Topic: RetroActive #24: Kirby & The Amazing Mirror

[Jonnyboy117]

Please use this thread to discuss the winner of our latest RFN RetroActive poll, which was Kirby-themed for the character's 20th anniversary. Kirby & The Amazing Mirror is a GBA title that was also included in the 3DS Ambassador program. The original version supports multiplayer for up to four players -- if you get a chance to try this, or have memories of doing so, we'd especially like to hear from you.

Remember that posts in this thread may be quoted (or paraphrased) on Radio Free Nintendo when the podcast crew discusses the game on an upcoming episode.


HELPFUL TIPS FOR GETTING STARTED:
- A door with a glowing star on top is one you haven't yet entered. Try to find and enter every door!
- You can warp back to the hub area by holding L for a few seconds.
- Calling the other Kirbys (press R) is useful if you're low on health or want extra help on a boss.
- On the pause screen, press select to cycle through to the map. It shows how your current room connects to others; arrows mean the connection is one-way, while a solid line means the doorways work both ways.
- If you ever find a giant pink switch, be sure to step on it. This creates a shortcut from that point back to the hub world, which is very useful when you want to come back and explore alternate paths.
- Only certain Copy powers can destroy gray blocks, which often block secret doors. Try finding (and keeping) Hammer, Missile, Burning, and a few others for this purpose when you're specifically searching for secrets.
- The game auto-saves pretty often, although there's no indicator. Warp back to the hub area before quitting, if you're paranoid.

[syn4aptik]

This will certainly be interesting. I started this game back when I first got it as an ambassador perk, but didn't finish. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing or what was going on. I guess it has like a Metroidvania thing going on but with even less story and direction and a terrible map. I think I might need to start over to have any chance of finishing it.

[TheXenocide]

This will certainly be interesting. I started this game back when I first got it as an ambassador perk, but didn't finish. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing or what was going on. I guess it has like a Metroidvania thing going on but with even less story and direction and a terrible map. I think I might need to start over to have any chance of finishing it.

Yeah, me too. I managed to find the frst boss but I haven't been able to find another main boss at all.

[ejamer]

This will certainly be interesting. I started this game back when I first got it as an ambassador perk, but didn't finish. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing or what was going on. I guess it has like a Metroidvania thing going on but with even less story and direction and a terrible map. I think I might need to start over to have any chance of finishing it.

Yeah, me too. I managed to find the frst boss but I haven't been able to find another main boss at all.

You do realize that learning how to navigate the levels, find hidden exits, and locate bosses is the challenge for this game? If the game were a straight line it would extremely boring...

[syn4aptik]

This will certainly be interesting. I started this game back when I first got it as an ambassador perk, but didn't finish. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing or what was going on. I guess it has like a Metroidvania thing going on but with even less story and direction and a terrible map. I think I might need to start over to have any chance of finishing it.

Yeah, me too. I managed to find the frst boss but I haven't been able to find another main boss at all.

You do realize that learning how to navigate the levels, find hidden exits, and locate bosses is the challenge for this game? If the game were a straight line it would extremely boring...

Well instead of boring, it's just confusing and sucks

[syn4aptik]

To elaborate, to understand how to do a Metroidvania game right see Metroid, Castlevania: SON and subsequent games, Shadow Complex. You can capture the feeling and challenge of discovery without having an incomprehensible map system and confusing goals.

[Jonnyboy117]

I just added some useful tips to the original post. Please check them out if you're having trouble. The game is definitely obtuse, but it starts to make sense pretty quickly once you get going.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I just added some useful tips to the original post. Please check them out if you're having trouble. The game is definitely obtuse, but it starts to make sense pretty quickly once you get going.

Thanks man! Those tips have clarified some of the things I was unsure of. I was actually unaware that there was a Map, lol.

[ejamer]

I know people will complain and argue after hearing this, but checking the manual also helps understand what is going on. The gameplay tips that were posted at the start of this thread cover the highlights and should be enough for most people... but taking a few minutes to read never hurts when you can't figure out a game on your own.

[TJ Spyke]

Yeah, but the Ambassador games don't come with a manual and I would bet that is how many here will play it.

[ejamer]

Yeah, but the Ambassador games don't come with a manual and I would bet that is how many here will play it.

