Post by: Don'tHate742 on September 19, 2005, 07:37:08 AM
Anyway, Click Here.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 19, 2005, 09:06:03 AM
) it seems overly positive, minus Dave Perry who is a littel butt hurt that Nintendo did something similar to what he wanted but didn't let him have any input as to how it was done. He also seemed a little pissed that he had to "fight his grandparents off of it(remote contoller)" which sound like a good thing to me, unless he meant he wasn't etting the loving attention that every young man needs from his family...Quote
After toying around with this Revolution remote control, and after fighting my grandparents off it, my prediction is that people will be looking to buy a "normal" controller to plug in.
So thanks Nintendo for trying. I actually respect the effort a lot!
People that know me, know I love big thinking and I LOVE innovation, but I still dream of the day when hardware manufactures stop trying to surprise game developers and actually invite a group of them to brainstorm on the hardware.
It would be a great marketing scoop for them (being designed by the top ten game designers in the world), but it would also deliver a bloody cool console / controller.
Oh well, just five more years and we can try again.
Post by: Artimus on September 19, 2005, 09:11:32 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 19, 2005, 09:27:12 AM
(THE PLANK WITH YE)Michael Ancel's quote on the other hand is making me grin ear to ear...
Post by: couchmonkey on September 19, 2005, 09:30:23 AM
However, he may be right about scaring away landlubbers after they see the array of attachments, including the traditional controller shell. Suddenly it's just as complicated as any other controller and then some.
Post by: ThePerm on September 19, 2005, 09:31:04 AM
one good thing is that i think revolution will get alot of pc ports....possible improved ones.
This controller is liek perfect for half-life
next month is online-ton
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 19, 2005, 09:32:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Michael Ancel's quote on the other hand is making me grin ear to ear...
Quote
Michel Ancel
Game Designer, Ubisoft
Creator of Rayman, BG&E and King Kong
I feel just like a child with a new toy, opening millions of new doors of possibilities. More than an improvement, this way of playing is creating a new dimension. It’s simple, when Nintendo unveils its hardware, every member of the team starts imagining crazy ideas. It’s opening their minds. The fact of adding 3D gestures as the way of communicating with the game is just the perfect kind of innovation that can bring new games to new gamers. To me, it can bring the consoles what the mouse brought to the PC at it time. It’s a 3D pointer with rotation information! Now, you're going to handle virtual objects, make recognition signs. It’s closer to the way we act in real world, that’s why it’s going to be mass market. I’m sure that people will go crazy given the ability to interact so easily with virtual worlds. I’m just mad about it!
All good news indeed
Post by: PaLaDiN on September 19, 2005, 09:44:00 AM
I want to hear what Shinji Mikami thinks.
Post by: Caliban on September 19, 2005, 09:50:47 AM
Don'tHate742 : I'm actually surprised someone actually used the acronym. I made NRC because it was just plain unrealistic to use a word like wand.
Post by: ThePerm on September 19, 2005, 09:57:30 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on September 19, 2005, 09:57:39 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 19, 2005, 10:01:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Yeah, except Ancel's last game was BG&E which sold on a level well below its quality.Quote
had to fix your last statement, how many times do I have to tell you to take your medicine before posting on the boards, I can't always be here to correct you
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 19, 2005, 10:02:47 AM
Quote
Yeah, except Ancel's last game was BG&E which sold on a level with its quality.
Cuddle me woodshavings! I'm throwing ye in the brig fer that!
Overall, these quotes are makin' me smile, but unless they pull through with it their words are worth about as much as me booty...
Post by: Ian Sane on September 19, 2005, 10:11:03 AM
Ask what Silicon Knights thinks of this. THAT would be interesting.
Seriously though I want to know what Capcom, Namco and Konami think. And I don't just mean Kojima saying it looks cool. I want confirmation of serious support. Konami is a great developer and they totally dicked the Cube around. Their opinion is more important than pretty much anyone else's. I want to know if they're back.
This is mostly "looks cool, but the board decides what games I make anyway so my opinion doesn't matter."
Lorne Lanning isn't even making games anymore. Didn't Oddworld quit the business to go into movies or something?
Post by: PaLaDiN on September 19, 2005, 10:14:40 AM
Somebody needs to interview the people who actually matter quick before they can couch their impressions in vague noncommital lingo.
Post by: ThePerm on September 19, 2005, 10:15:37 AM
Post by: Arbok on September 19, 2005, 10:22:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Seriously though I want to know what Capcom, Namco and Konami think.
Arrr, Arr!. But alas, those be Japanese developers, and all t' praise we be hearin' be from t' US (and mostly lackluster) counterparts. Speakin' for meself, I care more about Namco then any o' t' others.
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 19, 2005, 10:24:19 AM
It would be a great marketing scoop for them (being designed by the top ten game designers in the world), but it would also deliver a bloody cool console / controller."
Even if they did, I don't imagine he'd be invited. Hell, they should just so they can deflate his ridiculous ego.
Good news all around, but I don't really play any of their games. I'm also more interested in hearing from companies like Silicon Knights and Capcom.
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 19, 2005, 10:26:39 AM
Quote
That support is worthless.
You did sort of make up for this with the contradicition in the next sentance of your post, but PLEASE don't say things like this anymore
I mean, you rant all night and all day about how the Rev NEEDS all of these devs to survive, and I don't like people who make hypocrative statements just to cater to one particular post is hypocrative a word?
Post by: ThePerm on September 19, 2005, 10:33:18 AM
Post by: trip1eX on September 19, 2005, 10:52:10 AM
ONe thing is my mind has been clear all along and that is 3d gaming worlds on the console need a more intuitive and natural and smooth and precise interface.
Post by: Famicom on September 19, 2005, 11:50:31 AM
Post by: dmanjdb on September 19, 2005, 12:25:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
of the developers section(who cares about the media and analystQuote
After toying around with this Revolution remote control, and after fighting my grandparents off it, my prediction is that people will be looking to buy a "normal" controller to plug in.
So thanks Nintendo for trying. I actually respect the effort a lot!
People that know me, know I love big thinking and I LOVE innovation, but I still dream of the day when hardware manufactures stop trying to surprise game developers and actually invite a group of them to brainstorm on the hardware.
It would be a great marketing scoop for them (being designed by the top ten game designers in the world), but it would also deliver a bloody cool console / controller.
Oh well, just five more years and we can try again.
For a guy who only good game is Earthworm Jim, that's a stupid thing to say.
BTW.
Quote
Fair point, but if they honestly have a problem with too many buttons, then this solves that too. For example, on the faceplate that comes with a simple game, they could actually get rid of all unused buttons by not replicating them. If however I want a more complicated game with 10 buttons and a throttle slider on the faceplate for a Mech game, no problem.
This solution covers many needs.
