Post by: couchmonkey on June 17, 2005, 10:08:21 AM
Now there's nothing even remotely official about that, but it would be very cool. As a videogame fan that never owned a Sega system, this feature would probably convince me to buy a Revolution regardless of everything else. I hope Nintendo and Sega have actually talked about this.
Anyway, that's my fanboyish fantasy of the day.
Post by: joedick on June 17, 2005, 10:19:52 AM
Post by: jasonditz on June 17, 2005, 10:31:18 AM
Post by: Pale on June 17, 2005, 11:17:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
Probably have to be limited to Master System, Genesis, and maybe (?) 32X. I can't see Nintendo spending the time to create emulators for the convoluted hardware Sega's CD-based systems tended to use.
But can you see Sega doing it?
With the already announced possibility of firmware updates, there is nothing stopping sega from creating one even after the Rev launches. If downloadable retro games proves to be a profitable venture, they may just decide it's worth the time and money.
Sega would be nice, but I'm still waiting for gameboy support.
Classic gameboy support would be nice considering the Micro may not play the old games, plus they are hard to find. Also, assuming the Rev is going to be 'alive' into the next gameboy's life, they could add GBA downloads in the future.
Post by: stevey on June 17, 2005, 11:55:34 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 17, 2005, 12:00:00 PM
The first requires emulators for the Sega consoles. I don't see Nintendo willing to do that kind of work so it's up to Sega to make them and Nintendo has to play ball. You never know with them.
The second requires Sega to pick and choose what they want and then port them to the NES or SNES. These seems like a bunch of unneeded hassle and the results would probably be pretty crappy. That would only happen if Nintendo doesn't play ball or if Sega doesn't do this until after the Rev has launched and there's no way to upload a new emulator to the console.
I would prefer and expect option one though either way I would be concerned of the results. Apparently the Genesis emulator that was used for Sega Smash Pack for the Dreamcast was the sh!ts. Sonic Mega Collection wasn't too bad though. Still if we had two different companies working on the difference emulators there could be an inconsistency in quality. Nintendo is going to set a certain standard and Sega has to match it.
Plus there's some money issues. What about third party games on Sega consoles? If Sega makes the emulator and third parties release games that use it shouldn't Sega get a cut? I doubt Nintendo would like that. Even if they limited it to Sega's games they would only need to use Nintendo's download service. Everyone else has to use the service and Nintendo's emulators. So in that case it would make sense for Sega to have a lower fee for just using the service. This would also freak Nintendo out. They don't like sharing money. For Nintendo it's easier if they have complete control of everything.
If you really think about why limit it Nintendo and Sega? Why not get MAME involved and then third parties can distribute classic arcade games as well? Damn, I think I just gave Sony and MS a great idea.
Post by: nolimit19 on June 17, 2005, 01:16:03 PM
Post by: jasonditz on June 17, 2005, 01:23:59 PM
Post by: stevey on June 17, 2005, 03:12:07 PM
That done on sega web site somewear I'm to lazy to link Sega is for japan selling rom of old game. Well it more like renting them but sill for 1.25 or ""sega buck"" you can get all the game for a day so emulators for the consoles is already done.
Post by: Pale on June 17, 2005, 03:40:45 PM
They already have an emulator that runs on GCN hardware... If the Rev is as similar as everyone says it is, they are set.. right?
Post by: Djunknown on June 17, 2005, 05:14:54 PM
Quote
For Nintendo it's easier if they have complete control of everything.
While Nintendo has started to make some internal changes starting with the DS, I don't expect them to stop being control freaks anytime soon.
Quote
Plus there's some money issues. What about third party games on Sega consoles?
One could ask the same thing about 3rd party games on Nintendo consoles? For the time being, it'd be a hassle to track down all those licences, at least legally. Some of those companies maybe out of business (or bought out), so does it become public domain? Abandonware becomes a sticky issue...
Now to add my pipe dream to the mix: SNK puts up all their Neo-Geo games on the Rev. 'Nuff said. Ippon!
Post by: nickmitch on June 17, 2005, 05:43:25 PM
Post by: BlackGriffen on June 17, 2005, 08:24:27 PM
So it is possible, but certainly more trouble than it's worth, as Ian noted. Especially since multiple searches on Google indicate that there are emulators for every system SEGA ever made, including GameGear, SegaCD, and the 32x (Genesis addon). And all of them were made without the detailed technical knowledge that engineers at SEGA would have at their disposal. Many of them are also open source, so SEGA could even piggy back their effort.
