Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 24, 2006, 07:28:44 AM
P.S. I hate Microsoft, so this wasn't easy for me to admit.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2006, 07:59:00 AM
Someone forgot about the Virtual Console, if that was even possible...And I don't see how disc space has anything to do with game demos in the first place...
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2006, 08:16:00 AM
I don't want to play XBox games
I don't know if I care about Xbox live downloadable content.
The only 360 game I'm really interested in so far is Alan Wake
Can I just play my DS for the next 6 months?
Post by: KDR_11k on January 24, 2006, 08:23:20 AM
Why would not having a HDTV make the Core version more desirable? (And what's with all the evil AI jokes embedded into the XC?)
Seriously, I see maybe 1.5 games I'd play on the system (I suppose DoA would be tolerable while Kameolectathon would piss me off after less than 50% through the game)*. Absolutely not worth it. The prices for the games are f###ing insane (68€?!?) and the system is expensive as hell. I'm not going to be an early adopter again, not after being terribly burned with the DS and that had a better launch lineup than the XC.
*=I'd buy Quake 4 once it drops into the bargain bin but since I only buy that for the mod support the XC version would be completely useless for me.
Post by: JonLeung on January 24, 2006, 08:40:33 AM
Learn what EXCLUSIVES are, Microsoft. Geez... I know not everyone has a decent PC, but I do, and because of that, an Xbox seems mostly redundant.
I might be interested in the Tecmo games, like Ninja Gaiden (since I liked the original NES games), or DoA:XBV (but that wouldn't be for "gameplay" reasons, I'll admit that right now). And perhaps a couple other real exclusives, but a handful of games isn't enough for me to consider it.
It sounds like the Xbox 360 library is going to be the same. There are some Rare-developed games like Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo that we all thought were going to be for the GameCube...if they remain true Xbox 360 exclusives, and even if I could say I really wanted to play them, a couple games is still not enough.
However, there is that Xbox 360 controller for the PC...is that any good? I've been using an N64 controller on my computer for YEARS. I don't know if I'd replace it soon, but unlike the original Xbox controller, would you say the X360 controller is worth checking out? (That seems like it means giving an Xbox 360 experience to those who prefer those same games on the PC like I do, which I'm thinking emphasizes the redundancy, IMO...)
Post by: KDR_11k on January 24, 2006, 09:01:42 AM
Post by: Requiem on January 24, 2006, 10:00:23 AM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 24, 2006, 10:48:41 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 24, 2006, 10:28:21 PM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 25, 2006, 08:05:44 PM
Post by: clevelandst124 on January 28, 2006, 01:31:51 AM
Post by: Dasmos on January 28, 2006, 02:15:24 AM
QuoteSo the cables cost almost as much as the system itself?
Originally posted by: Brandogg
The Core system doesn't include HD AV cables...the Premium does. You can buy them seperately (MS branded for $30 or MadCatz for $20...or Monster for like $5 million). With the 360's hard drive you can download game demos, as in a whole bunch of them, the smallest one I've seen is 438MB, that would use up almost the entire Revolution flash memory. Of course the Revolution won't use HD, so videos and games won't require as much space, so maybe we'll be able to download a couple demos, if they allow us. I'm still planning on getting a Revolution, and the games that truly are suited for it...just in the mean time I needed something new and exciting. I'm not trying to sell any Xbox 360s here, and don't expect much support...this is a Nintendo-based BASED, not BIASED) website after all.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 28, 2006, 06:04:37 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 28, 2006, 08:02:43 AM
Post by: Pale on January 28, 2006, 08:17:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
The 360 is more powerful than the most powerful PC you could buy today, or for the next couple of years most likely.
Man.. false. Maybe thats what MS wants you to think but it couldn't be any more wrong. I wish someone could actually benchmark the 360 to prove something to people.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 28, 2006, 10:27:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
The system is pretty expensive, but when you consider what's in the box, it's actually a value...sort of. The 360 is more powerful than the most powerful PC you could buy today, or for the next couple of years most likely. If it had full PC funcionality, then it would be simply incredible.
Hmmm... now thats interesting
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 28, 2006, 10:33:05 AM
Post by: animecyberrat on January 28, 2006, 04:36:34 PM
What I like about 360 is that it looks pretty cool and the extra features live Xbox Live Arcade and theres osme realy great looking games coming out for it that I might enjoy. I am looking forward to Elder Scrolls Oblivion and of Coruse Halo 3, plus that Sonic game and Quake 4 and a few other games. I might get Quake and Doom and Elder Scrolls for my PC if my video card can handle them but otherwise Ill just go for the 360. I hated original xbox but after awhile my sister got one and to be honest it has some great games that I actualy like to play, sure MOST are available on PC but since i am not a big PC gamer and cuz my video card isnt top notch I like to be able to get those games on a console.
But I am still getting a REV on launch day but I have seriously considered a 360. Also I wioudl get premium package cuz we would most likely trad ein our current xbox to help us eat some of the cost.
Post by: TrueNerd on January 28, 2006, 08:27:56 PM
My DS (and Okami!) will more then hold me over til Twilight Princess which will hold me over til the Revolution. Hopefully Nintendo doesn't release TP and the Rev. on the same day, or even a week apart.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 29, 2006, 07:10:17 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 29, 2006, 08:22:26 AM
Games can run on 1600x1200(x80Hz) just fine (that's roughly the same as 1920x1080), I'm not sure how common higher resolution screens are but then again higher resolution HDTVs aren't any more common. Oh and don't forget that the XC can only handle 1080 if it's interlaced.
As for the games that look better on the PC, there's a very high detail version of King Kong available for the PC that outdoes the XC version. I doubt you'll see any significant differences in most games since they're developed for the XC's specs (which are effectively lower since you can offer the option to reduce detail on the PC and can go for much higher specs). PCs do have significantly more RAM, though.
Post by: animecyberrat on January 29, 2006, 09:20:03 AM
I am definately wanting to play Oblivion and I doubt my vid card can handle it so I might get a 360 for that plus I also like GUN for GC and might try 360 version if its any better. And of course theres Kameo looks good anad I will definately want one once Halo 3 get releaased assuing its as good as first 2. Also JUST LIKE Rev I am interested in the Xbox Live arcade DL feature so I can get old games on it that wont be available for REV. BUT dont have enough moneyh right now to buy any new systems so I will wait till first price drop or until rev anyways. I will keep my eye on the 360 and see if any more must have game socmeo ut becaus eI wont miss out on a single game next gen liek Id id this gen, if tehres games to be playe don otehr consoles Ill be damned if I pass them up for stupid fanboyism this next gen, well PS exlcuded because NOTHING will convince me to by a Playstation ANYTHING.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 29, 2006, 07:55:54 PM
Try reading what you write for once.
