Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on September 06, 2004, 10:01:43 AM
The small development team behind fan game Chrono Trigger: Resurrection has posted some very disappointing news: they have received a Cease and Desist letter from Square Enix demanding they stop making their game. It seems after years of looking the other way, Square Enix has changed its policy on independently-created games honoring their own.
Perhaps it was the quality of the project that triggered this unprecedented response so far into development. Chrono Trigger Resurrection sports professional quality artwork that has further improved since its last showing. Here are a few samples of what you will now never be able to play:
The Chrono Trigger Resurrection site also has a trailer showcasing a few scripted scenes:
Trailer (Normal Quality DivX - 24 MB)
Trailer (Low Quality DivX - 18 MB)
It truly is a shame the lawyers have interfered with something so promising. The team is not swayed, though, and is already planning something “new and fresh.” Our sympathies go out to everyone who worked so hard on this game, only to have to walk away:
Nathan Lazur - Project Director/Programmer
Luis Martins - Art Director / Concept / Texture / Lighting / Effect Artist
Moïse Breton - Main Character / Background Modeller / Texture / Effect Artist
David Ying - Main Character / Background Modeller / Texture Artist
Mathew Valente - Musician
Xavier Dang - Sound Designer
Michel Cadieux - Main Character Animator
Post by: CHEN on September 06, 2004, 11:11:42 AM
This sucks...
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 06, 2004, 11:23:33 AM
Post by: CHEN on September 06, 2004, 11:28:17 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 06, 2004, 11:29:16 AM
Post by: Saturn2888 on September 06, 2004, 11:58:37 AM
I'm going to sign a petition against S-E's choice to stop this. What if they hired these guys or something? I've been waiting for this game and it's more and better than I ever expected. See, what's w/ this American attitude of u can do anything you want? U just have the have the money (Howard Zinn, The People's History of the United States). And it seems that power is held by people who have money. Why would S-E do something like this? The industry needs competition and the only RPG competition for S-E is Namco, good luck there. Only ToS and ToP are really worth it (well I haven't played the other Tales of Games) and Skies is a cool game too, but it seems S-E is trying to pull a Microsoft here and have an RPG monopoly (rhyme intended).
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on September 06, 2004, 12:48:24 PM
Other large publishers do put out RPGs, they just don't push their products hard enough. Namco seems to see opportunity in RPGs, but isn't willing to spend the big bucks on TV ads. Nintendo's doing more RPG content lately (Golden Sun, Mario RPGs), that KotOR game is pretty popular, and let's not forget Atlus.
Post by: HyuugaYuurei on September 06, 2004, 12:56:33 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on September 06, 2004, 01:23:50 PM
Now, if the publisher/developer feels that it is a threat for some reason or another, and this tribute would cause some to not buy an official product (such as Zelda Collector's GC disc, or a remake of Chrono Trigger on the DS), that's another story.
No one disputes the fact that Square Enix has the right to shut down this product. We're just surprised the company would make use of their right to do so after knowing about this product for so long (and yes, Square/Square Enix was notified of this project by the creators early on).
Post by: Perfect Cell on September 06, 2004, 01:38:23 PM
This game wouldnt have actually been released... So it was a pointless but nice enterprise...
Post by: Saturn2888 on September 06, 2004, 02:38:46 PM
Post by: FyreWulff on September 06, 2004, 02:41:12 PM
If they want to showcase their engine, they should have made original characters for the demo of it. Otherwise, they a) did not get permission (you'd be suprised at how many fan projects get an okay from S-E when you just ask ) b) not only were they taking S-E's IP for their own use, they were also using art copyrighted to Akira Toriyama, and c) using S-E's music.
I feel no pity for them. They knew it was going to happen. Next time, ask for permission BEFORE you start.
