Post by: ThePerm on December 12, 2005, 06:13:05 AM
Revolution from the sounds of every damned developer will have tons of games as well.....dance games, fighting games, shooting games, cooking games, action games, survival horror games, party games, online games, point and click games.
Not only that but it will have hte library of gamecube, n64, snes, and nes. Making it the largest library, and now finally eclipsing ps2's library
Post by: Ian Sane on December 12, 2005, 06:59:59 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 12, 2005, 07:01:35 AM
Just to be able to have one system play anything Nintendo is HUGE. And, if the price tag is low enough then that alone will be worth purchasing the new system. Remember Retro gaming is very big right now...perhaps its because the direction gaming is going these future generations are boring and not fun.
Now, those other games you list, it really depends on what gets made and how good those games are. I would love a cooking game that actually teaches you real cooking skills, or a dance game that combines a dance pad with arm movements. Or crazy party games with the Revolution. But it really all depends how well those games are made to depend on if they effect this next generation.
Post by: couchmonkey on December 12, 2005, 07:02:35 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 12, 2005, 07:05:11 AM
Its a big deal Ian. Most people do not have a working NES anymore...not to mention their games probably don't work if they do, also less people have working Super Nintendos then you think. That takes care of retro gamers. The Nintendo 64 is just a sweet bonus, and if you skipped out on Nintendo that generation, then you have several great games to catch up on.
I understand your point you DON'T HAVE to have the revolution to play those games, but in all reality, a majority probably does because they don't have their old systems.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 12, 2005, 07:12:45 AM
It is going to cost publishers next to nothing to release the old stuff on the Revolution, and if their classic game sells, then publishers could see that as a demand for the game and release a port or exclusive on the system.
Also, marketshare dictates as well what is made for a system, and if the download service helps to bring a retro audience back toward Nintendo's camp, then more 3rd party games will be released.
Too many people believe that this download service is a measily sparkling innovation with no real value, but I see its potential for being something huge and groundbreaking for Nintendo.
Post by: JonLeung on December 12, 2005, 07:15:50 AM
I love all this stuff, and I probably won't part with it, but for practicality, I'd like to be able to move all that Nintendo stuff into the basement and get rid of the coffee table altogether. The slim Revolution can easily find a space next to the DVD player and VCRs and amplifier, and all this wirelessness will clean up the space multi-fold. I will suddenly have a comfortably open room but still have all the games (and more) that I can play.
Mega thumbs up from me on the service, and that's just for optimizing the room, before we actually get to the games! If I was any good at describing the room I play games in you would understand how much of a difference it would make.
And for those who didn't have all the consoles or many games for each, they will certainly love it more than I already know I will - a chance to play what they might've missed out on.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 12, 2005, 07:21:57 AM
Some people will buy a Rev just for the download service but if Nintendo relies on that to fill in the release schedule they're screwed. New content is what drives a console and a lack of it can sink it.
I'm not buying a Rev if I'm expected to download old games to get decent usage out of it. So don't anyone ever use that excuse with me if a year from now I'm complaining there aren't enough Rev games out. The download service is a cool extra feature but that's all Nintendo should see it as. This is a new console, not a retro machine, and thus new games are what's important.
Post by: ThePerm on December 12, 2005, 07:37:23 AM
i also think with them making bank on microtransactions the publishers might be willing to have some games made.
Post by: giantgreengoat on December 12, 2005, 07:54:07 AM
With the new download service we get to see Bionic Commando again and all those groovy Shadowgates (which better have a Rev. update, the controler would be perfect) and developers and publishers can throw Meteos style projects and small <12MB games, Mario64 was 8MB, into the mix.
Imagine a hub with a list of all the older consoles and then a menu item for current "niche" titles, like the mini games from Smashbrothers/Mario Party/Wario Ware/etc in tandem with the newest offering from Ion Storm Inc, joking. This whole download service has a metric butt-load of potential.
Nolan Bushnell just finished praising the Rev. controller, maybe there will be a downloadable version of his new "Ping" game to play when the honies come over.
On a side note, what is keeping from Nintendo from openning up their entire Gameboy library up to the Revolution download service? I'm wondering if it could be the next installment of the GBA (or whatever they plan on calling it). This could be a testing ground for their next big thing, the Gameboy Virtual Handheld. It would be nice to see everyone all on one box, i.e. playing Capcom's Zelda games on my Rev. and rolling back time for Mario Land on the same box.
Post by: giantgreengoat on December 12, 2005, 07:55:24 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 12, 2005, 07:57:20 AM
I can see them adding new games over time as other developers decide to get involved. But I wonder if games that are ready could be deliberately held back. Some games have enough clout that they could release them at specific later dates to maintain interest in the system.
Like, for example, the Master Quest version of The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time.
It was "free" anyway, ported to the GameCube in the Zelda Collectors Disc, which made me resubscribe to Nintendo Power after a hiatus. You could debate that I felt I was paying for the disc instead of the subscription, though...
Those who have the disc could simply play it like any other Gamecube disc. But for those who don't have the Zelda's Collector's Disc, the game is retro, and yet new to most (even if it is still pretty similar to the original). It would be emulated like any other N64 download.
Post by: eljefe on December 12, 2005, 08:23:14 AM
QuoteNo one HAS to buy a PS2 to play PS1 games. Nor, do they have to buy a PS3 to PS2/PS1 games. So those don't count as part of the PS3 catalog. Plus, most people still have their PS1's and 2's so they don't need a new system to play old games!
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I wouldn't count the Cube, N64, SNES or NES games as part of the library. No one HAS to buy a Rev to play those games. And if you count them then the PS3 can play every PS2 and PS1 game so that kind of balances out anyway.
