Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 30, 2005, 07:32:07 AM
If rare's on board then my list is as follows:
Super Mario Allstars, StarFox 64, Pilotwings, Killer Instinct Gold, Diddy Kong Racing, and Majora's Mask. Realistically though, It might turn into an addiction to collect them all. Meaning, I might just...buy them all....when it launches (I'll definitely buy them all sooner or later).
P.S. I think Nintendo should call their system the RES (Revolution Entertianment System). People would say "I want to play some R.E.S (like NES)" Or maybe even "I want to play some rez (or rev)"
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 30, 2005, 07:34:53 AM
Anyway, Super Metroid. I'm a Metroid whore.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 30, 2005, 07:35:06 AM
Pilotwings 64 (because I can't find mine ;_;.)
All the Zelda games (because I need all Zelda in every format even though I have them all already =D)
Oh, and I REALLY want Terranigma so badly, you have no idea...Here's looking at you, Enix! >=O
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 30, 2005, 07:37:13 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2005, 07:48:40 AM
Super Mario Allstars
Super Metroid
Super Mario World
Yoshi's Island
Star Fox
Star Fox 64
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark (Please)
The Legend of Zelda (all)
Super Mario 64
All Nintendo Puzzle Games
Super Mario Kart
Mario Kart 64
Super Mario RPG
The simple fact is. I may not even buy a launch title for the Revolution and just spend that money on old School downloads.
Post by: JonLeung on November 30, 2005, 08:05:08 AM
I'll probably buy my whole game library again. Ooooh, Nintendo is making me pay twice for my games - and willingly! Smart. Most of my games from the Super NES and up are the exclusive first-party games, though my NES probably won't last forever so hopefully the games I have for it will be included. While big companies like Konami are likely to be on board, if any are, (so I won't miss out on buying Contra), I fear for other NES games I once owned from smaller/gone/absorbed/where-are-they-now companies (like my beloved Blaster Master from Sunsoft).
But more importantly, I'll be buying the games I feel I should have but don't.
Being the Nintendo fan that I am, I will probably get all the Mario games (I never did own All-Stars), the Metroid games (why did I sell Super Metroid? WHY?), and all the Zelda games (I never did own Zelda II and Majora's Mask until the Collector's Edition Disc...and now I question why I'm buying them again)...
Therefore, some games I'd be buying just for the sake of having them, more for the sake than replaying them the umpteenth time. Nintendo games have often been remade already (the main Mario games have all been remade except for Sunshine, all Zelda games are playable on the GameCube in some fashion...) so I wonder if the games I would actually be playing for the first time would actually be a small percentage of what I'm buying.
I really hope they don't charge too much...I'd be such a collector and much more so since it'll probably be very convenient. Even at the impossibly low price of a dollar per NES game you'd see me willingly put down $700 for the whole official North American NES game collection... I'd be happy, but I'd be broke.
Post by: Pale on November 30, 2005, 08:05:58 AM
Kid Icarus
Super Metroid
Earthbound
Then I'll just download everything else cause I'm a collection whore.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2005, 08:25:07 AM
Post by: Epitaph on November 30, 2005, 08:33:54 AM
ninja turtles
rc pro am
punch out,
mario bros 3
contra
dragonwarrior 1
breath of fire 1-2
rock and roll racing
cronotrigger
mario rpg
uniracers
zelda a link to the past
metal gear
megaman 1-4
bionic commando
kung fu
This is of course only if all companies come on board. Im just wondering if a company went bankrupt could nintendo include those games???
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 30, 2005, 08:35:21 AM
I just realized how insane this collect-a-thon could get. If square, sega, konami, and capcom where to jump on board, I don't know what I would do. Streets of Rage, Ninja turtles, Contra, Chrono trigger......
OH MY GOD!
Post by: odilon on November 30, 2005, 08:38:31 AM
Pilotwings (since I've never played any version of it...)
Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
...and many other's, I'm sure.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2005, 08:42:09 AM
All this depend on the pricing though. If Nintendo has the gall to charge over $1 American on NES games I'm not downloading anything on principle.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 30, 2005, 08:42:13 AM
Quote
If Nintendo has the gall to charge over $1 American on NES games I'm not downloading anything on principle.
Principle of stubbornness...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 30, 2005, 08:46:34 AM
I'd like to see the original gameboy games for download....Then, when the GBA becomes absolutely, I'd like to see all gameboy games for download.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2005, 08:53:51 AM
More like principle of not being a tool. The R&D for these games was done years ago and there are no manufacturing cost. This is almost 100% profit for Nintendo so if they charge too much they're just being greedy dicks taking advantage of the same morons who paid $20 for GBA versions of NES games they already owned.
I'll give them slack if they make like a director's cut or translate a previously Japan-only game. In those cases more work was put in.
If Nintendo is still going to give us the incomplete three-level NES version of Donkey Kong they better not charge more than a buck.
Although they haven't been annouced I think GB and GBC games should eventually be included since the DS doesn't support them. Plus original Gameboy games are long out of print. You can't buy a new copy of Metroid II anymore. Though since Nintendo considers the GBA as a current product still they probably have the mindset that those old games are still playable on "current" hardware and downloads would eat into their likely non-existent GBC game sales. It's probably going to happen someday though.
Are Gameboy games still sold new in Japan? Maybe that's the justification.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 30, 2005, 09:05:13 AM
Edit: Speaking of Gameboy games, I'd not only like to see them, but if possible I'd like to see the edges of the screen expanded. One of the main drawbacks to a lot of Gameboy games (I'm especially thinking of Metroid II and Super Mario Land II) is that you can't see very far in any direction so you're always ramming into stuff.
