Post by: Smash_Brother on April 09, 2006, 09:39:46 PM
Games like Wario World on the GC offered GBA connectivity which copied a few Wario Ware mini-games to your GBA for you to try. AC did the same with NES games.
The demo download centers in stores are a nice idea, but what about people who don't live anywhere near one? I've already touted the merits of downloading NES, SNES and maybe N64 games to DS from the Rev's Virtual Console, but I can think of no better way to sell DS games then to let the Rev be the gateway to sampling any and all possible games.
The Rev could access these demos without any hardware changing or anything, just connect to the demo server which would be updated regularly with upcoming DS game demos.
First of all, it would give those of us who are REEEALLLY looking forward to a game something to whet our appetites.
Second, it gives DS owners the ability to test drive the games they want right from their own home, wirelessly and without hassle.
The closest DS download center to me is 45 minutes away. I'm curious about Brain Age but not THAT curious. It makes perfect sense to allow the Rev to be a download center: there's almost no cost to Nintendo, you download the demos as you want them and you can know which games you want to preorder before they hit shelves (or ship to you via Gamestop). You could even add yourself to a mailing list which announces when new DS demos are up for download.
Rev game demos would also be a welcome addition (the 360 already does this), but unlike MS, Nintendo has to consider connectivity to it's insanely popular handheld a big issue: this would just add one more reason on the growing list of reasons to own a Rev. I'm sure many people would buy one just for the Virtual Console and DS demos alone.
So let's hope Nintendo reps read PGC. I think this would be too good of an idea to pass up.
Post by: jasonditz on April 09, 2006, 10:05:19 PM
Post by: TrueNerd on April 09, 2006, 10:59:21 PM
But could you imagine! Super Metroid. Super Mario RPG. Kirby's Dream Course. IN YOUR EFFING POCKET.
I guess I would be satisfied with the Rev being a Download Station, but as always, I crave more.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on April 10, 2006, 12:05:02 AM
Post by: 18 Days on April 10, 2006, 07:31:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Let's take it one step further and copy Sony (for a change) and let the DS download NES and SNES games from the virtual console. Of course, they'd have to somehow make those games not disappear when the DS powered down...
But could you imagine! Super Metroid. Super Mario RPG. Kirby's Dream Course. IN YOUR EFFING POCKET.
I guess I would be satisfied with the Rev being a Download Station, but as always, I crave more.
I feel uncomfortable with the dubious screen resolution issue this could create.
Post by: Kairon on April 10, 2006, 09:11:38 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 10, 2006, 12:17:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, ideally you'd want to keep the DS downloading Demos in stores so that you have a social networking place for DS gamers.
I understand that point, but:
1. It increases the chance of creepy pedophiles sleazing around the DS download stations (yeah, it's bull, but it's bad press Nintendo doesn't need).
2. Updating the DS download centers actually requires work on the part of the stores and you have no way of knowing in advance if the demo you want to try is available. On the Rev, they update the demos at Nintendo's ISP and every Rev owner has access to them.
3. Why bother letting people download demos when you could just as easily have DSs on display running the same demos? Why do people need to play on THEIR DS? All this does is invite theft when thieves can say with a straight face that they brought the DS in with them to try the demos.
4. Many people are too damn busy to drive to a store just to try out some games. I love the DS because it's the busy person's handheld: you close the thing, it freezes the action of whatever game you were playing and you put it in your pocket until the next inactive moment rolls around. The Rev would offer these demos to people who just don't want to waste the time and gas to drive to a store to try these games.
5. Plenty of people order games online for the aforementioned reason instead of buying them in stores. If a customer doesn't want to leave their home but would still like to try/buy your products, why not let them?
Post by: KirbySStar on April 10, 2006, 02:46:37 PM
The only thing reasonable is a DS demo download station being used in the Rev. I definitely think they'll do this. I think every company would want to hop on to that so anyone can download a demo of their game so they can see if they want it. It will get them more sales.
Post by: IceCold on April 10, 2006, 03:02:23 PM
Post by: vudu on April 11, 2006, 09:16:11 AM
With the demo units in stores only, it doesn't make much sense to go to the store everytime you want to play the game, but if you can download it at home it makes it much easier to get by playing the demo and not buy the game.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 11, 2006, 10:03:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Another big problem (for Nintendo) with this idea is that you can get a lot out of certain games from just the demo (examples that come to mind are puzzle games such as Meteos and Tetris). If you could download these in the comfort of your own home there wouldn't be a whole lot stopping people from downloading the demo to their DS everytime they want to play one of these games. This doesn't really work for games with levels or a sense of progression, but simple puzzle games can show the player almost everything the game has to offer in a single round.
