is a given. I figure they could add some new "match types" like 8 player fights or tag team options or elimination fights where each player selects a team of characters and cycles through their team like a batting order as they get eliminated.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 20, 2006, 09:14:54 AM
Online adds nothing. It's a filler mode usually added in to cover glaring singleplayer deficiencies.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 20, 2006, 09:55:30 AM
QuoteI agree that Dr. Mario should just be a skin instead of a separate character.
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Mario (Dr. Mario, Fire Flower Mario)
QuoteHuh? How would Birdo play anything like Yoshi? The eggs come out of the wrong end! I wonder if the tongue is... NO! Bad thought!
Yoshi (Birdo)
QuoteIf they're going to keep Young Link, it might make sense to use the WW Link, but I think they should just drop him entirely. The cel-shaded character would really look weird mixed in with all the others.
TP Link (Dark Link)
WW Link
QuoteYou see size issues with Ridley but not with Olimar?
Ridley? [size issues]
Olimar
Quote
Skins, because clones SUCK...Get rid of this Falco/Dr. Mario bullcrap...
I don't really care if they keep clones or not, but Falco should be his own character. I wouldn't mind seeing certain characters left out. Pichu can go away, as can the Ice Climbers. Neither of those is iconic enough. There's no new pokemon iconic enough to be a playable character, really. Leave any new ones in the pokeballs.
They should definitely stop teasing us with Pit this time. I also think the game needs more villains. Ridley is an obvious choice. I'd also like to see Samurai Goroh and Wario.
Post by: Ceric on April 20, 2006, 09:58:58 AM
Also they should bring in the Might of Toad, as an item or a playable character.
Peach should have Super Princess Peach powers.
Mario Kart battle area.
Windwaker level (Fully Cellshaded)
Nes, SNES, N64, and Cube levels. (At there respective graphic levels)
Captain N and Gameboy.
Hal sleeping dog trophy level.
Virtual Console tie in.
That's about it off the top of my head.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 20, 2006, 10:24:14 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 20, 2006, 11:19:18 AM
Mario
Metroid
Zelda
are definates....
Kirby
Pikmin
Pokemon
could all be in it.
I dunno about 4 levels to each world. Worlds should be structured like the game.
Metroid should place you in a world where you must find your way to the boss, beat it and then retreat in the required time limit. Fail and you start all over.
Zelda should be like a Legend of Zelda 2 dungeon. Search for keys, solve a few puzzles, and get the dugeon key and special item to use against the boss.
Pokemon could literally be turned into a turn based battle where you select to use items, smash attacks, regular attacks, bock, and throw. It could be designed like paper, rock, scissors for simplicity.
Mario definately needs to be a 4 level world...and designed just like Super Mario Brothers. Above ground, Below Ground, moving platform, dungeon level with boss.
I think the variety in adventure mode would make it quite original and very enjoyable to play through several times.
Post by: stevey on April 20, 2006, 11:27:12 AM
I want Epona as a character, Epona going to kick link butt soon or later.
Post by: Strell on April 20, 2006, 11:34:44 AM
I am disappointed.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2006, 11:38:55 AM
Quote
Huh? How would Birdo play anything like Yoshi? The eggs come out of the wrong end! I wonder if the tongue is... NO! Bad thought!
Who's to say Birdo doesn't have a tongue? =D (And she could lay eggs, too...But it's not like Birdo is needed...)
Quote
The cel-shaded character would really look weird mixed in with all the others.
More like look awesome...I think it's a pretty lame idea just to have the same graphical style for all the characters...
Quote
You see size issues with Ridley but not with Olimar?
Yes, because Olimar is not being compared to other characters in his respective game...Who's to say that Olimar is actually tiny when all the Ninty characters could be that small!? =O Ridley, on the other hand, has size comparison to Samus...
Quote
I don't really care if they keep clones or not, but Falco should be his own character. I wouldn't mind seeing certain characters left out. Pichu can go away, as can the Ice Climbers. Neither of those is iconic enough. There's no new pokemon iconic enough to be a playable character, really. Leave any new ones in the pokeballs.
They will put in one of the Pearl/Diamond Pokemon for sure, and Ice Climbers is an awesomely unique character...Falco has no unique moves what-so-ever...
Post by: Kairon on April 20, 2006, 11:41:34 AM
...seriously, size doesn't matter.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 20, 2006, 11:55:58 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 20, 2006, 11:58:41 AM
Otherwise I couldn't give two flips about online, and I just look forward to what they'll do with this game.
Post by: MaryJane on April 20, 2006, 12:08:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
The stat whore in me craves more useless stats, I was so glad to hear Sakurai was part of the project for that reason. I want to know how many times i've pressed the A button, how many kilometres i've swung the Rev controller, and with which characters etc. though that isn't essential. Something I really liked about SSBM though was how to unlock some things you had to go really extreme. I want a trophy for everything, I want a trophy for 200 hours game time with just using Mario in a blue costume. A cool idea for trophies I think would be to make it so you collect cartridges of Nintendo games. When you get them you look at the trophy area and it just tells you basic info about the games you've collected (now, if you could actually play them, wouldn't that be sweet? Not realistic though).
New stages. This part has big potential for expansion, with lots of new Nintendo games out recently there could be some neat new levels. A Luigi's Mansion level, a level at Isle Delfino are pretty much shoeins. There's potential for a neat Pikmin garden level. A level where everyone battles on a little island around the Wind Waker ocean? A flippin crazy Wario Ware level?
Items? Let's see, FLUDD and the vacuum could be neat items. I can't be bothered thinking of more right now, but there will no doubt be more Pokemon.
The biggest thing by far, will be how the controls work. I'm not gonna begin to speculate here, but I can't wait to find out how it'll work, hopefully they can seamlessly integrate the new controller to create a fun, accessable and solid experience.
I think we are of one collective mind. I love seeing pointless stats like that, heh i'd just fight only using one button, try to top my scores of like how many times in one match i only b in order to win, ahhhhh it'd be great.
either i'm reallly baked or this is the one of the greatest posts i've ever read(Mario's).
Post by: raptorspike on April 20, 2006, 12:13:48 PM
Post by: IceCold on April 20, 2006, 02:49:23 PM
QuoteYeah - I think Ridley doesn't necessarily have to be a playable character; a boss would be good.
Also more villians need to be in the game. I don't think they neccessarily all need to be playable. I want adventure mode to have huge crazy boss battles
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 20, 2006, 02:59:19 PM
I have tried to think of a balanced and cool means of having Sonic in the game. I although I think he would easily be one of the coolest additions to the game, I just don't see alot of variety in his special moves to warrant him a playable character.
Now Viewtiful Joe would be awesome.
I would love a move that causes everyone on a small radius around him that gets hit to slow down. And I think a timed MACH Speed burst would be great for combos. But what would really make him special and different would be to require him to go into ZOOM for Smash attacks. This would be accomplished by taking up one special move...but would then allow him to have more variety of regular and Smash Attacks, so that he could truly be VIEWTIFUL to play.
Though, if Nintendo went around asking for 3rd party licenses, I think Capcom should allow Mega Man of all characters to be added.
Post by: Strell on April 20, 2006, 03:08:12 PM
Adding in Capcom, Konami, Namco, and anime characters would make the game heavenly.
I want Megaman vs. Mario, Link vs. Viewtiful Joe, etc etc.
Post by: animecyberrat on April 20, 2006, 03:21:11 PM
Krystal<<
I actualy agree with these I would also expect to see Wario, really if he is nto in the game i will be pissed.
Post by: RiskyChris on April 20, 2006, 03:54:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Huh? How would Birdo play anything like Yoshi? The eggs come out of the wrong end! I wonder if the tongue is... NO! Bad thought!
Who's to say Birdo doesn't have a tongue? =D (And she could lay eggs, too...But it's not like Birdo is needed...)
Birdo is a guy. Go read your SMB2 manual.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2006, 03:56:00 PM
Post by: Strell on April 20, 2006, 04:17:15 PM
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=154
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 20, 2006, 04:37:31 PM
Also, with the inclusion of online... What if they could release new characters online, and you could download them to whatever memory you're using for the Rev?
Post by: Zach on April 20, 2006, 05:03:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
I don't really care if they keep clones or not, but Falco should be his own character. I wouldn't mind seeing certain characters left out. Pichu can go away, as can the Ice Climbers. Neither of those is iconic enough. There's no new pokemon iconic enough to be a playable character, really. Leave any new ones in the pokeballs.
MUST...SUPPRESS....URGE....TO.....B!TCHSLAP.....PARTYBEAR!!!! jk No, just no, clones like pichu are one thing (althoug pichu, like most of the other clones are slightly different with speed and power). But the Ice Climbers a unique character, with their own moves. Their is no reason to take them out just because they arent "iconic." They should not get rid of ANY of the characters, beyond making some of the clones like Dr Mario into skins.
Post by: Kairon on April 20, 2006, 07:30:31 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on April 20, 2006, 07:44:03 PM
Oh, and also.... yeah, I want Sonic.
Post by: Hocotate on April 20, 2006, 11:55:36 PM
It's scary and exciting knowing that E3 is sooooo close.... When SSB is shown, I know my pants will suddenly feel very tight. And just imagine how this forum will be!! I remember how crazy it was during TGS...
Post by: wandering on April 21, 2006, 12:07:44 AM
edit: on an unrelated note, know what character I'd really like to see in the next smash bros? Master Chief.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 21, 2006, 05:53:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Zach
But the Ice Climbers a unique character, with their own moves. Their is no reason to take them out just because they arent "iconic." They should not get rid of ANY of the characters, beyond making some of the clones like Dr Mario into skins.
I suppose I still harbor ill will toward the Ice Climbers for being in the game instead of Pit, or just about any other classic character I had actually heard of before.