Post by: raptorspike on November 30, 2005, 09:51:48 AM
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2005, 10:44:11 AM
Oh, I'll get other games too. But... Balloon Fighter.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Pale on November 30, 2005, 10:47:01 AM
That said, you can add all my NES favorites to the list of downloaded games...
Namely...
Ice Climber
Balloon Fight
Wrecking Crew
SkyKid (if its there ><.. I think it was sunsoft?)
I'll tip my Rev controller sideways and fall back into my childhood.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 30, 2005, 12:10:50 PM
Super Mario World
Link to the Past
Goldeneye and Perfect Dark (if available)
More later, gotta go eat. Basically games I never played (or played but not owned) but have wanted to desperately.
Post by: UncleBob on November 30, 2005, 12:12:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian SaneMore like principle of not being a tool. The R&D for these games was done years ago and there are no manufacturing cost. This is almost 100% profit for Nintendo so if they charge too much they're just being greedy dicks taking advantage of the same morons who paid $20 for GBA versions of NES games they already owned.
So I'm left wondering, all the money that Nintendo is putting up for the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection, the servers and bandwidth, getting McDonald's (WayPoint, etc..) on board... I wonder where all that money is going to come from? You know, all those millions of dollars that Microsoft is supposedly losing on the Live! service (you know, the one that they charge for, as opposed to the one that Nintendo is saying that they won't charge for)...
Think it's going to come from 99 cent NES game downloads?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2005, 12:28:04 PM
Everybody complaining about price needs to remember that...and also needs to remember the CONVIENCE of having a system that plays all your games...specially old games that are rare hard to find, or that the save batteries have died on.
As I said, I am probably going to have a huge library of 50-100 choice games from all systems. I will have them saved on 2 backup SD cards and on the Revolution memory (until that fills up too much with other game saves).
I sold all my classic games with each new system so that I had money to afford the systems, and finally Nintendo is saying we understand you guys and we are bringing your favorites back.
I also hope for additions to games. I hope Mario 64 is turned into the Mario 64 DS with online verse mode to play.
I hope that multiplayer games are allowed to be played online.
I will say, don't get your hopes up for your favorite licensed games like Ninja Turtles. They may have a hard time releasing those games on the Revolution.
However, I am sure Nintendo has already got the big companies like Konami, Square, Capcom, Hudson Soft, and more ready to have game download service available. It woudn't surprise me if Nintendo did the work for them, and translated the ROMS into whatever Revolution secure format they will use to avoid hackers and piracy.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2005, 12:36:25 PM
I hope they do stuff like that but also offer the originals, likely for a lower price. Nintendo, well, screwed up their GBA ports because of meddling. Adding annoying sound effects and making games easier is not the sort of "additions" anyone wants to see. If they want to bastardize classic games so Yoshi has his crappy Story voice instead of the "yeah-uh" sound effect he had before, okay, but put the original up too so that it's preserved. Like any company Ninendo's style has changed a little bit over the years and it's noticable when you play game from across their consoles. I think it's important that that be preserved.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2005, 12:40:51 PM
I understand what you mean about meddling. Sure I want the original but I want new content occassionally too. However, I don't want them to be seperate downloads...I want them packed into the same download.
How awesome would it be if Nintendo quickly threw in just one more Cup for Super Mario Kart for the Super Nintendo using all the original sprites and such? It would be awesome, take Nintendo practially no time at all, and it would completely warrant a price tag of $5-10 dollars. Specially if they figure away to allow you to play 2-4 player games online. (I know Mario Kart is only 2 player, however Bomberman and such are more.)
Post by: UncleBob on November 30, 2005, 12:41:44 PM
Personally, I'd love to see an option to download new Super Mario Bros. 1 levels - perhaps a design your own level contest?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2005, 12:45:43 PM
Imagine a Mario and Zelda level editor for Super Mario 1-4/Zelda 1 and 3.
The download could be little more expensive since it would require definate work to develop. Perhaps $25-30.
And if you cry and say that is too much. Imagine the ability to play infinite levels from your friends and such downloadable around the world.
Post by: Renny on November 30, 2005, 01:35:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I am willing to pay up to $5.00 for a download game. I understand the infrastructure of the online service must be payed for. And I understand that these are still intellectual properties that have value whether you download it or buy the cartridge.
Everybody complaining about price needs to remember that...and also needs to remember the CONVIENCE of having a system that plays all your games...specially old games that are rare hard to find, or that the save batteries have died on.
As I said, I am probably going to have a huge library of 50-100 choice games from all systems. I will have them saved on 2 backup SD cards and on the Revolution memory (until that fills up too much with other game saves).
I sold all my classic games with each new system so that I had money to afford the systems, and finally Nintendo is saying we understand you guys and we are bringing your favorites back.
I also hope for additions to games. I hope Mario 64 is turned into the Mario 64 DS with online verse mode to play.
I hope that multiplayer games are allowed to be played online.
I will say, don't get your hopes up for your favorite licensed games like Ninja Turtles. They may have a hard time releasing those games on the Revolution.
However, I am sure Nintendo has already got the big companies like Konami, Square, Capcom, Hudson Soft, and more ready to have game download service available. It woudn't surprise me if Nintendo did the work for them, and translated the ROMS into whatever Revolution secure format they will use to avoid hackers and piracy.
This is OT, but before you buy 3 SD cards, consider that Nintendo will almost certainly enable copy protection on its emulated game files (as you alluded to in the last paragraph). Content Protection for Recordable Media at WikiPedia. Backups will probably be unnecessary though, as Nintendo could just maintain a list of what games you've purchased, and allow you to redownload them if you had to replace your card.
