Topic: Burnout 3 Swerves to Miss GameCube

[Syl]

im being optimistic here, and i mean heavily optimistic.
burnout 2 wasn't announced for Xbox right off, and they got the "devolopers cut" edition of the game, which basicily just had some very pretty extras... (mainly more crash mode courses!)
Ive heard that burnout Has sold well on gamecube (hell, i own burnout 2, awesome game) so, we might end up with a "Directors Cut" edition of the game.

but, thats being optimistic.
I want the game though, its looking amazingly pretty.. i just wish the cars were "lighter"  

[Bloodworth]

I agree with Syl.  There's still time for them to pull the rabbit out of the hat.  My guess is that Criterion won't let publishers farm out their games to port teams, and that's why we always get the Burnout games last.  Acclaim staunchly refuted any talk of Burnout 2 releasing to GC and Xbox, but after the holidays, that's exactly what happened.

[kovu_br]

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Originally posted by: RyanGassxx


Your right, in the past alot of the times the GC version of a multiplat game sold the least... But that was the past... Alot has happened in the recent months... ever since Gamecube hit $99 sales have been absolutly fantastic, and that goes for software sales as well... As of now gamecube is in 2nd place world wide OFFICIALY.... The last 2 high profile multiplat games, Sonic Heros, and SC2 sold the MOST on gamecube... I think now multiplat games will sell more on gamecube than other systems...

SC2 and SH are exceptions, and I think everybody expected them to sell well since most of the Sonic fanbase migrated to the Cube after Sonic Team started churning ports of past Sonics (Which started rumors that Sonic became exclusive to the Gamecube) and Link's presence in SC2 made a lot of Nintendo fanboys who wouldn't normally be interested in fighting games give it a try (Just look at the GameFAQs' board for SC2).

But look at SSX 3, XIII, Prince of Persia, Beyond Good & Evil, Need for Speed Underground, T.H.U.G., Metal Arms and Splinter Cell for examples of great games that deserved better sales but sold zilch on the Cube (Beyond Good & Evil is particulary puzzling, since it's exactly the kind of game that the Zelda crowd wants to play).

It's pretty clear that most of the Cube user base bought it to play Nintendo games, and those who have another console usually end up buying multiplataform games for their other consoles.

[mouse_clicker]

Someof those games didn't sell well *period* kovu, such as Metal Arms, which actually sold better on the Gamecube than the PS2 (and best on the XBox). Beyond Good and Evil also sold *very* poorly on all three platforms. And while Prince of Persia's sales weren't bad, persay, 500,000 units being nothing to scoff at, it should have sold at least that much on the PS2 alone, and well over a million total. as for Need for Speed, I highly doubt it sold bad at all on the Gamecube. It is true that 3rd party titles generally do worse on the Gamecube, and for very good reasons, but the titles you listed were very poor examples.  In any case, there's absolutely no reason for EA not to release Burnout 3 on the Gamecube. Firstly, Burnout sold very well on the Gamecube, and Burnout 2 sold as well as it could (Acclaim hardly shipped any titles- my EB still doesn't have any copies, and never will). Second, EA has very good relations with Nintendo. Third, Criterion has the game set up to be easily, quickly, and inexpensively ported to another console, and although you have a point that that doesn't eliminate the work altogether, it gives EA no excuse to ignore the Gamecube considering even Acclaim didn't for the previous 2 titles.

I'd like to agree with Bloodworth, that the game will be ported to the Gamecube eventually, I think there are entirely different circumstances now as opposed to the first game. This time it isn't both the XBox and Gamecube being ignored, it's just the Gamecube, and to me that suggests Burnout 3 will not appear on it at all. It's still possible, though.

[Ian Sane]

"But look at SSX 3, XIII, Prince of Persia, Beyond Good & Evil, Need for Speed Underground, T.H.U.G., Metal Arms and Splinter Cell for examples of great games that deserved better sales but sold zilch on the Cube (Beyond Good & Evil is particulary puzzling, since it's exactly the kind of game that the Zelda crowd wants to play).

It's pretty clear that most of the Cube user base bought it to play Nintendo games, and those who have another console usually end up buying multiplataform games for their other consoles."

