Post by: Jonnyboy117 on November 08, 2004, 09:23:45 AM
Link to the interview
Post by: Ian Sane on November 08, 2004, 09:46:39 AM
"then we unfortunately had kind of a lag period when we weren’t able to fill the pipeline with as many different products as we wanted to. But I think consumers were very excited and they got worn down waiting."
YES! Finally a Nintendo rep acknowledges that. The lag period killed the Cube in my opinion. I remember at the time they released a press release that practically bragged about how they had so many titles coming out. It was quite insulting and depressing at the time. She's basically saying "we f*cked up" and I just wanted to hear that for once instead of constant spin doctored crap.
"And what we’re looking at now is not so much the hardcore gamers. We’re looking at a wider audience, the value purchaser"
This, as a Cube owner since launch, bugs me. If they focus too much on the value purchaser they're ignoring the core fanbase, the people who bought the Cube as their main console instead of a secondary budget console. Now it's not as bad as it was. We all remember the first ever Cube demo disc that was only available to new purchases. That was the worst because in that case they were clearly ignoring the fans in favour of new buyers. Obviously things are better now but it's something that Nintendo has to take into account next gen. Part of the job of the console maker is to keep the current fanbase happy. And that means once in a while releasing something that's just for the fans and doing stuff for the hardcore. Those of us who have owned a Cube since the beginning are the ones who are going to buy a Revolution at launch. One thing that MS has totally nailed this gen is keeping their most hardcore fans happy. A relatively small percentage of Xbox owners use Xbox Live yet MS still pushes it huge and encourages developers to support it. MS is always making an effort to bring third party titles to the Xbox. Some of these are titles like Metal Slug 3 that are not going to sell millions of copies but will please the hardcore fans. Nintendo doesn't do that. When they get a third party title it's always a really major game. There's no minor titles that are for the fans only. Every idea to them has to be mass market friendly so that's why we have no online support and why new Cubes don't support the component cables. There needs to be a balance.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 08, 2004, 09:54:19 AM
Post by: Pale on November 08, 2004, 10:18:09 AM
Post by: Savior on November 08, 2004, 10:45:41 AM
No it wasnt... Luigis Mansion, Wave Race and Star Wars wasnt enough... sure Smash Brothers came soon but it wasnt enough...
Hopefully the Revolution has a stronger launch lineup.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 10:45:57 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 10:53:15 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 08, 2004, 11:01:07 AM
PK was definately playing the spin game, really spinning her answers to be positive for Nintendo, and sometimes there wasn't much positive to really say. However, I do believe that underneath it all you could see Nintendo is analysising there mistakes, and trying to figure a means to fix these mistakes the "Nintendo way." What I mean by that is Nintendo is a very proud company, and a very different company. In fact there pride comes from just how different they are. So Nintendo is trying to solve the internet play a unique way, so that they can say they did something but they can also say they did it better.
I was disappointed in the DS answers though. Specially the reaction to PSP. PK positioned Nintendo as almost being arragont with their position. "What is Sony doing to watch Nintendo?" Well we know what they are doing. They are pricing themselves aggressively, and are going to try to win the market with a suavy powerful portable system that is flashy and sweet.
Last, we really don't think you are being aggressive when you price the system to make money. Now we know you can drop the price alittle and still be ok. Do something truely aggressive and react and play hardball. Please.
Post by: Savior on November 08, 2004, 11:05:59 AM
Very true... but she cant say there would be a price cut, because it would hurt the launch of the DS... Even though i expect it mid 2005 to drop to 119.99 or possibly 99.99
But she could have hinted at possibly Mario Kart, Metroid Prime Hunters, other real good software/killer apps being released early 2005.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 08, 2004, 11:16:54 AM
Geez. You're even more critical than I am. Neither of those were remakes. They were sequels. And I thought both were great.
The Cube launch isn't absolutely terrible. Luigi's Mansion was a very poor choice for a flagship title but aside from that the lineup was acceptable (it's WAY better than the DS launch at least). The problem was the drought that followed. The Cube launch lineup could have lasted us until February or so. That problem was that it had to last until April and even then it wasn't until like August that games started coming out at a normal rate. If Super Mario Sunshine was at launch instead of Luigi's Mansion and the drought didn't happen I think most of us would have been quite pleased with the Cube launch.
