Post by: iMoron on November 05, 2005, 07:31:02 PM
Simply put. Returning games from the past on the Revolution...
I mean... How many of you remember Stunt Race FX! Great game with an unusual presentation and great game play! Atleast I liked it... A nostagia thing I guess... A game that I would love to see updated, expanded! And I did like the waky cars... So I want those waky cars and whatever else they could come up with in that game!
Now.. DON'T confuse this with the other thread about which "games you want nintendo to make avaible on their Virtual Console" because thats not what this thread is about!
What's to be discuse in this thread is about games that should be brougth back on the Revolution in some shape or form.. Those that have been forgoten. And I say "shape or form" because we all know how Metroid was presented in the GameCube and Mario on the N64, totaly diferent from how they were before (2D scroller), yet recognizesable... Like that Detective game that rumor has it, is been remade for our dream console, or the Kid Icarus remade that some sad thread mention in the title and no where else in the thread!
So... this are the games I would like to see been remade/renew/continued for the Revolution.
Stunt Race FX
Cibernator <from Konamy
Miniac Masion - Thoug I only played it a little of it. The controler alone is asking for it!
StarTropics - I only played the second one.
Jackal < from Ultra or Konamy part 2...
Doble Dragon - Classic remade!
Ice Climbers...
Altered Beast!!! in 3D!!! and on a Nintendo console!!!
FlashBack
Exitebike
LOLO ... yes, lets get him in some nasty place again...
Bonk's Adventures
Faxanadu... ok maybe not...
The Guardian Legend ... Guntastic!
- Soltice ...
err... I should come up with more but I am having trouble remebering, I will be updating my list later... but anyway... you get the idea.
What games would you like to see, even if they were originaly in other consoles! Even if this just becomes a dream factory it should be a fun exersice. All your base are belong to me!
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2005, 07:33:15 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 05, 2005, 07:39:46 PM
And...they already brought back Gauntlet...sorta...
Old games I'd love to see revisited?
LoLo
Kickle Cubicle
Jackal (A Jeep Based Vertical-scrolling Shooter)
Xenophobe
Dynowarz
Illusion of Gaia
EarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthbound
EarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthbound
EarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthboundEarthbound
Battle City!
River City Ransom
.
.
.
I'm sure there's more, but just gimme time to jog my memory...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: attackslug on November 05, 2005, 08:06:33 PM
Personally, I think a dectective -themed game would be awesome. Perhaps combining elements of a graphic adventure with some sort of FPS aspect would be cool, a sort of Deus Ex type hybrid.
Leisure Suit Larry Revolution could also have some very "interesting" possibilities...
Post by: ShyGuy on November 05, 2005, 08:12:34 PM
Rad Racer
Punch Out
Duck Hunt
Strider
Sim City
Post by: Nephilim on November 05, 2005, 11:46:29 PM
The people sega licenced it to, ruined the GBA and PS2 version
I want new lufia, the GB and GBA series were poor and no way near the standard of the Snes versions and only 1 was directly linked to the snes games (cancelled the psx version to make a gb version was the worst idea a company has ever had)
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 06, 2005, 05:20:11 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 06, 2005, 05:37:07 AM
Post by: Darkheart on November 06, 2005, 06:12:36 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 06, 2005, 06:24:56 AM
What can I say? I grew up with a C64. Hm, a few PC games come to mind as well:
One Must Fall 2097 (Battlegrounds sucked), Commander Keen, Jazz Jackrabbit, Tyrian, Raptor,...
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 06, 2005, 11:44:09 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 06, 2005, 12:30:41 PM
Look at how this generation is handling remaking classics. Throwing the game into 3D enviroments with crappy control, and new art directions that totally betray the original feel.
The best example of this is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Nobody wanted what we got. They should have focused on making a simple more advanced classic beat'em up from yester-year...but instead. We got crap.
Also remember what Sega did making classic games remade with 3D graphics. HORRIBLE.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 06, 2005, 12:41:56 PM
Hear this developers! You're no longer allowed to even try!
Post by: IceCold on November 06, 2005, 01:51:24 PM
I would say that Nintendo is the only developer that could take a side-scrolling franchise platformer like Mario and transform it into Mario 64. The games that followed were only based on the template that M64 set.
So yeah, I'm with Spak in the sense that I wouldn't want many of these to be remade. However, I wouldn't mind it if Nintendo was behind one of them, or if another developer can retain what made the 2D game so special in the new game.
Post by: iMoron on November 06, 2005, 03:18:02 PM
Quote
The best example of this is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Nobody wanted what we got. They should have focused on making a simple more advanced classic beat'em up from yester-year...but instead. We got crap.
