Post by: WindyMan on July 07, 2005, 09:35:26 PM
UK research firm WaveMetrix has been snooping around the Internet lately, gathering up data on what people think about the two new handheld systems, Nintendo DS and Sony PSP. After taking in comments from online forums and analyzing them, a finalized research report shows that two screens are apparently better than one.
The report took a look at four areas that many gamers are most interested in for handhelds: Games, overall hardware quality, screen quality, and value for money. The DS beat the PSP in all of the above, most decisively in value. Despite all the extra bells and whistles the Sony handheld offers, the large price difference in hardware and software makes the DS a better buy for those just looking to play games.
In addition to DS games being cheaper, the games are also better. According to the report, consumers enjoy the steady release of good titles for the Nintendo DS, as opposed to Sony's initial flurry of releases and current drought. Titles like Electroplankton, Need for Speed Underground 2, Trauma Center, and the Star Wars Episode III game were just some of the broad list of DS games customers were positive about. On the other side of the spectrum, Madden 2005 and Goldeneye: Rogue Agent got a thumbs down for issues like poor graphics and computer AI. Gamers would also like to see fewer puzzle-type titles on the DS, and eventually hope that the overall library of titles will broaden out.
Although the Nintendo DS does fare better than the Sony PSP in the quality categories, consumer opinions are still generally negative for both. The report claims many DS owners are unhappy with the thin and easily scratchable screen covers, but compared to PSP complaints that include battery life, sticky buttons and a poor analog stick, DS owners are better off. Both systems do share a common problem, though. Dead pixels and other screen defects are something manufacturers have always had problems with, but customers expect that a screen be flawless. Needless to say, many are disappointed with what they wind up with.
In addition to taking a look at what people feel about each system, the WaveMetrix report also examined "the buzz factor" of each of the four categories. For the most part, the PSP is being talked about twice as much as DS. However, the report concludes that since the PSP was outperformed in every aspect, all of that extra discussion about the PSP is mostly negative, despite Sony's big advertising push. In other words, there are a lot of people that aren't as happy with the PSP as Sony would like.
Post by: King of Twitch on July 07, 2005, 09:56:49 PM
Post by: Bloodworth on July 07, 2005, 10:05:38 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 07, 2005, 10:15:45 PM
QuoteTake that PSP!!! Ohh that hurts don't it? maybe you should fight back.....
Hardware sales :
DS = 35 000
PSP = 21 000
Software sales for the week :
DS = 160 000
PSP = 50 000
All this based on Famitsu data.
Post by: Mario on July 07, 2005, 10:49:20 PM
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Gamers would also like to see fewer puzzle-type titles on the DS
Not this gamer! More puzzle games please!
Post by: IceCold on July 07, 2005, 11:32:25 PM
LOL!! I love how they don't mention Yoshi, WWT, Kirby, Meteos etc while they say the customers are positive about Electroplankton (a game only out in Japan, and this is a UK research corp), Trauma Centre (which isn't out yet), and NFSU & Star Wars (which can't hold a candle to Kirby et al).
And Electroplankton sold how many, a couple of thousand units in Japan? So exactly how many customers "were positive" about it?
Post by: ruby_onix on July 08, 2005, 01:01:24 AM
Of course, that's not to say that this is a bad thing. You just need to know how to take this.
Quote
And Electroplankton sold how many, a couple of thousand units in Japan? So exactly how many customers "were positive" about it?
They probably came across a couple of "Electroplankton Appreciation" threads. And came to the conclusion that "people liked Electroplankton, and thought it was a good game" (even if not many people bought it).
Post by: stevey on July 08, 2005, 05:10:21 AM
Post by: WindyMan on July 08, 2005, 06:05:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
LOL!! I love how they don't mention Yoshi, WWT, Kirby, Meteos etc while they say the customers are positive about Electroplankton (a game only out in Japan, and this is a UK research corp), Trauma Centre (which isn't out yet), and NFSU & Star Wars (which can't hold a candle to Kirby et al).