Post by: bustin98 on January 30, 2006, 05:43:28 AM
But, whats power? Just the CPU alone? You can have a screaming CPU but if there's a bottleneck, the system is only as good as that slowest piece. All the parts combined create the power.
Its rather presumpuous to believe the PC world will not continue to show increases in performance even in the next 6 months. Won't be long before we start seeing carbon nano tubes in processors. And as 64Bit grows, more options will be made available, making it a viable solution for extremely quick computing.
Microsoft made a decent gaming machine. But as a computer, it is lacking and doesn't stand up to the future. Not a knock against MS or the 360, just the way of life.
Post by: Pale on January 30, 2006, 06:15:27 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 30, 2006, 06:59:28 AM
Post by: JonLeung on January 30, 2006, 08:13:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
What other PC controller has the analog stick in the primary position?
Xbox/GameCube controller + USB adaptor...
Personally I've been using an N64 controller on my PC for a long time. If I ever need an analogue stick (the one on my N64 controller is messed up) I could get a GameCube adaptor. I'm looking for one that supports the WaveBird, though, because for whatever reason most don't.
Using console controllers on the PC isn't new. The Xbox 360's controller is probably the first official way, but Microsoft has made several PC game pads so this is really clearing out the redundancy and promoting the Xbox 360 to PC gamers. Like I said, they need to stop having Xbox/Xbox 360 games on the PC. Even if the Xbox 360 is more powerful than any decently-priced PC out there, since I'm not a graphics whore, I don't mind a slightly less detailed game if I get the full game experience.
Post by: vudu on January 30, 2006, 08:26:27 AM
QuoteQuake 4.
Originally posted by: Brandogg
Show me one PC game that looks better than the same game on Xbox 360, and uses video card technology that you can go buy right now. Also remember the games on 360 are running in 1920x1080 resolution. And if anyone can point me to where I can buy a PC with a 3 3.2Ghz core processor right now, then I'll eat my words.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 30, 2006, 07:37:35 PM
Post by: bustin98 on January 31, 2006, 03:56:10 AM
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/quake_4_cpu_performance/
Ok, so I take back what I said about using Intel's Extreme Edition. But I've never been a fan of AMD, with their overheating issues.
So the question is whether or not Quake 4 on the 360 is running in Ultra Quality or High Quality. Maybe there are comparison shots out there.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 31, 2006, 04:53:06 AM
Brandogg: Then you must have something wrong with your system. Doom 3 runs better than that on my system (A64 3000, GF6800, 1GB RAM, often running Photoshop, Blender, Azureus and a whole lot of other crap in the background) and Quake 4 is less demanding than Doom 3 (whether that's optimization or lower spec assets I don't know).
You remember you're not supposed to run that on Ultra Quality, right? That just disables texture compression.
Post by: Renny on January 31, 2006, 10:52:51 AM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 31, 2006, 05:23:51 PM
Post by: bustin98 on February 01, 2006, 09:23:09 AM
Perhaps it can be argued that its not AMD's fault as these people could be keeping their systems in enclosed spaces, or never turning their systems off, or something of that nature.
From what I've recently read, looks like AMD is putting out some quality stuff and I just might consider an AMD over a Pentium next time I upgrade. In the past, the major complaint against AMD was it wasn't as reliable as a Pentium.
The 360 Quake4 vs PC Quake4 issue should die. Its obvious that this is an isolated experience and others on the web are reporting exactly the opposite.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 01, 2006, 09:39:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
P.S. I hate Microsoft, so this wasn't easy for me to admit.
That argument goes right out the window when you proceed to vehemently defend the console for the remainder of the thread as though you had a paycheck on the line for doing so.
Hmm...
And I've played PD0 all the way through: it's just to hold over FPS fans until Halo 3 arrives, nothing more.
-SB
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 01, 2006, 10:04:50 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 01, 2006, 11:10:33 AM
But fair enough: I don't want to rag on you for liking the console, but I think you can expect a relatively high amount of flak for posts like this.
I think the fact that there hasn't been more is a testament to the true nature of Nintendo fans and their "maturity".
-SB
Post by: capamerica on February 13, 2006, 06:21:43 PM
With that all said I do own all the systems. I picked up a Xbox360 Core system on eBay for $297.88 a week after launch. and unlike most people I actually wanted the core system over the Premium system. First off I wanted the wired controllers over the wireless. Reason #1. The Wired ones can also be used on my PC. Reason #2. I don't feel like having another controller I have to replace batteries in and Reason #3 I have no idea what the wireless controllers would do to my other wireless stuff in my room, We heard about what happen in stores with the wireless controllers. Second I didn't need the HD AV cable, I don't have a HDTV and I don't see myself owning one any time soon. I don't need a mini media remote control or the ethernet network cable too. Only think I miss out on with not getting the Premium system was the HardDrive. But that was easy enough to find at Bestbuy which I only had to pay $80 for it.
The Major reason I wanted a Xbox360 was cause I'm a HUGE Dead or Alive fan. It ranks up in my Top 5 favorite series. Actually I'm a big Techmo fan in general. I picked up Perfect Dark Zero a month later cause I was in need of a FPS and I've grown pretty tired of Halo2 I would like to mention that PDZ is nothing special at all and Nintendo fans should not feel bad that Nintendo sold off Rare. As S_B said: it's just to hold over FPS fans until Halo 3 arrives, nothing more. And I've been playing the Final Fantasy XI ?eta since I'm such a Square Fanboy as well and I loved Final Fantasy XI. Those right now are really the only worth wild games out there on the 360 in my book. I rented Kameo... and Damn did that game suck, I think don't know if the game needed to go back into development for another 9 years or if it just sat in the oven way to long. But WOW was it bad.
If it makes you feel any better, any time you buy a Xbox360 system Microsoft loses $120+ =D
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 13, 2006, 06:28:42 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 13, 2006, 08:15:07 PM
So in order to plug an XC controller into the PC you just have to buy a wired one? So far it sounded like the PC version was sold separately...
The Major reason I wanted a Xbox360 was cause I'm a HUGE Dead or Alive fan. It ranks up in my Top 5 favorite series.
What do people see in that game? I mean, it's got neither the pick up and play aspect of Soul Calibur or Naruto GNT nor the depth of Virtua Fighter. The counter system devolves into guessing because usually you'll have to start the counter before you know what your enemy does to reach the counter stance in time (except when you manage to squeeze a counter into an enemy combo) and when you're attacking you're just throwing attacks and hope he doesn't counter. (these rants were a bit funnier when I still had the Ayane avatar...)
Post by: capamerica on February 14, 2006, 03:11:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Reason #1. The Wired ones can also be used on my PC.
So in order to plug an XC controller into the PC you just have to buy a wired one? So far it sounded like the PC version was sold separately...
