Author Topic: Making the Review Process Better  (Read 26296 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2009, 06:12:14 AM »
Quote
Golden Phoenix, to review every single game for NWR Stogi?

Yes!
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2009, 06:50:04 AM »
Wait, did we actually have proponents of a "quality rating"?

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2009, 06:56:32 AM »
First of all, calm down. I guess we didn't agree after all? Now, where do I begin?

Of course, to have one person review everything is highly inpractical and serves little purpose for those who disagree with their stances on a basic level... would you like...say, Golden Phoenix, to review every single game for NWR Stogi?

I may disagree with GP on a lot of issues, but not games. I understand what you mean and yet, you don't. Even if I disagreed with GP's reviews 100%, I still know where she stands. So if she says a game is horrible, I'll be sure to check it out.

Quote
Take, for example, my movies collection. I have a whole range of movies of all different genres. Some of them I will readily admit are better than others. But the "best movies" aren't necessarily the ones I always pull out to watch. If I think a movie is worth four stars, but watch a two star movie way more often, does that make my personal evaluation of their respective qualities invalid? Or is quality of movie a separate issue from how much utility you can get from it?

Uhhh, we're in agreement. Just cuz a movie might be of a better quality, it doesn't mean that it's your favorite. Your still being you, and thus congruent.

Quote
Should a "quality rating" refer to end-user utility? To artistic value? To a lack of defects? Should it account for innovation? Uniqueness? A comparison to other efforts of its sort? Should it account for mood, taste, temperament, politics, social atmosphere, timeliness? Heck, should contributing factors like packaging or special features play a role? Say yes to more than one of these and already the equation for evaluating something becomes inherently complex and inherently unstable, especially over any extended period of time, even for just one person.

Ok, I see where you went with this. And your proving my point. Giving a game or movie a number or letter is flawed from its conception. However, it is still less flawed when one person shares their opinion on everything, rather than many people sharing their opinions on somethings. No matter how much your opinion changes over the years, it's still ONE opinion.

Quote
Golden Phoenix, to review every single game for NWR Stogi?

Yes!

LOL
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 06:59:04 AM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline shammack

  • "This space intentionally left blank."
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2009, 07:54:37 AM »
Even if it IS just one person reviewing everything, if you point out an incongruency, the reviewer will just be like, "but the scores aren't meant to be compared to other scores!"  Which renders them meaningless.

I still support the ice cream flavor-based scoring system.

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2009, 08:53:02 AM »
I find that unless I seriously disagree with the reviewer's position (which is rare) the score is a good guide for how much I should pay for a game at most (of course I factor my own interest level in as well). Also no matter how positive the review sounds if the score is bad that usually means the game really is bad and the reviewer just failed to express it.

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2009, 01:06:59 PM »
First of all, calm down. I guess we didn't agree after all? Now, where do I begin?

Huh? Don't worry Stogi. I wasn't arguing with you. I was just elaborating on further points!... I can see how it's confusing  because I added the first paragraph about Golden right before the post went up. Originally, my post started with "Heck, and even then" in which case it would be much clearer that I was agreeing with you and adding onto your statements.

Of course, to have one person review everything is highly inpractical and serves little purpose for those who disagree with their stances on a basic level... would you like...say, Golden Phoenix, to review every single game for NWR Stogi?

I may disagree with GP on a lot of issues, but not games. I understand what you mean and yet, you don't. Even if I disagreed with GP's reviews 100%, I still know where she stands. So if she says a game is horrible, I'll be sure to check it out.

Hmm.. yeah, I can see what you mean. That's how I am with movie critic Mick LaSalle: when he reviewed a movie I was able to tell if I'd like it or not independently of whether he liked it or not. Sometimes we agreed. Many times we didn't. But agreement never mattered, just my trust in him to write all I needed to form a preliminary judgement.

But this brings me back to my earlier post in this thread about deconstructionism. I find that I can relate better the better the reviewer manages to deconstruct the game dispassionately in their reviews. Even if I can translate a reviewer's opinion to my different tastes, I need to be able to trust them to have detailed all the aspects of a game appropriately that I can have specific reasons as to why the reviewer might have not enjoyed a game, but where I might, or vice verse.

If they don't do a good job of offering specific examples over which we may agree or disagree, I find that merely knowing how I differ from that person isn't very helpful in formulating my own stance.

