Post by: Djunknown on January 15, 2005, 06:56:08 PM
Iwata-Get!
Here are some snippets that are 'interesting':
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Iwata said the Revolution will cause a "paradigm shift" in video gaming, and reconfirmed that details on the machine will be unveiled at the upcoming E3 in May. He added that the machine will most likely come out somewhere between 2005 and 2006, when Sony and Microsoft are expected to release their next-generation consoles. Currently very little is known about the Revolution except that it may not use a conventional controller and may be able to connect to a PC monitor as well as the traditional TV screen.
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"The concept behind our new console, tentatively named 'Revolution,' is the same as the DS. We want it to broaden the [video gaming] audience range, and we don't want it to be something that people will see as too irrelevant to them, too difficult to use, or as something that wastes space. We'll announce specific details at the E3 ... It will most likely come out between this year [and] next year, which is considered to be the transition period for home consoles," Iwata said.
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He added that his company will also attempt to avoid competing in the next-gen console market.
There you go. He also mentions the PSP in a roundabout way, and the usual spin. Anybody have a clue where he's going with this?
Post by: Caillan on January 15, 2005, 07:40:49 PM
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"In the past, the video game industry grew on high-quality graphics and data volume," Iwata said. "We decided to move into a different direction, since we believe that those days have ended.
It's hard to tell if he is just trying to hype the Revolution by making it look different or not. I severly hope he is: there's no way we've reached the pinnacle of graphical power or storage capability yet. Developers aren't going to welcome graphically dumbing down their ports for a technically inferior, experimental system.
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He added that his company will also attempt to avoid competing in the next-gen console market.
He had better still be bullshitting about this, like he is with the DS and the PSP. Not competing with the PS3 and XBox2 is a bad idea if they want to recapture the casual market. On the other hand, backwards compatability would demonstrate that it is possible to play normal games on the Revolution, something which would invoke confidence in third party developers..
Post by: Ian Sane on January 15, 2005, 08:34:45 PM
This sounded like a good idea to me when we first saw the DS but now that the DS is real and has no games that interest me released yet this just sounds like a really BAD idea. I mean the DS sounds great in theory but in execution has really disappointed me. The DS can for now get away with sucking because right now people think it's the next Gameboy. The Revolution can't get away with anything. It's currently "Nintendo's next flop" in the minds of most gamers.
"We decided to move into a different direction, since we believe that those days have ended."
What does he mean "we decided"? Nintendo isn't the market leader. They don't decide sh!t.
Avoid competing? What a load of crap. Nintendo doesn't decide if they compete, gamers do. People often buy one videogame console so that means they're competing. Unless Nintendo is going in such a different direction that they're not even targeting gamers but if that's the case then they're sh!tting on their entire fanbase since their fanbase are gamers.
I have this terrible feeling that years from now everyone is going to point to Iwata becoming the head of Nintendo as the point where Nintendo "jumped the shark". When Iwata talks he makes me lose interest in Nintendo and I'm a fan.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 15, 2005, 08:45:10 PM
How naive...Always change a losing game, never change a winning game...
"When Iwata talks he makes me lose interest in Nintendo and I'm a fan."
Fan of complaining about Ninty, I'll buy that...
Post by: Mario on January 15, 2005, 08:54:40 PM
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It's hard to tell if he is just trying to hype the Revolution by making it look different or not. I severly hope he is: there's no way we've reached the pinnacle of graphical power or storage capability yet. Developers aren't going to welcome graphically dumbing down their ports for a technically inferior experimental system.
Right... just like developers aren't welcoming the DS and PSP?
I have faith in Iwata and i'm not going to make up my mind about the Revolution until I see it.
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"The concept behind our new console, tentatively named 'Revolution,' is the same as the DS."
This sounded like a good idea to me when we first saw the DS but now that the DS is real and has no games that interest me released yet this just sounds like a really BAD idea. I mean the DS sounds great in theory but in execution has really disappointed me. The DS can for now get away with sucking because right now people think it's the next Gameboy.
It sounds like a bad idea because you don't like DS games? He didn't say ANYTHING about Revolution software, just the concept.
Post by: Caillan on January 15, 2005, 09:47:38 PM
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I mean the DS sounds great in theory but in execution has really disappointed me.
