Post by: MaxXUnlimited on May 25, 2005, 01:33:28 PM
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"The PlayStation [3] is not a game machine. We've never once called it a game machine," stated Kutaragi at the beginning of his latest interview.
"The PS3 is the product we have been aiming for since the establishment of SCEI," said Kutaragi. "We haven't been creating our [past] PlayStations for the sake of games. Our belief, and the motivation behind running our company, has been to [explore ways of] applying the power of computers to entertainment and enjoyment. We equipped the original PlayStation with a 3D graphics chip, and we equipped the PS2 with the Emotion engine. The PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children.
Source
Oh this is sad... so very sad.... I don't think gaming should go this way.... I'm beginning to think that another crash is more and more inevitable. We've been hearing about it for years, it happened once (1983) it can happen again.
Post by: King of Twitch on May 25, 2005, 01:47:29 PM
If there's going to be a crash, I imagine it would be a crash of game developers going bankrupt trying to compete with competitors over increasingly flashy games and non-game buying console users.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 25, 2005, 01:52:33 PM
Ian makes a good point a few posts down! Sony has customers while Nintendo has fans. This strategy is not a good one for fans or potential fans, and if Ken vocalizes his view like this, it can't do anything but hurt. Right now Sony is being very arrogant, which will end up hurting them quite a bit.
Post by: darknight06 on May 25, 2005, 01:56:28 PM
"The PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children."
And this quote just burns me up more than anything. F*ck Sony and their entire electronics brand.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2005, 01:58:21 PM
The mainstream is all about novelty and fads. They'll like something for a few years and then completely dump it later on. The hardcore is what keeps you afloat between fads. It's the reason why New Kids members are on the Surreal Life while Iron Maiden is still selling records and selling out shows despite having virtually no mainstream radio airplay. Nintendo has real fans. If Sony isn't careful they won't and then some day they're going to be totally f*cked.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 25, 2005, 02:20:36 PM
This is the only alternative Nintendo has to making games for nongamers. Personally, I prefer Nintendo's approach.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2005, 02:26:14 PM
This is the only alternative Nintendo has to making games for nongamers. Personally, I prefer Nintendo's approach."
How is Nintendo's method any different? Both methods alienate hardcore gamers for another group. Gamers who know what Herzog Zwei is aren't going to cause a crash. Guys who play nothing but Madden are. So the strategy of these companies to avoid a game crash is to stop targeting the core gaming fans that will never lose interest in gaming? That's lunacy. Turning away the hardcore is what will cause a crash because all that will be left will the fad gamers and when they lose interest *CRASH*.
Post by: MaxXUnlimited on May 25, 2005, 02:37:44 PM
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How is Nintendo's method any different?
Well at least Nintendo's method still involves games. I think games like Nintendogs and Electroplankton are a much better way to do it then just adding Digi-cam and MP3 (expensive) extras.
Post by: jasonditz on May 25, 2005, 02:42:37 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 25, 2005, 03:19:01 PM
Post by: Djunknown on May 25, 2005, 04:01:41 PM
Simply put, the next gen is theirs to lose. If the PS3 is this all purpose entertainment center, they're either going to A) Charge a hefty amount, SCEI will spin the facts by saying you're not buying a game machine, justifying its price tag or B) Pull a PSP by fooling the analysts, journalists and gamers themselves with a compromise, yet taking a loss.
We'll see if this logic holds water when the time comes.
Post by: anubis6789 on May 25, 2005, 04:51:39 PM
I am also going to use this time to voice my disagrement with Ian. I think that Nintendo's stance to target the "non-gamer"is not going to leave hardcore gamers behind. In all actuality Nintendo only seems to want to make games simple, in otherwards easier to understand.
I will give you a good example of a "hardcore" simple game: Contra. I know mothers and fathers who don't play games except with there children and this is there favorite game ever. It is a very easy game to get into and there really is not much to it except kill everything. Heck they even know the Konami code(just not by that name), and to me that is enough to be considered any kind of gamer.