Of course, I find this whole happy situation to be rare. I don't know if Mick LaSalle still writes reviews for the SF Chronicle.... all the reviews I read in Sacramento are from other people, and even in the SF Chronicle there were at least two other move reviewers. Like I said before, it's simply not practical to have one person do everything.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Peachylala

  • Bunk Pass Itch
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2009, 01:20:46 PM »
Hmm... from a previous comment made about the VC rating system, I see that it wouldn't work for normal game reviews (which is: Wii, WiiWare and DS games). Oh well, I like that system because it's right to the point.

HOWEVER, if you guys do change the rating system for your reviews, please PLEASE keep the Pros and Cons. I love those, it gives un-needed sarcasm and I love that!  ;)

Quote
Golden Phoenix, to review every single game for NWR Stogi?

Yes!
Her Starfox Adventures review was great. Vote for GP everyone! or not
Peachy got himself a 360 Slim. ...Yahoo?

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2009, 01:28:38 PM »
Hmm... from a previous comment made about the VC rating system, I see that it wouldn't work for normal game reviews (which is: Wii, WiiWare and DS games). Oh well, I like that system because it's right to the point.

HOWEVER, if you guys do change the rating system for your reviews, please PLEASE keep the Pros and Cons. I love those, it gives un-needed sarcasm and I love that!  ;)

Quote
Golden Phoenix, to review every single game for NWR Stogi?

Yes!
Her Starfox Adventures review was great. Vote for GP everyone! or not

Ewww, I didn't like that review. I really should review some other things, I think the last game I ever reviewed was Zelda: Wind Waker.
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2009, 02:01:20 PM »
I'm not sure deconstructing a game is all that helpful. Sure, you need a description of what it's about but probably not every single mechanic involved (just the ones that affect the quality), a review is not a manual.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2009, 02:15:13 PM »
I'm not sure deconstructing a game is all that helpful. Sure, you need a description of what it's about but probably not every single mechanic involved (just the ones that affect the quality), a review is not a manual.

I actually agree with that. A review should answer points that people may have but have more focus on how well the pieces fit together. Also I like second opinion summaries as well.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 02:31:50 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline Halbred

  • Staff Paleontologist, Ruiner of Worlds
  • NWR Staff
  • Score: 17
    • View Profile
    • When Pigs Fly Returns
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2009, 03:05:14 PM »
I love the pros/cons section. I pray to Cthulhu we never get rid of that.
This would be my PSN Trophy Card, but I guess I can't post HTML in my Signature. I'm the pixel spaceship, and I have nine Gold trophies.

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2009, 03:15:21 PM »
I like it too. I'll pray to Mantorok though.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Justin Nation

  • Programmer, Senior Editor, Daddy
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
    • MAMEiac Gaming
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2009, 03:18:28 PM »
Wow, a topic someone like me can chew on... and maybe once the universe finally gets into alignment I'll be given a chance to expand on things. Anyway, first way back in the day of 64 Source I wrote an article about the topic of how to write good reviews, or an attempt to quantify my vision of it, and it dealt in some ways with this concept. I will tell you, in the 2 sites I was in the core of helping set up (including this one) there was serious discussion about ratings, scores, and how things would work. For a site wanting to score free games unfortunately I'd wager numeric scores are going to be necessary... the companies are out to get their word out and unfortunately for their marketing departments a consensus of 1,000 word + in-depth analytical reviews is harder to shove out there as an accolade as 5 major sites giving it a 9 or above. Sadly as well, whether right or wrong, the vast majority of people out there respond to the scores since it is all they have or can possibly comprehend. Somewhat revealing a bit of my angle to come on the site... for parents, in particular, a score is what drives them to buy the game for their kids.

