Post by: Nile Boogie on October 13, 2005, 07:17:15 PM
Metriod Prime I believe is the key to the whole thing. Not only will it use the controller in new exciting ways, I also think it will push the graphical capabilities of the system to the forefront ("wow"). On a side note, I hope they don't call it Metriod Prime 3: Sub-title. That would lessen the games "revolutionary aspects "making it just another sequel. The problem I see with this is in Japan Metriod doesn't do so well, and even worst since it went first person. It may lack the universal appeal Nintendo is looking for.
Mario Party Nintendo wants pick up and (game)play this is the franchise to do it with.
So those three are my main picks so tell me what I'm missing?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 13, 2005, 07:24:38 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 13, 2005, 07:40:10 PM
i think this has actually been in development for a long t ime...i also think it will be somewhere in between XI and CC as far as what it is.
a vg system with killer control, online play, and next gen graphics
Post by: Mario on October 13, 2005, 07:45:20 PM
SSB definately, that'll be huge. Those two games alone will make it a huge launch, but to top it off I predict there's going to be Wario Ware (come on, it's perfect!), and there has to be a racing game. I'll say Wave Race, just going from its track record as a launch title.
I doubt Mario Party, because it would have to share sales with SSB, and because there's already a Mario Party game in development, Mario Party 7 for GC, and it's too early after that for one to be ready for launch.
I'm hoping for some third party surprises too. Oh yeah FFCC has been confirmed.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on October 13, 2005, 08:01:14 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 13, 2005, 08:14:10 PM
also, if we look at square..they actually know what to do as far as managing
which systems they should be on.
As square said....the market will be divided into the high end and the low end.
Post by: Artimus on October 13, 2005, 08:35:10 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 13, 2005, 09:15:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
I agree they shouldn't call it Metroid Prime 3, maybe Metroid Prime: Something or Metroid Something.
I think Retro made some statement a while back about this would be the "last of the Prime games". So I imagine the word "Prime" will be in there somwhere.
And I think I've ranted on this before but I REALLY like the idea of a Mario Party style game at launch. A title like that would surely explore the Rev contoller in a very thorough manner. Which is something that must be done in at least one all encompasing title early on.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on October 13, 2005, 09:23:01 PM
I think it was the earliest game to be confirmed (even before first party games).
Golden Sun would be awesome, but I'd rather see Camelot once again flex their creative muscles. If they can do that in the Golden Sun world, then hell...so be it.
So far confirmed:
SSB
Metriod
Camelot RPG
EA (Sports and maybe racing? Burnout anyone?)
Square-Enix something
Mario (Iwata basically said it would be ready at launch or close after)
Pretty damn good by my standards
My guesses:
FPS by some company (Zoonami?)
WaveRace (damn it! I need it!)
WarioWare
Resident Evil 5 (You just wait and see)
A music game
Pikmin
Post by: Mario on October 13, 2005, 09:31:18 PM
Quote
And I think I've ranted on this before but I REALLY like the idea of a Mario Party style game at launch. A title like that would surely explore the Rev contoller in a very thorough manner. Which is something that must be done in at least one all encompasing title early on.
Wario Ware!
Post by: Nosferat2 on October 13, 2005, 10:20:02 PM
I hope Camelot counters Elder scrools with a good turn based Rpg of their own(without blue haired characters). Give me some knights and wizards.
God forbid FFCC sees daylight on the REV.
I think The New Zelda should be a launch title for the REV. I know we have been waiting for it for the GC but ill forgive if the graphics are pumped up and gameplay is improved on the REV.
I also want a counter to Gears of War for the 360. It looks tight. Hopefully nintendo or someone else provides us with something similar...
Post by: MrMojoRising on October 13, 2005, 11:27:32 PM
If Miyamoto can also have mario ready then I think we'd be looking at a really great launch lineup.
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 13, 2005, 11:40:24 PM
Post by: Kairon on October 13, 2005, 11:50:14 PM
And I really really doubt that Metroid Prime 3 will be ready before Holidays 2006. That's assuming what? An 18 month dev cycle? Given the Rev shouldn't be a monster to work with, but we're talking about revamping the entire FPS control scheme and implementing appropriate new content...AND possibly having it ONLINE? I seriously doubt Metroid P3 would be a launch game, or that if it was it'd deliver a marquee play experience or online play.
That leaves us with Nintendo and whatever tricks they might still have up their sleeve, if any. /shrug
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on October 14, 2005, 12:35:24 AM
Think about what DS games are out now, and you can get an idea of the Revolutoin launch lineup, since Revolution and DS talks started at the same time.
[/crazy logic]
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 14, 2005, 05:35:26 AM
Metroid
Super Smash Brothers
Three great games for Nintendo to launch a system with.
Then add to the mix later the year or basically a few months later:
Mario Party
Pilot Wings
Duck Hunt
Mario Kart/any Mario Sport
F-Zero
Big end of first year game: The Legend of Zelda!!!
I want to see Nintendo pull out quality games from all their key franchises as fast as possible. I want Nintendo to start year 2 of the Revolution with mostly new IPs.
Post by: mantidor on October 14, 2005, 05:36:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
Metroid Prime: Revolution should be the name of the 3rd Prime title. And it should end the series as epically as Matrix Revolutions ended the Matrix series, with an uber final battle between the Space Pirates, Metroid prime, ing or some new creatures VS Galatic federation with Samus at the forefront, Luminoth and hopefully the Chozo.
urgh, I propose we consider a bannable offence any mention of the Revolution and that thing of a movie in the same sentence.