Nintendo acknowledges the drought, or "lag period" as Perrin called it, so they hopefully won't repeat the same mistake. They don't acknowledge Luigi's Mansion but hey they're launching with a port as the lone first party title for the DS so they haven't got it perfect yet. 1/2 is better than nothing.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 11:27:12 AM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on November 08, 2004, 11:30:37 AM
Post by: Pale on November 08, 2004, 11:42:55 AM
But wait... 3D makes everything better rightghth/?!!?
Argh... Melee is by far my favorite game of all time..hands down...if you have the nerve to call it a freaking port...please go play the original again....
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 08, 2004, 11:55:56 AM
Quote
I would have considered SSBM a sequel if it had had three dimensional arenas and online. Also why weren't there more Zelda universe characters in the game? It was fun, but I stoped playing it shortly because I had already played it to death on the N64.
It had three characters, three and a half, technically. That's plenty. Only one that deserves more is Kirby, which has one and could very well have two or three, and maybe Earthbound. Your qualifications for a sequel are ridiculous.
I think the launch was fine, with Pikmin and SSBM shortly afterward. Luigi's Mansion was a good game, but it was too short and a more substantial game should have been at launch. I agree with Ian, thinking that the lag afterward was what hurt the most.
EDIT: Make that four Zelda characters, if you include young Link. More than enough.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 08, 2004, 12:14:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
I would have considered SSBM a sequel if it had had three dimensional arenas and online. Also why weren't there more Zelda universe characters in the game? It was fun, but I stoped playing it shortly because I had already played it to death on the N64.
Ahahahaha! All credibility LOST...Online adds NOTHING...3d would add NOTHING, and would most likely DETRACT from the game...
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 08, 2004, 12:47:15 PM
You have no idea how glad I am that you don't work for Nintendo.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 08, 2004, 12:51:57 PM
She should have highlighted 1st party games that would be out when the PSP will launch. Just that alone would say, hey we are aggressively positioning are games for quick release to provide our supports with better games at a quicker time.
And yeah Nintendo can't announce hey if you wait you will save $50 when we cut the price to compete. That is why Nintendo needs to announce a smaller price cut now. Simply put $150 doesn't look that good against $200, however, $125 looks really good. But even if $25 price cut is too much. A $135 is something.
Or Nintendo could have announced keeping the $150 price and giving Mario DS away. Or even giving a half price your first game purchase with the DS. Any of these promotions would have been big and thrown the excitment back towards Nintendo.
In the end, the answer was weak. The response Nintendo is taking towards Sony is playing it safe. They would rather ensure they make money with this gamble then try to hit that home run and bury they PSP.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 01:10:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
I would have considered SSBM a sequel if it had had three dimensional arenas and online. Also why weren't there more Zelda universe characters in the game? It was fun, but I stoped playing it shortly because I had already played it to death on the N64.
Ahahahaha! All credibility LOST...Online adds NOTHING...3d would add NOTHING, and would most likely DETRACT from the game...
To say online adds nothing is to say that SSBM and other multiplayer games are just as good when you play them alone as they are when eight of your friends are smack talking each other passing around controllers. Multiplayer is what SSBM is truly built for and adding to the multiplayer experience can only help that type of game.
Three dimensional arenas would allow for one television to show an entire level without having to span out to the nth degree. Sometimes with the two dimensional stages you had people on opposite ends of the stage, nothing wrong with that, but in tw dimensions you have to base everything in left to right space. Three dimensions give square feet so that the camera is able to see most all of the action all of the time without zooming. Plus with three dimensions SSBM would allow for a third dimension in dodging.
I strongly believe that SSBM would be much better if it were 16-32 player online.
When exactly did Pikmin come out? I anticipate the third one to focus on opposing armies of Pikmin, Pikmin entering urban enviroments, and controling Pikmin in the numbers of tens of thousands. Pikmin was the only truly original big game from within Nintendo this generation. And still it wasn't marketed right. I like the Pikmin 2 ads, but I rarely see them.
Cube had a disappointing launch to me for all of the wrong reasons. Unlike the other consoles' launches Nintendo had a great number of high quality games. Sony had nothing worth nothing at their launch and I think that will hurt their PS3 launch. MS had one really good title in Halo that sold like malasis, but is still selling, and one ok title for the hardcore in Munch's Odyssey which only sold because it was at launch. My point is that Nintendo's launch needed originality. It was formulated. Even if you consider SSBM, Wave Race, and RS2 as sequels, they are still just sequels. Something original was needed. The system could have launched without SSBM, Wave Race, Luigi's Mansion, and RS2 and had a better launch lineup with just Mario 128, Pikmin, and an original mature shooter to counteract Halo. People don't just buy new consoles for new graphics and controllers. They buy new consoles for new games.