Post by: EasyCure on April 21, 2006, 06:11:06 AM
you guys have some awesome ideas too.
when i said i didnt want clones (if i did, i dont remember anymore) i didnt mean i wanted to give characters like pichu and falco the boot. i say keep them, just dont add NEW ones or atleast vary them more. i never really liked playing is pikachu or pichu, but if i ever wanted a challenge i'd pick pichu. the fact that his own electrical attacks harm him is great because it lets you play with more of a strategy to make sure every hit counts or else you'll be flying off the screen in no time.
i'd like a bigger variety. someone else pointed out that in the sequel luigi had a different move set from mario and that dr mario became the clone, why cant this happen for anyone else?. i say keep dr. mario as his own character and change his moves. that way you have mario who is well balance with power and speed, and dr. mario who is quicker and ...i dont remember if he's less powerful. as long as the moves for the clone characters can change to set them apart more i dont mind keeping them at all. i liked how in the sequel you get every character from the last game, then unlock a whole lot more. i want to see EVERY character from Mellee make it into the revolution version, and then add to that.
thats why for any of you dark link haters out there who say it would be pointless because they have the same moves, i say this....whatever lol. just because he's shadow link doesnt mean he has to have the same moves. this is a fighter we're talking about. all they have to do is give him moves different from link and change his stats.
i'll agree with whoever said the single player adventure mode should have more bosses. i couldnt agree more. every character should have an adventure suited to their respective worlds. 8 and 16-bit graphic levels would be a great throwback to the virtual console.
imagine playing adventure mode with mario, you reach level four and you have to progress thru an 8-bit bowser castle to meet him at the end. the level closes off with walls on every side so you cant knock him off the stage but instead have to hit an axe that he protects ferociously behind him (axe with a high hp, like that of master hand) and let him fall into the lava below...classic.
oh and i'd like to see a dark samus skin as well. why i want dark link as a seperate character but dark samus as a skin is beyond me, so dont ask
Post by: UncleBob on April 21, 2006, 06:11:26 AM
Post by: EasyCure on April 21, 2006, 06:13:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
I'd rather they actually release an Earthbound game over here before they add more from that series.
ahmen. why cant they just translate those damn mother games for the gba? mother 1 & 2 on one cart, plus finally mother 3 is realeased and they cant even translate it for us rabid fans?!? that bloooowwssss. they know we obviously like ness enough to throw parties when we unlocked him in the first smash and keep him as a starting character in the sequel. TRANSLATE THE GAMES NINTENDO
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 06:30:38 AM
I love your Duck Hunt Idea. It would make a simple Two Platformed level (Two trees on each side, branches you can jump on.)
Ducks would fly around, and occassionally a white flicker will happen onscreen and the ducks would die.
After the Dog grabs the duck or ducks he throws powerups onto the playfield.
You sir are brilliant.
That must be a level.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 21, 2006, 07:03:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
every character should have an adventure suited to their respective worlds.
But then you don't get the novelty of Kirby fighting Metroids, Captain Falcon avoiding the traps in Bowser's Castle, or Samus looking for keys in a Zelda dungeon.
I like the idea of boss battles in Adventure mode, though. They should follow a stage from one of the games in the series they're from. I would like nothing more than to climb up a series of girders, jumping barrels and fireballs, to lay the smackdown on a giant DK.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 21, 2006, 07:19:47 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 07:25:56 AM
Donkey Kong: King K. Rool would be awesome.
Mario Brothers could be a bout with all the Koopa Kids
Metroid: A giant Kraid is a must.
Kirby: Perhaps King Dedede (unless he is a playable character)
Pokemon: (I think a battle with Team Rocket would be fun.)
Speaking of Pokemon. I think Nintendo should do something different this game with Pokemon characters.
Keep Pikachu and Jigglypuff in the game. But I would love a Trainer character whose special moves are all related to calling different Pokemon to help him out. I would figure he would be a overall very weak normal attacking character, but would have some cool Pokemon related combos...and perhaps can self heal with a Pokemon's help.
I dunno. I really want to make the adventure mode bigger and something really special for single player.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 07:38:48 AM
This is the PERFECT Mario Boss Battle for end of an adventure level.
Arena is surrounded by lava on both sides, and is made up of Pipes from varying heights.
There are also Pipes above you.
The battle starts out fighting just one of the Koopa kids. Once you beat them. 2 show up. And once you beat one of them another shows up making it three.
At the same time. One is popping out of the top pipes shooting at you, and another is popping out of the bottom pipes shooting at you.
At the end of the battle you are struggling against 4 Koopa kids in a regular battle and 2 attacking you from pipes.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 21, 2006, 07:39:59 AM
I like the Pokemon trainer idea. They'd have to dip into the show to give one a readily recognizable personality, though, and I don't know how people would react to that. It would certainly be hilarious (and annoying) to hear "Team Rocket's blasting off agaaaaaain!" every time you Star KOed them.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 07:51:22 AM
Post by: EasyCure on April 21, 2006, 08:12:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
every character should have an adventure suited to their respective worlds.
But then you don't get the novelty of Kirby fighting Metroids, Captain Falcon avoiding the traps in Bowser's Castle, or Samus looking for keys in a Zelda dungeon.
.
i should of made my point clearer. someone else posted how there should be 8 levels with 4 worlds each and i was thinking that although that would be a good idea, it might be a little more fun (IMO) if they kept adventure mode the way it is now (different levels from the ninty universe) but the last four could be relate to that specific character. i only thought it through with mario so i imagined kicking off adventure mode in hyrule, then to zebes, so on and so forth, but when you reach the final level (level 8) mario could reach the mushroom kingdom (or even Subcon, though maybe peach could visit subcon instead since that was the first time she was a playable character..or toad if he was playable!)
from there 8-1 would be an overworld level full of goombas, koopa troopas, hammer bros., platforms and a battle to reach the flag.
8-2 could be underworld with pipe mazes, fire flowers, lava, and those spikey shelled koopas.
8-3 could be a waterworld with the squid and fish and whatnot (im sorry i couldnt remember their names)
8-4 would then be the bowser level i mentioned before.
hope that clarifies what i meant. of course i'd love to see samus take out a stalfos and ganon pound on a poor pokemon, who wouldnt?
Post by: EasyCure on April 21, 2006, 08:13:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Spak: How about a reticle going over the playing field and if you're in the crosshairs, BANG?
those were my thoughts exactly. that level woud ROCK and is a must for Smash Revolution
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 08:26:20 AM
You can still protect yourself by avoiding being in front of the Ducks. (which yeah I know if you are in front of them how do you know...) but I think they would move fast enough to know.
Then if you get hit, you save a Ducks life...and that could be an award at the end of the bout. Get shot three times and you are a Duck Saver or something.
Or Animal Activist might be a better name.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 21, 2006, 09:06:50 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on April 21, 2006, 09:07:38 AM
Characters that I absolutely must see are Meta Knight, Ridley, and Sonic. Sonic seems way out there, but a long time go Yuji Naka, revealed that he was going to be in SSBM but there wasn't enough time to fit him in.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 09:36:15 AM
Post by: Michael8983 on April 21, 2006, 10:00:45 AM
Possibly Pac-Man as well since Namco is another developer that Nintendo has had close ties with.
Imagine the awesomeness of Mario vs Sonic vs Pacman. Perhaps the three most recognized gaming icons of all time.
2) There needs to be a full-fledged adventure mode. The one in Melee was cool but it could have been SO much more. Every character needs an appropriate level and, as others have said, there should be several boss battles throughout. But most of all it needs to be multi-player with both a co-op mode where you and a partner (or partners) go through the level as a team and a competitive mode where you compete to beat the most baddied and reach the goals first. Oh yeah, and the return of the unbelievably awesome Giga-Bowser.
3) Online play with up to eight players at once. It might have to be limited to a few very basic levels to avoid slow-down but that's fine. It would be worth it.
4) Metaknight and King Dee Dee! Considering the developer it's ridiculous they haven't made the cut yet.
Post by: Kairon on April 21, 2006, 10:03:52 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 21, 2006, 10:07:10 AM
Ha. I like that. Have it be time sensitive...and something Random like how to fight Luigi in Mario's Adventure mode.
Except it should be even more trippy then that. You literally fall into Sonic's world instead of Mario's and you play through the level then have to fight Sonic.
Afterwards, you are like WHAT THE!!! Did I just unlock him? And the answer is No.
And you wait for the eventual time release to come up again to play the level.
(Ha, that is evil.)
Post by: animecyberrat on April 21, 2006, 11:31:02 AM
Lindsay Lohan! thast rigth she can dress up in all her beautiful outfits from Mean Grils to Drama Queen and she has some great special moves liek she can sing and dance her oponents to death. Also she gives one nasty dirty look that is a near instance kill.
Post by: Ceric on April 21, 2006, 11:40:16 AM
Now if they Want to make a Marvel Vs Capcom style game then I'm all for it. Even if it uses the same mechanics as Smash Brothers but I would definitely consider it a different series and be Disappointed if Smash Brother Rev was it.
Oh, I'm also hoping for downloadable future event battles. Celebrating new games, anniversary, getting the Reggie trophy, whatever.
Also, while I'm ranting, please stop referring to me as "Someone Else "everytime you refer to my Post. My name is right beside it. I've only been active for over a year. I'm not new.
Post by: EasyCure on April 21, 2006, 01:53:58 PM
i agree with something that Somone Else said. if i had to have mario vs sonic in a game, i'd rather do it in a marvel vs capcom game. smash brothers is about the nintendo universe and i'd like to keep it that way....but does that make me some sort of game racist?
sorry Ceric, you set yourself up.
