Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on October 27, 2004, 11:07:02 AM
As for me, with the announced PSP launch details, the battle seems too similar to the past. A stronger system with weak battery life is challenging nintendo again. I know the PSP has additional features that the previous system's didnt have to brag about, but I honestly don't believe it'll make a huge difference. The PSP including movie and music playback isn't going to be as big as for example when the ps2 came out with dvd playback. The movie playback feature will get the least support of the 3. As for music playback, people can purchase better mp3 players for the price.
At 185 , I'm sure the battle will be alot closer than alot of people have been anticipating. The PSP will sell strong at first but as time passes by, word of mouth plus hands on experience with the "estimated" battery life, will be the PSP's downfall, not the DS.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 27, 2004, 11:19:36 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 27, 2004, 11:33:14 AM
As for the other features well both have unique pros and cons that I think balance out enough that they won't be that big of a deal to the mainstream anyway.
DS:
Pros: First party Nintendo titles, better battery life, touch screen can result in games the PSP can never duplicate, no memory cards needed, Nintendo has tons of experience in the handheld market.
Cons: Lacks the PSP's "cool factor", lacks movie and music features for not much less money, weaker graphics, touch screen may not matter to mainstream and needs a killer app to sell the concept, game cards hold less than UMDs.
PSP:
Pros: Very strong Playstation name, superior graphics, analog stick thingy that the DS doesn't have, music and movie playback which although not perfect are still a feature the DS doesn't have, obvious edge in marketing, very traditional design which is more inviting to mainstream types who just want to play Madden on the go, Sony is traditionally better at third party relations.
Cons: Lacks a quality first party lineup on par with Nintendo, doesn't have same third party advantage that PS2 has with the console market, lack of dual touch screen stuff means that a creative DS game cannot be ported accurately to the PSP, rumoured low battery life, requires memory cards, potential skipping issues with optical medium, usual "Sony factor" regarding product reliability.
So both have a fair share of issues though realistically I don't think any are make or break. It's about who gets that must own game out first.
Post by: VideoGamerJ on October 27, 2004, 12:25:20 PM
-Good advertising.
-Excellent use of all of it's features. For example, it's wi-fi, it needs to implement it to the best, because if it doesn't, Sony will capitalize on it. Official online deals? Yes!
-Many 1st party titles
-Many 3rd party titles, but even more important, they need to use the DS' innovative 2 screens, if they don't, the market will not be convinced.
The Nintendo DS honestly has the lead. It's already got hype and it's already got hit titles. It's focus seems to be wi-fi and multiplayer as well as mainstream appeal, which Nintendo commented earlier at e3. If it can do this well, and start making innovative games, not ports, then we need not worry.
Even though the PSP is coming out earlier than expected, it doesn't have it's good features ready yet. It has launch titles, but does not have it's promising services ready. As well as this, a US date has not been announced. Whether or not Nintendo wants to confirm it, they are going to compete directly with Sony on this as time passes.
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 27, 2004, 12:54:53 PM
However, I think Nintendo has the better handheld.
Better Battery life means that you can actually use the system to play games longer, and can play longer with more confidence.
More hardware features. Yeah, the PSP has an analog thing for its games, but the DS can easily emulate analog control with the second screen. Once again showing the versatility of the system. And don't forget the microphone, dual screens, wifi (which I know the PSP has as well) and you have a very functional and complete system.
Early launch date. This will be important with the Christmas launch. DS has a jump on the PSP.
I think Nintendo will be able to hold on to its handheld market as long as they keep producing the games, and advertising the system for all its worth.
Post by: foolish03 on October 27, 2004, 03:22:21 PM
Post by: thepoga on October 27, 2004, 05:31:09 PM
Also, the DS won't have the release date advantage in Japan, because they're both being released in December there. The PSP actually costs more than 185 dollars automatically, because you have to purchase the memory stick ($26) and so it costs $210 in all. I wonder when they'll announce game prices though.
The DS' price advantage is practiacally gone in the eyes of most consumers. The DS launch (at least in the US) will be a great advantage though.
I think now that the prices are nearly even it's going to come down to the games. Who has that amazing killer app that sells systems? Right now looking at the launch lineups neither has it but at some point some game is going to break out. And it won't be a popular sequel either. Killer apps are usually something that comes right out of left field.
As for the other features well both have unique pros and cons that I think balance out enough that they won't be that big of a deal to the mainstream anyway.
Also, people have forgotten the big advantade the PSP has over the DS. That huge screen. But it kind of excludes the top down shooter genre. The DS will be able to do that and plus introduce FPS games to the handheld market. I think a good FPS (other than Metroid) will be a huge killer app.
Post by: Chongman on October 27, 2004, 05:42:11 PM
Quote
Also, the DS won't have the release date advantage in Japan, because they're both being released in December there. The PSP actually costs more than 185 dollars automatically, because you have to purchase the memory stick ($26) and so it costs $210 in all. I wonder when they'll announce game prices though.
And remember this, DS is already the third best selling console in Japan. I think that might have been what finally made Sony start to sweat bullets.
Post by: kurst_chao3030 on October 27, 2004, 06:54:33 PM
Post by: TMW on October 27, 2004, 06:56:55 PM
At 128mb a card, with the potential battery life of just having sound with minimal screen output...I think the DS could make for a pretty good mp3 player. Then again...I know next to nothing of the technology, so I may be missing some important bit here...
Anyhoo...Something along these lines could seriously close the gap between the DS and PSP in lieu of apps other than just Gameplaying. SeewhatImean?
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on October 27, 2004, 06:58:05 PM
EDIT: I have another nice little tidbit of info that should be brought up. The following quote is from one of the users on the N-Sider forums. Enjoy...
"Originally Posted by Samer!!
Here's something interesting quoted from Gamasutra News, refering to the announced battery life range:
These figures have, by Sony’s own admission, been arrived at by limiting the display luminance and volume, as well as using headphones rather than speakers, and ensuring the wireless LAN is not in use. This could suggest that a less careful use of the console would result in a battery life closer to the 2 hours previously suggested by some observers."