Err... come on... thats not as true... I mean, yes the new games have been crap this time around... at least Konamy has tried to fix it in the new one... BUT... It is not like if it were the same old Ninja Turtles... it is base on the NEW series which is in itself, far off from the old series, not bad... but I don't get why they had to make so many changes to the story... They could have called it "teneage mutant karate hamsters" for all I care...
With that said... If Konamy were to remade the original Teanege Mutant Ninja Turtles series, in 3D (like the remade that SquareEnix is doing of Final Fantasy 3? for the Nintendo DS, a true remade of a game which is basically the same old game with new graphics), I would be all over them in no time and bet you would to... Most of us that played the old series are not happy with the new ones... on games or cartunes... And I could care less about the new instalments since the cartunes themselves have gone a bit off from what most of us remembered...
Quote
Altered Beast has been remade in 3D
Ummm... well yea... I haven't even care to check it out... But I take your word that it "BLOWS". ... Now, do you think that they could have made it better! With time they could have... but then again, I should have not mention that game since it is not a game that has been forgotten... Actually that game has been "murdured"... My bad for mentioning it!
But... lets point out something about the games. There's no need for them to be made 3D... only if it mantains the originals feeling or stile of play... and who's to say that a game that looks 3D is 3D... I mean it can still have 2D gameplay... in which case it should be easier to stay thrue to the original... If you follow my drift...
How cool it where to see a new Soltice game, following the story in some way... and yes, I know there was one for the SNES, but I haven't look in to it, yet... thoug I have read and seen pictures of it. Or maybe just remade it like what Capcom did with Resident Evil 1. Thoug I would like to see a continuation of the game rather than a remade... or both!
Thoug... it is true that not every developer is capable of doing this kind of things... and even the ones capable of doing it, sometime only make middle chapters and not real continuations.... It is not a bad thing... but can get anoying if they are not cautionus about it. I mean, heck, try and put Zelda in a continious line story wise, and you will understand what I mean... it can be confusive... but since it is done with care and the games are well done, it is OK...
The games that I would like to see are games which we would have like to see secuels of.
I want to see a secuel to Cybernator, Stunt Race FX... Soltice! But I want to see them with their old concept of what made them fun and enjoyable... I don't want to see just their names splater over some wierd game that lacks all that the name meant to the original game!
Post by: The Omen on November 06, 2005, 04:17:50 PM
Shadowrun
Double Dragon perfect arcade port
Ring King
RC Pro Am
Wild Gunmen
Post by: Terranigma Freak on November 07, 2005, 04:40:17 AM
Quote
it is base on the NEW series which is in itself, far off from the old series, not bad... but I don't get why they had to make so many changes to the story... They could have called it "teneage mutant karate hamsters" for all I care...
Excuse me, but what you just said was stupid, offensive, and totally ignorant. The current TMNT is based on the REAL TMNT stories. You know, the one from the darker edgier comics that first launched the TMNT? The old cartoon that we enjoyed as kids was just that, made for kids cartoon. The current one is closer to the comics and much much darker. This show shocked all TMNT fans the day when Leonardo decapitated the Shredder just like in the comics. That was in a Saturday morning cartoon.
Anyway, Konami no longer has any true talent left. They can some times pull off a good CV game, but that's really about the only thing they did right. Konami's nothing without Treasure.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 07, 2005, 06:54:23 AM
Post by: vudu on November 07, 2005, 09:27:44 AM
Post by: iMoron on November 07, 2005, 11:11:19 AM
Quote
Terranigma Freak wroute:
Excuse me, but what you just said was stupid, offensive, and totally ignorant. The current TMNT is based on the REAL TMNT stories. You know, the one from the darker edgier comics that first launched the TMNT? The old cartoon that we enjoyed as kids was just that, made for kids cartoon. The current one is closer to the comics and much much darker. This show shocked all TMNT fans the day when Leonardo decapitated the Shredder just like in the comics. That was in a Saturday morning cartoon.
OK... I admit I have not been a dihard comic fan... so I reallly did not know that... So yes I ignore that fact... So it was that kids cartune that deserveves the title of "teneage mutant karate hamsters" ... I am glad that they are been true to the comic this time around...
I must say... that if I ofended you, I am sorry! That was not meant to be offensive, maybe stuped but not offensive. Your reply is a bit offensive... But well taken since I guess you are right...
Now... Go and Tatoo "stupid, offensive, and totally ignorant" on your forehead, you deserve it... *joke*
ha ha... no offence...Now... back on topic...
Any of your OLD forgotten favorites you feel should return on the Revolution?