To add even more complication and depth to this discussion though it is all difficult stuff, especially as you then introduce other factors, like distance. This is something on 64 Source we specifically (for a time) tried to address even with reviews 1 - 2 years after the fact of a same major game we'd reviews. How does an inspirational and incredible game of the moment given accolades out of the gate hold up over time? See something like Super Mario Brothers 3 (eclipsed but still an excellent example of the genre) against something like Goldeneye (loved the game originally but practically worthless beyond nostalgia now as it has been so thoroughly eclipsed). Some games, like movies, or TV, or books, or whatever age like fine wine... others you find have turned to Boones Farm or vinegar. The moment can make a big difference. So that introduces a new dimension. Is it fair to continue to hold something like Goldeyene (really, I loved the game, not bashing it, just it is a great example of a game great at its time more than all time) in as high esteem as other games with the same score that have aged more gracefully? Hell, perhaps games with lower scores that have aged better deserve more credit than GE just for their staying power. So even the power of MetaCritic and other score aggregation sites have only the power to rate games in terms of the here and now. This is especially an important reason to get solid VC and other reviews. Perhaps what was terrific then is well ported and just no longer relevant.

Another way to pee in an already tainted pool (and what my old Editorial really dealt with more) is context. I think moreso than numeric scores, lack of truth in score breakdowns (how many reviews do you see where a 8 game gets 4 sound but 10 graphics or what gave you... I swear 90% or more of reviews all breakdown scores will fall within +/- 1 point of the main score and themselves... is there truth in that?), or other bugaboos is context. Perhaps moreso than ever with the introduction of the Wii and the resurgence of "casual gaming" I really think, though it would make aggregation sites squirm, that game reviews almost need MORE scores.

I think in the old editorial it fell to series (if applicable), genre, and general audience... but perhaps now we need series (if applicable), genre, casual audience, and hardcore audience. Why? Because first if you're not a fan of the series or genre the score needs clarification. Is it transcendent (perhaps ala Smash Brothers for "fighting" as an example)? Is it a great example of the genre but unlikely to convert non-believers? Is it essential to someone who loves the series but still the same core game? Perhaps great for the series lover but a negative to someone outside. So context even in that sense DOES matter and one score for the game utterly fails to take that into account. But look at the Wii. Carnival Games? To the hardcore somewhere between tolerable and absolutely craptacular depending on your tastes. To casual gamers like my relatives (and based on sales, many many more people) who overlook the suspect graphics, dodgy controls, kiddie-pool shallowness... perhaps not the greatest thing since sliced bread but I will tell you that they play it on a regular basis to this day.

Blah, time to split but like I said, I hope to talk about it more with some ideas and once things roll may well put up a revised version of the old Editorial (that I sadly can't find, of course) that explores this problem. Thanks for a compelling discussion folks.
Justin Nation
Resident Dinosaur, Occasional Contributor, Daddy
MAMEiac Gaming
Administrator, The Nintendo Switch Fan Community (Facebook Group)
"People are stupid"

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2009, 04:13:49 PM »
Also what I think scores should take into account is when a sequel comes out that doesn't add much new and is rated lowly for that, a new player coming along wondering which version to get (possibly years later) would then think the original is better despite being inferior if you haven't played either game before and thus the lack of new materialdoewsn't matter.

Offline Justin Nation

  • Programmer, Senior Editor, Daddy
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
    • MAMEiac Gaming
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2009, 05:09:58 PM »
Precisely... an interesting phenomenon if you begin taking into account the genre or series. On the whole the newest Madden may truly be a great game on its own stand-alone merits. However, for people who have followed the series year after year maybe the purchase is less compelling overall since little was added from the previous year. The score should then somehow mean something different things to different people, almost being "qualified" up or down based on some other criteria. So maybe on a given game you'd get an 8 overall but to fans of the series you call a -1 for lack of differentiation. The question then would be what hat does the default review primarily reflect? Probably you'd need to be in the mind of the "mainstream gamer" which I would wager is neither casual or particularly hardcore. That is the "fair" score. Thing is, read people's positive and/or negative reviews of many games and you get a hodge podge. You get rabid fanboys of the series eating the game up despite its shortcomings (*cough* Final Fantasy games for the most part), you get jaded former fans bemoaning a shift they didn't like (see "Cel-da" criticisms for Wind Waker), or you get people who admit they aren't fans of a genre but reviewing a game anyway (perhaps Wii Music is a good example).

So to go from being an average reviewer to a GREAT reviewer it is actually a pretty difficult road. First you (or really, ideally, the site itself) should establish a baseline "audience" the review is geared to in order to ensure that across reviews it is consistent. Then, perhaps, additional content could/should be added to the review to make it clear how you think "wearing another hat" would impact the review. Granted, this nuance would be lost on aggregators but since you established a baseline audience and are consistent towards it at least the primary view is worthwhile. For nuance the aggregator sucks anyway, so screw em.