Post by: foolish03 on October 27, 2004, 08:37:52 PM
Post by: soundwave5 on October 27, 2004, 08:43:56 PM
For $50 more you're getting a huge generation leap in visuals, but not only that the widescreen display and the 24-bit color depth is practically unheard of on a portable device. Ask anyone who's demoed the unit at E3 or TGS, the display on the PSP is gorgeous.
Battery life is lower, but that's to be expected. Sony has wisely though added the option of swappable battery paks. You can effectively bring your PSP battery life up to 8-12 hours for longer road trips if you go with a second battery.
The touchscreen on the DS is very cool. I think it's a good idea. My personal gripes with the DS is the image quality is really horrid. I don't mind the N64 graphics, I still fire up my N64 now and again and have no problems except for the choppy framerate of the FPS titles. I don't however like the "jaggy" look of the DS in 3D though. It reminds me of the original Playstation or Saturn, and I just hate that "look".
DS is a nice looking unit, but the PSP is actually apparently a bit smaller and even lighter. And I think it just looks really badass.
Game wise, right now both systems seem to have a lot of ports or "expanded" quickie sequels.
If you like Nintendo's franchises obviously I would say go with DS, if you like more of Playstation-centric franchises like Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto, Devil May Cry, etc. PSP is your ticket.
I'm getting both, but I like the PSP a little more at this point. For me it's got a bit more "wow" factor to it, whereas with DS, I'm not so sure it's not just a stop gap until they can get a proper Game Boy Next out.
Post by: Edfishy on October 27, 2004, 08:50:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: soundwave5
...whereas with DS, I'm not so sure it's not just a stop gap until they can get a proper Game Boy Next out.
Doubtful. This sounds like it'll be a keeper for atleast four years, which I cannot promise with the PSP, since the PSP is going all out technology. Its technology will be dated within two years.
Post by: soundwave5 on October 27, 2004, 09:19:47 PM
Nintendo has said openly that Game Boy Next continues in development. So I don't know.
Post by: Procession on October 27, 2004, 09:25:05 PM
I know what I am - I could do with an MP3 player.
Post by: Lost101 on October 27, 2004, 10:50:43 PM
35 dollars for a leap from N64 graphics to PS2 graphics, thats how most people will see it, and hell even I am tempted by it and Im a huge nintendo fan. In an ideal world Nintendo would drop the price of the DS by $50 right now. Call me an optimist,
Post by: chain chomp on October 27, 2004, 11:13:29 PM
nintendo have put their heart and soul into this device (something they didnt do with the GC) and its showing 3rd best selling console nintendo will win the war microsoft will go first then sony vs nintendo nintendo will win psp will attack gba SP and win but the ds AND GC WILL CRUSH PSP THEN GBA 2 DS GC REVOLUTION WILL CRUSH PS3
NINTENDO CROWND AT LONG LAST KINGS OF GAMING
Post by: Lost101 on October 27, 2004, 11:19:06 PM
I know all of y'all are really into innovation, I am too, but hell do y'all remember your initial reactions to the DS? Not good were they? Most people will first hear about the DS at the store right after seeing a PSP commercial.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 28, 2004, 12:32:19 AM
I have doubts about Sony's data. It doesn't add up. At first they claim a price close to 500$, now they're down to 190$, prices don't come down like that, they must take heavy losses there. Since unlike Microsoft Sony isn't profitable and actually NEEDS the profits of their game division this would mean they're screwed. They wouldn't do that.
I'm thinking it's a lie. Sony sees they cannot take down the DS in a fair match and decides to use the same strategy they used on the Dreamcast: Pretend their "super powerful" system is just around the corner and hope this prevents people from buying the DS. I'm expecting the PSP to come out a year later after dozens of delays and at a price of 300$.
Post by: Quigoni on October 28, 2004, 01:18:34 AM
Having played the DS (yesterday) and knowing my personal opinion when I first heard about it (holy crap that's cool!) I feel that the DS will do better in the end in this market. Yes, the PSP has certain appeal, but you can get a better MP3 player and a movie player. Heck cellphones now a days do that! (well mine does anyway.)
What I'm not impressed with the PSP is with the propriatery memory sticks. I mean I can understand that for a console system, but a portable? That's one too many trinkets to be carrying along I think.
I was very impressed by the DS yesterday with the games I played and that really helps my thinking here.
-Quigoni
Post by: Procession on October 28, 2004, 01:18:50 AM
The way to do that is release a Gameboy Next, make that the PSP competitor, not the DS. Because head-to-head, the DS doesn't really match up. Consumers, in spite of whether or not they are, will see the new functionalities as gimmicks. This is not predicting the DS as a total failure, but it is a niche product. Nintendo has to realise it is a little too left-field for many consumers AND developers.
Nintendo have a lot to lose here, with what, 99% of the handheld market. If they lose even 30% of that share to Sony, it's a huge blow. The PSP is serious competition, and this price point has proved. I know people are also skeptical about battery life, but to be honest, even if you only get 3-4 hours, it's something I can deal with. I only play my Gameboy at home, and when I do take it places, I don't really play for more than 3-4 hours without the opportunity of recharging. Also, battery technology is only going to get better.
And chain chomp: "heart and soul" - you're kidding right?
Post by: KDR_11k on October 28, 2004, 04:45:04 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 28, 2004, 04:58:17 AM
How much money is Sony losing on the PSP with this price? I thought everyone was saying there was no way to create that system on the cheap, and yet we see the prices now.
Nintendo DS is still unique, and it has a very strong presence in Japan, and very unique gameplay options. This will help Nintendo sell the system.
Actually this is going to be very good for us gamers in America, because what it means is Nintendo is going to push to have their first party games ready to counter the American Launch of the system.
We will probably get more games sooner, than Nintendo's usual 1 game every few months that Nintendo likes to pull on us.
I expect to see Metroid Hunters as the game to is released the same day as PSP in America.
Post by: norebonomis on October 28, 2004, 05:17:25 AM
also when i was at EBGames yesterday trading in my gameboy for credit twards my DS pre-order, i felt like i was being treated badly because i was a nintendo fan. i then overheard the guys in the back room dissing the gamecube. how is our favorite game company going to pull through when all these stupid americans are following their blind programmed biases? ninty should take a lesson from some of the 527 election ads and really tear sony down. if not that's ok cuz nintendo is bound to come out on top.