Yeah, right. ..
Post by: Zach on December 12, 2005, 08:23:27 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 12, 2005, 08:37:02 AM
If it is true, or at least partially true, like the Xbox 360's slightly shoddy backwards compatibility; limited to certain games and requiring the optional hard drive and stuff...then Nintendo will definitely have the best library. Well, I already think it does...
Post by: trip1eX on December 12, 2005, 08:45:15 AM
Also I still think NIntendo will work the new controller into the old games as an option. Duck Hunt with the controller anyone? Side scrolling shoot 'em ups controlled by moving the whole remote up or down? Flicking the controller up to jump in Mario. Old racing games controlled by tilting the controller instead of the dpad. Stuff like that would breathe alot of new life into old titles imo. Even if you own them already you'd want to download them on the Rev to play them a new way.
I really of think NIntendo could design some middleware so one could personally tweak the new controller to work with old games however they want to. Options for mapping functions of the new controller to old controls and tweaking the sensitivity etc.
Post by: ThePerm on December 12, 2005, 09:51:26 AM
Post by: heinous_anus on December 12, 2005, 10:51:07 AM
On the subject of publishers/developers, the only library I'd really like to see opened up is Squaresoft's, from the SNES days. I never actually "owned" Mario RPG or Chrono Trigger.
Post by: eljefe on December 12, 2005, 11:36:11 AM
QuoteVery true. Depending on the game, anything above ten dollars/ euros would be excessive.
Originally posted by: trip1eX
The virtual console appeal will depend greatly on price at least for me. If games are $5 or less then it's sweet.
QuoteThat idea for enhanced controls is good. There should be an option to play with the old-fashioned controls as well.
Originally posted by: trip1eX
Also I still think NIntendo will work the new controller into the old games as an option. Duck Hunt with the controller anyone? Side scrolling shoot 'em ups controlled by moving the whole remote up or down? Flicking the controller up to jump in Mario. Old racing games controlled by tilting the controller instead of the dpad. Stuff like that would breathe alot of new life into old titles imo. Even if you own them already you'd want to download them on the Rev to play them a new way.
I really of think NIntendo could design some middleware so one could personally tweak the new controller to work with old games however they want to. Options for mapping functions of the new controller to old controls and tweaking the sensitivity etc.
And if the the 3rd parties jump on.. Sega games enhanced with the Remote would be glorious. Sending Sonic through loops with a flick of your wrist? There could be a slew of Dreamcast games in there too(Samba De Amigo, Jet Grind Radio, Ready 2 Rumble).
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 12, 2005, 12:19:47 PM
What everybody supporting this feature are saying that this feature will BRING in gamers. As stated there are several reasons why this rocks.
1)You don't have the systems anymore, and desire to play your old games.
2)You want to find rare games you missed out on.
3)You never played old Nintendo systems, and now want to catch up.
4)You are a collector and want everything Nintendo.
5)You just want to clear some of the clutter, and the Revolution really helps you in that process.
Yes, you can't say that these games are NEW games, and add the Revolution as a new game library.
However, they do add to the library by being available for play on the Revolution.
This is a much bigger deal. It bring all sorts of people back to Nintendo.
1)Young generation falling the Retro trend.
2)Older gamers wanting to re-experience games they grew up on.
3)New Gamers that just feel new games are too complicated can now download simplier classics.
4)Nintendo fans.
5)video game fans.
All these people are now looking at the Revolution as a virtual musuem for gaming. All the classics can now be played once they are available for download.
Does this mean Nintendo can go 2-3 months without a new game release no. But it could mean that could easily survive 1 game released a month from them, and then added 3rd party support. It does relieve them SOME stress of gaming release dates.
Post by: JonLeung on December 12, 2005, 12:21:10 PM
Monopoly on retro games = WIN for Nintendo (at least among those who are nostalgic)!
I know there's more to game history than just Nintendo and Sega but certainly Nintendo-AND-Sega is a much bigger chunk than the fairly large just-Nintendo.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 12, 2005, 12:27:27 PM
If Nintendo can get major 3rd parties to support the download service with their classic games, then they have succeeded and gathering MOST of the important moments in console gaming history.
Sega Master System and Genesis would be a plus, but not necessary. Besides, Sega might feel overwhelmed by the selections of Nintendo classics, and go with Microsoft for better sales and penetration. It is hard for Sega to compete with the BEST.
Post by: blackfootsteps on December 12, 2005, 12:34:16 PM
Post by: ThePerm on December 12, 2005, 12:34:55 PM
Post by: IceCold on December 12, 2005, 02:09:16 PM
QuoteHardly... the Rev has 2 more generations! And the 2D ones at that - the true retro games. Don't see Sony with any of those
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
And if you count them then the PS3 can play every PS2 and PS1 game so that kind of balances out anyway.
Post by: JonLeung on December 12, 2005, 02:20:47 PM
And until that supposed "Internet2" launches or whatever it is that's ten thousand times faster than most people's current Internet experiences currently are, I don't see Sony offering downloads of PSX games. A full one would be over 600 MB, and then some games are multi-CD. You can't download that as fast as an 8 MB-32 MB N64 game.
Henceforth, Nintendo's back catalogue > Sony's.
Post by: heinous_anus on December 12, 2005, 10:01:20 PM
Spak-spang, I'll completely agree with most of what you said if you nix that statement. I also hope that people will buy the Revolution simply for this concept. The virtual console, however, should be treated as a ridiculously nice feature, no more, no less. It should have no bearing whatsoever on the kind of new material Nintendo brings to the Revolution, or when/how often said material comes out.
