Author Topic: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live  (Read 16994 times)

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Offline Mario

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1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« on: July 16, 2004, 05:26:28 AM »

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2004, 07:29:15 AM »
I'd say a million is a large enough number to assume that next gen online gaming will be pretty popular.  How many Cube games have sold a million copies?  Like 2 or 3 maybe?  A potential market of only 1 million users isn't too hot if you're selling an online only title but it's a big enough number that throwing in online multiplayer into an otherwise offline game seems worthwhile.

Offline Flames_of_chaos

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2004, 08:10:41 AM »
Well  thats still only about 1/16th of the whole Xbox user base.  And  EA might help to add more subscribers but ehh  1 million isnt that much for a service.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2004, 10:23:02 AM »
That's 1 million people signed up for XBox Live, not playing it-  keep in mind, also, that a year's subscription was given away for free with an XBox for a while as part of a promotional deal. You can bet nowhere near 1 million people actually use XBox Live, at least not on a regular basis. And when that one year free subscription runs out, I'd warrant that "roster" drops considerably.  

Quote

How many Cube games have sold a million copies? Like 2 or 3 maybe?


Eh, more, I think- SSBM, Wind Waker, and both Resident Evils at least. There's probably a few others that are very close, like SA2:B. I'd be interested to know actual sales figures, though- does anyone know of a place that tracks worldwide sales for games?
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Offline AMac2002

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2004, 09:56:22 PM »
Quote

That's 1 million people signed up for XBox Live, not playing it- keep in mind, also, that a year's subscription was given away for free with an XBox for a while as part of a promotional deal. You can bet nowhere near 1 million people actually use XBox Live, at least not on a regular basis. And when that one year free subscription runs out, I'd warrant that "roster" drops considerably.


Still, one million software sold converning video games is nothing to scoff at. And that number continues to rise, and will jump a bit when Halo 2 comes out.

Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2004, 10:18:58 PM »
It's not even 1 million sold, because like I said a lot of "XBox Live users" got it for free, and when their subscription runs out I expect a huge drop in subscribers. It's respectable, I guess, but people are going to start using it as evidence against Nintendo, which is crap because the're pulling it completely out of context.
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Offline Deguello

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2004, 12:08:29 AM »
I read that as, "1 million game players are using Xbox Live! for free."

If they were actually using a profit-rendering fee system, I doubt they'd have 1/100th of those numbers.

And I still suspect their numbers, didn't, like 2 months ago MS say they had 750,000 users?  That's a pretty impressive jump if you ask me.
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Offline soulfate

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2004, 02:57:42 AM »
I have two XBL accounts, so you need to take that into consideration as well. All of the serious gamers I know also have at least two, some of them even three accounts. That could amount to 1mil accounts, but only 750K actual users. Could explain the different figures, but I don't think they could collaborate all that data to get those kind of stats anyway.
Although XBL has been out for almost 2 years (released in the US Nov 15, 2002), it's only been here in NZ for 5 months, and there's a few countries out there that have had it for even less time than that. That's another thing to think about because not everyone has caught on to it yet.

Quote

Originally posted by: Deguello
If they were actually using a profit-rendering fee system, I doubt they'd have 1/100th of those numbers.


You pay for your subscription when you buy your Live Kit ($100NZD), so they do get profit from this system, and many people, myself included, are happy to pay this fee because the service is a great one and well worth the money. I find it much more forgiving and user friendly than online PC gaming.


Offline Xenplan

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2004, 10:06:07 AM »
Longtime reader/lurker, but I can be of assistance in regards to sales data.

http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hokora/gcrank.html

The sources of the chart are of NPD and Famitsu, so I believe it's accurate.  You can also view sales data of the other consoles including  GBA near the bottom  

Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2004, 03:16:13 PM »
Thanks Xenplay. I was right that there are more platinum selling Gamecube games than 2 or 3. In America alone, there are 6: SSBM, Mario Kart, Super Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Luigi's Mansion, and Metroid Prime. Including Japanese sales there are 12: Mario Party 4, Mario Party 5, SA2:B, Star Fox Adventures, Animal Crossing, and Pokemon Colosseum. With the addition of European sales I'm sure a few borderline games have sold a million by now.  

Comparitively, according to that same chart, the XBox has 4 platinum selling games, 3 of them in America alone: Halo, Splinter Cell, Dead or Alive 3, and Project Gotham Racing. The PS2 has, by my count (I might have missed some) 31 platinum selling titles- a lot of them sold like crazy in Japan and then little more than 10,000 here.  
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Offline Deguello

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2004, 09:28:49 PM »
"You pay for your subscription when you buy your Live Kit ($100NZD), so they do get profit from this system, and many people, myself included, are happy to pay this fee because the service is a great one and well worth the money. I find it much more forgiving and user friendly than online PC gaming."

No No No, you don't understand.  MS has sunk about $2 billion in Live. From just one year of the alleged 1 million subscribers each hopefully paying $50 (roughly), they'd get $50 million of it back.  I guess that's another $1,950,000,000 to go before any actual profit.

That' not profit.  That's massive losses.  That's zero ROI.  And that's assuming there were one million to start with, each unique, all of them actually paying for Live and not getting it free with some deal.  
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Offline Syl

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2004, 10:49:59 PM »
I still think its a rather impressive statistic.  regardless of the losses.  
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Offline Syl

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2004, 10:51:37 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Xenplan
Longtime reader/lurker, but I can be of assistance in regards to sales data.

http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hokora/gcrank.html

The sources of the chart are of NPD and Famitsu, so I believe it's accurate.  You can also view sales data of the other consoles including  GBA near the bottom


Thats very strange, according to NPD windwaker sold over 3 million last year, in america alone.