As far as price is concerned, the IP has value, but 20-year-old games have little unless it offers some collectibility (which the download versions won't beyond personal nostalgia), or at least some new packaging or features. I can't see many people sharing your fervor to spend $5 for an ancient NES game, despite how good it was then and how entertaining it might be now. They will have to offer some desireable games for 99¢ to make any impression on the public, and they might further still have to include the features you suggested at that price. But if the iTunes store is any indication, Nintendo will have a tough time delivering the games at a fair price even if they want to. Cash-strapped publishers will take heat from investors if they look like they're underpricing what is virtually free profit.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2005, 01:57:28 PM
Everybody brings up Itunes and mentions music. It should be $0.99 or $1.99 a song, but not more.
I think Itunes and music is a poor comparison to downloading games, however lets do go that route and compare just for a second.
People are downloading music that has very little value except that person is attached to the song and enjoys listening to that song. They in essence paying for the ability to listen to a 3 minute song over and over...or until they get tired or bored with the song. Many of these songs on Itunes are old music that you can probably buy used at music stores for cheaper than that $0.99 price per song for an album.
Now, lets talk about games. Old games are still being played and remade on the net everyday. Most of these games for full versions you must pay for the game. Usually much more than $5.00.
Old NES, SNES, and Nintendo 64 games. Will probably bring old and new players at LEAST an hour or more play time for the first run through. With the ability to play the games over again, and allow friends to play such games over again and with you. (Just like I-tunes.) However, where I-tunes makes you pay 0.99 for three to 4 minutes. You are Demanding Nintendo charge the same amount for an infinitely better value. 30 minutes of music would easily cost you over $10.00.
What more you are not just buying music with a game. You are getting an experience complete with media, sound, interaction, competition. There is alot of work involved. Yes, these IPs have already been payed for and have already made money for the company, but so has the OLD MUSIC.
And really $5.00 is not much to ask to replay Mario Brothers again as many times as you want. Go to an arcade and $5.00 will buy you 5 turns on your favorite racer or shooter. Go to the used games stores and try to buy Chrono Trigger or Super Mario RPG for $5.00. These games are more expensive than that.
I still consider it a value, before you even begin to tack on the idea that Nintendo is giving you free Wifi Revolution and DS connection instead of making you pay like Microsoft. It is still a value before you realize that these downloads are the only thing keeping you from having to pay for online and watching your favorite game company continue to loss money with an expensive online plan.
So, whatif the games are MORE than $5.00. What if they are $10.00? When does it become too expensive? Simple when people aren't willing to pay for the downloads...when people feel they are unjustly being ripped off.
Perhaps $10.00 for a NES game is too much. However, I will contend most buyers will still see Top SNES games and Rare SNES games a bargain at $10.00. Nintendo 64 games as well are a bargain at $10.00...and the reason is that the original IP no matter how old it is, and now matter how dated you think it is. Still has value to the fans that desire to play those games.
I think being able to buy 1 average next generation game for $60.00 isn't nearly the same value of getting 6-12 AAA classic titles from my favorite systems in the past.
Post by: King of Twitch on November 30, 2005, 03:47:23 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2005, 03:56:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Nintendo has obviously tinkered with a level editor for Super Mario Brothers 3 (remember the GBA version with the E-Reader support) So this isn't entirely impossible. All they would have to do is attach a simple code that allows it to access custom levels, and then sell a level editor download that could work with several games.
Imagine a Mario and Zelda level editor for Super Mario 1-4/Zelda 1 and 3.
The download could be little more expensive since it would require definate work to develop. Perhaps $25-30.
And if you cry and say that is too much. Imagine the ability to play infinite levels from your friends and such downloadable around the world.
Don't forget the F-Zero X track editor!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Renny on November 30, 2005, 04:37:33 PM
$5 at the arcade is an interesting comparison, seeing as hardly anyone in the west goes to arcades anymore. And at what point does it become too expensive? Before people feel like they're being ripped off. The games need to be priced such that people will download games on impulse. A game has to offer the immediate impression of being 'cheap' to reach the volume I anticipate Nintendo will aim for. You can't expect a person to hem and haw before coming to the conclusion that, "no, I don't quite feel like I'm being ripped off. I think I will download this game after I pay my CC bill."
And I don't give a damn about iTunes either. 99¢ is too much for one lossy, DRMed version of a song for me. I do just what you suggested, buy a used CD for cheap and rip my own copy.
And this is somewhat off-topic also, but I'd like to see a large market for downloadable indie games. Pricing classics into this range could hurt those sales. That is if Nintendo follows through with its promises of cheap development and online distribution. I don't think they ever explicitly promised delivering games without publishers, did they?
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2005, 05:02:36 PM
Post by: LinkZero on November 30, 2005, 05:19:32 PM
Starfox 64
Perfect Dark(do N still have the rights ?)
Post by: IceCold on November 30, 2005, 08:38:27 PM
Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger (if possible), Uniracers, World Cup Soccer NES, Zelda II, and quite a bit more.
I still have Super Mario Bros and Super Metroid, but I just can't pass up on downloading those - it would be a crime. I don't know if I'll download anything else that I already have, but once I know the pricing, I'll condier it..
Post by: KDR_11k on December 01, 2005, 03:45:27 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on December 01, 2005, 05:41:55 AM
On a topic someone brought up earlier, I'd also like to see all versions of a game included in one download. Give me Super Mario Bros. 2 / Super Mario Bros. 2 All-Stars / Super Mario Bros. 2 Advance all in one download. I think that would be really nice. Even if they sold them separately or as a bundle for a better price I'd be pretty satisfied.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 01, 2005, 06:14:03 AM
People would go on a frenzy buying whatever they want without second guessing themselves.
