Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 26, 2005, 12:30:31 PM
Quote
The short story:
Merrick reiterates that Hardware/HDTV isn't important, attacks Microsoft, says he hopes Revolution will be cheaper than Xbox 360, states that there's a high chance for Nintendo to attain world leadership in late 2007 (if their strategy works out), disses mobile phone gaming.
The long story (translation):
Nintendo skips high-tech race with Sony and Microsoft
October 24th 2005 The market for video games is preparing for a quantum leap: Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are about to release the next generation of video consoles shortly. While Sony and Microsoft are taking on a fierce battle for the fastest processor or the best graphics, Nintendo deliberately heads down a different path. "Our approach lies in opening up to new users - not new technology", says Jim Merrick, NoE's head of marketing.
"Hardware is irrelevant"
While Microsoft and Sony gear up their gaming consoles to turn into multimedia devices that also allow users to listen to music, watch films or surfing the net, Nintendo is reclaiming their roots. "Nintendo is an entertainment company. We don't own any film studios and we are no hardware company either. The Revolution is capable to play DVD films - but that isn't an important functions to us. We offer good interactive entertainment instead. But that's not a question of the hardware or power. This is all irrelevant. It's all about the games", Merrick said.
"Nothing for average people"
The problem of the industry according to Merrick: "An average person today can't make head or tails of a video game." Instead of the usual input devices (controllers), Nintendo would be focussing on a sort of remote device similar to TV remotes average people are used to. "When thinking about a gamer today, you picture a pale teenager, drinking cola and eating chips. This shouldn't be." A way in the direction of new users would be Nintendogs. "In Japan, more than a half of the registered Nintendogs gamers is female. Additionally the age spread is much greater", Merrick says. In Germany, Nintendo sold 50,000 Nintendogs games in the first eight days after release.
The company traditionally has a strong position among young consumers, backed up by games like 'Pokemon' or 'Mario'. "The youngest gamers are 4 to 5 years old. We won't give up our position for this group, but we also want to score with older people. In Japan, brain training games are strong with gamers who are 35 years or older. That are not the people that are traditionally referred to as video gamers", Merrick says.
Revolution cheaper than Xbox 360
Beside the games, the price is also supposed to broaden the user base: "We are very aware of the price sensitivity of the gaming market, especially when going for the mass market. I strongly hope that the Revolution will be cheaper than the 400 Euros of the Xbox 360.", Merrick says. The new Microsoft console is that expensive, because it supports HDTV, for example. "But only few people are benefitting from that. We won't do that", Merrick says. However, in one area, Microsoft has set new standards: building online communities. "Nintendo is also going to establish an online community. But we don't wont to make the mistake of monetarizing the service first and put in value for the customers only later. We want to go the other way with our mobile console Nintendo DS: when we're starting the online service for the game 'Mario Kart', it is free for the gamers", says Merrick. The online games for the Nintendo DS, which has sold 200,000 units so far in Germany, are not regarded as a self-contained source of income, but as a catalyst, to sell more games. "With the Nintendo-'Revolution', not all online games will be free for the users", Merrick notes.
"We don't worry too much about Xbox 360"
For christmas season, Nintendo doesn't intend to lower the price for their current console Gamecube at 99 Euros. Nintendo sold 800,000 consoles in Germany so far and is expecting good christmas sales - even with the Gamecube at the end of its lifespan and a strong competitor with the Xbox 360. "We don't worry too much about Xbox 360. The supply will be limited and the types of games offered won't appeal to all target groups. There will always be a group of technology fans, that buys any next-generation console on release. But there won't be an impact on the mass market - at least not until they see what is offered to them by Sony and Nintendo next year. When our strategy of expanding on the customer base works out, we have a very good chance to achieve world leadership by late 2007", Merrick hopes. Since March, the company has sold about 1,5 million Nintendo DS. They want to have sold 3 million DS in Europe by end of the year.
