Post by: lastexit on May 12, 2005, 05:32:27 PM
The first thing that comes to mind is that they will have backwards compatibility with something MORE than just the original XBox. Dreamcast, perhaps? Certainly not Nintendo and Sega is the only console manufacturer of recent history that's out of the game now. Perhaps they'll have Jaguar games too.
Any other ideas on what this could be?
Lastly, I think the system looks pretty good. Smart move with the industrial designers. It looks clean, finished and modern.
Post by: Savior on May 12, 2005, 05:35:09 PM
its probably just negotating with Nvidea to get the chips in cause nobody has Sega games anymore.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 12, 2005, 05:38:29 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 12, 2005, 05:40:22 PM
Why!? Backwards-Compatibility should be EXPECTED considering Sony and Ninty are doing it...Never Happening!
Post by: Shecky on May 12, 2005, 05:57:14 PM
Backwards compatability is likely something they "won't talk about" period
Post by: Caliban on May 12, 2005, 06:02:05 PM
About xbox360 back-compatibility, I agree with KN that most likely microsoft will show something of the "Bleem" type however does that not be enough for nvidia to still stop xbox360 from playing xbox games? After all it would be emulation and as so it is illegal, or is it illegal to a certain extent?!
Post by: Strell on May 12, 2005, 06:02:57 PM
That would be a good indicator of backward compatability, but of course we'll know for sure in a few days...
Post by: Shecky on May 12, 2005, 06:19:42 PM
Or maybe the ability to download a version of the game that had been ported to the 360
DC emulating the original playstation is one thing, 360 emulating the Xbox is not practical
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 12, 2005, 06:54:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Savior
Or they dont want to deny it now to hurt sales...
its probably just negotating with Nvidea to get the chips in cause nobody has Sega games anymore.
http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-co...1E81954E91B4%7D
Quote
Nvidia, the graphics chipmaker, said on Thursday it was ending shipments of chips for Microsoft's Xbox game console in the current quarter as what was once one of its biggest customers moved on to its next-generation machine.
Microsoft is expected to release the Xbox 360 in November, featuring a graphics chip from rival ATI. Microsoft had informed Nvidia it would not take any more product after Nvidia's second quarter, ending August 1.
The news was a clear indication that Microsoft was cutting off production of the old Xbox and of the imminent release of its successor.
No way is MS getting chips to put in 360 especially not with NV working w/ Sony now.
Their only bet is to work out an emulation deal, or "accidentally" leave a loop hole that allows X360 to somehow emulate Xbox1 w/ a clause of deniablilty <does that make sense?>
Post by: Shecky on May 12, 2005, 07:08:18 PM
I mean it's an entire nvidia GPU were talking about here...
Post by: Savior on May 12, 2005, 07:11:07 PM
Quote
360's dashboard and Fable is listed.
1. Xbox and Xbox 360 Live are compatible
2.Fable is Live Aware
3.Bingo!!!
Theres no confirmation of BC yet.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 12, 2005, 08:31:15 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 12, 2005, 08:38:39 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 13, 2005, 02:40:44 AM
Post by: Galford on May 14, 2005, 07:17:43 PM
Also, about the Reggie heads, I don't know if I should laugh or cry?
Post by: KDR_11k on May 14, 2005, 09:01:43 PM
Post by: Shecky on May 16, 2005, 07:35:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
If anything there may be re-releases of popular games, ported for the Xbox360
Bingo...
"Xbox 360 officially will be backward compatible with the prior system's top-selling games, said Microsoft's Vice President Peter Moore. "
Post by: Shecky on May 17, 2005, 04:35:28 PM
Then the, "See, emulation!" started to arise. However you don't emulate with any efficiency in this environment....
Rather, I can almost 100% guarantee this is the way it's going to work.
Certain games of choice (::cough:: halo for one) will be ported to the 360 - basically anything that is platform dependant... what's not platform dependant you say? Your textures, maps, etc... That information will be obtained from the original xbox game disc. So you download this "port/re-release" to your 360 most likely via your Xbox Siver (or if they want to get cute, paying Xbox Gold) account. In order to play the game you still need to insert your original xbox game disc. This method would allow them to provide the downloaded content _free_ since you need the original game disc, thus proving you own the original title.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 18, 2005, 02:19:39 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on May 18, 2005, 05:33:40 AM
Post by: Nephilim on May 18, 2005, 06:57:50 PM
Like SP didnt support some GB games (dkland ect.)
Post by: KDR_11k on May 19, 2005, 06:01:11 AM
Some rumors even have it that MS is going to sell the games "reissued" for the X360 (i.e. with X360 binaries instead of XB) at budget price. I wonder which way they are going to pick? (probably premium Live downloads...)
EDIT: Oh and let's not forget the legal desaster that would be recompiling third party titles. This will be at least as limited as the Revolution's old game support.
Post by: Shecky on May 19, 2005, 08:35:30 PM
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=5034
KDR hit the 2 likely options on the nose... either a reissue of a game, or a Live download (like I outlined in my last post)
and you *know* Halo will be on the list of titles they do
Post by: Ian Sane on May 19, 2005, 08:43:16 PM
Note to Microsoft: It's not backwards compatibility if I have to rebuy the game. That's like saying the GBA was "partially backwards compatible" with the SNES.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 20, 2005, 04:27:49 AM
IOW, they'll probably throw in a few new Live! features and justify calling that a new game. Just like they did with their operating systems for quite some time now.