That said, even though it would be nice for SEGA to do this, they would likely also bring their emulators and such to the other consoles to maximize their own profits. Since all the next gen consoles will be PowerPC based, it should take a minimal effort on SEGA's part. I wouldn't, therefor, count on it becoming a Rev advantage, if it's done at all.
BlackGriffen
Post by: BlackGriffen on June 17, 2005, 08:26:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Couldn't Sega put the emulators on a game disk so that you could just play the downladed games?
Even easier - make the emulators freely downloadable 'games'.
BG
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 17, 2005, 08:32:41 PM
QuoteNow there is someone who is thinking on their toes.
Originally posted by: BlackGriffenQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
Couldn't Sega put the emulators on a game disk so that you could just play the downladed games?
Even easier - make the emulators freely downloadable 'games'.
BG
Post by: nemo_83 on June 17, 2005, 09:29:33 PM
This would be awesome. Could it be possible, the DreamCast will even get a chance to live again?
What about NeoGeo or even WonderSwan games too?! Nintendo could make a killing liscencing this out to third parties. It won't be long before Namco, Capcom, Square, Konami, Tecmo, and more will allow their games to be included in the download service.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 17, 2005, 10:02:26 PM
Post by: Savior on June 17, 2005, 10:23:06 PM
Master System, Genesis, and Maybe 32X would be fine though. Love to get me some Zillion, and Alex Kidd. Oh and Some SHinobi? Wow.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 18, 2005, 03:28:01 AM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 18, 2005, 05:29:53 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on June 18, 2005, 07:09:14 AM
But still, this being Sega I'd expect a worst case scenario.
Post by: BlackGriffen on June 18, 2005, 07:57:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Savior
Theres no Saturn Emulator made yet. Which is a shame. Id kill for some Nights, or some Panzeer Dragoon.
Master System, Genesis, and Maybe 32X would be fine though. Love to get me some Zillion, and Alex Kidd. Oh and Some SHinobi? Wow.
Use the Google, Savior.
At least, there are several links that claim to go to Saturn emulators.
BlackGriffen
Post by: jasonditz on June 18, 2005, 10:43:00 AM
Post by: stevey on June 18, 2005, 11:21:23 AM
That is the most evilist thing anyone can do! Music is ok to, tv show only if you cant buy them/old, movie are wroge, and game you downloading game go to hell think of 150+ poeple working day and night for over a year with no beaks being fired
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 18, 2005, 12:01:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Black: Only if their implementation differs from traditional emulation in a non-obvious way. Just putting a new name on it won't do the job. Consoles emulating consoles isn't a new concept, modded XBoxes do that, for example.
But still, this being Sega I'd expect a worst case scenario.
But they don't do it legally, and no other 'console' has done it legally so maybe there is a way for Nintendo to atleast make the feature time-exclusive.
Post by: jasonditz on June 18, 2005, 12:55:15 PM
Kind of like how Apple didn't invent downloading music, but by "doing it right" they're the ones making the bulk of the money off of it.
Post by: nickmitch on June 18, 2005, 06:20:53 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on June 18, 2005, 08:59:21 PM
TVman: Yes but the iPod would NEVER have been this popular if users couldn't download 20GBs of MP3s basically for free. Ripping your music collection and adding your iTunes songs would cost (20GB/3MB=6826 songs, *1 US dollar per song...) 6826 US dollars to get 20GBs together. Like anyone's going to do that.
Post by: WindyMan on June 18, 2005, 09:16:58 PM
However, this isn't going to happen. The second you put on Genesis emulation for Sega's games, third parties will probably want to throw in their Genesis games in too. Then Nintendo runs the risk of having Genesis games sell better than SNES games on the download service.
We can all dream, though.
Post by: Talon on June 19, 2005, 12:16:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: WindyMan
However, this isn't going to happen. The second you put on Genesis emulation for Sega's games, third parties will probably want to throw in their Genesis games in too. Then Nintendo runs the risk of having Genesis games sell better than SNES games on the download service.
You will probably find that 3rd parties would have to pay a fee to nintendo for use of the download service which is then passed on to the consumer.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 19, 2005, 12:35:18 AM
Post by: Pale on June 19, 2005, 06:50:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Especially in the US with its low standards of living.
Huwhat? Political commentary er what?
Anyway, I don't see why Nintendo would be upset if other people got on board. Obviously they want it to happen, otherwise they wouldn't have stressed every game at E3. What is the difference between releasing a third party game for the NES or a Sega game for the Genesis?
Post by: Talon on June 19, 2005, 08:30:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
What is the difference between releasing a third party game for the NES or a Sega game for the Genesis?