Post by: VideoGamerJ on November 08, 2004, 01:28:24 PM
(On a side note: my friend knows Perrin quite well, maybe someday I'll meet her. ^_^)
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 08, 2004, 01:28:36 PM
That's exactly the point...When you play online you ARE by yourself...There's absolutely NO "multiplayer atmosphere" when you play online...
"I strongly believe that SSBM would be much better if it were 16-32 player online."
I disagree for reasons that should be obvious...
And to put SSB into 3d would be to take away the innovative way of "dying"...Health bars are a no-no, thanks...
Post by: Ian Sane on November 08, 2004, 01:37:53 PM
I still think you're wrong about the SSB stuff but your credibility just shot way up with that comment. I don't think the launch lineup was a problem regarding originality because realistically few systems launch with unique titles. However a lack of originality is very present in the Cube's first party lineup. Killer apps are never familiar titles. They're either original franchises (Sonic the Hedgehog, Halo) or sequels that so drastically change things up so that they might as well be a new franchise (Super Mario 64, GTA3). Out of Nintendo's Cube lineup Pikmin, Animal Crossing (US only), and Metroid Prime are the only titles so far that realistically had any chance of being a killer app.
Post by: Pale on November 08, 2004, 01:55:54 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 08, 2004, 02:09:56 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 02:20:13 PM
Online gaming should not be shuned just because it threatens to destroy non-online gaming. While some complain that online is bad, Nintendo is gearing up to bring online gaming on the DS and hopefully the Revolution. Not going online with the Revolution would be like Nintendo saying, "Nah, I think we're gonna try that cart thing again."
A two dimensional Smash Brothers would now only be acceptable in my view on the DS. If they are not capable of making Smash Brothers 3D and preserve the gameplay then they shouldn't make one on the Revolution.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 02:22:14 PM
if they are going to change the way Smash Brothers plays then they need to turn it into an RPG like Paper Mario but involving multiple Nintendo franchise worlds and the battles would work like regular Smash Brothers
look at Mario 64 x 4. the multiplayer has Mario characters fighting in 3d. it can work.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 08, 2004, 02:25:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
also camera issues could be assisted by online
So you are saying to make SSB an online-only title...YAY...(and I still don't see how this would work...)
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 02:28:25 PM
im saying online really can open doors for Smash Brothers, you dont have to take those options if you dont want them
Post by: Pale on November 08, 2004, 02:37:24 PM
You are really just convinced that 3D is always better huh.... I can't fathom trying to take smash bros. to 3d... I also can't fathom comparing 64x4 minigameish fighting to Smash Bros. You really just haven't played the game have you....
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 08, 2004, 02:45:32 PM
I'm usually not a violent person, but stuff like this makes me want to kill people.
Why don't you go ahead and buy MK: Deception since that's apparently what you want Smash Brothers to be. In the meantime, please stop trying to turn the game into a pile of crap.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 02:58:10 PM
I don't believe that 3D is the solution for every game, but you can definately offer up the 3D enviroments and character models and still offer a 2D view, but that view would only work with online from the side, and as top down view without online. Im not saying that the camera has to be behind the characters like in a platformer. I prefer 2D camera views, but I feel that a 3rd dimension in Smash Brothers can only exapand the gameplay. It gives twice the amount of space to fight in. Why would you not want to be able to move up and down the screen as well as left and right and jump?
An example of 3D being bad for a game would actually be Mario Bros. which is so strongly based on the height of your jump that you don't need the extra space aloted by 3D to make things any harder. Mario Kart on the other hand doesn't involve the vertical plane so much as it does your turning so it works best in 3D. Another example of games that are good in 3D is Madden. Another example of a game that is best in 2D, Castlevania.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 08, 2004, 03:01:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"If they are not capable of making Smash Brothers 3D and preserve the gameplay then they shouldn't make one on the Revolution."
I'm usually not a violent person, but stuff like this makes me want to kill people.
Why don't you go ahead and buy MK: Deception since that's apparently what you want Smash Brothers to be. In the meantime, please stop trying to turn the game into a pile of crap.
Mortal Kombat is crap regardless of whether it is 2D or 3D.
Are you suggesting that Soul Calibur is crap?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 08, 2004, 03:06:30 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 08, 2004, 03:14:06 PM
No, I'm suggesting there already is a game that is what you want Smash Brothers to be.
Why don't you go out and play SC and leave Smash Brothers the way it is for those of us who like it.
