Post by: The Caucasian Cubist on February 13, 2003, 05:42:14 AM
Now. I gots complaining to do. I thinking this concept of "networking Gamecubes" is overrated. From the recent "Just Sniffing Around" article, Louie wrote "The word is on the street that certain big name titles will be networkable. Meaning you’ll be able to connect multiple GameCubes and televisions and get your game on. " OH GREAT!!! I'll just go get my other Gamecube and other TV and we'll be having lots of fun!! Anyone else have this feeling?
Don't get me wrong. I am interested in getting online with the cube. I am really hoping Animal Crossing 2 will be online. But LAN "online" games seem too cumbersome and awkward to set up.
End.
Post by: jme on February 13, 2003, 05:50:03 AM
And you can bet your bottom dollar that IF Nintendo is going to be announcing LAN games, they are going to be unveiling those LCD screens. How cumbersome would that be? You could fit everything you needed into a bookbag, or one of those larger GC Travel packs. Picture a card table with 1 person sitting on each side, and a cube with a screen in front of them and a bunch of wires all over the place.
At least this way your bandwidth isn't sucked up by voice chat features... you got something to say, lean over and say it. And you won't be matched up with Ricky The Retard and his "Robot" voice filter.
Post by: jarob on February 13, 2003, 05:51:10 AM
Post by: The Caucasian Cubist on February 13, 2003, 05:57:24 AM
More people need to think like me.
Jarob, households may have more than one TV, but they're often not in the same room. I, for instance, would half to unhook it from the entertainment center downstairs, and drag it upstairs. and also, other guy, not everyone has a $100 LCD screen.
Post by: vudu on February 13, 2003, 05:57:34 AM
Post by: jarob on February 13, 2003, 06:01:55 AM
Post by: The Caucasian Cubist on February 13, 2003, 06:06:13 AM
Oh well, I've never had a PC LAN party or any other kind of "LAN Party," so this is one reason I dissed the idea. Never mind, it sounds like fun, just maybe I'll pass on it. Still sounds kind of complicated. But whatever. I'm looking forward to seeing what the two said games are.
Post by: Christberg on February 13, 2003, 06:27:48 AM
It's really pretty damn easy to set up. You just get a BBA, run a cable (provided it's wired right) between them and you have a 2 player game. For more than that you need a hub, but you can buy an 8 port 10mbs hub for like 50 bucks these days. and then you just plug all the cables into that and turn it on. No big deal at all.
Post by: Mingesium on February 13, 2003, 07:09:52 AM
Post by: RickPowers on February 13, 2003, 08:24:58 AM
The concept of connecting consoles like the Xbox or PS2 in a network config with multiple TV's is ludicrous ... the only place you could do that with reasonable benefit is in a dorm environment. It's just not practical in a house with large TVs. With the Cube's small size, and cheap LCD add-ons, it's a lot more practical. (Yes, I know there are LCD's for the PS2 and Xbox, but it's still not even close to convenient.)
It's things like this that make me realize just how smart Nintendo can be. The GameCube is super-portable for a next-gen console, and they've basically got a way to make the entire thing not only self-contained, but locally networkable with your friends. God, I can't wait for Nintendo's LCD screen.
Cubist: We weren't ignoring you, trust me.
Your ISP was blocking our e-mails, since our e-mail server was originally insecure and vulnerable to being used as an open relay for spam. Luckily, they had a process for re-testing the server for open relays, and we passed this morning. As soon as I got the message, I had your password sent. I personally worked on getting your password to YOU for about five hours total, trying to get your ISP to accept our mails. 
Post by: SteveStL on February 13, 2003, 08:39:31 AM
Quote
God, I can't wait for Nintendo's LCD screen.
Wait... I thought the Gamecube already had Portable Screens available now. Is the LCD screens something different?
Steve
Post by: Sir Pinch-a-Loaf on February 13, 2003, 08:48:27 AM
Oh my, i've rambled. someone stop me
Post by: Christberg on February 13, 2003, 08:48:45 AM
Post by: Uglydot on February 13, 2003, 09:00:47 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on February 13, 2003, 09:02:46 AM
Post by: KrazyJ1098 on February 13, 2003, 09:19:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
yes lan is very important. there are lots of college students that live in dorms with not much to do. if u can get a good lan game that appeals to college students, u will sell a lot of games. i think its important that nintendo gets its stuff out as soon as possible. not to mention lots of houses are networked nowadays.
i completely agree with that last statement, seeing as how im a college student and all. i plan on bringing my cube with me when i transefer to isu next fall so hopefully they will have theses games out by then. oh and by the way, those games that are rumored to be able to do this stuff, i know mario kart is rumored to do it. later
Post by: WindyMan on February 13, 2003, 09:32:11 AM
For anyone that plays PC games regularly, you would know that LAN parties are a lot more fun than online games. Why? If those people are in the same room (or house) as you, they're going to hear your shout as you kill them, and vice versa. It's just more fun when you can see or hear the other person react to what you did (hence, mantatory voice in Xbox Live games), which is why LAN gaming is so popular.