With the demo units in stores only, it doesn't make much sense to go to the store everytime you want to play the game, but if you can download it at home it makes it much easier to get by playing the demo and not buy the game.
Easy, retire the demo after a while and replace it with another demo. That way, people don't abuse the demo and try the game out if the liked the demo.
I honestly don't understand why you guys see this as a bad idea for Nintendo. It makes perfect sense. It conveniently places demos of the greatest games in the gamer's hands. S_B is right that not EVERYBODY has the opportunity to go to a store and try the game out. Hell, I don't have that option AT ALL! Nintendo will reach a broader audience with this idea.
Again, it makes perfect sense. The demos will NOT prevent people from buying the full game the demos only offer a small chunk of the game. A demo is meant to leave people wanting for more if the game is good, and if they want more, they will go out and buy the demo.
Once again, I don't understand why you see this as a bad idea...
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 10:48:24 AM
I like the idea of simply cycling the demos out. All in all, I think they'd garner more sales from players being able to try the demos right away than they'd garner moochers who never intend to buy the game. Besides, if the demo goes away, that's incentive to buy the game right there (or never turn their DS off, which they'll have to do eventually).
Post by: Fro on April 11, 2006, 11:45:08 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 12:40:25 PM
Also that would be great for kids who don't have a download station within walking/biking distance. Mom won't take you to Best Buy to try the demos? No problem, just put the DS into "download" mode and wander around your neighborhood. Sooner or later you're bound to find somebody who's got their Rev turned on.
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 12:45:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KirbySStar
Yeah, I don't even understand where people are getting the idea they'll be playing SNES and N64 games on their DS. They are just way too big without having their own cartridge and Nintendo isn't going to be releasing a cartridge for people to do that. .
They might. Making the Rev the DS's avenue to VC content would have a lot of DS owners buying a Rev just for that.
N64 is probably unreasonable (I suppose you could alter a few games like they did with Mario 64), but SNES, NES, and Genesis games make plenty of sense. A minor stetch or shrink to get the game to fit is not going to be a big deal.
Post by: AnyoneEB on April 11, 2006, 02:33:45 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 02:43:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
What would be very cool is if the Rev could broadcast as a DS download station even when a game is being played. So for instance someone walking by your house could download the demo they want off of your rev. If every online-enabled Rev is doubling as a DS download station whenever it's playing, they'd have a huge amount of coverage.
Also that would be great for kids who don't have a download station within walking/biking distance. Mom won't take you to Best Buy to try the demos? No problem, just put the DS into "download" mode and wander around your neighborhood. Sooner or later you're bound to find somebody who's got their Rev turned on.
As much as I hate to say it (and disagree with their sentiment), people would probably categorize that under the "scary pedophiles would use it to lure children" heading. I think it's a neat idea, though.
On another note, what IS the DS's internal flash memory, anyway?
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 02:56:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
On another note, what IS the DS's internal flash memory, anyway?
There's a little non-volitile memory (to save a few internal settings), but as far as I know, I don't think there's any that's available just for general purposes by userland apps.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 03:01:15 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 03:02:54 PM
Post by: Jensen on April 11, 2006, 03:46:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
3. Why bother letting people download demos when you could just as easily have DSs on display running the same demos? Why do people need to play on THEIR DS? All this does is invite theft when thieves can say with a straight face that they brought the DS in with them to try the demos.
I don't see how it will help thieves. All the stores I've been to have the DS locked behind glass or in the back room.
When I was at a store downloading a demo, two others came in to get demos. Three of us in a small store playing DS games. Don't you think that that might pique the curiosity of other customers? It gives exposure to the DS in the most important of places. What if they have a pre-release Zelda DS demo? I can imagine a lot of people going to try that out.
I've been in at least 7 stores with DS demo units, and most of them will probably get wifi demo stations. On the other hand I haven't seen any PSP demo units in stores... except one store that had a PSP that only played videos.
