Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: NovaQ on June 04, 2009, 11:23:44 AM
Title: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NovaQ on June 04, 2009, 11:23:44 AM
Back in 2008, Iwata gave a vague and near-useless "reveal" that the Zelda team was working on something after Twilight Princess' release. Finally, at E3 2009, Miyamoto gave a more concrete confirmation of another Zelda for Wii during his roundtable discussion. He gave very little info other than these tidbits (gleaned from Jonny Mett's writeup (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=18728)):
-Players will again control Link to explore dungeons on his next adventure.
-The game will be released in 2010 at the earliest, though 2011 is more likely.
-The game will use Motion Plus, and may even require it (will this depend on how well Wii Sports Resort and MotionPlus sell?) EDIT: Miyamoto has clarified in a Wired.com interview (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/zelda-wii-motionplus/) by saying the goal is to make Motion Plus "required."
-The archery and swordplay controls from Wii Sports Resort may give a good indication of how some of the new Zelda's controls will work.
No footage was shown, despite Miyamoto's hopes that something would be ready for the show. There was, however, a piece of concept art, which was not supposed to be captured by camera (but of course was anyway in very blurry form (EDIT: excellent quality image nabbed!)):
The next day at E3, Miyamoto had an interview with IGN (http://wii.ign.com/articles/991/991714p1.html) and revealed that this new Zelda would not be directly connected with Twilight Princess. He also made sure to point out that Link is carrying no sword in the image. Interesting...
All sorts of speculation has been going on ever since on several threads throughout the site. What say ye all we do some consolidatin'? Bring your new Wii Zelda ideas / hopes / doubts and any further updates or rumors here.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: Caterkiller on June 04, 2009, 12:09:45 PM
I am all for 1:1 sword play controls. I expect for the casuals out there defeating most villans would be a matter of just hacking away. But for us I am absolutely certain an awesome system will be created for the people really looking for challenge. Things like, you can only stab at the opponents giant eye because its thick skin/armor wont allow anything else. Or what about ways to parry an enemies blow and making them fall off balance, without the use of a special action button? The combat will probably take a dramatic leap, but still be simple enough that its not about sword fighting and any dummy can get it.
Oh hey look, Link is right handed again! Get your torches!
A mixture of the realistic pluss artsy cartoon style like an awesome painting would do the series well I think. I am just so sick of everything looking exactly the same. If Samus wasn't such an odd choice in "robot color" I probably wouldn't like they way Other M looks as well, same goes for her colorful enemies.
Maybe that orange door way is some portal that Link steps in and thats where the game controls itself when you get lost? In game it would be explained as the legends of the past posses Link to guide him through his adventure. Just you wait, this Link is going to be old and incompitent.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: NovaQ on June 04, 2009, 12:47:50 PM
I agree very much with your painting idea. I think it would be a great aesthetic change of pace and help this title become more distinct. It could be a fantastic way to convey the sense of it all being part of some old legend, too. And just think of what could be done with any magic effects (animations) taking on paint-like qualities. Transitions, too: the title screen could be a still painting that comes to life when you begin a new game, and the file select screen could have the same effect with mini-paintings from whatever part you left off with before saving your progress.
And not to get too crazy about the single, blurry image we have to go off of, but what's up with the cloaked figure? She (he?) seems small and pale. Jonny didn't think it would be Zelda, but who else could it be? Might it be a suggestion of multi-character control, similar to what's being displayed with Spirit Tracks at this year's E3?
Another question: does anyone think the whole game will be in first person, or will it switch the way it has since Ocarina (when you pull out specific items)? Maybe it'll switch when you go into combat for better sword control...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 04, 2009, 02:01:19 PM
Red Steak 2 is successfully applying the Graphic Novel art approach (KIZUNA FAIL'D), so some other 3D-imitating-2D style is definitely achievable.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: Caterkiller on June 04, 2009, 02:10:20 PM
I think it would be much better to stay in 3rd person and have the 1:1 control, I think that would be allot more satisfying for people to play and the fans to just look at.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: broodwars on June 04, 2009, 02:15:06 PM
I think some people may be jumping the gun a bit suggesting that this game will have a watercolor-esque art style just because one concept art image used it. While it would be interesting to see a Zelda game play with such a graphical filter, do we really need any more comparisons to Okami than there already are?
I just can't fathom why Nintendo isn't embracing the chaos of the internet and unleashing a high-res viewable version of this image online. Any hype in their direction is good hype, and all we have to work off is this vague image.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 04, 2009, 02:31:16 PM
Screw water colors, Okami was hard to look at. My eyes had nowhere to focus.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: broodwars on June 04, 2009, 02:36:09 PM
Screw water colors, Okami was hard to look at. My eyes had nowhere to focus.
Looking at footage of the PS2 version a few years back when Okami Wii was coming out, I agree with that. I had no problems focusing on things in the Wii version, though, with the saturated colors and harder edges.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2009, 02:48:20 PM
Screw water colors, Okami was hard to look at. My eyes had nowhere to focus.
I suppose you had a hard time with MadWorld as well?
You people and your inferior optic lenses.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 04, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
MadWorld was great, similar to Viewtiful Joe's application. Okami Wii is like looking thru the windshield during a machine car wash. I can't imagine the PS2 version.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: NovaQ on June 04, 2009, 03:46:44 PM
I think some people may be jumping the gun a bit suggesting that this game will have a watercolor-esque art style just because one concept art image used it. While it would be interesting to see a Zelda game play with such a graphical filter, do we really need any more comparisons to Okami than there already are?
I just can't fathom why Nintendo isn't embracing the chaos of the internet and unleashing a high-res viewable version of this image online. Any hype in their direction is good hype, and all we have to work off is this vague image.
I agree that I'm jumping the gun based on a single blurry image, but the idea/concept is too interesting to me to not mention it. As for Okami, while it emulated Japanese scroll paintings, the art style I'm imagining for the new Zelda would be closer to European or American oil or watercolor works. (I mean, Zelda is a Japanese take on more European-style fantasy, right?)
I think it would be much better to stay in 3rd person and have the 1:1 control, I think that would be allot more satisfying for people to play and the fans to just look at.
I imagine the puzzles could likely be more elaborate and easier to understand if the game kept its 3rd person perspective, too.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2009, 05:20:39 PM
Quote from: NovaQ
I agree that I'm jumping the gun based on a single blurry image, but the idea/concept is too interesting to me to not mention it. As for Okami, while it emulated Japanese scroll paintings, the art style I'm imagining for the new Zelda would be closer to European or American oil or watercolor works. (I mean, Zelda is a Japanese take on more European-style fantasy, right?)
Instead of re-describing what you are referring to, maybe you should find an actual example so people understand. I'm sure google pics has plenty of excellent examples to illustrate your idea.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: ShyGuy on June 04, 2009, 05:51:45 PM
Title: IGN Interiew with Miyamoto
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2009, 09:44:17 PM
2 page interview with IGN (transcript of a video interview - video at link)
Part 1: http://wii.ign.com/articles/991/991714p1.html
Quote from: Matt @ C. IGN
E3 2009: What Happened to Link's Sword?
Shigeru Miyamoto says the next Wii Zelda will see an even older Link... and could he be minus a sword?
June 4, 2009 - IGN's Nintendo Team met with Nintendo's master designer Shigeru Miyamoto at the Electronic Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles this week. The famed creator of the Mario and Zelda franchises spoke about all of the new each series, covered Nintendo's design philosophy, provided a few more details about Pikmin 3 and more. But he also gave us an exclusive hint about the next Zelda for Wii. Exactly what does it mean? We'll let you decide.
IGN: Great seeing you again, Mr. Miyamoto. We know that you have been trying to make your games -- even traditional ones -- appealing to a wider spectrum of audiences. In Hollywood, the same studios might make an R-rated horror movie and also work on a G-rated family movie, specifically targeting two very different demographics. Have you thought about taking this approach with your games and do you think trying to appease all players ultimately dilutes your games?
Shigeru Miyamoto: I consider myself in some respects a writer and as a creator in that vein, I don't really have anything negative to say about my own work, of course. The work that I do generally is just something that appeals to a wider range. I've produced other games that third and second-party games have developed for us that are, as you would say, focused on one particular audience and I have no problem with that whatsoever. I've done that. As to why we don't do that, as for example, Mario Paint, if we just went and honed it down, that would be a game that could be just for artists. Again, I would never say anything bad, maybe, those writers focused on making something for a specific audience, but, you know, one of the problems we face in the gaming industry is that the gaming population is shrinking. There are less people playing games. And one of our goals is to bring that back up. For us, the products that we make really just sort of match that goal naturally, so that's why we are taking that route. To further expound upon that, I think that when we are working with other developers, a lot of times they will try to come and make games that are very Nintendo-esque, and that's something that we actually ask them to stop doing. We say, if you're going to make a game with us, try to make something that really expresses your vision and what you would like to do. So we hope in the future to go ahead and work with people to again make games that are maybe more skewed toward an older audience or a more focused audience.
IGN: At your developer roundtable this week, you showed off a single piece of artwork from the next Wii Zelda game. This piece of art has not yet been released publicly, but we noticed that Link appears to have grown to full adulthood. He looks older than he did in Twilight Princess. Is that a correct assumption?
Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, the story setting for this Zelda is, of course, in a completely different era and Link is older than he was previously. More approaching adulthood. There is one hint. Maybe from the art work you can see that he's not holding a sword.
IGN: Has he lost his Master Sword?
Shigeru Miyamoto: [Laughing] I just wanted to make sure that you understand we are making it. That's all I'm going to say on that subject.
IGN: Does the game follow the story progression of Twilight Princess or is it something completely different?
Shigeru Miyamoto: I can't go into details except to say that it's something completely different.
IGN: You just mentioned that the game audience is shrinking and that Nintendo is always looking for ways to entice new players. Is this something that you're thinking about for the new Zelda, too, or is there a separation where that's off limits because the franchise is traditionally hardcore?
Shigeru Miyamoto: I think we do this with Mario and Zelda as well. When we are working on the plans for them, we are trying to come up with ways where we can satisfy our longtime fans and bring new players into the franchises as well. That's something we're always looking at. However, when I get involved in a title, I focus a lot on more experience and the more advanced gameplay elements. If I get into it, there's a tendency for difficulty levels to ramp up so that's something I really have to watch for myself to make sure that I don't do that.
Title: Miyamoto Interview pg 2
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2009, 09:57:31 PM
Part 2 (Mario Galaxy 2 & Pikmin 3) http://wii.ign.com/articles/991/991714p2.html
Quote from: Matt C. @ IGN
IGN: Twilight Princess obviously started on GameCube and then came to Wii. We remember you saying that the team wanted to do more visually with the game for Wii, but ran out of time. So can we assume the visuals for this new game will set a new bar for Wii graphics?
Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, yeah, again I can't say anything in detail about the graphics in-game or anything like that. But I can tell you, as you just pointed out, that Twilight Princess was developed and ran on both hardwares while this new game will be only on Wii, so I think there are some expectations as to what it will be since we are focused on this console.
IGN: Tell us about the four-player mode in Legend of Zelda: The Spirit Tracks.
Shigeru Miyamoto: Yeah, if you remember in Phantom Hourglass we had that two-player tag. This time we're bringing four people local wireless and there will be some similar sort of tag-like gameplay. I don't want to give too much away about what the gameplay will be, but I think it will be really exciting. And there are some cooperative elements. Remember back to what, maybe, Four Swords' gameplay was like. But you won't be using any swords.
IGN: Onto Super Mario Galaxy 2. We remember a quote from you awhile back where you said that you loved the foundation created for that game, but you wanted to see it taken further. Maybe make it more difficult. Is that true?
Shigeru Miyamoto: I don't know if I want to make it more difficult or more challenging or maybe just more innovative or unique. But there were so many elements that we want to use and so many ideas that we had that we weren't able to implement last time around. So I'm hoping this is just filled with moments where players go, "Oh, hey, that's a great idea. Oh, what an interesting concept that is." And you saw in the videos that drill item that you use to drill through the different platforms and worlds and whatnot, and that's really exciting -- there's a lot of really high-action moments using that to navigate parts of the world.
IGN: We have to ask about Pikmin 3, of course. What happened to it at this year's show? Also, if we've got it right, Pikmin was the last original IP you came up with specifically for traditional gamers. Any idea when we can expect a new so-called hardcore property from you?
Shigeru Miyamoto: In regards to the IP question, I really don't consider Pikmin to be the last original IP. I look at the Miis, the Wii Sports, Nintendogs -- these are all original IPs from me. Even the island in Wii Sports Resort, I'm considering that an IP -- that island itself.
IGN: We're thinking more along the lines of a strictly hardcore title versus those you mentioned, which fall into the casual category, too.
Shigeru Miyamoto: No, I'm all dried up [laughs]. But luckily, there are lots of young and creative people at Nintendo, so I think they're really going to be driving a lot of that new original IP and yeah, we do have a lot of really great stuff that we're thinking about. And in terms of Pikmin, I've always thought of it more of an expanded audience title myself so if a longtime fans think of it as something for them and if our expanded fans think of it as something for them, well, that's great for us.
IGN: What's the status on Pikmin 3?
Shigeru Miyamoto: As you know, this year we've announced a lot of games. Amongst those there are so many that I've been deeply involved with. Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus, Super Mario Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I have just been running around extremely busy. With Pikmin 3, we've got all the basics pretty much done. Now it's just a matter of how do we go in and fill that out? What sort of work do we give our designers? That team has been constantly been moving forward. So with a little time, we'll be able to make more progress and I hope we can bring you something that will make you happy.
IGN: Have you thought about making a Wii game that uses two Wii remotes with MotionPlus?
Shigeru Miyamoto: I think if Wii Sports Resort sells really well, that's something we'd definitely like to think about. Like, table manners.
IGN: We're going to suggest Marionette, the title that popped up on Nintendo release lists a long time ago and then disappeared. You use two Wii remotes to control Mario like a puppeteer.
Shigeru Miyamoto: That puppet team really still wants to work on that so maybe we've got something really cool with that.
IGN: As far as DSiWare and WiiWare, is there anything you would like to do personally on those platforms?
Shigeru Miyamoto: In relation to DSiWare, Flip Note Studio is something I really wanted to do for a long time. I'm working with Mr. [Yoshiaki] Koizumi, who was the director of Super Mario Galaxy and producer of Super Mario Galaxy 2. This is a really, really innovative piece of software that allows you to create your own flip-book style animations. I hope it's got some really great tools that will allow people to be very creative.
IGN: Finally, can you tell us something cool that you haven't told anybody else?
Shigeru Miyamoto: [Laughs] I think I've told you guys stuff already that I haven't told other people. Now this is something that was just announced last night out of Japan. I don't have any solid plans outside of Japan, but we are releasing with Monster Hunter Tri a black Wii. And then there's a classic controller grip.
Thanks to Shigeru Miyamoto for the interview.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: ShyGuy on June 04, 2009, 10:46:59 PM
2 page interview with IGN (transcript of a video interview - video at link)
Part 1: http://wii.ign.com/articles/991/991714p1.html
Quote from: Matt @ C. IGN
E3 2009: What Happened to Link's Sword?
Shigeru Miyamoto says the next Wii Zelda will see an even older Link... and could he be minus a sword?
IGN: At your developer roundtable this week, you showed off a single piece of artwork from the next Wii Zelda game. This piece of art has not yet been released publicly, but we noticed that Link appears to have grown to full adulthood. He looks older than he did in Twilight Princess. Is that a correct assumption?
Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, the story setting for this Zelda is, of course, in a completely different era and Link is older than he was previously. More approaching adulthood. There is one hint. Maybe from the art work you can see that he's not holding a sword.
IGN: Has he lost his Master Sword?
Shigeru Miyamoto: [Laughing] I just wanted to make sure that you understand we are making it. That's all I'm going to say on that subject.
IGN: Does the game follow the story progression of Twilight Princess or is it something completely different?
Shigeru Miyamoto: I can't go into details except to say that it's something completely different.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: mantidor on June 04, 2009, 11:18:16 PM
urgh... right handed link... And you should use "BAM" instead of boom, is the new meme of the week.
If I ever met that casasamasina or whatever guy I'll punch him in the face ok, not really but it would feel sooo good!,"Hey but I want something hardcore, but like hardcore! hardcore!! oooh I'm soooo HaRDCORE!!1". "Hardcore" is now the most retarded gaming term ever, and I love how Miyamoto made his rebuttal and made this idiot realize (or at least ried) that Nintendo doesn't see its games with such stupid divisions, and they actually want the "expanded" and "longtime" audiences to love everything they do, from pikmin to the miis.
As for the art, I'm liking it, and I like all that Miyamoto says about the development, all these things about wanting to involve more the characters and experiences and all that, but then I remember Aonuma talking just like that in TP development and that was a dissapointment. So now actually I'm going in with very low expectations.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on June 04, 2009, 11:46:13 PM
Being online once a day is killing me.....(I see the art on the nintendo press site)
So the girl is Link's sword now? I'm not against turning anything into girl, but come on, just turn Link into a girl and give her whatever magical powers you're planing Miyamoto!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda (TP 2?)
Post by: NovaQ on June 04, 2009, 11:54:08 PM
I agree that I'm jumping the gun based on a single blurry image, but the idea/concept is too interesting to me to not mention it. As for Okami, while it emulated Japanese scroll paintings, the art style I'm imagining for the new Zelda would be closer to European or American oil or watercolor works. (I mean, Zelda is a Japanese take on more European-style fantasy, right?)
Instead of re-describing what you are referring to, maybe you should find an actual example so people understand. I'm sure google pics has plenty of excellent examples to illustrate your idea.
Good idea. I'll look around the Intertubes and see what I can find.
Shy Guy, nice find!! (I've added the new image and a tidbit from BlackNMild2k1's IGN interview to the OP.)
Now, I was wondering about this, but because the original image was so gunky, I saved it. Now, though, Miyamoto has brought it up himself:
Quote from: Miyamoto
Maybe from the art work you can see that he's not holding a sword.
When the original blurry image was posted, I thought Link simply had the Master Sword on his back. Once I heard that it was this strange cloaked girl and that Link didn't have a sword at all, it got me thinking. I wonder if there's any chance that this odd, almost statue-like girl ends up being an embodiment of Link's sword. I suppose, if this were true, it would have more of an effect on the game's story. Maybe there could be some effects on gameplay, though I can't think of any.
I may also be over-speculatin' from this single image.
EDIT: Oh, I guess stevey was thinking the same thing. Plus, with the girl's skin and cloak both being the same color silver, her body looking pointy, and the Master Sword's gem placed on her body, it seems even more likely.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2009, 11:59:23 PM
Link can grab her by her neck and swing her around to break stuff... I see nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 05, 2009, 12:05:09 AM
Technically, I think he'd hold her by the legs. That way he could bash her pointy head against things.
I mean, there will be magic involved. Probly. Heh, heh...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 05, 2009, 12:14:27 AM
So the girl is Link's sword now? I'm not against turning anything into girl, but come on, just turn Link into a girl and give her whatever magical powers you're planing Miyamoto!
It would have been much funnier if instead of a sword the girl was turned into a pair of Link's pointy elf shoes... :D
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 05, 2009, 12:16:44 AM
Link can grab her by her neck and swing her around to break stuff... I see nothing wrong with that.
I can see the lawsuits against Nintendo now when some kid wants to try that out with his little sister which results in serious injury or worse...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 05, 2009, 12:50:59 AM
Wow, nice concept art. I don't know where IGN was getting the impression that this was a much more "mature" Link. He looks the same age to me he looked in Twilight Princess, which was the same age he looked in the Smash Bros. games, which was the same age he looked in Ocarina of Time.
As for the girl, I don't think she's the embodiment of anything or a G'nark/Crystal-style weapon. It strikes me that we've had the Master Sword in the Zelda series ever since Link to the Past, but anyone else wonder who made it? I'm willing to bet the girl is from the race of people who forged the Master Sword, and you may get to meet them in this new Zelda game. She actually reminded me a lot of the look for the Sages in Twilight Princess with those masks they wore.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on June 05, 2009, 01:03:29 AM
Theory 1 <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/1c4ls.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url] Theory 2 <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/289c0lv.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url]
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 05, 2009, 01:08:00 AM
Instead of re-describing what you are referring to, maybe you should find an actual example so people understand. I'm sure google pics has plenty of excellent examples to illustrate your idea.
Now, let's load this thread with even more images. I went looking, and I've found some examples that might help illustrate what I mean by a watercolored game world for this new Zelda:
A (likely simplified) take on this kind of visual style could be fantastic.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 05, 2009, 01:19:26 AM
I like the second picture's style.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on June 05, 2009, 01:43:36 AM
The following post is unrelated to Zelda.
I imagined Mario Sunshine would look something like the third one. Part of that very first trailer made it look like the whole world would be flooded with paint; I wouldn't mind another FLUDDventure if it could take on a deeper sense of gameplay. Maybe Bowser takes control of the sun and starts melting stuff, I just thought that would make more sense in the Mario universe.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 05, 2009, 03:44:38 AM
Theory 1 <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/1c4ls.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url] Theory 2 <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/289c0lv.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url]
Wow, I hadn't even thought about the similarity of the girl to the Great Fairy Queen in Wind Waker. Interesting...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 05, 2009, 04:14:29 AM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 05, 2009, 04:17:35 AM
Have you guys thought maybe she uses Link as a weapon? I just BLEW your minds!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 05, 2009, 05:01:55 AM
nwr asked me if i could use my picture, before the real art appeared everywhere. I could have spent more time on it to make it look like TP art, but first come.....that was a blury pic....as many filters as i ran it through it was hard to pick out details... in the art work links wearing his ocarina wear
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 05, 2009, 07:56:44 AM
Link has the poor girl's decapitated head stuck onto the end of his sword like some macabre trophy! :o
Edit: Also, it appears her head has shrunken somehow. This proves the game includes a head shrinking mini game.... hopefully with M+ support!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Nick DiMola on June 05, 2009, 08:20:42 AM
lol I love that this artwork was released. Our NOA rep hunted me down yesterday telling us to immediately take down the picture. I'm guessing you can thank NWR for this official artwork getting out to the world.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 05, 2009, 08:37:55 AM
lol I love that this artwork was released. Our NOA rep hunted me down yesterday telling us to immediately take down the picture. I'm guessing you can thank NWR for this official artwork getting out to the world.
Sweet, nice work!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on June 05, 2009, 09:30:33 AM
lol I love that this artwork was released. Our NOA rep hunted me down yesterday telling us to immediately take down the picture. I'm guessing you can thank NWR for this official artwork getting out to the world.
Sweet, nice work!
You're work is well appreciated, NWR! Your years of anti-Nintendoism are forgiven. (too bad you guys are never going to another E3 ever again...) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/n64/thrustable2.png)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: kraken613 on June 05, 2009, 09:34:10 AM
^ No, just no Miyomoto roundtables!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on June 05, 2009, 09:45:05 AM
Well, NWR could just send out a press release say the the one who did it was fired. Problem solved.
Going back on topic... Wasn't there artwork shown with Link painting? Maybe this new Zelda is the Zelda Ripoff Ripoff with Link drawing on a piece of transpart paper to summon bombs, slashes, keys, stairs, etc and Mistress Sword makes it happen.
1st of all, I had no idea you could do that. This is the 2nd time I've learned a forum trick by quoting you. Last time was getting giant text in you post on the old forum software, this time I did'nt even notice the trick in your post until I quoted it.
Link can grab her by her neck and swing her around to break stuff... I see nothing wrong with that.
You got a point
Theory 1.b pic
It wouldn't make sense the other way, her neck would have stretch waaay too far to be sword & link would have to stop what he's doing and grab her by her ankles (not as fun as it sounds) to use her.
I not sure what the line of code you got going on in the 2nd part of this post is, so I'm sending you a PM.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ShyGuy on June 05, 2009, 11:44:21 AM
lol I love that this artwork was released. Our NOA rep hunted me down yesterday telling us to immediately take down the picture. I'm guessing you can thank NWR for this official artwork getting out to the world.
Wait, is my photobucket account going to be hit with a cease and desist?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 05, 2009, 12:05:30 PM
I imagined Mario Sunshine would look something like the third one. Part of that very first trailer made it look like the whole world would be flooded with paint; I wouldn't mind another FLUDDventure if it could take on a deeper sense of gameplay. Maybe Bowser takes control of the sun and starts melting stuff, I just thought that would make more sense in the Mario universe.
This is an interesting point. I too hoped that the world covered in paint had a deeper relationship to the gameplay. More than just clean vs. not clean, and more than making the surface slippery so Mario could slide about. The transformation of buildings and structures was a hint towards this direction, but those were mostly canned instances. If Bowser could melt structures, I could see Mario also melting structures or creating supplemental structures to aid his platforming depending on the substance that was sprayed. It already worked in some capacity in Kirby's Canvas Curse, using an ability that's reminiscent of comic book Ice Men who travel on flying frozen sidewalks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 05, 2009, 03:06:56 PM
lol if only we were game developers we could turn that into a game
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 05, 2009, 03:33:20 PM
Oh, right, I think the game was called "Spray" for Wii. lols
This industry is a mess.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 06, 2009, 02:18:35 AM
So do you guys think this game will be more exploration based than recent Zeldas?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 06, 2009, 03:01:53 AM
There will probably be just as much exploring as there ever was Maxi. But something has seriously got to change. I love realistic style, but I like when there is a cartoony ness to the characters, much like TP had, but still something is missing all together. I thought most of the invironments were kinda lame, except for the sky temple. Most everything just looked fairly boring. Don't get me wrong I loved what I went through, I just didn't like to look at much of it. Now Hyrul field on the other hand I loved, and thought it looked great.
Actually now that I think about it, I really liked that Sandy temple, Hyrul castle(liked the way it looked not what was in there to be done, lame!) and going down the river shooting the vases was very magical to me, and that part had the only memorable music in the game.
I can't really think what they will do to make it fresh and unique. Mario is zany enough that they can take him into space and do all these wierd things, and it worked perfectly, I think most would agree on that. But zelda, seems like its stuck in an ancient time period and there is only so much you can do. But you know what, since its fantasy they can go nuts, and I can't wait to see what they come up with.
Anyone else want a way to fly? Like a dragon or owl to ride over the land scape? Its not ground breaking but I think i would be a welcome addition to the zelda universa. But how could you make Epona not obsolete?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 06, 2009, 03:22:39 AM
I think that there was more exploration in the NES and SNES Zeldas.Maybe that had to do with the time those games came out.
Maybe with the transportation you could do something like in the GC Tales game. You start by walking then get Epona later then near the end of the game you get a dragon but Epona is still needed for different areas.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 06, 2009, 03:29:45 AM
or how about Epona gets a magical upgrade late in the game that makes him a Pegasus. You know, you feed Epona a Redbull then all of a sudden he has wings.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 06, 2009, 03:34:01 AM
That's not a bad idea Black N Mild. it would keep in Epona and it would retain the fantasy setting.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 06, 2009, 08:42:19 AM
Link can grab her by her neck and swing her around to break stuff... I see nothing wrong with that.
You got a point
Theory 1.b
OK, so Link will have a fishnet-stocking blade, then.
I've been trying to think how this person-weapon dynamic will work within the game. What kind of gameplay enhancements or challenges might it present? Maybe there will be a different little person for each main weapon in the game and Link will have to make sure they stay safe and accompany him through each dungeon. While that sounds Pikmin-like, for Zelda that seems... kinda dumb. It's all I can think of, though. Any other ideas?
The other possibility is that this sword-girl has no real affect on gameplay and is mostly a plot device to make sure Link has a vocal companion throughout the story. If this is the case, and it's all that was displayed in this early concept art, that suggests to me that the developers may not be changing the Zelda formula much at all. If gameplay comes before story, why would the team be focusing on story elements already unless the gameplay was pretty well locked in place?
It's possible that the art is the result purely of the design team, who may not yet be involved with any gameplay. If not, though, does anyone think that simply having new controls with the same OoT-esque formula will feel fresh enough? I'm not sure if it will (though the living watercolor visual style might be enough to persuade me otherwise).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 06, 2009, 03:56:51 PM
Yeah a Pegesus!(sp?) that would be cool! And it could tie into the game play very well. Mid air battles! They loved to show us the horse back fighting in TP i'm sure they could do great things with mid air fights and bosses. That could add some freshness to the mix. But still its not enough.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 06, 2009, 04:40:12 PM
the gameplay is pretty well locked into place its a zelda game.....you play as link who slashes, picks things up, rolls on occasion, spins, climbs, swims, etc.
right before every level you get a new weapon which will be pivotal fighting the boss, and during the level you'll either have to fight mini bosses, a series of enemies, or solve some puzzle(usually involving your new weapon) to get keys, eventually you'll get a compass, a map of the level, and the master key. You will then fight a boss. There will be a fetch quest which will be fun, a collect-a-thon which probably wont be, and a new thing (ww + Tp) which i enjoy the cave of destiny. Throughout the game there will be side quests that get you hearts, and increase your wallet size.
the only thing that changes in a zelda game are the weapons, which usually have some genius gameplay gimmick, and there will usually be another new main character that will alter game play slightly. Like Midna, Kafei, Zelda, The Masks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 07, 2009, 02:24:33 AM
So what do you guys think the storyline is going to be?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on June 07, 2009, 02:26:01 AM
this http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=28520.msg519596#msg519596
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 07, 2009, 03:31:39 AM
That is so funny Zap. Seriously what do you guys think the storyline is going to be?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 07, 2009, 05:34:36 AM
link saves the princess from ganon or some other evil force
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 07, 2009, 05:00:33 PM
link saves the princess from ganon or some other evil force
You forgot the Spoiler Alert. ;)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caliban on June 07, 2009, 10:43:03 PM
Link needs to collect the remaining 11 Triforce pieces, except for the one he has that was left from his recently deceased older brother, and he has to save Zelda, but in the end he chooses the Master Sword over Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 08, 2009, 12:59:10 AM
weird that such a giant phallus would be a female
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2009, 01:55:55 AM
who said it was female
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ShyGuy on June 08, 2009, 02:13:15 AM
Somebody needs to dig up all the crazy theories the NWR forums had about Twilight Princess. Paging Vudu.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 08, 2009, 07:49:44 AM
My theory is her role is going to be a lot like Midna's was in Twilight Princess.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 08, 2009, 10:45:26 AM
My theory (which i actually don't believe in) is she'll replace the fake navi as the on screen pointer and the reason Link doesnt have the master sword is because he won't need it; he'll have force powers which are relegated to waggle+
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2009, 11:56:57 AM
No, he/she's likely the newest incarnation of the irritating Navi, and the embodiment of Miyamoto's "let the game play itself for lazy or non-gamers" system.
When it's apparent you/Link can't do anything right, she pops out of sword form and shows you what an idiot you are, completing the challenges for you. Since Evil cannot touch himmer/shim, he/she would be invincible on all accounts.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on June 08, 2009, 12:52:17 PM
No, he/she's likely the newest incarnation of the irritating Navi, and the embodiment of Miyamoto's "let the game play itself for lazy or non-gamers" system.
Non-casuals can still fail too. =(
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2009, 01:08:20 PM
Then... you'll finally get to see a Zelda movie with voice acting in that regard.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 08, 2009, 02:24:39 PM
Then... you'll finally get to see a Zelda movie with voice acting in that regard.
And in grand Nintendo tradition it would be some of the worst English VA you've ever heard in a video game (as evidenced by Star Fox Assault and Super Mario Sunshine). If they do implement that, hopefully they'll outsource it like they did when they localized Baten Kaitos Origins because that turned out well.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on June 08, 2009, 02:27:03 PM
Ugh...not again.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 08, 2009, 03:29:39 PM
And in grand Nintendo tradition it would be some of the worst English VA you've ever heard in a video game (as evidenced by Star Fox Assault and Super Mario Sunshine). If they do implement that, hopefully they'll outsource it like they did when they localized Baten Kaitos Origins because that turned out well.
The voice acting in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption was good.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 08, 2009, 04:08:56 PM
While I'm sure that discussing Nintendos past voice acting is exciting it really isn't about the new Zelda game.
So this is likely to use Motion Plus. What Zelda weapons do you think would work well with Motion Plus? Any ideas on a new Zelda weapon that could use Motion+?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 08, 2009, 04:10:59 PM
While I'm sure that discussing Nintendos past voice acting is exciting it really isn't about the new Zelda game.
So this is likely to use Motion Plus. What Zelda weapons do you think would work well with Motion Plus? Any ideas on a new Zelda weapon that could use Motion+?
Screw Lotion Puss, i want the top/spinning weapon back with balance board support!
lol not really but that'd be pretty awesome
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2009, 04:12:04 PM
Retro is a western company. Grand Nintendo Fashion means the chaps in Tokyo or Kyoto handled the matter.
Tho the voicing in Sunshine was arguably good since the game is kiddie like Mario Power Tennis.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on June 08, 2009, 04:35:53 PM
While I'm sure that discussing Nintendos past voice acting is exciting it really isn't about the new Zelda game.
So this is likely to use Motion Plus. What Zelda weapons do you think would work well with Motion Plus? Any ideas on a new Zelda weapon that could use Motion+?
Everything and anything; though I don't think it will be about the weapons, rather tools of adventure.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Sword and shield using M+ precision for advanced slashing and blocking Boomerang, Bow & Arrow, Bombs throwing & fishing with M+ strength and angle detection. Grappling hook using M+ for swinging around your head and throwing. maybe a giant hammer
maybe a lock picking puzzle or two a tightrope walk canoeing on the river to get to the fishing spot projectile/light reflecting from shield
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2009, 05:15:29 PM
Holding Princess Ruto over your head so you can grab her Holy Mackerals.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 08, 2009, 06:35:26 PM
While I'm sure that discussing Nintendos past voice acting is exciting it really isn't about the new Zelda game.
So this is likely to use Motion Plus. What Zelda weapons do you think would work well with Motion Plus? Any ideas on a new Zelda weapon that could use Motion+?
Voice acting has potentially as much to do with this new Zelda as Motion+ does. If we aren't allowed to go "off topic", why should you be allowed to?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 08, 2009, 07:09:02 PM
While I'm sure that discussing Nintendos past voice acting is exciting it really isn't about the new Zelda game.
So this is likely to use Motion Plus. What Zelda weapons do you think would work well with Motion Plus? Any ideas on a new Zelda weapon that could use Motion+?
Voice acting has potentially as much to do with this new Zelda as Motion+ does. If we aren't allowed to go "off topic", why should you be allowed to?
Miyamoto said numerous times that he would like to keep Link's voice to the imagination of the player.I'm sure that is the case with Zelda,Ganondorf and the rest of the NPCs.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on June 08, 2009, 08:07:58 PM
I would love to see a canoe that could be used in any water system.
With regards to voice acting, whenever I see this argument I feel obligated to remind that Link never has any dialogue. So basically it's a moot point for his character, unless they decide to give him something to say.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 08, 2009, 08:25:49 PM
Maybe instead we'll get the hook/clawshot and the return of the ball and chain.
Might there be the return of the shovel? And what about the Lens of Truth (or something like it) that's handled like a real life magnifying glass?
I wonder if Motion Plus could enhance sumo wrestling...
No, that's impossible, Wii is only capable of lame, novel, substance-free, non-standard, game-breaking waggle that will soon fizzle out like disco.
Ah. In that case: waggle to break free from enemy's sumo grapple; waggle to grapple and throw enemy!
You forget waggling the nunchuck and Wiimote separately to do the Sumo Foot-stomping thing, along with using the Wii Speak to cry out "Hero Boy!" for an instant win.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 08, 2009, 08:48:40 PM
Maybe instead we'll get the hook/clawshot and the return of the ball and chain.
Might there be the return of the shovel? And what about the Lens of Truth (or something like it) that's handled like a real life magnifying glass?
I wonder if Motion Plus could enhance sumo wrestling...
No, that's impossible, Wii is only capable of lame, novel, substance-free, non-standard, game-breaking waggle that will soon fizzle out like disco.
Ah. In that case: waggle to break free from enemy's sumo grapple; waggle to grapple and throw enemy!
You forget waggling the nunchuck and Wiimote separately to do the Sumo Foot-stomping thing, along with using the Wii Speak to cry out "Hero Boy!" for an instant win.
If only Nintendo ever gave themselves time to implement Wii Speak into their games...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 08, 2009, 08:50:45 PM
Maybe instead we'll get the hook/clawshot and the return of the ball and chain.
Might there be the return of the shovel? And what about the Lens of Truth (or something like it) that's handled like a real life magnifying glass?
I wonder if Motion Plus could enhance sumo wrestling...
No, that's impossible, Wii is only capable of lame, novel, substance-free, non-standard, game-breaking waggle that will soon fizzle out like disco.
Ah. In that case: waggle to break free from enemy's sumo grapple; waggle to grapple and throw enemy!
You forget waggling the nunchuck and Wiimote separately to do the Sumo Foot-stomping thing, along with using the Wii Speak to cry out "Hero Boy!" for an instant win.
If only Nintendo ever gave themselves time to implement Wii Speak into their games...
Unfortunately, the Wii just doesn't have the processing power to implement it. It would create a paradox that would destroy the entire universe! On the other hand, we could just get knocked out. Granted, that's a worst case scenario...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 08, 2009, 08:53:36 PM
Maybe instead we'll get the hook/clawshot and the return of the ball and chain.
Might there be the return of the shovel? And what about the Lens of Truth (or something like it) that's handled like a real life magnifying glass?
I wonder if Motion Plus could enhance sumo wrestling...
No, that's impossible, Wii is only capable of lame, novel, substance-free, non-standard, game-breaking waggle that will soon fizzle out like disco.
Ah. In that case: waggle to break free from enemy's sumo grapple; waggle to grapple and throw enemy!
You forget waggling the nunchuck and Wiimote separately to do the Sumo Foot-stomping thing, along with using the Wii Speak to cry out "Hero Boy!" for an instant win.
If only Nintendo ever gave themselves time to implement Wii Speak into their games...
Unfortunately, the Wii just doesn't have the processing power to implement it. It would create a paradox that would destroy the entire universe! On the other hand, we could just get knocked out. Granted, that's a worst case scenario...
Wii development progress goes "boink"
...Right, so, any other Motion Plus ideas?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on June 08, 2009, 08:57:41 PM
I have a few, but I think I'll compile them with some interesting scenarios and gameplay mechanics.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 08, 2009, 09:05:18 PM
I'd like to see a return of actual magic in the next Zelda ala Zelda II or even item-based spells like in Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time. When you use them, you use Wii Motion Plus to draw magical symbols in the air ala what Dragon Quest Swords tried to do to perform the incantations. The game usually stops anyway when you use such items and players probably would rarely use them, so why not?
I'd also like to see the return of the Magnet gloves from Oracle of Seasons, which you'd use the pointer to select a magnetic object with maybe twisting the remote or whatnot to perform reverse polarity.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on June 09, 2009, 03:41:58 AM
Magnet Gloves + Iron Boots = Disaster!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 09, 2009, 12:14:10 PM
You fools link has spoken and in of the more recent games as well. Remember that temple where you take control of the statue in WW? To call it over Link would actually yell "Over here!" I remember when WW first came out, no seemed to care about that but me. He abviously wont ever be saying much else, but that was voice acting for sure!
Anyone mention using the grappling hook to hook on to items and smaller enemies and actually swing them around? That sounds motion plussariffic!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 09, 2009, 12:17:01 PM
Dismembering enemies based on swing angle.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 09, 2009, 12:32:17 PM
Return of that one specific mask from MM.. was it the Kamaro mask or something like that?
I just want Link to be able to don the mask, and via the power of Motion+ wave my hands around for him to perform that awesome dance!
Yeah, I think that was Kamaro.
...Hey, that gives me an idea: what if, instead of learning new songs for various purposes, you learn specific dances? I'm... actually being serious, I think. It could be be a really fun change of pace, especially since Wind Waker already used a baton and OoT already used something similar to a flute (which would be the most obvious/intuitive choices for the Wiimote).
Are there any ideas for a specific instrument or set of instruments for Link to use this time around? I imagine that Nintendo's experience with Wii Music has left the Zelda team with all sorts of possibilities.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 10, 2009, 02:25:25 PM
I think in regards to inventory and what ideas can be done with Motion+ I think Nintendo should not feel obligated to putting in the same items again and again. I would say shield and sword are the only two that need to be there (and maybe the sword isn't even in this one). Even really familiar items like the boomerang, bow and hookshoot should be considered optional. Nintendo should not feel the need to put these in just to meet Zelda "requirements". Just brainstorm some cool ideas and some create items to wrap these ideas around. And if this means the traditional items are there or not it shouldn't matter.
What truly defines Zelda? What do you need to ensure that Zelda still feels like Zelda? I say the game has to have an open expansive world you can fully explore. It's not a level based game for example. All interaction is in real-time. "Power-ups" that you find are permanent. Not all characters you encounter are enemies and not all areas pose a threat (a major difference from Metroid which is like one huge Zelda dungeon). There is a combination of puzzle solving and action, not just one or the other.
With that definition of Zelda there is a LOT that Nintendo can do. So they should take that into account and not feel that they have to include this or that to please the fans. If Link's Awakening can exist and be quite popular without Zelda, Ganon, Hyrule or the Triforce in it then Nintendo doesn't have to treat each game like fan service.
So they should go for broke. I just want them to promise to make the best game they can in a reasonable time frame and budget.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 10, 2009, 05:17:34 PM
Return of that one specific mask from MM.. was it the Kamaro mask or something like that?
I just want Link to be able to don the mask, and via the power of Motion+ wave my hands around for him to perform that awesome dance!
Yeah, I think that was Kamaro.
...Hey, that gives me an idea: what if, instead of learning new songs for various purposes, you learn specific dances? I'm... actually being serious, I think. It could be be a really fun change of pace, especially since Wind Waker already used a baton and OoT already used something similar to a flute (which would be the most obvious/intuitive choices for the Wiimote).
Are there any ideas for a specific instrument or set of instruments for Link to use this time around? I imagine that Nintendo's experience with Wii Music has left the Zelda team with all sorts of possibilities.
So instead of masks or songs, link can do ritualistic dances to perform magic or so? I'd try it. With the idea floating around that Link might not have a sword this time, perhaps he'll have more magic at his disposal than ever before or stupid martial arts skills to make this The Legend Of Zelda: Other Z and have tons of ACTION!. The different dance moves can creat a diff. fighting style for new BARE HANDED MATURE LINK
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2009, 05:29:09 PM
Return of that one specific mask from MM.. was it the Kamaro mask or something like that?
I just want Link to be able to don the mask, and via the power of Motion+ wave my hands around for him to perform that awesome dance!
Yeah, I think that was Kamaro.
...Hey, that gives me an idea: what if, instead of learning new songs for various purposes, you learn specific dances? I'm... actually being serious, I think. It could be be a really fun change of pace, especially since Wind Waker already used a baton and OoT already used something similar to a flute (which would be the most obvious/intuitive choices for the Wiimote).
Are there any ideas for a specific instrument or set of instruments for Link to use this time around? I imagine that Nintendo's experience with Wii Music has left the Zelda team with all sorts of possibilities.
So instead of masks or songs, link can do ritualistic dances to perform magic or so? I'd try it. With the idea floating around that Link might not have a sword this time, perhaps he'll have more magic at his disposal than ever before or stupid martial arts skills to make this The Legend Of Zelda: Other Z and have tons of ACTION!. The different dance moves can creat a diff. fighting style for new BARE HANDED MATURE LINK
And it can all be done using M+ and the Balance board so that you actually have to dance around....
....ummm, how about no.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 10, 2009, 05:41:09 PM
might wanna fix your post before you go putting down peoples clearly stupid ideas ;)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2009, 05:45:32 PM
might wanna fix your post before you go putting down peoples clearly stupid ideas ;)
"Clearly stupid"? Buh? Hey I'm telling you, The Legend of DanceDance: Link's Dancewakening is going to be the shot in the arm that the series has been in need of for years.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 12, 2009, 09:31:58 AM
might wanna fix your post before you go putting down peoples clearly stupid ideas ;)
"Clearly stupid"? Buh? Hey I'm telling you, The Legend of DanceDance: Link's Dancewakening is going to be the shot in the arm that the series has been in need of for years.
That was meant more towards me originating the idea, not a jab at you. I find it hilarious.
This might be the closest thing Plugabugz gets to his Beyonce Bootylicious Dance thingamajiger
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 12, 2009, 11:35:55 PM
might wanna fix your post before you go putting down peoples clearly stupid ideas ;)
"Clearly stupid"? Buh? Hey I'm telling you, The Legend of DanceDance: Link's Dancewakening is going to be the shot in the arm that the series has been in need of for years.
I like it...then again I am a glutton for DDR games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 14, 2009, 08:55:55 AM
might wanna fix your post before you go putting down peoples clearly stupid ideas ;)
"Clearly stupid"? Buh? Hey I'm telling you, The Legend of DanceDance: Link's Dancewakening is going to be the shot in the arm that the series has been in need of for years.
If that "shot in the arm" looks something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDbBhks7F0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edestructoid%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDbBhks7F0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edestructoid%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded), then I think I'll pass.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 14, 2009, 04:06:02 PM
might wanna fix your post before you go putting down peoples clearly stupid ideas ;)
"Clearly stupid"? Buh? Hey I'm telling you, The Legend of DanceDance: Link's Dancewakening is going to be the shot in the arm that the series has been in need of for years.
If that "shot in the arm" looks something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDbBhks7F0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edestructoid%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDbBhks7F0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edestructoid%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded), then I think I'll pass.
Come on. That was freaking amazing. I loved it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: kraken613 on June 15, 2009, 11:11:22 PM
Motion+ will be needed it looks like.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/994/994637p1.html
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 16, 2009, 03:26:09 AM
It fucking should be!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 16, 2009, 10:32:14 AM
Further quotes of interest from the Wired interview that IGN referenced (and BlackNMild2k1 posted elsewhere):
Quote from: Wired.com
“The goal at this point is that we would make Wii MotionPlus required in order to play Zelda,” he said.
It’s reasonable to assume that Zelda’s use of MotionPlus might depend on how many of the devices Nintendo sells between now and the game’s far-off release date. But Miyamoto says that’s not actually the case.
“The bigger hurdle for us is not really whether people have a Wii MotionPlus or don’t have it, it’s whether or not the experience is one where people will think they want to have a Wii Motion Plus in order to experience it,” he said.
Quote from: Wired.com
Miyamoto went on to say that the game is still in a rougher state of development, which is why Nintendo declined to show any of it at E3.
“The development of Zelda has been focused strictly on the gameplay structure at this point. We haven’t devoted much in the way of efforts to things like graphical representation, and story, and those types of production elements,” he said.
So much for my suspicions (hopes) about a living painting for the game world. Also, it looks like Ms. Pointy-head-sword-girl is mostly a gameplay mechanic at this point. Hmm...
The article concludes with Miyamoto guessing that the game will need to wait until 2011 for release to avoid previously unveiled "heavy hitters" Galaxy 2 and Metroid: Other M in 2010, though I'd expect the development hiccups and readjustments that seem inherent in a project like Zelda would push the game's release to 2011 anyway.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 16, 2009, 02:10:54 PM
Maybe Link's sword is actually a character in this one and it can transform into the "pointy-headed-sword-girl"?
I remember some of the legends of King Arthur where his sword sang.
Also some Korean legends tell of swords speaking, possesing and emposering people for great deeds.
So this 'Sword Spirit' could pop up out of the sword (or transform) and talk to you Midna/Navi style to further story or explain matters.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 16, 2009, 02:19:42 PM
"I remember some of the legends of King Arthur where his sword sang."
That was an episode of Muppet Babies, not a legend.
And annoying talking swords were already done in Sonic and the Awesome Knight.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 16, 2009, 02:23:24 PM
Maybe link goes on a hallucinogenic trip (bad mushrooms from the mushroom kingdom?) and now he imagines his sword talking to him.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 16, 2009, 02:30:36 PM
i love killer7
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: decoyman on June 16, 2009, 02:38:50 PM
Stratos, I like your typo a lot.
Emposering = enabling the skills of the poser
*pulls out skateboard, faux-hawks hair, tries to look tough*
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 16, 2009, 02:57:51 PM
*pulls out skateboard, faux-hawks hair, tries to look tough*
LOL, since my computer died I have to use other peoples until I get a new one and other people in my family do not use FireFox. I didn't realize until now how much I rely on FireFox's spellcheck feature until I lost the ability to use it. My grammar and spelling are suffering because of it :/ While I'm no grammar/spelling nazi, I do prefer my own posts to be as correct and clear as possible so it drives me nuts I can't check it. If I really doubt my spelling I copy my text into Word and check it there now.
Emposering is now a new word. Let's define it: Empowering someone to be a Poser. Link's sword makes him a Poser?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 16, 2009, 03:15:31 PM
Maybe link goes on a hallucinogenic trip (bad mushrooms from the mushroom kingdom?) and now he imagines his sword talking to him.
That, or in his hallucination he imagines that some innocent girl is his sword...
Girl: "Somebody help!"
Black Dynamite: "Shut up! Swords don't talk"
Girl: "I'm not a sword! Let me goooooo!"
Black Dynamite: "I don't hear you. LA LA LA LA LA LA" *swings sword* smack smack smack
Black Dynamite: "BITCH, BE COOL."
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: carolina17 on June 17, 2009, 02:16:29 AM
The New Zelda Wii should be compatible only with Motion Plus add-on. Check this article at Eurogamer.net (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/new-zelda-to-require-wii-motionplus-add-on) for more info. I look forward to playing this game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ShyGuy on June 17, 2009, 03:03:21 AM
Mario already did the sentient weapon with Fludd in Sunshine. This game rips off Miyamoto.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 17, 2009, 05:17:39 AM
i wonder if the sword sings?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u8wBfDtZkE
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 17, 2009, 05:19:08 PM
Link's sword is the new Ocarina.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 18, 2009, 10:03:18 AM
Or this. ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDbBhks7F0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edestructoid%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDbBhks7F0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edestructoid%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 22, 2009, 08:44:17 PM
No, he/she's likely the newest incarnation of the irritating Navi, and the embodiment of Miyamoto's "let the game play itself for lazy or non-gamers" system.
When it's apparent you/Link can't do anything right, she pops out of sword form and shows you what an idiot you are, completing the challenges for you. Since Evil cannot touch himmer/shim, he/she would be invincible on all accounts.
Hay guy, you've just described Miyamoto's HERUPU SHISUTEMU!!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on June 23, 2009, 10:54:32 AM
I hate when interviewers forget the all important question, is Link going to be left handed or what? with the motion + thing is an actually important question for the gameplay experience of left handed people, which was actually iirrelevant for the lazy and dumb mirroring of TP. Its funny Aonuma and Miyamoto thinking that was an awesome idea for a game without actual motion, only waggle.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 23, 2009, 11:43:11 AM
I'm not sure why left-handed people, like myself, would want to use the Nunchuck in their right hand after controlling analog sticks and d-pads with their left-thumb for over 20 years.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 23, 2009, 11:54:57 AM
I'm not sure why left-handed people, like myself, would want to use the Nunchuck in their right hand after controlling analog sticks and d-pads with their left-thumb for over 20 years.
Cuz you're the only left-handed person that ISNT evil
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 23, 2009, 11:56:53 AM
I bat right, shoot right, and ninja right.
I'm right-eye-dominant, so hand bias really has little to with it
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 23, 2009, 05:28:34 PM
I'm not sure why left-handed people, like myself, would want to use the Nunchuck in their right hand after controlling analog sticks and d-pads with their left-thumb for over 20 years.
Cuz you're the only left-handed person that ISNT evil
Hey! I represent that! What do you have against us south-paws?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ShyGuy on June 23, 2009, 05:35:44 PM
I'm left handed and I trained myself to Mouse right and Waggle right.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 23, 2009, 06:03:58 PM
I'm less concerned with Link's handedness than all of the baddies'. Flipping everything in TP created a highly unlikely world of lefties, and that bothered me more than anything else about it. The good news, I suppose, is that making Link right-handed without screwing up the rest of the world might require changing the combat system every 3D Zelda has used so far.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 24, 2009, 04:04:19 AM
I'm not sure why left-handed people, like myself, would want to use the Nunchuck in their right hand after controlling analog sticks and d-pads with their left-thumb for over 20 years.
Cuz you're the only left-handed person that ISNT evil
Hey! I represent that! What do you have against us south-paws?
You're all sinister.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 24, 2009, 09:18:08 AM
I hate when interviewers forget the all important question, is Link going to be left handed or what? with the motion + thing is an actually important question for the gameplay experience of left handed people, which was actually iirrelevant for the lazy and dumb mirroring of TP. Its funny Aonuma and Miyamoto thinking that was an awesome idea for a game without actual motion, only waggle.
If you look at the concept art again, you'll see that Link has the shield in his left hand, which leaves his right hand open for his girl-sword.
But like PartBear said, at least the game world won't have to be mirrored, which in TP left me with a persistent, slightly unsettled feeling about the game's presentation.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 24, 2009, 11:46:47 AM
Yeah it felt like Bizarro World.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 24, 2009, 01:30:12 PM
Dogs and cats, living together - mass hysteria!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 24, 2009, 05:58:10 PM
I'm not sure why left-handed people, like myself, would want to use the Nunchuck in their right hand after controlling analog sticks and d-pads with their left-thumb for over 20 years.
I'm right-handed but I've never had any problem playing with my left thumb. I wouldn't say the same with the Nintendo DS stylus.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 24, 2009, 08:40:08 PM
I'm not sure why left-handed people, like myself, would want to use the Nunchuck in their right hand after controlling analog sticks and d-pads with their left-thumb for over 20 years.
I'm right-handed but I've never had any problem playing with my left thumb. I wouldn't say the same with the Nintendo DS stylus.
The DS can be worlds of difficult for lefties. Four buttons < D-Pad for FPS games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2009, 09:22:58 PM
So, who wants to wager that Retro Studios will be making this game? Just a guess...but I wouldn't be surprised.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 24, 2009, 10:05:43 PM
I thought SK was.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 24, 2009, 10:08:56 PM
I'm not sure why left-handed people, like myself, would want to use the Nunchuck in their right hand after controlling analog sticks and d-pads with their left-thumb for over 20 years.
I'm right-handed but I've never had any problem playing with my left thumb. I wouldn't say the same with the Nintendo DS stylus.
Right, it's like getting accustomed to being a driver on the left side of the car in Amerikaland as opposed to right-side in Euroland. Everybody simply already learned it one way and is fine keeping it that way.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 24, 2009, 10:17:22 PM
Right, it's like getting accustomed to being a driver on the left side of the car in Amerikaland as opposed to right-side in Euroland. Everybody simply already learned it one way and is fine keeping it that way.
The UK and Ireland are the only European countries that drive on the left, the rest drive on the right (as does the majority of the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_driving_on_the_left_or_right.svg). About 66% of the world drives on the right (vehicles are usually produced as left driving cars/driving on the right and right driving cars/driving on the left).
Anyways, I had no problem with the mirrored world of TP. Maybe it's because it's the only version I played and the fact that Nintendo clearly wanted the Wii version to be the primary version, but it felt natural and fine to me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 25, 2009, 01:09:06 AM
I'm ambidextrous. I have an advantage over all of you.
HA!
...Actually, I'm pretty sure that Link is ambidextrous. He might hold his sword in his left hand, but there are certain tools he uses as a right-handed person would; the bow and the hookshot, for example. So, perhaps in this game he's going to choose his right hand for swordplay, because he doesn't want to feel left out.
What could work is an option to play with the Wiimote in your left hand. Which hand option you chose would determine which hand Link himself holds the sword with. I wonder how difficult that would be to implement?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 25, 2009, 02:20:07 AM
I'm ambidextrous. I have an advantage over all of you.
HA!
...Actually, I'm pretty sure that Link is ambidextrous. He might hold his sword in his left hand, but there are certain tools he uses as a right-handed person would; the bow and the hookshot, for example. So, perhaps in this game he's going to choose his right hand for swordplay, because he doesn't want to feel left out.
What could work is an option to play with the Wiimote in your left hand. Which hand option you chose would determine which hand Link himself holds the sword with. I wonder how difficult that would be to implement?
So long as this would be determined by an in-game toggle the player selects, not that difficult at all but time-consuming. Along with programming both hands to handle all functions, you'd have to make sure that nothing wierd happens when either hand uses any tool in the game at any point in the game. So it's something of a QA nightmare typically deemed not worthy of wasting time on for the .01% of users that would mess with it..
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 25, 2009, 02:42:31 AM
So it's something of a QA nightmare typically deemed not worthy of wasting time on for the .01% of users that would mess with it..
I don't know, I think the percentage is higher than that. Probably still not enough to make it worthwhile, though I'd think it's somewhere between 10-15%.
With games that use only the Wiimote I almost always use my left hand. If this game has heavy use of the Wiimote then I'd probably still want to use the Wiimote in my left hand even if it meant holding the Nunchuk in my right.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 25, 2009, 02:50:33 AM
So it's something of a QA nightmare typically deemed not worthy of wasting time on for the .01% of users that would mess with it..
I don't know, I think the percentage is higher than that. Probably still not enough to make it worthwhile, though I'd think it's somewhere between 10-15%.
With games that use only the Wiimote I almost always use my left hand. If this game has heavy use of the Wiimote then I'd probably still want to use the Wiimote in my left hand even if it meant holding the Nunchuk in my right.
Well, I think you may see that option on simple games like Wii (insert name here), which tend to use simple models like Miis and whatnot. With very little geometry to animate and account for in testing, it's simply easier to implement and test. I highly doubt we'll see such functionality in something like Zelda, though, since the gaming audience is predominantly right-handed and gaming has traditionally had control handled by the left hand and action by the right.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 25, 2009, 02:56:58 AM
They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NovaQ on June 25, 2009, 09:17:14 AM
They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?
That's what I originally hoped they were going to do in TP, but that certainly didn't happen. I guess there were too many complex interactions between Link and the gameworld to make a mirror-Link easy enough to implement. There were also plenty of cutscenes that showed (and sometimes counted on) Link having a particular hand as dominant. Those would've had to have been adjusted and retooled as well. So, mirroring the whole game was a much easier - though less satisfying, personally - alternative.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 25, 2009, 11:38:48 AM
They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?
That's what I originally hoped they were going to do in TP, but that certainly didn't happen. I guess there were too many complex interactions between Link and the gameworld to make a mirror-Link easy enough to implement. There were also plenty of cutscenes that showed (and sometimes counted on) Link having a particular hand as dominant. Those would've had to have been adjusted and retooled as well. So, mirroring the whole game was a much easier - though less satisfying, personally - alternative.
Link is ambidextrous so they wouldn't need to change cutscenes because it wouldn't matter if he's holding the sword with a different hand in them. He is capable of both. But I guess it could affect the gameplay so it's probably not feasible.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 25, 2009, 06:20:48 PM
They couldn't just mirror Link instead of mirroring the entire game?
That's what I originally hoped they were going to do in TP, but that certainly didn't happen. I guess there were too many complex interactions between Link and the gameworld to make a mirror-Link easy enough to implement. There were also plenty of cutscenes that showed (and sometimes counted on) Link having a particular hand as dominant. Those would've had to have been adjusted and retooled as well. So, mirroring the whole game was a much easier - though less satisfying, personally - alternative.
Link is ambidextrous so they wouldn't need to change cutscenes because it wouldn't matter if he's holding the sword with a different hand in them. He is capable of both. But I guess it could affect the gameplay so it's probably not feasible.
I've noticed that most lefties have an affinity for being slightly ambidextrous. Sometimes bowling, batting or doing something else as well if not better with their right hand. I always figured it was a partial adaptation to living in a right-handed dominant world.
I bowl better with my right hand and I can bat either way.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 25, 2009, 06:26:35 PM
There's no such thing as being slightly ambidextrous, you either are or you aren't. It isn't like people's non-dominant hands are completely useless. I know right-handed people who prefer to do some things with their left hands, such as Wii Sports Baseball; bat with right but pitch with left.
Usually it comes down to writing ability. Have we ever seen Link write anything?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 25, 2009, 08:21:21 PM
Never would I have thought to hear something like this in relation to Zelda games.
Really? There's a whole thread in the funhouse about his nipples in Twilight Princess. I think the image even became a banner back when the funhouse was cool!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 25, 2009, 08:22:48 PM
I thought man nipples were just a general theme in the funhouse. I did not know that Link's started the 'fad'.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 25, 2009, 08:31:35 PM
I thought man nipples were just a general theme in the funhouse. I did not know that Link's started the 'fad'.
UncleBob started the fad, first of all. Link just made it popular with the tweens!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 02, 2009, 05:59:44 PM
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/events/091030qa/index.html Miyamoto just had another interview and talks about Zelda TS & Zelda Wii. IT's in Japanese, but GAF has already translated some of it.
Quote from: Miyamoto
[Zelda ST] will be really fun. It's turning out to be rather challenging. Many of our Japanese customers were introduced to the Zelda series with Phantom Hourglass, and ST could prove to be kind of hard for them, but I thought we'd show them what Zelda is really made of this time around. So it's turning into quite a unique title.
Quote
We've managed to gather quite a few creative team members for Zelda ST, so I'd like Zelda Wii to also enjoy creative development as much as possible.
Quote
About MotionPlus. We're implementing it so that players can feel like they themselves are holding the sword. In the previous Zelda (TP Wii) the targeting was based on the IR pointer. This time however, we'll be using MotionPlus for a variety of more convenient targeting systems that will allow for more pleasant gameplay.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on November 02, 2009, 06:08:24 PM
there are certain tools he uses as a right-handed person would; the bow and the hookshot
The hookshot, yeah. He uses the bow left-handed.
Anyway, didn't Miyamoto kill this debate when he said that he personally is ambidextrous, so pretty much all his characters (notably Link and Mario) are as well?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 02, 2009, 06:11:40 PM
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/events/091030qa/index.html Miyamoto just had another interview and talks about Zelda TS & Zelda Wii. IT's in Japanese, but GAF has already translated some of it.
Quote from: Miyamoto
[Zelda ST] will be really fun. It's turning out to be rather challenging. Many of our Japanese customers were introduced to the Zelda series with Phantom Hourglass, and ST could prove to be kind of hard for them, but I thought we'd show them what Zelda is really made of this time around. So it's turning into quite a unique title.
Quote
We've managed to gather quite a few creative team members for Zelda ST, so I'd like Zelda Wii to also enjoy creative development as much as possible.
Quote
About MotionPlus. We're implementing it so that players can feel like they themselves are holding the sword. In the previous Zelda (TP Wii) the targeting was based on the IR pointer. This time however, we'll be using MotionPlus for a variety of more convenient targeting systems that will allow for more pleasant gameplay.
Well that is nice to hear. On a somewhat related note I tried out swordfighting in WSR at a Demo station a few days ago and it is really fluid.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on November 02, 2009, 06:23:47 PM
Anyway, didn't Miyamoto kill this debate when he said that he personally is ambidextrous, so pretty much all his characters (notably Link and Mario) are as well?
Mario is ambidextrous? I haven't seen him ever use anything with his left hand.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on November 02, 2009, 07:13:03 PM
Quote
About MotionPlus. We're implementing it so that players can feel like they themselves are holding the sword. In the previous Zelda (TP Wii) the targeting was based on the IR pointer. This time however, we'll be using MotionPlus for a variety of more convenient targeting systems that will allow for more pleasant gameplay.
I'm really not very interested in swinging the remote every single fucking time I want to swing the sword. Just think about how much you swing the sword in a Zelda game. If you have to actually swing the damn controller every single time your arm is going to be silly putty after an hour. And Zelda isn't a game you pick up and play for 10 minutes. It sucks you in so that hours go by like minutes. Swinging the actual sword will impress rubes for five minutes and then become a big chore.
Zelda isn't about swinging a sword. It's about having an adventure. Metroid is also about having an adventure and that's why Metroid Prime Hunters is worthless piss because some small-minded idiot saw that you shoot stuff and thought that shooting stuff was the whole point. I also don't like Metroid Prime 3 nearly as much as the first two MP games for the same reason.
If you're making a Zelda game and the first thing you think of is swinging the sword then you're setting yourself up to make a shitty Zelda game. If you give it the scope of the other Zelda games then you're going to destroy the player's arm. But if you cut back the scope to better accomodate sword swinging mechanics then you're stripping out the adventure and thus the whole reason Zelda is anything. The whole thing is recipe for disaster. I will be very impressed if Nintendo pulls it off. I really hope they do. I don't think they can because I think motion control is too limiting and one dimensional but I certainly hope they can prove me wrong on that.
What Miyamoto should truly focus on is making the player feel like they themselves are on the adventure. It has nothing to do with a sword and a shield or an elf dressed like Robin Hood.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: hylianhero5249 on November 02, 2009, 07:18:20 PM
Anyway, didn't Miyamoto kill this debate when he said that he personally is ambidextrous, so pretty much all his characters (notably Link and Mario) are as well?
Mario is ambidextrous? I haven't seen him ever use anything with his left hand.
I haven't seen him use anything with his right hand.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on November 02, 2009, 07:20:46 PM
Start man'ing up then, it won't be out for another year.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on November 02, 2009, 07:56:21 PM
If you have to actually swing the damn controller every single time your arm is going to be silly putty after an hour.
I sure hope Nintendo gets game testers for this game. Can you imagine the lawsuits if they don't? Better invest in some acetaminophen too.
Seriously, this "arm-waving" argument is so 3 years ago. I *might* agree with you if this was a no-name 3rd party, but this is Nintendo. They aren't going to half-ass Zelda, and they aren't going to overlook a possible issue, such as this.
And about what "Miyamoto should focus on"... You're taking one comment about one aspect of the gameplay and making broad generalizations about the whole game. It's still early for them to be talking about the adventure aspects. I'm sure their thinking up new ideas and concepts, but if they can't go into details yet, there's no point for them to comment.
BTW, I do respect many of your arguments but sometimes, like now, you take an inch and run a mile.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on November 02, 2009, 09:42:38 PM
Anyway, didn't Miyamoto kill this debate when he said that he personally is ambidextrous, so pretty much all his characters (notably Link and Mario) are as well?
Mario is ambidextrous? I haven't seen him ever use anything with his left hand.
I haven't seen him use anything with his right hand.
Throws fireballs, swings baseball bats, tennis rackets, golf clubs, throws baseballs, etc. He does it all with his right hand.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 03, 2009, 02:05:06 AM
Even the slightest bit of anything gets me excited. Especialy after reading that "this zelda wont be that different" from previous instalments.
Really looking forward to some outrageous settings. TP was too safe even with the temple in the sky, didn't look "sky" enough.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on November 03, 2009, 03:33:48 AM
I'm really not very interested in swinging the remote every single ****ing time I want to swing the sword. Just think about how much you swing the sword in a Zelda game. If you have to actually swing the damn controller every single time your arm is going to be silly putty after an hour. And Zelda isn't a game you pick up and play for 10 minutes. It sucks you in so that hours go by like minutes. Swinging the actual sword will impress rubes for five minutes and then become a big chore.
Zelda isn't about swinging a sword. It's about having an adventure. Metroid is also about having an adventure and that's why Metroid Prime Hunters is worthless piss because some small-minded idiot saw that you shoot stuff and thought that shooting stuff was the whole point. I also don't like Metroid Prime 3 nearly as much as the first two MP games for the same reason.
If you're making a Zelda game and the first thing you think of is swinging the sword then you're setting yourself up to make a ****ty Zelda game. If you give it the scope of the other Zelda games then you're going to destroy the player's arm. But if you cut back the scope to better accomodate sword swinging mechanics then you're stripping out the adventure and thus the whole reason Zelda is anything. The whole thing is recipe for disaster. I will be very impressed if Nintendo pulls it off. I really hope they do. I don't think they can because I think motion control is too limiting and one dimensional but I certainly hope they can prove me wrong on that.
What Miyamoto should truly focus on is making the player feel like they themselves are on the adventure. It has nothing to do with a sword and a shield or an elf dressed like Robin Hood.
You would have a good point, except that you don't actually need to swing the remote in order to swing the sword. Unless I'm mistaken (and I don't think I am, but I could be because I haven't played it in awhile), in Twilight Princess you could swing the sword either by swinging the remote, OR you could also do it via button presses ala standard controls. So I'm pretty sure you had both methods available at the same time instead of one or the other.
If this turns out to be the case in the new Zelda game, will you withdraw your criticism?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 03, 2009, 04:03:07 AM
I'm really not very interested in swinging the remote every single ****ing time I want to swing the sword. Just think about how much you swing the sword in a Zelda game. If you have to actually swing the damn controller every single time your arm is going to be silly putty after an hour. And Zelda isn't a game you pick up and play for 10 minutes. It sucks you in so that hours go by like minutes. Swinging the actual sword will impress rubes for five minutes and then become a big chore.
Zelda isn't about swinging a sword. It's about having an adventure. Metroid is also about having an adventure and that's why Metroid Prime Hunters is worthless piss because some small-minded idiot saw that you shoot stuff and thought that shooting stuff was the whole point. I also don't like Metroid Prime 3 nearly as much as the first two MP games for the same reason.
If you're making a Zelda game and the first thing you think of is swinging the sword then you're setting yourself up to make a ****ty Zelda game. If you give it the scope of the other Zelda games then you're going to destroy the player's arm. But if you cut back the scope to better accomodate sword swinging mechanics then you're stripping out the adventure and thus the whole reason Zelda is anything. The whole thing is recipe for disaster. I will be very impressed if Nintendo pulls it off. I really hope they do. I don't think they can because I think motion control is too limiting and one dimensional but I certainly hope they can prove me wrong on that.
What Miyamoto should truly focus on is making the player feel like they themselves are on the adventure. It has nothing to do with a sword and a shield or an elf dressed like Robin Hood.
You would have a good point, except that you don't actually need to swing the remote in order to swing the sword. Unless I'm mistaken (and I don't think I am, but I could be because I haven't played it in awhile), in Twilight Princess you could swing the sword either by swinging the remote, OR you could also do it via button presses ala standard controls. So I'm pretty sure you had both methods available at the same time instead of one or the other.
If this turns out to be the case in the new Zelda game, will you withdraw your criticism?
If it doesn't bring something unique to the table it may as well scratch motion controls entirely. Haven't well all said we don't want a bunch of games replacing button presses with 'waggle' but instead bringing immersive (sp? spellcheck seems to not recognize the word) gameplay to the table?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on November 03, 2009, 06:25:15 AM
After awhile motion controls might seem to be a chore, but it does have its place when you are just starting out and it seems cool and interesting.
In any case, we seen what sort of control was possible with the wiimote in TP and it was kinda Meh, but I'm genuinely interested in what Motion+ might bring to the table. Having true 1:1 motion control with your sword on the screen could result in actual realistic sword fighting, and if that is the case then it's something actually worth having. If you're just using your sword to mow grass or smash pots then the motion control definitely is a chore like Ian said, and for that you should just use button presses, but for actual combat it could be cool and not a chore at all...
Zelda is a game you spend many hours in, but probably only a quarter of that time is actual combat. If that's the only times we need to mess with swinging a remote around then it wouldn't be too bad.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dasmos on November 03, 2009, 10:25:52 AM
Well Red Steel 2 has been getting mostly positive reviews for it's controls, has it not? I can't see Zelda being more sword-centric than that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 03, 2009, 10:30:40 AM
Nice Avatar Dasmos.
Has any more of the interview been translated?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2009, 02:14:06 PM
Quote
If this turns out to be the case in the new Zelda game, will you withdraw your criticism?
Yes... well that specific criticism anyway. If the game design would allow me to just use the classic controller, I'd just play that way.
But then you create a different problem: if I can just use a normal controller then why are you wasting time on this motion control junk in the first place? If you can use a normal controller then Nintendo has failed because all they truly did was map button presses to gestures. But if they use just motion control and it's a big chore then they've also failed. They also fail if the motion control is fun but to make it so the traditional Zelda gameplay is too compromised or dumbed down.
It's a REALLY tricky scenario. The day Nintendo said the remote would be the new controller standard they set the bar pretty damn high. To succeed (at least from an artistic or creative point of view) they have to make a game that is of comparable quality to the other Zelda games that uses motion control and does so in a way where not only does the player never for a second wish they could just use the classic controller but that the game just could never be done any other way to begin with. It's a huge challenge. If anyone can do it, it's Nintendo, but I fear it might just be something that is impossible for ANY developer to achieve with the technology currently available.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 03, 2009, 02:50:31 PM
Can I suggest a solution?
What if there were two types of "waggle"? Outside of "Z" targeting, little wrists flicks would suffice. This would make breaking vases and cutting grass easy and effortless. When "Z" targeting, 1:1 motion swings would be used. This would allow for more advanced enemies that need to be taken down according to their weaknesses. For instance, an enemy has armor that must be cut first with a swing from the left to right, down to bottom, and then a stab.