Post by: foolish03 on October 28, 2004, 05:26:39 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on October 28, 2004, 05:39:40 AM
To me Sony won't be the dominate force this time around, everything they have going could back fire on them.
Despite the price being surprisingly $180, still Sony will be losing quite abit, much like in the way M$ did on Xbox.
Even though it's to gain market share, Sony has to overcome it's flaws, ie. Battery life. Not to mention the extras that will be
needed to toll around. Mem cards, UMD only movies etc. That may end up killing it then helping it.
I see no point in what use a remote would be.
In the end it's the games that'll make the system, I see the psp as port city ready to happen, and who's gonna wanna fork $40 or more
for that? The mindles drones.
But me? I'm on my way to Dual Screen Heaven
Post by: KDR_11k on October 28, 2004, 06:56:41 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on October 28, 2004, 07:02:28 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on October 28, 2004, 07:18:10 AM
On the price, it looks like Sony is serious. I've been saying that Sony wouldn't be stupid enough to charge over $300 for the system, and guess what? They weren't. This is PS2 and GameCube all over again: the price difference is so little nobody will care, especially since the PSP is clearly much more powerful than the DS.
On battery life, 4-6 hours is not great, and Sony seems to be skewing the numbers a little bit. However, buy one extra battery and suddenly you the same or better battery life than the DS. That's all it takes, and unlike the Game Gear, you're not burning through $10 worth of AAs, since the batteries are rechargable. Sony could possibly release more powerful batteries in the future, too. I don't think this is going to be a big deal to most consumers unless Sony is flat-out lying.
Too me, Sony has practically destroyed all of DS's tangible advantages, and Sony still has the huge tangible advantage of more powerful technology. Now DS has to stand on innovation and games. You can't put innovation in a bullet point, consumers don't seem to care that much about innovation, and most of all, Nintendo hasn't even shown us that much innovation in the titles it's selling at launch.
I have to say well done to Sony. This is exactly what the PSP needed, and in my opinion, Nintendo will now have to fight tooth-and-nail to maintain first place in the portable market. I will not be surprised if Sony takes over most of the portable market in the next 3-5 years.
I'm still planning to buy a DS, and I still think it will have better games than the PSP. Now Nintendo needs to convince everyone else that's true.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 28, 2004, 07:32:48 AM
I think that's the most important flaw with the DS right now. All these promises of innovation and all Nintendo gives us is a remake. Regardless of how good Super Mario 64 DS may turn out and how cool the new features may be it's still a re-release, which is the least innovative thing a developer can do. The innovative features of the DS are functionally useless without games that make full use of it. That was the problem with connectivity. It took Nintendo over two years to deliver something that truly made good use of that feature. Meanwhile the online features of the Xbox were in full use a year after launch and DVD playback on the PS2 was useful since day one. In the longrun I think innovative game design is better than MP3 playback but MP3 playback will be fully functional from day one and instant gratification is what the general public looks for. Nintendo can't expect people to wait for their unique features to be implemented. The PSP is offering its features from day one.
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 28, 2004, 07:49:27 AM
This is an interesting interesting situation.
Most people believe that in the US the PSP will hit answer between Febuary to late March. This gives Nintendo DS a 3-4 month headstart and a launch during the busiest shopping season. With the number of presales for the DS, and the future of Pokemon on that system in Japan the DS is going to be ok. Nintendo is going to be fine.
In America during shopping season nobody cares about when something else is going to be out, all they care about is what is out now. Therefore I see strong sales for the DS this holiday season and beyond.
My question is really about next year. Sony is obviously taking a profit hit, and its going to be a pretty big risk. Here is why. Say conservatively Sony is only losing 25 dollars per unit. If they sell a million units that is 25 million dollars lost. They are going to have to make that up in sales of games, movies, and music for the PSP. Its pretty fair to say that unless Sony plans on releasing PS3 next year (which I think the date is actually for 2006) then their main focus will be on the new system. Very smart.
There is just one problem. Microsoft. If the Xbox2 is released next year, Sony is going to be losing market share to the new system, unless they launch at the same time. Sony's PS3 is going to be a huge risk with the expense and technology they are using, and in America Sony's name isn't nearly as dominate with the Xbox out there.
Basically, Sony could be shooting itself in the foot with these big products and losses. The competition could eat them alive, and even if they maintain marketshare, their loses will not reflect well on the company.
Nintendo however is releasing the system at a profit most likely. Every unit they sell adds to their warchest. Every game sold adds to the warchest. Every delvelopment fee to 3rd parties adds to Nintendo's funds. So if the project fails or isn't as successful as Nintendo hopes, it still would not have lost much, if anything at all.
Nintendo will basically have 3 systems out for developers to use:
GBA: developers wanting to create a game on the cheap will use this system.
NDS: Developers wanting to create unique titles or a different handheld market will go here.
Cube: The homesystem market.
The development for the GBA is going to die. Perhaps it will be a slow death, but it is still going to die, and really Nintendo doesn't care. It has already made its profit off the system, and the system is already pushed to its limit.
Nintendo DS is the new Gameboy Advance, just as the SP was. This new system will be around for probably 2-3 years and then Nintendo will release the real Gameboy successor.
The key is no matter what Nintendo is making money...and the same isn't true with Sony.
In fact, next generation I see Microsoft gaining the most marketshare, followed by Sony, and Nintendo with a last place, but in stronger positions then it was with the Cube, and perhaps tied with Sony. The difference is Nintendo will be making a profit, Sony won't be, and Microsoft may not be either.
Post by: couchmonkey on October 28, 2004, 08:29:36 AM
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on October 28, 2004, 10:13:33 AM
Yes the system has a cheap base price but thats not all that people will be buying. To get anything out of your PSP, you will need to buy the PSP, a memory stick, and a game, that should break well into the 250 dollar range. Throw in the optional headset, carrying case and extra battery pack and your breaking into 300 plus range. The 185 price tag will look pretty up in the stores but once someone goes to actually buy it, they'll start to add up the costs of everything else they need, and that my freind will put a huge damper on their party.