The only major problem with the DS is the lack of games early on, and I don't that has anything to do with the somewhat quirky technology that the Revolution might display. The DS wasn't revealed long before launch, so Nintendo is the only developer that has had much time to create something. The list of games in development is very impressive, and initial sales have been strong.
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Right... just like developers aren't welcoming the DS and PSP?
The DS and PSP are handheld systems, they are expected to be technically inferior compared to home consoles. Their main competitor is the GBA, which is graphically inferior. If I understand you correctly, your logic would imply that no developer would even consider making games for the DS or PSP while the GBA has an install base of roughly 20 times both of them combined. In fact, I'd say that it's pretty amazing they are sacrificing so much potential market for new technology in the first place. Of course the GBA still has games being made for it, but the DS and PSP both have pretty extensive lists of upcomming games. Games ported to the DS and PSP are from the previous generation, and if anything developers can improve upon them as they port.
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I have faith in Iwata and i'm not going to make up my mind about the Revolution until I see it.
Why? Nintendo's first E3 under Iwata pushed connectivity as it's major spectacle. I think Nintendo has been a lot better recently, but I see no reason to trust him yet. I haven't made up my mind about the Revolution yet either, but there has been a lot of emphasis placed on making it seem like it will be very exotic. New technology like the DS I'd be happy with, new technology such as connectivity I wouldn't.
Post by: Noble~Feather on January 16, 2005, 02:04:20 AM
Revolution is a very powerful system, and honestly, I can't wait to see the looks on people's faces when they see it.
I promise Revo. will be one of the greatest experiences you'll have for years to come.
Post by: Mario on January 16, 2005, 03:40:47 AM
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Why? Nintendo's first E3 under Iwata pushed connectivity as it's major spectacle. I think Nintendo has been a lot better recently, but I see no reason to trust him yet. I haven't made up my mind about the Revolution yet either, but there has been a lot of emphasis placed on making it seem like it will be very exotic. New technology like the DS I'd be happy with, new technology such as connectivity I wouldn't.
Well, I don't know, I just do. What could they push at E3 2003 besides connectivity? They didn't really have anything spectacular, you can't really blame Iwata for that.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 16, 2005, 05:49:00 AM
In the same interview, Iwata termed the DS as "a change," while the Rev a "paradigm shift"...I think it should be apparent that it won't be something like connectivity(which I love for Four Swords, thank you very much...)
Post by: Savior on January 16, 2005, 08:10:51 AM
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When Iwata talks he makes me lose interest in Nintendo and I'm a fan.
Loose interest? No. It makes me worry. I worry and yet im exited about the Revolution. Sometimes it seems like it can change the game and help Nintendo go back to Number 1. But sometimes when Iwata talks i worry its going to be a dumbed down graphically low two button bore fest to bring out the Non Gamers, and they will forget about us the Nintendo Faithfull... Im Exited and yet worried.
Post by: Noble~Feather on January 16, 2005, 08:51:44 AM
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Loose interest? No. It makes me worry. I worry and yet im exited about the Revolution. Sometimes it seems like it can change the game and help Nintendo go back to Number 1. But sometimes when Iwata talks i worry its going to be a dumbed down graphically low two button bore fest to bring out the Non Gamers, and they will forget about us the Nintendo Faithfull... Im Exited and yet worried.
Read my post boy.
And the graphics, believe me, are not "dumbed down".
In many ways, they are better than the Xenon's graphics.
Post by: Djunknown on January 16, 2005, 11:26:50 AM
So starting with Revolution, They'll be making taking that stance into account. Sounds to me they're willingly going off the fringe, and hope the Nintendo army will march with them, keeping them profitable enough to make games. And if you want good 3rd party support, grab MS's or Sony's next machine. At least, that's what I'm getting out of it.
Noble feather, are you an insider? I'm guessing revealing too much will comprise who you are, but at least answer that.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on January 16, 2005, 12:05:14 PM
Post by: Procession on January 16, 2005, 04:56:22 PM
In many ways, they are better than the Xenon's graphics."
Oh, so you know about Xenon now as well?
