Author Topic: The Third Pillar  (Read 3500 times)

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Offline jasonditz

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The Third Pillar
« on: March 18, 2006, 12:09:41 PM »
I've been playing video games since I was 3. Ever since my parents brought home an Atari 2600 with Combat and Circus Atari, video games have eaten up the lion's share of my leisure time. Mostly, it's been a very orderly progression from one system to the next for me: Atari 2600, NES, Sega Genesis, Sega CD, Sega Saturn, N64, Dreamcast, Gamecube, etc.

The portables never particularly interested me. Oh sure, I've owned a few, usually at the tail end of their lifespans, or as second hand retreads years down the road. They usually struck me as, and usually were, just trimmed down portable versions of consoles. It's all well and good if you're commuting long distances, but frankly, that's just not me. I work at home, I don't leave the house unless it's for some important reason, and rarely is such a trip going to leave me with a lot of time to kill. If I want to play console games, I play console games. On a console, on a TV... there was just never any need to settle for second best in the name of portability.

Then something funny happened. I got sick of my Gamecube and its comparative lack of new titles that were really my kind of games. So I did what I usually do when that happens, I got another system... a PS2. Inferior graphics, but lots of games I hadn't played, and lots of them were in discount bins. It probably would've been good enough to get me through to the next generation... but it didn't have to be.

The DS caught my eye. I got one shortly after launch as a Christmas present, but it stayed mostly unplayed on my shelf. Portable... it played GBA games on a better screen, sure, but if I really wanted to do that, I'd do that with my Gameboy Player. Then Pac Pix came out.

Since then, my library of PS2 games stagnated, much as my Cube had... I bought one or two games for each over the course of the next year and really enjoyed them... but that was about it. The DS hadn't just replaced my GBA as my scarcely played handheld, it had actually replaced my PS2 as well.

Then I finally figured out why, and what Nintendo meant by "third pillar". The DS isn't just a portable console like the GBA, or the GBC, or the PSP... it's a unique system that offers unique play experiences that just can't be replicated on a console. To that end it probably owes more of its design to the Virtual Boy.

There's probably still a market for portable consoles... I can't say for sure, being as I was never too interested in them in the first place. That people are buying the PSP inspite of its vapid collection of PS2 knockoffs hints at that though. That the GBA still sells comparatively well despite being positively ancient hints at it as well.

So maybe there's still a reason for Nintendo to make another Gameboy. I know most people see the DS as the next Gameboy, but if Nintendo's really determined to have a handheld that attempts to replicate the experience of playing a console, they can probably do a much better job.

The DS just isn't as good as the PSP at being a portable imitation of a console experience. The touch screen doesn't do a great job of replicating an analog stick... the second screen feels oddly out of place, and usually winds up getting barely used in console knock-offs. Play Madden on a PSP... it plays like a poor imitation of the PS2 version.

If this market still exists, it's silly for Nintendo to cede it to Sony. The GB line has taken on powerful competitors before and always emerged victorious. Maybe the timing just isn't right. Maybe they're just trying to space their releases out so the three pillars can coexist. But I'd be surprised if Nintendo isn't at least investigating the possibility of releasing another "portable console" style handheld in the next couple of years.


Offline IceCold

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2006, 01:08:15 PM »
Quote

Mostly, it's been a very orderly progression from one system to the next for me: Atari 2600, NES, Sega Genesis, Sega CD, Sega Saturn, N64, Dreamcast, Gamecube, etc.
No SNES?

I agree with you that portables should not be just imitations of current console games. That's why I want 2D games to remain on portables. There's still lots of ways to innovate with 2D, and I hope that they never get phased out.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2006, 04:56:37 PM »
well frankly SNES just wasnt veryinteresting, itr was mostly remakes or sequels to NEs game, Gensis was the only way to go for fresh new ideas. Also most of the good non Nintendo games were made for it also. I waited untill N64 came out before I caved in and got a used SNES for 40 dollars.