Post by: couchmonkey on December 13, 2005, 05:26:09 AM
1. I agree with Ian, in that I think the only way to make Revolution's library look better than Sony's is to have more brand-new games. The backwards compatibility is nice, and may be a huge selling point in it's own right, but it won't be seen as part of the library by Joe consumer scanning the shelves in Wal-Mart or Toys 'R Us.
2. I agree with others in that I think the virtual console concept could be a huge selling point and it does offer the 8-bit and 16-bit games that Sony doesn't. I think it has the potential to reach an audience that used to love videogames but lost interest as they became more complicated. The games are also going to be a lot easier to get your hands on than say, most PSX games. You don't need to phone every shop in town or go on Ebay to find that game that's been out of print for 7 years.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 13, 2005, 06:21:28 AM
That's a good point about the shelves. The download service is something that will probably require a bit of research. If you're just some guy browsing the store even if you know of the feature you're not going to know exactly what is available without research. You're just going to see the Rev section and the puny Cube section. Meanwhile you'll see the huge PS3 section and huge PS2 section. Sure the Rev will have in total more games available but you have to go the extra mile to know that. Shelf space tells a lot. Even when the N64 technically was the market leader I thought the Playstation was winning because it had twice the shelf space.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 13, 2005, 06:39:42 AM
I could see Nintendo designing download cards that you can pickup at the stores, perhaps able to be placed on the end shelf or something.
I could see download cards with pictures of famous Nintendo characters, Game Systems, and Classic Box Art. Stuff that shows the history of Nintendo on a simple card.
As well, I think Nintendo needs to design special sheving space for the Nintendo Revolution that contains banners advertising the Controller, and Download service. A nice slogan could be:
"The History of Nintendo, in one simple Box."
or
"Your gaming History, Your Nintendo."
or
"Your gaming memories, Your Nintendo."
heinous_anus:
I don't mean to say Nintendo can slack off and not produce and release games on a timely basis, or that they can ignore third party development. But I am saying that with the download service if you have slight delays in games coming out, it will not be as bad as it was during the Nintendo 64 or Gamecube eras because you can always download a classic game you never played and get your gaming fix. Does it allow Nintendo to slack off and leave us with huge gaming draughts NO. But, it does mean that the waits between games will be alittle easier to handle, because the Revolution will have more content available for it than we could ever have time to play. It just relieves SOME, but not all the stress of small gaming draughts.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 13, 2005, 07:10:11 AM
What about POP material in the store that shows some of the more popular games for download? A lot of old print ads in the 80s and early 90s would show a whole bunch of games with one screenshot per game and the title of the game underneath. You could probably fit like 50 onto a cardboard box about the size of a game case. It shows how the Rev download service has tons of games and has a bit of a nostalgia feel.
Here's an example of the old ads I'm talking about. It's for the Genesis but you get the idea.
Post by: eljefe on December 13, 2005, 08:15:19 AM
Can you imagine we used to buy games just from seeing one screenshot?
man..
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2005, 08:28:14 AM
I've heard that when people when people can't come up with a decent reason to bash something they start picking on whatever they can, so if the service is really successful, people are going to say it's an excuse for a lack of new games, whether or not there truly is, until or unless the Revolution library ever surpasses the PS3's, which would be difficult to achieve.
Anti-Nintendo fanboys are pretty much alike. I remember saying early on this generation that the GameCube was easier to develop for, to which an anti-Nintendo guy screamed "That just means there'll be more crap on the system." I probably should've responded with that the PSX was easier to develop for than the N64 so how is that any different? Many Sony followers are going to count the backwards compatibility of the PS3 as adding to its library but not the Nintendo download service as counting in the Revolution library.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 13, 2005, 09:23:23 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 13, 2005, 09:54:31 AM
They work well as gifts too.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 13, 2005, 11:08:46 AM
I can see a corner display, that has several screenshots of games available for the Download service and then have the download cards below to pick up.
The cards are a great idea for several reasons.
1)You can give them as gifts easier.
2)If you use the Revolution with your kids then its safer then then them popping the Credit Card in and downloading whatever they want.
3)Helps establish that online is truly free. "Hey I don't have to put my credit card into the system to play online."
4)Store presence, and will help with impulse buyers in the store.
5)Can be packed in with games.
6)Could be handed out at events.
7)Easy contests. Just place a card into a purchase. It may be worth 1 download. maybe 25. How cool would that be as a bonus to buying your game.
8)Is much more friendly to nongamers and nonPC players.
Anyway, I love the idea of a large display with multiple game shots from all generation of Nintendo games. I also want the cards to look cool, and have a hip design to them.
Finally, I think it would be nice to download games and buy them online, but not use your Revolution for it. Instead when you register your Revolution, you create an account with Nintendo online, and any computer can be used to buy games. When you get home you boot up the Revolution and it begins to download. Or perhaps you can keep it on with a sleep mode, and it will communicate the transaction and download before you get home.
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2005, 11:19:20 AM
Anyway, I was just going to say that I was reminded of PlayCards (at Playdium, we used cards that were "charged" with a certain number of Credits or TimePlay). (You can see the cards and the card-reading device in the Lindsay Lohan movie "Confessions Of A Teenage Drama Queen".) They had neat designs, and some were promotional. Before I came on board they had GameCube ones to promote it at launch.
Back on topic, Nintendo's cards could have box art...at least the recognizeable ones, like the early NES ones. Or screenshots. Or collages of stuff. I imagine that they could look pretty cool, emblazoned with all sorts of Nintendo stuff, that I'd get a bunch simply for the sole purpose of collecting them. I'm sure if Nintendo decided to go with cards, they'd make a killing on crazy collectors alone.