All Ambassador games come with a digital manual. When you select a game from the 3DS menu, there are two options at the bottom of the screen: manual and open.  eShop (ie: non-DSiWare) games are all the same way.  Some manuals are better than others, but if you can't figure out (for example) how to read a confusing map then maybe it's worth the 5 minutes to look through what's provided there.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I know people will complain and argue after hearing this, but checking the manual also helps understand what is going on. The gameplay tips that were posted at the start of this thread cover the highlights and should be enough for most people... but taking a few minutes to read never hurts when you can't figure out a game on your own.

Not that I actively avoid reading manuals or anything, but I've been playing games for so many years that I just tend to dive in and try and work things out myself. Maybe that's a bad thing, I don't know. If I was confused by a certain mechanic on the other hand I would probably check the manual. In this case though I simply wasn't aware that there was a map, so I didn't bother looking at the manual.
 
Well, at least now I know.

[ejamer]

I suspect my natural habit of at least taking a peek at the manual comes from being an old-school gamer. Most people will probably never bother to look at any of their manuals - digital or physical.


The games I grew up playing didn't have space to waste giving the back story (and often were such abstract or arcade designs that "story" was a stretch anyway) so you had to read the manual if you wanted any such details. Later, it would be common to find some interesting things in the manuals - passwords, tips and tricks, humorous writing or pictures - so even though it wasn't necessary most of the time, I'd still make a point to flip through the manual early on just to see what it might hold.


Honestly, there are times when I wish games relied more on manuals than in-game tutorials. Some of the slow-paced, unskippable, introductory BS at the start of modern games drives me nuts these days. *cough*Zelda*cough*  The old way, players who wanted to dive right in could - even if that meant they might be outclassed or wandering around clueless at the start.

[Glad0s]

Thanks for the tips, Jonny. This will be my third attempted play through. The first two times, I enjoyed it, but it was never really clear to me what to do. I couldn't really tell if I was on the right path or completely lost. Hopefully I can get farther into it this time.

[TheXenocide]

I've managed do make a little more progress in the game, but not much. I feel like this game would be a lot more accessable if the map system was a little better. I have a hard time keeping track of which world three door leads to which part of world three. I don't mind the open world thing so much, but one thing that just seems out of p.ace to me are the goals on the map. I don't see any point in their being a goal when it doesn't give you a piece of the mirror or open up a new world. Making it to a goal is a very hollow victory. And can some one please tell me how I "unlock" the maps? Some are detailed, but then others are zoomed way out and don't have any detail at all.

[Glad0s]

/\
 l
 l


Yes! The whole "goal" thing completely mystifies me. What exactly is your prize?!? Some 1-up's and health? Seriously?


But yes, I'm enjoying it so far. I really like the idea of using different copy powers to solve puzzles. Heck, the whole idea of using powers granted to you by enemies is ironically Wario Land-esque. Also, while I like the extremely free-form exploration for now, I'm kinda worried as to how difficult it may be to find certain bosses near the end of the game. We'll see....


Oh, and I think this is a much better game than Wario Land 4, for the record.

[ejamer]

I've managed do make a little more progress in the game, but not much. I feel like this game would be a lot more accessable if the map system was a little better. I have a hard time keeping track of which world three door leads to which part of world three. I don't mind the open world thing so much, but one thing that just seems out of p.ace to me are the goals on the map. I don't see any point in their being a goal when it doesn't give you a piece of the mirror or open up a new world. Making it to a goal is a very hollow victory. And can some one please tell me how I "unlock" the maps? Some are detailed, but then others are zoomed way out and don't have any detail at all.

Totally agree about the Goals. They don't seem to give anything meaningful... in fact, it's kind of disappointing to end up in a Goal room and know you're going to be kicked back to the starting room instead of continuing to explore.


Detailed level maps are hidden in treasure chests. You have to explore to find them. Frankly, this is my biggest complaint with the game right now because the "zoomed out" map is virtually useless and it's totally possible to miss a chest holding the map and be stuck wandering through a level without much guidance. Once you have the detailed maps, it's much easier to plan out where you want to go - even if that means backtracking to get the necessary power somewhere else.


Does anyone know how to make the yellow platforms drop to open up new paths? I thought it was a weight thing using the Rock special ability... but that didn't work. I made one drop accidentally but have no idea how that happened.


