Post by: pudu on November 29, 2005, 11:15:34 AM
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Rare’s portable division still has a home on Nintendo handheld systems. While you won’t be seeing Rare games on the PSP anytime soon (or ever perhaps), Microsoft is more then happy to allow them to create some games for Nintendo’s portable market. According to EGM magazine, Rare is hard at work on two titles for the Nintendo DS. One of these titles is being said to take place in the Banjoy-Kazooie universe. I love the Banjo-Kazooie games, and my heart just might explode if Rare gives us another 3d Banjo game on the DS. I wonder what the other game might be?
As soon as I can provide a link/scan of the article I will post it here.
I'm personally not too overly excited about this but thought I'd post it anyway. I find it cool that MS is still letting them develop games for Nintendo portables.
Post by: Arbok on November 29, 2005, 11:47:37 AM
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Originally posted by: pudu
I'm personally not too overly excited about this...
Same, Rare's magic appears to have been long gone, and the only thing that they could release on the DS of interest to me would be a new Killer Instinct.
Post by: cubist on November 29, 2005, 11:52:24 AM
RARE GAMES WIFI WISH LIST
1. Perfect Dark
2. Killer Instinct
3. Jet Force Gemini
4. Blast Corp
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 29, 2005, 12:03:25 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2005, 12:06:04 PM
Anyhoo since Rare made GBA games I see no reason why they wouldn't continue to make DS games. It's probably a sweet deal for MS to leech of a competitor's product like this. MS benefits from both Nintendo's failings as a console maker and their success as a portable maker.
Post by: odifiend on November 29, 2005, 12:15:28 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 29, 2005, 12:19:31 PM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It just wouldn't be a thread about Rare without some comments about how overrated they are and how they're lost the magic. The only reason so many people here say that is because Rare's with MS now. If Nintendo still had them the same people who rag on Rare would be tripping over themselves to defend them. Grabbed by the Ghoulies as a Nintendo produced title would be defended by the same people that try to convince everyone that Luigi's Mansion and Pokemon Colloseum were great games.
Maybe some people, but not I...I don't go around praising bad games...And a part of me still has (blind) faith for Rare, particularly in the 2D sector...
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2005, 12:20:09 PM
They'll be included the Rev download service for sure and I would not be surprised if Nintendo allowed you to transfer NES and SNES games to the DS. Seems like a no-brainer idea to me considering the simularity to iTunes and how popular that is. Plus it gets DS owners buying Revs to make full use of their DS.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 29, 2005, 12:20:14 PM
Post by: Uglydot on November 29, 2005, 01:13:46 PM
Post by: odifiend on November 29, 2005, 03:59:39 PM
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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I've been saying Rare sucked since the 64. Goldeneye was fun, and I never played Perfect Dark, but christ Donkey Kong 64 was so goddamn bad it made me hate Rare simply on that basis.
sigh... now i'm going to have to disregard your opinion.
Seriously PD was that good (and since you had DK64 and had the expansion pak), it is a shame you never picked it up. I thought DK64 wasn't terrible. I didn't really get into Banjo Kazooie so I wasn't burned out of collectathons, maybe that is why I enjoyed it.DK Rap!
Ian, I think Rare will put DKC on every platform that will take it. DK Land 1-2 for GB, DKC 1&2 for GBC and DKC 1-3 for GBA? The DS version is inevitable.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2005, 07:02:57 PM
I don't think Rare has any say though. Nintendo's the publisher so they probably make the call.
Though they might want to port the game to the DS. I think the Rev-DS download link-up idea is the most logical way to do it but knowing Nintendo they might go for the annoying cash-grab and try to force everyone to buy the game twice. I hope they allow you to transfer NES and SNES games from the Rev to the DS. It would be such a killer feature.
Post by: cubist on November 29, 2005, 07:13:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It just wouldn't be a thread about Rare without some comments about how overrated they are and how they're lost the magic. The only reason so many people here say that is because Rare's with MS now. If Nintendo still had them the same people who rag on Rare would be tripping over themselves to defend them. Grabbed by the Ghoulies as a Nintendo produced title would be defended by the same people that try to convince everyone that Luigi's Mansion and Pokemon Colloseum were great games.
Anyhoo since Rare made GBA games I see no reason why they wouldn't continue to make DS games. It's probably a sweet deal for MS to leech of a competitor's product like this. MS benefits from both Nintendo's failings as a console maker and their success as a portable maker.
I'll have to agree. A lot of the same people that loved that rotating "R" right down to its last Nintendo turn hated the deal for MS to acquire RARE. Now, I'm hearing the same gamers bashing RARE. Truthfully, if a game like KAMEO ended up on the GCN like it was originally supposed to...[Sidenote: the original GCN box has a picture of both KAMEO and Donkey Kong Racing]...it would totally be untouchable by the PGC Forum firing squad.