The faceplate can also contain artwork (for that game) and tips, like "FIRE" written under the fire button. Trust me, that will help newbie gamers!
Faceplates???
That like taking back to the intellivision days.
Also his impression were wayyyyy too long.
Post by: Zach on September 19, 2005, 12:46:22 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 19, 2005, 12:56:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Zach
yeah, lol the faceplate idea is really bad, it brings up a lot of questions too, like what happens if you lose one, what does that do to the portability of the games (with just disks, you can put them in cd cases), and then a developer would have to pack four faceplates with a four player game (making for a TON of faceplates to produce $$$, a lot to carry around, and a bigger box for the games to come in.)
I don't think he really thought that plan through, and thats why Nintendo didn't go to him for input.
Nintendo'd DPD covers basically anything you can think of, and if more buttons or more conventional control is needed, thats have it covered with a more traditional shell (which will hopefully have as many buttons as the PS3).
Post by: mantidor on September 19, 2005, 04:38:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Famicom
If it got Tallarico to say something that wasn't negative about a Nintendo product, the Revolution must be the most awesome thing to happen in the history of gaming.
He did? O_o... I mean, he didnt? O_o
Post by: ThePerm on September 19, 2005, 04:50:53 PM
but....he'll prolly be all over it whenever the music games come out
Post by: Galford on September 19, 2005, 07:57:52 PM
No offense, but Square-Enix is the king-maker in Japan.
I want to know they think.
PS - Comments about FF:CC2 and FF11 don't count.
Post by: ThePerm on September 19, 2005, 08:04:42 PM
Post by: Mario on September 19, 2005, 08:13:06 PM
Quote
Seriously though I want to know what Capcom, Namco and Konami think. And I don't just mean Kojima saying it looks cool. I want confirmation of serious support. Konami is a great developer and they totally dicked the Cube around. Their opinion is more important than pretty much anyone else's. I want to know if they're back.
Kojima called the GC a kids toy and didn't praise it at all though, this is a huge step forward.
Post by: Renny on September 20, 2005, 02:56:22 AM
Post by: joshnickerson on September 20, 2005, 05:49:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
it seems overly positive, minus Dave Perry who is a littel butt hurt that Nintendo did something similar to what he wanted but didn't let him have any input as to how it was done.
Dave Perry hasn't made a decent game since Earthworm Jim... oh wait, that game sucked too. So I guess that's enough experience to make him an invaluable resource to a company that has been making games much longer than he has and with a much higher success margin. Pleh.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on September 20, 2005, 07:58:07 PM
Quote
Revolution controller has all the functionality of the Dreamcast fishing rod, but how will it adjust to racers, shooters, hack 'n' slashers, and platformers?
Answer: Quite brilliantly, dousche
edit: though i will say that it looks to be a lot more comfortable than the TripleShock
Post by: Artimus on September 21, 2005, 04:08:26 AM
And you guys say Matt is bad.
Post by: Renny on September 21, 2005, 07:39:46 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on September 21, 2005, 07:43:25 AM
but.. so many of them are graphics whores that they'll have a shiny new x360 in like, 2 months
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 21, 2005, 01:30:10 PM
QuoteGamesIndusry.biz
Microsoft's Peter Moore praises Nintendo's Revolution controller
Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz at the Tokyo Games Show, Xbox VP Peter Moore has praised Nintendo's "innovation with the new [Revolution] controller", and reiterated the need for the industry to grow into new markets.
"I want to give kudos for Nintendo for its attempt at innovation with the new controller," Moore commented, saying that the new device would -"bring people in that, as Iwata-san said, are either lapsed gamers or gamers that are intimidated by the complexity of the controller."
Quote
Sony's David Jaffee (GodOfWar) praises Nintendo's Revolution controller
His blog entry:
lotsa folks asking what I think about
Revolution....the quick hit is: I like it, can't wait to play with
it....worried- as a player- it could be a novelty that gets old...but
Nintendo is not dumb and they must know the whole 'novelty burnout' is
a risk so they are prob. doing all they can to make sure that doesn't
happen...I think it's a great idea....just like I thought it was a
great idea when Phil Harrison used the magic wand at GDC a few years
back...hmmm....maybe Miyamoto was in the audience then?
Post by: mantidor on September 21, 2005, 01:45:52 PM
Post by: Caliban on September 21, 2005, 01:54:04 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on September 22, 2005, 08:09:31 PM
Quote
Also, I'm sure there will be enough buttons to play whatever game you're playing. At no point will you be playing a game and say, "whoops, I've run out of buttons.
Post by: PaLaDiN on September 22, 2005, 08:45:52 PM
I want to know if the cursor points exactly where you're aiming or if it's like a mouse cursor or what.
Post by: BigJim on September 22, 2005, 09:36:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Hmmm...
I want to know if the cursor points exactly where you're aiming or if it's like a mouse cursor or what.
I'm pretty sure the way it works is that the controller and the positioning bar above or below the TV creates a virtual triangle. As the controller moves, its distance from the 2 sensors on the bar changes, and that's how it follows positioning.
It's not the same thing, but think of how an optical mouse works... it detects basic forward/backward/left/right movement. Add distance perception and then you've got a ghetto example. It was the closest thing I could think of at 2 AM.
Post by: PaLaDiN on September 22, 2005, 10:00:44 PM
Post by: BigJim on September 22, 2005, 10:15:46 PM
The game software would be made smart enough to know when the cursor reaches the edge... and then react accordingly (if necessary).
Post by: PaLaDiN on September 22, 2005, 11:16:25 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 22, 2005, 11:17:52 PM
Based on the impressions, it's apparent the sensing system knows/calculates (1) Angles that deviate from a neutral/home position (2) Position(s) in space (3) Where the remote is pointing (a straightforward method could involve the position of the front end + the position of the back end of the remote, with 2 points defining a line in space).
So now we have options. We can have it act like a laserpointer/lightgun, where the game cares about what the [tampon] is pointing at. If we point off the screen, the cursor goes offscreen. If we keep the cursor inside the screen, then it's like a mouse cursor in the 2D-traversal Windows desktop GUI sense... manipulated like a laser pointer.
Then we might have the FPS-mouse sense, where if one holds the controller and spins in place, it would be analogous to rolling your mouse in one direction (left/right). In both cases, the camera spins in place, and the monitor displays the game world "spinning around you". Therefore, mouse and remote are literally the camera. (thus to aim at something behind yourself would involve turning 180-deg, which also means you have your back to the TV now).
Last related idea would be the FPS-analog-stick sense, where you have a neutral position/angle (say, pointing remote at TV, level to the ground), and tilting the remote away from that neutral angle determines the angular speed at which the camera moves. So large angles would make the camera move fast, and small deflections yield slow camera movements (just like 3D zelda archery, metroid prime free-aim). This is my guess as to how the retooled Metroid Prime 2 demo worked, as it didn't require you to spin around.
