Post by: wandering on October 20, 2005, 12:22:40 PM
Apparently, playable demos are out right now. I don't really live near any of the loactions listed, but if any of you do, you should go, and stuff.
Edit: here's a handy map of kiosk locations.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 20, 2005, 12:37:14 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 20, 2005, 01:07:27 PM
KIDS MASH BUTTONS AND ANALOG STICKS WITH GREAT VIGOR
Post by: couchmonkey on October 20, 2005, 01:44:55 PM
Post by: Artimus on October 20, 2005, 01:54:55 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 20, 2005, 02:08:28 PM
Quote
Go to what? Play higher rez versions of current gen games? No thanks...
owhat, Wal-Mart has HDTV kiosks now?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 20, 2005, 02:35:43 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 20, 2005, 02:44:16 PM
Post by: Artimus on October 20, 2005, 03:57:10 PM
Post by: Djunknown on October 20, 2005, 05:20:57 PM
Quote
I'd be interested in trying out the controller. Matt from IGN says it's the most comfortable controller he's ever held so I want to see if that claim is justified.
The wired controllers are on sale now I believe. They're compatible with PC's via USB, though they're 40 USD.
A hands on demo of Kameo and DOA4 should convince skeptics that the '360 is more than capable of just prettier current-gen games...
Post by: Artimus on October 20, 2005, 06:17:19 PM
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2005, 06:19:51 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on October 20, 2005, 06:28:45 PM
Post by: Pale on October 20, 2005, 06:43:07 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on October 20, 2005, 07:18:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2005, 08:14:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
There is only one acceptable type of graphics: artistic. For some games that means realistic (sports games), for others it means unrealstic (Wind Waker), but the bottom line is you need art. DOA is the most unartistic series acclaimed for its graphics. Its characters are neither artistic nor realistic. They look like plastic which I do not believe is the intent.
They look like Blow-up dolls, which I always thought WAS their intent.
DOA4 is artistic, if you think like a Japanese Otaku shut-in. Ok, that was unfair to Japanese Otaku, but the shut-ins I have little regret in belittling.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: TMW on October 20, 2005, 08:32:26 PM
Otaku is a pretty strong word in Japan. We've bastardized it to make it mean "Japanese culture geek", but very few japanese people would actually call themselves an otaku! XD
Post by: KDR_11k on October 21, 2005, 02:54:12 AM
Otaku is a loaded word in Japan, comparable to Columbine. IIRC there was some media drama about a serial killer that got the term its conotations.
Post by: mantidor on October 21, 2005, 06:00:18 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on October 21, 2005, 06:23:51 AM
I don't care if 360 is only higher-res versions of current games, I enjoy current games. No doubt, new game experiences are the reason why Revolution will be more interesting than Xbox 360, but I'm still excited to see the shiny new graphics 360 has to offer. I think a few of the games like Kameo are starting to look really great.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 21, 2005, 07:20:41 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 21, 2005, 08:00:31 AM
I have seen the graphics for Kameo, and they are definately next generation graphics...but I have a very hard time believing it plays and feels like a Nintendo platformer.
No Rare platformer (even the SNES Donkey Kongs) have been able to have the balanced gameplay and feel of Nintendo platformer...yet most of them have been quite stunning visually. I expect the same with this entry.
What Rare never did right was capture a correct pace, and feel to the world. Despite that most 3D platformers play the same and have similar reactions to being hurt, running into a wall, walking, jumping, running. Somehow none of them did it as well as Nintendo. Its hard to explain, but when Mario hits a wall and flys backwards it just fun.
Its the little touches. Rare was able to capture those little touches in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, but lost them in Conkers and there other multiplayer games.
Post by: hudsonhawk on October 21, 2005, 09:04:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Oh that's right. It'll show you what HighDef looks like on LowDef. And since it's widescreen, it'll be letterboxed, making things smaller.
The Xbox kiosks have 23" HDTV's.
Post by: vudu on October 21, 2005, 09:10:40 AM
Post by: Artimus on October 21, 2005, 10:15:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
To me it seems clear that the DOA games look EXACTLY like what the designer wants them to look like.