You could buy a wired Xbox360 controller separately, But I wanted a Xbox360 too, so instead of wasting more money on another wired controller It made sense to me to just pick up the bundle that had the wired controller to start with. So this way when I wanted to play something on my PC with a controller all I had to do was just unplug it from my Xbox360 and plug it right into my PC. I tired to uses a GameCube to USB adaptor but I kept running into the problem of not having enough buttons. And I absolutely hate the PS2 controller. I always saw the Xbox controller as being a GameCube controller with more buttons. I really like the layout both Nintendo and MS use.
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The Major reason I wanted a Xbox360 was cause I'm a HUGE Dead or Alive fan. It ranks up in my Top 5 favorite series.
What do people see in that game? I mean, it's got neither the pick up and play aspect of Soul Calibur or Naruto GNT nor the depth of Virtua Fighter. The counter system devolves into guessing because usually you'll have to start the counter before you know what your enemy does to reach the counter stance in time (except when you manage to squeeze a counter into an enemy combo) and when you're attacking you're just throwing attacks and hope he doesn't counter. (these rants were a bit funnier when I still had the Ayane avatar...)
I <3 Ayane
I never had a problem just picking up and playing DoA... well maybe with DoA4 but not with any of the other 4 games.
I'm really happy with the direction Tecmo is taking the Dead or Alive series. DoA4 really made up for the broken story in the past DoA games infact they pretty much went in with DoA4 and tied up all the stories that started all the way back in DoA1. After watching the end video and getting a big rush out of it I started to wonder if we'll ever see a DoA5 eveything ended so well.
If you go to Wikipedia and do a search for Dead or Alive you'll be surprized with how much story actually goes on in that series.
The only problem I have with DoA4 is that the AI playes like a computer and not like a human. So ya it counters a ton. But I just find this to be a push to get me to think out side the button smashing and to actually use combos and stragety to take down the computer player.
This is pretty much the order of how I like the Fighting games out there:
#1 Super Smash Bros
#2 Dead or Alive
#3 Soul Calibur
#4 King of Fighters (and other SNK Fighting Games)
#5 Tekken
#6 Guilty Gear
#7 Virtua Fighter
#8 Power Stone
#9 Mortal Kombat
#10 Project Justice
#11 Killer Instinct
#12 Bloody Roar (This one use to be much higher up on my list, then I played Bloody Roar 4)
#13-99 Anything I missed
#100 Street Fighter (and other 2D Capcom Fighting Games)
Post by: KDR_11k on February 14, 2006, 04:09:35 AM
Your list has no Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen (Naruto: Clash of the Ninja in the US but the japanese releases go up to version 4 by now, no reason to pick up any of the older ones) so I suppose you haven't played that. On par with or even above SSBM.
I know how much story is in DoA (though I hate how you need external references to understand any of it if you don't own the entire series) but in a fighting game I don't look for the story. The pick up and play appeal seems rather limited to me because the combos are triggered by illogical inputs (pet peeve of mine) so you have to learn which input does what instead of being able to derive it from the sequence you inputted. Too much combo learning means little pick-up-and-play value to me. IMO extremely high PUNP is important for all multiplayer console games since I've yet to play a console game with my friends they have played before I showed it to them and if they can't get going within five minutes they tend to go and play Counterstrike instead while declaring that the game sucks.
Oh and Melty Blood is a game I recommend for high PUNP.
Post by: capamerica on February 14, 2006, 05:02:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Ah, just remembered: The XC controller requires Windows XP, right? I'm interested in one since all PC gamepads mimic that idiotic PS2 controller design but not interested enough to install a new OS for it (price isn't the issue, my uni is under MSDNAA so I can get XP Pro for free). Maybe during the next reformat but I doubt I'll do that before Vista is out...
ya it does require Windows XP or Vista. Which sucks cause I know alot of people who still use Windows 2k and who would like to use the 360 controller on their PC.
I just did a quick search and did find out of a work around to get the 360 Controller working on a Windows 2000 PC. I haven't tried it but its worth a shot.
http://noshbar.livejournal.com/375.html
I've been beta testing Vista, its really a crappy update. Its just Windows XP with a couple new eye-candy features and is more of a resource hog. But sadly it looks like MS is making DirectX 10 Vista only so if your a PC gamer your getting forced into upgrading to Vista for new games.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 14, 2006, 07:13:14 AM
We won't see Vista-only games (except for some of MS's games) within the next five years, no publisher is so stupid as to deliberately limit their market that much. Until 99% of the market have upgraded to Vista it's more profitable to include DX9 and DX10 or just go with SDL completely.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 14, 2006, 07:36:01 AM
My all time favorite fighting games are the 2D games.
Street Fighter 3 Third Strike is one of the most balanced and enjoyable fighting games.
then I would say:
DarkStalkers
Capcom Vs Series
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Super Smash Brothers (but not Melee)
Soul Caliber
Virtua Fighter Series
and tied for last place are:
Tekken series and Mortal Kombat series
To me what makes a good fighting game is: strategy, balance, speed, and great characters.
Most of the 3D fighting games have horrible character designs, that may look pretty but as completely un-interesting. Virtua Fighter is a great example of this, but it is forgiveable because everything else is so good. Tekken has some of the most boring characters ever.
But the worst characters and gameplay belong to the Mortal Kombat series. A series that could even develop different fighting styles for each character. They all had the same punches throws. Sure it has improved over the years, but not enough.
Post by: capamerica on February 14, 2006, 07:37:58 AM
I'm sure we won't have to worry about to many games being Vista only, but it is a fear that I see will happen in the near future. I think the major games that will be effected will be Microsoft games and any Xbox360 ports. I think it will also depend on how much of a ass Microsoft wants to be.
I miss the days when I could buy a PC game and I could play it on anything from Windows 98 to Windows XP.
Post by: JonLeung on February 14, 2006, 07:39:47 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 14, 2006, 10:18:58 AM
As of King of the Fighters, I never did enjoy that series. NEO GEO had a lot of great figthers on it, but I just could never get into that one.
Samarai Shodown was awesome.
Fatal Fury series fantastic.
I guess the combination of some of NEO GEOs less spectular fighting games (Art of Fighting) and a play style more akin to Art of Fighting than say Fatal Fury really hurt the game.
I always wished a Fatal Fury vs. Street Fighter was made. I know there are the great Capcom vs. NEO GEO series out...but I don't think that is the same.
Post by: JonLeung on February 14, 2006, 10:39:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I haven't had a chance to play Guilty Gears yet. I never owned a system with it on it.
What do you use, a Mac? Guilty Gear XX #reload (like so many Xbox games) is on the PC. I'm sure its system requirements aren't very high.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 14, 2006, 11:19:49 AM
I did see that a version of the game is on the Gameboy Advance, but I doubt that would be a very solid port of the game.