MP3 only needs a final confrontation as good as the one Super Metroid had. Samus isnt a troop leader, shes a bounty hunter.
Post by: ThePerm on October 14, 2005, 06:01:14 AM
Post by: Pale on October 14, 2005, 07:05:01 AM
Square has said publicly that it plans to bring FFXI to any system that can support it next gen. What that boils down to is "any system that can reasonably hold up to 8 gigs of data locally." The X-Box 360 has the announcment because we know it has large hard drive support...
If Sony announces a HD for the PS3, they will get it too.
Now Nintendo has come out and said that they want flas memory to be the storage option for the rev, which is awesome for every game other than MMOs like FFXI...
Do you think it's worth Nintendo making HD option for the system if it means the close to launch release of a big game like FFXI? It's basically like them buying another first gen title (possibly even launch) just by adding a new peripheral.
I for one, am very torn on this subject. I've had terrible issues with the Sony HD, but I've had terrible issues with the Playstation hardware in general...
Would you guys pay 50-70 dollars more for the console just for the opportunity to play games like FFXI?
I don't want to derail the topic with this, but I guess my point is, should Nintendo add a hard drive solely because it could mean more game possibilities and seal the deal on a big name close to launch title? Somehow, I don't really think so, but it is an interesting argument.
As for other launch titles...
1. They need a big name platformer in the mario universe. I wouldn't mind spin-offs like what is being talked about in the DK thread.
2. They need Smash Bros. obviously.
3. Then they need a non system seller first party title that showcases the remote. Pilotwings would be a perfect fit in my opnion.
That's all they should release. They don't want to flood the launch with AAA titles and even if Metroid is ready, they should hold off IMO.
As for third party stuff...
1. Tilt sensing Monkey Ball.. (Sega should be almost done with this now as it just makes too much sense for them to not have started it long ago.)
2. EA Sports titles (as much as I'm sick of them, they need to be there.)
3. A square enhanced port... Yeah i know, you think I'm crazy... but again, in my opinion, if there is a big Square original game, it should be held onto for later... Getting a nice port of one of the numbered FFs to be played one handed would be outstanding though and could set the pace for RPGs on the system... I would personally go with a suped up version of FFIX.
4. Throw in some UbiSoft multiplatform games and you are golden... (PoP, SC, etc.)
Post by: ThePerm on October 14, 2005, 07:33:26 AM
right now.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 14, 2005, 08:04:26 AM
Just for MMORPGs? No, I wouldn't. But then I think it's important to match the competition in game-related features. I wouldn't want to see the Rev screw itself out of potential games just because of a lack of hard drive.
The most important game for the Rev launch is a big killer app that really sells the new controller as something essential to gaming like how Super Mario 64 sold the analog stick and 3D in general. That's a lofty goal to reach but the remote SHOULD be essential to gaming, right? If it's not then Nintendo wasted their time on a stupid sparkling innovation. They SHOULD be able to make a game like that if they actually have some sort of idea of what they're doing.
The game could be Mario or Metroid or something new. It doesn't really matter but it should be the flagship title. Personally I want to see a brand new game. Sequels are all fine and good but the brand new stuff is what gets my interest. Pikmin was without a doubt my most anticipated game that was shown at the Cube's debut E3. It was new and creative and it looked like it could not have been done on the N64. Plus I think in order to sell the Rev as something new, a new franchise is needed. Nintendo is largely unfairly criticized for rehashing. Sure we know almost every Mario game is significantly different but the general public doesn't see that. They just see 8 Mario games a year. So if the Rev launches with Mario, SSB, and Metroid and nothing else then it won't look as fresh and new as it should. Many will see it as the same-old franchises from Nintendo and not the new innovative stuff it really is.
Post by: vudu on October 14, 2005, 09:07:02 AM
QuotePale, I'm not sure if you're realized this yet, but you're the only person on this board who has any interest in FFXI.
Would you guys pay 50-70 dollars more for the console just for the opportunity to play games like FFXI?
Personally, I don't really have any desire for a hard drive. It's just another item with moveable parts that can (and will) break. Give me flash memory or give me death!
Post by: Pale on October 14, 2005, 09:13:36 AM
Also, I'm not sure what you are all hoping for for FF:CC, but some of things that are standard in games of that type can be made much better with a hard drive. I'll compare it to PSO as the games are actually quite similar in mechanics. PSO had two types of customization... The way your character looks from the get go, and your silly flying mag. In most MMOs, there is another level of customization that can change whenever you want it to, and that's equipment. Armor and weapons can be set up in many different combos, all of which change the way your character looks. In the original FF:CC the only equips that you could notice were weapons (and shields on the clavats). For a truly engaging experience, people want the equipment to show up too... that creates a huge number of possible combinations and with that comes a huge increase in the number of needed models.
Conceivably, you could load these models off of the disc, but we all know what kind of load times that would mean... Imagine sitting in a party.. another member changes his hat, and your system has to spin up a disc again... and that's ignoring the fact that updates would be impossible.
So, to sum up, many peoples' dream Crystal Chronicles game is not really possible without a hard drive.
Edit: And I also want to say that I'm not condemning Ninty's choice to use flash memory. It is a GREAT decision for the vast majority of games out there. Fast and reliable... I'm just pointing out the one genre that still requires more space than flash memory is even close to supporting and people who don't realize that may expect too much from the first batch of online titles.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 14, 2005, 10:02:45 AM
Post by: Pale on October 14, 2005, 10:04:57 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on October 14, 2005, 10:20:50 AM
Post by: vudu on October 14, 2005, 10:31:14 AM
QuoteThe PS2 and forthcoming Xbox 360 versions, too? That's insane. So if you want to play this game you have to dedicate almost half your hard drive?