Post by: 31 Flavas on December 13, 2005, 02:12:36 PM
QuoteLeave it to Ian to crap on Nintendo for a great feature.... I guess it really doesn't surprise me at all though. He craps on anything Nintendo.
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
What everybody supporting this feature are saying that this feature will BRING in gamers. As stated there are several reasons why this rocks.
Post by: IceCold on December 13, 2005, 02:22:52 PM
QuoteWow, I was actually thinking of those PlayCards when I found out about the download service! I've always thought they were a good idea - they're an obvious solution for those who don't have credit cards, don't want to use them online, or want something physical to show for it. The PlayCards were rechargeable, right? Maybe Nintendo could also do this with the Rev ones. And you're absolutely right, the amount of different ways Nintendo could decorate a card is astounding.
I used to work as a supervisor at Playdium Edmonton. (For those of you unfamiliar with the Playdiums, they were large "entertainment centres" (don't call them big arcades!) that besides a slew of arcade games, had party rooms, a sports bar, etc. I think there were four in Canada at the most, before two closed down (including mine) and one got bought by Sega or something.)
Anyway, I was just going to say that I was reminded of PlayCards (at Playdium, we used cards that were "charged" with a certain number of Credits or TimePlay). (You can see the cards and the card-reading device in the Lindsay Lohan movie "Confessions Of A Teenage Drama Queen".) They had neat designs, and some were promotional. Before I came on board they had GameCube ones to promote it at launch.
I love Playdium - whenever I went to Edmonton I would go there. They are a few others around - I know that there's one in Vancouver and one in Missisauga, but I rarely go to those places so I haven't been to one in a while. Yours closed down after the hailstorms, right?
Post by: ThePerm on December 13, 2005, 02:34:05 PM
Post by: JonLeung on December 13, 2005, 02:44:17 PM
But yeah, like I mentioned in another topic....for whatever reason I liked SmartBall, a Sony ImageSoft-developed Super NES game...most of their other games were crap though so no one would miss them if Nintendo never approaches Sony for those games.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 13, 2005, 02:47:37 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 13, 2005, 04:12:45 PM
Wow your allowing for higher cost games than most people.
I have always estimated that $1.99-5.00 was a good price per game.
However, it would be better and less confusing for cards to label them per download.
So something like
$5.00 for 3 downloads
$15.00 for 10 downloads
$25.00 for 20 downloads
Something to where it's a definate price and definate number of downloads...and it makes it easier to know what you are buying.
Post by: nickmitch on December 13, 2005, 04:58:54 PM
N64 titles should be of the highest cost with SNES and NES going down.
And the price ranges should be setup like that, and within the ranges some games should cost a dollar or two more than others.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 13, 2005, 05:44:55 PM
To some Super Mario Kart (SNES) is worth twice as much as Super Mario Kart 64.
I understand what you are saying about more recent technology and potentially larger games, however, that gets complicated fast. I guess you could just have cards for certain system downloads, but if you are going to do cards, it would be best to keep it as simple as possible.
A single price for a certain number of any download makes it simple, and understandable.
Post by: IceCold on December 13, 2005, 07:13:18 PM
They should also assign a credit value for each system based on how it sold or how high-profile it was - so small titles would cost less and bigger ones require be more credits to purchase.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 13, 2005, 07:58:53 PM
I used that Mario Kart example, because several people have stated they perfer the original to the N64 version. The original is also the only game with the Feather, so if you want to try that mechanic out then you have to buy the original.
Several things that were very cool about the first Super Mario Kart have not been recreated since then and it really makes the game stand out.
Still my favorite all time thing to do in Mario Kart was the bananna/green turtle shell trick on the last level of first cup in Super Mario Kart. You could literally make the CPU or Human Player repeat half a lap. It was great, and you could do it for several laps, and pretty much lap all but second place racers. Since then, that trick hasn't been nearly as rewarding or drastic a technique.
Post by: IceCold on December 13, 2005, 09:03:48 PM
So basically the best/most expensive to produce/highest selling/high-profile games on a previous console would be similar in credit value compared to the worst/cheapest to produce/low-selling/low-profile/niche games on the later system. The later console games are more expensive because of the technological leap. So, by that way of thinking, Mario Kart 64 would be more expensive to buy than Super Mario Kart.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 14, 2005, 01:43:06 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 14, 2005, 07:16:57 AM
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2005, 07:22:32 AM
thats only 40 million dollars
5*10*2=100 million dollars
12*10*2=240 million dollars
Post by: KDR_11k on December 14, 2005, 07:56:13 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 14, 2005, 08:39:22 AM
I'm sure they've got analysts working at Nintendo on this. If they charge little, then more people will buy. If they increase it, less people will buy, but maybe the profit is higher. If they charge too much, they'll make a lot with each purchase, but the profit will go down because too few people are buying. Ideally, they'll want to find the sweet spot - a price that the right amount of people will buy at for maximum profit.
I think this price should be lower than what you could pay for them elsewhere. I don't agree with Ian about Final Fantasy III (I assume he means VI) being $50 when the GBA remake coming out soon will probably be less than that. And with remakes and ports, you have to wonder if they would even have them available. I'm sure the GBA versions of the Super NES/Super Famicom games A Link To The Past and Mega Man & Bass kept them off the Zelda Collectors Disc and Mega Man Anniversary collection respectively. To me, that's stupid - a collection should be a collection of everything - but I can understand that they'd want to make money off the GBA remakes and not hurt their profits there when it's included in something else.