I knwo you were directing that to jasonditz but I skipped it also and figured I could offer some kind of explanation based on my onw experiences.  
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Offline Artimus

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RE: The Third Pillar
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2006, 05:14:34 PM »
SNES has the best library of any system.

Offline Khushrenada

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2006, 08:05:45 PM »
I hope you know what you're doing by saying the Genesis was better than the SNES, Animecyberrat. A lot of people, myself included, view the SNES as Nintendo's best console. And to say there was no fresh ideas, well, that's just crazy. Super Mario Kart, F-Zero, Kirby's Dream Course, EarthBound, Harvest Moon and Mario Paint are a few examples.

As far as I'm concerned, most of the sequels were better than NES orginals (except for the Mario games).

Super Metroid > Metroid.
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past > The Legend of Zelda.
Kirby SuperStar > Kirby's Adventure.

Anyways, I know you can point to examples as well. I realize Sonic the Hedgehog itself was quite new and orginal then. I'm just saying there was alot of originality on the SNES.

Hey, back on topic.
I feel the same way as jasonditz. Handhelds interested me abit but I never got into them. I was too busy buying games for my consoles. But when the DS came out, I was interested partly because it was the first 3D graphic capable handheld Nintendo had came out with. (Virtual Boy doesn't count.) But also, it was because it was so different from other handhelds before it. Still, some months passed and I'd see a game come out for it here or there. With E3 approaching, I thought I might subscribe to Nintendo Power to keep up with the latest regarding Nintendo's new console. (I've since found out, I can learn all the details as it happeens on the internet.)

The issue I bought was focusing on the future for the DS. I read about the games coming out was amazed. Reading the games list and seeing that Nintendo was coming out with a new Super Mario Bros. Really got me excited. So, I went on the internet to see what I could find about the DS and came upon IGN for the first time. I also discovered PlanetGameCube for the first time. I read every review for every game and was just amazed at what I read, even though a lot of games were getting so-so review and Nintendo was being blasted for its weak launch. After reading those reviews, I thought to myself how Nintendo was operating on a whole different level. I've thought of ideas for games before but reading what the DS could do and what had been made just showed me a whole new games could be made. Soon after, I went to an EB games and tried a DS on display. Frankly, just using the touch screen was amazing. Now, I had to have one. Since they were releasing a blue DS bundled with Mario soon, I waited for that. When it came out, I bought and the rest is history.

But I do just want to quickly mention a couple of my first impressions. First, I was amazed at the speakers of the system. Second, playing some of the minigames with the touchscreen again amazed me with its accuracy. Finally, having a picture split between two screens was also neat.

Nowadays, I've lost that inital awe. But every once in awhile, I'll play something that, for a moment, brings it back. It is an awesome third pillar.
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Offline TrueNerd

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2006, 08:32:42 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: animecyberrat
well frankly SNES was veryinteresting, itr was games that were perfections of NEs game, Gensis, while great in it's own right, bows down to the master that is SNES. Also most of the good non Nintendo games were made for it also. I waited untill N64 came out before I caved in and got a used SNES for 40 dollars.



I knwo you were directing that to jasonditz but I skipped it also and figured I could offer some kind of explanation based on my onw experiences.

Fixed! SNES is the best system ever, no debate necessary.

Offline Mario

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RE: The Third Pillar
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2006, 08:56:09 PM »
I think the un-gameboy thing about the DS was that it was a bit clunky and not too portable, but it looks like they're addressing this with the DS Lite so I don't see another handheld coming around for a while.

Oh and Genesis > SNES cause it had SonicI can count all the good SNES games on one hand, and they are all on GBA anyway

Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: The Third Pillar
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2006, 10:03:00 PM »
"Kirby SuperStar > Kirby's Adventure"

I'm going to have to say Kirby Superstar = Kirby's Adventure.
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Offline jasonditz

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RE: The Third Pillar
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2006, 04:54:00 AM »
Its not that I didn't find the SNES interesting, its that I had three side loading NESes and every last one of them was broken. I was a kid with a $5 a week allowance, I simply couldn't afford to keep replacing hardware every 18 months or so, so I decided to roll the dice that a non-Nintendo system would be more reliable instead of waiting for the SNES.