I sure as heck don't know for sure. Maybe it could've been a hybrid/compromise scheme, reminiscent of Perfect Dark on N64: analog aim was *not* stiffly tied to the camera -- small analog angles hardly moved the camera. Instead, the targeting reticule had a little bit of space to move around in the center of the screen, like a mouse in an OS. You'd have to push further on the stick to get the camera moving. And hey, that's like RE4's scheme, since the aim had some independence from the camera. If Leon was swinging his arms to the right (gun drawn), then suddenly swung to the left, the camera doesn't abruptly change directions. Instead, the camera stays calm for a moment, waiting for his arms to reach further left, then gradually changes the camara direction and picks up angular speed.
Either way, I have faith in Retro.
WORDS WORDS WORDS
Post by: MrMojoRising on September 23, 2005, 12:33:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
didn't see this posted anywhere on these forums so here we go...Quote
Sony's David Jaffee (GodOfWar) praises Nintendo's Revolution controller
His blog entry:
lotsa folks asking what I think about
Revolution....the quick hit is: I like it, can't wait to play with
it....worried- as a player- it could be a novelty that gets old...but
Nintendo is not dumb and they must know the whole 'novelty burnout' is
a risk so they are prob. doing all they can to make sure that doesn't
happen...I think it's a great idea....just like I thought it was a
great idea when Phil Harrison used the magic wand at GDC a few years
back...hmmm....maybe Miyamoto was in the audience then?
I hate that guy, David Jaffee. I've seen a couple of interviews with him and I seriously think he's quite the douche bag. I hate how he gets all of the credit for God of War when he had nothing to do with the gameplay which is the best part of the game. He writes a story that, while not bad, definately doesn't stand out from other video game stories much other than a threesome mini-game, which is stupid in the first place, and he gets praise from everyone because the game itself is really good. That would be like if someone other than Miyamoto wrote the story for the original Donkey Kong and got credit for the whole damn game.
Plus he's just a weiner.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 23, 2005, 08:33:36 AM
A few years ago he already had a few ideas, which would perfectly fit the Revolution interface."
(www.gamefront.de)
In case anyone doesn't know, Gearbox is behind the Halflife mods Opposing Force and Blue Shift, the PC port of Halo, and the Brothers in Arms series...Which makes the Revolution perfect for their kind of gameplay...
Post by: Mario on September 23, 2005, 08:39:14 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 21, 2005, 01:39:11 PM
"I was surprised when I saw it, I was surprised when I touched it, and when I played the sample games, I was even more surprised!" [Toshihiro] Nagoshi states. "I doubt that there's a creator who doesn't get tickled after getting their hands on this. It combines all the elements required to let you enjoy games while feeling that you've become the character."
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 21, 2005, 02:29:26 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 21, 2005, 02:49:24 PM
Quote
Ken Sugimori (Game Freak, art director of Pokemon): "You'll be able to do things with the Revolution that you could never do with consoles before," he says, adding with a laugh, "Personally, it's the kind of hardware where, more than making games, I'd rather play them."
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 21, 2005, 02:59:44 PM
There must be a reason for the NDAs and the secrecy. What else is Nintendo hiding? They've already revealed their big secret... why are games not leaking out to the press yet? Why aren't they showing actual games or letting anybody else show theirs? Is it just that they don't want to be shown up until they can unveil Mario, Zelda or Metroid? Or is there something more here?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 21, 2005, 03:12:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
There must be a reason for the NDAs and the secrecy. What else is Nintendo hiding? They've already revealed their big secret... why are games not leaking out to the press yet? Why aren't they showing actual games or letting anybody else show theirs? Is it just that they don't want to be shown up until they can unveil Mario, Zelda or Metroid? Or is there something more here?
Remember when Ninty first "revealed" the DS as just a dual-screened system? And then remember how it was the later revealed touch screen that the DS was primarily about?
Eurogamer: Is the freehand-style controller your trump card, or have we got more exciting stuff to look forward to?
Jim Merrick: Let's just say we have more surprises in store.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 21, 2005, 03:17:06 PM
.... potato.
Post by: ThePerm on October 21, 2005, 03:25:22 PM
Post by: Djunknown on October 21, 2005, 04:33:21 PM
Quote
Kouichi Suda (president of Grass Hopper Interactive, the studio behind Killer 7):..."I've already finalized a plan. Now, all that remains is to make it." Judging by Suda's comments, we can probably add Grass Hopper to the list of Revolution developers.
Experimental gameplay? Experimental controller? Sounds like a winning combination! Maybe we'll see a sequel to Killer 7, or something to that effect? Who knows what he'll think up next...
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 21, 2005, 04:36:03 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 21, 2005, 04:57:06 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 21, 2005, 05:07:01 PM
Yeah, so did Miyamoto, so what? The game was transferred to Revolution, and that's why it wasn't there...And NOE isn't nearly as out of the loop as many people think, considering the number of leaks we've gotten from them over the years... (such as Paper Mario GC an entire year before it was officially announced)
Post by: The Omen on October 21, 2005, 05:38:27 PM
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 21, 2005, 07:37:42 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 21, 2005, 07:44:22 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 21, 2005, 08:51:11 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 22, 2005, 03:04:09 AM
Post by: RABicle on October 22, 2005, 05:46:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
And NOE isn't nearly as out of the loop as many people think, considering the number of leaks we've gotten from them over the years... (such as Paper Mario GC an entire year before it was officially announced)
I think we're forgetting the real brains behind Nintendo! NAL! No one else could've known about Metroid Prime: Echoes.
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 22, 2005, 09:59:06 AM
Post by: cubist on October 22, 2005, 10:36:27 AM
Ever since the unveiling of the controller, I've been clicking away hoping to get some NEW information ever since. Now, the reality of the WAITING GAME is starting to settle in. Anybody with me on this?
Unfortunately, I'll still be clicking away...too much of a "fanboy" to begin with. S#!T!
Post by: IceCold on October 23, 2005, 08:41:18 PM
QuoteAnd I believe that the Revolution quite possibly will have more features - perhaps something that's embedded in the system so that once the PS3/X360 hardware is finalized and in production, they won't be able to copy the Rev. We can't forget the Iwata quote where he said something like "One of the features of the Revolution is something that doesn't affect gameplay at all. I know that this is one of those mysterious comments but..."
Metroid Dread is indeed the real deal, though Nintendo may have jumped the gun in letting people in on its development. It showed up in early E3 documents, but since it wasn't going to show, it was quickly dismissed and forgotten at the Expo. Expect more to show up about the game next year.
Post by: King of Twitch on October 23, 2005, 09:28:28 PM
new, undisclosed, nongameplay-related features..
= FEAR PACK.