I think we talked about price in another topic...I don't think anything over $9.99 is going to be a good price. When you can get current-gen games at a deal for $20, a pre-gen game for more than half sounds steep. If you were paying for a mint-condition copy of a hard-to-find cartridge, sure you can ask for more. But for a download? Seems like much when there's nothing physical there to cherish.
Post by: vudu on December 14, 2005, 08:49:56 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 14, 2005, 08:57:21 AM
In that case too, how can you even justify $50 for FF III? Famicom game...who would translate it?...Japanese text... When it's very likely that FF III will come out on the DS even in North America...DS game...DS features...English text...3D graphics...
I can see the original Final Fantasy selling because of nostalgia, but if most North Americans haven't played FF III, there's no way it could be half a hundred bucks.
Post by: vudu on December 14, 2005, 09:35:21 AM
Half a hundred bucks? I've never heard that expression.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 14, 2005, 10:13:53 AM
Yes that's the Final Fantasy I was refering to. I don't think they should charge that price for that game but since it has never been released here I imagine they could probably sell a fair bit of copies at that price.
My point is that some games in stores start at $50 and stay at that price forever because people are willing to pay it while other games are 20 bucks a few months after release. The same principle could apply for the downloads where some games maintain a high price because they can get away with it while others are forced to become to encourage sales.
Any obscure game that goes for big money on Ebay could probably be sold at the cost of a brand new in-stores game and still sell because $50 is still cheaper than $100. I wouldn't pay that kind of money and I would be pretty annoyed if a title I wanted was priced that way but they probably could get away with it in a few situations.
Post by: wandering on December 14, 2005, 10:36:45 AM
Though I do agree that Nintendo should offer dynamic pricing - based on the quality ofr the games. I'd be willing to pay 20 bucks for Majora's Mask or Paper Mario, I wouldn't be willing to pay that much for Superman 64
Post by: JonLeung on December 14, 2005, 02:00:41 PM
If we're talking physical copies of the game, where holding an original cartrdige is worth something, yes. But we're talking downloads, in which case every download makes it less rare. You can justify certain games being worth more than others, but for any of them at all to be around the price of a new current-gen game to me seems kind of silly. I honestly don't see prices to be more than $9.99. I have been wrong before. Though I'm sure I can say I don't want them to be more than $9.99. If they were about ten bucks I'd buy a few games. If they were over twenty bucks I'm sure I'd buy next to none considering I played most of these good games already. If they were a couple bucks I'd probably buy like crazy, likely spending more than if they were ten or twenty bucks each. And Nintendo would want me to spend more, and willingly.
I think if games are going to be sorted by franchise as rumoured, there should be more of a reason for that. Maybe buying a couple games within the same series could provide discounts if you were to keep buying more within that same series. It would certainly get people hooked...if they bought Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 2, and Super Mario Bros. 3, then maybe they could get The Lost Levels for cheaper than if they just bought that. Or they could get a discount on Super Mario All-Stars, since it'd be the same games again, just with better graphics. And then if they bought Super Mario World, should they really have to pay anything to get the later version of Super Mario All-Stars that included Super Mario World?
And then there's Ocarina Of Time and Ocarina Of Time: Master Quest. Buying one should make the other one seriously discounted.
Of course, I'm ASSUMING (or at least HOPING) that recognizeable Japanese games that have had North American releases like The Lost Levels and Master Quest will show up, and on their respective original consoles. The Lost Levels was on the NES (Famicom if you want to get technical), but North Americans didn't officially see it until the Super NES, while Master Quest was for the N64 (or meant for it?) but came out for the GameCube (and only on the Collectors Edition Disc no less). I think games like these would sell since they're just as available on Nintendo's end to provide but many gamers could've easily missed out on them because of their original availability.
Post by: IceCold on December 14, 2005, 05:19:19 PM
QuoteYeah...linear programming. But you also have to take into account sales for actual Revolution games. If these games are too cheap then they're sure to be downloaded in droves, and it would seriously bite into the software tie-in ratio. Considering Nintendo has always been one to protect the software ratio (focusing on games, not other system functions), I can't imagine they would like that.
Originally posted by: JonLeung
I'm sure they've got analysts working at Nintendo on this. If they charge little, then more people will buy. If they increase it, less people will buy, but maybe the profit is higher. If they charge too much, they'll make a lot with each purchase, but the profit will go down because too few people are buying. Ideally, they'll want to find the sweet spot - a price that the right amount of people will buy at for maximum profit
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2005, 05:23:00 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 15, 2005, 06:50:43 AM
I've heard this a few times and it's just bugging me. Master Quest didn't come on the Collector's Edition Disc. That had the two NES games and the two original versions of the N64 games. The Master Quest was only available on the Ocarina of Time Bonus Disc that you could get by pre-ordering Wind Waker. Sorry to go off topic.
I like the idea of getting discounts based on buying related games or different versions. Hell I just like the idea of having different versions period. Nintendo has talked about adding new content and such and I get nightmares of the various GBA ports with dumbed down difficulty and annoying voices. I feel the original versions should always be available and considering there's no manufacturing cost there's no reason for them not to be.
I believe it's been announced that there's no region encoding so if you want the Japanese or European versions you can get them. So at the very least Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels for the NES should be available even if untranslated.
I wonder how this is going to work for the ESRB? The rating system didn't come into place until around 1995 so there's a good ten years worth of unrated games. Plus the ESRB ratings don't apply to games outside of North America so how will that work for the Japanese downloads?
Post by: KDR_11k on December 15, 2005, 07:58:01 AM
The question is why would you buy that if you could grab All Stars, get better graphics, the option to save and all the other SMB SNES games instead? Unless Nintendo makes it more than 4 times as expensive (or each "time" is more than 1-2$) that should be the option to go with.