Best of both worlds?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on November 03, 2009, 02:58:08 PM
if I can just use a normal controller then why are you wasting time on this motion control junk in the first place?
Why the **@( did you buy a Wii in the first place
Quote
there is a certain amount of consumer ignorance in the market share which is understandably since Nintendo very cleverly targetted a demographic that was otherwise unfamiliar with videogames.
Yes, there certainly is a lot of ignorance.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2009, 05:09:41 PM
Quote
What if there were two types of "waggle"? Outside of "Z" targeting, little wrists flicks would suffice. This would make breaking vases and cutting grass easy and effortless. When "Z" targeting, 1:1 motion swings would be used. This would allow for more advanced enemies that need to be taken down according to their weaknesses. For instance, an enemy has armor that must be cut first with a swing from the left to right, down to bottom, and then a stab.
That is a really good idea!
Quote
Why the **@( did you buy a Wii in the first place
Because it had some awesome Nintendo games on it. This was before the NPC titles were revealed and during a time when Nintendo was a little more frequent with releases. And later this month one of my most anticipated games comes out so the purchase still validates itself from time to time.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 03, 2009, 05:56:41 PM
What if there were two types of "waggle"? Outside of "Z" targeting, little wrists flicks would suffice. This would make breaking vases and cutting grass easy and effortless. When "Z" targeting, 1:1 motion swings would be used. This would allow for more advanced enemies that need to be taken down according to their weaknesses. For instance, an enemy has armor that must be cut first with a swing from the left to right, down to bottom, and then a stab.
That is a really good idea!
Well if I thought of it, then I'm sure Nintendo has as well.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 03, 2009, 07:08:49 PM
What if there were two types of "waggle"? Outside of "Z" targeting, little wrists flicks would suffice. This would make breaking vases and cutting grass easy and effortless. When "Z" targeting, 1:1 motion swings would be used. This would allow for more advanced enemies that need to be taken down according to their weaknesses. For instance, an enemy has armor that must be cut first with a swing from the left to right, down to bottom, and then a stab.
That is a really good idea!
Well if I thought of it, then I'm sure Nintendo has as well.
especially since this is not the first time it's been mentioned.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 05, 2009, 12:22:01 PM
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/events/091030qa/index.html Miyamoto just had another interview and talks about Zelda TS & Zelda Wii. IT's in Japanese, but GAF has already translated some of it.
Quote from: Miyamoto
[Zelda ST] will be really fun. It's turning out to be rather challenging. Many of our Japanese customers were introduced to the Zelda series with Phantom Hourglass, and ST could prove to be kind of hard for them, but I thought we'd show them what Zelda is really made of this time around. So it's turning into quite a unique title.
Quote
We've managed to gather quite a few creative team members for Zelda ST, so I'd like Zelda Wii to also enjoy creative development as much as possible.
Quote
About MotionPlus. We're implementing it so that players can feel like they themselves are holding the sword. In the previous Zelda (TP Wii) the targeting was based on the IR pointer. This time however, we'll be using MotionPlus for a variety of more convenient targeting systems that will allow for more pleasant gameplay.
Full English Translation: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/091030qa/index.html
Quote
I was hoping you'd ask about the most recent Zelda for DS. On December 23rd in Japan we are going to release The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks, a sequel of Phantom Hourglass. It's really fun and challenging. On the other hand it might be a bit difficult for many new Japanese Zelda players who experienced their first adventure on Phantom Hourglass. I believe Spirit Tracks have achieved a unique style and I think you can anticipate the core value of Zelda! And the new Zelda for Wii is beyond that. On developing the recent Zelda for DS, I found out that one of Zelda's core appeals is its uniqueness. Of course we are preparing gorgeous graphics for the sake of users' anticipation for a grand role-playing adventure. But what I believe is very important is the realistic, actual feeling players have experienced themselves; the feeling to have really been on an adventure, to have explored the unknown terrains, to have solved the puzzle through trial and errors, to have themselves grown through various experiences! In that sense, a personal sense of creativity is becoming important among us. We have assembled one of the most creative team for the recent Zelda for DS, and we want to be as creative as possible for upcoming Wii Zelda. And on a more tangible note, we are utilizing Wii MotionPlus. What has been disclosed so far is that we are finding the most efficient way to utilize Wii MotionPlus to realize the realistic and actual feeling of fighting with the sword. As for targeting, we are utilizing the pointing system of Wii Remote on the previous title. This time we are planning a more convenient and comfortable pointing system.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 05, 2009, 12:50:35 PM
That's one of the greatest quotes I've ever read.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on November 05, 2009, 01:00:39 PM
Quote
But what I believe is very important is the realistic, actual feeling players have experienced themselves; the feeling to have really been on an adventure, to have explored the unknown terrains, to have solved the puzzle through trial and errors, to have themselves grown through various experiences!
Now THAT is what Zelda is about and the exact line of thinking one should have when designing a new Zelda game! :)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 06, 2009, 11:58:31 AM
That quote is nice to read. If Ian is excited everyone should be excited.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 06, 2009, 12:53:24 PM
But what I believe is very important is the realistic, actual feeling players have experienced themselves; the feeling to have really been on an adventure, to have explored the unknown terrains, to have solved the puzzle through trial and errors, to have themselves grown through various experiences!
Now THAT is what Zelda is about and the exact line of thinking one should have when designing a new Zelda game! :)
This is the first time in my few years as a regular here that I've seen Ian use an emoticon other than ;)
With that said;
QUOTED FOR REMEMBERANCE OF AN EPIC MOMENT
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on November 06, 2009, 01:39:21 PM
*clap clap*
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 06, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
The guy in the interview was really being tough on nintendo with one of his questions. Basicly saying "I don't see how you guys are going to pull your selves out of this slump". Did anyone read the entire thing?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on November 06, 2009, 03:12:01 PM
Is that honestly surprising anymore?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 06, 2009, 03:23:29 PM
Press won't ask the real questions, like "Where is Dynamic Slash?"
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 18, 2009, 04:53:44 PM
Zelda to surprise at next years E3 (http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=13313)
Quote from: Official Nintendo Magazine
Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma has told ONM to expect surprises at next year's E3 as Nintendo prepares to reveal an overhaul of the critically-acclaimed series.
When asked how different the new Zelda title will be when it arrives on Wii next year, Aonuma replied: "It is something we used to talk about with Mr Miyamoto, and he and I agree that if we are following the same structure again and again, we might not be able to give long time Zelda fans a fresh surprise."
"So we have been trying something new in terms of the structure of the Wii version of the new Zelda game this time. I am really hopeful that people will be surprised with the changes we have implemented for this Wii version."
Aonuma also confirmed that alongside full MotionPlus support, we'll be able to see more of what his team have been working on at next year's E3. "I hope that we can show you something at the E3 show next year and it is something we are hopeful will be surprising," he added.
The full, in-depth interview with Eiji Aonuma will be published in Official Nintendo Magazine issue 51, out December 18th. Issue 50, which contains the world's first Zelda: Spirit Tracks review, an exclusive Shigeru Miyamoto interview and much more, goes on sale from Friday 20th November. You can buy Official Nintendo Magazine online right here and get it delivered to your door, or even subscribe if the mood takes you. You get a copy of Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games if you fancy it.
So we're guaranteed surprises from the next Zelda game on Wii but what do you think they will be? Tell us in the comments thread!
+completely overhauled so that it feels like a new and fresh experience +Full Motion Plus support
+Free copy of M&S@Olympic Winter games with copy of ONM?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 18, 2009, 05:05:00 PM
Somebody in Europe better get that issue.
As far as these details I am excited about them. E3 is in June?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 18, 2009, 05:19:34 PM
Yay, I love reading anything about Zelda. I don't understand... first TP is going to be the last of its kind. Then Miyamoto goes on to say how he believes the new ZELDA isn't that different. Now it's something fresh in terms of structure and obviously control. I think we could all see that this new Zelda was going to be something new and different. But I still can't shake Miyamoto's words.
You know I just thought of something. I'm wondering about that news story which stated that Charles Martinette wanted to voice Link. Charles obviously knew something about the character himself if he was approaching Miyamoto like that and most surely knows he does nothing but grunt, yell and on occasion actually yell "over here!". But this is my theory...
Charles Martinet may have seen a Casting Call by Nintendo for the latest Zelda game, one which would feature full on voice work. Of course there were probably a billion things to audition for as far as main characters go, but of course there was no Link. Charles probably figured "hey where is Link on this casting list? maybe that already know they guy they want! I'm talking to Miyamoto directly about this outrage! I should always have first dibs! I'm Mr Nintendo dagnabit!".
Basically the only reason why we got that news bit about Charles and Link lately is because there is indeed going to be voice work in the latest Zelda game, and wondering why Link wasn't on that list, Charles went directly to Miyamoto. When you think about it, why would Charles Martinette approach Miyamoto on a game that he knows is absolutely silent? And if this happened years ago back in the 64 or GCN days it's odd that we are only hearing about it now.
I would like some voice work but it wouldn't kill me if it weren't there.
Found this on several sites, a few days ago. http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=104332
“I spoke to Mr. Miyamoto and said: “I wanna be Link, I wanna be Link”, and Miyamoto told me that Link isn’t going to have a voice; he is going to stay the way he is. Of course Mr. Miyamoto is always right! The way it works right now is the way it is supposed to be. It’s the genius of Miyamoto and he knows just the right formula for making his games more fun and more exciting. For example in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, If things slowed down for Mario to express his inner feelings it just wouldn’t work and this way it keeps our hearts pounding with enthusiasm.” - Charles Martinet
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 18, 2009, 05:23:44 PM
He was talking about voicing a new mario game, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 18, 2009, 05:27:30 PM
Found this on several sites, a few days ago. http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=104332
“I spoke to Mr. Miyamoto and said: “I wanna be Link, I wanna be Link”, and Miyamoto told me that Link isn’t going to have a voice; he is going to stay the way he is. Of course Mr. Miyamoto is always right! The way it works right now is the way it is supposed to be. It’s the genius of Miyamoto and he knows just the right formula for making his games more fun and more exciting. For example in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, If things slowed down for Mario to express his inner feelings it just wouldn’t work and this way it keeps our hearts pounding with enthusiasm.” - Charles Martinet
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 18, 2009, 06:08:26 PM
Oh, I've never seen that. so i stand corrected.
edit: and its from a few days ago too....
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 18, 2009, 06:10:54 PM
Zelda is such a boring princess. Let the next game be FILLED with hawt Dark Elves (female).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 18, 2009, 06:25:51 PM
Zelda is such a boring princess. Let the next game be FILLED with hawt Dark Elves (female).
I'd take Midna over dark elves. Midna has a lot of personality compared to Zelda and other LoZ characters.
The 2nd half of the game made her semi-lame.
The entire side-cast of Majora's Mask had ten times more personality then her.
I'll agree with that. I was more generalizing with the Midna > rest of cast comment. Majora's Mask's cast outshines pretty much any other characters from any Zelda game. Link himself has no personality.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 19, 2009, 05:34:02 AM
"Link himself has no personality"
Just like the player!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 19, 2009, 08:49:51 PM
they should just have Link get shipwrecked on another island (a real one) thats not too massive in size, but not too small either.
the whole thing should be like one big ass dungeon where you get to explore the entire island (which has no central town/village, but does have NPC's scattered across out in the open or in remote locales), using the weapons you acquire to traverse the terrain. You can have the traditional dungeon themes but mix them up a bit; work them not only into the environment (the island around you) but the other dungeons themselves;
do a side-quest favor for an islander that results in a dam being built in the nearby river, opening up a portion of an underground dungeon. You don't have the right equipment yet so you move on to another dungeon. something occurs which breaks the damn, but that dungeon isn't blocked off, its still accessable from another part of the island, however its now become flooded (creating new puzzles), etc.
Basically this new zelda should bring back the awesome challenging puzzles of old, as introduce some more metroid-like exploration. to be honest, i'm surprised it hasn't happened before.
ps the island setting is just an excuse to get link to take his shirt off again, yum!
3D Zelda that's more challenging with Motion+ swordfighting but with the structure of and an overworld set up like Metroid? Where can I pre-order?
Motion+... almost forgot about that!
another crazy idea for my Survivor Man: Legend of Zelda;
all that 1st person zelda talk can come to fruition in motion+ based puzzles or activities where you control links hands to traverse or otherwise manipulate the terrain, even if its slightly mini game-ish. picture having to scale a cliff with modified (WW styled) hook-shot...
Use the wiimotes IR pointer to (in 1st person mode of course) launch the hookshot to an appropriate part of the cliff, where you automatically pull yourself off part of the way, but then have to use motion+ to move links hand to grab a hold, and the nunchuck to pull himself up with his left hand..?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 20, 2009, 03:28:03 AM
I always wanted to see a sequel to Link's Awakening where he returned to the island in 3D years later.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Spinnzilla on November 20, 2009, 10:16:16 AM
Let's just do a Zelda/Metroid mash up.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on November 20, 2009, 03:24:58 PM
I like how in Metroid there is no clearly defined dungeons. You explore and at certain points you encounter new abilities that open up more of the world or bosses. Metroid, more than any other game, feels like one connected world. Having that sort of thing in Zelda would be really cool.
But one thing that Metroid doesn't really have is safe areas. It's kind of like the whole world is one big dungeon. There are no villages or NPCs or areas that you can just relax. You're constantly on your toes. Now some people like that and I like that in Metroid games. But in Zelda you're not always on your toes and I like that. I feel very tense when in a dungeon but feel relieved and relaxed when I go back to the main world. To me that's part of Zelda. If I want the "always on the edge of my seat" feeling I have Metroid.
Majora's Mask kind of has this. There are areas that are clearly dangerous and ones that aren't and even though there are dungeons there are many areas that are kind of like dungeons but technically aren't. I think that's more what I would be interested in. Don't make dungeons so distinct from everything else but at the same time don't make it all one big dungeon.
How cool would it be if instead of "you must go to the 8 temples to find the 8 magic jewels to save the world" you got "you must find the 8 magic jewels to save the world. Go find them." Maybe one is in an old temple, maybe one is at the bottom of the lake, maybe one is in a cave somewhere. Explore the world and find these jewels!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 20, 2009, 04:51:40 PM
Those things are different. But even if the dungeouns weren't clearly set apart from everything else, I still don't see how that is different enough to move the series along. Do this with some kind of co-op where the other player feels important, unlike Tingle or the Extra Star Shooter in Galaxy I think would do some good.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on November 20, 2009, 06:06:38 PM
Quote
Those things are different. But even if the dungeouns weren't clearly set apart from everything else, I still don't see how that is different enough to move the series along.
Well how different do you want or need Zelda to be? I really just don't want to feel like I'm doing the exact same thing I did before. So far Twilight Princess is the only game to truly give me that feeling.
I want things to feel fresh and new, but it's also got to feel like Zelda. It's a fine line.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 20, 2009, 06:10:50 PM
TP is the only one to make you feel that way? What about Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask? What standard are you appealing to?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 21, 2009, 02:12:16 AM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 21, 2009, 06:24:38 AM
AUCTOROKS, TRANSFORM!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on November 21, 2009, 07:10:05 AM
I guess I grew up with Zelda so I've always enjoyed the Zelda games. To me I was Link and Zelda was my princess. In my head I wrote the story and Link had my personality, and Zelda had the personality of my dream girl. It was me growing in strength and completing those tasks. Sometimes when a personality/story is so defined it's hard to get into because I don't see myself as that kind of hero or don't find the story believable.
I don't think a good story is bad, I just think it goes back to the books vs. movie debate. If I've read a book first I often dislike the movie. You know, they picked who to be the star? How can he act cocky like that? She's the person he's going to save? In my head I already played out the movie and I thought it was perfect, the movie is a remake that just isn't as good.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 21, 2009, 02:02:28 PM
I guess I grew up with Zelda so I've always enjoyed the Zelda games. To me I was Link and Zelda was my princess. In my head I wrote the story and Link had my personality, and Zelda had the personality of my dream girl. It was me growing in strength and completing those tasks. Sometimes when a personality/story is so defined it's hard to get into because I don't see myself as that kind of hero or don't find the story believable.
I don't think a good story is bad, I just think it goes back to the books vs. movie debate. If I've read a book first I often dislike the movie. You know, they picked who to be the star? How can he act cocky like that? She's the person he's going to save? In my head I already played out the movie and I thought it was perfect, the movie is a remake that just isn't as good.
hm, i never thought of it that way and i have to agree with you. I was the same way. What kinda kills it in this day and age is the graphics can show much more detail compared to when we were playing the original LoZ games. Then it was easier to use your imagination because for the most part you had to, but now? It's all placed in front of you, even how characters are supposed to act, etc.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 22, 2009, 05:40:50 PM
This guy Solitanze knows what he is talking about over at N-Europe!
"To prevent further decline in the series, Nintendo must have 97.4% average ratio with 70+ editorial reviews in mind (to drop by one to two places the most overrated game of all time in Grand Theft Auto IV). To achieve that feat, the following MUST be in the game:
- SD/High Definition Graphics with Blood - Hopefully Wii HD will be announced at E3 2010 with this game to be available for that system as well as regular Wii. Two retail releases; LOZ & LOZ HD;
- 100+ hours gameplay BARE MINIMUM first time through for the EXPERT/HARDCORE gamer (Excluding 30+ hours of available side quests);
- Virtually 1:1 control with Wii Motion Plus, not TACKED on, but rather an integral part of gameplay;
- Drastic change in setting/plot (i.e. possibly part of it being set far into the future) with an emotionally gripping story that places significant emphasis on the power of the enemy. There must be at least one key character that dies in the game to the shock of everyone;
- Harder difficulty (You fall off a cliff, you die, plain and simple, considerably more powerful enemies, some almost killing you with one swipe and rubies/hearts being a lot more scarce with necessity items being much more expensive. Bosses should take 20,30,40 hits to die, not 3 hit death pushovers);
- Huge array of inventory/items to collect, with some new ones to boot, some hidden, some can only be bought. But all items should have multiple and important uses, not be used for a dungeon and then be useless;
- Orchestrated Music (No Midi) with voice acting for EVERY character (perhaps excluding Link);
- Online multiplayer mode with modes such as head to head swordfighting (see who really is the best hero), Links Crossbow Training style shootout (points shooting gallery & deathmatch), horse racing on Epona(s) and more all with online leaderboards;
- A virtual console code included with the special edition of the game to be able to download every LOZ game released on there for free OR include another Zelda - Collectors Edition disc but with even more than what was on there last time;
If any of the above is missing, the game will be a failure both critically and commercially..."
What a dope. But I bet many of the gaming media would agree. This is why fans can't be in charge to make games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 22, 2009, 05:43:35 PM
Christ, that game would take 10 years to make.
**** that, I'll just play No More Heroes.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 22, 2009, 05:45:19 PM
No More Zeldas, thanks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 22, 2009, 05:50:01 PM
This guy Solitanze knows what he is talking about over at N-Europe!
"To prevent further decline in the series, Nintendo must have 97.4% average ratio with 70+ editorial reviews in mind (to drop by one to two places the most overrated game of all time in Grand Theft Auto IV). To achieve that feat, the following MUST be in the game:
- SD/High Definition Graphics with Blood - Hopefully Wii HD will be announced at E3 2010 with this game to be available for that system as well as regular Wii. Two retail releases; LOZ & LOZ HD;
- A virtual console code included with the special edition of the game to be able to download every LOZ game released on there for free OR include another Zelda - Collectors Edition disc but with even more than what was on there last time;
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SilverGrey on November 22, 2009, 06:04:44 PM
Goodness I would hate a Zelda that was like that! Of course I'm nervous I'm going to hate the 'fundamental departure' as it is. But I guess I'm not as burnt out on the 'old' Zelda style as so many people tend to be (apparently).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 22, 2009, 06:42:32 PM
how long have you been into the zelda series? if you've played the originals (on their original systems) then its hard NOT to be, but even I don't feel as tired of it as some people have expressed (no one around here, as far as i know).
you know what the internets like though, lotsa loud mouths with annoying opinions. they shout louder than anyone else so it seems like there are more people who are "sick" of zelda than there really are.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SilverGrey on November 22, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
I haven't played any Zelda before OOT, and I've never really played a handheld Zelda either. So I already know I'm not as burnt out on the series as some people, it's just logical. I have vague memories of watching my cousins play the older Zelda games, but all I really remember is them telling me 'don't touch'.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 22, 2009, 07:07:09 PM
aww poor kid. those are some of the better games in the series!
definately check them out on the virtual console if you can, ESPECIALLY A Link to the Past.. best zelda ever! Or you can try out Links Awakening on the gameboy (Links Awakening DX on the GBC) for another great zelda, but i still think ALTTP is better.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on November 22, 2009, 07:20:00 PM
This guy Solitanze knows what he is talking about over at N-Europe!
"To prevent further decline in the series, Nintendo must have 97.4% average ratio with 70+ editorial reviews in mind (to drop by one to two places the most overrated game of all time in Grand Theft Auto IV). To achieve that feat, the following MUST be in the game:
- SD/High Definition Graphics with Blood - Hopefully Wii HD will be announced at E3 2010 with this game to be available for that system as well as regular Wii. Two retail releases; LOZ & LOZ HD;
- 100+ hours gameplay BARE MINIMUM first time through for the EXPERT/HARDCORE gamer (Excluding 30+ hours of available side quests);
- Virtually 1:1 control with Wii Motion Plus, not TACKED on, but rather an integral part of gameplay;
- Drastic change in setting/plot (i.e. possibly part of it being set far into the future) with an emotionally gripping story that places significant emphasis on the power of the enemy. There must be at least one key character that dies in the game to the shock of everyone;
- Harder difficulty (You fall off a cliff, you die, plain and simple, considerably more powerful enemies, some almost killing you with one swipe and rubies/hearts being a lot more scarce with necessity items being much more expensive. Bosses should take 20,30,40 hits to die, not 3 hit death pushovers);
- Huge array of inventory/items to collect, with some new ones to boot, some hidden, some can only be bought. But all items should have multiple and important uses, not be used for a dungeon and then be useless;
- Orchestrated Music (No Midi) with voice acting for EVERY character (perhaps excluding Link);
- Online multiplayer mode with modes such as head to head swordfighting (see who really is the best hero), Links Crossbow Training style shootout (points shooting gallery & deathmatch), horse racing on Epona(s) and more all with online leaderboards;
- A virtual console code included with the special edition of the game to be able to download every LOZ game released on there for free OR include another Zelda - Collectors Edition disc but with even more than what was on there last time;
If any of the above is missing, the game will be a failure both critically and commercially..."
What a dope. But I bet many of the gaming media would agree. This is why fans can't be in charge to make games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 22, 2009, 07:22:15 PM
now, i'm not sure why.. but i don't think zap likes that idea..
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on November 22, 2009, 08:35:23 PM
It's like that dude has never played a Zelda game before.
If we're making wishlists, at the top of mine would be smarter, tougher enemies /bosses and a wider variety of them. Link learned a bunch of cool new moves in TP and you don't really need to use any of them, except on the Dark Nuts and there were like 4 in the whole game.
Then...
- a smarter story. Cutscenes no longer than 5 minutes, preferably less than 1. I like playing videogames. - bring back the magic cape from A Link to the Past - NO fetch quests. In fact, NO collecting stupid bugs and trinkets AT ALL. - don't force players to catch fish in the tutorial. WTF was the point of that in Twlight Princess?
Otherwise, I trust Nintendo to make a coherent Zelda game. They've been doing it pretty consistently for some 20+ years. The enemy AI, nonexistant/predictable plot, lame tutorial, and the collectathons were basically the only major choices I wished they did differently. And I just like the magic cape so that's why that's in there.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 22, 2009, 08:54:28 PM
It's like that dude has never played a Zelda game before.
If we're making wishlists, at the top of mine would be smarter, tougher enemies /bosses and a wider variety of them. Link learned a bunch of cool new moves in TP and you don't really need to use any of them, except on the Dark Nuts and there were like 4 in the whole game.
Then...
- a smarter story. Cutscenes no longer than 5 minutes, preferably less than 1. I like playing videogames. - bring back the magic cape from A Link to the Past - NO fetch quests. In fact, NO collecting stupid bugs and trinkets AT ALL. - don't force players to catch fish in the tutorial. WTF was the point of that in Twlight Princess?
Otherwise, I trust Nintendo to make a coherent Zelda game. They've been doing it pretty consistently for some 20+ years. The enemy AI, nonexistant/predictable plot, lame tutorial, and the collectathons were basically the only major choices I wished they did differently. And I just like the magic cape so that's why that's in there.
actually those sweet moves Link learns in TP actually originated in the Capcom made Minish Cap via scrolls. I think TP maybe added one or two new moves, but it's been awhile since i played either game so i'm not positive.
also, the fishing in the tuturial came in handy later one when (and i dont think i have to spoil this but just in case..) when you have to find that scale or something... something with that prince of zoras. god its been so long since i played TP. point is, i forgot how i even got the fishing in the tutorial to work, so much so that by the time i got to th is part in the game i felt screwed and started a second save file just to get to that part of the tuturial again and see how the hel they wanted me to use the lame fishing pole.
and yes, link needs a cape. might as well bring back the magic canes too! if you dont like the canes, then how about some pegasus boots??
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 22, 2009, 11:35:18 PM
Ugh, now people are turning Link into MARTH.
UGH
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on November 23, 2009, 12:36:14 AM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 23, 2009, 01:06:11 AM
I'm replaying Majora's Mask as we speak and one thing I've noticed is the multiple steps it takes to complete a temple. What I mean is, leading up to the temple there are so many things you have to do. These aren't sidequests, more like dominos you have to go through. It really feels like your adventuring since you have no clue what you'll need to do next. It's really wonderful how creative this game is.
Secondly, the enemies are hard as hell sometimes. I've found myself on the brink of death more than a couple times.
Thirdly, the sidequests are some of the best ever. The NPC - three day interaction is very clever. Aunoma basically said "here's 20 people. Find out how to get 20 masks"
So far, it's been a blast.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 23, 2009, 01:22:07 AM
I never did get all the mask in that game. I was close, but I don't think i got much more than 70%.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on November 23, 2009, 01:45:12 AM
I'm replaying Majora's Mask as we speak and one thing I've noticed is the multiple steps it takes to complete a temple. What I mean is, leading up to the temple there are so many things you have to do. These aren't sidequests, more like dominos you have to go through. It really feels like your adventuring since you have no clue what you'll need to do next. It's really wonderful how creative this game is.
Secondly, the enemies are hard as hell sometimes. I've found myself on the brink of death more than a couple times.
Thirdly, the sidequests are some of the best ever. The NPC - three day interaction is very clever. Aunoma basically said "here's 20 people. Find out how to get 20 masks"
So far, it's been a blast.
Koizumi was the one responsible for the NPC interaction. He also:
Made the entire Golden Realm mythos in Link To The Past. The story in Link's Awakening. The basic storyline and NPC development in Ocarina of time. Ditto for Majora's Mask. Ditto twice for Wind Waker, even if he didn't get enough time.
The Zelda franchises owes more to Koizumi then it does to Aunoma.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on November 23, 2009, 02:13:35 AM
How come everybody calls NinGurl69 "Pro"?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2009, 02:15:46 AM
I'm replaying Majora's Mask as we speak and one thing I've noticed is the multiple steps it takes to complete a temple. What I mean is, leading up to the temple there are so many things you have to do. These aren't sidequests, more like dominos you have to go through. It really feels like your adventuring since you have no clue what you'll need to do next. It's really wonderful how creative this game is.
Secondly, the enemies are hard as hell sometimes. I've found myself on the brink of death more than a couple times.
Thirdly, the sidequests are some of the best ever. The NPC - three day interaction is very clever. Aunoma basically said "here's 20 people. Find out how to get 20 masks"
So far, it's been a blast.
Koizumi was the one responsible for the NPC interaction. He also:
Made the entire Golden Realm mythos in Link To The Past. The story in Link's Awakening. The basic storyline and NPC development in Ocarina of time. Ditto for Majora's Mask. Ditto twice for Wind Waker, even if he didn't get enough time.
The Zelda franchises owes more to Koizumi then it does to Aunoma.
Wow, he is responsible for my favorite Zelda classics...Link's Awakening, ALttP and Majora...he's my Zelda hero.
I never did get all the mask in that game. I was close, but I don't think i got much more than 70%.
Don't you need them all to get the freaking-amazing-should-have-been-in-Brawl-as-Link's-Final-Smash Fierce Deity mask? I would suggest going back and getting them all just to experience that awesomisity of Fierce Deity Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on November 23, 2009, 04:40:50 AM
Don't you need them all to get the freaking-amazing-should-have-been-in-Brawl-as-Link's-Final-Smash Fierce Deity mask? I would suggest going back and getting them all just to experience that awesomisity of Fierce Deity Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 23, 2009, 05:21:02 PM
Wow, he is responsible for my favorite Zelda classics...Link's Awakening, ALttP and Majora...he's my Zelda hero.
Hey now, he doesn't deserve that much credit for Awakening and ALttP. Yeah he worked on the storyline for both of those games but he wasn't responsible for any of the gameplay.
If your going to praise Link's Awakening and Link to the Past, then Takashi Tezuka is the man you need to be praising. Tezuka was the director of both of those games and resposible for the actual design and gameplay. Not to mention Tezuka was a producer on both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. It also turns out he was a producer on Wind Waker as well and a supervisor for Twilight Princess.
Tezuka is the most underrated person at Nintendo. Mostly because all the games he worked on where with Miyamoto and as a result, most people give Miyamoto all the credit, even though Tezuka played just as big if not an even bigger role. Now the Mario fans over the years have finally credited him which is nice, but the Zelda fanbase continues to ignore him.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 23, 2009, 06:01:13 PM
mmm fierce deity link... mmm
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 23, 2009, 09:02:01 PM
It's become readily apparent that the Zelda series must be destroyed along with this game industry.
To accelerate this change, the new Wii Zelda title will be called,
NEW LEGEND OF ZELDA PLUS: TWILIGHT TWINK
Link will be modeled after and fully voiced by the dude from Twilight, expanding Nintendo's audience even further.
Link will sport all-new biting and sucking mechanics, as he now transforms into a VAMPYRE WOLFBAT, who gets walked around town by the living Master Sword Girl who has Link on a leash at all times. Link no longer has a Master Sword to swing, so he must do battle with evil using his teeth and other acquired powers.
Wii Zelda takes a cue from the DS Zeldas' note-taking featuring, allowing Link to mark his territory so you can easily re-identify things and places of interest.
Link visually doesn't transform into a WOLFBAT, the Twighlight guy 3D model will simply get on all-fours and go about his business.
Pre-order Now.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on November 23, 2009, 09:51:59 PM
castlevania was ahead of the game with emo vampires
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 23, 2009, 10:17:44 PM
Crapplevania doesn't have celebrity tie-ins like this new Zelda does. It only catered to the emo manchildren.
Nintendo is an AND company, and will bring in all those young females that like to scratch themselves on the neck.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on November 23, 2009, 10:26:51 PM
If your going to praise Link's Awakening and Link to the Past, then Takashi Tezuka is the man you need to be praising. Tezuka was the director of both of those games and resposible for the actual design and gameplay. Not to mention Tezuka was a producer on both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. It also turns out he was a producer on Wind Waker as well and a supervisor for Twilight Princess.
Hmm, so what's he doing now?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 24, 2009, 12:35:32 AM
If your going to praise Link's Awakening and Link to the Past, then Takashi Tezuka is the man you need to be praising. Tezuka was the director of both of those games and resposible for the actual design and gameplay. Not to mention Tezuka was a producer on both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. It also turns out he was a producer on Wind Waker as well and a supervisor for Twilight Princess.
Hmm, so what's he doing now?
I looked on Wikipedia but it doesn't list any current works, but the entry was an eye-opener:
Quote
His work extends far back to Devil World on which he took on the role of Director. Later, he directed or co-directed games such as the Japanese version of Super Mario Bros. 2, The Legend of Zelda (also Graphic Designer), Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening, Yoshi's Island and Super Mario 64. He was also Supervisor to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask and has served as either Producer, Director, Designer or Supervisor in all major Mario games, including New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy as well as outsourced projects like Yoshi's Island DS (developed by Artoon). He also worked on the Animal Crossing series as Producer and in the Pikmin series as Producer and Progress Manager. He was also Advisor of the Japan-only Game Boy Advance title, Sakura Momoko no Ukiuki Carnival.
Tezuka's wife was the inspiration for the Boo, a ghost-like enemy in the Mario series. Like Boos, she is often shy but one day became very angry at him for spending too much time at work.
Wow...now here is my true video game hero.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 24, 2009, 12:46:04 AM
Quote
Tezuka's wife was the inspiration for the Boo, a ghost-like enemy in the Mario series. Like Boos, she is often shy but one day became very angry at him for spending too much time at work.
So I take it he was afraid to turn his back on her and often sleeps with one eye open(especially after she discovers the inspiration behind the Boo's)?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 24, 2009, 10:58:35 AM
So Tezuka is like Jerry Seinfeld while Miyamoto is like Larry David?
Sweet.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 24, 2009, 03:44:06 PM
He probably played a big role in New Super Mario Bros Wii. For New Super Mario Bros DS he was the General Producer and pretty much had to train a whole team of rookie employee's since the veterans were busy working on Mario Galaxy.
This is why the DS version was very basic because it was pretty much Tezuka teaching people how to make a Mario game. Since the team got good experience off the DS version, this is why New Super Mario Bros Wii is a much better game.
Since Tezuka was the one who trained this new Mario team, I imagine he was working on NSMBW as well in order to see how far his students had come.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 24, 2009, 05:55:05 PM
So Tezuka San is quite possibly involved in the new Zelda. That is an exciting possibility considering his previous work in the series. Hopefully he and Koizumi are working in this one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 24, 2009, 06:08:10 PM
Working on Zelda "not very good" nowadays.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 24, 2009, 07:55:23 PM
It's become readily apparent that the Zelda series must be destroyed along with this game industry.
To accelerate this change, the new Wii Zelda title will be called,
NEW LEGEND OF ZELDA PLUS: TWILIGHT TWINK
Link will be modeled after and fully voiced by the dude from Twilight, expanding Nintendo's audience even further.
Link will sport all-new biting and sucking mechanics, as he now transforms into a VAMPYRE WOLFBAT, who gets walked around town by the living Master Sword Girl who has Link on a leash at all times. Link no longer has a Master Sword to swing, so he must do battle with evil using his teeth and other acquired powers.
Wii Zelda takes a cue from the DS Zeldas' note-taking featuring, allowing Link to mark his territory so you can easily re-identify things and places of interest.
Link visually doesn't transform into a WOLFBAT, the Twighlight guy 3D model will simply get on all-fours and go about his business.
Pre-order Now.
i already made this joke in the fake rumour thread!
Also, replace Tezuka with Iizuka and he becomes the forefather for everything wrong with Sonic.
Today, sorta...
check the general chat thread
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 26, 2009, 12:46:26 PM
I was thinking about this for a while now. Would flight not be an awesome and game playing addition to the Zelda series? And not just getting carried by the owls and such. But a real winged Link, or riding some kind of eagle/owl or any other mythical creature.
As far as getting from one place to another I think that would be amazing!
Now read this from www.n-europe.com
"The last few weeks have been rife with tidbits about the secretive next Zelda title, currently in development for Wii. The game will utilise MotionPlus and apparently differ from the usual structure of a Zelda title.
But perhaps even more intriguing is this comment from Zelda series director Eiji Aonuma on Link's method of transport for the upcoming game. Talking to The Guardian, he commented:
"I have an eight-year-old son myself at home, and quite recently he started playing Phantom Hourglass for DS, because when the software first hit the market he was too young. When he started playing with the boat, I told him: 'In the next Zelda, you are going to be able to ride on the train.' He answered: 'OK, Dad, first boat, and then train? Surely next time, Link is going to fly in the sky ... '"
At this point Aonuma paused, grining saying: "I just don't know. If many people make many speculations ... some of them might be correct. Right now, I have to refrain from commenting on anything."'
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=13703
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on November 26, 2009, 01:02:25 PM
caterkiller that might as well be a kid icarus game!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 26, 2009, 01:11:33 PM
Well I was thinking in the over world Llink would be able to use what ever ability to fly. Not in dungeons and towns of course, just a means of travel, fighting and puzzle solving in the main hub. If he rode on top of some animal I think that would be perfect.
Man does no one here care that Aonuma himself hinted at the possibility of flight in our next Zelda?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Monteblanco on November 27, 2009, 09:36:49 AM
Link already did some flight related moves in Twilight Princess, such as being thrown by cannons, riding condors like birds and even parachuting with chickens. I would bet the new mechanic would be some ballooning replacing the cannons.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 27, 2009, 12:39:08 PM
Well I was thinking in the over world Llink would be able to use what ever ability to fly. Not in dungeons and towns of course, just a means of travel, fighting and puzzle solving in the main hub. If he rode on top of some animal I think that would be perfect.
Man does no one here care that Aonuma himself hinted at the possibility of flight in our next Zelda?
Cater...I think there is something you should read.
Why Zelda will probably be the best game ever -- Part 1 (http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22630)
Why Zelda will probably be the best game ever -- Part 2 (http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23546)
These are two posts I wrote on another forum detailing why I thought the next Zelda will potentially be the best one yet. Interestingly enough, in Part 2, I mention the ability to fly.
Check em' out when you're bored.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on November 27, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
Thank you Kashogi, and Monteblanco those things don't count at all. Those things are on rails, parashuting, or nothing all together(cannons). What Aonuma is probably hinting at is a full blown gameplay mechanic which allows freedom in travel. How could anyone think those other things count as flight and Aonuma is mentioning more of that is just beyond me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 27, 2009, 01:49:55 PM
Your talking about an Epona in the sky?
That's exactly what I was thinking, although I think it should be a slender dragon like those in Chinese and Japanese myths.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 27, 2009, 04:01:02 PM
A Pegasus creature could fit the bill as well.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on November 27, 2009, 05:35:24 PM
God of War II already did that almost 3 years ago...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on November 27, 2009, 08:20:00 PM
As long as I don't have to change the direction of the wind.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 28, 2009, 02:43:10 AM
Just waggle to make the wings flap.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 28, 2009, 03:00:23 AM
Curse you all once again for discussing flight possibilites in a joking manner, as well as not discussing my(confirmed by me) voice acting theory!
You read it here first! Voice acting as well as flight, the clues all fit!
you know, i think we should hear cater' out, it all makes sense!
the next zelda is gonna have a flying companion for link, and boy is it a talkative one! Link will use his new campanion to introduce flight to the tired old zelda mechanic, as well as extensive* voice acting, a first for the series!
*only links new companion will end up talking, it'll be known as the King of Red Flions
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on November 29, 2009, 06:52:24 PM
Hooray, more new elements for Zeltards to rant about!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on November 29, 2009, 06:56:29 PM
huzzah!
HUZZAH!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on November 29, 2009, 07:47:46 PM
Hooray for exploring the sky! Where there's even fewer things to see than on the ocean!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on November 29, 2009, 08:07:08 PM
There's only one thing wrong with flying and that's the unparalleled access to areas.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 29, 2009, 08:24:02 PM
Hooray for exploring the sky! Where there's even fewer things to see than on the ocean!
Quote from: Kashogi Y. Stogi
There's only one thing wrong with flying and that's the unparalleled access to areas.
Don't forget Skies of Arcadia. That took place in the sky and there was plenty to see and do and also creative ways to restrict travel.
I would guess that Nintendo would more likely give Link a flying vessel over the physical ability to fly.
Though if they did give link flight and wings you could make it be a power that gets progressively stronger over the course of the game.
It starts out like the leaf in Wind Waker where you can only glide and you have to use wind vortexes to gain altitude. Then when you can gain altitude yourself you have a limited stamina/magic bar. Perhaps it could be similar to the Greek Icarus story where you have to collect feathers and wax to create your wings and to fly again you need to gather more. If they did give link wax/feather wings you could make heat a challenge/obstacle because heat would melt his wings.
There are a number of ways to restrict flight movement.
I think it would be more fitting to the series to give him a flying ship instead. It could make the perfect jump for the next DS Zelda. First a boat like Wind Waker, then a train (wtf?...) then an airship. It could start with a young Link tying balloons to a crate to fly but he gets better parts/ships down the road. Hot air balloons are a reasonable possibility. I know one of the newer Mummy movies had a zeppelin-like ship that used a rocket or something for propulsion.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on November 29, 2009, 08:32:07 PM
No. The overworld should be compressed and warping should be instantaneous, minimizing transportation times.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on November 29, 2009, 08:38:43 PM
It's a Zelda game. I really doubt they will shrink the overworld like that. Maybe add some warps, but wandering around the overwolrd and exploring is half the fun in a Zelda game. One of my favorite moments is when they first let you run free in the overworld and you see how far and lost you can get before you start doing what you are supposed to do. I like finding stuff that usually doesn't get uncovered until later.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on November 30, 2009, 04:39:43 PM
thats a good post Kashogi. right now I'm working on my portfolio, and its tough. I'v been working on all sorts of things for a year. Drawings, novels, movie scripts, game ideas. I am like the super ADD and its hard to have any sort of focus. Recently I started playing through Zelda again and it got me thinking. Where did it all start?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on December 01, 2009, 04:20:37 PM
I love Zelda as well as games with unrestricted flight, so this news has indeed sent my mind reeling. What's most exciting is the potential for exploring a new overworld in three full dimensions. I love games that provide big worlds with lots of little nooks containing secrets that are actually worth finding. Zelda games have become increasingly poor at giving us interesting places to discover and interesting rewards for those efforts. The great thing about flying is that it may allow the overworld to be built upwards, with hidden caves and coves at various levels. This has been done with limited success in games like Final Fantasy 7-9 and Dragon Quest 8 (my favorite to explore), but I think the Zelda designers can take 3D world exploration to a new level if they make it a priority.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 02, 2009, 11:00:46 AM
Not if they have to listen to their whiny Zelda fanbase.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 02, 2009, 12:22:46 PM
which hopefully they learned their lesson last time and WONT
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 02, 2009, 01:31:23 PM
The handheld Zeldas haven't really suffered that setback since the handheld crowds are less demanding. Toilet Princess, on the other hand, suffered because Nintendo wanted to please the whiny Zeltards.
Face it, Nintendo can never please them no matter how brilliant they make something. On the other hand, Mario Galaxy hasn't received that much whining.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 02, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
Of course, twilight princess was one of the best zeldas ever, so it's hardly like it makes much difference...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 02, 2009, 08:10:42 PM
Of course, twilight princess was one of the best zeldas ever, so it's hardly like it makes much difference...
It was also predictable, and also was OoT 2.0 with more shades of REALISM.
On the contrary, I thought TP was a far better game than OoT or WW. Not for the presentation (though of course that was a huge improvement over OoT), but for the tone and to some degree characterization -- Midna and the twilight realm (or whatever it was called, I forget) were fascinating and compelling, and really made the game (Midna is one of the best game characters I've seen in ages, in any game). The dual wolf/link thing was very cool too, and made the game more interesting. The non-twilight parts were well designed and a lot of fun, but of course pretty traditional.
At the time early in the game when you're clambering across the castle roof in twilight, I just went "wow!", because it seemed so cool, and so unlike any experience I'd had in a zelda game before.
[Note that I liked the WW "look" a lot, and some of the plot elements (the whole concept of "the old hyrule lying under the sea, waiting..."), but as a game, WW was kinda meh, and overall seemed just as by-the-numbers as other zeldas.]
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dasmos on December 02, 2009, 09:34:43 PM
But Wind Waker is the best Zelda after Link's Awakening.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 02, 2009, 10:37:40 PM
its really hard to say what the best zelda game is, it really depends on which order you play the games in, and your tastes.
I played OOT first, but never could quite get into a Link to the Past. I loved TP, but there was some combat stuff I liked about Wind Waker that didn't return for TP. I really missed using the minions weapons. The biggest complaint about TP is obviously how much its based on OOT(which itself is like a 3d version of lttp)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 02, 2009, 10:53:37 PM
its really hard to say what the best zelda game is, it really depends on which order you play the games in, and your tastes.
Sure. Anyway, the point is basically that although there certainly was too much silly whining about WW's look, and no doubt TP's look was partially in reaction to that, the conclusion Peachylala seems to be pushing, that TP is thus an inferior game, is absurd. TP stands on its own quite well, and is in many ways arguably a better game than WW.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 02, 2009, 11:28:46 PM
I really want a WiiMake of Wind Waker that is a directors cut that has the content that was deleted since they had to rush the game. I am biased towards the Celdas. Yes, it makes me suck... yeah.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 02, 2009, 11:58:21 PM
I guess TP is OK as a "my first Zelda" in the vein of Where's Waldo being a starting point for bookworms.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 03, 2009, 12:00:07 AM
Where's Waldo didn't have a crappy cartoo-oh wait...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 03, 2009, 12:08:38 AM
It was a hip cartoon. So hip, it taught me you don't need books if you've got it on TV.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 03, 2009, 01:13:20 PM
I read somewhere that the Waldo author/illustrator managed to sometimes get crap past the radar.
Nintendo doesn't have that option since the Zeltards breath down their necks like hawks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on December 03, 2009, 01:14:43 PM
"breath down their necks like hawks."
When has a hawk ever done that?
Maybe a parrot or something.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 03, 2009, 01:30:41 PM
Zeltards are a different species of hawk all together.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on December 08, 2009, 01:52:02 PM
Something else Aonuma said about Zelda recently. Source IGN. http://www.ignwii.com/
"With Twilight Princess, we challenged ourself to create the most vast and realistic world the series had ever seen, but we don't feel that we were able to fully complete this objective. With that as a starting point for our improvements to the series in the future, we are of course working on a new game for Wii."
"For any game to be remembered for a long time, just like Ocarina of Time was, the game must give the strong impression that it has set a new starting point for future sequels to build upon. We are working to further improve upon the experiences found in Twilight Princess so that our future games can realize these innovations."
Ok so this game is no doubt going to be even more realistic graphicly then TP. I guess thats fine, as long as it doesn't look like everything else out there. I just want to be able to at a location and marvel at how imaginitive it is. P in some cases looked way to real and generic for me. Like the fire temple for one. I do not like going through that temple one little bit!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 08, 2009, 01:54:13 PM
I want a colorful realistic game, not something shaded in BROWN.
God help us if Aonuma decides to follow what every other HD developer does.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 08, 2009, 06:01:28 PM
God help us if Aonuma decides to follow what every other HD developer does.
Don't worry, if you look at the concept art that Miyamoto showed of the game at E3, Link isn't bald and sporting a 36-pack.
So we're safe.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 08, 2009, 06:48:28 PM
Sounds to me like they just want to make the new 'definitive' Zelda. I don't interpret that as meaning the most realistic graphics. OoT was the definitive game of its time, not because it had the most realistic graphics. Rather it brought us arguably the best, most charming 3D world at the time. If I was aiming to make the next definitive edition, I'd try to make the world feel the most 'alive'. This doesn't require realism, a strong theme in Zelda is the sense of magic and I would start there. I felt like TP lacked in charm, it just felt a little too generic.
Of course right now I'm just talking about the world, while I still think the design of the game has to be freshened.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 08, 2009, 08:11:21 PM
The genericness of TP had to do with the fact that Nintendo went out of their way to please the Zeltards, who wanted it to be OoT 2.0.
Don't listen to the whiny fans Nintendo. Please!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 08, 2009, 09:19:48 PM
i'm kinda getting sick of that term >:(
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 09, 2009, 02:29:43 AM
Let's just pretend I used the word "uninspired".
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on December 09, 2009, 02:40:33 AM
I think the motion + use is going to be the new starting point for sequels to build on that he talks about. Right now I am picturing the new Zelda as kind of like Wii Adventure. It will take most of the games from Resort (sword, bow, canoe even tennis to knock back an enemy's fireball, maybe bowling to use bomb chus), add a few new ones and put them into the Zelda game as the controls.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on December 09, 2009, 03:33:54 AM
I think the motion + use is going to be the new starting point for sequels to build on that he talks about. Right now I am picturing the new Zelda as kind of like Wii Adventure. It will take most of the games from Resort (sword, bow, canoe even tennis to knock back an enemy's fireball, maybe bowling to use bomb chus), add a few new ones and put them into the Zelda game as the controls.
So Link could possibly be visiting WuHu Island in his next game. We could see WuHu in the ancient past as a sort or re-imagining of Koholint Island from Link's Awakening. I always wanted to see a sequel of sorts to Awakening.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 09, 2009, 01:06:12 PM
I think the motion + use is going to be the new starting point for sequels to build on that he talks about. Right now I am picturing the new Zelda as kind of like Wii Adventure. It will take most of the games from Resort (sword, bow, canoe even tennis to knock back an enemy's fireball, maybe bowling to use bomb chus), add a few new ones and put them into the Zelda game as the controls.
So Link could possibly be visiting WuHu Island in his next game. We could see WuHu in the ancient past as a sort or re-imagining of Koholint Island from Link's Awakening. I always wanted to see a sequel of sorts to Awakening.
I already talked about Link being on an island, GO ME!
i do agree that Nintendo need not listen to their whiny "hardcore" audience.
But note that this includes not listening to the whining about how great the cel-shading was and how TP was a sellout -- whether anti- or pro-cel-shading, it's the same annoying type of person doing the moaning. The bulk of the audience probably doesn't care either way.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 09, 2009, 07:53:44 PM
Quote
[disclaimer: I liked WW, though it wasn't as good as TP; I'll be happy whichever style Nintendo uses for a sequel.]
Consoles have realism, handhelds have cel-shading.
A pity, because cel-shading look best on the console.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on December 10, 2009, 01:23:21 AM
When he says "realism", he doesn't mean Resident Evil 5. He said in TP they wanted to make the most realistic game, yet half of the game feature a twilight world that looked unrealistic, yet incredible.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on December 10, 2009, 01:53:02 AM
I thought the twilight world looked pretty "bleh". And as far as realism goes maybe I'm wrong but I remember the enemies in WW being so alive! They cowered when you pulled out a bomb! They get excited when a weapon hits the ground and dash for it! TP made things more realistic with the motion capture and graphical style yes, but it went backwards with the zombie enemies.
And Zelda 1 style? It's just way too open to figure anything out. I would love for there to be all kinds of things that can be done without doing dungeon after dungeon. But there was too much space of nothing in the original to know what was supposed to be done.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 10, 2009, 04:30:52 AM
Zelda1 is a prime example of simple actio-adventuro without HAND-HOLDING.
I hated walking into WW and TP dungeons and feeling like I had the main puzzle "figured out" just by seeing the key architecture or the map or seeing the place was just an obvious "tower" or "hole." I want MYSTERY brought back to the console series.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on December 10, 2009, 01:46:38 PM
Twilight Princess is only realistic in the sense that it has a graphic style that somewhat resembles real life. The idea being that if skeletons were coming at you with swords and shields it would look something like this. Though even then there is slight anime look to it. But then Metal Gear Solid and Soul Calibur have a slight anime look to them as well. It appears to be a Japanese developer thing, which I prefer. Boring looking realistic games are usually made by American developers. But the important thing is a realistic style does not mean being devoid of anything spectacular and wonderous. Link is still in a fantasy world with all sorts of unique scenery that does not exist in the real world.
The cel-shaded Zelda looks like a cartoon. I think that's the key difference. If both Cube Zelda games were made into films one would be animated and the other would not be. Preferring the realistic style is no different than having the option of a film being made as a cartoon or with real actors and you want real actors. Doesn't mean that the real-life movie will be devoid of fantasy elements.
And I can't stand when anyone suggests that Twilight Princess's shortcomings were a direct response to what Zelda fans wanted. No one asked for the same exact areas that we already visited in Ocarina of Time. All anyone said is that they didn't like the cartoon look, didn't feel it fit Zelda and wanted a style more like the one that Nintendo themselves presented at Spaceworld. NO ONE said "I want Ocarina of Time 1.5". That was Nintendo's choice alone. It is not a restriction of the graphics style or anything like that. And only a smug ASSHOLE points at it and says "this is what you wanted."
If a fan of the cel-shaded style didn't like the DS games because of the controls I wouldn't act like that was the game he wanted because I recognize that the graphics style and the controls are unrelated. The crappy dungeon you have to go through every time in Phantom Hourglass isn't a pro for the realistic style side. It's merely a game design choice Nintendo made that they could have made for ANY Zelda game regardless of what it looks like.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 10, 2009, 04:55:12 PM
And I can't stand when anyone suggests that Twilight Princess's shortcomings were a direct response to what Zelda fans wanted. No one asked for the same exact areas that we already visited in Ocarina of Time. All anyone said is that they didn't like the cartoon look, didn't feel it fit Zelda and wanted a style more like the one that Nintendo themselves presented at Spaceworld. NO ONE said "I want Ocarina of Time 1.5". That was Nintendo's choice alone. It is not a restriction of the graphics style or anything like that. And only a smug ASSHOLE points at it and says "this is what you wanted."
Did you ever visit sites like Gamefaqs back in 2003? A lot of the haters on these sites did want a Zelda like you described. Hell, back in 2003, I remember a lot of people saying they wished Nintendo would just remake Ocarina of Time instead of make Wind Waker 2
Well during 2003, Aonuma was working on Wind Waker 2 until the end of the year when the higher ups at Nintendo had him cancel the project in favor of making a realistic Zelda to appeal more to the North American fanbase. Believe it or not, Nintendo does have employees who lurk the larger internet message boards in order to find out what the fans like and don't like, and send that data to the higher ups.
Well if Aonuma wanted to find out what the America fans wanted, I'd image he'd look at what the people on the American boards were saying. And since back in 2003, these sites were filled with people wanting either Ocarina of Time 2 or a Ocarina Remake, it's not hard to see why Twilight Princess was made as close to Ocarina of Time as possible.
Just because you didn't want Twilight Princess to be a Ocarina sequel, doesn't mean there wasn't many more who did. And since the fanboys that wanted Ocarina of Time 2/Remake outnumbered everyone else, those were the fanboys who's voice ended up being heard the loudest in the end.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on December 10, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
Quote
Did you ever visit sites like Gamefaqs back in 2003? A lot of the haters on these sites did want a Zelda like you described. Hell, back in 2003, I remember a lot of people saying they wished Nintendo would just remake Ocarina of Time instead of make Wind Waker 2
Well during 2003, Aonuma was working on Wind Waker 2 until the end of the year when the higher ups at Nintendo had him cancel the project in favor of making a realistic Zelda to appeal more to the North American fanbase. Believe it or not, Nintendo does have employees who lurk the larger internet message boards in order to find out what the fans like and don't like, and send that data to the higher ups.
Well if Aonuma wanted to find out what the America fans wanted, I'd image he'd look at what the people on the American boards were saying. And since back in 2003, these sites were filled with people wanting either Ocarina of Time 2 or a Ocarina Remake, it's not hard to see why Twilight Princess was made as close to Ocarina of Time as possible.
Just because you didn't want Twilight Princess to be a Ocarina sequel, doesn't mean there wasn't many more who did. And since the fanboys that wanted Ocarina of Time 2/Remake outnumbered everyone else, those were the fanboys who's voice ended up being heard the loudest in the end.
I don't visit the Gamefaqs boards because the people who post there are idiots. When deciding what to do regarding the next Zelda game who would you listen to? People who just spout off "MORE LIKE CELDA!!! M I RITE?" and make impulsive immature outbursts with no thought put behind them or someone who makes an effort to like the game despite the visuals and merely states that they would prefer the realistic style and makes well-thought-out criticisms about the game with some sort of mature explanation behind them? The people who just blurted out "I WANT MORE OOT" are idiots and if Nintendo listened to them instead of, for example, people on THIS board or the Penny Arcade board or other places where people have rational discussion, then they're idiots as well. Nintendo might as well be making decisions based on YouTube comments.
When listening to one's fanbase one must be smart enough to read into what people REALLY want. No one TRULY wants more Ocarina of Time. They THINK they do because they don't think enough about it and don't understand why they like Ocarina of Time in the first place. They just know they like it so they ask for more. But what they REALLY want is the feeling that OoT gave them and so much of that experience was the fact that OoT was such a vastly different game than anything else available at the time. The newness of it was key. So I would say that Nintendo still didn't give anybody what they wanted because they failed to interpret what the issue really was. They catered to people who didn't know why they were complaining in the first place.
Nintendo could have just given us Super Mario 64 2 in response to Super Mario Sunshine backlash but they didn't and we got a better game as a result. They listened to complainers who never even gave the game a chance regarding Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime Hunters was the result. You have to filter the responses to determine who is expressing an informed opinion and who is just being a close-minded idiot spouting off whatever immediately comes to mind.
Though it probably doesn't help that those who preferred Wind Waker are often very defensive about it and are quick to lash out at all criticism of it, including that which has nothing to do with the graphics like the sailing and the Triforce fetch-quest. I feel that hurts that side of the argument and gives the impression that Wind Waker praise is a fanatical response to criticism against Nintendo. So Nintendo has to wade through one group of people who think Wind Waker is completely perfect in every way and another group that says it sucks but can provide no real substancial reason why it sucks. And buried within that are the people with rational opinions, who Nintendo should have focused on but didn't.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 10, 2009, 06:27:12 PM
Rational is of the minority. Nintendo's not going to hear the minority, so tough luck.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on December 12, 2009, 02:47:13 AM
If that was the real Reggie who comes around here then we would be heard. This would have the be the best site for Nintendo to visit. Only like 20 of us really discuss anything about the games, and it's all gold! I speak as if I go to many other gaming forums, which I don't but my point still stands. We are the only truely aware people on the video game internet. Well not even that, the world!
If that really is you Reggie let the world know how we feel!
How come we keep getting these bits on Zelda when absolutely nothing has been seen but art? And Metroid had a full blown trailer and we aint heard squat since?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 12, 2009, 03:24:25 AM
Cuz all that Metroid and Zelda stuff from E3 was totally made-up. They didn't have a real game to show yet for either case. Non-Nintendo Japanese dev studios are experts at PROMOTIONAL TEASERS.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on December 12, 2009, 05:53:17 PM
Cuz all that Metroid and Zelda stuff from E3 was totally made-up. They didn't have a real game to show yet for either case. Non-Nintendo Japanese dev studios are experts at PROMOTIONAL TEASERS.
AKA most Sony devs? I remember there was quite the clamor over Killzone 2 among other 'big reveal' PS3 trailers in the past.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on December 12, 2009, 08:20:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't think that Zelda needs to change? I recently finished The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and I didn't find it to be stale or uninteresting at all despite how familiar everything is. And I'm a bit worried about what this "radical change" might be that they have in store for this game, as I haven't always been too thrilled with some of the ideas they've come up with. An example would be the sailing in The Wind Waker. It was fun to sail up to a new island for the first time or go treasure hunting in small doses, but all of the back and forth just became tedious and that Triforce hunt was lame. For me, a game doesn't need to do anything fresh or innovative to be enjoyable, it just has to be well-made.
My sister made a point which I thought was interesting. She thinks that the game over-explains some things and passes over other important details. Every time you collect bombs, the game explains how to equip and use them. Is anybody really going to forget how to set items with how frequently it is done? On the opposite side, there was a point in the game where there is a fence blocking a path, and you have to roll into it to knock it down. At no point in the game does it explain that you can roll into something to cause an effect. Those are the kinds of little things I hope they iron out with this one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 12, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
Zelda does change quite a bit from game to game, even if it keeps much of the formula as well. The people whining that it doesn't are obsessing over the bits that stay the same while ignoring the huge parts that don't...
You'd have to be a complete moron to think TP is just an "OOT retread", and yet people keep moaning that...
I put it down to "Matt Casmassina syndrome" -- some people just love to whine, and they'll latch onto anything that they think gives them an opening to do so.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 12, 2009, 11:05:32 PM
all zelda is
is a game about running around breaking into peoples houses, stealing their money going into a forest, fire, water, and occasionally horror themed dungeon finding items to get into dungeons going into a dungeon to find that all the doors are locked except one and that you have to go to the only unlocked door to find a key to another room fighting monsters for keys fighting monsters for items becoming a part of a strange fantastical race by helping them searching for bugs searching for hearts searching for secret caves searching for fairies horseback riding archery hook-shotting boomeranging sling shotting fencing floating with chickens, and if the are no chickens in the game magical leaf parachutes fighting big monsters bottles
and of course :moonface: :moonface: :moonface:
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on December 12, 2009, 11:12:42 PM
That was beautiful
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 13, 2009, 02:25:11 PM
do i recall correctly, there were no octorocks in TP where there?
THEY BROKE TRADITION! TP WAS MORE RADICALLY CHANGED THAN WE THOUGHT!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 13, 2009, 02:52:39 PM
I think there was Octrocks in Twilight Princess. It was in Zoras River and in the Lake as well.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 13, 2009, 08:54:31 PM
can you supply a pic to refresh my memory? i really don't remember any, or atleast don't remember blocking their stones with my sheild..
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on December 13, 2009, 09:57:36 PM
Yes, we know you didn't like TP. Because you've said so about 8,000 times on this thread alone.
We get it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 13, 2009, 10:15:04 PM
You don't miss the best Zelda game ever? I'm not joking, Twilight Princess is the game that anyone who calls themselves a Zelda fan NEEDS to play, still one of the best Wii games. I always hoped that Link would hook up with Ilia at the end of the game, even though I knew it was unlikely because Nintendo will always have him linked to Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 13, 2009, 10:18:55 PM
Yes, we know you didn't like TP. Because you've said so about 8,000 times on this thread alone.
We get it.
HATE IT x1000
i don't want to abuse copy and paste, they have weak self-esteem.
It's right up there with MGS4 (and 3).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on December 14, 2009, 12:07:05 AM
I thought TP was masterful. The enemies, the temples and the sidequests were all top notch. Plus it's by far the longest of any Zelda (I think it took me 70 hours to beat the first time through).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2009, 01:49:00 AM
Survey: Which system did you play Twilight Princess on, and did you like it?
I have a strategy guide for both games, and it is funny comparing some of the level designs. Right now im going thtrough the 3d Zelda games, and getting all the items before I move on to the next game. I'm almost done with Oot, i got all the hearts, but i need to get the rest of the skultildas. MM is next and then Windwaker, then Phantom Hourglass, and finally Twilight Princess for the replay.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2009, 01:53:19 AM
Survey A: Wii: it was good, but I lost interest shortly after the sky temple.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 14, 2009, 02:09:15 AM
I played the Wii Version. It was challenging at first because I was getting used to the controls still. Zelda:TP was my 3rd game Wii game I played. I beat the game over the weekend. Started on Friday night and played till Sunday night. I slept very little.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 14, 2009, 03:15:28 AM
I played TP on the gamecube, and loved it -- I thought it was by far the best zelda so far. Loved "twilight" (such a different feel compared to normal hyrule), loved Midna, loved the wolf-form, loved the more realistic and dramatic princess (who actually seemed like a real person in TP instead of a symbol), loved the graphics, loved the game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 14, 2009, 10:39:32 AM
Ww was awesome
Tp was awesome.
Zelda games are awesome
/thread
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: KDR_11k on December 14, 2009, 12:16:13 PM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on December 14, 2009, 01:23:43 PM
Quote
Am I the only one who doesn't think that Zelda needs to change?
I don't think Zelda needs a huge overhaul or anything like that. The core gameplay design of the series is the best for any game I've ever played.
I just felt that Twilight Princess, while a good game, was a little dull because they re-used so many elements from Ocarina of Time. I really like the exploration element of Zelda but when I'm guessing what's come up before I get there (Lake Hylia is probably around here... and there it is) then Nintendo is playing things a little too safe. I merely just wish they didn't think that stuff like having Ganon as the enemy (or being revealed as the TRUE enemy all along) or having the game take place in Hyrule and involve Zelda or the Triforce in some way is a requirement. I like how in Link's Awakening, Link is just having an unrelated adventure that doesn't take place in Hyrule, doesn't involve the fate of the whole world, and doesn't feature Zelda, Ganon or the Triforce in any way. It's just the further adventures of this guy named Link.
The original game, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess all essentially have the same exact story. Do you want Sherlock Holmes to solve the same case every time? No. I like it when Link visits a new world because then I have no clue who I'm going to meet and what's around the corner. That's what I'm looking for and if they do that along with the usual new ideas they incorporate into each Zelda, I'm satisfied. I just don't need the standard Hyrule-Zelda-Triforce-Ganon story retold again.
And if it ends up just the same story with the same characters and same setting again but with waggle controls? UGH. :(
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: KDR_11k on December 14, 2009, 03:24:37 PM
I've only played a quick demo kiosk edition of the Wii one. But it was developed as a Gamecube game so I view it as a Gamecube game first and foremost.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 14, 2009, 06:23:52 PM
It may have started as a GameCube game, but Nintendo made it clear that the Wii version is the main version (the definitive version, if you will).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 14, 2009, 07:00:24 PM
It may have started as a GameCube game, but Nintendo made it clear that the Wii version is the main version (the definitive version, if you will).
I'm sure they tried hard to make the Wii version good too, but the GC version was extremely polished -- the GC controls, in particular, were darn near perfect.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2009, 07:46:31 PM
It may have started as a GameCube game, but Nintendo made it clear that the Wii version is the main version (the definitive version, if you will).
In much the same way that RE4 Wii version in the definitive version. GC game (PS2 extras) Wii controls
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on December 14, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
I played it for GC on the Wii. (yes I bought the GC version over the Wii version)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on December 14, 2009, 08:51:51 PM
GameCube version is superior because of a left-handed Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 14, 2009, 09:22:53 PM
Wii version is superior because of Wii's IR pointer controls for the Bow. Being able to shoot a flaming arrow out of the sky while on horseback is equivalent of shooting sickles and grenades tossed at you from the Ganados in RE4:WE.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on December 14, 2009, 10:09:50 PM
If Link can't do it left-handed then it is no feat at all.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 14, 2009, 10:12:26 PM
pfft, whatevs dudette. Have fun playing with your ancient joysticks :P I'll be shooting **** with "pixel-perfect" aim in TEH FUTURE
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 14, 2009, 10:52:32 PM
pfft, whatevs dudette. Have fun playing with your ancient joysticks :P I'll be shooting **** with "pixel-perfect" aim in TEH FUTURE
OTOH, you'll waggle when you walk!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on December 14, 2009, 11:20:54 PM
I like the Wii version better but if I didn't buy the GC version, I wouldn't be able to still play it today.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Toruresu on December 14, 2009, 11:29:25 PM
Going back to the new Zelda...
I recently downloaded Zelda II and wow is it different from the original (seen it but never played it as a child) and I bet that at the time it came out, most people hated it. So far I'm liking it. Exploration, dungeons, combat, RP elements, magic, it's all there. What if the new Zelda was similar to this one (by that I mean more RPish)?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 14, 2009, 11:37:27 PM
I bet that at the time it came out, most people hated it.
That is an understatement. There was a huge backlash against the game because it had almost nothing to do with the first game despite being called Zelda II. Super Mario Bros. 2 got a similar reaction (having almost nothing to do with its predecessor).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 14, 2009, 11:41:56 PM
I hated the Zelda II. All teh side scrolling parts is what killed it for me. Same with Metal Gear 2: Snakes Revenge, I was not feeling a lot of the side scrolling mission in that game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Toruresu on December 14, 2009, 11:50:07 PM
So far Zelda II is a darn good different Zelda game and I'm sure thats what Nintendo is aiming for. Anyone else remember Miyamoto saying that TP was the "last Zelda of it's kind" or something along those lines?
I've made peace with the side scrolling in Zelda II, at first it was weird, but now that I'm at the 3rd palace, I love it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on December 15, 2009, 09:20:52 AM
So far Zelda II is a darn good different Zelda game and I'm sure thats what Nintendo is aiming for. Anyone else remember Miyamoto saying that TP was the "last Zelda of it's kind" or something along those lines?
I've made peace with the side scrolling in Zelda II, at first it was weird, but now that I'm at the 3rd palace, I love it.
I loved Zelda 2 when I was a kid. I'm glad I didn't have the internets back then so everyone could tell me how much they hated it. When I first heard the dislike for 2 a few years ago I was shocked. It really is a great game even though I could never find Shadow Link in the last dungeon.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caliban on December 15, 2009, 11:22:42 AM
Zelda II is awesome sauce, and the only thing I want to see in the new Wii Zelda is cel-shading to it's best with a grown-up Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on December 15, 2009, 11:31:21 AM
If Link can't do it left-handed then it is no feat at all.
This is the most important reason.
There is also the fact the game barely needs precision with the bow anyway. The control implementation is mediocre, but to be honest is the best they could do, it is still a GC game and as a wii game it suffers because of it.
After playing wiisports resort I'm excited for the bow and sword mechanics for the next Zelda, specially the bow, because nintendo kind of stole my idea, (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=15327.msg218964;topicseen#msg218961) (holy crap if I was mad at the port back then heh) I probably wasn't aware back then the remote was so limited in its tech and needed other addon.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on December 15, 2009, 12:14:07 PM
Zelda II comes across as a dated game but not really a bad game. So if they ever went back to that design that would pretty cool. Though I think I would prefer it as a one-off thing and not the new standard for 2D Zeldas. That's probably why the game wasn't so popular. I don't think anyone wanted that to be the Zelda formula. If it was used for a brand new game I'll bet the series would still exist today, or at the very least there would be a very vocal segment of Nintendo fans demanding its return (like Kid Icarus).
The real version of Twilight Princess is the Gamecube version. Nintendo can say it's the Wii version all they want but that doesn't make it true. Of COURSE they would say that. They were trying to sell you all a new console to play a game that you could play on your Gamecube. Aside from the game being developed originally for the Cube in the first place and then later moved to the Wii, the game is clearly designed for traditional controls. None of it is designed to take advantage of the remote, it's just mapping the Cube controls to waggle and pointing. The graphics are also identical so it makes no use of the Wii's improved hardware and the game itself was flipped for the Wii version. In the Cube version Link is left-handed and most of the map corresponds incredibly close to the map for Ocarina of Time which I'm sure was not an accident. The Wii version is just NPC Twilight Princess.
This new Zelda will be the first Wii Zelda. It will be designed from the ground up for the Wii and will make proper use of the Wii's unique features.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 15, 2009, 12:21:47 PM
Alright here are a few more details about the game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on December 15, 2009, 12:36:01 PM
Link is "already reproducing almost perfectly what you do with the remote and MotionPlus. Our team has already got a solid response from this aspect of the software." - significant change to the Zelda structure - hopeful for a showing at E3 2010 - well under development - MotionPlus was not even around when development on this project started, which had the team working on just how to include it partway through development - the final graphical style for the game hasn't yet been decided, and while a new style might be chosen, there are hints towards a more realistic approach - according to Aonuma, some of the internet speculation has been correct - Aonuma spent time playing Monster Hunter 3 to see what aspects really appeal most to the player
Wow, they havn't decided a graphical style yet? Now thats very interesting. For some reason I just keep expecting to see TP again as far as looks go, just cleaner. I wouldn't mind that, but can the colors just get a bit brighter and cheerier in some places? I like sunshine along with the gritty in a game like this. I can never forget how bright the sunshine is in OoT. Or that first time in Zora's domain, it just looked like a spa during the summer time. Day surely comes and goes in TP but the impression that I really remember is lots and lots of shade and earth tones.
Near perfect Wii mote control? and New Zelda structure? It has me very excited and would love to raise my hopes super duper high. I'm kinda wishing for the NSMB affect on myself, not being impressed by the first bit of footage, almost completely avoiding any videos after ward, getting the game and just becoming over whelmed with the pure enjoyment I get from the game.
But then again this is NEW Zelda, so nothing should come across as lame during the first impressions.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on December 15, 2009, 01:16:22 PM
Not planning on using Motion+ from the get-go makes me a little uneasy. Hopefully they were still early enough in development that they could add it for real and not just shoe-horn it in. Considering the amount of time still left between now and any assumed release date it was probably early enough that it was okay.
For graphics style I wouldn't mind a common ground between TP and WW. I really just don't like how WW looks like a Looney Tunes cartoon. I think I'm not looking for realism as much as more reverence. WW is too silly. It comes across as Nintendo not taking Zelda seriously or specifically catering it towards kids. Zelda can however be colourful and have some silly elements. It's like how the Lord of the Rings films have a few scenes of comic relief with Merry and Pippen but otherwise are pretty serious movies.
Majora's Mask is not as realistic as TP and has quite a few goofy elements (like TINGLE for example) but the overall storyline and atmosphere is very no-nonsense. I think it strikes a better balance than either of the Cube Zeldas.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 15, 2009, 01:17:22 PM
I'm pretty sure Miyamoto has said before that graphics are usually the last major element they worry about since they like to focus on gameplay first.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 15, 2009, 01:24:10 PM
Come on Ian if they didn't start making the game until Motion+ came around we would be waiting even longer for the release of the game. Besides as BlackNMild said they focus on the gameplay first and perfect it first.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on December 15, 2009, 02:00:36 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that they started this game the moment TP was done. Motion+ was no doubt in their minds but their developers were just not ready with it yet. Besides that i'm sure motion isn't the only thing thats going to be different as has been stated. Changing the formula must have been the first thing to happen.