Post by: odifiend on November 08, 2004, 03:16:00 PM
Post by: Djunknown on November 08, 2004, 04:13:09 PM
It seems people are convinced that a 3d Smash bros would complicate things. Not so.
I urge you to play/read about Powerstone (and its superior sequel Powerstone 2) for Sega Dreamcast. Definately one of the most underated titles for that system. Simply put, it had the Smash-bros mentality, put in 3d. Its still easy to pick up and play, and guranteed to give you a rocking good time. I remember playing this title with friends for hours on end.
If the boys at HAL, or whoever's going to make part 3 (assuming its coming) take a few notes, they can take it 3d without complicating to the point of a Soul Calibur or Mortal Kombat.
As far as online, I won't touch that with 10 foot pole. By the time Nintendo (eventually) implements this fearture, we'll probably STILL argue about it.
NOW, about PK, its nice that she is a bit more forthcoming for a change. Maybe the Reggie mentality is starting to rub off on people...
My guess on why PK and Co aren't blasting Sony and MS is that Mr.Gosen(?) from their European Counterpart did such a thing. Remember his little tirade? Maybe the higher-ups weren't too happy with that? Just a thought.
EDIT: Typos and Grammar.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 08, 2004, 04:22:50 PM
But is it as good as Smash Bros?
Don't get me wrong... I played and enjoyed the game. But it's a step DOWN.
Post by: Pale on November 08, 2004, 04:36:40 PM
"but that view would only work with online from the side, and as top down view without online"
What?? Online gameplay affects cameras how?? Are you not talking about online and just using the term to mean something about cameras?? Color myself confused.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 08, 2004, 04:37:59 PM
PK's body and spirit was absorbed into the universal force we know as REGGIE.
PK is but one of Reggie's 7 deadly personalities.
Post by: Bloodworth on November 08, 2004, 05:02:26 PM
Quote
but you can definately offer up the 3D enviroments and character models and still offer a 2D view,
Excuse me, but isn't this exactly what Smash Bros. is? There were 3D environments and the character models are some of the most detailed on the system even today.
You must have only barely touched Melee to say the things you're saying. There IS 3D dodging for instance. You've clearly just mashed buttons and not gotten anywhere near the depth of the fighting system and the incredible improvements over the previous game.
Post by: Mario on November 08, 2004, 05:27:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Savior
""the launch itself was great""
No it wasnt... Luigis Mansion, Wave Race and Star Wars wasnt enough... sure Smash Brothers came soon but it wasnt enough...
Hopefully the Revolution has a stronger launch lineup.
The launch lineup was awesome. Three words: Super Monkey Ball.
and to the Luigi's Mansion haters, screw you, the game is a classic!
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on November 08, 2004, 07:31:52 PM
Quote
You guys don't realize that part of what makes smash bros great is its 2d.... Can you imagine trying to pull off juggling combos from beneath with jumps in 3d? I sure can't....Adding the third dimension of aim would make it next to impossible.
I'd like to point out the sick amount of juggling in Power Stone, SC2, Tekken, VF, MK: D, Project Justice, and pretty much every 3D fighter ever made. Nurrrrrrrrrrrr
Quote
That's exactly the point...When you play online you ARE by yourself...There's absolutely NO "multiplayer atmosphere" when you play online...
That's not true, as long as you at least have voice chat. I got to talk to a good buddy I hadn't seen in years over a game of Guilty Gear. All the fighters out are still too laggy, though.
Also, I'm pretty sure what PK was getting at about the hardcore gamer part was that Nintendo wasn't exclusively focusing on them like a lot of folks seem to think they are. Like, for the third party stuff, GC got Ikaruga and VJ (at least initially) in the U.S. and nobody else did. But, you know, they're a company and all, they want the whole delicious pie, if at all possible.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 08, 2004, 09:26:51 PM
Also, if Powerstone already is SSB in 3d, why should SSB become 3d? That would just make it redundant.
And yes, online has the lag issue and until that is resolved a split-second-timing game like SSBM cannot be played online very well. Maybe if they seriously slowed down SSBM...
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on November 08, 2004, 10:08:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Does Powerstone use levels similar to those found in SSBM, i.e. with lots of platforms and holes in between? Because I find platforming in 3d to be very cumbersome, especially when you add a static camera to the mix, since it's very hard to judge your position while airborne.