FFXI is currently 7.5 gigs and grows with every update.
Post by: Kairon on October 14, 2005, 10:50:28 AM
Post by: Pale on October 14, 2005, 10:50:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteThe PS2 and forthcoming Xbox 360 versions, too? That's insane. So if you want to play this game you have to dedicate almost half your hard drive?
FFXI is currently 7.5 gigs and grows with every update.
Yeah, basically.
In a sense, it could be chopped down, as part of the bloat comes from SE's band width strategy. That being that they wanted the game to function over 56k. Because of that, they store everything possible locally.
If you are at all interested, look into the model viewer program for the game as well as .dat hacks. You can do some fun stuff by moving and modifying the dat files (models). Because they are stored locally only you see the changes.
Edit: Added the quote so people knew who I was talking to.
Post by: vudu on October 14, 2005, 11:04:15 AM
Post by: Pale on October 14, 2005, 11:11:59 AM
I mean, who would want to code decisions into an already existing game on whether or not it should download stuff from the server.
The good thing about it is because HDs are so oversized for normal games, it probably won't become an issue on the X-Box...
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 14, 2005, 11:58:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
hard drives are expensive..however by next winter even flash memory will be extremely cheap. 128 mb is $19.99 right now. a gig could be 50 by next year...its $99
right now.
I got a gig now for only $50 after a $20 dollar rebate. SD cards are actually not all that expensive, especially in comaprison to some other types of flash memory(Memory Stick :thumbsdown
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 14, 2005, 12:34:24 PM
Post by: foolish03 on October 14, 2005, 03:11:34 PM
Post by: foolish03 on October 14, 2005, 03:15:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuotePale, I'm not sure if you're realized this yet, but you're the only person on this board who has any interest in FFXI.
Would you guys pay 50-70 dollars more for the console just for the opportunity to play games like FFXI?
Personally, I don't really have any desire for a hard drive. It's just another item with moveable parts that can (and will) break. Give me flash memory or give me death!
Well i have a xbox and the disc drive started to malfuntion before the hard drive gave away. Actually my HD hasnt had any problems at all. Discs are often not read. I have to push my tray in for it to close, and i have to push the button several times for it to open, but the HD works just like the first day i got it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 14, 2005, 03:34:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: foolish03
We havent seen a true Donkey kong style game in a while. While DK jungle beat was interesting i want something along the lines of DK country and DK2.
Jungle Beat was 100X better than the DKC games, and I actually like them... =P
And considering Tokyo EAD's desire to make new experiences, Donkey Kong Rev is going to be a hell of a lot closer to Jungle Beat...
Post by: bustin98 on October 14, 2005, 05:02:40 PM
That would be an awesome launch announcement.
Post by: Djunknown on October 14, 2005, 05:35:44 PM
As far as MMORPGS, I dunno. I believe that Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection's NWFC for short? selling is point is that its free. How much is FFXI now per month? Has the price gone up since its U.S debut?
Quote
Where are the non-games?
Good question. Every title mentioned so far will appeal to us. But I guess for Nintendo, our love isn't enough.. What about the non-gamer market that doesn't exist yet? If the big N is betting on them for growth, they must have something for them too...
Soooo, any ideas that will sell the Rev to non-gamers at launch?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 14, 2005, 05:43:03 PM
Quote
Good question. Every title mentioned so far will appeal to us. But I guess for Nintendo, our love isn't enough.. What about the non-gamer market that doesn't exist yet? If the big N is betting on them for growth, they must have something for them too...
Soooo, any ideas that will sell the Rev to non-gamers at launch?
How much do you want to bet that Miyamoto's new IP is being made with non-gamers in mind? (Aha, that's like making a bet that the sun will rise in the morning...)
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 14, 2005, 06:10:15 PM
Well, Pikmin wasn't really. Neither was Mario, Zelda or Donkey Kong... in fact the only one that comes to mind is Nintendogs. I don't know what sunrises you're watching but usually they're more consistent.
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 14, 2005, 06:50:26 PM
Back to the launch games: It is so hard for me to think like a non gamer. I don't know what a non-gamer game is. The first thing that comes to mind is Texas Hold 'em. Sure it's fun but I doubt it sells systems. I figured somebody smarter than me on this forum would come up with a great idea. Maybe a detective game thats more like a interactive Tv show. You know, old people love them some Colombo, Matlock and Perry Mason (I cant front I do too).
Oh I got it, the Revolution Killer App is...PilotWings American Landscape. Simply put it's just a giant jigsaw puzzle that as you put it together it takes you on a tour of that part of the country. And when you finish you have just open sky to fly as you please and some such non- gamer game stuff like that. Hell what do I know.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 14, 2005, 07:10:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Well, Pikmin wasn't really. Neither was Mario, Zelda or Donkey Kong... in fact the only one that comes to mind is Nintendogs. I don't know what sunrises you're watching but usually they're more consistent.