Post by: Mario on April 21, 2006, 07:01:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
What about challenges that are "snippets" from existing Nintendo games? Maybe each character can have one. So for Captain Falcon you have to win the first race from F-Zero and with Mario you have to beat the first level of Super Mario Bros and with Link you have to beat the first dugeon of the original Zelda. The snippets would actually be from the real games and act kind of like a demo for those games. Aside from the fact that it would fun the demos would also be effective advertising for the Rev download service.
We don't want the new SSB to be one giant rehash!
Post by: Caterkiller on April 21, 2006, 10:37:42 PM
Post by: EasyCure on April 22, 2006, 08:20:22 AM
Post by: Ceric on April 22, 2006, 09:24:28 AM
Edit:
Easycure: You're right I did sort of walk into that one. *hangs head*
Caterkiller: On a few minutes more thought I guess I also wouldn't want to see a Dark Stalker character in a straight up Street Fighter game or Strider show up playable in a Megaman series game, even though Strider rocks and Strider 2 did no justice for him. Those examples come from the same company even. Now I have no problem with it in the Capcom Vs games and like just not the straight up series.
I mean I put this akin to Marvel vs DC. If memory serves, and feel free to correct me, I don't think that the two universes have ever officially collided. There were talks at one point of having a comic series where they went at it and it would be done by votes. Now I know that in HereoClixs at least the two sets, and Indy, can all be used together for none official bouts. My point on that one was that it has always been an unwritten rule to not mix like that in your home medium. Then again this is all opinion. I just see the Nintendo Universe not compatible with other peoples universes. When your games designed for a Nintendo conole there just seems to be a different set of unwritten rules then when it's written for either Sony or Microsoft. Like here in the USA white is a good guy color more or less and black is a mourning/ bad guy color. Where in other places of the World its the opposite. I feel that if Sega still had a console Sonic in Smash would get you burned at the stake. That being said, initiate 180 switch, if Sonic was in the game what type of moveset would he have?
Sonic would have to be light and incredibly fast, as in fastest character fast, which would make him hard to control. In his normal move set, charged spin, roll jump, etc., there really isn't something that I could see translating into a Smash move, except for charged spin (think Jiggly). What are your guys thoughts on this? I mean even including the none core games I just can't think of any move that seems hard hitting enough. In fact thinking about it Sonic, unlike Mario, had new Characters added to fill the gap that lacking this sort of move made for Sonic. That's why you have Nuckles, Amy, Choatix detectives, pretty much everyone, even Shadow to some extent. I just can't invision his moves.
Sorry if I have offended anyone.
Post by: IceCold on April 22, 2006, 09:46:00 AM
Post by: Ceric on April 22, 2006, 10:02:35 AM
Post by: Hocotate on April 22, 2006, 02:17:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Hocotate:
I love your Duck Hunt Idea. It would make a simple Two Platformed level (Two trees on each side, branches you can jump on.)
Ducks would fly around, and occassionally a white flicker will happen onscreen and the ducks would die.
After the Dog grabs the duck or ducks he throws powerups onto the playfield.
You sir are brilliant.
That must be a level.
I'm glad someone agrees with me! I hope the Duck Hunt Dog is also a playable character to go with the stage, maybe he could have the NES gun as a weapon. And I like your idea of a Pokemon trainer being a playable character, all of his moves could revolve around using different Pokemon. I'd assume that they wouldn't be as deadly as the pokemon in the pokeball item though.... Because then that character would basically be the auto-win character.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 22, 2006, 03:17:14 PM
No trophies
No more goddamn pokemon
Post by: Ceric on April 22, 2006, 03:20:11 PM
Really pretty openning movie.
Good opening title.
Click start.
Credits.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 22, 2006, 03:45:00 PM
SSB is a MULTIPLAYER game from the ground up. Focusing effort on single player aspects of the game is like worrying about the salt and pepper shakers when the turkey is catching fire in the oven.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on April 22, 2006, 04:31:06 PM
1.
I don't want to see the same friggin characters win every tournament (Sheik/Fox/Marth, occasionally Falco/Peach). Marth needs to be dumbed down, Peach needs to lose some of that incredible horizontal recovery (I'm a Peach and I think it is a little much), Falco's spike needs to be modified (like in the PAL version)
[I could go on... ]
Beef up Yoshi, make Ness a champion, Game & Watch a contender, etc.
2.
Obviously many people are going to want to use the shell controller for this game; we don't know how this will control with the freehand yet, but I fear that shell players will end up having some advantage in smashes (thanks to the C-stick)
If the new controls aren't good enough to keep up in high-level play, then no one will use them.
I would like to see people winning tournaments with the Freehand Remote, and I think the only way for this to happen is if the shell controls have no C-stick functionality. I know that the Cstick is essential for SHFFLd Uairs and retreating Fair/Bairs, but I would really love to see the Cstick functions removed. It's kinda lame how someone can whip out a smash in the flick of a stick. Pulling off natural smash attacks with the A button when under pressure is what is supposed to separate the pros from teh hos.
Post by: EasyCure on April 22, 2006, 06:48:01 PM
i could come up with a few tricks but they would be too similar to something already in the game, in which case the appearance of sonic within the nintendo universe wouldnt be special at all.
if you're curious as to what thost moves could be, heres a few off the top of my head.
-the Fire Fox move (Fox: up-B) where he would briefly turn to Super Sonic and charges in in a certain direction
-jiggly puffs roll attack (hold B)- uh...sorta self explanatory, he curls up,charges and rams you
-ganon/falcons air grab variation (fwd-b). this could be like ganon/falcons mid air grab except performed only against standing opponents. sonic would grab hold of another players shoulders, hop up and lightning kick them in the face (essentially just running on their heads with his super speedy feet)
-kirby transformation (dwn-B): this would be like kirbys attack where he turns to stone/a thwomp, except sonic could curl up and extend his spikes as he drops down to deal damage, and stay on the floor like that damaging anyone to touch it much like a porcupine.
except for that grab move i mentioned, being the only (slightly) original, everything else would come off to players hoping for some cool sonic bouts as something they've seen before. and thats ONLY the specials, what kind of smash attacks would he have? it took me long enough just to come up with that move set.
sonic just shouldnt be in it
Post by: Ceric on April 23, 2006, 06:22:22 AM
I mean if you going to just go and throw people from the Sega Universe then I want Newman from PSO, prefereble weilding daggers. With the Mags and all it be easy to make Smash moves. Thinking back I never realized how none versatile Segas characters where compared to Nintendo's. I mean they all are designed to fill a niche but the Sega ones fill a niche and aren't very expended or expandable out of that niche.
Edit:
Smash_Brothers: I thought that the Multiplayer mode had a lot of Depth to it. Especially compared to all of it's fighter counterparts. Now I beleive the Single Player could have used more focus myself. I, personally, found it hard to get fellow people to play with so the Single player is most of the time what I'm stuck with. Plus to open up somethings you had to do things like beat Adventure mode with all the players. That's cool. I just wish it would mix it up a little.
Post by: TMW on April 23, 2006, 10:58:36 AM
Post by: RiskyChris on April 23, 2006, 11:19:02 AM
Post by: IceCold on April 23, 2006, 11:57:28 AM
QuoteFox, right?
Nah...I could easily see Sonic's kinds of moves. He'd have to be the fastest character in the game, and I'm talking faster than Falco,
I want them to do a lot more with Samus - she has so much potential, and it was wasted in SSBM..
Post by: animecyberrat on April 23, 2006, 12:12:10 PM
OF course if Sega is going to be liscensing characters, then theres a ton others who could work (or Sgea should make tier own SSB style game that would be better)
But Toe Jam and Earl make good Charcatrs also so would NiGhts, Shinobi, any of the guys from VF, Mr Bones would rock, Alex Kidd would be cool too, then theres Knuckles (prefect for a fighitng game), Robotnic (eggman)
also the guys from Streets of rage or the guys form Altered beast. the list goes on and on. Actualy when you think aboutit Sega actualy has a ton more characters to choose from than Nintendo does so they really SHOULD makea game like Smash Bros with all the best Sega charcaters how bout it Sega!?!?
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on April 23, 2006, 01:04:13 PM
Missle Canceling, Bomb recovery/grapple recovery, sic Dsmash and Utilt, great weight.
Post by: IceCold on April 23, 2006, 02:14:34 PM
Post by: Ceric on April 23, 2006, 03:59:06 PM
That being said Night would just be broken. It would definetly be a light character and it can fly. In fact from what I can tell it flies all the time. So to compensate you have to make it be really easy to do an uber Smash out to. Which would stink.
Post by: zakkiel on April 23, 2006, 06:13:55 PM
QuoteThat seems like a really low bar to clear.
Pulling off natural smash attacks with the A button when under pressure is what is supposed to separate the pros from teh hos.
QuoteI agree the balancing should be better, but bear in mind both that the game is designed with items in mind (and they should be included in tournaments, IMO - yes, they add more randomness, but also require a much more strategic style of play).
I don't want to see the same friggin characters win every tournament (Sheik/Fox/Marth, occasionally Falco/Peach). Marth needs to be dumbed down, Peach needs to lose some of that incredible horizontal recovery (I'm a Peach and I think it is a little much), Falco's spike needs to be modified (like in the PAL version)
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 23, 2006, 07:23:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
Two things: Balance (in characters) and Balance (in controls)
1.
I don't want to see the same friggin characters win every tournament (Sheik/Fox/Marth, occasionally Falco/Peach). Marth needs to be dumbed down, Peach needs to lose some of that incredible horizontal recovery (I'm a Peach and I think it is a little much), Falco's spike needs to be modified (like in the PAL version)
Crap, I forgot about this.
Yes, BALANCE.
