Author Topic: FF:CC needs more than one GBA? (Read 27455 times)

Bloodworth · « **Reply #100 on:** May 12, 2003, 01:06:00 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Zeth

How did the FMV look out of place in FF7, 8 or 9? Yes, it looked a lot better than the Playstation's graphics but out of place? No.

The biggest problem I had with FF7's cut-scenes is that they weren't consistent in the slightest. There were a ton of different models for all the scenes with various levels of detail. I will admit though that the in-game graphics were so poor that FF7 likely would have flopped (in comparison) if it didn't rely on pre-rendered cinemas and backgrounds.

Gamefreak · « **Reply #101 on:** May 12, 2003, 01:35:23 AM »

Ok so the FF cutscenes weren't consistent.

But let me bring up another fine example: Warcraft III.
The CGI scenes are some of the best I've ever seen in video game, and are very consistent, with the possible exception of the grass in the opening video which looks far too perfect and unreal compared to the more realistic grass in the other videos...but the opening was made like 4 years ago...
Anyway, the uber-realistic FMV sequences, while consistent, stand in stark contrast to the cartoony, quirky, and colorful in-game graphics... The FMV scenes look oh-so-sweet, but is it worth it if it doesn't look the same as the in game stuff?

PIAC · « **Reply #102 on:** May 12, 2003, 01:51:26 AM »

This has gotten way off topic, consider this an official warning Bloodworth

[/pointlesspowertrip]
okay i just wanted to feel big

MysticGohan · « **Reply #103 on:** May 12, 2003, 10:00:17 PM »

I agree with you both Bloodworth and Mouse I like ingame cutscenes and FMV I enjoy either.

But will Square give us options to have 2players atleast? surely with a gba and GC controller that could be accomplished. How was SOM done?

I just don't want to buy more GBA's just to play, I wouldn't mind owning two if I had the money, but that's alot to expect people to know or have friend with GBA's. As I've stated that's a problem for people like me who aren't acustomed to having people around who have GBA's. It makes it hard especially inthe case of FF:CC, Sure I can play it alone, But I wanted to play with Co-op with family and friends. "neither having GBA's or willing to buy one"

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #104 on:** May 14, 2003, 12:07:58 PM »

Back on topic here....

IGN Cube reports something strange. At a pricate FF:CC showing at E3, there were only 3 GBAs available on a FF: CC unit, and a Nintendo rep plugged in a standard controller instead of a GBA in the last port, and the game ran fine. Will you all please stop whining now?

Anyways, a link to the story. It's the last paragraph on page 2.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/402/402172p2.html

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #105 on:** May 14, 2003, 12:18:04 PM »

I think we can assume you won't need 4 GBA's. From the IGN article Grey Ninja linked to:

"One thing in particular must be cleared up: players are not required to use a GBA system to play Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles in its current form. In the private hands-on playtest that we experienced, only three GBA SP systems were available, thus a Nintendo representative was forced to plug in a standard GCN controller to join the party. The previously mentioned Japanese interview had caused quite a stir among Nintendo fans during the past week in regards to whether four GBA systems were required for multiplayer action, but we can confirm that this is not the case in the version we played. Whether or not this will change for its final release remains to be determined, but we consider it unlikely."

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #106 on:** May 14, 2003, 01:31:59 PM »

:You have TWO TYPES OF CUT-SCENES"

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough (this is pretty complicated).

Okay, you have THREE different types of cut-scenes- I won't insult your intelligence by telling you what a cut-scene is, since you've already displayed your immense knowledge on this fact by telling ME.

1. Real time- this means that the graphics themselves are produced BY the console itself and the cut-scene is actually *formed* at that moment. Their is lines of code in the programming that tell the game how to piece together the cut-scene. This allows the customized character to be shown in the cut-scene since it's forming the scene as it goes along.

2. Real time pre-rendered- This means the cut-scene uses graphics that are generated by the console itself but the actual movie is animated by graphic artists ahead of time, frame by frame- hence the term pre-rendered (rendered, or created, ahead of time by actual people, not the game). This doesn't allow use of the customized character because the character model was created by graphic artists.