What Nintendo has to consider is whether they want that to happen. If people buy and play those games, who's going to buy the new ones?
Post by: UncleBob on December 01, 2005, 06:17:18 AM
Post by: Renny on December 01, 2005, 06:21:45 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 01, 2005, 06:35:02 AM
Supposedly third party games already have to deal with that. I think the whole arguement is flawed anyway since NES and SNES third party games had to compete with Nintendo's own games and didn't have any problem. Low third party Cube sales are usually because the game either sucks, is a weak port that has a better version on another console, or the Cube userbase is just too small to give third party games comparable sales as the competition.
Anyway I agree that 99 cent games allows for more impulse buys. I think at $5 most people would only buy games they don't have a copy of. 99 cents however is I think the sweet spot where people will impulsively replace their whole NES collection just for the novelty of having it all available from one spot. Why not go 50 cents? Because there's no point. 99 cents is the sweet spot. Both prices heavily encourage impulse buys so why not go with the one that brings in more revenue?
Post by: couchmonkey on December 01, 2005, 06:39:58 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 01, 2005, 06:44:44 AM
I don't know about you, but I'd rather buy 50 old games than a brand new one any day of the week. This might force companies to produce QUALITY in the market place. If I don't see a game that's instantly worth buying, then I'll consider buying Sin and Punishment more....
Post by: jakeOSX on December 01, 2005, 07:16:12 AM
i'd wager the $2.99 range. and some tiered pricing, like $1.99 for NES, $2.99 for SNES, $5.99 for 64 and $10 for cube... (out of print cube only, in print i assume would go for only slightly less than market price)
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 01, 2005, 07:21:58 AM
EDIT: info isnt how you spell enough
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 01, 2005, 07:35:21 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 01, 2005, 08:48:49 AM
And I still say they should get some kind of deal with Sega to get their games on there if Sega never plans to return to hardware. Monopoly on all old games = WIN. Anyone over the age of 20, even if they were in the Sega camp, would have to buy a Revolution now if they need any sense of nostalgia. At least get the Genesis library...
And then what about foreign games? Hmmm? At least European ones that wouldn't require translation.
But it's probably a sure thing that you'll be able to play something like the original NES Super Mario Bros. (which everyone has played umpteen times already) and extremely unlikely to download an obscure, foreign language Neo-Geo Pocket Color game (made by some nearly-unknown, now-bankrupt developer) to the DS, even if they technically could.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 01, 2005, 09:52:17 AM
All those games that weren't ported and/or different are now finally accessible.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 01, 2005, 10:13:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
If Bill wants whatever crazy japanese game he's been seeking (tannagima or something), it's his.
Terranigma...TERRANIGMA! >=O And it was released everywhere except the U.S., including Europe and Australia, so if Square-Enix will be kind enough to even put the game on the list I'd much rather go for the English version...
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 01, 2005, 10:45:58 AM
I don't think Nintendo will release the games for $5.00. But if they do, I wouldn't think it was a rip off. I think I explained why. I think several people that think its a rip off think so because of emulators and ROMS that have been available on the net illegally for free.
I am sure you are thinking why buy something that is several years old that I can get for free. Well, I don't agree with emulations and I try to avoid illegal software whenever I can.
$5.00 to play a great game is not too much. Also about the arcade comparrision...arcades are dying because the home market has equalled or surprassed what the aracades can do. It used to be arcades held deeper games with better graphics. Now, they only hold speciality games that cost more money to play.
Personally I believe the games will be around $1.99-$2.99. And my bet is on the higher $2.99 cost.
It has that 99 cent edge and is easily affordable for everyone.
Post by: BigJim on December 01, 2005, 11:56:37 AM
The iTMS is meant to sell iPods, rather than the other way around. It might be tempting to make it a direct profit driver, but I think they'd be smart enough to understand the value in selling older games very inexpensively. $2 could be cheap and convenient enough to deter some piracy, not unlike how people are willing to pay 99 cents for a song or $2 for last night's episode of Lost. And it helps make the Revolution look like a hot item, where their real profits will lie. So I'd say let the games sell the Revolution. Don't get greedy on the old library.
But I wonder if they'll actually sell games outright. I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a subscription model where games expired after so long.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 01, 2005, 12:58:59 PM
Nintendo is an artist in that case though so it's a little different. They don't have to share the money for first party games and a lot of the most downloaded titles will be Nintendo's own.
"But I wonder if they'll actually sell games outright. I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a subscription model where games expired after so long."
Okay if they did that I would definitely never download anything. That's not buying, that's renting. I think the whole feature would completely bomb if they did that.
Illegal roms has been brought up. Whether you like it or not that is Nintendo's competition here. With roms you can not only get games for free but you can get EVERY game including stuff like licenced titles that won't be made available on the Rev. The advantage of the Rev's service is mostly that you get to play the games on a TV on a console with real controllers and everything. I think people will pay for that but not too much for that. Nintendo has to find a price point where they can make decent profit while also keeping people from going the illegal route. Some are going to go that route anyway but I think they can keep the general public if they have a low impulse price particularly for the NES games. Remember they can charge more for N64 games. Part of the strategy could be to not make so much off of the NES but make up for it with higher prices for the newer games. Remember the 99 cent suggestion is for NES games not SNES or N64.
Post by: IceCold on December 01, 2005, 01:20:06 PM
QuoteIt's all about linear programming; Nintendo has to find the price that will yield the best results, taking into account that if the price raises, less people will download it, but the margin of profit will be more..