Didn't most of the games you mentioned come out for the Cube at the very least a few weeks after the other versions were released?  Plus I found that with most of those games the Cube versions was incredibly scarce.  Stores would only get a few copies.  And in the case of THUG the Cube version didn't have all of the features of the PS2 version.  So basically you have SH and SC2 which were released either first for the Cube or at the very same time and they sold great.  And then you have Cube versions that come out later, are missing features, and are impossible to find in stores.  It seems pretty obvious to me why people are picking up the other versions.  If I had another console there's no way I would have bought the Cube version of POP because I couldn't FIND it anywhere.  The Xbox version came out sooner and was in every store I went into.  I still, even now, can't find BG&E for the Cube.

It comes down to this: if a third party f*cks us over, we f*ck them over.

[mouse_clicker]

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It comes down to this: if a third party f*cks us over, we f*ck them over.

You always say perfectly what I have trouble with, Ian. I find myself agreeing with you more than anyone else here.

[Ian Sane]

"I find myself agreeing with you more than anyone else here."

How ironic since whenever I get into a big debate with someone here 90% of the time it's you.

[mouse_clicker]

I guess that's changing because you generally say exactly what I'm trying to in instances like these.

[kovu_br]

Odd, I read in another site that Metal Arms sold better in the Box, with PS2 in second and Cube in third. But regardless, when I mentioned those games I didn't mean to say that they were all smashing hits on the other consoles while the Cube version gathered dust on shelves - All I wanted to show was that they sold the worst on the Cube when compared to the other versions.

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It is true that 3rd party titles generally do worse on the Gamecube, and for very good reasons, but the titles you listed were very poor examples.

They were the only examples of games released last year that came to mind, they may be poor choices but I felt they still illustrated my point (Looks like I was wrong, though). Sure you could say that the reason why the NGC version of SSX 3 sold worst was because it didn't have one trick featured on the other versions (Which in turn removed a lot of trick combinations from the game), but the casual gamer doesn't know this and nowdays they're one of the most important factors to move inventory in retail.

And you said it yourself - 3rd party titles generally do worse on the Gamecube - you just answered why won't EA release Burnout 3 for the Gamecube (At least not at the same time as the other versions) and that's why it doesn't surprise me that more and more multiplataform titles skip it altogether.

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Didn't most of the games you mentioned come out for the Cube at the very least a few weeks after the other versions were released?

Some did, but Sonic Heroes came first for the Cube, so we could argue that the only reason it sold better on it was because of that single factor (And I doubt that was the only reason). Plus, SSX 3, T.H.U.G., LotR:RotK and NfS:U (Most EA games, humm...) were simultaneous releases and performed poorly on the NGC when compared to the other consoles.

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Plus I found that with most of those games the Cube versions was incredibly scarce.

An example of sef-fullfilling prophecy - Nobody expects the Cube version to sell so nobody stocks it, which results in poor sales since the other versions are so readly available. I think that's the retailer's fault, not the publisher, but I could be wrong.

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It comes down to this: if a third party f*cks us over, we f*ck them over.

But then you'll fall in another s-f prophecy: We don't buy the games because the 3rd party doesn't put as much effort in the Cube as it does to the other consoles and the 3rd party either releases Cube versions late, or releases a half-assed port, or doesn't release the game at all because they don't sell. In the end the 3rd party complains that there's no money to be made in the Gamecube and we complain that the Gamecube has a poor 3rd party support and nobody wins.

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In any case, there's absolutely no reason for EA not to release Burnout 3 on the Gamecube. Firstly, Burnout sold very well on the Gamecube, and Burnout 2 sold as well as it could (Acclaim hardly shipped any titles- my EB still doesn't have any copies, and never will). Second, EA has very good relations with Nintendo. Third, Criterion has the game set up to be easily, quickly, and inexpensively ported to another console, and although you have a point that that doesn't eliminate the work altogether, it gives EA no excuse to ignore the Gamecube considering even Acclaim didn't for the previous 2 titles.

More and more EA games are skipping the Cube, like the incredible looking Fight Night, while pretty much all games it release don't sell very well on our purple cube (I wonder if Nintendo paid EA something to have Madden and Fifa on the Cube, because the versions released for it sell very poorly). Although I still think that was Criterion's decision, I can't really blame EA if it made the call.