THIS is why they should have scrapped the single player completely: scrap that sh!t and balance the characters.
I don't care if the game looks like ass and the music is nothing but a soundtrack of exploding puppies: NO MORE TIERS!!!!!
In case you cannot tell, I'm...quite passionate about this subject.
They need to stop giving heavy characters the shaft in favor of lighter characters. When the top tier is populated entirely by light characters, something has to change.
They need to balance attack stopping. Know how little attacks don't interrupt moves when you have the metal block active? Yeah, that's exactly what heavy characters need. Bowser should not be stopped from doing his massive headbutt smash attack because Pichu pokes him in the knee.
Post by: Nile Boogie on April 23, 2006, 08:41:16 PM
Whatever happened to "Poke'freak" and have I really been around these boards that long?
Post by: TMW on April 23, 2006, 10:19:33 PM
And, Falco is faster than Fox, yo.
At least, I was always under that impression.
===
And while there are alot of worthy Sega characters, Sonic is The Sega Character. It was never "Mario and Earl", or "Mario and Alex Kidd". It was always "Mario and Sonic", and who better to put in SSBMOnline than The Sega Character.
I'm pretty happy. Sega was my brand of choice before Nintendo, so this is just muy awesome.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 23, 2006, 11:07:26 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 05:43:48 AM
Unfortunately, the fast characters can easily play hit and run on the closer characters.
The only thing I would do is make their smash attacks much stronger. To where you fear getting hit with a smash attack from them much earlier in your damage percentage.
I always thought the first game was more balanced then the second...and that is partially because the first game's levels were better. Too much random movements and craziness in Melee's levels for my taste.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 05:56:03 AM
Seperate point:
All this talk about elminating single player mode worries me. Yes, I know you say this game is primarly multiplayer...but I think it is VERY, VERY unwise to create a game with only multiplayer options. Whenever you do that, you begin to narrow who all will be interested in the game.
I enjoyed running through Melee's Adventure mode much more than playing multiplayer, because I didn't always have friends that would play multiplayer with me. Then when I did, their skill level kept them from enjoying playing me in the game. Without Adventure mode I would have been completely bummed.
Single Player experiences allow you to hone in your skills, and provides you with different challenges when you are playing alone. To leave that out of the game is to provide an incomplete experience.
Look at Metroid Prime Hunters. Its a great game, but everyone is complaining that it isn't Metroid, and that isn't because of the new control scheme. Its because the design team didn't spend enough time creating a story, and developing Metroid gameplay elements into the single player experience.
I see the future of Smash Brothers being defined by what they bring to the single player adventure mode not the multiplayer. The multiplayer experience is already great. Sure it isn't perfect, but no fighting game is perfect...and very few fighting games are as enjoyable and crazy as Smash Brothers Melee.
However, the single player modes of fighting games are always lacking...and Smash Brothers Melee did a great job of changing that trend...but even it needed more work. Smash Revolution could literally change that completely.
Post by: EasyCure on April 24, 2006, 06:01:43 AM
i say everyone go play it right now for a solid hour, then play SSBM and worship it until the next sequal arrives. it truley was better in every aspect, as well as balance. i guess maybe i just like to have the balance shifted a little more, it makes such an unrealistic (concept) game slightly more realistic. DK bowser and Ganon will of course OWN characters like pichu and jigglypuff, so why not add that in the game for a real balance. i have this one friend who is SICK with ganondorf, if i watch him play i'd swear he was somehow making him go faster than he should and thats what makes him a worthy opponent; he knows how to use his character. it was fun playing as DK in the original Smash becuase he was strong and fast, but i also like him the way he is now. it adds for some sort of strategy in all the mayhem.
also, speaking of Mayhem adn the rumour that the next smash will be "super smash bros. mayhem". i dont like it. why have two SSBM when (if the rumour is true) you could have it called Super Smash Bros. Total Chaos
ps. in response to Somone Else (you know who you are). that was my point exactly, you cant add too much to sonic that wouldnt make sense because you'd be taking away from what makes him that lightning fast blue rat that (some of us) know and love oh so much. it would be better to just leave him out of the game and not harm his reputation anymore than Shadow did.
this is only SLIGHTLY off topic, but i want to see Zero in a smash-type fighter. thats the Zero from x2 by the way, from the ending where you confront him in the control center...that was him at his most badass
Post by: zakkiel on April 24, 2006, 06:23:38 AM
QuoteYou're insane.
it truley was better in every aspect, as well as balance. i guess maybe i just like to have the balance shifted a little more, it makes such an unrealistic (concept) game slightly more realistic. DK bowser and Ganon will of course OWN characters like pichu and jigglypuff, so why not add that in the game for a real balance.
Post by: EasyCure on April 24, 2006, 06:41:35 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 06:55:45 AM
Your main arguement you open with is graphics and sound. Sure the sound design was weaker, but it was an experimental title without the large budget Melee had.
Personally, I found the level design and items much more balanced in the original game than in Melee. The only except being the Hammer.
But the true testiment for my opinion is that I was able to long in over 100 hours of 4 player multiplayer of the original...and I couldn't get anyone to play the sequel with me. (Same friends didn't enjoy Melee.)
Melee had too much chaos going on, over the original. And you could turn it off, but turning things off meant that things wouldn't be as enjoyable.
My personal opinion is the original was more enjoyable for my tastes. Yet, I can see why people feel Melee is the better game.
Post by: EasyCure on April 24, 2006, 07:12:29 AM
i had the same friends who i enjoyed the original with who LOVE the sequel. one of them doesnt even own a gamecube but comes over every chance he gets to kick our asses. i suppose i am lucky that my friends or of about equal skill leven that they can enjoy the game .
for me i could only play the original alone for the single player aspect but with Mellee i find that i can just turn on bots and play a few vs rounds against AI. items on, off, different battle modes, its all fun with or without a pal or two in the room. the original on the other hand, not so much. on the other hand the adventure mode i felt was a little stale, not really sure why the adventure mode in the first one appealed more. maybe because it was quicker and the only main reason i played was to unlock more fighteres. i agree that single player should be a HUGE part of smash as well as the VS. if you missed it, in earlier post i was throwing out suggestions for single player mode, when my original intent for this thread was focused on the multiplayer aspect and character moves/abilitiles. adding the single player adventure is a huge concern for me becuase i will find myself playing it in the next installment. its not something i could just ignore; aside from having to beat it to unlock certain features, i aslwas enjoy the challenge of new highscores.
my argument before was more about the balance of fighters as opposed to levels or graphics and sound (though it came off that way). i like the direction Melee took with the fighters because it lends strategy to the formula. in the first smash you could build up your personal skill level and be great with any character because they were balance about the same. in Melee they changed it and going into it with the skill from the first game, thinking you could be great with every character was a no-no. i could hold my own with pikachu or one of the lighter characters, but i would never call them one of my staple characters. some may call melee uneven in that respect but i dont see it that way at all. go back play the original and watch fox fall from a jump. then do the same thing in Melee and notice the difference. things like that add (for me atleast) a strategic element to the choas because i have to now time jumps more precisely if i choose him. it makes the game better in my opion
Post by: Ian Sane on April 24, 2006, 07:58:44 AM
Do that and I won't buy it. I enjoyed playing SSBM with my friends but the reason I got so much playtime out of it was because it had a lot to do when my friends weren't over. Even with online play, multiplayer only would greatly reduce the amount of playtime I would get out of it. I loved how SSBM had so much variety. I could play a few matches with my brothers and if that got boring I could play some challenges or smash targets or whatever. There was tons to do.
Plus I think removing single player would greatly limit the appeal. The only people who would want single player scrapped in favour of better balance are hardcore tournament types. But this isn't a hardcore fighting game. This is a game with tons of mass appeal and I think the average SSB player would look at a sequel without single player and be turned off by having tons of features from SSBM removed. They wouldn't understand how it was a sacrifice that had to be made for balance. They probably wouldn't CARE about the better balance. They would just notice that a huge chunk of the game was missing.
I think they should make an effort to balance characters but they shouldn't hack the game apart to do it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 24, 2006, 08:44:55 AM
The first SSB was a goddamn phenomenon in my circle of friends: everyone played it, everyone loved it.
SSBM wasn't as well received. The controls were loose and the game moved faster than the previous one and thus was based more on reflex than strategy and skill. A player who mashed buttons in SSB would get absolutely nothing done. A player who button mashes in SSBM can do far more damage, especially with the c-stick at their disposal.
To quote one friend, "It feels more mortal kombatish." For starters, it lacked the tight controls that SSB did. It also lacked the balance, as lighter characters will ALWAYS have a decided advantage due to speed. I kick ass with Bowser: I picked him as my main because I knew he held the greatest disadvantage (he shares the bottom tier with Pichu), but I know for a fact that trying to take him into the tournament circuit would never work because speed is king in SSBM.
I want balance, no clones, and I'd love a "classic" mode which moves at the same speed as the original.
However, I expect SSB3 to be "turboed" out, making it throughly unplayable for most fans of the original and to be absolutely littered with clones and for the secret character selection to suck a whole pile of ass.
That way, I'm not setting myself up for the same disappointment of SSBM.
Post by: eljefe on April 24, 2006, 08:59:16 AM
Quotetrue
SSBM wasn't as well received. The controls were loose and the game moved faster than the previous one and thus was based more on reflex than strategy and skill. A player who mashed buttons in SSB would get absolutely nothing done. A player who button mashes in SSBM can do far more damage, especially with the c-stick at their disposal.
I wasn't dissapointed by Melee
but it is definately a different game.
I prefer the original..
Post by: Ian Sane on April 24, 2006, 09:15:57 AM
I'll agree with this. Ditch the c-stick easy smashes or at least make it so you can turn it off. When my friends and I play we have a rule about that. We also enforce random select for all characters but we do that rule with EVERY fighting game.