Currently sitting at 50% with 5 mirror pieces out of 8. Pretty happy with that level of progress... but the "easy" stuff is mostly done and I need to figure out some new stuff (or get help) before long to keep moving forward.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Been playing this for a few hours today. I agree with much of what has been said already.
 
I have found the Map in the Amazing Mirror (AM) to be pretty obtuse. Part of the problem seems to be that the map lacks the detail neccessary to work out spacially where Kirby is within a given box. Akin to Super Metroid, AM has a map system which is comprised of connected 'boxes'. Also like Super Metroid, it can be difficult in AM to determine where you are within a given box. You usually have a rough idea of which direction you need to go in order to reach the next box, but it's not always apparent which door will lead in which direction. It can be a little frustrating.
 
I have a theory for why some people, myself included, might find the Map somewhat frustrating. For the purposes of comparison I think it's worthwhile looking at Super Metroid, which is perhaps my favourite game.
 
Why, you may ask, would a guy whose favourite game is Super Metroid find the map in AM to be frustrating given that they're so similar? I believe it is because Super Metroid is a better game.
 
Now, while that may seem like quite a caustic statement, for me the overall quality of the game has repercussions for how appropriate the map system is. With Super Metroid, the game is fun enough for me to want to explore. The level design, combat and general sense of atmosphere in Super Metroid suck me in to such an extent that I feel compelled to explore the world. With a game like Super Metroid, therefore, all I really need is a basic map which highlights where I've been and where I've yet to explore.
 
With AM, however, I don't find the level design, platforming or enemies to be all that engaging. As a result, I'm not looking for a map which is as abstracted as that seen in Super Metroid. What I want from AM's map is something which shows where exactly I need to go to move on. It might be a strong indictment of the overall game that I simply don't want to have to explore in AM, something which I love to do in other (I would argue more well made) games.
 
In my opinion, therefore, the problems some people have been having with the map are more reflective of their experience with game overall, than they are with the design of the map itself.
 
I could be wrong though.

[Jonnyboy117]

Is anyone else having a great time with this game? The reactions so far seem to be quite negative, but I loved it back then and am finding that it holds up really well.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Is anyone else having a great time with this game? The reactions so far seem to be quite negative, but I loved it back then and am finding that it holds up really well.

To put my negativity into some context I should say that I have never been a fan of Kirby Platformers. Adventure was pretty cool back in the day but by and large I find Kirby Platfrmers to be a little boring. However, I have to imagine there are quite a few fans of Kirby's platformers out there (otherwise Nintendo would have stopped making them) who do in fact appreciate Amazing Mirror and what it tries to do. I'm just not one of them.

[ejamer]

Is anyone else having a great time with this game? The reactions so far seem to be quite negative, but I loved it back then and am finding that it holds up really well.

It's probably my favorite game in the Kirby series -- although the Wii entries seem pretty good too based on very limited play.


Although I complained a little bit about having to find maps earlier, I do really like how the world is one big area to explore. That gives a ton of freedom about how you approach and experience the game. There are also a ton of special powers to learn how to use, big and small secrets hidden all over, and some mini-game diversions for when you don't want to keep exploring.  (Has anyone else tried the mini-games?)


I'm not sure what to think about the gimmick of having four Kirbys running around. It's frustrating when you need them to help flip a switch or move a heavy block, because the AI doesn't seem to clue into what I want after summoning them to my location. But that doesn't happen often so is really just a small annoyance. (Multiplayer would be nice, but unless it was online play I probably wouldn't get to make use of it anyway.)


The cell phone gimmick is cool though. Being able to instantly call your Kirby counterparts to your location is a fun bonus when fighting bosses or just looking to create some chaos in your immediate area. It's also very convenient to be able to warp to the main screen at any time, giving you lots of options about where to go next if you've been finding switches that open new mirrors.

[Glad0s]

Yeah, Jonny, as you can see from my above comment, I'm quite enjoying the game so far. It's probably my favorite Kirby game ever, as it mixes the semi-boring, easy, typical Kirby gameplay with sime very interesting game design ideas. Cool stuff.

[pokepal148]

To elaborate, to understand how to do a Metroidvania game right see Metroid, Castlevania: SON and subsequent games, Shadow Complex. You can capture the feeling and challenge of discovery without having an incomprehensible map system and confusing goals.