Post by: wandering on November 29, 2005, 07:39:13 PM
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It just wouldn't be a thread about Rare without some comments about how overrated they are and how they're lost the magic. The only reason so many people here say that is because Rare's with MS now. If Nintendo still had them the same people who rag on Rare would be tripping over themselves to defend them. Grabbed by the Ghoulies as a Nintendo produced title would be defended by the same people that try to convince everyone that Luigi's Mansion and Pokemon Colloseum were great games.
Eh....they've been bad-mouthing Rare since Star Fox Adventures. I believe the feeling is that Rare hasn't been the same since a lot of key people left and went on to other companies. This does seem to be backed up by, for example, review scores. Though, it's hard for me to say what I thnk of them now personally, since, not being an xbox owner, I haven't played any of their post-mass-exodus games. Except for Star Fox Adventures. Which was horrible.
Oh, and for the record, while I haven't played Pokemon Colleseum or Grabbed by the Ghoulies, I have played Luigi's Mansion, and it's an incredible game. Easily the best Mario game on the cube, outside of maybe TTYD.
Post by: odifiend on November 29, 2005, 07:57:27 PM
Post by: Deguello on November 29, 2005, 08:22:37 PM
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Anyhoo since Rare made GBA games I see no reason why they wouldn't continue to make DS games. It's probably a sweet deal for MS to leech of a competitor's product like this. MS benefits from both Nintendo's failings as a console maker and their success as a portable maker.
No, NINTENDO gets a sweet deal. They are still getting more support from a developer that is owned 100% by a competitor, which means they don't even have to pay Rare for it anymore. MS got hosed on that deal. MS hasn't made up their ridiculously large purchase price of Rare while Nintendo gets to have Rare port their old things for the GBA, for FREE. They don't even have to pay for the building that houses Rare anymore or for any of the upkeep.
Essentially, MS has paid Nintendo to make a lot a money, while MS gets stuck with the bill.
Post by: Caterkiller on November 29, 2005, 08:42:06 PM
Post by: Arbok on November 29, 2005, 08:59:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It just wouldn't be a thread about Rare without some comments about how overrated they are and how they're lost the magic. The only reason so many people here say that is because Rare's with MS now. If Nintendo still had them the same people who rag on Rare would be tripping over themselves to defend them.
Please, I loved Rare more then anyone, their Donkey Kong Country was the title that finally convinced me to buy a SNES (I was NES and Genesis only up to that point, oh if only I knew...), but their magic has been long gone. Their games have been lackluster for a long time. Let's face it, Banjo-Tooie was dissapointing, to the say the least, and no one has brought up this shovelware that they produced right afterwards:
http://www.geekculture.dk/bedler/auto/1031090951mickeysspeedwayusa.jpg
Banjo-Tooie and Star Fox Adventures really proved what we had all been assuming: Rare can make beautiful games with great sound (I doubt anyone would argue against the SFA soundtrack), but they just can't scrape together fun gameplay for the life of them anymore.
Post by: wandering on November 29, 2005, 09:07:48 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 29, 2005, 09:15:54 PM
Post by: Arbok on November 29, 2005, 09:26:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
I argue against SFA's soundtrack. About 5 or less worthwhile tracks, while the rest were "background noise" or there wasn't any music where there should've been.
Well I love the Thorntail Hollow theme, in fact I would say it was one of the most pleasing themes I had ever heard in a video game, and since it was the main theme I cut it some slack. Hell, I would venture into the main area simply to hear that tune, even if I didn't have to go. I will admit, though, that it's the only track from the soundtrack that I still have on my computer...
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 29, 2005, 09:54:35 PM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It just wouldn't be a thread about Rare without some comments about how overrated they are and how they're lost the magic.
Well let's see, they made over ten games for the Nintendo 64 and about five for the Game Boy Color in the space of three years. DK64 and Mickey's Speedway, their last two N64 games, were bloody awful. Now, .. they've uh, made.. four console games and four portable games since then. Five years. Do you really think Star Fox Adventures and Grabbed by the Testicles match the likes of GoldenEye or Blast Corps? Seriously. IT'S MAGIC.
I predict a straight up port of Banjo-Kazooie and a Perfect Dark kart racer for DS. The BK port will take five years.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 29, 2005, 10:39:55 PM
Post by: NotSoStu on November 30, 2005, 01:17:50 AM
Post by: OptimusPrime on November 30, 2005, 02:21:19 AM
Now almost everyone who enjoyed working under that N-supervision left Rare and the company is cut off from that support. As a replacement they get MS, lord of bloatware and master of creating craphole software... and everyone is wondering why they lost their touch, jeezs come on.
Post by: Darkheart on November 30, 2005, 02:43:56 AM
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I for one still have hope for Banjo-Kazooie. It's my favorite platformer of all time, quite frankly.