I still don't see the association between single player mode and character balance.
This is also honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone say anything bad about SSBM EVER.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 24, 2006, 10:09:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian SaneDo that and I won't buy it.
Hate to say it, but there are plenty of worthy single player experiences which will be available on the Rev. SSB:Rev should not have it's multiplayer suffer because the developers spent too much time looking into a game mode no one would play for more than 5-6 hours anyway.
Post by: Ceric on April 24, 2006, 10:29:57 AM
Post by: Kraven on April 24, 2006, 12:16:36 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 24, 2006, 01:02:04 PM
Fair enough but I don't really think that was a problem with SSBM. I certainly don't think they should make the single player WORSE for the sequel. They can not put so much attention in it or focus more on the multiplayer but they shouldn't make it worse.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 01:32:54 PM
Another Topic.
The point of single player inclusion is simple. Even with internet play, you can't always count on people being available for multiplayer gaming, and multiplayer with BOTS just isn't good enough.
It is justifable to have a single game experience without multiplayer, because you can always play by yourself. You don't have to plan on other peoples' schedules. You don't have to hope others around the world are playing online. You don't have to throw events at your house to play the game. You can just PLAY.
This is important to a game...without it, then the game will die. It just won't develop the fanbase it needs. Most people view Mario Kart as a multiplayer party game...but it is the single player experience that people feel in love with in the first place.
To even suggest dropping the single player experience because multiplayer needs more work is ridiculous. If anything I would argue the opposite. Smash Brothers needs to ensure the single player game is enjoyable on all levels before conquering the multiplayer aspect of the game. A great example of this is Goldeneye. Goldeneye is great because they polished the single player experience. The multiplayer modes were an after thought...and because the single player was so great, the multiplayer happened to be enjoyable too. Even though Goldeneye is known for its multiplayer it was originally the single player mode that brought people to the game.
In short, both single player and multiplayer must be treated with equal respect and time to create a great experience. Without single player mode with Smash Brothers you will limit the appeal of the game, and limit the replayability and even the entire playability of the game. Equally, Smash Brothers is known for its multiplayer experience. You can't ignore that appeal and it must be included. Just like Bomberman has to include the classic multiplayer game in each new game.
Final Topic:
I thought of another character that must be included in the game. Balloon Fighter.
This character will literally be different than any other character because he can perminantly float if he so choses. In fact, while floating you can develop an entirely new set of moves for him.
The draw back is...floating takes up his third jump option and can easily be countered by busting his balloons. (He can have 3, and each one allows him to float at varying heights.) So if he wants to stay low to the ground and float he must make one balloon. He makes balloons relatively fast, but he won't be able to make more than one balloon while falling from a hit.
What do you think? Another new character with completely new play mechanics for the game.
Post by: Caterkiller on April 24, 2006, 01:34:00 PM
I do believe that the faster characters do have a slight advantage when it comes to 1v1. But I doubt it was because of the single player offering in SSBM. When there were interviews about SSBM befor it was released, Nintendo acknowledged that there was an unbalance between characters, particularly Kirby. And for the most part I think that they handled it very well. Because most of my friends and family seem to love the faster characters(that usualy win tournaments) I have made Mewtwo(who we all think is vastly underpowered) and Bowser my main characters to show them that they aren't as useless as they think.
Post by: zakkiel on April 24, 2006, 01:56:34 PM
QuoteThat you want them to deliberately unbalance characters to reflect their "realistic" fighting strengths.
haha what makes me insane?
QuoteI never understood the problem people had with the Hammer. I never had much difficulty dealing with it, and I played DK for choice. The ray gun, however, was definitely unbalanced. Otherwise, I agree. The overall level and item design just felt better in the original. And the characters were definitely more balanced.
Personally, I found the level design and items much more balanced in the original game than in Melee. The only except being the Hammer.
QuoteWith this I entirely agree. With the first game I would get into a zone where everything just seemed to flow, move to move, in some strange zen trance. It was the most amazing feeling I've ever had in a video game. In the second one, it took me years to recapture that feeling at all, and I still get it only rarely. It may just be that the game is too fast for me. Or maybe that I still usually stick with DK, and he got tremendously nerfed (his grab used to be the best all-around move in the game, IMO). In the original SSB, a player with even a slight edge could win 5-stock games routinely with 3 or more lives left. That almost never happens in the new one, which is a sign that skill counts for less.
SSBM wasn't as well received. The controls were loose and the game moved faster than the previous one and thus was based more on reflex than strategy and skill. A player who mashed buttons in SSB would get absolutely nothing done. A player who button mashes in SSBM can do far more damage, especially with the c-stick at their disposal.
What I would like to see most in next installment: learning AI. Hard to pull off, I'm sure, but it might actually make it possible to hone your skills against AI fighters. I would also like a return of the original bumper, and overall a removal or replacement of useless items.
Post by: Ceric on April 24, 2006, 01:56:46 PM
The more I'm thinking about it the more I think that the multiple Samus suits should come in. Maybe as an Event battle....
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 02:09:29 PM
I dunno about having that playable. I could see perhaps two versions of Samus. One hidden and unlocked and the regular Samus. The unlocked Samus could be the Samus from Echoes, or the new Metroid Prime 3, and focus on elements and moves from the Retro games...and Regular Samus, be well Regular Samus.
If they did that. I would love Dark Samus or whatnot to have the special move to Scan a person and take away a special move at their disposal...like in the Metroid Multiplayer games. That element would be one of the more interesting additions.
Ceric it is also a great idea about the Balloon Fighter dealing with weight of objects. Also what fun would it be to hit him with blunt objects and watching him bounce around with the force of the blow. Sure you can float, but can you handle being knocked around like that?
Final Topic.
The most exciting aspect of this Smash Brothers is the new controller. It is going to be a completely new Smash Brothers game. Radically different, and exciting to play all over again. Melee isn't perfect, but it is a great game. The download service will give us the original in all its glory. This new game needs to play remarkably different and feel fresh and new again.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 24, 2006, 02:28:45 PM
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. Which is disappointing, to me.
"Also, Marth/Roy both rule at 4 player matches because it's immensely easy for a noob Marth/Roy player to simply mash the c-stick into a pair of superior players and catch them off guard, stealing KOs in the process"
Really? I play as Marth and I'm much better at one on one than melee. I guess that has more to do with me having a sense of honor in SSBM. I never edge guard until my opponent reaches 100%+ damage, I think it's cheap. I won't do it even if they do.
And I still win.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 24, 2006, 02:43:47 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 24, 2006, 02:57:49 PM
Although I agree that completely ditching the single player is a VERY silly idea. S_B, just because the series is a multiplayer franchise it doesn't mean it shouldn't feature a good single player campaign. Not all of us can arrange 4 player battles and we WILL spend most of our time playing the single player campaign.
This is how I see it:
Original SSB: Great controls, great concept and excellent multiplayer-Terrible single player campaign
SSB Melee: A lot of extras, an expanded single player campaign-Unbalanced fighting engine-too much emphasis on speed than skill.
Ideally, the third SSB game should have a deep, balanced fighting engine and a lot of multiplayer options without having to sacrifice the single player campaign. In other words, balanced gameplay. Call it the Mario Kart DS principle. That game featured an expanded single player campaign and it still had killer multiplayer.
I agree about ditching the trophies, though. They were nice to look at the first couple of times, became worthless afterwards.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 03:04:18 PM
However, they have already been done. I don't see a reason to revisit trophies.
I do believe something needs to take its place though. Collecting trophies were alot of fun, and the fact that trophies unlocked characters, items, and levels made them even more cool.
Smash Brothers Revolution needs to have something else to collect that brings more value than the trophies did.
Here is a cool idea. How about letting a side team develop an online collectable card game system.
Each person starts with a random starter set and then can unlock and purchase new cards through the regular game. Just like any other Collectable Card Game these cards can be built into a deck and play games online verse other card collectors.
The best part about this would be that this would completely play homage to Nintendo's roots. Finally, if the card game becomes popular Nintendo could even release the series on real cards, and offer special cards for tournament winners.
This would be yet another means to create replay value for the single player and multiplayer games, because you would want to unlock all the cards to play against people.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 24, 2006, 03:11:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
The Trophies were very cool because it allowed you to read up on the history of Nintendo and their franchises.
However, they have already been done. I don't see a reason to revisit trophies.
I do believe something needs to take its place though. Collecting trophies were alot of fun, and the fact that trophies unlocked characters, items, and levels made them even more cool.
Smash Brothers Revolution needs to have something else to collect that brings more value than the trophies did.
Here is a cool idea. How about letting a side team develop an online collectable card game system.
Each person starts with a random starter set and then can unlock and purchase new cards through the regular game. Just like any other Collectable Card Game these cards can be built into a deck and play games online verse other card collectors.
The best part about this would be that this would completely play homage to Nintendo's roots. Finally, if the card game becomes popular Nintendo could even release the series on real cards, and offer special cards for tournament winners.
This would be yet another means to create replay value for the single player and multiplayer games, because you would want to unlock all the cards to play against people.
Yeah I won't deny that they were neat, but you could tell they spent more time on this rather than fine tuning the overall fighting experience. I mean, The raven's trophy DOES have detailed bump mapping...
And they do the collectible card thing and I think S_B will denounce his SSB fandom...
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 03:47:53 PM
The artists were creating the trophies after working on the ingame character models and levels. It must have been a blast to work on all those trophies and I am positive the inclusion of the trophies and the trophy system did not hender the balance of the game in anyway.
Most likely the culprit is the release schedule. The team was working very hard to balance the game for release, but in the end they ran out of time. Not to mention it must be incredibly complex to get a perfect balance when dealing with a game with as many complex variables that Melee had.