It is true that the "hardcore" won't cause the crash, at least not by themselves anyway. Mainly they will do it because of their elitist whinning will be heard by the devs. The dev will then continue to make games more complex and as a side effect more unaccessable to new people to enjoy. Also the constant snobbery that the "hardcore" lays on to everything deemed not hardcore scares people away from ever wanting to play games.
Ian did you always know what Herzog Zwei was?
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on May 25, 2005, 06:27:14 PM
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on May 25, 2005, 07:25:46 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on May 25, 2005, 08:07:48 PM
But just in case you are not joking (which is OK, nobody knows everything) its an old Genesis RTS.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 25, 2005, 08:58:48 PM
Everything's going to be okay, Ian. Nintendo doesn't love them like they love you. They're just doing it to earn the money they need to keep you happy.
Post by: ThePerm on May 25, 2005, 08:59:51 PM
Their GAME SYSTEMS
that is what makes the differene between a console and a computer. One is meant soley for playing games and the other is meant for multipurpose processes. It pisses me off. The whole console industry and the pc industry were always opposed to each other until the playstation. They evolved in their different generations..ut now their coming back together. Honesty.....I DONT THINK GAMERS WANT THIS.
it reaks havoc on the pc industry too...why because its going to be competing with it.
Nintendo is making Game Consoles. Sony and Microsoft are trying to make computers.
god i wish reggie would say that.
Post by: Caillan on May 25, 2005, 09:01:37 PM
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This also furthers my own belief that a crash is coming, and I am very surprised that I am the only one seeing a crash comming.
I've believed that the next gen will have a bit of a crash for a while now. But because it's nothng much more than a hunch I can't really argue my case very well.
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How is Nintendo's method any different? Both methods alienate hardcore gamers for another group.
Well so far all evidence completely contradicts your theory. If Nintendogs was a half-assed tamagotchi clone it wouldn't have got 40/40 from Famitsu. Seriously, if a game is good, its good, and it doesn't matter who the target audience is. If Nintendo didn't cite Electroplankton as a 'non-game' you'd never complain about it. It would just be niche instead. And finally Nintendo is making some sort of multimedia dictionary apps which will cost them almost nothing, just like Electroplankton did. Honestly, the people who know what Herzog Zwei is probably don't care how the games are labelled/marketed as long as they're good. So far they have been.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 25, 2005, 09:16:54 PM
Ok, I'll say a little more.
Why can't Nintendo cater to both the hardcore and the non-gamers? Is it really that hard? The DS will have a fantastic year. Why? Because of its diversity. There is literally something for everybody. I expect to hear great things come Christmas. Xbox be damned.
What's wrong with using the same philosophy for the REV? It's brilliant, really.
The REV controller could open up the same possibilities the DS has: easy developed, easily/intuitively played, rich games.
How fun would an archery game be? It woudl focus on one aspect of the controller, much like the DS and it's touch-screen. A whole game based on gyration aiming that could potential be very, very fun. Simple, yet fun....that's Nintendo's answer.
That's not to say, they won't bring any complex games to the table. SSB: Online has been confirmed, along with Zelda, Mario, and Metriod. What further proof do you need?
Post by: anubis6789 on May 25, 2005, 09:28:52 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on May 25, 2005, 11:16:34 PM
They split with SK to persue smaller games. The REV prototype is wifi only, no net port. The download service attracts a lot of different types of gamers including Nintendo fans, but what about the fans and general hardcore gamers who are not fanboys of Nintendo. They just respect them. What about the fans who already own these games who want a console with new content, something Sony and MS have not shown. What about how Nintendo's DS' library thus far has left a lot to the imagination. Or how this year may see the release of only two or three games on Cube I would consider buying in Zelda and RE4? Or how there may be only two or three games that I'm interested in even renting like Geist, Star Fox Armada, and Fire Emblem. I hope this new Cube Wars rocks, I can't remember the new title of it or when it will come out; but the videos looked awesome. The point is though there better be a lot of software coming for REV because it is for damn sure noone is releasing Cube games. What can Nintendo do to keep hardcore gamers? They could start by buying a new company to make original mature games for REV and fill the gap left by SK.