And as for LCD screens, they're totally optional. Like I said, if you have another TV anywhere in the house, you can use it. If you have a smaller 13" or 19" around that's easily moveable, use that. Trust me, I know from experience that linking systems, no matter how cumbersome or akward it is, is well worth the effort to setup once you start playing it.
Post by: EL Pollo DIablos on February 13, 2003, 09:33:02 AM
It''s risky beacuse then developers will either not work on the LAN part or to much ( which will affect normal multi).
But maybe things will work out in the end.
Me for one amnot so excited about LAN. Cause just like u guys said it'sjust irritating to set it up.
And im not gonna buy another gamecube( well maybe if this one's broken but that's another story).
El Pollo Diablos( the devil chicken).
Post by: The Caucasian Cubist on February 13, 2003, 09:34:14 AM
Quote
Cubist: We weren't ignoring you, trust me.
Oh it's not a problem... I was being serious.
And, wow I didn't know that. Thanks alot! I feel special now.
Post by: RickPowers on February 13, 2003, 09:47:19 AM
Quote
System link play is not as ludicrious as it seems. I can vouch for this personally since I've played three-Xbox Halo and Unreal Championship at Adam's house, and he's got a 61" HDTV and two 27" TVs. Really, the only problem you're going to have when linking up GameCubes is to make sure you have enough of a length of ethernet cable. When I go to link up my GameCubes (if I ever do it at my house), all I'll need is 40' worth, and it wouldn't be a problem.
There are still few households in the US that have more than one television, and even less that have more than one that are big enough to give a decent gaming experience. And regardless of what anyone might suggest, lugging TVs to your friends house just isn't a realistic option except for the most diehard gamers. Adam is quite fortunate to have not just that many decent sized TVs, but a home network as well. But he's on the high-end of the scale, it certainly isn't the norm. Fact of the matter is, for MOST people, System Link play IS ludicrous. You are fortunate to have a friend with the equipment. Most people don't.
Quote
For anyone that plays PC games regularly, you would know that LAN parties are a lot more fun than online games. Why? If those people are in the same room (or house) as you, they're going to hear your shout as you kill them, and vice versa. It's just more fun when you can see or hear the other person react to what you did (hence, mantatory voice in Xbox Live games), which is why LAN gaming is so popular.
Right, it's absolutely more fun. But still a relative rarity for most gamers. I've been in one LAN party in my life where I brought my own computer, and that was at Microsoft. All the others had the computers provided (LAN parties on the corporate network, etc). But your reasoning is sound ... the fun factor of hearing the other guy celebrating a kill or bemoaning a death is a big part of the reason why Xbox Live is getting such great reviews. But when it comes right down to is, all Online play is LAN gaming without the "Local". There are voice over IP options that give you the same LAN feeling, even if you can't see the other person.
Quote
And as for LCD screens, they're totally optional. Like I said, if you have another TV anywhere in the house, you can use it. If you have a smaller 13" or 19" around that's easily moveable, use that. Trust me, I know from experience that linking systems, no matter how cumbersome or akward it is, is well worth the effort to setup once you start playing it.
Maybe for you. Remember who Nintendo's target market is. Most of those people (i.e. Kids) would get thier asses kicked if they even suggested moving the TVs, or running cables all over the house. Home networks are still relatively new. Plus, there's the cost of all the cables, hub/switch, TV/LCD screen, etc. ... it's a significant barrier to entry.
All that said, I still applaud Nintendo's adding the feature rather than ignoring the market completely. And as I said before, I'm convinced that the GameCube's portability and the availability of inexpensive (relatively) LCD screens is what's pushing this forward. If you have the means to have multiple TVs and a home network, great. If not, you can still have a "LAN Party" in the middle of a single room, and with a minimum of fuss. It's an option that will give hardcore gamers their "LAN" fix, and still gives kids the same fun on a smaller scale as well. Brilliant.