That's the problem. The designer sucks!
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 21, 2005, 10:21:40 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on October 21, 2005, 10:49:55 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 21, 2005, 10:53:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: hudsonhawkQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Oh that's right. It'll show you what HighDef looks like on LowDef. And since it's widescreen, it'll be letterboxed, making things smaller.
The Xbox kiosks have 23" HDTV's.
Wow.
Those puppies better receive quality maintenance.
I wonder if my Wal-Mart will have a kiosk, or just shove the 360 unit with the tiny TV that's built into the top of the glass game shelf, as I've seen the Wal-marts around here do.
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
What's it with Ayane anyway, is that some kind of inside joke?
Ayane's a GUY, OMG
Post by: hudsonhawk on October 21, 2005, 11:40:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
I'm a little upset that there's no kiosk in the Chicago-land area. I would totally go and try one out.
Well, if you don't mind a drive to the burbs, supposedly Palatine and Addison have them. (List of confirmed stores, in case it wasn't already posted in the thread)
That's too much of a drive for me, I'll wait a week for Gamestop to get them.
Post by: vudu on October 21, 2005, 11:54:53 AM
I'm actually going out to De Kalb this weekend, and there's one setup there, so I might try to stop by and see what all the fuss is about.
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on October 21, 2005, 09:09:34 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on October 21, 2005, 10:44:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: S-U-P-E-R
Without Perfect Dark, this is meaningless
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Finally! Someone with the same name as me! I don't feel so alone anymore! I SHALL CALL YOU BROTHER!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KDR_11k on October 21, 2005, 11:03:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Ayane's a GUY, OMG
You mean just like Daisy?
Post by: ShyGuy on October 22, 2005, 10:24:19 AM
Interestingly when I saw it, nobody was playing (even though the sony and gamecube demo stations were being used)
The screen they put on it is a nice hi-def flat panel, but it occasionly looks a little dark because of the angle you view it at.
The controller is more comfortable, better ergonomics I suppose. The plastic it's made with feels a little cheap, but it is an overall improvement from the Xbox controllers. I wouldn't call it more comfortable than the Gamecube controllers though.
The demo I played was Kameo, It goes through a little cut scene detaling a war between elves and ogres or something, The cutscene appeared to be made in-engine.
The demo started with a tutorial at a castle and you change into different monsters as they walk you through.
The controls felt a little dodgy in places but not bad.
The graphics were a mixed bag in my opinion. Sometimes they looked impressive and sometimes they looked like this gen graphics. The lighting was definetly better, the textures were decent. Suprisingly the characters seemed to have about the same amount of Polys that this gen characters have, so you could still see angular arms and whatnot.
Overall, it seemed decent and well put together, but not next-gen. The demo I played could have been done on a cube, xbox or PS2 without taking away too much except for a few graphical flourishes.
Judging by the demo I played I would say the graphical leap between the 360 and the Xbox is only a little bit more than the leap between the PS2 and the Xbox.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 22, 2005, 10:38:12 PM
Post by: Renny on October 23, 2005, 06:01:22 AM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on October 23, 2005, 08:02:59 PM
I'll agree though when i played DOA 3 on XBOX, none of the characters felt like a good character design.
Post by: wandering on October 24, 2005, 12:37:43 AM
Anyway, I'm going to Target tomorrow, so hopefully they'll have a kiosk.
....Oh, as for DOA, I've always felt that the series was at least somewhat artistic. I mean, most fighting games tend to be generic fantasy stuff, but with DOA...the characters are ganeric male fantasy, I suppose, but apart from that... the colors and the backgrounds tend to strike me as being pretty, artisitc, and somewhat unique.
Post by: couchmonkey on October 25, 2005, 07:16:59 AM
Some of the environments in DOA are very beautiful - the forest levels in DOA 3 are stuck in my head permanently.
Post by: vudu on October 25, 2005, 09:08:01 AM
Post by: wandering on October 25, 2005, 09:24:04 AM
I'm just glad they don't make portable game systems... if they did, they'd probably down planes.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 25, 2005, 01:14:17 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 25, 2005, 01:19:18 PM
In the words of Nelson... HAW HAW!