Merrick hasn't high hopes for games for mobile phones, though. "Every year mobile gaming is expected to go big business. This didn't happen so far. Only few consumers buy cell phone games. Most consumers play the games already preinstalled on their cell phone. So far we didn't see any mobile phone which our games could be played on properly. The second generation of the Nokia N-Gage was much better than the first generation, but its reputation is already tarnished.
Soruce
Post by: Djunknown on October 26, 2005, 04:44:20 PM
Anyway, on to the dissection:
Quote
We won't give up our position for this group, but we also want to score with older people. In Japan, brain training games are strong with gamers who are 35 years or older. That are not the people that are traditionally referred to as video gamers", Merrick says.
True for Japan, but untested in the USA and Europe. No word as of this writing if NCL has any intention of mass releasing "Touch Generation" titles outside Japan (I say 'mass releasing' because of Electroplankton.). Instead of testing the waters with the DS, they're diving head-first with the Revolution.
Quote
The new Microsoft console is that expensive, because it supports HDTV, for example. "But only few people are benefitting from that. We won't do that", Merrick says.
Its already been argued to death so I'll keep it short: The percentage of HDTV owners won't shrink in the coming years, so why not 'future proof' a little...
Quote
When our strategy of expanding on the customer base works out, we have a very good chance to achieve world leadership by late 2007", Merrick hopes.
Not even Reggie, the kick-ass American makes this type of big claims. I'd hold him to that statement, but this industry points the finger in your direction if you do...
Quote
Merrick hasn't high hopes for games for mobile phones, though. "Every year mobile gaming is expected to go big business. This didn't happen so far. Only few consumers buy cell phone games. Most consumers play the games already preinstalled on their cell phone. So far we didn't see any mobile phone which our games could be played on properly. The second generation of the Nokia N-Gage was much better than the first generation, but its reputation is already tarnished.
That's because Nokia's been going at it the wrong way. Mobile Gaming in Japan is top-notch, the rest of the world can't keep up.
Interesting article. It sounds like Mr.Merrick wants to tell the people more but can't. C'mon a few slips won't hurt.
Post by: Nephilim on October 26, 2005, 05:55:34 PM
I want rev to support media, esp since it has a sd card slot
Post by: KDR_11k on October 27, 2005, 05:25:00 AM
Post by: vudu on October 27, 2005, 09:19:44 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 01, 2005, 06:41:10 AM
Of course this is Europe and I'm already expecting Nintendo to completely bomb there and in Australia regardless of how they do in North America and Japan. Those Nintendo affiliates are run by idiots and that problem won't be fixed by any console. When it comes to anything regarding sales or marketing we really have to pay attention to the Japanese and American reps.
Post by: Mario on November 01, 2005, 06:53:47 AM
Quote
No one aside from die-hard gamers even know what the Rev is (ironic considering the non-gamer focus)
Doesn't matter yet, they can't buy it anyway. It'll seem more fresh when they first see it rather than "oh hey i remember this I heard about it a year ago".
Think of the Xbox 360 demographic, showing Revolution now will do NOTHING to alter sales of it, if they've got $1000 to plunk down on a gaming console they aren't interested in saving money and only going with Revolution. Not to mention systems sell out at launch anyway, even the GameCube did. It's best to let the Xbox 360 dust settle.
Think, pretend it's May 2006, Nintendo is about to finally blow their load, they will have the worlds attention, will any of this matter then?
Post by: KDR_11k on November 01, 2005, 08:50:40 AM
Depends on who you ask. Apparently the graphical leap isn't large enough even for many casuals. That'll hurt MS. Since they're talking about a "gradual launch" (i.e. deliberate shortage) that could hurt them big time.
Look at the situation: You can buy either that console right there that'll be on short supply for months, has a meagre launch lineup, that had a predecessor that lacked exclusives and that's not much of an improvement upon the existing consoles or you can wait for the new console by the current market leader that promises a much larger graphical advance and a huge number of exclusive games.