Well I think we can both agree that the main themes behind the GC and the Revolution are quite different, no? With Miyamoto being the one who's talked about non-gamers the most in the past year, how can you not think he's making a more non-gamer-based game? (Again, a non-gamer game doesn't just have to be fun for non-gamers...Those type of games appeal to both non-gamers and gamers alike)
Post by: zakkiel on October 14, 2005, 08:03:22 PM
QuoteOblivion isn't turn-based, and I can't possible imagine a game that would "counter" it. Certainly not in the first year after launch. It's huge, it's absolutely gorgeous, and it looks set to combine the best elements of D&D and hack-and slash computer RPGs. Toss in the Radiant system, and I think our best hope is that they port it to the Revolution. I can't think of a good reason for them not to, but they haven't announced it for anything but the 360 yet. They might just be waiting for system specs. Anyone know of any relationship between Bethesda and Microsoft that might keep this from happening?
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
I hope Camelot counters Elder scrools with a good turn based Rpg of their own(without blue haired characters). Give me some knights and wizards.
I think The New Zelda should be a launch title for the REV. I know we have been waiting for it for the GC but ill forgive if the graphics are pumped up and gameplay is improved on the REV.
Iwata has quite emphatically confirmed that TP will be on the GC.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on October 14, 2005, 09:05:18 PM
Post by: Mario on October 14, 2005, 09:55:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"How much do you want to bet that Miyamoto's new IP is being made with non-gamers in mind?"
Well, Pikmin wasn't really. Neither was Mario, Zelda or Donkey Kong... in fact the only one that comes to mind is Nintendogs. I don't know what sunrises you're watching but usually they're more consistent.
Mario and CERTAINLY Donkey Kong was. There basically WAS no gaming market to cater to then, they CREATED gamers.
Post by: Caillan on October 14, 2005, 10:39:38 PM
Quote
Mario and CERTAINLY Donkey Kong was. There basically WAS no gaming market to cater to then, they CREATED gamers.
No they didn't. The market had just dormant for a while. It had collapsed because of bad games and bad press, so there was certainly still people who liked good games out there. In America at the time, getting capital for a publisher would have been very difficult, and so it makes sense that the revival came from elsewhere. Anyway, games using that level of technology could hardly be anything but user-friendly, to the point where anyone could pick up and play them.
Post by: Kairon on October 14, 2005, 10:43:48 PM
But Cailan, I have to disagree about user friendly. TONs of oldschool games used simple control schemes but produced games that were anything BUT user friendly. Old School games make me cry. They whip me into submission. They make me feel like less of a man.
You can have a game with just a joystcik and a button, and still create pieces of trash. Otherwise Atari wouldn't have wrecked the videogame market in the first place.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 14, 2005, 10:48:05 PM
Post by: Mario on October 14, 2005, 10:58:29 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on October 14, 2005, 11:10:44 PM
Post by: Caillan on October 14, 2005, 11:10:45 PM
Post by: Kairon on October 14, 2005, 11:12:59 PM
Either way, I don't see little reason to go to the trouble of getting a harddrive attached to my console.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 15, 2005, 12:29:33 AM
Yeah, I agree there. I was just being snarky.
Post by: animecyberrat on October 15, 2005, 09:58:51 AM
1st party
Smash Bros
Mario Platformer
Original game that uses controllers features
1st Party Racing Game (realistic racer preffered but will settle for whatever is available)
1st Party Sports Game (to match whatever sport season Rv is launched durring IE Baseball game if Baseball season etc.)
Luigis Mansion Sequel
Decent catelog of Downloads right off the bat.
3rd Party
Next Mortal Kombat Game
Need For Speed Game
Relavent Sports titles that use controler well (same season as whats availabel durrring launch)
Next Sonic The Hedgehog Game
Quake or DOOM Sequels or remakes
GOOD Star Wars Lightsaber Fighting game that takes full advantage of teh controller (THIS is what will sell the system!)
Classic 3rd party games for DL (Star Wars NES/SNES games, some Mega Man games, Street Fighter games, and some other odds and ends)
A Mega Man Sequel (Nintendo should have cut a deal to get MM exclusive instead of RE I think)
Street Fighter Game
Virtue Fighter Game
Tahst what I think they need to have well balance launch, not everything needs to be ready launch day but within the first three months.
Post by: nickmitch on October 15, 2005, 10:17:46 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 15, 2005, 11:48:53 AM
The Rev controller must be utilized in as many different ways as possible early on in the system's lifespan, or a short lifespan it will have...[/yoda?]. Even if Nintendo market the living shiznit out of the Rev in the months prior to launch, people's interest will remian peaked for only so long. So Nintendo must showcase the Rev controller in as many cool, unique and PRACTICAL ways as possible within, I'd say, 6 months of system release.
Past that point Nintendo may find it much harder to show off it's new invention as the "newness" of the system will have worn off. And if all that is left is the lingering scent of Ode De' Failure then it will really be a kick in Nintendo's collective junk. They'll have to remarket the thing all over again.
It is really important for Nintendo to launch well this time. More than it ever has been before.
Post by: animecyberrat on October 15, 2005, 12:32:40 PM
Post by: IceCold on October 15, 2005, 08:33:19 PM
Post by: Nosferat2 on October 15, 2005, 10:33:00 PM
Post by: wandering on October 15, 2005, 10:34:08 PM
1)An amazing, jaw-dropping new non-gamer focused new Miyamoto IP (the killer app)
2)A mature new franchise that either is, or exists in addition to, a Retro game, and either is, or exists in addition to, an fps (the "Halo killer")
3)Mario! (and Luigi, too)
4)a demo for a big upcomming release (i.e. metroid or zelda)
5)a good Star Wars game, that either is, or exists in addition to, a game where you wield the rev controller like a sword
6) generic third party crap (Spiderman 5: The Movie: The game, Xtreme Nightime Racing 5000, O.J. Simpson Football 2006, etc)
7) One or more of the following: Wave Race, PilotWings, F-Zero, Monkey Ball, Feel the Magic: Revolution
That's all I can think of.