I'm not worried at all.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on December 15, 2009, 02:03:49 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that they started this game the moment TP was done.
Technically Twilight Princess was finished in 2005. I highly doubt this game has been in development for 4+ years.
I wouldn't doubt it. Maybe not in the sense that programers were hard at work on stage design and such, but just like when they finish a console they go working on the next one right away I imagine the same for Zelda. Only because this is the Wii, and there hasnt been anything Zelda ground up for it yet. I have to think that concept art, and meetings about zelda's new direction have started since TP was done. Thats just me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on December 15, 2009, 02:41:49 PM
I think Aonuma has said as much, that inmediately after finishing a console Zelda game they start working on the next one.
I'm not worried and I'm hyped, but still I really, really hope they have a lefty option, I don't want to swing swords right-handed at all.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 15, 2009, 05:29:02 PM
I want Zelda 1's art style. Little King's Story used a story-book art style in its cutscenes. I want to see Zelda1 art come to life in a papery cel-shaded form.
Cuz graphics are all that people care about in Zelda. Look at what happened to the internet 7 years ago.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on December 15, 2009, 07:39:52 PM
Super Paper Zelda? Ick.
I like the Wind Waker look because I like simplicity in my characters. More simplistic characters are easier to relate to, FACT (based on psychology). I trend toward the "Meaning" side of Scott McCloud's Picture Plane and shy away from the "Reality" side. Personal preference, sure, but I think Wind Waker is more universally appealing thanks to its aesthetic.
However, the handheld Zelda games have hijaked the WW look, and that's fine. I didn't like Twilight Princess' look so much. There were times were it felt TOO detailed. I don't want Lord of the Rings, Nintendo.
Do you remember the illustrations in the Link to the Past and Link's Awakening instruction booklets? I really like THAT look. Perhaps a cell-shaded version of that. I think Hyrule looks best when it's a little bit cartoony and abstract.
As for the game's structure, I'll say again that I think it would be awesome if your character was NOT Link but a character who views Link from afar. At some point their goals become common, and you spend the majority of the game unwittingly helping Link destroy Ganondorf or something, only fully realizing your goal towards the end. Meanwhile, you come across epic battles in the background involving Link and forces of darkness...nothing you can do about them at times.
That would certainly open up the gameplay to experimentation. You could pilot an airship (flight may be in the game) and use a bow as your primary weapon (using the Sports Resort archery scheme).
Anyway, I'm excited that they want to take the series in a new direction. I think it's about time, and anything is possible!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 15, 2009, 08:27:32 PM
... i'm gonna hate the internet when videos/screens start appearing..
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 15, 2009, 09:56:16 PM
eh zelda 1 art, i prefer mature alttp art, that artist died, but that stuff was sooo awesome!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 15, 2009, 10:12:40 PM
I didn't like links hair in the alttp art, but i remember zelda looking awesome. Links uncle reminded me of Mairo...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Toruresu on December 15, 2009, 10:23:15 PM
Hrmm...not playing as Link at all would be weird, maybe having two playable characters would seem better. Some parts of the game you play as Link and some parts you play as, say a Sheikah apprentice...with online multiplayer, random dungeon generator!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 15, 2009, 10:28:20 PM
Hrmm...not playing as Link at all would be weird, maybe having two playable characters would seem better. Some parts of the game you play as Link and some parts you play as, say a Sheikah apprentice...with online multiplayer, random dungeon generator!
and it should have voice acting, and blood, and sex, and it should be an MMORPG, and should be HD
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 15, 2009, 10:32:21 PM
which alttp art are you talking about? the game had like 3 different art revisions.
there is actually more because there is a newer version of the same art for 4 swords/alttp, its essentially the same thing its just cleaner redrawn, with brighter colors
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Toruresu on December 15, 2009, 10:33:26 PM
Hrmm...not playing as Link at all would be weird, maybe having two playable characters would seem better. Some parts of the game you play as Link and some parts you play as, say a Sheikah apprentice...with online multiplayer, random dungeon generator!
and it should have voice acting, and blood, and sex, and it should be an MMORPG, and should be HD
I went too far? lol
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on December 15, 2009, 10:39:36 PM
there is actually more because there is a newer version of the same art for 4 swords/alttp, its essentially the same thing its just cleaner redrawn, with brighter colors
1. don't remember ever seeing thos first three pics...
2. never saw a single one of those! (unless the one of link touching the triforce was in the manual, it looks familiar.. It's also kinda earie that the closeup of link reminds me of his look in TP, slightly.
3. two of those are (repeated) in the manual, one i think was in the manual but i'm not sure, and the last one.. heh.. i still have that poster, its on my wall. It's so tattered though..
also, i'm really glad they gave (adult) link tights under the tunic. He looks odd without them.. Oh and theres on picture in particular I remember seeing in the manual, i believe its Link leading Zelda thru the depths of Hyrule Castle. Her wardrobe was better than what they have her in now (TP aside)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 15, 2009, 10:53:12 PM
OK, drop that whole mature bizness already. I'm trying to avoid that non-talking teen elf man everyone likes to herald as the hero of the series, cuz everyone tries to inject their ideas of story and drama and cinematics and emotion and expression into him.
I'm promoting a return to Zelda1 for the purpose of focusing on a simplistic character that still appears serious about his duty within the adventure. And in Zelda1, the adventure was in the gameplay, therefore Link was largely defined by his adventure, by the gameplay the player fused with head-on. We didn't waste our time criteeking his design. We game'd, we Zelda'd.
The art is still capable of variety of neat expressions. But the game doesn't have to look just like it; i'm asking for some of that same SPIRIT. And I'm not asking for Shitty Paper Mario sprite **** cutouts. I'm looking for a 3D celshaded action adventure that looks like ornate storybook art, not paper cutouts, come to life, with some of that paper roughness and handdrawn shading stuff applied. The Wii Bleach games simulated some manga shading, but I want to see that concept taken further for a seamless paper drawn look.
zeltards
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Toruresu on December 15, 2009, 11:03:30 PM
I found these by chance, did anyone here get to play them?
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/BS_Zelda_no_Densetsu (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/BS_Zelda_no_Densetsu) basically a "master quest" for Legend of Zelda
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/BS_Zelda_no_Densetsu_Kodai_no_Sekiban (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/BS_Zelda_no_Densetsu_Kodai_no_Sekiban) same but for ALttP
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on December 16, 2009, 01:53:00 PM
The Ocarina Master Quest is on the Wind Waker preorder bonus disk, along with Ocarina itself. I have it, but haven't gotten around to playing it yet...I keep meaning to.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Toruresu on December 16, 2009, 01:57:38 PM
Yeah, but those aren't Ocarina Master Quest, they are additional quest for the original NES game and for the SNES game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on December 16, 2009, 02:43:41 PM
It would awesome if Link would go back to be child, there's nothing interesting or compelling about any teenage character at all in any work of fiction. Too bad it isn't happening.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 16, 2009, 02:53:46 PM
It would awesome if Link would go back to be child, there's nothing interesting or compelling about any teenage character at all in any work of fiction. Too bad it isn't happening.
Tell that to all the Twilight and Harry Potter fans.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 16, 2009, 03:05:14 PM
"Twilight and Harry Potter fans, you're all terrible perverts. Don't you dare ruin Zelda more than it already was."
http://verydemotivational.com/2009/12/01/truth/
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 16, 2009, 03:10:28 PM
It would awesome if Link would go back to be child, there's nothing interesting or compelling about any teenage character at all in any work of fiction. Too bad it isn't happening.
Tell that to all the Twilight and Harry Potter fans.
Exactly my point. Potter kid was watchable, Potter now is the most boring thing ever, and we don't even need to talk about that abomination to literature and cinema that is twilight.
I should have added that only teenagers find teenagers interesting, or at least, tolerable. And even then they hate each other and themselves. Well and there's the creepy old men/women who drool over some of them but thats for another topic :P.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 17, 2009, 12:29:17 PM
Link was only made a teenager in the last console game because Zelda fans whined. If anyone noticed in the game manuals for Link to the Past (SNES) and Link's Awakening, he looks like he is in his teenage years.
Toon Link's alternate color in SSBB as the old-school Link was just amazing.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 17, 2009, 12:38:21 PM
It would awesome if Link would go back to be child, there's nothing interesting or compelling about any teenage character at all in any work of fiction. Too bad it isn't happening.
Tell that to all the Twilight and Harry Potter fans.
Exactly my point. Potter kid was watchable, Potter now is the most boring thing ever, and we don't even need to talk about that abomination to literature and cinema that is twilight.
I should have added that only teenagers find teenagers interesting, or at least, tolerable. And even then they hate each other and themselves. Well and there's the creepy old men/women who drool over some of them but thats for another topic :P.
My highschool chemistry teachers (middle-aged women) bought Ocarina of Time when it launched.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 17, 2009, 12:42:24 PM
That makes me both lol and scared at the same time.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 17, 2009, 03:13:37 PM
I don't get all the hate on harry Potter. Twilight deserves it wholeheartedly because the writing is atrocious, boring, pointless, and without anything even remotely close to being artistically relevant or significant. The same cannot be said of Harry Potter. My two favorite books in the world are Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Dune, and I love Harry Potter.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SilverGrey on December 17, 2009, 03:23:29 PM
I don't get all the hate on harry Potter. Twilight deserves it wholeheartedly because the writing is atrocious, boring, pointless, and without anything even remotely close to being artistically relevant or significant. The same cannot be said of Harry Potter. My two favorite books in the world are Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Dune, and I love Harry Potter.
I like your favorite books too! I've also read all the Twilight books (gasp!). I would argue about compelling teenage characters in literature, but I doubt that's what this thread is about. I enjoy Catcher in the Rye, Jane Eyre, and Wuthering Heights. I re-read Wuthering Heights every year actually. I also find compelling children characters in literature. I like David Copperfield and To Kill a Mockingbird and Huck Finn. As far as my thoughts on Twilight, you want good vampire novels, read The Historian or Anne Rice (or just read Dracula), but I don't think Stephanie Meyer was really trying to write a vampire novel. I think she was trying to write teenage romance. And if that's what she was after, she hit it on the head.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 17, 2009, 04:36:09 PM
I don't get all the hate on harry Potter. Twilight deserves it wholeheartedly because the writing is atrocious, boring, pointless, and without anything even remotely close to being artistically relevant or significant. The same cannot be said of Harry Potter. My two favorite books in the world are Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Dune, and I love Harry Potter.
Harry Potter is just so over-rated. It's not a bad story, just gets too much praise.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2009, 12:01:40 AM
lol derailed, harry potter is just something that has bloomed over the years, it came out the same time as lord of the rings and has been one of the better fantasy film series(i am ignoring that they are books first), and each year or two there is a nice new one. I can't think of a series of movies with so many sequels besides james bond that didn't all suck after part 3 and end up in some bargain bin.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 18, 2009, 12:09:38 AM
lol derailed, harry potter is just something that has bloomed over the years, it came out the same time as lord of the rings and has been one of the better fantasy film series(i am ignoring that they are books first), and each year or two there is a nice new one. I can't think of a series of movies with so many sequels besides james bond that didn't all suck after part 3 and end up in some bargain bin.
Notice how both of those examples were books first.
Anyway, discussing the quality of the movies is silly because the movies are only decent if you've never read the book. The amount of stuff that they have to cut as well as the lack of light-heartedness that comes from Rowling's prose means that they'll never be considered even decent literature.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2009, 12:22:51 AM
how does that make sense? The movies are decent only if you've never read the book? I haven't read the books and i think the mvoies are great. I'm pretty sure though, if i had read the books points would get taken away in my mind. However, thats really the difference in medium. Movies, are on the surface a view of a world, more limited, but in its use is how well they are rated. Books of course are deeper. I mean there is shallow media, and deep media. A harry potter miniseries could go into as much detail as the books, so could a video game, but definitely not a movie. Its the opposite of me watching Watchmen. I read the graphic novel first, and then watched the movie. The movie wasn't as good as the book, but i'll never ever enjoy a novel or film more without having done one or the other first. Then theres fight club where I watched the movie first and the book wasn't much different. I mean think of Harry Potter in the realm of fantasy movies..what is it competiog against? LOTRs, Willow, Star Wars, the Labyrynth, Never Ending Story, Princess Bride? As far as movies go in the fantasy genre it is one of the better fantasy series.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 18, 2009, 01:24:39 AM
Movies, are on the surface a view of a world, more limited, but in its use is how well they are rated. Books of course are deeper. I mean there is shallow media, and deep media.
Exactly. Movies can be just as deep as books, but when you take a book and cut it down to fit into a movie, it almost always loses most of its power. That's what I'm saying.
You're sort of proving my point with that list of movies at the end (except Princess Bride and LotR), as I would consider all of them superior to any of the Harry Potter movies.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2009, 01:52:03 AM
wait... so you exclude LOTR and Princess Bride out of a list of movies that you think are BETTER than Harry Potter? I could see LOTR, but the Princess Bride is so awesome. Or was it because they were books first? How would "where the Wild things" work out, because in that case there is much more content in the movie than in the book. Its not like the Harry Potter movies are in the same league as A Requiem for a Dream as far as quality goes, but i think it excels in its genre at least. Other than Fight club(which, isn't much longer then a movie script to begin with) I have never seen a movie with the same type of depth as a book, so its pointless to rate across mediums, or even genre in the same medium for that matter. Maybe its because I have seen so many terrible terrible movies, whcih were not listed.
also, i have to ask about this, because it is vague
The amount of stuff that they have to cut as well as the lack of light-heartedness that comes from Rowling's prose means that they'll never be considered even decent literature.
do you mean Rowling's work in the books generally lacks light heartedness and therfore are not decent literature, or that the movies lack the light heartedness that are in the books and because of this aren't good movies?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 18, 2009, 06:00:59 AM
do you mean Rowling's work in the books generally lacks light heartedness and therfore are not decent literature, or that the movies lack the light heartedness that are in the books and because of this aren't good movies?
I think what he meant was that Rowling's books, though they're hardly great literature (or even good literature), have a pleasant light humor, which the movies really don't manage to reproduce. I don't think they'd be great movies even if they did reproduce the tone, but still, because they don't, they're "less" than they might have been otherwise.
I think the movies' main achievements are very high production values, and the fact that they manage to more or less capture the appealing world-building of the books (this is obviously helped by having good production values!). I think it's the latter which are a large part of the reason for the books' appeal as well -- people simply like the characters and locations, and the general concepts of rowling's world (and I agree with this -- she does have a lot of fun ideas, and it's fun to imagine living in her world). Her plots are generally a bit lame (always the same -- interesting start, writes herself into a corner, deus ex machina, finis!), so it's maybe a shame the movies didn't try to take more liberties with them...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on December 18, 2009, 05:03:04 PM
Yeah, I've only seen the Harry Potter movies (my wife drags me along) and I really can't stand the massive influx of deus ex machina in every goddamn movie. Most egregious example:
Oh noes! The giant basilisk can turn things to stone just by looking at them! Aha! That bird, which is immune to the stone gaze, has pecked out its eyes! Awesome! But oh, noes! Harry got bitten anyway! Oh, thank the lo'd! The bird's tears cure poison! But Harry can't get out of the dungeon. OH WAIT! THE BIRD CAN LEFT LIKE A MILLION TIMES ITS OWN WEIGHT.
This is the part where my head was hurting from all the facepalms.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 18, 2009, 05:09:32 PM
I personally can't follow the Harry Potter Movies. I've seen them all and not followed the story from one movie to the next. I'm really not into that series and I keep watching it because everyone around me is excited when a new one comes out. I think I'll have to watch them all in a marathon once the last one hits DVD.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on December 18, 2009, 07:03:00 PM
oh god it's all my fault.
Let's talk how teenager Link sucks and child Link is awesome please, thanks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on December 18, 2009, 07:55:41 PM
I tend to regard teenage Link more as "adult Link". Link is barely a character anyway. He's really fully-grown Link. Any of the annoying personality quirks teenagers have aren't shared by Link. It isn't like some RPG where the main character is some melodramatic 17 year old who in real life I couldn't stand to be around.
So on that note I'm a fully grown adult. If I'm supposed to suplant myself into the role of the hero an adult avatar will work better for me than a child one will. Of course then perhaps children can't relate. It's not as important because for kids the idea of pretending to be an adult is cool. Adults don't have to do their homework or clean their room. They can do whatever they want. Kids think adults have it made. The opposite isn't true for adults typically find kids' stuff to be immature and stupid.
Looking at it from that perspective the teenage Link is the ideal middle ground that adults and kids can relate to. Kids get that "when I'm grown up" fantasy while adults get that nostalgic "I wish I was young again" fantasy. Even if you don't have fond memories of your teenage years, this is Zelda. You're not going back to high school and having acne. It's about having an adventure in a fantasy world. Well while I'm at it being young and full of energy would make that fantasy all the better.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 19, 2009, 12:18:15 AM
Oh noes! The giant basilisk can turn things to stone just by looking at them! Aha! That bird, which is immune to the stone gaze, has pecked out its eyes! Awesome! But oh, noes! Harry got bitten anyway! Oh, thank the lo'd! The bird's tears cure poison! But Harry can't get out of the dungeon. OH WAIT! THE BIRD CAN LEFT LIKE A MILLION TIMES ITS OWN WEIGHT.
All of these things are true of the phoenix in mythology.
And you're really complaining about deus ex machina? There's a reason there's a proper latin term for it. It's because it's a completely legitimate literary device, and to act like using it automatically degrades quality is ignorant.
Anyway, young link is better because it more effectively captures the whole childhood exploration aspect of Zelda, which is pretty much THE aspect of Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 19, 2009, 12:23:17 AM
And you're really complaining about deus ex machina? There's a reason there's a proper latin term for it. It's because it's a completely legitimate literary device, and to act like using it automatically degrades quality is ignorant.
The point is, though, that as rowling uses it, it's just a cheap-ass way to tie up a plot she has no idea how to finish. Her endings are downright awful.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 19, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I think Mac<censored> pretty much summed my take on it, i like the movies, but there have been time when they just...ended. Its not like i put them in the 9.9-10 range, they pretty much could be a 6 to an 8, but I have seen some terrible movies...like the type that the scifi channel produces, the Harry Potter movies aren't that bad. None of them are Transformers 2 bad.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on December 19, 2009, 01:45:20 AM
I think Mac<censored> pretty much summed my take on it, i like the movies, but there have been time when they just...ended. Its not like i put them in the 9.9-10 range, they pretty much could be a 6 to an 8, but I have seen some terrible movies...like the type that the scifi channel produces, the Harry Potter movies aren't that bad. None of them are Transformers 2 bad.
I wanted to like Transformers 2, I really did, because I loved the over the top humor/action in the first one but it was like Michael Bay went over the top and fell down the other side with 2. Too bad...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 19, 2009, 01:50:23 AM
Transformers was pretty decent, but yeah they screwed up with 2 entirely...like on every level.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on December 21, 2009, 02:45:36 PM
I tend to regard teenage Link more as "adult Link". Link is barely a character anyway. He's really fully-grown Link. Any of the annoying personality quirks teenagers have aren't shared by Link. It isn't like some RPG where the main character is some melodramatic 17 year old who in real life I couldn't stand to be around.
So on that note I'm a fully grown adult. If I'm supposed to suplant myself into the role of the hero an adult avatar will work better for me than a child one will. Of course then perhaps children can't relate. It's not as important because for kids the idea of pretending to be an adult is cool. Adults don't have to do their homework or clean their room. They can do whatever they want. Kids think adults have it made. The opposite isn't true for adults typically find kids' stuff to be immature and stupid.
Looking at it from that perspective the teenage Link is the ideal middle ground that adults and kids can relate to. Kids get that "when I'm grown up" fantasy while adults get that nostalgic "I wish I was young again" fantasy. Even if you don't have fond memories of your teenage years, this is Zelda. You're not going back to high school and having acne. It's about having an adventure in a fantasy world. Well while I'm at it being young and full of energy would make that fantasy all the better.
The great thing about child Link is that any accomplishment feels bigger and more epic than with adult link, but I agree, Link is whatever age you want. The problem I see is the little romantic undertones they have tried, they were subtle and almost non existant in TP but still I felt it was too much, too corny and out of place, Nintendo has never been good with this.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 21, 2009, 03:23:03 PM
Transformers was pretty decent, but yeah they screwed up with 2 entirely...like on every level.
I haven't seen the second, but from everything I've seen/heard of it, it was pretty much exactly like the first one. Which is to say, giant robots beating the crap out of each other.
Honestly I don't know what anybody else was looking for.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 21, 2009, 08:48:53 PM
There was a little plotline in the first one, like it wasn't an incredable movie, but it was likable. Part 2 was nothing but action, but like stupid action...and transformers go to heaven when they die? It was totally made of WTF sauce. It was about as fucking stupid as you get. Like with every scene it got stupider,and stupider, and stupider. I got fed up. It was bad in the worst B movie sort of way, but because it had an enormous budget it wasn't funny in a B movie sort of way. If Batman and Robin was a 10/10 movie on a passable crappy movie scale, Transformers 2 would be a 0.2/10
but totaly back to Zelda. One of the best games i played in the last couple of years was Portal. It makes me wonder what new types of puzzles Nintendo could be kicking up with a new Zelda game. I'm going to go out on a limb, but im thinking the development of links magnetic boots might have played a role in the development of the gravity system in Mario Galaxy. i'm wondering what innovations could be brought to Zelda in a Mario Galaxy sort of way? Whats outside the Zelda box?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 21, 2009, 08:56:54 PM
It'll be top-down 2D, cuz 2D sells more.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on December 21, 2009, 09:09:35 PM
So...PH/ST in th style of Link to the Past?
I'd actually buy that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on December 21, 2009, 10:21:19 PM
PH/ST are 2d Zeldas just like NSMB is a 2d Mario. They both use 3d characters and you play on a 2d plane. The ds zelda games have the same top down look as the first.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on December 22, 2009, 04:24:53 PM
PH/ST 3-D engine is fake 2-D, thanks to stylus controls. Almost like 3-D, but...isn't. The only spots that felt 2-D (in PH) were a couple of boss battles, but that's it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on December 22, 2009, 08:35:34 PM
I dunno, the 3d engine seems real enough, but the level design and controls are 2d...
[This split very common on the DS, e.g. basically all recent AA JRPGS do the same thing -- DQ IX, 光の４戦士, Zelda, etc -- which suggests the DS hardware must make it pretty easy...]
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 22, 2009, 09:05:40 PM
EDGE Online Interview with Eiji Aonuma: Regrets for Twilight Princess (http://www.edge-online.com/news/aonumas-regrets-for-twilight-princess)
Quote
Series director Eiji Aonuma says “sheer grand scale" is the starting point for developing the next Zelda.
Edge 211 features Links To The Past, an in-depth interview with series director Eiji Aonuma about his memories of working on gaming’s greatest franchise. But there are a few nods to the future, as well. We asked Aonuma about the ‘epic’ feel of Twilight Princess and its subsequent reception, to which he said:
“For Twilight Princess we used the adult Link and one of the interesting things about that was how we considered the precise proportions of Link and the world. The scale is because we aimed for a more realistic quality in the size of the environments of Hyrule and what that Link faced.
"But the question is whether or not we were able to incorporate any and all of the interesting game ideas that were able to take advantage of that kind of sheer grand scale within the Zelda universe. I am afraid that definitely no, we were not able to do all the things that perhaps with hindsight we had the capabilities to do. With that as the starting point, we are now developing the Wii version of Legend Of Zelda.”
Aonuma went on to admit that the discrepancy between imagination and representation was his greatest regret about the previous Wii game:
“In the case of Spirit Tracks it was relatively easier, because regardless of the actual proportions between the player character and the other objects, we can simply concentrate upon the many game ideas we want to realise. But in the case of trying to depict a relatively photorealistic three-dimensional world, we have to be very careful to adapt the ideas so that they seem to perfectly fit with that world. I must admit that's actually one of my very greatest regrets as regards the Twilight Princess.”
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on December 22, 2009, 09:52:34 PM
I regret Twilight Princess, too.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on December 22, 2009, 11:03:26 PM
I do understand, but can someone dumb that down for me just a bit?
So sheer grand scale but with lots of happenings within that grand scale I assume? Also they are not going to worry how everything is super realistic scale wise and how it fits into the Zelda world? Is he saying they are just doing any zany thing they want?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 22, 2009, 11:24:07 PM
They were so focused on making everything in the game fit the realistic scale that there were many idea that didn't get incorporated. I assume some things weren't included because they were too cartoony or unrealistic, or they just spent so much time tweaking the realism scale that they ran out of time to include alot of the ideas that they just never got around to realizing.
that's my translation of it.
In hindsight, I think they realized that they were producing the game for GameCube and that the Wii was capable of producing more than what they delivered. So much time was spent re-tooling the game for the Wii version that the game overall suffered and was not everything that it should have been. Zelda Wii will be everything that they wanted in the last game with the incorporation of Motion Plus.
^my reinterpretation of what was said.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on December 23, 2009, 02:15:39 AM
How on earth did the death spinner pass their realism test?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on December 23, 2009, 05:00:38 AM
i'm all for any zany thing they want, why can't wind waker style and realistic style just co-exist :P Tingle Cell Shaded, while link is realisitc :P
oh and screw IGN and all their Tingle hate
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ymeegod on December 23, 2009, 08:04:41 PM
You should read the Harry Potter Books because alot is lost in the movie--namely they compressed an 800 page novel into a 2 hour movie.
As for transformer 2 what killed it is the ending? WTF did they do with the little robot (humpy--) or what happen to the twins (fighting one giant robot then nothing?). Nothing kills a movie than gaps in the plot--especially a poor one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on December 24, 2009, 01:46:54 AM
You should read the Harry Potter Books because alot is lost in the movie--namely they compressed an 800 page novel into a 2 hour movie.
As for transformer 2 what killed it is the ending? WTF did they do with the little robot (humpy--) or what happen to the twins (fighting one giant robot then nothing?). Nothing kills a movie than gaps in the plot--especially a poor one.
What you talkin about Willis?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on January 03, 2010, 02:58:34 AM
so after playing through ocarina and mm, i was in the mood to build a mod. I looked up half-life 2, and this character model is awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCvpM6e9XIQ&feature=player_embedded
i wonder..did they just remodel the thing from scratch or rip it?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 03, 2010, 06:25:49 PM
UNCANNY VALERIE
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 06, 2010, 06:16:15 AM
According to sources that could read this interview: http://www.asahi.com/digital/pc/OSK201001050110.html (In Japanese) Iwata says Zelda Wii is set for 2010
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on January 06, 2010, 10:50:15 AM
With them coming out in the same year, I wonder if they might slip some compatibility of the Vitality sensor into Zelda. Nothing major, but maybe a hidden mode or something.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 06, 2010, 10:51:58 AM
What kind of idea do you have for that Stratos?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on January 06, 2010, 11:32:13 AM
I could see Zelda hitting the end of the year only because we havn't seen squat. Lately I feel like Nintendo has been hiding more more of their games and then revealing them only when the release date is about half a year away. Except the e3 stuff. But I feel we have been getting less behind the scenes stuff aside from constant little tid bits in interviews.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 06, 2010, 11:56:35 AM
Why would Nintendo want to give out behind-the-scenes info when you have to deal with the gaming press?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 06, 2010, 12:01:24 PM
Quote
Lately I feel like Nintendo has been hiding more more of their gamesand then revealing them only when the release date is about half a yearaway.
I never had a problem with this. It's how Nintendo has always been, sans the GCN days when they had to wait hand and foot to the 'core' crowd. It didn't work out that well for them.
And a 2010 release date for the new Wii Zelda is not that surprising. A November/December release date window will coincide with the same release window of Twilight Princess back in 2006.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 06, 2010, 12:23:48 PM
Lately I feel like Nintendo has been hiding more more of their games and then revealing them only when the release date is about half a year away. Except the e3 stuff. But I feel we have been getting less behind the scenes stuff aside from constant little tid bits in interviews.
Maybe that's because Nintendo themselves said that is what they are gonna do. Iwata said last year that Nintendo is was gonna stop even talking about a game until it was about to release. Nintendo has always been more closed than other publishers, but they are becoming more secretive now.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 06, 2010, 01:42:44 PM
Where as other developers have been shoving hype into their respective audiences faces, Nintendo has been careful on what they show and what they release.
I really want to play Disaster so badly though. =(
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 06, 2010, 07:43:06 PM
"Zelda Wii isn’t being released in 2010. It is being dumped."
Sean's thinking is in-line with mine once again. People want Zelda to be an incredible Motion Plus Zelda game.
But Wii is a platform for MULTIPLE games. Where are the incredible Motion Plus GAMES?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on January 06, 2010, 07:46:54 PM
The way Zelda games get delayed, I'm extremely pessimistic that this new one will actually release in North America in 2010. It may hit Japan in 2010, but considering we've seen absolutely nothing on the game except that concept art, I highly doubt the game will go through the entire localization process and hit North America before the end of the year. I hope I'm wrong, though, because outside of Metroid Other M (which I'm also skeptical it'll release this year) and Fragile, there's nothing else being released on Wii this year that interests me so far.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 06, 2010, 07:54:34 PM
Don't keep your hopes up, AUSTRALIA might get Zelda first.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThomasO on January 06, 2010, 08:00:34 PM
I believe the quote was 95% new content. I imagine it will expand upon the existing game engine and have some recycled graphics, music, and sound effects, but it goes without saying that the levels will all be new.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 07, 2010, 12:04:49 AM
I believe the quote was 95% new content. I imagine it will expand upon the existing game engine and have some recycled graphics, music, and sound effects, but it goes without saying that the levels will all be new.
You mean it's not a lock on disc?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 07, 2010, 01:09:39 AM
I hurd they'll bring back Stop-n-Swap. How Galaxy 2 will read a cartridge, I don't know, must be new blue tooth trickery.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on January 07, 2010, 01:19:55 AM
"Zelda Wii isn’t being released in 2010. It is being dumped."
Sean's thinking is in-line with mine once again. People want Zelda to be an incredible Motion Plus Zelda game.
But Wii is a platform for MULTIPLE games. Where are the incredible Motion Plus GAMES?
Stop whining. There's Zelda, Resort, Tiger Woods, Grand Slam Tennis, erm...some hockey game...that other tennis game...the cowboy-samurai thing...and HeyLookOverThere *jumps out window*.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 07, 2010, 01:22:28 AM
you forgot the Reggie game
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on January 07, 2010, 03:47:50 AM
galaxy 2 is a mod
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 07, 2010, 03:58:35 AM
DLC on a disc
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on January 07, 2010, 04:15:35 AM
The first thing I thought of was the one challenge in Star Fox Adventures where you're bravery is tested by raptors charging at you and you having to keep the view centered on an object and not looking away. It happened only once in the game and I recall it being really cool. I could see something like that playing out with the vitality sensor. Or maybe you need to register on the sensor at a certain level before an NPC will tell you a secret or give you an item. Maybe you could get ranked in a dungeon by how high or low your vitality rate is. There are lots of things you could do to enhance the experience.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 07, 2010, 04:41:11 AM
"It happened only once in the game and I recall it being really cool."
I only paid attention to a stupid sliding bar. I was hardly aware of anything cool happening around that. I completed the task on my first try, then shouted "WHERE THE **** IS THE BOSS BATTLE??"
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Urkel on January 07, 2010, 05:11:43 PM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm certainly looking forward to The Legend of Zelda: Something of Something. "Something" will benefit greatly from the MotionPlus controls.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on January 07, 2010, 08:40:28 PM
As much as I love the series, I have no reason to be excited about this game. We have Miyamoto's flip-flopping comments and one piece of art with an older looking Link and some stupid looking character that may or may not be the Master Sword. At this point, who cares? That's like being excited about Metroid Prime 4. What Metroid Prime 4? Exactly.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on January 08, 2010, 04:12:58 AM
we all know Miyamoto has very little influence on Zelda nowadays, i think since Majora's Mask its been Aonuma's bitch.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Urkel on January 08, 2010, 04:39:47 AM
All I want out of the next Zelda is MotionPlus swordfighting. That's it. As long as they don't screw that up I'll be happy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 08, 2010, 09:47:24 AM
we all know Miyamoto has very little influence on Zelda nowadays, i think since Majora's Mask its been Aonuma's bitch.
With Yoshiaki Koizumi storytelling on the side. Both of them were what made Majora's Mask amazing.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: decoyman on January 08, 2010, 09:57:54 AM
For all you guys poo-pooing (lol "poo-pooing") story, I guess I should clarify what I mean.
NPC-rambling and scrolling text cutscenes aren't the parts of "story" that I'm talking about... Rather, I mean the addition of cinematic/interactive/scripted events, too – Link's sister getting kidnapped in Windwaker, the boar-rider/bridge/duel scene in Twilight Princess, the Kafei/Anju saga in Majora's Mask... you guys would really be happier without those sorts of things in Zelda, and with "pure adventuring" instead?? Those were such memorable, exciting, epic parts of the game for me, and I'd go further and say that they're vital to modern Zelda. Good story-telling means I want to save Hyrule because of the emotional investment I develop with its inhabitants, and that emotional investment is one crucial element to creating a memorable gaming experience (or memorable book/movie/etc. for that matter). This is what made Majora's Mask feel so believable, so "human" to me, and is a big part of what makes me look back on it with such fondness – not the tight and engaging gameplay or puzzle-solving.
My issue with TP is that they do hardly any character development after a certain point in the game. IMO, it's at this point that the game loses its momentum, and—whether they realize it or not—is where I think many people began to find fault.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 08, 2010, 12:33:18 PM
Twilight Princess's story fell apart after the first three dungeons. Midna was awesome, but then she became lame.
Heard it had alot to do with the fact that they switched writers midway through development.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 08, 2010, 07:45:08 PM
Twilight Princess's story fell apart after the first three dungeons. Midna was awesome, but then she became lame.
Heard it had alot to do with the fact that they switched writers midway through development.
Yeah, Miyamoto shook up the staff in 2005 when he didn't like the direction the game was going. From what it sounded like was the team was spending too much time focusing on the storyline and not enough on the gamplay which pissed off Miyamoto who then flipped the tea table.
Since Miyamoto has said gameplay comes first, storyline comes last, it's no surprise the writers would be the first to go if he was angry with a game. This would explain why the storyline and character development just stops about halfway through the game. Since they started development in 2004 and Miyamoto changed things up in 2005, that would be around the halfway point of development.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on January 08, 2010, 07:50:08 PM
So in other words, we have Miyamoto to thank for the one interesting aspect of Twilight Princess falling apart. I'm increasingly glad that he's no longer steward of the Zelda series.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 08, 2010, 08:09:20 PM
"One" interesting aspect? The story was one of the interesting parts, most of the game was great.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 08, 2010, 08:14:26 PM
So in other words, we have Miyamoto to thank for the one interesting aspect of Twilight Princess falling apart. I'm increasingly glad that he's no longer steward of the Zelda series.
Well if they had focused on the gameplay first, they could have finished their story all the way till the end of development. He has no one to blame but himself, and that's who we should blame too. If we didn't have Miyamoto to upend the tea table, we might have had our first The Legend of Final Fantasy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on January 08, 2010, 08:29:40 PM
"One" interesting aspect? The story was one of the interesting parts, most of the game was great.
I used to think so as well, but I recently tried to replay it and just was bored out of my mind for most of the game. Maybe it was the Zelda gameplay formula that has a stranglehold on the game, but I just could not get through the game. It doesn't hold up, especially compared to something like Majora's Mask (which is what I played immediately after).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 08, 2010, 08:47:58 PM
I couldn't finish it either as it just became unfun to play after a while. That's why I think we should thank Miyamoto for geting them back to work on the gameplay, but too many aspects seem sort of like they knew where they were going at one point then got distracted with something else before coming back to finish it. So many parts just seemed uninspired to me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 08, 2010, 08:58:06 PM
Quote
So in other words, we have Miyamoto to thank for the one interestingaspect of Twilight Princess falling apart. I'm increasingly glad thathe's no longer steward of the Zelda series.
Well if Aonuma had been more involved early on and not let the game get behind schedule, Miyamoto might not have stepped in to take over the project.
For the first half of Twilight Princess development, Aonuma was originally the producer of the game and there was a different director. Well early on, Aonuma as a producer took a more hands off approach and let the new director try and do his own thing. The problem is, the director he choose was not ready for a game of this size and so things didn't go to well. Yeah the storyline of the game was coming alone nicely but the rest of the game was all over the place. When Aonuma saw that everything was a mess he finally jumped in and tried to save the game before Miyamoto noticed.
Sadly for him it was too late, Miyamoto found out and was not pleased. He got rid of the current director and demoted Aonuma from a producer back to a director and made him the new director of the game. He then told Aonuma what he needed to focus on and forced him to get rid of things Miyamoto didn't like. Not to mention from then on, anything Aonuma wanted to do with the game he had to get permission from Miyamoto first.
I'd imagine after what happened with Twilight Princess, for Zelda Wii Aonuma has been working his team like a slave driver from the beginning, trying to make sure he doesn't face Miyamoto's wrath again.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 08, 2010, 09:20:30 PM
Luigi Dude, if you don't mind me asking, how do you learn these things?
And on the whole turmoils of Zelda TP, it's not surprising. You can see it in the game design, and the story and characters. It fell apart, but is Shiggy real to blame for being a slave driver?
At least, from the sound of it, Aonuma learned his lesson.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on January 08, 2010, 09:53:09 PM
It's very interesting... now I'm very curious what a pure-Aonuma Zelda will be like...
Not that I dislike the Miyamoto Zeldas but probably a game is better with one consistent direction. TP in particular, is much more interesting in the early stages (first half?) with its much stronger narrative drive and characterization (compared to the latter part of the game, and indeed, compared to previous Zelda games). What would it be like if he could finish the job...?
[I don't blame Miyamoto, btw -- he did what he had to do to get the game finished, and it's not like the result was bad, simply not what it might have been...]
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 09, 2010, 06:45:06 AM
Luigi Dude, if you don't mind me asking, how do you learn these things?
I just read a lot of the interviews with the people behind the games. In the case of Twilight Princess, this section of the Ask Iwata interview really helped.
This part in participle sums up what happened in 2005.
Quote
Iwata: Miyamoto-san, when the decision to postpone the game's release was made, how did you feel about the Zelda game as it was at that point?
Miyamoto: I thought it was enjoyable, but that it was really a long way from being ready! (laughs) When I thought about where we needed to focus our attention in the time we had left, my head started spinning.
Aonuma: (Embarrassed laugh) But that was exactly the state things were in.
So yeah, it's pretty obvious what Miyamoto made everyone focus their attention on and what he got rid of.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 09, 2010, 02:53:54 PM
It had to launch when it had to launch, right?
So we can gather it takes 5 years to make a robust, "next-generation" Zelda game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on January 09, 2010, 06:06:33 PM
So we can gather it takes 5 years to make a robust, "next-generation" Zelda game.
Hey.. goat pens aren't going to make themselves:
Quote
Miyamoto:
What else was there… Ah yes, we already talked a little about the goat-throwing section, but to continue from that, there are a pre-determined number of goats that appear in the game. When I found out the reason for this, I was quite speechless! (laughs) The way it works is, there's an event where Link has to round up a certain number of goats. The number of goats isn't determined by the event's difficulty, but instead by the number that can fit into the pens in the barn!
All: (laughter)
Aonuma: The number of places in the barn was set and that dictated the total number of goats we could have…
Miyamoto: I spoke to the director about why we couldn't have a larger number, but he told me that it wouldn't be possible because there were only twenty-four spaces in the barn! (laughs) Also, in early versions of the game, Link couldn't even enter the barn.
Iwata: So, you couldn't even see the number of pens?
Miyamoto: Precisely! (laughs) What were you thinking, limiting the number of pens! But in the end, Link became able to enter the barn.
Aonuma: And from time to time when the goats escape, you can now go into the barn and check to see how many of the pens are empty. That's the kind of detail the team spent their time implementing! (laughs)
Miyamoto: Nobody's going to check anyway! (laughs) There were many points like this throughout the game.
Aonuma: That's true. Before we knew it, all these details were already in the game!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on January 10, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
My 2 main problems with storytelling in modern videogames:
1. Long unskippable cutscenes
2. Infodumping
Think about cutscene/dialog heavy games. How much of that information do you really need? Alternatively, a game like Metroid Prime did a pretty good job of offering a deeper storyline without forcing the backstory on players. Much of the story was optional and sometimes you had to go a little out of your way to find the Lore. I think that approach could work in Zelda. Many of the optional sidequests are unimportant to the plot. I collected all those f-ing bugs in Twilight Princess for a character who had no bearing on the story whatsoever. Let me go on a sidequest that tells me something about Hyrule's past, something that doesn't necessarily move the story forward, but fleshes out the world.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on January 10, 2010, 12:50:49 PM
Let me go on a sidequest that tells me something about Hyrule's past, something that doesn't necessarily move the story forward, but fleshes out the world.
In other words, what they did in Majora's Mask. Well, as that game is my favorite Zelda I wouldn't have a problem with that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on January 10, 2010, 04:08:03 PM
No. Majora's Mask didn't take place in Hyrule.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on January 10, 2010, 05:26:50 PM
yeah, but MAjora's Mask is made of WIN
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: decoyman on January 11, 2010, 10:53:09 AM
You know, Zelda has been around for so long that really interesting/compelling story additions could be enough of a reward in itself to complete a sidequest. It'd sure as heck be better than just a pile of rupees at least.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 11, 2010, 02:08:44 PM
People would complain if it was just story elements. Maybe if there was an item that wasn't mentioned until you found it. Something you don't really need, but is really cool to have if you take the time to actually go get it.
Like you go off on some random quest to fetch someone's dog that ran down some cave that everyone was too afraid to ever go down, and in the process of looking for the dog you find something that leads to a small dungeon hidden in the cave that leads to a treasure chest with a map written in some ancient forgotten language.
You have to take this map to some historian somewhere in Hyrule who would translate the map and give you the story of some ancient mythical sword/shield/armor that had magical powers that activated when it was combined with the Hyrulian Diamond (a stone hidden in a castle somewhere in the last 1/4 of the game). The sword/shield/armor was dismantled/broken and hidden across the lands but the exact locations were a secret. A secret held by the Hyrulian Historian Society, a secret society so secret, everyone assumes it's just an urban legend that has been passed down from generation to generation. Now you have to track down these HHS members, who are scattered all over the world and only meet in the Hyrule castle towns hidden underground temple on nights of the Full moon. You might see these members scurrying around town late at night(in dark robes) only to disappear down some dark dead-end alley, and you might even catch up to them and try to talk to them, but they will say nothing in return if you don't know the secret HHS phrase.
But of course you would never even hear about this side quest if you didn't wander further than necessary into a cave to rescue some dog for a little girl, and the side quest takes you away from the main course of the game and extends the length of the game by several hours by opening up hidden dungeons that you wouldn't have access to. Now instead of all those useless rupees in the random treasure chest, occasionally you would find a weird metal fragment with no real description. If you didn't know of the quest, you wouldn't know what these random fragments were or what potential they might have if you collected them all.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 11, 2010, 04:01:09 PM
Since the game is practically done, that leaves plenty of time to work on voice acting this year.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on January 11, 2010, 04:37:38 PM
Since the game is practically done, that leaves plenty of time to work on voice acting this year.
You may be joking but I totaly believe there will be voice acting. Charles Martinet has been on Nintendo's team for years. He must know the Zelda games have been basicly mute since day one. So why would he ever approach Miyamoto saying that he wants to voice Link? Because a casting call was probably put out for this Zelda game and he wondered why Link was not on the casting list.
I honestly would prefer a game with some actual spoken dialogue, I thought Star Fox 64 and Mario Sunshine was done very well. I wish Nintendo would do more of that. Though it doesn't make or break an deals for me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on January 11, 2010, 04:43:21 PM
Quote
I honestly would prefer a game with some actual spoken dialogue, I thought Star Fox 64 and Mario Sunshine was done very well.
Shirley you must be joking
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on January 11, 2010, 05:12:39 PM
Well at the time I thought it was great! Even when I play it today, I think it is very tolerable. Sounds like i'm watching a cartoon!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on January 11, 2010, 05:34:37 PM
Since the game is practically done, that leaves plenty of time to work on voice acting this year.
You may be joking but I totaly believe there will be voice acting. Charles Martinet has been on Nintendo's team for years. He must know the Zelda games have been basicly mute since day one. So why would he ever approach Miyamoto saying that he wants to voice Link? Because a casting call was probably put out for this Zelda game and he wondered why Link was not on the casting list.
I think you're overanalyzing.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 11, 2010, 05:43:34 PM
The series is probably garbage (http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=110475).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on January 11, 2010, 05:44:25 PM
"Use the boost to get through!" = best voice acting ever
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on January 12, 2010, 06:14:02 PM
From www.ignwii.com (http://www.ignwii.com) January 12, 2010 - Speaking on the Nintendo Weekly show (via Youtube), President and COO Reggie Fils-Aime stated the company will be taking its time with the upcoming Zelda title for Wii, and that it won't see a release until its perfect."Right now, it's still in development. But the key message that Mr. Miyamoto and Mr. Aonuma is telling us is that it really has to be perfect when it launches," he said. "That really is what the Zelda fan is expecting.""So for all of those Zelda fans out there right now, I would say enjoy The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks, and know that the Zelda title for Wii is going to come out when it's perfect," he said.Fils-Aime's comment doesn't exactly mesh with an earlier report saying the new title would ship in 2010.Last week, Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata was quoted by Asahi Shimbun Daily in Japan as saying the next Zelda for Wii will ship before the end of this year. Nintendo Japan has yet to officially make an announcement on its release date, however.
I Caterkiller, still think it will be out in 2010 despite all logic and history betting against it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 12, 2010, 06:16:40 PM
The game has been in development since 2006, supposedly. Development for OoT started around 1995, and was released in 1998. If this game IS released this year, it will have been four years since Twilight Princess.
All that effort had to go somewhere, hopefully.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on January 12, 2010, 06:23:44 PM
They don't care about logic, they care about internet hits and destroying game sales for games that should sell well.
Oh, is that why they made a big deal out of their "Buy Zack & Wiki Campaign"? ::)
Personally, I find it kind of funny that it only took around a week before Nintendo started backpeddling on the idea of Zelda coming out in North America this year. I never expected it to, so I'm not terribly surprised.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 12, 2010, 10:59:43 PM
Wii Music says hi, hello and good morning to you.
Zack and Wiki having a sale campaign is commendable, but that is only one thing. The rest of the bad things speak for itself.
IGNorance is bliss.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 13, 2010, 05:13:13 AM
Twilight Princess's story fell apart after the first three dungeons. Midna was awesome, but then she became lame.
Heard it had alot to do with the fact that they switched writers midway through development.
Yeah, Miyamoto shook up the staff in 2005 when he didn't like the direction the game was going. From what it sounded like was the team was spending too much time focusing on the storyline and not enough on the gamplay which pissed off Miyamoto who then flipped the tea table.
Since Miyamoto has said gameplay comes first, storyline comes last, it's no surprise the writers would be the first to go if he was angry with a game. This would explain why the storyline and character development just stops about halfway through the game. Since they started development in 2004 and Miyamoto changed things up in 2005, that would be around the halfway point of development.
If I'm not mistaken, the Zelda franchise was created by Miyamoto originally, so it is kinda his to do with as he sees fit.
I also want to say that picturing him overturning a tea table in anger is kinda funny. Its too bad there isn't a youtube video of that (or is there?). It sorta reminds one of when Jesus overturned the money-lending table.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 13, 2010, 05:18:50 AM
The game has been in development since 2006, supposedly.
That makes perfect sense because 2006 was when TP came out, and I remember reading that as soon as a Nintendo team finishes a game they immediately begin work on the next. You can bet that the teams behind core franchises like Mario and Zelda never get a break, so they are constantly working on their respective IPs around the clock. They probably started this new Zelda around the same time TP went gold.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2010, 12:15:35 PM
Twilight Princess's story fell apart after the first three dungeons. Midna was awesome, but then she became lame.
Heard it had alot to do with the fact that they switched writers midway through development.
Yeah, Miyamoto shook up the staff in 2005 when he didn't like the direction the game was going. From what it sounded like was the team was spending too much time focusing on the storyline and not enough on the gamplay which pissed off Miyamoto who then flipped the tea table.
Since Miyamoto has said gameplay comes first, storyline comes last, it's no surprise the writers would be the first to go if he was angry with a game. This would explain why the storyline and character development just stops about halfway through the game. Since they started development in 2004 and Miyamoto changed things up in 2005, that would be around the halfway point of development.
If I'm not mistaken, the Zelda franchise was created by Miyamoto originally, so it is kinda his to do with as he sees fit.
I also want to say that picturing him overturning a tea table in anger is kinda funny. Its too bad there isn't a youtube video of that (or is there?). It sorta reminds one of when Jesus overturned the money-lending table.
It's basically the equivalent of him sitting down with you in a meeting, he tells you you're doing things wrong, and you're afraid you might get fired. There are no real tea tables.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on January 13, 2010, 03:22:56 PM
they should bring some shenmue elements into the zelda series..i mean as far as character interaction, in Shenmue instead of talking to people and only getting one reaction out of them you got to make choices on questions, and these questions would be related to what your doing at the time. Say you need to find a guy named charlie, but your also looking for a sword, well you get the choice "ask about charlie, as about a sword". Not only this like Majora's mask everyone would have their own schedule, and you'd have to get the hang of what people do during their schedule.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2010, 04:39:08 PM
To do that, Nintendo would have to make an Expansion Pak for Wii. We all know they've been incapable of doing "more complex" character interactions the past two generations.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on January 14, 2010, 12:18:38 AM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 14, 2010, 02:32:00 AM
Perhaps this incident should coin a new phrase. We are all familiar with "being teabagged", but now Miyamoto has given us "Tea-tabled" which is an even worse thing to have happen to you.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on January 14, 2010, 07:21:45 PM
What he means to say is, there are no more real tea tables at Nintendo because everyones afraid of what Miyamoto will do to them (and the cost it will incur to the company replacing so many).
Better?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 14, 2010, 08:42:42 PM
Cheap IKEA tea tables should be easily replaceable.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 14, 2010, 09:39:58 PM
Nintendo's tea tables are made out of Gold & Platinum with Diamond and Pearl gem stones all over. It gets real expensive getting those repaired and polished everytime Miyamoto feels the need to upend a table on someone.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on January 14, 2010, 10:02:32 PM
On top of that, you gotta imagine how many poor souls have been punted by Reggie on business trips to Nintey HQs thru those very tea tables.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on January 14, 2010, 10:12:44 PM
That should be the warp feature in the next Zelda
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on January 14, 2010, 10:18:45 PM
tea tables or punting?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Invincible Donkey Kong on January 14, 2010, 10:47:22 PM
On top of that, you gotta imagine how many poor souls have been punted by Reggie on business trips to Nintey HQs thru those very tea tables.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ckclose09 on January 15, 2010, 10:21:05 PM
I haven't read all the posts so I don't know if someone has already noticed this or not, but the silver figure next to Link kinda looks like the master sword. It sounds stupid, but try to envision it. The master sword has a gold diamond on it's hilt and the figure has one on it's chest. The over coat that the figure is wearing looks like the cross guard of the master sword. And finally the head of the figure looks like the pommel of the master sword. I'm not saying that this is a possibility, it's just my observation ....
Basically, Ganon time-travels in order to destroy Hyrule Library so that The Book of Mudora could not be used to gain the magic medallions (LTTP). Instead, the librarian suddenly jumps in front and was transformed into a silverfish by the attack. With the ability to transform into a silverfish, Link can quickly explore the library's many magic spells, so this Wii Zelda will definitely be more focused on magic attacks.
But I can definitely see the sword resemblance!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on January 15, 2010, 11:08:05 PM
I haven't read all the posts so I don't know if someone has already noticed this or not, but the silver figure next to Link kinda looks like the master sword. It sounds stupid, but try to envision it. The master sword has a gold diamond on it's hilt and the figure has one on it's chest. The over coat that the figure is wearing looks like the cross guard of the master sword. And finally the head of the figure looks like the pommel of the master sword. I'm not saying that this is a possibility, it's just my observation ....
yes, you and everyone else on the internet (who wasn't at the press conference) saw it instantly (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/n64/swordposs2.jpg)(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/n64/swordposs1.png)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 16, 2010, 12:10:38 AM
Basically, Ganon time-travels in order to destroy Hyrule Library so that The Book of Mudora could not be used to gain the magic medallions (LTTP). Instead, the librarian suddenly jumps in front and was transformed into a silverfish by the attack. With the ability to transform into a silverfish, Link can quickly explore the library's many magic spells, so this Wii Zelda will definitely be more focused on magic attacks.
But I can definitely see the sword resemblance!
This opens up many possibilities! I'm all excited now.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 20, 2010, 02:56:50 PM
I would put this in the rumor thread, but I'll just let it marinate in here for now. New Zelda Wii Information Leaked? (http://www.zeldainformer.com/2010/01/new-zelda-wii-information-leaked.php#more)
Quote
Zelda Wii is most likely the next installment in the series, and estimates say it should be out either this year or next. While Nintendo has done a great job at not leaking really anything concrete about the game itself... rumors are still rearing their head. Now, normally I wouldn't post about a rumor because most the time it's just that, however there is some reason to believe the rumors we have inside. They come from a popular japanese message board called 2chan, which is somewhat similar in style to our english based 4chan. What is interesting about rumors at this Japanese site is more often then not they turn out to be true. The game will be vary from the dungeon field dungeon method we are accustomed too (nothing new, Eiji Aonuma confirmed that last year).
You will be able to select right or left handed at the start, and Link will be left or right handed based on your selection
The gameplay and basic mechanics are complete.
They are currently polishing up the story and Characters.
One of the characters they are working on is a innkeeper in Link's home village who has a son that looks up to Link.
The girl in the art is not the Master Sword, and it appears the Master Sword will not be in the game.
The girls name from the painting could possibly be Adelle, Adella, or Aderu.
She is not with you throughout the game like Ezlo and Midna.
The face in the painting of her is not her real face. It's not fully elaborated on much, but it does say that it was a place holder concept art piece.(assuming the entire art itself was just concept work)
Link's sword is highly unique in this game, and will have several unlockable abilities. Adelle (or whatever her final name becomes) communicates with you through this sword.
There will be horseback combat. Epona will avoid obstacles automatically.
The models for 3 significant characters in the game have been touched up, but no they are not Zelda or Ganondorf. (google translate gives rough names of Link, Gorons, and Epona, but our translator said it's not specifically mentioned)
The idea of this version of Link also being The Hero of Time has been highly considered, and may already be implemented.
Time travel plays a roll in the game.
The game takes place in more then just Hyrule, and may possibly not be Hyrule at all.[/l][/l]
[/list]
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on January 20, 2010, 03:02:44 PM
I wouldn't put too much stock in anything 2chan has to say. The overall impression I've gotten of the thing on several anime boards I frequent is that 2chan has a rather seedy reputation and tends to be frequented by especially disturbed individuals.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on January 20, 2010, 03:09:34 PM
2ch or 2chan?
Anyway, with motion+ being centric to the game, I would be pretty pissed if you can't select Link's handedness, whether this rumor is true or not.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 20, 2010, 03:22:12 PM
One of the characters they are working on is a innkeeper in Link's home village who has a son that looks up to Link.
The idea of this version of Link also being The Hero of Time has been highly considered, and may already be implemented.
If he were the Hero of Time, I wouldn't expect him to have a home village. He's already heard the call to adventure, and settling down seems unlikely (unless it's with Malon ;) ).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on January 20, 2010, 04:44:00 PM
Hard to say if it's real or not, because this list is played pretty safe. It all seems very believable. Though aside from a horse no alternate mode of transportation? Something that can fly that may have been hinted at by Aonuma? Thats what I was waiting for, but then that will probably be the surprise gimick this time around.
EDIT How do we keep getting bolded in aftermath that is Reggie?
Unlockable sword secrets? I'm calling it now, if this is the case Link will be able to use a sword whip like Ivy from Soul Calibur. Now that would be an awesome and a very differen't weapon than we ever had before.
Also I was thinking, maybe this leak isn't playing it too safe saying that the girl really isn't the master sword. She really really does look like it thats for sure, and Miyamoto did point out very clearly that Link isn't holding a sword, so maybe there is some truth to it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 20, 2010, 04:56:32 PM
sword whip with M+ controls :drools:
Castlevania where you at?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on January 20, 2010, 04:57:27 PM
After Minish Cap and TP, I am sick of having to hunt down sword techniques.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 20, 2010, 05:04:30 PM
**** this Hero of Time rehash mess.
Hero of Tired and Old.
Thanks for the automatic bold, Reggie. :reggie:
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on January 20, 2010, 05:06:10 PM
I actually figure Nintendo would put a Motion pluss whip into the game soley to show what a Castlevania game on Wii could be like. As far as using a whip goes at least.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 20, 2010, 05:19:15 PM
Fine and all, but can we get rid of the "get item from dungeon and use it to beat boss" gimmick? Come on Shiggy, please?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 20, 2010, 05:19:55 PM
Though aside from a horse no alternate mode of transportation? Something that can fly that may have been hinted at by Aonuma? Thats what I was waiting for, but then that will probably be the surprise gimick this time around.
My favorite made-up rumor from TP speculation was that Link's companion for the game would be a shape-shifter that turned into a horse, eagle, wolf, and maybe other stuff. What you said just made me think of combining that with Minish Cap's shrinking, and then Link could be carried by his eagle friend. That would be pretty cool.
Not that I want a repeat of the shrinking feature if it means the whole game world is limited to Hyrule Castle's back yard again.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 20, 2010, 05:26:35 PM
Link joins forces with Banjo, who appears in the game as mechanic who creates vehicles for Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 20, 2010, 05:34:58 PM
Might as well add a hot air balloon to go along with all the other suggestions to turn the game into Ultima, actually.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on January 20, 2010, 05:36:59 PM
Maybe one of the witches' shrooms can help him get off the ground.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 20, 2010, 06:34:55 PM
Let's turn this around:
What's the WORSE they could do with the new game? I'll begin,
Rehash TP with added voice acting.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on January 21, 2010, 10:29:36 AM
A collection of minigames like link's crossbow training.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2010, 12:09:23 PM
Phillips cdi rehash?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on January 21, 2010, 12:58:37 PM
Link asking Zelda for a kiss, but with HIGH END voice acting.
Imagine all the Youtube Poops that can come from this!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 21, 2010, 01:30:35 PM
They could turn it into Zelda II Rebirth, side scrolling elements and all. (M+ excluded)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2010, 01:39:24 PM
Zelda II was a good game..
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 21, 2010, 02:43:12 PM
I thought so (which is why I'm not going to use the Triumph joke you appear to be fishing for).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2010, 02:59:25 PM
Actually I wasn't going for that, I was readying for the impact of BACKLASH from people who disagree. I'd never poop on zelda even if she asked me to*
* or hylians are german?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on January 22, 2010, 12:00:47 AM
ok if you guys are wondering about story and gameplay to a zelda game...the story at this point is an undeveloped mess....they really don't start hammering out the story till later on in the development. Early footage of many Zelda games attests to this.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 22, 2010, 12:08:27 AM
Last I heard (don't remember where) they were actually working on the storyline details now.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: decoyman on January 22, 2010, 12:52:24 PM
They could turn it into Zelda II Rebirth, side scrolling elements and all. (M+ excluded)
Zelda: Other Z?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on February 03, 2010, 05:39:30 PM
www.ignwii.com (http://www.ignwii.com)
"February 3, 2010 - It's been known for some time now that you'll be using the Wii MotionPlus to directly swing your sword in the next Zelda game. Today, we heard something new. The peripheral may play a part in puzzle-solving.
Producer Eiji Aonuma re-confirmed the game's MotionPlus requirement in an interview in this week's issue of Japan's Weekly Famitsu magazine. According to Aonuma, thanks to Wii MotionPlus, the game's sword swinging mechanics feel natural, like your controller and Link's sword are one.
There may be more than just swordplay in your swings, though. Aonuma hinted that how you kill off enemies could end up solving puzzles.
As with all current Zelda interviews, Aonuma was being a bit on the vague side here. But the wait for specifics may not be too long. Aonuma told Famitsu that he hopes to have the game in a playable state with all its core components in by June's E3. His aim is for the game to be playable at the trade show.
He also said that he's pushing his team to get the game out soon. The last time he made this kind of push, we ended up getting Spirit Tracks in time for the holidays. According to Aonuma, the staff had originally wanted a Spring 2010 release for the game.
Aonuma's encouragement worked with Spirit Tracks last year. If it works again, 2010's holidays could be merry indeed."
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on February 03, 2010, 07:34:46 PM
That would be lovely. Actual details are so scarce that I can't imagine it actually happening, but hey.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 03, 2010, 08:20:10 PM
Damn hype train...
OH **** LINKS THE CONDUCTOR
**** it I can't help but get on now!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on February 03, 2010, 09:25:11 PM
"Aonuma hinted that how you kill off enemies could end up solving puzzles. "
This is an exciting new direction. If it's actually out this year I will have a brain hemorrhage
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2010, 09:42:59 PM
Link makes his way to a big grey door that blocks his path. "Only the hand of a skeletal soldier will fit in this hole, and that is the only way to open this lock."
*Link runs off and cuts off the hand of a skeletal soldier*
Link finds another door with a small eye slot near the top. He knocks and the slot is opened. He is told that he doesn't look like any member of that club and the slot closes again.
*Link hides in the shadows waiting for the first member to leave. Follows him around the corner and cuts off his head. Holds it up to the slot next time he knocks*
You're right this is exciting!!!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 03, 2010, 09:49:44 PM
as much as i love the idea, i dont think nintendo would let you dismember enemies in zelda..
bummer :(
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on February 03, 2010, 09:55:23 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of cutting out an enemy's stomach to get a key.
Either that or a mohel sidequest.
Too bad.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on February 03, 2010, 09:58:51 PM
Hylian Center: Under The Sword
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 04, 2010, 01:23:10 AM
The next Zelda game will probably borrow alot of elements from franchises like Fable, Shadow of Collossus, Assassins Creed, and maybe even GTA(nothing mature).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on February 04, 2010, 02:22:32 AM
in like every zelda game one of the puzzles has been kill all the enemies in a room to get the secret zelda noise, right now im designing portal levels with just that idea
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on February 04, 2010, 02:24:15 AM
With what
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on February 04, 2010, 06:24:20 AM
Source Engine I'll bet.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 04, 2010, 02:43:41 PM
I don't think he's talking about dismembering at all. Rather, maybe dis-attaching a bag or piece of armor from an enemy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2010, 03:29:20 PM
I was joking around, but on a serious note, I'm sure he meant something like you encounter an enemy who has armor on. This armor has 4 stones. 1 Red on his chest, 2 blue on his shoulders and 1 green on his head. You have to destroy the stones in order with targeted attacks other wise he will remain invincible. That is the puzzle
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 04, 2010, 03:34:33 PM
Swing the Megaton Hammer UP to pop the enemy in a trajectory that will properly press the wall button.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 04, 2010, 06:52:54 PM
now THATS more like it ;)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 04, 2010, 07:00:16 PM
Or you could use your bow.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 04, 2010, 07:09:38 PM
The sword came first
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on February 04, 2010, 07:12:48 PM
"Link! Link! Extinguish the flame! Try spurting blood!"
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 04, 2010, 07:15:06 PM
How about in the new game Link's Tunic takes damage as he loses hearts. By the time link has one heart left, his tunic would be torn to pieces like Goku's out fit in DBZ. Although the graphics engine would have to be pretty robust to attempt something of this caliber, but it would be cool none the less.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 04, 2010, 07:50:57 PM
How about in the new game Link's Tunic takes damage as he loses hearts. By the time link has one heart left, his tunic would be torn to pieces like Goku's out fit in DBZ. Although the graphics engine would have to be pretty robust to attempt something of this caliber, but it would be cool none the less.
They did a decent enough job showing his tunic get wet after coming out of water, and that was on the GC engine.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 04, 2010, 08:39:55 PM
It would look weird when he restores his hearts though. It would magically repair itself. That only really works one way, unless we buy another tunic everytime it gets damaged.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 04, 2010, 08:58:48 PM
well its atleast something to spend rupees on right?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2010, 09:01:10 PM
It would look weird when he restores his hearts though. It would magically repair itself. That only really works one way, unless we buy another tunic everytime it gets damaged.
It worked for Ghouls and ghosts and Maximo, why not the zelda franchise? Those games you lost armour as you were attacked. I would like to see it happen.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 05, 2010, 12:44:22 AM
It would look weird when he restores his hearts though. It would magically repair itself. That only really works one way, unless we buy another tunic everytime it gets damaged.
Fair enough. But how did it work? Did the armour magically reappear or was it permanently lost? It worked for Ghouls and ghosts and Maximo, why not the zelda franchise? Those games you lost armour as you were attacked. I would like to see it happen.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on February 05, 2010, 12:59:06 PM
It would look weird when he restores his hearts though. It would magically repair itself. That only really works one way, unless we buy another tunic everytime it gets damaged.
It worked for Ghouls and ghosts and Maximo, why not the zelda franchise? Those games you lost armour as you were attacked. I would like to see it happen.
For the latter, that was just a shout-out and nothing else. Sir Arthur losing his armor is one of those Capcom staples that just won't go away, like Ryu's Hadoken.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 06, 2010, 12:18:58 AM
How about applying ti to Link?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on February 06, 2010, 02:16:51 AM
It would look weird when he restores his hearts though. It would magically repair itself. That only really works one way, unless we buy another tunic everytime it gets damaged.
It's a maaaaaagic tunic! ::)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on February 06, 2010, 02:39:51 AM
Actually I always thought the standard Nintendo method of indicating low healt, where the character starts panting, looking exhausted, etc, was really quite good... (it really helps during play, where sometimes you forget to keep track of the health bar)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on February 06, 2010, 02:42:54 AM
I also prefer that over the beep beep beep beep beep beep
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 06, 2010, 03:47:50 AM
Actually I always thought the standard Nintendo method of indicating low healt, where the character starts panting, looking exhausted, etc, was really quite good... (it really helps during play, where sometimes you forget to keep track of the health bar)
I was about to ask if you didn't notice the constant beeping until you find some health, but Zap beat me to it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on February 06, 2010, 04:11:18 AM
Actually I always thought the standard Nintendo method of indicating low healt, where the character starts panting, looking exhausted, etc, was really quite good... (it really helps during play, where sometimes you forget to keep track of the health bar)
I was about to ask if you didn't notice the constant beeping until you find some health
Oddly enough, no. (It beeps?!)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 06, 2010, 11:36:08 AM
Actually I always thought the standard Nintendo method of indicating low healt, where the character starts panting, looking exhausted, etc, was really quite good... (it really helps during play, where sometimes you forget to keep track of the health bar)
I like the panting, exhausted method with Link's Tunic being shredded due to battle damage.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on February 06, 2010, 11:55:32 AM
It would be cool if the torn up tunic wasn't connected to your health. What I mean is that when you take damage your equipment shows wear, and when you heal it doesn't reset your equipment. I would like to see the shield get scuffed and dented as well. In order to fix up your equipment you could buy new stuff. What I don't want is for it to turn into diablo or something where you have to repair your gear all the time or it breaks and becomes useless. I think that if the changes are all aesthetic only, then it won't effect the gameplay if you don't fix your gear, but it would give you something to spend your rupees on. You could also have link get scraped up during battle, but then have the scrapes and stuff heal when you get hearts.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 06, 2010, 01:21:35 PM
A tunic shop in town would work. Different colors and slightly different styles. Your tunic slowly gets destroyed in battle, if you are without a tunic, any damage causes double damage. You have to go get a new tunic. Eventually you can find material that won't do take damage (for your magic tunic <uses rupees in place of loss of hearts> and master tunic <just shows no damage>)
Also maybe the wooden shield would be destroyed and you have to replace it, but the metal shields get scratched, chipped and cracked and need to be replaced(you start taking 1/4 damage while blocking). Only special shields (Master Shield, Mirror Shield, Magic Shield) would never show damage, and that's why they are highly sought after items.
All of that would definitely give you something to spend all those worthless rupees on.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mikintosh on February 06, 2010, 03:13:16 PM
It would be cool if the torn up tunic wasn't connected to your health. What I mean is that when you take damage your equipment shows wear, and when you heal it doesn't reset your equipment. I would like to see the shield get scuffed and dented as well. In order to fix up your equipment you could buy new stuff. What I don't want is for it to turn into diablo or something where you have to repair your gear all the time or it breaks and becomes useless. I think that if the changes are all aesthetic only, then it won't effect the gameplay if you don't fix your gear, but it would give you something to spend your rupees on. You could also have link get scraped up during battle, but then have the scrapes and stuff heal when you get hearts.
Yeah, my main concern is that it not effect gameplay; I don't want to get to a boss and discover I'm taking double-damage because my tunic's ripped. But in Zelda games I already usually spend all my rupees on the red & green potions; I never find myself with a ton of them left over at the end of the game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 06, 2010, 03:42:14 PM
The way I would envision it is that you could carry an extra set of tunicsjust like you can carry extra potions and things like that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on February 06, 2010, 04:05:19 PM
I don't think I would want attacks to do more damage, like I said before, I would prefer it not affect the gameplay at all. The motivation for buying a new tunic or shield would be superficial, just to not be walking around in tatters with and a dented up shield. I like the idea of different styles of tunics and shields and then certain equipment that is invulnerable. That way even if you have the special tunic or shield you might prefer to use other equipment because you like the way it looks, and that would be your incentive to keep it in good shape.
If it's going to affect gameplay at all, I would rather that NPC's react differently to you when your clothing is in bad shape. Maybe a certain side quest are requires you to have an expensive tunic that impresses hylian aristocrats. Or maybe people don't treat you with respect if your tunic is ripped up and you get kicked out of certain shops.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on February 06, 2010, 04:46:10 PM
I like that. Reminds me of MM when people would say different things depending on the mask.
edit oh no, i just had another idea :Q for those that want a girl Link.. how about a Some Like it Hot plot line.
The musician angle, the train, NPC "interaction", stealth, mobsters/moblins, the alternate outfits... it all fits perfectly with Zelda as Marilyn Monroe.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on February 07, 2010, 12:09:13 AM
Remember that Ocarina of Time had the destroyable wooden shield initially so you could see something similar return. Also you could lose your standard Hylian shield by those worm monsters that ate you and spat you out without your equipment and you had to kill them to get it back. That happens in most every Zelda game. Also in Majora's Mask on of the middle sword upgrades - the Razor Sword- would break after a number of uses unless you completed a quest to upgrade it a second time before if breaks. So there is precedence for damageable equipment.
Also, instead of taking more damage when your weapons and equipment take damage, how about that is how you get the special 'energy bolts'. In previous games Link could shoot energy bolts from his sword when he had full health but in this game maybe that power is hinged on proper equipment care. That move was never essential to playing the game but was a nice and fun addition and added extra incentive and challenge to make sure you never got hit and lost the power. So if your sword wears down you have to take it to the blacksmith to get it re-tempered.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 07, 2010, 02:42:40 AM
All this sounds too RPG'ie to me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 07, 2010, 01:54:17 PM
Isn't Zelda Nintendo's idea of an RPG? I like the idea of Link's tunic taking damage as he loses hearts. Perhaps as the outfit becomes damaged, you could replace the damaged pieces with that of othe clothing, like giving Link a shoulder pad. How about giving Link a cape or cloak to wear over his Tunic.
Second, I have heard that the master sword will not be in the game, so, what if the game tell the story of how the master sword will come into exisistence. Supposedly Nintendo wants to introduce sword skills that can be unlocked for particular weapons. Maybe Link starts out with a normal sword and over the course of the game as you upgrade it progressivly becomes the Master Sword. Once the final boss is beaten, Link already has the master sword and then places it into the pedastal for future Links to use in battle.
Lastly, I have heared that Nintendo is thinking of introducing flight mechanics into the game. So people believe that a airship could appear over the land of hyrule. However, how a device similar to the flying machins in Assassins Creed 2. You could control the flight mechanics similar to the plane Wii Sports Resort. Or you coud flap your arms(motion control) to make the machine fly.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on February 07, 2010, 02:05:39 PM
How about giving Link a cape or cloak to wear over his Tunic.
