Topic: Roundtable Discussion: Reactions to the May 17 Nintendo Direct

[bluelander]

When the NWR staff set out to create this feature, they had no idea just how far the discussion would take them.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/roundtable/34273

When NWR Site Director Neal Ronaghan asked staff to chime in on last week's Nintendo Direct, he never expected the frenzied back-and-forth that would follow. Nintendo fans are commonly believed to have very strong feelings about the company and its games and that passion definitely seemed to play out last Friday amongst the Nintendo World Report staff. Though the discussion started on topic, it quickly became inflamed with themes of negativity vs. optimism, objectivity, nostalgia, the N64, launch windows, the Nintendo Direct format, timing, new IPs, and finally Metroid.

The following account is the result of more than 100 e-mails flying back and forth over the course of a single day. Some sections have been re-arranged chronologically so readers can better understand the flow of discussion, and some non-relevant sections of discussion have not been included.

Continued in "On Topic: Favorite Announcements from the May 17 Nintendo Direct"

[TrueNerd]

The link to the second page (and beyond) is broken.

[Shaymin]

They haven't posted it yet...

[ejamer]

Good to see Carmine fighting the good (fanboy) fight. In many ways, he's right: Wii U will have many great games and will be a console worth owning. When you focus on the games that will be available during the full Wii U lifecycle, there is no doubt about that.


However... the console isn't there yet. In the present, in the right now, the many glaring holes and omissions in Wii U's software lineup outweigh any knowledge that good stuff is coming down the road. Why invest in an expensive new console when the software support obviously isn't in place yet? Having major publishers like EA openly reject the console doesn't help, and makes single console owners like myself think twice before opening their wallets at all.


Recent NPD results show that Wii outsold the Wii U last month, so this isn't an uncommon consumer response. Makes it hard to be too optimistic in the short term.

[Kairon]

Good to see Carmine fighting the good (fanboy) fight. In many ways, he's right: Wii U will have many great games and will be a console worth owning. When you focus on the games that will be available during the full Wii U lifecycle, there is no doubt about that.

However... the console isn't there yet. In the present, in the right now, the many glaring holes and omissions in Wii U's software lineup outweigh any knowledge that good stuff is coming down the road. Why invest in an expensive new console when the software support obviously isn't in place yet? Having major publishers like EA openly reject the console doesn't help, and makes single console owners like myself think twice before opening their wallets at all.

Recent NPD results show that Wii outsold the Wii U last month, so this isn't an uncommon consumer response. Makes it hard to be too optimistic in the short term.

Yeah, I completely agree. This will be an exciting generation to watch Nintendo handle the Wii U and the unique challenges facing them. And, as always with a Nintendo console, there's a marked difference in experience that consumers should be aware about: Nintendo hardware, Nintendo games, Nintendo customer service, Nintendo Network, Nintendo quality, Nintendo delays, Nintendo third-party support.

I'm really just railing against people being negative without being honest and specific about their criticisms, and also not referencing a historical context of what Nintendo and Nintendo fans have lived through before. ^_^

[ejamer]

Frankly, I'm more interested to watch how Sony and Microsoft transition to the next console generation. Will this be another 3DS vs Vita situation, where mainstream media sings praise for the future of Sony/Microsoft until finding out that a new console doesn't instantly get a full library of games upon release? Will the be major pricing/quality gaffs in their upcoming consoles, much like there were for the previous ones?


For me, Nintendo feels a much more "known quantity" on the whole.




PS - The Xenoblade sequel will almost certainly result in me buying a Wii U console. The big question is whether it's worth buying a cheap PS3 for HD gaming first - who knows how long the next Xeno game will take to finish.

[Tenser]

I'm feeling a lot of pain as a Wii-U owner. I bought the system at launch and have only turned it on for about 3 hours (enough to update it and set up my NN ID). I'm not a Mario or Smash Bros. fan either which hurts things more. Only bought one at launch because my son was going to ask Santa for one anyways.


Here's hoping for Xenoblade 2, Yarn Yoshi, or Dragon Quest X!

[TrueNerd]

They haven't posted it yet...

Well don't I feel silly.

[Shaymin]

And ironically, it's up now.

[EvilMario]

Nintendo 64 had an industry changing title in Super Mario 64, which alone puts it ahead of the Wii U's offerings. Wii U does have more games in its launch window (pathetic as it is) than the Nintendo 64, but the quality of original software for the Nintendo 64 was leaps and bounds ahead of what is on the Wii U. There was real innovation going on with the Nintendo 64, as developers were filled with new ideas moving from the mostly 2D sprite based games to fully 3D. The Wii U, which having some solid titles, doesn't do much differently than we've seen before in its games. The promises of many more titles within the launch window (which was original March 2013) is what stings for many as well.