Why are the numbers on this thing so much lower?
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Offline Mario

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2004, 01:19:50 AM »
3 million? Where the hell did you read that? That's ridiculous.

Offline soulfate

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2004, 03:46:07 AM »
Oh, right, I get ya Deguello. I thought you meant they were offering the service for free...

Offline Mumei

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2004, 04:02:03 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Syl
Quote

Originally posted by: Xenplan
Longtime reader/lurker, but I can be of assistance in regards to sales data.

http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hokora/gcrank.html

The sources of the chart are of NPD and Famitsu, so I believe it's accurate.  You can also view sales data of the other consoles including  GBA near the bottom


Thats very strange, according to NPD windwaker sold over 3 million last year, in america alone.

Why are the numbers on this thing so much lower?


Um... Because they are more accurate.  TWW broke about 3.3 or 3.4 million worldwide.  It sold absolutely terribly in comparison to OoT...


Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2004, 06:33:14 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
3 million? Where the hell did you read that? That's ridiculous.

Oh...

"It sold absolutely terribly in comparison to OoT..."

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Offline thecubedcanuck

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2004, 02:22:53 PM »
I have no beef at all with paying to play console games online.

As for MS and their 2 billion dollar investment. It may yet pay off in the end, it may not. Thus is the nature of business. He who takes no risks will never know the true meaning of success.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2004, 02:46:41 PM »
He who takes too many risks will be leaving out of a cardboard box. Throwing money away needlessly is not good business, despite what catchy little proverbs say. If it's true MS really did sink $2 billion into XBox Live (sounds a bit outrageous), then I don't see how anyone can just shrug it off as "the nature of business"- losing that much money is just plain stupidity. Microsoft didn't become as rich as they are today by throwing away billions of dollars. I understand what you're saying, cubed, and agree with it, but I don't think it quite applies in this situation.
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Offline thecubedcanuck

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2004, 02:57:03 PM »
"If it's true MS really did sink $2 billion into XBox Live"

not just live, the x-box project as a whole.

MS is starting to succeed with x-box IMO, and I honestly think they could have a huge next gen as a result. Gates, love him or hate him, is a brilliant man who knows how to succeed when others think he cant.
Will MS re-coup the 2 billion, only time will tell. For all we know it may be a 20 year timetable for a return on investment to them.
I for one would not bet against MS.  
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2004, 03:41:09 PM »
I for one will bet against MS- I don't think they'll make the $2 billion back, not close to it. I don't think they really care at this point, though. Obviously they'll work on making the next console more profitable (or profitable period), but I don't see MS making their investment back this generation.  
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Offline manunited4eva22

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2004, 03:55:16 PM »
Cubed, you of all people should know that the initial investment will probably never be recouped. If they are to make a profit, it will be a very modest one, and will be on that console alone, not on the xbox line.

Offline Deguello

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2004, 07:34:11 PM »
I can use a similar spin tactic and say that GBA-GC connectivity is wildly popular because I know for a fact more than 3 million games have been sold that use it.
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Offline thecubedcanuck

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2004, 10:34:17 AM »
"but I don't see MS making their investment back this generation. "

nor do I. I am guessing profitability may have a 20 year timetable in the video game market for them. I am guessing a number closer to 10 years would be correct.

Like it or not, online console play is catching on, even if people must pay for it. The trick to all out acceptance will be making it as simple as connecting the console to the TV.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2004, 11:05:07 AM »
if it were me id just put resturaunts and billboards in the game and advertisers could pay the online bill. Just think Network television is free.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2004, 11:26:07 AM »
"if it were me id just put resturaunts and billboards in the game and advertisers could pay the online bill. Just think Network television is free."

Well that's doable with some games but it would look pretty f*cking dumb in any sort of fantasy game.  Well I think I'll go save Wendyâ„¢ from that White Castleâ„¢ over there.  I'll get there faster if I ride my trusty Ford Mustangâ„¢.

Offline Uncle Rich AiAi

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2004, 06:33:57 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ThePerm
if it were me id just put resturaunts and billboards in the game and advertisers could pay the online bill. Just think Network television is free.

In a real-world realistic looking game like GTA or GT, it wouldn't look out of place.  But like Ian said, in a fantasy setting, it'll look so out of place.  And might perhaps ruin the gaming experience.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2004, 12:23:08 AM »
Banner ads in the server browser? If match making is all you offer, that should cover your expenses. Gamespy still exists, after all.

Offline Shift Key

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2004, 05:24:52 AM »
Quote

The online market is expanding!
So are people's waistlines but you don't see me cheering for that either am i rite?

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2004, 12:55:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ThePerm
if it were me id just put resturaunts and billboards in the game and advertisers could pay the online bill. Just think Network television is free.


Well yea that would help, they already do that for almost all the car racing games.  Including many online ones, but maybe you mean that the billboards would change periodically like in real life with new advertisers?  I honestly don't see why Mcdonalds doesn't jump in and have a real life Mcdonalds with most of the menu in say next generation games like GTA (6).  Although it would result in the character getting obese quickly.  

1 important fact is that it took AOL 3 times as long as it did Xbox Live to reach 1 million users...  Ofcourse people will argue but yea you only needed 56k for AOL...  BUT you need broadband for Xbox Live... (negates the 56k argument basically).  Then think of how many more computers there were in the world when AOL started compared to how many Xbox have been sold...  When you think of it that way, and it took AOL 3 times as long, now the statistics for XBL sound pretty good...
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2004, 10:08:25 PM »
In GTASA you can already get fat from eating too much fast food...

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Offline Draygaia

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2004, 07:39:48 AM »
In a fantasy setting you could get companies like Wizards of the Coast in there.  