Post by: Bloodworth on September 06, 2004, 03:13:46 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on September 06, 2004, 03:44:49 PM
Post by: vherub on September 06, 2004, 04:28:19 PM
But I would have thought SE could profit better by taking this project in with open arms, perhaps deciding to give it away as a packin/demo disk. It is a wonderful gift that has simply fallen into their lap and they instead decide to react like the jealous 5 year old who refuses to share his toy (not to stereotype any five year old out there on this board, but come on, your age group is not known for either its generosity or sound thinking).
SE had better be motivated by their own desire to revisit ChronoTrigger, but again, they certainly could have absorbed this work already being done in way everyone could have profited from.
I would be thrilled if a game I created/designed was leading to this much work over a decade later (which in video game years is a lifetime) and I really can think of no reason that could possibly justify this move.
Then again, the entirety of the story has not come out and perhaps- a very weak perhaps, but a perhaps nonetheless, SE did offer some royalty fee/co-development agreement that the Resurrection Team turned down.
I just guess we will have to wait a couple more lifetimes until the copyrights expire on these works and we can finally get some independent remakes.
Post by: valkan on September 06, 2004, 05:07:16 PM
" these guys are a bunch of Japanese business guys in suits thinking they're professionals. The last thing they need to hear is some fans halfway across the globe telling them how to run they're company. This is the only method, that I see, might actually work. But then again, this is S-E, and they might not give a crap about anything we say, so long as they keep getting our money.
Post by: JubJub on September 06, 2004, 05:41:14 PM
The dudes making this 3d remake are aware that they are breaching IP laws. It's just that now they've been officially told to stop instead of NOT STARTING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Regardless of whether it is a good remake or as bad as they come, being told to stop because of IP law breach should not be news to these people, it should be expected.
Hopefully they place their talent into an original game idea instead of riding off the back of the talent of another company.
And Valkan, its NOTHING like making a UT mod! UT has clear and straight-forward licensing laws for UT mods.
In response to the commentry about SE taking this on board, or employing the dudes, i find that rediculous. SE has already invested vast $ in creating 3D engines for their games, why would they bother investing in a (no doubt) inefficient, amatuer engine or artist? Oh, and don't forget the language barrier... i doubt the creators of this unlicensed remake speak Japanese.
Post by: Bloodworth on September 06, 2004, 06:22:13 PM
As for that crack about them being amatuers, you don't seem to have really looked at the project at all. These guys are all professionals that do this on the side. Sure, they're a small team with limited funds and a corporate project could be more refined, but that doesn't make them amatuers. Plus, I don't what you'd consider an amatuer artist anyways -- someone that isn't making money at it? That sounds like most artists to me.
Post by: valkan on September 06, 2004, 06:49:28 PM
Post by: TonyNinja on September 06, 2004, 06:54:49 PM
Funy that you people talk about a UT mod, there is a CT UT Mod, and they will probably get the axe too, just a matter of time.
It's on www.chrono-trigger.com.
Post by: joeamis on September 06, 2004, 06:54:52 PM
Although I would have loved to play the game/scenes. Another thing is I thought the people making this project were only doing like 6 scenes at most with only a handful of characters. And how many years have they been working on it? It looks so good because they put tons of effort and time into remaking only a few scenes. To think they could make an entire game, with an original story, as good as Chrono Trigger is pushing it. Not to mention the fact that obviously Square is going to make another Chrono game eventually. I doubt they want their franchise being milked, when they've made a point of not doing that with Chrono Trigger. Thus making each new release that much more exciting. Time to play Chrono Cross.
Post by: nickmitch on September 06, 2004, 07:39:11 PM
Post by: tssf on September 06, 2004, 08:06:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JubJub
I think it is perfectly acceptable for SE to ask for this project to be stopped.
The dudes making this 3d remake are aware that they are breaching IP laws. It's just that now they've been officially told to stop instead of NOT STARTING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Regardless of whether it is a good remake or as bad as they come, being told to stop because of IP law breach should not be news to these people, it should be expected.
Hopefully they place their talent into an original game idea instead of riding off the back of the talent of another company.