I desperately wanted the game to come out on the Gamecube, but alas it never did.
Post by: JonLeung on February 14, 2006, 11:42:28 AM
I'm still surprised that you don't like King Of Fighters, though. To me, it's very much like Street Fighter, but a different character set. More edgier, I guess, without being too overly so. Capcom Vs. SNK 2 EO on the GameCube is an enjoyable game. Being more of a Capcom game than an SNK game, the characters are more on even ground with the Street Fighter characters...well, they seem balanced enough to me, anyway. I'm sure I could be wrong. I got into the KoF series relatively late, but I like the characters more than the seen-too-often-that-they're-almost-boring SF crew. I'll probably get flack for that statement. Though I did buy that Street Fighter art book recently and I'll agree with you there that Street Fighter Alpha 3 is an awesome game.
We're going off topic, though...how did we get into this? Oh, yeah, DoA as one of the top fighting game series on a console with few. The GameCube could use more fighters, too, it'd've been nice if Virtua Fighter 4 came to it...instead of Virtua Quest or whatever, WTF?
Post by: darknight06 on February 14, 2006, 12:40:41 PM
DoA4, we broke it in a matter of a couple days. I guess it would be OK casually, but that's about it.
KOF is an acquired taste, and while I did like the series I can see why some people don't. KOF98 was one of it's best games. KOF really didn't get to be any good until 96 when they completely changed the engine to what was used up until KOF2003 (sucks, stupid Duo Lon)
I don't completely understand Guilty Gear, but I do like the game and I got a feeling with more understanding of how everything works it would be that much better. Balance seems to be quite good with only a few stinkers in the pack. If you do plan to get the DS game, be forewarned, the button inputs for moves and overdrives have been simplified.
I do like CvS2 a little bit but all I gotta say is Sagat, Blanka, and to a lesser extent on the GC and X-Box, Cammy. Bison was also good, as well as Sakura in A-groove. Despite the lack of roll cancelling, I did like the idea of an upgraded P-Groove on the GC and X-Box version where you can do SF3 super cancelling. That groove could've used that to begin with.
"What do you use, a Mac? Guilty Gear XX #reload (like so many Xbox games) is on the PC. I'm sure its system requirements aren't very high."
To be on the safe side, if you get it make sure you have a good video card. The game did use current gen technology for a lot of it's effects and I can already see my computer slowing down from some of it if the DC couldn't handle it all.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 14, 2006, 08:45:48 PM
If you do plan to get the DS game, be forewarned, the button inputs for moves and overdrives have been simplified.
That's good, moves should be at your disposal when you want to use them, you shouldn't lose a match because you didn't properly input the fifteenth direction in a move. That's why I like Melty Blood so much, moves aren't more complicated than quarter circles or Zs (half circle for the 300% super).
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 15, 2006, 05:13:51 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on February 15, 2006, 06:48:17 AM
Oh, this is an Xbox 360 thread? Hehe. If I was rich I'd buy one.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 15, 2006, 07:36:35 AM
I love the MPH demo on the DS because aiming with the stylus is just like mouse aiming.
Post by: JonLeung on February 15, 2006, 07:44:06 AM
JoyToKey (software that lets you map keyboard keys to gamepad buttons) + convertors for console controllers = ability to use console controllers on PC games.
Now you're probably going to tell me that you don't like playing on a small screen. >_<
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 15, 2006, 08:50:52 AM
Post by: JonLeung on February 15, 2006, 09:17:47 AM
The six face buttons are really good for playing arcade-style fighting games, and the controller itself seems more durable than any proper PC controller I've ever used. The many buttons, including the Z-trigger, make it pretty versatile.
Useful as that setup is, I still try to learn real default controls as often as I can, though.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 15, 2006, 09:17:48 AM
You make that sound like your PC screen is smaller than your TV.
Most PC games that would work with joystick control allow you to use a joystick without additional programs. For games like UT2004 you'll have to modify the ini to make it match your axises and stuff but usually it's either a menu option or just "plug in the gamepad and play" (as with most japanese indie games).
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 15, 2006, 08:23:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Your list has no Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen (Naruto: Clash of the Ninja in the US but the japanese releases go up to version 4 by now, no reason to pick up any of the older ones) so I suppose you haven't played that. On par with or even above SSBM.
I know how much story is in DoA (though I hate how you need external references to understand any of it if you don't own the entire series) but in a fighting game I don't look for the story. The pick up and play appeal seems rather limited to me because the combos are triggered by illogical inputs (pet peeve of mine) so you have to learn which input does what instead of being able to derive it from the sequence you inputted. Too much combo learning means little pick-up-and-play value to me. IMO extremely high PUNP is important for all multiplayer console games since I've yet to play a console game with my friends they have played before I showed it to them and if they can't get going within five minutes they tend to go and play Counterstrike instead while declaring that the game sucks.
Oh and Melty Blood is a game I recommend for high PUNP.
I played naruto GNT 3, although i was expecting something of the likes of DBZ: Boutaki (spelling?) i was surprised that it had more depth, i know people at willvolution are crazy for it, but honestly its very broken, glitchy, and some of the string/combos are vastly overpowered, mainly haku, and i don't enjoy zazuba's ability to cancel into any string by connecting a jumping A, that and naruto doing like 80% or over (depending on the character) with 1 combo into regansan (spelling) is just out of hand
But i completely agree with DoA, garbage, the counter system is terrible, INVINCIBILITY ON THE GET UP IN A 3D FIGHTER! madness, if soul calibur adopted that poeple would roit, and although some argue that the enviromental dmg is more fair then a ring out (because obviously the match isn't instantly ended) i find it to be equal just on the count that in DoA 3 anytime you got smacked into ANYTHING 50% out the window and in some situations you could be comboed from it, why bother, just leave it at Ring out, oh yeah i forgot, DoA is so pretty and has digital breasts, 10!!! MASTERPIECE, GREATEST GAME EVER!....
Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
This is pretty much the order of how I like the Fighting games out there:
#1 Super Smash Bros
#2 Dead or Alive
#3 Soul Calibur
#4 King of Fighters (and other SNK Fighting Games)
#5 Tekken
#6 Guilty Gear
#7 Virtua Fighter
#8 Power Stone
#9 Mortal Kombat
#10 Project Justice
#11 Killer Instinct
#12 Bloody Roar (This one use to be much higher up on my list, then I played Bloody Roar 4)
#13-99 Anything I missed
#100 Street Fighter (and other 2D Capcom Fighting Games)
What you should have written
1- Street Fighter 3: third strike & Super smash brothers melee(The 2 arguablly greatest, most diffucult at top tier play games to master, although if
i had to give it to one, it'd be SF3 cause of the parry, here's hoping SB revolution will
have a parrying type mechanic)
2- Garou: Mark of the wolves
3- the alpha's and SF II
4- Smash brothers (would've been higher if L-canceling wasn't so broken (it was a glitch though)
5- Virtua fighter 2
6- Soul calibur 2 / 3 (i can't choose which is better, Ivy was some sort of monster in 2, they toned every one down in 3 but the glitches...)