Post by: ThePerm on November 07, 2005, 03:55:40 PM
Post by: MrMojoRising on November 08, 2005, 12:50:42 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 08, 2005, 04:10:01 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 08, 2005, 04:49:14 AM
Post by: iMoron on November 08, 2005, 10:53:17 AM
True not all games can go in to 3D gameplay... But they could go in to 3D graphics, with 2D gameplay...
And... There's no real need to go 3D at all... they just need to make the games for the Revolution... 2D or 3D... We won't care as long as they are good! And actually, 2D games can be fun... Give me the games even if they are text based!
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 08, 2005, 11:34:29 AM
(obviously it wouldn't be sidescrolling anymore)
Which to me doesn't sound like 2D gameplay...
Post by: iMoron on November 08, 2005, 02:13:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I was replying to this part:
(obviously it wouldn't be sidescrolling anymore)
Which to me doesn't sound like 2D gameplay...
True...
It would be nice if there were more 3D looking sidescrolers... There aren't many! Making a sidescroller in to a a full 3D shooter would not make justice to the original sidescroler game unless thay find a way to stay true to the original... but that is hard thing to acomplish a 2D to 3D jump... even more so with 2D scrolling shooters.
Thoug... you understand what I meant... I was just trying to point that out to see if it would add posters to the thread.
.....................................................................................
Now... Any other games!?
Post by: MrMojoRising on November 09, 2005, 01:32:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I don't think that's possible to do well, you need a lot of precision to play these games which is completely lost in 3d. Neo Contra sucked from what I heard.
If you asked me five years ago I would say that it's impossible to turn Metroid into 3D well...
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2005, 06:41:59 AM
The only thing developers gain from making a 2D game with 3D graphics, is the ability to use some graphics tricks for special effects, and a cheaper/easier animation and character design process. I guess that can go towards easier level design as well...but really good programs can do that with 2D level design its just harder.
What do you lose? All the character and personality and charm of hand drawn sprites.
Best Example:
New Super Mario Brothers Vs. Super Princess Peach.
Based on graphics alone which would you rather play?
Based on graphics alone which has more detailed levels and characters?
Based on graphics alone which has more personality?
I think most will agree that Super Princess Peach definately wins the contest, whether you want to play the game more than the new Super Mario is a matter of opinion.
But you will say graphics have no barring on gameplay, so you shouldn't judge.
Actually graphics do have barring on game play. Take Super Mario Brothers, and then the Super Mario Brothers from SUPER Mario Allstars. Which would you rather play? Sure some would argue the classic, but if you weren't judging the game on classic status you would choose the newer one.
Also imagine Super Mario World 2 with 3D polygon graphics and the whole 2D stetch look gone. You won't get the same feel and satisfaction of the butt pound kicking up dust, or the combating the strange creatures in the make up. The graphics were the building blocks for the entire feel of the game.
2D games should remain sprite based when at all possible. I know this is becoming less and less likely, but until 3D graphics can capture the depth of character design sprites can I don't want to lose my 2D sprite based games.
Post by: Artimus on November 09, 2005, 06:54:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
True 2D games COULD be made using 3D graphics...blah blah cutting post to take up less space blah blah...I don't want to lose my 2D sprite based games.
But you've left out one factor here: the 3D characters in NSMB perform 3D moves. You can't do a backflip in Princess Peach. You cannot do a ton of the stuff you can in NSMB. The entire reason 3D is used is that now a ton of the 3D Mario moves are in 3D. Peach looks fun, I enjoy the graphics, but judging on looks and gameplay I'd much rather play NSMB as it is an original gameplay platformer, with some pretty wicked graphics.
You're also looking at screenshots. 3D never looks as good as 2D in still images (I don't mean the next gen, but like DS vs. SNES). Why? Because sprites are just animated still images, naturally they'll look better in still form. In motion the complexity of animation is far more impressive on NSMB than Princess Peach.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 09, 2005, 07:06:11 AM
But you've left out one factor here: the 3D characters in NSMB perform 3D moves. You can't do a backflip in Princess Peach.
You can do a backflip in Donkey Kong and Mario vs. Donkey Kong. Donkey Kong is plain old sprites, MvDK is sprites from 3d models.
Post by: Pale on November 09, 2005, 07:06:11 AM
Quote
Actually graphics do have barring on game play. Take Super Mario Brothers, and then the Super Mario Brothers from SUPER Mario Allstars. Which would you rather play? Sure some would argue the classic, but if you weren't judging the game on classic status you would choose the newer one.
Anything matters when you are using a comparison between it and not it.
As for 3D graphics not having as much personality as 2D graphics...