And Valkan, its NOTHING like making a UT mod! UT has clear and straight-forward licensing laws for UT mods.
In response to the commentry about SE taking this on board, or employing the dudes, i find that rediculous. SE has already invested vast $ in creating 3D engines for their games, why would they bother investing in a (no doubt) inefficient, amatuer engine or artist? Oh, and don't forget the language barrier... i doubt the creators of this unlicensed remake speak Japanese.
It's very easy to sit there and type in a message box in a forum and call us a bunch of "amateurs", with a "(no doubt) innefficient, amateur engine" . It's also very easy to sit on your high chair like that and claim you know everything there is to know about us, our project, and the hard work we put into it.
But it also makes you look like a jack-ass. Congratulations.
To think you know everything there is to know about the team (who, by the way, contain members who are actually in the game industry) and to think you know everything there is about the engines we created and used for this demo, is not only ignorant, it's laugable. But hey, you'll always have forums to visit to make yourself feel important.
To everyone else, thank you for all of your support. Yes, we knew this day could come, yes we were dreading it every single day in the development, but we went on. We were creating it as a tribute toward a game we all adored. And, despite what some people say, it was not our entry into the games industry. We always stated, "In the unlikely event that Square Enix hire us" so, we of course were not expecting to be hired, either.
We were hoping that since this was never intended to neither make money, nor be the entire game, that they would let us continue working on it. Regardless, we are disappointed that people will never get to see the hard work that we put into this.
Anyway, thank you all for your support over the past few months. Planet GameCube has especially been good to us. If anything comes up with this issue, or if anything new happens with other projects, we'll let you know definately.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 06, 2004, 08:11:21 PM
Post by: CHEN on September 07, 2004, 02:32:28 AM
Post by: Rob91883 on September 07, 2004, 03:11:14 AM
P. S.
Good luck on making me a Earthbound remake, or else I'll will be sad
Post by: Nephilim on September 07, 2004, 04:08:26 AM
Post by: DrZoidberg on September 07, 2004, 06:23:27 AM
Also, I like how JubJub is a clown who posts before engaging his / her brain.
Post by: past pixel on September 07, 2004, 07:11:47 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 07, 2004, 09:48:23 AM
Post by: Djunknown on September 07, 2004, 10:48:53 AM
But then again, this ain't the the Square(enix) of old. Sequels and spin-offs to Final Fantasy games? Done. Heavy investment in online/mobile models? Check. No 'Cube support despite decent sales of Crystal Chronicles? 'Gotcha. Dragon Warrior/Dragon Quest 8? MIA in the USA. Wait, we here on this side of the world still matter?
That's enough rambling. Next thing you know, they'll charge a considerable amount for the upcoming FF I&II port...
Thanks for all the hard work guys, pity it didn't work out. Do keep us posted when you have something else cooking.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on September 07, 2004, 06:48:16 PM
I wish you all the luck and hope to see more stuff in the near future.
Post by: joeamis on September 07, 2004, 08:16:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Djunknown
That's enough rambling. Next thing you know, they'll charge a considerable amount for the upcoming FF I&II port...
Nintendo is publishing the game.
Good luck in the future tssf, I have a feeling you guys will have success in the coming years. I just want to clarify something too, I misread JubJub's post about "not starting in the first place" meaning I was thinking he meant SE should have told them to stop immediately, not that tssf and company should have never started it. I also do not think you guys are inefficient or amateur at all. I do think its reasonable for SE to ask them to stop, and that you guys should put your talent into an original game (by the look of your work I think you could accomplish a AAA title atleast in regards to art style, texture work, and presentation, (I haven't heard the music yet, sorry). Anyways, keep up the great work, which rivals anything out there in some respects.
Post by: 3rdrocket on September 08, 2004, 09:27:16 PM
Tidus = Ellen Degeneres
Post by: Caillan on September 09, 2004, 10:44:01 PM
Quote
It's very easy to sit there and type in a message box in a forum and call us a bunch of "amateurs", with a "(no doubt) innefficient, amateur engine" . It's also very easy to sit on your high chair like that and claim you know everything there is to know about us, our project, and the hard work we put into it.