At the same time the fact that you dont keep every power you find forever is quite intresting, it becomes an endurance run between you and the path to the secret you are after. Metroid you just come back later with a missle upgrade, here you have to find the power
you need and hold onto it with your life. The map is horrible though

[TheXenocide]

I'm having a hard time getting sucked into this game (no pun intended). I just feel like I don't make enough progress when I play for an hour or even two and I find myself gravitating towards other games. I really want to finish this game, though, so I'm going to pull up some YouTube guides later and see if I can't make a descent dent in this game.

[Pixelated Pixies]

At the same time the fact that you dont keep every power you find forever is quite intresting, it becomes an endurance run between you and the path to the secret you are after. Metroid you just come back later with a missle upgrade, here you have to find the power
you need and hold onto it with your life. The map is horrible though

That's actually an interesting point. Indeed, there have been quite a few times during my play through of AM that I've found myself trying really hard to retain a certain power. Particularly those which have the potential to break the grey blocks.
 
One of my primary criticisms of the Kirby series of platformers has been that although the power-ups are broad (in terms of variety), they've never been particularly deep. In other words, there's loads to choose from, but few of them actually have any gameplay significance. In Kirby platformers you're never really tasked with using Ice to freeze water, Fire to light torches, or Wind to blow propellors. Those are, of course, all very generic and boring examples, but you get the point. The choice of which power-up to use in a given Kirby level is usually a stylistic one; very rarely is it a tactical one (there are of course exceptions).
 
AM makes some improvement in that regard, but I still think the game could have went further in giving the various power-ups more utility. There's few, if any, situations that I've come across, for example, which were not overcome by using the 'Fighter', 'Hammer' or 'Fire' power up. Power-ups have always been a staple of the Kirby series, but they've never been woven into the design of the games in the same way as they have with Nintendo's other series'.

That is not necessarilly a bad thing. Personally, though, I find Kirby's take on power-ups less satisfying.

[ejamer]

...
Does anyone know how to make the yellow platforms drop to open up new paths? I thought it was a weight thing using the Rock special ability... but that didn't work. I made one drop accidentally but have no idea how that happened.
...

So dumb. Look closer, and the yellow platforms are being held up by a string (or something similar). Get a cutting power and you can drop them easily and at will. If anyone else was wondering, that's the answer.

[TheXenocide]

Just in case anybody else wants to cheat like me, antidark001 has some pretty decent guide videos on YouTube.

[Pandareus]

Grr, this is BS. There is this large star stone that can only be displaced by several Kirbys inhaling at the same time behind this wall of lava constantly spewed out of this small volcano. You OBVIOUSLY have to pull it on top of the volcano crater to block it, but the other Kirbys are utterly uncooperative. They stand there like morons, and sometimes just push me into the wall of lava. I've already lost a life.

I've managed to make the block move a couple inches, somehow, but haven't been able to move it the rest of the way for the past 10 minutes.

[ejamer]

Grr, this is BS. There is this large star stone that can only be displaced by several Kirbys inhaling at the same time behind this wall of lava constantly spewed out of this small volcano. You OBVIOUSLY have to pull it on top of the volcano crater to block it, but the other Kirbys are utterly uncooperative. They stand there like morons, and sometimes just push me into the wall of lava. I've already lost a life.

I've managed to make the block move a couple inches, somehow, but haven't been able to move it the rest of the way for the past 10 minutes.

Very interested if anyone else knows how to get past that section. I got stuck there over the weekend, and eventually just gave up and went somewhere else to explore.

[Pandareus]

Okay. I googled the question, and it turns out you don't CLEARLY need the suction power of 4 Kirbys, what you need it use the rock power a couple of times and each time, the star rock will inch closer to the crater.

:-|

I'm liking the game, but that's bad design on the scale of the Sonic 3 drum right there. The situation is perfectly analogous, actually. You try doing what you've been doing the whole game and it seems to work, but not really.

Turns out it's something you've never been asked to do before.

[Glad0s]

I noticed something last night. I was trying to beat the eyeball/cloud boss, and I realized something....I was actually being precise and careful in a Kirby platformer. I've played around 4, and every one of them is extremely easy. I just force my way through to the end. But the whole "keep your powers till when you need them" device makes the player be much more safe in his playing. I like it.