Only if it makes him invisible...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 07, 2010, 02:43:20 PM
Zelda is classified as an Action RPG.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on February 07, 2010, 03:10:01 PM
the tunic thing wouldnt be that hard, he would just have to heave a seperate model for the tunic, and the texture would just get replaced by alpha decals.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on February 07, 2010, 10:23:44 PM
the tunic thing wouldnt be that hard, he would just have to heave a seperate model for the tunic, and the texture would just get replaced by alpha decals.
As was already mentioned, something like this was already done with the masks in MM, so it is certainly possible. I realize that it borders dangerously close to RPG territory, and the last thing I want is to have to worry about the durability of my equipment in battle and spend time doing inventory management. That's why it would be far more effective if is used in the same manner as the masks in MM to elicit different reactions from NPC's.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on February 07, 2010, 10:32:00 PM
well, with the new sword mechanics, battling might reach new levels of complexity, so they may just be harder, and armor update system might be in the cards to adjust for the added difficulty. I don't mind RPG elemenents in Zelda, just as long as it doesn't become some shitty JRPG or a level-up-athon.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on February 07, 2010, 11:11:42 PM
Oh god, I don't want that JRPG stuff. The only recent JRPG I played recently was Secret of Mana via VC, and that wasn't bad on the JRPG stats.
How is your opinion on Zelda 2, Perm?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on February 08, 2010, 03:51:59 AM
i have never really played classic Zelda games in depth (i do own the special edition gcn disc with Zelda 1 & 2), and their just hard for me to get into. I might pop them in sometime, but i got into the series in the n64 era, and playing them is strange. From what i did play of 2 i was annoyed by the sort of almost random fight scenes, at least they weren't turned based. On the other hand there are RPGs i do like, like Earthbound and Paper Mario. Im an outsider on the FFVII deal, i never liked that game, i never enjoyed it. Even in that time period i thought it was overated, and the gameplay was annoying, and the story was unimpressive.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mac<censored> on February 08, 2010, 08:52:58 AM
Im an outsider on the FFVII deal, i never liked that game, i never enjoyed it. Even in that time period i thought it was overated, and the gameplay was annoying, and the story was unimpressive.
Totally agree on that. FFVII was pretty much the most over-rated game ever, a total horror-show of cringe-inducing melodrama and cardboard characters, which weren't helped by the crap presentation.
Even worse, it seemed to mark the point where Square's collective head started to swell beyond all imagining, a process no doubt much aided by all the frothing people did over FFVII. After that, one gets the impression Square thought of themselves as "artists"...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 09, 2010, 09:23:00 PM
Do you think Nintendo could introduce hand-to-hand combat for when Link is not using his sword? Link could punch and kick via motion controls in the same Travis Touchdown used them for his beam katana.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on February 09, 2010, 09:50:41 PM
Link's Balance Board Aerobics Training?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on February 09, 2010, 09:57:58 PM
Use the Vitality Sensor, and Link starts panting when you do!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 09, 2010, 10:01:41 PM
The Tae-Bo of Zelda
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 09, 2010, 10:35:08 PM
I've always loved the fact that, although structured, Zelda is wide open in its possibilities. It's one series that seems to use each technological advantage a system has better than any game out there, dare I say, even better than Mario. No matter how you look at the idea to use cel-shading or the transformation to a wolf, Zelda has consistently tweaked their gameplay for the better in each iteration. It's amazing really and a testiment to how devoted Nintendo is to making a great game. And I can't help but feel that this one, this New Wii Zelda, will be even better than everyone before it.
We've all speculated for years now on how the game will play or what the design will be or even what tools Link will use (and even speculated a Zelda game without Link). Well I know something that isn't speculation: Zelda Wii will be the finest looking, cleanest controlling, most respected game on the Wii or any console. So all aboard the hype train!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 09, 2010, 11:36:16 PM
The Legend of Zelda wii will probably be the Batman Begins of the franchise. I have heared that Nintendo talked about how the old Zelda formula is getting a little stale and that this new game will set the standard for future wii games to build upon like OoT did for MM, WW and TP. Essesntially a reboot of the series, but Nintendo will keep what made the old games popular while adding something fresh so that the series does not get old and dated. I have a strong feeling that what ever this new game is that it will rock the foundation of the series, probably more than OoT did in the N64 era.
Secondly, I have a hunch that sometime in this decade Nintendo will fully embrace online gaming and once this happens, there is a possibility that there could be a LoZ MMO in the near future. I am not saying the new game will be an MMO, but a future game in the series might be some day.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on February 09, 2010, 11:42:58 PM
Development for the game did start right after Twilight Princess was finished, and if the formula, which IMHO was starting to get a bit stale, is changed up for the better, this could end up being the Wii's crown jewel.
Which is currently held by Super Mario Galaxy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 09, 2010, 11:43:47 PM
I believe you may be right in terms of Nintendo fully embracing online without restrictions this decade, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I allow a LoZ MMO especially before Pokemon, a series that is begging for it, turns into one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 10, 2010, 12:31:08 AM
The new Zelda game may be the biggest project that Nintendo has taken on in its years of gaming. Much bigger than any game or console, including the wii itself. If not the biggesst, then certainly the most ambitious. This game may truly define what the wii is exactly trying to prove to the consumer and fans. Games released after this one will have to adapt to what ever standard that it sets in the gaming community. The PS3 and 360 motion controlled games may learn something as well. In a sense, the game may manifest a sense of universalism among the gaming communities.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 10, 2010, 12:33:06 AM
That's exactly right. It seems out to prove everyone else wrong.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 10, 2010, 12:43:59 AM
As much as people love motion controls, it seems largely ignored by the "hardcore" community. I think this game is out to prove everyone wrong.
Big words considering we know literally nothing about it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 10, 2010, 02:12:04 PM
We actually know a lot about it.
We know it's going to revolve around M+ We know it's going to be very different from previous Zelda's We know it won't release until it is "Perfect" We know it's been in development for over 4 years We know it's going to be graphically superior to TP We know it's going to control better than TP
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on February 10, 2010, 02:20:00 PM
We also know that the gaming media will find something wrong with it, no matter how great it is.
And the Zel-tards will find something to bitch about.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 10, 2010, 02:38:24 PM
That's very true.
And I wonder if we can assume it's going to use "Super Guide" or whatever.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 10, 2010, 04:24:22 PM
And I wonder if we can assume it's going to use "Super Guide" or whatever.
Perhaps, didn't the original Super Guide patents use "The Legend of OO" as an example of how the SG would work? It'd seem odd if Nintendo would patent the idea using something that not only sounds, but looks like, a Zelda title and not use it in one. NSMBW was like a watered down version of what the SG could be, considering the jump it would make moving from a side scrolling game ot a full 3D one.
I believe you may be right in terms of Nintendo fully embracing online without restrictions this decade, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I allow a LoZ MMO especially before Pokemon, a series that is begging for it, turns into one.
I on the other hand would NOT want to see a Zelda MMO. Maybe a spin-off or something, but they might as well create a new IP if they want to jump in to MMO territory... OH GOD I SOUND LIKE IAN!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2010, 04:46:01 PM
I believe you may be right in terms of Nintendo fully embracing online without restrictions this decade, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I allow a LoZ MMO especially before Pokemon, a series that is begging for it, turns into one.
I on the other hand would NOT want to see a Zelda MMO. Maybe a spin-off or something, but they might as well create a new IP if they want to jump in to MMO territory... OH GOD I SOUND LIKE IAN!
No, if they want to jump into MMO territory, they better start with Pokemon. The whole series from the beginning including the cartoons seems like it was unknowingly created with MMO in mind.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 10, 2010, 05:21:07 PM
I believe you may be right in terms of Nintendo fully embracing online without restrictions this decade, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I allow a LoZ MMO especially before Pokemon, a series that is begging for it, turns into one.
I on the other hand would NOT want to see a Zelda MMO. Maybe a spin-off or something, but they might as well create a new IP if they want to jump in to MMO territory... OH GOD I SOUND LIKE IAN!
No, if they want to jump into MMO territory, they better start with Pokemon. The whole series from the beginning including the cartoons seems like it was unknowingly created with MMO in mind.
Actually thats true, I'm no longer a big pokemon fan so it's not in my head enough for me to have made this post. If Nintendo wants to make an MMO, they start with pokemon. If they want to make one (after a Pokemon MMO) that involves a fantasy land with swords and magic, etc, then they should create a new IP and just leave Zelda alone. Or just make a Fire Emblem one, I don't know much about the series but being a more typical RPG with multiple characters, it'd lend itself better to an MMO than Zelda, a solo experience, would.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on February 10, 2010, 06:42:01 PM
I get this feeling that when people ask for an MMO they really don't know what the hell they're asking for. It's like that's the in thing these days so I should take everything I like and instinctively add "MMO" to the end of it. Yar's Revenge MMO!! YEAH!
MMO's suck nuts anyway. To get the format to work with so many players the whole thing boils down to a time consuming grindfest.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2010, 06:55:40 PM
But isn't that what Pokemon is?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 10, 2010, 07:22:47 PM
What would a Zelda MMO be like in terms of game play?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on February 10, 2010, 09:02:08 PM
I believe you may be right in terms of Nintendo fully embracing online without restrictions this decade, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I allow a LoZ MMO especially before Pokemon, a series that is begging for it, turns into one.
I on the other hand would NOT want to see a Zelda MMO. Maybe a spin-off or something, but they might as well create a new IP if they want to jump in to MMO territory... OH GOD I SOUND LIKE IAN!
No, if they want to jump into MMO territory, they better start with Pokemon. The whole series from the beginning including the cartoons seems like it was unknowingly created with MMO in mind.
Actually thats true, I'm no longer a big pokemon fan so it's not in my head enough for me to have made this post. If Nintendo wants to make an MMO, they start with pokemon. If they want to make one (after a Pokemon MMO) that involves a fantasy land with swords and magic, etc, then they should create a new IP and just leave Zelda alone. Or just make a Fire Emblem one, I don't know much about the series but being a more typical RPG with multiple characters, it'd lend itself better to an MMO than Zelda, a solo experience, would.
I thought the use of "a cold day in hell" was pretty emphatic :)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on February 10, 2010, 09:18:42 PM
TLDR: There's no reason to play Pokemon online with other players outside of battles and trading. Same goes for most of Nintendo's other franchises, which focus on individual battles or game sessions, rather than persistent-world mechanics.
Pokemon isn't suitable for an MMO because there's no reason to play the main game with other players, on- or off-line. The only parts of Pokemon that support any online component are the battle mode and the Global Trade, which both make use of the internet to find suitable players. Otherwise, there's no point in walking around not!Japan while your buddy is on the other side of the in-game continent; what's to guarantee that you're playing in the same area and can progress together? The real multiplayer component of Pokemon comes from the metagame, the society and subculture it creates.
Mario and Zelda have both experimented with the multiplayer field: the most recent (and most successful) trek has been NSMBWii, which was more of a face-to-face thing, and before then there was the short-lived Four Swords franchise. In both of these cases, multiplayer was based on a cooperative/competitive mode of play, as opposed to the typical persistent-world approach for MMOs.
The only thing an online component would bring to Nintendo's multiplayer philosophy is player matchmaking, as they did with Pokemon's Global Trade System, SSBBrawl, and Mario Kart Wii, but it's general consensus Nintendo still lacks the serious technical chops to make synchronous online play feasible for most of their own games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2010, 09:40:57 PM
I know this topic isn't about Pokemon, but how is Pokemon not suitable to be an MMO? you woander around and hunt pokemon, then endlessly grind your pokemon to level up and eventually evolve if you want then you take them to Dojo's where you battle against the established local talent for trophies then move on to the next area.
That is the practically the definition of MMO and would work perfectly as one if it was given the chance to. With a never ending amount of tournaments and always the need to protect your title, the constant introduction of new Pokemon and new areas in which to find them would be a non-stop revenue generating phenomenon. Not to mention special pokeballs or the need to get new pokeballs, and more starage space, and etc etc etc..... How could you think otherwise? Or maybe it's just because I've never actually played a Pokemon game that I've got it all wrong, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 10, 2010, 09:47:29 PM
I believe you may be right in terms of Nintendo fully embracing online without restrictions this decade, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I allow a LoZ MMO especially before Pokemon, a series that is begging for it, turns into one.
I on the other hand would NOT want to see a Zelda MMO. Maybe a spin-off or something, but they might as well create a new IP if they want to jump in to MMO territory... OH GOD I SOUND LIKE IAN!
No, if they want to jump into MMO territory, they better start with Pokemon. The whole series from the beginning including the cartoons seems like it was unknowingly created with MMO in mind.
Actually thats true, I'm no longer a big pokemon fan so it's not in my head enough for me to have made this post. If Nintendo wants to make an MMO, they start with pokemon. If they want to make one (after a Pokemon MMO) that involves a fantasy land with swords and magic, etc, then they should create a new IP and just leave Zelda alone. Or just make a Fire Emblem one, I don't know much about the series but being a more typical RPG with multiple characters, it'd lend itself better to an MMO than Zelda, a solo experience, would.
I thought the use of "a cold day in hell" was pretty emphatic :)
I was too lazy to go back to the previous page and quote the person you were commenting to :)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on February 10, 2010, 09:51:13 PM
With a never ending amount of tournaments and always the need to protect your title, the constant introduction of new Pokemon and new areas in which to find them would be a non-stop revenue generating phenomenon. Not to mention special pokeballs or the need to get new pokeballs, and more starage space, and etc etc etc..... How could you think otherwise?
It already works like that. :P:
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 10, 2010, 09:53:36 PM
The future of Pokemans is DLC.
EAT IT
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2010, 10:09:06 PM
With a never ending amount of tournaments and always the need to protect your title, the constant introduction of new Pokemon and new areas in which to find them would be a non-stop revenue generating phenomenon. Not to mention special pokeballs or the need to get new pokeballs, and more starage space, and etc etc etc..... How could you think otherwise?
It already works like that. :P:
I know, now throw 10's to 100's of 1000's people all doing it together at the same time, double teaming new ennviromental or non-pokemon challenges from NPC Anti-Pokemon wanna be team rockets (or whoever everyone would go against) and the ability to watch and/or participate in giant Battle Arena battles for rare prizes, fame and pokemon. Sound like a recipe for MMO Platinum to me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 10, 2010, 10:26:57 PM
With a never ending amount of tournaments and always the need to protect your title, the constant introduction of new Pokemon and new areas in which to find them would be a non-stop revenue generating phenomenon. Not to mention special pokeballs or the need to get new pokeballs, and more starage space, and etc etc etc..... How could you think otherwise?
It already works like that. :P:
Not to mention viewing high ranking pokemon battles (live!?) and being able to bet money, or even pokemon, on the outcome. Sounds addictive..
I know, now throw 10's to 100's of 1000's people all doing it together at the same time, double teaming new ennviromental or non-pokemon challenges from NPC Anti-Pokemon wanna be team rockets (or whoever everyone would go against) and the ability to watch and/or participate in giant Battle Arena battles for rare prizes, fame and pokemon. Sound like a recipe for MMO Platinum to me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on February 10, 2010, 10:28:19 PM
Get your MMO discussion away from my Zelda. I don't want them touching
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on February 11, 2010, 04:24:26 AM
Get your MMO discussion away from my Zelda. I don't want them touching
MMO cooties are the worst kind.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 11, 2010, 03:29:41 PM
So MMO's are like the herpes of the gaming world?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on February 11, 2010, 06:30:32 PM
Zelda is built to be a single player experience, there is no way it would ever translate into an MMO. Part of the appeal is that you are a hero, alone against whatever evil threatens the land. MMO's always feel like you're just one of hundreds of hired guns, out to grind your way to the top.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 11, 2010, 06:33:25 PM
Pokemon?
ok, ok, I'll stop bringing it up now
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 11, 2010, 07:50:01 PM
They could always combine the franchises.
The Legend of Zelda: Spiritual Pokeballs
Link traverses Hyrule and its many dungeons to battle against the dungeon leader.. The Evergreen Temple Leader uses Bulbasaur, who does link choose?!
"CUCCO, I CHOOSE YOU!"
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 11, 2010, 08:37:31 PM
I think The Legend of Zelda: The PokeWhisperer would also be a fitting title.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 11, 2010, 08:45:07 PM
Zelda is built to be a single player experience, there is no way it would ever translate into an MMO. Part of the appeal is that you are a hero, alone against whatever evil threatens the land. MMO's always feel like you're just one of hundreds of hired guns, out to grind your way to the top.
It could just be a game set in the Zelda universe. For example, you could be one of the pirates in The Wind Waker or one of those "mercenaries" in Twilight Princess. I am not saying I support the idea (the only MMO I could see myself playing is a Pokemon MMO), but I think it could work.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on February 11, 2010, 09:03:02 PM
Zelda is built to be a single player experience, there is no way it would ever translate into an MMO. Part of the appeal is that you are a hero, alone against whatever evil threatens the land. MMO's always feel like you're just one of hundreds of hired guns, out to grind your way to the top.
It could just be a game set in the Zelda universe. For example, you could be one of the pirates in The Wind Waker or one of those "mercenaries" in Twilight Princess. I am not saying I support the idea (the only MMO I could see myself playing is a Pokemon MMO), but I think it could work.
Yes, it could work; you can choose to be a pirate, a mercanary, a goron, a zora, a wizard, a moblin, etc etc etc..
But the Legends are about Link rescuing Hyrule, not a band of misfits going on quests and level grinding.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on February 12, 2010, 01:05:25 AM
I would like for Nintendo to have a fist fight between Link and Ganon similar to the one between Colonol Volgin and Snake in MGS3. You know the one where he is disguised as Raiden and meets Sokolov. Volgin then beats him down.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on February 12, 2010, 01:22:24 AM
I once had an idea for an RPG campaign in the Zelda universe (or my interpretation of it).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kairon on February 12, 2010, 01:24:16 AM
I would like for Nintendo to have a fist fight between Link and Ganon similar to the one between Colonol Volgin and Snake in MGS3. You know the one where he is disguised as Raiden and meets Sokolov. Volgin then beats him down.
A playable fight or something for a cut scene (or even a QTE)? I'm not sure a playable fight would work with zelda controls.. then again we don't really know what they plan on doing with motion+, so anythings possible right?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on February 13, 2010, 01:11:27 PM
You know, I never thought of those as QTEs, which I would say is an attribute of how well they were made. You are referring to the 'strike' moments when fighting that allow you to press the action button and pull off an amazing roll/dodge attack, right?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on March 22, 2010, 05:39:25 PM
Miyamoto speaks of Vitality Sensor ideas.
Nothing confirmed, but just another quote from www.n-europe.com
'"Miyamoto said that, "it is also fun to think of ways in which we might apply that new technology to exisiting [sic] forms of gameplay". He then moved directly onto the upcoming Legend of Zelda Wii title and how it could be used. One such example was "...to incorporate the Vitality Sensor into Zelda so that as you become more scared, the enemies become even tougher."'
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=13941
I think it sounds awesome, and may not happen this Zelda, but surely the next. But where would one attach it to play a normal 2 handed game?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 22, 2010, 05:46:09 PM
I think it has been said before that the vitality sensor can be attached to your ear or maybe it could be put on your pinky on your hand. Middle finger could work and your index finger could work as well. My pointer finger and thumb are what I use mostly to play games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 22, 2010, 07:24:48 PM
It's not so much a matter of where you'd attach it as it is whether it has a pass-through port that would let you attach both it and a nunchuk.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on March 22, 2010, 09:56:08 PM
I think it has been said before that the vitality sensor can be attached to your....
[insert little dick jokes here]
Fixed ;)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on March 22, 2010, 11:22:15 PM
I will never buy a vitality sensor used because of this. Never!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on March 23, 2010, 12:17:50 AM
I remember reading an article a few years ago where a father caught his daughter using a Dualshock 2 inappropriately. I'll just assume most of you can guess what she was doing. And, no, I don't think the prongs on a DS2 are long enough for that, but then again, small setbacks never stopped anyone from doing something stupid (or awesome, depending on your point of view). The point of this: no used controller is safe, not from touching another dude's dong by proxy or from a teenage girl's vaginal secretions. No amount of Lysol will ever make those controllers clean ever again. On a related note, this might be the most disgusting post I've ever written. I'll see myself out.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on March 23, 2010, 12:24:30 AM
I remember reading an article a few years ago where a father caught his daughter using a Dualshock 2 inappropriately. I'll just assume most of you can guess what she was doing. And, no, I don't think the prongs on a DS2 are long enough for that, but then again, small setbacks never stopped anyone from doing something stupid (or awesome, depending on your point of view). The point of this: no used controller is safe, not from touching another dude's dong by proxy or from a teenage girl's vaginal secretions. No amount of Lysol will ever make those controllers clean ever again. On a related note, this might be the most disgusting post I've ever written. I'll see myself out.
Henceforth I wil buy all of my controllers new so that if any one does anythin weird with them it will be me. :cool;
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 23, 2010, 12:29:51 AM
Come on these types of jokes belong in the funhouse.
Anyway I think the vitality sensor has good applications in Zelda. Your shaky hand and nervousness could mess up the trajectory of your boomerang. The enemy's could sense your apprehension and go after you or you could have your adrenaline going and they run away from you.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 23, 2010, 01:02:25 AM
The point of this: no used controller is safe, not from touching another dude's dong by proxy or from a teenage girl's vaginal secretions. No amount of Lysol will ever make those controllers clean ever again.
OTOH, there are probably people who would pay very good money for them...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on March 23, 2010, 07:02:32 AM
The point of this: no used controller is safe, not from touching another dude's dong by proxy or from a teenage girl's vaginal secretions. No amount of Lysol will ever make those controllers clean ever again.
OTOH, there are probably people who would pay very good money for them...
They could stock them in those vending machines in Japan that sell used undies. But remember, Japan already has something like what that girl wanted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rez#Trance_Vibrator).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on March 28, 2010, 03:28:21 PM
The point of this: no used controller is safe, not from touching another dude's dong by proxy or from a teenage girl's vaginal secretions. No amount of Lysol will ever make those controllers clean ever again.
OTOH, there are probably people who would pay very good money for them...
They could stock them in those vending machines in Japan that sell used undies. But remember, Japan already has something like what that girl wanted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rez#Trance_Vibrator).
That's a good idea and a great way to make extra spending money on my trip in a few months! THANKS!
Anyway I think the vitality sensor has good applications in Zelda. Your shaky hand and nervousness could mess up the trajectory of your boomerang. The enemy's could sense your apprehension and go after you or you could have your adrenaline going and they run away from you.
The only time I'm nervous if I'm in a Zelda game is if I'm low on hearts, that beeping is on and I'm stuck in a room full of enemies. However it's been so long since any new Zelda game has done that to me, the vitality sensor would never kick in :P
I'd llike to see a scenario where you're breezing through a dungeon, the VS sensing you're in a calm state, and when you reach a mid-boss it becomes ultra volatile inducing an almost panic state in the player. Say the mid-boss gets one free hit on you and depletes your hearts to exactly half of what you had going in.. The actual battle starts, you're dodging trying not to get hit again thinking you'll perish only to find that your hits are having no affect. Now you're really fucked. But, you do your best to calm down and reach a state of focus* where you're able to attack more effectively (and somehow the damage taken lessens as well).
*by this I mean, per some story driven game mechanic, the mastersword could lose power when your heart rate is up (by the game purposely becoming more difficult) until you calm yourself down to a stable heart rate. Once his is achieved, the game could indicate the swords restored power with a mystical glow.
I just think the game (through the VS) actively trying to alter your pulse in order for you to take control of it is pretty neat. That is, as opposed to more simpler effects taking place due to standard gameplay.
Hm, on second thought.. imagine the game taking that idea to a more extreme place? What if the game doesn't wait for that mid-boss scenario and throws a strong enemy at you to increase your heartrate? I'm picturing a Nemesis type scenario from the RE series, but not scripted. Perhaps (within a dungeon) after a set amount of time with a certain steady heart rate, the game throws an enemy out you that damages you as I described above. Imagine one of TP's Darknut enemies (but bigger! :D) appearing and fighting you in any given room of a dungeon? One that could just interupt your progression through a seemingly easy puzzle, trapping you in a room that might not make the best battle arena..
Now THAT would be an epic Zelda experience ;)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on March 28, 2010, 06:28:18 PM
Everytime I try to think of a way to use the VS in a game, I can't help but match it up with insanity effects. After reading your post, I feel that a Zelda with insanity effects brought on by the VS could be pretty damn interesting.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 28, 2010, 07:03:45 PM
EasyCure that is probably the best idea I have heard for the vitality sensor.
Hmm do you have any ideas on horseback swordplay and the vitality sensor?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on March 29, 2010, 01:42:49 PM
If Zelda used the VS it would have the strongest effect on me in dungeons with Wallmasters. What's worse than an enemy that takes you back to the beginning of the dungeon? It's practically a one-hit kill.
Like Likes would also get me going since they eat your shield. :(
EasyCure's ideas are awesome but in a way seem wasted on a Zelda game. They would be more effective in a horror environment. I don't think Nintendo is going to make Zelda into a really scary game, and I don't even think it's really appropriate. The idea would better suit a new IP where the devs can be free to come up with whatever scary **** they want without having to make it fit the expectations of a Zelda game. Plus horror works best with an 'M' rating and Zelda is never going to have that (and probably shouldn't).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on March 29, 2010, 05:50:34 PM
I really do like the idea that the game will throw you a curveball, and I agree with Ian (holy ****!), it would be better suited for a horror game.
That said, I always hated those Zombies. First of all, the scream always freaks me out, then you can't move as they slowly creep towards to rape you. When theres a **** ton of them your basically fucked (like in OOT where you learn the Sun Song).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on March 29, 2010, 08:00:02 PM
didn't Miyamoto say he wanted to make a survival horror game?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on March 29, 2010, 08:38:51 PM
As long as the vitality sensor becomes a wrist band instead of a finger thing I'm all for it, but for now it seems to be pretty uncofortable
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on March 29, 2010, 08:41:49 PM
if it becomes part of the wii mote seat belt wrist and that would be pretty awesome
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 29, 2010, 09:02:58 PM
The Vitality Sensor should be used to increase your accuracy when firing a weapon if you can slow your breathing and heart rate.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on March 29, 2010, 09:22:32 PM
lol metal gear solid
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on March 30, 2010, 04:55:31 AM
The Vitality Sensor should be used to increase your accuracy when firing a weapon if you can slow your breathing and heart rate.
Think of in Modern Warfare where you can hold your breath as a sniper to steady your aim for a short period before you run out of breath. If they could tie something like that to archery could have a good Zelda application.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on March 30, 2010, 01:37:19 PM
The Vitality Sensor should be used to increase your accuracy when firing a weapon if you can slow your breathing and heart rate.
This is quite an interesting idea. Too bad that once it comes to frutation, Zelda fans will find some way to complain about it. =D
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 30, 2010, 02:13:54 PM
People complain about having to hold a "simulated weapon" thingie in their hands (the Remote), and having to hold it still to actually achieve steady aim.
What a bunch of fat babies, dependent on fucking training wheels (dual-analog, mouse) to fire virtual weapons with any success. If their own breath and pulse will make it harder for them to tap a button, they're just going to cry more.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 30, 2010, 02:20:33 PM
Personally I would prefer to have the vitality sensor stuff optional in a Zelda title. It just doesn't seem like the best combination, in my opinion.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 30, 2010, 02:33:45 PM
It would be awesome to the max if the vitality sensor was just one component in each of the fingertips of a motion-sensing Power Glove.
Then you could play Metroid the way Samus does. And maybe Samus would sense the vitality in your pants.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 16, 2010, 12:44:30 AM
If the next Zelda game for the wii finally has voice actors here are some of my ideas for who should be the voice actor for Link:
Cam Clarke: The voice Kaneda in the 1989 dub of Akira and Leonardo in the 1987 TMNT show along with Liquid Snake of MGS fame to just name a few.
Ian James Corlett: The voice actor for Megaman in his animated show, the voice for Bob in Reboot and Goku in the ocean dub of DBZ.
James Arnold Taylor: The voice actor for Wooldor Sockbat from Drawn together and Tidus from FF 10.
Possibly a voice actor by the name of Rino Ramano who did the voice work for Spider-man in Spider-man: Unlimited tv series.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 16, 2010, 01:35:12 AM
Gilbert Gottfried
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 16, 2010, 01:06:59 PM
Metal Gear Solid is no longer a game franchise but a disgruntled Japanese man's fan fiction being gobbled up by stupid fan boys.
You know, when I read this post, I had completely forgotten what thread I was in, and my first reaction was "So is Zelda."
So yeah. So is Zelda. Also Mario. And Final Fantasy.
And if we're talking voice acting, they should get people nobody has ever heard of. I hate when people make suggestions as to who they should get for huge name things.
Do you really want Link sounding like Kaneda? I don't. I want him to sound totally unique. So ideally, they would get a voice actor for him and pay that guy enough money that he never needs to do anything else, so he is JUST the voice of Link.
However, I don't think Link will ever have a voice, even if they add voice acting to the rest of the game (which I firmly believe they should).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 16, 2010, 02:29:26 PM
Even with a voice, what's he going to say?
"... ... ..."
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThomasO on April 16, 2010, 03:10:38 PM
Link seems to go the same route Mario does-- mouth all dialogue, but retain the screams and grunts.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 16, 2010, 04:25:30 PM
Quote
And if we're talking voice acting, they should get people nobody has ever heard of.
Don't worry, they will. I'm sure the friends and family of Nintendo staff they use will be people you've never heard of. ;) Seriously though Nintendo's cheapness regarding that sort of stuff is why I don't want Zelda voice-acting. They won't pay to have it done well with good talent.
Though for Link's voice didn't someone already record the "yeah" voice he uses in all the games? Whoever that is I assume would be the ideal choice to play Link at least to be consistent. Though that person might be Japanese and not be able to act in English beyond "come on" in Wind Waker.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on April 16, 2010, 05:03:24 PM
Link seems to go the same route Mario does-- mouth all dialogue, but retain the screams and grunts.
Mario actually says things though like "Here we go!" and "See you next time." I think, officially, Link has only ever said "Come on," and I don't see that changing anytime soon, but, if it does, Nintendo should get Justin Bieber to voice Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThomasO on April 16, 2010, 05:08:08 PM
Mario actually says things though like "Here we go!" and "See you next time." I think, officially, Link has only ever said "Come on," and I don't see that changing anytime soon, but, if it does, Nintendo should get Justin Bieber to voice Link.
I was referring to the cutscenes, where there is actual dialogue (voice or text) rather than brief interjections. In Super Mario Sunshine and all the Paper Mario games, whenever Mario speaks to another character, his lips move but there is no speech (though the English version of SMS actually had Mario's lines edited out). In Twilight Princess, Link can be seen talking to other characters, like Ilia, but you can't hear anything there, either.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 16, 2010, 05:11:13 PM
Gottfried would be a good voice actor for eiither the mail man or Tingle. As for my list of voice actors, those are just some of the talent that wish could voice Link. There is no doubt(atleast in my mind) that any of these guys could do a good job. As for Link sounding like Kaneda, Cam Clarke also voice Liquid Snake and I loved that character. He would make a good voice actor for an adult Link. Corlett would and Romano would be good for a teenage Link and Taylor would be good for the Wind Waker Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on April 16, 2010, 06:04:26 PM
This is why Link shall never speak:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1obHjPav6NA
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on April 16, 2010, 06:43:56 PM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 16, 2010, 10:21:16 PM
Ok, well that's exactly my point, he never has any dialogue. So voice acting for him is just silly, which I point out every time this gets brought up. The only reason other characters communicate with him is to establish the setting and inform you where/what to go/do next (or sometimes for comedic reasons). If Link starts talking back, then it just becomes a movie...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 17, 2010, 12:35:41 AM
How would you guys feel if any of those voice actors were to do voice work for Link? I would like to see it happen. You know in the begining of Mad Max 3 where Max is wandering in the desert and he has some kind of cloak over his out fit and he wanders into Barter Town? I was wondering if some thing like that style could be adapted for LoZ.
Basically have Link as an adult wandering a desert searching for Navi with some kind of cloak covering his tatered green tunic and cap. This Link would have stuble. He wanders into a town fool of bandits becaues Epona has been stolen.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 17, 2010, 01:03:57 AM
How would you guys feel if any of those voice actors were to do voice work for Link? I would like to see it happen. You know in the begining of Mad Max 3 where Max is wandering in the desert and he has some kind of cloak over his out fit and he wanders into Barter Town? I was wondering if some thing like that style could be adapted for LoZ.
Basically have Link as an adult wandering a desert searching for Navi with some kind of cloak covering his tatered green tunic and cap. This Link would have stuble. He wanders into a town fool of bandits becaues Epona has been stolen.
Isn't that the beginning of the most recent HD Prince of Persia game, but with the character names swapped out for Zelda ones?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dasmos on April 17, 2010, 01:35:39 AM
How would you guys feel if any of those voice actors were to do voice work for Link? I would like to see it happen. You know in the begining of Mad Max 3 where Max is wandering in the desert and he has some kind of cloak over his out fit and he wanders into Barter Town? I was wondering if some thing like that style could be adapted for LoZ.
Basically have Link as an adult wandering a desert searching for Navi with some kind of cloak covering his tatered green tunic and cap. This Link would have stuble. He wanders into a town fool of bandits becaues Epona has been stolen.
Can we thread ban Kytim89? His awful Zelda ideas are giving me aids.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on April 17, 2010, 01:54:28 AM
Can't blame a guy for being a bit excited over a new Zelda game.
The mouth flapping in Twlight Princess distracted me. Do not do it again, Nintendo. Please.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 17, 2010, 10:50:06 AM
How would you guys feel if any of those voice actors were to do voice work for Link? I would like to see it happen. You know in the begining of Mad Max 3 where Max is wandering in the desert and he has some kind of cloak over his out fit and he wanders into Barter Town? I was wondering if some thing like that style could be adapted for LoZ.
Basically have Link as an adult wandering a desert searching for Navi with some kind of cloak covering his tatered green tunic and cap. This Link would have stuble. He wanders into a town fool of bandits becaues Epona has been stolen.
Can we thread ban Kytim89? His awful Zelda ideas are giving me aids.
Imagine Link battling a darknut or a darkhammer in a thunder dome like arena. That idea should get me banned from here for sure. ;D
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on April 17, 2010, 12:55:26 PM
I am researching more voice actors for the other recuring voice actors. Perhaps Patrick Stewart could voice the deku tree? ;D
Nah, Patrick Stewart could pull off Ganondorf. He has the voice for something like that and I thought his more 'evil' rolls have been pretty good in the past.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 18, 2010, 09:31:19 AM
yeah there was this one flash video made by this legendary frog guy, and Ganons voice was similar to PAtrick Stewarts, and i liked it :P
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on April 18, 2010, 02:36:53 PM
EasyCure that is probably the best idea I have heard for the vitality sensor.
Hmm do you have any ideas on horseback swordplay and the vitality sensor?
Thank you, and no no ideas that aren't very unique for that particular situation. (You know, like helping your aim)
Wait, that's a lie. If we stopped being stuck on the notion that Link only has one horse (an Epona) and instead there are wild mares throughout Hyrule Field that link can ride.. then that would open up the possability of having to tame one before being able to ride it properly (ie ride it steady enough to be able to use your weapons). Then again that's better suited for a game that isn't Zelda (something like Monster Hunter perhaps?). Then again... we don't know how different this Zelda game will be from others, so who knows if ideas like this will pan out.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 18, 2010, 08:09:47 PM
ever since Epona's introduction to Ocarina of Time, I always wanted a vast variety of animals to ride. Horses, Ostriches, Elephants, Camels, llamas, bovindae, Zebras, Sea Creatures, Dragons, Pegasi, Unicorns, Rhinos, Hippos, Giant boars
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on April 18, 2010, 09:05:28 PM
ever since Epona's introduction to Ocarina of Time, I always wanted a vast variety of animals to ride. Horses, Ostriches, Elephants, Camels, llamas, bovindae, Zebras, Sea Creatures, Dragons, Pegasi, Unicorns, Rhinos, Hippos, Giant boars
TP gave you your wish
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 18, 2010, 10:32:39 PM
EasyCure that is probably the best idea I have heard for the vitality sensor.
Hmm do you have any ideas on horseback swordplay and the vitality sensor?
Thank you, and no no ideas that aren't very unique for that particular situation. (You know, like helping your aim)
Wait, that's a lie. If we stopped being stuck on the notion that Link only has one horse (an Epona) and instead there are wild mares throughout Hyrule Field that link can ride.. then that would open up the possability of having to tame one before being able to ride it properly (ie ride it steady enough to be able to use your weapons). Then again that's better suited for a game that isn't Zelda (something like Monster Hunter perhaps?). Then again... we don't know how different this Zelda game will be from others, so who knows if ideas like this will pan out.
Hmm I like the idea. It would make Hyrule field seem less empty. Another idea that would make Hyrule field less empty would be to bring back the underground areas from OOT. Maybe put some buildings out there.Would that be to out of place?
Thinking over the past overworlds. Zelda 1 was pretty vast and exploratory with hidden secrets to find.Zelda 2 I am not really familar with it but it was vast and it was kinda linear as far as doing things in another way. Someone correct me on this if I am wrong. Zelda:Link to the Past was kinda small but it had lots of secrets in every screen.With the dual world dynamic it was doubled. OOT was pretty big and varied.There was I think less secrets to find then in LTTP. Majora's Mask was kinda small but I think that was because of the 3 Day game mechanic. Wind waker was vast but kinda empty. The only secrets that you could find was the rings of light and the different underground areas. Twilight Princess it was pretty big and there wasn't that many things to find as far as secrets. I think a Link to the past was a good way of compacting the world whild finding many things. Do you guys think that the recent Zelda overworlds were not really like past Zeldas? If so how would you fix it?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 18, 2010, 11:28:09 PM
grottos should actually be caves and stuff, not just random looney tune holes in the ground
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 19, 2010, 01:46:22 AM
What would be nice is if Nintendo included exploratory elements from such games as Fable 2 and the Assassins Creed series. I want more towns and cities to explore than the few that were shown in Twilight Princess. Throw in some huge boss battle that push the wii hard ware to its limts and makes Monster Hunter Tri pale in comparison. Replicate Albion onto Hyrule and make the place as expansive as possible. Waste no space at all.
I would not mind being able to customize Link's appearance like his clothing. Battle damage appearing on his out fit would be a plus and being able to add accessories would be good as well.
I would prefer to play as an adult Link. No more child or teen age Link, but a Link with maturity and attitude. Make the game play and story reflect Link's age and make him a respected warrior.
Instead of a cave of ordeals, let's have a colliseum or arena where Link battles very tough enemies for profit. The opponents become increasingly bigger and stronger as the matches go on.
As for transportation, riding Epona would be nice, but riding other animale would be cool. Let Link be able to hook these animals to wagon, where he can make money transporting good and items accros Hyrule.
Maybe Ganon could return, but he has been done to death. Nintendo should introduce a new villian with the same characteristics as Sephiroth.
The master sword should return, of course.
Introduce a mode of flying like airships or even better, a flying machine/ hang glider similar to the one in Assassin's Creed 2.
I can not stress this enough, bring back the Moblins. Those pig warriors were the best enemies. Of course they should be bigger and stronger and formidable warriors that kick Link's behind with little or no trouble. I imagine the battle ox from Yugioh as the basis for the moblins in this installment.
For some reason the final battle of TP where Link and Ganon sword reminds me of the final of Highlander. I could not help but think of Link saying, "There can be only one" as he did the final attack on Ganon.
This may be the longest post I have done on this forum so far.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 19, 2010, 03:42:07 AM
I think we had a conversation about flying vehicles in Zelda some pages back. Ideas like birds, pterodactyls and zeppelins were tossed about to my recollection.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 19, 2010, 03:52:11 AM
There was a Pegasis as well mentioned as well. Also I thought that something like the Tales of Symphonia transportation would work. Not the exact transport but something like you would be on foot for the first 3rd of the game than something like a land animal for the 2nd act then a flying animal in the 3rd act.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on April 19, 2010, 01:13:50 PM
Why Kytim why? TP tried many of those things, and yes some were enjoyable like the giant bosses. But again with the mature Link and a world that reflects it? I'm so sick of that. As much as I enjoyed TP some things were just too real, not enough whimsicle fantasy elements for me. I remember thinking to myself, if people built mines in a volcano it would look exactly like the one in TP.
Many looked down on sunshine because of water packs and the "real world" setting. Everyone ate up Galaxy becuase it was completely off the wall and as Ian would say "magical". Nintendo did what all us loser fans were crying about since WW, and all the realistic looking environments and epic boss fights still werent enough, and I think everyone(Nintendo and us) realized that.
Just let Miyamoto and Aonuma do what they want. I would love to see more things in the way of trains under water, and flip floping dungeons. My only true demand is to have flight by animal and not by machine.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 19, 2010, 01:20:57 PM
Catbuses and Totoros.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 19, 2010, 01:53:54 PM
Quote
Do you guys think that the recent Zelda overworlds were not really like past Zeldas? If so how would you fix it?
Prior to the Gamecube era I found that Zelda overworlds felt like they were of huge scope. In reality they weren't that big but they felt like they were pushing the hardware to the limits. It was like this was as big as they could go. With the Cube Zeldas it didn't feel like they were pushing the limits so much anymore. I've actually noticed this with Nintendo games in general. Nintendo used to push the hardware to the max, so you used to feel this sense of wonder of how far they could go if they didn't hit this wall. On the Cube they plateaued. It was like they found how far they wanted to go but we can see there is further they could go and they choose not to. How small everything is then becomes very apparent. Metroid Prime is the exception as I feel Retro pushed the limits so those games felt as big as they could be.
Wind Waker's big problem was that there was so little of anything. The ocean certainly had scope but each pocket of land felt very small and insignificant. Twilight Princess improved that except that it was the same damn place as Ocarina of Time. ARRRGH!!
What I figured would be the direction for Zelda, that they didn't do, was expand beyond Hyrule. Having an ocean is a good idea, if there are also large land areas to visit. I figured you would start somewhere about the size of the N64 Zelda worlds, and then you would set sail and visit other island and areas that are roughly the same size. The idea in the past seemed to be to provide the player with a world to explore, but that was limited by the hardware limitation and without those limits the world could become and feel bigger. Why couldn't they do what I'm suggesting here?
Zelda II actually had quite a scope because it had a RPG-esque overworld map where you covered a large distance and then entered specific areas. I think that wouldn't be a bad approach to create a bigger world with more races, more towns, more countries. With the last few Zeldas it's like here is THE town and THE lake and THE forest. Why can't there be more than one of these things? And these days you don't need an actual overworld map to create this scope. Wind Waker had the right idea in that an ocean can obscure the load times to create the illusion of one big world. This sort of scope, where it really feels like a big world, can be done now.
The problem is this sort of ambition seems like the sort of thing Nintendo now avoids. The casuals and non-gamers would not be on board for such an epic title and that would probably discourage Nintendo from doing it. They'll probably stick to something more TP size, and rely on Motion+ stuff to carry the game. I just hope they'll have a unique overworld where it doesn't feel like I've seen it before.
The best advice I would give them is to try to make a world - not just some window dressing to connect dungeon A to dungeon B. Think about what sort of place you would like to explore and go from there, instead of "well we need some water dungeon so we'll have some lake, and we'll need a castle for the last level..." Not being so rigid with the structure of dungeons would help a lot. I like the way Super Mario RPG did it where you had to find these seven stars but there wasn't any formal structure to it. You didn't know which areas had the stars, but in Zelda it's like "8 macguffins, 8 dungeons".
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 19, 2010, 02:14:50 PM
Link should meet a guy named Cid and have him join his quest to save Princess Zelda so that Link can travel across Hyrule upon Cid's airship.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 19, 2010, 02:26:33 PM
I think the negatives of the GC overworlds lie in the details. The ocean in WW was huge, but it was filled with relatively little. TP was OoT on steroids, but again there was a lot of empty space. ALttP and LA, on the other hand, had secrets in close to every screen, and despite the overworlds being small, they felt considerably more full. I've talked about it before, but I feel that this is what the overworld contributes to the sense of magic and charm. In those games it feels like every square of space has been specially designed, whereas the latest games are just giant empty spaces with a little charm sprinkled here and there. So instead of having them expand the scope of the world, I'd prefer them to fill it up first. This will make the world seem bigger. To illustrate, I don't measure the distance of the trip between the lake and kakariko by the time it takes to get between them, but by the number of things I pass on my way.
And like Ian says, it would be of benefit to stray from the formula. Where's the sense of exploration when you finally reach the lake, and already you know what's at the bottom?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on April 19, 2010, 06:04:43 PM
grottos should actually be caves and stuff, not just random looney tune holes in the ground
Like some of the interconnected caves in TP?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 19, 2010, 06:15:50 PM
Report to moderator
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 19, 2010, 07:43:16 PM
::) I have a very strong feeling that a lynch mob is forming for me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 19, 2010, 11:52:12 PM
TP did have some things that I liked, i was really happy getting on my Boar :P They didn't have the weapon pickup WW had, but they did have Boars! Its been a while since I played TP though, and i don't remember TP grottos so much, aside from an ice cavern. A tunnel system would be really cool. If the world was round it would be an awesome way to get to china besides boating :P
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 20, 2010, 12:17:08 AM
TP did have some things that I liked, i was really happy getting on my Boar :P: They didn't have the weapon pickup WW had, but they did have Boars! Its been a while since I played TP though, and i don't remember TP grottos so much, aside from an ice cavern. A tunnel system would be really cool. If the world was round it would be an awesome way to get to china besides boating :P:
The tunnels in Mario Sunshine always intrigued me and I wished they were bigger in scope. Having tunnels connecting different parts of Hyrule would be very interesting.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 20, 2010, 04:38:11 AM
What about those warps that were in OOT that could transport you to another part of Hyrule.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 20, 2010, 05:34:23 AM
those in OOT were good, but like a more Metroid approach of inter-connectivity would be awesome
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 20, 2010, 02:14:44 PM
Quote
I think the negatives of the GC overworlds lie in the details. The ocean in WW was huge, but it was filled with relatively little. TP was OoT on steroids, but again there was a lot of empty space. ALttP and LA, on the other hand, had secrets in close to every screen, and despite the overworlds being small, they felt considerably more full. I've talked about it before, but I feel that this is what the overworld contributes to the sense of magic and charm. In those games it feels like every square of space has been specially designed, whereas the latest games are just giant empty spaces with a little charm sprinkled here and there. So instead of having them expand the scope of the world, I'd prefer them to fill it up first. This will make the world seem bigger. To illustrate, I don't measure the distance of the trip between the lake and kakariko by the time it takes to get between them, but by the number of things I pass on my way.
I think this is a good point. But I also think having the amount of stuff in the 2D games would look weird in a 3D setting. In the 2D games you only see one screen at a time. If you could see the grid from Link's perspective and see all these things on the horizon, it would probably look very phony and contrived. But the amount of stuff is important. So when designing a new Zelda game they should make sure to have the same amount of stuff between points. So it instead of five squares to the next area it's 15 but I go by the same amount of stuff. So it still looks somewhat like something a real place would have but it has the same amount of roadside attractions.
The hub design is pretty lame too. Why do I need to have this central point that branches off everywhere? At least Wind Waker didn't have that. I understand it's more convenient for the player but it looks lame. If it's more like a big square and I have to cross this to get to that so what? That's how 2D Zelda did it. And they always have some quick teleport method anyway.
The 3D Zeldas are designed like an amusement park. But the 2D Zeldas are more like a city grid. I think the city grid is the better route to go.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 20, 2010, 05:25:33 PM
TP did have some things that I liked, i was really happy getting on my Boar :P: They didn't have the weapon pickup WW had, but they did have Boars! Its been a while since I played TP though, and i don't remember TP grottos so much, aside from an ice cavern. A tunnel system would be really cool. If the world was round it would be an awesome way to get to china besides boating :P:
The tunnels in Mario Sunshine always intrigued me and I wished they were bigger in scope. Having tunnels connecting different parts of Hyrule would be very interesting.
Kind of like the tunnel from the castle to sanctuary in ALttP? I like this idea, and I think it would be kind of cool to have a dungeon hidden underground, accessible from one of these secret tunnels.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 20, 2010, 06:28:42 PM
TP did have some things that I liked, i was really happy getting on my Boar :P: : They didn't have the weapon pickup WW had, but they did have Boars! Its been a while since I played TP though, and i don't remember TP grottos so much, aside from an ice cavern. A tunnel system would be really cool. If the world was round it would be an awesome way to get to china besides boating :P: :
The tunnels in Mario Sunshine always intrigued me and I wished they were bigger in scope. Having tunnels connecting different parts of Hyrule would be very interesting.
Kind of like the tunnel from the castle to sanctuary in ALttP? I like this idea, and I think it would be kind of cool to have a dungeon hidden underground, accessible from one of these secret tunnels.
Yeah. I hated how I couldn't figure out how to get back to that tunnel to get to the obvious secret wall with bombs later. I think I figured it out once but I don't remember.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on April 20, 2010, 07:42:55 PM
TP did have some things that I liked, i was really happy getting on my Boar :P: : They didn't have the weapon pickup WW had, but they did have Boars! Its been a while since I played TP though, and i don't remember TP grottos so much, aside from an ice cavern. A tunnel system would be really cool. If the world was round it would be an awesome way to get to china besides boating :P: :
The tunnels in Mario Sunshine always intrigued me and I wished they were bigger in scope. Having tunnels connecting different parts of Hyrule would be very interesting.
Kind of like the tunnel from the castle to sanctuary in ALttP? I like this idea, and I think it would be kind of cool to have a dungeon hidden underground, accessible from one of these secret tunnels.
Yeah. I hated how I couldn't figure out how to get back to that tunnel to get to the obvious secret wall with bombs later. I think I figured it out once but I don't remember.
You have to push a grave in the graveyard and discover a secret entrance that takes you back there. Makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on April 20, 2010, 08:04:59 PM
TP did have some things that I liked, i was really happy getting on my Boar :P They didn't have the weapon pickup WW had, but they did have Boars! Its been a while since I played TP though, and i don't remember TP grottos so much, aside from an ice cavern. A tunnel system would be really cool. If the world was round it would be an awesome way to get to china besides boating :P
the interconnected caves don't count?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 22, 2010, 12:29:16 PM
I know this video is for the early reveal of Twilight Princess, but it seems Nintendo left out a lot of this stuff for the gamecube and wii versions. I hope Zelda wii is atleast like what is portrayed in the video, on an aesthetical view point.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 22, 2010, 12:41:58 PM
That was awful.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on April 22, 2010, 02:00:24 PM
I know this video is for the early reveal of Twilight Princess, but it seems Nintendo left out a lot of this stuff for the gamecube and wii versions. I hope Zelda wii is atleast like what is portrayed in the video, on an aesthetical view point.
It's comments related to this that got us this Zelda in the first place. We don't need another one of these. And even if you think I don't speak for you, trust me brother I speak for you. You don't want that again. We wanted another Oot and boy did we get it.
I remember thinking how cool it was too see all those darker more "realistic" takes on the enemies and environments. Then during the game, I found out the whole blasted game was very dark(light wise) and shaded just like that footage. The sun didn't shine as bright and everything had huge shadow cast over it. Maybe its just me but I really appreciate a really bright sun shiny environment from time to time.
Now I'd like to see a cool blend of the realistic and abstract, with some dark and moody along with some bright and sun shiny.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 22, 2010, 07:29:32 PM
Quote
We wanted another Oot and boy did we get it.
No one wanted to visit the same areas as OoT again. That's Nintendo's huge ****-up. They interpretted "we don't like cartoon visuals, particularly when you showed us realistic ones first" as "make OoT over again". And that sameness is the complaint about TP, not the graphics. TP is gorgeous to look at, it just plays it too safe in terms of gameplay.
I think the biggest outrage regarding Wind Waker was that for years Nintendo had been called kiddy and the fans defended them. Then they took Zelda, which was on the best examples when arguing that Nintendo doesn't just make kids games, and made it look like a damn kids game after showing a very non-kiddy video first. You coudn't try harder to piss off your fanbase. And ever since then this has been the big issue with Zelda and TP turning out too generic just makes it worse. The thing is WW and TP both have major flaws in them that have nothing to do with graphics so the fanbase will remain divided. If one style or the other just nailed it with an undisputed masterpiece the issue would be solved - people would want the style the masterpiece used because they would (stupidly) associate the style with the gameplay.
We need another OoT in that we need another Zelda that has "greatest game of all time" talk surrounding it. The Zelda games released since the N64 are kind of like Super Mario Sunshine in that they're good but they're not "best ever" good. Zelda needs a Super Mario Galaxy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 22, 2010, 07:36:29 PM
Sorry but everybody on the internet at the time of the windwaker reveal said that that Nintendo should go back to OOT. As far as the split fanbase as far as graphics go. Both are acceptable styles.
As far as the Zelda series needing a Galaxy well I personally think that the 2 D games top it and I think that Zelda needs to go back to the roots of the franchise.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 22, 2010, 09:09:09 PM
This TP was just an OOt remake talk always annoys me, sure there were similar themed zones, but one should expect similar zones. Sonic and Mario follow the same format. It reminds me of people who hate OOt because its too much like alttp. Oot didnt have a Sky World, an Alien World, and its ice section was really limited. You couldn't turn into a Wolf. I had a damn good time playing TP, and I liked the fan service. That being said the only way to please you guys is to expand out of Hyrule, which really does seem to have a set geography. I'd like it if they built a huge round world with oceans and continents, maybe Hyrule could shrink in size. The problem with having too big a world is as it expands it becomes sparser in game design. The New Wii Zeda i think is probably going to go the Final Fantasy XIII route and you're all going to hate it. I'll reserve my predictions until I see it at e3. Hehe Caterkiller, adjust the brightness and saturation on your TV!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on April 22, 2010, 09:49:07 PM
Bravo theperm, I also loved TP. If it were a little more difficult (especially the bosses) it would have had a more sustainable impact on me. I get the criticism against it, but let's not fool ourselves, TP was a fantastic game. I enjoyed playing as a wolf, it felt different than being a person and different than riding a horse. I was wowed when I got the iron boots so early in the game and then got magnetized to the ceiling. I didn't see the ball and chain or the spinner coming in by a long shot. That doesn't mean that I think the game is perfect, but I had a damn good time playing it.
What I want more than anything is more opportunities to use the items you get. The 2D games are much better at this. I am tired of items becoming essentially useless once you defeat the boss of the dungeon they are in. It seems like only the usual zelda items (bow, bombs and hookshot) get to be used more than in their own dungeon and a few isolated instances in the overworld. By the end of the game you usually have more than 10 items you can use, I want to see bosses and puzzles in the later dungeons that make me use these items in interesting combinations.
I also think that part of the problem comes from the story. Nothing is ever going to be more fundamental to the zelda mythos as OoT. Wind Waker was probably the best that Nintendo could have done to follow it up from that standpoint.
I get where you guys come from when you say we don't want another OoT, but I think that you are misinformed about what old OoT fans want. I have a couple friends who are these people. Haven't played a zelda since OoT and have been waiting for zelda to be "cool like OoT was" again. MM was stupid because there was a time limit and you had to play as a stupid tree kid. WW was gay because it was a cartoon. TP was stupid because "I don't want to play as some gay wolf." These are the same people who buy one cloned FPS after another and the reason I don't care and don't want nintendo to care about what makes Zelda popular. Instead be more concerned with what makes a GOOD zelda game and let that find an audience (because it will). As far as I'm concerned, we can leave those type of fans behind.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 22, 2010, 11:29:06 PM
speaking of item use, ill alert people on my game idea, because im not sure if ill be going into the game industry or not
anyways its my idea called Rival
its just like Zelda except there are redundant dungeons, meaning there are items that have essentially the same function(for getting into dungeons..maybe with more then one function to keep them different), but because your given no particular order on which dungeons to go to then it becomes even more non-linear. The deal is though there is another character, your Rival who is also going through the dungeons independently of you. Its possible that your rival may get items and block you from getting further in the game, at which point your going to have to get really clever and figure out a way to ambush him. Defeating him means he drops the weapon you need for the next level. Kinda like Ash and Gary, but revved up 10 notches.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 23, 2010, 01:11:04 AM
Nintendo has a unique way of reinventing the wheel when it comes to their franchises. Although the games may seem like a rehash, they always bring something new and unique to the table. Something that Nintendo can capitalize on for the next game. I can certainly see the point that TP is a rehash of OoT, but both games have such a quality to them that seem like they have almost nothing in regards to rehashing. Play both games consecutive and they seem worlds apart, at least to me that is.
One I want above all else for what ever the new game had in store is bigger, more massive boss battles. I want the biggest and baddest enemies to ever grace a Nintendo console. I want the bosses to be as epic as possible. Basically nothing that we have seen from past iterations of the series.
I may get chased out of this forum for saying this but I am going to do it any way. I think Nintendo will borrow elements from such HD as God of War 3, Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Fable 2, Final Fantasy 13, and possibly Gears of War. I would like to hear from all of about what these elements actually are and then debate them.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 23, 2010, 01:33:18 AM
Nintendo has a unique way of reinventing the wheel when it comes to their franchises. Although the games may seem like a rehash, they always bring something new and unique to the table. Something that Nintendo can capitalize on for the next game. I can certainly see the point that TP is a rehash of OoT, but both games have such a quality to them that seem like they have almost nothing in regards to rehashing. Play both games consecutive and they seem worlds apart, at least to me that is.
One I want above all else for what ever the new game had in store is bigger, more massive boss battles. I want the biggest and baddest enemies to ever grace a Nintendo console. I want the bosses to be as epic as possible. Basically nothing that we have seen from past iterations of the series.
I may get chased out of this forum for saying this but I am going to do it any way. I think Nintendo will borrow elements from such HD as God of War 3, Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Fable 2, Final Fantasy 13, and possibly Gears of War. I would like to hear from all of about what these elements actually are and then debate them.
You know Kytim I agree with your point about Nintendo adding things to the series each instalment. They do that. I think possibly the question I would ask you is are they good additions?
Your second point I am going to say that Twilight Princess had epic boss battles.There was a urgentcy to them and they were grand.Windwaker had this as well.
As for your last point I haven't played any of those games so I need to know what exactly you would add to Zelda from those games?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on April 23, 2010, 02:02:12 AM
I'll say it again just in case I came across too negative, but I did enjoy TP, I really really did. I guess I just have child like tastes and 2 key things I love were not met. 1 - Its not so bad, but I thought there were too many dark and gritty environments compared to the sunshiny ones. Not a big deal I know, but something about the brightness of Zora's domain and the way the sun shined in OoT will stick with me forever.
2nd thing that I complained about since the game released was the tunes in the game. There were not enough happy go lucky themes, or awesome themes like the over world. I felt Nintendo tried to get too moody into it and no songs were allowed to have a full on melody. Actually I know nothing about how music is structured but what I mean to say is the music never ever takes off. Example 1: the goron city outside the volcano. It starts off really awesome but never takes off like first song did, it keeps repeating that same little beat over and over. 2: The last castle that played the Zelda 2 music. Again you can here the awesomeness of the classic song but then it never takes off, it stays at that same little opening beat the whole way through.
The best song in the game was the boat and shooting arrow bombs mini game music. A tune you can hum later on.
WW had music that I will never forget, each town that actually meant something had music that I love to listen to on a regular basis. Wish there was more like that in TP.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 23, 2010, 02:02:25 AM
Nintendo has a unique way of reinventing the wheel when it comes to their franchises. Although the games may seem like a rehash, they always bring something new and unique to the table. Something that Nintendo can capitalize on for the next game. I can certainly see the point that TP is a rehash of OoT, but both games have such a quality to them that seem like they have almost nothing in regards to rehashing. Play both games consecutive and they seem worlds apart, at least to me that is.
One I want above all else for what ever the new game had in store is bigger, more massive boss battles. I want the biggest and baddest enemies to ever grace a Nintendo console. I want the bosses to be as epic as possible. Basically nothing that we have seen from past iterations of the series.
I may get chased out of this forum for saying this but I am going to do it any way. I think Nintendo will borrow elements from such HD as God of War 3, Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Fable 2, Final Fantasy 13, and possibly Gears of War. I would like to hear from all of about what these elements actually are and then debate them.
You know Kytim I agree with your point about Nintendo adding things to the series each instalment. They do that. I think possibly the question I would ask you is are they good additions?
Your second point I am going to say that Twilight Princess had epic boss battles.There was a urgentcy to them and they were grand.Windwaker had this as well.
As for your last point I haven't played any of those games so I need to know what exactly you would add to Zelda from those games?
The Twilight Princess bosses were with out a doubt massive, but they left me feeling as if they could have been more massive. The sky dragon towards the end was very good.
As for whether the additions to each installment are good or not is a double answer. It seems like Nintendo should have had the forsight to make the TP over world much grander. However, if there is a lot of wasted space in the next game, then they have not brought any thing new to the table. Basically Nintendo is allowed to rehash old stuff on the strict basis that they bring new stuff and a fresh perspective. This fresh perspective is the reason why the art style for each game is different from each other(ie WW vs TP).
I have never played those game either, but from what I have heared and seen from youtube they are very massive and epic. I want Nintendo to take the sheer style of those games and blend them with the new Zelda. Of course this may sound stupid because the wii is an inferior system with no hope of challenging these games on their own ground. However, I do not know of a proper way to get my point accross with out falling back to that problem. Give me a few days to think and I will return with some idea after I research these games.
Laslty, I have a very strong feeling in my bones that this game will symbolize the next evolutionary step in gaming in regards to how the palyer and the game interact much in the same way as 3D. Perhaps my expectations are too high, but I feel as though this game may be so massive that Nintendo will not be able to surpass it in quality for a very long time.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 23, 2010, 12:23:10 PM
Quote
This TP was just an OOt remake talk always annoys me, sure there were similar themed zones, but one should expect similar zones.
Did you play the Wii or the Cube version? The Cube version has the unflipped map and the areas are in the exact same place as they are in OoT except that Zora's Domain and Laky Hylia are switched. So once I figured the pattern I looked at my incomplete map and said "well Death Mountain will be here and the desert will be here" and I guessed the rest of the world aside from the water bodies switching. That was really lame and really hurt the sense of exploration that Zelda typically has. Hyrule is in LttP as well but Oot's map isn't the exact same thing. It has a few similarities but that's it. Hell, there were no Gorons or Gerudos in previous Zeldas.
The thing is Nintendo has never really gotten Hyrule "standarized". It changes too much in each game. But with TP it was by far the closest it ever had been to the Hyrule of a different game. I just got used to them using the same name and few landmarks like Death Mountain and otherwise doing whatever, but they didn't do it that time. Overall I thought TP was awesome and I think it's better than Wind Waker. But that similar world map REALLY hurt the game for me. And it appears I'm not alone in thinking that.
If you can guess the game before it happens then they need to stray a bit from the pattern.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 23, 2010, 12:32:13 PM
I think that the reason that Hyrule changes so often is that each game is like 100s of years after the previous ones. Worlds change over time. Things move around. As far as Gorons and Gurudos not being in the 2D games I think it has to do with the technology at the time of the NES and SNES.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 23, 2010, 01:37:41 PM
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As far as Gorons and Gurudos not being in the 2D games I think it has to do with the technology at the time of the NES and SNES.
So Nintendo thought of these rock guys for the previous games but just couldn't do it until the N64? I think it's more likely they didn't come up with the idea until OoT. And the Gerudos aren't an idea that needs any extra horsepower anyway.
I think with any franchise there will be a period where new ideas are being introduced all the time as the series tries to establish an identity. The problem comes once the identity is established so it becomes more about following a formula. Zelda started to get stale once we could say "this is Zelda". That's what TP is. It's a Zelda game made after the formula was set and adheres to it. I think it requires a conscious effort from a developer to not allow this to happen and to keep the flow of new ideas.
You run the risk of the new ideas not clicking with the fans of course but that's just the way it is. To create a truly special Zelda game I think you have to strip Zelda back and determine what you need to keep and what can change. You don't need a village named Karkariko or for Link to get a hookshot. Those are details. What you need is a hero named Link who goes an adventure and the place is one connected world and all combat and action is done in realtime. That's what Zelda is, not Triforces and Zoras. I'm not saying to rip all those details out, but never feel that they HAVE to be there.
Nintendo wasn't afraid to change things up with Wind Waker so I give them credit for that. I just didn't like the specific changes they made with the graphic bait-and-switch and the big blue ocean of nothing. That's the risk you take but don't be afraid to try to take that risk again.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on April 23, 2010, 01:51:30 PM
As far as the Zelda series needing a Galaxy well I personally think that the 2 D games top it and I think that Zelda needs to go back to the roots of the franchise.
Perhaps a synthesis of old and new
Perhaps Zelda: Other Z
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 23, 2010, 01:56:15 PM
As far as the Zelda series needing a Galaxy well I personally think that the 2 D games top it and I think that Zelda needs to go back to the roots of the franchise.
Perhaps a synthesis of old and new
Perhaps Zelda: Other Z
Like the idea but the excution has to be good.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 23, 2010, 05:23:41 PM
n previous games gorons and zoras were enemies
I played TP on Wii, so the world didn't seem too much the same, it seemed more like it was referencing the games than rehashing
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 23, 2010, 06:31:11 PM
This TP was just an OOt remake talk always annoys me, sure there were similar themed zones, but one should expect similar zones.
Did you play the Wii or the Cube version? The Cube version has the unflipped map and the areas are in the exact same place as they are in OoT except that Zora's Domain and Laky Hylia are switched. So once I figured the pattern I looked at my incomplete map and said "well Death Mountain will be here and the desert will be here" and I guessed the rest of the world aside from the water bodies switching. That was really lame and really hurt the sense of exploration that Zelda typically has. Hyrule is in LttP as well but Oot's map isn't the exact same thing. It has a few similarities but that's it. Hell, there were no Gorons or Gerudos in previous Zeldas.
The thing is Nintendo has never really gotten Hyrule "standarized". It changes too much in each game. But with TP it was by far the closest it ever had been to the Hyrule of a different game. I just got used to them using the same name and few landmarks like Death Mountain and otherwise doing whatever, but they didn't do it that time. Overall I thought TP was awesome and I think it's better than Wind Waker. But that similar world map REALLY hurt the game for me. And it appears I'm not alone in thinking that.
If you can guess the game before it happens then they need to stray a bit from the pattern.
Just because the area's are located in the same spots on the map doesn't make it the same when the said area's are 100% different from their Ocarina of Time counterparts. The point of exploration in Zelda games is to explore what's in the actual area's themselves, not to freak out over where they are on a map.
Had Nintendo actually reused the designs of each area as well as what is in each one, then you'd have a good point. But they didn't and each area is vastly different from what they were in OOT. To call TP a rehash of OOT just because of what's on the maps is just plain nitpicking for something to complain about.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 23, 2010, 07:26:18 PM
Quote
Just because the area's are located in the same spots on the map doesn't make it the same when the said area's are 100% different from their Ocarina of Time counterparts. The point of exploration in Zelda games is to explore what's in the actual area's themselves, not to freak out over where they are on a map.
They're not 100% different. They're like 50% different. I go to where a village is in OoT and there's a village there in TP. I go to where a mountain with Gorons living in it are in OoT and there's a mountain with Gorons living there in TP. That took a huge amount of the thrill of exploration away from me. To me it's like Punch-Out. Yeah the guys with the same appearance and name of the NES guys use a different pattern in the Wii version. But it's still only ONE new character and that just comes across as really lazy.
The thing is Nintendo could have made completely different areas in the game. They did that with Majora's Mask, they did that with Wind Waker and even Ocarina of Time's Hyrule was quite different from A Link to the Past's. TP's world reaked of lazy design, like Nintendo figured they could reuse the same locales and chop some time off of the design phase. I'm not going to tolerate cutting corners like that. Even cookie-cutter sequels can say they technically have different levels but I don't consider that good enough. This is ZELDA and that name brings with it the highest standards.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on April 23, 2010, 07:48:41 PM
Honestly, Nintendo's been remaking Zelda since Link to the Past. Wind Waker was the biggest change-up, but the backlash was so severe (at the time) that I think they backpeddled way too far. They are EXTREMELY conservative about the series, especially game flow, even in Wind Waker. Moreso than Mario. I'd also offer up Metroid as the one Nintendo series you could point to against Nintendo's "kiddie" image.
As for content in Zelda Wii, I'm still going with my hope that you are a non-Link character in the game, and you see that hero from afar. Your quests are on parallel paths, and only towards the end of the game do your goals become unified. That kind of a story--if you do it right--could carry real emotional and mythological WEIGHT.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 23, 2010, 11:57:09 PM
For some reason when I watch the first five minutes of Mad Max 3 I get this stron feeling of Legend of Zelda for reason. I just like the idea of an adult Link wandering a desert draped in a black cloak covering his tunic with his sword handle sticking out of the back wandering into a town or city looking for Navie or some one else.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 24, 2010, 02:12:32 AM
For some reason when I watch the first five minutes of Mad Max 3 I get this stron feeling of Legend of Zelda for reason. I just like the idea of an adult Link wandering a desert draped in a black cloak covering his tunic with his sword handle sticking out of the back wandering into a town or city looking for Navie or some one else.
I'm sorry but this reeks of style over substance.
And regards to your earlier post about having a feeling about this game being so evolutionary, I have a feeling that you're going to be terribly disappointed. Let's face it, it's pretty much the same team making it, that made the last game. Where's the innovation going to come from. At best, I think they can achieve a TP that isn't as formulaic. But they aren't going to make the game of the decade.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 24, 2010, 03:22:07 AM
mad max revival is a big fad of collective knowledge
for some reason i get into mad max...everyone does!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 24, 2010, 04:49:26 AM
Let's face it, it's pretty much the same team making it, that made the last game. Where's the innovation going to come from.
That is some of the worst logic I've ever heard. So because a team made a game one way, they're incapable of making it a different way? By that logic the Zelda series should have never existed in the first place since Miyamoto and Tezuka should have been incapable of doing something other then Mario games. Not to mention that it isn't exactly the same team that made the last one since Nintendo is always adding new people to all their development studio's as well as promoting people into higher level positions.
Hell, Majora's Mask was the result of Eiji Aonuma and Yoshiaki Koizumi being promoted and allowed to bring new idea's to the table. For all we know, Nintendo could have promoted several people who worked on Twilight Princess into higher positions where they can now bring new idea's to the franchise as well.
So in other words, there's many places for innovation to come from.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 24, 2010, 04:59:54 AM
the thing i worry about though is top down stiflement...it sounds like the guys on the bottom have lots of ideas, but Miyamoto tends to keep his pimp hand strong when it comes to his baby.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 24, 2010, 01:13:58 PM
Let's face it, it's pretty much the same team making it, that made the last game. Where's the innovation going to come from.
That is some of the worst logic I've ever heard. So because a team made a game one way, they're incapable of making it a different way? By that logic the Zelda series should have never existed in the first place since Miyamoto and Tezuka should have been incapable of doing something other then Mario games. Not to mention that it isn't exactly the same team that made the last one since Nintendo is always adding new people to all their development studio's as well as promoting people into higher level positions.
Hell, Majora's Mask was the result of Eiji Aonuma and Yoshiaki Koizumi being promoted and allowed to bring new idea's to the table. For all we know, Nintendo could have promoted several people who worked on Twilight Princess into higher positions where they can now bring new idea's to the franchise as well.
So in other words, there's many places for innovation to come from.
Well my opinion is that Aonuma's still in charge, and he determines the direction of the game. I'm not saying the game can't evolve, in fact it should because the team got experience with WW and TP. But old dogs don't suddenly start making revolutionary products (unless they're Miyamoto, who consistently brings revolutionary ideas).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 24, 2010, 04:07:27 PM
Well my opinion is that Aonuma's still in charge, and he determines the direction of the game. I'm not saying the game can't evolve, in fact it should because the team got experience with WW and TP. But old dogs don't suddenly start making revolutionary products (unless they're Miyamoto, who consistently brings revolutionary ideas).
Sounds like you got your people messed up. Aonuma's the one who's been trying to do new things with Zelda for years now, while Miyamoto has been the one holding it down. Twilight Princess in particular would have ended up differently had Aonuma been allowed to do exactly what he wanted. Instead when development got behind, Miyamoto took over the project and had Aonuma make the game the way Miyamoto wanted it.
Now had Aonuma managed the development team better in it's first year Miyamoto wouldn't have gotten angry and taken over the project, so he does share the blame. But to act like Aonuma is the one holding the series back because of Twilight Princess is rather wrong considering Miyamoto is the one who ended up determining what direction Twilight Princess ultimately took.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 24, 2010, 04:29:06 PM
So they OoT'd it to get it out the door sooner.