Since hype always sounds better than reality and the X360 will not be able to compete with the PS3's claims MS might take a big hit from the early launch. They're hoping to pull a PS2 but they may end up with a Dreamcast. Sure, no guarantees but I wouldn't expect everyone to rush out and buy an Xbox 360 just yet.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 01, 2005, 08:55:51 AM
So yeah, stupid people. Really though, I agree with KDR, I haven't been hearing much hype about the 360. People are like "Maybe I'll get one" or "The games cost HOW MUCH? Screw that."
Post by: ThePerm on November 01, 2005, 12:37:32 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 01, 2005, 12:59:32 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 02, 2005, 05:25:18 AM
I wish Nintendo would include HDTV as well, but I'm not going to miss it too much.
Post by: zakkiel on November 02, 2005, 10:50:17 AM
QuoteA year ago,no one cared about the 360 either. At least hard core gamers are intrigued by the Revolution. Casual surveying of that repository of all knowledge, the Internet, suggests to me that the reaction there after the first hour or so was overwhelmingly positive.
The Xbox 360 has a huge advantage on the Rev: people actually care about it.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 02, 2005, 11:33:17 AM
A year ago a console competing with the X360 wasn't launching. It's a totally different situation. The next gen starts this month and Nintendo is not only not at the start line but hasn't even signed up for the race yet. Nintendo presently has a console where a month can go by and literally no games are released. Their big Christmas title was delayed until next year. If you're a Cube owner you don't have much to do right now. However MS is releasing a brand new console. Now you have the choice of either waiting an unspecified amount of time for a console you know virtually nothing about or dropping a company whose consoles have consistently not lived up to expectations for the last two generations and buying a new console within the next few weeks with brand new games available from a console maker whose presence in the console market is growing. What do you think most people are going to choose? The underachiever whose future is unknown or the sure-thing superstar that keeps going up? A lot of people are going to pick MS when presented with that choice. It just logically is a safer choice.
We live in an instant gratification society. MS is providing that instant gratification and that's a huge advantage.
Post by: Kairon on November 02, 2005, 11:55:48 AM
So I can't possibly see what you're up in arms about. The Rev's success is not based on cannibalizing people who'll buy an X360, it is based on being something that every gamer and non-gamer will need to have because it'll be something truly and uniquely appealing.
Besides, you better accept it Ian that the X360 will sell like gangbusters and move maybe 2 or 3 million units worldwide this holiday season. EVERY console at launch sells out. Heck, AND Microsoft is doing a with-in 3 week world launch, so there will definitely be supply problems that will make the hype seem bigger, but the sales numbers seem less.
Nintendo shouldn't fight the X360 launch because Sony probably will anyways, and because in reality there's nothing you can do about it. Priced at 400 bucks the X360 is hitting the friggin early adopter crowd who buy EVERYTHING ANYWAYS!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on November 02, 2005, 12:25:08 PM
I'm becoming more and more convinced that the REV will easily surpass the sales of the cube.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 02, 2005, 12:35:32 PM
Dammit. If one more person casually dismisses Fire Emblem...
What the hell, people. The game just came out. It's like you hoarded all your bitter whining so you could pounce on the Cube right after one of its biggest games this year is no longer listed in "upcoming releases".
Give the damn game a chance to die before you bury it.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 02, 2005, 12:46:47 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 02, 2005, 12:49:52 PM
Well that strategy is a whole other can of worms. It does explain why Nintendo wouldn't care though.
"Dammit. If one more person casually dismisses Fire Emblem..."
I'm not. It's on my Christmas list.
But it's not for everybody. Technically there are games coming out and some good ones too. But there's not much to pick from and I imagine a fair bit of Cube owners are stuck with no upcoming game on their Christmas list just because they're not interested in the handful of titles available.
Post by: zakkiel on November 02, 2005, 01:00:55 PM
QuoteNintendo's strategy isn't to keep people from buying the x360. Nothing they could do would make much impact anyway. Early adopters for the X360 are either a) Micrososft fanboys, or b)general hardcore gamers who have to have the latest greatest in consoles. Neither market could possibly be dissuaded; they're buying because it's teh xbox or because it was released first.