7- Last Blade 2 (so unblanaced but i like it)
8- 1000000- everything else (Cap vs snk, VF 4, Tekken a couple of others are at the higher end)
1000001- Mortal kombat PEOPLE this is not a fighting game, and it NEVER will be, ever, no arguements please
1000002 DoA I think it's worse then mk, because i find 3d isn't as polished as 2d, that and mk was "WOW, BLOOD SO
COOL", which is better then "THE GFX THE GFX, LOOK NIPPLE, 10!!! X-BOX = GODMODE"
Post by: KDR_11k on February 15, 2006, 11:54:52 PM
SSBM makes you invincible while standing up (and a short while after that). Personally I see no reason to make the player vulnerable while standing up, just puts the player who fell at too big of a disadvantage. Some games (like OMF or EFZ) even implement hard limits on juggling. Some things just have to be toned down, especially when they allow too much cheese.
i find it to be equal just on the count that in DoA 3 anytime you got smacked into ANYTHING 50% out the window and in some situations you could be comboed from it, why bother, just leave it at Ring out
Even if it's highly damaging it allows a comeback. Comboing from env damage isn't automatic. Plus there are games where an unfortunate input could send you ring-out, that's plain annoying.
Post by: capamerica on February 16, 2006, 04:47:42 AM
I love the fact in DoA that you can kick people out windows and down staris, It really adds to the game. I do admit that I find that it takes off to much life when these things happen, But most of the time its pretty hard to do this.
It really sounds like the only reason you hate this game is cause you keep getting your ass handed to you in it.
I absolutly hate all Street Fighter games. They are in my opinion the worst fighting games on the market. And all the Capcom Street Fighter clones also piss the hell out of me. I can deal with the VS. games cause their not as bad but they still suck a lot.
Oh and KDR to answer your question a while ago, I have played a bit of Naruto, but not enought to pass jugment on it and rank it. It was fun what little I played of it.
oh and I'm changeing my list a bit.
#1 Super Smash Bros
#2 Dead or Alive
#3 Soul Calibur
#4 King of Fighters (and other SNK Fighting Games)
#5 Tekken
#6 Guilty Gear
#7 Virtua Fighter
#8 Power Stone
#9 Mortal Kombat
#10 Project Justice
#11 Killer Instinct
#12 Bloody Roar (This one use to be much higher up on my list, then I played Bloody Roar 4)
#13-98 Anything I missed
#99 Dragon Ball Z Fighting games
#100 2D Capcom Fighting Games (Not including Street Fighter)
#? Street Fighter
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2006, 05:07:35 AM
Can we at least agree that is Street Fighter is 101, then Mortal Kombat is 102? That series is horrible.
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 05:09:16 AM
For different reasons, though.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 16, 2006, 05:14:15 AM
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 05:26:05 AM
The next Mortal Kombat game is supposed to have every Kombatant ever. That, to me, is exciting. I wonder if they'll have the N64 Trilogy exclusive Khameleon, both human and cyborg Smoke, both human and reptile Reptile, zombie/ghost/human Liu Kangs, and the one-shot characters or characters from the sucky spin-offs?
And back to Street Fighter...there really should be one with all the Street Fighter characters. Street Fighter Alpha 3 had an awesome selection, but it didn't have some original Street Fighter characters or the new ones from III. Heck, how about something like Capcom Fighting All-Stars, or whatever that game was called, but with a better selection, like at least all of the Capcom guys from Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, as well as every Street Fighter and Darkstalker? And all-new Capcom characters, too? Now that'd be a crazy game.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2006, 05:56:19 AM
Mortal Kombat 1, 2 and 3 were horrible.
All characters had the same basic moves. Upper Cut, same jumping air kick, same sweep, almost all the basic moves were exactly the same or shared with 3 different characters.
The only reason you changed characters was to get the different special moves, and several of the special moves just felt exactly the same. Perhaps this is because the other basic moves made combos boring.
Say what you will, about Street Fighter, but at least the characters moves felt different. Yeah everyone had a Dragon punch type attack and fireball. But the basic moves were drastically different and made you actually KNOW the different characters you were fighting against to beat experienced players.
Mortal Kombat all you really needed to know was your character and their combos.
Finally, Block Buttons are horrible ideas for 2D games.
Post by: capamerica on February 16, 2006, 06:03:16 AM
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 06:10:38 AM
Mortal Kombat has the Fatalities and over-the-top gore and violence, sure. It's one of the only game series where I really like that, but it probably stems from nostalgia of all those days trying to perform them all.
But Mortal Kombat also has more interesting characters, stories, worlds, and atmosphere. I like Street Fighter, sure, but it's all about international fighters looking for good fights and/or defeating M. Bison. (There's a bit more to some of them, but few are truly complex stories.) I liked how Alpha 2 had different final bosses, sure, but most SF games aren't like that. The MK stories are more complex than you would expect...I remember a bunch of gory games that came out that were gory just for the sake of it and their stories sucked, if they existed at all.
When Mortal Kombat isn't doing the cookie-cutter palette-swap ninja template thing, the characters are more interesting. Different species in some cases. And from all over. Sure, SF has different countries, but Mortal Kombat has different worlds. Earthrealm and Outworld, mostly, but also Edenia, the Netherrealm, and MK: Deception also introduced Chaosrealm and Orderrealm. There's more of a fantasy vibe. Street Fighter doesn't have that.
As a button-masher and a pro of none of these games, a jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none, you could say, maybe I'm not qualified to point out the mechanics of games in particular, but I will say that I do like the atmosphere in Mortal Kombat.
Post by: couchmonkey on February 16, 2006, 06:37:29 AM
Incidentally, I've played a metric ton of Super Street Fighter II, and it seemed like I could never pull off any decent combos.
Edit: Why not be a follower? My rankings (based on the games I've actually played):
1. Super Smash Bros. Melee
2. Super Street Fighter II
3. Capcom vs. SNK EO
4. Street Fighter Alpha 2
5. King of Fighters: Neo Blood
6. Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
7. Other SF IIs (everyone loves Turbo, I just loved the extra characters added in Super).
8. Super Smash Bros.
9. Killer Instinct Series
10. DOA 3
There are a bunch of others that were probably worse than DOA (War Gods and BIO Freaks come to mind), in fact I rather like DOA, but I haven't played any other fighters enough to honestly rank them here.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2006, 06:43:27 AM
Mortal Kombat's story and characters became very standard and boring as the series progressed, it became less fresh and the story became more ridiculous. Where Street Fighter is different. I began to really like the characters as the animes and mangas came out linking the stories more and the characters. I liked how as the series developed Ryu became a superstar (though he didn't want it) and began to have fans follow him (Sakura) It made if feel realistic. Ken even though he was never the master that Ryu was began training apprentices before Ryu, which really shows his inferiority complex with Ryu.