Remember people, portable gaming is about ease of play, pick up and go gameplay. How enjoyable is a PSP going to be when you have to remember to charge the battery before you go to ensure it doesn't die out half way, remember to bring your memory card so you can actually play the game and be sure to be extra gentle with it so as to not create any scratches on its big lovely screen. Looks to me like the PSP is in more need of a planner and touch screen to keep everyone on check on everything they will need to do and bring in order to enjoy their system. They should release the PSP with a duffle bag or something to help carry all this stuff cuase no one is about to have games, the PSP, an extra battery and a memory stick poking out their jeans along with their keys , wallet and whatever else.
As for the graphics, 3d should stay in the home business, I like my portable gaming to stay 2d. The portable industry is an escape to more old school gaming. Its our only source for those type of games and if portable gaming were to make the transition to full 3d then goodbye to 2d sidescrollers and shooters, old school rpgs too. I don't want to see that happen. As for the jaggies that everyone is complaining about, don't stress it, it wont be so obvious on such a small screen.
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 28, 2004, 03:39:30 PM
All the goes out the window if Nintendo and Warp Pipe brings Poke'mon Online to the Ds with a real life league. Nothing in the entire evil empire of Sony can combat the force of Poke'mon online. NOTHING I SAY. And I have never played the game a day in my life and I know that. That is unless the make a GTA: Earth...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on October 28, 2004, 05:56:43 PM
Sometimes I think sony's over confindence may be their downfall.I hear alot of developers are not pleased with the PS3 in terms of ease in development and programming for.
Which in turn makes it worse than the PS2 to work on.
Post by: Draygaia on October 28, 2004, 06:30:08 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on October 28, 2004, 06:39:54 PM
Post by: VideoGamerJ on October 28, 2004, 08:28:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
For me the decision isn't DS or PSP, it's PSP or PS2. But then I'm not an average casual gamer.
I have doubts about Sony's data. It doesn't add up. At first they claim a price close to 500$, now they're down to 190$, prices don't come down like that, they must take heavy losses there. Since unlike Microsoft Sony isn't profitable and actually NEEDS the profits of their game division this would mean they're screwed. They wouldn't do that.
I'm thinking it's a lie. Sony sees they cannot take down the DS in a fair match and decides to use the same strategy they used on the Dreamcast: Pretend their "super powerful" system is just around the corner and hope this prevents people from buying the DS. I'm expecting the PSP to come out a year later after dozens of delays and at a price of 300$.
If that happens, Nintendo is in serious luck. That would be very awesome.
As for the DS, if it shows it's abilities before PSP does, the developers will flock to it, afterall, it's a lot easier to develop for that type of system because it can be 2D, where as Sony said something about not making 2D games anymore (if anyone remembers). Honestly, I say that going online is extremely critical for Nintendo and whether or not they realize it, they MUST do it. Online gaming out of the box will truely amaze the mainstream market. If PSP is proprietary media, their interesting features have a downfall. Also mentioned, the more stuff that you have to carry, the worse it becomes. DS has a stylus holder and the thumbstrap attaches. That's it (unless you have games). The PSP has got a bunch of stuff which doesn't sound too thrilling.
Nintendo DS' advantages at this point
-Easy, efficient and affordable development (not as good as GBA, but still)
-Jump start the American Market and Japanese Market (USA being far ahead of SONY).
-Many 1st party games in development.
-Possible introduction to a lot of advertising (they are spending the most in adver. in their history if I'm correct)
-Wireless gaming and the concept of going places, downloading games and sharing games
-Obvious built-in features
PSP's advantages
-Shocking price
-Playstation name
-Graphics
Of course there is other various things, but this is what comes to my mind.
PSP advantages
Post by: Quigoni on October 28, 2004, 09:41:34 PM
If something breaks I also look at if I have to deal with people on the phone and what the deal will be.
-Quigoni
Post by: KDR_11k on October 29, 2004, 05:01:50 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 29, 2004, 07:51:09 AM
Unless, they know prices are going to be dropping soon and then they are just launching early to make sure Nintendo DS has competition. Then in a few months when prices come down they will be in better shape.
If this is what Sony is doing, don't expect the US launch until those prices drop, because it will kill them otherwise.
I still say this information isn't correct. My idea would only work with about a 100 dollar loss, because prices don't drop enough to make up a 300 dollar lose.
Those numbers don't add up.
Of course alot of this anouncement with the PSP doesn't add up. It could simply be we all over estimated how much the PSP product would cost and Sony made some great deals to get lower prices.
Post by: vudu on October 29, 2004, 07:51:59 AM
Edit: Nevermind. I spend two minutes and hopped on over to GameSpy and found it myself. Here it is for anyone who feels like reading it. Sony PSP Editor Reax!
The part about losing $350/unit is at the bottom of page two.
Quote
A friend in Japan suggests that Sony will be losing over $350 per unit manufactured, and looking at how advanced the tech is I wouldn't be surprised.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 29, 2004, 07:59:46 AM
I believe Sony's president was quoted at saying that the PSP would cost "around" 350 dollars to produce...
Post by: KDR_11k on October 29, 2004, 09:58:15 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 29, 2004, 10:44:03 AM
Prices change, and companies can make deals with manufactures to get prices even lower.
I can't believe the price the PSP is being marketed at, but I do know that Sony must have pulled something off to be able to get such a low price.
As mentioned before, if the price is really that low and it costing them 100-150 dollars to sell each system, they would be 150 million dollars in debt if they sold 1 million in Japan. that is a huge loss for the company. A loss that can't be made up easily in software.
Post by: Zach on October 29, 2004, 10:52:48 AM
As they say; Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on October 29, 2004, 11:29:50 AM
The ds is 150 with a demo included and no memory stick or extra battery packs needed. A carrying case would be nice to get but it aint as serious an issue as it is with the psp.
I doubt the psp will sell well in the long run given how much money has to be spent to get some enjoyment out of it. Prospective buyers will see that 250 in their hands and start to wonder why they dont just go and get a gamecube with a handfull of games or an xbox with halo 2.