But your assertion that the trophies ended up hurting game balance is just not true.
And what is wrong with the collectable card game.
It would be just another aspect to the game you can use or not. It would be very cool...and if you had another team (not working on the actual SSB Revolution) design the game then it could quite an enjoyable deversion for those that want that experience.
Hell they could do trophies\toys\game pieces and do the whole Heroclix route and create a table top strategy game. It would even fit with the theme of Smash Brothers being about toys fighting.
My point is don't knock ideas because you are afraid of them...or you are afraid they will distract or take away from the main game. That is what prevents progress in games from occuring in the first place.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 24, 2006, 04:02:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Pap64: That isn't true. You obviously don't understand game design. You have artists and you have programmers. The programmers work along side the game designers, director and producers to balance the game.
The artists were creating the trophies after working on the ingame character models and levels. It must have been a blast to work on all those trophies and I am positive the inclusion of the trophies and the trophy system did not hender the balance of the game in anyway.
Most likely the culprit is the release schedule. The team was working very hard to balance the game for release, but in the end they ran out of time. Not to mention it must be incredibly complex to get a perfect balance when dealing with a game with as many complex variables that Melee had.
But your assertion that the trophies ended up hurting game balance is just not true.
And what is wrong with the collectable card game.
It would be just another aspect to the game you can use or not. It would be very cool...and if you had another team (not working on the actual SSB Revolution) design the game then it could quite an enjoyable deversion for those that want that experience.
Hell they could do trophies\toys\game pieces and do the whole Heroclix route and create a table top strategy game. It would even fit with the theme of Smash Brothers being about toys fighting.
My point is don't knock ideas because you are afraid of them...or you are afraid they will distract or take away from the main game. That is what prevents progress in games from occuring in the first place.
I'm not saying that the trophies ruined the overall SSB experience. What I am saying is that they spent a lot of time creating trophies, making them look nice and all while they could've used that time to fine tune the character speed and balance. In other words, they spent more time on an extra rather than the actual game itself.
I mean...Do YOU remember the last time you saw the trophies more than once or even bothered to collect them all?
I heavily agree with what you said about the time release. SSB Melee is indeed the victim of a rushed release. The character are heavily unbalanced, there are many bugs in game, too much clone characters etc. Even the trophies are odd numbered and there are some weird inclusions (they have Dixie Kong but no Diddy etc. etc.).
And what I mean about the cards is that if they do something similar to it and they put a lot of emphasis on that instead of the multiplayer matches you will have people like S_B that will be angry at the game because of it. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea and that it shouldn't be implemented. In fact, I agree with you about games having more variety and your ideas DO sound very good.
But what I am saying is that you will have hardcore players like S_B here that will probably explode a vein of two if they find out that they did nothing with the fighting engine and instead decided to focus on an extra like card collecting.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 04:10:03 PM
Well the hardcore players can have their regular Smash Brothers Revolution. They don't have to play any of the extras. I want extras though. I really don't care if they impliment the card game or not. I just was giving an example of a really cool idea they could impliment to make collecting worthwhile.
Post by: Ceric on April 24, 2006, 04:20:40 PM
That being said if they made sure that the cards never touched the inner dynamic of the game that be fine. Much like trophies never affected the game But I do think HeroClix style would work better or even Dungeon Dice Monsters, its actually pretty good. Also the trophies could be easily ignored and all the artist had to make those models anyway. Putting a generic stand on them didn't take any time.
I think that the history they gave was very valuable. Sort of like in Kingdom of Hearts they tell you the origin of each character that has one, not in detail but there first appearance. Its fun trivia to know. *Announcer voice*"True fans want to know." I personally would like more trivia. Like what was the idea behind the Power Flower?
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on April 24, 2006, 04:34:17 PM
I'll elaborate later... must smash now
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on April 24, 2006, 04:38:55 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 05:17:04 PM
The card game was just my first thought. Though, I think more people would collect and play collectable games (be it card or table tob) if they weren't COLLECTABLE. I hate the idea that someone with more money can build a better team or deck than someone that doesn't have the same resources.
With the collectable game built into the game...it becomes skill and time spent playing that allows people to collect the best pieces/cards in the game and that is completely fair in my opinion.
The more I play games the more I really enjoy them, and I really would like to help design many times of games. (As well as other media types...) however I do not believe I have the creative experience, or knowledge to create anything enjoyable right now in my life. Perhaps later when I have more experience.
By the way my number one favorite game I never play because I suck and nobody else even desires to play the game is: GO!
Final Subject:
Avinash Tyagi: I agree with you that we need more female players, but what other female characters does Nintendo have?
Daisy could become playable, but wouldn't she be similar to Peach? I guess you could change her up and make her a powerhouse.
Birdo is technically a girl now...so you could have her. (And for those saying she isn't a girl...think about this there are several of the species of Birdo so the modern Birdo is a female and the older one is not.)
Post by: Ceric on April 24, 2006, 05:23:47 PM
I do not like games that shoe horn it in because the creators aren't creative enough to do something better. Even if thats turn based. It happened to PSO, Kingdom of Hearts, and I have only found two card based RPGs that were worth the Silicon they were burned on. I just find cards make games that weren't card games first worse.
Just to clear things up.
Spak-Spang: Heroclix is cool. I use to play in the local tournaments, and get whooped, a few years back. Still have my pieces if there are any your are looking for that are older I might have it. My friends play GO. We use to have a club here for a while.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2006, 05:36:43 PM
The only reason I collect Heroclix is to play against my one friend that also collects. He plays the old Fantastic 4 team...which is really quite a bad team.
I like those types of games I just hate the collectability fashion and rare aspects of the game. Its stupid. I just wish I could buy smaller entire sets for like $20, and get like 20 figures. Then it would be better.
Post by: Ceric on April 25, 2006, 04:10:25 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 25, 2006, 04:29:39 AM
But I think we need to change the subject back to Smash Brothers.
The original idea was to create some game that you can use the collectables in...and have the game multiplayer online.
The easiest game to create in those regards would be a simple collectible card battle game. Not very original though.
The harder but perhaps more enjoyable would be a turnbased strategy game like Heroclix, MechWarrior and such.
In the end, though I think this idea is very much wishful thinking because it is asking for too much in a game that needs to be quickly, at launch or within the launch Window.
Post by: Ceric on April 25, 2006, 04:40:03 AM
(Takes the trophies you have and give them values to be used accordingly)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 25, 2006, 06:41:11 AM
Post by: EasyCure on April 25, 2006, 03:49:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteThat you want them to deliberately unbalance characters to reflect their "realistic" fighting strengths.
haha what makes me insane?
fair enough, but thats not what i meant. i dont want them to turn smash into a "realistic" fighter like soul caliber or something, i simply wanted to state my opionion; that I personally liked that addition of realism, the balance they added to them. im not saying "oh pikachu can never pick up DK thats so unrealistic i dont want it in my game" i simply said that making characters more powerful and slightly slower adds a balance to the game even though it takes away slightly from the fighter. i would of liked to have seen lighter characters have powerful attacks to counter the heavywieghts instead of being whipping boys.
i said in one post that if you're good iwth a character, you're good with a character; it comes down to the skill ultimately. balancing/unbalancing characters helps those who want to become skillful to the game. unless i practice with DK or Bowser i'll never win a match because the faster characters will kick my ass. if i go back and play the original smash, i would play no different with dk as i would with yoshi. agian, thats all just my opinion so let me be insane...its my thread!!!!
Post by: zakkiel on April 25, 2006, 04:05:37 PM
QuoteI have nothing against insanity, I just point it out when I see it. And I absolutely disagree that there was no difference between playing DK and Yoshi in the original. Play styles were every bit as different between characters in the original as they are now. Also, I don't understand how you can sat that lighter characters are whipping boys when the entire top tier is light- to medium-weight.
i said in one post that if you're good iwth a character, you're good with a character; it comes down to the skill ultimately. balancing/unbalancing characters helps those who want to become skillful to the game. unless i practice with DK or Bowser i'll never win a match because the faster characters will kick my ass. if i go back and play the original smash, i would play no different with dk as i would with yoshi. agian, thats all just my opinion so let me be insane...its my thread!!!!
Post by: EasyCure on April 25, 2006, 04:24:03 PM
Post by: zakkiel on April 25, 2006, 07:28:40 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 25, 2006, 07:37:50 PM
I just use Pikachu and 90% of the time the C-stick...
... I feel so inadequate.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Luffy1Piece on April 25, 2006, 09:39:44 PM
Wario
9-Volt
Ashley
Jill
Andy
Ivan or Mia
Pit
Little Mac
Alice(Balloon Kid)
Takamaru
Goku & Chamu
Starfi
Stanley the Bugman
Classic Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
I want to see this game do things that make it feel fresh and new and not just SSBM with prettier graphics. Perhaps a shift to being fully 3D with the Freehand Controller capabilities would allow many great new ideas to be implemented.
Post by: Michael8983 on April 25, 2006, 11:24:37 PM
I've always thought a Smash Bros game in the fully 3D style of Capcom's Power Stone would be awesome. But I don't know if I'd want it to replace the traditional Smash Bros style.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on April 26, 2006, 01:06:08 AM
Quote
Avinash Tyagi: I agree with you that we need more female players, but what other female characters does Nintendo have? Daisy could become playable, but wouldn't she be similar to Peach? I guess you could change her up and make her a powerhouse.
They have a few characters who have been Japanese only up to this point, you see some of them as trophies in SSBM, also they could use Daisy as a variant character kind of like Luigi is a variant of Mario, and Peach is already a very strong fighter(arguably the best of the current female fighters).