If it looks a bit too modern then of course they're going to find some artist to fix that.  In the beginning of a game you can show White Castle logo or something and within the game the white castle and food will look more middle age.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2004, 09:12:19 AM »
Quote

1 important fact is that it took AOL 3 times as long as it did Xbox Live to reach 1 million users... Ofcourse people will argue but yea you only needed 56k for AOL... BUT you need broadband for Xbox Live... (negates the 56k argument basically). Then think of how many more computers there were in the world when AOL started compared to how many Xbox have been sold... When you think of it that way, and it took AOL 3 times as long, now the statistics for XBL sound pretty good...


No, no the statistics don't sound good- it sounds like you're going out of your way to compare two completely different events in a desperate attempt to justify this. What a horrible analogy.
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Offline Chongman

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2004, 03:49:43 PM »
Quote

1 important fact is that it took AOL 3 times as long as it did Xbox Live to reach 1 million users... Ofcourse people will argue but yea you only needed 56k for AOL... BUT you need broadband for Xbox Live... (


MS, you're right, but dont be nasty about it.

The difference here is that AOL pretty much introduced the whole online craze to America...whereas xbox live came at a time when EVERYONE is connected already and broadband connections are suddenly becoming more and more common. What I mean is AOL built from the ground up while Live! had a foundation already set in place, so such an argument is pretty inconsequential.
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Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2004, 10:43:12 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Quote

1 important fact is that it took AOL 3 times as long as it did Xbox Live to reach 1 million users... Ofcourse people will argue but yea you only needed 56k for AOL... BUT you need broadband for Xbox Live... (negates the 56k argument basically). Then think of how many more computers there were in the world when AOL started compared to how many Xbox have been sold... When you think of it that way, and it took AOL 3 times as long, now the statistics for XBL sound pretty good...


No, no the statistics don't sound good- it sounds like you're going out of your way to compare two completely different events in a desperate attempt to justify this. What a horrible analogy.


Actually what I said is exactly what Microsoft said in their press releases/conferences...  It's been posted on many websites.  LINK HERE

KDR I was saying 'Although it would result in the character getting obese quickly.' as a bad thing for Mcdonalds if they were in GTA(6), I know about the feature in GTASA, I was the first to post about that feature in the forums actually... back in may.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2004, 10:50:07 PM »
Quote

Actually what I said is exactly what Microsoft said in their press releases/conferences...  It's been posted on many websites.  LINK HERE


Sorry for lashing out at you then. That doesn't make it any better, though- in fact, it makes it worse. Why should MS feel the need to justify their own statistics? And why were they forced to do so with such a poor analogy?



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Offline AERO

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2004, 04:27:39 PM »
I think the people accussing the artical of spinning the truth, are more guilty of trying to spin this artical into something negative, themselves.

Offline ThePerm

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2004, 06:44:45 PM »
yeah id have it so that the ads change periodically, and certain adds cost mroe then others...as far as a fantasy setting...i think pizza hut or Burger King could fit in..hehehe. It is possible to adapt an add for soemthing into any sort of setting..remember when the flinstones movie came out...Rockdonalds...

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Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2004, 02:18:51 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Quote


Sorry for lashing out at you then. That doesn't make it any better, though- in fact, it makes it worse. Why should MS feel the need to justify their own statistics? And why were they forced to do so with such a poor analogy?


It's just showing how well their service is doing, which is really only evident by comparisons.  It's just like (charts, graphs, statistics), you can't paint a good picture without comparisons.  I find the analogy a perfect one.  If you're going to compare your service to another one, why not choose the closest things?  AOL & HBO (forgot to mention HBO before) for comparison, both of which are pay services that you get through wired connections.  (same as XBLive)
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Offline manunited4eva22

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2004, 02:31:40 PM »
It's still no good.  A better comparison would be to the first MMORPG, Blizzars battle.net service, or something similar.  Those were built around money in online gaming, not around the fledgling internet.

The fact that AOL did so good was because the competition around it was utterly pathetic in comparison.  Besides, comparing AOL to Xbox live! has one obvious thing I find funny.  Do you expect Xbox live to plummet in popularity?  Do you expect it to drag microsoft down into debt?  

When you make a comparison you set yourself up for it.

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2004, 02:40:17 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: manunited4eva22
It's still no good.  A better comparison would be to the first MMORPG, Blizzars battle.net service, or something similar.  Those were built around money in online gaming, not around the fledgling internet.

The fact that AOL did so good was because the competition around it was utterly pathetic in comparison.  Besides, comparing AOL to Xbox live! has one obvious thing I find funny.  Do you expect Xbox live to plummet in popularity?  Do you expect it to drag microsoft down into debt?  

When you make a comparison you set yourself up for it.


Why would a better comparison be Blizzards Bnet?  It's free...  The fact that you said AOL did so good, only makes XBL look even better...  

Who is to say that XBL will follow AOL's course and plummet, you can't predict the future.  AOL did not stay with the times, something MS probably won't fall into anyways, given that they virtually set the times with their operating systems on the other end of computers.  All 3 companies (HBO, AOL, XBL) provide very similar services in the same ways (through cable/phone lines, etc) that is why they make a good comparision.
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Offline manunited4eva22

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2004, 04:01:39 PM »
I was pointing out the irony of your comparison.  You compared AOL to Xbox Live, I just continued your comparison.
Either way, I don't really care.  Your comparison doesn't take into consideration a lot of important  facts, for instant market demand at time, consumer willingness to buy end, comparison between market recognition, etc. etc.  It's hard to honestly make a fair comparison between anything.  Statistics and comparisons mean nothing if they don't compare  honestly.

Edit:  Wow, are you kidding me?  They use the same basic fiber/copper paths so they are similar?  Lets compare desktop sales to servers now because they are all fabbed with the same basic machinery.  Lets compare Windows 2003 Database to Linspire because they are both printed on cds.  The way something is transported has nothing to do with the actual business model.  