A year ago a console competing with the X360 wasn't launching.
All that aside, there just isn't much exceitement about the X360. It's being launched prematurely, and there just doesn't seem to be much appetite for it.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 02, 2005, 01:25:35 PM
Nintendo will let the Xbox 360 launch go unscathed for now, come next year however, Nintendo has a plan. The Xbox frenzy will have died down, and gamers, nay, the world will be listening to what Nintendo has to say. They can take away any precedence the Xbox has in a second. How? With games. Show some awesome games and anything made by Microsoft will look archeic.
So who cares if about those early adopters. They were bound to buy it anyways. You must remember that Microsoft may have a head-start, but their not even in the same race.
Post by: Kairon on November 02, 2005, 01:45:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Or Ian, you can drop your Boolean thinking and consider that Nintendo has already said something to the effect of GO AHEAD and buy an X360! Because when the Rev comes out you'll want to buy it ALSO because of the thing that make it unique that the PS3, or the X360, neither of them can offer anything in comparison to."
Well that strategy is a whole other can of worms. It does explain why Nintendo wouldn't care though.
So it just comes down to you completely disagree with Nintendo's strategy, lol.
That's perfectly fine, it's just that I haven't seen much at all to convince me of the "Nintendo should just get in a slugging match with Sony and MS" mentality.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on November 02, 2005, 01:55:02 PM
I get what you mean by this so I'll clarify my point. Nintendo's goal shouldn't be to keep people in general from buying the X360. Like you said launch is going to sell out anyway. My point is that of those people buying the X360 at launch as few Cube owners as possible are among them. Nintendo has to keep people who for this generation where Nintendo fans, or at the very least exclusively Cube owners, from jumping ship. So that's why they shouldn't underestimate the X360 because it could steal people away. I feel they need to do something to keep those gamers with Nintendo ie: something to make them wait for the Rev.
Post by: Kairon on November 02, 2005, 02:14:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"So who cares if about those early adopters. They were bound to buy it anyways."
I get what you mean by this so I'll clarify my point. Nintendo's goal shouldn't be to keep people in general from buying the X360. Like you said launch is going to sell out anyway. My point is that of those people buying the X360 at launch as few Cube owners as possible are among them. Nintendo has to keep people who for this generation where Nintendo fans, or at the very least exclusively Cube owners, from jumping ship. So that's why they shouldn't underestimate the X360 because it could steal people away. I feel they need to do something to keep those gamers with Nintendo ie: something to make them wait for the Rev.
Umm..I'm confused. It's okay for gamers in general to buy the X360, but it's NOT ok for Nintendo fans to buy the X360?
Ian, mercantilism went out of style with the middle ages. According to Nintendo's strategy on the REV there is NO STEALING customers. Regular gamers today are highly likely to own more than one console, such that "theft" of a customer doesn't really exist. Of those people who DO own only one console this is because of two main reasons:
1. Price. And at $400 the X360 isn't going to be winning any budget conscious shoppers anytime soon.
2. They're casual or non-gamers to begin with. This is why Nintendo has angled their console to offer unique experiences such that if you can only get one console, Nintendo's is the console that has something truly extraordinary, something unique and revolutionary and a definite must-have exclusive over the other consoles.
*sigh* Nintendo isn't a company we follow because we've bet upon them to win some horse race. Nintendo is a company we follow because we believe that they believe in videogames as videogames, and not just another product for a corporation to hoist upon us.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
P.S. If you think about it... with Nintendo hoping to "expand" the market, they're actually trying to get more customers for Sony or Microsoft to steal! Oh noes, Nintendo is just helping the competition! kekeke...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 02, 2005, 02:20:45 PM
Most people (I know anyway) don't have the thought process "Well, this $50 game isn't coming out, so I'm going to buy a $460 system and a game." Rather, most people would look for another game that appeals to them or spend the $50 on something unrelated. Your making a mistake, but I can't exactly pin-point it. Furthermore, those GC gamers that do buy an Xbox were probably planning to anyway before Zelda was delayed. Either way, Nintendo isn't in any position to stop the gamers from buying an Xbox.