[/sarcasm]Me too, I mean who cannot take joy of being a hillbilly backwoods bear with his cheerful sidekick, a bird whos permantly stuck within his napsack slowly sufficating. Of course this quest is totally worth it because you have to save your little sister bear (who actually seems like the only sane character) from an old woman with 2 teeth whos obsession is abducting little girls for their bodies.[/endsarcasm]
I am sorry everything about the Banjo series screamed rip off to me of mario 64. I wouldnt have minded if it was just the golden puzzle pieces, but they took the collectathon idea a bit far. The feathers, jinjos etc. was a bit demanding for me. At least with Diddy Kong Racing, to me I felt they at least added some things to the Mario Kart idea. Other than that the last Rare game prior to that I felt was nice was the DKC series which is now being whored all over the GBA.
I suppose something like Jet Force Jemni would be nice, and could work very nicely as well with the Ds such as a few ideas they could do with Floyd.
Post by: wandering on November 30, 2005, 04:24:40 AM
The game gets a lot of flak these days for being too much the collect-a-thon, but really, it's not. Remember that, at the time, the game was ridiculously well received....and I think it deserved it. I think people tend to lump it in with DK64 and the like - forgetting, perhaps, that it really wasn't that bad. Requiring you to collect musical notes was definitely a bad idea, but, unlike DK64, collecting only became a pain towards the very end of the game.
Post by: NotSoStu on November 30, 2005, 04:40:24 AM
Oh, and Jet Force Gemini on DS would be godly. Most underrated game ever.
PS: That's not how tags work. It'd be more like <sarcasm> </sarcasm>. Just FYI.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 30, 2005, 04:52:40 AM
Personally, I love Rare in spite of its weak points. Sabre Wulf is one of my top 3 for the GBA, and It's Mr. Pants isn't too far behind. I'd be glad to see some Rare titles on the DS.
Edit: Technically, Rare has produced 7 GBA games, including the DKC remakes, and that took 4 years (2001-2005). It took them 5 years to produce 10 games games for the N64 (1996-2001), and they've produced 5 games in 3 years for GameCube-Xbox 360 (2002-2005).
That's 14 games in 5 years for N64/GBC, and 12 games in 4 years for GBA/GCN/Xbox/360. And while I'm at it, don't forget that Mickey's Speedway USA was developed at Nintendo's request.
Post by: hudsonhawk on November 30, 2005, 06:06:57 AM
But Kameo is unbelievable, and PD0 is very very good. After playing those two games, it's clear that the Rare bashing is just sour grapes.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 30, 2005, 07:21:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It just wouldn't be a thread about Rare without some comments about how overrated they are and how they're lost the magic. The only reason so many people here say that is because Rare's with MS now. If Nintendo still had them the same people who rag on Rare would be tripping over themselves to defend them. Grabbed by the Ghoulies as a Nintendo produced title would be defended by the same people that try to convince everyone that Luigi's Mansion and Pokemon Colloseum were great games.
Anyhoo since Rare made GBA games I see no reason why they wouldn't continue to make DS games. It's probably a sweet deal for MS to leech of a competitor's product like this. MS benefits from both Nintendo's failings as a console maker and their success as a portable maker.
Ian, you do realize that if RARE was still with Nintendo today, that Free Radical would have never been made. And so, the team that we once knew and loved, would be still intact and making great games.
Give me BATTLETOADS and KILLER INSTINCT!
Actually, f**k that. Give me Diddy Kong Racing!
Post by: TMW on November 30, 2005, 07:43:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: hudsonhawk
I'll admit, after Starfox Adventures and the weak reception of the 2 Xbox titles (Conker was sort of "meh", and I never played Ghoulies), I was pretty skeptical of Rare as well.
But Kameo is unbelievable, and PD0 is very very good. After playing those two games, it's clear that the Rare bashing is just sour grapes.
So...wait. Are you saying that those two games make up for all of the sub-par games that Rare has made? I can no longer say SFA was lackluster because Rare finally made some games up to their old standards?
Post by: vudu on November 30, 2005, 08:31:11 AM
QuoteDid Nintendo request that the game be crap?
And while I'm at it, don't forget that Mickey's Speedway USA was developed at Nintendo's request.
Post by: hudsonhawk on November 30, 2005, 08:45:09 AM
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Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
Ian, you do realize that if RARE was still with Nintendo today, that Free Radical would have never been made. And so, the team that we once knew and loved, would be still intact and making great games.
One thing has nothing to do with the other.
The Free Radical team broke off of Rare between Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. Free Radical was formed in 1999; MS bought Rare in 2002.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 30, 2005, 08:49:44 AM
I knew something changed when I played Perfect Dark. GoldenEye is just so polished and so everlasting. PD is fun but nothing like GD...meh...how is this relevant anyway.