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
You realize that if they release it at $0.99 that they could generate a hell of alot more money then say $5 per game.
Nintendo has to find that sweet spot is for the different consoles - guess we can just wait and see what it'll be.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 01, 2005, 04:28:05 PM
I actually believe Nintendo may find away to somewhat bypass the whole idea of cost per download. They may just sell download cards in the gamestores. Perhaps something like this:
5 downloads $10.00
10 downloads $15.00
20 downloads $20.00
Or something like that. Basically you buy more you get a better price. Then IF you want to buy online for immediate convinence it could be $1.99 a game.
But buying them at the store solves some hassles with children and credit cards.
Post by: IceCold on December 01, 2005, 04:38:34 PM
Post by: JonLeung on December 01, 2005, 04:55:26 PM
Now, I get the feeling Nintendo's not going to have everything available for download right from the start. They'll probably have a few games from each series/genre to start with. Over time, they could release more games, even if they had them ready all along. It would maintain interest in the download service. I think they should have a good selection at the start, but good games could cause a clamour if they were deliberately held back.
"All right! The Legend Of Zelda comes out next week!"
"You mean Twilight Princess?"
"No! The original! I'm going to stay up all night to download it right at midnight!"
Post by: UncleBob on December 01, 2005, 05:58:06 PM
Post by: zakkiel on December 01, 2005, 07:34:45 PM
QuoteAs with all software produced by a hardware company, you also have to bear in mind that it will have an impact on hardware sales. Thus, if Nintendo is smart they will sell below the "sweet spot," making less money but getting more people to use the feature. More people using the feature=more valuable feature=better Rev sales.
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteIt's all about linear programming; Nintendo has to find the price that will yield the best results, taking into account that if the price raises, less people will download it, but the margin of profit will be more..
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
You realize that if they release it at $0.99 that they could generate a hell of alot more money then say $5 per game.
Nintendo has to find that sweet spot is for the different consoles - guess we can just wait and see what it'll be.
Post by: IceCold on December 01, 2005, 08:01:34 PM
Post by: Kairon on December 01, 2005, 08:02:07 PM
If iTunes really exists to sell iPods, does the analogy extend to downloads? Are downloads the cheaper-than-expected "hook" that gets people to pick up a Revolution, and after that anything's game?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 01, 2005, 08:07:11 PM
Packing in old games, or giving pre-order promotions is the best idea i've ever heard for promoting a game, and its somewhat easy and basically "free" for the publisher.
Post by: Kairon on December 01, 2005, 08:07:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
But it could also potentially hinder Rev software sales, if many people buy a Rev almost exclusively for the nostalgic games.
Nintendo's had userbase stagnations this past two generations. If the Rev can catch more userbase, EVEN if a lot of this userbase is initially only there for the downloads... I really don't think we'd be in a position to complain. Besides, they may think that they'll only get the Downloads, but they won't be able to resist a new smash Revolution game when they see one.
Also, an argument can be made that new modern games will be outcompeted by cheap retro titles. That may be true, but it hasn't happened so far on the PS2, though that isn't really analogous. Yet, we should keep in mind that NONE of the retro games will use the Revs gyroscopic abilities... except maybe DuckHunt and the Super Scope Games (OMG! I can finally play the T2 Superscope game! yay!). The gyroscopic controller, coupled with modern day advanced game designs and new Rev genres will probably enable new games for the Rev to be vastly distinguishable from the Retro offerings.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 02, 2005, 03:34:08 AM
It will pay off....mark my words....
Post by: JonLeung on December 02, 2005, 03:53:32 AM
Post by: UncleBob on December 02, 2005, 05:03:04 AM
That should answer the question as to if the PowerPlays are legal.
Post by: couchmonkey on December 02, 2005, 05:24:38 AM
Edit: I'm also not convinced that people who buy it for classic downloads will be swayed to buy new games. Especially if I can have all the classic games I wanted for a dollar, why would I spend $50 on some new game I've barely heard of? My girlfriend has a GBA, and the only games she wants for it are the exact same NES and Super Nintendo games she played 10 years ago.
Post by: JonLeung on December 02, 2005, 06:06:50 AM
Prices per generation just seem like a good idea because games are typically more elaborate each generation, so it makes sense to the consumer, and cost more to make originally, so it makes sense to the developer. But it's an assumption more based on graphics than gameplay. If you had a long NES RPG and a short Super NES arcade-style game, which should be worth more? Which would be more fair to charge more for?
But if games end up being priced differently based on gameplay, who makes these decisions? Even if it's strictly by genre, you'd have to be sure what the genres are, and what to do about multi-genre games or games that defy genre. (I insist that The Legend Of Zelda games are adventure games and not RPGs...no one ever calls StarTropics an RPG and they're very similar...but many people disagree with me and insist on sticking Zelda with the more turn-based or stats/numbers-heavy RPGs.)
Even if you could get a general pricing plan that works, either by console or genre, there's bound to be somebody who'll disagree with the prices of particular games.
Post by: Pale on December 02, 2005, 06:16:06 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 02, 2005, 06:32:20 AM
There was a brief perido when ever single time I happened to vist the mall, I would see a power play (sometime 2!).
Why me?!
Post by: JonLeung on December 02, 2005, 06:41:10 AM
That reminds me of some law that get adjusted or something a little while ago. Or maybe a year ago. Some law concerning old software that people mistakenly believed meant the decriminalization of ROMs and unauthorized abandonware. In reality it was all still illegal, but I think there was something about if a company that has the rights to them could still make money off of them, they would never be truly abandoned. I see the download service as not only being an extra source of revenue for Nintendo and all those other gamemakers involved, but also a way of enforcing their hold on their games. Like copyright extensions beyond the usual 75-year-hold. Or something.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 02, 2005, 06:59:14 AM
Also the cards give 3rd party developers a much easier means of spreading their classic games around as special bonus content to their Revolution games. Imagine Capcom allowing you to download 2 Mega Man games with the purchase of Mega Man Revolution, oh and by the way these 2 Mega Man games are ONLY available in this deal.