Has everyone read the article in gamespot with Ken whatever his name is from Sony. He states that the battery life is dependent on the software. So puzzle games will drain less battery power than ridge racer. He also states that wifi being on affects battery life. Its already been stated that the alledged battery life of 4-6 is having wifi off, light dimmed as much as possible and using headphones. Imagine when a Final Fantasy game comes out sucking up energy with all its cinematics and graphics. Your in the middle of some long Cinema or a summon spell and your battery starts to die, so you hurry to get out that fight so you can run over to a save spot just to end up getting caught into another random fight and halfway through that your battery died. In the end your'll left frustrated given you lost your save and waiting on your charger to charge your psp so you can pick up where you left off.
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 29, 2004, 01:12:26 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on October 29, 2004, 01:45:51 PM
Quote
I believe Sony's president was quoted at saying that the PSP would cost "around" 350 dollars to produce...
Link
Back in January..
Quote
Deering characterized the system's likely price as "closer to 200 pounds than 300 pounds." In American currency, that's towards the low end of a $300-450 range.
At just about the time of this report, Sony of Japan announced that they were going to quadruple the amount of RAM they were putting into the PSP. It's not known if Chis Deering was even aware of that yet. And who knows what other changes they may have made to the system since Janauary (since apparently they didn't even have a final working prototype at E3).
Either way, losing $100 on hardware used to be considered "massive".
Here's a thought. How many people are going to hold off on the PSP or the DS until their system of choice has a price cut or two? Now what if the PSP never has a price cut?
Post by: ruby_onix on October 29, 2004, 02:39:00 PM
Quote
Prices change, and companies can make deals with manufactures to get prices even lower.
I think Sony's already played that card a long time ago.
Link
Basically, Sony had signed up Samsung to provide the screens for the PSP, but then they noticed that it was physically impossible for Samsung to make as many screens as Sony was expecting to sell, so they signed up Sharp too, with a so-called "huge" order for PSP screens.
Right now, I don't think Sony's actually making a reasonable attempt for a piece of the handheld market. I think that the PSP's basically a failure at this point. But Sony thought it was going to be so unbelieveably huge that they made massive commitments, so they're going to take a huge bath on it, one way or the other.
So they're in "clearance" mode right now. It's not that they're selling the system for hundreds of dollars in losses. They've already lost that money, and they're hoping to get a few dollars worth of band-aids.
If they put on a brave face, look confident, and people think they have a grand plan, well then, that's all the better for Sony.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 29, 2004, 02:43:43 PM
For their sake I hope that's not the plan. There are a fair bit of third parties who as PSP supporters are likely assuming the PSP will be successful. Those third parties will be pissed off if the PSP is blatant failure that Sony gives up on before it's released. I personally think that's just too wacky of a situation for it to even be considered reality. Not that I don't like the fantasy of Sony crashing and burning.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on October 29, 2004, 04:11:09 PM
Post by: Zach on October 29, 2004, 07:43:35 PM
Post by: kurst_chao3030 on October 29, 2004, 08:05:00 PM
Post by: Zach on October 29, 2004, 08:25:00 PM
Post by: Lost101 on October 30, 2004, 12:54:29 AM
Post by: kurst_chao3030 on October 30, 2004, 06:43:25 PM
Post by: SuperMario35 on October 31, 2004, 09:34:59 AM
Post by: SuperMario35 on October 31, 2004, 09:55:36 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on October 31, 2004, 09:55:57 AM
Mod's hate wasted space.DS seems fine to me, I'm very confident we will see some truely killer apps come, I think Bill see's something intresting about
the DS Goemon game
Post by: MysticGohan24 on October 31, 2004, 10:02:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: SuperMario35
srry about above. Listen Ive been hearing a bunch of people talkin how cool the PSP is and how lame the DS is. They say it doesn't play DVD's and also doesn't play music and also plays alot of 2D games. I agree that DS cant play DVD's and play music but it can improve on the graphics. One thing I really come to notice is that Nintendo keeps making 2D games (that can already be made on the GBA)and adds a few features that the DS has. Most people say that because of the so many 2D games on the DS than 3D its going to fail because people will look at it like it was another GBA with extra features. The only games that ive seen for launch that are 3D are Mario 64 DS,Madden,Tiger Woods,and ridge racer. My point is that Nintendo should make a few 2D games for DS and concentrate on 3D and if they want to make more 2D games like Princess Peach or the new kirby game make it for the GBA after all Nintendo said they wont be abandoning the GBA so why not make 2D games for a 2D platfrom. Take THe new Kirby announced for the DS, it uses the same graphics and gameplay engine that the GBA uses all there adding are the touch pad features and probaly a few more things. Meanwhile the PSP is using alot more 3D graphics on the games. If this continues Nintendo might be in trouble. Who agrees?
No no no no no and ummm.... NO!!!
Come one, DS 2D games? It's perfect, it's rare these days we get to see 2D advanced itself, let's not throw it away. Sony's to blame for failure to realize that 2D is not a badthing.
Incompetent morons, I think the DS can perform well with either. and will bring intresting stuff to the table. As to why they don't bother brining these new 2D games to the GBA? Simple, GBA couldn't handle what the DS can.
Although Nintendo won't abandon GBA anytime soon, besides you still have the GBA port on the DS. Although it will be for the singleplayer experience. Unless someone programs it to run off the DS's WiFi.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 31, 2004, 11:55:00 AM
Quote
The only games that ive seen for launch that are 3D are Mario 64 DS,Madden,Tiger Woods,and ridge racer.
Don't forget Hunters. They're releasing it with the DS systems sold. Plenty of 3D games will be made, but 2D games are awesome too. Yay.
Post by: Edfishy on October 31, 2004, 12:16:01 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 31, 2004, 01:30:16 PM
ooo.. how about a crossword puzzle game? touch screen shows the board from a distance, top screen shows clues for whatever area you touch on the screen.
finally, a game for senior citizens
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on October 31, 2004, 03:28:11 PM
QuoteHaha, take that Sony. Now who's marketing to the older demographic?