Post by: hudsonhawk on November 30, 2005, 08:55:38 AM
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Originally posted by: TMWQuote
Originally posted by: hudsonhawk
I'll admit, after Starfox Adventures and the weak reception of the 2 Xbox titles (Conker was sort of "meh", and I never played Ghoulies), I was pretty skeptical of Rare as well.
But Kameo is unbelievable, and PD0 is very very good. After playing those two games, it's clear that the Rare bashing is just sour grapes.
So...wait. Are you saying that those two games make up for all of the sub-par games that Rare has made? I can no longer say SFA was lackluster because Rare finally made some games up to their old standards?
Uh, no, I'm saying all this "Rare has gone so downhill!!!ONE!!" crap is unfounded. They had some pretty mediocre games last generation (SFA being the most egregiously blasé of them) there's no doubt about that.
I'm saying that Kameo and PD0 prove they haven't lost their touch. They're innovative, funny, and fun. They're easily the best launch titles (I mean that in the strictest sense - games available the day the console went on sale) since Mario64.
I'd be willing to guess that most of the people busting Rare here haven't played any of their games since the move to the dark side.
Post by: Deguello on November 30, 2005, 12:59:55 PM
That's pretty nutty.
Edit: I just noticed Ian is a little more clever than we all expect. He has made it totally impossible to have any opinion of Rare in this thread.
If anybody isn't particularly excited over Rare's DS efforts, they are bitter Nintendo fanboys still wounded over Rare's buyout by MS.
If anybody is excited, they are hypocritical fanboys who are only excited because Rare is supporting a Nintendo system.
A veritable Catch-64, if you catch my meaning. Pretty sneaky. But then he says something dumb like "MS profits from DKC ports" Which is just nutters.
Post by: Mario on November 30, 2005, 09:37:25 PM
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It just wouldn't be a thread about Rare without some comments about how overrated they are and how they're lost the magic. The only reason so many people here say that is because Rare's with MS now.
HAHAHHAHAA
You seriously haven't noticed any OTHER difference with Rare?
Ian has to be a joke character, made by a PGC staff member to increase forum traffic.
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Grabbed by the Ghoulies as a Nintendo produced title would be defended by the same people that try to convince everyone that Luigi's Mansion and Pokemon Colloseum were great games.
YAY let's generalise everything! Logic? GET OUTTA HERE I'M A BIG ANGRY BALL OF GASLuigi's Mansion ROCKS and Pokemon Colloseum sucks
Quote
I'm saying that Kameo and PD0 prove they haven't lost their touch. They're innovative, funny, and fun. They're easily the best launch titles (I mean that in the strictest sense - games available the day the console went on sale) since Mario64.
Since Super Mario 64 DS, maybe.
- SFA is one of my favourite VG soundtracks, and while I still love the game, I was more excited about it while watching the trailers than actually playing it.
- If Rare releases a DS title I hope it's a straight port of Perfect Dark. I can't really think of anything else that i'd even care about, but hey maybe they'll surprise me! Oh wait, a new SabreWulf would be pretty neat, but Rare dont make new games.
Post by: Nephilim on December 01, 2005, 01:18:07 AM
then I dont care
Post by: joeposh on December 01, 2005, 05:54:01 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 01, 2005, 06:21:13 AM
Well I did think Star Fox Adventures was absolute crap. I'm just saying that a lot of the negitivity is the result of Rare going to MS. I don't think their Xbox games were anything fancy but they did make some pretty good GBA games and so far their X360 games have received good reviews. It's mostly the attitude that it's good that Nintendo dumped them or that they never were that great that I feel is largely caused by sour grapes. I think Rare was in a slump and have started to come out of it. I think that's what most Nintendo fans would have felt if Rare was still with Nintendo.
Really they released, what, two bad games in a row? And while people talk about how "bad" Rare was towards the end of their Nintendo run they focus on DK64 and SFA and completely forget that their second last Nintendo game was Conker and it ruled and before that Perfect Dark was absolutely awesome.
Rare's slow output on the Xbox was likely a result of the switchover. Kameo for example was originally on Cube hardware. Had they stuck with Nintendo they might have released more games. Plus MS cut the Xbox life short. Maybe Kameo or PD0 could have been released on the Xbox last year but MS decided they should wait for the 360.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 01, 2005, 07:20:32 AM
And the fact that Conker was in dev. longer than PD was, originally planned to come out early in the N64's life; that's a lot of time for one dev. team to "waste". I like Conker, it had a great variety of scenarios, but for me it's difficult to revisit. I appreciate what it offered for its time. But the controls, ugh.
JFG i liked until I defeated Mizar the first time... then it became a search quest in a game world that wasn't easy to navigate. Ugh.
DK64, SFA, we know how they turned out.
I'm not a DKC nor KI fan.
Only PD and DKR stand the test of time for me.