[pandaradox]

So I've had a great time with this game so far!  Yeah the map sucks, but I find wandering to be a rather effective way to handle this game.  Given that all losing your lives does is spit you back to the hub, there's not much punishment for this style of gameplay.  The wonderlust of this game comes from going through a good chunk of these areas with different abilities.  Being a Wheel can change that level significantly than if you're using Hammer.  I think that's only speaking great volumes to the level design. 


I think Guillaume pointed out the largest flaw, that this game shines with multiplayer and the ambassador games can't use it.  I've had to watch as an army of dummies wander into a pit instead of staying on the switch I called them there for.  They made Four Swords into a one-player experience, but I guess the anniversary of Kirby isn't as important to Nintendo.  *shrugs*


I'm really thankful for the red switch rooms.  It seems like these are the true reward to the game!  It's like finding an oasis in the chaos of this game's map. 

[Jonnyboy117]

A couple of notes to address comments in the thread:

- You can indeed move the large stone blocks with the suction power of four Kirbys. I just did it. However, it is a challenge in single-player mode. Keep in mind that your phoned-in buddies will usually arrive with powers, and you have to be normal or Throw to get the required suction. They should start to eject their stars when they see you inhaling, but they'll also be tempted to re-inhale those loose stars. It helps if you suck up whatever they eject and just blow it back out to get rid of it. Once all four of you are Normal, try to position everyone so that you're all close enough to the big block without anyone blocking its movement or standing on top of it.

- The map becomes far more useful if you find the map treasure for a given area. Then you can see a very detailed diagram of how each room connects to the others. Unfortunately, these map items are hidden in the large treasure chests and are usually very difficult to find. After activating big pink switches, finding every large treasure chest should be your next priority.

- Some very important doors are guarded by the shy yellow mirror creatures. Attack them quickly with a power like Burning to kill them and free the door. If the enemy hides before you can kill it, leave the room and come back to reset it.

- Some small pink switches are only active for a very short time. You may need to activate them from afar -- try aiming a Cutter blade or throwing a Bomb.

[ejamer]

A couple of notes to address comments in the thread:

- You can indeed move the large stone blocks with the suction power of four Kirbys. I just did it. However, it is a challenge in single-player mode. Keep in mind that your phoned-in buddies will usually arrive with powers, and you have to be normal or Throw to get the required suction. They should start to eject their stars when they see you inhaling, but they'll also be tempted to re-inhale those loose stars. It helps if you suck up whatever they eject and just blow it back out to get rid of it. Once all four of you are Normal, try to position everyone so that you're all close enough to the big block without anyone blocking its movement or standing on top of it.


...

- Some small pink switches are only active for a very short time. You may need to activate them from afar -- try aiming a Cutter blade or throwing a Bomb.

Normally you can move big blocks easy enough by calling your fellow Kirbys to the same screen, but I don't think it works at the one place where Pandareus mentioned because there isn't enough room for all of the Kirbys to stand without pushing each other into the lava.


The Bomb power is quite nice for switches. If you hold down and press attack, Kirby will drop a bomb on the ground that blows up after a short delay. (Just be sure it isn't touching anything when you set it down.)

[Glad0s]

Another good way to kill the yellow door thingys is to press the up button, suck up some air, and then land a decent ways away from the door. Then, press B, and Kirby will spit out the air, thus killing the yellow thing.

[ClexYoshi]

Well! this is it; the Retro-active that convinced me to finally stop lurking around here. For a brief and quick history, I had only stumbled upon NWR a short bit after Craig Harris left IGN, so that's how long I've been quietly listening in, enjoying me some Radio Free Nintendo and to that extent, the opinions of others doing this whole Retro-active thing!

Fair warning, I miiiiight get a bit spoiler-y in the upcoming ramble, as I'm crazy tired and generally run my mouth on subjects like these without really thinking about what I'm saying first, which is really a silly statement considering I'm typing all this.

Kirby and the Amazing Mirror! This game is pretty sweet, and I was super jazzed when back in the day I heard it was going to be The Great Cave Offensive (THe treasure hunting open world section of Kirby Super Star and my second favorite game in that collection next to Milky Way Wishes) fleshed out into a full game, complete with 4 player exploration  independent of one another AND the return of some Irby's Adventure Powers that had been absent from the series like UFO and the terribly, TERRIBLY broken Tornado! I did convince my friends to get this beast back in the day, but I think I was probably the only one who was super enthusiastic about this one though; they were all busy with their Four Swords. : <

Regardless, I liked this game quite a lot and it spent many a hour in my GBA before it got ripped off by petty thugs at my high school! ... yyyyeah. oh well, I played it to 100% completion and even did some fun things like mono-copy ability boss rushes and such. I was more than excited when I heard this was going to be one of the ambassador games and I actually ended up knocking this and Wario Land 4 out before moving on to the GBA Port of my favorite game of all time and Fire Emblem 8.