They do. There were 15 or so games they listed under the positive chart, it's just that there were too many to list. I just picked the games that were varied to give a good idea of the spectrum.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2005, 07:51:37 AM
Still I think that one huge title could put the PSP ahead. The DS is doing better more due to the PSP's shortcomings than the DS' greatness. In order to really get a clear lead the DS needs some more killer games and I see some in the release pipeline. The DS right now is merely not as bad as the PSP. The DS should be really awesome.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 08, 2005, 08:10:30 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 08, 2005, 09:02:20 AM
Post by: Djunknown on July 08, 2005, 10:00:38 AM
As mentioned earlier, the PSP needs that killer app(s) to get it going. Can something like GTA on a portable still feel fresh after all the years of hype and extensions?
Post by: Deguello on July 08, 2005, 10:20:23 AM
Quote
I think PSP sales will go up once GTA hits it.
Maybe in America but it won't amount to a hill of beans in Japan. The problem with the more recent games Sony and third parties are throwing up for the PSP in Japan is that most of them are either PS2 ports or PS1 ports. Original games bomb hard and it becomes only financially viable to port old games or concurrent PS2 games instead of making entirely new games or at least new entries in a series.
Compare this to the DS whose best-selling game at the moment is some kind of DS IQ test with an egregiously long title, and whose various new games have sustained themselves on the charts for a long time, and you have environment that is friendly to both new games and ports.
Over here, Sony seems more interested in making the PSP some sort of movie player as opposed to a game device. Only one game is scheduled for release this month, that was Coded Arms and it was released 2 days ago. the next game scheduled is Death Jr. More than a month away, and It looks like it is going to be the PSP's only release that month, too. You know, the sort of thing that would land a Sony exec into the hot seat of a pointed IGN interview, if you catch my drift.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 08, 2005, 11:37:26 AM
j/k but it looks kinda true for now, in terms of the release schedule.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2005, 11:53:46 AM
I don't think it will. A series only sells systems for a few years before the formula gets stale and only a major shakeup to the series like Mario 64 can revitalize it. Sonic sold Genesises but not Dreamcasts. Resident Evil sold Playstations but not Gamecubes. GTA sold PS2s but unalterted I don't think it would sell PSPs. When GTA3 came out you HAD to buy a PS2 to play a game like that. Vice City and San Andreas then benefited from those PS2 sales and also sold really big. However no one HAS to buy a PSP to play a GTA game. It would probably be good but are you really missing anything when there are THREE similar games on the PS2?
If you bought a PS2 for GTA it's like GTA3 cost $350, VC cost $50 and SA cost $50. Suddenly you get a price hike to $300 for the next GTA. That game better be DAMN good and really essential to pay that high "entry fee" again.
Post by: Deguello on July 08, 2005, 12:40:38 PM
Quote
PSP is the new GameCube!
j/k but it looks kinda true for now, in terms of the release schedule.
Even worse. No system has ever had a game drought this bad. What's worse is what Sony is doing about it. In lieu of trying to get new games from third parties or at least trying to develop some themselves, they instead let the third parties run wild with afterthought ports and delay some of their key summer titles like Armored Core and Ape Escape Academy to October and November respectively and stock the shelves with a boatload of movies. While I realize that the movies and games have nothing to do with each other, Joe Casual doesn't. When he looks at the huge PSP rack in EB and sees nothing but movies he is going to wonder WTF Sony is thinking. Potentially worse is if Joe Casual actually buys up a lot of movies. Then Sony will have created an environment where movies compete against games and possibly win. I hear that one or two UMD movies have breached 100,000, which is more than some GAMES. Who's going to want to develop new content for a platform when you might get beat out by a movie? Is this Sony's convergence dream?