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
we'll definitely see some great puzzlers on the DS.
ooo.. how about a crossword puzzle game? touch screen shows the board from a distance, top screen shows clues for whatever area you touch on the screen.
finally, a game for senior citizens
Post by: kurst_chao3030 on October 31, 2004, 05:34:22 PM
Post by: JGarcia050 on October 31, 2004, 06:02:48 PM
Post by: Edfishy on October 31, 2004, 06:57:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JGarcia050
...i don't get whats so great about having a DVD and mp3 player.
PS2 entusiasts inist the PS2's built-in DVD-player was what made it such a bargain. Now you tell people that you could have DVD's and MP3's in a portable console and it'll sell like mad. Like the PS2, whether or not the quality of the add-ins are terribly great is completely irrelevant.
Sad, but true.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 31, 2004, 08:48:30 PM
As for people who say that having 2d games on a system is bad, they're a waste of precious organic matter. 2D is a medium, not a limitation. Thank you, Sony, for brainwashing the masses, your check is in the mail (please evacuate the neighboring buildings before opening it).
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 01, 2004, 05:05:38 AM
Very few 3D games actually captures my creative youthful spirit the same way that you can with Sprite based games. I have bought handhelds because they are the last becon for this style of play, and I will sorely miss it if goes away because stupid companies believe it is a limitation of gaming, not a medium of it.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 01, 2004, 06:02:41 AM
Sony's Losses: Yeah, it looks like they're losing a lot of money on this. I still don't believe it 100%, but enough reputable sources have reported it that I believe it is probably true - plus it would be suicide for Sony to list such a great price only to raise it by $100 again. Personally, I think they could have priced it at $250 and both saved money and sold almost as many systems, but at this price I believe the PSP is a guaranteed hit, unless Sony has severely screwed up in some other respect.
Edit: added delightful comment about Sony committing "suicide".
Post by: Ian Sane on November 01, 2004, 07:57:45 AM
Now I can understand how Sony is able to trick mainstream gamers into only accepting 3D. I mean the general public is a bunch of dolts. Just look a pop culture in general to see that. However they shouldn't be able to fool third parties so much. Sony limits creativity and trains their fans to be very close-minded. Thus any developer that exclusively supports them is an idiot that isn't thinking of the future.
So if you're suggesting Nintendo should focus on 3D games, don't. Don't let Sony's corporate attitude win. We need someone to take the risk and show that 2D is not a limitation and Nintendo is the best developer to do that. As much as I want them to succeed it's only in marketing and third party relations I want them to change. I don't want them to change the types of games they make. I can deal with Nintendo dying despite having the best game lineup ever and having decent marketing. I can't deal with them succeeding by turning into Sony.
Post by: kurst_chao3030 on November 01, 2004, 12:19:49 PM
Post by: Zach on November 01, 2004, 04:02:31 PM
Post by: kennyb27 on November 01, 2004, 04:26:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kurst_chao3030
ok, enough 3d, 2d descussion, lets talk about sony's marketing plan compared to nintendos.
Nah, let's talk about green eggs and ham. Bring up a point about marketing if you want to talk about it.
And back on topic. I don't know if you can entirely blame Sony for the mass move to make everything 3D (however, I do feel alot of the blame falls on their shoulders). Nintendo was the first to truly invent the 3D genre with SM64, thereby starting what may be a trend as developers attempt to live up to SM64. Which only allows me even more respect for Nintendo in their continuing efforts to keep 2D in the picture.
Post by: kurst_chao3030 on November 01, 2004, 05:55:45 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2004, 07:40:42 PM
Quote
Even a normally competent dev like Sonic Team can't make a decent 3D game
Well Sonic should have never been translated to 3D, or at least not the way it was. It was a 2D concept, and without considerable thought, it just won't work in 3D.
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 01, 2004, 10:04:24 PM
http://ds.ign.com/articles/562/562614p1.html?fromint=1
Post by: Nile Boogie on November 02, 2004, 01:15:37 AM
About 15years ago there was this interactive Tv show, Captain something, where you would use you toy spaceship and fight the bad guys on Tv. If the bad guys shot your toy the it(yout toy would make a noise or shake). What if Nin could make the Ds compatible with everything that they have on Tv(kirby, Fzero ect). I have not the slightest how to do it but its the idea that sparks inovation and Nin needs inovation now more than ever I belive.
Ok bed time...
Post by: DrZoidberg on November 02, 2004, 04:45:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kurst_chao3030
well, kenny, thats the kind of guy i am. now go die (hence the name [if your a retard]).
Welcome to the end of your account.
Post by: SOAD is the best on November 02, 2004, 12:40:12 PM
Post by: Edfishy on November 02, 2004, 03:17:08 PM
Post by: kurst_chao3031 on November 02, 2004, 04:08:42 PM
Anyway: Is there anyway there could be video streaming on the ds or psp? just asking
Post by: MysticGohan24 on November 02, 2004, 05:10:59 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 02, 2004, 08:00:51 PM
Post by: Ages on November 02, 2004, 08:03:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EdfishyQuote
Originally posted by: JGarcia050
...i don't get whats so great about having a DVD and mp3 player.
PS2 entusiasts inist the PS2's built-in DVD-player was what made it such a bargain. Now you tell people that you could have DVD's and MP3's in a portable console and it'll sell like mad. Like the PS2, whether or not the quality of the add-ins are terribly great is completely irrelevant.
Sad, but true.
It is very true actually. Back when the PS2 came out, DVD players were about $300 so in essence, PS2, the game system was free for consumers. At the time it was a good bargin.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 02, 2004, 09:31:56 PM
My panasonic was only about $100...
Post by: Lost101 on November 03, 2004, 03:22:35 PM
Post by: kurst_chao3031 on November 03, 2004, 03:33:17 PM
Post by: DrZoidberg on November 03, 2004, 03:54:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kurst_chao3031
ZOIDBURG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what the heck is your problem!?!?!?!? why did you ban me!!!!!!!!!!! i wasn't being mean, it was a friggen joke, have u ever seen south park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1) I don't have to explain my actions
2) Because you insulted someone
3) Because you make posts like this
4) Welcome to IP ban funtime.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 03, 2004, 03:58:55 PM
(lol MSN is wtf)
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 07, 2004, 04:03:13 PM
Quote
Im going with the PSP, i think the DS is playing off the novelty factor too much and frankly im too stupid too look at two screen s at once.