Post by: Kairon on December 01, 2005, 11:10:17 AM
My younger bro was a JFG fan but I couldn't be bothered to touch it apart from doing some floyd co-op, the game felt like a real big timesink. I didn't like Bajo Kazooie at all, and DK64 illustrated to me that Rare didn't learn anything from the collectorama that BT was. I always viewed KI as a one-hit wonder, the only reason I remember Blast Corps at all is for the jewish harp in its music...
I'll admit I enjoyed PD, but truly only for co-op play. In fact, I enjoyed FF:CC for the co-op play I got with my younger brother, so take that for what it is. Either way, not nearly enough to make me miss. But I am reminiscent of Joanna Dark's less sensationalistic image in-game at the time that satisfyed my inner feminist. (the Ads, on the other hand...lol)
So there you have it. I'm a Nintendo Fanboy and the only Rare game I ever liked was Conker. Everything else to me seemed materially flawed. I think even Miyamoto considers them this way, as I remember it being reported that JFG convinced Miyamoto that third-person shooters just can't be made to work.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on December 01, 2005, 11:12:49 PM
Yeah, I slump where 50+ people left the team. Personally, though I'd love to beleive otherwise, I think there's no way around the fact that Rare is a sad shell of it's former self. Like Nintendorks.
Though I do agree with you that people who contend that Rare was always mediocre/overrated are full of it. Or else they have legitimite opinions worth considering, which ever. They're wrong regardless.
Off topic, I was reading up on Rare on wikipedia, and I read mention that Microsoft offered Nintendo Rare's IP (Banjo Kazooie, etc) for 20 mil. Apparently, there's still no word on whether Nintendo has decided to accept. That seems like a steal....esp considering how much Microsoft paid for Rare. If it were to happen, Microsoft would be left with Rare-in-name-only, while Nintendo would be free to make huge amounts of cash on Rare's various popular franchises. Anybody else hear about this?
Post by: RABicle on December 01, 2005, 11:13:24 PM
More like Rare have only ever made 4 worthwhile games.
EDIT: For those of you playing at home, sitting around scratching your heads "wow four seems like a very large number, Rare havent made that many good games" I'm being generous and calling Diddy Kong Racing good. The other three are obvious.
Post by: Shecky on December 02, 2005, 03:18:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Off topic, I was reading up on Rare on wikipedia, and I read mention that Microsoft offered Nintendo Rare's IP (Banjo Kazooie, etc) for 20 mil. Apparently, there's still no word on whether Nintendo has decided to accept. That seems like a steal....esp considering how much Microsoft paid for Rare. If it were to happen, Microsoft would be left with Rare-in-name-only, while Nintendo would be free to make huge amounts of cash on Rare's various popular franchises. Anybody else hear about this?
FWIW, I think you read that wrong...
"In February of 2004, gaming news sites reported that negotiations were ongoing between Nintendo and Microsoft for Microsoft to acquire Rare's characters and trademarks from Nintendo. According to various articles, Microsoft has reportedly offered Nintendo approximately $20.2 million for the trademarks and characters. As of 2005, it is unknown if Nintendo accepted Microsoft's $20.2 million offer."
The statement says that Microsoft offered the 20 million in exchange for the IP *from* Nintendo. You had it the other way around. Second, my understanding is that the only IP that Nintendo had left after the deal was the ones they rightly owned, which are DK and Starfox. Rare never owned that IP. So either:
- This never actually happened (likely)
- Was a "joke" offer by Microsoft for rights to DK and Starfox
- Some other IP that I'm missing that Nintendo retained
- Wasn't actually for the IP, but perhaps something else
... just FYI...
Post by: hudsonhawk on December 02, 2005, 05:03:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RABicle
Donkey Kong Coutnry 1, 2 and 3, Killer Instinct, Ken Griffy Jr's Slugfest. THIS IS FIVE GAMES IN A ROW!
More like Rare have only ever made 4 worthwhile games.
5?? Give me a break.
I'll start at 1986, since that's when I started playing console games.
R.C. PRO-AM
WIZARDS & WARRIORS
CALIFORNIA GAMES
MARBLE MADNESS
COBRA TRIANGLE
SILENT SERVICE
SUPER OFF ROAD
PIN BOT
BATTLETOADS
SUPER R.C. PRO-AM
KILLER INSTINCT
DONKEY KONG COUNTRY
BLAST CORPS
GOLDENEYE
DIDDY KONG RACING
BANJO-KAZOOIE
PERFECT DARK
CONKER’S BAD FUR DAY
KAMEO: ELEMENTS OF POWER
PERFECT DARK ZERO
A case can be made for every game on that list. There are other games on their resume that other people revere that I really don't care for, but whatever. You can nitpick games off that list and whine that you didn't like them, but you'd be missing the point. Most of these games are either loved, liked, or were highly regarded in their time.