And I wholeheartedly agree with Ian for a change. GTA PSP might be big game for it but I doubt it will be a huge draw for the PSP. Like Ian said, you don't NEED a PSP for GTA. On the other hand you NEED a DS for Nintendogs. You NEED a DS for Pac-Pix and Trauma Center and Jump Superstars. It just underscores that Sony has no idea what the handheld market is like.
Post by: gally on July 08, 2005, 01:46:25 PM
Wario Ware Touched
Another Code: Two Memories (I imported the European version)
Kirby: Canvas Curse (Japanese version)
Meteos
He loved those games. They ALL showed off what the system could do that was unique to it and not the PSP, which is the system he owns. He commented that the PSP doesn't have much right now that he is interested in, and that he now finds it hard to resist buying a DS, ever since Wario Ware grabbed his attention. He really liked it, and I was surprised to see he also liked Another Code as well (he said "this is my kind of game"). Kirby struck him as the type of game that might lack replay value, but he really enjoyed Meteos.
I think more and more people are beginning to realize that, as many of you touched upon, the DS has more ORIGINAL games for it that the other systems do not, and if you want these original experiences, the DS is the only way to go.
I was disappointed at first when I saw the DS's specs compared to the PSP's, and then I was afraid that Sony's efforts to get people to buy movies for the PSP might actually take off, but looking at things now, it seems as if Nintendo had made the wise choice here. Cheaper price, ORIGINAL games, a system that can do things others cannot (the two screens and the touch screen impressed a number of people I showed it to), all work in its favor.
I'm impressed.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 08, 2005, 02:00:04 PM
SUPER KAWAII SCHOOLGIRL LOVE ADVENTURE WINS AGAIN!
Post by: stevey on July 08, 2005, 03:12:30 PM
You hear wrong! All IMD movie have sold 100,000 total.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 08, 2005, 03:15:55 PM
Post by: stevey on July 08, 2005, 04:00:16 PM
Post by: Urkel on July 08, 2005, 06:54:14 PM
If the cost of developing an original PSP game is similar to the cost of developing a console game, why would a publisher make an original game exclusive to the PSP when it has a much smaller userbase than the PS2? At this point, I think most PSP exclusives are simply there to be the big fish in the small pond. Coded Arms only exists to fill the FPS gap in the PSP's lineup. Why else would a Japanese dev make a FPS? Death Jr. is getting way more attention it ever would than if it had to compete against console platformers.
I believe part of the reason the DS is getting so many original games is because there's more an attitude of innovation with the DS. Odds are that the people who buy a DS are doing so because they want something new, so publishers are more willing to take a risk on delivering something different. At least, that's the only reason I can think of for Capcom to actually be willing to release a wacky lawyer game outside of Japan.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 08, 2005, 07:10:54 PM
I woulda thought that that would be obvious, even to them.....
Post by: Urkel on July 08, 2005, 07:22:06 PM
Because Capcom enjoys pain.
Post by: evil intentions on July 08, 2005, 08:40:15 PM
Post by: RABicle on July 09, 2005, 12:22:19 AM
Obviosuly this report didn't monitor Planet Gamecube.
Post by: Nephilim on July 09, 2005, 04:44:12 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2005, 08:36:59 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 10, 2005, 11:46:15 AM
This is pretty cool news, though. It's nice to get confirmation on something I believed all along (and which is, in fact, a matter of opinion
).I can't wait to get Meteos, but problems keep blocking my attempts to get to a game store.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 10, 2005, 02:17:13 PM
If Animal Crossing Online and/or Mario Kart Online hit before the PSP can get any form of killer app out there, then it's going to be game, set, match: Nintendo.
There is currently no true killer app available on the DS, but once it goes from being a simple handheld to being an online portal device, love for the machine will increase tenfold.
I've read some of the details for AC DS. It's like Nintendo robbed my bank of AC online ideas. I'm not saying I'm taking credit, but everything I could think of which would make AC online fun, they're already doing.