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2004, 11:21:55 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: manunited4eva22

Edit:  Wow, are you kidding me?  They use the same basic fiber/copper paths so they are similar?  Lets compare desktop sales to servers now because they are all fabbed with the same basic machinery.  Lets compare Windows 2003 Database to Linspire because they are both printed on cds.  The way something is transported has nothing to do with the actual business model.


What planet are you from?  LOL  Please...  It's not just the way they're transported to you...  It's that, that is how the business works, they are all similar in how they provide the content to you and how you pay for that content (provided through fiber cables/wirelessly and you pay a monthly fee).  It's like comparing cable tv to satellite tv.  You comparing desktops to servers because they use the same machinery is the worst analogy I've heard in my life in regards to it pertaining to what I had said.  Keep trying to reverse the angle into something it's not because you have a personal hatred to MS.  And tell them that their comparisons are absolute BS.  Goto their website and email them.
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Offline manunited4eva22

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2004, 11:37:27 AM »
Wow.  Someone defending PR as truth. Just wow.  I guess you missed all the microsoft funded surveys they used to prop up questionable accounts of Linux being absurdly expensive.

I just have one to say about you defending ANY PR as fact.

haahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahahah breath hahahaahahahhaahahahahahahahahaahahah

I can argue the aol thing to xbox live the same way.  Well a server chip is basically the same as any other cpu, more cache and a modified ISA in the high end are the only real differences.  The point of my example was to show how ludicrous and simple minded comparing cable, telephone, and all other similar services fair game to compare.  Well, by your logic, all services that are sold as an extra fee that invole those three should be comparable.  Lets do this: since hbo is a pay service, compare it to a pornography network.  Both use the same basic idea (monthly fees, usually paid via credit card) and are received over an internet or data service.  This so far, as much as I can surmise is the same basic logic.

Is breaking 1 million users faster than x company in a different time and different field a fair example?  If you honestly think so, do us all a favor, take a college stats class.  It will bore you out of your mind, but you won't have the appearance of someone talking for the sake of talking.

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2004, 11:50:12 AM »
I did take a college stats class, and I enjoyed it.  You must not believe anything companies PR say then, not even Nintendo themself.  But you sure act like you do.  Don't be a hypocrite.  Let me ask you this, if you were Microsoft what would you have compared their Xbox Live user amount to?  I say yea that comparing to HBO and AOL isn't a perfect comparison but it's close enough, it's the best you could do for comparison.  Now why would Battlenet be good, when it's free?  Or why would the first MMORPG be good, when it's only 1 game, and a genre only a specific few like?  And if you're so sure that XBLive did not reach 1 million 3 times as fast as HBO, or AOL, prove it with some justifiable links.
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Offline manunited4eva22

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2004, 02:14:16 PM »
Your missing the point here, there is nothing worth really comparing xbox live to.  As far as I know, it is the only gaming service that required a ludicrous fee to survive.  (Oh yes, I am a fanboy, which is why I spend more time playing pc games than I play new gamecube games.  Unless you are calling me a pc gamer fanboy, in which case, I can only laugh)

A better example is one that is atleast in the same genre.  A game that has a similar cost, similar concept, that was successful is a fair comparison here.  Well if you want to compare xbox live fairly you need to find another company that can call losing money everywhere and calling it a big success.  

Actually I have one fair comparison, How many people are on ps2 online.  Last time I checked it was more than xbox.  Does it cost anything?  Up to developers.  Is it more fair than my origonal ones?  Yeah, if you can find something more fair, please enlighten us with it.

Do I hate microsoft?  Not particularly, but that doesn't mean I have to love them.  Nor do I think I should.  If you are somehow trying to imply that I felatio nintendo for liking some of their games, thats just stupid.  Am I mad Nintendo doesn't atleast try to do something with online?  Would I like to not have to spend 400 dollars to buy other consoles so I can atleast play games I enjoy?

I obviously constitute a fanboy.

Offline Myxtika1 Azn

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2004, 10:26:20 PM »
I just want to quickly say that I just signed up for a 2 month demo of Live!  The only reason was so that I can download and play the new Hurricane Pack for Ninja Gaiden.  I'll cancel Live! immediately after I get Hurricane Pack 2 next month when it comes out.

Even with a free account, I do not seem to want to play games online.  Maybe it's because of the games I have.  *meh*
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Offline Myxtika1 Azn

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2004, 10:31:13 PM »
**double post**
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Offline PaperMarioMan

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2004, 10:07:17 AM »
BLOL BANNED.
Banned

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2004, 09:32:29 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: manunited4eva22
Your missing the point here, there is nothing worth really comparing xbox live to.  As far as I know, it is the only gaming service that required a ludicrous fee to survive.  (Oh yes, I am a fanboy, which is why I spend more time playing pc games than I play new gamecube games.  Unless you are calling me a pc gamer fanboy, in which case, I can only laugh)



It's a company, and like all companies they need to say things in their PR to it known they have done something well.  So, it's natural for them to make a comparison.  They did the smart thing.  I don't see $70 a year (That includes a new game and a headset microphone) as a ludicrous fee at all.  It's a very fair fee.  The game is 20 bucks atleast right there, and the microphone is another 30.  So people are paying 20 bucks a year for the best online service.  That's less than 2 dollars a month.  MMMORPGS are what I constitute as ludicrous, charging 12 bucks a month.  A fanboy isn't necessarily someone who plays a certain system, it's more so someone who defends another system or company like it's the holy grail.  I don't recall calling you a fanboy either.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2004, 10:09:31 PM »
Well, the appropriateness of a price depends on the competition. If games were regularly sold for 20, a game for 40 would be overpriced. If online matchmaking is generally providedfor free, 20 a year is overpriced.