They could have, however, made a sh!t-ton of cash from all those people who:
A) Were going to buy the game
B) Didn't want to spend a bunch of money on the Xbox, but rather a $129-150 bucks on a system and a stellar game.
They could have decreased the general demand for it, but that's not the same thing as "protecting" their cube owners because they were most likely going to buy it anyway.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2005, 04:58:26 AM
On another topic, I am by no means disappointed with my GameCube. Although it's going out on a bit of a sour note, I think it fixed the major problems the N64 had, while only introducing minor new ones (undersized memory cards). For me, the only really disappointing things about the GameCube are :
A) The slow final year we're about to have - but even the mighty Super NES had a poor final year, and
B) The sales...but who cares about those as long as the games were good? Which they were.
The N64 was a bit more of a disappointment due to horrible third party support (much worse than the GameCube) but it still holds a special place in my heart for introducing me to awesome 3D games and for having a lot of highly polished titles.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2005, 07:53:54 AM
I think that strategy is severely flawed. People typically don't buy two consoles. Consoles are expensive so for most it's an either or scenario. A sale for one console is usually a non-sale for another. The only people who buy multiple consoles are hardcore gamers with a lot of disposable income. Since the NES days I have never ever been to someone's house and noticed they had two consoles from the same generation. I didn't know anyone like that until I got internet.
"Most people (I know anyway) don't have the thought process 'Well, this $50 game isn't coming out, so I'm going to buy a $460 system and a game.'"
I'm thinking more of the thought process "Dammit, Zelda got delayed and the Cube's looking pretty weak. I'm getting pretty sick of putting up with Nintendo's crap. I'm jumping ship." I'm thinking about the fence sitters. The formerly loyal Nintendo fans who are just getting sick of Nintendo consistently underachieving and are thus considering the idea of jumping ship. Those people need a reason to stick with Nintendo and thus need an incentive to buy the Rev NOW before competitors start to tempt them.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 03, 2005, 09:37:42 AM
However, it seems like MS is dropping the ball. They aren't going to have enough systems for the people who are fanboys and the like, so how is the person who recently decided they want one, going to get one?
They probably can't tell about a month or two later. This gives Nintendo enough time to make a few encouraging comments to those people on the fence. Hopefully this december MiyamotoN will at least have descriptions of how the games in production will work or the revealing of some integral piece of information.
Post by: Kairon on November 03, 2005, 11:30:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Regular gamers today are highly likely to own more than one console, such that "theft" of a customer doesn't really exist."
I think that strategy is severely flawed. People typically don't buy two consoles. Consoles are expensive so for most it's an either or scenario. A sale for one console is usually a non-sale for another. The only people who buy multiple consoles are hardcore gamers with a lot of disposable income. Since the NES days I have never ever been to someone's house and noticed they had two consoles from the same generation. I didn't know anyone like that until I got internet.
The people who are hardcore gamers typically buy two consoles, so we really shouldn't think that if a hardcore gamer buys an X360, that they'll never buy a Rev. Early Adopters and serious gamers are, well, they buy most everything.
As for the people who DO buy only one console, I stated cost as one of the reasons. This cost reason for only one console is a big reason why Nintendo is aiming for a lower pricepoint, to make buying the Rev as painless as possible. YET, these same people who buy only one console are NOT the type of people who would buy the console at launch! If you're worrying about these people, the critical stages are the second and third years of the consoles life because that's when they typically adopt, not the first year rife with shortages, fewer appealing games, and most importantly, STILL HIGH PRICES.