Post by: Deguello on May 26, 2005, 12:46:54 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2005, 12:58:00 AM
Post by: jasonditz on May 26, 2005, 06:46:20 AM
Sony, Microsoft, and even Panasonic and Philips before them... they were never about the games. The video game console has always been a means to an end for all of them. You guys ever listen to a Microsoft investor's conference? They're not touting the popularity of Halo, I can tell you that. Its all about using the Xbox to "get our foot in the door", or "gain a presence in the family rooms of middle america". Sony's the same way, this is just the most publicly they've ever said so.
And in all fairness, they have to be. Look at what happened this generation. The PS2 was way more of a retail success than Sony ever had a right to expect. Did it make them any money? Not really. You guys may not remember this, but early in the PS2's life, when they were taking an absolute financial beating, many of the major investors were calling on Sony to pull the plug on their video game hardware division.
The truth is, the only really profitable video game hardware makers have always been the ones that have strong first party lineups. That's something Sony's never had, and never really tried to create.
But I wonder what a company like Square Enix thinks of all this. Their success is now almost totally dependent on Sony's game machines... now Sony says those machines aren't "for games". I'd be awfully nervous at statements like that, because somewhere along the line they will be used to justify moves with the hardware that are good for Sony's vision and bad for game companies.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2005, 09:04:11 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2005, 12:06:09 PM
The same is true with Microsoft and the Xbox 360. They are adding features that can be used, but once again the system is mainly a gaming device. But with each generation that buys the hardware and gets comfortable with the new features available to them Microsoft and Sony hook a buyer for life.
I also don't think Nintendo not including an ethernet port is that big of a deal. Next year all around large cities will become completely wifi enabled and supported. Hot Spots are popping up everywhere. Wireless hubs are also becoming cheaper, and in many situations FREE when you order DSL or Cable internet. Nintendo is noticing this trend and is saving money by just going with where technology will be in a year.
Besides those gamers that are purchasing for online gaming, are not average gamers, they are hardcore gamers that will buy or already have this equipment ready for gaming...and truth be told probably perfer it. I know I don't want to have cables all over my house, and my game system and computer will always be located in different rooms.
Basically both these issues are really NONISSUES.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 26, 2005, 04:29:25 PM
Nintendo could **** this up by releasing a horrible controller. I can see the faces of gamers as the curtain is lifted and there is nothing about the controller especially special other than missing parts. Gaming may be over for five to ten years as we know it. The industry could crash. I've been saying this for a long time though, and am glad I am not alone in this fear. Once I offered three ways to survive a crash. Making the next system able to download games. Making the next system with a revolutionary controller. Making the next system able to make games as well as play them.
If Nintendo doesn't deliver a revolution, then the market is doomed to Sony's and MS' stale future. I have yet to see a single cel shaded game on either of their next generation systems. All their games have the same look and they all look plastic. The 360's character models don't impress, same graphics as RE4 with more characters on screen does not wow me.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 26, 2005, 06:24:20 PM
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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think you people are making too much of these quotes. I think what Sony and Microsoft are doing is creating systems that are gaming machines, and will be used first and foremost as gaming machines, but they are hoping that use will get them into the homes to make sell their other products and services with the hardware. Like Sony wants the PS3 to be your next generation DVD player...but that won't prevent you from playing games or Sony from making great games on it. Sony is just multi-tasking.
The same is true with Microsoft and the Xbox 360. They are adding features that can be used, but once again the system is mainly a gaming device. But with each generation that buys the hardware and gets comfortable with the new features available to them Microsoft and Sony hook a buyer for life.