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2004, 02:04:35 PM »
But Xbox Live has alot more features, including a community that you can be in no matter what game you're using, instead of being restricted to just a single games players community.  To compare it to PS2 and say it's overpriced because it's $20 a year is ridiculous.  
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2004, 09:31:04 PM »
I'd probably compare it to Gamespy or The All-Seeing Eye. The Eye costs 15 a year or 30 one-off. That's still cheaper than XBox Live.

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2004, 03:20:19 PM »
Then it's still overpriced in your opinion isn't?  Only 5 dollars cheaper for a year?  And the quality doesn't match XBLive...  
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2004, 12:26:28 AM »
What's the starter pack for XBL cost?
Ande who needs those XBL features, anyway? Most people play only one or two games online, few need things like communities or buddy lists (me for example, I have no friend that plays games online). But I don't see a free XBL package that lacks all of those extra features. So you're paying for lots of stuff you don't want just because this is the only way to get the one thing you want.
So I stand by my original assertion that XBL costs money whereas competing services don't.

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2004, 04:25:48 PM »
It really sounds like you're just stating all the in your own personal case.  Most people do want buddy lists and a community, among all the other stuff.  I've made friends on most of the games I've played online, but unfortunately most of the games lacked buddylists and community aspects.  That's why I go back to playing Starcraft online more often because I can meet up with old friends again.  Most people want more features, no matter what the case is for a game, not lesser features.  It would be silly for Microsoft to go out of it's way to eliminate features that they made for the majority who enjoy them, just to cater to a small minority who don't want more features.  That would cost them more money...  So now you don't stand by your comment about The All Seeing Eye costing 5 dollars less a year?  Another thing is why would Sony suddenly change their stance on online gaming and be working hard to introduce the same features that XboxLive already has?  I guess that also points to the fact that the majority of online gamers do want more features.
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Offline Deguello

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2004, 11:58:20 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: joeamis
It would be silly for Microsoft to go out of it's way to eliminate features that they made for the majority who enjoy them, just to cater to a small minority who don't want more features.  That would cost them more money...  


But they already cater to a minority.  Broadband users with lots of money.  and instead of offering a no frills version of Live for free to BB users who don't have lots of money or SHOCK HORROR just don't want to pay for a game twice and possibly 56k users (the majority is here), they just say "pay up" to the BBers and just exclude the 56kers altogether.

Don't act like MS wants the most users on Live and is just listening to the majority.  If they wanted that, they would have tried to include the 56kers in any way possible.
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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2004, 12:45:24 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Deguello
Quote

Originally posted by: joeamis


But they already cater to a minority.  Broadband users with lots of money.  and instead of offering a no frills version of Live for free to BB users who don't have lots of money or SHOCK HORROR just don't want to pay for a game twice and possibly 56k users (the majority is here), they just say "pay up" to the BBers and just exclude the 56kers altogether.

Don't act like MS wants the most users on Live and is just listening to the majority.  If they wanted that, they would have tried to include the 56kers in any way possible.


The thing is, Xbox games have more content and detail, and having a game with more in it means you're going to need a fast connection for it to run smoothly.  Another thing is that 56k is on the way out.  Another thing is that you can have alot more online features with BB than you can with 56k, like more players on servers, voice chat, etc etc...  Microsoft didn't say we're creating substandard online for the majority of gamers, they said we're creating the best online games possible.  Haven't you noticed that the majority of PS2 games online now are only BB as well?  I don't act like MS is just listening to the majority, I simply stated that the majority of gamers want more features in games than those who want less features in games.  It's not about an availability thing, it's for the people who have it available...  they would want more features not less.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2004, 11:06:50 PM »
More detail != more bandwidth. The broadband thing only helps with one thing: Less efficient netcode. If enough bandwidth is there the netcode can be written sloppier without having to fear that anyone's going to notice. That way the quality of service is higher since MS's licensees will still deliver sub par code but at least the broadband can compensate for that. Also it makes people have more consistent pings (well, somewhat more consistent, connecting to overseas will still cause lots of lag) and you won't meet someone with a ping vastly higher or lower than your own. Kinda like making a city seem richer by locking away the poor.

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2004, 10:37:13 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
More detail != more bandwidth. The broadband thing only helps with one thing: Less efficient netcode. If enough bandwidth is there the netcode can be written sloppier without having to fear that anyone's going to notice. That way the quality of service is higher since MS's licensees will still deliver sub par code but at least the broadband can compensate for that. Also it makes people have more consistent pings (well, somewhat more consistent, connecting to overseas will still cause lots of lag) and you won't meet someone with a ping vastly higher or lower than your own. Kinda like making a city seem richer by locking away the poor.


lol please...  Ofcourse that's the case...  Broadband is only there to help with inefficient netcode...  Theres no reason that BB is used for anything else... lol......  It's the same situation on PS2 and PCs isn't it...  Hell if there was sufficient netcode 56k would be as fast as BB for anything!  okaaaaay And ofcourse yes MS is the one's who actively keep the "poor" out of their online service...  Oh wait a second just about every PS2 online game is BB now too, hmmm not to mention PC games either...
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Offline Deguello

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2004, 03:14:05 AM »
Thought I'd add some insight on the supposed "success" of Online for consoles, Live! in particular.

I'm gonna be generous and actually treat the Xbox figures as if they indicate 1 million unique users, and assume the 1.4-1.7 million Ps2 Modems and stuff are actually unique online users.

That amounts to about 3 million rounded UP.  Deg is feeling very generous today.

Would you say the Sega CD was a failure?  I say it's a failure.  It is generally perceived as being a failure.

The Sega CD sold 6-7 million units and tied to 25% of it's user base.