Now you can FEEL the terror as a metroid sucks your head off. Miyamoto's a genius.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 23, 2005, 09:49:07 PM
Post by: cubist on October 23, 2005, 11:06:49 PM
Miyamoto shouldn't get credit for this one...as Metroid is created by Gumpei Yokoi, who is now deceased. Also, Retro is doing all the work for this sans the music and Miyamoto's right hand man who visits them. Of course, that's if development of the game is the same as it was for Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.
Still, Miyamoto is a genius!
Post by: MrMojoRising on October 24, 2005, 01:22:07 AM
I'm still waiting for word on this and Katamari DS.
Post by: couchmonkey on October 25, 2005, 06:54:12 AM
Edit: looking back a few posts....Jim Merrick held Reggie's position (or something similar) before Reggie came along. IGN used to interview him and Perrin Kaplan at the same time quite often. I bet he knows what's up, but I'm not going to get too excited about the remaining secrets because I'm afraid they won't be as cool as the controller. I love the controller...a lot.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 26, 2005, 08:44:50 AM
Square Enix's Yoshinori Kitase, one of the company's most respected producers (he's behind the whole Final Fantasy VII thing), reveals that he loves to go home after a long day's work, lay down, pick up the television remote with one hand and flip channels on the television. Games require him to move and hold the controller with both hands, and for first person shooters, things get even worse, as he's required to set up a table, mouse and keyboard. Kitase believes that the Revolution controller will allow people to play while laying down, using the controller to shoot things and wield guns. More strikingly, he states that the Revolution controller doesn't just change the content of a game, but the lifestyle of its players.
If anyone recalls, Kitase was the director of FFVII...Other respected game industry gents such as Akihiro Hino and Tetsuya Mizuguchi give the thumbs up to the system...
Post by: pudu on October 26, 2005, 09:28:08 AM
Quote
13. KLGamer for GamerCC: The Nintendo Revolution controller was shown
at the Tokyo Game Show... it's quite obvious that Nintendo is destined to be
as innovative as possible again. What do you, as a professional game-designer,
think about the controller and the Revolution itself? And... would Gearbox be
interested in developing games for the Nintendo Revolution?
Randy Pitchford: I think the Revolution is an interesting device and I
look forward to the challenge of making games for it. There are a few
ideas I've nurtured over the years that I think would be very
appropriate for the interface options the Revolution provides.
http://www.gamercc.com/index.php?page=showarticle&id=2712
Just thought I'd add another blurb from a game developer. The Brothers In Arms series of games has been highly acclaimed and I hope that Gearbox makes some great games for it. Seems like the Revoluiton might be less of a technilogical (frustrating, tedious) challenge for developers and more of a fun challenge to put the unique controller to good use. Nintendo's gameplay stratagy seems to be sitting well with developers so far. I think as more unique games come into fruition more and more devs will want to makes games for the console...that is as long as devs embrace it. An excellent first batch of games seems key no?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 26, 2005, 10:03:13 AM
~HOLY FAHK~
DID YOU HEAR THAT, DEG?
MASTER, WE'RE IN A TIGHT SPOT! TIGHTER THAN TIGHT!
I'M NOT A MONSTER -- IT'S ONLY A MASK
EXPLODE
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 26, 2005, 10:10:25 AM
Color me excited!
Post by: Artimus on October 26, 2005, 12:28:11 PM
"During a recent next-gen panel discussion, Epic Games vice president, Mark Reign, did not have kind words for Nintendo’s latest Revolution. One simple statement pretty much sums up his opinion:
”[Nintendo fans are in for] the most crappy, cheap, I-wish-I-hadn’t-bought-it sparkling innovations ever”."
Thanks to JoyStiq.
EDIT: Apparantly what he really said was that there would be games that were cheap sparkling innovations, not that the controller itself was.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 26, 2005, 01:42:24 PM
Post by: OptimusPrime on October 27, 2005, 04:50:26 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 27, 2005, 08:56:16 AM
ju-kno?
Post by: ThePerm on October 27, 2005, 10:55:07 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 27, 2005, 11:07:57 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 27, 2005, 12:49:31 PM
QuoteNow that is funny, is it really representative of what was said during the conference? I can't watch the video cause I'm at work, Its too big of a video to watch(bandwidth is being monitored
Originally posted by: nemo_83
animation showing Reign's bias, funny stuff
)
Post by: nemo_83 on October 27, 2005, 03:46:15 PM
Post by: Artimus on October 27, 2005, 03:49:42 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 27, 2005, 06:47:17 PM
There is a new piece up on this subject at gonintendo I believe.
Also the creator of Black and White says in a G4 interview,
"G4: Now Peter, I wanna start off with breaking news. The Nintendo Revolution controller. That was unveiled last week. A few weeks ago, you had this quote about never underestimate Nintendo. So I assume you got to see it ahead of time right?
PM: I mean… :stutters: you know, I’ve heard rumors about it for a little while, and I can tell you it’s a great great product, and that’s exactly what I meant by never underestimate Nintendo. You know, this is a Revolution. It’s what they, you know, it’s not the hardware of the machine, it’s not the speed of the machine, it’s the fact that that device will enable games to be made unlike no other have ever been.
G4: So you already thinking of ideas? You think you’re gonna do a game for it?
PM: Well, I mean, you know, absolutely. It, it’s so exciting to actually, for the first time, feel that you can move something in a 3D space. I mean, you gotta remember Jeff, that, the controllers that we’re currently using on the other consoles, really have their origin in platform games. They have no sympathy for moving around in a you know, a 3D world, and that’s what makes Revolution so exciting. Yeah, I would love to be doing something for it."
Post by: IceCold on October 27, 2005, 06:54:26 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 27, 2005, 07:07:58 PM
He says the reason SK and Nintendo went seperate ways was, "They wanted to create smaller and simpler games, and we wanted to make deeper and more-epic game experiences."
On the controller, "It looks cool and innovative, but I haven't seen the games yet, so it's hard to say. It does seem very interesting, and I think it opened a lot of eyes."
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 27, 2005, 07:20:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
He says the reason SK and Nintendo went seperate ways was, "They wanted to create smaller and simpler games, and we wanted to make deeper and more-epic game experiences."
Twilight Princess is a perfect example of this...
Wait a second............
Post by: Shecky on October 27, 2005, 07:21:02 PM
Quote
He says the reason SK and Nintendo went seperate ways was, "They wanted to create smaller and simpler games, and we wanted to make deeper and more-epic game experiences."
And by that he means that Nintendo didn't want to shell out a large amount of $$ to finance the title, not that Nintendo doesn't want deeper and more-epic game experiences to exist on their next console.
Edit: Keep in mind that this game has been on the drawing boards for how long?... Nintendo may have sunk some money into some of the "early development" of this title. Also, SN had no hard ties with Nintendo, they could have proposed the trilogy to Microsoft directly if they though it in their best interest.