I also don't think Nintendo not including an ethernet port is that big of a deal. Next year all around large cities will become completely wifi enabled and supported. Hot Spots are popping up everywhere. Wireless hubs are also becoming cheaper, and in many situations FREE when you order DSL or Cable internet. Nintendo is noticing this trend and is saving money by just going with where technology will be in a year.
Besides those gamers that are purchasing for online gaming, are not average gamers, they are hardcore gamers that will buy or already have this equipment ready for gaming...and truth be told probably perfer it. I know I don't want to have cables all over my house, and my game system and computer will always be located in different rooms.
Basically both these issues are really NONISSUES.
Ken, in reference to gaming in general, said the PS3 was not a computer for children.
We're not "making too much" of these qoutes, we're just reading them.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2005, 11:29:30 PM
Post by: Dasmos on May 27, 2005, 04:20:53 AM
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Originally posted by: Deguello
WTF? You type too much, man.
Agreed.....remember KISS (Keep It Super Simple) Nemo........
BTW, The PS3 is definately not a childrens computer, It's a fancy online-enalbled sandwich press
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 27, 2005, 05:25:25 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 27, 2005, 07:21:30 AM
Post by: Galford on May 27, 2005, 08:10:14 AM
Also, Ken brought network/grid computing again, I guess Sony is serious about it. Maybe that's what the 1 redundant SPE on Cell is used for...
Post by: denjet78 on May 27, 2005, 09:36:55 AM
...
OH HELL NO! THIS MEANS WAR!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 27, 2005, 01:57:54 PM
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Originally posted by: DasmosQuote
Originally posted by: Deguello
WTF? You type too much, man.
Agreed.....remember KISS (Keep It Super Simple) Nemo........
BTW, The PS3 is definately not a childrens computer, It's a fancy online-enalbled sandwich press
By U.S. Navy SEAL definitions, it can mean "Keep it Simple, Stupid".
Post by: ThePerm on May 27, 2005, 02:21:41 PM
Post by: vudu on May 31, 2005, 08:48:55 AM
Post by: TMW on May 31, 2005, 12:20:50 PM
Reggie's all about the customer and fan base, "I'm here to kick ass and we're here to make games." and all that...and Ken is all "The PSP is perfect if you don't like it you're stupid." and "The PS3 is not for children, stupid."
Seriously. Is he -trying- to piss off consumers? It's freakin stupid sounding to me. "Lets piss off the people that held us afloat while we were selling inferior hardware at a loss. That will make money!"
Post by: Arbok on May 31, 2005, 01:39:23 PM
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Originally posted by: TMW
Seriously. Is he -trying- to piss off consumers? It's freakin stupid sounding to me. "Lets piss off the people that held us afloat while we were selling inferior hardware at a loss. That will make money!"
Makes one wonder why Sony isn't generating a surplus each year, instead of going further into debt...
Post by: nickmitch on May 31, 2005, 07:42:11 PM
Post by: darknight06 on June 01, 2005, 04:50:47 AM
OMG, screw you Kutaragi.
Post by: Robotor on June 01, 2005, 08:34:42 AM
F Sony.
Post by: jasonditz on June 01, 2005, 08:41:26 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on June 01, 2005, 08:45:41 AM
Kutaragi considers gamers to be a niche market, as opposed to technogeeks who want to have an all-in-one center, which constitutes the majority.
I wish there was some way to flatter him into printing some of his quotes on every PS3 box.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 01, 2005, 09:09:41 AM
I think what he is saying is that gamers are a single market consumer. They are buying your product to play games and that is it. They are a large market, but not as large as we like to think. Think about it...if a game sells a million copies it is said to be huge...but in the grand scheme of things a million units is peanuts.
Techno Geeks are a larger market that includes gamers, but also includes technophiles that want the latest and greatest. When you add features like DVD playback, TIVO, MP3 playback, and such the logic is you are broading your potential consumers exponentially. And you know what...usually that logic is CORRECT.