The difference will be there is a NES emulator in the Revolution but there is no Genesis emulator in the revolution. For nintendo to include a genisis emulator in the Revolution they would have to pay SEGA for the emulator and then probably have to pay some sort of license fee for each rom. Could get quite expensive.
Post by: Pale on June 19, 2005, 08:35:14 PM
Post by: Caillan on June 19, 2005, 08:41:17 PM
Quote
Huwhat? Political commentary er what?
What was political about that statement?
Quote
Then Nintendo runs the risk of having Genesis games sell better than SNES games on the download service.
Nintendo has embarrassed themselves so regularly over the last two generations with stupid decisions and worse advertising that they won't care. Nobody else would anyway. I think that the main object of the downlodable games is to provide more of a reason to buy a Revolution and keep the fans satisfied, not to make lots of money from them then bragging about it. Having Sega on boaard won't be detrimental to their goal at all.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 20, 2005, 02:52:26 AM
The cost of keeping your livestyle is much lower in the US than most other industrial nations (we call that living standard here). Just recently I overheard two Americans complaining about the prices here ("for one dollar fifty you can get a Bigmac, here they ask for almost four dollars!"). The US is just MUCH cheaper to live in. Cheap gas, cheap food, cheap games, etc. Go to the UK or Sweden and have a look at the prices there, you'll be SHOCKED.
Talon: The point of this discussion is that Sega themselves decide to contribute the emulator in order to get in on the money making. After all, Sega is pretty much the only one with a huge portfolio of old games and no NES/SNES/N64 releases.
Post by: stevey on June 20, 2005, 03:43:29 AM
I don't think sega or nintendo care who out sell who in the rom because they know once S.E. get on with ff they have the full win.
"they would have to pay SEGA for the emulator and then probably have to pay some sort of license fee for each rom."
No sega would be happy to sell there old game for money and no work that all they do now. I bet there begging to put it on the rev.
"The US is just MUCH cheaper to live in. Cheap gas, cheap food, cheap games, etc. Go to the UK or Sweden and have a look at the prices there, you'll be SHOCKED."
So we have to pay more for drugs! $100 a pill! go to cannada them free! WTF! WTF! WTF!
Post by: Ian Sane on June 20, 2005, 07:46:56 AM
They're not free. We have a federal sales tax. The US doesn't. That's why we have "free" health care.
"Nintendo has embarrassed themselves so regularly over the last two generations with stupid decisions and worse advertising that they won't care. Nobody else would anyway."
I would assume that Nintendo would care BECAUSE they've been making stupid decisions. Nobody else would do a lot of the stuff Nintendo does. It doesn't make sense to care if Genesis games sell better but that doesn't mean Nintendo wouldn't. It doesn't make sense to be a stubborn jerk towards third parties when you're in last place with no leverage and need to improve third party support but that hasn't stopped Nintendo.
Though realistically I can't think of any sane person who would purchase the Genesis version of a game over the SNES one. Aside from EA games 99% of the time the SNES had the better version.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 20, 2005, 08:14:28 AM
Post by: vudu on June 20, 2005, 09:20:40 AM
Post by: stevey on June 20, 2005, 09:33:45 AM
No, MS want you to pay $70 for a game with everything lock and want you to pay for unlocking them. They don't care about last gen game or they would let people play xbox game.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 20, 2005, 10:05:52 AM
When did I say anything about Genesis EXCLUSIVES like Gunstar Heroes? Of course it makes sense to buy Genesis exclusives over non-existant SNES versions.
"I'm kind of surprised no one's brought up the idea that Microsoft could strike a deal with Sega to bring Genesis/Saturn/etc games to Xbox 360. It would be a very nice way to combat one of the Revolution's biggest selling points. "
How would that work with Microsoft's "HD only" rule? These old games were not designed for HD so it would probably require a fair bit of extra work to get them to fit the Xbox 360 "standards". Low cost is the whole reason to even do something like this.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 20, 2005, 10:55:29 AM
I could see something like this making Nintendo paranoid and not going for the backwards-Sega-compatibility, but it shouldn't, since Nintendo would probably earn small royalties on all the games sold anyway. It's just one more way to make money.