Yeah, and it works. Better play it for yourself if you want to get a good feel for it. (hoep u got ten bux and a Dreamcast)
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 08, 2004, 10:25:04 PM
It does work, but I doubt you can argue it works better than SSBM. I don't want SSBM to take a step down just because it works.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 08, 2004, 10:46:03 PM
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on November 08, 2004, 11:05:48 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 08, 2004, 11:38:28 PM
Post by: Aussie Ben PGC on November 09, 2004, 01:51:33 AM
Quote
That's exactly the point...When you play online you ARE by yourself...There's absolutely NO "multiplayer atmosphere" when you play online...
I'd have to disagree with that - from what I understand, similarly you'd be saying that when we respond on these forums, we're not interacting with each other. And that's just not true. I'm sure quite a few forum members know each other quite well, even if they've never met each other aside from online. It's a very similar social aspect with Xbox Live, or at least, the experience has been for me. When I played Burnout 3 with five other people, I was playing, and joking, and smack-talking (as I was losing miserably, but nevermind) with them.
Quote
And to put SSB into 3d would be to take away the innovative way of "dying"...Health bars are a no-no, thanks...
Just one thing... when describing Nintendo's methods of gameplay, can we all try for some synonyms? Some examples include "unique", "creative", "avant-garde", "inventive" and "ingenious". Remember, it pays to enrich your word power! (Or so Reader's Digest keeps telling me.)
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 09, 2004, 02:00:35 AM
"When I played Burnout 3 with five other people, I was playing, and joking, and smack-talking (as I was losing miserably, but nevermind) with them."
It's just not the same with me...I need to see my friends around me to feel it...Otherwise, it's just like playing enhanced AI with speak capabilities...
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2004, 04:09:41 AM
Super Smash Brothers, could be done in a 3D enviroment, and it could be very very fun, but what you would have is less of a combo rich fighter and more of a platform fighter...which is what Powerstone was.
Powerstone was alot of fun, but it didn't have very much depth at all, because creating that depth meant much more complicated controls. What you ended up getting was simple button press combos, and fullscreen combos, and not very precise platforming elements. Not really a fighter, and not really a platformer.
I think Super Smash Brothers in 3D could be done easier and very fun, but it would also so dramatically change SSB that it wouldn't feel like SSB. Just how Super Mario 64 is a Mario game, but it doesn't feel like a Mario game compared to the 2D worlds.
I personally wouldn't mind Nintendo trying different things with the king of the hill formula of SSB in 3D...but for revolution only. And then for DS and eventually Gameboy Revolution (whatever) keep it 2D.
Online is another situation completely. I don't like online gaming, but creating a game online doesn't effect the playability of multiplayer at home, or single player. Or shouldn't.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 09, 2004, 06:33:59 AM
This is where I'm wondering where all the people who complain about new games using the same franchises are...If Ninty could do said game then they can make a completely different game...Just not Smash Brothers...
Post by: Ian Sane on November 09, 2004, 06:44:32 AM
If you want to play Powerstone play Powerstone and if you want to play SSB play SSB. Why should they completely overhaul SSB when the one person who wants it changed basically would be content with Powerstone? Here's an idea: Nintendo doesn't wang SSB and thus piss nearly everyone off and then makes there own unique full 3D fighter as an original franchise. That way we get TWO games, both completely different. However I do think that SSBM nailed the formula so dead on that there's not really anywhere to go with it without a complete overhaul (which I don't want; I'm tired of Nintendo making completely new games and then throwing a popular name on the box), except for online play.
We've had this online arguement a million times. ONLINE PLAY DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T STILL PLAY WITH SEVERAL PEOPLE AT HOME! God I'm so sick of this BS where people act like if a game is online you can't play it with friends anymore. You non-online guys could still play SSB at home with three other people. The rest of us would just use the option to play the game multiplayer even when friends aren't over. Plus there's no rule that you have to play online with strangers. Guess what. I don't live with my friends. So being able to play with them without inviting everyone over is a great option. Plus you can have four people playing in one room with four people playing in another room. Stop being brainwashed by Nintendo's propaganda and open your mind.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 09, 2004, 06:49:03 AM
It's about lag... SSBM has ZERO tolerance for lag, and if they have to slow the game down to include online, forget it.
It's also about price... unless online is free forever, I'm not buying this crap. I don't understand why console games can't be like on the PC... it's just ridiculous.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 09, 2004, 06:54:47 AM
And I don't think anyone is arguing with this... =P
Post by: Ian Sane on November 09, 2004, 06:56:52 AM
It's also about price... unless online is free forever, I'm not buying this crap. I don't understand why console games can't be like on the PC... it's just ridiculous."