Anyways, let's fast forward PAST the X360 launch which you are inexplicably riled up about to a time when a consumer has enough money for one console: it comes down to exclusives. Microsoft has some and Sony has some and Nintendo has some. Nintendo has typically not excelled in this category despite having it's first party franchises, but this is exactly why Nintendo designed the Rev Controller. On the PS3 you'll get a couple of exclusive games. On the X360 you'll get a couple of exclusive games. BUT, on the Rev, not only are Nintendo's Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. exclusive, but you also get amazing exclusive Gameplay which will also bring a long a whole slew of intrinsically exclusive titles BUT YOU ALSO GET Cheaper Retro NES Games!
If you look at the Rev, Nintendo is really saying to people who are late adopters and only buy one console that, "if you only buy one console, why buy the PS3 or X360 which are virtually the same? The Rev won't just have exclusive games, but also exclusive gameplay AND exclusive retro downloads!"
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on November 03, 2005, 11:49:28 AM
QuoteNotice the move here: I don't own two consoles, therefore it must be the case that most gamers do not.
I disagree with people who say regular gamers are highly likely to own more than one console. I never had the cash or the rich parents to buy me multiple consoles, and now that I do have the money to buy multiple consoles, I don't have time to play them.
Post by: IceCold on November 03, 2005, 12:20:37 PM
Well yeah...IF 3rd parties will actually take the time to mould their games around the NRC, or at least adapt them to make them play better. Many, many ports will just use the shell, or if not, use the NRC in an uncreative and unintuitive fashion.
Post by: odifiend on November 03, 2005, 12:38:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteNotice the move here: I don't own two consoles, therefore it must be the case that most gamers do not.
I disagree with people who say regular gamers are highly likely to own more than one console. I never had the cash or the rich parents to buy me multiple consoles, and now that I do have the money to buy multiple consoles, I don't have time to play them.
Notice your refusal to try and follow logic. Most people don't have rich parents that buy them multiple console and those who can afford multiple console tend to work and do not have the time or money to follow multiple consoles. Remember people play games and not consoles. Most people will buy more games for the first console they purchased rather than invest in another platform.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2005, 12:51:14 PM
This was supposed to be a big advantage with the DS but I have not been very impressed with the DS third party offering. Or in cases where I am, like Castlevania, they're for games that don't really make much use of the DS features. The truth is third parties just aren't very creative so you can't really have a strategy that relies on them to be. You can rely on them to make great games but not innovative or groundbreaking ones.
"if you only buy one console, why buy the PS3 or X360 which are virtually the same? The Rev won't just have exclusive games, but also exclusive gameplay AND exclusive retro downloads!"
What do I care if the PS3 or X360 are virtually the same if I only buy one of them? Just because the Rev is different doesn't mean it's better. That's why I feel they should give us some more info. PROVE that this new and different way is better.
You have a lot of faith in the Rev but unfortunately that's a requirement to be interested in it. Faith isn't good enough. "Trust us it will be cool" isn't good enough particularly from a company that failed on that promise a fair bit this gen.
Post by: Kairon on November 03, 2005, 03:03:55 PM
Piper Jaffray News bit on Gamasutra
Quote
In addition, in an interesting insight into teen trends, 65 percent of student households own Sony's PlayStation 2, 50 percent own Microsoft's Xbox and just 26 percent own Nintendo's GameCube.
Through simple analysis, this means that the smallest possible percentage of teens who own more than one console is 26%. (This assumes that the PS2 and XBox communities are so distinct that only 15% is shared between them, and that these people also bought the GC such that the number of people who own the GC and another system is as small as possible.
The largest possible percentage of multi-console owning teen households is 76%. This assumes that everyone who bought an XBox or GC also bought another consoles, and assumes that there is no triple-ownership (which my briest friend happens to be: a triple owner).
This survey handles just the teen market, which means it doesn't even address the 20-year olds and up who are also avid hardcore gamers and, being in their 20's, are comparatively big spenders as well and can be expected to have even more multiple console ownership than teenagers.