The point is - how many small-house developers are there that have been around since the 8-bit era? That are still around and making good games? At a rate of 1 per year, for a sustained 20 years?
Post by: Kairon on December 02, 2005, 05:51:55 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on December 02, 2005, 06:21:15 AM
Quote
"More than half our talent" leaving would only be accurate if our entire talent at the time was in the single figures.
Hmm, who should I believe? People that are bitter that Rare left (or just dislike Rare in general) and know nothing about the company, or Rare itself? What a hard choice.
Edit: Having sent out the gratuitous complaints, I want to add that I don't mind people who never liked Rare as much as people that used to love the company and think it's been going downhill. I just don't think that's very true. The only major problem it has had is huge game delays due in part to switching consoles twice in three years.
Post by: Deguello on December 02, 2005, 06:49:03 AM
I'm not sure this argument holds water anymore simply for the fact their GBA games faced numerous delays too. Unless you wanna say that adding Banjo to Diddy Kong Pilot took them 3 years, that it took them 4 years to take out DK from Donkey Kong Coconut Crackers and add in It's Mr. Pants. And according to Rare itself, they claimed they were finished with SabreWulf in Early 2002. And one year after the sale they were able to squirt out a game that was previously unannounced. Then it took them 2 years to port an N64 game, and then 4 years to port a GC game. So no, the whole "They were unfamiliar with the hardware" idea doesn't float. They obviously knew enough about it to make a game one year after the acquisition. How long is a company allowed to get its act together before people start questioning their quality?
Have you even considered this possibility? The fanboys are right! Rare has declined in quality! Nintendo was right, too! And pretty clever, as they even found a way to pump money out of the corpse while MS screws it and gives Nintendo money for the privilege!
Also consider this, why is it the first thing you thought at the idea of Rare DS games, is ports of their N64 games? What, do you not have any confidence that they can create something new?
Quote
"More than half our talent" leaving would only be accurate if our entire talent at the time was in the single figures.
Hey, they said it, not me. You know, when the nerds leave the classroom, the jocks tend to do worse on tests.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 02, 2005, 10:11:24 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 02, 2005, 10:23:09 AM
I wouldn't mind Perfect Dark, but really Goldeneye is the game that would excite me the most.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 02, 2005, 10:26:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Don't ignore Mickey's Speedway. Do not ignore Mickey's Speedway.
And the fact that Conker was in dev. longer than PD was, originally planned to come out early in the N64's life; that's a lot of time for one dev. team to "waste". I like Conker, it had a great variety of scenarios, but for me it's difficult to revisit. I appreciate what it offered for its time. But the controls, ugh.
JFG i liked until I defeated Mizar the first time... then it became a search quest in a game world that wasn't easy to navigate. Ugh.
DK64, SFA, we know how they turned out.
I'm not a DKC nor KI fan.
Only PD and DKR stand the test of time for me.
Conker probably woudl have been a better game (to me at least) if they hadn't made it a uber mature themed game. I mean look at the GBC Conker game, where cute game little children could play, and then look at N64 Conker game. It's like Mario on GBA being rated E for everyone and the new REV version rated AO. It just didn't make sense.
Post by: JonLeung on December 02, 2005, 12:17:08 PM
I liked Donkey Kong 64 and Star Fox Adventures. I wouldn't say I UBER-LOVED them, and the Banjo-Kazooie games were better, but I still really enjoyed these two at the time and I don't see why I should dislike them.
And I personally think Conker's Bad Fur Day is overrated. VERY overrated. Compared to Rareware's other games, this was a little short, too linear, and not anywhere near as much of a collect-a-thon. Yes, I like to collect things. (And yes, I know the Freudian implication of obsessing over collecting.) Since Conker was one of the last games they made in the N64 days, if not THE last, I had expectations after all their other great N64 platform/adventure games. I didn't mind the obscenities and etc., but to me it looks like they were using the shock value to hide the fact that the game didn't actually have as much substance, even after all those delays. (To be fair, though, I don't know much about the Xbox re-release, if they added anything I would care about or whatever, but the N64 game has more praise than it deserves.)
I don't think it's unfair to say that Rareware isn't as good as it was considering I've never heard of any "Grabbed By The Ghoulies" fans.
Post by: wandering on December 02, 2005, 10:00:37 PM
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Yes, I like to collect things. (And yes, I know the Freudian implication of obsessing over collecting.)
Most videogame fans seem to. The thing is, though, wheras Nintendo recognises this and always puts lots of things to collect in their videogames, Rare seems to think it's a good idea to REQUIRE you to collect lots of stuff (yeah, you were required to collect things in Mario 64 and OOT, but the things you collected were generally markers that you aquired for solving specific tasks. Specific task that didn't involve running around and picking up hundreds of small objects. Unless you wanted to run around and pick up hundreds of small objects. In which case you could.)