Post by: couchmonkey on February 16, 2006, 06:52:29 AM
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 06:55:07 AM
And regarding the SF stories...I feel that some characters are too unused. Sure, every fighting game has the guy that's just in there, but too many of SF's classic characters seem to sit around. Half of the SF II crew, even. Dhalsim's never interacting with anyone in his endings. Zangief is also a loner (other than R. Mika in Alpha 3). There's not much to Blanka despite the more radical story about him being raised in the jungle, and E. Honda is plain boring. They can be formidable in fights, but often I feel they're just there for the ethnic diversity and not much else.
Don't get me wrong, I love Street Fighter, but story is not its strong suit. I also love The King Of Fighters, even though I don't understand most of what's going on there. I've been downloading The King Of Fighters: Another Day, which is a series of really short anime episodes that show what the characters do in one particular day where there's a fire in town. Each episode features a handful of characters, but it's all the same day. Neat. Confusing, but interesting.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2006, 07:26:09 AM
I haven't played the most recent Mortal Kombat, and I actually want to. I have heard that the series has really turned around for the better. Which I hope is true, because it is a classic game franchise and I want to see it continue to succeed and become better.
About Street Fighter's story. You do realize that there are only like 3 games and therefore 3 stories. Alpha, Street Fighter 2, and Street Fighter 3. And since Alpha is a prequel to 2 that the stories are going to be fimilar.
Street Fighter 3 seems to have a very different story.
But I guess where Mortal Kombat is about an ongoing story. Street Fighter is actually more about motives. Why is Ryu trying to become the best. Why does Ken believe he is inferior and what does he really have to prove? Can Cammy overcome her brainwashing? How will Chun Li's and Guile's motives partner up?
There are tons of under used characters, but they will eventually be dealt with.
I hope a new 2D Street Fighter 4 really pushes the story more, and also brings back all the characters we miss with Street Fighter 3.
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 07:34:58 AM
I could be wrong, but I thought I heard that after Capcom Fighting All-Stars, that Capcom wouldn't make 2D fighting games anymore (other than rereleases), and that Street Fighter IV might actually be in 3D, but better than the weird EX series, however it wouldn't come out until at least after the 20th anniversary of Street Fighter. Which I guess might not be that long from now, but it's been a while since III was new. I would like to see more returning characters, and more intertwining stories.
If stories are going to be thrown out the window, I'd like to see a Marvel Vs. Capcom Vs. SNK. I don't care who has the rights to whatever. Make it happen!
I remember when I was really into MUGEN...that fighting game engine for the PC where you could make your own fighters, but most people just ripped characters from other games. I threw them all together, I had 108 characters from different fighting games (and also some games that weren't fighting games). Good times.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2006, 07:40:29 AM
Yeah, I haven't read anything on that, but if Capcom does that I think they will piss alot of people off. Several fans have been thankful that Capcom has honored the series and kept it 2D. But if Street Fighter goes 3D then Street Fighter 3 will one of the last great 2D fighter games, and will mark the eventual end of 2D fighers.
Though, it makes since that Capcom is taking their time and waiting to develop a GREAT 3D engine and game design for Street Fighter if it comes out in 3D. They also better find away to keep that anime look and feel of the series or it will disappear within the mass of all the other 3D fighters.
I hope this doesn't happen. 2D is already almost dead, Capcom don't betray it as well.
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 07:43:08 AM
All this talk about fighting games is making me want to play something right now.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 16, 2006, 07:56:18 AM
Naruto, as Ty said, is easily the best fighting game on the Cube. Easy to pick up and no complex inputs necessary, what you need is tactics. While the same can be said about SSBM, that's a lot more confusing (especially with four players).
And am I the only one who wants to see a proper tournament mode as seen in One Must Fall 2097 again? That'd add quite some variety to Singleplayer...
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 08:01:08 AM
Too bad the 3D sequel, Battlegrounds, is among the ultimate in suckiness. I heard they rushed it, which is evident in like five billion spelling errors, among other things. And I wish they kept more of the 2097 characters.
I keep forgetting about the underdog games among the likes of Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat/Tekken/Soul Calibur/Dead Or Alive/etc.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 16, 2006, 08:15:45 AM
Post by: blackfootsteps on February 16, 2006, 11:53:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
I think you could easily rank MK2 over all the Street Fighters UP UNTIL Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, even though personally I'd rank MK2 over any SF game, but I don't see anyone agreeing with me there so I won't try convincing anyone how great it was.
I'll agree with everything you said! I was always horrible at SF
MKII is, i reckon, the best MK game by far.
And for Spak, try playing with Mileena / Kitana then with another character, sweeps and general moves are faster, especially noticeably with the sweep -> throw combo. I'll agree the characters aren't as varied as SF but there's enough there to work with.
EDIT: To be on-topic... my local shopping centre got an XBOX 360 display / tester unit yesterday. Woot!
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 16, 2006, 12:09:34 PM
I remember watching people play Mortal Kombat 2, and I thought to myself this game looks amazing. (Seeing some of the really cool combos of Katana and Mileena, Scorpion and Reptile.) Then I played the game, and I thought it controlled horrible, I thought the entire experience was too stiff.
A fighting game is more than the overall gameplay I agree, and Street Fighter has failed in that regards, but the gameplay was always very solid. More balanced than most. Super Street Fighter 2 is one of the best fighters out there. Then Street Fighter Alpha 2 was nice with its Custom Combo Supers, that really required you to know how best to link moves together. Finally Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike went back to the basics of Street Fighter and really just tried to make a very polished very elegant fighting game.
And I would never use those words to describe Mortal Kombat. But, I will say this at least Midway released the Mortal Kombat games on the Cube, and Capcom has refused to put those games on Nintendo's Cube. It really saddens me. I wish Capcom would at least put it on the DS, so that we can play on the go.
Post by: JonLeung on February 16, 2006, 12:14:44 PM
Maybe shout "Hadoken!" into the microphone if you're unable to do a basic quarter-circle + punch? (I guess that wouldn't work for "Tatsumakisenpuukyaku!", which I always swear sounds like "Effective Budoken!" instead. I don't even know how it's supposed to be Tatsu-etc.)