Lolz, at least they come by it honestly.
Edit: That's from another forum, by the way. I found it and thought it mighty funny.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 08, 2004, 05:18:01 AM
At this point, I think Nintendo needs to do these things:
1. Keep 3rd party support as strong as possible. Games will probably be the main deciding factor in the winning system.
2. Market, market, market. DS better meet PSP face-to-face in advertising.
3. Start building a supply of "mature" games. I'm all for Animal Crossing, Super Princess Peach, Kirby and Yoshi's Touch n' Go, but honestly, this is exactly the type of stuff Nintendo haters expect from the company, and since DS is supposed to be aimed at an older market, that's not good. Work out contracts with other developers to create exclusive mature content if necessary.
4. Produce games that take full advantage of the DS' special features.
5. Possibly a price drop. Honestly, I don't know if this will help much at this point, since Sony is clearly willing to lose money to remain competitive, but there's no denying that the DS' price advantage is not big enough to impress anyone right now.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 08, 2004, 05:48:29 AM
Post by: Darc Requiem on November 08, 2004, 03:42:53 PM
Darc Requiem
Post by: spider-rob on November 08, 2004, 05:42:50 PM
DS VS PSP- who will win, does it matter! BC there both gunna make great systems, sorry to say but gamecube is in last place for the consoles war! but they still have amazing games and its a winner in my books. but if the ds doesnt win, im sure there still gunna make great games eand th psp is a beautiful system, i love the wide sreen, and the graphics in my opinion look better than console games, i saw comparison on ign.com i think. BUT graphics are not everything and lets face it mario games could look like crap but there still the best games! so which one am i gunna get??????? both! well first ds and then when a price drop comes form psp ill gtet hat! (well actually if they annouce a kingdom hearts or if thier harvests moon game looks good) lol, but lets face it! as gamers were gunna have some great portable games bc both developers r gunna try to beat eachother! soo in the end the ds or the psp wont win! we will!
Post by: KDR_11k on November 08, 2004, 08:19:55 PM
Why does it matter who wins? Well, for one thing third-party support is directly tied to the sales numbers. Compare the number of games available for the PS2 and GC, you will find that the PS2 has many more games. If the PSP outsold the DS the PSP would get more games. But because the PSP doesn't require any major changes from home console versions we wouldn't see many more interesting games whereas the DS does things none of the home consoles do and allows for new game ideas. Basically, if the D winsd we'll see more innovation. Also, this is a symbolic fight: rehashes with better graphics vs. innovation with worse graphics.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 09, 2004, 07:04:02 AM
Personally, a video game industry without Nintendo would be a lot less appealing to me. Even a gaming industry with Nintendo as a third party is a bit less appealing to me, but it would be bearable.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on November 10, 2004, 10:58:27 AM
The mainstream love FPSers and the pc players too. PC FPS fans are as diehard as they come, borderlining on it bein a sickness lol, forming clans and practicing daily. How are they goin to pass up on trully portable fraggfests. All that is needed is a well made, highly polished and playable FPS for the DS to help break the mold (much like halo did with its release for xbox, halo was never groundbreakin IMO but it was just a trully well developed , responsive game)
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 10, 2004, 02:18:01 PM
and now that i've made a pointless post, I imagine that I'm next.
Post by: Mario on November 10, 2004, 06:05:41 PM
I'm also very interested in seeing how Metroid Prime Hunters takes off, i've heard people who've played it calling it Nintendos next "goldeneye". TEH WAR IS ABOUT TO BEGIN!11
Post by: Syl on November 11, 2004, 04:02:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
PSP vs DS could come down to GTA vs Pokemon. If PSP gets a GTA game, its GUARANTEED to be a huge success, 3D GTA on a portable has been a fantasy of many people for so long, PSP could make it a reality, Rockstar have also recently announced they have PSP projects in development. Nintendo should be very afraid of a possible GTA PSP. Of course if Microsoft are willing to help them out Halo on DS could counter that.
I'm also very interested in seeing how Metroid Prime Hunters takes off, i've heard people who've played it calling it Nintendos next "goldeneye". TEH WAR IS ABOUT TO BEGIN!11
if PSP gets GTA, then its not a good deal, why? GTA requires constant disk spinning and constant loading. AKA: less than 3 hours of battery life before its shot.
However, and this still holds true, Pokemon is the single best selling game series, EVER. Thats the type of jump start the DS will need. Lower the DS cost, get a pokemon on it, and it'll sell more than enough to get nintendo covered.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 11, 2004, 11:21:17 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 11, 2004, 11:44:36 AM
Really Car trips are the only time you won't be able to recharge...and even then an adapter will be made.
Perhaps the PSP isn't setup to fail. Perhaps we are all loyalists and are analysing everything as a big deal and it isn't.
Nintendo DS is still going to rule, but I think its because it actually is innovative. Developers will come to the system because they want to try something else. If their products succeed they will come back for more.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 11, 2004, 12:34:50 PM
Therefore taking away gametime in environments people most use handhelds... =P
Post by: Renny on November 11, 2004, 01:48:02 PM
Post by: Chongman on November 11, 2004, 02:55:35 PM
what about multiplayer, then?
One of the DS' major draws is it's multiplayer functions.
Will PSP be able to do the same with such a weak battery?
And how many people will religiously charge their handhelds? You watch a single movie and it's shot. You play on a single car ride and its shot. That's gotta suck.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 11, 2004, 06:15:07 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 11, 2004, 09:42:56 PM
People always say things like "I don't play that long, anyway". The thing is, you just don't notice how long you play it. Having no headroom is going to be a big annoyance. Play it for an hour a day regularly, you have maybe another hour left. Now imagine some irregularity joining you, let's say your train gets delayed or your friend wants to see that new movie you bought after work. Suddently you go over the time and the thing dies. Or those twelve hour plane trips that people often use their GBAs to go through. You may think you only play it an hour or two at max but you'll quickly realize it can become much more.
Or imagine forgetting the daily recharge...