Post by: EasyCure on April 26, 2006, 09:47:18 AM
do smash attacks by holding the controller to the left for a second or two and then swiftly swinging it to the right (sorry i cant give you credit it was so long ago)
how else could it take advantage of the controller though, or does anyone think it might go the Mario Kart DS route and be more traditional. the set up was so simple that adding motion sensing would only complicate it, atleast thats how i feel until someone can give me a good example. actually on second though turning the revmote into a big 3d analog stick would probably be he best way to go the more i think about it. control movement and blocking and pickingup/throwing items with the left hand (analog and z1/2) then you could have the revmote be your action hand. flick up + b or a for a move. maybe they could have more moves if they add diagnal angles to the mix. say you hold b for links arrow and you can then move it anywhere in a 180degree angle in front of you. shoot arrows straight up/down or at angles (like in soul caliber).
you could opt to use the larger A button and B triggers or to keep t hings simple, use the small b + a buttons near the bottom of the controller.
Post by: Caterkiller on April 26, 2006, 10:07:18 AM
Post by: Ceric on April 26, 2006, 10:16:15 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on April 26, 2006, 06:21:31 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 26, 2006, 07:58:58 PM
I don't them to just be push button stuff, but I want something that can calculate stringing moves together to hit several characters.
Perhaps count combos as normal, but also tally Strings in which it is how many successful hits on opponents you can do without getting hit or going 2-3 seconds without attacking someone.
Post by: Kairon on April 26, 2006, 08:14:50 PM
I LOVED Melee because it was, for once, a fighting game that WASN'T about pressing lots of buttons and stringing combos...much. Especially in 4-player matches, it was about strategy and placement and spatial relationships as much as anything else.
I am a Pikachu player. I use the c-stick. And I'm proud of it.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 26, 2006, 08:29:17 PM
I love Melee for exactly the same reason. I can't stand most fighter games.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 26, 2006, 09:21:51 PM
Hypothetical situation:
Say none of the trophies were ever created. That's hundreds of manhours which did not need to be paid to the artists so there's more money in the budget for other additions to the game.
What could these additions be? More levels, characters, testing for balance...generally anything which would enhance the multiplayer longevity of the game.
Anyone who says, "Oh, there wouldn't have been more characters/levels/balance if they hadn't pissed money away on developing the trophies." is a FOOL who clearly doesn't understand economics. With the time and money saved by not having the artists make these idiotic little trophies, I'm more than willing to bet we could have at LEAST given Ganondorf his own moveset, and that ALONE would have been worth scrapping the trophies.
If you weighted the total time played in SSB Single Player vs. total time played in multiplayer, I think you'll find that multiplayer is ahead by a healthy 200:1 ratio. My SSB cartridge logged over 700 hours of gameplay on it before we switched to melee. How often do you think single player was played after all the crap was unlocked? That's right: it WASN'T.
The trophies add NOTHING to the multiplayer gameplay. NOTHING. No one buys SSB so they can play it alone (unless so they can practice and get better against other players, something which happens better in vs. matches than "break the targets" mini-games).
What is the fascination with ensuring that EVERY game has a single player mode? World of Warcraft is probably the most successful MMORPG in the world, and it DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE PLAYER MODE!!!!! WHOAMG!!!!!!!! You can't even PLAY the damn game OFFline!
SSB should be the BEST MULTIPLAYER EXPERIENCE THAT IT CAN BE. Want a single player experience on the Rev? Buy Twilight Princess, Mario 128, Red Steel, or any of the other dozens of games which are dedicated to offering an excellent single player experience.
SSB: Rev needs to be the BEST multiplayer game that it can be, ever, and if SSB: Rev has clones with textures that don't connect, Ganondorf doesn't have at least ONE goddamn bladed weapon, and there are over a thousand trophies to collect, then someone at HAL Labs needs to commit seppuko because they f*cking FAILED.
AI that learns is a good idea because it's the closest that someone with no online connection has to playing against opponents which will mimic human players. Beyond that, HAL can work on the single player aspect only after the multiplayer is so good it puts the game in the running for GOTY.
Halo outsold SSBM. A brand new franchise on a brand new console beat Nintendo's tried and tested franchise with a huge following.
SSB: Rev is going to be Nintendo's FLAGSHIP multiplayer WIFI title. If someone is going to buy a Rev to go online, this game is going to be the primary reason. This game NEEDS to kick ass and take NAMES in the multiplayer department, and if that means slacking on the single player offering, so be it.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 26, 2006, 09:28:06 PM
Sorry, I don't condone making it suck even more. It can be salvaged into a healthy, fun experience... adventure mode was a step in the right direction, but singleplayer needs more work, not less.
Post by: Kairon on April 26, 2006, 10:41:38 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 26, 2006, 10:44:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 26, 2006, 11:26:14 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on April 27, 2006, 12:27:21 AM
Get me the CDC
Post by: Mario on April 27, 2006, 02:02:48 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 27, 2006, 04:46:10 AM
SSBM had a single player experience like that called the Event Battles. They were brilliant in their challenge and design, but rewarded you for accomplishing the tasks, not just random you one this battle screen.
I think it is safe to say that the game will be polished and have solid gameplay (Nintendo usually doesn't have ass its big games.) So the only question is going to be will we enjoy the control changes that come with the Revolution controller. I believe we will. I can see the control system really changing the entire experience for the better.
Post by: Ceric on April 27, 2006, 05:04:51 AM
I liked getting trophies. I don't like not having any rewards. I don't play Smash now because it is very hard for me to find friends to play with and that makes it hard for me to achieve unlocking anything. No achievement I don't see the point. I don't play MMORPGs because I find that its very hard to find people to play with, I've tried most and most of the time I end up only doing the quests I can do alone (aka Single Player) because I can't find and sustain a party (Even PSO was the same way, I find a party finally and when I got lucky we have some really good runs or I get unlucky and they want to just stand and talk, and that did take the model that is argued for SSBRev). Also grinding in anything interesting always takes forever and is super repetative, which was ok in PSO for some reason I don't know what Sega did but I've got over 100 hours logged on 1 character doing almost the exact same thing. I do play epic RPGs, Mario Karts, Quirky DS games, etc. All Single player.
I grew up playing Single Player. To me it really is the heart of the game. This is what they wanted to get across. In SSBM Event and Adventure mode offered unique gameplay I couldn't get in Multiplayer.
Smash_Brother: Comparing World of Warcraft to SSB is like comparing apple to oranges. You would have been better with comparing StarCraft to SSB if you keep with Blizzard. I prefer my games well rounded. Especially Smash Brothers. If they announced that it would only be Multiplayer style. I don't care how good it is I won't pick it up. It be like if you had to have Four people to play Four Swords or FF:CC. You don't they have single player and are good that way too, though FF:CC would be better if they expanded the little stories they give you at the begining of the level each time you come back but I digress.
So in the end I think that things like the Trophies and the Single player are the Yellow imperfection in the Green Ring that makes the whole kit and caboodle work as well as it does.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 27, 2006, 06:09:26 AM
Quote
Anyone who says, "Oh, there wouldn't have been more characters/levels/balance if they hadn't pissed money away on developing the trophies." is a FOOL who clearly doesn't understand economics. With the time and money saved by not having the artists make these idiotic little trophies, I'm more than willing to bet we could have at LEAST given Ganondorf his own moveset, and that ALONE would have been worth scrapping the trophies.
Do you think the programmers and level designers spent even one moment just twiddling their thumbs? They worked full time, probably crunch time, to get the game ready. I know the old saying "time is money," but freeing up money in the budget DOES NOT free up extra time. It may allow the hiring of additional programmers, but that does not always (or even usually) make work faster, as anyone in the business world will attest. You'd have to keep the artists on the payroll anyway to animate all those new moves.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 27, 2006, 08:16:49 AM
I would like to see some new items with more diversty in their benefits.
Legend of Zelda Items:
Mirror Shield: Deflects all projectiles and absorbs damage from attacks blocked with it. After it takes about 75-100% damage it breaks. The Shield can also be used to attack by swinging it around.
Giant Hammer: The Hammer can act like the Bat with Smash attacked. But with a normal attack it reacts as a slow powerful attack causing massive damage percentage. This weapon can't be thrown.
Ocarina: Allows a character to teleport once out of trouble.
Various Lasers:
Bouncing Beam: A gun whose blasts will bounce off of walls, shields, and such. This weapon would be great for trick shots against opponents.
Short Range Spread Beam: A staple of all shooting games is the spread shot. Contra is the classic example of this gun. Smash Brothers needs a short range version of this gun that shoots out a wide spread shot of 4 blasts which have a short range before they disappear.
Metroid Items:
Metroids should be like the Bob-Bombs. They are unleashed on the field and attack the characters with the strongest life. After causing knocked off its victim it will automatically move to another victim until killed.
Metroid Health items could replace some of the food items to allow more Metroid items in the mix.
Targeting Visor: collect the targeting visor and projectiles and items you throw will automatically target the closest character to you. It won't home in on the characters, but it will give you the ability to attack diagonially and such.
Various other elements.
I would like something new done with Pikachu. I think it would be cool that if you allow him to take 150%-200% damage he can evolve into Ryachu. This will cause Pikachu to be slower, but have more powerful attacks and be heavier (harder to knock off) Once evolved Ryachu can use healing items and stay the same. If the character is killed Pikachu returns to the game.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 27, 2006, 09:18:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
How about we move this conversation back to the original discussion topic. What we want to see in Smash Bros. Revolution.
That's fair.
I want to see multiplayer so polished and full of depth that never will anyone say, "Was this game rushed?". I don't want to see clones, and I don't want to see the same 3-5 characters winning every tournament.