Post by: ThePerm on October 27, 2005, 07:59:49 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on October 27, 2005, 08:32:36 PM
B-b-but I thought they were trying to do both.
Post by: Zach on October 28, 2005, 09:50:22 AM
Thats really great that the creator of that game likes the rev
Post by: ThePerm on October 28, 2005, 11:02:04 AM
q and a for someone who has played it....
damned precise!!!
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on October 29, 2005, 04:56:47 AM
Post by: Strell on October 29, 2005, 06:12:36 AM
I also am beginning to think that SK feels like one of those companies where everyone is sitting around and saying "how can we make a name for ourselves?" and are thinking that a huge multli-million dollar trilogy undertaking is the only way.
You know who else was in that situation? Naughty Dog. Insomniac. Sucker Punch. But look at all of them - able to churn out a respectable number of titles (sometimes even cross platform) and get into the gaming public's eye without the need to be overly grandiose about it. Even Clover Studios gets the idea. You don't need a 100 hour RPG set in the future with a lot of high profile FMV video.
I really, honestly think that SK feels they need to "prove" themselves in the VG front. They want to be considered this big force to be reckoned with. They want people to watch a commercial and go HOLY SH*T, ITS FROM SILICON KNIGHTS!! They want that kind of reputation.
And guess what else - they failed to do so on the Gamecube. THey had ample opportunity, time, and finincial backing to create 2-3 games during the GC's life at least. At least. They talk about how they want to do a trilogy now like they couldn't do so before. I'm positive Nintendo saw them as another Rare - promising a ton of AAA titles, but get one in the end, and even that took forever, and now they want to take forever again. And considering that I bet almost their entire bankroll was straight from Nintendo, they cut off a festering arm when they realized what they had on their hands.
Are delays/taking your time in with Nintendo philosophy? Somewhat. They do delay like no one else. But they still get stuff out in time. Zelda might not be here but at least I have other games to play in the meantime, namely DS titles.
As for the "they don't want epic games" comment, I have a few things to say. First, I don't want a 100 hour game. I can barely stomach a 40 hour game, and that's because half of that 40 hours might be busy work bs with leveling up or traveling around. And as I get older, I want a game that's 20 hours long that is full of dynamic, great gameplay. I think when Nintendo started to stress shorter games, they meant games need to be potently concise, not bloated with needless hours. I'd rather play a bunch of games with different stories and gameplay methods that waste the same amount of time playing something that bores me halfway through, and I feel the need to finish it because I'm 30 hours in and another 30 isn't that bad.
Finally, I've noticed that Nintendo's comments are always, always taken WAY out of context. WAY. "We want shorter games" is the perfect example. People act like NIntendo said they want one-dungeon Zeldas and 20 star Marios. "We don't think graphics are the future." That will be spun endlessly by competitors and fanboys. "Online gaming isn't profitable." It isn't, and even now they aren't really going to make much off of it. "It's all about gameplay." This one pisses me off the most, because we see developers talk about, say, the 360's power, then at the end they ultimately come back to saying "but it's really all about the games." Mark Rein comes to mind. And all those people that call Nintendo's machines underpowered and can't play DVDs and other such nonsense. Hypocrites.
I wish SK the best of luck but if DD is goign to walk around and start saying a bunch of statements that completely contradict everything he's said in the last 4-5 years, then I don't know what to do for him. He always seemed like one of the smarter guys in the industry and could understand what Nintendo was saying, but now it sounds like he's wearing a money hat from MS.
Post by: ThePerm on October 29, 2005, 07:17:16 AM
Post by: zakkiel on October 29, 2005, 08:23:08 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 29, 2005, 12:48:51 PM
I just don't know why they did not push ED and MGS heavily. What GameCube needed was a face lift in the terms of image and SK's games could have gone a long way in showing the industry that Nintendo is publishing mature games. They didn't advertise the games and the games didn't sell thus giving Nintendo what they must have really been wanting which was dwindling third party support because Nintendo had not reached out to PS2 or Xbox gamers to expand their console base with the software they had. Instead they super duper deformed Zelda not helping to push the console to non-Nintendo owners who were still stuck on getting over the asthetics of the purple Fisher Price lunchbox. Nintendo spoke to the consumer that it was underpowered when it really wasn't. Nintendo spoke to the consumer that there was nothing but kid games when there were actually some great mature games from Nintendo themselves. All it lacked was the help of third parties and the only one who saw this was Capcom, but when other third parties would not contribute Capcom was forced to port their games to the PS2 and cancel others. Right now Nintendo needs to be convincing several third parties to get out at least one mature game each for the Revolution early so that the console will demonstrate to gamers through software that the system is serious and there will be more serious games there in the future. Nintendo needs to fight MS's spin; they do not need to let third parties dump micro sparkling innovation games all over the Revolution destroying the image.
SK makes high quality games and they make really high quality games with Nintendo, but I can understand why Nintendo didn't want to fund Too Human and I can understand why Dennis was willing to leave a safe deal with Nintendo in order to tell his story.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 29, 2005, 12:59:02 PM
That was a bad idea from the start.
Also, stop whining, Nemo.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 29, 2005, 01:19:17 PM
Hideo Kojima: As the creator, my work is to create original and intuitive games, giving importance to the experience of gameplay. Therefore, innovation is very important. I believe the step has given Nintendo, in order to approach video games to a currently non-casual gamer public, has been huge. I have a couple of ideas to the ones that go through my head when I'm able, but of course, I cannot say anything. You will have news very soon.
Yay... ^_^
(Source)
Post by: odifiend on October 29, 2005, 03:11:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Wasn't MGS a remake of a game from the Playstation 1, released around the time a new installment was being made for the PS2?
That was a bad idea from the start.
Also, stop whining, Nemo.
MGS:TTS was released in March 11, 2004 and MGS3 October 15, 2004. In video game time that is a while. But still nemo, it wasn't nintendo's fault that MGS wasn't advertised as Konami was publishing it. Also, I remember seeing ads for ED on tv and this was back when NOA's marketing department was more abyssmal than they are now.
And what is it they say, hindsight is always 20/20? Nintendo didn't exactly know things like Capcom's 5 would fall through. But whatever...
As for what Kojima's comments - cool. Even though he is an incredibly arrogant prick, I really like his games. Isn't he also responsible for Botkai? It'll be interesting to see what he might come up with.
Post by: pudu on October 29, 2005, 04:29:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
MeriStation: We saw statements (from [Nintendo President] Satoru Iwata's video conference) about the Nintendo Revolution controller. Has it been tested already? What opinion do you have of it? Do you have some ideas for future games?