Literally it costs 3rd parties nothing, and yet it gains them the ability to sell their Revolution games easier.
Nintendo could also have the server set up to unlock certain Revolution games for download after you register a new game with them.
Spak-Spang just registered Super Smash Brother Melee, unlock Super Smash Brother N64 for purchase. Now he Registered Mario Kart Revolution, unlock Super Mario Kart and Super Mario Kart 64 for download purchase.
There are several ways Nintendo can increase profits by playing with the timing and releasing of download games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 02, 2005, 07:21:09 AM
Post by: ThePerm on December 02, 2005, 07:36:48 AM
Post by: JonLeung on December 02, 2005, 07:39:25 AM
Aren't NES games like 100-200 kB and N64 games like 4-16 MB? I'm not keen on an N64 game (@ 16 MB) being 160 times as costly as a NES game (@ 100 kB).
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 02, 2005, 07:50:02 AM
It'd just end up with Ninty making more profit per kB over NES games than N64 games...
Post by: JonLeung on December 02, 2005, 07:59:37 AM
But I think in the case of registered Revolution games "unlocking" games for download availability, I don't think that should be the case. Maybe someone really wants an old game but doesn't want to buy the new game for it. Sure, that'd be incentive for oldschool gamers to be more open to buying new games, but if they REALLY don't want to buy them then there's lost revenue for the download as well. But perhaps registering games could give you a discount on those downloads, or if Nintendo periodically releases some old games at a time, maybe registering games could let you get to particular downloads earlier.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 02, 2005, 10:47:16 AM
Personally though, I just hope Nintendo releases them all at once onto a server and allows everyone to download anything they want at any time.
Post by: IceCold on December 02, 2005, 08:00:59 PM
Post by: Zach on April 04, 2006, 03:55:15 PM
Hey, this is an old thread, but I thought it might be a good idea to bring it back up again since there will be Genesis and TurboGrafx (sp?) games downloadable. I didnt have either one of those systems, so I would like to see some reccomendations from you guys.
Post by: animecyberrat on April 04, 2006, 07:17:54 PM
Genesis on the other hand, this is gonna take a while so bear with me
Sonic 1-3
Sonic Spinball (best Pinball related video game ever)
Sonic and KNuckles (for SOnic 2 and 3 also)
Shinobi
Revenge of Shinobi
Shinobi 3 return of the Ninja master (best Ninja game ever)
Toe jam and Ear (absolute blast)
Toe Jam and Earl Panic on Funkotron (funny as hell!)
Ecco the Dolphin
Ecco the Tides of Time
Streets of Rage 1-3
Shining Force 1-3
Columns (fantastic fun puzzle game not as good as tetris but fun as hell)
Eternal Champions
X-Men (the one made by Sega)
Phantasy Star 1-4 (4 is the best 1 and 2 are ok and three I havent played but its phantasy star so its gotta be good)
Beyond Oasis
Biohazard battle (this is a MUST have game)
Gunstar Heroes
Ristar
Vector Man 1 and 2
Super Hang On
Super Monaco GP
DJ Boy (MUST HAVE GAME)
Afterburner 1-3
Cosmic Carnage (if 32X games are available)
Virtua Racing (and see ocne and for all what Genesis could do for 3d graphics!)
Virtua Fighter 2 (not 3d but decent 2d port)
Sonic 3-D Blast
Golden Axe 1 and 2
and the first game you shall DL is Altered beast
and thats all off the top of my head.
I will most likley be getting every Genesis game they offer even if I alread have them gotta support Sega after all.
Now this list isnt just a comprehensive list of their games these are all games worth downloading.
As for Nintendo stuf Ill be focusing mroe on NEs games than anything myself.
i also wanted to make a point in regards to the pricing that was not mentioned in the thread and thast what about those games that were made that FLOPPED and cost Nintendo money? This VC is surely a way for them to try and recoup those losses after all the years. i mean its what keeps Namco and Midway alive.
Post by: jasonditz on April 04, 2006, 07:52:30 PM
Anyhow, the thing I'd really like for my first NES download is probably Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar. For the SNES it's Uncharted Waters 2. For the Genesis it's Might and Magic: Gates to Another World. For the N64 probably WWF: No Mercy, unless there's finally an English version of Earthbound 64.
Post by: Kairon on April 04, 2006, 07:56:20 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: jasonditz on April 04, 2006, 08:17:45 PM
Sure, they could stick it at $10 a game and I'd probably buy a few, but it becomes less of a selling point that way. They stick them at $1 a game or less, and I'm going to buy hundreds... they get more money, I get more games, and I get a more compelling reason to buy the system. It's win-win.
In fact, here's my promise to Nintendo:
If you:
1. put a $0.99 a game download fee for NES, Genesis, and SNES games (you can charge more for N64 games if you like)...
2. get the 3rd parties I care about (Koei, Enix, Capcom, Konami, Sega, FCI, HotB) on board
I will personally buy 100 games on the day the system launches.
Post by: trip1eX on April 04, 2006, 09:04:07 PM
$20 for a N64 game would be too high. We know the DS has these types of games for not much more and they are on phystical cartridges and sold at retail. And the DS are new games for the most part. Also the development costs for N64 games have long since been charged to the company tab. $10 or less is more what I'm thinking.