Post by: Ceric on April 27, 2006, 11:12:14 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 27, 2006, 12:43:10 PM
Post by: Ceric on April 28, 2006, 03:23:28 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 28, 2006, 04:39:27 AM
Post by: Ceric on April 28, 2006, 04:43:26 AM
Eidt: As mentioned a while back that Sega Arcade game would be on interesting rev title.
Post by: EasyCure on April 28, 2006, 08:07:29 AM
even a few smaller things would make me happy; for instance i never liked the food items in Mellee, they felt really out of place. they should just have items from the games themselves instead of those 'real world' items. they should be themed.
a mushroom from mario wouldnt work becuase they already have those, but say a small heart from the LoZ to take 5% off your damage counter. the different energy capsules from metriod, a hamburger DX from EB, things like that. that way you can keep the Nintendo-verse feel without breaking it because you see rice balls and ice cream cones on the battle field. each item would take off more damge from your mete, the heart container being the ultimate...that is unless there was a 1-up mushroom (stock matches only) that appeared VERY rarely and would add 1 more life to your character. and you thought scrambling for the heart container and super star were crazy...
a more interactive EB level would be cool too. fourside kinda blew in Mellee, they should of had Cute lil UFO's attacking you randomly. they wouldnt be very strong but they could shoot down a beam that would stun you in place for a second, giving another player an advantage to SMASH you off the stage. or Crested Bookas breathing fire on you or something.
a new metroid stage could have space pirate attacks, or random releases of metroids. if you don't destroy it they get bigger with the energy syphoned from each character. i like stages like that, with lots of interaction. i just dont want to see ALL stages like that. sometimes you just need a plain level (final destination) to lay the smack down on your mofo friends
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 28, 2006, 08:17:50 AM
The levels to me need tons of interaction, but not tons of chaos.
The scrolling levels, although cool, really made battles more frustrating than fun. Instead of going that direction so much...have characters, creatures, items, themed events that fit the level work. Also more changing levels like the Pokemon level could be cool.
Yoshi's Story Book level, should have pages that turn and then the Level Pops Up like a Children's book. Each Page could represent a different level or different theme from the game.
Post by: Crimm on April 28, 2006, 10:27:11 AM
One clone I'd like is Oni Link (from Majora's Mask). Oni Link was simply awesome, but not usable for enough time.
I'd like more unique challenges ("defeat these 300 guys"). Something like "defeat Giant's Mask Link." A huge level that is unique in the game.
More interactive environments. Big Blue was a pain, but it was also cool.
Pitt. Sweet lord give us Pitt. Think about it, if they DO decide to make a Kid Icarus game, Pitt could reintroduce the series to new players.
More battle types- there were a lot before, but more can't hurt.
Online OFFICIAL - tournaments. They had a few tournaments for Melee, but I don't live near any of the sites. Take a page from XBox-Live and give us online tournaments (with prizes).
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 28, 2006, 11:10:24 AM
I must say Oni Link was cool, but I can't see having 3 Links...only 2.
Cel-Link and Regular Link.
Oni Link would be a great Skin for Regular Link though.
Official tournaments is a must, and Nintendo has already ventured towards this with Mario Golf's tournaments, so I think that is a given.
Post by: EasyCure on April 28, 2006, 07:17:34 PM
"Easycure: I love your 1Up Idea for stock battles. That would be great.
The levels to me need tons of interaction, but not tons of chaos"
thank you Spak-spang; i kinda pulled that idea out of my ass though ol.
and i looove chaos in the matches. especially with more than two combatants. i didnt like the Mute City level but i thought Big Blue rocked. the pokemon stadium level was fun too but i wish there were some hazards with it as well. say the level turns water based and a blastoise or something pops up from somewhere (ala safron city level in smash1). throw a voltorb into the mix anyday!
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 30, 2006, 05:38:05 PM
I just am not a big fan of the moving/scrolling levels. To me they take away from planned combat and create a complexity that is uninviting.
Speaking of level effects. I wish there was more of that in game...and not just things that hurt you, but that effect you in other ways.
How about QuickSand in a desert level that you can knock opponents in and slow them up. (Like the Sand in Super Mario Brothers 2)
How about Conveyor Belts, or Boost Arrows that if you walk across give you a push forward?
Or a futuristic level that has an Anti-Gravity switch with different settings. The Highest setting has you battling on the ceiling (Flipped over of course)
I think you could create some pretty imaginative level devices that could make levels interesting and feel new, but not have a scrolling effect.
Post by: eljefe on April 30, 2006, 05:49:39 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 30, 2006, 07:56:40 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 01, 2006, 04:45:19 AM
But I figure with less gravity side Smashes would be easier, as they are going to fly further away with each hit.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 01, 2006, 07:56:10 AM
Only if gravity affects the time until the character is controllable again, otherwise it merely forces you to hit the enemy across the boundary right away instead of seeing him drop out on his recovery attempt.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 02, 2006, 05:29:52 AM
This wouldn't be based on reality with low gravity. But more a cartoon version of such a feat. Hence with the lowest gravity characters could actually flip around and walk on the ceiling.
However, if you feel that wouldn't work. You could just have a lower gravity level...and have the level be designed as to look more like the Joust levels. Small Platforms spread out across great distance to travel. Perhaps have the level be more Vertically focused than horizontally. Just for kicks.
Post by: EasyCure on May 02, 2006, 03:49:39 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 03, 2006, 01:13:04 PM
How about instead of calling it a Pinball level...you just call it an Odami level.
Post by: Hocotate on May 03, 2006, 11:52:08 PM
I think theres a very good chance we'll see TP and WW link, Wario, something from Pikmin, and more Pokemon. What I really want to see is something that I never would've thought of ( ala Ice Climbers). That's one of my fav NES games, but I didn't even think of them being in SSBM. I also want to see Nintendo characters that I don't even know exsist.
Post by: Kairon on May 03, 2006, 11:56:18 PM
All I want the game to be is what they intend it to be. The saddest thing to play is a game where you can feel what it almost is, but it's been chopped off at the knees.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: EasyCure on May 04, 2006, 06:17:29 AM
as for having characters from nintendo you didnt even know existed? i say have a character from Burger Time. i dont know if that was made my nintendo or another developer but everytime i think of a game that no one else has really heard about, i think of that. no one ever really believes me when i tell them what you do in the game either, they just look at me like im making it all up.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 04, 2006, 09:00:21 AM
Post by: wandering on May 07, 2006, 11:15:39 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on May 07, 2006, 11:56:21 PM
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 04:34:10 AM
cuz i've wanted a gameboy camera2 for awhile now. i still feel hurt inside when i play perfect dark and know that at one point in time i could of had my face in the game; to be shot at heavily by all my friends.
i still think they should release it in conjunction with mario paint/artist if they desire to bring that back. it would be perfect for the Wii, just like a bob ross game would, except with all the aspects of the original, and expanding upon them like the 64DD games.
i would love to make 3d images, as well as animate in 3d and be able to crop my face into one of the animations. imagine if they make it wifi compatible so you can have, what another poster called (in another thread), a "refrigerator" where we can post all of our photos to a nintendo server. you send it to them, they rate it and only the best ones make it up there. you can send music and animations you create to your buddy's and they can add to them and send it back, and.....MULTIPLAYER FLYSWATTING GAME!!
but thats off topic
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 08, 2006, 08:19:27 AM
Donkey Kong could have barrel cannons, Vines, metal contstruction railing...and the likes.
Blending levels together would be fun and make a bizzare little world to play in.
Post by: Zach on May 08, 2006, 08:52:06 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 08, 2006, 10:45:37 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 08, 2006, 11:22:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
I very generic level designer would be really nice, maybe even an option to design your own adventure level
YES!
I always wanted to create "The Box" as a level in SSB.
It would be a square with a small hole in the top of it. The idea would be that people would have to get so insanely high in damage that they'd need to ricochet until they went through the hole. It would result in some of the most chaotic battles ever, especially with tons of explosives.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 11:29:38 AM
[/sarcasm]
Post by: Kairon on May 08, 2006, 11:50:29 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 11:54:04 AM
Post by: zakkiel on May 08, 2006, 12:02:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
wow, they just told you in your face they dont care about what you think and you find it acceptable? jesus...
Actually, I think it's great. The hardcore online gaming population is the whiniest, bitchiest, and reactionary segment of the population you could ever hope to find. You can build mountains on their sense of entitlement and stun an army of rhinoceri with the thickness of their skulls. The less attention Nintendo pays to them, the better.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 12:08:40 PM
Post by: zakkiel on May 08, 2006, 12:11:01 PM
Post by: Requiem on May 08, 2006, 12:14:21 PM
You think if Nintendo listened to us that they would of created the Wii?
Hell no...
Do you like the Wii?
Case in Point.
Post by: EasyCure on May 08, 2006, 05:40:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Zach
Ive just come up with an idea for a level that I think would be awesome. It would be the versus mode from the old school mario games. The one with the multiple levels, pipes on either side, and the pow block in the middle. (it might have to be tweaked a little to allow for side kills). That would be some retro goodness I hope I am the first to post about that, I dont feel like scimming through 9 pages to find out
yes, yes you are the first to suggest that as far as i can remember
Post by: wandering on May 08, 2006, 11:12:57 PM
Quote
wandering, did you mean have the camera mode sent to the ds via wifi or physical connection and be able to take pics of smash from on screen, or just a general camera for ds to take and send photos?
cuz i've wanted a gameboy camera2 for awhile now.
I was thinking using it for camera mode, although a gameboy camera 2 would indeed be cool.
Quote
wow, they just told you in your face they dont care about what you think and you find it acceptable?
Yep. I'm not sure why you think games designed by a one hundred thousand man committee would somehow be better than what Nintendo makes now.