I can't blame Miyamoto for that since Aonuma was the one that couldn't get his vision together in the time frame allowed (It might now have been a Wii launch title if he did).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 24, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
It's not like Aonuma has only had the one chance to prove himself with TP. It can be said that Miyamoto tied his hands with TP, but when Aonuma's creativity wasn't producing a real game, it had to be done. Not to say that his games are bad - TP, WW, ST are all solid games. But my original comment was about the new game being 'revolutionary', and let's be honest, nobody described those past games as "the next OoT". (I mean this in the sense of being ahead of it's time, not a tribute or remake of OoT)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 24, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
They don't measure up to Majora's Mask, that's for sure.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 24, 2010, 06:47:39 PM
In terms of crap, correct. Majora's Mask is a terrible game, easily the worst 3D Zelda and maybe the worst non-CDi Zelda. If MM is what Aonuma does on his own, then I don't ever want him getting complete control again. I'm still baffled as to why the staff here selected MM over TWW for Game of the Decade.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 24, 2010, 06:49:51 PM
In terms of crap, correct. Majora's Mask is a terrible game, easily the worst 3D Zelda and maybe the worst non-CDi Zelda. If MM is what Aonuma does on his own, then I don't ever want him getting complete control again. I'm still baffled as to why the staff here selected MM over TWW for Game of the Decade.
Joke Post of the Day?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 24, 2010, 07:24:50 PM
No, why would I make the truth a joke? I don't see how anybody can say with a straight face that it's a great game. It's not the greatest game of all time, it's not the greatest game of the decade, it's not the greatest Zelda game, it's not even the greatest game of 2000. Just about every thing the game does is done better in the other Zelda games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on April 24, 2010, 07:28:02 PM
No, why would I make the truth a joke? I don't see how anybody can say with a straight face that it's a great game. It's not the greatest game of all time, it's not the greatest game of the decade, it's not the greatest Zelda game, it's not even the greatest game of 2000. Just about every thing the game does is done better in the other Zelda games.
I'd heard the legends that such a person existed in this world, but I refused to believe them...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 24, 2010, 08:00:12 PM
Unless Nintendo comes up with a way to make the next Zelda game revolutionize the industry it will suffer the same fate as the Star Fox series. Second, although Miyamoto may not be involved directly, he is probably surpervising this game more than any other up to this point.
As for having high hopes for the new game, would you it is kind of cynical to not have some kind of hope for this game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 24, 2010, 10:15:19 PM
No, why would I make the truth a joke? I don't see how anybody can say with a straight face that it's a great game. It's not the greatest game of all time, it's not the greatest game of the decade, it's not the greatest Zelda game, it's not even the greatest game of 2000. Just about every thing the game does is done better in the other Zelda games.
QFT
I thought out of all the Zelda games Majora's Mask was the most innovative, i mean the time system was what allowed us to get really involved with all the characters. We got to get to know Kafei and Anju, there were all sorts of intricacies that i miss in newer zelda games. The only thing in Zelda that reminded me of its greatness was the camera quest in Wind Waker :P with gay love letters :P
I'd heard the legends that such a person existed in this world, but I refused to believe them...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 24, 2010, 10:33:23 PM
Unless Nintendo comes up with a way to make the next Zelda game revolutionize the industry it will suffer the same fate as the Star Fox series.
StarFox was never a system seller, it was more of a solid complimentary title. You'll never see a Star Fox nominated for game of the year, no matter how solid it is. Zelda is just measured on a different scale altogether. The day they stop making Zelda is the day they give up on their traditional audience.
Quote
Second, although Miyamoto may not be involved directly, he is probably surpervising this game more than any other up to this point.
You have no way of knowing this (and if you do, please share). I can't imagine him being more involved in this game than in MM or WW when Aonuma was unproven.
Quote
As for having high hopes for the new game, would you it is kind of cynical to not have some kind of hope for this game.
It's not that I don't have hopes, just my hopes are realistic.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on April 25, 2010, 01:11:33 AM
No, why would I make the truth a joke? I don't see how anybody can say with a straight face that it's a great game. It's not the greatest game of all time, it's not the greatest game of the decade, it's not the greatest Zelda game, it's not even the greatest game of 2000. Just about every thing the game does is done better in the other Zelda games.
I'm confused if this is borderline trolling or not... in what aspects of Majora's Mask, also known as the best game of all time, do you base this odd and contradicting opinion? Side-quests alone make MM superior, what Zelda game does side-quests better?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on April 25, 2010, 02:24:41 AM
I don't see how anybody can say with a straight face that Majora's Mask is not a great game, but to each his own. Personally, there isn't a single thing Spirit Tracks did better than any Zelda game. I was driven to finish MM whereas ST was the first Zelda game I didn't give a sh*t about completing.
And honestly, there's no way to rightly bestow the title of "greatest" anything to anything because the entire endeavor is subjective. For example, I wouldn't say MM is the greatest game of say, 2000 because I think Final Fantasy IX sh*ts all over Majora's Mask, but there are plenty of people who detest FFIX.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on April 25, 2010, 04:52:04 AM
Spirit Tracks did trains better than any other Zelda game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 25, 2010, 05:58:23 AM
Spirit Tracks did trains better than any other Zelda game.
You're saying since it wasn't done in previous Zelda games it was a good addition to the series, correct?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 25, 2010, 06:00:50 AM
no he's just being snarky
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 25, 2010, 08:33:38 AM
Truthfully the most innovative Legend of Zelda was Link to the Past.
Majora's Mask was good, but about 50% of the game was gimmick and side quests. Yes, they were fun side quests, but it did not feel like a complete package. And it is not nearly as good as people remember it or desire it. I think people really enjoyed the atmosphere of that Zelda game and felt it was darker but with the same Zelda charm.
As an overall experience I believe Twilight Princess is every bit as good as Majora's Mask, but no where near as complete of an experience as Ocarina of Time, although it did do some things better. (I felt Twilight Princess had a much better pacing, pushing you through the first 1/4 of the game until you have a good amount of story and items and then opening the world for you to explore. )
But Link to the Past introduced the more complex puzzles, changing world (light/dark) interactive environments and puzzles...and basically is still today the standard Zelda falls back on...it is the most playable and innovative Zelda game.
I also don't feel Zelda has any threat of becoming like Star Fox. Star Fox is a niche shooter brand that has tried several attempts to branch into different styles of games to give it more appeal, but in the process hurt the overall feel and appeal the originals had. Zelda is not a niche title and as it expands it is not doing so to try to appeal to a wider audience, but just continue to provide the engaging experiences that people have come to expect from Zelda...but the truth is, everyone gets a little happy and joy when they begin to play a new Zelda adventure....just like the same joy people get from starting a new Mario adventure.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on April 25, 2010, 12:31:55 PM
Again, it's subjective. You can't tell me Majora's Mask is not as good as I remember it or desire it because, guess what? You're not me.
To me, A Link to the Past wipes the floor with almost every videogame ever made, save Super Metroid. Hence, no Zelda game ever came remotely close to recapturing the feeling I had when playing that game. Majora's Mask had the benefit of coming out after Ocarina of Time when the 3D Zelda concept felt fresh. If Majora's Mask came out today, I think I'd have less tolerance for it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on April 25, 2010, 12:55:08 PM
Majora's Mask side-quests were there to get you to interact with the characters, which was Koizumi's goal with the game.
Besides, the game didn't have a long development time span. I think it was almost the same length as Wind Waker.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on April 25, 2010, 01:53:24 PM
Majora's Mask side-quests were there to get you to interact with the characters, which was Koizumi's goal with the game.
Besides, the game didn't have a long development time span. I think it was almost the same length as Wind Waker.
I think it was even shorter. Which makes the game even more amazing, to put such quality game in such a short time.
Majora's Mask is such a weird game, which is why I appreciate so much, I doubt we'll ever get a game like this, from Nintendo or any other developer.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 25, 2010, 02:48:55 PM
Well if we're dusting off the old "it's subjective, so I'm allowed to hate this popular game and you can't tell me I'm wrong" bit, I'd like to declare that I can't stand A Link to the Past and I think it's awful.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 25, 2010, 03:32:06 PM
Well if we're dusting off the old "it's subjective, so I'm allowed to hate this popular game and you can't tell me I'm wrong" bit, I'd like to declare that I can't stand A Link to the Past and I think it's awful.
You hated Link to the Past and Super Mario World? Did a Super NES kill your cat or something when you were little? ;)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 25, 2010, 06:26:05 PM
back to twilight princess debate ugh..if you had never played ocarina of time or oot had never been released your opinion would be totally different. To some people Twilight Princess was their first zelda game(like OOt was mine) and you have to think outside your own perception to really rate a game. That being said i'm on Insanolord's boat. I have never been able to get into alttp...its a great game i'm sure, but it would have been better to play it when it was new. That being said I wonder if there is a point when I won't be able to enjoy a new Zelda. It seems to work both ways. Scientist have determined that people brains develop towards music and as time goes on its harder to listen to new music, people get stuck in an era or a genre. I think video games may be the same way.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 25, 2010, 06:28:03 PM
back to twilight princess debate ugh..if you had never played ocarina of time or oot had never been released your opinion would be totally different. To some people Twilight Princess was their first zelda game(like OOt was mine) and you have to think outside your own perception to really rate a game. That being said i'm on Insanolord's boat. I have never been able to get into alttp...its a great game i'm sure, but it would have been better to play it when it was new. That being said I wonder if there is a point when I won't be able to enjoy a new Zelda. It seems to work both ways. Scientist have determined that people brains develop towards music and as time goes on its harder to listen to new music, people get stuck in an era or a genre. I think video games may be the same way.
That's funny because my tastes in music have gotten broader and broader over time.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 25, 2010, 06:38:58 PM
Majora's Mask side-quests were there to get you to interact with the characters, which was Koizumi's goal with the game.
Besides, the game didn't have a long development time span. I think it was almost the same length as Wind Waker.
I think it was even shorter. Which makes the game even more amazing, to put such quality game in such a short time.
Majora's Mask is such a weird game, which is why I appreciate so much, I doubt we'll ever get a game like this, from Nintendo or any other developer.
I'd say it had MORE gameplay than either Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. Both of those felt long due to the vast amount of EMPTY SPACE you had to trek through, meaning there was a lot of time wasted for every step you took. In MM, there was plenty to do in so few seconds of travel no matter what direction you walked in. It also has the most efficient transportation system in the entire series, ensuring you didn't wait long before finding something worthwhile to do: standard teleports; standard worthless horse; high-speed Goron rolling on land; swift Zora swimming thru water instead of taking forever to get across any version of Lake Hylia; and the Bunny Hood which allowed you to generously move fast over standard surfaces while STILL retaining the conventional abilities of Link that no Horse, Boat, Wolf, nor Train can provide.
MM also maintained the equivalent of 8 LONG dungeons. 4 Primary dungeons plus the quests (which thoroughly tested your secondary abilities you acquired) required to gain entrance into each. Looking at a base duration of 3 hours (Slow Song of Time) for each dungeon/quest phase, that's at least 24 hours of gameplay by a skilled player -- the general concensus I gather is that MM's main dungeons were, on average, the longest and most difficult group of dungeons among the 3D Zeldas, so people are likely to spend more than 3 hours on it.
Ocarina of Time took me between 3 to 5 hours to beat a dungeon and clear all its treasures the first time through (it was 1998 launch period, I was 17, senior in high school, and this scope of 3D was still new to me and all of us). I beat MM's dungeon's within the 3 hour Song of Time AND found all the weird fairies in addition to the standard treasures. Time well spent. Wind Waker was short of a "real" dungeon, replaced by some half-assed "escape quest" in the beginning. TP has that insanely linearly Twilight Dungeon (I got to the goddamn "Twilight Realm," and this is the best they could come up with? Miyamoto must've laid the smack down to get this game done in time for Casual Gamers), an escape quest, and a handful of silly cinematic action sequences to make Link's adventure seem "cool" (and you knew what these were: an attempt to mask the empty space that makes up Hyrule Field, that you would suffer going back and forth through anyway later) and make up for the fact that Link can't inject much excitement into the MATURE ZELDA becuz he has no voice acting. /voice acting troll
Oh, and the completion time. Both WW and TP dungeons typically took me TWO HOURS TO CLEAR AND FIND EVERYTHING. LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME rush job. You can tell Nintendo was running out of dungeon design ideas in WW and TP because every other dungeon was another fucking CYLINDRICAL TOWER. "Oh, where have I seen this before?" "Oh, I guess they want me to do this and this, and that will show me the boss door for sure" At least MM provided 2 of those (before making them stale on Nintendo GAMECUBE) and made you travel in ways you didn't anticipate; c'mon, we don't need another DEKU TREE.
MM was also the last 3D console Zelda to have LEGITIMATE SECRETS. None of the "map that leads to a chest that leads to ANOTHER MAP" bullshit found in Wind Waker. And none of the "Fifth Heart Piece" bullshit and "Heart Piece in an ARBITRARY DUNGEON TREASURE CHEST" bullshit found in TP. MM had only 4 primary bosses and thus 4 complete Hearts to give away -- meaning there were plenty of plain Heart-quarters to find, and they involved reasonable (to amazing) efforts to acquire.
Then ON TOP OF ALL THAT, we had the awesome sidequests people love talking about, bringing substance to the NPCs and their world that we haven't seen in Zelda since.
By the time I encountered the final boss, I had all the hearts, all the masks, all the ____ , the Oni Link Mask, and ~50 hours clocked in. That was time well spent. MM was a game for experienced Ocarina players.
and unlike TP's final boss, Majora wasn't a pushover. and unlike WW in general, MM's enemies and bosses did real damage.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 25, 2010, 07:04:47 PM
you think you would have completed the dungeons so fast if you hadn't already played so many Zelda games? MM did have exceptional dungeon design though. The bosses wee cooler too.
Also, i had all the masks before i decided to fight pushover Majora :P
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on April 25, 2010, 07:20:40 PM
Well if we're dusting off the old "it's subjective, so I'm allowed to hate this popular game and you can't tell me I'm wrong" bit, I'd like to declare that I can't stand A Link to the Past and I think it's awful.
Awesome? That's kind of the point of the whole "bit." I certainly don't care that you can't stand A Link to the Past.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on April 25, 2010, 08:38:08 PM
Well if we're dusting off the old "it's subjective, so I'm allowed to hate this popular game and you can't tell me I'm wrong" bit, I'd like to declare that I can't stand A Link to the Past and I think it's awful.
:'(
I'm going to avoid this thread from now on, because it keeps making me cry inside.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 26, 2010, 11:52:23 AM
I want the next game to have as many boss battles as God of War2 and make them just as massive. Also, Nintendo should allow some kind of DLC for the game like Capcom is doing for the new monster hunter game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 26, 2010, 01:20:25 PM
Quote
the thing i worry about though is top down stiflement...it sounds like the guys on the bottom have lots of ideas, but Miyamoto tends to keep his pimp hand strong when it comes to his baby.
Nintendo likes their titles to have universal appeal. Even before they went all non-gamer they didn't want to make niche titles. They went with kid friendly visuals so that all ages could enjoy their games. They usually avoided having a really high difficulty. They streamline controls and want their games to be easy to get into and understand. They alway want the big commercial hit.
I think that can limit the creativity of their titles. Majora's Mask is one of my favourite games of all time. Though I can understand why some people don't like it. It is not very accessible. It has this three day time limit thing where if you do it wrong you lose progress and have to repeat things. It's full of sidequests and it's very non-linear. It's a very hardcore game and you have to be open-minded to like it. It's the sort of game that rewards those that love it and tells those that don't to "**** off".
That's not the sort of game Miyamoto likes. He likes the big universal appeal inoffensive megahit. He and Iwata don't like it when a game is going to turn some people off. And I think that's why Zelda is stale because it can't be TOO creative or will scare people off. The irony is that being too formulaic and accessible can turn off people that want something less broad but that isn't what Nintendo focuses on. The key thing is that everyone CAN like their games. That attitude doesn't mean the games are doomed to suck but at the very least it brings with it a limitation in creativity.
A truly creative Zelda will be more inaccessible.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 26, 2010, 02:07:57 PM
good points Ian, I do think however that a great Zelda game is around the corner, but im not sure if its this one. The artwork we've seen so far makes me think of sort of Ico-esque game, but you can't base your pe-conception on what this game will be based on one elusive piece of early artwork. Resident Evil 4 ended up being a much different game than its original trailer. Nintendo could have just shown any preliminary artwork, but unfortunately a blurry ass picture leaks, and people like me deconstructed it forcing Nintendo to release it :P For the record if a situation like that occurs again yes, yes you can take use my image. I got an PM asking if they could use my pic, but i was off-line for 2 days. Editing my sig!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 26, 2010, 04:01:29 PM
The thing about the upcoming Zelda though is the use of Motion+ and long development pretty much guarantees that they have something big planned. I mean, if Nintendo wanted to they could have easily released another Zelda like Twilight Princess with better motion controls using just the regular Wiimote by the end of 2008/early 2009. Majora's Mask was made in 1.5 years, Wind Waker was made in less then 2 years and Twilight Princess was made in about 2.5 years. The longest it took to make a 3D Zelda was Ocarina of Time that took 3 years to make and Zelda Wii has already been in development longer then that.
Of course some of you have different definitions of big and change. But my point is that Zelda Wii is looking to have the biggest change in a Zelda's core gameplay since Ocarina of Time. Whether everyone like the changes though is something we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: GearBoxClock on April 26, 2010, 04:08:08 PM
I want the next game to have as many boss battles as God of War2 and make them just as massive. Also, Nintendo should allow some kind of DLC for the game like Capcom is doing for the new monster hunter game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_Zelda_no_Densetsu_Kodai_no_Sekiban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_Zelda_no_Densetsu_Kodai_no_Sekiban) I do have to wonder if this post is trolling
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 26, 2010, 05:46:26 PM
Well if we're dusting off the old "it's subjective, so I'm allowed to hate this popular game and you can't tell me I'm wrong" bit, I'd like to declare that I can't stand A Link to the Past and I think it's awful.
You hated Link to the Past and Super Mario World? Did a Super NES kill your cat or something when you were little? ;)
I'm not sure what it is; I love most of the other games in both series and Super Metroid and Yoshi's Island are both in my top ten which would seem to indicate that I have no problem with the SNES.
Well if we're dusting off the old "it's subjective, so I'm allowed to hate this popular game and you can't tell me I'm wrong" bit, I'd like to declare that I can't stand A Link to the Past and I think it's awful.
Awesome? That's kind of the point of the whole "bit." I certainly don't care that you can't stand A Link to the Past.
It was just a nice way of saying that if you're going to troll the thread, I might as well troll it too.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 27, 2010, 04:43:45 AM
Well if we're dusting off the old "it's subjective, so I'm allowed to hate this popular game and you can't tell me I'm wrong" bit, I'd like to declare that I can't stand A Link to the Past and I think it's awful.
You hated Link to the Past and Super Mario World? Did a Super NES kill your cat or something when you were little? ;)
I'm not sure what it is; I love most of the other games in both series and Super Metroid and Yoshi's Island are both in my top ten which would seem to indicate that I have no problem with the SNES.
But what if the SNES in question had Super Mario World in it at the time of your hypothetical cat's death? Or it was merely the carts for SMW and ALttP that did the deed? ;)
The thing about the upcoming Zelda though is the use of Motion+ and long development pretty much guarantees that they have something big planned. I mean, if Nintendo wanted to they could have easily released another Zelda like Twilight Princess with better motion controls using just the regular Wiimote by the end of 2008/early 2009. Majora's Mask was made in 1.5 years, Wind Waker was made in less then 2 years and Twilight Princess was made in about 2.5 years. The longest it took to make a 3D Zelda was Ocarina of Time that took 3 years to make and Zelda Wii has already been in development longer then that.
You have to remember that Ocarina and Majora used the same game engine. Half of the dev time for Ocarina was getting the engine up and running properly. So of course Majora released in less time since the framework was already in place. We don't know if they are reusing the engine from TP (which was the Wind Waker engine) or if they were making a whole new one built 'from the ground up for Wii' (haha ;) ). Add onto that dev time for making sure M+ support is functional and they could actually not have had as much time to add proper content to the game yet.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 27, 2010, 05:08:30 AM
you think you would have completed the dungeons so fast if you hadn't already played so many Zelda games? MM did have exceptional dungeon design though. The bosses wee cooler too.
Also, i had all the masks before i decided to fight pushover Majora :P
I didn't play so many Zelda games beforehand. I played Zelda 1 once, never bothered with Adventure of Stink, played thru LttP once (in the months before Ocarina's launch) thought it was masterful and significant but didn't get a lot of excitement out of it because I grow tired of massive 2D maps. Ocarina of Time was different; it was a spiritual successor to Mario64's 3D puzzle work; I played Ocarina about 10 times, first two times for 100% completion, and the rest to kill time by zipping through the mouth-watering 3D gameplay. In the latter plays I'd start the game from scratch then beat the Forest Temple 6 hours later in that same sitting; Forest Temple takes me 45min to beat.
So when it came to the "next" adventure for the same Link that once beat the mighty Pig of Power, I decided to be an effing Hero of Daylight Savings Time rather than a Procrastinating Whiner of a so-called Nintendo Fan.
Oni Link is a neat gimmick that's good for a few seconds, but it's more fun fighting Majora with just Link+Bunny Hood or using the 3 Mask and not relying on human-Link's tools.
I didn't use the Oni Link Mask the first time fighting Majora. I stripped down, and we fought as equals.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 27, 2010, 05:22:25 AM
I think I ruined the Majora fights because I got Oni Link before ever facing him and it made the boss a cakewalk and left me feeling letdown a bit. But the get was so fun up to that point that I still thought of it fondly despite the easy boss fight. Besides, I had gotten used to easy boss fights in Zelda games by that point.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on April 27, 2010, 10:48:45 AM
I had Oni Link before I fought Majora as well. I actually remember destroying him in seconds and then reseting the game before I saw the end. I then fought him again without the mask and it was awesome.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 27, 2010, 12:21:37 PM
Then there's that final TheGANNONdorf fight in TP. I didn't want to believe how much non-effort went into that. Seriously, COMBAT ROLL to win? It's not like it was some secret technique/strategy you had to figure out. They didn't give me any sort of cheezy over-powered Mask or special weaponry, it was just "roll around till you get the ending." I was furious and disappointed.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 27, 2010, 12:41:36 PM
I had no problem destorying Majora with Oni Link. I worked hard to earn that Fierce Deity Mask and being able to smush the last boss was my reward. But I don't really get much of a thrill out of fighting bosses. It's a part of videogames I'm not very good at and I find them to be somewhat of a chore.
A Link to the Past was the first Zelda I played as I never had an NES. It absolutely blew me away, not just because it's a great game, but because before then I had never played a game with that kind of scope. I was used to linear level based games. Playing a game with permanent power-ups and just one big open world blew my mind. I had not thought of videogames in that way before. My brothers and I didn't have access to the manual so we had no idea about the dual-worlds thing. We assumed after beating Agahnim that the game would be over as that seemed to us like a normal videogame length. When we first appeared in the dark world we were shocked to find out the game wasn't even half over. That isn't the first time you go to the dark world in the game but we never put 2+2 together. We figured the dark world stuff we had done before was limited to that part of game, since you only see the Death Mountain area.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 27, 2010, 12:44:08 PM
Then there's that final TheGANNONdorf fight in TP. I didn't want to believe how much non-effort went into that. Seriously, COMBAT ROLL to win? It's not like it was some secret technique/strategy you had to figure out. They didn't give me any sort of cheezy over-powered Mask or special weaponry, it was just "roll around till you get the ending." I was furious and disappointed.
I never made it to the end of Ocarina of Time, but after recently having watched my friend complete the last few dungeons and beat the game, I can tell you that I would have been disappointed to discover that the epic battle with Ganondorf at the end was identical in terms of execution to the Ganondorf fight in the Forest Temple. Boy I love playing tennis.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 27, 2010, 02:13:18 PM
You've got a point there. Nintendo loves that tennis. They used the tennis routine twice in Wind Waker, and twice in Mario Galaxy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 27, 2010, 02:15:28 PM
Majora's Mask side-quests were there to get you to interact with the characters, which was Koizumi's goal with the game.
Besides, the game didn't have a long development time span. I think it was almost the same length as Wind Waker.
I think it was even shorter. Which makes the game even more amazing, to put such quality game in such a short time.
Majora's Mask is such a weird game, which is why I appreciate so much, I doubt we'll ever get a game like this, from Nintendo or any other developer.
I'd say it had MORE gameplay than either Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. Both of those felt long due to the vast amount of EMPTY SPACE you had to trek through, meaning there was a lot of time wasted for every step you took. In MM, there was plenty to do in so few seconds of travel no matter what direction you walked in. It also has the most efficient transportation system in the entire series, ensuring you didn't wait long before finding something worthwhile to do: standard teleports; standard worthless horse; high-speed Goron rolling on land; swift Zora swimming thru water instead of taking forever to get across any version of Lake Hylia; and the Bunny Hood which allowed you to generously move fast over standard surfaces while STILL retaining the conventional abilities of Link that no Horse, Boat, Wolf, nor Train can provide.
MM also maintained the equivalent of 8 LONG dungeons. 4 Primary dungeons plus the quests (which thoroughly tested your secondary abilities you acquired) required to gain entrance into each. Looking at a base duration of 3 hours (Slow Song of Time) for each dungeon/quest phase, that's at least 24 hours of gameplay by a skilled player -- the general concensus I gather is that MM's main dungeons were, on average, the longest and most difficult group of dungeons among the 3D Zeldas, so people are likely to spend more than 3 hours on it.
Ocarina of Time took me between 3 to 5 hours to beat a dungeon and clear all its treasures the first time through (it was 1998 launch period, I was 17, senior in high school, and this scope of 3D was still new to me and all of us). I beat MM's dungeon's within the 3 hour Song of Time AND found all the weird fairies in addition to the standard treasures. Time well spent. Wind Waker was short of a "real" dungeon, replaced by some half-assed "escape quest" in the beginning. TP has that insanely linearly Twilight Dungeon (I got to the goddamn "Twilight Realm," and this is the best they could come up with? Miyamoto must've laid the smack down to get this game done in time for Casual Gamers), an escape quest, and a handful of silly cinematic action sequences to make Link's adventure seem "cool" (and you knew what these were: an attempt to mask the empty space that makes up Hyrule Field, that you would suffer going back and forth through anyway later) and make up for the fact that Link can't inject much excitement into the MATURE ZELDA becuz he has no voice acting. /voice acting troll
Oh, and the completion time. Both WW and TP dungeons typically took me TWO HOURS TO CLEAR AND FIND EVERYTHING. LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME rush job. You can tell Nintendo was running out of dungeon design ideas in WW and TP because every other dungeon was another fucking CYLINDRICAL TOWER. "Oh, where have I seen this before?" "Oh, I guess they want me to do this and this, and that will show me the boss door for sure" At least MM provided 2 of those (before making them stale on Nintendo GAMECUBE) and made you travel in ways you didn't anticipate; c'mon, we don't need another DEKU TREE.
MM was also the last 3D console Zelda to have LEGITIMATE SECRETS. None of the "map that leads to a chest that leads to ANOTHER MAP" bullshit found in Wind Waker. And none of the "Fifth Heart Piece" bullshit and "Heart Piece in an ARBITRARY DUNGEON TREASURE CHEST" bullshit found in TP. MM had only 4 primary bosses and thus 4 complete Hearts to give away -- meaning there were plenty of plain Heart-quarters to find, and they involved reasonable (to amazing) efforts to acquire.
Then ON TOP OF ALL THAT, we had the awesome sidequests people love talking about, bringing substance to the NPCs and their world that we haven't seen in Zelda since.
By the time I encountered the final boss, I had all the hearts, all the masks, all the ____ , the Oni Link Mask, and ~50 hours clocked in. That was time well spent. MM was a game for experienced Ocarina players.
and unlike TP's final boss, Majora wasn't a pushover. and unlike WW in general, MM's enemies and bosses did real damage.
*Slow claps*
This is the most epic Zelda post I've read in a long long time.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 27, 2010, 08:40:30 PM
i want a side quest that would be a game itself, like some sort of resident evil parody
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 27, 2010, 08:59:14 PM
I never made it to the end of Ocarina of Time, but after recently having watched my friend complete the last few dungeons and beat the game, I can tell you that I would have been disappointed to discover that the epic battle with Ganondorf at the end was identical in terms of execution to the Ganondorf fight in the Forest Temple. Boy I love playing tennis.
Actually that part wasn't too bad, the real disappointment was the fact Ganon at the end was a total joke. I mean, what the f*ck, the game refers to him as just Ganon making you think, Oh Sh!t, it's on now. But instead there's nothing Ganon about him.
No firebats No teleporting No turning invisable No spining trident No cheap tricks making you have to do the entire fight over again
Instead all we got was something so easy, slow and boring he makes the Deku Tree's boss look like the Thunderbird from Zelda 2. I mean seriously, they couldn't have given him some kind of long-range attack. Both Gannondorf bosses had long range attacks, and yet the motherf*cking Ganon himself has nothing?
This is why I always find it funny when the Ocarina of Time fanboys slam Wind Waker and Twilight Princes final boss fights for being too easy, even though OOT final boss is 10 times easier.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on April 27, 2010, 09:54:38 PM
It was just a nice way of saying that if you're going to troll the thread, I might as well troll it too.
Ehh, it's not the same thing. I facepalm every time someone's argument is "you only like X because of Y." Like, who the f*ck are you (not you, insanolord... you know what I mean) to tell me what I like or dislike? People who don't understand the concept of subjectivity should shut the hell up. Seems to me, the fact that it bears repeating means there are still a lot of people who don't get it.
Then there's that final TheGANNONdorf fight in TP. I didn't want to believe how much non-effort went into that. Seriously, COMBAT ROLL to win? It's not like it was some secret technique/strategy you had to figure out. They didn't give me any sort of cheezy over-powered Mask or special weaponry, it was just "roll around till you get the ending." I was furious and disappointed.
Ugh, I know. I remember thinking it couldn't get worse than that... then God of War III came out and that final boss/ending bricked in my gaming mouth.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 27, 2010, 10:10:36 PM
While we are on the topic of Final battles in Zelda games. I think the gauntlet of battles in Twilight Princess was exciting. The last battle with Ganondorf was ok. There was a way to defeat TP Ganondorf easily. Get out your fishing rod and use it. Ganondorf will be distracted for a few seconds and you can get some sword swipes in.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 27, 2010, 10:35:30 PM
iv been pretty content with boss fights, but defeating ganon on WW is so sudden your like WTF? But also HE HAD A BIG SWORD IN HIS HEAD IT was a cool fight though
i have to say subjectivity is a failure of a philosophy though, i prefer objectivity. I see a lot of people hating a game because they liked another one better, but if game a and game b didn't exist would you like game c better? Game A and Game B do not exist to Zelda newbies, that is why to them Game C is so awesome. Saying something is bad because Game C has some things Game A has fails, because either game A was also a failure or your being harsh on game C. Game B was completely different but only half the people liked it because it was different than game A, how the hell is Nintendo supposed to please anyone? Subjects are boxes. How many innovations are made by people who are trained outside their fields?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 27, 2010, 11:06:44 PM
I just want gigantic boss battles and plenty of them. That is why I want Nintendo to provide adequate DLC to satisfy my appetite for LoZ boass battles.
How about Nintendo add some RPG elements to the series. For example, Link has to eat and drink water(especially if he is in the desert) and must take breaks often to rest or he loses health. Maybe I am stealing this from MGS 3?
I was playing TP the other night and something bugged me about the geography of Hyrule. Lake Hylia is located right next to the desert, how is this possibe, or is it laziness on the part Nintendo? I mean the Gerudo desert should be on the other side Death mountain thanks to rain shadow(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_shadow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_shadow)).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 27, 2010, 11:18:48 PM
How about Nintendo add some RPG elements to the series. For example, Link has to eat and drink water(especially if he is in the desert) and must take breaks often to rest or he loses health.
Miyamoto would never let that be included, which is good because it's a terrible idea.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 27, 2010, 11:22:53 PM
How about Nintendo ruin everything we like about Zelda by making it like every other game
on Rain Shadow.... The Zora River
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on April 28, 2010, 01:22:18 AM
There have always been RPG elements, they just don't use experience until Zelda 2(which was awesome). In the very first game you picked up rings to get better defense as you went along and as you progressed you could pick up new more powerful swords based only on how far you had gotten.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on April 28, 2010, 03:30:28 AM
Kytim, you should really try Monster Hunter 3. Every other hunt is an epic boss fight like the ones you've asked for.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on April 28, 2010, 09:53:52 AM
The only thing I will ask the Gaming Gods for are more ingenious puzzles (seriously, no more push the block in the square) and harder enemies that make me worry I might actually die.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 28, 2010, 10:08:08 AM
How about Nintendo ruin everything we like about Zelda by making it like every other game
on Rain Shadow.... The Zora River
I do not understand you answer.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on April 28, 2010, 12:43:33 PM
One thing that I would like for bosses would be something that more resembles a sword fight. That's one thing I really liked about the final boss in WW. The best Zelda fight I ever had was the first one against an Iron Knuckle in OoT. That was intense and my heart was pounding out of my chest afterwards. Because the Iron Knuckle is a more human-esque character the fight is more like a sword fight. A lot of Zelda bosses are these huge monsters where it's more like a puzzle to defeat them. I had more trouble with Stalfos in OoT then I did with any of the bosses. Those feel like a real fight.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 28, 2010, 04:37:53 PM
Hopefully there will be at least one boss battle where you rely on Motion+ to target a specific body part/armor and hit with your sword. Targeting specific areas is a common battle mechanic, but like Ian says, it's used too much like a puzzle. Notice visual clue, wait for boss to pause, stand still and aim your reticule, press button to throw your boomerang/whatever. Although the bosses change, the underlying algorithm is pretty constant. At least with Motion+ you can use targeting as more of a battle technique/strategy. Sword fights are just more exciting in my opinion.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 28, 2010, 08:30:01 PM
Hopefully there will be at least one boss battle where you rely on Motion+ to target a specific body part/armor and hit with your sword. Targeting specific areas is a common battle mechanic, but like Ian says, it's used too much like a puzzle. Notice visual clue, wait for boss to pause, stand still and aim your reticule, press button to throw your boomerang/whatever. Although the bosses change, the underlying algorithm is pretty constant. At least with Motion+ you can use targeting as more of a battle technique/strategy. Sword fights are just more exciting in my opinion.
Actually if they expand on the Darknut fights from Twilight Princess there probably will be fights like this. Since those were rather similar to what you just described with the whole cutting of armor fighting another person with a sword. So Nintendo basically has the structure for such a fight already laid out. Now with the Motion+ being used, I can easily see something like what you described actually happening.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 28, 2010, 10:49:39 PM
Things like Rivers and and the density and permiability of the surrounding rock can alter the effect on rain shadow.
If I was designing the geography of Hyrule, I would put Gerudo desert on the other side of Death Mountain because it just does not make much sense for a desert to be right next to a large body of water. I mean the evaporation from lake hylia would create rain for the desert, right? It would not be a desert?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 29, 2010, 12:56:59 AM
i think it depends on the body of water, if it were an ocean i could understand this, but lakes dry out all the time, not to mention i don't think lake Hylia is big enough to create rain from its evaporation. One of the deals with the Gerado area is it used to be a fertile place and then dried out. Egypt is well known for being arid, but about 2800 years ago it was tropical.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 29, 2010, 12:57:50 AM
And the Nile runs straight through it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on April 29, 2010, 01:02:52 AM
i think it depends on the body of water, if it were an ocean i could understand this, but lakes dry out all the time, not to mention i don't think lake Hylia is big enough to create rain from its evaporation. One of the deals with the Gerado area is it used to be a fertile place and then dried out. Egypt is well known for being arid, but about 2800 years ago it was tropical.
Does Hyrule have an ocean?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 29, 2010, 01:08:22 AM
It does in Wind Waker...!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on May 01, 2010, 11:56:25 PM
It looks as though the Las Plagas have invaded Hyrule and taken over Link and Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 02, 2010, 03:19:23 AM
What is this filth.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on May 02, 2010, 04:31:04 AM
the pc version
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on May 03, 2010, 02:17:25 PM
Nintendo should implement some kind of armor system for Link to use in the game. Similar to the system implemented in MGS: Peace Walker, different types of armor Link can use that alters the game play. Imagine Link wearing armor over his tunic to give him extra protection from enemy attacks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Morari on May 03, 2010, 02:27:34 PM
It looks as though the Las Plagas have invaded Hyrule and taken over Link and Zelda.
That's hilarious. At least some interesting modding came out of that horrible PC port that Capcom **** out.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on May 03, 2010, 02:30:43 PM
Remember the first time doing a backflip, firing a bow or riding a horse in OOT? It was mostly because how well done the controls were (at the time) that made the game so great.
That's the only thing I want from this new game. Controls that feel remarkable.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 03, 2010, 02:57:42 PM
Please place the Wii Remote face-down on a flat surface first.
You will be required to do this every time you open a chest containing rupees you can't carry cuz your wallet is full.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on May 03, 2010, 03:04:21 PM
I'd be so pissed if that happened.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on May 03, 2010, 03:17:25 PM
That's my big worry, too. It's pretty clear that Wii Sports + was a testing ground for Zelda things. I think it would be funny if they added Balance Board support, too. One of Link's new items? A Segway.
But yeah, if I have to calibrate the stupid Wii Motion Resort every time I whip out the Fairy Bow, I'll be annoyed.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on May 03, 2010, 04:41:31 PM
Quote
Remember the first time doing a backflip, firing a bow or riding a horse in OOT? It was mostly because how well done the controls were (at the time) that made the game so great.
That's the only thing I want from this new game. Controls that feel remarkable.
That would be great, but I don't think Nintendo considers remarkable controls a priority anymore. Aside from those that offer classic controller support, every first party Wii game I've played has had SOME sort of hiccup in the controls that has hurt my experience with it. It feels more like Nintendo is trying to shove motion control down my throat, instead of provide me fine tuned responsive controls that fit the game.
I'll make do if the controls just don't suck. That's some pretty weak standards to meet but I'd rather play a Zelda with kinda lousy controls than no Zelda at all. Phantom Hourglass's controls crossed the line for me though, enough that I turned the game off in frustration and didn't buy Spirit Tracks. That's scary as it shows that even Zelda is not safe.
Nintendo has to design the controls in a game design frame of mind instead of a business frame of mind. The business frame of mind is going to ask "how can we use Zelda to sell Motion+" and "how can we attract a wider audience". The game design frame of mind is going to ask "how do we make this game play like a dream". There's a big difference there.
Zelda will sell if it's GOOD. They don't need to delve any deeper than that. Make a GOOD game and design the controls with that and ONLY THAT in mind and it'll be a hit. If non-gamers don't like Zelda it will be because they don't like the very nature of Zelda gameplay, not because the controls are too complicated.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 03, 2010, 04:56:24 PM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on May 03, 2010, 04:56:37 PM
@ Ian: Even in Galaxy? I found the shake to spin and pointing actions to not detract one little bit.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on May 03, 2010, 07:59:30 PM
Quote
I fixed that for you.
Don't you think it would have to be a good game though? A lot of the strength of Nintendo's titles is that they continue to sell for a long period of time. With poor word of mouth I don't think that would happen.
An important part of Nintendo's success is that they actually make good games. They always have to remember that. Making Zelda great is an absolute requirement and should be the highest priority.
And Caterkiller, I don't like the shake spin in Galaxy. I mean the game is still awesome but when I'm in the thick of a game sometimes the controller moves a bit and shake moves go off when I don't want to.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 03, 2010, 09:38:42 PM
Just admit your faults.
Same with the tilt platforms in NSMBWii, you're supposed to fight against your own dexterity as part of the challenge, none of that "click until the angle's just right" BS you proposed some time ago.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on May 03, 2010, 09:54:24 PM
That's my big worry, too. It's pretty clear that Wii Sports + was a testing ground for Zelda things. I think it would be funny if they added Balance Board support, too. One of Link's new items? A Segway.
I totally want that spin/top/gear tool from Twilight Princess to be in this game with balance board support. Imagine surfing around via gears like that. Could be a brilliant parallel to snowboarding. TP alreay had snowboarding in the ice level. I want to surf gears now on the BB.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on May 04, 2010, 01:07:06 AM
I want Link to be able to grapple enemies and devastate them with crushing suplexes.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on May 04, 2010, 03:24:12 AM
I want downright amazing mini games
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2010, 10:21:53 PM
something about making Zelda more approachable (referring to the controls) since it has become too complicated.
Also says that the artwork is very representative of the look,feel & story of the game. They made the controls mechanics before they worked on the look and feel of the game, they usually do it the other way around. Miyamoto want this game to be surprisingly new and pleasing to the fans.
The game will be a E3 and you will see how fun it is to play. [wish I was going :( ]
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on May 14, 2010, 10:52:11 PM
man that exercised my language section of my brain, i speak basic german, but not complex german, and then i hear Japanese in the background which reminds me I have to read the Naruto manga.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on May 14, 2010, 11:21:37 PM
The biggest questio I have for the game is will it be like a first person perspective when the handle the sword fighting? Will it be like Red Steel 2? Red Steel 2 was a very good game, but I would prefer to fight in a third person perspective using motion plus. What ever it is, I know it is going to be very good.
As for the graphics, Monster Hunter 3 is by far the best looking wii game so far, so Nintendo will have to up the anty if they want to avoid being shown up on their own hardware. This makes me think that Nintendo is going to go all out with the graphics for this game and make them surpass Monster Hunter 3.
As for the weapons that Link will be holding, Nintendo may take a cue from Capcom and Monster Hunter 3 and allow Link to wield more weapons than swords and shields. Link may wield axes, hammers, lances and bowguns(crossbow training?) in the game for defense. Of course you have swing the wiimote harder for the hammer to work properly. Basically each weapon has its own set amount of swing force to use.
Like I said before, I want the boss battles in this game to be more massive than anything we have ever seen on a Nintendo console. But I have to asked a question, is it possible to pack in large amounts of boss battles in the style of Shadow of Collossus and God of War 2? If possible, I would want Nintendo to surpass these games as much as possible?
Nintendo needs to bring back the Moblins. Those guys would probably give Link a run for his money. I am curios to see them as a more brutish and menacing adversary for Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on May 14, 2010, 11:56:52 PM
Tri looks rather nice I agree, but it is by no means the best seen on the system.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on May 15, 2010, 12:56:37 AM
Man those comments really get me excited! I am anticipating this way more than I probably should.
Kytim89 I hate your wishes for this game and then again I don't. The types of things that you long for can only make Zelda so much more interesting. Those are the types of things that make games redundant. Bosses haven't been as big as god of war or shadow of a Collossus, but TP did imitate those boss battles a bit. They were gigantic and for the first time Link could grapple/latch on to a boss and brutally attack them. If that wasn't God of War/Collosus inspired I don't know what is. More weapons, bigger bosses, that crap can only go so far before you feel the affects of Soul Caliber 4 and Grand Turismo.
When I say "and then again I don't" I mean things like that would be nice, but if that is the focus than the game can only fail. Even if technically it does everything well like TP.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on May 15, 2010, 01:36:47 AM
Man those comments really get me excited! I am anticipating this way more than I probably should.
Kytim89 I hate your wishes for this game and then again I don't. The types of things that you long for can only make Zelda so much more interesting. Those are the types of things that make games redundant. Bosses haven't been as big as god of war or shadow of a Collossus, but TP did imitate those boss battles a bit. They were gigantic and for the first time Link could grapple/latch on to a boss and brutally attack them. If that wasn't God of War/Collosus inspired I don't know what is. More weapons, bigger bosses, that crap can only go so far before you feel the affects of Soul Caliber 4 and Grand Turismo.
When I say "and then again I don't" I mean things like that would be nice, but if that is the focus than the game can only fail. Even if technically it does everything well like TP.
Yes, I totally agree with you in that regard. However, Nintendo seems to have the capacity tp avoid making the game redundant. In Shadow of Collossus when you confront one of the collosi and he is like a sky scrapper compared to your character and you get that feeling of how are you going to defeat something so massive. I just love te feeling of you, the character in the game, being this small fellow in a giant world filled with massive enemies that you are no more of a threat to than a mosquito is to one of us.
As for the graphics of MH3, they are the best that I have seen on a non-HD console. What other wii game has compariable graphics to this game? To me this is the most visually appealing game for the wii so far and I challenge Nintendo to do better for the next Zelda game. We will continue the debate about the graphics of MH3 being the best in its own topic, okay.
As for the weapons, just fighting with swords and bow/arrow along with quest items seems to get too boring, atleast for me. I want Nintendo to mix it up with weapons similar to that of MH3.
As for the armor system I mentioned before, I want one similar to that of MH3(I really like this game ;D ). Basically I want to be able to customize Link's appearance with various armors and clothing that I buy from shops. On a personal note, I used to collect those GI joe actions figures with fabricated clothing and I used to customized their clothing and weapons(yes, weird, go ahead and say it). I want to do the same for Link. Imagine adding a metal, spiked shoulder pad to Link and a gauntlet over one of his arms.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 15, 2010, 06:41:49 AM
Quote
something about making Zelda more approachable (referring to the controls) since it has become too complicated.
This better not mean it is being dumbed down for the blue ocean crowd.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shaymin on May 15, 2010, 08:30:22 AM
Wouldn't they just implement some sort of Super Guide and make everything after that difficult?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 15, 2010, 02:36:52 PM
It usually means the 3 hour tutorial they usually put at the beginning of these ZERUDA games.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 15, 2010, 05:48:22 PM
Miyamoto's been talking about making Zelda the upcoming Zelda for the Wii more accessible ever since Twilight Princess came out. There's nothing really new in this latest interview since a lot of the stuff Miyamoto said is just a rehash of info he's already said in previous interviews.
At least he confirms that Zelda will be playable. All we know before was that they'd show it off at E3, not if it'd be playable or not.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 15, 2010, 06:52:43 PM
If it's playable then that gives it a good chance of coming out this year.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 15, 2010, 07:04:52 PM
I am dreading this "simpler" business he is banging on about. It will probably be on rails.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 15, 2010, 07:06:45 PM
Considering they keep saying it's coming out in 2010, it pretty much would HAVE to be playable if they expected people to believe that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on May 15, 2010, 08:23:26 PM
I wish Zelda were a playable character (and not in a manner similar to Spirit Tracks). It might be interesting to control multiple characters throughout the game besides just Link.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on May 15, 2010, 09:09:20 PM
As we edge closer to the reveal during this years E3, this topic is going to pick up momentum and I bet that the number of pages will double due to all of the discussion surrounding the game once we all see it in action.
The biggest question that I have about the game is will Gano return as the main villian, or will Nintendo create a new bad gut for the game? If they do bring back Ganon he needs more screen time unlike the time he had in TP. As the final boss, I want Ganon to transform into some kind of giant big demon like he did in OoT except this time he should be the same size as a collossi from Shadow of Collossus.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 15, 2010, 09:14:19 PM
I wish Zelda were a playable character (and not in a manner similar to Spirit Tracks). It might be interesting to control multiple characters throughout the game besides just Link.
Well it is the Legend of Zelda not The Adventures of Link ::shudders at memory of that horrible game::
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caliban on May 15, 2010, 11:20:30 PM
Well it is the Legend of Zelda not The Adventures of Link ::shudders at memory of that horrible game::
What, this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda_2 ? It's an awesome game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on May 16, 2010, 11:13:03 PM
Nuts to Black's opinion on Zelda 2.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 16, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
I was trying to poke the bee hive. You guys don't work up too easy.
But seriously, there is a reason why no Zelda since has been like that one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 17, 2010, 01:39:03 AM
While it is true that no Zelda game since Zelda 2 has had a side scrolling point of view everything that we know that is Zelda today came from Zelda 2.The magic, puzzles, and better combat came from Zelda 2.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on May 17, 2010, 02:15:27 AM
zelda alttp * zelda 2 = Zelda OOT
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2010, 02:55:43 AM
I didn't say it was all bad, it just wasn't executed correctly.
the side scrolling could have been much better and the same with just about everything else.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 17, 2010, 03:41:54 AM
It could've been good, like Castlevania.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MaryJane on May 17, 2010, 09:45:48 AM
I wish they would make a Zelda RPG a la Mario RPG even if it was just a WiiWare game
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on May 17, 2010, 10:23:41 AM
So, Nintendo aims (http://www.destructoid.com/new-wii-zelda-aims-to-be-player-friendly--173860.phtml) to make the controls for Zelda Wii more "player friendly" because the series has become so "complicated"? Considering what language like that usually means for Nintendo, I'm suddenly a little concerned about the game. I really don't want any of Nintendo's Blue Ocean BS in this game, which is kind of what this sounds like. What, is Link going to control exclusively with the Wiimote + Motion+ only? Hopefully, this just means they're planning on using Motion + to allow more natural movement for aiming the bow and swinging the sword ala Wii Sports Resort (which is what we've always figured it was).
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on May 17, 2010, 10:50:55 AM
Zelda is now a relationship sim game where the Master She-Sword will refuse to transform into weapon mode if you are not calm/happy enough via the Vitality Sensor. You have to keep her happy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 17, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Shemale of Time
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on May 17, 2010, 01:13:21 PM
Quote
I really don't want any of Nintendo's Blue Ocean BS in this game, which is kind of what this sounds like. What, is Link going to control exclusively with the Wiimote + Motion+ only? Hopefully, this just means they're planning on using Motion + to allow more natural movement for aiming the bow and swinging the sword ala Wii Sports Resort (which is what we've always figured it was).
Motion controls offer a dilemma. Providing the option to use traditional controls sounds nice in theory but in order for it to work motion controls have to be scaled back so that the game can use either method. As a result the motion controls are not used to their full potential and feel more like buttons mapped to gestures. To truly make use of motion controls the game has to be designed for the ground up to use motion controls and that likely would mean the game would be incompatible with traditional controls. But if you can't provide the option then you better make sure that the player never thinks "damn, I wish I could just use a regular controller here". You either nail it perfect or you fail hard.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on May 17, 2010, 01:17:08 PM
I really don't want any of Nintendo's Blue Ocean BS in this game, which is kind of what this sounds like. What, is Link going to control exclusively with the Wiimote + Motion+ only? Hopefully, this just means they're planning on using Motion + to allow more natural movement for aiming the bow and swinging the sword ala Wii Sports Resort (which is what we've always figured it was).
Motion controls offer a dilemma. Providing the option to use traditional controls sounds nice in theory but in order for it to work motion controls have to be scaled back so that the game can use either method. As a result the motion controls are not used to their full potential and feel more like buttons mapped to gestures. To truly make use of motion controls the game has to be designed for the ground up to use motion controls and that likely would mean the game would be incompatible with traditional controls. But if you can't provide the option then you better make sure that the player never thinks "damn, I wish I could just use a regular controller here". You either nail it perfect or you fail hard.
Umm...I'm sure that was the answer to something, but it certainly wasn't an answer to my post. I have no problems with requiring Motion+, as I have said on numerous occasions that it should be required in all Wii games that use motion control from here on it. I was just wondering if this control scheme they're cooking up might be as ****ed-up as their one for Other M and just be the remote w Motion+ using the D-pad ONLY for movement, rather than using the Motion + remote and the nunchuck.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 17, 2010, 01:57:02 PM
It wouldn't use the d-pad for movement. It'll be like the DS games: you use the remote to point where you want to move.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 17, 2010, 01:58:19 PM
I hated using the stylus to move Link in the DS games, I don't want them to even think about doing something like that with the Wii games; doing that would have the potential to ruin the game just on that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 17, 2010, 02:39:22 PM
Nintendo will do it, just for you.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2010, 02:39:53 PM
A point and click Link Adventure on Wii only has the "potential" to ruin the series?
understatement of the decade.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on May 17, 2010, 03:07:01 PM
You point at the screen to move and you swing around the 'Mote to control the She-Blade whom is 'cleverly' named Phiibii or some such nonsense. ;) D-Pad controls the camera and we all scream in horror.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on May 17, 2010, 04:27:52 PM
Regardless of whether this game gets high review scores and sells well, ZELDA FANS WILL STILL WHINE.
We can never win.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 17, 2010, 04:28:38 PM
They can always whine.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 17, 2010, 05:13:09 PM
Regardless of whether this game gets high review scores and sells well, ZELDA FANS WILL STILL WHINE.
We can never win.
It took a few years for them to start bitching about Twilight Princess though.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2010, 05:21:01 PM
Twilight Princess bitching started as soon as the game was revealed.
especially when Link was revealed to turn into a wolf. that's when comparisons to Okami started, but that is just one of many examples.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 17, 2010, 05:38:07 PM
I rarely hear anything negative on the game until around 2008, before then it was almost universal praise.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on May 17, 2010, 05:38:51 PM
And yet, everyone was outraged about GameSpot's 8.8 score of Twilight Princess, claiming it deserved a higher score.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 17, 2010, 05:56:21 PM
It doesn't. It was the bravest, most honest thing Gerstmann did.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on May 17, 2010, 07:57:27 PM
Quote
I rarely hear anything negative on the game until around 2008, before then it was almost universal praise.
It was there at the beginning a bit. I think these things tend to involve a lot of groupthink though. The idea that Twilight Princess wasn't all that hot spread and so the idea became more and more common. I think it was over-praised at first and is now gone too far and is under-appreciated. These things go in waves.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shaymin on May 17, 2010, 10:54:09 PM
The worst console Zelda game is the most recent one, and the best is the one before that.
I'm pretty sure that explains the TP hate.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on May 17, 2010, 10:58:27 PM
E3's almost here, Tuesday we'll get the First look at the first real Zelda Wii :D can't wait, The legend continues.... Are you ready?
Nope.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MysticGohan on June 13, 2010, 09:12:39 PM
You better be, time to change the draws hehe...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 13, 2010, 10:24:02 PM
All I'm hoping for is a release date, I'll learn more about it when I can buy it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mannypon on June 15, 2010, 12:36:23 AM
Ran into this over at Gonintendo. Seems like there's a rumor getting around that the new Zelda will be cel shaded. Now, I personally would love this as I've been wishing Nintendo to use the Cel shaded engine again but I remember the backlash that resulted from the Wind Waker reveal. I think Cel shading provideds the best graphics on the Wii and I would love to see a merging of the TP engine with the WW engine.
All in all, I don't really believe this rumor as I don't see the Zelda trailer being showed to anyone the night before its big reveal. Here's a link though to the Gonintendo page. http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127017#comment-section (http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127017#comment-section)
look at these videos of cutscenes from Fire Emblem: RD. Thats what I imagine when I think of a new cel-shaded Zelda. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKNa5PqKJXo&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKNa5PqKJXo&feature=related)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on June 15, 2010, 12:52:25 AM
There was a rehearsal today for Nintendo Press Conference so it might have been someone who sunk in.... (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/n64/115615244_6a3cb4abb4812fffff133a563.jpg)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dasmos on June 15, 2010, 12:52:41 AM
I'm pretty sure the WW engine is the same as the TP engine, isn't it? Anyway if this turnd out to be cel-shaded again I would be so happy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mannypon on June 15, 2010, 12:57:32 AM
Yeah, I heard it was the same engine but I'm refering to if they went back to actually using cel-shading for the textures. Like in my previous post, if they achieve cel-shaded graphics that are even half as good as those Fire Emblem clips, I would sh*t myself twice over.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 15, 2010, 02:21:30 AM
Yeah I don't think there would be a Nintendo leak this close to the press conference.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 15, 2010, 04:00:25 AM
I'm pretty sure the WW engine is the same as the TP engine, isn't it? Anyway if this turnd out to be cel-shaded again I would be so happy.
This is true. I remember it being underscored several times by Miyamoto and others. It was among all of that talk about facial expressions and eye movement.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 15, 2010, 12:13:11 PM
LOL Miyamoto is crap at his WiiMotion Plus and his sword fighting!
The slingshot.... wow this is terrible.
This is sooo bad. Oh man, the archery. This is so motionfail.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mannypon on June 15, 2010, 12:35:34 PM
Oh man, this is not what I imagined when I thought of a new cel Zelda. This graphics actually look quite generic. The only scene in the trailer that looked good was when Link jumped off the waterfall but I think that was prerendered. Hopefully that presentation is no indication to how the game will control cause this looks like it has the potential to be a real pain in the ass to play with any consistency.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on June 15, 2010, 01:33:36 PM
I was hoping for a Twilight Princess 2 or a Majora's Mask 2 as far as graphics and themes go.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 15, 2010, 01:48:40 PM
Because Twilight Princess didn't look exactly like Gears of Zelda or anything.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 15, 2010, 01:57:42 PM
The colorful art style was excellent. I loved it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Spinnzilla on June 15, 2010, 02:02:30 PM
The soft colors do look really nice.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 15, 2010, 02:23:20 PM
I like the art style a lot. You know how all the Wind Waker defenders point to the 2D games and claim that Wind Waker is more accurate to that style? I always thought that was a weak argument because to me Wind Waker with it's cat eyes, pig feet and one colour textures looked completely different. Not all cartoony is the same. But this I think looks appropriate for cel-shaded Zelda. This better matches the 2D look. If Nintendo had shown this way way back when Wind Waker debuted there likely would have been no backlash at all. Wind Waker was a mistake, Twilight Princess was an over-correction, this looks right.
But Miyamoto struggling to make his own game work just kills my interest in this. I don't play Zelda to goof around with "interesting" controls. All I want is an epic adventure. I shouldn't even notice the controls. They provide me with no thrill, I just want something that works. This looks like absolute dogshit. You can say that maybe there was a glitch with the sensor or something. Well that may be. We'll find out tomorrow won't we?
But Nintendo already fucked up Zelda with Phantom Hourglass. That game is complete balls and it's entirely because Nintendo decided to shove some stupid gimmicky control scheme down our throats. The game is an utter chore to play and I didn't even bother with Spirit Tracks because of it. If Nintendo is willing to do that to DS Zelda why won't they do that with Wii Zelda? If they had any true interest in making a game that plays well they would have abandoned PH's touchscreen controls early in development. Obviously trying to sell us on some "innovative" control scheme, that only stunned rubes are impressed by, is Nintendo's priority. Pray that the demo was a bunch of technical difficulties because I don't trust for a second that Nintendo will "fix" it. It's not about using controls that work, it's about "proving" Nintendo's "new controller standard".
The demo looked like LAIR. Yeah, that's bad.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 15, 2010, 02:26:50 PM
Obviously something went wrong with the demo on stage, reports from the show floor say that the controls work flawlessly. Nintendo wouldn't have shown the game at E3 if it controlled that poorly during testing.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 15, 2010, 02:27:07 PM
"Wind Waker was a mistake"
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
And that's why Zelda games are garbage.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 15, 2010, 02:34:35 PM
Even if there is some small issue with the controls, there is plenty of time to tweak them before it is released.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: noname2200 on June 15, 2010, 02:50:06 PM
2011. James redeemed?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dasmos on June 15, 2010, 03:03:46 PM
Wow, the graphical style looks amazing. Only after more is shown will I be able to tell if it's better than WW.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on June 15, 2010, 03:10:11 PM
I don't like the remote overlay taking up the whole right side of the screen. Fix this
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 15, 2010, 03:11:21 PM
Just saw what it looks like and is is a good mix of Windwaker and TP. I like the Beatle.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 15, 2010, 04:00:26 PM
Bugs are not bands.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 15, 2010, 05:25:50 PM
Obviously something went wrong with the demo on stage, reports from the show floor say that the controls work flawlessly. Nintendo wouldn't have shown the game at E3 if it controlled that poorly during testing.
This is a relief. I didn't think that they would have brought up a heap of booths straight after the conference if there was any concern it wouldn't work.
The only part I'm a bit worried about it how necessary it is to hold the sword and shield that way. If you have to hold your arms in that position it is going to get real old real fast. It will be very uncomfortable to sit down to play.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on June 15, 2010, 05:26:40 PM
Wind Waker was a mistake, Twilight Princess was an over-correction, this looks right.
I almost agree with this. Wind Waker was a bait and switch, considering the Spaceworld 2000 trailer was so badass. I think that's why it was so poorly received at first though most people got over it. Twilight Princess was Nintendo's over-correction. I think they misinterpreted people's complaints about Wind Waker. They went overboard trying to be dark and mature without having the balls to do so. Don't kill off Princess Zelda then bring her back... just kill of Princess Zelda if that's what the story calls for. Besides the fact that the scene lacked much emotional impact (barely knew her, barely cared and nostalgia doesn't count), they killed what little it had by having Zelda pop up at the end of the game, alive and well (other than the whole being possessed thing).
Anyway, I'm a little disappointed in the trailer. Not necessarily the cel-shading (though I feel like it could be better), but it's EXACTLY what I'd expect from a Zelda game. Very little new there. I feel like I've already seen it dozens of times. I'm waiting for the girl from last year's art piece to be officially named "Sahworda" or "Bladey" or some stupid play on words.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 15, 2010, 05:36:54 PM
One that is one of the best selling and most popular games in the series, and in general. Most companies would kill to have a "mistake" like that. Nintendo never did a bait and switch. They showed off a tech demo (they even said it was just a tech demo), and people assumed that was what the next Zelda game would look like. You may not like it, but you are clearly in the minority on this.
As for the 2011 release date, that seemed pretty obvious based on the lack of any information before today. It was not realistic to think it would be released this year.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on June 15, 2010, 05:55:41 PM
It was a total bait and switch. They showed something that got people excited then said, "Nope, psych." That's the very definition of a bait and switch. Tech demo or not, when you show something like that, you're inciting expectations. It's not like Nintendo was blatantly like "Check out this graphical demonstration but be forewarned, the next Zelda game will look nothing like this so if you're expecting more of this, you will be sorely disappointed and it'll be you're own fault." I, personally, didn't hate the cel-shading. I just thought Link's character design was stupid, but I got over it. What I didn't get over was how boring everything not involving dungeons was in Wind Waker. God, I hated sailing. That got old really fast....
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 15, 2010, 06:16:22 PM
It's not bait and switch, look up what that is. They never claimed that was the game, they always said that was just a tech demo to show what the GameCube was possible of. Miyamoto said they didn't even start developing Wind Waker until after that tech demo had been released, so how could they say "this isn't what the next game will look like" when they hadn't even started working on it?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on June 15, 2010, 06:59:47 PM
It's not bait and switch, look up what that is. They never claimed that was the game, they always said that was just a tech demo to show what the GameCube was possible of.
Tech demo or not, when you show something like that, you're inciting expectations.
I'm really not debating this with you. It's not worth it. If you disagree, fine.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 15, 2010, 07:12:49 PM
Everybodies thoughts on the items that were shown?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 15, 2010, 07:13:27 PM
the previous pic was just character art that was NEVER MEANT TO BE SEEN BY THE PUBLIC, but because I forced Nintendo to show it. They did :P
i think this art style is another Nintendo overcorrection...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 15, 2010, 07:15:25 PM
Quote
It's not bait and switch, look up what that is. They never claimed that was the game, they always said that was just a tech demo to show what the GameCube was possible of.
I think it was less of a bait and switch and more just Nintendo being totally fucking DUMB. Yeah the Spaceworld footage was technically just a tech demo but the fans bought into it and expected something like it and Nintendo gave them the exact opposite. I don't think Nintendo was trying to deceive, they were just totally clueless regarding what the fans wanted and what effect the difference between the two styles would have.
If Wind Waker was an attempt to make the 3D games look more like the 2D ones then it was a failure because it doesn't look like them at all. In fact I'm pretty sure that was never the idea, it was just what defenders came up with to justify the graphic switch. I think Nintendo honestly was trying to change the style and it didn't go over as well as they hoped it would. Twilight Princess was the reaction to this but they went a little too far. When Wind Waker defenders would tell me that it looked like the 2D games something more like this is what popped into my head. This is more what I expected and now that I see it, it looks right. This fits the 2D games, it fits the N64 games. It works. It's Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on June 15, 2010, 07:17:00 PM
This game is almost exactly how I thought it would work. I'm curious to find what items they have in store and considering that everything is very M+ heavy, it's even more intriguing to see what you can do with them.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 15, 2010, 07:17:24 PM
It's not bait and switch, look up what that is. They never claimed that was the game, they always said that was just a tech demo to show what the GameCube was possible of.
Tech demo or not, when you show something like that, you're inciting expectations.
I'm really not debating this with you. It's not worth it. If you disagree, fine.
There is no debate, it's simple fact (look up the definition of "bait and switch" and you will see that this was NOT bait and switch). At least Ian realizes it was not bait and switch.
The new Zelda looks OK, I find it odd though that this is not how it will look when released.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 15, 2010, 07:39:30 PM
Ok I just left E3 to get back to work. At first glance Zelda was the least interesting out of Metroid, Kirby, DK and what ever else. Then I saw it blown up on this big ol tv, and thought yuck! But then on smaller tv I I could see the beauty of it and how the game worked. I could see people playing and the sword was going right where people pointed the remote. I thought for a moment "is Link going to be running with the sword constantly pointed forward like that?". Then I could see someone relaxed playing and it looked a bit more natural.
So far aside from control it looks like other 3D zelda's before it. Though I havn't seen the trailer yet, I know Link is going to fly.
Like Super Mario Galaxy 2 I am underwhelmed with what I saw, but I am actually kind of happy about that because Galaxy 2 really surprised the heck out me.
Now whats this all about the game not looking like this when it is released?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on June 15, 2010, 07:57:30 PM
I think it was less of a bait and switch and more just Nintendo being totally ****ing DUMB. Yeah the Spaceworld footage was technically just a tech demo but the fans bought into it and expected something like it and Nintendo gave them the exact opposite. I don't think Nintendo was trying to deceive, they were just totally clueless regarding what the fans wanted and what effect the difference between the two styles would have.
I can live with that explanation. I don't think they were being devious, but it was pretty dumb to show that tech demo then have Wind Waker look the way it did. No one expected Wind Waker after that tech demo, even after being told it was a tech demo. Honestly, that wasn't even my main issue with it. I actually like cel-shading. My favorite part of the demo was when Link tossed his shield and went on the offensive. That seemed so different from Ocarina of Time where the shield blocked almost every attack in the game. The series gameplay hasn't really evolved much since Ocarina of Time. I think that's my main concern with Skyward Sword. I'm concerned over how much Motion Plus will add to the game. I'm hoping a lot though the trailer didn't give me that impression.
There is no debate, it's simple fact (look up the definition of "bait and switch" and you will see that this was NOT bait and switch). At least Ian realizes it was not bait and switch.
Dude, relax. You took one line from my post then ignored the point of the entire post. Who cares? It's really not a big deal. Maybe you should look up the word "arrogant" and stop being that....
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 15, 2010, 08:49:16 PM
Just saw the trailer, not sure how i feel about the look but thats mainly because of the low quality video i saw on my tiny phone screen. The use of motion+ intrigues me... the game seems to use it heavily, which might be tiring considering the normal lenghty play sessions of Zelda titles I'm sure we all put in, and due to the comments about keeping controls simple I'm hoping that Nintendo doesn't screw up and throw only a handful of enemies at you at a time in order to avoid lawsuits over fatigue/injuries to appease the lazy gamers.
If they throw another Cave of Ordeals in this game (which they might since that seems to be the bone they throw for the "hardcore" oh wait WW had a section like that too, and that was before the hardcore/casual nonsense! haha) it'll be a pretty decent workout doing all those motions. I for one am NOT complaining and am actually looking forward to it because I love the way 'Resort handles, but I'm afraid Nintendo will "simplify" the controls in terms of just how often you'll have to swing your sword or aim your bow, etc.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 15, 2010, 09:47:58 PM
The series gameplay hasn't really evolved much since Ocarina of Time. I think that's my main concern with Skyward Sword. I'm concerned over how much Motion Plus will add to the game. I'm hoping a lot though the trailer didn't give me that impression.
Wait what? If anything the trailer showed that there's lots of potential to evolve the gameplay thanks to the ability to move the sword anywhere now. Combat can now become a lot more involving with way more depths. Being able to get into real sword fights and having to aim at certain body parts to defeat enemies now will definitely change things up quite a bit over what combat has been in all the other 3D Zelda's where you just block an enemies attack with your shield and then hit B after.
Of course we'll have to wait and see if Nintendo actually takes full advantage of what the new controls can do though. But right now, the Motion controls in the demo do show that there is quite a bit of potential with evolving the gameplay at least on the combat side with what they showed.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on June 15, 2010, 09:55:51 PM
Quote
Aouma said the new, exaggerated art style helps in this process. "If we had kept the Twilight Princess art style, we'd be done already!"
:faust:
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on June 15, 2010, 10:06:40 PM
Looking at the trailer again, the introductory environment looks a little too Outset Island 2.0 for me. More bugs/animals running around would go a long way to sprucing things up.
And it wouldn't hurt to streamline the items either. Is there a reason to have both a slingshot and a bow and arrow?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 15, 2010, 10:13:40 PM
The series gameplay hasn't really evolved much since Ocarina of Time. I think that's my main concern with Skyward Sword. I'm concerned over how much Motion Plus will add to the game. I'm hoping a lot though the trailer didn't give me that impression.
Wait what? If anything the trailer showed that there's lots of potential to evolve the gameplay thanks to the ability to move the sword anywhere now. Combat can now become a lot more involving with way more depths. Being able to get into real sword fights and having to aim at certain body parts to defeat enemies now will definitely change things up quite a bit over what combat has been in all the other 3D Zelda's where you just block an enemies attack with your shield and then hit B after.
Of course we'll have to wait and see if Nintendo actually takes full advantage of what the new controls can do though. But right now, the Motion controls in the demo do show that there is quite a bit of potential with evolving the gameplay at least on the combat side with what they showed.
Not just combat, the motion+ controls could add to the puzzles as well. I don't feel like writing up examples so everyone just use your imagination.
I feel like we don't really have to worry about this game NOT evolving gameplay. I think we'll have to worry about just HOW MUCH it'll evolve. For all we know we can still be stuck with the formulaic dungeons, pointless sidequest for rupees etc.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 15, 2010, 10:16:08 PM
Looking at the trailer again, the introductory environment looks a little too Outset Island 2.0 for me. More bugs/animals running around would go a long way to sprucing things up.
And it wouldn't hurt to streamline the items either. Is there a reason to have both a slingshot and a bow and arrow?
Maybe certain enemies will need to be stunned with the slingshot (more precision than a boomerang) as opposed to the arrows that have power to kill defeat enemies?
Then again, having a weapon you can't even defeat enemies with blows. Playing devils advocate sucks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on June 15, 2010, 10:18:40 PM
Go back to hell, devil. I'm tired of stunning enemies. I just want to stab them in the face and get it over with.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 15, 2010, 11:53:16 PM
get your crucifix or gtfo :P
at least i didn't mentioned Shadow of the Colossus
Title: Re: Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword Discussion
Post by: Kytim89 on June 15, 2010, 11:56:41 PM
I am finding the new art style a little hard to get used to. I really prefered the dark and drab look of Twilight Princess. Perhaps Nintendo will surprise us, but this game is too bright and lively for my tastes. But it is a good game and I will mosy likely buy it once it is released.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on June 16, 2010, 12:13:00 AM
Wait what? If anything the trailer showed that there's lots of potential to evolve the gameplay...
I kept saying the same thing about Twilight Princess until I played it. I'll reserve judgment. The trailer didn't wow me. My point is that I can't really see Motion Plus at work in the trailer. I can imagine how it might add depth to the gameplay, but right now, all I see is Link swing his sword like he did in Twilight Princess. I won't let myself get too excited about the game because the gameplay looks awfully familiar.
Also, maybe this is just me, but I feel like the Wii isn't powerful enough to evoke the Impressionist art style Nintendo is going for. I'm a big fan of Monet and Cezanne. I can see Nintendo trying. The hardware isn't powerful enough to really mimic the effect they want. Not that it's ugly, it's.... hard to explain.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on June 16, 2010, 01:17:43 AM
Looks great.
The gameplay is exactly what I was hoping for and expecting. It takes parts of Resort, combines them with a few new ones (whip and bug) and brings them into a Zelda game. Since I've used m+ and know what it can do it was obvious to me the stage demo really was interference.
The motion plus fighting is seen heavily in the small trailer. The moblin is blocking from different angles, the plants need to be cut according to their mouth, and he spins the sword to make the door dizzy. I also read that the big scorpion is defeated by the angle you slice at the open claws. This is a big new fighting gameplay addition.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 16, 2010, 01:22:33 AM
The biggest gameplay innovation is that this can make the combat in the game interesting, which I would argue it never really has been in Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 16, 2010, 01:36:14 AM
The biggest gameplay innovation is that this can make the combat in the game interesting, which I would argue it never really has been in Zelda.
aside from a few of the newer boss battles (particularly the recent DS titles) and the Darknuts from WW/TP, you're correct. No more HACK HACK HACK HACK RUNAWAY HACK HACK HACK RUNAWAY HACK HACK HACK WIN. I love it.
Know what I don't love? Youtube comments.. *sigh* I don't know why I continue reading them. There are people already flaming this game for not having a "dark story" because the graphics "look so happy-go-lucky" wtf?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 16, 2010, 01:44:40 AM
Okay, I wanna know how this is turning point in the series for Zelda. -_-
We got a new art style. Seen it.