Hideo Kojima: As the creator, my work is to create original and intuitive games, giving importance to the experience of gameplay. Therefore, innovation is very important. I believe the step has given Nintendo, in order to approach video games to a currently non-casual gamer public, has been huge. I have a couple of ideas to the ones that go through my head when I'm able, but of course, I cannot say anything. You will have news very soon.
Yay... ^_^
(Source)
Kojima praising Nintendo and wanting to make games for Revolution could lead to some excellent games and has the potential to really help Nintendo's image. What really gets me thinking is him saying that we'll hear more news very soon. I wonder if this is just him saying more about his projects because he wants to or if it is Nintendo finally letting him say more because they are stopping devs from talking about and showing projects? I think it could prove wise for Nintendo to both allow developers to reveal more about their games (if they are indeed stopping them) and for Nintendo to reveal some more Rev. specs right around the 360 launch.
Oh and another tidbit for this topic:
QuoteFrom www.gonintendo.com
At an Atari press conference last week, a big wig at Atari confirms their support for the Revolution. While no specific games were announced, it’s still great to have one more developer hop on board. Revolution support seems to be coming along very, very nicely.
Post by: Shecky on October 29, 2005, 07:28:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
<A bunch of different stuff>
Wow, that's one of the most well thought out posts I've seen in a while.
I agree with all of it.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 29, 2005, 09:16:18 PM
And for what it's worth, Metal Gear Substance on the Xbox did about the same sales wise as Twin Snakes did.
Post by: Berto2K on October 29, 2005, 09:37:59 PM
Post by: stevey on October 30, 2005, 08:53:05 AM
I wish they could atleast say the date of the news so we can get hype up for the miyamoton.
Post by: nemo_83 on October 30, 2005, 09:36:30 AM
If Nintendo did advertise those games it was obviously not enough. The stuff I watch has so many game commercials some times it is kind of sickening.
I wasn't complaining; I was only stating the facts. Nintendo didn't go super slick with the looks of the Revolution for no reason; they learned their lesson the really hard way.
And I will agree it wasn't the smartest move by Nintendo to get their only developer of original mature games to do a remake of a game from the PSX (I already own and many others did too) when a sequel for that game is debuting on another system later in the same year. I didn't want to bring that up because the game could have at least sold more units then it did even with what was against it already.
It did however help make GameCube look like the remake machine; not good.
Post by: Dasmos on October 30, 2005, 01:05:09 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 30, 2005, 01:13:14 PM
Post by: pudu on October 30, 2005, 02:00:35 PM
Quote
W-G: Are you excited about the Revolution controller?
ND: As a player… yes, I can see how it will make for some interesting gameplay… as a Designer, I can also see that it will bring some interesting challenges and, perhaps, a few headaches J
W-G: What is your take on the different approaches that the three console makers are taking this next generation?
ND: It seems obvious to me that Nintendo are just not entering the same battle that PS3 and 360 are. Nintendo probably feel that they cover a niche that makes their brand of gaming unique and will solely concentrate on that. 360’s tactic seems to be arriving on the battlefield first… at tactic that may well work. They do have some attractive content.
But then Sony is an incomparable marketer who knows how to generate a buzz about the hardware and deliver some very cool first party titles. So… who is going to be the victor? Hard to say… but it will be a messy fight, which ultimately should provide the gamers with a good degree of choice of game. No bad thing for them J
W-G: From what I can tell, the basis of Possession seems a little bit like Nintendo/n-Space's current gen game, Geist. What differs the two?
ND: On the surface it may appear so. But you’ll soon notice that the two are very different. Geist allows you to possess items that specifically relate to a linear mechanics or puzzles, generally quite limited in scope. Outside of that the possession factor is quite limiting. In “Possession” you can possess any single zombie in your army at any time and take advantage of their unique abilities. This may include firing weapons that they are carrying (the Shamblers) to wall climbing (the Shredders) and just plain and simply pummelling everything into dust (the Monster).
For us, the possession mechanic that opens up a huge amount of fun and emergent gameplay mechanics. Plus you get to BE the zombie… and that’s got to be cool.
W-G: Out of the three next-gen games, which do you like the best?
ND: If you mean games then I am most excited by Morrowind IV. I have always enjoyed the freedom that the Morrowind games offer the player. If you are referring to the consoles… I don’t have a favourite. As a designer I have always felt the need to own each console… and do just that. It just doesn’t pay to limit myself and therefore prevent myself from being able to play and explore any game produced.
Make sure to click the link to see the full interview if you're interested. It's too bad he sounds a bit weary of the Revolution because he thinks it's controller might be hard to program for. I hope most devs see it as a worth while challenge rather then an annoyance. Another worthy point is that he, like some other developers I'm sure, is still unsure of whether or not there will be a Revolution port because they are making the game to the standars of Xbox 360 and PS3 and aren't sure if the Revolution can handle it. This is a likely answer to why RE5 isn't being worked on for Rev (as far as we know) right now. Man...Nintendo better not make the console so underpowered that it starts losing a lot of possible ports (especially for good games like RE5).
Post by: Dasmos on October 30, 2005, 02:42:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pudu
(especially for good games like RE5).
You've played it? Awesome.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 30, 2005, 04:52:54 PM
Possession sounds retarded. An army of zombies? That only works with Bruce Campbell, man, and when you're fighting the army. That's what zombies are there for. Fighting AGAINST.
Post by: Renny on October 30, 2005, 05:21:28 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 30, 2005, 05:51:51 PM
Post by: zakkiel on October 30, 2005, 06:42:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
It's apparently easy to program for. He just doesn't want to put forth the creative effort, sounds like.
Possession sounds retarded. An army of zombies? That only works with Bruce Campbell, man, and when you're fighting the army. That's what zombies are there for. Fighting AGAINST.
See, I love it when they turn an idea on its head. Someone should make a video game where you are an alien defending your planet against a horde of invading humans. I think it would be more believable than the usual.
Post by: pudu on October 30, 2005, 08:46:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuote
Originally posted by: pudu
(especially for good games like RE5).
You've played it? Awesome.
Right after I posted that I knew someone would probably be all over that comment. Yep, I'm assuming it will be a good game (because of RE4 and other RE games popularity and overal track record) and I thought that assumption could go without saying...and yep by good game I mean in my opinion (as some others may not like it even if I do). Wasn't sure how careful I had to be. Anyway, rather then editing my original post please just make "especially for good games like RE5" = "especially for potentially good games like RE5".
As far as the quality of the game Possession I have no clue. I saw that one of the Q's asked how the game compared to Geist so I thought I'd throw it in there in case someone found it interesting. The main thing I wanted to bring up, as I said earlier, is that some developers aren't committing to games since they don't know specs yet and that this developer thought the controller might be difficult to use with his game.