Quote
Would you guys pay 50-70 dollars more for the console just for the opportunity to play games like FFXI?
Well, I'd probably buy the system even if it was $400
....but, putting that aside, an expensive hardrive is completley unecessary, especially considering that the flash memory is probably upgradible and a hard-drive add-on could be sold if absolutley necessary. (With that said, I wouldn't mind it if the system launched with a little more memory than 512 mib - which seems like it would barely be enough for game saves + downloads, and wholly inadequate for games that might want to explore retaining the game-state without regenerating or reseting anything. Personally, I'd like to see the system launch with at least 1 gig.)
edit
Quote
Originally posted by: Nile Boogie
You know, old people love them some Colombo, Matlock and Perry Mason (I cant front I do too).
You don't like Colombo? Tsk, tsk. Peter Falk is awesome.
Post by: Nosferat2 on October 15, 2005, 10:44:00 PM
I knew oblivion wasnt turned based, hence my not getting a 360. I might have bought one if it(oblivian) was turned based. I was expressing my hope that the Rev will have something similar is size and scope ( as you described it) but with turned based battles. Hack is slash is incredibly boring for RPG's. Bladurs Gate and FFCC(if you consider it an RPG) were hack in slash and they both royally sucked, HARD.
We all know Twilight Pricess is on GC, i was just saying that Nintendo should reconsider.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 15, 2005, 11:26:02 PM
Post by: stevey on October 16, 2005, 03:56:12 AM
IWATA has said at IWATATON "We made a promise to gamecube owner that tp will be on the gamecube." because he dosen't want to piss off cube owner so they wont buy a 360 and gettig back on topic nintendo will have mario128, MP3, and ssbO but that not enough nintendo must have smaller game to fill the gap I think F-zero, pikmin, some kind of RPG, and StarFox are needed to show off the revolution cotroller.
Post by: zakkiel on October 16, 2005, 10:52:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
Zakkiel
I knew oblivion wasnt turned based, hence my not getting a 360. I might have bought one if it(oblivian) was turned based. I was expressing my hope that the Rev will have something similar is size and scope ( as you described it) but with turned based battles. Hack is slash is incredibly boring for RPG's. Bladurs Gate and FFCC(if you consider it an RPG) were hack in slash and they both royally sucked, HARD.
We all know Twilight Pricess is on GC, i was just saying that Nintendo should reconsider.
Difference of interest, I guess. Turn-based RPGs bore me to tears. If I'm gonna hit someone with a sword, I want to feel like I'm hitting someone with a sword, not delivering instructions to a robot on pause. If the calculations behind choosing a particular move in turn-based games were more complex, it might be interesting to me. I should say, however, that's it's just not very intelligent to say Baldur's Gate sucked hard when so many people regard it as one of the classics. The only criterion for how good a game is how much people enjoy playing it. Hordes of people enjoy playing Baldur's Gate (and Diablo II and Fable, for that matter), so why not just say that kind of game doesn't appeal to you? Heck, Oblivion combat as described is similar to Zelda, in conception if not specifics. You plan to tell me that Zelda sucks?
Post by: Don'tHate742 on October 16, 2005, 12:32:46 PM
The REV controller needs to prove that it is better in many different situations and applications when compared to the "classic" controller. It would be ideal if all genres were represented at launch, but that is wishful thinking.
So instead of trying to represent all the genres at launch, they could settle with respresenting the more important ones first.
Post by: Nosferat2 on October 16, 2005, 10:15:15 PM
By no means does Zelda suck. But i do not consider Zelda an RPG in my sense of the genre. Zelda is an action adventure game which i think is different from a traditional RPG. Hack n slash is great in a hack in slash game. Hence both zelda and prince of persia are amongst my favorite games and is why my next game is Spartan: Total Warrior. Zelda and POP fighting is different from the fighting in Baldurs gate and FFCC. The former two are much more fun for some reason. I think its more dynamic and allows for more movements as opposed to the latter two, which you just stand there and hack away until you or the enemy dies.
IF Oblivan can create a Zelda or POP fighting system then it might turn out to be a good game. Ill check it out when it comes out.
BTW your right about Baldurs gate. I guess there are people who like that game, but i was expressing my opinion. And i was disappointed in that game as well as FFCC. to each his own...
Post by: Artimus on October 16, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
But Zelda is definitely not an RPG. No points of any kinds. Action-adventure game is what it is!
Post by: mjbd on October 23, 2005, 10:15:37 AM
Post by: Kairon on October 23, 2005, 05:46:04 PM
Launching with a Mario party title and an updated Mario Paint would be keen.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: RABicle on October 23, 2005, 08:40:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
Mantidor, i didnt mean to suggest that Samus lead troops. I would like her to join in the fray, with me at the contols. I think that would be cool, especially with a showdown between samus and Dark samus right in the mist of this huge war. You say Samus is a bounty hunter, just think how much bounty hunting you can do in a huge war. Thats alot of heads.
I beleive the lone soldier element is what makes Metroid such an amazing game. It's haunting being all alone. Nintendo should simply develop a whole new game featureing new characters for what you're suggesting.