With that said, I did/do really enjoy Donkey Kong 64 and find it to be fairly underrated.
Star Fox, on the other hand, I stopped playing soon after aquiring Trixie. Who thought it was a good idea to force you to constantly chase objects that RUN AWAY FROM YOU?
Post by: KDR_11k on December 02, 2005, 10:46:23 PM
Post by: MrMojoRising on December 02, 2005, 10:56:50 PM
Post by: wandering on December 02, 2005, 11:04:18 PM
Right. In Donkey Kong, you had to collect a much larger amount of golden bananas (the equivalant of stars in mario) in order for new areas to open up....but before you could use the golden bananas, you had to give a key to a giant dinosaur to open up an area that had a door which required you to use your golden bananas...and to get a key you needed to defeat a level boss....and in order to get to a level boss you needed to collect hundreds of bananas in that level....and there were 5 different colors of banana in each level, one type for each character....and characters could not collect bananas that were for other characters. Additionally, you needed to collect blueprints (which, if I remember correctly, came in character-specific flavors, like the bananas) for the endgame, banana medals, ammo, and 2 tokens that were won by playing old games (not so bad).
Also, the game required you to constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY) switch between the 5 characters at special character-switch places, because the game is filled with character specific challenges that are character specific for no good reason (for example, there are switches that you have to hit with one of the 5 character's specific guns, even though the guns are all pretty much the same functionally).
Even so, the game has an awesome atmosphere and oodles of fun challenges/gameplay.
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The statement says that Microsoft offered the 20 million in exchange for the IP *from* Nintendo. You had it the other way around.
Oh yeah, whoops. Thanks for catching that. Guess we'll never see Banjo and Kazooie in a Super Smash Bros game.....
Post by: WackerJr on December 19, 2005, 11:19:02 AM
I personally would quite like Banjo-Kazooie with a decent control scheme and finally answering the questions about "Stop N Swap" (see, it still hasn't been forgotten!). More games in the JFG saga would be good, but I'd be especially keen on seeing what Rare could come up with with the new hardware! As long as they also keep their sense of humour in it! I think being British like them I find it funnier!
Post by: DAaaMan64 on December 22, 2005, 09:23:22 PM
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3. Jet Force Gemini
Hell yes on that. That would be the best ever, I love that game.
Anyways, in regards to Star Fox Adventures, that game was ok. But it was really irritating for no reason some times. But it also remindes me of how heartless, lifeless, and not charming, Rare games can be.
Post by: animecyberrat on December 23, 2005, 06:18:38 AM
The levels were very well desgined, it wsa nice balance of story, action and solving puzzles, the music was absolutley fantastic, every single PS2 fanboy friend I have says its their favorite GC game as well bseides the SSBM and Mario Party games.
I felt relly drawninto this game and thought it was cool that Nintendo/Rare put so much effort into making a great Star Fox game that combined sapce battles ,which I didnt like too much, and Zelda style game play, which I love. The fact it introduced some new characters to teh series helped a lot and teh boss fights were fantastic, this game was exactly what the GC needed and was THE game my friends used to get me to switch up from N64 to GC when I did cuz I was still happy playing those N64 games that I hadnt beaten yet.
I admint I was HUGLEY DISSAPOINTED by the ending, but after teh last boss fight I was ok with it because I realized it was still a Star Fox game and SFA helped me get into that series, I passed on SF SNES and 64 because they didnt seam interesting to me, but after getting to know teh characters a little and finding out the space battels arent as bad as I rememebred them I gave the others a try and have sop far been fairly satisfied.
It irritates me to no end peopel call it utter crap with nothign to back it up. TELL ME WHY you hated it and I will ask you to go back and replay it and remeber who F&**ing fun it really was.
Peopel are allowed to have different tastes but if a game IS good why bash it whats the deal? what was so bad about it? If its cuz liek I didnt liek Sunshien cuz it didnt 'feel' like mario kinda thing I thought tehre were tons of space fighst that felt just like the regular SF, but I may be wrong. I also liked Assault but it seams to geta lot of flack too.
EDIT: Sorry for the rant but really I am curious what peopel didnt liek about it and ask if tehy tried going back. I have had games I didnt liek at first but after going back liked them alot more, Original SNES Staf Fox is oneof them FYI.
Post by: couchmonkey on December 23, 2005, 07:22:20 AM
Also, hardcore Starfox fans were disappointed that it wasn't a great shooter, but I think that's a stupid complaint. If the game is good, who cares if it borrows characters from another genre?
Post by: odifiend on December 23, 2005, 08:10:12 AM
The problem with SFA's collection is that except for those tokens, you needed to collect everything to move on - I think it is next to impossible to not get 100%... Technically the game is great, but i didn't find the game enjoyable, if that makes sense.