NES games should be a $1 or $2. SNES would warrant $4-$5 pricewise. N64 $8-$10.
If NIntendo was smart they'd add some extra features to the games and try to charge a couple more bucks for each one. Save wherever you want. Play any level you want. PLay others online. Enhanced graphics. Stuff like that would make the titles even more attractive imo and would warrant a bit of a markup.
Post by: IceCold on April 05, 2006, 10:43:26 AM
QuoteIt's true that it will be more of a system seller if the prices oare cheap, but Nintendo also has to think about the effect that the VC games will have. If they're too cheap, then people will only play the old games, and the software tie-in ratio will be a lot lower. They won't let that happen.
Originally posted by: jasonditz
The thing with pricing is on systems like the NES where the ROMs cost virtually nothing to send to the end user, they should be trying to maximum profits, not price. The number of games I buy is going to be inversely proportional to the price per game.
Sure, they could stick it at $10 a game and I'd probably buy a few, but it becomes less of a selling point that way. They stick them at $1 a game or less, and I'm going to buy hundreds... they get more money, I get more games, and I get a more compelling reason to buy the system. It's win-win.
In fact, here's my promise to Nintendo:
If you:
1. put a $0.99 a game download fee for NES, Genesis, and SNES games (you can charge more for N64 games if you like)...
2. get the 3rd parties I care about (Koei, Enix, Capcom, Konami, Sega, FCI, HotB) on board
I will personally buy 100 games on the day the system launches.
Post by: TrueNerd on April 05, 2006, 10:58:06 AM
Post by: iMoron on April 05, 2006, 11:29:11 AM
Quote
NES games should be a $1 or $2. SNES would warrant $4-$5 pricewise. N64 $8-$10.
Hey... lets make a p-e-t-i-t-i-o-n! So that they don't go beyond those prices.
I would like to get... ... ... Soltice, Marvel Madness, Stunt Race FX, ... and any obscure game I never got a chance to play... LOTS!
EDIT: ... for a moment there I thought I was going krazy... I didn't remember ever typing: ... lets make a comic book! LOL, OK so p-e-t-i-t-i-o-n is converted to "comic book"... OK I will restraing my self in the future from using or sugesting that! ha, ha... nice one, comic book... LOL
Post by: MaryJane on April 05, 2006, 11:30:50 AM
I didn't have the privilege of buying any games before the N64 about a year after it came out. Everything I had before that was given to me, and mostly consisted of Mario games. Not complaining, but that's the way it was.
Now when the Rev comes out and I have the VC at my finger tips I'm going to have to come back to this thread and get a lot of the suggestions I see up here.
Thanks.
Post by: iMoron on April 05, 2006, 11:58:24 AM
it seems we will be on the look out for fun games we had little chance at playing in the past...
At least I had a few Nintendo Power magazines to keep me bussy, dreaming of becoming a game developer... lets see if I ever make it...
In the mean time I will try to catch up with the rest...
Post by: jasonditz on April 05, 2006, 12:04:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
It's true that it will be more of a system seller if the prices oare cheap, but Nintendo also has to think about the effect that the VC games will have. If they're too cheap, then people will only play the old games, and the software tie-in ratio will be a lot lower. They won't let that happen.
On the other hand, Nintendo generally sells its hardware profitably, so I don't think that's a big issue.
Get people to buy the system then let the new software sell itself.
Post by: OverHeat on April 05, 2006, 02:14:31 PM
Genesis
Golden Axe
Micheal Jackson's Moonwalker
Streets of Rage
Revenge of Shinobi
Atomic Robo Kid
Altered Beast
Truxton
Captain America and the Avengers
CastleVania:Bloodlines
Forgotten Worlds
TurboGrafx16
Ninja Spirits
Aliens Crush
Devil's Crush
Dungeon Explorer
Bonks Adventure
Splatterhouse
Bloody Wolf
Operation Wolf (only with rev controller support)
Parodius Da!
Legendary Axe 2
NES
CastleVania (Trilogy)
Super Mario Bros (Trilogy)
Ninja Gaiden (Trilogy)
Dragon Warrior (Quintology)
Bubble Bobble
River City Ransom
Chip and Dale's Rescue Rangers
Contra (Trilogy)
Zelda (Both)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
SNES
Super Punch Out
Super Metroid
Super CastleVania
Kirby's Superstar Adventure
Zelda: Link to the Past
Super Double Dragon
Super Street Fighter 2
Mortal Kombat 2
Contra 3
Super Mario World
N64
Blast Corps (too bad for me)
Conker's Bad Fur Day (too bad for me)
Killer Instinct Gold (too bad for me)
Mario 64
Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Zelda: Majora's Mask
Mischief Makers
Doom 64
Tetrisphere
Sin and Punishment (oh please oh please oh please)
The sad thing is, this is just a top ten for all systems. I am sure there are at least 2 or 3 games (or 10 or 50) I am forgetting about on the Genesis, Turbografx and N64. There are TONS of games I am not including in the list for the NES and SNES.
The even more sadderer part is, I AINT GONNA HAVE THE MONEY FOR ALL THESE DOWNLOADS!!!
*sob* *sniffle sniffle* *sob*
But wait! .... some of these I already have in compilations on my Gamecube, and with backwards compatibility, I dont have to worry about them!
Post by: IceCold on April 05, 2006, 03:04:59 PM
QuoteWell, I'm not worried about Nintendo; their games will sell anyway. I'm worried about 3rd parties - on the Cube multiplatform games sold horribly. I know, I know, they were useless ports and often late, but still, Nintendo always has this problem. If the VC games further detract from 3rd party game sales, the developers won't be happy..