Regardless, I still think that ignoring Internet play is a mistake ... because regardless of how easy it is to hook up a LAN game, you still have to coordinate with people, get the hardware to one location, hook everything up, etc. The beauty of Internet play is being able to log on at any time, and finding someone to play with. Hopefully, GameSpy will create a tunnelling software like they did for the Xbox so that these networkable games will be playable over the Internet.
Either that, or maybe our little birdy heard "networking" when they were talking about TCP/IP, which is used both locally, and for the Internet!
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 13, 2003, 11:27:36 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 13, 2003, 03:04:27 PM
here's a link showing Computer wireless networking.....look for the small wireless usb network adapter
Wireless usb network adapter
But I don't know exactly how the Nintendo's Broadband adapter works so....maybe my idea could work or maybe not.
Post by: sonic on February 13, 2003, 03:58:56 PM
Post by: Mingesium on February 13, 2003, 04:01:13 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on February 13, 2003, 04:09:37 PM
Post by: Mingesium on February 13, 2003, 04:17:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
could the GCN handle 30 racers in F-zero? That sounds ludicrous
You are right. It is ludicrous. I just threw that number out there.
Here is what IGN says
Quote
big environments with a total of 28 vehicles on-screen including the player, and a sense of speed absolutely frantic and totally unequaled.
28 Player LAN would still be cool.
Post by: aoi tsuki on February 13, 2003, 05:24:33 PM
In order to connect a GC (or any other ethernet-ready console) wirelessly to a WAN, you need a wireless ethernet bridge. i'm too lazy to post a link, but just punch "wireless ethernet bridge" in Google and you'll get some links.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 14, 2003, 11:25:12 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on February 14, 2003, 12:13:29 PM
would 28 players on a LAN slow down ? I am unfamiliar with LAN gaming; does having lots of players slow down the game any?
Post by: RickPowers on February 14, 2003, 12:17:26 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on February 14, 2003, 12:23:32 PM
Post by: Calibretto on February 14, 2003, 12:43:55 PM
Post by: Zach Adams on February 14, 2003, 01:32:43 PM
Quote
There are still few households in the US that have more than one television, and even less that have more than one that are big enough to give a decent gaming experience.
Heh, Rick I really think that is the opposite. I live in a community with mainly middle class, with nearly as many lower class. Anyway, we did a survey on how many TV's are in their homes and about 3% had 1 tv. The rest were mainly 3 or 4. Up to about 8. Seriously, what you are thinking of is how it was in the 70's man. TV's are so widespread, I doubt there ARE few households WITHOUT more then one tv. And now that that is said, it is SO easy to set up. Do you guys have more then 4 friends come over to play? Well then you guys know what I mean! If you don't then I can understand your inacceptance of LAN..... you would obviously like online. Anyway, since I have maybe 5-6 people come over to play GCN usually, and I could get more in my neighborhood, LAN is a MUST for us. One of my friends bought Xbox just so he could do it. Bring over your cube when they release it, hook it up to a distant tv, run wires from one to the other and it is simple. And you guys think it is overrated! Hahahah! It is the most fun gaming experience you can possibly have, LAN. But too many are too lazy to try it. (I even had to force my friends to help me put a sheet across my tv so we could play 2 vs 2 TS2 without seeing each other screens, and they finally agreed it was tons better)
Post by: shoney on February 14, 2003, 02:51:36 PM
they could sell the LAN setup and mari kart with it!
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 14, 2003, 04:29:28 PM
Post by: Matt on February 14, 2003, 06:17:04 PM
Post by: cubist on February 15, 2003, 05:52:53 AM
My questions about LAN gaming since I'm also not too familiar with it:
If it were a team play type situation, would on television have split screen, or does it usually involve a screen per individual, or both?
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 15, 2003, 06:14:08 AM
Wait a sec though, doesn't SSB:M have 28 charachters? If so wouldn't that seem just a tad ironic?
Post by: cubist on February 15, 2003, 06:21:15 AM
Post by: Uglydot on February 15, 2003, 07:03:11 AM
Post by: Tael on February 15, 2003, 06:22:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Uglydot
Now, is the GCN network gonna be 100mb or 1000mb?
The broadband adapter is 10Mbit.
Edit: Also, it's kinda weird that IGN says there are only 28 cars in F-Zero, when your position/rank is out of 30.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 15, 2003, 06:28:10 PM
Post by: Tael on February 15, 2003, 06:38:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: manunited4eva22
correction: it is 10/100Mb. I doubt they would release a gigabit ethernet adapter, as they are still around 40 dollars for pc...