It was, by the way, my Genesis/CD is still in fine working order, albeit under a quarter inch of dust, 15 years after I bought it.

Offline UncleBob

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RE: The Third Pillar
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2006, 05:02:44 AM »
My NES is still working after all these years.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline jasonditz

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2006, 05:17:11 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
I think the un-gameboy thing about the DS was that it was a bit clunky and not too portable, but it looks like they're addressing this with the DS Lite so I don't see another handheld coming around for a while.

Oh and Genesis > SNES cause it had SonicI can count all the good SNES games on one hand, and they are all on GBA anyway


I always thought the un-gameboy thing about it was that it had a second screen and touch controlls. All the GB's have been subsets of consonles or souped up versions of a previous generation system... none of them ever added anything to the control system, apart from some weird cartridge-based things like the Boktai sensor or the Tilt sensor

Offline animecyberrat

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2006, 09:09:31 AM »
Ok kush, I not say Genesis is BETTER THAN SNES, I said back then I skippe dSNES because it wasnt as interesting. When they were out I found SNES boring, I had more fun with my Genesis. NOW I have a SNES and doo see that it had a lot of great games, but when I was a kid, it was different. Also I had to rely on my paretns to buy me systemns and Genesis was cheaper and we had NEs and since SNEs dint play NES games mom and dad said it was stupid ot get one.


Later on when I got my first job and had enough money I did get a SNES and agree its one of the best systems, I was replying to ice colds post because it was about BACK THEN. Not now. Does that clear things up. jeez some peopel are a-holes, not you bt some of the others who replied. Anywas yo have to read the context of my post not what was said.  
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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2006, 06:07:27 PM »
I get what you're saying Animecyberrat. It's just that in your first post you only said SNES was uninteresting and that Genesis had the freshest ideas. You made it sound like the SNES was wasteland of sequels. (Well, I'm exaggerating that.) Anyways, you cleared that up now. But it's because of that first post why I warned you and mentioned a few examples as well.

Finally:
Kirby Superstar is > than Kirby Adventure because the music, graphics and different styles of gameplay give it the edge.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:The Third Pillar
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2006, 06:21:22 PM »
I missed out on SNES but now that I have one I am seeing that it sure does ahve some great games I missed out on. I agree Kirby Super Star is one of my favorite SNES game and was actualy the game that came with my mini snes when I got it for christmas.




yeah I sometimes forget to organize my thoughts into clear sentences and its hard to get what I am saying.



Heres my list of SNES game I currently own if its any indicator of what I play.




Arcade Hits Atari Collection
Final Fight
Doom  
Pac Attack
Mario Is Missing
Mortal Kombat II
Mortal Kombat 3
Super Castlevania 4
Super Mario All Stars
Super Mario World
Super Mario RPG
Super Mario Kart
Super Star Wars
Super Return of the Jedi
Warios Woods
Chuck Rock
Tetris/Dr mario
Super Metroid
Super Ghouls N Ghosts
DKC
Mega Man X
Star Fox
Final Fantasy 3
Sim City
Zelda Link to the Past


And for comparison heres my Genesis list

6- Pack
Aaah! Real Monsters
Beyond Oasis
Bio Hazard Battle
Boogerman
Comix Zone
D & D Warriors of the Eternal Sun
Fatal Rewind
Garfield Caught In the Act
Maximum Carnage
Mega Turrican
Shinobi 3 Return of the Ninja Master
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic 2
Sonic 3
Streets of Rage 2
Streets of Rage 3
Sunset Riders
Super Street Fighter II
T2 Arcade Game
TMNT Tournament Fighters
Toe Jam and Earl 2 Panic on Funkotron
Turrican
Virtua Racing
Wolverines Adamantium Rage
World of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck
X-Men


I actualy play my Super more now than my Sega but its mostly cuz I am playing games I never had before when I usued to have just a Genesis. Some of those so called gems arent as good as people make them out to be though. but I wont be more specifica than that.

EDIT forgot a couple games.
 
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