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2005, 07:09:22 AM
Now if you are saying that NSMB allows you to jump into the background or play on an 2.5D plane...then it would be harder to impliment with sprites, but NOT IMPOSSIBLE. Remember Fatal Fury was a 2D sprite based game that played on 2 2D planes to supposedly add depth to the game...it really didn't do much.
I am not just judging by stills either. I have seen movies from both games running, and Super Princess Peach looks superior. There may not be as much animation going on in the background as NSMB, but the art direction goes along way and so does the animation that IS in Princess Peach that is really amazing.
Post by: Artimus on November 09, 2005, 07:13:07 AM
You just don't like 3D is all. That doesn't de facto make 2D better.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2005, 07:16:18 AM
Your screenshot you provided is nice. However, personality and character I do not really feel. Great detail and I know the animation from the dodge move is pretty cool and funny.
But I don't actually feel the move when I dodge in Smash Brothers. I don't know if it makes sense...but when I play Super Mario World, I feel the timing and the balance of the cape when I play...and the crash and shake of the ground when I dive bomb into it.
Better examples you could have shown would be:
Mario 64 (him crashing into wall with stars)
Viewtiful Joe (though that game is mostly cool gameplay and I would argue personality in the game is lacking.)
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 09, 2005, 07:29:39 AM
Back on topic, I don't see how "character" has anything to do with 2D and 3D...They both are able to do such within the power of the developer...It all just boils down to artistic direction, where it's much more prominent in 2D games...
Post by: vudu on November 09, 2005, 08:19:59 AM
QuoteCongrats on being the first person to post a stupid picture in a thread outside the thread introducing this new-found ability.
Originally posted by: Pale
{IMG}/media/012803719.jpg{/IMG}
Post by: MrMojoRising on November 09, 2005, 10:22:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
MrMojoRising: Metroid is slower paced and requires less precision. Most imporantly it's not one-hit-and-you-die. When you have to dodge swarms of bullets and hit enemies all over the place 3d becomes a big problem. Dodging is harder because distances cannot be judged properly and 3d games on consoles are much slower paced than 2d games. You only see a part of your surroundings in 3d, in 2d everything that's relevant is visible and usually enemies you canb't see won't attack you, either.
I'm not saying it'd be easy or is likely, all I'm saying is that if it was somehow done (and done well) that it would be cool.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2005, 01:25:49 PM
I have nothing against Super Mario Brothers DS. In fact, I am very excited about the game and I am looking forward to it. I also think it is graphically appealing. I chose those two games to compare because they are going to be similar gameplay, 2D side scrolling games, that use different art styles.
I am also not saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to give character and personality in 3D characters...I am saying it is harder than it is with sprites. When you are actually hand drawn images instead of polygons to create an image then you are able to easily but more character within the art.
As well, I was making a point that IF a game is going to be 2D if at all possible it should remain sprite based instead of moving towards 3D models.
Its a personal preference YES. But at the same time, do we really want that style to disappear because it became obsolete and too expensive to do compared to rendering 3D models?
Post by: iMoron on November 09, 2005, 02:04:30 PM
Ohhh... nooo... where's this thread going!
Ok... look, There will be some games that will lend thrmselves to 3D... and a woule lot that probably wont....
It wount be on our hands anyway, but in the hands of the developer/produser of the game who will deside what to do...
With that said, yes there are advantages and disadvantiges to graphics... BUT it is up to the artist avility to use whichever visual presentation to it fullest... or crapfest... And then the programers avility to make the graphical enviorment beliveble in its interaction or crap it as well in the proces... and that happens often...
Indeed some games should stay 2D... But maybe some could use 3D graphics and 2D gameplay, like Donkey Kong Country for example... Imaging them using full 3D and not just prerendered 3D... it is posible and if done corectlly you would not lose the personality as mush...
But it is esy to say and discuse when we are not involve in actual game development.... Wish I could get somewhere someday...
Now!
Forget about the graphics for once and post the names of forgotten games you would like to see on the Revolution
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 09, 2005, 02:06:19 PM
Edit: Gah, you blew up that argument on the next line!
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 09, 2005, 02:08:55 PM
But I know what Spak means, Super Princess Peach is much more warm and inviting than NSBM.
Post by: Pale on November 10, 2005, 03:59:29 AM
I'm not sure how to take them into the current gen or use the Rev controller, but I'm not getting paid to figure that out. ^^
Also...
I personally think that Donkey Kong Country and Mario vs. Donkey Kong DO count as 3D graphics where this argument is concerned... I mean, they look the same as 3D renders even if they are just sprites.