Post by: cubist on October 23, 2005, 11:15:22 PM
On topic...Nintendo needs to make use of their new controller. I remember hearing Miyamoto responding to a reporter about Kid Icarus (sorry no source)...and he asked the reporter whether or not we would like to see them translate this title (20 years later). I think Nintendo can really show the use of this "revolutionary" controller with a game like Kid Icarus. The use of the various flying maneuvers for the controller would come in handy. AND...If they do bring this back from videogame limbo...they should drop the "Kid" from the title and make it much more mature on a Zelda: Twilight Princess level. A launch game like this would kick ass alongside Metroid Dread and the new Mario.
Post by: wandering on October 24, 2005, 12:14:51 AM
Quote
AND...If they do bring this back from videogame limbo...they should drop the "Kid" from the title and make it much more mature on a Zelda: Twilight Princess level.
Eh- enough with this mature stuff already. We don't need every game ever to be cool/dark/mature.
Post by: MrMojoRising on October 24, 2005, 01:33:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
You could have a game that involves an epic war while still being a lonely adventure.Quote
AND...If they do bring this back from videogame limbo...they should drop the "Kid" from the title and make it much more mature on a Zelda: Twilight Princess level.
Eh- enough with this mature stuff already. We don't need every game ever to be cool/dark/mature.
Quote
Stupid xbox/ps2 fanboy says:
Yes you do
Post by: Ian Sane on October 24, 2005, 10:40:26 AM
While that makes sense I think it would also be important to represent at least one niche genre in the launch as well. The "important" genres are going to be represented on all three consoles. One advantage the PS2 has over the Cube and Xbox is that it has the hardcore genres and sub-genres locked up. These are things like 2D fighting games, shmups, and strategy RPGs. They're not the types of games that sell tons of consoles to the mainstream but they do sell consoles nonetheless. Hardcore gamers buy the PS2 because of games like these. They don't have any specific loyality to Sony nor are they impressed by MTV-style glitz. They get PS2 because they want to play King of Fighters and know that the Cube is not even an option for that type of game. So the Rev can attract some niche fanbases if they establish some of these more niche genres early on and that can help pad their userbase. These groups would probably be pretty interested in Nintendo's games as well since they appreciate gameplay.
The Cube wasn't known as being THE console for any genres. Even the N64 was clearly the platformers, first person shooter and wrestling game console for its time and that made sure that fans of these genres were on board even if they weren't Nintendo fans. So it's important that the Rev establish some genres early on so that the Rev is THE console for those types of games.
Post by: IceCold on October 24, 2005, 10:45:19 AM
FPSes, RPGs, RTSes, Adventure games? Controller makes it possible for every single one of these genres to be far and away the best on the Rev. And don't forget the classic Nintendo Action-Adventures.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 24, 2005, 12:18:05 PM
DS is the non-game genre portable. I guess it's the doctor or lawyer game system as well.
Post by: mjbd on October 24, 2005, 03:03:01 PM
Post by: Kairon on October 24, 2005, 03:29:51 PM
Of course, you understand that the Rev could never become the platform for FPS'. Nintendo has virtually no tradition of competitive deathmatch FPS', and Microsoft has already claimed kingship in this genre because they're going to launch Halo 3 at precisely the moment when they can do the most damage to the competition.
And although the revolution controller teaser obviously suggests that the Rev would be perfect for party games, this is a segment that Nintendo already has a significant hold on.
Personally, I wonder if the Revolution could launch with Mario Paint and become a console known for allowing users to express their creativity and design their own assets, and the console upon which the online community has the most meaningful interaction: not just a community of deathmatches, but also a community to exchange Mario paint creations or through which Animal Crossing players can interact.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on October 24, 2005, 06:03:05 PM
Quote
Of course, you understand that the Rev could never become the platform for FPS'. Nintendo has virtually no tradition of competitive deathmatch FPS'
Goldeneye? Perfect Dark?
Post by: Kairon on October 24, 2005, 07:41:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
Of course, you understand that the Rev could never become the platform for FPS'. Nintendo has virtually no tradition of competitive deathmatch FPS'
Goldeneye? Perfect Dark?
Rare? Rare? Microsoft?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on October 24, 2005, 09:48:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
Of course, you understand that the Rev could never become the platform for FPS'. Nintendo has virtually no tradition of competitive deathmatch FPS'
Goldeneye? Perfect Dark?
Rare? Rare? Microsoft?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
...which has nothing to do with whether a Nintendo console could become the platform for FPS. Whether or not Nintendo can develop the games in house (which I think they should definitely attempt, but some strongly disagree) it can certainly offer far and away the best platform for FPSs in the console market and they can find a great second-party relationship to support that. I would like to see a version of Geist that actually fulfilled the promise of the premise, for instance. I think it could become a huge phenomenon if they moved away from Quake-like deathmatch and into more sophisticated modes.