-SB
Post by: mantidor on July 10, 2005, 03:48:25 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 10, 2005, 05:31:51 PM
I'm not doubting the selling power of Nintendogs, but unless Nintendo fires up a multi-million dollar ad campaign for the game in the US and hypes it like crazy, then I doubt it'll see the same sales here that it did in Japan.
I cite MK and AC because we already know they've both succeeded around the world AND there has been a great deal of fanfare about seeing both games online (MK more so than AC, but AC was still widely speculated as being an excellent potential online game). Before the release of MKDD, people were going crazy over the notion that it COULD feature online play.
If Nintendo launches the game with an online meeting server, ladders and even tournaments, then I expect it will tear up the sales charts for quite some time and lend the DS its first TRUE system-seller. Right now, my friends who don't own the console find it to be a neat gimmick, but I don't yet have a game I can place in front of them which will cause them to say, "I need to buy this." However, AC online would do that in a heartbeat and MK online would likely do the same.
Maybe Nintendogs could perform the trick, but I'll have to play it before I can make a judgement call and thus I'm not certain. Unless MK and AC are royally botched, then they'll both haul DS systems like nothing else has yet.
-SB
Edit: And no, that was not intended as a pun.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 10, 2005, 06:17:22 PM
So where does that leave the "Tamagotchi" phase in the U.S.?
Post by: mantidor on July 10, 2005, 06:22:37 PM
but I really cant see a 90% goal of online players as a realistic number.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 10, 2005, 07:21:19 PM
Quote
So where does that leave the "Tamagotchi" phase in the U.S.?
Not to marginalize it by any stretch, but in comparison, the Japanese market eats up the genre in ways the US doesn't. That's purely by comparison, though, and maybe I should check the sales of the game in Japan before I say things like that, but I still don't think 'Dogs will be the truly "killer app" that AC or MK would be in the US and Europe.
I don't expect 90% of DS users to be online. I think that's a heinously unrealistic number, but I credit Nintendo for shooting for it and I believe they've done so because of how much they intend to streamline the process of getting online. I've read a list of the AC features and one of them is to simply enter the town and name of your friend and you can access their town if they've given you specific permission. In other words, no screwing with IP addresses, no setup beyond talking to the Copper at the main gate of the town and saving your friends to your buddy list so they can enter the town again later.
Again, 90% is unrealistic, but they're going to make it as easy as possible.
I think of MK and AC as killer apps because they'll be the first games which will allow Nintendo gamers to either compete or congregate over the internet in a game setting. The online element of the games could easily determine their success. Players who have been hesitant to pick up a DS would probably be brought in by one of the two, be it the die-hard competition of MK or the community-based nature of AC which just became literally hundreds of times larger and more detailed.
In fact, I dare say it's the brand recognition which will sell these games so well. AC was a hit on the cube and Mario Kart is Mario Kart and has been popular since its inception.
I'm not going to shed a single tear if 'Dogs sends DSs flying off the shelf in the US (with all the dog lovers out there, it could be a coiled spring waiting to be unleashed (again, no pun intended)), but I think the game which I'll be able to place in front of any modern gamer which will sell them a DS would either be MK or AC.
Again, I'd love to be wrong, but that's my current prediction.
-SB
Post by: Ian Sane on July 10, 2005, 09:25:10 PM
I think Nintendogs will sell well but it will be to a different groups than the traditional videogame audience. Most people who would consider purchasing the PSP won't give Nintendogs a second look so in that sense it won't be a killer app in that it "steals" PSP userbase. However if it increases the userbase then it could attract more third party support which will "steal" PSP userbase.
Post by: IceCold on July 10, 2005, 11:12:18 PM
And, as Ian said, a big userbase attracts third parties; they don't care if "non gamers" have the console (look at the PS2)
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 11, 2005, 07:11:12 AM
I think MK and AC online will hit a different gamer, mostly the gamer who was once a fan of Nintendo but fell away from the company when they became disappointed with its performance. It could have been a GC drought period or even way back in the day when Shiggy showed the cel-shaded Zelda trailer. I remember IGN reported that they saw the highest number of people go from the GC forums to the Xbox forums on that same day.