We got motion controls. <-- If this is the turning point, then thats BS, that was an implied turning point in all of gaming when Wii was announced. I want to see NEW ZELDA. I realize that Spirit Tracks did this, and did a great job of it, but I want this for my console Zelda experience.
I need SURPRISES, I find myself most happy with 1-player games when I'm experiencing something I never have, which it seems like I've been experiencing a rather familiar Zelda since OOT.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on June 16, 2010, 02:34:44 AM
I don't know if its true so take it with a grain of salt but I read that this game starts on a sky island.
There are more things coming, don't worry.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on June 16, 2010, 02:36:10 AM
Exactly. TP, MC. Seen it already.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 16, 2010, 02:44:00 AM
On one hand I am glad they only showed one super familiar environment, because it leaves room for surprises. Only the other hand they only showed one super familiar environment. I love that I can actually see whats going on now in the game, I like brighter colors, but I really did expect it to wow me like Galaxy. I noticed in metriod the graphics were much better then what we saw last year, I hope this is true for Zelda when it releases.
I really expect some insane things to go on in this game, Link is going to fly no doubt about it and many nutty things will come with it. Just give us some major off the wall concepts and I think we will all be good.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on June 16, 2010, 02:51:22 AM
I watched the trailer again and it looks like your sword can shoot when you have full health like in the 2d games. When the sword is glowing it shoots of a spinning disc of energy when he attacks.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dasmos on June 16, 2010, 03:07:08 AM
Wow, the more screens I see the more I love the artsyle and I'm sure in the months to come it's just going to look better and better.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: MysticGohan on June 16, 2010, 03:10:43 AM
Yea it looks great, can't wait when it comes out, looks like Link lives in the clouds and evil is on the land below. I wonder who the evil started from? Interesting!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 16, 2010, 05:32:54 AM
I noticed in metriod the graphics were much better then what we saw last year, I hope this is true for Zelda when it releases.
This is the case with virtually all Nintendo games. A good example was last year when NSMBW was first shown, the E3 trailer and demo looked considerable worse then the final game that came out only 5 months later. It also happened several years ago with Metroid Prime 3. The trailers and demo's at E3 2006 lacked a lot of the texture and lighting effects that would later appear in the final version. Hell, even Twilight Princess had a huge graphical improvement from E3 2005 to E3 2006. If you go back and watch the trailers from both years, you can see that they added a lot more detail to the character models as well as more detail to the environments as well.
So anyone that's worried about the graphics right now shouldn't be since history has shown us that the final game will look a lot better. And for those that already love the graphics, your going to really love them when the final game comes out.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sundoulos on June 16, 2010, 09:43:38 AM
I don't mind the graphics; I mainly just want the narrative structure, characters, or something changed in some way. I loved Twilight Princess, and I'm generally a Zelda apologist, but even I have to admit that it hit too many of the same notes with OoT. I think the sameness really hit me when I saw the frozen Zora lake; it was cool and eerie, but it was just an updated version of what we had already seen.
Looks good, though. I'm excited!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 16, 2010, 01:30:56 PM
If Nintendo assumes that the controls are going to revolutionize Zelda, they're barking up the wrong tree. We might get some new cool items and the combat might be improved but if it's still 8 dungeons where you beat the boss with the item you got in the dungeon to collect the 8 thingies to defeat Gannon (or the enemy that is revealed to be Gannon) with the same lake and desert and forest in Hyrule, then it's nothing new really. To truly do something new they have to bust out of the formula. Don't be so rigid with the dungeons. Magora's Mask was the best shakeup because it only had four dungeons and a whole bunch of dungeon-like areas. In reality it was like you didn't know when you were in a dungeon or you weren't. It wasn't such a strict formula.
I think something more like Metroid would be an ideal shakeup. In Metroid it's like everything is one big dungeon. Though in Metroid there aren't any real "safe" areas like villages and there are no NPCs. Adding those to the Metroid design would be really cool. So you're just doing your thing and sometimes you're in a area where there are dangers and sometimes there aren't. Sometimes you stumble on a boss or an item. See that is something actually new and different with Zelda. I don't think Nintendo is approaching Zelda with that kind of out-of-the-box thinking. I think they've just got "motion control" tunnel vision. Hell the whole Wii is that kind of tunnel vision as they assumed that this new controller was the key to innovation in all their titles. The problem is that gives motion control WAY too much credit and it gives Nintendo's own devs too little credit in assuming that this control scheme is necessary to innovate.
The approach is totally wrong. It's the same approach that failed in Super Mario Sunshine (we just add this waterpack and we've revolutionized Mario!). Ocarina of Time with Wii Sports Resort controls is just being to be Ocarina of Time with Wii Sports Resort controls. These controls need to compliment something more substantial.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 16, 2010, 01:32:40 PM
I want to make something clear, what is in this demo isn't even a specific area in the real game is it? This was just a demo made in some forest to show of the controls? I just read Miyamoto said they just through something together for the demo.
From IGN
:03: In Zelda, is the HUD a work in progress, with the on-screen controller? It was designed and implemented for E3. Will it change? Yes. At E3 we're throwing a lot of things at you at once, and we made something for people to quickly understand. We've had HUD in past Zelda games, and you've always had the option to turn it off with a button.
7:06: Will Zelda have orchestral music and/or voice acting? We can't do what we did in Super Mario Galaxy 2 and not move forward and do the same thing in Zelda. We have people on staff looking forward to getting to work on that.
Never mind, after reading carefuly I see they were just talking about the HUD.
Can't wait for the music in this game. Everything we listened to so far was from a previous Zelda game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on June 16, 2010, 01:38:29 PM
I'm on the fence about Skyward Swords after this E3 demo. On the one hand, it's a visually pleasant game and it's more of the same Zelda gameplay we've enjoyed since Ocarina of Time. On the other hand, it's the same Zelda gameplay we've enjoyed since Ocarina of Time despite Nintendo's earlier claims otherwise, and so far it doesn't sound like the rigid Zelda structure is being messed with much. I just wonder by the time this game comes out if it won't have that "been there, done that" feeling to it. They also really need to tighten that sword animation up a bit, because (especially when Miyamoto was just wandering around waving the sword) it looks kind of stiff and unnatural. I'm hoping for the best, since Zelda is my favorite Nintendo franchise, but so far this game looks kind of disappointing.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 16, 2010, 01:50:37 PM
Ian after playing Red Steel 2 the beat em up has been completely revitalized for me, it really does immerse you and let you enjoy the game more. I really do think controlling the game this way will add allot. I don't think it will be enough however. But knowing that Link is born in the sky gives me hope that we will see all kinds of unique and interesting things.
Broodwars, don't watch Miyamoto, it was all messed up. I was with a Nintendo rep yesterday and he took away all the doubt I had. The way he rolled bombs, cracked the whip, and swung the sword was very satisfying to my eyes. Going to try and play it on Thursday, but I have no worries about how it will play.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 17, 2010, 05:54:26 PM
Not sure if its been posted but it terns out the game woulda been ready this year if Miyamoto didn't up-end the tea table again and made Aonuma and team rework the graphics..
Quote from: From N-Europe
Zelda director Eiji Aonuma has revealed Skyward Sword would be out this year, but for its new graphical style!
when first teased last year, a promotional image for Zelda: Skyward Sword showed the same "realistic" graphical approach seen in previous Zelda title, Twilight Princess - and according to ONM, Skyward Sword was indeed being worked upon with a view to keeping this style.
However top Nintendo designer Shigeru Miyamoto apparently up-ended the tea table once again by deciding a new graphical approach was best, hence the game's final "impressionist" art-style. Said Aonuma:
"Of course if I hadn't been told we had to re-do the art style then the game would already be done," Aonuma told us. "That being said we think there's a great relationship between the graphics and the gameplay. I think we will achieve a really great balance."
Link (http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=14149)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on June 17, 2010, 06:06:58 PM
They had to delay the game to make it look and animate worse less good as TP?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Louieturkey on June 17, 2010, 06:08:54 PM
So wait, it's not coming out this year now? All because Miyamoto wanted the cel shaded look back? While I like how it looks, couldn't he have requested that be done on the NEXT Zelda and not delay this one just to change the graphics look?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on June 17, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
While graphics may be the primary reason for the delay, it definitely allows the other development departments to improve/refine their respective contributions.
Now I'm speculating here, but it's very possible that Miyamoto didn't approve of Aonuma's 'finished' Zelda, and rather than publicly call him out on it, they used the opportunity fix the real issues while the visuals were revamped. For all we know Miyamoto might have planned this visual style for the next game, but now has the time to implement it for this one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 17, 2010, 07:07:15 PM
Quote
So wait, it's not coming out this year now? All because Miyamoto wanted the cel shaded look back? While I like how it looks, couldn't he have requested that be done on the NEXT Zelda and not delay this one just to change the graphics look?
DKC is already taking the Christmas 2010 slot. We know Nintendo isn't going to release both games around the same time for fear of them cutting into each other's sales and I agree with that logic. So you've got one or the other and if Miyamoto, for whatever reason, wants to give Zelda more time, might as well do it. I'm assuming DKC doesn't require the extra time and one of these games has to be delayed, might as well make it the one that Miyamoto wants to give more time to.
I hope it's delayed into the first half of 2010. If have to wait a whole year that better be for something more than graphics. I wasn't thrilled about waiting a year for Twilight Princess so they could get the waggle to work, particularly when I bought the Cube version anyway.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 17, 2010, 07:48:46 PM
So wait, it's not coming out this year now? All because Miyamoto wanted the cel shaded look back? While I like how it looks, couldn't he have requested that be done on the NEXT Zelda and not delay this one just to change the graphics look?
DKC is already taking the Christmas 2010 slot. We know Nintendo isn't going to release both games around the same time for fear of them cutting into each other's sales and I agree with that logic. So you've got one or the other and if Miyamoto, for whatever reason, wants to give Zelda more time, might as well do it. I'm assuming DKC doesn't require the extra time and one of these games has to be delayed, might as well make it the one that Miyamoto wants to give more time to.
I hope it's delayed into the first half of 2010. If have to wait a whole year that better be for something more than graphics. I wasn't thrilled about waiting a year for Twilight Princess so they could get the waggle to work, particularly when I bought the Cube version anyway.
That wasn't the reaction I expected..
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 18, 2010, 01:02:12 AM
After getting a nice amount of time into the game, I can really appreciate the motion controls and striking an enemy where they are supposed to be hit. The second time I played the calibration was off and the lady didn't seem to know what I was talking about so I just dealt with it. But the first time through I really enjoyed the ease of play, slashing the sword, rolling bombs and so on. I found my self wanting to make certain strikes such as a completely strait up verticle strike, but kept on doing 45 degree angle strikes. I then started looking at my hands, and thought "oh I'm swinging it wrong" so that instantly made me feel better about it.
I had a good time holding the remote upward or sideways ready to swing a flying slash or what not, I thought it played fantasticly! And the more I looked at the more I realized how pretty it was. My first glimps was a super huge blown up big screen, made it look really ugly.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 18, 2010, 07:53:24 AM
Nice impressions Cat', you're adding fuel to HYPE TRAIN on this one!
Random Thought: So I literally just finished watching the trailer for this game on my Wii which sadly displays video's better than my computer (too choppy) and my phone (can't make out details on the smaller screen) and I want to say two things:
- There's a really awkward animation at the start of the trialer when Link grabs his sword. It's like there's a missing frame because his fingers go from being open to clasped around the grip with no inbetween. I had to replay the video two or three times because something felt off about it, then I finally noticed that THIS was it. Makes you wonder if they just did a rush job on the trailer lol. I know I'm nitpicking, thats why I made sure to label this a "random thought"
- The game is much much prettier looking than I thought! First time I saw the video (phone) I wasn't feeling it. The second time (choppy computer) and through pics, I got to see the detail in the artstyle a little better and thought it looked nice. Now I think it looks AMAZING. I also got to see some things in the video I didn't notice before like the new camspy from perfect dark bug weapon, enemies blocking sword strikes with inteligance and Link moving his sword in a circular motion for the EyeDoor to follow its movement. COOL ****!
Seeing all this detail plus Cat's impressions area really pumpin me up for this one!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: johnny26 on June 18, 2010, 11:13:51 AM
Been a big fan of zelda hope to try this game...I know one thing, The graphics is great.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 18, 2010, 11:22:12 AM
So wait, it's not coming out this year now? All because Miyamoto wanted the cel shaded look back? While I like how it looks, couldn't he have requested that be done on the NEXT Zelda and not delay this one just to change the graphics look?
Nobody thought the game would be out this year, those who did were deluding themselves. All we had was 1 piece of artwork. The game wasn't delayed since Nintendo never announced a release date. All they are saying is that if they had kept Twilight Princess's graphics that they could have released it this year.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: mantidor on June 18, 2010, 11:40:36 AM
That's not true, Iwata specifically said it would be released this year.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 18, 2010, 12:10:40 PM
Do you get the feeling that working for Miyamoto is difficult with the constant tea table upending and such? As brilliant as Miyamoto is, it seems like he isn't particularly trusting of his employees. It's not fun to work for a boss you can never please.
But the games he is involved with always are of such high quality I'm not sure how you can totally criticize that. Making Rare put Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet is the only real questionable choice.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 18, 2010, 12:25:30 PM
Miyamoto is like a renegade cop. He doesn't always go by the book, and he plays by his own rules, but his superiors don't question it because he gets results.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: EasyCure on June 18, 2010, 02:17:27 PM
Miyamoto is like a renegade cop. He doesn't always go by the book, and he plays by his own rules, but his superiors don't question it because he gets results.
SHAFT!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 18, 2010, 08:45:47 PM
Do you get the feeling that working for Miyamoto is difficult with the constant tea table upending and such? As brilliant as Miyamoto is, it seems like he isn't particularly trusting of his employees. It's not fun to work for a boss you can never please.
But the games he is involved with always are of such high quality I'm not sure how you can totally criticize that. Making Rare put Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet is the only real questionable choice.
I remember reading something years ago that said during Mario 64's development Miyamoto was brutal to his team. Since there was a lot of pressure on making sure the game would be the big revolution for 3D gaming that it was hyped up to be, Miyamoto was said to be a mad man in development, forcing members to completely redo certain sections in only short periods of time over and over again until he was satisfied. After the game was done, apparently several people quit the company because they never wanted to work with Miyamoto ever again.
Of course like insanolord said, Miyamoto gets results. Mario 64 ended up being a revolution that pretty much created the modern 3D gaming industry so Miyamoto did succeed in the end.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 19, 2010, 02:19:02 AM
Miyamoto has produced some great games, but i wonder what its like to work with him. There may be a particular reason Yamauchi took a liking to him..they both are crazy bastards. Notice how unless Miyamoto isn't working on something it gets ignored, and im not sure if its because he just makes stuff of better quality or if he throws it under the bus. Miyamoto created Donkey Knong, which was really just a vehicle for Mario. I heard a story about how when Rare came out with DKC Yamauchi gave him a scolding about how their **** was way better, Result: Super Mario World 2. An antithesis in style to DKC. Ever since then Donkey Kong has been second tier for Nintendo. Also, notice that Gumpei Yokoi titles like Metroid and Kid Icarus get the 2nd tier treatment. I'm betting Miyamoto is the type of person who tries to dominate and seek attention.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on June 19, 2010, 03:57:44 AM
Do you get the feeling that working for Miyamoto is difficult with the constant tea table upending and such? As brilliant as Miyamoto is, it seems like he isn't particularly trusting of his employees. It's not fun to work for a boss you can never please.
But the games he is involved with always are of such high quality I'm not sure how you can totally criticize that. Making Rare put Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet is the only real questionable choice.
I remember reading something years ago that said during Mario 64's development Miyamoto was brutal to his team. Since there was a lot of pressure on making sure the game would be the big revolution for 3D gaming that it was hyped up to be, Miyamoto was said to be a mad man in development, forcing members to completely redo certain sections in only short periods of time over and over again until he was satisfied. After the game was done, apparently several people quit the company because they never wanted to work with Miyamoto ever again.
Of course like insanolord said, Miyamoto gets results. Mario 64 ended up being a revolution that pretty much created the modern 3D gaming industry so Miyamoto did succeed in the end.
We should have a whole thread devoted to this topic.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 19, 2010, 06:56:56 AM
Then start it. I wouldn't mind making it a rotating thread where we talk about different game creators and their personalities. One week it's Miyamoto, next it is Carmack, Cid Meyer or Mikami. We could also discuss the differences between iconic single developers and iconic studios. Why is it Blizzard and Valve are unified as a company versus someone like Miyamoto or Cid?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 19, 2010, 05:54:11 PM
I heard a story about how when Rare came out with DKC Yamauchi gave him a scolding about how their **** was way better, Result: Super Mario World 2. An antithesis in style to DKC. Ever since then Donkey Kong has been second tier for Nintendo.
This has already been addressed multiple times. After Donkey Kong Country was released and became one of the best selling games of all time, companies started copying the pre-rendered look. Miyamot worked on Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island and submitted it to the marketing department and they (not Yamauchi) said they wanted it to look more realistic like DKC. Instead of doing that, he went and made it even more cartoony looking. The marketing department ended up approving the new look.
As for second tier, I think Nintendo has just never cared all that much for it. The series had pretty much been dormant for years, then Rare asked if they could make a Donkey Kong game (with Yamauchi asking Miyamoto if he was OK with that, Miyamoto even ended up helping with some concept art). Once Rare left Nintendo pretty much relegated it back to B-level again.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on June 20, 2010, 10:36:05 AM
Every time I watch the Skyward Sword trailer, I find myself less and less impressed. As stupid as this sounds, it looks too Zelda. I feel like I've already played this game. It's the same way I felt when Wind Waker was released. The graphics are different, but the gameplay was largely familiar, even with the Motion Plus horizontal/vertical slashes. I know the game has a ways to go, but this has dropped significantly on my must-have list. Comparatively, I look at Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. It captures the essence of Castlevania while the gameplay looks almost nothing like previous games in the series. Granted, it's treated as a reboot and comes from a completely different developer halfway across the world. I'd love to see Nintendo give their baby to another (very capable) developer. I would nominate Retro Studios and give them free reign over the game. I'm sure I'm in the minority in this. I'd love to see some interesting, new ideas, not just Miyamoto supervising a bunch of American programmers into making the same game EAD could make.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 20, 2010, 03:16:10 PM
Comparatively, I look at Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. It captures the essence of Castlevania while the gameplay looks almost nothing like previous games in the series. Granted, it's treated as a reboot and comes from a completely different developer halfway across the world. I'd love to see Nintendo give their baby to another (very capable) developer.
Yeah, because they turned the game into a God of War clone. If Nintendo was to give Zelda to another company that's just going to turn it into something so totally different that it resembles another game series more, then they're be better off just creating a new IP with them instead.
I'd rather have Zelda games remain too Zelda instead of being turned into something that's Zelda in name only which is what the new Castlevania is. Just replace the main character in that game with Kratos and it could easily be called God of War 4.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 20, 2010, 07:31:13 PM
i know a game Nintendo should do that with :P
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Peachylala on June 20, 2010, 07:33:30 PM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 08:26:53 PM
Skyward Sword's art style was a little too cartoony for my tatses. I much prefered the visual style of Twilight Princess and was hoping that this newest title in the series would improve upon those visuals. Do not get me wrong, I am very impressed by what I saw, but I just want something different.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 20, 2010, 08:29:06 PM
Yeah, because they turned the game into a God of War clone. If Nintendo was to give Zelda to another company that's just going to turn it into something so totally different that it resembles another game series more, then they're be better off just creating a new IP with them instead.
I disagree. The term God of War clone is tossed around so often these days that it has almost lost its meaning. It seems like every 3D action game is just given that label. Sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't. I don't think Lords of Shadow deserves that branding as much as, say, Dante's Inferno does. From what I've seen, MercurySteam has done a wonderful job bringing something new to the table while creating a game that is undeniably Castlevania. As much as I enjoy Igarashi's Castlevania games, they're formulaic. There's a reason why his team was able to pump out a new game in a year, there's a lot of recycled content. While I enjoyed Order of Ecclesia, it edged dangerously close to tedium due, in part, to its predictability. Furthermore, the 3D games were just the 2D games with the camera behind the player which works, but doesn't work. I'm more than pleased with what David Cox and his team have done with Lords of Shadow especially since Koji Igarashi seemed to have trouble bringing the series to 3D without just moving the perspective.
That said, I think it's possible to offer something new in Zelda without destroying its identity. It's a fine line, but it can be done. I look at Skyward Sword and I see cel-shaded Twilight Princess. I almost don't care and I feel like the only reason I still care is because it's Zelda. After the travesty that was Spirit Tracks, I'm hoping for the return of Zelda in a big way, but not just the return of Twilight Princess, a game I only completed because I was already 80% through.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 20, 2010, 09:20:42 PM
I don't understand how you think you've seen enough info about the game to come to that conclusion. It may be what you think it is, but all we've seen is a trailer that's less than two minutes long and impressions of a gameplay demo designed to show off some of the things they did with Motion+.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 20, 2010, 11:21:28 PM
God of War is a Zelda clone....and i say this very looseley
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Halbred on June 21, 2010, 12:11:42 AM
Hilarious Possibility:
What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on June 21, 2010, 12:24:57 AM
What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?
World wide Zelda fan riot would result.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on June 21, 2010, 12:38:37 AM
I don't understand how you think you've seen enough info about the game to come to that conclusion. It may be what you think it is, but all we've seen is a trailer that's less than two minutes long and impressions of a gameplay demo designed to show off some of the things they did with Motion+.
There are these things called "first impressions." Also....
I kept saying the same thing about Twilight Princess until I played it. I'll reserve judgment. The trailer didn't wow me. My point is that I can't really see Motion Plus at work in the trailer. I can imagine how it might add depth to the gameplay, but right now, all I see is Link swing his sword like he did in Twilight Princess. I won't let myself get too excited about the game because the gameplay looks awfully familiar.
I'm not writing Skyward Sword off, especially considering I've already acknowledged that the game is still early. I'm just not that excited for it based on what I've seen so far. Maybe I will be, I don't know. Right now, though, what they showed off still looked like Twilight Princess. So be it. There are other games that I'm far more excited for. I'll tell you what though, if Skyward Sword ends up wowing me in the end (I mean, when it comes out and I beat the game), I owe you a coke.
What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?
If you played as Zelda, I think people would dig it. I remember when that Twilight Princess art piece was released of Zelda holding a sword. I was excited at the prospect. Zelda and her magic would certainly spice things up. Sadly, no.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 21, 2010, 01:29:31 AM
heheh, oh you mean majora's mask? :P
for a brief time you got control of a character named Kaffei, which i thought should get his own game just for that reason..haha i remember making jokes about Belda, where its pretty much the same thing but the character has blue hair. Fans really love Zelda gameplay, but what they hate is that dungeons start to become repetative. The paradigm is a level based on an element..like fire, water, leaf. This gets old..what Nintendo should do is varying architectural styles of dungeons. Greek, Asian, Egyptian, Meso-american, Gothic. Thats what i would do.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 21, 2010, 01:15:07 PM
Skyward Sword will be "too Zelda" if it's the standard 8 dungeon formula and you get the same items and visit the same areas. The problem with a long running series is that initially it's establishing itself but eventually it goes in the opposite direction and the new entries follow the template the original games created. It gets to the point where it's all appealling to fan familiarity and nostalgia and at that point the series has become irrelevant. If Nintendo wants to truly do something different they can't be thinking "so when should Link get the hookshot?" and "at what point should he meet the Gorons?"
I think to make a Zelda game all you need is Link armed with a sword and shield having an adventure in a fantasy world. The world is interconnected instead of level based and interaction with the environment is all in real time. If you start with just that then you've got a Zelda game. Now just do whatever the hell you want. You don't have to include Zelda, the Triforce, Death Mountain or anything else. That's the mistake devs make that results in stale cookie-cutter sequels.
If anything I would make a conscious effort to not stick with Zelda conventions beyond those barebone requirements. Though I figure they'll just rely on the new controls to keep things fresh.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: stevey on June 21, 2010, 01:19:00 PM
What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?
Depends, it would be awesome if this new character is a redheaded cowgirl, secretly Zelda (Tetra), or a female Link....
Otherwise :ph:
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 21, 2010, 06:21:05 PM
Zelda needs giant monster battles
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 21, 2010, 06:55:05 PM
You don't have to include Zelda, the Triforce, Death Mountain or anything else.
The game is titled The Legend of Zelda, so it kind of does need Zelda. And her legend is the Triforce, so it needs that, too. Everything else, though, is fair game, it doesn't even need Ganon.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 21, 2010, 06:57:22 PM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 21, 2010, 07:15:10 PM
Quote
The game is titled The Legend of Zelda, so it kind of does need Zelda. And her legend is the Triforce, so it needs that, too.
Link's Awakening doesn't have Zelda or the Triforce. Majora's Mask doesn't have those either. They are quite optional.
At the very least they don't have to be so structured with the rescuing Zelda stuff. A character named "Zelda" just has to have a significant enough involvement in the story for the name to make sense. Hell the "Legend of Zelda" could just be a historical myth referenced in the game and no character named Zelda ever makes an appearance.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 21, 2010, 07:55:15 PM
i meant more like power rangers...but that works too
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 22, 2010, 03:35:10 PM
You don't have to include Zelda, the Triforce, Death Mountain or anything else.
The game is titled The Legend of Zelda, so it kind of does need Zelda.
Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on June 22, 2010, 06:31:04 PM
You guys are already bitching about the progression of the game? Something that we know nothing about? Figures....
Can we at least agree that Link's M+ abilities are well done? There hasn't been one complaint by the gaming community about how it controls from those that actually have played it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 22, 2010, 06:35:44 PM
Link's Awakening doesn't have Zelda or the Triforce. Majora's Mask doesn't have those either.
And those games weren't as good as other Zelda games. Might there be a connection?
Sorry UncleBob...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on June 22, 2010, 06:39:03 PM
Mop it up...you're opening a can of worms.
Zelda, Ganon, and the Triforce have never been what LOZ was about. That was just the story line. It's like what Bowser and Peach are to Mario. The real meat of the game was always the gameplay, and how you interacted with the world. Having them present doesn't automatically make it better or worse. What I have a problem with is the set design that has you go from dungeon to dungeon, finding an item and then using that to defeat the boss. I wish I had to use a majority of my items to kill the boss. And I also wish that dungeons were more organic in that there really isn't an entrance way.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2010, 07:55:09 PM
iv always wanted them to experiment with non linearity
i mentioned my idea for a rival in a game, where they are out collecting things just like you, and there may be redundant dungeons, and redundant ways to get into a dungeon so that things can become more about choices.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 22, 2010, 08:02:51 PM
I find it funny that people would have any particular attachment to characters from the Zelda series when the storylines and character development has been total elementary school level fluff since day one. If you play any EAD game for the storyline and characters you have LOW standards of storytelling. I play their games for the enjoyable gameplay and have always viewed the trappings as just a setting to play in. So the specifics of those trappings can be changed since the gameplay was the draw to begin with.
I don't even need it to star Link or be called "Legend of Zelda". If Nintendo wanted to make a Zelda-style game in a completely different setting I would have no problem with it and would love it the same as Zelda if the quality was the same. But I'm smart enough to know that the Zelda name is a strong brand and that not having Link would be too radical of a change for most fans.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 22, 2010, 08:05:46 PM
Zelda games follow a formula because that formula makes it Zelda. If they are going to change things up and have radically different settings and conventions, that game should not be a part of the Zelda series. If that's what you want, you don't want Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 22, 2010, 08:16:07 PM
But is it wrong to want to see a series grow and evolve? We want to see the formula mixed up some. People want to hear new albums from their favorite artists, but does that mean they want a "First Album 2.0"? some bands have been chastised for this. Linkin Park's Meteora was called Hybrid Theory 2.0 by many critics. We constantly want to hear a band evolve it's musical style. To hear something similar but new. Zelda, in many people's minds, has been remastering and remixing their last major hit with a "FEAT. guest artist" attached to the project. Is it wrong for people to want to see the series evolve and grow like a great band does?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 22, 2010, 08:20:26 PM
Zelda's tried to change and all the fans do is complain. Zelda II, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, the two DS games... these games are all harshly criticize by many. It seems pretty clear to me that fans DON'T want change.
And this game is evolving. It looks to have the most expansive and intricate combat system of any Zelda, which can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2010, 08:27:42 PM
what he is saying is Zelda gameplay does not need a Hyrule setting. You could set Zelda anywhere and anytime and have the same game mechanics and it would be the same game. If link had black hair instead of blond hair and it still played the same, or if he wore red instead of green(that does happen though). There is a lot you can change about something without changing the core fun game mechanical elements. Like for instance i have been dreaming up this machrider idea
replace link with mach rider replace epona with a motorcycle replace his sword with a baseball bat replace dungenons with warehouses and abandoned facilities replace his hookshot with a chain replace his bow with a plasma gun replace hyrule with a deserted city replace lizfos and stalfos with cannibals and morlocks different music keep tingle the same
Cosmetically the game would looks completely different, but the mechanics would still operate the same way. He'd still push blocks, ride things, attack things with some sort of blugenoning melee weapon, hed still be able to climb up things with some sort of chain device, he'd still be able to shoot things, there would still be racing mini games, shooting mini games, puzzle solving, etc.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 22, 2010, 08:37:30 PM
It doesn't have to be Hyrule, but Zelda wouldn't be Zelda without a medieval setting. And, really, if they're going to make all those changes... why not make it a new series?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2010, 08:47:30 PM
exactly, the thing is Zelda fans want Zelda gameplay. It doesn't have to be Zelda though.
Still all Nintendo needs to do is work out how people get into dungeons, what dungeons look like. They can't be the same predictable locales..that really is the only complaint most people have. I don't hear much complaint about gameplay. It is mostly Locales and Characterization. Like i was saying before..drop the elemental idea of levels. We have played the fire temple, water temple, and Forrest temples many many times. A change in theme will go a long way. They also might want to adjust how you get items, for the longest time you got an item which allowed you to enter a previously un-accessible dungeon (no doubt you were directed there earlier in the game by it in a teasing), and then while your in that dungeon you earn another item from possibly a miniboss or someone closeby the area of the dungeon and this gets you to the next dungeon. The boss is always defeatable by your new item...its kinda formulaic. There has to be a more complex version of gated access.
good articles and breakdowns http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20061128/lopez_01.shtml http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24488
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on June 22, 2010, 09:01:23 PM
The only components that need to stay, for me, are the triforce and Link - the ultimate power and the hero to save it. The game shouldn't be tangential like MM. Give me an evil character out to get the power of the triforce, and a kingdom full enemies trying to kill me. Throw in dungeons, heart containers, and rupees. Call it Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2010, 09:15:16 PM
iv also wondered what if they switched metroid and zelda's time period
samus in a medieval world link in a future world
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 23, 2010, 02:12:37 AM
I'm surprised no ones mentioned this news yet since it's a rather big deal. In an interview with IGN last week, Aonuma revealed who the director of Skyward Sword is. It turns out Hidemaro Fujibayashi is the director which is should interest some people since this is the same guy who directed Oracle of Ages and Seasons as well as Minish Cap.
After Capcom closed down Flagship, Nintendo hired him and now he'll be directing his first 3D Zelda. Some of you might want to take this into account when talking the Zelda formula and what you'd like to see.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Spinnzilla on June 23, 2010, 02:16:00 AM
I'm surprised no ones mentioned this news yet since it's a rather big deal. In an interview with IGN last week, Aonuma revealed who the director of Skyward Sword is. It turns out Hidemaro Fujibayashi is the director which is should interest some people since this is the same guy who directed Oracle of Ages and Seasons as well as Minish Cap.
After Capcom closed down Flagship, Nintendo hired him and now he'll be directing his first 3D Zelda. Some of you might want to take this into account when talking the Zelda formula and what you'd like to see.
The 3 games I never played! So I should be pleasantly surprised right?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 23, 2010, 03:44:04 AM
I'm surprised no ones mentioned this news yet since it's a rather big deal. In an interview with IGN last week, Aonuma revealed who the director of Skyward Sword is. It turns out Hidemaro Fujibayashi is the director which is should interest some people since this is the same guy who directed Oracle of Ages and Seasons as well as Minish Cap.
After Capcom closed down Flagship, Nintendo hired him and now he'll be directing his first 3D Zelda. Some of you might want to take this into account when talking the Zelda formula and what you'd like to see.
Hmm played a little of Seasons when my nephew brought it over. Got stuck in an area.Other 2 I haven't played.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 23, 2010, 03:57:35 AM
Seasons and Ages are my favorite 2D Zeldas. This makes me happy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on June 23, 2010, 04:29:53 AM
iv also wondered what if they switched metroid and zelda's time period
samus in a medieval world link in a future world
both would be Final Fantasy.
how would both be final fantasy?....you wouldn't constantly talk to stupid fucking people and then as soon as you walk outside go through annoying ass turn based battles every time you take two steps. The level design would definitely be more then winding corridors that's only puzzle elements are a few switches. I wouldn't have a party of people casting stupid ass ridiculous cut scene spells.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 23, 2010, 04:46:42 AM
Link's Awakening doesn't have Zelda or the Triforce. Majora's Mask doesn't have those either.
And those games weren't as good as other Zelda games. Might there be a connection?
Sorry UncleBob...
More like sorry Stratos! Those are my two favorite Zelda games... :'(
Then I'm sorry but you have bad taste.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on June 23, 2010, 04:50:33 AM
Majora's Mask was a great game...anyone who says otherwise is wrong IMO
and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caliban on June 23, 2010, 07:29:49 AM
Quote
Hidemaro Fujibayashi
Ganbatte!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 23, 2010, 08:09:48 AM
Link's Awakening is an amazing game, easily my second-favorite Zelda.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on June 23, 2010, 12:38:03 PM
Quote
It doesn't have to be Hyrule, but Zelda wouldn't be Zelda without a medieval setting. And, really, if they're going to make all those changes... why not make it a new series?
If they're going to go to that level then, yeah, might as well make it a new series. But even then a medieval fantasy setting is very broad and open to creativity. You don't have to stick the game in Hyrule, make Ganon the bad guy, have Zelda kidnapped at some point, and have Link visiit Lake Hylia and the Lost Woods and Karkariko Village and Death Mountain, and get a bow and hookshot and boomerang and the Master Sword. A videogame series is going to have some sort of formula but this is TOO formulaic. This is like watching a TV show where every episode is the same.
Zelda has a large enough fanbase that whether you change things up or do everything the same there is going to be lots of bitching from somebody. Therefore it's up to Nintendo to make the decision that's better for the series and I think it's better for the series to maintain a level of originality and creativity as becoming stale and formulaic will kill off the sales potential of the series quicker. Zelda will remain an elite franchise longer if fans still feel that every game is essential. Otherwise it's like Bomberman. Do you think anyone but the most hardcore borderline insane fan would have every Bomberman game? The series is so formulaic that people just get *a* Bomberman game to have one. But with Zelda, it's normal to have every game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 23, 2010, 04:51:00 PM
For everyone complaining about about the setting and storyline, you people do realize Aonuma has already said what the basic storyline is. The Link in this game lives on on an island in the sky called Skyloft and when it turns out the land below is being taken over by some evil force, Link goes down there to save it. Throughout the game Link must travel back and forth between Skyloft and the land below using the Skyward Sword which will later become the Master Sword.
Well it's pretty obvious that Hyrule is the land below that Link has to save, but it sounds like this Skyloft is going to be a pretty big place as well. So it's already been confirmed that a pretty big portion of the game is going to be a completely new area for the Zelda series.
Plus the fact that the game is pretty much telling the story of the Master Sword means we'll probably have a different villain from Ganon as well. Unless they make the storyline like the Terminator and have Ganon go back in time and try to take over Hyrule and stop the Master Sword from ever being created so he'd never lose in the future. Of course if he never loses in the future, then he'd never have a reason to go back in time which would.......... *Universe Implodes*
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on June 23, 2010, 05:04:05 PM
I apologize for my last post, I was not in a good mood at the time.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on July 01, 2010, 01:50:36 AM
IGN posted a video breaking down the trailer. Very interesting to stop and look at everything. 2 environments in particular stood out more due to them just pausing so much. I think its worth a look, right in the wii homepage.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on July 07, 2010, 06:11:40 AM
After watching the breakdown, I'm not as hyped as I once was.
Weird. :\
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on July 07, 2010, 11:20:58 AM
As long as this new Zelda has a type of "Okami" feel to it, then I'll be good to go.
And by that, I mean a seamless transition from overworld to dungeon areas -- and vice versa. Every single bit of Okami felt organic in the sense that all of the different parts of the world were truly connected. I never felt that with OoT, MM, WW, or even TP (and I LOVED TP). A Link to the Past was the last time I felt that with a Zelda game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: SixthAngel on July 07, 2010, 11:43:09 AM
And by that, I mean a seamless transition from overworld to dungeon areas -- and vice versa. Every single bit of Okami felt organic in the sense that all of the different parts of the world were truly connected.
Except everytime you fought somebody because they stuck you in a magical barrier.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on July 07, 2010, 12:20:23 PM
And by that, I mean a seamless transition from overworld to dungeon areas -- and vice versa. Every single bit of Okami felt organic in the sense that all of the different parts of the world were truly connected.
Except everytime you fought somebody because they stuck you in a magical barrier.
I don't recall fighting enemies in OoT or even WW in a mile-wide radius. Sheesh. That "magical barrier" wasn't a big restraint.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on July 07, 2010, 12:25:40 PM
I keep reading many of you state how you want these seamless transitions into dungeons. Dungeons that feel extremely connected to the outside world. I just don't get it, maybe it is one of those small touches that need to be played to be appreciated, but I really don't see how that change much of anything. Anyone care to explain?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on July 07, 2010, 12:38:50 PM
Probably the big thing environmentally I'd like to see is the end of the obvious tree rooms the 3D Zeldas like to call "forests", especially after playing Alan Wake which did forests so believably. I'm fine with dungeons being distinct from the rest of the game world, but it really kills me in a Zelda game to walk into a forest entryway; see the fade to black; and then when the environment loads see that you have an extremely small playable environment with cardboard "trees" just outside the playing area. Now, I'm not sure if the Wii could handle larger environments like that. Alan Wake pulled it off by having very carefully-constructed environments with smart use of obstructions; cliffs; and fog to hide the technical limitations. Maybe Zelda could do something similar?
Hell, for that matter I'd like to have a Zelda where I could go from one end of the overworld to the other without having to walk through 3-4 obvious loading screens, but I suppose Wind Waker spoiled me on that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on July 07, 2010, 01:15:12 PM
I keep reading many of you state how you want these seamless transitions into dungeons. Dungeons that feel extremely connected to the outside world. I just don't get it, maybe it is one of those small touches that need to be played to be appreciated, but I really don't see how that change much of anything. Anyone care to explain?
Here's what I think: after playing 3 or 4 Zeldas, people are starting to wonder why these dungeons are even built in the first place? Who put them there? Aren't dungeons basically prisons? So why is there treasure hidden so carefully in each one? Why is there a boss guarding everything? This kind of stuff is really videogamey when you think about it, and the plot has been so focused on the triforce that other OZS's (obligatory Zelda staples) are left to the imagination for too long.
Someone tell me where I'm wrong.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on July 07, 2010, 02:08:38 PM
I think you're absolutely right.
I just keep thinking about Okami and the whole mystical huge tree "dungeon" area, and how it's seamlessly integrated into the outlying land. I didn't even realize I was in a "dungeon" type area until almost 3/4s of the way through it!
I also want to see the items used all throughout the world... not just a couple of times in a dungeon/temple area. I remember in ALttP how I'd go around bashing in enemies using the Cane of Somaria or even the Bombos medallion to kill all enemies on screen... the sword was almost secondary to me because of how I could use each of the items. I miss that about Zelda games!
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on July 07, 2010, 02:43:06 PM
Quote
I keep reading many of you state how you want these seamless transitions into dungeons. Dungeons that feel extremely connected to the outside world. I just don't get it, maybe it is one of those small touches that need to be played to be appreciated, but I really don't see how that change much of anything. Anyone care to explain?
To me Zelda has become very formulaic. Part of that is the rigid structure of the gameplay. You go into a dungeon, you find a new item, you use the item on the boss, you leave the dungeon and use the item to open up a new area, you perform some side-quest in the new area, you go to a new dungeon, and the whole thing repeats.
If you have seamless transitions from the outside world to the dungeon or areas that are dungeon-like but are not so specifically a dungeon you break from the rigid structure. Same with items found in other areas. I think what people are looking for is some way to make Zelda feel fresh and ditching the formulaic design of it is an obvious way to do it. As long as you have one big interconnected world, non-linear progression, and the ability to interact with the world in realtime, you've got Zelda. With that very basic definition the developers have a lot of freedom.
But instead we'll probably get fire dungeon, ice dungeon, water dungeon, forest dungeon, etc. I actually find myself thinking of ways to change up the formula of other Nintendo franchises as well. Most of them are pretty old now and don't offer many surprises. The challenge is in changing the game enough to feel fresh while still feeling like part of the franchise. I think the way to do that is to narrow down the game to only its most core elements. With Zelda, Nintendo's definition is very specific and that's why it's getting stale.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on July 07, 2010, 03:43:24 PM
Epic Yarn has some changes to what the formula is and hopefully it is a sign of what is to come.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on July 07, 2010, 03:47:01 PM
Obviously they havent shown it off, but Link is going to hover with his sword.
Aonuma talks about a flying Link like 2 years ago, the game is called skyward sword.....
Oh, I would love that. Link, ala Marty McFly with his hoverboard, using the power of the Skyward Sword (or the sword itself) to fly or hover around. Sorta reminiscent of the spinner from TP. I'm totally down with that idea, man.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on July 07, 2010, 04:01:00 PM
oh lol riding his sword like a hover board, i didn't even think of that! That would be pretty awesome, no i just figured you raise your sword in the air you start floating all Peter Pan like. My idea sounded really fairy
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on July 07, 2010, 04:09:35 PM
Oh, I would love that. Link, ala Marty McFly with his hoverboard, using the power of the Skyward Sword (or the sword itself) to fly or hover around. Sorta reminiscent of the spinner from TP. I'm totally down with that idea, man.
That'd never happen, because that would be "cool" and Nintendo doesn't do "cool" in that sense unless it's Funky Kong. ;) I find it extremely unlikely given Nintendo's past games that we'll have freeform flight. What we'll probably see are pads or markers or something in the game world where Link can hold up his sword, pixie dust or something fills the screen, and Link will have temporary flight capability via wings ala Kid Icarus. Having Link able to fly anywhere at any time would prevent Nintendo from cutting many corners on object design (see: Twilight Princess' pathetic Hyrule Castle Town), since you could conceivably see an object from nearly any angle.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on July 07, 2010, 04:10:52 PM
Yeah I remember that interview, since then I was convinced Link would take flight in this game. Born in the sky? Skyward sword? How could anyone not take the biggest hint known to man? By that I mean I wonder how people are not getting excited about the potential super different flying gameplay?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on July 07, 2010, 04:11:31 PM
Oh, I would love that. Link, ala Marty McFly with his hoverboard, using the power of the Skyward Sword (or the sword itself) to fly or hover around. Sorta reminiscent of the spinner from TP. I'm totally down with that idea, man.
That'd never happen, because that would be "cool" and Nintendo doesn't do "cool" in that sense unless it's Funky Kong. ;) I find it extremely unlikely given Nintendo's past games that we'll have freeform flight. What we'll probably see are pads or markers or something in the game world where Link can hold up his sword, pixie dust or something fills the screen, and Link will have temporary flight capability via wings ala Kid Icarus. Having Link able to fly anywhere at any time would prevent Nintendo from cutting many corners on object design (see: Twilight Princess' pathetic Hyrule Castle Town), since you could conceivably see an object from nearly any angle.
Lately I'm inklined to believe Nintendo would do it to be cool. The way Link attacked bosses in TP screamed an attempt to be "cool" along with the cut scenes and actual motion capture. Remember how he jumped on the Dragon's back or that Eel fish thing? It was like they wanted to appeal to that God of War type audience with all the hacking away.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on July 07, 2010, 05:06:54 PM
mastersword chick seems Wingy, maybe if she hasn't been cut from the game you hold onto her feet and she does a Owl sort of carry, more like mario 64 then ocarina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wb9kmI4dlQ
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on July 07, 2010, 05:56:59 PM
Flying in Super Mario 64 was really cool and I've always wondered why Nintendo has not really done that since. There was a little bit of it in Super Mario Galaxy but nothing else. To me that seems like an ideal way to change the game. But broodwars is probably right. Super Mario 64 is level based. They didn't have to worry about you being able to fly anywhere. No flight cap = no flight. But Zelda is one big world and items are permanent. So they have to take into account your ability to fly anywhere in the entire game. That's too much work for them. I'll admit it also would be difficult to design puzzles that prevent access if you can just fly over everything.
Doesn't this new Zelda have a jump button? Platforming elements could add a lot to the game. I used to get pissed off when people complained about no jump button because the game design was such that you didn't need a jump button (it was the original Metroid Prime FPS closemindedness). But if you're going to put a jump button in, well, you might as well make it so the game needs one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on July 07, 2010, 06:37:07 PM
I'd welcome a jump button, but not heavy platforming. It changes Link's repertoire of attacks which ultimately leads to more varied gameplay. I don't expect Link to become Dante or Kratos, but being able to downward thrust any time for example (as opposed to as a finisher like in Twilight Princess) would certainly pique my interest. I trust Nintendo enough to add this to Zelda without complicating the game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on July 08, 2010, 01:08:54 AM
Then didn't add a jump button, they added a dashing run.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caterkiller on July 08, 2010, 01:12:55 AM
One thing is that Link can actually run (faster) at any time, I believe when holding A. I always wanted something like that, I wonder how that could affect the game. Just reminds me of the way classic 2D games do it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stogi on July 08, 2010, 01:14:05 AM
I could see some prince of persia type gameplay where you have to dash through swinging blades or along a wall.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on July 08, 2010, 02:01:57 AM
Weren't the dash boots how we did it in old 2D Zeldas?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on July 08, 2010, 02:29:12 AM
yeah i always pressed a to roll and pretended like it made me go faster, and if it did it was marginally
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2010, 12:35:47 PM
Quote
One thing is that Link can actually run (faster) at any time, I believe when holding A. I always wanted something like that, I wonder how that could affect the game. Just reminds me of the way classic 2D games do it.
Like Perm I often roll everywhere out of impatience. Running doesn't need to specifically affect gameplay, it would just be nice to have. When you're on foot and are just trying to get from point A to point B Link usually feels slow as hell and it would be nice to have some way to go faster. Most of the time the speed is fine but not when you're cutting across country.
Though it would be nice if they designed a world where I don't HAVE to cut across country. Having a big empty field in the middle of the map is pretty lame design to begin with.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on July 08, 2010, 12:53:32 PM
I still stand by the notion that I'd love to see Link control/handle like Nathan Drake from Uncharted 2. I'd love to see a more agile Link that can swing from vines to cross deep chasms, or climb large platforms in conjunction with the whip or hookshot.
That's all I could think about while playing Uncharted 2...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on July 08, 2010, 01:05:31 PM
Hey guys, I'm sorry I don't run fast enough sometimes. I live on a farm and there's not much need for me to run around swinging a sword all day and carrying 10 different items on my back that are only useful in the dungeon they were found inand cutting down grass in hopes that I can get enough rupees for a new tunic, but I promise the next time I get word that the King of Evil is planning on plunging Hyrule into darkness and overtaking the Light World I will begin some cross-country training with the mailman. Again, sorry for inconveniencing your game experience.
--Link
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on July 08, 2010, 05:02:49 PM
The 3D Zeldas have the horse as their faster means of travel across the overworld, although it couldn't be used in most towns and other such areas. The running boots are one item which have yet to be featured in a 3D Zelda game, and I think that would be a fun and useful addition. The Roc's Feather, which enabled Link to jump, is another possibility, if they wanted that to be more specialized instead of a basic function.
It'd also be neat to see the seed shooter from Oracle of Ages in a 3D game. It could ricochet shots off of walls, so it would be a fun gadget in 3D space.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on July 08, 2010, 05:05:13 PM
It'd also be neat to see the seed shooter from Oracle of Ages in a 3D game. It could ricochet shots off of walls, so it would be a fun gadget in 3D space.
The Seed Shooter should replace the otherwise-useless slingshot. Seriously, that thing is only ever used in one dungeon, and is then quickly replaced by the Bow. Having a weapon that can rebound off walls to reach targets gives the thing some puzzle-solving purpose after getting the Bow.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on July 08, 2010, 08:07:27 PM
We could earn an upgrade for the slingshot that gives it the rebounding shots ability.
Though in this Zelda there is a separate use for both slingshot and bow. Bow controls like WS Resort; slingshot just needs the IR pointer and a simple button press. So slingshot is good for z-targeting enemies and taking them out quickly while the bow is more for precision shots.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on July 08, 2010, 10:37:20 PM
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 22, 2010, 11:21:06 AM
Well in the newest issue of Offical Nintendo Magazine Aonuma confirms that Skyward Swords takes place before OOT and that there is a offical Zelda timeline.Only him,Miyamoto, and the director of the title gets to see the document.
So since this takes place before OOT can we expect some kind of origin story for the Master Sword. Also what about Ganondorf will we see him as he tries to find the Triforce for the first time. Many questions...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on July 22, 2010, 12:52:07 PM
I read a really good article over at Zelda Universe detailing a possible theory regarding the creation of the Master Sword and the race that created it. I'll see about pulling that up a little later on.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 22, 2010, 01:22:29 PM
So since this takes place before OOT can we expect some kind of origin story for the Master Sword.
This part has already been confirmed. Aonuma said in an E3 interview that the Skyward Sword will eventually turn into the Master Sword at some point during the game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on July 22, 2010, 02:04:27 PM
If the sword is being sent from the sky people, shouldn't it be called Groundward Sword?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on July 22, 2010, 02:10:17 PM
So since this takes place before OOT can we expect some kind of origin story for the Master Sword.
This part has already been confirmed. Aonuma said in an E3 interview that the Skyward Sword will eventually turn into the Master Sword at some point during the game.
I really hope this game dives deeper into the lore of Hyrule. Seems that the control/gameplay has been developed to its fullest extent... what with OoT being the inception of this style of Zelda... hopefully this will bring us a deeper Zelda in terms of story. With that said, I'd like to see the full creation of the Master Sword along with whatever world it is down below Skyloft (which obviously has to be Hyrule.. it's just not in the current state that we see it in games such as OoT or TP). I also hope we discover more about the race that created the Skyward Sword and everything to go along with it.
And here's the link I promised from my previous post... http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-legendary-puzzle-a-linear-history-of-the-master-sword/#more-15884 (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-legendary-puzzle-a-linear-history-of-the-master-sword/#more-15884) I'd like to see these theories come true.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on July 23, 2010, 06:37:29 AM
Some interesting theories there. Though I dont remember Aonuma confirming the 'split timeline' theory. I thought that was all solely ideas from fans.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 23, 2010, 09:49:30 AM
A interview with the Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream is what led to some fans believing that Aonuma supports the split-timeline theory:
Quote
When does Twilight Princess take place?
Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.
–And the Wind Waker?
Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on July 23, 2010, 11:36:41 AM
As crazy as it seems, I love how you really can piece all of the games together in a timeline. Sure, you may have to stretch a bit or two to make things link together, but they fit really well.
I love the theory of the Oocca from TP being a de-evolved form of race that might have created the Master Sword. We'll soon find out, now won't we? :)
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on July 23, 2010, 04:09:59 PM
I actually predicted on the Bioware forum that the next Zelda game, which is Skyward Sword, would have a hybrid of Twilight Princess graphics and Wind Waker graphics put together. I also predicted that the game would be in third person like the older titles, but you would swing your wiimote like a sword and the motion plus would translate into into motion on the screen. I also said that you would be able to throw bombs like the bowling ball on wii sports. Was I right?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on July 24, 2010, 03:57:01 PM
those were all things Aonuma and Miyamoto talked about doing at one point or another.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on July 24, 2010, 07:52:14 PM
those were all things Aonuma and Miyamoto talked about doing at one point or another.
And half of the internets as well.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on July 25, 2010, 12:49:53 PM
Does it really matter if the games belong on a timeline? They barely reference each other. That's kind of the point of the games existing in some chronological order. Some of the games can easily be placed in a timeline, some can't, and some don't matter. I kind of feel like it doesn't really matter because each game is its own story and none of them really rely on another game for pertinent background information.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 25, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Actually, the console games reference each other a lot, especially The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (especially how the whole world had to be flooded after the "Hero of Time" abandoned Hyrule). Most of the Zelda games reference at least one other Zelda game, so it's nice to try and figure out how they all relate to each other.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on July 25, 2010, 05:12:19 PM
Define "a lot." Understanding the plot of The Wind Waker is not contingent upon understanding the plot of Ocarina of Time. There's one reoccurring character and even then, The Wind Waker tells you enough about Ganondorf so that playing through Ocarina of Time isn't necessary, especially since Ocarina of Time didn't really tell players too, too much about Ganondorf in the first place. There are certainly connections between games, but the plots are more or less self-contained. For comparison's sake, watching Back to the Future Part III before the first 2 parts totally messes with the experience, even with the introductory recaps. Those movies are self-referential in a major way. Not so much with Zelda. I used to try to organize the series into a coherent timeline and there are a few that make sense. However, it's a mess quite frankly and even though a master timeline exists within the walls of Nintendo, it doesn't really affect the games too much.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on July 25, 2010, 06:08:03 PM
I always thought of the Moblins as the uruk-hai of the Zelda universe.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: nickmitch on July 25, 2010, 07:06:17 PM
Define "a lot." Understanding the plot of The Wind Waker is not contingent upon understanding the plot of Ocarina of Time. There's one reoccurring character and even then, The Wind Waker tells you enough about Ganondorf so that playing through Ocarina of Time isn't necessary, especially since Ocarina of Time didn't really tell players too, too much about Ganondorf in the first place. There are certainly connections between games, but the plots are more or less self-contained. For comparison's sake, watching Back to the Future Part III before the first 2 parts totally messes with the experience, even with the introductory recaps. Those movies are self-referential in a major way. Not so much with Zelda. I used to try to organize the series into a coherent timeline and there are a few that make sense. However, it's a mess quite frankly and even though a master timeline exists within the walls of Nintendo, it doesn't really affect the games too much.
Playing OoT enhances the experienc of playing WW, even if WW's plot still works without playing it. Throughout the game, the "mystical" characters are looking for the Hero of Time that disappeared. The stories may be self contained, but that's just because Nintendo did a good job of giving you enough info for WW's story to make sense on it's own. The two games are still very much connected story wise.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on July 26, 2010, 04:41:16 AM
For whatever reason, I thought that Twilight Princess was going to explain what happened to the Hero of Time. It would be pretty cool to see some game that explained what happened regarding that. I know that some explain it with Link disappearing back to his original time, but I want a full blown game telling us what happened.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on July 26, 2010, 11:53:23 AM
The golden Knight/wolf in Twilight Princess is implied to be the Hero of Time.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 26, 2010, 12:13:47 PM
That is just speculation by some fans though, they never say that in the game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on July 26, 2010, 12:43:09 PM
That is just speculation by some fans though, they never say that in the game.
There are subtle hints though.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 26, 2010, 12:54:58 PM
True. I do think it is possible, I was just clarifying (partially for those here who may not have played the game or haven't in a while) that the game doesn't actually say that. The Zelda Wiki even talks about this and says how every hint could be explained both to support and to oppose the theory.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on July 26, 2010, 05:36:12 PM
It would seem things like that are intentionally left up to the interpretation of the player. I think I remember reading somewhere how Miyamoto likes to leave certain things up to the imagination of players. I personally don't mind it, but for those who want Zelda to be more story-driven, they may not appreciate that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on July 28, 2010, 11:12:25 PM
The Hero of Time disappeared when he got stuck in the Soul Calibur Universe. Ok, so that isn't canon.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: nickmitch on July 29, 2010, 04:20:29 AM
That's how he learned all those sword moves to teach TP Link.
Title: Link to remain silent
Post by: Caterkiller on August 15, 2010, 04:55:55 PM
I had a theory a while back that the game would have voice acting because Charles Martinet wanted to voice Link. I figured there was a casting call for all characters but Link and he wanted in on it. Guess that was wrong.
There has been a few debates up among Zelda fans on whether Link should finally talk after remaining mute throughout the entire Zelda series. Whether it be to advance the series or develop the character some more. But when talking about the subject to Nintendo Power, Aonuma stated, "Personally, I don't want to have Link speak in the game. We haven't had him talk at all up to this point. It's part of the series history. It would just, to me, break the image of Link to have him speak." Aonuma also talked a bit about whether other characters within the title should have voices and to keep Link mute, but even this he feels wouldn't work out for him as he feels, "...if Link never talks and everybody else in the game is chatting and whatnot I also think that's sort of an off mixture, so it's not something that, to be honest, I've really thought I want to be superactive about..."
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on August 15, 2010, 06:25:53 PM
Nintendo is still treating Link as just an avatar for the player, but they have done too much with Link's personality at this point where it's not the same thing anymore. Link reacts to plot events and forms bonds with certain characters. That's Nintendo projecting emotion onto the player, rather than the player projecting his/her emotion onto Link, the player's in-game representative, as the story unfolds. Ocarina of Time was probably the first game to start doing this, but it was still the most transparent of the later Zelda games in this regard. By the time Twilight Princess came along, I felt like I was almost being told who, in the game, I should be growing more attached to. For example, I, as the player, formed a bond with Saria early in the game (the scene where Link leaves the forest for the first time still gets me). I was legitimately sad at times so I think Link as an avatar worked really well there. I felt like that was me feeling that, partially because Link shows no emotion so I felt what I felt almost entirely on my own. Alternatively, in Twilight Princess, Link is reacting and interacting with characters like Ilia and Midna. I don't feel like that's my bond with these characters anymore. I thought Midna was a pretty awesome character and there's clearly something going on between Link and Midna, but that's their story, not mine.
Not that that's a bad thing. It's not. My point is that Nintendo has made Link into his own character without officially making him his own character. I don't think they really understand why Link was mute to begin with anymore. They're kind of caught between trying to make Zelda more cinematic and keeping it in line with what it was in the beginning. The result is muddled. That said, in future installments of the series, Link either needs to develop a deeper personality with his own emotions, desires etc. (along with a voice) or Nintendo has to go back and re-evaluate why Link was simply an avatar of the player. I'm personally okay with either. I think it could work one way or another, just not with trying to be both at the same time.
Title: Re: Link to remain silent
Post by: broodwars on August 15, 2010, 09:50:30 PM
I had a theory a while back that the game would have voice acting because Charles Martinet wanted to voice Link. I figured there was a casting call for all characters but Link and he wanted in on it. Guess that was wrong.
There has been a few debates up among Zelda fans on whether Link should finally talk after remaining mute throughout the entire Zelda series. Whether it be to advance the series or develop the character some more. But when talking about the subject to Nintendo Power, Aonuma stated, "Personally, I don't want to have Link speak in the game. We haven't had him talk at all up to this point. It's part of the series history. It would just, to me, break the image of Link to have him speak." Aonuma also talked a bit about whether other characters within the title should have voices and to keep Link mute, but even this he feels wouldn't work out for him as he feels, "...if Link never talks and everybody else in the game is chatting and whatnot I also think that's sort of an off mixture, so it's not something that, to be honest, I've really thought I want to be superactive about..."
Typical Nintendo. "If we've never done it before, there's no reason we should do it now...even if it would make the franchise better." Sorry, but after playing games like Mass Effect or whatnot where your main character talks (and Shepard, like Link, is just an avatar for the player who embodies their decisions and preferences) it really will be inexcusable to me if at least the NPCs in the new Zelda don't have voice acting. I can tolerate Link being a Silent Protagonist if it's done well, but at least give me voice acting on the major Non-playable characters...preferably voice actors not cast by Nintendo themselves. *eyes Metroid: Other M* It's true that Bad Voice Acting can really make an experience worse, but Great Voice Acting can take the storytelling and immersion of a game to a whole new level.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: King of Twitch on August 15, 2010, 10:10:09 PM
What in Nintendo's 120-year history makes one think that Zelda will/could have voice acting that's 'great'?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on August 15, 2010, 10:24:21 PM
What in Nintendo's 120-year history makes one think that Zelda will/could have voice acting that's 'great'?
Baten Kaitos Origins, a game they published but outsourced the voice acting to another company. It had great voice acting.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on August 15, 2010, 10:25:20 PM
Link doesn't talk for the same reason Charlie Chaplin's Tramp isn't supposed to talk. In Chaplin Robert Downey Jr. does a pretty good speech explaining why The Tramp is never supposed to talk.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Stratos on August 16, 2010, 05:05:13 AM
It would seem things like that are intentionally left up to the interpretation of the player. I think I remember reading somewhere how Miyamoto likes to leave certain things up to the imagination of players. I personally don't mind it, but for those who want Zelda to be more story-driven, they may not appreciate that.
I read that too. He still doesn't consider Mario to be a plumber. That was totally an outside inspiration and he likes it that way because Mario is who people want him to be in their minds.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on August 16, 2010, 12:20:16 PM
The thing is with Nintendo there is a reputation for being cheapskates. Having Link be silent makes sense and most fans want him to remain so but not having voice acting for anyone else really sounds more like Nintendo cheaping out. It seems like quite the coincidence that having no voice acting for anyone at all would save money. Let's put it this way. If it was more expensive to not have voice acting do you think Nintendo would keep Zelda as is for artistic purposes?
Personally I don't see the difference between everyone talking with a voice except Link and everyone having written dialog except Link. Everyone talks in Zelda, it's just that we read the text. Meanwhile Link is all "..." or just giving little yes/no answers to simple questions. It's a little weird no matter what. I think Nintendo is just cheaping out and this is their excuse. Call it an unfair assumption if you want but Nintendo created the reputation of being cheapasses themselves.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on August 16, 2010, 05:58:36 PM
this is why there is no voice acting in zelda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHw5g55oC4
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Morari on August 16, 2010, 06:11:38 PM
Can't we just let Bethesda make the next Zelda game? I'd buy that.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Sarail on August 16, 2010, 07:27:16 PM
Can't we just let Bethesda make the next Zelda game? I'd buy that.
I'd rather Retro Studios take it over after DKC:Returns is finished. They already cloned OoT's control scheme in Metroid Prime...so they've definitely got a feel for it. I just think they're art style capabilities would be a godsend for the series if Retro took hold.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on August 16, 2010, 07:55:04 PM
I like the Retro Studios suggestion. Swapping series between Nintendo devs might be a good way to freshen up the series. There is the risk of a team just not getting the series and making an inferior game. But I'm not talking giving Star Fox to Namco here. I'm talking like the big Nintendo teams that can be trusted to deliver the goods. EAD, IS and Retro are all exceptionally talented so I would trust either of them with an unfamiliar franchise.
How about IS takes on Donkey Kong, Retro takes on Zelda, and let's see EAD tackle Fire Emblem. I'll bet THAT would be interesting.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Guitar Smasher on August 16, 2010, 09:31:13 PM
I like the Retro Studios suggestion. Swapping series between Nintendo devs might be a good way to freshen up the series. There is the risk of a team just not getting the series and making an inferior game. But I'm not talking giving Star Fox to Namco here. I'm talking like the big Nintendo teams that can be trusted to deliver the goods. EAD, IS and Retro are all exceptionally talented so I would trust either of them with an unfamiliar franchise.
How about IS takes on Donkey Kong, Retro takes on Zelda, and let's see EAD tackle Fire Emblem. I'll bet THAT would be interesting.
I thought you wanted original games?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Kytim89 on August 16, 2010, 09:36:31 PM
Here is my dream LoZ game:
It would be developed for the wii 2 and would support high definition graphics.
It would be developed by a collaboration between Team Ninja and Aonuma's development team. Team Ninja would focus on graphics and intense action while Aonuma focuses on creativity.
Link would be in his early to middle twenties.
Moblines would return and the combat would be fiercer with sword play.
Ganon would transform into a pig demon, but this time he would be bipedal and would have a character model similar to the demons of Ninja Gaiden.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on August 16, 2010, 09:38:22 PM
It would be developed for the wii 2 and would support high definition graphics.
It would be developed by a collaboration between Team Ninja and Aonuma's development team. Team Ninja would focus on graphics and intense action while Aonuma focuses on creativity.
Link would be in his early to middle twenties.
Moblines would return and the combat would be fiercer with sword play.
Ganon would transform into a pig demon, but this time he would be bipedal and would have a character model similar to the demons of Ninja Gaiden.
The last thing we need is a Zelda game that plays like Ninja Gaiden. Besides, let's see if Team Ninja could even churn out a competent Metroid game before we start wishing for them to work on even more projects with Nintendo franchises.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on August 16, 2010, 09:53:40 PM
how many people play the Zelda series and just don't get it?
some of these suggestions just make me cringe, they don't have these things for a reason.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on August 16, 2010, 10:51:30 PM
I've never really been a fan of voices in games. I like to read the text and imagine what that character would sound like, and this is usually quite different than voices they choose. To me, it would just be weird to hear Link's voice (beyond the unintelligible exclamations when swinging the sword), because I've already envisioned it so many different ways in each game. To have it locked down to one specific voice would just be weird, especially if I felt it didn't fit.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Armak88 on August 16, 2010, 11:06:06 PM
I used to enjoy JRPG's until voice acting. I can't handle that every person is either a 12 year old or a chain smoker.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on August 16, 2010, 11:17:50 PM
I've really enjoyed the inclusion of voice acting into my games, especially in ones like the Mass Effect games where it really does help elevate the game to an incredibly cinematic experience. I've been playing games for over 20 years now, and if I wanted to read reams of text I'd pick up a book. Games are a visual and auditory medium, and having to spend hours reading (usually clumsily-written) dialogue just bores me after a while. There's partially why these days that when I play a JRPG I just ignore NPCs that don't look important (and why I only read about half the Secondary sections of the Mass Effect Codex): I just don't care, and having to read a couple paragraphs of text that don't matter and I don't care about...from people I don't care about just wears on me. Voice acting helps make that much more bearable and pleasing, since it's much more passive. I can just listen to the conversation.
I understand the point of view that people like having their own voices in their heads for the characters in their games, as I once had similar feelings about books. For instance, I love the Harry Potter and the Lord of the Rings books, but after listening to Jim Dale's masterful performance of the former in the audiobooks and the BBC's incredible radio drama version of the latter, I just listen to those these days. To me, immersing yourself in the performance just adds that certain something to the experience that's hard to replicate with just reading. It's partially why I enjoy listening to old 1930s/1940s radio dramas as well.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 16, 2010, 11:31:04 PM
Voice acting is hard/expensive to get right, and I'd rather have no voice acting than bad voice acting.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on August 16, 2010, 11:49:06 PM
Voice acting is hard/expensive to get right, and I'd rather have no voice acting than bad voice acting.
And that's the attitude that usually leads to experiences never evolving and becoming better: "well, I'd rather have none than take a chance and possibly get a bad result." I'd rather have Nintendo actually experiment with a real effort at incorporating the best voice acting they can manage and fail than never try and always get the same predictable result that we've had for decades now. Maybe they incorporate Voice Acting into the next Zelda and it's just as bad as Arc Rise Fantasia's, a result so putrid it becomes the stuff of internet memes for years to come. But then, perhaps Nintendo learns from their mistake and actually assigns a budget and a competent voice director to the next one. Perhaps the next one is better and they improve from there, and so on. We'll never know unless they actually make the effort to try, and as long as Nintendo fans are content to always get the same experiences they've always had they never will.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 16, 2010, 11:59:28 PM
If Nintendo did voice acting and people hated it, their response wouldn't be to do it better next time; they'd just stop doing it at all. Bad voice acting can ruin a game, and since I never cared much about it in the first place I'd rather they not do it. This isn't Star Fox 64; "so bad it's good" doesn't work for Zelda. I suppose if they put in subtitles and gave the option in the menus to mute the voices without muting the rest of the game it would be fine by me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on August 17, 2010, 12:02:02 AM
I suppose if they put in subtitles and gave the option in the menus to mute the voices without muting the rest of the game it would be fine by me.
That's a reasonable compromise. I'm always in favor of giving the player choice in how they enjoy their games. If you want to enjoy the game with all text, you have an option that allows you to do so. If you want to enjoy your game with voiced dialogue, that option's there too. Everyone's happy.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on August 17, 2010, 12:10:20 AM
I'm glad Tales of Symphonia had an option to turn off the voices, the acting in that game was like a Saturday morning cartoon. Though this caused a problem with a few cutscenes where the text scrolls automatically, and it would go through it too fast to catch it all.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 17, 2010, 02:42:50 AM
My dream Zelda game is the one that becomes the new best one the series.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on August 17, 2010, 02:59:26 AM
likes the above post
the thing with Zelda is...its an old series with traditions. I know Nintendo doesn't like to make new series' but thats the only way I can see some of these things becoming included with Nintendo games. I don't like a lot of voice acting, and this is mainly because voice acting is rarely up to par.
also this is the problem i see considering Nintendo is a Japanese company
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtd8-PxX8vc
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Caliban on August 17, 2010, 12:05:19 PM
When it comes to voice acting I don't think we can equally compare the Japanese with the North-American just yet. In Japan it's an industry of professionals, a competitive industry that has been in existence for many years. In North-America you either have the "Hollywood" Actors or Actresses do the job (mostly video games), and then you have the long standing these voice actors/actresses that to my eyes can only be seen as amateurs because they have no competition in the anime industry that they dwell in mostly, and so they see no means to improve themselves.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on August 17, 2010, 12:12:18 PM
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If Nintendo did voice acting and people hated it, their response wouldn't be to do it better next time; they'd just stop doing it at all.
Well that would just put us back where we are now so what difference does it make? At least with this we get a chance they could do it right.
I find voice acting is a lot like story in a game. I don't dislike stories in my games but I dislike BAD stories. The problem is a lot of videogame stories are bad. They come across as poor fanfiction written by people who want to make movies but lack the talent to do so.
I dislike BAD voice acting. That doesn't mean voice acting is bad. And aside from poor acting, there is a direct relation with the quality of the story itself. If the dialog is **** having someone act it out for me makes it all the more painful to sit through.
But if you have decent dialog and decent acting and the storyline isn't batshit retarded then voice acting works really well. Nintendo actually has a pretty good translation team. The dialog in the Mario & Luigi games for example is pretty funny and sharp. Having that dialog acted by professionals and not the Nintendo mailroom staff would probably be pretty good. Nintendo also has the advantage that, though their stories are not very impressive, they keep their stories simple and straightforward so they avoid a lot of the melodramatic teenage angst that other Japanese games have.
Zelda's dialog is probably going to be a decent translation. Zelda's story is probably going to pretty cliche and uninteresting but certainly not outright embarrassing. If they hired decent actors they could probably pull it off.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 17, 2010, 12:21:28 PM
Nintendo's translations are great; I'd argue the Treehouse group is consistently the best localization team in the business. Bad voice acting would tarnish their excellent work.
The thing here is that Nintendo doesn't want to put voice acting in Zelda. Even if it were free and easy, everything we've heard from Aonuma and Miyamoto seems to indicate they still wouldn't want it. It's something they don't want to do from a creative perspective, and on top of that would be costly and time-consuming to get right, and that adds up to be something that has very little chance of happening.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Deguello on August 17, 2010, 01:59:59 PM
Zelda and voice acting just don't mix for reasons both internal and external to Nintendo.
As insanolord mentioned, this is just an artistic decision for Nintendo. It helps that it's economical too, but Zelda games actually have quite long voice credits these days. The fact that they are limited to "exclamations" and "flavor sounds" is purely a creative decision.
Another reason is that Zelda actually has quite a bad history with voice acting. I mean just go listen to the CD-I stuff. That would be enough to turn anybody involved with the creation of future Zelda games away from voice acting forever.
Lastly, is that this is Zelda, one of the most revered game series in the history of games. The bar is set so high that it could not feasibly be passed in one try, and if they fail badly, fans won't suffer their repeated attempts to get it right. For an example of this, look at the industrial-strength bitching about the new Metroid's voice acting, which is actually pretty average to above-average as far as games go, but because it's a long revered Nintendo series, anything less than perfection is a stab in the heart. Hell, look at how many people still kvetch about Mario's voice, 14 years later.
I also second insanolord's immense praise for the Treehouse. Considering the amazing amount of variety in games they localize, that they can find ways to differentiate by tone, period, mood, and age level is truly magnificent and they are definitely not appreciated enough for it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 17, 2010, 02:33:07 PM
Another reason is that Zelda actually has quite a bad history with voice acting. I mean just go listen to the CD-I stuff. That would be enough to turn anybody involved with the creation of future Zelda games away from voice acting forever.