[pokepal148]

Nintendo 64 had an industry changing title in Super Mario 64, which alone puts it ahead of the Wii U's offerings. Wii U does have more games in its launch window (pathetic as it is) than the Nintendo 64, but the quality of original software for the Nintendo 64 was leaps and bounds ahead of what is on the Wii U.

and the n64 had a glorified tech demo in pilotwings. Even mario 64 can't salvage a launch lineup of two games.

[TJ Spyke]

Nintendo 64 had an industry changing title in Super Mario 64, which alone puts it ahead of the Wii U's offerings. Wii U does have more games in its launch window (pathetic as it is) than the Nintendo 64, but the quality of original software for the Nintendo 64 was leaps and bounds ahead of what is on the Wii U. There was real innovation going on with the Nintendo 64, as developers were filled with new ideas moving from the mostly 2D sprite based games to fully 3D. The Wii U, which having some solid titles, doesn't do much differently than we've seen before in its games. The promises of many more titles within the launch window (which was original March 2013) is what stings for many as well.

I loved the N64, but its early offerings were weak. Yeah Mario 64 was great and Pilotwings 64 was good, but not much else for a LONG time. Looking at North America, these were the games out for N64 as of March 1997 (the same timeframe Wii U is at now):
Cruis'n USA
Killer Instinct Gold   
Mario Kart 64
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Pilotwings 64
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Super Mario 64
Wave Race 64
Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey
Blast Corps
NBA Hangtime
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter

The Wii U has been out 6 months, these are the N64 games out in North America after 6 months

[pokepal148]

Nintendo 64 had an industry changing title in Super Mario 64, which alone puts it ahead of the Wii U's offerings. Wii U does have more games in its launch window (pathetic as it is) than the Nintendo 64, but the quality of original software for the Nintendo 64 was leaps and bounds ahead of what is on the Wii U. There was real innovation going on with the Nintendo 64, as developers were filled with new ideas moving from the mostly 2D sprite based games to fully 3D. The Wii U, which having some solid titles, doesn't do much differently than we've seen before in its games. The promises of many more titles within the launch window (which was original March 2013) is what stings for many as well.

I loved the N64, but its early offerings were weak. Yeah Mario 64 was great and Pilotwings 64 was good, but not much else for a LONG time. Looking at North America, these were the games out for N64 as of March 1997 (the same timeframe Wii U is at now):
Cruis'n USA
Killer Instinct Gold   
Mario Kart 64
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Pilotwings 64
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Super Mario 64
Wave Race 64
Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey
Blast Corps
NBA Hangtime
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter

The Wii U has been out 6 months, these are the N64 games out in North America after 6 months

i think the Wii U came out with more games then that

[TJ Spyke]

Yep. N64 had 12 games for the entire first 6 months, Wii U had 29 games (not counting eShop) on launch day.

[slim98]

did anyone listen???they said this direct was just for a update.the direct before e3 will show the new games.

[ShyGuy]

Good heavens, nice to see the NWR staff are still a bunch of Negative Nancies. I remember them whining about the lack of games during the Gamecube era.

FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT CARMINE

[Leo13]

Speaking of New IPs, last night I was playing a new IP that came out on the Wii..Xenoblade. Holy crap, 11 hours in and I'm more immersed in this game than I've been in any game since Jr. High (I'm now 28).
The only problem is that Nintendo didn't print enough copies of this game so I had to rent it from GameFly. I emailed Nintendo and asked if they were going to release this on the Wii U eShop since it's so difficult to buy for the Wii and they told me that they're considering it and they would send my email requesting it to the appropriate people. In other words,


EVERYONE NEEDS TO EMAIL NINTENDO AND REQUEST THIS OR POST THE REQUEST TO MiiVERSE!!!


Wow, I'd love to do off-TV play with this game while my wife watches the Voice. I'd also love to conquer this game before the sequel comes out!

[Ian Sane]

If you look at the N64 list, though, of those 12 games, 6 of them are first party while the Wii U has only 2, and frankly that N64 list is pretty solid.  Some of those games are not as good as others but there isn't any outright garbage in that list.  And the fact the Super Mario 64 is such a huge deal puts the N64 way ahead.  The Wii U's lineup thus far comes across as unessential while that N64 lineup was groundbreaking at the time and was a huge step up from the previous generation.  Make fun of Turok now but back then you did NOT encounter games like that at all on consoles.  And while we're giving Mario 64 proper credit I think we're shortchanging Wave Race and Blast Corps, which were both incredibly original games at the time.  And let's not forget that Mario Kart 64 was the killer app for four player support that did not require a multitap.  The N64 after six months had a small selection of games but it was offering a new videogame experience while the Wii U is offering the same bullshit we've been playing for years.  It was just dumb marketing speak at the time but when comparing the N64 to the Wii U "quality vs. quantity" really does apply.