I'd be more worried about the ratings in Germany TBH. They are legally enforced, obviously apply to online sales as well and unrated automatically means 18+. Except for the NES Classics series all NES and SNES games are unrated and I don't know what the fees are (the official testing regulation refer to the cost regulation for that and that isn't available online). On one hand a game that won't sell much and isn't sold for much might not be profitable to get rated, on the other hand that doesn't stop some cheapass publishers from making games that sell for 3 Euros and even get them into stores.
Post by: JonLeung on December 15, 2005, 08:33:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I've heard this a few times and it's just bugging me. Master Quest didn't come on the Collector's Edition Disc. That had the two NES games and the two original versions of the N64 games. The Master Quest was only available on the Ocarina of Time Bonus Disc that you could get by pre-ordering Wind Waker. Sorry to go off topic.
Ah, you're very right. I have both discs so I got them confused. You got me there.
Quote
I wonder how this is going to work for the ESRB? The rating system didn't come into place until around 1995 so there's a good ten years worth of unrated games. Plus the ESRB ratings don't apply to games outside of North America so how will that work for the Japanese downloads?
Now this is where I can be more specific. It was 1994! (Okay, you said "around 1995".) For some reason I remember Donkey Kong Country being one of the very first Nintendo-developed games (if not the first) to have a rating, and it was K-A (Kids To Adults) which was replaced by an E later. I remember in a game store a mother not reading the rating (though I'll let that slide since they were new) and asking if Donkey Kong Country was violent, since apparently she didn't want her kid playing Street Fighter II. From what I've seen of Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat (I think the first to have E10+), DK does get pretty brutal, but a platformer like DKC? Hah!
Okay, I'm going off topic here, kinda. So yeah, about the ratings...
From what I hear it's a process on the part of the developer, to submit the portions of the game to the ESRB, probably general gameplay and especially any scenes that might be questionable. The ESRB would have to enforce something somehow or do something different. Can they really ask companies to go over all their old games again and screen for content?
I don't remember if it was actually confirmed that Japanese games would be available (since we're not even sure what North American games would be)...if it was, I'd like to see the source again...
I was GOING to say that the ESRB could assume that all older games (foreign or not) are E but then I realized what a bad assumption that would be. It's true that for older games you're unlikely to have descriptors like "realistic violence" but there are still some games where brutality and gore is evident. Even in North America series like Splatterhouse probably should've had a warning if it didn't already. Some of the fighting games that were popular before the ESRB came into place could've easily been at least T. Cultural takes on what is acceptible probably affect ratings, too. Notice how in Street Fighter Alpha 3, Sakura's brother (the Eternal Challenge art book says it's her brother, anyway) is playing a video game by holding a controller in his lap and moving his hands rapidly. Look at the Japanese version. He's playing with a "joystick", all right, but he's not playing a game...o_0 How did they get away with this originally, or do the Japanese just not care? Which is weird because DOA:XBV is 18+ in Japan.
Post by: vudu on December 15, 2005, 08:36:34 AM
QuoteWorst case scenario, you can send your flash card (or your entire Revolution) to a friend in a neighboring country and have him buy you a bunch of games and send it back for your enjoyment.
I'd be more worried about the ratings in Germany TBH. They are legally enforced, obviously apply to online sales as well and unrated automatically means 18+. Except for the NES Classics series all NES and SNES games are unrated
Post by: ThePerm on December 15, 2005, 10:37:16 AM
Post by: IceCold on December 15, 2005, 02:59:06 PM
QuoteWell, I think Merrick confirmed that there would be servers in different countries, so you could download the Japanese version if you wanted to. I can't source it, but it was in one of the many interviews in which he leaked Rev info.
I don't remember if it was actually confirmed that Japanese games would be available (since we're not even sure what North American games would be)...if it was, I'd like to see the source again...
Post by: KDR_11k on December 16, 2005, 05:12:16 AM
Post by: vudu on December 16, 2005, 08:46:04 AM
Post by: animecyberrat on December 16, 2005, 06:21:11 PM
First piont that was brought up that went over looked was by the perm I believe. He asked about Sony mage Soft games, I too was curious about this because they actualy have some great games, along these same lines though I was thinkng of Psygnosis which is now a part of Sony last time I heard, and they had some kick ass games also that would suck if not abailable for DL.
Also what about acclaim or even Takara/SNK? Takara, a toy comapny which publsihed most SNK neo goe fighters recently merged with Capcom i Believe or was it Namco? Anyways not getting Samurai Showdown or Art of Fighting will be a real bummer also. I dont knwo if its been confirmed if 3rd party games will be available or not but if so it will suck to not be misisng some of the greats. I seriously will be affected if Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter II Turbo arent available. Of course Ill get over it cuz I have MK CD for Sega CD and SF2 Turbo for Genesis but thats besides th point.
Also I wanted to mention a couple things about the Virtual COnsole as a sellig piint, I already know five people I have told about tehrev that are die hard sony fans boys, I mean DIE HARD (out of thr five three of thrse guys own 2 or mroe Ps2 and all of them owna psp) All five of tehse guys have told me that if teh rev is cheap enough they will get the system just for teh old games. two guys even stated they woudl ONLY but it for thr old games as tehir ps3 will be where they put thier new incarnations of NBA Live and Madden football and etc.
Also my parents, my sister who swicthed from Nitendo to SOny cuz she hated everythig n64 related, also mention she would get one if its cheap enough cuz of the retro games and thast it for her she will stick with Sony cuz she hates Nintendos new stuff. Also my parents have been talking about how cool it will be to get Dr mario and Tetris and Duck Hunt again cuz those are games they play, plus with teh new games for the controller I would consider them sold.