The complaints about the map are VERY valid, especially when you start getting into some of the more complex levels like Peppermint Palace and Carrot Castle. The folks at Hal and Flagship [who I can't remember, but I THINK they MIGHT have been a shell company between Hal and DiMPS of the Sonic Advance/Sonic the Hedgehog 4 fame] tend to in some areas purposefully set it up so you pass through a big room on two separate routes that aren't interconnected at all, and when there's multiple one-way doors to take, this can get hyper confusing at times. When I played through the first time and didn't know about the map, I actually relied a lot on the system of the doors having that glow above them and the little star doors meaning that that route happens to be a one-way.

If you REALLY want a good way to go about getting treasure sand finding the nooks and crannies, there's a special copy ability that you can get that will let you butter through any puzzle with ease, although the Smash ability is also good for that [as well as a hilarious little nod to Kirby's SSBM move set!] Other abilities I suggest are Tornado because it  may be a little hard to control, but it gives you craaaaaaaaazy amounts of invincibility frames and cheeses all the bosses so super hard [it even cheeses the final boss harder than the aforementioned super secret copy ability does!], Bomb for being able to deal with timed switch puzzles without relying on the AI being complete dummies, Throw because it does damage like spitting out a cluster of enemies does, and Sword because for no reason at all, they made Sword stupid versatile in this game compared to other games.

I'd also like to address those few situations where they put the giant stone blocks in the way, because I believe those are examples of very bad use of iterative game design. in the opening tutorial path, the game purposefully shows you one of those blocks and shows you that the 4 kirbies can inhale these, but then when these blocks are presented later, they're in REALLY frustrating spots to try and perform this technique. however, repeatedly spamming stone will shake the ground and nudge the block over ever so slightly until it falls through a crack or something.

Anyhow, I could yammer on and on and ON AND ON about how cool I like the Kirby's adventure forest remix that they use for Cabbage Caverns, or the Boss from Candy Constellation  or the fun little mini-games and such, but the feature I kinda strangely liked even if it is a cosmetic one were the sprays you could find to change Kirby's color before you'd jump into the game. I'd always be excited to play as a different color every time I'd boot up the game!

That being said... I still want my Full-featured Milky Way Wishes style game. ;_; Seriously, it'd be awesome! Like Mega Man... but with Kirby abilities!~

[Pixelated Pixies]

@ClexYoshi
 
This was designed as a fleshed out The Great Cave Offensive? That explains alot about my feelings towards this game. Which is to say my ambivalence.
 
Still, I always find it gratifying to hear people describe their love of a game even if it's one I'm not particularly interested in. That for me is what retroactive is all about.
 
Also, to any other lurkers out there please feel free to come forward. The more you throw your thoughts out there the more interesting the discussion of these games will be.

[ClexYoshi]

@ClexYoshi
 
This was designed as a fleshed out The Great Cave Offensive? That explains alot about my feelings towards this game. Which is to say my ambivalence.

Well, think about it... Great Cave Offensive was a connected and persistent super area  where you used certain copy abilities to open up paths to get useless bits of McGuffin. Kirby and the Amazing Mirror was a connected and persistent super area where you hit annoying dead-ends  that eject you to the beginning of the maze while sometimes giving you a chest with slightly more functional McGuffin. That being said, that isn't nearly as infuriating of a design because of your abilities to open up all those shortcut branches to the beginning of the maze that makes it easier to backtrack then in Great Cave offensive, where if you miss a treasure you're hiking all the way through half of the game to go into a nook you might have missed your first time through that's on a completely off-beat path.

P.S.  I know it's sorta kinda premature to be asking, but here's hoping for some La Mulana in the next Retro-active poll Because I'm kinda sadistic like that and I kinda giggled in glee hearing about Johnny's epic struggle with the first 10 minutes of the game... that, and the original Freeware verison of the game came out in 2006 and it's been out for a while in Japan! C'mon, you -KNOW- you wanna!