BTW, it isn't healthy for Li-Ion batteries to be recharged that often, their maximum charge slowly deteriorates after the first 500-700 charges (any charge that leaves the battery with more than 15% charge is counted towards this maximum), sometimes even less (depending on the quality of the battery). If you leave the PSP in a corner after it was discharged, the battery falls apart even faster (Li-Ion batteries discharge slowly, once all charge is used up the maximum capacity suffers. Decay is also increased while over 70% charge). Buying replacements now is pointless since the things would have fallen apart before you need them.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 12, 2004, 04:11:53 AM
I am just saying I know I have never played my Gameboy Advance for more than 4 hours a day. Which means as long as a remember to recharge I am ok.
There is some questions about the battery charge with the PSP though. As the battery begins to die will load times take longer as the disk starts to spin slower? Or will the PSP tell you the charge is too low once the disks can't spin at optimal speed?
There is still alot of questions Sony isn't answering. My original post wasn't created to diss the DS. But to bring up the point to many battery power won't be an issue. Its also not like that information is going to be readily available to research in find before you buy a portable system.
Sony won't advertise its true battery power, and Nintendo isn't going to make ads comparing the systems, because Sony can turn around and do the same hurting Nintendo.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 12, 2004, 07:33:53 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on November 16, 2004, 03:42:50 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 16, 2004, 08:05:30 AM
Post by: coolchick555897 on November 16, 2004, 10:05:05 AM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 16, 2004, 12:20:26 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 16, 2004, 12:35:03 PM
I say it does in a more figurative sense...The reason I have a handheld is that the gameplay experiences are pretty much exclusive to it and it alone...The same will go with the DS...The PSP, however, cannot expand on what can already be done with the PS2, and is, therefore, completely pointless to me...
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2004, 01:12:48 PM
That's a perfectly good reason for not being interested in something but how do you explain the GBA? Doesn't it ultimately provide the same experience as the SNES? In fact it's so similar that it has a lot of the same titles. I'm not bashing the GBA because I like it but that is kind of a double standard. I guess you could use the arguement that the SNES isn't current but the PS2 is but still in terms of pure experience it's not really anything new.
I'm not interested in the PSP but that's because it's battery life is sh!t and I don't trust Sony to make a decent piece of hardware. And I also generally don't like the types of games that are popular on Playstation consoles. But saying it's all more of the same doesn't make any sense since the only DS launch title Nintendo is releasing is the very definition of "more of the same" and the GBA has one of the worst original-port ratios ever.
Post by: darklink514 on November 16, 2004, 03:52:23 PM
The issue that I believe should be at the forefront is definitely durability. In my opinion once you look past the graphics, design should really be the issue at the forefront. Aesthetically, I believe both companies did a very a good job at what they set out to accomplish. I've really heard both sides of the coin when it comes to design. Some like PSP, some like DS. Aesthetically, I think the PSP slightly edges the DS, but that's not my concern.
Look at the durability of both systems and compare. DS: Clamshell design equates to protection of the system's vitals, secure cartridge slots mean no loss of gameplay if dropped or shaken violently, when closed the thickness of the unit is increased making it a tougher system overall.
With the PSP, the whole system is exposed. The screen is bound to take heavy damage. I remember complaining about my GBA screen getting riddled with scratches, take that to another extreme with the PSP. The analog joystick has a huge risk of getting damaged and possibly malfunctioning if dropped, the lack of thickness and extreme lightweight could make for a fragile system, when dropped, the UMD might be damaged in the process.
I remember having CD players where if I'd drop it, the player would sometimes open and spit out my CD, causing irrepairable scratches.
Portables NEED to be durable because they are being taken everywhere you go, everywhere you need to play, whether it be an airport terminal, walking to the store, riding the bus...and in the past, Sony has a reputation of making their products rather fragile while Nintendo has a legacy of keeping consumers satisfied with durability. I've heard a lot of stories about GBAs and GBCs being left out in the rain, snow, put through the wash. You name it and they survived.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 16, 2004, 04:19:03 PM
Quote
That's a perfectly good reason for not being interested in something but how do you explain the GBA? Doesn't it ultimately provide the same experience as the SNES? In fact it's so similar that it has a lot of the same titles. I'm not bashing the GBA because I like it but that is kind of a double standard. I guess you could use the arguement that the SNES isn't current but the PS2 is but still in terms of pure experience it's not really anything new.
They don't make SNES games anymore. Most of the games that come out for the PSP are going to be outrageously similar to whatever the PS2 has, and those are still being made constantly.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on November 17, 2004, 10:47:10 AM
The PSP is threatening to blend the portable and home markets together, blurrin the line between the 2. I don't want 3D gaming to become the norm in handheld games. I don't want 2D gaming to die as it did during the PSone and N64 era. If the PSP were to succeed, I'm sure it'll be the first step in completely killing out oldschool gaming. No more oldschool shooters, no more 2d sidescrollers (metriods, castlevania, mario, kirby), and no more old school rpgs. All this becuase developers are going to assume (as they did during 3D gamings proper introduction with mario 64 ) that to keep up with the competition, they have to go 3D.
In my opinion, 3D graphics/gameplay should be perfected in the PC/console industry whereas 2D gaming should be perfected in the portable industry. I'd love to see games like Vuitiful Joe become the norm in handhelds.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 18, 2004, 07:01:49 AM
Post by: Mario on November 18, 2004, 02:03:34 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 18, 2004, 02:06:09 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 19, 2004, 07:41:15 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 19, 2004, 11:18:56 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2004, 12:31:29 PM
ABC News DS Review
Quote
I managed 7 1/2 hours of battery life on a single charge, playing graphics-intensive games, blasting the music through the stereo speakers and connecting online with another DS.
Post by: vudu on November 19, 2004, 12:54:27 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2004, 01:21:41 PM
but I could be wrong
Post by: KDR_11k on November 19, 2004, 07:15:33 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 20, 2004, 09:49:06 AM
PCMag.com
No need to worry about battery life on DS
Quote
Its lithium ion battery is rated for 6 to 10 hours of game play and takes 4 hours to charge; we found that the battery lasted eight and a half hours during informal rundown tests.
Post by: Renny on November 20, 2004, 10:17:01 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 20, 2004, 12:01:21 PM
teh gazmcoob wel r0ol teh pzp. i meen dz.