Give it a rest, seriously. No one is falling for it, so you may as well keep your bragging and vague "hints" to yourself.
Post by: Caillan on January 16, 2005, 05:09:44 PM
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Instead of trying to go pound for pound with MS and Sony, they're going for the Apple route.
That's exactly what I don't want to see Nintendo do. Macs are at least as good as PCs in terms of hardware and interface, but they're ignored because they're too alien for most people who always use Windows. Apple is an example of a company with good products but no market share because of factors that have little to do with quality.
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There was a reason for the SNES (mode 7 and "3-D"), there was a reason for the 64 (completely 3-D) and a reason for the GameCube (perfect 3-D and better mechanics).
This generation is in no way 'perfect 3D'. The next generation may be premature in giving you nothing but more polygons, but there will have to be a significant graphical upgrade eventually, hopefully at which point the hardware will standardise. Look at these screenshots of the next Elder Scrolls game. There is a significant increase in graphical detail, even though they are pre-alpha.
Post by: nickmitch on January 16, 2005, 06:04:29 PM
I am just going to trust Iwata on this. It's like this thing I heard in English 2 weeks ago about Political leaders always doing what's in the best interest of the state. I feel it's like that. If Iwata thinks that what he's doing is good for Nintendo and us gamers then we should just go with.
Post by: ShyGuy on January 16, 2005, 07:04:18 PM
I guess they're still pre-beta screenshots, but they don't look much better than Half Life 2 or Resident Evil 4 to me.
What I would like to see in this next generation is taking out the obvious "I'm playing a game moments" stuff like NPC walking around in an obvious preset pattern, clipping (your hand going through part of a wall), explosions just adding burn mark textures to where they went off instead of deforming the enviroment, stuff like that.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on January 16, 2005, 08:14:50 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 16, 2005, 08:59:12 PM
That's not the point. The point is, is it really worth wasting development time getting better and better quality graphics?
I personally think not... looking at MP2's and RE4's graphics, I'm perfectly satisfied with what developers can currently create. Sure they could get better, but I don't really care. I want them to focus on actually making the games themselves as good as possible.
The way I see it 3D right now hasn't reached its pinnacle yet, but it has already reached the level beyond which I don't much care. It's like Zelda LttP and 2D... Sure there are better looking 2D games, but beyond that point I don't really care anymore, it's perfectly acceptable even today.
Post by: Noble~Feather on January 16, 2005, 10:15:37 PM
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"And the graphics, believe me, are not "dumbed down".
In many ways, they are better than the Xenon's graphics."
Oh, so you know about Xenon now as well?
Give it a rest, seriously. No one is falling for it, so you may as well keep your bragging and vague "hints" to yourself.
The developer said, in terms of graphics & power, "Xenon will win in some places, Revolution will win in most places."
I can tell you this though. Nintendo has always known graphics are important, and Xenon is being rushed before it, so it's common sense that it will have better graphics.
You don't have to believe me, as most people don't. My efforts seem to be quite futile anyway.
Post by: Mario on January 16, 2005, 10:37:09 PM
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Originally posted by: Noble~FeatherQuote
"And the graphics, believe me, are not "dumbed down".
In many ways, they are better than the Xenon's graphics."
Oh, so you know about Xenon now as well?
Give it a rest, seriously. No one is falling for it, so you may as well keep your bragging and vague "hints" to yourself.
The developer said, in terms of graphics & power, "Xenon will win in some places, Revolution will win in most places."
I can tell you this though. Nintendo has always known graphics are important, and Xenon is being rushed before it, so it's common sense that it will have better graphics.
You don't have to believe me, as most people don't. My efforts seem to be quite futile anyway.
and if someone DOES know something, it's best for Nintendo if you keep your mouth shut, if someone leaks something about Nintendos future, Microsoft and/or Sony will be listening.
Post by: nemo_83 on January 16, 2005, 11:58:48 PM
Post by: Noble~Feather on January 17, 2005, 12:15:09 AM
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Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: Noble~FeatherQuote
"And the graphics, believe me, are not "dumbed down".
In many ways, they are better than the Xenon's graphics."
Oh, so you know about Xenon now as well?
Give it a rest, seriously. No one is falling for it, so you may as well keep your bragging and vague "hints" to yourself.