The statement isn't a disregard of gamers, as much as a realization that to broad the market, and to grow to become bigger than the PS2 is currently you have to make your product appeal to even larger amounts of people.
In this case make a product (PS3, PSP) that appeals to the gamer, but also appeals to other markets. (Portable MP3 player, Portable movies, Portable mini-computer, High Defination movies, ect.)
These statements might be alarming and offensive to pure gamers, but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Everyone is really blowing it out of proportion and taking it out of context and kinda personally as well.
Post by: OptimusPrime on June 01, 2005, 09:26:31 AM
And there are allready multmediacenters but there more like multimediacontrolcenters. You can hook up a DVD-player, a tv, your superall-surround set, a VCR, a CD-player, even bloody 50-year old cassete players on it and all that stuff is connected with each other.
That's what technogeeks want, a lot of masters and then hook it up with the master of "hooking-everything-up". The PS3 is none of that. Ken, go get a reality-shot really.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 01, 2005, 09:32:07 AM
Another thing is that the PS3 will be the best at playing HD-DVDs when it comes out. It will be one of the few players out on the market, and will probably only be marginally more expensive than other HD-DVD players.
We will see how it happens.
Sony and Nintendo are both trying to broaden the market, but they are both using completely different philosophies to reach the goal. It will be interesting to see which wins.
Oh, and it appears Microsoft is actually taking a middle ground approach to Sony and Nintendo's.
Post by: Arbok on June 01, 2005, 09:50:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
In this case make a product (PS3, PSP) that appeals to the gamer, but also appeals to other markets. (Portable MP3 player, Portable movies, Portable mini-computer, High Defination movies, ect.)
These statements might be alarming and offensive to pure gamers, but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Everyone is really blowing it out of proportion and taking it out of context and kinda personally as well.
I think we all just realize how the gaming market works. Sony doesn't make money off selling the system, they lose a good deal actually. Selling to a consumer who really isn't interested in playing games, hence not really interested in buying many games, doesn't seem like a strategy of success... unless Sony just wants to tout the number of systems sold compared to the others, or actually plans to profit off the sales of the console itself.
Catering to people who are quick to adopt new technology, and will likely only buy a couple games for a console, while not focusing on those who tend to go out and purchase a new video game every month or so seems to be a pretty poor strategy, unless I'm missing something.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 01, 2005, 10:11:34 AM
That makes sense to me. Hell that's my whole arguement on why I don't think Nintendo should focus that much on non-gamers. But Sony does have something Nintendo doesn't. They make money from other things besides games They also make movies and have their own record label. So they in theory they can benefit from someone buying a PS3 and just using it for movies and music. It's still a pretty dumb strategy though since Sony doesn't make money from every CD, MP3, or DVD sold like they do with every Playstation game sold.
I think Sony just doesn't get games. Their success in the console industry is largely due to what Nintendo and Sega have done wrong as opposed to what they themselves have done right. Sony got where they are largely by simply not screwing up. MS is the first competitor Sony has faced that isn't tripping on their own dick every five minutes and sure enough the Xbox brand is growing and is eating into the Playstation market share and Sony seems legitmately scared of a competitor for once.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on June 01, 2005, 10:20:45 AM
The non-gamers are the people all the game companies are trying to go for now becuase they know that they already have buyers, just they want more. The type of non gamers is what differentiates them.
Nintendo's are people who just want to have fun
Sony's are competitive jerks who want to poo on everyone
Microsoft's are the PC gamers who hate console gaming (and Frodo)
Post by: nickmitch on June 01, 2005, 09:20:22 PM
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Originally posted by: jasonditz
if the PS3 doesn't support both 8-tracks and laser discs, the terrorists have already won.
Sony: Yes the urban population LOVES 8-tracks. So I thought that'd be a nice thing to add in and it only makes the system sost $40 more! Bringing the total price up to $100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,040 American!
Post by: jasonditz on June 02, 2005, 06:33:30 AM
