Post by: nemo_83 on November 30, 2004, 04:45:56 AM
This was lifted from Nintendo of Europe's recent interview with Eiji Aonuma about The Minish Cap and the Zelda series in general.
NoE: Can you tell us how Zelda fits into the gameplay? There has been some suggestion you can play as her!
Aonuma: In this title Princess Zelda is turned into stone, and the mission is to help her. We will realise the idea of playing as Princess Zelda in another title.
I found the above on another forum. Interesting. Can't stop thinking of the CDi. I'm hoping they make a new Zelda game with Ganon, Link, and Zelda playable as the goodguys. It would be more likely for them to make a Zelda game with Zelda as the main character with Link and Ganon as computer controlled characters.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 30, 2004, 05:21:46 AM
(Ganon as a good guy? Ahaha, no)
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2004, 06:58:47 AM
Controlling Zelda seems fine though I've never really had any desire to play as her. I think the only reason anyone has ever wanted to play as her is because they can't get past the fact that her name is in the title despite her not being the main character. If they want to make a game where you play her that's fine as long as it doesn't suck and Link isn't captured (because that would make no sense).
Post by: SgtShiversBen on November 30, 2004, 07:57:29 AM
Post by: joshnickerson on November 30, 2004, 08:38:47 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 30, 2004, 11:07:23 AM
As for a game where I could play as Zelda, that might be cool. I agree that having her rescue Link would be lame, but not so much because I think it's implausible (Ganon had significant opportunities to capture or defeat Link in both OOT and WW), rather I think it would be a lame plot. It would be easy enough to have Link lost on some adventure, or even ignore his whereabouts totally.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on November 30, 2004, 11:27:37 AM
Thats what OOT was all about and what I loved about it so much, Ganon got the Triforce part of Power and Wisdom or something, but Link the Courage part. His courage and determination and pure heart are his real skills, and those turn into his battling skills. But technically, Ganon or Ganondorf for that matter, is always more powerful.
Also I am convinced it wouldnt fit the Zelda series if Ganon/dorf and Link team up, its just wrong. As someone said before, Ganondorf is THE evil, when playing OOT (I was younger, but still) his character really frightened me, this insane power and incredible evil, really intimidating.
Post by: Dasmos on November 30, 2004, 12:05:47 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 30, 2004, 03:47:54 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on November 30, 2004, 05:04:05 PM
Or they could defeat the final boss and then find a statue with a sword in it. Either Ganondorf could pull it out and become possesed or Ganondorf could try but be unable to pull it out. Then Link could pull it out and the statue could come to life.
Other alternatives could be playing a more puzzle/ intelectual Zelda game staring the Princess alone.
A story line in which we play as Ganon as he grows up and in the end fights Link and Zelda.
A story in which we play as an evil Zelda.
A story in which Ganon and Link grow up together as thieves and fight off a new evil.
I could see a Zelda oriented Zelda game being cel shaded.
Post by: Caillan on November 30, 2004, 05:18:47 PM
As for playing as Zelda, I honestly don't want Zelda to pan out into a large multiple-genre franchise like Mario has. As long as it's not a spin off like Tetra's Trackers, I'm sure it will be fine.
Post by: UncleBob on November 30, 2004, 06:30:55 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on November 30, 2004, 11:19:04 PM
Post by: odifiend on December 01, 2004, 01:52:26 AM
EDIT: Well since I suck at using the forum's search I can't find it... but I have pitched an idea where Ganondorf was the main character in a Zelda game. It used to be in the Hyrule channel so maybe it was deleted?
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 01, 2004, 02:02:45 AM
Let's stay away from this kind of garbage/milking with this series, k?
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on December 01, 2004, 02:03:58 AM
Post by: Michael8983 on December 01, 2004, 02:45:06 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on December 01, 2004, 02:54:48 AM
Back on topic, I think Nintendo should stay away from these ideas that simply milk the series. Just go play SSBM to play as Zelda or (I know he's not quite Ganon, but) Ganondorf.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 01, 2004, 05:18:58 AM
Post by: Renny on December 01, 2004, 05:46:12 AM
Post by: - dragon - on December 01, 2004, 05:53:10 AM
Post by: odifiend on December 01, 2004, 06:40:53 AM
Post by: Deguello on December 01, 2004, 08:21:34 AM
Quote
It would be more likely for them to make a Zelda game with Zelda as the main character with Link and Ganon as computer controlled characters.
Just stop thinking please.