Until Sony or MS reach that level of FAILURE, I laugh at any "success" story of Online games on consoles.
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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2004, 05:31:21 PM »
I don't think comparing new consoles/ significant add ons is practical to comparing the use of online gamers.  Another thing is that you need extra things to play online, whereas with Sega CD you did not (other than a Genesis).  For argument purposes here:

Requirements:

Sega CD
1) Genesis

Xbox Online
1)Xbox
2)Broadband service
3)Xbox Live service

PS2 Online
1)PS2
2)Network Adapter
3)Broadband service (unless you go out and buy a Network Adapter to enjoy a handful of games online with your 56k)

Add in the fact that people buying a Sega CD were all in a hoot about owning a new console, that drives purchases alone.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2004, 08:37:55 PM »
Yes, but why was the SEGA CD considered a failure and XBLive a success? Why do many consider the GC a failure and the XBox a success? Double standards.

Offline Mario

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2004, 09:24:09 PM »
Mindshare > Marketshare

- I hear PS2 and Xbox can go online and GCN cant!
- NO WAY? SONY AND MICROSOFT DO WHAT NINTENDONT
- Lets all buy an Xbox so we can play offline!

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2004, 02:19:48 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Yes, but why was the SEGA CD considered a failure and XBLive a success? Why do many consider the GC a failure and the XBox a success? Double standards.


Why is Sega CD considered a failure?  Look at the games, there were barely any, and the majority were crap fmv titles.  Although the system itself sold, the games did not.  There are barely any Sega CD games worth owning let alone playing.  Not to mention that the Sega CD died very early in it's life cycle, with the 32x and Saturn following right after it (from it's own company) and ofcourse the PS1 right after those.  But, most important, it's not how many systems you sell, it's how many games you sell that make something a success or a failure in this business.

Xbox Live is considered a success because it's a major selling point for the system.  It's also tredding unchartered terroritory for consoles (bb only, universal online community, etc).  But perhaps the most significant sign is that tons of Xbox titles include some type of Live support, something the GC connectivity is considered not a success because of the lack of titles that incorporate it.  

I don't see everyone saying the Xbox is a success and the GC is a failure.  But if someone did, there are things that back that up a bit.  The GC is Nintendo's fourth main home console, and it will be lucky to equal the amount of sales of the N64, realistically that won't happen though.  So once again, it's part of a downward spiral in sales for Nintendo's home consoles.  While the Xbox is the first system ever (home or portable) for MS in the videogame business.  And it is neck and neck with the GC.  That's pretty good for a companies first system.  (you can argue all you want about how it's lost MS money, but they said that before they even released the system, that was there strategy for next gen dominance)  But the bigger & more significant thing, is as I stated for Sega CD, the amount of games.  Xbox gets great third party support while GC does not.  I don't see a double standard anywhere.
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Offline MaleficentOgre

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2004, 05:36:29 PM »
I've been starkly against playing games online (other than PSO which I've been drawn back into) but after playing at a friends house and seeing that its not all evil people swearing and rapping (just 99%) and its good to have friendly competition whenever I can't go to my one friends house to play games.  Being in a new area and not being a nice person, I don't have many friends here, so the computer AI is my only competition.  As soon as street fighter comes out on xbox I'll shell out the 50 bucks and get xbox live.  Its a sad day in my video game life.
As far as what is a success and what isn't.  Gamecube started out as a huge success and is still the third best selling system this generation behind ps2 and gba.  As far as finances go, nintendo is the most profitable video game company in the world.  Nintendo doesn't beleive in losing money plain and simple. THAT and that alone is the only reason gamecube isn't online.  They just don't have the funds for it, they'd be bankrupt in a few years.  The xbox is no where close to turning a profit, but microsoft doesn't care.  As long as people are buying computers (and they are) Microsoft is making money.  The xbox is an amazing piece of hardware and unless you are stark on hating everything non nintendo you would see that.  Developers have been quoted saying that it is the easiest of the three to develop for.  When it comes to success in software, nintendo is teh doom3d.  That's all there is too it.  Sure there are more nintendo games I want than there are for xbox coming this christmas, but that's only because I'm most comforatable with the cube.  I only buy multiplatform titles for gamecube.  It saddens me to see soo many games coming out on xbox and not gamecube, and not just mediocre titles or bargain basement crap.  Its the big name third party titles that xbox is getting and cube is not thats trubling me.  I'm a hardcore fighting game fan and xbox is the place to go.  Marvel vs Capcom 2, SVS Chaos, Guilty Gear 2, Street Fighter anniversary collection, Capcom Fighting Jam, All games I love and will be on xbox, and not come close to gamecube.  There's no doubt that xbox is getting the games that cube is not, and nintendo should do some serious ass kissing come revolution time or a lot of games will be sailing on over to xbox2.  I know nintendo can't give out the money, but they can lower development fees and be a lot more friendly to third parties.  They need to realize that they are not number one and developers no longer feel privoledged to develop for them, in fact some are now seeing it as almost a burdon.  That's not good for business.  I'm not going to pretend that I know everything about the industry, but I do know that I love nintendo and will be depressed if they don't do something to bring them out of their slump.  They have one more chance and only one more chance, If revolution goes the way of the gamecube you can call it all but over for nintendo in the console market.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2004, 09:27:53 PM »
Look at history. Every manufacturer had his prime within their first two systems, losing popularity after that. Saying Microsoft isn't doing too badly because this is their first gen is like saying "He isn't a bad atlethe, he's just 24". If the Xenon doesn't take first place I'll consider Microsoft's endeavour as failed.

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2004, 07:39:33 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Look at history. Every manufacturer had his prime within their first two systems, losing popularity after that. Saying Microsoft isn't doing too badly because this is their first gen is like saying "He isn't a bad atlethe, he's just 24". If the Xenon doesn't take first place I'll consider Microsoft's endeavour as failed.


and you would use that same logic for Master System to Genesis?  Snes outsold Genesis.  Yet was Genesis a failure?