Of course I remember initially Xbox demo units had a problem where they would crash and some error message would come up and MS reps had to come in to fix it as in rebooting the machine didn't fix it. In the end that obviously didn't make any difference in regards to the Xbox's success. But this is still funny nonetheless.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 26, 2005, 07:36:19 PM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 01, 2005, 05:11:25 AM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 01, 2005, 08:38:42 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 01, 2005, 08:41:14 AM
I chose Kameo because, well, Rare lol. Let me first say that I hate cutscenes in store demos. I want to PLAY, I'm not there forever! Also, I hit the CIRCLE OF POWAH a lot when trying to hit start, which would freeze the game and bring up a bar at the side of the screen. I can see this being very annoying, you should at least have to hold it down for a little while.
The game itself I didn't have too much time with. The graphics were just as they always were- moderatley better than most current gen games. The gameplay wasn't so bad, I can see this game being pretty fun. But I only played for a couple minutes, so who knows, this IS Rare..
So yeah, whatever. I bought Fire Embrum there, I am immensely pleased!
Post by: Chris1 on November 01, 2005, 01:51:24 PM
Post by: Shecky on November 01, 2005, 02:18:25 PM
The game... well it didn't really have the feel of possession that I thought they made it out to be way back when. Rather it was more like transform into different characters with different context sensitive moves for each character. Each with advantages in particular conditions. To tell you the truth it felt like I was playing Majora's Mask to a certain degree. One of your characters was a small plant type and another was a lunking type that moved by rolling itself into a ball... almost entirely but not quite like a deku and goron. Now granted the final game may have many different transformation creatures, but this demo set had an eerie similarity. I had camera troubles, but admittedly I didn't really know what options I had to control it.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 01, 2005, 02:24:46 PM
I almost cried.
Post by: vudu on November 02, 2005, 08:41:42 AM
QuoteHm ... Banjo-Kazooie is a rip-off of Mario 64. Diddy Kong Racing is a rip-off of Mario Kart. Are you really surprised Kameo is a rip-off of Majora's Mask?
To tell you the truth it felt like I was playing Majora's Mask to a certain degree.
Completely off topic, how was King Kong? I'm kind of interested in it for GameCube.
Post by: mac<censored> on November 04, 2005, 08:56:28 PM
Most of the games looked pretty much like xbox games. The most impressive visually was Kameo, and that was largely due to the super high-resolution textures and nice lighting, but there was a sort of "high-res shimmer" to everything, like they weren't doing any anti-aliasing at all. Kameo itself was extemely "Rare", technically very impressive, but weird twitchy control and an annoyingly generic feel to the characters and gameplay -- it felt almost exactly like starfox adventures! [One very noticeable thing was that Rare went crazy with the normal-maps, just about every surface had that bumpy 3d look.]
The 360 controller was alright, the sticks felt good, but the button placement and feel sucked. As someone mentioned, the controller body felt kinda flimsy and cheap, not very nice on an expensive system.
So I donno, it's not bad really, but hardly seems worth the high cost (or the hype).
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 08, 2005, 03:19:53 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on November 09, 2005, 06:55:58 AM
I liked Beyond Good and Evil though, so I'm hoping this will be decent.
Post by: pudu on November 14, 2005, 11:18:10 AM
The controller:
Overall I think they did a fairly good job with their new controller, much better then the original xbox one. The main buttons (although not analog) had a pretty good feel to them...maybe a bit small but I'm used to the Cube controller so probably just not used to it. The triggers felt very nice and smooth. The shoulder buttons felt ok and all...but I hope that they don't expect you to hold the controller with your index fingers on the shoulder buttons and your middle fingers on the triggers. I simply can't comfortably do this because my hands get really cramped. I found myself akwardly moving my index fingers between them. The "X" button was snazzy and looks to be quite useful, easily pausing the game and opening the menu. The joysticks were very smooth. Maybe too smooth though because in the CoD demo I had trouble moving my thumb small amounts due to the lack of resistance.