AND, this survey took place late in the console penetration, allowing casual and non-gamers to be included and dilute the number to make multiple console owners have a smaller percentage. I am pretty confident that this data can be interpreted such that, even if we look at this conservatively we are looking at least at a 45% real world multiple console ownership among hardcore gamers (including college kids).
I do not consider those small numbers, and though my data is extrapolated, I suspect that Nintendo has seen similar data to back it up and expects the trend of multiple console ownership among hardcore gamers to hold strong and even grow.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on November 03, 2005, 03:18:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
IceCold's right. In a perfect world the Rev could offer some cool stuff. But Nintendo can't force third parties to play ball. They don't have the market position to convince a company like EA to make an entirely different Madden just for the Rev. If the shell wasn't there a whole bunch of third parties would probably just avoid the Rev altogether. Why make a special game for a unique controller when I can make one game for both of the other consoles that probably will sell better anyway due to the current market positions?
This was supposed to be a big advantage with the DS but I have not been very impressed with the DS third party offering. Or in cases where I am, like Castlevania, they're for games that don't really make much use of the DS features. The truth is third parties just aren't very creative so you can't really have a strategy that relies on them to be. You can rely on them to make great games but not innovative or groundbreaking ones.
"if you only buy one console, why buy the PS3 or X360 which are virtually the same? The Rev won't just have exclusive games, but also exclusive gameplay AND exclusive retro downloads!"
What do I care if the PS3 or X360 are virtually the same if I only buy one of them? Just because the Rev is different doesn't mean it's better. That's why I feel they should give us some more info. PROVE that this new and different way is better.
You have a lot of faith in the Rev but unfortunately that's a requirement to be interested in it. Faith isn't good enough. "Trust us it will be cool" isn't good enough particularly from a company that failed on that promise a fair bit this gen.
Don't forget, the shell STILL makes use of the Rev's gyros. Games ported to the Rev using the shell can still offer unique gameplay that other systems don't have.
I do agree with you that Third Parties don't seem capable of coming out of the gate with completely adequate projects. Heck, it took them years to catch up to Nintendo in terms of using the analog stick! But I also think you underestimate the draw of this new gameplay style. This isn't just drawing on a screen Ian, this is the first expression of actually translating full 3D movement into actual control, this is the first real step towards the admittedly-wacky holy grail of virtual reality. We have a very prominent previous example of more natural game controls that caught on big with casual and non-gamers everywhere: it's called DDR, and it had even my uncles and aunts (*shudder*) rushing to play the PSX game.
Now, yes, I do have a lot of faith in Nintendo. I have faith because I've played their games, I've read Miyamoto's interviews, I've looked at their past, and in trying to understand the company more, I've learned to accept them as who they are.
But you're right, faith won't get gamer to buy the Rev. Nor will screenshots. What are screenshots anyways but telling the consumer that "hey! I have pretty graphics! You'll have to trust me that I play as well as I look, and that the animation doesn't suck, nor the voice acting!"
No, faith won't get people to buy the rev, nor screenshots, nor techspecs, nor viral campaigns, nor all the collective effort of any fanboy community. It'll be people picking up the controller and playing the games.
Luckily, that's always been the one area where Nintendo has given us their best efforts.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: odifiend on November 03, 2005, 05:05:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, according to a recent survey released by Piper Jaffray...
Piper Jaffray News bit on GamasutraQuote
In addition, in an interesting insight into teen trends, 65 percent of student households own Sony's PlayStation 2, 50 percent own Microsoft's Xbox and just 26 percent own Nintendo's GameCube.
Through simple analysis, this means that the smallest possible percentage of teens who own more than one console is 26%. (This assumes that the PS2 and XBox communities are so distinct that only 15% is shared between them, and that these people also bought the GC such that the number of people who own the GC and another system is as small as possible.
The largest possible percentage of multi-console owning teen households is 76%. This assumes that everyone who bought an XBox or GC also bought another consoles, and assumes that there is no triple-ownership (which my briest friend happens to be: a triple owner).