I personally would like to get the game demos from my own house, of course, but I think this is a smart move on Nintendo's part.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 11, 2006, 04:51:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JensenQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
3. Why bother letting people download demos when you could just as easily have DSs on display running the same demos? Why do people need to play on THEIR DS? All this does is invite theft when thieves can say with a straight face that they brought the DS in with them to try the demos.
I don't see how it will help thieves. All the stores I've been to have the DS locked behind glass or in the back room.
When I was at a store downloading a demo, two others came in to get demos. Three of us in a small store playing DS games. Don't you think that that might pique the curiosity of other customers? It gives exposure to the DS in the most important of places. What if they have a pre-release Zelda DS demo? I can imagine a lot of people going to try that out.
I've been in at least 7 stores with DS demo units, and most of them will probably get wifi demo stations. On the other hand I haven't seen any PSP demo units in stores... except one store that had a PSP that only played videos.
I personally would like to get the game demos from my own house, of course, but I think this is a smart move on Nintendo's part.
Yeah, but again, not everyone is lucky to find seven stores with Wi-Fi downloads. S_B already mentioned that for him it's a 45 minute ride, and I am in Puerto Rico and no stores have Wi-Fi downloads. If this was done, it would help out the fans that can't go to a store and download a demo.
If Nintendo implemented both, it would be the best of two worlds:
- Not everyone can find a store with Wi-Fi downloads. If Nintendo offers DS demos through the Rev. they can try the latest demos out.
- Not everyone has a broadband connection, so those that can drive to a store they can download the demos. You can get the demos instantly when you are away from home.
DS Demos at stores is a good idea, it really is. But it would be even better if Nintendo offered you the chance to download said demos at home through the Rev.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 05:18:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
it's storing it in system ram, that's why you lose it when you turn the power off.
The RAM being used by the DS is not its DRAM but actual internal storage. It DOES have some which is designed to be lost when the DS is powered off, yes, but it's in there.
If the games saved to the system's memory, then the DS wouldn't be able to use that memory to function any longer, meaning that a graphic-intensive game like MPH would never be able to have single card play and yet it does.
I ask because I'm unsure how much storage the DS has. If it has 64 Mb, it could potentially store some N64 games.
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 06:12:31 PM
It seems reasonable that it doesn't have such a thing. After all, the GBA offered single cart multiplay in it's sub 300K working environment. It would also explain why single-card multiplay on the DS always involves a limited featureset. That's why when you're playing single card MPH, everyone has to play as Samus.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 06:40:44 PM
It supposedly has 4 MB of memory on board (not counting the 650k or so of VRAM).
Are N64 games measured in Mega BITS or BYTES? I can never remember...
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 07:15:22 PM
Remember, that MPH client doesn't have any AI in it, and only one controllable character. Even smallish N64 games like Goldeneye had quite a bit deeper multiplayer modes, and those games also had fully featured single player modes.
Something like a Play-Yan for the VC might be entirely possible though... although since there aren't enough buttons, emulating the N64 would still be a dicey proposition.
Post by: Jensen on April 11, 2006, 07:34:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Yeah, but again, not everyone is lucky to find seven stores with Wi-Fi downloads.
There is only one store with wifi downloads within 50 miles of me... I'm just saying that 5 other stores near me with DS demo units are likely to get wireless downloads.
Downloading from the Rev is fine with me, though :-)
And if you can't do that, just buy a $20 wifi card for your computer that is compatible with download play... no need to h@x0r your DS.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 08:53:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
Something like a Play-Yan for the VC might be entirely possible though... although since there aren't enough buttons, emulating the N64 would still be a dicey proposition.
Sh!t, every time this discussion comes up, I completely forget about the lack of the necessary buttons on the DS...
My bad. That wouldn't work.
Post by: Nephilim on April 12, 2006, 05:15:21 AM
just cause u can download demo's in usa and japan and doesnt mean u have to ruin it for the rest of the world and beselfish
The fact is demo stations in stores are barely used these days iv noticed, they use to be really popular back in the snes days but these days, most ppl ignore them
I dont think retailers would be annoyed if you could also try them at home, if this was the case, wouldnt they all be mad at 360 live download demo's
Post by: jasonditz on April 12, 2006, 05:39:14 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 12, 2006, 05:40:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
There are no download stations in my state south australia
You guys should probably concentrate on getting things like paved roads and running water before you worry about DS download stations
Post by: KDR_11k on April 12, 2006, 07:13:33 AM
Then build your own. It's not that difficult.