The interface/OS:
Very sleek and sexy. Not much to say about this except it seemed well organized and simply yet robust all at the same time. Nothing amazing but easy on the eyes and functional...can't ask for more.
The games:
CoD2 - this game was pretty awsome. It's not that the graphics were any better then the PC (they are probably "worse") but the fact that I was actually playing a game kiosk on a HDTV with widescreen was what amazed me. It kind of made me sad in a way, knowing that the Rev won't support HD or widescreen (at least not fully). Overall I would rather play the PC version with similar graphics and mouse support but the 360 version was mighty impressive and emersive.
Kameo - another rare platformer. I don't see it adding much in the way of innovation or new play mechanics, just improved visuals. The game did look pretty damn nice with the shaders and bump mapping...but I couldn't get over the fact that all it was was another platformer-type game. I found myself not caring and handed the controller over to someone else after a little while. The different animals you turn to reminded me somewhat of Majora's Mask. The control I found to be awkward. You use the main face buttons to turn into different creatures and the trigger buttons to perform actions. I have nothing against Rare but this game just didn't strike me as anything special.
What I walked away with:
After giving it a play I walked away with both excitement and dissapointment. The fresh feel of the new controller and the new technology got me excited for what the future might hold this next generation. On the other hand though, I left thinking about what Nintendo has been stressing for the longest time, innovation over horsepower. Today's play further proved to me that graphics are a plus but not all of what next gen should be all about. I mean, I played Kameo...it was in high-res and had flashy graphics but underneith it was the same old play mechanics recycled since Mario 64. It's like a really hot chick that has a terrible personality.
I'm not saying the the Rev is the only console that can bring forth new innovation because it has its new controller, what I'd like to stress is that even without that interface the developers this next time around have to really dig deep and utilize the greater horsepower in more constructive ways then purely graphics. I'm talking about physics, amount of characters on screen, AI, etc. While it would be easy for developers to simply continue on their (lazy) path of upgrading what "works", the ones that strive for more will be the ones with the potential for true greatness.
Just like with people, in the end it is what's on the inside that truely counts
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 14, 2005, 02:50:35 PM
Here is my impressions:
Controller:
This is a huge improvement over the Xbox 360 controller. Buttons were comfortable to press, analog sticks were smooth, the analog shoulder buttons were nice. My only complaint was that the top shoulder buttons were placed in a location that didn't comfortably rest around your fingers. I found myself not even knowing those buttons existed while I played. Obviously I could get used to it but...not that great.
The plastic around the controller did feel cheap. It felt like it was a 3rd party controller and not a first party controller, if that makes sense. I have a feeling that the Wireless controller that is more expensive will be made with better plastic and this wired controller is thrown together as a very cheap alternative.
The Games:
King Kong:
Very buggy demo. I can't even believe Microsoft would even put this in to showcase the 360. It was horrible. I played the demo with the T-Rex battle, and the controls were not responsive, the game slowed down, and I couldn't figure out how to do anything. It was pathetic. I had high hopes for this game, and now I know its going to be the same trashy movie franchise game as usual. Or atleast that is what the demo made it feel like.
Kameo:
This game's graphics were great, but the game and gameplay has easily been one of the most over-rated of all the Xbox games. The game plays like everyother Rare platformer. The best example of what this game feels like is: Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Slow character movement and animation. Non-intuitative controls. Dull boring fighting mechanics. Rare is very over-rated, and the only game I care about from them is Perfect Dark Zero...and the original Perfect Dark, but something tells me the sequel might be bad.
Call Of Duty:
This game was intense, it threw you into a massive battle for your life with no warning or instruction. The graphics looked great in high defination, but besides the shine it really didn't look that much better than this generation. I guess its like seeing Ghostbusters on VHS and then on DVD. It looks shiner and cleaner, but its the same movie and really just as good in either format. Also I think this demo is a horrible demo to show for the Xbox 360, because the demo is very difficult and isn't something you can jump into. It would have been much better to have an early demo of Perfect Dark Zero than this game.
Overall, I felt the potential of the system, but also felt the excitement for the system die.
The truth is, IF you play computer games, then you won't really think you are getting anything more advanced than what we have now. The best thing about the Xbox360 is the very slick controller, that is a perfect evolution of this generation of gaming.