The developer said, in terms of graphics & power, "Xenon will win in some places, Revolution will win in most places."
I can tell you this though. Nintendo has always known graphics are important, and Xenon is being rushed before it, so it's common sense that it will have better graphics.
You don't have to believe me, as most people don't. My efforts seem to be quite futile anyway.
and if someone DOES know something, it's best for Nintendo if you keep your mouth shut, if someone leaks something about Nintendos future, Microsoft and/or Sony will be listening.
Alright, alright. It's just that the fanboy inside me is sick of hearing all these people say, "OMFg Ntiendo r teh doomde!!1!!!!".
Post by: nemo_83 on January 17, 2005, 12:35:59 AM
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Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: Noble~FeatherQuote
"And the graphics, believe me, are not "dumbed down".
In many ways, they are better than the Xenon's graphics."
Oh, so you know about Xenon now as well?
Give it a rest, seriously. No one is falling for it, so you may as well keep your bragging and vague "hints" to yourself.
The developer said, in terms of graphics & power, "Xenon will win in some places, Revolution will win in most places."
I can tell you this though. Nintendo has always known graphics are important, and Xenon is being rushed before it, so it's common sense that it will have better graphics.
You don't have to believe me, as most people don't. My efforts seem to be quite futile anyway.
and if someone DOES know something, it's best for Nintendo if you keep your mouth shut, if someone leaks something about Nintendos future, Microsoft and/or Sony will be listening.
I was sort of hoping that Nintendo's revolution would be original enough that even if the competition did know what it was they wouldn't be able to copy it in time for their own launches.
Post by: Noble~Feather on January 17, 2005, 01:07:38 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 17, 2005, 05:30:22 AM
I admit, I am still a little worried that the system won't play traditional games. From my perspective, if Revolution does what it's supposed to successfully, I will definitely have to have it, but I'll also probably have to have one of the others, because I'm not tired of playing traditional videogames. I think third party support will definitely favour the other companies in that scenario too.
What excited me here is that Iwata claims they're actually going to give us information on the system at E3! I really didn't expect Nintendo to say too much about it until later this year or even next year. I'm also encouraged that it sounds like Nintendo is taking Microsoft's early launch more seriously, up until now Nintendo has always insisted that it would wait for the PS3 launch.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 17, 2005, 08:05:28 AM
I'd guess that the point of the Rev is to simplify the controls by removing abstraction layers. That's what the DS did, instead of pressing A to cut with a knife you make a slashing motion with the stylus. Much more intuitive and precise.
As for next gen graphics, hell look at Doom 3, unified realtime rendering is a HUGE step ahead and if you ever tried to work with that engine you'll understand the beauty of it all. Imagine about two steps above Doom 3, that's what Moore's law dictates what these consoles will be capable of.
At that level it comes down to artistic skill. Bethesda is known for their bad art, hell, Perimeter looks much better than Elder Scrolls 4. More polygons don't absolve you from having skill, in fact more polies require much more skill. I'm completely overwhelmed by that kind of work because I have little skill. Look at what Bungie does regularly, they are prime examples of bad art (Oni used the same polygon counts as Unreal Tournament 2004). Those hand painted bumpmaps in Halo 2 look like crap compared to Doom 3's normalmaps, yet Doom 3 has vastly lower polygon counts (id recommends around 2000, I think Halo 2 was around 3.5k?). Look at Final Fantasy X! 1.5k per character yet it looks beautiful! It's all about skill. You will be able to reach photorealism with the next gen consoles provided you have the skills. Without the skills anything will look like crap.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 17, 2005, 01:24:54 PM
"Iwata said the DS and PSP aren't directly competing, because Nintendo is aiming for nongamers and retired gamers with its handheld, while Sony is targeting the traditional gaming audience."
I'm not a nongamer or retired gamer. Thus the DS isn't even targeted at me. In fact the DS isn't targeted at ANY of us since none of us here are nongamers or retired gamers. Now if that's the audience the Revolution targets they can count me out.