[Pixelated Pixies]

@ClexYoshi
 
Yeah, I had noted that there were similar themes and ideas between GCO and AM, but I didn't know how strong it was as an influence or that it was actually their intent to expand upon those ideas. It totally makes sense though.
 
A La Mulana retroactive would definitely be interesting. I created a thread about my first few hours with the game and intend to update my impressions as I make it further into the game. It's been a wild ride so far.

[pandaradox]

Excellent post, Clex! 


Does anyone else find themselves caring less and less about 1-ups and Food?  I find this game more enjoyable when I free-run.

[Glad0s]

Hrm....I now have all but two of the shards, and to tell you the truth, I really feel no motivation to go back and finish the game. I spent about 40 minutes last night just looking around, and while it wasn't un-enjoyable, I still don't feel the need to track down the last two parts at this point. There are lots of other games I want to play, and I really don't feel like I get much out of just blindly exploring the game for long stretches of time. So yeah, I've enjoyed it, but I don't really love it. I certainly don't regret spending the hours that I spent with it, though. Anyone else feel a lack of motivation to finish?

[Pixelated Pixies]

Hrm....I now have all but two of the shards, and to tell you the truth, I really feel no motivation to go back and finish the game. I spent about 40 minutes last night just looking around, and while it wasn't un-enjoyable, I still don't feel the need to track down the last two parts at this point. There are lots of other games I want to play, and I really don't feel like I get much out of just blindly exploring the game for long stretches of time. So yeah, I've enjoyed it, but I don't really love it. I certainly don't regret spending the hours that I spent with it, though. Anyone else feel a lack of motivation to finish?

That's pretty much how I feel.

[ClexYoshi]

Hrm....I now have all but two of the shards, and to tell you the truth, I really feel no motivation to go back and finish the game. I spent about 40 minutes last night just looking around, and while it wasn't un-enjoyable, I still don't feel the need to track down the last two parts at this point. There are lots of other games I want to play, and I really don't feel like I get much out of just blindly exploring the game for long stretches of time. So yeah, I've enjoyed it, but I don't really love it. I certainly don't regret spending the hours that I spent with it, though. Anyone else feel a lack of motivation to finish?

I hear you. it can kinda be draggy trying to find a couple of the bosses, particularly the Olive Ocean  and Cabbage Caverns ones. Olive Ocean is especially outrageous in this regard because It's a very long and drawn out water level with lots one one-ways. outside of hammer, Sword, and Parasol, it's VERY hard to retain copy abilities for extended periods of time when you're constantly under water, and indeed, you need to bring abilities to get to certain treasures.they also enjoy VERY annoying placement of Mr. Blipper AI variants that behave like Super Mario World's Rip Van Fish.  there also happens to be very annoyingly placed Glunks  in ares where there's lots of spikes to put you right in the line of fire.  Losing your copy ability you need to open a path doesn't make it hard, it makes it kinda tedious.

I also feel like dumping spoiler text, so uh... that's what this next paragraph or two is going to be, kids!



There's a couple of really, REALLY interesting bits about this game that intrigue me quite a bit! I believe that Kirby and the amazing Mirror was the first kirby game not to have King Dedede show up in some way, shape or form! I could be wrong about this because maybe the baseball game doesn't have Dedede, but It's just kinda odd. what's cool though and I really wish they would have ran with more was things like King Golem, who is obviously an alternate universe version of Wispy Woods with how he's pretty much a reskin of that boss. They didn't do this with Kracko, and I'm not really counting evil greyscale Meta Knight because he's a pallete swap of Meta Knight. Speaking of Meta Knight, I really like that they let you drag his Galaxia Sword around wherever once you've beaten the game and use it as a way to solve almost any puzzle in the game. it even has what would become Meta Knight's side+B move going on there to butter through the opposition! Another really weird thing is the whole Smash Bros. Tie-in by having Master Hand as a sub-boss and Crazy hand as an actual boss. if you go back to my babbling about alternate universe enmies in the mirror world, I suppose you can look at Master Hand and Crazy hand being alternate universe versions of Wham Bam Rock? I'unno.

I still like this game and think it's cool for incentivizing copy ability retention and thus careful play, and I like having a Kirby game that isn't just a straight shot to the goal. with false sorts of goals ready to hinder you in a very misleading way.