Yeah, I work on a small non-commercial game project, and I would like to emphasise the fact that what you guys have done is really awsome, and is definately something people from other small projects can look up to.
This is a horrible, horrible thing for Square-Enix to do.
Post by: KDR_11k on September 10, 2004, 10:53:24 AM
Post by: KirbySStar on September 11, 2004, 06:15:23 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 11, 2004, 12:28:10 PM
I find it incredibly hilarious that you're arguing about fair use by copying and pasting an entire article in our forums, which is strictly prohibited. Give a link to the guy's page for crying out loud. - Bloodworth
oops.
http://www.publaw.com/parody.html
Post by: UncleBob on September 11, 2004, 06:38:48 PM
If S/E had something like a remake of CT in 3D or sometime in the future decided to do it, they'd have all kinds of potential for legal battles because of the folks who started working on this CTR project.
Just like OoT2D (*drool*)... if Nintendo decided, down the road, a 2D version of OoT with LttP graphics would be a good project, well, don't you know, someone already started it...
That's another reason why companies have to crack down on fan-made games, even if they aren't for profit or such... Fan-made games limit potential ideas and storylines in future games because the various companies have to look out for those who will try to claim "Hey, that was my idea! You stole it! Give me free money!"....
Post by: KDR_11k on September 11, 2004, 10:05:20 PM
UncleBob: Well, the little ones couldn't try to sue since they never had a permission to make their adaption, anyway. Without permission (and that means explicit permission) making an adaption is a crime.
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 12, 2004, 01:44:56 PM
Well fine then, here's fair use straight from the US Government's mouth. (NOTE TO MODERATORS: Facts may not be copyrighted, and as a result, I am free to directly quote the link above.
)Quote
the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
it's non-profit, and educational in the sense that all the people involved with development are learning a great deal.
Quote
the nature of the copyrighted work
a tribute.
Quote
amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
10 scenes from the game. I would suspect them to be short scenes. None of the original artwork or code was used, meaning that story, characters, and dialog were used from the original. I would say that the amount would actually be pretty small, something akin to fanfictions.
Quote
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work
Given that this was not intended to be a full game, I can't see where it would do much other than to drum up some extra publicity for Chrono Trigger.
Post by: Bloodworth on September 12, 2004, 05:05:18 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 13, 2004, 12:18:15 AM
Post by: UncleBob on September 13, 2004, 02:24:59 AM
Quote
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work
What would the effect on the potential market value of this CTR project be on S/E if they were already planning on making a 3D remake of CT?
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on September 13, 2004, 04:37:26 AM
"Well fine then, here's fair use straight from the US Government's mouth. (NOTE TO MODERATORS: Facts may not be copyrighted, and as a result, I am free to directly quote the link above. )"
"NOTE TO GREY NINJA: Quoting is not against the rules, just extended quotes. Once you go over one continuous paragraph, I'm gonna start coming down on you. :-P"
Awww, it's like the family is finally back together. The mouthy rebellious son comes home and dad has to give him a verbal smacking to keep him in place. It's so beautiful it brings a tear to my eye.....
Post by: 3rdrocket on September 13, 2004, 09:14:57 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 13, 2004, 11:48:29 AM
Quote
Awww, it's like the family is finally back together. The mouthy rebellious son comes home and dad has to give him a verbal smacking to keep him in place. It's so beautiful it brings a tear to my eye.....
Shut it woman.
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Grey: The sole fact that they created 3d adaption of concepts is already copyright infringement. A game isn't one, big work but many small ones combined. The characters are works by themselves, every piece of art in a game is a work. The concepts are works. Making a derivative work of a copyrighted work, in this case a 3d model based on a concept by Akira Toryama, is enough to cross the line. You're using the most lenient way of interpeting the law, that wouldn't hold up in court, they'd argue that "tribute" means "copy" and that just learning from doing it isn't enough for "educational use" (since you invariably learn something from making an adaption, you get better at making adaptions). That they didn't just use excepts from the characters but the whole characters. Yes, arguing semantics is exactly what's done in court, but I'm sure the other attorney could find a whole lot of points to be used against you, as well.