Who does Nintendo think their fanbase is? We're gamers. By not targeting us they are turning away the existing fanbase. That's a pretty insane risk to take.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 17, 2005, 01:37:08 PM
Um, no...You are missing his point...He wants to cater to the Nintendo fan as well as pull in a new audience...I think with titles like Mario, Zelda, and Advance Wars it's quite obvious that what you are thinking is ridiculously off-base...
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 17, 2005, 01:51:46 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on January 17, 2005, 05:12:09 PM
Post by: PJ gamer10 on January 20, 2005, 10:28:58 AM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on January 20, 2005, 12:47:23 PM
People forget that when the PS2 launched it had a horrible lineup, worse than the US lineup of the DS, but it still sold and by the time the GC and Xbox showed up better games were out, and now the PS2 is the clear winner in the console race.
Get a clue...nintendo doesn't need to release any games at the moment because it has no one to compete against, right now its easy money, their not going to waste their big guns now and have no stockpiles when the PSP arrives, their going to hord their games until the PSP arrives and then start releasing, especially with regards to next winter when the 2005 holiday season starts, they'll want to bury sony at that point, expect a flurry of games and possibly a price drop next oct.-dec.
Post by: norebonomis on January 25, 2005, 01:09:23 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 25, 2005, 03:42:03 AM
We aren't at the pinnacle of graphical perfection yet with games. We won't be close to that probably until another 2 full generations after this coming generation. However, I would argue we DON'T want to be there.
With each generation of 3D consoles it becomes more and more costly to artistically design games. You want to know why larger companies are buying all the small development firms.
1)The smaller firms can't compete in the marketplace and still make a profit. The time and resources it takes to make spectacular graphics for just this generation are incredible, yet next generation the price will skyrocket even more.
2)The larger firms are even having a problem keeping up with the challenge and they are ever needing to enlarge their development teams and artistic teams just to create their normal games.
If all we do is push for games to be graphically superior then eventually costs of gaming will go down and the only games will get receive are those which will sell millions of copies. In other words in future consoles we will actually be getting less variety not more. You can actually see it this generation with games. The variety of original games is shockingly low.
Nintendo may not have the exact answer by trying to create a new means to interface with your games, and focusing on the interaction more than the games, but at least its a bold step in the right direction.
To me the DS is a perfect example of the risk Nintendo is will to take to effect the future of gaming. Yes right now the system doesn't have many games, but don't judge a system on its launch titles, and wait and see what it will be in the future. The DS is bold in design, but it still brought us enough advancement in technology to play 3D games and 2D as well brought us a new way of playing games.
From what developers have said Nintendo is creating a system that is graphically superior than the Gamecube, and should compete nicely with the PS3 and Xenon. However the emphasis on the system was never the power, but the interface.
Lets see what Nintendo creates before we get upset.
After all I would rather see an awesome new interface than really nice graphics that don't change gameplay for me at all.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 25, 2005, 09:39:04 AM
Norebonomis: To me, equalling the DS with the Virtual Boy is comparable to claiming the XBox has only Halo in terms of "insta-troll" rating. It's selling well so claiming that it doesn't go well with the popular market is like saying there are no american troops in Bagdad. The DS applies technology that has properly matured to the gaming medium, the VB attempted to merge an immature technology with gaming. The touch screen is opening up new possibilities, as opposed to the Virtual Boy's "3d" display.
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 27, 2005, 03:33:39 AM
Most of the time those new developers creating amazing games and graphics are creating those games for PC. That is a completely different animal than console development.
1) Its easier and less expensive to get started on a PC game. A group of programmers and artists could easily work on a new PC game while having other jobs and become successful.
2) When you see these startup developers they usually have all their eggs in one basket. Meaning if that game they spent years on developing isn't successful then the company may completely go under. Its very high risk.
You usually do not see new developers jumping to console games first because its even higher risk and more costly do develop for one of the console systems. Besides you may not even be let into the door with aid from development kits and such.
So I still believe in my analysis that the more graphically intense the games, and the more advanced that smaller companies will be eaten alive. At the same rate games will become shorter, and multiplayer will began to be used for longevity of the game even if its a game that should be designed with multiplayer in mind.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 27, 2005, 08:22:10 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 27, 2005, 10:31:49 AM
Post by: norebonomis on January 27, 2005, 11:12:18 AM
haha it really would turn into the next virtual boy.