Thoughts?
Justin Nation
Resident Dinosaur, Occasional Contributor, Daddy
MAMEiac Gaming
Administrator, The Nintendo Switch Fan Community (Facebook Group)
"People are stupid"

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2009, 05:17:09 PM »
Precisely... an interesting phenomenon if you begin taking into account the genre or series. On the whole the newest Madden may truly be a great game on its own stand-alone merits. However, for people who have followed the series year after year maybe the purchase is less compelling overall since little was added from the previous year. The score should then somehow mean something different things to different people, almost being "qualified" up or down based on some other criteria. So maybe on a given game you'd get an 8 overall but to fans of the series you call a -1 for lack of differentiation. The question then would be what hat does the default review primarily reflect? Probably you'd need to be in the mind of the "mainstream gamer" which I would wager is neither casual or particularly hardcore. That is the "fair" score. Thing is, read people's positive and/or negative reviews of many games and you get a hodge podge. You get rabid fanboys of the series eating the game up despite its shortcomings (*cough* Final Fantasy games for the most part), you get jaded former fans bemoaning a shift they didn't like (see "Cel-da" criticisms for Wind Waker), or you get people who admit they aren't fans of a genre but reviewing a game anyway (perhaps Wii Music is a good example).

So to go from being an average reviewer to a GREAT reviewer it is actually a pretty difficult road. First you (or really, ideally, the site itself) should establish a baseline "audience" the review is geared to in order to ensure that across reviews it is consistent. Then, perhaps, additional content could/should be added to the review to make it clear how you think "wearing another hat" would impact the review. Granted, this nuance would be lost on aggregators but since you established a baseline audience and are consistent towards it at least the primary view is worthwhile. For nuance the aggregator sucks anyway, so screw em.

Thoughts?


It is nice to see relatively new posters actually use paragraphs and are articulate!
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline Justin Nation

  • Programmer, Senior Editor, Daddy
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
    • MAMEiac Gaming
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2009, 05:26:20 PM »
It is nice to see relatively new posters actually use paragraphs and are articulate!

Uh, if you would review... in theory I may be one of the oldest possible posters there would be, just not recent.  ;D
Justin Nation
Resident Dinosaur, Occasional Contributor, Daddy
MAMEiac Gaming
Administrator, The Nintendo Switch Fan Community (Facebook Group)
"People are stupid"

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2009, 05:26:59 PM »
It is nice to see relatively new posters actually use paragraphs and are articulate!

Uh, if you would review... in theory I may be one of the oldest possible posters there would be, just not recent.  ;D

I know that, but you don't post enough to be old. :P
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2009, 05:45:52 PM »
Quote
But look at the Wii. Carnival Games? To the hardcore somewhere between tolerable and absolutely craptacular depending on your tastes. To casual gamers like my relatives (and based on sales, many many more people) who overlook the suspect graphics, dodgy controls, I am a terrible poaster. -pool shallowness... perhaps not the greatest thing since sliced bread but I will tell you that they play it on a regular basis to this day.

With something like Carnival Games do people like it because it's a good game of its type and caters to its target audience perfectly or because they're just unaware of something better?  A few years back I read an article by Roger Ebert about kids movies.  As an adult they can be challenging for him to review but some kids movies are good enough that an adult can like them while some are so lazily made that you can tell the studio is intentionally half-assing it on the basis that kids won't notice how bad it is.  I can't remember what movie he used as an example of good kids film (probably something by Pixar) but he shared a story about a conversation he had with someone in an elevator.  The person was talking about taking his kids to one of the Scooby Doo movies.  Ebert said that Scooby Doo was a very poor film and suggested the guy take his family to the good movie instead.  He said they will likely enjoy that film more and probably will be disappointed by Scooby Doo.  The guy blew him off.

I see a parallel between kids films and non-games.  That's not necessarily an insult, it's just that both are examples of something that critics may have a hard time reviewing because they're targeted at an audience that will not have the knowledge and experience of the critic.  Quality still matters.  A kid doesn't have to see crap movies and a non-gamer doesn't have to play crap games.  So I think a harsh review for something like Carnival Games is deserving.  It's a poorly made product and even if you're the target demo there are well made non-games that you will enjoy as well as some well made games.  You likely will enjoy these other options MORE you just don't realize it.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for poor taste and you don't deserve to be swindled by companies that know you don't know better.  Now you shouldn't be a snob either but a critic should be able to point out that something sucks even if the target audience may end up liking it in ignorance.