On the other hand, Nintendo generally sells its hardware profitably, so I don't think that's a big issue.
Post by: iMoron on April 05, 2006, 03:26:34 PM
Imagine if they come and realeas games that were canceled at one point or another, sequels that never made it to retail... ideas that weren't put in to action but were already develop in an early stage...
Sequels like those could become extremly desireble! I would bet that many would be all over them... even if only for nostagia...
And consider that there is a market for old games as well a s new ones... people like me might be interested by old and new alike... there are some that could care less for the new consoles and their new games but would love to regain their old favorites... and there will be people that hate the past and just want, what they think, is new... There will be no problem because of the old games... there will be loots to chose thats for shure... and I will have my hands full...
Hope I manage to get the Revolution soon after its realease or on day one...
Post by: jasonditz on April 05, 2006, 03:45:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteWell, I'm not worried about Nintendo; their games will sell anyway. I'm worried about 3rd parties - on the Cube multiplatform games sold horribly. I know, I know, they were useless ports and often late, but still, Nintendo always has this problem. If the VC games further detract from 3rd party game sales, the developers won't be happy..
On the other hand, Nintendo generally sells its hardware profitably, so I don't think that's a big issue.
That's their problem, not Nintendo's, and probably not the average consumers.
Nintendo's problem with 3rd party support was that without it the system doesn't offer enough. If the third parties are pulling support because there's too much content and they can't compete with it, Nintendo's problem vaniishes.
And honestly, ours probably does too. If a third party can't bring enough to the table in a Revolution title to make me put my copy of Shining in the Darkness for the Genesis down, then what the heck would I buy it for? I have no question Nintendo and major 3rd parties like Capcom and Namco will find ways to justify purchases of new tiitles... irrespective of how cheap decades old roms are priced.
Still, I think if you use the backwards compatibility to get an enormous installed base, the third party support will come.
Post by: RiskyChris on April 05, 2006, 11:18:04 PM
I play KDC over the net with a friend from back home every now and then. Definitely one of my favorite games of the SNES era!
Uniracers was an awesome game too. I wonder where mine is? *digs through trash*
Post by: vudu on April 06, 2006, 09:29:57 AM
QuoteSorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think I've heard of any GameCube games being available on the virtual console.
Originally posted by: Kairon
Doshin. The. Frickin'. Giant.
As for my first download, I almost hate to admit it, but I've been itching to play Magical Quest starring Mickey Mouse again for ages. I really loved that game back in the day.
Post by: MaryJane on April 06, 2006, 11:08:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteSorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think I've heard of any GameCube games being available on the virtual console.
Originally posted by: Kairon
Doshin. The. Frickin'. Giant.
As for my first download, I almost hate to admit it, but I've been itching to play Magical Quest starring Mickey Mouse again for ages. I really loved that game back in the day.
Ah I totally forgot about that game. One of my favs from back then. Definitely the best disney game before kingdom hearts... although i hear the second one is disappointingly short.
Post by: Kairon on April 06, 2006, 11:54:25 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: vudu on April 06, 2006, 12:03:22 PM
Post by: Ceric on April 06, 2006, 12:53:34 PM
Post by: IceCold on April 06, 2006, 02:10:19 PM
QuoteI agree that with a huge userbase third party support is inevitable (look at PS2 - used DVDs to gain that userbase), but developers care just as much about the 3rd party software tie-in ratio as the installed userbase. The problem is that there are people who buy low quality third party games, but they just don't use Nintendo consoles. We can say all we want about 3rd parties having to actually put in effort into their games, but that doesn't get us anywhere. With a lower tie-in ratio, it would just give developers another reason to ditch third party support. Which is Nintendo's problem, and ours too..
That's their problem, not Nintendo's, and probably not the average consumers.
Nintendo's problem with 3rd party support was that without it the system doesn't offer enough. If the third parties are pulling support because there's too much content and they can't compete with it, Nintendo's problem vaniishes.
And honestly, ours probably does too. If a third party can't bring enough to the table in a Revolution title to make me put my copy of Shining in the Darkness for the Genesis down, then what the heck would I buy it for? I have no question Nintendo and major 3rd parties like Capcom and Namco will find ways to justify purchases of new tiitles... irrespective of how cheap decades old roms are priced.
Still, I think if you use the backwards compatibility to get an enormous installed base, the third party support will come.
Post by: jasonditz on April 06, 2006, 03:34:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
I agree that with a huge userbase third party support is inevitable (look at PS2 - used DVDs to gain that userbase), but developers care just as much about the 3rd party software tie-in ratio as the installed userbase. The problem is that there are people who buy low quality third party games, but they just don't use Nintendo consoles. We can say all we want about 3rd parties having to actually put in effort into their games, but that doesn't get us anywhere. With a lower tie-in ratio, it would just give developers another reason to ditch third party support. Which is Nintendo's problem, and ours too..
I think this goes back to what Iwata was talking about at the GDC, market disruption. There's not an inherent, indellable market for low quality third party games. No one buys a system because it's got the highest number of bad games. No one goes into the store saying "I'm going to buy a shitty game today". If in offering a slew of inexpensive, high quality legacy titles through the VC system, Nintendo ruins the market for crap... well, it sucks to be Vivendi.
But really, I don't think it hurts Nintendo's position. The quality titles aren't going to come out of Eidos and Vivendi anyhow, they're going to come out of the companies they usually come out of, Capcom, Namco, Sega, Square-Enix... and obviously Nintendo themselves. Those companies have nothing to fear from the 10-20 year old titles, most of which they made themselves. They know how to make a game worth buying.