That's strange, Nintendo's FAQ says it's 10Base-T:
Quote
What is the network protocol standard (speed rating) of the Nintendo GameCube Broadband Adapter?
The speed is 10Base-T. This adapter can only be used with 10Base-T compatible broadband connection devices and specially designed games that include on-line game features.
Post by: RickPowers on February 15, 2003, 07:40:26 PM
I'm sure someone out there is thinking "what does it matter, when an Internet connection is rarely faster than 1.5Mbit anyway?" Well, a single 10Mbit device on some 100Mbit hubs will force every device on the hub down to 10Mbit, lowering performance across the board. Even if the adapter can't communicate at a full 100Mbit, telling the hub/switch that it can is important for maintaining performance on the rest of the network.
And of course, the more speed you have for LAN games, the better. It would be nice if it were a true 100Mbit device, but that was asking for a lot. 10Mbit is still perfectly fine for LAN/Internet games.
Post by: StRaNgE on February 15, 2003, 08:30:47 PM
if a group of nerds wants to set up a lan party and do all the work then hell i might go and enjoy it but i am sure i can find more things to do with my time besides that. online sounds like a solution to playing alone, but with the lan you have to know people with cubes and so forth and so on, have the same games and more and more. then who gets to play in the room with surround sound while the other guy gets stuck on the little 17 inch screen and the other is on the big 61 incher.
sure this idea is good for some of you all and nothing wrong with that but for the magority of gamers it's not a big deal.
Post by: Tael on February 15, 2003, 08:56:11 PM
QuoteHaving a LAN party is no more nerdy than normal multiplayer or online multiplayer with a console. In fact, I'd rate online play more nerdy, because at least for a LAN you have to go outside.
Originally posted by: StRaNgE
if a group of nerds wants to set up a lan party and do all the work then hell i might go and enjoy it but i am sure i can find more things to do with my time besides that.
Post by: aoi tsuki on February 16, 2003, 03:42:37 AM
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not sure aboutthe rest of ya, but having tv's in seprate rooms seems to defy the point , plus i don't want people in my room, that's why i have a huge tv in the main room not my room.
Which is where having LCD screens and a system as portable as the GC comes in handy, as Rick put it earlier. In a dorm room, you can have four people, each with their own cube, and three LCD screens (the person that lives there would just use their tv). You don't have to lug anything anywhere. Some schools even let the students use tvs from different classes so they can play. i used to go to my friend's school to play 16-player Halo. i'm not too into the game but it's fun with a lot of people. i'd like to see Nintendo do a college tour with LAN-ready games, and incorporate LAN gaming at the next Cube Clubs.
LAN gaming might not be something most people are doing now, but it's something a noticeable segment of the gaming public is doing, and given the fact that networking in general is where we're headed with consumer electronics, it's all the more reason to include it as an option in game systems.
Post by: Uglydot on February 16, 2003, 04:06:28 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 16, 2003, 04:12:49 PM
Post by: Endo on February 16, 2003, 08:47:39 PM
Source: http://www.commsdesign.com
"NEW ORLEANS — Motorola Inc.'s Semiconductor Products Sector will use a proprietary frequency-hopping scheme developed for multiuser gaming as its indirect entry into 2.4-GHz wireless markets, corporate vice president Ray Burgess told the Smart Networks Developer Forum Tuesday (July 23).
The isochronous network, developed with input from Nintendo Co. Ltd., Sony Corp. and other game platform developers, will be extended into other markets to serve as a "feeder" for future ad-hoc mesh-based piconets that use 802.11 wireless technology as their underlying infrastructure, Burgess said.
Motorola was chided by Smart Networks keynoter Nicholas Negroponte for not having a strong 802.11 media-access controller and physical-layer offering. David Perkins, vice president and general manager of the networking and computing systems group at Motorola's Semiconductor Products Sector, said the unit's PowerPC processor often serves as a port aggregator in 802.11 access systems, giving Motorola a strong indirect role in wireless LANs. But Burgess said the company would bypass direct WLAN chip sets in favor of a two-pronged strategy of Bluetooth and isochronous game-LAN support.
Motorola remains committed to Bluetooth for embedded short-range applications where point-to-point networking is the primary target and interference with 802.11 is not a problem, Burgess said. But the multiuser gaming market required a very low latency network where traditional packet-collision problems precluded use of 802.11, he said. In order to develop such products, a coalition resembling Bluetooth was a hindrance rather than an advantage, he said.