A company doesn't need to "take first place" for their 2nd system to not equal failure.  If that was the case, the Cube would be Nintendo's 2nd Home Console Failure.  

Reiterate a point from last post: The XB (1st system) is neck and neck with the GC (4th home system + popular franchise games + previous fans of for 20 years).  By the end of this generation, the XB will have probably outsold the GC in overall hardware sales (especially when it's price is down to GC's), and their tie in ratio is higher, and they will have alot more games their last years than the GC (equaling an even higher tie in ratio).  And the 3rd party games sell on XB.  

In the end, the XB will have sold more games for 3rd parties than GC (equaling more 3rd party for them nex gen than for Ninty) and it will have amassed more consumers loyal to MS systems than the GC has this gen.  When it's all added up, it comes down to this: MS accomplished their goal from the start, which was to get their foot in the industry and make profits with XB 2.  I'll stop now because I'm beginning to sound like I like MS.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2004, 10:39:15 PM »
The Cube follows the decline curve. Atari had success with their first console, the 5200 and 7800 pretty much failed. Sega had moderate success with the SMS and their prime with the Genesis, after that every new system they released sold less than the previous. Nintendo had a nice success with the NES and their prime with the SNES, the N64 and the Cube sold less and less. Sony had a good success with the PS1, an even bigger success with the PS2 and analysts believe (well, widely agree) that the PS3 is going to be less popular than the PS2. Atari, Nintendo and Sega all followed this curve. Sure, there's no gurantee that the curve applies everywhere, but if I had to bet money, I'd bet against Sony, too. Microsoft will hit their prime next gen, if this curve is correct. Unfortunately, MS is planning to make a profit only with their third console.  Might be something about coolness coming and going (you just cannot be cool for that long, coolness is a status symbol and it no longer works as such when everybody has it). Perhaps we're going to see a newcomer take the market next gen, or the one after that.

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2004, 06:35:31 PM »
Didn't the Atari 2600 come before the 5200?  I own a 5200 and a 7800, but not a 2600, and I'm almost 100% positive 2600 came before.  It would make sense too 2600x2=5200, 2600x3=7800.  I thought the 2600 was their most successful console too.  And the SNES may be considered Nintendo's prime as far as the quality of the games, but the NES was their prime in terms of hardware and software sales.  

I haven't heard that analysts predict PS3 will be less popular than PS2, but even if that was the case the PS3 could sell half as many systems as PS2 and still easily come out #1 vs the other consoles.  

Another thing that should be brought up is really the key factor that's been ignored in this discussion.  Sure Atari, Nintendo, and Sega had declining sales significantly with their 3rd console they each released, BUT all three companies made horrible mistakes with their 3rd consoles.  Atari release the 7800 after the NES launched, with software that couldn't compete, among other mistakes they made.  Nintendo missed the mark with using cartridges and alienating 3rd parties with the N64.  And Sega alienated fans with the Sega CD and it's crap games, followed right after it came out by the 32x which did the same exact thing, followed right after by the Saturn which was rushed to market and had insufficient hardware to compete with N64 and PS1.  They all made huge mistakes, to have a huge hit in their console sales.  So going by historical precedence Sony would have to do the same...  

A little off topic here: I think that MS has a great chance of having the best launch next gen (I don't know how much it will help them in the long run).  They already have development kits in the hands of key developers (more games at launch, and longer development time for those games too= better results).  Also MS (according to industry insiders) is changing it's attitude about how to do business with XB2, they're going to not market it's technical prowess and instead market the games.  Another possible ace up their sleeve according to GI, is that Perfect Dark Zero will be a launch title and Halo 3 will be releasing the same day PS3 launches.  Anyways, I mention the last paragraph as perhaps for the first time a company will take over as the market leader without their competitors making big mistakes that made that possible.  Only time will tell.
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Offline MaleficentOgre

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2004, 06:42:02 PM »
Until Xbox live starts tunring a profit these guys won't break even.  Xbox live is sucking money out of M$ all the time, the new console will cost a lot of $$$ to push out.  I don't think microsoft will start turning a profit, or even get in the black until their third console.  
That being said its still sony's title to lose and if anyone is set to dethrone them its microsoft.  The only hitch in the system is nintendo.  If nintendo decides to come all bat outa hell like and take an offensive stand in the market, and stop with the constant defense of what they do then they could possible black horse their way to the top. But again with Xbox live becoming more and more popular by the day they have a selling point that could very well be the difference.

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2004, 07:32:03 PM »
I forgot another significant thing I should've said in my last post, MS has an advantage of only having to support 1 system next generation.  While Sony and Nintendo are going all out and trying to hold the portable market with new systems and loads of new games for them, there is MS already well into development with new games for XB2 from many developers.  The next gen is going to be very exciting.  Sony has just as much work to do as Nintendo to keep at #1 than Nintendo does to achieve #1.  So many things could happen, we could have all 3 home consoles neck to neck with PS2 users moving to XB2, or XB2 could become the market leader early with a head start on release.  Sony could grab the portable market and lose it's console stranglehold, or DS and PSP could be neck and neck.  The possibilities are just so exciting.  Whatever the case the next console race could be the closest one ever.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2004, 10:23:00 PM »
joe: Sorry, ambiguous phrasing. I meant their first console (the 2600) was successful while the 5200 and the 7800 failed.
If Sony lost half of their customers that would still make them #1, yes, but those customers would go elsewhere and kill their absolute majority.
Sony's mistake could be alienating third parties, too. ow did Nintendo turn them off? They enforced strict rules on who may and who may not publish on their systems, Sony is now doig the same and I have a feeling most third parties would rather see MS "We give ya money hats, come here!" on top. MS is the only one of the big three that doesn't have a history of ironfist rule yet (well, when it comes to games, at least). As far as predicions go, MS has a serious chance against Sony. A good Rev launch should put Nintendo back into the ring and make for a really interesting fight. After all, the Rev is going to be different, it has the chance of doing the same as the DS.