Post by: Dasmos on October 31, 2005, 12:29:57 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 01, 2005, 05:01:30 AM
In the end, none of the three games got a huge advertising blitz or anything. Nintendo could afford to push some of these games more.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2005, 08:47:43 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 01, 2005, 11:34:40 AM
And that's the problem with the AMERIKA GEIMU market.
Post by: Kairon on November 01, 2005, 12:20:45 PM
I also remember advertising for Eternal Darkness...but that didn't help much either.
I'm thinking that there's virtually no advertising at all for the Mario Party series... yet that game sells like hotcakes.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on November 01, 2005, 12:30:30 PM
"They wanted to create smaller and simpler games, and we wanted to make deeper and more-epic game experiences."
That's Denis Dyack's reason for leaving Nintendo. I think it's a good reason if it's true. It's exactly what I've been worried about ever since this non-gamer stuff started up and if I leave Nintendo it will be for that reason. But then I'm not the only person worried about that. So Denis might just be saying that because it's an excuse that a lot of the more disgruntled Nintendo fans would sympathize with. It makes Ninendo look like that bad guy and it's believable for anyone pissed off that Nintendo lost SK.
I agree that the advertising sucked but then ALL Nintendo Cube advertising sucked so it's not totally a fair arguement. With the Cube often franchise games did well (ie: those who don't need advertising) and original titles didn't. I did see ads for Eternal Darkness but they just made the game look like a generic action title and did not give any indication of the horror theme it had. Realistically it needed a scary commercial. Twin Snakes was doomed because Konami themselves sabotaged it by announcing MGS3 at the same time. Nintendo were like total saps in that deal. What sort of chinless wimp asks for a MGS game and then agrees to merely a remake and then gets their own team, capable of making their own games, to work on it?
Personally I think Nintendo and SK did have a big personal difference that kept them from gelling. Nintendo wants their console to appeal to the entire market. To do this they have this INSANE strategy (that has never worked and never will) where every game is designed to be suitable for everybody (but ends up appealing to nobody as a result). SK clashes huge with this philosophy. They make mature games that only target part of the market. They better suit someone like Sony who has made a true "everybody" console by offering a varied library where all sorts of totally different games are available and as a result there's something for everybody.
It's too bad because they totally had the "make great games" philosophy in common. They should have worked together perfectly if (surprise) Nintendo wasn't a stubborn old fuddy-duddy.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 01, 2005, 12:33:18 PM
Quote
(but ends up appealing to nobody as a result)
Wow, I wasn't aware there were any Nintendo games that sold zero copies.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2005, 01:10:06 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 01, 2005, 01:34:47 PM
Quote
Nintendo wants their console to appeal to the entire market. To do this they have this INSANE strategy (that has never worked and never will) where every game is designed to be suitable for everybody (but ends up appealing to nobody as a result).
Wow, this statement is so false I can't believe it's being uttered. Pokemon appealed to everybody: it had my PC-RPG/Strategy loving uncle buying a gameboy to play it. Mario consistently appeals ACROSS boundaries, as do Zelda games. My best friend and his college buddies actually begged to borrow my GC broadband adaptor and Mario Kart: DD copy because they play it so much in their dorm, even after all these years. Animal Crossing got friggin entire Japanese families, mothers and kids, playing. And of course, mini-game based titles like Mario Party and Wario Ware continue to sell strong numbers DESPITE lack of ads, lack of graphics, low production budgets and their "non-conventional" nature.
IN ADDITION, Nintendo remains the most profitable hardware maker in the industry. Electronic Arts is the only company that can be expected to beat Nintendo in terms of profits/sales. I wonder how a strategy that "never works and never will" could accomplish all that.
I also wonder how someone who actually follow's Nintendo could even think otherwise: the very reason we're all here is because we believe that there's something worth fighting for in Nintendo's drive for quality gameplay instead of fad-based niche appeals and innovation as opposed to Tomb-Raider-esque not-even-trying-to-make-a-diufferent-game sequels. If we didn't, we'd all be Sony or Microsoft fans.
Quote
They better suit someone like Sony who has made a true "everybody" console by offering a varied library where all sorts of totally different games are available and as a result there's something for everybody.
INCORRECT. Silicon Knightd best suits MICROSOFT. Microsoft has shown themselves as a company perfectly willing to take risks and bankroll ambitious titles that are cemented FIRMLY in the hardcore gamer segment. Some of these gambles fail (like that mediocre Oddworld piece of...) while others succeed (like buying a little-known Macintosh developer and stealing from Apple a breakout game like Halo).
Microsoft has also shown a keen interest in following Nintendo's lead and where Nintendo once showed interest in a company, Microsoft practically purchases the company outright in search of Nintendo gold. That's why they bought the bloated Rareware, with nothing to show for it except one port in 4 years, a standard action/adventure title to launch the X360 with and an FPS whose only purpose is to look pretty until Halo 3 comes out. This is also why they bought Silicon Knights: they're hoping that whatever Nintendo saw in the company, they can buy it for dollars and cash.
Quote
It's too bad because they totally had the "make great games" philosophy in common. They should have worked together perfectly if (surprise) Nintendo wasn't a stubborn old fuddy-duddy.
That's ridiculous. Have you PLAYED ED? Nintendo fans let themselves be overhyped by that game, but in the end realized that had it not been for Miyamoto's input, the game would've likely been saddled with a control system WORSE than RE's. Also, reviewer's were grasping at good things to say about the game, so it eventualy came out that the game had "eh" gameplay, was too short, BUT...and get this..BUT... it had great voice acting and cinematics. How convincing. It wasn't a BAD game, but it absolutely failed to deliver on the hype. Sales numbers bore this out.
When Silicon Knights says "great games" they don't mean the same thing Nintendo means when they say "great games." Nintendo means strong gameplay, game design innovations, and straight-up fun. Silicon Knights means ambience, cinematics, and the graphical power to let them use cinematic conceits; Silicon Knights is all about making players think they're playing a great game while Nintendo is focused on the player actualy playing that great game. Silicon Knights has MORE in common with SQUARESOFT than they have in common with Nintendo.
I have absolutely nothing against Silicon Knights, I own ED, beat all 3 storylines, got scared once or twice, jumped when I heard a torch snap-crackle-pop... I even enjoyed the game for what it was! But it simply didn't have the gameplay quality you'd expect from a game with Nintendo on the box, or the game design polish (seriously, I like their spell system grammar concept but it was absolutely skeletal and not fleshed out one bit) I expect from a top tier game.
I'm not saying that SK won't do well in the future. They have some intrigueing ideas about Too Human...just like they had some intrigueing ideas about Eternal Darkness. But I get the feeling that SK will not be the developer-to-talk-about in 3 years, because they've displayed certain weaknesses in gameplay carry-through and design that need to be solved before I can believe that Too Human will stand out in any way versus whatever other action title the Japanese come out with then.