Post by: Djunknown on December 01, 2004, 04:06:19 PM
Four Swords Adventures was a nice diversion that made good use of connectivity; I've got absolute confidence that the big N wouldn't make a sub-par game with the title "Zelda" with it.
Post by: nemo_83 on December 03, 2004, 02:10:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Maybe because the idea sucks...
Let's stay away from this kind of garbage/milking with this series, k?
You know the major complaint I had for OoT was that despite the fact that it advanced the series into 3d it did little as far as developing more depth in the game compared to LttP. LttP was leaps and bounds ahead of the original Zelda in my opinion, not just graphically either. I was hoping for such advancement with OoT, instead we got what could now be considered the standard Zelda story. A retelling of LttP, the standard, which is pretty much a retelling of the original game. WW has caught more flack for being unoriginal than any Zelda game I can remember. Despite the water, graphics, and other technical advances the game does little different from the past Zelda games. Where is the voice acting, where is the voice recognition, where is the innovation. Are we going to have to beat congos in the next Zelda? Where is the series going?
Personally I'm tired of Zelda being made into a music game and I want the new Zeldas on the consoles to do new things like voice recognition.
I want to be able to see hawks circling a carcus in future games and know that something is dead ahead. I get there and find a moblin eating a deer, hide in the bushes MGS style, and shoot an arrow through the pig's face from safe distance.
Post by: odifiend on December 03, 2004, 03:31:45 AM
"I was hoping for such advancement with OoT, instead we got what could now be considered the standard Zelda story. A retelling of LttP, the standard, which is pretty much a retelling of the original game."
First of Zelda will always be a 'retelling of the original" in that you have an young boy or adolescant rising up to save Zelda and defeat Gannon. I'm not exactly thrilled that the story line is always similiar but it never stops me from playing =P.
Secondly, 3D is an art style. It sounds like you are just bitching about stupidness. You act like OoT did nothing. Z-Targeting and fighting in 3D, Night/Day concept, TIME JUMPING CONCEPT, and the Advancement of the Ocarina seen in LttP. It was the first game to take advantage of the bigger N64 cart and I think it did a damn good job.
The idea for the hawks is cool and use of cover is fine, but one thing that differentiates Zelda from MGS is setting. I love MGS, but I don't really want Zelda to be MGS. The adoptation of that system would force scenes to be choreographed and especially for something that minor, it would not be worth the death of the freedom in Zelda. If wandered into Moblin territory or something and that was the opening- maybe.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 03, 2004, 05:19:41 AM
Your opinion fails...If you want voiceacting go play Final Fantasy and LEAVE MY ZELDA SERIES THE HELL ALONE!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 03, 2004, 06:13:39 AM
Arrgh. Brain hurts. My two least favourite additions to gaming mentioned together as if they are a good idea.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on December 03, 2004, 09:42:21 AM
Post by: TMW on December 04, 2004, 08:56:33 AM
Hell, it's been established Zelda is practically a ninja (Woh-pah!). Link could be off doing something somewhere else and Zelda has to take up the defense of the home front and all that. It'd be a nice change of pace.
And hey, if Peach can get her own game, why not Zelda?
==
Whoops. That'll teach me to quickreply without realizing there's a second page. Now my post seems kinda out of sync. Sorry.
Post by: Rancid Planet on December 04, 2004, 09:30:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TMWshe starts out as this strong, active character, the captain of her own ship and actually doing something, and then she gets taken out of the picture completley and reduced to a simpering, stereotypical female! "Stand back, little lady, it's the mens time to work now." I was so disappointed.
Well, she DID get to help a little with the final battle.
Post by: Savior on December 04, 2004, 05:32:23 PM
Ohh and Zelda playable? only if its Sheik...
Post by: PaLaDiN on December 04, 2004, 06:03:38 PM
Or maybe they could combine their powers and become one superbadguy.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on December 04, 2004, 07:48:04 PM
Post by: Morien on December 04, 2004, 09:47:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hemmorrhoid
seriously, voice acting is the last thing Zelda needs, really, Link just not supposed to talk, never
I don't think voice acting would be a bad idea, as long as it's done well. I mean it beats one sound clip being repeated over and over to let you know what their voice sounds like. Link doesn't talk in text, so there's no reason he should have voice work done. But the other characters could benefit with it. Instead of just having grunts, groans and text we could have grunts, groans, voice and text.