Then theres teh gusy I wrok with who already got xbox 360s and the only thing still attracting them to tehr ev is the Virtual Console. Like it or not that is goin to be *THE* selling point for thousands of people.
I myself prefer old games over most new ones and my game collection is primarily made up of Copliation disks. I currently own and play Midways arcade treasures 1 and 2 (I plan to get three after christams if not for) I have Namco Museum and plan on gettng teh 50 anniversary edition, Sonic Mega Collection and Gems Collection, Super Smash Bros Melee (I play this game solely for nostalgia I collect trophies like mad!), Mega Man Anniversary collection, (plan on gettoin X collection after christmas) and Zelda Collectors edition. Not to mention that I am currently playing five NES Classic series GBA game son my ds and am activley seeking teh rest of the series, so for me I will spend more time and money on teh revs virtual console feature also, espacialy since I have serius doubt about the controller and have been so dissapointed with most n64 and GC games I will maintain what is my comfort zone and stick to what I like.
So beleive me when I say that the big selling point for the rev is the nostalgia, and its most likely the reason why Nintendo decided to included it because this is far cheaper and more profitabel for them than constantly re-releasing old games as GBA carts or Collectors disks.
Like i said liek it or not there4 is now stopping this form becomeing teh major selling point for tehrev, I just hope that Nintendo can get back the magic they lost in recent years
*flame shield ON!*
So take this all as you will but I say wait and see what happens.
Also No one has adressed HOW the games will be paid for, credit card/debit?, virtual points accumulated durring online play? Pre paid cards like napster uses? I am curiuos about this because it will make adifference to me and many of my friends. I read a couple theories but has Nintendo said anything official yet?
Post by: JonLeung on December 17, 2005, 04:46:40 AM
They may buy a Revolution to be able to access all the old games alone, but don't you see? That makes it easy for them to now at least consider getting Revolution games. They can stop by the Revolution section of the game store and actually peruse it since they've already got one in their home. Not like the GameCube where if they're happy with their PS2, they see no reason to get a GameCube and don't look at the GameCube section, and if they don't look at the GameCube section they never consider getting one.
I don't know how many people bought a PS2 for the DVD player functionality, but for those that did, it was probably a way for them to consider PS2 games where they might not have before.
If they Revolution is as revolutionary as they promise, then I have no doubt that the new games will at least be interesting enough to play and good enough to put money down on. They wouldn't design an unorthodox controller to play old games. If they can come up with a Super NES/N64 shell or some way to play those games without a problem then it's all good.
Nintendo is using the past to sell the future. I like it.
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2005, 10:22:31 AM
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2005, 10:24:37 AM
Post by: nickmitch on December 18, 2005, 11:18:39 AM
Still a pretty penny though.
Post by: JonLeung on December 19, 2005, 08:36:18 AM
While there will still be some costs, it'll likely be nothing like the original costs of developing the games, so with that out of the way, they would make quite a lot. A much greater percentage of that is pure profit.
Post by: KnowsNothing on December 19, 2005, 08:55:19 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 19, 2005, 10:04:11 AM
Personally, I can see myself downloading about 20-50 games from the NES, SNES, and N64 era games.
The Legend of Zelda Series
Super Mario Series
Super Mario RPG series
Mario Kart Series
Kirby
F-Zero Series
Mario Paint
All Nintendo Puzzle Games
Super Metroid
If 3rd party games are available
The Mega Man Series
Castlevania Series
Bomberman Series
Street Fighter
Final Fantasy (some)
Madden Football
Mario Tennis/Mario Golf
That is just off the top of my head. I know I am missing some seriously great games and franchises.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 19, 2005, 11:03:51 AM
Post by: animecyberrat on December 19, 2005, 06:53:38 PM
I know that even for my GC I own more compilaton disks than anything else and mostly play Smash Bros for the trophies and the Adventure mode. I love that you can play threw the mushroom kindgom as practiacly any major Nintendo Character AND that those cool Ice Climber were inlcuded. Theres one things that still worries me about the virtual console, and correct me if Im wrong, but what about the games Nintendo made BEFORE the nes (as much of a shock as that may be to some of you they actualy used to make games for Atari!)
Im talking about Popeye (my personal favorite form that era), Donkety Kong (preferabley arcade version cuz 2600 and NES both sucked), Original Mario Bros (original arcade version also cuz updated GBA version wasnt as cool).
Also I am curious about thier post NES arcade games, like Killer Instinct 1 and 2, Crusin Usa series or what about Mike Tysons Punch out, will Rev get that or the regular Punch Out remake-rip off.
Also will there be remakes or sequels to other games besides the main five (Mario, Star Fox, Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero) Like will there ever be Kid Icarus, or new Ice Climbers? or a remake of Popeye? Or how about a Mario game set in the MushrooKIndgod with Fire Fire flowers, Star Men, Magic Mushrooms, Koop atRoop as and etc... THATS WHAT I WANT! Yes I am excited Nintendo will revive someold franchises with this service but what about making brand new games for the rev based on old ones? Also wheres Super mario PRGs real stunning 3d sequel been hiding? I mean with visuals to rival FF series (teh real FF not CC crap)? Thats another big game that could have done better if it hadnt been 'flattened and kiddified' into Paper mario. I so hope Mario RPG gets a revival on the rev.
While were still talking games who else want s to see a brand new Turrican game for teh Rev? Imagine using the controller (if you must) to toss your rope to the ceiling and swing across as you use the analog stick to steer. It could consieveabley be a 1st person style game like Metroid Prime but 3rd person would suit it better. Tell whoever makes those games to get on it right now! I nkow Factor 5 and Data East a Genesis Turrican but cant rememebr who did Super Turrican since I sold it a long time ago.