I'd say those are valid issues. So realistically they should wait until an online SSB is feasible. That's fine with me. Waiting will build more hype anyway. It would suck for the "Omigosh it's been six months I need a new sequel now" crowd but Nintendo shouldn't suck up to those types anyway.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on November 09, 2004, 07:12:50 AM
But I digress, I like the way that SSB is. SUre it's cheap and fun, but so is Mario and we all know how popular that is. The reason why I think many people are getting pissed off if they made it an online game is because that's what developers focus on. When they start to get crazy like pinapple ideas about online, they completely slaughter the single player game, and completely forget about multiplayer (not online). It's happened countless times with the Playstation games. Socom completely ignores using two or more players, but online is there. Halo did it, thank God, but it wasn't great. Timesplitters 2 is a perfect example if that was online. The multiplayer is just terrific, the single player rocks (with bots) and it would be GREAT if it was online.
But what do I know, I'm an architecture student.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2004, 07:32:53 AM
Here is my how to translate Smash Brothers to 3D guide.
1)Create small completely interactive enviroments to fight in that are basically floating Nintendo themed islands.
2)Keep the unique damage system. As you get hurt more the easier it is to smash you and hit you about. In fact also include the same Smash move type controls. EXCEPT, make them charge moves with the attack buttons.
3)Control: 5 buttons 1)Jump, and be used for double jump, 2)Punch, 3)Kick, 4)Block 5)Special
4)Special Move Trigger. Ok this is new to the series. To keep special moves simple and able to work in 3D, hold the Special move trigger and push any of the other buttons or two buttons to do special moves.
5)Game still revolves around king of the hill type gameplay.
6)Keep the game less about stringing combos together and more about positioning, smart platforming, and successful use of items and the enviroment for defense and offense.
7)Keep the insane amount of Nintendo items for power and more.
See, Smash Brothers 3D could be made. And it could work on the revolution.
Post by: Savior on November 09, 2004, 07:46:49 AM
2.Powerstone was great,anyone who doubts it has never played it. Powerstone 2, became THE game to play in between the N64 Smash, and Melle. It had stuff Smash would dream about, the interactive enviroments, Tanks you could jump into, Boats, and plans and turrets.
3.Smash wouldnt work in 3D. Nothing wrong with either game, both are fun. A shame that Capcom basically used the Powerstone Gameplay for that Onimusha 4 player game instead of making Powerstone 3.
Smash is the quintesental party game, but it works best as a 2D game.
Post by: Pale on November 09, 2004, 08:10:36 AM
Boo to that..... You would piss the world off...
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2004, 08:23:12 AM
I am just calling it how I see it. If you are running around in 3D trying to knock people off a 3D island you aren't going to have the luxury to really pull of crazy combos. I thought this design would feel the most like Super Smash Brothers in 3D.
I would like to note. I personally do not want this to be the next step for Super Smash Brothers.
The next step to me is using the DS, and setting up larger arenas to fight up to 8-16 people in.
2D levels with much much more interaction and platform elements.
Last and I think the best achievement is an adventure Co-op mode to play with 4 people that makes you solve puzzles and fight throughout the worlds. Something that like Four Swords Smash Brothers.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 09, 2004, 09:34:51 AM
My comment was sarcasm based on a previous topic around Ninty's "overuse of mascots"
If you are running around in 3D trying to knock people off a 3D island you aren't going to have the luxury to really pull of crazy combos.
I don't see how this would work well...Depth perception would be annoying if you were knocked off the back...
Post by: Finnegan on November 09, 2004, 10:40:06 AM
the only one I have heard about it the mario kart gamecube bundle. Has anyone heard anything about these other bundles and promotions? I want to get some new games but I won't until I find out what these deals are
and yeah smash bro is probably my favorite game of all time. I think that it is such a unique game that the revolutionary step was just creating the first one. From now on, I hope that the sequels are just evolutionary steps from the first one (like how melee was). If nintendo wants to make a 3d kind of fighting game fine but they better not call is smash bro.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on November 09, 2004, 12:19:48 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on November 09, 2004, 12:28:25 PM
I argued for 3D because with it you can fit more people into the stage streamlining the camera work. So the stage doesn't have to be a mile from one end to the other. Some were confused about what I meant about the 2D/3D camera work. There are basically two versions of 2D views (doesn't mean anything about whether anything in view is 2d or 3d); one 2D view gives you accuracy in jumping and landing cause the view is profile, from the side. The side 2d view allows one to move left, right, and up. The other 2D view is from above. It doesn't matter if the background and characters are 3d or 2d, the view from above puts a roof on the 3d space. The view from above allows you to see all your movement forward, back, left, and right. It can also allow you to see the jumping, just don't expect it to be as accurate, not cause it can't be done, it is just up to the developer. If you strongly believe that the 3rd dimension will take away more than it would add to this particular game then you are welcome to your opinion. For example, I believe platforming is too important for Mario Bros to be 3D. I just feel with the multiplayer fighting that 3D will open more doors than it closes. Plus the camera would not be set in stone since the background and characters are 3D. One could have 2D view with 3D backgrounds like Soul Calibur. I wouldn't suggest a camera behind the character like Mario 64, that is a 3D camera (it would work well online or in single player though).