Yes, I am not denying that some copyrighted material was used in CTR. But that's exactly my point. Fair use allows people to use copyrighted material in their own projects if it's not blatantly infringing. Fair use is a really grey area thing though, and I am saying that if it was contested in court, then CTR might very well win. They aren't doing this most likely because none of them want "copyright infringer" to go on their record. Which really really sucks. Square Enix probably knows this, and that's why they did it in the first place. And THAT is why I am currently boycotting them.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on September 13, 2004, 01:22:25 PM
I see where your coming from Grey, I'm too pissed at SE
for doing this so late into the projects existence. Sad isn't
it? Damn them, CT:R is the best thing I've seen in a recreation
of the original. It appears that anything better than what SE
can do, they automatically kill it by whatever means.
They seem to forget who buys their "stuff",
do they really want to discreminate people?
I think so, must be ignorance.
What's this....? Do I smell Acclaim?
Your Next SE if you don't stop the BS and deliver something friggin
decent and beyond!!!
Post by: MaleficentOgre on September 13, 2004, 07:00:01 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on September 13, 2004, 09:05:19 PM
Now only if they would die, I know it's near. Unless they change and start to pump out
quality products.
But what are the chances?
Post by: KDR_11k on September 13, 2004, 09:46:07 PM
3rdrocket: They could, but those minor projects don't mean anything to them. This one here is a major project that has proven its ability o reach a high level of quality and (unlike most fan games/mods) actually get finished. Since time spent playing CTR is time not spent playing new games CTR IS competing with SE's lineup (though one could argue that since CTR isn't a PS2 game the people who could have played it weren't SE's customers, anyway).
The late shutdown was because companies tolerate fan art to a certain degree (since telling the fans not to make fan art would just make them angry) and the less they C&D the better. Fan projects have a tendency to fall apart long before they finish anything playable so Square-Enix just assumed this one wouldn't reach completion, either. Then they saw that this team could actually pull it off and that CTR isn't going away without their intervention, so S-E sent a C&D letter.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 14, 2004, 08:09:02 AM
Post by: Tuxedo.Bond on September 14, 2004, 01:01:08 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 15, 2004, 12:43:18 AM
Post by: Magus_Forever on April 20, 2005, 06:38:28 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on April 20, 2005, 09:12:17 PM
Post by: Caillan on April 20, 2005, 09:41:49 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on April 20, 2005, 09:54:06 PM
Post by: X-Hunter on February 20, 2006, 04:08:42 PM
Chrono Trigger just happened to be one of those games where the 3-D Rendering took off: An amazing game with an excelling story, great amount of replay and practically a small cult following. I think, though, that the companies of some of these games (I'm thinking along the lines of Secret of Mana and Zelda: Link to the Past) should perhapse look into the market of re-rendering their games, with similar viewpoints and control, but entering them into the realm of Full 3D.
I applaud the group who began the creation of CT:R, and I hope they look into completing the idea through communications with S-E, or perhapse approaching other companies with ideas on other games that may be worth investing in to bring to 3-D. I also look forward to any new projects they've been working on.
Post by: mantidor on February 20, 2006, 04:16:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ms.Pikmin
I think Mario said it best with "WTF BUMPZILLA"
Indeed again, I was wondering why the hell the images were down until I looked at the post date...
Post by: IceCold on February 20, 2006, 05:52:05 PM
Lucky for you, Square is doing exactly that for the DS..
Post by: KDR_11k on February 20, 2006, 11:56:00 PM
Post by: Saturn2888 on November 24, 2006, 10:15:38 PM
Did they start another one like they said they would?