[pokepal148]

And the fact the Super Mario 64 is such a huge deal puts the N64 way ahead.

as revolutionary as Mario 64 is it is only one game. it cannot make up for a gap of 18 games.

The Wii U's lineup thus far comes across as unessential while that N64 lineup was groundbreaking at the time and was a huge step up from the previous generation.

we will likely never see anything as groundbreaking as the N64 again. virtual reality might do it for us but i'm not betting on it(and the tech is years off).

[Ian Sane]

And the fact the Super Mario 64 is such a huge deal puts the N64 way ahead.

as revolutionary as Mario 64 is it is only one game. it cannot make up for a gap of 18 games.

Aren't we talking about the bottom 18 games, though?  You know, worthless bullshit like Rise of the Guardians, Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune?  I would compare the 12 N64 games that existed at that point to the top 12 existing Wii U games.  Not all games are equal so sheer numbers is not the end-all-be-all.  The Wii always had tons of games on the shelf, the problem was that most of them were utter garbage.  On a first party level though the first six months of the N64 kicks the Wii U's ass in both quality and sheer numbers.

I think when buying a new console the feeling of a new experience is really important.  Super Mario 64 gave the player the feeling that the N64 purchase was worth it just to experience that game because no other platform offered that type of gameplay at the time.  The Wii U does not have that.

[TJ Spyke]

If you look at the N64 list, though, of those 12 games, 6 of them are first party while the Wii U has only 2, and frankly that N64 list is pretty solid.

For the N64, you seem to count any game Nintendo published as first party even if they don't own the IP (like Crui'sn USA). Under that criteria, the Wii U has had 4 first party games (they also published Sing Party and Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge.

And the Wii U has had large gaps, but they still have had a ton of quality games so far.


Ian, none of those 3 games you used were launch games. So they wouldn't be included. They may largely be ports, but the number of high quality Wii U games outweighs the TOTAL number of games N64 had at this point. There are easily more than 12 good to great Wii U games already.

[pokepal148]

And the fact the Super Mario 64 is such a huge deal puts the N64 way ahead.

as revolutionary as Mario 64 is it is only one game. it cannot make up for a gap of 18 games.

I think when buying a new console the feeling of a new experience is really important.  Super Mario 64 gave the player the feeling that the N64 purchase was worth it just to experience that game because no other platform offered that type of gameplay at the time.  The Wii U does not have that.

again NOTHING can match what that game did and how much influence it had. that said Nintendo Land does do that sort of thing (along with zombiu)

Tj, we are looking at launch window which adds Lego City Undercover

[TJ Spyke]

Adding in launch windows bumps up the total number of Wii U games to 44 (29 at launch + 15 more by March 31), and indeed does include the excellent LEGO City Undercover.

[ShyGuy]

Wii U had four games come out this week:

Resident Evil: Revelations
Fast and Furious: Showdown
Sniper Elite V2
Lego Batman 2

[Ian Sane]

If you look at the N64 list, though, of those 12 games, 6 of them are first party while the Wii U has only 2, and frankly that N64 list is pretty solid.

For the N64, you seem to count any game Nintendo published as first party even if they don't own the IP (like Crui'sn USA). Under that criteria, the Wii U has had 4 first party games (they also published Sing Party and Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge.

I did no such thing.  I said six of that list so that would be:

Killer Instinct Gold   
Mario Kart 64
Pilotwings 64
Super Mario 64
Wave Race 64
Blast Corps

Those are all Nintendo games unless you don't count Rare.  Then it would only be four but who didn't consider Rare games to "count" as Nintendo games back then?  Nintendo had worldwide IP rights to those titles.

The N64's lack of games was a very major problem and I'm not going to defend that (particularly since I didn't defend it back then) but Nintendo themselves was on such a roll as a game developer at that point that I would consider it a losing battle to compare it to any subsequent Nintendo system, and if the NES and SNES didn't have such strong third party support they would probably compare poorly to it.  I think it would be better for the Wii U to be compared to the Gamecube or Wii.  Or the DS, which despite it's eventual success had undoubtedly the shittiest first six months of any Nintendo system.  Nintendo launched it with a damn PORT as its only first party title.  The Wii U runs laps around that.