I feel some of the people here are complaining about 3D today in this game, but if Nintendo made the announcement it was actually going to be in 3D tomorrow or later, then they would immediately soil their pants with excitement. I don't need Nintendo to dictate how I feel.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 09, 2004, 12:56:45 PM
And that's the way it goes.
Oh, and Mario needs his hammer. Oh, and if Mario and Luigi are on the same team, it'd be neat if they could do some combonation moves from Superstar Saga. Multiplayer moves would be cool, albeit hard to effectivley pull off. Or something.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2004, 12:58:14 PM
So you have two solutions:
1)Do the best you can and design the game with other means to keep you in the play field and not dying quickly.
2)Really downplay the idea of jumping back onto the playfield. Make the balance where you are scared to go anywhere near the edge, and then also include pitfalls and traps around the center of the field. If you are thrown off, you are thrown off. It would make the game faster paced with many more kills going on. The game would be alittle less about skill, and alittle more about chance, but still fun.
I am just saying the game could be done. Not saying that it could be done completely as well as it could be done in 2D. Somethings just work 100X better in 2D. Like the new DS Kirby game, could not be attempted in 3D at all.
That is also why when I talk about SSBM sequel I talk about enhancing the features they added in Melee, and rounding out the game to make it even better. Balance, Balance, Balance. I don't care too much about new characters, though a few would be nice. I want more depth in adventure mode, a CO-Op Adventure mode. Bots to create your own custom challenges. How about a Custom Challenge mode where you can setup the situations for victory. Set Bot skill levels, how you must win, and then save it to the Gamecard, or trade it with a friend. Stuff like that is what is needed for the next game.
Post by: Deguello on November 09, 2004, 01:07:08 PM
Has Super Smash Brothers EVER been 2D? Did I miss the memo or something?
"Lag, lag, lag, what a myth."
Bullcrap. I played on on of my dorm buddies Xbox's online and it lagged quite frequently, even against a guy from the next state. Oh, and he also said he wanted to do bad things to my mother.
Post by: Pale on November 09, 2004, 01:30:09 PM
As far as this whole debate goes....Smash Bros is a 2d game...that is the way the gameplay is set up. If you/nintendo wants a 3d fighter...they need to make a different game all together. =P
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 09, 2004, 03:15:47 PM
Yes, because the people here agree with everything Nintendo says and there's no skepticism whatsoever.
Get over yourself, dude. Making Smash Bros. 3D is a stupid idea that takes away the whole fighting mechanism Smash Brothers consists of. If you want a 3D fighting game, play something else.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 09, 2004, 11:04:47 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 10, 2004, 03:13:05 AM
Yeah, one on one I can see comboing, but the game isn't just about one on one. You can play with up to 4 people. Which is what makes Smash Brothers, unique. Its one of the very few 4 player fighting games that actually works.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 10, 2004, 08:10:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
"If Smash Bros. remained 2d, I have no dought it could go online easily. "
Has Super Smash Brothers EVER been 2D? Did I miss the memo or something?
"Lag, lag, lag, what a myth."
Bullcrap. I played on on of my dorm buddies Xbox's online and it lagged quite frequently, even against a guy from the next state. Oh, and he also said he wanted to do bad things to my mother.
Didn't I already say that it doesn't matter that Smash Bros. as it stands has polygons, it is still a 2D game.
Xbox Live gives you the control to pick a bad connection or a smooth connection. Depends on who is hosting the match. If you join in on a game and it lags, don't complain, you could see the speed of the host's connection before you even entered the match. I haven't played any multiplayer on Live that has laged, especially to the point that it interupted gameplay. Usually if there isn't enough speed, then the host cannot open the game to more than four or eight people.