This survey handles just the teen market, which means it doesn't even address the 20-year olds and up who are also avid hardcore gamers and, being in their 20's, are comparatively big spenders as well and can be expected to have even more multiple console ownership than teenagers.
AND, this survey took place late in the console penetration, allowing casual and non-gamers to be included and dilute the number to make multiple console owners have a smaller percentage. I am pretty confident that this data can be interpreted such that, even if we look at this conservatively we are looking at least at a 45% real world multiple console ownership among hardcore gamers (including college kids).
I do not consider those small numbers, and though my data is extrapolated, I suspect that Nintendo has seen similar data to back it up and expects the trend of multiple console ownership among hardcore gamers to hold strong and even grow.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
For someone who speaks as if they are an expert with statistics, I'm surprised you'd try to use a survey as definitive proof for anything. They surveyed these teens at a mall and online. Not even close to random or representative. Friends (and let's not forget sibilings) tend to be of the same economic status, so you'd get clusters of multiple console hits. I won't even go into the pointlessness of online surveying. You can be confident of this data all you want but worldwide, there is no way 1 in 4 own multiple consoles.
Also interesting how you feel multiple console ownership will grow when that same survey states that the 'teen' trend is decline in video games.
And finally, Kairon, do you honestly think 20 years or older will help your percentages? They have more disposible income, yes, but unless you are that ebay games manager who lives with his mother, you also tend to have more responsiblity and crap to spend that income on.
Post by: IceCold on November 03, 2005, 06:01:58 PM
I agree with everyone who isn't in favour of the "second console" stand. I don't like it myself; the Revolution shouldn't be like that - it shouldn't be an afterthought or play second fiddle.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 03, 2005, 06:18:33 PM
Post by: Mario on November 03, 2005, 08:02:38 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 03, 2005, 08:13:12 PM
a) they don't own more than one console
or
b) they DO own more than one console
This survey is the closest thing we've seen towards any concrete evidence in this thread as to the actual numbers of multiple console ownership.
I never professed to be a statistics expert, but from this survey we see that there is actual real world non-testimonial support to propose that a good amount of the population does own more than one console, and this goes to lend credence to the idea that Nintendo may actually find a real market in the owns-more-than-one-console hardcore gamer segment.
Disdain the study, but this is still the first concrete piece of evidence given to support the penetration of multi-console ownership among the gaming population.
Now, certainly we're disagreeing on the validity of this "and" console strategy. Of course, only time will definitively answer the question, but I still haven't seen any reasons to question this second-console strategy aside from personal testimonials of "I don't believe this is the way to go" when I've never seen anything to the contrary in the time I've been trying to keep up with what's going on in the industry.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 03, 2005, 10:10:11 PM
Assuming Nintendo can pull that off.
Post by: wandering on November 03, 2005, 11:38:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Well yeah...IF 3rd parties will actually take the time to mould their games around the NRC, or at least adapt them to make them play better. Many, many ports will just use the shell, or if not, use the NRC in an uncreative and unintuitive fashion.
People keep saying that third parties will use nothing but the shell....not going to happen. In fact, they'll jump at the chance to make their games more appealing for less effort by including motion control.
Can you think of a single third-part DS game that doesn't use the touch-screen?
Post by: Dasmos on November 04, 2005, 02:06:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Well yeah...IF 3rd parties will actually take the time to mould their games around the NRC, or at least adapt them to make them play better. Many, many ports will just use the shell, or if not, use the NRC in an uncreative and unintuitive fashion.
People keep saying that third parties will use nothing but the shell....not going to happen. In fact, they'll jump at the chance to make their games more appealing for less effort by including motion control.
Can you think of a single third-part DS game that doesn't use the touch-screen?
Sure the touchscreen is used. But mostly not in unique and interesting ways, that's the difference. The NRC could be used to choice an option in the menu bar. Revolutionary? No.
Post by: wandering on November 05, 2005, 06:42:38 AM