2. Sega on other consoles:
I was thinking about this too. While it's true Microsoft demands High-Def right now, I bet MS would reconsider for retro games, especially if Revolution backwards compatibility is a hit. All the more reason for Nintendo to greet Sega with open arms, I think. Why not prevent Micrsoft and Sony from coming up with a matching service? If Nintendo also offered Sega backwards compatibility, I don't think the competition would ever be able to come up with something equalling it. The closest they could get is offering the same Sega titles plus a few more obscure consoles.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 20, 2005, 10:00:37 PM
I'm sure if Sega just went to Nintendo and told them they're going to make a Mega Drive emulator for the Rev Nintendo would agree. Not like there'd be much left to do, they already have some form of Mega Drive emulator in the Sonic Mega Collection, probably needs just a few improvements to make it work with all games and it's good to go. the MD is backwards compatible with the MS hardware-wise so it should work even for MS games.
Post by: stevey on June 21, 2005, 02:01:23 PM
I can only name two sega game that will out sell every nintendo game GOLDEN AXE 1&2!!!!!!!!!!!
*drooling a river* "Sega to render their 320x240 (probably lower) images in full 1920x1080p glory so ignorant casuals can claim it looks much better with a HDTV."
so maybe that why nintendo not doing hd I know I wroge so don't rub it in my face. I just puting it out there.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on June 21, 2005, 02:56:37 PM
Post by: nickmitch on June 21, 2005, 05:59:08 PM
Post by: ThePerm on June 21, 2005, 10:22:29 PM
"Now we can make money"...also "we'll create sammy virtul pachinco!"
Post by: couchmonkey on June 23, 2005, 07:17:22 AM
I agree that it will also be a nice distraction during the post-launch drought, but I hope Nintendo has more planned than relying on a bunch of 15 year old games, because I don't think that will look so great if Sony and MS are releasing tons of new games. There's no way to stop a post-launch drought (unless you can muster 10-20 internally-developed games) but you can make it better by releasing a few big-name titles and marketing them appropriately.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 23, 2005, 08:40:41 AM
I had a Sega Master System back in the day and there are tons of games that are terrific.
I still believe that backwards compatiability at a reasonable price will be a HUGE selling point for Nintendo. Most people did not keep all of their games and game systems. If they can buy for a dollar or 2 dollars a classic game they enjoyed as a kid they will.
It also helps capture the nongaming audience that may remember the arcade games from yesterday and want to play those, but not new games.
Post by: vudu on June 24, 2005, 09:12:33 AM
One part that struck me was this:
QuoteIf I'm interpreting this right, it sounds as if Sega had a virtual console for DreamCast, much like the future one for Revolution. This is the first I've ever heard of this service. Can anyone confirm or deny its existence? How did it work?
In Japan, [Sega] rode the Dreamcast-based emulation wave with the DreamLibrary service, which allowed users to download most of the Genesis' library for play on the new system.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 24, 2005, 09:15:46 AM
Excelent.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 24, 2005, 11:36:20 AM
Post by: nickmitch on June 24, 2005, 08:26:28 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on June 25, 2005, 07:42:37 AM
Post by: JonLeung on June 27, 2005, 06:11:52 PM
One thing I didn't see mentioned here was that with third-party games, and Sega games, and third-party games for Sega consoles, and whatever else they could scrounge up that would be worth the trouble (other region games?), Nintendo would have a monopoly on the past. A good-sized chunk of gaming history in a little package.
And while some people would see that as a knock against Nintendo, appearing to be "living in the past", any older gamer who's been gaming most of their lives will have to have some nostalgia for something if the Revolution can emulate Sega games as well as Nintendo games. If older people are buying the Revolution for the classics, they might pay attention to new games that come out for it. Most of the people that I've talked to that don't support the 'Cube simply aren't aware of the games for it. But if they had one, they would look and listen for Nintendo games instead of tuning it out.
Penetration into the older market this way via the classics might be a certain strategy. A 25-year-old might not be too excited about a game like Super Mario Sunshine, but they might be longing for that old copy of Super Mario Bros. 3. Or, as in the case of discussion, some Sonic The Hedgehog 2.
Monopoly of old games = good for Nintendo.
Older market's interest piqued = good for Nintendo.
Old Sega games possibly selling better than Nintendo's? = inconsequential, IMO. Getting that monopoly is worth any amount of retro-pride. Besides, I doubt it would happen.
The question is if it's worth surmounting the legal and technical issues surrounding it, and I know it's easy for me to say, but I'd say so. Many Nintendo gamers have played the best Nintendo games, multiple times, even. Playing a few Sega games and paying Nintendo a bit for the privilege of doing so can't hurt Nintendo one bit.
Nintendo still hasn't fully shown its hand. We don't know the true revolutionary nature of the Revolution, whether it's just in the controller or something else altogether, but we can see from this game download service alone that they have at least one ace up their sleeve. They just have to play it with the right combination.