Post by: IceCold on November 14, 2005, 03:04:52 PM
QuoteExactly....even with the original Xbox (and PS2) I felt the same thing - it's just too smooth. The Gamecube and N64 analogue sticks feel way better to me.
Maybe too smooth though because in the CoD demo I had trouble moving my thumb small amounts due to the lack of resistance.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 14, 2005, 05:20:53 PM
A close second is the Gamecube Stick. Nintendo's analog sticks just seem to have more points of variance, and you can actually FEEL where they are and what your character is doing.
Xbox 360 is 3rd place
Xbox actually did pretty good on their left analog stick, but I found the Right analog stick less than desirable.
The Sony Dual analog stick is easily the worst of the group. Sensitivity is horrible, You lose your grip easy, and the layout is just horrible.
Post by: Kairon on November 14, 2005, 06:10:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-SpangThe Sony Dual analog stick is easily the worst of the group. Sensitivity is horrible, You lose your grip easy, and the layout is just horrible.
Now in cool new Boomerang shape!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 14, 2005, 07:24:46 PM
Post by: pudu on November 14, 2005, 07:40:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
im still wondering if nintendo is going to offer us good revolution tidbits to counter the xbox360 launch... yea, mario kart looks unfreakinbelievable, but they need to tell us some good Rev. stuff pronto, or else that 360 might really take off
Nah if the supposed shortages are as bad as I've been hearing then Microsoft will have limited themselves all by themself. I think the lack of advertising and hype from MS leading up to the launch proves this. Plus I simply don't see their launch lineup in general creating any sort of mass hysteria over it or anything. If the system has as slow of a start as I think it's going to have then Nintendo (and Sony) doesn't have a whole lot to worry about for quite a while. I think it's true what Nintendo had said in the past, their true competition is Sony. As long as they either release close to Sony or do a good job of keeping the Rev. in a more positive light if Sony releases the PS3 first then I think they will do fine.
Kind of funny how little Sony and Nintendo seem to be worried over Xbox 360. I don't think it will happen but let me just say that I wouldn't be entirely supprised if what some are saying is true and the 360 falls victim to some of Dreamcasts shortcomings.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 15, 2005, 03:37:42 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 15, 2005, 03:52:09 AM
I think Nintendo has actually really seperated itself with the Revolution. It isn't going to be copied (unless it is hugely successful) and it really does create a new gaming experience and market. So Nintendo doesn't have to worry so much about Xbox 360. Nintendo will get new players because the gadget really does look and feel futuristic.
If Sony isn't worried about the Xbox 360 then they are fools. Microsoft has money and the will to completely take over markets they enter. And, Sony has been bleeding money for several years. Microsoft will be a contender this year, and getting a head start in ALL regions (despite low numbers of product) will help cement a presence.
Post by: pudu on November 15, 2005, 09:06:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Kairon: At least the boomerang shows that they may actually be working on the controller instead of assuming they had already perfected the design with the Dual Stick.
I think Nintendo has actually really seperated itself with the Revolution. It isn't going to be copied (unless it is hugely successful) and it really does create a new gaming experience and market. So Nintendo doesn't have to worry so much about Xbox 360. Nintendo will get new players because the gadget really does look and feel futuristic.
If Sony isn't worried about the Xbox 360 then they are fools. Microsoft has money and the will to completely take over markets they enter. And, Sony has been bleeding money for several years. Microsoft will be a contender this year, and getting a head start in ALL regions (despite low numbers of product) will help cement a presence.
I don't think that Sony is all that worried at the moment, especially for a competitors launch. If it turns out to be really big and gains momentum quick then yea I guess they better start to worry. I guess I'm just assuming that it will take a bit of time for the 360 momentum to really kick into high gear and start to make its competitors sweat.