3. CG pre-rendered- This means a cut-scene that was not only animated by people ahead of time but using state of the art computer generated graphics much more advanced than what the console in question can generate. Like real time pre-rendered cut-scenes, they do not offer customization since they are animated entirely ahead of time. The main difference is a REAL TIME pre-rendered cut-scene uses the console's own graphical power while a CG pre-rendered cut-scene uses computer generated graphics.

Just because a cut-scene uses the console's own graphical power does NOT mean it offeres customization. FMV is the term used to refer to ANY pre-rendered cut-scene, be they real time or CG. I'm sorry if I confused you by using it only to refer to CG cut-scenes, but there ARE 3 different types of cut-scenes. It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to believe.

"but what you mean is YOU don't care. You certainly can't tell us that we don't care. And while something like the Power Rings isn't likely to be noticed, changing a sword or shield is going to be noticeably inconsistent, especially with the level of detail in graphics that we have now."

True, I didn't conduct a scientific research, but I've honestly never heard anyone complain about their character looking different in the cut-scene until now. Sure it may be noticable, especially now, as you pointed out, but it still is a very trivial thing and if someone's getting whiny over something so insignificant, then I seriously think they chose the wrong hobby.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #107 on:** May 14, 2003, 01:42:47 PM »

#2 is hogwash. That's all I'll say on that one. I am a programmer. I program video games in my free time. ALL cinematics are pre-determined by the programmers, ok? That's what a cinematic is.

Anyways, I guess E3 is about over for the day. I have a CDR full of stuff, and I am going to go home and play some Aerobiz Supersonic, or program my Metal Gear game some more. later.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #108 on:** May 14, 2003, 01:45:35 PM »

Then you're mistaken, Ninja- I've talked to a guy who used to program games for a living who said number 2 ISN'T hogwash, it's just not that practicle since you can have your engine create it on the fly, ala number 1. There ARE cut-scenes that use real time graphics but are animated ahead of time and are videos that are called upon by the game rather than being created by the game's engine at that moment.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #109 on:** May 14, 2003, 02:56:14 PM »

Anyway ignoring all this pointless cut scene talk I'm very happy to find out that Crystal Chronicles doesn't require the GBA. I mean I'm still going to use a GBA because I have one and a link cable but not all myfriends do and even if the controller option is more limited I want them to be able to play.

Without the GBA requirement this title instantly goes from being a niche title to a potential killer app. Good move by Square-Enix.

Mr_Denim · « **Reply #110 on:** May 14, 2003, 03:31:59 PM »

Hmmm, well, at the risk of sending all and sundry into frothing fits of hair pulling and teeth gnashing let me ask this;

I plug four standard Cube controllers into the controller ports, with nary a GBA/GBA SP in sight; will I, or will I not be able to have four people play the game with NO problems in game play whatsoever?

Scyth3r · « **Reply #111 on:** May 14, 2003, 04:13:05 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mr_Denim
Hmmm, well, at the risk of sending all and sundry into frothing fits of hair pulling and teeth gnashing let me ask this;

I plug four standard Cube controllers into the controller ports, with nary a GBA/GBA SP in sight; will I, or will I not be able to have four people play the game with NO problems in game play whatsoever?

IGN says you can but you'll be severley limited in your abilities I believe.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #112 on:** May 14, 2003, 04:32:40 PM »

Time to add my cents:

Yes, according to IGN, the game can be played with regular controllers, but it isn't as good as with Gameboys...now to me, this isn't a serious problem since I don't see myself playing with anyone else anyway, but having said that, I can easily see why everyone else is complaining.

This seems unecessarily complicated. Connectivity is supposed to sell Gamecube to GBA owners but as far as I can see this feature just annoys people that don't own GBAs. Can anyone tell me how this feature is going to sell the game to Gameboy owners? I mean, they have to buy an expensive console plus the cables to connect the GBAs to the GameCube plus a new game...what exactly do they get out of it? I guess you could argue that if four people already own GBAs they can play the game without buying extra GCN controllers but that seems like a pretty small bonus, especially since none of the GameCube's other multiplayer games can be played without GameCube controllers.

So ultimately, the game doesn't really do anything to benefit the GBA owners and at the same time, it serves to tick off GameCube owners. I'm still optimistic that it will be a good game, but unless Square Enix "fixes" it so that it is reasonably playable with Gamecube controllers, I won't be using the multiplayer features.