You'd have to be an idiot to think that the CD-I games are an indication of ANYTHING AT ALL involving Zelda, Nintendo, or video games in general.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Deguello on August 17, 2010, 02:54:42 PM
I don't think I was saying Nintendo made them. If anything it was a godsend that the CD-i was a major flop or else those three games' (THREE) taint might have ruined Zelda forever. But rather that their example is probably remembered by Nintendo as a rather stark warning that bad voice acting ruins everything, even decidedly mediocre games like the Zelda CD-I games. Hell what's the one thing anybody remembers about them? The goofy cutscenes and horrible voices.
BTW, please don't call me an idiot, or infer I am one.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on August 17, 2010, 03:01:04 PM
I get the idea that if Nintendo doesn't totally nail it with voice acting, fans will bitch. But fans bitched about the Wind Waker's visuals too. If they don't get the motion controls right in Skyward Sword, fans will bitch. This is a risk of changing anything or adding anything to the series and I think that sort of risk just has to be taken at certain points or things will stagnate (which will bring out a different form of bitching.)
The thing is will not-quite-perfect voice acting irritate fans enough to effect sales? Realistically that is the true risk, isn't it? I didn't like Wind Waker's look but I still bought Phantom Hourglass which has the same look. However I hated Phantom Hourglass's controls and did not buy Spirit Tracks because it had the same controls. One thing I didn't like lost them a sale and the other was not severe enough to. And those are the stakes they have to take into account if a new idea is not well received. I don't think voice acting would lose too many future sales so I think it's an acceptable risk.
Nintendo may very well consider this an artistic decision. I just personally don't believe them because they don't carry the same artistic credibility with me that they used to. You can't release quick cash-in spinoffs like Link's Crossbow Training and then talk about artistic integrity of the Zelda series. It's already too late. If you're willing to recycle assets from Twilight Princess to make a spin-off for a quick buck then you're willing to not have voice acting to save a few bucks. Nintendo has already demonstrated that Zelda is just a product name to them. If they want the series to be "sacred" again they have to work to reestablish that reputation.
Though unlike the IGN guys I'm not going to give two shits if Zelda has voice acting or not. I don't think it's essential, I just don't think the concept should be banished from Zelda forever.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: broodwars on August 17, 2010, 03:06:28 PM
I don't think I was saying Nintendo made them. If anything it was a godsend that the CD-i was a major flop or else those three games' (THREE) taint might have ruined Zelda forever. But rather that their example is probably remembered by Nintendo as a rather stark warning that bad voice acting ruins everything, even decidedly mediocre games like the Zelda CD-I games. Hell what's the one thing anybody remembers about them? The goofy cutscenes and horrible voices.
So because another company (Phillips) made 3 terrible Zelda games that featured terrible animated cutscenes and terrible voices (and terrible game design), that means that Nintendo should just throw out the idea of doing any kind of voice acting altogether? That makes absolutely no sense, unless you're advocating that Nintendo is normally in favor of having really terrible production values whenever possible. It's like arguing that Nintendo should never have let Retro do Metroid Prime because First Person Platforming didn't work in Turok: the Dinosaur Hunter. Bad elements of games get made fun of all the time. The reason everyone remembers the CD-I Zelda games for those terrible production values is because they're the ones most easily visible on YouTube (that, as well as the Angry Video Game Nerd's videos), and yet despite how terrible those games were the franchise went on to do Ocarina of Time and still has a huge fanbase.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 17, 2010, 03:10:27 PM
BTW, please don't call me an idiot, or infer I am one.
Its Dirk, he comes in on occasional and calls people dumb. Its been that way for years. Take it like a man, I like to read it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Deguello on August 17, 2010, 03:21:11 PM
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You can't release quick cash-in spinoffs like Link's Crossbow Training and then talk about artistic integrity of the Zelda series. It's already too late.
If this is the metric for what's artistic I'd imagine the list of truly artistic games is quite small, as you can find spinoffs and cash-ins for everything. But since said spinoff has absolutely nothing to to with this game, it's pretty much immaterial and yes Nintendo can still make creative decisions about a game despite having released another game which subjectively may or may not have creative designs (as it was a software pack-in for a peripheral), so this point is pretty much moot.
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I don't think voice acting would lose too many future sales so I think it's an acceptable risk.
Well if it's that unimportant, why bother? And how come the position is that it wouldn't "lose too many sales?" If it's going to lose them any sales, why in the world would they ever want to? Shouldn't they want to sell more?
Edit:
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So because another company (Phillips) made 3 terrible Zelda games
Hey, Zelda's Zelda. All those low-information Zelda fans in 1994 who really didn't follow the whole games scene would think the series went bat****, especially after three straight games of this crap. Thankfully they died quiet and obscure deaths, but just imagine if Nintendo themselves tried this sort of voice acting 3 times in 7 years, starting with Skyward Sword. It would absolutely destroy the series.
Quote
The reason everyone remembers the CD-I Zelda games for those terrible production values is because they're the ones most easily visible on YouTube (that, as well as the Angry Video Game Nerd's videos), and yet despite how terrible those games were the franchise went on to do Ocarina of Time and still has a huge fanbase.
As far as I know Youtube didn't exist in 1998, and these games remained very, very obscure and almost mythical until the mid-2000s. Part of the reason that Ocarina of Time did so well was because for all of the fans, that was the next Zelda game after LttP. Now imagine the three CD-i games were released in between. How would Ocarina of Time have fared then? Would interest in Zelda have even survived?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on August 17, 2010, 04:28:19 PM
Zelda Cd-i isn't an example of Nintendo doing bad voice acting, its just an example of what it could be.
If they did include voice acting, the first thing i could imagine is that the Japanese voice acting would be decent and the English voice acting would be terrible. Not only that, there probably wouldn't be a choice to switch it. Remember Nintendo always leaves out some painfully obvious things. Nintendo America has no backbone, and it seems never argues and doesn't even offers much of an advisory standpoint. Hell, id imagine Nintendo would send over an advisor from Japan and have him audition the voice actors, and not even give NoA any say.
Speaking of voice choices, i always liked Charles Martinet as Mario, but excluding his...Super Mario Sunshines voices suck. Listening to F.L.U.D. and Bowser is terrible. Bowser sounds like he should be the voice of an eagle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOgR3GOplVY&feature=fvw skip to 3:15, 7:50
interesting the top comment from 3 months ago, and its not from me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Ian Sane on August 17, 2010, 04:53:06 PM
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If this is the metric for what's artistic I'd imagine the list of truly artistic games is quite small, as you can find spinoffs and cash-ins for everything. But since said spinoff has absolutely nothing to to with this game, it's pretty much immaterial and yes Nintendo can still make creative decisions about a game despite having released another game which subjectively may or may not have creative designs (as it was a software pack-in for a peripheral), so this point is pretty much moot.
I'm just saying when Nintendo says they're not going to do something for artistic reasons that coincidently will save them money, I don't believe them. That's all it is. I just personally don't believe them.
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Well if it's that unimportant, why bother? And how come the position is that it wouldn't "lose too many sales?" If it's going to lose them any sales, why in the world would they ever want to? Shouldn't they want to sell more?
You're taking the wording too literally. I mean that the odds of losing any sales due to poor voice acting is probably nill. It's like if I said "I don't think there are too many dinosaurs in New York City."
It's hard to imagine what the impact of the CD-i Zeldas would have been in a different age. Back then there were a lot of obscure consoles like the CD-i, 3DO or Jaguar that you knew about if you read gamings mags but it seemed like no one owned one. We don't have that now. It isn't like if a Zelda game was made by Sony on a legal technicality, released on the PS3, and sucked. I think that would hurt the Zelda brand but the PS3 is everywhere despite being the last place console. There are no modern day equivalents of systems like the CD-i.
The weakening of a brand based on an "unofficial" sequel is something that is only going to affect the mainstream. Gamers who pay attention to this stuff, and know that Nintendo doesn't make every game on the Wii, know what developer does what and would know that any Zelda made under the circumstances of the CD-i games would have no effect on the quality of the next "real" Zelda. But the mainstream would never have known about something like the CD-i in the first place. The N-Gage is the closest thing we've had in recent years. I figure if Nokia, due to a loophole, made a piss poor Zelda game for the N-Gage it would have had no effect because anyone who actually knew what an N-Gage was would have been knowledgable enough to know that Nintendo didn't make it.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Adrock on August 17, 2010, 06:43:20 PM
All this talk of poor voice acting is ultimately moot. Any company can have quality voice acting in their games, even Nintendo. You need a reasonable budget and a voice/casting director who gives a damn. It's quite easy to spot a terrible actor. A good director already knows actors who can perform and are passionate about their profession. They don't even need to be name actors either. Take someone like David Hayter. He's a good actor. He consistently plays Solid Snake and could demand a larger paycheck but he doesn't because he's passionate about the material. He gave up part of his paycheck so Konami could re-record the dialog in the Twin Snakes.
It's not really a matter of whether Nintendo could have good voice acting in Zelda games. Rather, it's whether they're willing to go the extra mile. All indications point to no since Nintendo historically favors greater profit margins. Voice acting would make Zelda games more engaging, especially if Nintendo would hire some writers to pen a coherent plot, but it wouldn't help the games sell any better which is ultimately the bottomline. Nintendo knows we're all going to buy the game anyway so long as the gameplay is solid. It's Zelda, it's a multi-million seller as soon as they announce the game.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Mop it up on August 17, 2010, 08:27:28 PM
Part of the reason that Ocarina of Time did so well was because for all of the fans, that was the next Zelda game after LttP.
They could've played Link's Awakening on Game Boy. This doesn't change your point, but still, Link's Awakening needs more recognition!
And Awakening is one of the best Zeldas for me.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: Deguello on August 18, 2010, 04:02:04 AM
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I get the idea that if Nintendo doesn't totally nail it with voice acting, fans will bitch. But fans bitched about the Wind Waker's visuals too. If they don't get the motion controls right in Skyward Sword, fans will bitch. This is a risk of changing anything or adding anything to the series and I think that sort of risk just has to be taken at certain points or things will stagnate (which will bring out a different form of bitching.)
Recently, video game anthropologists have recently discovered a third way to bitch about video game innovation within game series. They found that certain peoples decried the changes to a series, not for ruining the series or for being poor, but that the change did not result into an entirely new IP. Modern anthropologists are puzzled as to the motives of these peoples, as such a position was truly bizarre, even in their times.
By the way, Nintendo has actually used voice acting in an artistic way that added to the game. The EAD team specifically wanted voice in Starfox 64 because it would allow the game to relay information to the player without them having to read the words at the bottom of the screen. (Taking their eye off the action.) And this is possibly why there are so many fond memories of Starfox 64's voice acting. Because in that game, they served the purpose of notification of enemy locations and hints and such.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on August 18, 2010, 05:34:15 AM
yeah true, leave voice acting to Starfox, actually Starfox could be the best series if treated right....Retro?
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: balzzzy on August 25, 2010, 11:20:28 PM
Random Zelda fan appreciation moment, brought to you with tesla coils, light sabers and...balloons?? Check this link (http://gamewad.com/zelda-theme-using-2-tesla-coils-5474-p.html) out.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: balzzzy on August 25, 2010, 11:23:22 PM
And this is possibly why there are so many fond memories of Starfox 64's voice acting. Because in that game, they served the purpose of notification of enemy locations and hints and such.
Ummm...Slippy's whining REALLY stands out as well in that game. Often I would shoot him down first to avoid listening to him.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: ThePerm on August 26, 2010, 06:46:49 PM
And this is possibly why there are so many fond memories of Starfox 64's voice acting. Because in that game, they served the purpose of notification of enemy locations and hints and such.
Ummm...Slippy's whining REALLY stands out as well in that game. Often I would shoot him down first to avoid listening to him.
and thats exactly what they wanted you to do
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 26, 2010, 07:40:11 PM
That's why they made it so you only see the boss health gauge if he's alive. There's no incentive to keep Peppy and Falco alive beyond the added firepower; they have to give you a good reason not to let Slippy die.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: balzzzy on August 26, 2010, 09:17:52 PM
That's why they made it so you only see the boss health gauge if he's alive. There's no incentive to keep Peppy and Falco alive beyond the added firepower; they have to give you a good reason not to let Slippy die.
When I was a kid we didn't have health bars, we just kept on shooting. They should have left him on Titania (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUrZaEjvrWA), lol.
Title: Re: New Wii Zelda
Post by: BeautifulShy on September 01, 2010, 02:05:53 PM
Hmm...using the brightness of Link's sword to find treasure...limited stamina meter for climbing/running. Some of this kind of reminds me a little of Shadow of the Colossus.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Renny on September 01, 2010, 06:59:48 PM
Hmm...using the brightness of Link's sword to find treasure...limited stamina meter for climbing/running. Some of this kind of reminds me a little of Shadow of the Colossus.
I thought the same. It'll be interesting to see these elements at work in a more expanded game than Shadow of the Colossus, especially in regards to puzzles. SotC leaves you wanting more - but maybe for the better, when the alternative is to allow the exploration to become tedious.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 01, 2010, 07:42:05 PM
If the split time line theory is correct, then Twilight Princess would exsist in an alternate time line from Wind Waker, right? This would be that Midna, Zant and the Twili must all exsist in the Wind Waker series, right?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 01, 2010, 08:12:12 PM
If the split time line theory is correct, then Twilight Princess would exsist in an alternate time line from Wind Waker, right? This would be that Midna, Zant and the Twili must all exsist in the Wind Waker series, right?
Depends on whether the destruction of Hyrule in the events predating Wind Waker also destroyed the Twilight Realm.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 01, 2010, 08:40:04 PM
If the split time line theory is correct, then Twilight Princess would exsist in an alternate time line from Wind Waker, right? This would be that Midna, Zant and the Twili must all exsist in the Wind Waker series, right?
Depends on whether the destruction of Hyrule in the events predating Wind Waker also destroyed the Twilight Realm.
What I was saying is that we could see the return of Zant and Midna in the Wind Waker series in cel-shaded form. Also, here is a nice video that talks about the time line of the series, but it leaves out Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on September 03, 2010, 02:01:14 PM
I'm of the "there is no timeline" camp. It's like... zen fandom.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 03, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
Except there is a official timeline, so you are of the "i'm ignoring the timeline" camp. Since Nintendo is the only ones who can decide if there is a timline or not, there word is final.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 03, 2010, 02:38:24 PM
I would like to see multiple Links in a game with the style of Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword similar to the Four Swords games.
In Twilight Princess when Midna or some one else mentioned that the Twili were banished by a group of people called the "Anchient Ones" for trying to reach the Sacred Realm. are are the Anchient Ones? My theory is that the anchient ones are the rulers of Sky Loft and the progenitors of the Twili will be mentioned or revealed in Skyward Sword as a rival faction the Anchient Ones.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 02:49:35 PM
Except there is a official timeline, so you are of the "i'm ignoring the timeline" camp. Since Nintendo is the only ones who can decide if there is a timline or not, there word is final.
In the link Maxi posted, one of the questions posed to Aonuma was whether Ganon would be in Skyward Sword. This is before even Ocarina of Time, where Gannondorf became Ganon for the first time. That Aonuma would only answer "no comment" to that question instead of outright denying it alone is enough to tell me that Nintendo doesn't really give a damn about the Zelda timeline and only pays it lip service when it's convenient.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Dirk Temporo on September 03, 2010, 03:01:55 PM
There's no official timeline. There are a couple vague statements made by Aunoma that give the impression there is a set timeline, but all it really means is that they realized how much fans are interested in that stuff, and decided to throw them a bone while they work on new games that they can sandwich into an ACTUAL timeline.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on September 03, 2010, 03:06:03 PM
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Except there is a official timeline, so you are of the "i'm ignoring the timeline" camp. Since Nintendo is the only ones who can decide if there is a timline or not, there word is final.
I am in the "ignoring the timeline" camp. Nintendo's timeline is stupid and makes no sense. It's easier for me to enjoy the games if I just treat them as isolated titles with no real conection to each other. Nintendo just isn't any good at storytelling and it's because they obviously don't care. However I do feel the fan-assumed timeline of the first six games works quite well and I'll act like those games are connected when replaying them.
I do this with Star Wars as well. I isolate the unaltered version of the original trilogy and ignore everything else because it sucks and is contradictory.
It's just fiction. I'm not trying to connect the dots of history using ancient scrolls here. So why can't I just pick and choose what I like and ignore the rest? It's all supposed to be fun anyway. If the creator makes it less enjoyable with retcons, inconsistencies and just plain stupid ideas, why let him ruin it for you?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 03, 2010, 03:18:29 PM
There's no official timeline. There are a couple vague statements made by Aunoma that give the impression there is a set timeline, but all it really means is that they realized how much fans are interested in that stuff, and decided to throw them a bone while they work on new games that they can sandwich into an ACTUAL timeline.
Both Aonuma and Miyamoto have said there IS an official timeline, so that means there IS. You may ignore it, but that doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. The facts are that there is an official Zelda timeline, end of story. Sorry, but anybody who says otherwise is speaking out of their ass and just ignoring facts.
Ian, the Star Wars movies don't contract each other. If you are talking about the books, blame Lucas for saying that they are canon too (except when they contradict the movies, if the movies and a book contradict each other then the movie is automatically correct and the book is wrong).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2010, 03:30:32 PM
Both Aonuma and Miyamoto have said there IS an official timeline, so that means there IS. You may ignore it, but that doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. The facts are that there is an official Zelda timeline, end of story. Sorry, but anybody who says otherwise is speaking out of their ass and just ignoring facts.
You mean like ignoring the fact that a particular, seemingly-immortal villain can't appear in a game prior to the game he was created in? Yeah, someone's speaking out of their ass, alright.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 03, 2010, 04:46:20 PM
Since we don't know any details of the story, don't go assuming things. I, on the other hand, am going by established facts.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on September 03, 2010, 08:35:44 PM
The timeline only makes sense if you consider all of the games at once, which is only possible after they've all been released. You go back half way, and none of it makes sense anymore. I just couldn't imagine anyone having this planned out since OoT at the latest.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on September 03, 2010, 09:45:06 PM
It's a legend, not a Din-forsaken history book.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on September 04, 2010, 04:30:14 AM
the thing that disappoints me with Nintendo making more prequels is it makes my awesome fan fiction ideas just ideas.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on September 04, 2010, 09:09:11 AM
Star Wars talk moved to a Star Wars thread (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=12347.msg162408#msg162408)...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on September 04, 2010, 05:31:51 PM
the thing that disappoints me with Nintendo making more prequels is it makes my awesome fan fiction ideas just ideas.
No shame in being a revisionist.
In my Fan Zelda, Impa is an undead ninja.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 04, 2010, 08:01:52 PM
Any chance of Vaati being the villian of Skyward Sword?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on September 04, 2010, 08:18:25 PM
Wow Kytim you must be reading my posts on other forums because I said the same thing a few days ago. :P
Only real reason I think that Vaati could be the villian this game is because it takes place before OOT when Ganon first appeared. This is taking in consideration that Minish Cap is first in the timeline.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 04, 2010, 08:31:41 PM
Wow Kytim you must be reading my posts on other forums because I said the same thing a few days ago. :P:
Only real reason I think that Vaati could be the villian this game is because it takes place before OOT when Ganon first appeared. This is taking in consideration that Minish Cap is first in the timeline.
Skyward Sword is a prequel to Minsih Cap which is turn a prequel to OoT. Skyward Sword and Minish Cap is where the LoZ adventure starts and Ocarina of Time is when a fork in the road of the series starts. The left path follows the adult ending. The right path follows the child ending of OoT.
There is also some kind of connection between Majora's Mask and the Twili. I also believe that those chicken people that lived in the sky in TP will have a much larger role in the newest game and the progenitors of the Twili will be the rival faction of the Oooca, or what ever.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on September 04, 2010, 09:55:55 PM
I was just playing Minish Cap today and I noticed the blue mushrooms also showed up in the SS demo. The mushrooms could be sucked and stretched with the Gust Jar to fling Link across chasms; seems like a perfect match for Motion Plus.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on September 05, 2010, 02:08:43 AM
Out of curiosity, what does an official timeline add to the series?
To me, nothing. That's why I don't care that Miyamoto and Aonuma are in a special club of two that has their little Zelda timeline within the walls of Nintendo's offices in Kyoto under lock and key. I acknowledge that they've gone on record to say they have one (I read that interview), but when they refuse to divulge the specifics, it's hard to care that it exists. Since the games aren't codependent on each other, an official timeline is inconsequential.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 05, 2010, 12:21:06 PM
What is Ganon and the Gerudo's relationship to pigs? Also, who or what is the Happy Mask Salesman? Is he a villian or something else?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on September 05, 2010, 03:03:28 PM
Nintendo isn't afraid to release official timelines of their games. They've done so. There's one for the Metroid Games on the Metroid Prime 2 Demo Disc. There used to be one (although it was bad) for the Zelda games on the official website.
If Nintendo wanted to acknowledge an "official" timeline, they would.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on September 08, 2010, 01:39:28 AM
Nintendo isn't afraid to release official timelines of their games. They've done so. There's one for the Metroid Games on the Metroid Prime 2 Demo Disc. There used to be one (although it was bad) for the Zelda games on the official website.
If Nintendo wanted to acknowledge an "official" timeline, they would.
Didn't that involve making all of the Link's the same link? I recall something just before the release of Wind Waker.
OoT to Majora first. Then Link get's tossed into an alternate time at the end of Majora and then ALttP and Awakening happen. Then Zelda 1 and 2 occur and Wink Waker was going the farthest ahead yet.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 08, 2010, 01:28:36 PM
What I would really like to see in this game is some kind of boss arena that is unlocked after completeing the game. Basically Link goes up against all the main villains of the past games in the series and some popular boss battles. Of course these bosses would be set apart by the fact that Link has touse visual clues to defeat these bosses rather than just attck them like he did in the past. In fact, the game would tell you, the player, that these opponents have wanting a rematch with Link for years.
Here is a list of the boss battles:
Onox Veran Twinrova Majora Golden Darknut Byrne Vaati(if he is not the enemy of Skyward Sword) Ganon(if he is not the main villain of Skyward Sword) Bellum Chancellor Cole and Malladus Zant
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 08, 2010, 01:34:24 PM
No matter how popular it would be in Japan, I really don't think Nintendo's going to make Zelda into Monster Hunter.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 08, 2010, 05:39:12 PM
It would be nice though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 08, 2010, 06:22:12 PM
That idea doesn't really sound different than the "Cave of Trials" or whatever those caves were called that had nothing but rooms after rooms of enemies that were in Wind Waker and I believe Twilight Princess as well.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 08, 2010, 06:24:57 PM
That idea doesn't really sound different than the "Cave of Trials" or whatever those caves were called that had nothing but rooms after rooms of enemies that were in Wind Waker and I believe Twilight Princess as well.
I really hope that Nintendo never brings back that concept again for another Zelda game. Those two caves in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were such a tedious bore.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 08, 2010, 06:27:32 PM
Weren't they optional though? You didn't have to beat them. I know the one in Twilight Princess was, since I beat the game without even finding its location. If they are then it's no big deal.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 08, 2010, 06:30:24 PM
Weren't they optional though? You didn't have to beat them. I know the one in Twilight Princess was, since I beat the game without even finding its location. If they are then it's no big deal.
Yes, it was optional. Unfortunately, Nintendo always sticks a Heart Piece in the things, so I'm obligated to do them. Making them optional doesn't mean it's ok to have a really terrible part of the game, though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 08, 2010, 06:33:45 PM
Those were some of the best parts of the games, unless you don't like boss rush modes. I wish more games would do something like that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 08, 2010, 06:55:51 PM
Those were some of the best parts of the games, unless you don't like boss rush modes. I wish more games would do something like that.
I'm ok with boss rush modes, so long as they aren't so terribly long and dull. The two caves in Twilight Princess and Wind Waker are 50 floors long, most of that taken up by you just slaughtering legions of enemies you can kill relatively easily over and over again. If we're going to have something like that in these games, how about something like a true 10-floor Boss Rush cave where you actually have to fight the bosses in sequence without healing items? Just make it relatively challenging and quick, and I don't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 08, 2010, 07:03:39 PM
What I had in mind was something like a dundgeon, but with out all the puzzles. Basically Link goes in to face his foes and it is more of a challenging fan service than anything else. The dundgeons would be unlocked after completeing the game, of course, and each victory would give a speciel weapon, armor or item for wining.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 08, 2010, 07:05:11 PM
It'd be interesting if they use the Motion+ controls to add more depth to the combat.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 08, 2010, 07:10:26 PM
Will travel via ship across the oceans of Hyrule return for this title? I actually hope so, but I hope that it is not as tedious as Wind Waker.
I highly doubt that, given the title and what we've seen so far, which would seem to indicate flight as a method of travel.
*imagines having to use a magic, musical doo-hickey to change the current of the wind to glide across Hyrule*
*shudders violently*
No, just...No. Hopefully, Nintendo will use something a lot more free-form.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 09, 2010, 05:01:23 PM
Some kind of hang glider style device will most likely be implemented for Link to use for flight.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on September 09, 2010, 05:09:28 PM
I hope the owl plays a role, haven't seen him for awhile and I STILL don't know if he's good or evil :evil;
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 09, 2010, 05:26:44 PM
Masks were a big deal in Majora's Mask, so I have the idea that in Skyward Sword there should be different cloth's and armor for Link to wear and customize. Some kind of owl outfit would be a nic addition.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 09, 2010, 05:57:29 PM
I hope the owl plays a role, haven't seen him for awhile and I STILL don't know if he's good or evil :evil;
He's gotta be evil. Think about it. He follows Link around everywhere, constantly observing him, and shows up in the oddest of places. He also seems to know a lot about enemies, and seems to know things about Link that Link himself doesn't know. How is he not some kind of evil scout?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on September 09, 2010, 06:11:28 PM
True. But has he ever guided you in the wrong direction? Tricked you into implementing Gandalf's evil plan (besides wasting time with copious amounts of text)? Since he knows so much, couldn't he be one of the goddesses trying to guard Hyrule?
For now it remains...an unsolved mystery
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 09, 2010, 06:14:19 PM
He needed to gain Link's trust in order to continue to observe him. He's probably one of those evildoers who perpetually overestimates the competence of his minions, always assuming the boss of the next dungeon will do Link in.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on September 09, 2010, 06:50:20 PM
I think you guys are reading too much into things. The Owl is the convention of which the game instructs the player on where to go next. I am certain Nintendo put no more thought into it than that. So in that sense I assumed he was a good guy from the start. He's like those old dudes in the first game that give you hints in the dungeons. Have you ever stopped to think about who those guys are and what their motivations are or are they just a nifty way to give the player hints?
Thought I assumed that the owl in Ocarina of Time was the Sage from the Temple of Time. The owl and the Mask Salesman probably are depicted as "mysterious" so that the devs don't have to come up with a reason for them to be telling the player what to do. I'm sure there is no real idea in any of the developers' head what the backstory is for either character.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on September 09, 2010, 06:53:30 PM
If you hit one of the statues in Ocarina of Time with the eye of truth mask on it will say that the owl was a reincarnation of one of the original Sages.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 09, 2010, 07:00:55 PM
Good info Stratos!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 09, 2010, 07:08:02 PM
I am more suspicous of the Happy Mask Salesman being a villain than the owl. I actually like the owl and wished he would appear in future titles, including Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 09, 2010, 07:56:54 PM
My theory is that there never was an owl and that it was all in Link's mind.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 09, 2010, 11:32:38 PM
I think you guys are reading too much into things.
We are. That's the point. It's fun to create wild theories about the characters left unexplained.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 10, 2010, 12:02:53 AM
my theory about he Happy Masked Salesman, or HMS, is that he is an evil deity that is orchestrating things from the sidelines and is in fact the true evil of the series. He manipulates all the villains of the series, including Ganon, and is the LoZ version of Satan.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on September 10, 2010, 12:14:22 AM
The Happy Mask Salesman is going to wait 100 years for a male Gerudo to be born so that he could make him win over the king's trust then fail and lure link to the Temple of Time so he could invade the Sacred Realm and hijack the Triforce just to make a few bucks on masks in a backwater suburb of Hyrule? If he could think that far ahead he should just play the Treasure Chest game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 10, 2010, 12:17:32 AM
my theory about he Happy Masked Salesman, or HMS, is that he is an evil deity that is orchestrating things from the sidelines and is in fact the true evil of the series. He manipulates all the villains of the series, including Ganon, and is the LoZ version of Satan.
I think you're working under the mistaken impression that M. Night Shyamalan is in charge of writing the Zelda story.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 10, 2010, 12:31:52 AM
my theory about he Happy Masked Salesman, or HMS, is that he is an evil deity that is orchestrating things from the sidelines and is in fact the true evil of the series. He manipulates all the villains of the series, including Ganon, and is the LoZ version of Satan.
I think you're working under the mistaken impression that M. Night Shyamalan is in charge of writing the Zelda story.
my theory about he Happy Masked Salesman, or HMS, is that he is an evil deity that is orchestrating things from the sidelines and is in fact the true evil of the series. He manipulates all the villains of the series, including Ganon, and is the LoZ version of Satan.
The Happy Mask Salesman is Legend of Zelda's Tom Bombadil. A twisted and slightly demented Tom Bombadil, but still fits the role. HMSM is like if Tom Bombadil started a mask shop and became bi-polar. One of the strongest theories about Bombadil is that he is one of the gods in Tolkien's world taken human form. But many people agree that there can be no definite answer to who he is meant to be.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 10, 2010, 11:58:33 PM
I would not mind having the four seperate Links that was featured in Four Swords Adventure for a bigger title such as Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 11, 2010, 04:41:36 AM
I think you guys are reading too much into things. The Owl is the convention of which the game instructs the player on where to go next. I am certain Nintendo put no more thought into it than that. So in that sense I assumed he was a good guy from the start. He's like those old dudes in the first game that give you hints in the dungeons. Have you ever stopped to think about who those guys are and what their motivations are or are they just a nifty way to give the player hints?
Thought I assumed that the owl in Ocarina of Time was the Sage from the Temple of Time. The owl and the Mask Salesman probably are depicted as "mysterious" so that the devs don't have to come up with a reason for them to be telling the player what to do. I'm sure there is no real idea in any of the developers' head what the backstory is for either character.
Those old dudes hiding in secret caves and selling weapons are very obviously merchants on the black market. I'm serious. Who else sells weapons in secret places? I always loved how if you attacked them they would start hurling fireballs at you and you could actually end up dead in their shops... which is very different from the Zelda games of today which do not let you attack shopkeepers.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on September 11, 2010, 05:45:40 AM
I got the biggest thrill out of stealing stuff from the shop keeper in Link's Awakening. He would kill you for doing it but you got to keep the item. You could steal everything you needed right off the bat without paying a dime. Sure, you had to live with the name THIEF for the rest of the game but I think it was worth it. Plus you need to steal something to get one of the elusive pictures in the DX version.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on September 13, 2010, 11:49:21 AM
I got the biggest thrill out of stealing stuff from the shop keeper in Link's Awakening. He would kill you for doing it but you got to keep the item. You could steal everything you needed right off the bat without paying a dime. Sure, you had to live with the name THIEF for the rest of the game but I think it was worth it. Plus you need to steal something to get one of the elusive pictures in the DX version.
The perverted economy of Wind Fish Island forces Link into a life of crime: I can think of no other place in the world in which some curved wood and a peice of string will run you several times more than a bunch of bombs. Link's got secrets to find, and if it takes grand larceny to do it then so be it!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sundoulos on September 13, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
I was always afraid to steal from the shopkeeper that because I thought there would be another, unforseen consequence later in the game. Then again, I usually play my games as a goody two-shoes.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: vudu on September 13, 2010, 02:12:18 PM
I can't do a no-death run if the shopkeeper kills me.
Besides, by the end of the fourth dungeon I usually have 999 rupees anyway, so what's the point in stealing stuff? I have more money than I know what to do with.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on September 13, 2010, 05:36:36 PM
Yeah, money's never been an issue in Zelda games. It should stay that way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: vudu on September 13, 2010, 05:37:57 PM
Yeah, money's never been an issue in Zelda games. It should stay that way.
It was an issue in Twilight Princess when I had to put on my magical armor just to burn through some rupees so I could clear a treasure chest that contains more rupees that I didn't need.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 13, 2010, 08:57:10 PM
In Skyward Sword Link should have the option to rob Hyrule National Bank for rupees and he can even have accomplices. Epona would be the get away vehicule.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on September 13, 2010, 09:32:46 PM
In Skyward Sword Link should have the option to rob Hyrule National Bank for rupees and he can even have accomplices. Epona would be the get away vehicule.
Huh are you serious?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 13, 2010, 11:05:52 PM
Twilight Princess would have been much better if Link could have shorted various Hyrule markets by driving their stock prices down with the introduction of each new Malo Mart. If there's one thing the Zelda forumla is lacking at the moment it's insider trading.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 13, 2010, 11:23:16 PM
You know what they should add to Zelda? A cover system.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sundoulos on September 13, 2010, 11:41:36 PM
...and a morality choice system, and the abilty to court different NPCs. Just think how much better OOT would have been if Link could have chosen between Zelda and Malon.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 13, 2010, 11:46:06 PM
...and a morality choice system, and the abilty to court different NPCs. Just think how much better OOT would have been if Link could have chosen between Zelda and Malon.
Don't get stevey started.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on September 14, 2010, 02:20:59 AM
Some sex minigames would also be great.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 14, 2010, 02:56:43 AM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on September 14, 2010, 04:13:17 AM
Link was a ladies man in OoT. Malon, Zelda, Ruto... the list goes on.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: vudu on September 15, 2010, 02:40:40 PM
I can't stop thinking about this old thread (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=4320.0) and how much it made me laugh back in the day.
Title: Zelda MIGHT only be a little over HALF completed!
Post by: Caterkiller on December 22, 2010, 02:23:05 AM
Actual Interview http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37425/interview-shigeru-miyamoto-nintendo-zelda (http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37425/interview-shigeru-miyamoto-nintendo-zelda)
Quote
At the time of our meeting, the game is “over half complete”.
Maybe we'll be waiting a little bit longer than expected. I am expecting kick butt Galaxy level graphics.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on December 22, 2010, 01:17:38 PM
Actual Interview http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37425/interview-shigeru-miyamoto-nintendo-zelda (http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37425/interview-shigeru-miyamoto-nintendo-zelda)
Quote
At the time of our meeting, the game is “over half complete”.
Maybe we'll be waiting a little bit longer than expected. I am expecting kick butt Galaxy level graphics.
I have to admit to being more than a little disturbed by this "revelation" (as conveniently as it slides into the Zelda franchise's historic record of horrible delays). With Zelda almost assuredly being delayed till sometime Q4 next year (hint: November), what does the Wii have until then? Conduit 2? Don't make me laugh. If Zelda gets an official delay, I would expect Nintendo to announce something to fill in the gaps. Otherwise, this is pretty much the N64 and GameCube all over again.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on December 22, 2010, 01:36:50 PM
I have to admit to being more than a little disturbed by this "revelation" (as conveniently as it slides into the Zelda franchise's historic record of horrible delays). With Zelda almost assuredly being delayed till sometime Q4 next year (hint: November), what does the Wii have until then? Conduit 2? Don't make me laugh. If Zelda gets an official delay, I would expect Nintendo to announce something to fill in the gaps. Otherwise, this is pretty much the N64 and GameCube all over again.
According to IGN, "In an interview last month [Iwata] let it slip that the immediate future for Nintendo's American release calendar could be made up of products that have already been out in Japan for a while -- but just haven't been translated and localized for [the North American] market yet."
Unfortunately, there would only be one or two titles in there that I would be interested in.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 22, 2010, 01:41:26 PM
I have to admit to being more than a little disturbed by this "revelation" (as conveniently as it slides into the Zelda franchise's historic record of horrible delays). With Zelda almost assuredly being delayed till sometime Q4 next year (hint: November), what does the Wii have until then? Conduit 2? Don't make me laugh. If Zelda gets an official delay, I would expect Nintendo to announce something to fill in the gaps. Otherwise, this is pretty much the N64 and GameCube all over again.
According to IGN, "In an interview last month [Iwata] let it slip that the immediate future for Nintendo's American release calendar could be made up of products that have already been out in Japan for a while -- but just haven't been translated and localized for [the North American] market yet."
Unfortunately, there would only be one or two titles in there that I would be interested in.
Hopefully, that means we're going to see The Last Story and Xenoblade filling in the gaps, then. Getting Fatal Frame 4 or Tales of Graces would be great, too.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 22, 2010, 01:47:50 PM
Zangeki no Reginleiv is probably too much to hope for.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on December 22, 2010, 02:14:55 PM
Zangeki no Reginleiv is probably too much to hope for.
Although it probably has a better chance than Ni No Kuni.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: alegoicoe on December 22, 2010, 02:53:55 PM
i hope nintendo is making a transition with this game for the next wii like they did in twilight princess, so we get to play it full hd, not that i care that much but am willing to wait a bit longer if that is the case.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Dasmos on December 22, 2010, 05:31:21 PM
i hope nintendo is making a transition with this game for the next wii like they did in twilight princess, so we get to play it full hd, not that i care that much but am willing to wait a bit longer if that is the case.
ahahahahahaAHAHAHA
The artsyle Nintendo has shown already looks better than 95% of "HD" offerings. Just like wind waker is basically the best looking game of all time, but it came out on the GameCube.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 22, 2010, 05:57:29 PM
If the game is "half complete" then I have my doubts that it was actually in development for 4+ years. It probably spent a lot of time in the concepts and planning stages before they started creating the game.
Looks like a pretty good game to me, but if you're burned out on shooters, there isn't much else I know of slated for release. The only confirmed Nintendo-published title for North America in 2011 is Mario Sports Mix. I wouldn't be surprised if Rhythm Heaven Wii were announced for a US release sometime soon, though. Pikmin 3 is still a Wii game last we heard, so I expect to hear something about it soon. Those and The Last Story are all I've heard of, but Nintendo doesn't usually announce new titles too far in advance.
I hope they go the route of localizing games though, there are a lot to choose from. In addition to ones already mentioned, I'd like to see Another Code R, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Captain Rainbow, Takt of Magic, and the New Play Control! versions of Chibi-Robo and Pikmin 2. There are probably a couple of others I'm forgetting too.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 22, 2010, 06:35:01 PM
I think if Zelda gets a November release, Pikmin 3 is perfect for the late-August release slot. They could do NPC Pikmin 2 earlier in the year to build excitement.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on December 22, 2010, 06:51:27 PM
Pikmin is going to get the TP treatment. Miyamoto already mentioned Pikmin would be great in HD. That's how he sets us up so we don't lash out in too much anger.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 22, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
I don't think fans would want to wait 2-3 more years for that, and it's not a big enough franchise anyways. The only reason they did it with TP is because they knew the Wii would be coming out not much longer after they would finish it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 22, 2010, 08:27:15 PM
It's not that surprising that the game is only half way done and probably wont be out until next fall. I mean, look at what the E3 trailer and all we see is basically one little area, that Aonuma himself has said will even be different from the final game. Not to mention the music uses from the trailer is one of Twilight Princess promotional songs showing that the trailer itself was basically thrown together as quickly as possible and they didn't even have anything new ready to use in time.
On the topic of what else will be ready before Zelda. Like others have said, Rhythm Heaven will fill in the gaps since the DS game did well in America and Europe so the Wii version will also be released as well. Pikmin 3 also has a good chance since EAD 4 hasn't released anything since NSMBW in 2009, and they did the New Play Control Pikmin ports before that so Pikmin 3 could be ready at any moment for all we know. Not to mention the Fatal Frame 2 remake will make it over here as well since Fatal Frame 4 was SUPPOSE to be released wordwide, but since Tecmo refused to fix the terrible glitches in the game, NCL was the ones who refused NOA and NOE to localize the games in order to punish Tecmo for doing a sh!tty job. I'd imagine after the Fatal Frame 4 disaster, Nintendo is going to make sure Temco removes all glitches from Fatal Frame 2 before the games even released in Japan meaning it's guaranteed to get a worldwide release this time.
On the issue of Xenoblade and The Last Story, I still feel both games will make it over here but it will take a while. Both games are huge RPG's with thousands of lines of text and dialog to translate. NOA has never had to localize anything of this size and scoop before which is why both games will take a while. Chances are pretty good that NOA has been working on Xenoblade since it's release in Japan last June, but because of all the text and voice work it's taking forever to translate and probably won't be ready until the summer at the earliest. This is why The Last Story probably won't come out in North America until Spring 2012 at the earliest since that game still hasn't come out in Japan yet and is already looking to be just as big, if not bigger in text and dialog then Xenoblade.
Oh yeah, and don't forget that Monster and Next Level both haven't made anything for Nintendo since Exitebots and Punch-Out!! in 2009, so I think they's a good chance both studio's will have something ready for the Wii in 2011 as well.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 22, 2010, 08:32:15 PM
On the issue of Xenoblade and The Last Story, I still feel both games will make it over here but it will take a while. Both games are huge RPG's with thousands of lines of text and dialog to translate. NOA has never had to localize anything of this size and scoop before which is why both games will take a while.
Forgetting Baten Kaitos Origins on the GameCube, are we? ;) But in the end, they did have an outside company do that localization, so I suppose you're technically correct on that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on December 22, 2010, 08:45:46 PM
Too bad my time machine is busted because I would travel into the future and but these games and then return to 2010 and play them while everyone else is still waiting for their release. ;)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 22, 2010, 09:01:21 PM
Forgetting Baten Kaitos Origins on the GameCube, are we? ;) But in the end, they did have an outside company do that localization, so I suppose you're technically correct on that.
According to people who've imported Xenobade, it's suppose to be a much bigger game then Baten Kaitos. Not to mention it took 11 months for the first Baten Kaitos to be localized and 7 months for it's sequel Baten Kaitos Origins to be localized.
So if Xenoblade was to be localized at the same speed, we could expect it sometime between Febuary - May 2011. Of course since it's a bigger game, I'm going to put my money on it being released sometime between June - September 2011.
Of course I'd love to be wrong in this situation so it'll hopefully have an earlier release date.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on December 22, 2010, 09:46:46 PM
Depending on how desperate Nintendo is to release something in NA, I suppose it's possible for them to make translation of certain games a priority and speed up the process.
Also, I actually thought of a third party 2010 release that I am really looking forward to: Lost in Shadow. It's coming out relatively early though, and has already been released in the UK as A Shadow's Tale, if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on December 22, 2010, 11:30:31 PM
I see titles like Skyward Sword, Last Story and Xenoblade as laying the red carpet for the Wii 2 and closing the door for the Wii because it just seems to me that the Wii can not get much better that it already is in the past year or so. Of course there are still plenty of good titles for the Wii to come out this year, I just can not shake this feeling that the Wii is due for the obituaries.
If Skyward Sword is released for holiday 2011, then it will be the Wii's swan song.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Peachylala on December 25, 2010, 09:51:02 PM
Quote
Not to mention the Fatal Frame 2 remake will make it over here as well since Fatal Frame 4 was SUPPOSE to be released wordwide, but since Tecmo refused to fix the terrible glitches in the game, NCL was the ones who refused NOA and NOE to localize the games in order to punish Tecmo for doing a sh!tty job. I'd imagine after the Fatal Frame 4 disaster, Nintendo is going to make sure Temco removes all glitches from Fatal Frame 2 before the games even released in Japan meaning it's guaranteed to get a worldwide release this time.
Doesn't Nintendo have it's own debug unit so they could avoid this, or were they really that PO'ed at Tecmo? (though for valid reasons)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on December 26, 2010, 06:48:17 AM
Maybe Tecmo had all the code rights and refused to even allow Nintendo to alter it. I remember reading an article about Nintendo and localization where is was revealed that Nintendo was unique in how it kept a dev team together to keep fixing up a game after Japanese release. This was why we always got new things in our NA releases. Tecmo is probably more into throwing a new project at the team immediately to better turn a profit.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 26, 2010, 09:28:51 PM
Yeah, Tecmo was responsible for all the development of the game since Nintendo was only publishing and funding it in order to have the game a Wii exclusive. This is why Nintendo didn't know about the bugs until after the game was released and reports of gamebreaking bugs started to appear.
I'd imagine Nintendo will be involved in Fatal Frame 2's debugging though to make sure another accident doesn't happen again.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 26, 2010, 09:35:17 PM
I am still mad at Tecmo Koei, I wanted to play the game but they refused to fix the bugs (and Nintendo said they would only allow the game to be localized if TK fixed the bugs).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on December 28, 2010, 07:55:15 AM
Don't publishers usually have enough clout to get things like that fixed?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on December 28, 2010, 10:47:36 AM
I want some Skyward news off of Nintendo's January 19 special event.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 28, 2010, 02:29:11 PM
Don't publishers usually have enough clout to get things like that fixed?
Well Nintendo did tell Tecmo to fix the bugs for the worldwide release, but Tecmo refused. Which is why Iwata got pissed and banned NOA or NOE from publishing the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on December 29, 2010, 02:23:13 PM
Quote
With Zelda almost assuredly being delayed till sometime Q4 next year (hint: November), what does the Wii have until then? Conduit 2? Don't make me laugh. If Zelda gets an official delay, I would expect Nintendo to announce something to fill in the gaps. Otherwise, this is pretty much the N64 and GameCube all over again.
Well, we've already seen this sort of thing on the Wii. Back when the NPC titles were in full force the Wii's release list was utterly barren. We've asked the "well what do they have until then?" question before and the answer has been "jack ****". And Nintendo didn't suffer from it. Wii sales didn't tank. So what do they care? They think they can get away with it so they'll just do it again.
Though what does surprise me is that the plan is for NOA to localize previously Japan-only titles. Well then what does Japan get? Nintendo cares about the Japanese market more than anything. They must be extremely confident if they're cool with having these sort of release gaps there. But then you never know these days when Nintendo will randomly pull some game out of their ass. They're very quiet about future products.
The problem with this type of release schedule, and I noticed this with the N64 and Gamecube as well, is that it puts a lot of pressure on each title. When you have to wait months between games it really sucks if that one game for the quarter lets you down. You don't have an abundance of titles to choose from. Either this game rocks your world of you've got jack **** to play for ANOTHER three months. That game has to deliver.
So Skyward Sword has to deliver. If it has wonky controls or conservative design that is too similar to Ocarina of Time or is missing obvious content due to being rushed, well that's not really acceptable. You can tolerate that sort of thing on a system with an abundant release schedule. But if you've twiddled your thumbs all year with nothing to play, you deserve better. I think that hurt Twilight Princess a lot for me. I waited a year with absolutely nothing to play on my Gamecube at all for THIS? It was a great game but it wasn't worth all that waiting around with nothing to play. Few games ever could be worth that much. It's just setting things up for disappointment. But if it's just released as a great game in a healthy release schedule of good games, it can get away with more rough spots. It doesn't have to be the "saviour" of the Wii or anything like that.
Still Nintendo can have some stuff to show at E3 and it's not unlike them to show titles for the second half of the year at E3. But the problem still is that we currently don't really have anything until E3.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on December 29, 2010, 11:27:50 PM
Well, there are some games that Nintendo announced or showed that are still MIA anywhere. Cosmic Walker? They probably have a lot pinned on Last Story as well. I'm curious what the next Wii__ game will be if there is even one more. Maybe a new M+ exclusive game?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 29, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
I think that game could be unofficially considered canceled. I think the last time Nintendo even mentioned it was in May 2009, when they released of list of games scheduled to release in Japan in 2009.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 30, 2010, 03:39:45 AM
When you have to wait months between games it really sucks if that one game for the quarter lets you down. You don't have an abundance of titles to choose from. Either this game rocks your world of you've got jack **** to play for ANOTHER three months. That game has to deliver.
Or you could check out some titles that have already been released. Whenever there is a gap in Nintendo's release schedule or if they put out games that don't interest me, I check my wish list of released titles that I passed up for Nintendo or other games I wanted (which currently has about 60+ games on it). Unless your taste is extremely limited, you should be able to find plenty of good games to tide you over.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on January 01, 2011, 07:17:16 PM
You could also go back to your other games and try to 100% them. I have a large back log of games on my Wii that I have been neglecting for a while; I have put "Play Okami" on my list of to-dos before my winter break ends, as I literally have not touched the game in two years.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 02, 2011, 03:43:00 PM
Unless your taste is extremely limited, you should be able to find plenty of good games to tide you over.
There's a necessary balance to strike between perceived quality and value of one's personal time. I feel I would be hard pressed to find even twenty games on the Wii that I find interesting enough that I would fully dedicate myself to them. I want AAA gaming experiences, and as cool as De Blob is, I know I'm never going to play it to completion.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 04, 2011, 06:31:03 PM
I think that falls under "extremely limited taste."
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 04, 2011, 07:27:27 PM
I'm of the idea that if one has to make an effort to find something they like then the selection is crap. I never had to deal with this on the SNES. I've never had to deal with this on any of the Playstations. Those systems always had such a large amount of variety that I never felt like I had nothing to play. You don't have to look hard to find something. The games are just always there. One should be allowed to have whatever tastes they want regardless of whether or not it is "limited". If a console has true variety and selection then it caters to even the most niche gamers.
Nintendo consoles have utterly sucked at this for three generations now. Even if you feel one should put some extra effort in to looking for games to play or to be more open-minded, the other consoles DON'T ask that of their userbase. So why should I or anyone else bother? Nintendo should not ask of their userbase (or third parties or retailers) more than the competition does. That's Nintendo in a nutshell - always asking for this exception or for people to cut them slack on this or that. Nintendo is not entitled to any special treatment. Everyone else provides enough variety that it is effortless and easy to have something to play. That is the standard that I expect everyone to meet. Nintendo does not meet that therefore their big games have extra pressure to make up for that deficiency, which is disadvantageous to them.
I would argue that other consoles do encounter this from time to time, usually around launch when selection is slim. A big game that ends a slump can face extra pressure to deliver. Both the X360 and PS3 suffered from this early on. But it was a temporary inconvenience for them. For Nintendo it has been the consistent routine since 1996.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 04, 2011, 07:43:41 PM
One should be allowed to have whatever tastes they want regardless of whether or not it is "limited".
I never stated or implied that no one was "allowed" to have the taste they wanted. I understand why people choose to be fastidious, but in doing so, they're also choosing to give themselves a very limited selection. But that's their choice.
If you want to play games other than the few big name releases that are hyped up everywhere, then you will have to spend a little extra time to look them up. This is true of all systems, not just the Wii, and has been ever since the Atari.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on January 04, 2011, 08:59:49 PM
Maybe games seem to suck more nowadays because of the Internet, where back then you simply bought the game and enjoyed it instead of reading everyone else's opinions about it and making them your own. Or, now that you're older your tastes have developed and you're quicker to point out the flaws of games rather than what makes them fun.
I loved the game "Road Runner's Death Valley Rally" and played it all the game when I was a kid, but when I looked it up recently it's said to be a terrible, awful game with bad level design and boss design. Though I don't buy licensed games anymore (Harry Potter ruined it for me), RRDVR is one of my old favorites. I often played it for the sake of playing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on January 05, 2011, 01:03:57 AM
If you want to play games other than the few big name releases that are hyped up everywhere, then you will have to spend a little extra time to look them up.
I have to agree with you there. I'd hardly consider No More Heroes a big name release. I almost didn't buy it because I didn't know anything about it. To me, it's still the best 3rd party game on the Wii and the best example of how to properly use and implement motion controls. It'd probably be a pretty mediocre game with traditional controls.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MaryJane on January 05, 2011, 06:32:15 AM
Is it at all possible that this thread could be used to talk about the upcoming Zelda game for which it was created?
I keep clicking on it thinking maybe there's some new information, only to find people discussing things that should be in the General Gaming forum.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Dasmos on January 05, 2011, 08:04:43 AM
Hey MaryJane, member moderation is against the rules.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on January 05, 2011, 12:45:29 PM
I keep clicking on it thinking maybe there's some new information, only to find people discussing things that should be in the General Gaming forum.
Unfortunately, for that to become a reality, Nintendo would have to, you know, actually release some new information about the game, which rarely happens outside of a major press event.
That being said, I think it would be conveinient if you could mark a post as off-topic and then be able to only view on-topic posts in a particular thread.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on January 05, 2011, 01:58:16 PM
Has anyone seen this? World's Biggest Cave Found in Vietnam http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090724-biggest-cave-vietnam.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090724-biggest-cave-vietnam.html)
Studying some exotic places as inspiration for the next Zelda would be a great improvement. Some people say they want a million dungeons or voice acting or more hawtness, but I just want to feel small and overwhelmed by the scope of the environments. After all isn't that what made the first one so great for its time?
I don't want to see one giant field in the middle and I don't want to see any lava (there wasn't any during the time this series took place); that's OOT stuff and IMO needs to be put to rest. Discuss.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 05, 2011, 02:40:49 PM
Zap, I think studying exotic places for inspiration would be a good idea. Twilight Princess's world felt too "by the book". It's like they feel they have to include a forest and a mountain and some lava cave and a lake, etc. It would do them a world of good to step back and think out of the box for ideas regarding the world's geography. In retrospect Wind Waker attempted that, but I just wasn't impressed with the results. That is however not a reason to abandon the idea.
We often talk about how truly impressive visuals in a game are all about the art direction. Well if you just use worn out videogame cliches for the world then that is pretty lousy art direction. To truly visually impress us we need to be somewhere that stands out.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MaryJane on January 05, 2011, 04:32:23 PM
Hey Dasmos, no offense, but where were you when everyone got on about me talking semantics? I didn't understand then, but I do now.
Edit: @OneTwenty
My point exactly! Nintendo rarely releases info about the game, and I keep thinking; "maybe today there was something" only to find fluff.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on January 05, 2011, 04:41:52 PM
The environments of Monster Hunter Tri looked really life like, especially the Flooded Forest level. It had a very organic look to it and this kind of detail should e carried over into the Zelda series.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on January 05, 2011, 04:47:40 PM
The environments of Monster Hunter Tri looked really life like, especially the Flooded Forest level. It had a very organic look to it and this kind of detail should e carried over into the Zelda series.
One of my biggest problems with Zelda since Ocarina of Time (except for Wind Waker) is that the outdoor environments tend to be pretty obvious "rooms", complete with loading animations between sections. It's especially bad in forests with the "tree" wallpaper, even in Twilight Princess (which was probably the best it's been done in the 3D Zeldas). It really breaks the immersion for me, and from what I saw of the Tri demo it doesn't look like that issue was dealt with there, either. I hope the new Zelda has more streaming of areas so you can just walk from one end of a large environment to the next.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 05, 2011, 04:48:44 PM
Studying some exotic places as inspiration for the next Zelda would be a great improvement. Some people say they want a million dungeons or voice acting or more hawtness, but I just want to feel small and overwhelmed by the scope of the environments. After all isn't that what made the first one so great for its time?
I don't want to see one giant field in the middle and I don't want to see any lava (there wasn't any during the time this series took place); that's OOT stuff and IMO needs to be put to rest. Discuss.
As long as it isn't empty of interesting things, nor filled with useless treasure chests containing "10 rupees!"
I'm actually developing a fascination with caves, and would be really interested in a an elaborate system of tunnels and an underground world that would kind of compliment the overworld. It would be an interesting evolution of the dual-world mechanic that's been used a few times now. Anything where an ancient civilization used to live, or where a current one is forced to reside. Imagine an underground dungeon built underneath a large mountain range (but this fact is initially withheld from you) accessed only from the underground network, and as you progress you reach the summit, seeing the overworld for the first time in hours.
And of course, you could have the skyworld adding a third layer to the general world.
Come to think of it, Pokemon games do a pretty good job of connecting the overworld and underworld.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 05, 2011, 06:03:10 PM
I don't think the Wii is capable of handling large open worlds, especially ones that have any amount of detail. Even if a relatively large world could be created by streaming from the disc, sacrifices would come with that, such as a poor framerate and a second of "freeze time" whenever the next section of the world is loaded up. I'd rather have loading screens.
I don't think the Wii is capable of handling large open worlds, especially ones that have any amount of detail. Even if a relatively large world could be created by streaming from the disc, sacrifices would come with that, such as a poor framerate and a second of "freeze time" whenever the next section of the world is loaded up. I'd rather have loading screens.
I'd agree, except that the GameCube had few issues with such a thing with Wind Waker, and it was even less powerful than the Wii. Granted, Wind Waker's overworld is extremely minimalistic, but we've had open world games on consoles for years. I think with the art style that this game uses that we could see much larger areas than we saw in Twilight Princess without having to have so many transition/loading sequences.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 05, 2011, 06:10:11 PM
Wasn't constant streaming a big problem in Black Ops? Damaging disc drives? Probably not a good idea to do it that way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 05, 2011, 06:12:35 PM
Quote
As long as it isn't empty of interesting things, nor filled with useless treasure chests containing "10 rupees!"
Man, I hate those chests. It makes me wonder if when Nintendo tests Zelda games out that they have a completely different approach to rupees than the fans do. I spent most Zelda games hovering around a full wallet. I just don't spend rupees that much. I buy essential items and that is about it. There is usually nothing interesting else to buy. What am I going to buy arrows and bombs? I can get those for free from defeated enemies. It's like Nintendo designs the game under the assumption that everyone is shooting arrows and throwing bombs all over the damn place and needs to constantly purchase refills. So the many chests of rupees in their minds is probably doing the player a big favour. Am I just playing differently than everyone else? Is spending rupees left and right the more common way of playing? The ironic thing is that the original Zelda had the exact opposite problem. Rupees were scarce, items were expensive and each arrow cost a rupee. In that game millions of treasure chests bursting with rupees would have been a blessing.
I wonder if the problem with Zelda's world is that Nintendo just doesn't really care about storyline elements. If you look at something like Lord of the Rings you can tell that Tolkien had this huge world in his head and had all sorts of details mapped out. I'll watch the movie and I'll see this cool statue in the background and it's not some random ass statue, it's a statue taken from the book and it was all planned and it meant something. It makes a simple locale feel so alive and real.
Miyamoto has all this gameplay is his head and then pulls all the storyline details out of his butt at the last minute. So if you want to see underground ruins of an ancient civilization? Well there is no ancient civilization in Miyamoto's head so either it doesn't go in or he decides to put something there but it's just made up with no real details behind it. When someone has a whole world planned in their head, they don't hodge podge some area together. They know the details and it is more like they are just relaying existing information. They care so the results are better. Nintendo as a whole doesn't really care about stories so Miyamoto is going to be thinking more in terms of water level, forest level, fire level. He's going to think in a technical videogame kind of way. Nintendo is not creating a world, they're creating a level for the player to play in.
I don't think this approach is necessarily wrong (it probably allows for better level design) but I think it benefitted more from inferior hardware. On the NES just that fact that it's one big world is mindblowing at the time. Ocarina of Time was such an ambitious game at the time that it didn't matter that the world was a big empty field and a bunch of glorified rooms hanging off it. I'm riding a horse! I'm travelling through time! I'm playing the individual notes of these songs! There was enough "wow" factor to keep us distracted.
Twilight Princess comes along and we're not so impressed by these things. There are less technical limitations now. Now I notice that the world is just an empty hub with rooms branching of it and that it isn't that big and there isn't much to it. Prior to the Gamecube the graphics were weak enough that you could just shove a statue in some place and it looked great because, holy ****, there's a statue. Any window dressing was exceptional. But now that it is not so exceptional that random statue looks like a random statue. It feels stiff and forced.
Hell, I noticed this with a lot of Nintendo's games from the Cube onward. It's like once the graphics were such that things could look like they should, Nintendo's characters and worlds felt a lot more generic to me. Sometimes the games seemed more empty and lacked extra details, like Nintendo only did the bare minimum. It may have been that before there was no room to work with so it took less effort to make things stand out. It's easier to fill a bedroom than it is a gymnasium. One huge exception was Metroid Prime which was just brimming with details and backstory and that game just filled with me with awe. I can't say what the thought process was in designing that game but it sure as hell felt like every detail was meticulously planned. With Zelda lately it's been more like "uh, well I guess we'll put a lake here".
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 05, 2011, 06:21:22 PM
As long as it isn't empty of interesting things, nor filled with useless treasure chests containing "10 rupees!"
Man, I hate those chests. It makes me wonder if when Nintendo tests Zelda games out that they have a completely different approach to rupees than the fans do. I spent most Zelda games hovering around a full wallet. I just don't spend rupees that much. I buy essential items and that is about it. There is usually nothing interesting else to buy. What am I going to buy arrows and bombs? I can get those for free from defeated enemies. It's like Nintendo designs the game under the assumption that everyone is shooting arrows and throwing bombs all over the damn place and needs to constantly purchase refills. So the many chests of rupees in their minds is probably doing the player a big favour. Am I just playing differently than everyone else? Is spending rupees left and right the more common way of playing? The ironic thing is that the original Zelda had the exact opposite problem. Rupees were scarce, items were expensive and each arrow cost a rupee. In that game millions of treasure chests bursting with rupees would have been a blessing.
I hate this too. If they want to continue to do this that is fine. BUT PLEASE NINTENDO, PLEASE GIVE US THE OPTION TO TAKE THE GIANT RUPEE ANYWAY, EVEN IF OUR WALLET IS FULL!!!
There is nothing worse than seeing a chest in a spot that is hard to reach. We get finally arrive and get told that we can't take the 100 rupees because our wallet is full. So we have to get out again and get it later.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 05, 2011, 06:22:25 PM
Wasn't constant streaming a big problem in Black Ops? Damaging disc drives? Probably not a good idea to do it that way.
Yeah, it was, though that's because the game wasn't optimized for the Wii. If Zelda used a streaming method, it wouldn't be nearly as aggressive as that game, it'd be more like how in Metroid Prme the next area loads when you approach a door, so it would just load at certain spots.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on January 05, 2011, 08:27:05 PM
Either we need limitless wallets or there should be some intermediary item of sorts. That's what I liked in the DS Zeldas. There were these random treasures you got. You could trade them with NPCs and other players, use them to build train parts or just sell them for money. There are a dozen different ones and it really spiced up the chest rewards I got. I always hoped for that one elusive one and I tried to trade all the time to get the less common ones. It should really be implemented in the console games.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: DAaaMan64 on January 05, 2011, 08:39:09 PM
Just make the treasure chests that just have money in 'em look different. So then players can come back to them and not lose there cash.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on January 05, 2011, 08:45:51 PM
Didn't the problem with TP's story come from problems mid-way in development? I read somewhere that both the story and the game play were designed first (or at least by mid-2009) for Skyward Sword in order to avoid these problems.
Aonuma did admit that TP's world was too large and vacant, so they're supposedly fixing it in the new game by making it more dense.
When Miyamoto mentioned "the game is half complete" maybe they're adding the lefty option that 10% of the population is begging for.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on January 06, 2011, 12:30:41 AM
Studying some exotic places as inspiration for the next Zelda would be a great improvement. Some people say they want a million dungeons or voice acting or more hawtness, but I just want to feel small and overwhelmed by the scope of the environments. After all isn't that what made the first one so great for its time?
I don't want to see one giant field in the middle and I don't want to see any lava (there wasn't any during the time this series took place); that's OOT stuff and IMO needs to be put to rest. Discuss.
I'm actually developing a fascination with caves, and would be really interested in a an elaborate system of tunnels and an underground world that would kind of compliment the overworld. It would be an interesting evolution of the dual-world mechanic that's been used a few times now. Anything where an ancient civilization used to live, or where a current one is forced to reside. Imagine an underground dungeon built underneath a large mountain range (but this fact is initially withheld from you) accessed only from the underground network, and as you progress you reach the summit, seeing the overworld for the first time in hours.
This is genius, I'd like that (something mario brothers could learn from).
I approve of getting rid of wallet limitations but what about this: each race has their own rupee color. Fun gimmick or needless complication?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 06, 2011, 12:43:11 AM
Describe a bit more... What would the benefit be of such an implementation?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 06, 2011, 12:44:23 AM
Wouldn't that be like each state having their own money? Hyrule is basically one country, correct? I think keeping the current system where colored rupees represent different amounts works best, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on January 06, 2011, 12:49:30 AM
Wouldn't that be like each state having their own money? Hyrule is basically one country, correct? I think keeping the current system where colored rupees represent different amounts works best, but that's just my opinion.
Why has no one ever thought of creating a Bank of Hyrule where Link can deposit his extra rupees and then return to get them or make another desposit?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on January 06, 2011, 01:07:33 AM
Wouldn't that be like each state having their own money? Hyrule is basically one country, correct? I think keeping the current system where colored rupees represent different amounts works best, but that's just my opinion.
It broke apart because the Zoras wouldn't stop using the Gorons as....well you know. :-[
Wouldn't that be like each state having their own money? Hyrule is basically one country, correct? I think keeping the current system where colored rupees represent different amounts works best, but that's just my opinion.
Why has no one ever thought of creating a Bank of Hyrule where Link can deposit his extra rupees and then return to get them or make another desposit?
Unless you could do it on the fly, it wouldn't fully solve the problem. And being Hyrule they probably wouldn't include E-Banking in Link's box of tricks. You would still have to trudge all the way into Castle Town (presumably) or maybe the nearest city/town/dwelling to empty your wallet.
Not very convenient when you are out in the middle of nowhere or in a dungeon.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on January 06, 2011, 01:23:03 AM
Wouldn't that be like each state having their own money? Hyrule is basically one country, correct? I think keeping the current system where colored rupees represent different amounts works best, but that's just my opinion.
Why has no one ever thought of creating a Bank of Hyrule where Link can deposit his extra rupees and then return to get them or make another desposit?
As MegaByte pointed out, Majora's Mask says "hello". And, unfortunately, money was even more worthless in that game than in the other 3D Zeldas. You only deposited your money to get the heart piece for having a ridiculous amount of rupees deposited at the same time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on January 06, 2011, 02:29:53 AM
What they should do is have this ridiculously difficult to attain albeit cool-looking armor that drains Rupees whenever it's even equipped and protects Link against damage by subtracting large amounts of Rupees per hit for some reason, and when Link runs out of Rupees, the armor bogs him down so he can't even wear it to look awesome. That way, the player will always be driven to have and find Rupees since the armor magically reduces the amount of Rupees at all times... forever. They should call it like Magic Armor or something.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 06, 2011, 03:52:15 AM
Which is one of the last items you get. It is of no help for the first 3/4 of the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on January 06, 2011, 03:53:43 AM
I've only played the first game on the NES and Twilight Princess. I bought Ocarina of Time on VC a little less than 4 years ago and I played it for 10 minutes and quickly lost interest.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on January 06, 2011, 10:11:52 AM
What they should do is have this ridiculously difficult to attain albeit cool-looking armor that drains Rupees whenever it's even equipped and protects Link against damage by subtracting large amounts of Rupees per hit for some reason, and when Link runs out of Rupees, the armor bogs him down so he can't even wear it to look awesome. That way, the player will always be driven to have and find Rupees since the armor magically reduces the amount of Rupees at all times... forever. They should call it like Magic Armor or something.
Twilight Princess was so spectacularly easy, though, that there was never really a reason to use that armor. I only even bothered to purchase it for the sake of completionism.
I really wonder what Nintendo's going to do about the challenge level of these Zelda games. I haven't been truly challenged by one since I originally played Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, and when played years later they really aren't that challenging. It's not a huge knock on the games, but I would like the franchise to start respecting (as the 3D Mario games seem to have) that its players have gotten older and gotten better.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on January 06, 2011, 01:53:28 PM
I really wonder what Nintendo's going to do about the challenge level of these Zelda games. I haven't been truly challenged by one since I originally played Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, and when played years later they really aren't that challenging. It's not a huge knock on the games, but I would like the franchise to start respecting (as the 3D Mario games seem to have) that its players have gotten older and gotten better.
Why has no one ever thought of creating a way to choose your own difficulty level at the start of the video game?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on January 06, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
I really wonder what Nintendo's going to do about the challenge level of these Zelda games. I haven't been truly challenged by one since I originally played Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, and when played years later they really aren't that challenging. It's not a huge knock on the games, but I would like the franchise to start respecting (as the 3D Mario games seem to have) that its players have gotten older and gotten better.
Why has no one ever thought of creating a way to choose your own difficulty level at the start of the video game?
Oh we thought it, Nintendo just wont do it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on January 06, 2011, 05:09:29 PM
I am the Scourge of God, appointed to chastise you since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity except me. You are wicked, but I am more wicked than you. So, be silent!
Oh, THAT kind of smite. How silly.
Anyway, Majora's Mask was good. I could never bring myself to beat it more than once. I tried though it hasn't aged particularly well. However, that's a matter of opinion. I kind of feel like if you didn't play it 10 years ago, you're probably better off waiting for the inevitable remake. Hey, it might even come out on 3DS.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 06, 2011, 05:11:42 PM
Quote
Why has no one ever thought of creating a way to choose your own difficulty level at the start of the video game?
That's lame and out-of-date. These days there are games that let you change the difficulty level in the middle of a saved game. It kind of sucks to have to start a brand new save if you picked a difficulty that was too easy are too hard for you. This solves the problem. And then games like Left 4 Dead attempt to dynamically alter the difficulty based on how well the player is doing.
But Nintendo always has to re-invent the wheel so we get the super guide. That's Nintendo's difficulty level option. Either beat the game yourself or have the game beat itself for you. It's not the worst idea in the world but I think it is stuck between two extremes. Using the super guide provides no sense of accomplishment while beating a game on an easier difficulty setting still can. If I can't beat a game I want to be able to just tinker with the difficulty a bit, not remove all challenge. If I want to just see a game be completed in front of me I can watch walkthroughs on YouTube.
Of course is Nintendo going to even offer the super guide in this? The concept seems to work far better for linear level-based games. How do you do such a feature for a game like Zelda where a player can do things in different sequences? It could work on dungeons though, since they are pretty much linear.
Honestly if I could just set at any time the amount of damage the enemies do that would be good enough. I find the lack of challenge in recent Zelda games is more due to the enemy hitting me and it taking off so little energy. If I can set that myself that would make a world of difference.
Though I find that I really don't like dying a lot in videogames. It sucks to have to repeat things constantly. What I like is the sense of danger. I want to feel like I COULD fail but 90% of the time I actually don't. It's fun to think "man that boss almost killed me! I won in just the nick of time!" It isn't fun to think "oh God, I died again! I can't believe I have to go through all this another time!" So I think dynamically altered difficulty levels is the ideal way to go. And if someone just wants a game to be super easy or super hard then they can turn off the dynamic difficulty and just select one level that it sticks to the whole time.
The magic armor in Twilight Princess, again, makes me wonder how Nintendo thinks we play their games. Do they honestly think I suck so much that I need this armor to stay alive? It would only be useful to the most inept players, who probably could never get so far. Kind of like how someone too stupid to use a normal controller would also be too stupid to hook a videogame system up to a TV.
Oh, and they could solve the tressure chest thing by just marking any chests that have been opened but still have their treasure in them differently than empty chests and unopened chests. Right now they just have two icons. Add a third and no one goes running around for a chest on their map that is just useless rupees they already could not fit in their wallet.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MaryJane on January 06, 2011, 05:39:11 PM
The first two Zelda's are restrictively hard, and I have still yet to beat the first, and probably never will. I thought OoT was somewhat easy, but LttP wasn't that hard either, except a couple of bosses. I found TP and WW to have a good level of difficulty, but as with all Zelda games, for me it has been about the weapons/gameplay, and story. Nintendo has yet to disapoint me on those aspects.
Edit: Just want to note that I pretty much suck at videogames, but I still love them.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 06, 2011, 06:04:11 PM
Zelda has a difficulty setting of sorts: Heart containers are optional. If the game is too easy for you, don't pick up heart containers. If it starts to get too hard, go back and pick up the ones you passed up.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 06, 2011, 07:41:42 PM
Quote
Zelda has a difficulty setting of sorts. Heart containers are optional. If the game is too easy for you, don't pick up heart containers. If it starts to get too hard, go back and pick up the ones you passed up.
That's a pretty lame difficulty setting. What if I just arbitrarily allow all enemies to get free hits on me first before I fight back? Isn't that the same idea? I can apply that sort of self-handicapping to every game ever made.
Finding heart pieces is a big part of Zelda and finding ALL of them is usually one of the most challenging parts of Zelda. A hardcore gamer wants to find all of them. So the option is either make the game harder or don't get 100%? That just doesn't fly. No matter what the player is deprived.