Still want a Milky Way Wishes full featured game where you have to either regain the right to copy certain enemies, or that you have a certain energy bar to the copy aiblity that after you take X number of hits, it gets locked off until you find an energy restoring item? I dunno, I just really liked being able to reach in and use Kirby Super Star copy abilities in a toolbox style fashion, even if I didn't like being able to spawn infinite partners.

[ejamer]

How are people progressing through the game?

I'm sitting at about 80% complete, with only one shard missing. Unlike the people above, I'm kind of excited to find the last piece of mirror and see what happens. There are two key areas left to explore: levels 7 and 8. Haven't found the maps for either, so that's kind of my sticking point right now. I think that level 8 should be easy enough since I know how to get into the level easy enough... but getting to level 7 isn't as clear to me yet.

I've just completed the game, but only have an 87% rating. Too many treasure chests missed I guess, including the map for level 7.  Pretty satisfied with the game overall, and like the fact you get a bonus to make further play interesting after the game is "finished". Not sure if there is anything for reaching 100%... not sure I care enough to find out at this point in time. Probably my favorite Kirby game though. The large, interconnected world that had to be explored is really what pushed it over the top for me. Usually Kirby games are so direct and easy, even if they are somewhat charming it's not enough to hold my interest.

Also wanted to chime in that I also found the Smash Bros tie-in to be very interesting, and I'm not even a Smash Bros fan. Probably my favorite boss so far, with maybe the four-fisted Iron Knight being my second favorite.

[ClexYoshi]

How are people progressing through the game?


I'm sitting at about 80% complete, with only one shard missing. Unlike the people above, I'm kind of excited to find the last piece of mirror and see what happens. There are two key areas left to explore: levels 7 and 8. Haven't found the maps for either, so that's kind of my sticking point right now. I think that level 8 should be easy enough since I know how to get into the level easy enough... but getting to level 7 isn't as clear to me yet.


Just wanted to chime in that I also found the Smash Bros tie-in to be very interesting, and I'm not even a Smash Bros fan. Probably my favorite boss so far, with maybe the four-fisted Iron Knight being my second favorite.

The path to the boss of Radish ruins is pretty much a straight shot to the left for the most part until you come toa  room with a bunch of cannons to shoot out of. you want to go for the lower path through this route and it'll lead you to the boss.

As for the route to the Peppermint Palace boss,  it's also quite far to the left of the path. if you're just entering Peppermint Palace from the leftmost of the two entrances that are in Carrot Castle, you'll stumble upon the shortcut switch that leads back to the mirror hub room, and beyond that if you just keep going left, until you'll eventually hit a room with a platform with some rope you can cut. you dont' want to go to the path that cutting the rope will lead you on, but rather the path that leads you up into a big open room with the giant rockys and such. there's a one-way door in the upper left that will take you to the room with the boss.

[Pandareus]

@ejamer - I completed with around that, 88%. I'm still missing a map for world 5 I believe, haha.

I'm not sure if I'm gonna go for 100% completion. In this type of game, I usually don't find trying to find every nook and cranny I missed to be that enjoyable. I'd rather quit this game on a high note.

I watched a 100% completion ending video on youtube just to see if there was anything extra, and all that happens is you unlock a Boss Endurance mode.

[ejamer]

@ejamer - I completed with around that, 88%. I'm still missing a map for world 5 I believe, haha.

I'm not sure if I'm gonna go for 100% completion. In this type of game, I usually don't find trying to find every nook and cranny I missed to be that enjoyable. I'd rather quit this game on a high note.

I watched a 100% completion ending video on youtube just to see if there was anything extra, and all that happens is you unlock a Boss Endurance mode.

If that's the only bonus for getting 100% then I'm done. The extra mode is a nice touch, but nothing I care about, so "quit [...] on a high note" is exactly how I feel.


Kirby & The Amazing Mirror has been enjoyable despite some rough patches, and I'm glad this retroactive helped give me the incentive to push through.

[Evan_B]

Yeah, honestly, having played only Kirby 64, Epic Yarn, and Sqeak Squad but always having a soft spot for the pink fluff ball, I downloaded this game as an Ambassador for 3DS, started playing it, and had no effin' clue what I was doing. After hearing such wondrous praise and a really good explanation of what the game is like, I'm looking forward to picking it up again. Thanks for the incentive guys, this gives me a reason to not-buy a new game and instead focus on one I already have, which is nice.