EDIT: I for got to add that Id be willing to pay as much as five dollars agame for NES games and maybe more for SNES games who else thinks that fair not $2 tahst way too low I think. 3.99 bottum line I think.
Post by: JonLeung on December 20, 2005, 03:42:22 AM
My first video game was actually Nintendo's own Donkey Kong, bundled with the ColecoVision. There was also Donkey Kong Jr. and Popeye. As you mentioned, they were also on the Atari, but I'm pretty sure they were also on the NES.
I think that Nintendo will pretty much ignore anything pre-NES. Unless GB/GBC games are included (and transferable to the DS, preferably) you probably won't see those Game & Watch Gallery games, either.
Post by: animecyberrat on December 20, 2005, 06:38:07 AM
Well I dont knwo about original DK I know Dk 3 and JR were on NES but I thought origianl DK wasnt because it was on everything else. I could be wrong. Also I forgot a lot of thier names but Nintendo had several Arcade games that didnt make it to any home systems cuz NES couldnt handle them and Nintendo didnt liscense out their games to competors anymore. But I forgot what games they were. The agme an watch are already on GBA and likely get ported to DS so its not an issue, and GB is seperate soe I expwect them to port GB games to undated GB systems not consoles, thats how they generaly do things. I think Sega has bene the only company to port thoer handheld games toa console so far and I donnt knwo if its works for them or not.
I like the games availabel on Sonic Adventure 1 but havent unlocked any of my other Sega games that supposedly have them. I hope Sonic gets to the rev nowthat I am thinking about it. Of Course for that I would use teh shell I think. And didnt someone at NOA or was it Sega say that they are considering getting Genesis games for teh service? I knwo many Genesis and 32x games are on that video game website If orgot what its called buit you DL the program and pay monthly to get games, most of teh Good Genesis games are there so maybe they plan on doing somethign with them for Rev after all. Who knows except in order for that to work Nintendo woudl have to liscense teh Genesis emulartors from Sega and they might not want that. We had this same disccusion over at Sega boards on thier website but generaly speaking Sega fans hate Nintendo as much as Nintendo fans hate SOny. Me as a Sega fan I hate SOny for killing sega and trying to kill Nintendo.
Post by: JonLeung on December 20, 2005, 06:56:03 AM
Sega themselves I've grown more fond of, now that they've gone strictly into software and I've had a chance to play more of their games. (A roommate of sorts at one time had a Saturn, and my brother bought a used Dreamcast off of eBay.)
I think Sega's philosophies towards games are more respectable than Microsoft's or Sony's. Even if everyone's in it for the money I'd like to think Sega is more like Nintendo than the other guys.
That said, I keep saying Sega games should be on the service so the Revolution will have a monopoly on nostalgia.
I also think GB/GBC games should be downloadable and transferable to the DS. Then having both a DS and a Revolution should mean that you can play any Nintendo game, except the odd arcade ones like you mentioned, like the different Punch-Out!! games.
Post by: animecyberrat on December 20, 2005, 05:45:44 PM
Its funny for me I was the oppossite, I was die hard for Sega even though I liked NES i wasnt too into SNES untill way latter, then I realized they were both very good and similar. Dreamcast was actualy pretty close to GC in many aspects but had some short comings also. But as for teh Sega games on the Rev and Nintendo getting a monapoly on retro, not possible I think, cuz
Sega is already lending out their games in so many different ways already plus many Die hard Sega fans still hate Nintendo and Sony and will support Microsoft as their flagship console, this I knwo from many disscussion over at sega.com forums and being a sega fan myself. I actualy counted my games today and I have more Sega made games than all my others combined and I have all but 2 of thier systems and thats only cuz MS was a NES basicaly and Saturn i JUST got rid of cuez it was boring me and was too hard to find games for. What I would liek to see though is Sega make brand new games using the rev idea, like a new NiGhts into Dreams that would ROCK on teh rev if the revmote thingy is as good as they say it is, thats ONE game I know will have ME convinced that its worth having a rev for. Now that I think about it its time to send a nother email to good Old Sega and let them knwo that Idea just incase they are too busy with other things to think clearly.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 21, 2005, 05:00:58 AM
Wonderboy in Monster Land is still a game I remember fondly, and wished I had beaten.
If Nintendo was to negotiate and work with Sega to get their games on the Revolution it would be another huge selling point. Complete modern gaming history in one little package. $150 would be a steal for that. And this seems like something Nintendo would invest its money in for 2 reasons:
1)It helps keep an exclusive selling feature (old skool gaming) only one the Revolution and not on either the Xbox or PS3 with Sega.
2)It is something that wouldn't cost too much more money to impliment except for the licensing agreement.
Though I must say IF this happens...I don't see myself buying any new Revolution games, except for the essential Nintendo releases.
Oh, and Nights Into Dreams would be a perfect canadate for a Revolution game. The 2D flight based mechanics would be very easy to pull off with the controller...and the skill of flight would be represented by how fluid you could pull off flips and spins and such with the controller.
Post by: ThePerm on December 21, 2005, 07:38:12 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 21, 2005, 12:40:13 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 22, 2005, 05:32:54 AM
When the Super Nintendo was launched I sold my Genesis and picked up the SNES to live happily ever after. Super Mario World and F-Zero were all I needed to keep me busy for months.
However, to play a few of the old Master System games again. Great Football, Great Baseball, Wonderboy in Monsterland and such...I really miss those games for the SMS.
Post by: ThePerm on December 30, 2005, 12:18:03 PM