Post by: blackfootsteps on February 16, 2006, 12:18:34 PM
I would love a DS SF game, it would be a good way to re-introduce myself to the series and the 2-D fighting genre as a whole. MKII and SSM:B (does that count?) are the only 2D fighters I've played in years, with Naruto GNT 4 my mainstay in 3D fighters.
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 16, 2006, 01:56:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
King of Fighters also makes you invincible while standing up, Infact I really can't think of any fighting games that don't make you invincible while getting up. I mean really where is the fun in getting the person on the ground and just continueing to beat the crap out of them. Its not fun. It one of my pet-peves with Soul Calibur.
I love the fact in DoA that you can kick people out windows and down staris, It really adds to the game. I do admit that I find that it takes off to much life when these things happen, But most of the time its pretty hard to do this.
It really sounds like the only reason you hate this game is cause you keep getting your ass handed to you in it.
I absolutly hate all Street Fighter games. They are in my opinion the worst fighting games on the market. And all the Capcom Street Fighter clones also piss the hell out of me. I can deal with the VS. games cause their not as bad but they still suck a lot.
Oh and KDR to answer your question a while ago, I have played a bit of Naruto, but not enought to pass jugment on it and rank it. It was fun what little I played of it.
oh and I'm changeing my list a bit.
#1 Super Smash Bros
#2 Dead or Alive
#3 Soul Calibur
#4 King of Fighters (and other SNK Fighting Games)
#5 Tekken
#6 Guilty Gear
#7 Virtua Fighter
#8 Power Stone
#9 Mortal Kombat
#10 Project Justice
#11 Killer Instinct
#12 Bloody Roar (This one use to be much higher up on my list, then I played Bloody Roar 4)
#13-98 Anything I missed
#99 Dragon Ball Z Fighting games
#100 2D Capcom Fighting Games (Not including Street Fighter)
#? Street Fighter
2 things
1) Street fighter was the first 2d fighting gmae so all others (bar smash brothers) is a clone, so you should hate your SNK fighters as well
2) I was unclear in my logic, DoA is a 3D fighter, this is improtant to note as in every 2D fighter you are invincble on the get up from anyhwere from 1 to 3 frames (yes smash brothers is a 2D fighter so it pertains to it as well) This is a gold standard for 2D fight set by... Capcom... wow "No rly?" yes capcom set it no one changed it
BUT for 3D it is NOT customary to have invinciblity on the get up, as GET UP mind games are part of the game and so are okizina (Spelling) which is hitting grounded opponents, that is why in 3D fighters you can ukemi (spelling) or just ukemi (sp?) roll, attack, side evade all while grounded
i 2D fighter you options are more limited when grounded to just a basic roll, That is why you have invincibility on the get up for 2D and not 3D, now back to Doa sucking because it terminates a great aspect of 3D fighting games
By the way i did get my ass handed to me in my first match of DoA 3, but after i got the "mechanics" down i faired well against the owner who had played it for 2 yrs, the learning curve was small, a mere 2 hours
if you think Street fighter 3 or any SF for that matter is garbage by all means go search the web for evolution tornaments
anyway, i'm acctually an SNK fan boy, with all being said, that why i listed mark of the wolves as my number 3, the reason i COULDN'T place it any higher was because it ripped off SF3 with a whole new cast (but they kept terry) and just defend
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 16, 2006, 03:35:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Speed variations isn't variation its laziness. The truth is, capturin live-action people for Mortal Kombat was expensive, so they milked the process so that they could make many characters for a cheaper cost. I completely understand the decision, but it made the game less than spectacular.
I remember watching people play Mortal Kombat 2, and I thought to myself this game looks amazing. (Seeing some of the really cool combos of Katana and Mileena, Scorpion and Reptile.) Then I played the game, and I thought it controlled horrible, I thought the entire experience was too stiff.
A fighting game is more than the overall gameplay I agree, and Street Fighter has failed in that regards, but the gameplay was always very solid. More balanced than most. Super Street Fighter 2 is one of the best fighters out there. Then Street Fighter Alpha 2 was nice with its Custom Combo Supers, that really required you to know how best to link moves together. Finally Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike went back to the basics of Street Fighter and really just tried to make a very polished very elegant fighting game.
And I would never use those words to describe Mortal Kombat. But, I will say this at least Midway released the Mortal Kombat games on the Cube, and Capcom has refused to put those games on Nintendo's Cube. It really saddens me. I wish Capcom would at least put it on the DS, so that we can play on the go.
I agree with what you say about MK and SF3, personally i think SF will never go 3D, 2D is just more polished
I also equate MK to the Grand theft auto series of today, built for gore and violence and extremeness more then actual gameplay. I get bored of GTA very quickly, i don't think the missions are that diverse, most of the time i'm driving into a blue circle, or driving against a timer into a blue circle, i much rather play pikmin 2 then most games released on any other console, but unfortunatly most fighters are not on GC, at least nintendo made one of the newest most innovative, and extremly well detailed fighters in smash brothers, it bothers me when poeple don;t respect it and treat it as a party game
Post by: darknight06 on February 16, 2006, 04:53:19 PM
Super Street Fighter 2 TURBO was the best of the original series. Had the best balance and actually felt completed unlike SSF2. SF3TS was the best one afterward.
None of the Street Fighter Alphas were any good IMO, especially 2 and 3 with their Custom Combo BS. Yeah, Alpha 1 had chain combos along with Guy and Dan, but they're nowhere near as bad as Chun-Li and Rose in A2 were. Chun-Li I remember the most with her BS 60%+ CC just spamming on fierce kick. And Alpha 3 just felt like it was all over the place, with V-Ism Shotos along with Zangief and Dhalsim ruling the root.
As for Capcom putting any 2D fighter on the DS, forget it. The only reason PSP got Darkstalkers and SFA3 Max is only because they wouldn't have to do anything huge to get them over, all the main assets were already done, and the ports themselves would be cheap to do. Same goes for GBA and Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo Revival. Now they did have to draw the new moves in, but other than that it was a simple cut and paste job. On DS they'd have to redraw everything like they had to back during SNES days and I doubt anyone over there these days would be worth crap doing sprite art. They'd also have to resequence the music. That's too much work, I mean with SFA3 Max on PSP, if they didn't bother to retouch the CvS2 and CFE sprites there, what makes you think they'd do any good of a job doing faithful looking sprite art on the DS?
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on February 16, 2006, 04:54:32 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 16, 2006, 07:56:38 PM
2. Not everybody likes all that hitting downed characters. Never mind that 2d games allow air recovery ("ukemi") these days.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on February 16, 2006, 09:17:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
Show me one PC game that looks better than the same game on Xbox 360, and uses video card technology that you can go buy right now.
I can show you two!