Actually, since this is the "dream launch" thread, I'll elaborate a bit on that. Geist 2 should feature multiplayer modes that have you
a) Conduct a free-for-all in a war zone, starting as ghosts. Ghosts cannot see other ghosts. If you behave too suspiciously while possessing someone, you make soldiers on the same side as the guy you possessed suspicious, and they might open fire on you. As well, another player watching you would be alerted (you could tell what NPCs are possessed while in ghost mode, but not when you yourself are possessing someone). Players would thus have to focus their play on staying under cover while identifying possessed NPCs and managing enemy troops. You could figure out what NPCs are possessed by seeing strange behavior, by realizing that another ghost is trying to possess that NPC and waiting for it to be successful, or getting very close to the NPC(would set off a rumble pattern).
b) Somewhat like a), but now in a team game where you try to defeat the opposing army. You do not have to scare NPCs on your side in order to possess them, but you still have to for enemy NPCs. There could be a variety of victory conditions, depending on the level, such as take the position, capture the [object], etc.
c)Provide spectral support to an unsuspecting agent assaulting a fortress. We're all familiar with FPSs featuring the Lone Hero who takes on the Fortress of Evil and slaughters the bad guys. How he does this is left unexplained. Now, you and your teammates get to be the explanation, as you frantically race to possess and kill guards before they can overwhelm the hero on his suicidal mission.
d)Assassinate. One team tries to kill a selected NPC by possessing his guards, and the other tries to stop them. Both teams are ghosts. Ghosts cannot see ghosts from other teams. The defending team cannot possess anyone, but they can spot possessed guards and try to kill them with energy attacks. If they succeed before the possessing player can leave the body, then the defending team scores a point. If the attacking team succeeds in killing the critical guy, they score a point. Note that many of the guards would be spread out; some might be patrolling, while others would be providing sniper cover from a distance.
For all these modes except b) you have to scare the NPCs to possess them. This is a game I would love to see launch with the Rev (impossible, I know) or come out in the first six months after launch (also fantastically unlikely). The concept of Geist has so much multiplayer potential, and so little implementation.
Post by: Kairon on October 24, 2005, 11:06:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
Of course, you understand that the Rev could never become the platform for FPS'. Nintendo has virtually no tradition of competitive deathmatch FPS'
Goldeneye? Perfect Dark?
Rare? Rare? Microsoft?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
...which has nothing to do with whether a Nintendo console could become the platform for FPS. Whether or not Nintendo can develop the games in house (which I think they should definitely attempt, but some strongly disagree) it can certainly offer far and away the best platform for FPSs in the console market and they can find a great second-party relationship to support that. I would like to see a version of Geist that actually fulfilled the promise of the premise, for instance. I think it could become a huge phenomenon if they moved away from Quake-like deathmatch and into more sophisticated modes.
Actually, since this is the "dream launch" thread, I'll elaborate a bit on that. Geist 2 should feature multiplayer modes that have you
a) Conduct a free-for-all in a war zone, starting as ghosts. Ghosts cannot see other ghosts. If you behave too suspiciously while possessing someone, you make soldiers on the same side as the guy you possessed suspicious, and they might open fire on you. As well, another player watching you would be alerted (you could tell what NPCs are possessed while in ghost mode, but not when you yourself are possessing someone). Players would thus have to focus their play on staying under cover while identifying possessed NPCs and managing enemy troops. You could figure out what NPCs are possessed by seeing strange behavior, by realizing that another ghost is trying to possess that NPC and waiting for it to be successful, or getting very close to the NPC(would set off a rumble pattern).
b) Somewhat like a), but now in a team game where you try to defeat the opposing army. You do not have to scare NPCs on your side in order to possess them, but you still have to for enemy NPCs. There could be a variety of victory conditions, depending on the level, such as take the position, capture the [object], etc.
c)Provide spectral support to an unsuspecting agent assaulting a fortress. We're all familiar with FPSs featuring the Lone Hero who takes on the Fortress of Evil and slaughters the bad guys. How he does this is left unexplained. Now, you and your teammates get to be the explanation, as you frantically race to possess and kill guards before they can overwhelm the hero on his suicidal mission.
d)Assassinate. One team tries to kill a selected NPC by possessing his guards, and the other tries to stop them. Both teams are ghosts. Ghosts cannot see ghosts from other teams. The defending team cannot possess anyone, but they can spot possessed guards and try to kill them with energy attacks. If they succeed before the possessing player can leave the body, then the defending team scores a point. If the attacking team succeeds in killing the critical guy, they score a point. Note that many of the guards would be spread out; some might be patrolling, while others would be providing sniper cover from a distance.
For all these modes except b) you have to scare the NPCs to possess them. This is a game I would love to see launch with the Rev (impossible, I know) or come out in the first six months after launch (also fantastically unlikely). The concept of Geist has so much multiplayer potential, and so little implementation.
I said that Nintendo has virtually no tradition for competitive deathmatch and you're forgetting that this is what modern FPS' are about. Halo 2, Half Life/Counter Strike, Quake, Unreal, these FPS kings are remembered today because of their simple unadulterated deathmatch mode.
The only Nintendo branded FPS' are Metroid Prime, which doesn't play AT ALL like an FPS and is instead a first person ADVENTURE title, and Geist, which borrows directly from FPS gameplay but plays more directly like a puzzle title itself. Neither of these games can truly be considered FPS' in the eyes of true hardcore FPS fans, it's ridiculous to even think so.
But anyways, let's assume that Nintendo even hopes to leverage these properties to pursue the FPS market. Metroid Prime 2 showed that Metroid Prime's FPA style gameplay can be converted to deathmatch form, but that it simply lacks the draw of real adrenaline-pumping FPS' like Halo. In fact, this is why as awesome as yoiur suggestions for Geist 2 are, I doubt that they'd have any impact on the market at all. Metroid 2 already offered a more complex version of PvP OTHER than deathmatches and King-of-the-hill and CTF and it simply never caught on: FPS players have spoken and they want hardcore, non-revolutionary deathmatches and team deathmatches. They want Halo 3 and then after that, more Halo 3.