Post by: Artimus on May 20, 2005, 12:46:26 PM
Quote
Microsoft has cleared up the rumours that were floating about about alleged X-Box & 360 backwards compatibility.
Easlier reports that "some key titles would be backwards compatible" has been exposed as mosly-untrue.
Microsoft tech people have reconfirmed that direct compatibility would be impossible due to hardware conflicts...
Microsoft spokespeople also rules out any form of emulation, explaining that any X-Box games would have to be totally recompiled for the 360.
...
Yes, MS plan to re-release some of this generation's biggest titles in their new format.
http://games.insidepulse.com/articles/37795
Post by: Arbok on May 31, 2005, 08:05:47 PM
Source: British industry news site Gamesindustry.biz.
The official story: See below.
What we heard: Microsoft carefully parsed its words about the Xbox 360's backward compatibility by saying it will be "backward-compatible with top-selling Xbox games." So when Gamesindustry.biz published an article revealing the console's radically different hardware couldn't support current-gen Xbox games, accusation perfidy in Redmond began to fly. "The solution Microsoft has reached is apparently to recompile current-gen Xbox games so that they can be played on the 360," says G'biz. "First on the list, it says, are the best-selling Halo titles." However, Xbox owners were the only ones freaking out. The usually recalcitrant Microsoft bypassed its external public relations company, telling GameSpot directly that, "Our goal is to have every Xbox game work on Xbox 360. You will NOT need to purchase a new 'version.' Your original games will work on Xbox 360." "
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/20/news_6126204.html
Ok, so where does this stand now? Is this old information, new information? Not quite clear on what's right anymore...
Post by: IceCold on May 31, 2005, 09:23:48 PM
The article was published two hours ago, so it's fresh.
Scroll down to last two questions
QuoteSounds like he's trying to dodge all of these questions - I don't think they're even close to finalizing it yet
BIZ: Okay, I wanted to ask about backwards compatibility. How did Microsoft finally decide to include it, and how exactly does it work because it apparently is only for "top-selling" Xbox games?
PM: So backwards compatibility is simple. No console has ever been fully backwards compatible. PS2 is not fully backwards compatible with PSone games. There are a lot of games... the list of titles is in the hundreds. So backwards compatibility is important early on—very important. We made the decision a year ago that we're going to find a backwards compatibility solution. We have now done that, and now it's a question of how many titles will be the top-selling titles because there's a critical mass. Halo, Halo 2 of course, those types of games. Backwards compatibility is something that's important to us, but eventually it becomes less important when you have a portfolio of games and people can forget about it. Let me tell you a fascinating statistic. At Sega, I had commissioned market research every 90 days... and in March of 2001 we asked how many were actually putting PSone games in their PS2. Five percent. 95% of PS2 owners had not put PSone games in their drives. Does that mean we dismiss that? No. Does that mean we had some of the brightest software engineers in the world building a backwards compatibility engine to make sure those games will work on 360? Yes we have.
BIZ: So essentially, you guys are emulating Xbox on Xbox 360 because you switched GPU providers, right?
PM: You don't need to know the technical details. [laughs] What you need to know is that the top-selling games will work, and as we plow through them all over the next few months, we will start telling you which games. You'll have more details then, but all you need to know is that you put it in there and it plays.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 31, 2005, 09:34:10 PM
Technically that's true but the PS2 and GBA had like maybe 10 games each that didn't work out of hundreds of available titles. MS is talking about a console where they pick and choose what's backwards compatible. That's lame and inferior. Sony and Nintendo didn't do that. They found a method that worked for 99% of the previous system's games and went with it. There's was no conscious thought about what games to choose. The goal was "as close to all of them as possible".
MS is making excuses. I don't think this will sink them or anything but I think it would just be better for then if they were honest because all this dodging of the issue is just making them look bad. Nintendo however should totally milk this since they'll have games playable from four past consoles right out of the box.
Post by: jasonditz on June 01, 2005, 08:39:37 AM
Or how about the Sega Genesis if you bought the optional "Power Base Convertor"? I think that worked for all of the Master System's (admittedly limited) lineup.
Post by: Grant10k on June 12, 2005, 05:33:12 AM
bit-tech.net article
There is an article on Gamespot, and on bit-tech.net, that talk abit about the x360 and it's backwards compatibility, they also mention that it will be more powerfull than the PS3. And no, they don't explane how they would know that.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 12, 2005, 08:40:20 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on June 13, 2005, 08:42:12 AM
Post by: vudu on June 13, 2005, 08:59:28 AM
Check out the comments at this GamesAreFun.com news post for a much better explanation.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 13, 2005, 10:19:39 AM
I'll go back and read all three and see if I missed something...
edit: bi-tech.net article
Quote
“Emulating the CPU isn’t really a difficult task. They have three 3GHz cores, so emulating one 733MHz chip is pretty easy. The real bottlenecks in the emulation are GPU calls – calls made specifically by games to the Nvidia hardware in a certain way. General GPU instructions are easy to convert – an instruction to draw a triangle in a certain way will be pretty generic. However, it’s the odd cases, the proprietary routines, that will cause hassle.”
After reading that I now see what your were saying about texuring[routines].
Post by: KDR_11k on June 14, 2005, 02:05:19 AM
Yes, once you encounter shaders you're f###ed. I'd assume any multiplatform game would work fine as the PS2 has no shaders either but any XBox specific game is probably loaded to the brim with 'em.