I believe these two games would bring some of those players back, with Nintendo finally offering them a real online experience and games which have already been established as solid franchises. There will still be plenty of nay-saying by the aforementioned types who would dismiss Nintendogs as nothing more than another frivolous virtual pet (I've already seen it on forums I visit), but online Mario Kart? How do you dismiss THAT?
Like I said, though, it'd be great if Nintendogs were to fly off the shelves in the US the same way it did in Japan. I'd rub that in the faces of the PSP fanbois...
-SB
Post by: nickmitch on July 11, 2005, 09:16:02 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 11, 2005, 10:04:53 AM
Also, it's my firm belief that Nintendo's games being online brings something to the table which no other company has yet done. Nintendo is best known for its multiplayer mayhem, but a number of its titles are so obvious as potential online games that it's both frustrating and exciting at the same time. When games like Pokemon and Fire Emblem, games which could run over a 2880 baud modem because they're turn based, are passed up because Nintendo believes gamers don't want online play, it's frustrating. However, Reggie admitting that it was a mistake to ignore online play the last time around is a relief, as well as the knowledge that the online Nintendo games ARE coming.
I know there's almost a stigma around the notion of it, but I've always seen Nintendo's online offerings as being so much more than what Sony or MS could ever hope to accomplish. I can play FPSs and racing games online on my PC and I don't have to pay to do so. Games like these have been done and done to death. However, I cannot enjoy a community-themed game with friends (AC), a strategy RP (Fire Emblem), or a MMORPG in which I raise a team of creatures and combat other players and NPCs for the glory of victory (Pokemon).
Maybe I'm over-enthusiastic about it, but I just see Nintendo's franchises going online as something which will provide vastly more entertainment value than previous online console offerings.
-SB
Post by: stevey on July 11, 2005, 12:42:38 PM
It a short list wipe out pure, the game with an evil clown, and the santionist EA sport games. They all came out on relase of the psp and up coming game is a game with zombie the you shoot with your blood and other fluid from you. I know this because of I use to look at G4 but they sold out to sony after the bouth tech tv (that love ms) and now it just one big anit-nintedo place that must be kill.
Post by: nickmitch on July 11, 2005, 03:55:41 PM
Personally, I'm hoping for a rev oniline custom robo. It could work on DS, if they allow you to change items via the touch screen (like how you can use items during play in Bomberman).
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 11, 2005, 05:42:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
So wait, SB, what you're saying is that you're excited that games ARE comming, but you aren't excited about Nintendo's franchises going online? Are you just happy for Nintendo and not yourself?
Personally, I'm hoping for a rev oniline custom robo. It could work on DS, if they allow you to change items via the touch screen (like how you can use items during play in Bomberman).
I mean that I'm damn excited about Nintendo's online titles because I can finally pwn my friends at fishing.
But, in the past, I was frustrated to see games released by Nintendo which would have been so insanely improved by online play: Animal Crossing, SSB, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Battalion Wars, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, etc. etc.
A lot of Nintendo's franchises are original in their design and offer something which I cannot get from Sony or MS's online offerings. The fact that Nintendo is finally taking their systems online is a huge relief as well as a welcome change.
And CR would absolutely rule online. The main problem I found with the game was that everyone needs to understand the game in order to truly do well in multiplayer combat, including the various robos, weapons, bombs, etc. This was difficult to come by, as getting everyone up to speed just didn't work unless you each had the game or had one copy and passed it around to everyone.
Online play would remove that problem in a heartbeat for CR and any other Nintendo franchise. I quiver at the thought of ALWAYS having a competent opponent to fight at the press of a few buttons. I can only imagine that the replay value of these games will increase exponentially for this reason alone.
-SB