EggyToast · « **Reply #113 on:** May 14, 2003, 05:13:24 PM »

You can see the 3 gba, 1 GC controller screenshot in a few places. The person in the top-right has an oldschool GBA over their character picture with an X over the top. That's probably to signify to other characters that the player will be doing stuff on-screen, so they don't assume he has the same abilities (mainly to hoard menu items if he wants to, or good weapons, etc.).

As you have a lot more buttons on the GC controller, I'd imagine it's just fine playing without the GBA.

AlphaDragoon2002 · « **Reply #114 on:** May 14, 2003, 07:22:27 PM »

All I have to say to this is, "d@mn straight." I'm glad I won't be buying extra GBAs just to use as controllers.

Mr_Denim · « **Reply #115 on:** May 14, 2003, 09:38:08 PM »

Thanks and appreciation to those that replied. From my perspective, this game will initially be a rental.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #116 on:** May 15, 2003, 06:09:00 AM »

Mouse: With number 2 you probably mean Pre-rendered using ingame models and textures. Usually that's the lazy man's approach to CG scenes and is IMO the worst option of all three. If you use the game models anyway you can make in-engine cutscenes for smoother transition between game and scene. When there are too many onscreen for you to use the engine, you can as well take the extra steps to make a hipoly version of the model and use that instead. Marketing will appreciate that because it gives them something to put on the box. BTW the explaination "This doesn't allow use of the customized character because the character model was created by graphic artists." is as wrong as it can get. The reason is the scene being rendered beforehand. The character model is created by the artist anyway, as all tries to implement a "make art" button so far failed.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #117 on:** May 15, 2003, 11:36:08 AM »

KDR: Maybe i'm not thinking of graphical artists specifically, but *someone* has to render the cut-scene before hand. My intention with that description was that the engine isn't the the one that creates the scene, people do. And I do agree it's the worst type of cut-scene- it lacks the customization of regular cut-scenes and the super high quality of CG cut-scenes, but some games DO use them. I may not be the most knowledgable source on this stuff, but I know those scenes do exist.

MysticGohan · « **Reply #118 on:** May 15, 2003, 09:01:24 PM »

Hey Mouse, the arguement of FMV- rendered and pre-rendered cutscenes had me thinking of what was done in EA's LOTR:The Two Towers game. Which used both FMV and ingame cutscenes and smooth transitions from fmv to ingame and Pre-rendered. it's obvious that alot of stuff had to be animated before time while using hardware of a console and CGI produced by a CGI artist. I won't pretend to know all of this, but I can spot CGI from ingame and pre-rendered, CGI has a very smooth look "depending who's programming it ala Square" it looks unatural, usually it's easy to spot it in movies or anything in movies that use CGI in live action movies etc.

I love them all regardless, I very much enjoyed FFVII not only for the gameplay but FMV, it was awesome it was the first I saw something that good with a sci-fi fantasy feeling.

Anyway it's good to hear that 3/4 GBA's will not be needed to play FF:CC I rather have it be an option than utmost necessary to play co-op with people. I will use the GBA for my advantage since I have it, but as I've pointed out. It's my only one and that's all that will be able to use while playing co-op.

as long as my idea about people using the other 3GCN controllers to play than that works for me, as I'll be able to have 4 players. I hope this will be in the finale game. I would love muiltiple GBA's but perhaps down the road when I can afford more. but what's the advantage of the GBA?

Mario · « **Reply #119 on:** May 15, 2003, 09:53:55 PM »

At the risk of sounding like a total n00b, i have a question to ask. Is FF:CC playable with one person? Like if i had only one controller and no GBAs, would i be able to play it? It looks to me like this is a multiplayer only game...

KDR_11k · « **Reply #120 on:** May 15, 2003, 10:03:20 PM »

All sources say there is a singleplayer mode and it does not require any GBAs.

Mario · « **Reply #121 on:** May 15, 2003, 10:08:30 PM »

Phew, thanks for clearing that up

Has anyone seen the trailer from Nintendo's official website? It looks awesome, great graphics and art style and it looks really fun. I'll definately be getting this game!

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Author Topic: FF:CC needs more than one GBA? (Read 27455 times)