Hm, the Box is eating a billion a year, right (and MS is already complaining about missiong a billion a year since 2001 and cut employee benefits to compensate)? Imagine what if the thing had five to ten times the sales, MS would lose between 5-10 billion dollars a year, that'd be a disaster not even their OS and Office divisions could compensate for. Well, okay, they've learned their lesson, the Xenon won't be as bad in losing money, but they stated they're in for the long run when asked about the profitability of the Xenon.

Nintendo could make a comeback if the Rev is perceived as coming more after the DS than the Cube. If they're doing the same all-out style launch for the Rev they're going to get a boost next gen, let's just hope they don't give up the Rev like they did the Cube.

Offline MaleficentOgre

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2004, 04:29:48 AM »
I think sony's big problem next generationis their new emphasis on technology, and being the sole owner of their technology.  The PSP won't be so great for third parties after sony's come develop money stops flowing.  The fact that they're making developers send their stuff to them in order to make disc for PSP is going to hurt, and I have a feeling that it might happen again with PS3's technology.

Offline couchmonkey

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2004, 07:27:52 AM »
I don't think Nintendo has given up on the Cube.  Really, this Christmas is arguably Nintendo's strongest from a first-party game perspective, and next year looks fairly promising too.  I do think Nintendo could be working harder to change perceptions about the Cube and bring third parties back, but I think that the company itself is still supporting the GameCube quite well.

As for the actual topic of the thread, I think online gaming is becoming more important every year, and unless Nintendo comes up with a serious online strategy it will lose...or fail to gain...marketshare in North America.
That's my opinion, not yours.
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Offline Ages

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #75 on: September 24, 2004, 06:02:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: MaleficentOgre
I think sony's big problem next generationis their new emphasis on technology, and being the sole owner of their technology.  The PSP won't be so great for third parties after sony's come develop money stops flowing.  The fact that they're making developers send their stuff to them in order to make disc for PSP is going to hurt, and I have a feeling that it might happen again with PS3's technology.


I agree wholeheartedly.  Does this seem familar to anyone?  Back in the day when Nintendo was king, how they'd have sole control over carts and cart production.  I know they enforced quality control, and constricted developer creativity to an extent.  But it looks like Sony's taking the path well travelled with this one.  Will the outcome be the same?  Only time will tell.
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you n

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2004, 08:02:17 PM »
XB2 isn't supposed to lose money the way XB did, they can't afford that again.  As for Sony being the sole owner of technology, I don't think it will hurt them much.  And since there are so many companies involved with Blue Ray and already Blue Ray products available from a dozen companies I doubt there will be a similar situation for PS3 as their is for PSP.

I'm doubtful right now about the launches for the PS3 and the Revolution.  I don't see how the Revolution is going to be released within months of XB2.  Since development kits are not out yet (may have to do with it being so revolutionary and not wanting competitors to "steal" their ideas).  As for the PS3 I think it will be released mid 2006 at the earliest, and for game development they may be okay if they get development kits out soon.  The XB2 is supposedly gonna hit Xmas 2005, and they've had development kits out for awhile so they should have a good launch and continuous releases months after.  

So if Xbox 2 launches Xmas 2005, I'd expect Revolution by March at the latest (if they stay by their word that they will release within months of the competition).  And I tend to think Nintendo means that for the earliest of the competitors to launch since they've seen now that launching a year later of 1 system has hurt them badly.  Xbox 2 has nothing to worry about launching early as far as hardware performance, it will equal or surpass PS3 if PS3 launches almost a year later.  Sony doesn't have to worry about third party support because developers develop games for launch and a year within launch for the company that was most successful last generation.  And their hardware sounds like it's going to be as good as XB2.  What I'm wondering about is how good the Revolution hardware will be, if it will have online support at launch, and what it's revolutionary feature is.  If it's hardware isn't atleast as good as one of the competitors it will have a tough time stealing market share, if it doesn't have online support at launch it will lose 3rd party support, and if the revolutionary feature isn't that revolutionary it will lose consumer respect.

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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: 1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2004, 09:56:32 PM »
Microsoft stated "We're thinking long-term" when asked about the profitability of the Xenon (any Teladi would tell you that Xenon aren't profitable at all...).

How do you know Rev dev kits aren't out yet? Nintendo didn't announce the availability of DS dev kits until much later, either. Devs cannot tell you about that, they're under NDA.

The Xenon will have to worry about the PS3, Sony are the masters of hype and managed to hurt the Dreamcast badly with their PS2 hype.

Offline joeamis

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RE:1 Million People Are Using Xbox Live
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2004, 09:15:51 AM »
It's already been said that XB2 will not be like XB in terms of profitability.  And it's been said it will not include a hard drive among other things only because they don't want to lose tons of money on the console.  Saying they're thinking about the long term for profitability, is the same as what the other companies will tell you.  Sony and Nintendo don't make profit on their consoles, only in the long term they do, when they've produced so many of them, and it's been a few years since the consoles debuted.  

I've read from different videogame journalist sources that Revolution Kits are not out yet.  But even if developers aren't directly saying, "we don't have R. dev. kits", they can talk about the games they're working on for next generation.  And developers have, but theres a trend that either they're making the game for XB2 or PS3.  And theres no mention of Revolution.  The only companies I've heard that already have games in substantial development for Revolution are Nintendo, a few 2nd parties, and Electronic Arts (who will just be porting the versions they're making for the other consoles they already have dev kits for).
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