Spend loads of money on a trilogy epic project that's been in development since 1998 from a company that delivered mediocre gameplay but great voice acting with their last venture? Microsoft is willing to take that risk in hopes of a payoff, while Nintendo evidently doesn't believe the end result 5 years from now will be positive.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on November 01, 2005, 02:03:12 PM
The PS2 is the ulitmate everybody console because everybody can find something they like on it. Kids, adults, males, females, casual gamers, hardcore gamers - everyone can find something they like because there's tons of variety and tons of different games designed specifically for those groups. One game isn't designed for all those groups. Instead there are games for hardcore gamers and games for kids. Things are more specific instead of being made to have general appeal so that everyone can like it. SK makes games strictly for adults and they tend to be more hardcore than say EA. So Sony would be an ideal fit. MS isn't a bad choice either for SK as they tend to focus on the mature market so it fits SK well. The "every game for everybody" approach is exclusively Nintendo's.
As for the approach never working the evidence is that ever since Nintendo lost all their third party support with the N64 their market share and just overall relevence in the console market has dropped like a rock. Why? Because the third parties of the NES and SNES era (as well as the Nintendo portables) provided the required variety. Without them Nintendo is stuck with their "everybody" games making up nearly all of the major titles so the overall lineup looks largely the same and thus anyone not interested in the Nintendo "style" is turned off by the whole console. Note how the N64 had a lot of success from Goldeneye which was a lot different than the average Nintendo game. Note how they failed to keep up that momentum as they released more "everybody" games and the non-Nintendo fans who bought Goldeneye got bored.
Post by: zakkiel on November 01, 2005, 02:06:02 PM
QuoteI agree with almsot everything you say, but i have to take issue with that. Bungie was far from the most famous player on the block, but they had some justifiable name-recognition from the Myth series, and wasn't Team-17 of Worms fame originally part of them?
Some of these gambles fail (like that mediocre Oddworld piece of...) while others succeed (like buying a little-known Macintosh developer and stealing from Apple a breakout game like Halo).
Post by: Kairon on November 01, 2005, 02:23:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
As for the approach never working the evidence is that ever since Nintendo lost all their third party support with the N64 their market share and just overall relevence in the console market has dropped like a rock. Why? Because the third parties of the NES and SNES era (as well as the Nintendo portables) provided the required variety. Without them Nintendo is stuck with their "everybody" games making up nearly all of the major titles so the overall lineup looks largely the same and thus anyone not interested in the Nintendo "style" is turned off by the whole console. Note how the N64 had a lot of success from Goldeneye which was a lot different than the average Nintendo game. Note how they failed to keep up that momentum as they released more "everybody" games and the non-Nintendo fans who bought Goldeneye got bored.
Actually, Nintendo losing all third party support is a precise example of how their strategy SUCCEEDED. Had Nintendo been a company that appealed specifically to this niche or that niche, they'd have been too stretched out over too many small niches with too few titles to have kept on going. Instead, they remained profitable with million selling games that had broad appeal like Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Zelda, and Pokemon. The only reason at all that Nintendo survived the 32/64 bit era is because their games HAD universal appeal that enabled them to cross niche boundaries and sell to the market at large: Mario 64's 7+ million copies sold as well as Zelda 64's 7+ million copies sold.
And I'm tired of this talk about marketshare. The gaming market is big enough that it's evolved past the "It's too big for the both of us" Testosterone "I win" mentality. Nintendo continues to be very profitable whereas Microsoft is hemmoraging money and Sony is facing huge R & D costs for their Cell chip, AND Nintendo is still a very viable player in the console market with a strong influence with where games are going. And they still make good games. Considering all the things Nintendo has going for it, I hardly see any reason to think the sky is falling when someone else sells a lot of systems.
Anyways, the success of Goldeneye on the N64 does tell us something. It tells us that the addition of the analog stick to the N64 controller benefitted Nintendo. The analog stick and N64 controller made shooters desirable on the N64, somerthing which the PSX couldn't offer technologically at the time. But of course, once Sony copied the analog stick, FPS games were no longer a Nintendo console entity, and then Microsoft took over the genre from Sony. If you really want to replicate the success of Goldeneye, you need another "analog stick". See where this is leading?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on November 01, 2005, 02:34:47 PM
Quote
Nintendo wants their console to appeal to the entire market. To do this they have this INSANE strategy (that has never worked and never will) where every game is designed to be suitable for everybody (but ends up appealing to nobody as a result).
That isn't their strategy - that's the unfortunate consequence of the fact that Nintendo has poor third party support, which certainly isn't be choice. What we're left with is everybody games because that's what NIntendo makes.... and if you have issues with the unusually fantastic in-house games that Nintendo produces, then I have issues with you.
My take on the Sk situation is that Nintendo wasn't willing/able to fund the Too Human trilogy, which is certainly understandable if unfortunate. But I think the fact that Nintendo has been so open to games like ED, geist, and RE4 shows that they are open to mature/niche titles regardless, unfortunatley the GameCube didn't have the userbase to support games like that. If the Revolution is the runaway success that Nintendo wants it to be, then I don't think we'll have to worry about only getting 'everybody' games.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 01, 2005, 03:22:06 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 02, 2005, 05:05:39 AM
Post by: cubist on November 03, 2005, 11:36:38 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 03, 2005, 11:46:58 AM
And whooooops, Sega gave like 70% of their exclusive games to Microsoft this current gen...Huge blow to Sony and Ninty considering how well they sold...Wait, they didn't...
Post by: ThePerm on November 03, 2005, 01:19:43 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2005, 01:33:38 PM
I find that concept incredibly flawed. Third parties don't support Nintendo because Nintendo doesn't cater to them as well as the other two do and Nintendo has the weakest marker share. I don't know what it's like now but for a while Nintendo had the highest licencing fees and with the N64 they didn't share important microcode with everyone and stuff like that. They didn't help Sega at all with PSO despite it being the first online Cube game. I don't think third parties are intimidated by Nintendo's games it's just that Nintendo acts like an ass and why should you put up with a dick when from a financial point of view there is no benefit in giving them more attention than the competition. Note that on the GBA this whole "Nintendo makes the best games" stuff doesn't matter. It's because the GBA has dominating market share and it's worth putting up with any of Nintendo heelish ways to support it.
If Nintendo made worse games if anything it would hurt their third party relations because it would severely hurt their console sales. To attract third parties Nintendo has to be accomodating and treat third parties as partners instead of peons to exploit and then improve their market share as a result of their own first party games and quality third party titles they obtained by making deals and playing nice. MS publishes the most successful and argueably best Xbox game in Halo but that doesn't hurt their third party support.
A Nintendo console with worse first party titles would just be a console with crappy third party selection AND lame first party games. Who the hell is going to buy that?