And Geist..well... as much as I must credit N-Space for their work, Geist was a flawed game in terms of gameplay and game control that would pale in comparison to the same standards as today's top notch FPS'. Besides, Geist wasn't really designed as an FPS at all, it was a puzzle game first and foremost.
Simply put, Nintendo is stuck with Metroid, which has NEVER played like a FPS (in fact, we're still waiting for Hunters on the DS more than a year after the demo!), and they're stuck with N-Space, whose ability to create a title to compete with a Halo 3 quality game is highly suspect.
Even though the Revolution controller is perfect for the FPS genre, neither Nintendo nor their second parties has a chance to make any inroads in the genre either through lack of experience, lack of appropriate intellectual properties, or both.
Nintendo's only hope to make a name for itself in the FPS genre with the revolution is for a third party to come in and develop a FPS for the Rev exclusively. This generally does not happen unless that third party is bought up ala Bungie: no third party is going to pour Halo 3 type money into a game that will only be on the Revolution and cannot be ported to the PS3 and X360. I even doubt that there are any companies out there fit to compete in the top tiers of FPS development who aren't already competing, or gearing up to compete on their own without being so desperate as to seek Nintendo's backing.
I see no reason to be optimistic about FPS' on the Revolution at this point: this situation is completely at the mercy of third parties who have the ability and experience in this area that Nintendo lacks.
I say that instead of aiming to become established in the FPS genre off the bat, the Revolution should aim at establishing a name for itself within 6-12 months as the home for arcade-style Time Crisis-esque games. These games are basically slightly evolved versions of Duck Hunt, and their simplicity of concept and socially cooperative nature actually have a very broad appeal. I've watched my younger 10-12-14 year old cousins play Dino Crisis at arcades, and these were girls playing!
FPS games wouldn't be able to pull these people in beause of their innate hardore competitive nature that would repel casual players and beause of their need for complex, non-casual 3D spatial awareness and tactical thinking. But games like Duck Hunt, Dino Crisis and that-firefighting-game-sega-made could.
This is what the Revolution was built for after-all: pulling in the people who would play games except for the fact that the entire scene has become too hardcore for them. The entire FPS genre has already become hardcore and Nintendo would be facing a huge uphill battle against Halo 3 and whatever game Sony spends its money on. But corner the market on arcade-style easy-pickup Time Crisis type games and the Revolution actually has a good shot at establishing itself at something.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on October 25, 2005, 07:02:23 AM
And since they've made frequent mention of how the rev controller is perfect for fpses, I have little doubt that REV fpses are in the works.
As for the competition....Halo is the mother of all console fpses right now, sure, but, really, ONE franchise that doesn't even come close to touching the PC greats isn't what I'd call unbeatable competition. Nintendo could mop the floor with Halo with an awesome new exclusive fps that makes good use of the Rev controller.
edit spelling
Post by: Ian Sane on October 25, 2005, 08:07:50 AM
Beating Halo is not that hard because Halo is not that good. It doesn't even have bots. Dual wielding which was in Goldeneye back in 1997 was a promoted feature in Halo 2. Halo is popular because there isn't really anything else like it on consoles. The FPS genre is always weak on consoles so often just being okay is good enough to be considered a big deal. The first Turok game was huge when it was released because at the time games like that just weren't on consoles. It wouldn't be that hard to make a better console FPS than Halo. And Nintendo doesn't even really have to make an FPS that kills Halo. At the very least they can make a good FPS that keeps Rev owners from buying an X360 to get their FPS fix. They can "cancel out" competing exclusives by offering something similar. That doesn't sell systems but it at least keeps the existing userbase happy.
Things can turn around in a generation however and there's no assurance of who is going to be the strongest in what genre. On the N64 Nintendo was the absolute king of 3D platformers. The Cube however was not the king of the platformer. Aside from Super Mario Sunshine it didn't have much of the genre. The PS2 was the king of platformers thanks to Jak, Ratchet & Clank, and Sly Cooper. You would never guess that sort of change ahead of time but it happened. So MS might have Halo and Perfect Dark but you never know. They could flub on a big FPS while Nintendo totally nails it on a different FPS and the tables could turn.
Post by: couchmonkey on October 26, 2005, 06:19:25 AM
I like Kairon's idea of releasing arcade shooters such as Time Crisis, but I see no reason why it should ignore the FPS genre while it's at it. Why let go of a genre that the system could do a far superior job of (compared to other consoles)? Of course, Ninendo may not become the "King" of the console FPS, I agree with Kairon that that would be a hard task, but I also agree with Ian that Nintendo can at least offer an alternative to the 360 lineup. I'd rather have a couple of good games in many genres than 30 good games in two or three genres. That's the problem with Xbox, in my opinion - tons of FPSs and racing and sports games, not much else.
Of course the other question is, who's going to make a Revolution FPS? I don't think Nintendo has much interest in it. Perhaps Retro or NST would be interested in the genre...I'd actually really like to see Retro work on something other than Metroid, and I think they could pull of an interesting FPS...but does Retro have time to work on two games? And if not, would a new FPS from them in 2008 be too little too late? I'd like to see Nintendo go after Timesplitters, but it probably doesn't want to tick off EA.
Post by: Artimus on October 26, 2005, 08:27:02 AM
Post by: Hawkeye_a on October 30, 2005, 07:59:54 PM
Super Smash Brothers:Revolution
Metroid Prime III
Shadow the hedgehog
King Kong
Final Fantasy:CC
Rogue Squadron 5
At least ONE sports gamefrom EA
Nintendo needs to have at least one game in each of the major genres at launch to appeal to almost everyone.