As far as the difference between Nintendo and Sony and how they view the 360 I think you are right. For Nintendo they are different enough that they shouldn't be as worried as Sony, which is viewed as the only direct comeption to MS. This being said I can see why Nintendo seems to not be in any rush to get the Rev out pronto and are taking their time with it. I'm perfectly fine with this too. I'm hoping for a mid 2006 Rev launch but if it takes until the holiday season to get the system just right and the games more polished so be it. Their is something to worry about though, the longer they wait the more painfully apparent it is the GCN is dying and their image in the console market fades with it.
Post by: The Omen on November 15, 2005, 12:18:18 PM
Quote
Judging by the demo I played I would say the graphical leap between the 360 and the Xbox is only a little bit more than the leap between the PS2 and the Xbox.
Which is significant..and with only a launch game. That is already a big jump.
Quote
Well I finally tried it today, and i was left very UN impressed, I played Kong and Kameo, the controller was very nice, but the graphics didn't really make a huge leap to me, I didnt see much of a difference. I'm understanding Nintendo's stance more and more now, something different is needed. Go Revolution!
Again, you're judging a launch title. The games don't even begin truly utilizing the hardware until at least a year into the lifespan of a console.
I played it today, Call Of Duty, Madden, Kameo and Amped were all available. I would say they look pretty nice, control pretty nice, and are...pretty nice launch titles. Nothing to write home about as of yet. But nevertheless, I am thinking of taking the plunge in a month or so. It'll hold me over until the Rev.
Post by: Artimus on November 15, 2005, 02:13:23 PM
This launch title thing is an excuse for poorly designed hardware or an unimpressive leap. No generation before has had to use that excuse.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 15, 2005, 02:41:11 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 15, 2005, 02:42:02 PM
j/k.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Arbok on November 15, 2005, 02:47:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
Again, you're judging a launch title. The games don't even begin truly utilizing the hardware until at least a year into the lifespan of a console.
Star Wars: Roque Squadron? DOA3? Regardless of how far this generation has come, some of those launch titles are still on par with the best we have seen recently and it only seems more likely that that same thing will apply to this generation.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 15, 2005, 05:32:46 PM
Yes, I know we can't do photorealism and realisitic true to life animation, and lighting and such. But for the most part a good creative team can get the system to pump out visuals that closely convey their original desire for the product.
Xbox 360 proves this by not really being a huge leap.
Post by: ThePerm on November 15, 2005, 05:35:27 PM
Post by: pudu on November 15, 2005, 06:15:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Launch title or not, Super Smash Bros. Melee looks ten times better than the N64 version. MUCH MUCH more than a PS2 vs. XBOX game.
This launch title thing is an excuse for poorly designed hardware or an unimpressive leap. No generation before has had to use that excuse.
Just wanted to point out that the leap this next gen to the 360 and PS3 both require some difficult hurdles by way of devolpers having to adapt to multicore processors. I'm guessing most launch titles are only using one of the three cores in the 360's cpu. I mean imagine that with the Gamecube the launch titles were limited to 1/3 the CPU's power.
Some other things to consider:
-the gen b4 GCN was the first consoles to really push 3D graphics and it probably wasn't too hard to improve vastly upon that
-there is no usual leap in graphics taking place like earlier consoles.
2D evolution = NES -> SNES
3D evolution = N64 -> GCN -> Rev???
I think that this may be why Nintendo is trying to bring something new to the table. They may see it more like this
2D evolution = NES -> SNES
3D evolution = N64 -> GCN
VR evolution = Rev???
I understand that the Rev doesn't have VR headsets or anything but they are paving the way to the deeper control needed for a proper VR experience.
Post by: Arbok on November 15, 2005, 06:17:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
no matter what devs say game development costs will go significantly down this generation...why? They own faster more efficient hardware.
Which they will be using to produce far more complicated, and more time consuming to program, games... The only way your theory would work is if the games themselves didn't change at all from this generation, just the tools to make them improved.
Post by: ThePerm on November 15, 2005, 06:28:03 PM
Post by: pudu on November 15, 2005, 06:42:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
no matter what devs say game development costs will go significantly down this generation...why? They own faster more efficient hardware.
Which they will be using to produce far more complicated, and more time consuming to program, games... The only way your theory would work is if the games themselves didn't change at all from this generation, just the tools to make them improved.