"Our first target will not require industry support. We went with a proprietary modulation method, because we really don't need any alliances except with our gaming partners," Burgess said. "As the technology moves outside the gaming market, we could start opening up the details of our approach, and working with more partners."
Because the network is intended for streaming, near-real-time traffic and does not have to use LAN contention methods, developers of such systems will not have to worry about packet collisions with home networks based on 802.11, he said. The hopping modulation scheme will not interfere with either LANs or Bluetooth links in the unlicensed 2.4-GHz band. But as wireless LANs move to mesh-based piconets employing multihop routing across access points, the gaming LAN could be used as a local networking cluster operating in conjunction with 802.11, Burgess said.
Motorola and Nintendo have demonstrated the isochronous gaming LAN privately at gaming conferences over the last quarter. The RF subsystems will be ready for volume production in the second half of this year, Burgess said."
Sorry if the post is too long.
Post by: mrbojangos on February 16, 2003, 09:01:17 PM
Post by: Endo on February 16, 2003, 09:21:21 PM
Post by: Azule on February 16, 2003, 09:43:28 PM
This seems like a job for the arcade version.....that's be cool. Probably have to be done in a traveling tour of some sort.
Post by: nonjagged on February 17, 2003, 05:51:12 AM
Both Gamespy and a South Asian company have had official GCN online/lan tools available for developers to use the past 6 months.
Hopefully some of the real 3rd party supporting developers use the tools and make LAN or Online gaming an option because N64 was the epitome of 4 player splitscreen but this Nintendo platform should move on and support fullscreen/LCD LAN gaming.
I truly beleive all it needs is a handful of AAA quality Nintendo 1st / 2nd party games that take advantage of LAN/Networking/Online gaming and you will see Nintendo breakaway with huge sales figures.
As for Live Voice being mandatory, I dont believe it should be because I find it annoyingly monotonous when you get some gamers with irritating quirks and what about other gamers that try to intentionally distract you with Voice tactics in a cheating way.
Personally for me typing text line communication is more appealing especially when the language you type in is 733t.
Networking GCN with quality game experiences could actually double its current worldwide sales quicker than it could ever.
Post by: RickPowers on February 17, 2003, 06:05:16 AM
Quote
As for Live Voice being mandatory, I dont believe it should be because I find it annoyingly monotonous when you get some gamers with irritating quirks and what about other gamers that try to intentionally distract you with Voice tactics in a cheating way.
Personally for me typing text line communication is more appealing especially when the language you type in is 733t.
You can ignore the morons. But quit frankly, I'd rather have voice than not, now that I've used it. I'm a fast typer, but it still requires you to effectively STOP PLAYING, while you respond. Same with on-screen keyboards or voice input ... you have to stop playing to enter a command. With voice, the gaming never stops. Plus, there's emotion and nuance that comes across with voice that you just don't get with text.
Post by: Christberg on February 17, 2003, 07:11:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Endo
What it means is, you might be able to LAN your Gamecubes on a standard without interferance. I believe I remember hearing the technology is viable up to a mile or two. So you could quite possibly LAN with a friend in a different house. All the talk about the difficulty of moving TVs around (i.e entertainment setups with 27" or whatnot) would be null and void, not necessary. Of course, what's the fun in a LAN type arrangement if you can't victory dance and taunt in the same room as your opponent?
Unfortunately, this stuff is more likely slated for Nintendo's next system as much as I hate to say it... but then again, it'll mean that the potential functionality of it is much higher. Gameboy that reads mem cards for downloadable content from the home system wirelessly? (Imagine the GP32 only more convenient and almost as powerful as a DC) Wireless home system/GBA connectivity? You bet. Wireless controllers standard? No problemo. As many controllers as you want to plug into one system viable? Yep. (Imagine the nightmare of an 8 player Smash Brothers on one screen or an 8 (or more) player Mario Party). Wireless GBA multiplayer with more than 4 players and you don't even have to be in the same room, much less house? You bet.
All that, plus the stuff you mentioned.
Post by: nonjagged on February 17, 2003, 06:54:03 PM
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2003 = The Year of the Fund Q
Post by: gopher on February 17, 2003, 07:41:36 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 18, 2003, 11:08:58 AM
Post by: RickPowers on February 18, 2003, 11:17:35 AM
Post by: rodtod on February 18, 2003, 11:50:09 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on February 18, 2003, 03:40:06 PM