[Ian Sane]

"But then you'll fall in another s-f prophecy: We don't buy the games because the 3rd party doesn't put as much effort in the Cube as it does to the other consoles and the 3rd party either releases Cube versions late, or releases a half-assed port, or doesn't release the game at all because they don't sell."

What are we to do?  Buy games that are inferior just so that a third party will support us?  They'll continue to do the same thing they're doing now.  True it's a self-fulfilling prophecy but it should be noted that it was the third parties who started this, not us.  Most of the third parties who have low sales for multiplatform games have ALWAYS given the Cube the short end of the stick including back at launch when there was no userbase and no sales data to base these decisions on.  For the most part they decided ahead of time that the Cube wouldn't be worth the effort and sure enough they've screwed themselves and us because of their idiotic pre-launch bias.

I figure the only thing we can do is what we're doing now: supporting the third parties that treat us fairly and not supporting those that don't.  Although it's not great it's really the best option.  For their next console Nintendo should ensure from the get-go that not only are third parties not releasing N5 versions later but don't create inferior ports.  I'm not sure how the quality of a port can be included in a licensing agreement but it should be.

Maybe Nintendo should bring back the requirements that all third party games have to be tested by Club Nintendo to ensure quality control.  They removed that policy to attract third parties but all it's done is allow third parties to release crappy ports and then complain when the sales suck.  Maybe they could alter the policy to only have required testing when porting from one platform to another.  Anything built for the N5 from the ground up is then excluded from the testing process.

[kovu_br]

I know I'm probably starting to look like the devil's advocate, but here we go...

Thing is, there is nothing we can do. The simple truth is that in this generation it's unlikely things will get much better for the Gamecube.

And I don't think it was the 3rd parties fault either. If I were to point my finger at anyone it would be at Nintendo itself, since not only did it do nothing to counter the pre-concieved notions everybody had about it thanks to a lackluster performance by the N64 but it also played it's own game with little concern about the competition - Releasing a purple cube that looks like a child's toy isn't the best way to show you're gonna start cattering to the older demographic, nor is releasing a controller that's great for some games and awful for others (Plus it had fewer buttons than the others, which leads us to a version of SSX 3 with fewer tricks), not to mention that it's media has less storage space than the competition's (So some games have less extras or more compressed sound), it also encourages developers to use a feature that no other console has (I'm talking about connectivity - If you're guaranteed to make a proffit with a game you'll probably think about exploring something like that, but if you're not you'll come up with some half-assed implementation of it at best) and it released some accessories but didn't support it (Like the modem). If you make a developer jump too many hoops to release a game for you they probably won't bother unless you have the biggest user base. And it's not only the half-assed ports that don't sell on the Cube, sadly, but very competent versions also fail to make a profit.

And if memory serves, the Cube had pretty much the same treatment as the X-Box regarding 3rd party support in the beginning (Give or take a few games), but as time went on a lot of developers started to jump ship. Also, very few "adult" games sold well on the Cube, even a game like Eternal Darkness that had Nintendo's support behind it sold poorly, so it's not surprising to see games like Driver 3 and The Suffering getting the axe.

Sure as a gamer I hate that we are now getting rushed ports, late releases or seeing most games get cancelled, but viewing it from the 3rd party studio's standpoint I can't say I blame them.

And now Square-Enix released a Final Fantasy game for the Gamecube - Easily one of the strogest brands in the world of gaming - but instead of making it as accessible as possible to all Cube users both Nintendo an S-E came up with something that can only be truly enjoyed by a very narrow user base and that looks nothing like the direction the series is taking on the PS2. The casual will dismiss it as kiddy (Which is bad for the Cube's image) and most of the hardcore won't be able to fully enjoy it, so another chance to move units was lost. It's one thing to release a game like Tenki for the X-Box, since it doesn't exactly scream "system seller" anyway, but losing the opportunity to enjoy most of the retail advantages that come with the name Final Fantasy is lunacy.

In the end the Gamecube became the "other" console for most people, those who also have a X-Box will probably choose to buy multiplataform games for it, since they'll likely look better and those who have a PS2 will probably buy it's version, since it usually has additional features like online play or other extras (Plus most games are designed for it). That's where Nintendo stands now, but how it got there is mostly it's own fault.

...Not that Nintendo is complaining, since it's still laughing all the way to the bank.