Yep just what I was thinking. ThePerm does have a valid point though. 3d modeling and animation programs are constantly upgrading, along with the computers that run them, making the creation of the game's visuals both easier and better looking. Also what's exciting is the new dev tools like physics engines, dynamic motion synthesis software, procedural landscape generators, etc. The fact of the matter is though that there still will be a lot of work to do to take the visuals to the next level. I think that with the introduction of new and better tools and PCs it will help negate the increase in time and man power but there will still be an unavoidable increase in the cost for developing the more epic and beautiful games.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 15, 2005, 08:59:56 PM
Being able to run sloppy code (actually not because the X360 has in-order CPUs) does not outweight the added complexity of normalmaps and more detailled levels in any way. Rein, when selling the Unreal Engine as super efficient, claimed they have a cost increase of "only" 50% per game. That does not sound like costs lowering to me.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 16, 2005, 05:29:06 AM
Now, in all fairness I think Call of Duty 2 is a port, and it's also not the type of game that I find visually appealing in the first place. Lots of grey and beige. Blah. Even so, seeing it in person left me less impressed than I was before, which is pretty bad. First-gen software? I don't think that matters. I've never, ever said, "Oh, this system had ho-hum graphics in the first generation, but I'm really impressed now!" I've always been really impressed by the first-gen software, and everything after it was just a nice incremental improvement. If anything the first generation of 360 software has already desensitized us to whatever improvements the second generation might make.
Anyway, that's a silly rant. I don't think any of that makes the Xbox 360 a bad game system, but I do think it makes it an overpriced one. What am I getting for my $500 CDN?
I've also noticed that there doesn't seem to be much hype for the 360. Other than the promotion with Pepsi, I really don't see it getting the attention the Xbox did. I remember seeing Xbox floormats and standees in practically every store that sold videogames for a couple of months in advance, and there were commercials dedicated to Xbox for quite a while before launch. This time around, I have yet to see an Xbox 360 commercial on TV except for the Pepsi one. Microsoft also seems to be shying away from hyping up the games - if they can turn Halo into a humongous hit, I don't see why they can't do the same for Perfect Dark 0. I know I'm not the only person who thinks Halo is overrated, even if Perfect Dark 0 doesn't live up to the original, it should be hypable.
Very weird. I think Microsoft can cope, but I doubt this launch will be as crazy as PS2's was.
Post by: Arbok on November 16, 2005, 07:17:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I think Microsoft can cope, but I doubt this launch will be as crazy as PS2's was.
It will be, regardless, as Microsoft has cut the number of systems it is selling to such a short supply that they will sell out despite if the hype might be there or not. If the rumors of them stocking stores with big "Sold Out" signs are true, perhaps Microsoft is planning to hype the system alongside the news reporting on the 360 being completely sold out.
Post by: Zach on November 16, 2005, 12:36:40 PM
I have to agree that the 360 probably will get off to a slow start, all of my friends who are fans of the XBOX have said the same thing, they want the 360, but it is just too d@mn expensive. Then again, i am a college student, and most of us are kinda poor right now.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 16, 2005, 01:42:33 PM
Meh.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 17, 2005, 02:19:50 AM
Post by: NotSoStu on November 17, 2005, 04:05:12 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 18, 2005, 08:01:55 AM
but i need to play it, and on a real hdtv.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 18, 2005, 09:31:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stu L Tissimus
Old Rare owns. Post-Banjo-Tooie Rare hasn't made anything good.
I thought Conker was one of their best, and It's Mr. Pants and Sabre Wulf are both very good GBA titles. In terms of recent console games, though, I have to agree that the company has had a lot of trouble. It's looks like they're trying to hide PD0 from the public, and opinions on Kameo are pretty mixed.
I didn't know they only have three places to plug in wired controllers...that's definitely lame. Nothing that would stop me from buying the system, but lame nonetheless.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 18, 2005, 12:43:04 PM
Seriously, if you took out the attitude and violence, you are left with a very shallow play experience.
Rare's games always feel the same. The always feel like they are stuck in slowiness. I don't know how to explain it, except like that. I just never feel like I am moving or doing anything in Rare's more recent games.