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 17, 2006, 04:38:29 AM
That has always been something that frustrated me with Capcom fighters is that 6 button system is sometimes hard to hit all the buttons and perform combos. It takes away from the experience some.
Mark of the Wolves is very good. Fatal Fury has always been my second favorite fighting games series, but SNK always went overboard on way too complicated special move commands.
A game the sucked, but had an intersting controls was Primal Rage. I liked how you pressed the buttons down, then inputted the command. It meant you had to think about your moves more carefully, and you could perform the action without accidentally jumping, moving backwards, and so on. Obviously the fighter was limited because of the character direction, but I always felt that game TRIED to innovate, just failed at it.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 17, 2006, 05:54:08 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 17, 2006, 06:27:15 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 17, 2006, 07:56:57 AM
I really don't care what graphic a character uses for representing a strong attack or a jab, all I care is that I can make a quick or a powerful attack when I need it. MB and EFZ don't overload any special move inputs either (means quarter circle forward is always the same move no matter what attack button you use), except for minor variations (e.g. Kohaku throws different plants with her down-down-attack or Warakia mimics different characters with his QCF). Normal specials can be turned into more powerful attacks when your special gauge is full enough and you use strong to finish the input and in EFZ you can choose to use one, two or three bars for your super move but the attack is always executed, no matter which attack button you use. Makes adjusting to a new character much easier since you only have to remember the directions, not the attack button.
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 17, 2006, 08:03:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Whoever said 6 buttons is too much for a fighting game I have to agree. I think 4 two punch and 2 kick is more than enough for a 2D fighter. IF a third attack is needed hitting both punch or both kick is easy enough.
That has always been something that frustrated me with Capcom fighters is that 6 button system is sometimes hard to hit all the buttons and perform combos. It takes away from the experience some.
Mark of the Wolves is very good. Fatal Fury has always been my second favorite fighting games series, but SNK always went overboard on way too complicated special move commands.
A game the sucked, but had an intersting controls was Primal Rage. I liked how you pressed the buttons down, then inputted the command. It meant you had to think about your moves more carefully, and you could perform the action without accidentally jumping, moving backwards, and so on. Obviously the fighter was limited because of the character direction, but I always felt that game TRIED to innovate, just failed at it.
i used to think the 6 botton set up sucked, however i found it gives many more options over 4, not only with the intial six but more command moves and variants to specials and supers
Primal rage was bad, the specail move inputs were intresting, but extremly hard to combo from effectivily
I acctually perfer the SNK style special moves to the Street fighter ones, Thats why i mainly use Alex in street fighter 3, SNK grapplers never had to use the annoying 360 motion for command grabs, i perfer the half circle as it's buffering is less restrictive, of course you sacrafic priority, i think SNK are the only ones who can do counter moves right as they were the first to use them
if you look at remmy in SF3 his counter super has a FLASH, thats a dead give away, opposed to freemen in Mark of the Wolves, where the flash is only activated after the hit connects (not to mention all hits a garuenteed, if you catch a jumper with Remmy only some will hit) not to mention remmy looks like the unwanted child of guile and snk
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I think three attack buttons are sufficient, no need for separating punches and kicks.
you should try The last Blade 2, as it has 4 buttons, but one is for parrying, so it's really only 3
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 17, 2006, 08:12:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Amodaus: 1. You can like a mechanic while hating a specific implementation. I, for example, think 6 buttons for SF are too much. There's a reason why pretty much all indie games use three attack buttons (weak, medium, strong).
2. Not everybody likes all that hitting downed characters. Never mind that 2d games allow air recovery ("ukemi") these days.
in most 2d games i played generally air ukemi just leave you open for juggles, i barely use them, unless its guitly gear, in which some supers can nail you while grounded (the gaint whale....)
Post by: KDR_11k on February 17, 2006, 10:13:16 AM
Can't say too much about SNK and SF, the newest version of SF I've played was the Anniversary Edition. I can't get used to the command logic in SF2, it just feels completely strange. And while I've had little trouble with the game back when I was a kid I can't even beat the first AI opponent on Easiest now. Don't know what went wrong there (probably because I'm used to the J-indie way of things, e.g. I try to do many quick jabs when the enemy is close and go into stronger attacks once the enemy is pushed a bit away but jabs in SF2 are too slow for that)... SNK I have no experience with outside of KOF 00/01. The sheer number of fighters involved make it hard to get into that game. Manuals suck in either case, no real explaination of the characters.
And why don't these games come with advanced game tutorials? I.e. tutorials that don't just tell you "press left to go left" but also give you some basic combos and strategies for the characters. Character tutorials in general would be nice, some characters require approaches that take forever to figure out and when you're playing against someone you're expected to know all of that. Figuring things out is half the fun in singleplayer games but in competitive games you're expected to know everything if you want to have any chance at all. What the manual doesn't provide GameFAQs does. So why not tell the player right away what's expected from him?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 18, 2006, 07:55:41 PM
Post by: jasonditz on February 19, 2006, 06:43:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
Strange that they have Street Fighter rereleases on the GBA and DarkStalkers on the PSP but neither on the DS. Maybe they felt like if they made a DS game, that they'd HAVE to use some of its features.
Maybe shout "Hadoken!" into the microphone if you're unable to do a basic quarter-circle + punch? (I guess that wouldn't work for "Tatsumakisenpuukyaku!", which I always swear sounds like "Effective Budoken!" instead. I don't even know how it's supposed to be Tatsu-etc.)
be patient... I'd love to see Xmen versus Streetfighter or something ported to the DS.
I like the idea of shouting out moves... even if you can't pronounce Tatsumakisenpuukyaku, you should be able to make it sound sufficiently different from the other spoken moves of Ken and Ryu (just hearing "tat" and a bunch of jibberish afterwards could be sufficient).
I'm more worried about the difference between Shoryuken and Shinku Hadoken, since both start with the same sound.
Or worse still... characters like Sagat or Dhalsim, who've got multiple moves with the same word in them (actually didn't Sagat's Tiger Shot and Tiger Knee both just use the shout "Tiger!" before them?)
Post by: darknight06 on February 19, 2006, 04:02:48 PM
For them to do a DS version would probably mean an entirely reworked sprite set as well as reworked backgrounds like you would see it on the SNES/Genesis back then. Now granted they can get it a lot closer on the DS than they could the SNES/Genesis and it would probably be a better port than ANYTHING they did on the PS1. Capcom wouldn't do it though, and the big reason being that they probably don't have many sprite artists around anymore. That and let's be honest, if the PSP SFA3 Max is any indication of how they would handle the sprites, I wouldn't want any part of it. The main characters that were in the game to begin with look good, but Maki, Eagle, Yun, and Ingrid look horrible in comparison. They didn't bother to touch up those sprites at all and you can tell they weren't in the game originally.