Though the important thing is who reads reviews?  It isn't the people who buy Carnival Games.  When some really horrible film is number one at the box office all those people that saw it either didn't read any reviews or dismissed the reviews because "critics don't know anything".  Reviews might as well be written for an audience that likes to make informed decisions as they're the only ones that will pay any attention to them.

Offline Justin Nation

  • Programmer, Senior Editor, Daddy
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
    • MAMEiac Gaming
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2009, 06:18:32 PM »
With something like Carnival Games do people like it because it's a good game of its type and caters to its target audience perfectly or because they're just unaware of something better?  A few years back I read an article by Roger Ebert about kids movies.  As an adult they can be challenging for him to review but some kids movies are good enough that an adult can like them while some are so lazily made that you can tell the studio is intentionally half-assing it on the basis that kids won't notice how bad it is.  I can't remember what movie he used as an example of good kids film (probably something by Pixar) but he shared a story about a conversation he had with someone in an elevator.  The person was talking about taking his kids to one of the Scooby Doo movies.  Ebert said that Scooby Doo was a very poor film and suggested the guy take his family to the good movie instead.  He said they will likely enjoy that film more and probably will be disappointed by Scooby Doo.  The guy blew him off.

I see a parallel between kids films and non-games.  That's not necessarily an insult, it's just that both are examples of something that critics may have a hard time reviewing because they're targeted at an audience that will not have the knowledge and experience of the critic.  Quality still matters.  A kid doesn't have to see crap movies and a non-gamer doesn't have to play crap games.  So I think a harsh review for something like Carnival Games is deserving.  It's a poorly made product and even if you're the target demo there are well made non-games that you will enjoy as well as some well made games.  You likely will enjoy these other options MORE you just don't realize it.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for poor taste and you don't deserve to be swindled by companies that know you don't know better.  Now you shouldn't be a snob either but a critic should be able to point out that something sucks even if the target audience may end up liking it in ignorance.

Though the important thing is who reads reviews?  It isn't the people who buy Carnival Games.  When some really horrible film is number one at the box office all those people that saw it either didn't read any reviews or dismissed the reviews because "critics don't know anything".  Reviews might as well be written for an audience that likes to make informed decisions as they're the only ones that will pay any attention to them.

Hehe, I wouldn't defend Carnival Games. I'd still make sure a site score for it (assuming we're talking "average mainstream gamer") pretty bad. Despise the game. Shallow. Crap. Now, for a "casual gamer" I don't think Carnival Games suddenly becomes high art. I do think, however, that the criteria for depth and challenge in the game need to be reconsidered, and thus the score could be qualified, some, for the casual crowd who generally are less concerned with depth and challenge. Still, we are polishing a turd (the Mythbusters proved it could be done afterall)... so maybe with that it could earn an extra point to be fair. How much something would gain or lose would really depend. Well, and also your score could bring it down a point (or maybe even more) for Hardcore gamers, heck, maybe even give it the 1 it deserves for that crowd. You see though, the review would be smarter and stronger because it would speak to each type of gamer and give them advice rather than that type of gamer needing to try so hard to infer or read between the lines.

As for who reads reviews for something like Carnival Games I'd wager not too many but at the same time, given the outright scorn the game generally got from most sites who weren't reviewing for the casual crowd in the least, what incentive do they have to look? Of course we'll hate it, but that doesn't really help them because we're making no even passing attempt to see it in the light they would look at it in. We could still be wrong trying to qualify but at least with the attempt to connect with them we're doing a service that would make us unique... and that could drive hits, relevance, etc. I just see a major problem with reviews being the theory that they're somehow written for everyone when they couldn't possibly be. Ideally someone would at least try to address this, and the community could be better for it.
Justin Nation
Resident Dinosaur, Occasional Contributor, Daddy
MAMEiac Gaming
Administrator, The Nintendo Switch Fan Community (Facebook Group)
"People are stupid"

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2009, 06:34:07 PM »
I actually found Carnival Games quite enjoyable. I'd probably give it a 6.5 or 7. It does a good job of replicating most carnival games and is extremely fun with family. It is no surprise to me it has done so well. Not to mention I hate the stereotype that "we" as in older gamers will not like it because that is flat out not true and once again falls into the realm of elitism. It may SHOCK some of the people here and elsewhere, you can enjoy games like Fallout 3, Mario Galaxy, Mass Effect, and various others and still get lots of fun out of games like Carnival Games, Wii Music, Animal Crossing, and various other more casual focused games.