Post by: Rancid Planet on December 04, 2004, 11:03:06 PM
"DOH DAH DAH DOH DOH"
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 05, 2004, 05:15:38 PM
"HEY"
"WISTEN!"
"HELLO?!1"
Unfortunately, Link will only be able to say
"..."
"...Link..."
"..."
Post by: Rancid Planet on December 05, 2004, 10:06:30 PM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 06, 2004, 03:14:00 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on December 07, 2004, 06:05:07 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 07, 2004, 07:20:26 AM
Every so many generations there must be a new Ganondorf born according to OoT. Just like the Link bloodline continues, so does the Ganondorf bloodline. I want a game in which there is a new Ganondorf as well as a new Link and Zelda.
At the same time I wouldn't mind a new Zelda in which the only character that is new is Link allowing for Ganon and Zelda to be more legend. I like the magic of the characters being legendary and imortal as well as the idea of new generations.
There is tons of material within the Zelda universe.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 07, 2004, 07:31:39 AM
Whoa, hold on...There's absolutely no proof in this yet...I will still hold to the belief that there is only one Ganon[dorf] until proven otherwise...And Ganondorf is naturally evil...He's not the kind of character that is good and then somehow turns bad...This isn't Star Wars, Ganon is supposed to be the epitome of evil, and him being good completely throws off that theme...
Post by: odifiend on December 07, 2004, 08:44:32 AM
Bill? Caring about story and themes no less?
{=?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 07, 2004, 09:39:38 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 07, 2004, 11:34:05 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 07, 2004, 11:55:00 AM
Ganon is not evil. Even the most depraved humans in history like Hitler cannot be equated with powerful pure evil. Hitler had to be defecated upon by his cousin to get it up and justified his actions with the gospels claiming the jews killed christ and caused the world woe. Every character has multiple sides. Without some good inside them, even if it is a delusion, to motivate and justify actions a person is not going to rise to the level of power of Hitler. Evil comes out of the action of people thinking well. Evil comes out of people who seek to do good usually, they believe they can control everything. They believe they can fix the world, but what always happens is war, death, and despair. The world won't be destroyed by the douche that wants to destroy it, it will be destroyed by the person who thinks they can save it.
Vader doesn't hit a switch one day and turn evil, something had to happen to turn him to the dark side. There is a damn good reason why Darth Vader is one of the best villains ever made, because he is a good guy.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 07, 2004, 12:09:59 PM
Nemo we don't need some philosophy discussion here. It's a GAME. It's fiction. So having a pure evil being is acceptable. Pure evil beings are present in mythology so it's perfectly acceptable for Ganon to be pure evil.
What's next? Have a sequel to Eternal Darkness where you play one of the elder gods? There's no given explanation for their evil. They just desire to destroy everything. Or how about Sauron? He wants to rule Middle Earth because he lusts for total domination and power. There's no "well he seeked to do good initially" stuff there and it works.
Post by: nemo_83 on December 07, 2004, 02:29:40 PM
Just look at the source material for these Zelda games. Before the Arthurian lore there was Beowulf. Beowulf's first monster, Grendal is a memorable character not because of the horrible things he does. Grendal is great because at the end of his fight with Beowulf he rips his own arm off to get away from Beowulf who has a hold of him. The wound he inflicts upon himself is what kills him. The character who was a mass killer and man eater showed fear of death, pain, loss of freedom, and much more with character depthening actions.
Look at Jaws. The shark is an animal right. An eating machine. But that isn't scary, because real sharks are eating machines. They don't think, they don't plot, they don't have malice. But the shark in Jaws is more than animal. It does what so few animals have ever done in the wild. It kills and kills and kills and kills. Not because it's what it does or must do to get by, but because it wants to. It wants to kill another person. We don't need a monolougue to tell us the shark wants to kill the three men on the boat. Spielberg spells it out with action and he does it better than anyone. Jaws is scary not just because of the way it is done or that its a shark. Jaws is scary because behind those teeth and black emotionless eyes ticks the mind of a human. That is what makes a monster.
Even Satan is not ''evil.'' The character's sin was pride. Pride got the greatest angel in heaven kicked out. He wasn't eating babies. He just realized he was better than everyone else. After that the character is demonized and cast out. What would you do? What would you do if god gave you enough rope to hang yourself with, but not enough for your feet to touch the ground afterwards and you knew he knew beforehand. Wouldn't you then try to destroy every consecutive creation. But if the myths play out according to the rules, god creates Satan knowing Satan will have pride and wage war, knowing Satan would be cast out, knowing what he was going to create afterwards. Thus the creation of Satan is for the purpose of causing the first man and woman to be cast out of Eden. Not so he could have been the greatest angel. God made him so great in the text for the purpose of creating this figure who would be capable of reasoning his sin and causing himself to be kicked out of heaven so there could be an enemy to prove god right. So even Satan, the prince of darkness, is not evil, he simply flawed. He was impatient and prideful and became so much more because of it.