What I hate about Live is that the geeks have no social skills. The Xbots hardly speak, and if they do, they aren't always the coolest people. I hate the fact they have this awesome mic, and it hardly gets used. I was hoping for smack talk, glouting, humor. Also Live hasn't got enough people on it. You end up spending too much time waiting for enough people to join in on a match that noone really agrees with the rules on.
Post by: Deguello on November 10, 2004, 09:55:23 AM
We (my dorm bud and me) only found bad connections. That's not to say there are no good ones, but, thus is the way of anecdotal evidence. And the microphone is such a waste, all we heard were quite derogatory insults to one of the players who had a Screenname that might be considered ethnically identifying. If you catch my drift. So it was laggy as hell, and everybody we met was either a prick or a racist. $50 well spent. But this is, of course, anecdotal evidence, much like your experiences of having no lag.
And 3D is a graphical term, period. And that means to me Super Smash Brothers Melee is a 3D game, end of discussion.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 10, 2004, 11:03:54 AM
When people discuss 3D and 2D within gameplay they are talking about the traditional difference of a type of Sidescrolling game, and a game that uses the 3rd dimension in its design.
In that regard SSBM is a 2D. Even games like Viewtiful Joe and that N64 Kirby would fall into the 2D category with that defination.
Now, if we are talking about graphics. Then 2D only refering to traditional sprite based animation. This usually uses traditional animation techniques. Sometimes will use claymation or something different. Then 3D refers to anything that uses polygons or such to create a computer generated 3D model of the characters and world within the game.
In that since SSBM is a 3D game, along with Viewtiful Joe and Kirby.
Personally I really can't believe we got in such a heated arguement on that. Either people needed to define their words once they saw miscommunication was going on. Or let it go realizing what each the other meant.
In short, many do not want Smash Brothers to ever be designed with that 3rd plane to complicate game design, depth perception, and overall the simplistic yet, enjoyable game mechanics of the original.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 11, 2004, 01:35:16 AM
Come to think of it, we should also ignore that with modern engines vertex coordinates are five-dimensional (XYZ screen coordinate plus UV texture coordinate) and textures are also five to six dimensional (width, height, red, green, blue, alpha)
Post by: ZombieGalford on November 11, 2004, 05:40:07 PM
Revolution is Nintendo's last stand in the console business. They still might own the handheld market, but if Revolution doesn't sell, Nintendo will become irreralavent.
PS-
Ian, how the hell do you keep on posting here? This site is a shadow of it's former
self....
Post by: Ian Sane on November 11, 2004, 07:31:36 PM
Uh hi. What was your old username?
I still post here because I like the site and it's not like there's some other amazing Cube site to post on. Plus since the Cube's final position in the console wars is pretty much set in stone I tolerate a lower level of interesting discussion. I fully expect this site and these forums to be on par with their peak once serious Revolution news gets revealed and we can get back to speculating on future potential instead of discussing what went wrong.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 11, 2004, 08:34:07 PM
Post by: ZombieGalford on November 13, 2004, 03:23:22 AM
I use to post under the handle "Galford", but for some reason I'm not sure of, it was banned. My sig kinda sums up the entire situation.
I guess I'm in a bad mood because of PK's interview. It's the same stuff, again and again. I long since learned not to believe a single thing a Nintendo exec says.
I have a question, does Kerrin honestly think that the Nintendo DS is going to be a third pillar? Far as I can tell people are calling it the next Game Boy. Which is not a bad thing, it's preselling like crack candy.
Post by: Renny on November 13, 2004, 04:41:27 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 13, 2004, 10:33:11 AM
Someone's overcompensating. But go ahead and be overly cynical if you want to.
"I have a question, does Kerrin honestly think that the Nintendo DS is going to be a third pillar? Far as I can tell people are calling it the next Game Boy."
Far as I can tell nobody's calling it that. I guess our personal experiences, no matter how irrelevant, cancel each other out then.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 13, 2004, 08:00:57 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 13, 2004, 08:09:00 PM
Realistically a portable Gamecube would be something different entirely to third parties. I assume it would be released well after the Cube was phased out and Nintendo would support it with a brand new launch. It would just have the advantage that the existing library would work on it so Nintendo could fill gaps by re-releasing games without even having to bother porting anything. To third parties it would be a super cool handheld that just happens to have the exact same format and specs as the Gamecube.
I would love that because then we would get new Cube games years after the system had been phased out.
Post by: nemo_83 on November 14, 2004, 03:24:11 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2004, 05:37:47 PM
And thus completely kill off the DS in a Sega-like move that would piss everyone off? I doubt that.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 15, 2004, 04:07:09 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on November 16, 2004, 12:01:21 AM