The hatred for Carnival Games is odd too because the game did NOT get bad reviews, it got average to slightly above average.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 07:00:26 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline Halbred

  • Staff Paleontologist, Ruiner of Worlds
  • NWR Staff
  • Score: 17
    • View Profile
    • When Pigs Fly Returns
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2009, 07:06:42 PM »
See, but now we're all getting into MORE scoring territory. And we seem to be giving scores just for aggregators. Like Justin said, screw 'em. My review for Phantom Hourglass is but one of MANY on an aggregator, and I doubt my 7.5 shoved the average down to back-breaking levels. While I understand that aggregators exist, we as reviewers have no control over that, and we shouldn't write with aggregators in mind.

And Ian is right--who reads reviews? My friend, who I discuss in the opening paragraph of the blog, does NOT. He goes to me, or the back of the box. He's not going to look up Far Cry 2 on IGN. I think a lot of people are like that. I'm not writing for those people, necessarily, I'm writing for people who actively seek out information on a game they're considering purchasing.*

*Which leads me to wonder why we bother reviewing games like Homie Rollerz.

And as gamers, we share a common language. When I read about a fellow gamer's experience with a game, in some vague way, I share it. And that narration lets me know whether I'll enjoy the game or not. A final score or a "parting shot" is a nice wrap-up, but you should be reading the review, not looking at the numbers.
This would be my PSN Trophy Card, but I guess I can't post HTML in my Signature. I'm the pixel spaceship, and I have nine Gold trophies.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #72 on: January 06, 2009, 07:11:14 PM »
See, but now we're all getting into MORE scoring territory. And we seem to be giving scores just for aggregators. Like Justin said, screw 'em. My review for Phantom Hourglass is but one of MANY on an aggregator, and I doubt my 7.5 shoved the average down to back-breaking levels. While I understand that aggregators exist, we as reviewers have no control over that, and we shouldn't write with aggregators in mind.

And Ian is right--who reads reviews? My friend, who I discuss in the opening paragraph of the blog, does NOT. He goes to me, or the back of the box. He's not going to look up Far Cry 2 on IGN. I think a lot of people are like that. I'm not writing for those people, necessarily, I'm writing for people who actively seek out information on a game they're considering purchasing.*

*Which leads me to wonder why we bother reviewing games like Homie Rollerz.

And as gamers, we share a common language. When I read about a fellow gamer's experience with a game, in some vague way, I share it. And that narration lets me know whether I'll enjoy the game or not. A final score or a "parting shot" is a nice wrap-up, but you should be reading the review, not looking at the numbers.

Well like I said it is silly to pigeon hole readers. I have no doubt I am not the only so called "core" gamer that enjoys more casual games as wel. So my best advice is to write to whoever you want and chances are you will catch someone's attention. BTW your review on PH was the best.
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #73 on: January 06, 2009, 07:18:40 PM »
Quote
still get lots of fun out of games like Carnival Games, Wii Music, Animal Crossing, and various other more casual focused games.

You are being so MEAN to Animal Crossing by putting it with that company. ;)

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Making the Review Process Better
« Reply #74 on: January 06, 2009, 07:25:11 PM »
It is nice to see relatively new posters actually use paragraphs and are articulate!

Wow, you managed to get on GP's good side!

Hehe, I wouldn't defend Carnival Games. I'd still make sure a site score for it (assuming we're talking "average mainstream gamer") pretty bad. Despise the game. Shallow. Crap.

Wow, you managed to get on her bad side too...

J/k

As someone who bought Carnival games wholly on GP's recommendation (and despite the game not catching my interest before really), I must say that it does not deserve the intense negativity it generates. It may not be high art, but it has a carnival micro game appeal... But let's not get into that again...
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.