Post by: PaLaDiN on December 07, 2004, 03:44:55 PM
Meanwhile, we're talking about a game that would not be better if the character didn't represent pure evil.
And I beg to differ about Darth Vader. He was awesome before he ever helped Luke. Finding out he was actually good just wussified him.
Rational depth and general wishy-washiness will only get you so far. The best villains are the ones that succeed in pissing you off while looking really cool at the same time. Just look at Kefka and Sephiroth and yes, Darth Vader.
Post by: odifiend on December 07, 2004, 03:49:53 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 07, 2004, 03:53:36 PM
Hylian Boy-Toy: "The pointy end of this sword belongs in your forehead."
*SUPER CLIMACTIC BATTLEZ*
"The END. Thanks for playing. Presented by Nintendo."
~~~~~
"Jaws" was scary because the shark didn't really have a lot of screen time. Spielberg filmed the original in such a way to tap into audiences' fear of the unknown. The presence of the shark was obvious, but by not showing much of the fishy, the viewers' anticipations were being played with, letting the tension originate in their own minds rather than a direct influence of terrifying on-screen imagery. This also prevented the novelty of the "monster" from being diluted throughout the film (considering the other films of the time), so when you did get a good look at Mr. Teethy Sushi, there was still reason to be excited. This stuff was mentioned on A&E's biography of Steven Spielberg.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 07, 2004, 05:27:21 PM
For those who haven't seen it:
We know girls require bothh time and money. Therefore:
GIRL = TIME x MONEY
And we know that time is money...
TIME = MONEY
Therefore:
GIRL = MONEY (squared)
And we know money is the root of all evil:
MONEY = EVIL
Which must mean:
GIRL = EVIL (squared)
Post by: Djunknown on December 07, 2004, 05:52:25 PM
Nemo, you make good points on memorable evil characters, but remember that Nintendo is not gaming's greatest storyteller. They have one of the best gameplay experiences, but the Big N skimps on good, vibrant storytelling. When we rack our brains to STILL somehow make all the Zeldas released to fit into some puzzle, somewhere inside you saying is "F this, I'm just going to play the game."
I'd wiegh in if a Ganon(dorf)- Link allaince were to be done, it'd have to be done tastefully. No one expected the Wind Waker to be cel-shaded, so who knows what Shiggy will let Anouma get away with? We'll most likely see a Zelda in her game(Unless they cancel it); the proverbial bets are off.
EDIT: Typos and Grammar.
Post by: odifiend on December 07, 2004, 06:05:03 PM
I think making cel-shaded Zelda is different than making a story where Link and Ganon interact cooperatively. Both require much creativity, but apples and oranges.
Post by: Rancid Planet on December 07, 2004, 11:54:54 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 08, 2004, 12:52:55 AM
LINK+THEGANNON VS. ZELDA!!
THEY BAND TOGETHER TO FIGHT THE COMMON EVIL AND OVERTHROW THE CORRUPT GRASP OF DESPOTISM!! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
Post by: KDR_11k on December 08, 2004, 05:03:37 AM
Professional: Pah, I'd like a game where you as evil Zelda conquer other nations and put those Gerudos into camps!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 08, 2004, 01:10:01 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on December 09, 2004, 06:31:08 AM
Dont you think the Zelda Universe is perfect for for a sophisticated porno plot
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 09, 2004, 12:50:49 PM
Post by: Dasmos on December 09, 2004, 01:31:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hemmorrhoid
Maybe Princess Zelda isnt just evil, but also a big fuking dyke, with a long whiplash, tight leather clothes and BIGASS muscles, the classic carpet muncher
Dont you think the Zelda Universe is perfect for for a sophisticated porno plot
That description kinda reminds me of Impa in OoT? Maybe that's were Zelda would get it from
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 09, 2004, 01:42:34 PM
ZERUDAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
TIME FOR YOUR PUNISHMENT!!!!!!!
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on December 10, 2004, 03:03:26 AM
I totally forgot about Impa, what a great character, now we know what Shiggy really is into