So far I haven't seen a single reason for ME, to get an Xbox 360. However, I know several people are loving the launch lineup.
Post by: stevey on November 18, 2005, 04:00:50 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 21, 2005, 04:10:16 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175860,00.html
"Don't buy a 360"
It mentions everything that we've pointed out, but it's till a good read.
Post by: mantidor on November 21, 2005, 05:12:58 AM
That has to seriously be a joke lol irony
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 21, 2005, 08:10:02 AM
I'll say hooray for an article that stands up and says boo to crap like the xbox360, but boy do they suck at writing an article.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 21, 2005, 11:13:58 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 21, 2005, 11:19:04 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 21, 2005, 12:09:52 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 21, 2005, 12:11:33 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 21, 2005, 12:32:12 PM
I too only bring up my middle finger when necessary. It's just not polite otherwise.
I haven't seen the X360 demo in Wal-Mart or any stores at all where I live. Are there demos in Canada at all?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on November 21, 2005, 01:21:26 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on November 21, 2005, 01:24:24 PM
"In the living room itself, Xbox 360 is our centerpiece and a product that redefines what goes on there,"
---
If you buy 360, you are begging MS to begin taking control of your living room.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 21, 2005, 04:25:06 PM
Post by: Shecky on November 21, 2005, 05:29:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_hi_te/xbox360
"Gates said he's also expecting a new Xbox service called Microsoft Points, which lets people pre-pay for things like virtual armor or other game-related items, to eventually work with Windows Live, so people could use a single account to pay for offerings there, too."
Gah!
"Analyst Rob Enderle said the move to more closely link Xbox Live with Windows Live intends to bolster loyalty to Microsoft products. Microsoft 'can tie that stuff together so that you as a customer become wedded to the Microsoft platform for everything you do,' he said."
Edit: Not so subtle "hint"
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 21, 2005, 05:32:44 PM
Anyway, I mentioned this in another thread. I'm going to play my friend's 360, so i'll get some hands on impressions going afterwards.
Post by: IceCold on November 21, 2005, 08:44:22 PM
QuoteYeah, as Guitar Smasher said, Futureshop has them, and I think some other stores do too, but I'm not sure.
Are there demos in Canada at all?
Post by: Artimus on November 21, 2005, 08:58:29 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 22, 2005, 03:14:19 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 22, 2005, 03:49:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_hi_te/xbox360
"Gates said he's also expecting a new Xbox service called Microsoft Points, which lets people pre-pay for things like virtual armor or other game-related items, to eventually work with Windows Live, so people could use a single account to pay for offerings there, too."
Gah!
"Analyst Rob Enderle said the move to more closely link Xbox Live with Windows Live intends to bolster loyalty to Microsoft products. Microsoft 'can tie that stuff together so that you as a customer become wedded to the Microsoft platform for everything you do,' he said."
Edit: Not so subtle "hint"
Ohhhhh! Dave Chappelle Speaks!
Post by: wandering on December 11, 2005, 09:35:16 PM
So, I finally got around to playing a 360 at Target. And while I was expecting a less-than-spectular jump from this gen, I wasn't expecting the games to look WORSE. 360 games in hi-def look about as good as an ultra-sharp, ultra-brightly lit portrait of your grandmother. Which is to say they look terrible.
This came as a surprise to me because I had really bought into the whole HD is good(tm) thing....and good it is...for sports broadcasts. But the fact that HD will suck for fiction has kind of just come crashing home for me. I just realised that I've been looking forward to Lord of the Rings and Star Wars in high definition even though I don't wear glasses to the movie theatre because I don't like seeing all the scratches and grain.
The only thing I could see while playing Call of Duty and Kameo were the thousands of little mistakes. This is in contrast to what I saw the first time I played Rogue Leader or Super Smash Bros...which was amazing, seamless, detailed virtual worlds that made me giddy just to interact with them. And after I got home and powered up my cube....I saw that the visuals of some these cube LAUNCH games still blow me away, while the hi-def blahfest that's etched into my memory still makes me want to gag.
So, count me out of the high dollar generation. I won't be getting an HDTV anytime soon.