Post by: animecyberrat on December 23, 2005, 05:19:13 PM
But I am confused about teh linear comments, um it may sound stupid to some of ya all but I am not sure what that means or how it relates to a video game anyways. Sorry for that being off topic but its a nother thing I read a lot and dont get.
Post by: Darkheart on December 23, 2005, 05:54:45 PM
Linear Game Examples
FFX
Xenosaga
Most typical old school RPG's
Non Linear / open ended games
Kingdom Hearts
Animal Crossing
The Sims
GTA
Post by: odifiend on December 24, 2005, 04:46:32 AM
I guess Fox is a dog and must be kept on a leash...
Post by: animecyberrat on December 24, 2005, 04:09:48 PM
Post by: Segnit BGS on December 25, 2005, 03:50:01 PM
I’ve played too many countless games (Over 150++) in the past 8 years on a multitude of consoles; Though I’ve never made a definitive list (though I should someday), I’d probably rank at least one Rare game in my Top 5 favorite games of all time list! (With Zelda: OoT being excluded from that list altogether for being a pioneering achievement) That definitely says a lot about my opinion on Rare! They used to be a heavyweight no doubt!
I’ve played all of Rare’s recent games. And I think that there is more then enough evidence to indicate that their quality and more particularly their output has been dwindling. They don’t “suck” but there is certainly an evidence of underachievement. Only a very tiny minority would flat out deny it.
Although I hate spitting on people’s fond memories of their games, I also hate being spitted on by the very companies I love and support.
For example: I hate when people are split into two camps about an ‘X’ game - love it or hate it. The ideal situation would be that the ‘X’ game is so truly amazing that everyone enjoys playing the game before going online and chatting about it. Thus the perfect game. But in reality such unanimity rarely happens.
Let’s take Star Fox Adventures as our prime example.
Was I excited about it before release? If you count as hunting down for every last picture and info on it as excited then, yeah, I was excited. Did I like the game? No. Did I have a bias against it? If I did, then why was I sooo excited about it before release? Was I faking the hype for myself? When jerking-off privately, do I prematurely tell my self “That orgasm was the best” even though I still haven’t climaxed? Do I fake my enjoyment to myself? Does anyone?
Do I like the fact that I bloody hate SFA? Do I like to tell someone who bought it and enjoyed it, that I hate the game? No and No. I’m firmly against jeopardizing happy memories of people. In fact, I hate the fact that some people can enjoy SFA where as I’m stuck in the “Hate camp” unintentionally. Rare caused the split in fans. I blame them for the fact that the game was wrongly hyped “You can go anywhere you see” (NGC Magazine) and wrongly advertised to many fans who were avidly waiting for years for the games release.
Going one step further, let’s look at the timescale for the game. It was in the making for approximately 4 and a half years, give or take 6 months. With the notion that time is money; should people look and base their opinions on the game solely on its own merits or should opinion be of a more relative nature? Now this is the topic it all boils down too.
To this day even top reviewers are mostly undecided whether to rate games on a more relative scale or “base your opinion of the game On its Own Merits (OiOM)” type of scale. Almost all reviews have elements of both types of marking system. But the type which is used most prominently is the “On its own merits” (Henceforth refereed to as OiOM) scale. I believe that a likely explanation for this is that OiOM the more lenient of the two. And since fans can be easily aggravated over bad scores of their games, most publications simply remain faithful to their own optimistic, let’s call it… ideals.
If however, the games industry had its own living breathing God and all he did was love and foster his own industry for its ultimate growth. What system would he employ? Many different people would answer this question relatively compared with where they are in their gaming life.
An entry level gamer would probably (not definitely) want games to be rated based on OiOM. Since this newbie gamer hasn’t played other games to compare, a criticism like “been there done that” wouldn’t necessarily apply to him/her. Thus it’s not a stretch to say that OiOM goes well with less experienced gamers. Conversely, it wouldn’t be a stretch to imagine a Relative system doing well with more experienced gamers.
Think about it this way, if game developers mutually agreed to stop making advancements in game design, then everyone would have ended up playing all types of games at some point or another in their lives. Everyone would have “been there done that”.
The conclusion that I want to get to is the following:
Did I enjoy SFA? Sadly I did not. Did I enjoy DK64? No, I honestly didn’t. I've been there and done that with both.
Did Rare return to form with Kameo and PDZ? According to me, ABSOLUTELY NOT. But will Rare ever make a game to justify their heritage? They most certainly will. Although I’ve been harsh on Rare for the last, I don’t know… 6 years; nothing is stopping me from loving their games again in the future except for Rare themselves.
Let’s not kid ourselves though; many people have lost confidence in Rare no matter who their owner is… whether it is Nintendo or Microsoft.
Post by: Segnit BGS on December 27, 2005, 12:45:01 PM
Post by: Rellik on December 27, 2005, 12:54:58 PM
Post by: Segnit BGS on December 27, 2005, 12:58:50 PM