Plus I don't cut Nintendo a break anymore when they say "well couldn't you just do this?" Why don't they just put some difficulty settings in? Why do *I* always have to come up with my own workarounds or compromise on this or that when it comes to Nintendo? How about THEY just provide me what I want for a change instead of giving me excuses or telling me what I should want or how this weird ass goofy solution fulfils my request?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on January 06, 2011, 08:59:07 PM
Given the size of Zelda, adding more layers of difficulty might require a crap-load more time to be put into the game to ensure game balance for all situations. Putting more enemies in places or simply giving enemies higher HP and attack power is a cop-out. Easy difficulties may seem like a joke to even novice players, and most players will probably avoid the higher difficulty levels. A one-size-fits-all difficulty is just fine with me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 06, 2011, 09:11:41 PM
I can apply that sort of self-handicapping to every game ever made.
Isn't selecting Hard a self-handicap? You chose to make it harder. I see no difference.
It isn't like you have to go out of your way to avoid heart containers. When you beat a boss, just step into the light ring/leave the room without picking it up. You're giving yourself less hits, which is what most hard settings do anyway. Seems perfectly fine to me.
As far as 100%, just collect the heart containers after you finish playing through the game. That's usually what I do anyway.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MaryJane on January 06, 2011, 10:14:17 PM
TP had unnecessary armor, could SS have unnecessary weapons like LttP?
In terms of adding difficulty, I don't see that because it was pretty difficult/required luck/a brother who is better at videogames to get the magic cape, cane of byrna(?), and ice rod.
I would say getting heart pieces isn't adding difficulty in a true sense, because getting heart pieces isn't like talking to someone you have to speak to in order for the game to proceed. Usually the more skilled players are the ones who get the most heart pieces, empty bottles, bigger bomb bags and quivers, etc.
I also wonder if this Zelda could see some DLC for replay value. Side quests, extra dungeons, and old dungeons springing to life again because of a resurgence of evil, leading to a Majora's Mask like sequel of SS as a WiiWare game that requires SS disc to load game... :) I would like to see that anyway.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 07, 2011, 02:24:39 AM
I'd imagine that the boss fights will be harder thanks to the Super Guide since those would be the easiest part of the game to implement the Super Guide. Plus I remember an interview around E3 where I think Aonuma said he wanted the boss fights to be more engaging and challenging. Which is one of the reason why Link changes his weapons in real-time and even drinks his healing potions in real-time as well now.
So this leads me to believe that they'll at least be a Super Guide for the boss fights since it sounds like they want to really increase their difficulty this time. And since the Super Guide has so far allowed Nintendo to get away with really increasing the difficulty for Mario and Donkey Kong, it looks like it'll help Zelda as well.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 07, 2011, 07:39:44 AM
Super guide for Zelda? Awesome idea! The guide character can be Tingle!!!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sundoulos on January 07, 2011, 09:27:59 AM
Didn't the originally-released patent for the super guide include drawings of a Zelda-style game? http://kotaku.com/5127251/nintendo-patent-reveals-potential-paradigm-shift-in-design
It would be interesting to see how they might implement that in a 3D Zelda game, though it might just be better to have a built-in hint system. (Buying hints would be a great use for all those extra Rupees lying around Hyrule, as well.)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on January 07, 2011, 11:07:22 AM
But Nintendo always has to re-invent the wheel so we get the super guide. That's Nintendo's difficulty level option. Either beat the game yourself or have the game beat itself for you. It's not the worst idea in the world but I think it is stuck between two extremes. Using the super guide provides no sense of accomplishment while beating a game on an easier difficulty setting still can. If I can't beat a game I want to be able to just tinker with the difficulty a bit, not remove all challenge. If I want to just see a game be completed in front of me I can watch walkthroughs on YouTube.
You can't really have different difficulty settings in platformer. Making platforming easier would essentially require you to make an entirely new level unless you want it to be slower/faster goombas. They didn't really reinvent the wheel because the wheel doesn't work for their game. Wait for the super guide to be released in different genre before you decide to rip into it. Isn't this basically what people do to beat super meat boy: watch somebody else play it on youtube and copy them? This is pretty much the acceptable way to help you in a platformer and Nintendo included it in the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 07, 2011, 12:25:03 PM
Quote
Isn't selecting Hard a self-handicap? You chose to make it harder. I see no difference.
In one situation the developer does the work by offering me the option. In the other I, the player, have to make a conscious effort to play their game in some goofy ass way they probably never intended in the first place. I consider it the responsibility of the developer to come up with a good difficultly or to provide difficulty options. I can just look at Gamefaqs to figure out any obtuse puzzle and I can always rewire a custom controller if I don't like the button assignment in a game. But those are all excuses for poor design. No workarounds. It is the developer's responsibility to get it right, not our responsibility to work around their design.
Quote
Which is one of the reason why Link changes his weapons in real-time and even drinks his healing potions in real-time as well now.
Oh man, is this going to be like that shitty ass system that Star Fox Adventures used? In that game you had to cycle through a menu in the corner of the screen in real time to switch items. So you have to go through the menu while staying alive at the same time. It wasn't challenging, it was frustrating. Being able to pause to switch items is a convenience, not some dumbed-down handicap to make the game easy for beginners. It's just good design. You can say that in real life you can't pause but in real life I also don't have to fumble through a menu to do a command (like in an RPG) or grab the item that I would normally have in an easy-to-reach location like in my pocket or on my belt. Menus are an unrealistic feature in videogames but there isn't really a better way to do it. Thus games should accomodate that by allowing one to pause to use a menu.
Real difficulty is like good AI that requires skill and strategy to beat. Real time menu fumbling is bullshit difficulty because the "challenge" comes entirely from inconveniencing the player.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on January 07, 2011, 03:19:21 PM
I think it'll be like Red Dead Redemption, which is ridiculously easy to change weapons on the fly.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 07, 2011, 03:22:58 PM
I think they showed it in the E3 presentation. It's kind of like switching visors in Metroid Prime 3, right?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on January 07, 2011, 03:37:31 PM
Yeah
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 07, 2011, 06:07:12 PM
In one situation the developer does the work by offering me the option. In the other I, the player, have to make a conscious effort to play their game in some goofy ass way they probably never intended in the first place.
The fact that heart containers are optional as opposed to being forced pickups shows that the developers intended them to be used as a sort of difficulty selection. This isn't like a low-level run through an RPG where you have to avoid fighting enemies, all you have to do is decide whether or not you want to pick up or pass up extra health, the thought process of which is no different than selecting Hard or Normal on a menu. Easy.
I think they showed it in the E3 presentation. It's kind of like switching visors in Metroid Prime 3, right?
Wasn't it already like that in the Nintendo 64 and GameCube Zelda games? You assigned items to various buttons and could select them on the fly. How is the new Zelda different?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 07, 2011, 06:46:00 PM
Wasn't it already like that in the Nintendo 64 and GameCube Zelda games? You assigned items to various buttons and could select them on the fly. How is the new Zelda different?
In the previous games you had to pause the game to select the items you wanted. In Skyward Sword you select the items from menu's in real time. This video shows what I'm talking about when Link selects a potion and then drinks it in real-time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 07, 2011, 07:52:09 PM
You could map things to the C buttons (or X, Y, and Z), but you had to pause what those were. In Skyward Sword, you can quickly switch between anything in your inventory.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on January 07, 2011, 09:40:34 PM
Using the MotionPlus pointer for item selection seems to be really intuitive. Using it long enough creates muscle memory, so the "reaching into your pocket to grab an item" simile seems really appropriate and quite useful for real-time fighting. You're not immediately distracted by navigating a menu.
The only problem may lie in coherently explaining this control to newcomers in such a way that it fits seamlessly into the story, doesn't involve Wii Sports Resort-length tutorials, and doesn't eventually require a trip to the manual.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 10, 2011, 06:46:06 PM
Pointing at stuff is intuitive if the controller is already in that position. In Other M for example you hold the controller is a completely different position and then have to switch to a different position. That is more awkward than anything else. This should be fine though since you would hold it with one hand with the nunchuk in the other.
But if you point at items on the screen to select items then that more or less disables the pointer from being used in more useful situations like shooting arrows. Could it do both? Well I don't want to be moving around and shooting at some enemy only to accidentally hit the "switch item" icon in the heat of the fight. Switching with the d-pad or something like that would work better. Good controls should be able to handle themselves in the heat of the moment. The possibility of accidentally triggering something unintended should be taken into account and the controls should be designed to make this less likely to occur. If pointing at stuff can do two things at the same time there will be problems.
I thought the N64 method of just assigning the various items to C buttons was totally intuitive and flexible. I tended to have a couple of items I always had assigned like the bow or boomerang and I always used the same button for them so I thought of it less as the item button but more like the bow button. Mu only beef was the iron boots which required you to go into the menu to turn them on or off which was a real pain in the water temple where you had to switch between the two constantly. That was a big oversight but otherwise the method of assigning a button to an item was great. I don't really see much reason to change that up. I doubt any reasonable or intelligent person had any problems with that setup. "Fixing" stuff like that should be a low priority for Nintendo.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Armak88 on January 10, 2011, 06:59:43 PM
If it works like the visors in Prime 3 then you won't have to worry about accidentally switching with the pointer. When you're holding down a specific button, the screen is divided into quadrants that represent each item you want to select and wherever your pointer is when you let go of the button, that item is selected. I think that would work quite fluidly. The "item screen" would be transparent and superimposed over the game which wouldn't pause in the meantime. That way you actually have to take time to switch items, but it wouldn't be too difficult or clumsy.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on January 11, 2011, 09:02:10 PM
Are you purposely confusing yourself, Ian?
I just hope for one thing and one thing only. Make puzzles, enemies, bosses require more than one item. I've always disliked how simple the dungeons become when you finally gain access to the item hidden in them. I especially dislike how easy the boss is because of that.
It's a good formula though. I just want them to build on it. If I get the slingshot and I know the boss will require it, then how is the thinking part challenging? Let me have to break its defenses with a bomb, then hypotize with my sword, then pull away its shield with my slingshot.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2011, 01:03:48 PM
Quote
I just hope for one thing and one thing only. Make puzzles, enemies, bosses require more than one item. I've always disliked how simple the dungeons become when you finally gain access to the item hidden in them. I especially dislike how easy the boss is because of that.
It wasn't always like that. Maybe I was just a dumb kid at the time but I don't recall it being like that in A Link to the Past. Sometimes the dungeon item was the key to beating the boss but not always. It was never as cut and dry as the 3D games. In Majora's Mask the item for each dungeon was an arrow and the bosses were never just "shoot him with the arrow you just got". The formula is not cut in stone, Nintendo just frequently chooses for it to be that way.
One thing I used to do in A Link to the Past was sequence break. There is a point in the game where the only thing that prohibits you from going further is the next dungeon item. It is only the item that is needed. It isn't like some storyline stuff happened after you beat the dungeon boss (though in some cases it did). I sucked at defeating the bosses so to explore the world further I would get the item and then leave the dungeon and explore further. It was pretty fun. It also let me built up additional heart pieces so I could come back to a boss that gave me problems and have more energy to spare (plus some new items).
I know devs don't like sequence breaking like that (is it a testing nightmare or does it interfere with their "amazing" story) but that kind of flexibility was really cool.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2011, 03:14:54 PM
"I sucked at defeating the bosses so to explore the world further I would get the item and then leave the dungeon and explore further. It was pretty fun. It also let me built up additional heart pieces so I could come back to a boss that gave me problems and have more energy to spare (plus some new items)."
If people actually did that in the Metroid Prime games (which doesn't really define dungeons), there'd be much less whining about "fetch quests." Grab those mysterious thingies that don't have much explanation yet, simply because you CAN, because they are puzzles asking to be solved! But NO, people forgot how to have fun.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2011, 04:57:32 PM
Quote
If people actually did that in the Metroid Prime games (which doesn't really define dungeons), there'd be much less whining about "fetch quests." Grab those mysterious thingies that don't have much explanation yet, simply because you CAN, because they are puzzles asking to be solved! But NO, people forgot how to have fun.
Apples and oranges. The items I found in Zelda had a real obvious function to them. This is like the bow and hammer and stuff like that. They weren't just random doodads with no given purpose.
And I would argue that collecting random doodads is poor design. I know you usually collect some sort of thingy from each dungeon after beating the boss but those are like a way to give some storyline purpose to beating the level. Collecting a medalion just makes the game more immersive than having an icon on the menu saying "Level Complete". Even in games like Super Mario 64 you don't collect stars, you complete missions or objectives and the doodad is just your little trophy to keep track of doing so.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on January 13, 2011, 05:34:38 PM
Yeah but isn't exploring and finding nifty doodads the entire point? Yes its nice to find something that furthers your progression, but aren't those doodads the reason to find those real items in the first place? In Prime, those doodads further your progression at the most important part, the end.
I always liked finding something that makes no sense. It's a mystery and a reason to continue to explore.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2011, 06:38:42 PM
If people actually did that in the Metroid Prime games (which doesn't really define dungeons), there'd be much less whining about "fetch quests." Grab those mysterious thingies that don't have much explanation yet, simply because you CAN, because they are puzzles asking to be solved! But NO, people forgot how to have fun.
Apples and oranges. The items I found in Zelda had a real obvious function to them. This is like the bow and hammer and stuff like that. They weren't just random doodads with no given purpose.
And I would argue that collecting random doodads is poor design. I know you usually collect some sort of thingy from each dungeon after beating the boss but those are like a way to give some storyline purpose to beating the level. Collecting a medalion just makes the game more immersive than having an icon on the menu saying "Level Complete". Even in games like Super Mario 64 you don't collect stars, you complete missions or objectives and the doodad is just your little trophy to keep track of doing so.
I don't effing believe this, but maybe it's par for you to lose track of what you previously wrote. On top of that, you conveniently ignore aspects of these games you appear to have experience with.
"I sucked at defeating the bosses so to explore the world further I would get the item and then leave the dungeon and explore further. It was pretty fun. It also let me built up additional heart pieces so I could come back to a boss that gave me problems and have more energy to spare (plus some new items)."
You found helpful little things like Heart Pieces. Acknowledged.
"Apples and oranges. The items I found in Zelda had a real obvious function to them. This is like the bow and hammer and stuff like that."
BOW? HAMMER? How are hell are these critical *unavoidable* tools being compared to Chozo Relics and Fuel Cells? You were talking about small **** like HEART PIECES. MISSILES, EXTRA POWER BOMBS, E-TANKS, MOAR GODDAMN MISSILES -- these are comparable useful things you come across thru the mere act of "non-dungeon" exploration.
"And I would argue that collecting random doodads is poor design. I know you usually collect some sort of thingy from each dungeon after beating the boss but those are like a way to give some storyline purpose to beating the level. Collecting a medalion just makes the game more immersive than having an icon on the menu saying "Level Complete". Even in games like Super Mario 64 you don't collect stars, you complete missions or objectives and the doodad is just your little trophy to keep track of doing so."
And I would argue you lost track of whatever you were thinking about. Medallions? Immersion? How are they any more useful than Prime's keys, items that have attachments to their respective games' histories and backstories that you always lovingly scan for, and are even utilized as keys during whatever gate opening ceremony during the story? In addition, Prime's keys are more relevant to the effort the player puts in - you get the keys by DOING THINGS - they're evenly guarded by puzzles and challenges just like any other power-up in the Prime games. They're also a reinforcement of the non-linearity of the Prime games, regardless of what whiners say about backtracking. If you were truly EXPLORING, the rewards aren't always predictable, and that mystery adds real fun. Primes' keys can be found before the halfway mark of the game, long before you even get an explanation. Medallions/whatever are pretty much expected after some *early* story sequence tells you how many there are. Gee, what a surprise, I am so filled with purpose now, even after getting the 8th one.
I would argue the lack of "keys" in recent [GameCube] Zeldas is what allowed so much linear hand-holding BS to get into the dungeon designs. If there's a reason to explore different areas and directions of a place (finding scattered keys), then we wouldn't be stuck with dungeons that show you where the exit is all the time.
If you were to talk about random doodads, it should be about Zelda's useless rupee chests and maps that lead to MAPS. These things waste time and are a waste of good puzzles and hopelessly outnumber all the keys in the Prime Trilogy. Tell me what the obvious function of 500 rupees I can't carry is. You went exploring for this junk, did you not?
Please tell me more DEKU NUTS give you some purpose. How do you continue to pretend being a Nintendo gamer?
*And sweet goodness, Chef Unagi really understands it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2011, 06:56:50 PM
Pro I think there is a miscommunication here. I was talking about the essential dungeon items and how I could grab those and leave and continue exploring the game world. The way you worded it I thought you were comparing THOSE items to the useless junk in Metroid Prime, thus I considered it applies and oranges.
I don't like looking for useless junk in any game and Zelda has been guilty of that. Not so much in the older games. It's the newer ones that have the problem.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2011, 08:24:41 PM
Maybe there was a miscommunication. My original statement regarded the idea of sequence breaking you brought up: exploration upon acquisition of a key item.
Applied to the Prime series, you have the opportunity to make "future" progress by thoroughly looking for surprises. You end up solving the "end" of the game before you're presented with the objective. You knock down most of the bowling pins by exploration, leaving easy spares remaining. You've shortened or streamlined the final stretch of the adventure.
They're not useless (tho they don't have utility) because the exploration "got you somewhere" even tho you stepped off the main course to DISTRACT yourself.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: EasyCure on January 16, 2011, 09:24:16 PM
Isn't selecting Hard a self-handicap? You chose to make it harder. I see no difference.
Ian's words
Seriously, man, after a certain point your arguments get soo mind numbing its hard not to consider them BS. I do my best not to give you **** for it with some backhanded remarks, but after catching up on this thread since about page 44, I just had to make SOME remake. Still, I'm keeping civil here and simply nitpicking/ranting about your post rather than taking the jerk route..
edit: so.. I read the master sword theory (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-legendary-puzzle-a-linear-history-of-the-master-sword/#more-15884) that was linked a few pages back, pretty interesting stuff. The only thing I wanted to point out was, and please not that it has been almost 5 years holy ****! since I played Twilight Princess, so some of the details pointed out I actually don't recall too well..
(I'll spoiler tag this just in case)
So according to the theory presented..Wind Waker makes a point to differentiate humans and hylians..? I don't recall this AT ALL so I'm not going to touch that. It mentions something that I do somewhat recall; Hylians have pointed ears that let them (or at least used to) hear the gods/goddess. I don't remember this being brought up in WW but I do remember at least one NPC in OoT that does. On top of that, it was actually mentioned in the Alttp manual, but we know that NA manuals (at the time) can't be considered canon). Anyway, I don't ever recall any game mentioning humans as a race separate from hylians; considering races like the Kokiri, Zora's and Gorans I always just assumed Hylians were an enchanted version of humans for the purpose of this fictional world and honest to god don't recall a game mentioning a human.
With that said, the whole bit about Shad's book in TP mentioning the Oocas as a race closest to the gods and being the creators of Hyrule.. because I don't know the game script, and it's not quoted in the article, it's really hard to grasp the context so I'd like to present an alteration to the theory. All the speculation about Skyward Sword's story, and some of the known facts like it being confirmed as an origin story for the master sword, have people saying that the Oocas in TP are some sort of de-evolved form of an ancient race that created the Hyrule we know and love(and not the Hylian race, which according to the Zelda Wiki was a mistranslation in the English version of the game.) What if Shad was wrong in his translation though? What if being "closest" to the gods/goddesses was misinterpreted? Instead of believing there was an ancient, advanced, race that created Hyrule and technology that somehow lost contact w/Hylians and devolved into these birdlike creatures of moderate intelligence, what if the Hylians themselves were that race? The book Shad found could've mistaken the Oocca as the ancient race because they're whats left up there in the sky city, but perhaps the original Hylians were the advance race and were perhaps cast out by the gods/goddesses from the sky world (skyloft) to the earth realm. Or what if they're not the "closest" race to the gods/goddesses in a sense that they're descendants of the gods/goddesses but just literally, the CLOSEST race to them and thus why they were able to hear their voices [I don't recall a single instance in any Zelda game where a character actually receives a message from or speaks to the gods/goddesses].
Taking that into consideration; I feel like it's a more valid theory that the Oocca aren't a devolved ancient race that used to be superior. They're probably a form of evolved cucco raised by the original Hylians if anything. Looking at that scope of the sky city, or it's technology (the dominion rod) ever being created/wielded by the Oocca or what sort of extreme devolution could of occurred to turn them into the chicken-like creatures we get to see. We know Skyword Sword is the master swords origin story, we know Links adventure will be starting in this newly shown sky-world, so it's safe to assume Link was born there, of people similar to him (unless there's another vague orphan story like in OoT). I'd say that gives my theory as much creedal as any other, no?
aaanyway, just throwing that out there for discussion and to somewhat debate what was theorized in the linked article. I actually don't know much about SS's story aside from what I read about in the link above, I'm actually not following the game news much; aside checking for a tentative release date from time to time. I just happened to be bored enough to read through this thread, but I'm tired of being a nerd so I'll end this post here.
Discuss.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on January 17, 2011, 02:32:54 AM
I would like to see multiple Links in a game with the style of Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword similar to the Four Swords games.
In Twilight Princess when Midna or some one else mentioned that the Twili were banished by a group of people called the "Anchient Ones" for trying to reach the Sacred Realm. are are the Anchient Ones? My theory is that the anchient ones are the rulers of Sky Loft and the progenitors of the Twili will be mentioned or revealed in Skyward Sword as a rival faction the Anchient Ones.
Here is my theory on the Ooccca and a youtube video pertaining to Skyward Sword:
I heared that was a good game. You should try out The Legend of Zelda: The Last Gaurdian as well.
I'm waiting for the wii zapper follow up, The Legend of Zelda: Link's BFG Training.
Nintendo needs to let Miyamoto do that Terminator-inspired Zelda game he's been dreaming of for the past decade No they don't.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on March 02, 2011, 12:54:11 PM
So lets talk about Zelda! Graphics and character designs are awesome! Those Moblins and Stalfos look great! One thing that I think I am seeing is that the enemies have life in them again like in WW, I hope they react to different weapons again. Links movements look allot more fluid as well. Too bad no flying elements were shown.
Seems we'll have certan puzzles that involve fitting object A into hole B appropriately. I know we've seen it before but this is a bit more Zack and Wiki, in that you have to use your hand to twist and turn it just right to fit the piece. Would be cool if we had to put object A together first.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on March 02, 2011, 02:55:54 PM
Skyward Sword just has the Zelda look down perfect. It doesn't look like a damn cartoon and it doesn't look like all super serious either. It looks like if you brought A Link to the Past into 3D and is that not how Zelda should look? The Wind Waker fans would always try to sell me on that look being more accurate to the original 2D games and I always felt they were full of crap. I just did not see the connection at all. But THIS looks right. Hopefully Nintendo has now found the ideal look that will satisify both camps and this just won't be an issue anymore.
Looking at the trailer I was just getting that exciting "YEAH ZELDA!!" feeling. Right now I feel pumped as I write this. It reminds me of why I ever became a Nintendo fan in the first place. I've had friendships where at times things were rocky but then there would be little moments where it was like old times and I'm reminded why we became friends in the first place. My fandom of Nintendo has been VERY rocky this generation. But right now I'm excited about Zelda. It's a little moment that shows the potential for Nintendo to connect with me as a gamer. They have the ability to make videogame magic when they want to.
But as pumped as I feel, I cannot hide this feeling in the back of my head: "please don't control like crap." With the control scheme they're going for the potential to have an unplayable mess is very high. And what an utter waste that would be; to have a great game locked behind poor controls. If there was ever a time for Nintendo to sell me on motion control THIS IS IT. After all the talk about new standards and the future of videogames, and after delivering nothing but waggle and glorified mini-game collections, this is the game where they have to show that this ain't a marketing gimmick and it ain't all hype. Like how Super Mario 64 proved the concept of the analog stick, this has to prove the concept of Motion+ and motion control in general.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on March 02, 2011, 03:38:00 PM
Well, I've seen the trailer now, and yeah it looks an awful lot like a Zelda trailer. It strikes me just how unaffected I am from it. The game looks fine graphically and the combat looks like Nintendo's finally taking the Wii Motion Plus seriously (too much in some cases, as there are some things in that trailer that look like they only exist to be hit with Wii Motion Plus sword techniques), but there really isn't anything in that trailer that made me stop and go "Man, I can't wait to do THAT!!! That's so cool!" Either Nintendo's still holding the coolest aspects of the game to release at a later date (highly likely), or this is again just a Motion Plus iteration on Ocarina of Time. :-\
I hope we see more trailers with more new features in the near future.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 02, 2011, 03:44:59 PM
In case anybody missed it here is the trailer.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TojcKpf4Nqs
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on March 02, 2011, 04:00:18 PM
Well, I've seen the trailer now, and yeah it looks an awful lot like a Zelda trailer. It strikes me just how unaffected I am from it. The game looks fine graphically and the combat looks like Nintendo's finally taking the Wii Motion Plus seriously (too much in some cases, as there are some things in that trailer that look like they only exist to be hit with Wii Motion Plus sword techniques), but there really isn't anything in that trailer that made me stop and go "Man, I can't wait to do THAT!!! That's so cool!" Either Nintendo's still holding the coolest aspects of the game to release at a later date (highly likely), or this is again just a Motion Plus iteration on Ocarina of Time. :-\
I hope we see more trailers with more new features in the near future.
^That is what I think most of us are worried about. Again I bring Galaxy 2 up, aside from Yoshi, one could barely tell the difference between the first and the second. As the real media from the game came out I decided to not look at almost any of it. So when I got the game red hot chilly pepper sprints, toungue whipping aireals, Cloud jumping with long jumps, that boulder, or all those blarges in melty monster gave me such a thrill that was totally unexpected! I was literally shouting "yahoo!" after every star until some started to get rediculously difficult.
My point being that this was specifically stated to be a combat trailer. And it looks like it works, and if its better than what I played at E3 I am totally sold. It's just with very little other actions being shown, story elements or new items we can only assume its going to take a typical Zelda route.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on March 02, 2011, 04:23:47 PM
I like the sword play in that trailer.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 02, 2011, 04:29:41 PM
A graphical style that is a cross between Wind Waker and TP is enough to make me excited for the game. I have little doubt there are going to be some very innovative puzzles as well that utilize motion.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on March 02, 2011, 04:31:38 PM
Quote
It strikes me just how unaffected I am from it. The game looks fine graphically and the combat looks like Nintendo's finally taking the Wii Motion Plus seriously (too much in some cases, as there are some things in that trailer that look like they only exist to be hit with Wii Motion Plus sword techniques), but there really isn't anything in that trailer that made me stop and go "Man, I can't wait to do THAT!!! That's so cool!" Either Nintendo's still holding the coolest aspects of the game to release at a later date (highly likely), or this is again just a Motion Plus iteration on Ocarina of Time.
When I read that, it makes total sense. Aside from the graphics there isn't anything in the trailer that really stands out.
But for me Zelda and Metroid are king. I was very disappointed in Other M and the DS Zeldas. So thinking about it, it's been a while since I really sat down and enjoyed the **** out of a new game in either series. Beggars can't be choosers and suddenly my priority is to just play a GOOD Zelda game. Yeah I don't just want more Ocarina of Time but if the option is that or some touchscreen controlled mess, it's clear what I would prefer. It isn't good that it should come to that but I was pretty excited watching the trailer today and I think that's why.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 02, 2011, 04:36:04 PM
It strikes me just how unaffected I am from it. The game looks fine graphically and the combat looks like Nintendo's finally taking the Wii Motion Plus seriously (too much in some cases, as there are some things in that trailer that look like they only exist to be hit with Wii Motion Plus sword techniques), but there really isn't anything in that trailer that made me stop and go "Man, I can't wait to do THAT!!! That's so cool!" Either Nintendo's still holding the coolest aspects of the game to release at a later date (highly likely), or this is again just a Motion Plus iteration on Ocarina of Time.
When I read that, it makes total sense. Aside from the graphics there isn't anything in the trailer that really stands out.
But for me Zelda and Metroid are king. I was very disappointed in Other M and the DS Zeldas. So thinking about it, it's been a while since I really sat down and enjoyed the **** out of a new game in either series. Beggars can't be choosers and suddenly my priority is to just play a GOOD Zelda game. Yeah I don't just want more Ocarina of Time but if the option is that or some touchscreen controlled mess, it's clear what I would prefer. It isn't good that it should come to that but I was pretty excited watching the trailer today and I think that's why.
Can't believe I am going to say this, but I agree. I do not care for the handheld DS Zeldas, and I personally LOVED Twilight Princess to me it was Ocarina of Time only better. It and Wind Waker are my two favorite 3D Zelda's. Regardless of the route the game takes I will no doubt love (mostly) every minute of it. The Zelda series is one of those, that even when ranked, they are so close in quality that there is no one game that is massively better then the other. Perhaps the only exception to me was Majora's Mask but I admit it is a very good game, just not what I was looking for in a Zelda title.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 02, 2011, 05:28:23 PM
I'm afraid my first impression from the latest trailer is... how boring. I was initially excited that Motion+ would be used for combat, but it doesn't seem very exciting the way they implemented it. There's a sentiment among some that Zelda has become too much of a puzzle game the last decade; well this looks like puzzle combat. Where's the feeling of 'kicking-butt'? It's slow, and it's like you're following a conductor - slash this way, pause, now slash this other way.
As for the graphics, I was satisfied with what I saw at E3 last year. But I'm not feeling some of the textures used, for example, the brick walls. Everything seems to blend too much. Hopefully this is simply a result of the video quality.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on March 02, 2011, 06:10:41 PM
I think the trailer wasn't put together well and that is why we're all feeling 'meh' about it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on March 02, 2011, 06:17:02 PM
It was supposed to be a combat exhibition rather than a full synopsis trailer.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on March 02, 2011, 06:48:33 PM
It was supposed to be a combat exhibition rather than a full synopsis trailer.
The problem is that there wasn't anything really all that spectacular about the combat. You can slice in different directions now, and that's required to fight certain enemies. We've had something like that since Ocarina of Time (remember taking out the Deku plants?) You want to impress me with the combat, and show that Zelda is taking a step forward? Show Link flying around in the air (assuming he can in this game as suspected), and then go into a dive and end with his sword jabbed in a monster's head or skewering one's belly depending on how his sword is aimed during the dive. Despite there being a noticeable increase in combat precision, it doesn't really look all that different. I think Nintendo held back too much with this trailer.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on March 02, 2011, 08:04:28 PM
Let's not forget that in the trailer's attempt to showcase the combat, it seemed extremely slow. There were huge lags between sword swipes. This is especially true when you compare it to the Twilight Princess trailer.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MaryJane on March 02, 2011, 08:04:40 PM
The evolution in combat comes from Motion-Plus.
Everyone poo-pood Nintendo for not having 1-1 motion, now that they have it, and have it in one of their best (imho their absolute best) franchises it's not enough? Having said that, I hope there are lots of enemies and bosses that I can hack at anyway I choose and not in a predetermined pattern. Also, this wasn't E3, its GDC, and the purpose of this trailer (and the Mario 3DS tease) is to show developers the kinds of things they can do on the system.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 02, 2011, 08:38:25 PM
I think Nintendo held back too much with this trailer.
Well yeah, this isn't E3. The whole point of this trailer was to tease everyone so you'll be more exited to see what they have instore at E3. It's the exact same thing they did with Twilight Princess back in 2005.
Jeez people, be happy we actually got a new trailer because Nintendo could have easily just waited until E3 to show everything like they normally do. Anyone who was expecting anything more from the trailer other then a few new locations and enemies which we got was delusional at best since Nintendo has shown for many years now that unless it's E3 or the game is a month away from release, they're not going to reveal that much.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on March 02, 2011, 10:37:09 PM
God those TP trailers kick so much ass. The TP GDC trailer also made me realize that they cut a lot out of the game because half those enemies and areas aren't used.
As for this new trailer, I can see why people are complaining. First off the music isn't as epic as one expects during a Zelda trailer. And most of the video we saw didn't have a cinematic touch to it, like aerial view shots or pan and tracking shots. Most of the video is how we will see the game.
So that's probably two major reasons why people didn't feel energized. The third is that it's a demonstration trailer and not a hype trailer. So you aren't going to need an epic orchestral sonnet or cinematic views in the first place.
I thought the trailer was great. My favorite part about it is the sheer number of enemies presented. Except for the Stalfos (?), every enemy Link attacked was different.
Can't wait to see what the bosses are like.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on March 02, 2011, 10:46:38 PM
Everyone poo-pood Nintendo for not having 1-1 motion, now that they have it, and have it in one of their best (imho their absolute best) franchises it's not enough?
Exactly.
Actually fighting as Link was probably everyone's childhood fantasy when they played the original nes games. I imagine it was the same for you as well (yes, especially you). There have been only two games that really use the M+ as a sword (Resort, Red Steel) and people act like having a Zelda game like this isn't something special. Take off your jaded gamer glasses for minute and think about it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on March 02, 2011, 10:50:19 PM
It's not 1-1 motion... it detects orientation, but it simplifies it down to vertical and horizontal directions, probably for accessibility purposes.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on March 02, 2011, 10:55:16 PM
I wonder if they'll give you the option to try 1-1 for yourself...
But wait this is Nintendo, so nevermind.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on March 02, 2011, 11:06:55 PM
It's not 1-1 motion... it detects orientation, but it simplifies it down to vertical and horizontal directions, probably for accessibility purposes.
Except the new trailer shows diagonal slashes as well and you are able to do things like spin the sword around the eye to open a door as well as stab.
The difference is incredibly slight and it seems like you are basically arguing semantics.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on March 02, 2011, 11:14:01 PM
You're right that there's a certain component of 1-1 for pointing and such, but when it comes to swinging, it's still basically gesture-based.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on March 02, 2011, 11:26:44 PM
So the game basically corrects a slash to be slightly straighter. I'm not seeing a problem here.
The new enemies look really cool. I especially like the big guy whose shield you can cut through and the spider you have to knock up than stab.
How do you think the tight rope walking works? I understand the balance is probably the remote but how do you knock the other guys off?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on March 02, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
Not slightly. There's a totally different strategy between actual swordmanship and slash left, right, and down. Unless things have changed a lot, there will be a lot of gimmick enemies based on left/right/down swinging.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on March 03, 2011, 12:15:29 AM
Not slightly. There's a totally different strategy between actual swordmanship and slash left, right, and down. Unless things have changed a lot, there will be a lot of gimmick enemies based on left/right/down swinging.
Yes, slightly. I can see the videos and with all the ways slashes are made, there simply isn't enough difference to have things changed more than slightly. Also there are far more than the three diffent ways to slash you mention.
Guess what, this isn't actual swordsmanship. If it was we would need motion+ for our feet because they are pretty much the most important part. Much like Resort they brought the mechanics of the fights to an intuitive level.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on March 03, 2011, 12:19:36 AM
When I played it, it only had 90-degree directions. The new trailer shows 45 degree cuts, so that's more hopeful. The problem remains that there aren't any subtle motions -- you still have to swing it hard to make a swing; there are no partial swings or mid-swing changes/arcing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on March 03, 2011, 12:28:17 AM
The new trailer has up, down, left right and at least 45 degrees in all directions. I didn't realize how much wasn't in the first demo so it's possible that it isn't locked into those paths at all.
When you talk about partial swings and stuff you are talking about the fighting mechanics not the motion controls. It's their decision to control what you can do in the game since you are not actually holding a sword so you don't have the limitations the actual character does, nor do most people have swordfighting expertise. (Frankly with a sword like Link's I don't think most of them would be possible or desirable)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on March 03, 2011, 12:35:09 AM
As somebody who really enjoyed the Sword Fighting in Red Steel 2, I am looking forward to this.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on March 03, 2011, 03:15:22 AM
Looks like the sword girl is the new Navi, and look at the fat Moblin, Link has a harp as a musical item. Also guys there is a strange bar next to the shield icon. Doesnt look like magic at all as it doesnt seem to change in the trailer.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on March 03, 2011, 04:19:25 AM
Looks like the sword girl is the new Navi, and look at the fat Moblin, Link has a harp as a musical item. Also guys there is a strange bar next to the shield icon. Doesnt look like magic at all as it doesnt seem to change in the trailer.
Maybe your shield can break sort of like how it could burn away in OoT. I would like differen't shields that get better and more durable as they get better.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Traveller on March 03, 2011, 05:55:11 AM
Im pretty sure he never uses the shield in the trailer aswell.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MaryJane on March 03, 2011, 09:21:41 AM
I can see where MB is coming from. It would be cool to cut semi-circles into an enemy's head, or carve your initials in a tree, but the swordplay dynamic of this game is still leaps and bounds above any other Zelda game. And those actions I mentioned could still be possible. What it seems like to me, is that when you target an enemy your strikes translate to compass points, but otherwise it's pretty much 1-1 motion. So if there are enemies who don't require a specific death-strike maybe we can carve our initials in their heads.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2011, 12:34:58 PM
The issue with the sword fighting is Nintendo has to find a balance to keep the game playable. Zelda isn't some hardcore sword fighting game. It's more about having an adventure and fighting is only an element of it. If you do really accurate sword fighting you're pretty much asking the player to know how to sword fight in real life. It would be like requiring you to actually know how to play an Ocarina in real life. So there is going to be some leeway. The game has to help you a bit.
I just want to feel like what I do has a real effect on what happens on the screen. If it's just gestures, it's crap. That's just taking what Ocarina of Time already had and making me work harder to get the same results. I'm not impressed with waggle. The novelty value has zero effect on me and it's less precise than digital buttons and in a game like Zelda where I will be playing for several hours at a time I don't want to be waving my arms around constantly. The amount of additional effort required by motion control has to be worthwhile. The fun and entertainment of it should make it worth the hassle. If it's just waggle, it isn't worth it and I'm just going to be annoyed that Nintendo doesn't provide me the option to map the gestures to buttons.
If you could just map it to buttons, it's a failure. It's worthless. It has to be such that you're playing and thinking "this couldn't be done any other way". With Super Mario 64 I never thought "they should just give me a run button". It was clear that that just would not work. But with the Wii? Aside from the Wii Series I usually feel that not only could you map the waggle to a button but that the game would control BETTER as a result. So this should be such that having traditional controls just would not work and also that making Motion+ a requirement was absolutely necessary and worthwhile.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 03, 2011, 01:04:07 PM
That new trailer did nothing for me.
It could have been the low capture quality, but I'm just not sold on it through that trailer.
Also WTF is up with the big ass Wiimote all over the right side of the screen? I hope you can make it smaller, reduce it down to just the buttons for those of us not unfamiliar with the Wiimote setup and have the option to just remove it altogether if we chose to.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 03, 2011, 01:18:28 PM
BlackNMild if memory serves that type of thing was on the screen at E3 for Twilight Princess. Pretty sure it will be gone once the the game releases.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on March 03, 2011, 03:27:36 PM
Also WTF is up with the big ass Wiimote all over the right side of the screen? I hope you can make it smaller, reduce it down to just the buttons for those of us not unfamiliar with the Wiimote setup and have the option to just remove it altogether if we chose to.
They said at E3 2010 that you'll have the option to remove the HUD altogether if you wanted.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on March 05, 2011, 07:11:13 PM
I want to watch the trailer because of the discussion in this thread, but I also don't want to get excited for something that's still a long time from release. What to do, what to do... ???
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on March 05, 2011, 07:13:33 PM
I just say watch it. If you get happy great, if you feel dissapointed well at least your expectations will be low leaving room for many unexpected surprises.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 07, 2011, 02:31:33 PM
This game is getting that magical look that Zelda has lost over the years!
Sky Loft confirmed! A cloudy over world! Flying on birds confirmed! Entire game is like a big dungeon! Weapons can be upgraded! Instead of constant rupies, you find horns and such which can be used to power up weapons. Graphics are better than GDC's showing.
Looks amazing I am finally excited!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 07, 2011, 02:38:34 PM
Flying on birds confirmed! Entire game is like a big dungeon!
Those to got me. That's exactly what I've been wanting since WW came out.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on June 07, 2011, 02:40:52 PM
SS flying looks a lot funner than the sailing in Wind Waker. I'm really excited to play this for myself.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 07, 2011, 02:41:49 PM
The guy who was demoing the game looked and sounded genuinely excited. He's like "and there are puzzles everywhere, the whole game is like one big dungeoun!" Paraphrazing but it looked great. I expect to see quite a bit behind closed doors.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 07, 2011, 02:43:48 PM
He did sound flustered at one point didn't he? I remember specifically when he said something to the effect of "I could talk for 30 minutes about whats new in this game."
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 07, 2011, 02:44:23 PM
May I please ask where you're getting these new details from? I feel out of the loop, and my internet connection has gone awol, so it's difficult to keep up with everything that's going on.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 07, 2011, 02:45:21 PM
It was a demo shown off to GameTrailer folks.
I'm sure NWR will have impressions up tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 07, 2011, 02:50:40 PM
Can't wait to hear how everyone else pisses on it. I wasn't too excited at the first 2 trailers but this looks and sounds great! Finally got exactly what I wanted in a Zelda game, a brand new way to explore in flight!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 07, 2011, 02:51:43 PM
I wonder if we'll get a horse and boat again (even if the boat is just for fishing).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 07, 2011, 02:52:44 PM
I thought I saw a horse and boat... maybe I day dreamed.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 07, 2011, 02:54:06 PM
I'd find out but the damn press kit won't download!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on June 07, 2011, 02:57:07 PM
I downloaded some of the press kit. I can't extract it though. I tried it on both PC and Mac. Yes, I have programs that extract zip files. Boo-urns.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on June 07, 2011, 02:58:02 PM
Like one big dungeon? So they really did make it more like Metroid?
I do like having non-dungeon areas as well but if they can break the usual formula and do something a little different that would be cool.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 07, 2011, 02:58:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4BHmFDBzMk
Trailer. Didn't notice the end and some of the bosses. Looks amazing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 07, 2011, 03:00:20 PM
Hey, I be very interested if its not as barren as the other 3D Zeldas.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 07, 2011, 03:06:18 PM
Zelda Montage trailer with EPIC orchestra giving me goosebumps every 10 seconds.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on June 07, 2011, 03:14:59 PM
I abstained from watching the videos as I don't want to get myself hyped just yet. From what I see in this thread though, it sounds pretty awesome. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 08, 2011, 02:16:03 PM
I'm digging the environments this time around. TP just played it so safe in terms of non whimsicle places to visit. These areas are by no means at a galaxy level but it is something different. I wish the majority of the clouds didn't look like toxic polution clouds but that could just be from the time of day, it still is refreshing to see Link above them.
The typical rocky mountain land has an interesting look as well with the big old tree growing through everything. And 2 of these dungeon like areas have really colorfull locations that I really wanted to see in TP. It was just too earthy for me in that game, the pure earth tones are here as well but at least there is an example of instant bright change. Seeing the lava boss in that area looks a bit fresher than usual as well.
And that little thing with a bulbusaur/ivysaur back side appears to be the new Oocoo. Not creepy at all, this guy I wont mind seeing throughout the game. Look for plushes of that thing to turn up at every anime convention next year.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on June 09, 2011, 01:25:30 AM
i forgtt caterkiller lives in LA lol, and gets into e3 because he is a Ninja
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 09, 2011, 01:48:28 AM
Yeah I do, but i'm only describing what I see in the trailer. The studio I worked on Star Wars and Dragon Age with told me to call them monday or tuesday about a possible ticket, I waited way too long. By tuesday morning I had so much fun in the chat with NWR guys I was too lazy to attempt to get my ticket. Chances are I would have been left out anyway, next year for sure. Though I was looking forward to using my secret haunted parking spot.
Look for E3 2011 Live Demo, can't link directly for some reason.
Quote
Of course you'll be looking for dungeons and be expecting to be finding items in dungeons, but this entire game is practically a dungeon... Just to get to the dungeon is a practically dungeon in and of itself. There are puzzels everywhere within the dungeouns without the dungeons... Every aspect of this game is sort of infused with puzzleness... The structure of dungeons is very different, you'll find yourself coming back into a dungeon that you were in previously...
Listen to this guy talk about Zelda! He also addresses stupid treasure chests with nothing but rupies.
BlackNMild, this guy confirms Sky Loft, who came up with that rumor and what else did they say? Maybe they know of other things that just werent shown at E3?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 09, 2011, 06:27:24 PM
Miyamoto thinks the Zelda Wii U will be difficult.
Quote
However it is safe to say Nintendo is working on a Zelda title for the new console. Zelda Informer (http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/06/miyamoto-zelda-will-be-harder-to-make-wii-u-designed-for-one-controller-still-experimenting.html) quote Shigeru Miyamoto discussing the difficulties he faces in making a Zelda title for the Wii U. In the News Corp interview he rather simply states that it will be more difficult to make and not elaborating any more on why.
My paste button isnt working but its at www.n-europe.com
My belief is that if Skyward Sword goes over well and it most likely will, he wont know if he should support buttons and the pad, or motion plus and sword fighting strategies. I think it should be multiplayer, and the tablet controls some kind of fairy that can fly around and do stuff. I da know.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2011, 02:29:53 AM
Watching video feed of the game on Gametrailers, one thing really stuck out to me: man, Link's sword animations are terrible. I remember reading a lot of complaints about this in last year's E3 demo, but I thought they'd be fixed by now. Watching footage, when he swings his sword only his sword arm seems to move and it moves extremely jerkily when slashing, leading to a very unnatural swinging motion. Is anyone else bothered by this? I find it really distracting.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on June 10, 2011, 02:34:56 AM
I really like Zelda's design, it is lovabley innocent. I keep seeing this GIF of the bad guys tongue sticking out but I can't find the video. Is there a video of it somewhere?
"Ian Sane's dupe account" has to be the most appropriate title I've ever seen
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 10, 2011, 01:35:51 PM
Miyamoto:
Quote
If this wasn't the best Zelda ever, then maybe we'd be done making Zelda games.
He laughs while saying but still he said it.
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=15722
Cool footage as well of things we havn't seen.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 10, 2011, 02:20:55 PM
Watching video feed of the game on Gametrailers, one thing really stuck out to me: man, Link's sword animations are terrible. I remember reading a lot of complaints about this in last year's E3 demo, but I thought they'd be fixed by now. Watching footage, when he swings his sword only his sword arm seems to move and it moves extremely jerkily when slashing, leading to a very unnatural swinging motion. Is anyone else bothered by this? I find it really distracting.
No I am not bothered, I didn't even notice it, nor really care.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ymeegod on June 11, 2011, 02:29:22 AM
Wonder how many people are going play this on the WII or wait for it in HD on the WII U?
Kinda sitting on the fence on this one myself. My aunt wants an WII for her kids so I might just give mine up. I would have to wait a year but at least I'll have an good reason to buy the U.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on June 11, 2011, 02:47:18 AM
Wonder how many people are going play this on the WII or wait for it in HD on the WII U?
Kinda sitting on the fence on this one myself. My aunt wants an WII for her kids so I might just give mine up. I would have to wait a year but at least I'll have an good reason to buy the U.
I'm not convinced at the moment that Nintendo will make 2 versions. Unless their Wii U launch lineup is pretty pathetic, I think they would view a dual-release as confusing. This is a game heavily leveraged on Wii MotionPlus motion control, so there really wouldn't be a benefit to having a version with tablet controls for the new controller. They'd have to redesign the game's puzzles and combat to incorporate traditional controls for the tablet controller, and at that point why bother?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 11, 2011, 02:21:51 PM
This game will be out at least 6-8 months before the WU, so I wouldn't count on an HD update at all. Well especially since they said over and over this game will only come out for Wii.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kairon on June 11, 2011, 05:35:37 PM
It wasn't until this latest trailer that I actually started getting excited for this game.
I'm LOVING the art style, and Zelda's new look!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on June 12, 2011, 08:10:55 PM
I forgot to mention I saw one enemy afraid of a bomb. Some of us were discussing that realism that was in the WW, well I'm certain I saw it in one of the many videos floating around.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: EternalRain on June 12, 2011, 08:24:45 PM
wow, im really excited for the new zelda since it reminds me alot of ocarina of time/majoras mask, i guess its finally time to buy a wii :D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 13, 2011, 08:08:28 AM
I really thought the motion controls didn't help the game. They were frustrating, added difficulty and just did stuff you wouldn't expect.
It didn't help that the boss they made lasted way too long, was ugly, did nothing "cool" and seemed out of character for Zelda. Felt like a turn based, slow paced, predictable, boss fight that TOLD ME when I could do damage. Seriously, when he would jump away, I clearly hit him, but they was like, nope, thats a dash.
The "dungeon" they made was not very interesting. Lots of a dead ends which ended up with constant, tedious use of the Beetle. It was allll one room >.< with uninspired little caves around the edges filled with rupees. Sucked 'cause you'd burn 1 minute looking through each cave only to get 20 rupees.
It was the e3 disappointment for me. Even though the booth babes said I was beating everything way faster than other people, I still felt the enemies needed more tweaking and should have been easier. For example, those directional flowers shield themselves wayyy to much, I spend 30 seconds+ trying to kill one before I learned my lesson and just ignored them. It was another case of thinking it'll hit and work, but the bastard dodges/blocks your **** anyway.
Title: August release?!
Post by: Caterkiller on June 14, 2011, 12:05:14 PM
Could Europe be getting Nintendo's epic Wii swansong sooner rather than later?
Despite official lines emanating from E3 telling us to expect The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword at the end of the year, a curious anomaly has cropped up. A poster on NeoGAF has observed (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28574340&postcount=2974) that Nintendo of Europe's official press website has the game currently listed for an August 2011 release.
While the press site is usually (almost always) notorious for being full of placeholder information for games, the release schedule page is otherwise fairly up-to-date, with correct release dates for recent and upcoming titles such as Dead or Alive: Dimensions (May 20th) and Solatorobo (July 1st).
However, it also seems to state a block of other big games heading for a release in the same period, with Kid Icarus: Uprising pegged for summer and Super Mario 3DS and Fortune Street also labelled as August titles. It's hard to believe all these games are launching so close, so don't expect this one to stick.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 14, 2011, 01:05:15 PM
Good, the sooner they get this out, the sooner they can get started on the next version.
Zelda universe 2014 here we come.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 14, 2011, 01:23:32 PM
I think the next iteration is going to have EAD scratching their proverbial beard. If Skyward Sword is a success in terms of reception of controls, then how do you utilize the new controller? If the controls are so good, then it would seem like a step back to play with buttons instead of motion.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: EternalRain on June 14, 2011, 06:52:46 PM
but wouldent that only apply to the person him/herself? i mean not everyone can use move ex- disabled people, im sure they would like to play without motion control . . .
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 14, 2011, 06:56:20 PM
If you are talking about having more options, then sure. But when they build the next Zelda game, I doubt that all this tireless work to make SS the end all example of how Wii can be used in a hardcore game will be thrown out the window.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on June 18, 2011, 03:43:27 AM
REGGIE is going to be on Jimmy Fallon's show soon (west coasters) supposedly to play Skyward Sword... but he just mentioned 3DS and Wii U too.
The show intro was all pixelated like an early 90s game.. it was interesting, do they always do that?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on June 18, 2011, 08:21:57 AM
I got Wii Play: Motion yesterday and found that "Trigger Twist" ("Shooting Range" from Wii Play with MotionPlus controls) uses M+ based pointing instead of the IR pointer. It's a bit disorienting at first because I've been hardwired to point directly at a screen for four years, but it allows you to point anywhere, giving you full 360 degree control. Given that Zelda will use something close to this type of control, I recommend checking it out in order to get a feel for the new system beforehand.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on June 18, 2011, 11:12:12 PM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 22, 2011, 12:29:50 PM
Further details on the soundtrack divulged by Koji Kondo. Not too long ago, we heard the Skyward Sword would be using an orchestra for certain songs. Here's some more tidbits.
The short version: Orchestra being used where it is considered appropriate, but Kondo-san still says his main tools are an electronic piano and a Mac. He assures us that there's a wide variety of styles represented. He also mentions the other notable composers working on the game. Hajime Wakai (Star Fox series, Pikmin series, Zelda: Wind Waker) is the music lead and Mahito Yokota (DK: Jungle Beat, Mario Galaxy games) is also on board.
Magnificent news. Having Hajime Wakai in charge of the music is perhaps a sign that songs will have more of a celtic vibe, as they did in Wind Waker.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 03:06:24 PM
Does this game take place before or after Minish Cap? They're both origin stories but we all know how confusing the Zelda timeline can be.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 03:08:22 PM
I always assume Zelda stories are like Geological time frames apart so, it really doesn't matter the order.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 03:12:11 PM
Yeah I've also heard a theory that states since it's a legend the story has been altered as time passes and descendants and other people tell the tale. Meaning that all the games are different versions of a similar story.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 03:25:45 PM
Yeah I've also heard a theory that states since it's a legend the story has been altered as time passes and descendants and other people tell the tale. Meaning that all the games are different versions of a similar story.
That is a cool interpretation but, that would make WW have a Legend within a Legend.
But then the longest string I definitely believe in is OoT -> OoT:MM -> WW -> PH -> ST
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 03:28:53 PM
It's like Inception! Oh god Iwata said we need to go deeper lol.
But seriously technically Ocarina of Time split the Timeline into the World where Adult Link bested Ganon which leads to Twilight Princess then Wind Waker. and the world where he never beat him because he put the master sword back which leads to Majoras Mask.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on June 22, 2011, 03:52:10 PM
You have it confused. According to Aonuma, the timeline is split between Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. Majora's Mask would be in the Twilight Princess timeline.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 03:56:03 PM
You have it confused. According to Aonuma, the timeline is split between Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. Majora's Mask would be in the Twilight Princess timeline.
I thought it kept as a direct sequel to OoT. Throwing out MM isn't really a big deal.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 03:57:05 PM
Then why are the sages from Ocarina on the stained glass in Windwaker? And what game takes the other split after Twilight Princess, Windwaker and what other game?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 03:58:15 PM
Then why are the sages from Ocarina on the stained glass in Windwaker? And what game takes the other split after Twilight Princess, Windwaker and what other game?
Because OoT is in WW's timeline.
By my understanding its:
Kid OoT -> Adult OoT -> WW -> (WW and ST so, is Tetra's game)-> PH -> ST (Tingle Games are somewhere in here) || OoT:MM -> Twilight Princess
Zelda I -> Zelda II -> (Most of the Satelleview ones)
LttP -> Link Awakening (Because the game started as a GB port of LttP)
Oracle
Adult OoT isn't in TP's timeline by my understanding.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 03:59:38 PM
OK but them what event in Twilight could trigger the split?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 04:00:49 PM
I editted my above post.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 04:03:11 PM
But according to your chart the Split occurs in Ocarina. Which is converse to what Megabyte said Aonuma said.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 04:06:33 PM
And what game takes the other split after Twilight Princess, Windwaker and what other game?
I'm not sure what you're asking so, here: OoT -> MM -> TP `-> WW -> PH -> ST
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 04:09:43 PM
I have concluded that Toon Link has been bar none the busiest of the Links.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 22, 2011, 04:10:59 PM
When Young Link went back to his own time at the end of Ocarina, that is what caused the split. Since the Master Sword got resealed, Ganondorf wasn't able to get the Triforce the same way he got it in Adult Links timeline. Of course he somehow eventually got it in Young Links timeline but the sages sealed him away in the Twilight Realm before he could take over Hyrule like in Adult Linkds timeline.
This is why Ganondorf in Twilight Princess has no memory of anyone like Link because he never fought Link in that timeline. Where as Wind Waker Ganondorf did nothing but compared WW Link to the Hero of Time since he got his ass kicked by him hundreds of years earlier.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 04:13:07 PM
So then the split occured in Ocarina and not Twilight, correct?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 04:14:27 PM
Yep.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 04:16:28 PM
So the split occured in Ocarina but separated Twilight from Windwaker.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 04:17:58 PM
I think the next iteration is going to have EAD scratching their proverbial beard. If Skyward Sword is a success in terms of reception of controls, then how do you utilize the new controller? If the controls are so good, then it would seem like a step back to play with buttons instead of motion.
A shield attachment that holds the uMote attached to a nunchuck in your hand. Wiimote+ is your sword. Shield screen will also be used for aiming your bow, they can actually get even more immersive if they want.
They don't need to go back to buttons for the next Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 04:20:13 PM
Ok I thought Megabyte meant that the split occured in Twilight. Also how does young Link get out of Termina?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 04:20:39 PM
I think the next iteration is going to have EAD scratching their proverbial beard. If Skyward Sword is a success in terms of reception of controls, then how do you utilize the new controller? If the controls are so good, then it would seem like a step back to play with buttons instead of motion.
A shield attachment that holds the uMote attached to a nunchuck in your hand. Wiimote+ is your sword. Shield screen will also be used for aiming your bow, they can actually get even more immersive if they want.
They don't need to go back to buttons for the next Zelda.
Or Splinter off another Timeline that uses the Wiimote style and let the Toon link be the traditional Hardcore controls. Oh the delicious irony of saying that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 04:21:14 PM
I've played every Zelda game and beaten all but Zelda 2.
Ok, he goes back to being a child at the end so effectively Link the person OoT is his past but the Timeline he is in Future making the split. Everything in his past on the adult side never happened in the timeline he ends up in. While WW is in the timeline that was Links original Timeline and the Adult things did happen. Twilight Princess is in the Timeline where Adult Link never Happened.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on June 22, 2011, 04:29:15 PM
So do you think the Skyward sword controller will come in a bundle or will it be able to be purchased separately?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on June 24, 2011, 03:27:40 PM
I would think both. Skyward Sword is most definitely going to have M+ or a M+ controller bundled.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2011, 03:47:24 PM
I'm seeing it as an expensive Club Nintendo Reward and a Pre-Order\First day Gift.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on June 24, 2011, 04:34:51 PM
Yeah I still need an M+ so a bundle would be good.
If they do that first day bullshit like with the OoT soundtrack I'm going to be PISSED! Canada often sucks at getting games the same day as the US so I could get gypped out of it even if I buy it on the first day I could. But considering how universally unpopular that idea was I would hope Nintendo would not do it again.
A whole controller would seem excessive since Nintendo would probably jack up the price because of it. I just need the M+ attachment. I already have all the controllers I want.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2011, 04:38:26 PM
Yeah I still need an M+ so a bundle would be good.
If they do that first day bullshit like with the OoT soundtrack I'm going to be PISSED! Canada often sucks at getting games the same day as the US so I could get gypped out of it even if I buy it on the first day I could. But considering how universally unpopular that idea was I would hope Nintendo would not do it again.
A whole controller would seem excessive since Nintendo would probably jack up the price because of it. I just need the M+ attachment. I already have all the controllers I want.
lol, I couldn't keep a straight face on that one. I think NoA would consider that a Pro.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on June 26, 2011, 09:38:10 PM
heres my take,
Nintendo doesnt always care about the plotline, and keep re-inventing it.
If you think about it, there should be a game in between mm and WW that answers what happens if link grew up outside of the sacred realm. That would be badassed.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mac<censored> on June 26, 2011, 10:28:59 PM
Nintendo doesnt always care about the plotline, and keep re-inventing it.
Wait, Zelda has a plot?!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sundoulos on June 26, 2011, 11:10:26 PM
At this point, I've come to equate Zelda with something like Norse mythology. There's a number of stories with a sort of an overarching narrative to it all, but you have to perform some major acrobatics in order to make the pieces fit together cleanly.
The fact that the responses on the split timeline theory varies depending on which Nintendo employee you ask doesn't help matters at all.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2011, 08:13:01 AM
At this point, I've come to equate Zelda with something like Norse mythology. There's a number of stories with a sort of an overarching narrative to it all, but you have to perform some major acrobatics in order to make the pieces fit together cleanly.
The fact that the responses on the split timeline theory varies depending on which Nintendo employee you ask doesn't help matters at all.
Aonuma (Sp?) First game was OoT and thats the start of anything resembling a long term timeline.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on June 27, 2011, 02:43:37 PM
If Skyward Sword is successful and its control system becomes a staple of the series then I would love to see a better motion control system used for future titles in the series. This is one reason why I want Nintendo to produce a real successor to the Wiimote. Something similar to the Move controller in terms of precision and better controls than Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2011, 02:50:10 PM
If Skyward Sword is successful and its control system becomes a staple of the series then I would love to see a better motion control system used for future titles in the series. This is one reason why I want Nintendo to produce a real successor to the Wiimote. Something similar to the Move controller in terms of precision and better controls than Skyward Sword.
It could be less precise then Move as long as it was just as reliable as the Wiimote. Move is well.. When it works it works well but that's when it it works.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on June 27, 2011, 03:00:28 PM
If Skyward Sword is successful and its control system becomes a staple of the series then I would love to see a better motion control system used for future titles in the series. This is one reason why I want Nintendo to produce a real successor to the Wiimote. Something similar to the Move controller in terms of precision and better controls than Skyward Sword.
It could be less precise then Move as long as it was just as reliable as the Wiimote. Move is well.. When it works it works well but that's when it it works.
Nintendo would have to make the Wiimote 2.0 more precise and as functional as possible, but I see the Move controller as a challenge to the Wiimote, so Nintendo had better be smart and step up to the challenge.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sarail on June 27, 2011, 07:26:21 PM
If Skyward Sword is successful and its control system becomes a staple of the series then I would love to see a better motion control system used for future titles in the series. This is one reason why I want Nintendo to produce a real successor to the Wiimote. Something similar to the Move controller in terms of precision and better controls than Skyward Sword.
It could be less precise then Move as long as it was just as reliable as the Wiimote. Move is well.. When it works it works well but that's when it it works.
Nintendo would have to make the Wiimote 2.0 more precise and as functional as possible, but I see the Move controller as a challenge to the Wiimote, so Nintendo had better be smart and step up to the challenge.
Ugh, just... no. I want that sword back in Link's left hand -- where it belongs. I'm sick of gimmicky motion control. Wind Waker's battle system was tight, responsive, and hella cool with the finishing blows. Expand on that, and make it better. Darksiders did a pretty good job of it... so the next Zelda can, too.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on June 27, 2011, 07:51:45 PM
What I want is for Zelda to be cutting edge in that it is constantly the top standard for its genre. That means it has to be less formulaic. When people are suggesting with a straight face that Darksiders or Okami do Zelda better than Zelda, then Nintendo isn't doing it right.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 27, 2011, 08:25:37 PM
What I want is for Zelda to be cutting edge in that it is constantly the top standard for its genre. That means it has to be less formulaic. When people are suggesting with a straight face that Darksiders or Okami do Zelda better than Zelda, then Nintendo isn't doing it right.
Anyone that says Darksider is a better Zelda game is a troll and shouldn't have their opinion counted. To say Darksider is a better Zelda game than Zelda is like saying Sonic 2006 is a better Mario games then Mario.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on June 27, 2011, 09:58:53 PM
What I want is for Zelda to be cutting edge in that it is constantly the top standard for its genre. That means it has to be less formulaic. When people are suggesting with a straight face that Darksiders or Okami do Zelda better than Zelda, then Nintendo isn't doing it right.
I never understood all the Okami love. It's okay and has great style but beyond that I don't see it. The beginning is absolutley horrible. People who say that Twilight Princess had a slow beginning obviously never waded through this army of movies, tutorials and stupid bug guys. Worst of all all combat is locked into some kind of magical room. Worst decision ever.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on June 27, 2011, 10:15:45 PM
What I want is for Zelda to be cutting edge in that it is constantly the top standard for its genre. That means it has to be less formulaic. When people are suggesting with a straight face that Darksiders or Okami do Zelda better than Zelda, then Nintendo isn't doing it right.
I never understood all the Okami love. It's okay and has great style but beyond that I don't see it. The beginning is absolutley horrible. People who say that Twilight Princess had a slow beginning obviously never waded through this army of movies, tutorials and stupid bug guys. Worst of all all combat is locked into some kind of magical room. Worst decision ever.
I'm in the same boat: I thought Okami was ok...ish, but it felt rather slow and dull. In fact, I found the game so dull that I could never bring myself to do the End Game section and beat the game, something I managed to do with even Twilight Princess (and Twilight Princess' Sky Temple is almost as dull as some of the stuff in Okami). Okami had some good ideas, but the execution just didn't do anything for me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mac<censored> on June 27, 2011, 10:45:57 PM
What I want is for Zelda to be cutting edge in that it is constantly the top standard for its genre. That means it has to be less formulaic. When people are suggesting with a straight face that Darksiders or Okami do Zelda better than Zelda, then Nintendo isn't doing it right.
I never understood all the Okami love. It's okay and has great style but beyond that I don't see it. The beginning is absolutley horrible. People who say that Twilight Princess had a slow beginning obviously never waded through this army of movies, tutorials and stupid bug guys. Worst of all all combat is locked into some kind of magical room. Worst decision ever.
And despite all the whining from the usual suspects, Twighlight Princess is an amazing and cool game, and the accusations of "same old same old" ring really hollow. Yeah it contained a lot of Zelda tropes, but the game felt hugely different than other Zelda games.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on June 27, 2011, 10:52:07 PM
What I want is for Zelda to be cutting edge in that it is constantly the top standard for its genre. That means it has to be less formulaic. When people are suggesting with a straight face that Darksiders or Okami do Zelda better than Zelda, then Nintendo isn't doing it right.
I never understood all the Okami love. It's okay and has great style but beyond that I don't see it. The beginning is absolutley horrible. People who say that Twilight Princess had a slow beginning obviously never waded through this army of movies, tutorials and stupid bug guys. Worst of all all combat is locked into some kind of magical room. Worst decision ever.
And despite all the whining from the usual suspects, Twighlight Princess is an amazing and cool game, and the accusations of "same old same old" ring really hollow. Yeah it contained a lot of Zelda tropes, but the game felt hugely different than other Zelda games.
How? It followed the Zelda formula practically to the letter, and in the rare occasions it deviated it just became more tedious IMO (such as when hunting for the spirit drops in the Twilight Realm). Aside from probably the Water and Desert Temples (ironically), I found the dungeon design to be oddly lacking as well. Adding waggle with the Wii version didn't help matters, either. Twilight Princess wasn't a bad game, but it just felt like Zelda Going Through the Motions to me. At least Midna was cool, though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mac<censored> on June 28, 2011, 12:11:08 AM
And despite all the whining from the usual suspects, Twighlight Princess is an amazing and cool game, and the accusations of "same old same old" ring really hollow. Yeah it contained a lot of Zelda tropes, but the game felt hugely different than other Zelda games.
How? It followed the Zelda formula practically to the letter, and in the rare occasions it deviated it just became more tedious IMO (such as when hunting for the spirit drops in the Twilight Realm). Aside from probably the Water and Desert Temples (ironically), I found the dungeon design to be oddly lacking as well. Adding waggle with the Wii version didn't help matters, either. Twilight Princess wasn't a bad game, but it just felt like Zelda Going Through the Motions to me. At least Midna was cool, though.
It was vastly more immersive than previous zeldas, and had a sense of style and drama that the series never really had before. The vibe was very different, melancholy and world-weary, and even scary, and the twilight is wonderfully realized (running along the rooftops in wolf form in the very beginning is magic). [Other games have used the "dark realm" shtick, but rarely as effectively as this.]
Midna is indeed a great character, unlike the silly/inconsequential/annoying sidekicks and NPRs in previous games; unlike them, she's not only charismatic/mysterious/interesting, but amazingly real.
Despite all the familiar tropes, it felt like a completely different game to me.
[The closest thing was OOT, but although the time-travel thing was interesting, OOT's general aesthetic was much more mundane, and the platform simply lacked the technical oomph to pull off the 3d environment very well.]
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sarail on June 28, 2011, 12:23:26 AM
What I want is for Zelda to be cutting edge in that it is constantly the top standard for its genre. That means it has to be less formulaic. When people are suggesting with a straight face that Darksiders or Okami do Zelda better than Zelda, then Nintendo isn't doing it right.
Oh, I'm by no means saying that Darksiders does "Zelda" better than Nintendo (although, I really do love the game). However, Darksiders has several gameplay mechanics that work incredibly well... that I could see benefitting the actual Zelda series. As for motion, the only motion-related gameplay I enjoyed (and think works phenomenally well) is the IR aiming for the bow/hookshot/slingshot. I'd be perfectly fine with keeping that. Just put that freaking sword back in his left hand, for crying out loud! :P:
Also, Twilight Princess is my favorite console Zelda hands down. :) And yes, I played the Wii version with the waggle. But despite that, what mac<censored> listed above is all so very true. The game oozes with personality and character. There's this real sense of urgency in the land of Hyrule. I felt a bit of suspense at certain points of the game. And Midna quickly became one of my favorite Nintendo created characters because of this game. Also, I thought every dungeon was fantastic -- I just wanted to see more use out of Link's new Spinner toy. There should have been SO many new gameplay options created because of that thing... but nope. Only a select few instances... ugh.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2011, 12:28:24 AM
Seeing as, with a couple exceptions, every new Zelda game stars a different Link, there really isn't a reason he has to be left-handed in all of them.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sarail on June 28, 2011, 12:33:06 AM
But he's left-handed in the GameCube version -- the original form of the game! So yes, he's been left-handed in all of them. Skyward Sword is the one breaking the mold. He's a southpaw because Miyamoto's a southpaw. No excuse to change that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2011, 12:41:23 AM
But there is an excuse. Just because you don't like the reason they're doing it doesn't mean it's not a legitimate reason.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on June 28, 2011, 09:39:26 AM
I agree with broodwars. The core of Twilight Princess is Ocarina of Time through and through. Being the 3rd 3D sequel, ideas that were fresh in 1998 felt exhausting 8 years later. Twilight Princess felt like a direct response to Wind Waker's radical departure, except Nintendo addressed the wrong thing first. Sure, some people found the cel shading off-putting, but at its most basic level, Wind Waker was Ocarina of Time. Twilight Princess was even more of that. It felt like Ocarina of Time 2 more than even Majora's Mask, a game built on the same exact engine. I can't speak for anyone else, but I wanted a game that made me feel the same way I did when I played Ocarina of Time for the first time which, I'll admit, is a very tall order. Like A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time changed the way I viewed videogames. I haven't felt that way about a Zelda game since.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 28, 2011, 04:27:04 PM
It was vastly more immersive than previous zeldas, and had a sense of style and drama that the series never really had before. The vibe was very different, melancholy and world-weary, and even scary, and the twilight is wonderfully realized (running along the rooftops in wolf form in the very beginning is magic). [Other games have used the "dark realm" shtick, but rarely as effectively as this.]
Midna is indeed a great character, unlike the silly/inconsequential/annoying sidekicks and NPRs in previous games; unlike them, she's not only charismatic/mysterious/interesting, but amazingly real.
Despite all the familiar tropes, it felt like a completely different game to me.
[The closest thing was OOT, but although the time-travel thing was interesting, OOT's general aesthetic was much more mundane, and the platform simply lacked the technical oomph to pull off the 3d environment very well.]
Nicely said. Even though Twilight Princess shares a few traditional Zelda tropes, it still manages to add quite a few new things and was put together in a way that made it a very different game then Ocarina of Time. Not to mention when compared to most videogame sequels, Twilight Princess still added more over it's predecessor then about 98% of all other sequels on the market, which makes complaints about it being more of the same rather hypocritical since most of the people who complain about it are also praising other series that are far more guilty of the same thing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2011, 04:32:26 PM
It was vastly more immersive than previous zeldas, and had a sense of style and drama that the series never really had before. The vibe was very different, melancholy and world-weary, and even scary, and the twilight is wonderfully realized (running along the rooftops in wolf form in the very beginning is magic). [Other games have used the "dark realm" shtick, but rarely as effectively as this.]
Midna is indeed a great character, unlike the silly/inconsequential/annoying sidekicks and NPRs in previous games; unlike them, she's not only charismatic/mysterious/interesting, but amazingly real.
Despite all the familiar tropes, it felt like a completely different game to me.
[The closest thing was OOT, but although the time-travel thing was interesting, OOT's general aesthetic was much more mundane, and the platform simply lacked the technical oomph to pull off the 3d environment very well.]
Nicely said. Even though Twilight Princess shares a few traditional Zelda tropes, it still manages to add quite a few new things and was put together in a way that made it a very different game then Ocarina of Time. Not to mention when compared to most videogame sequels, Twilight Princess still added more over it's predecessor then about 98% of all other sequels on the market, which makes complaints about it being more of the same rather hypocritical since most of the people who complain about it are also praising other series that are far more guilty of the same thing.
I would say yes that TP is more of the Same in different ways but, it is a different beast then OoT. I should probably play it again, after I finish WW... I do think though without the N64 limitations OoT would have been more like TP.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on June 28, 2011, 05:41:33 PM
Quote
running along the rooftops in wolf form in the very beginning is magic
Oh man, I HATED that part. The whole time I'm like "DAMMIT when does this game start for real?!!" TP took it's sweet time getting going.
TP was the first Zelda where as I was playing I was calling out what was going to happen before it happened. About halfway in I looked at my incomplete map and FILLED IT IN MYSELF. I knew EXACTLY where everything was going to be. That's how close it followed OoT's template. "There's Death Mountain, Lake Hylia will be over here..." The sky dungeon was the one exception for obvious reasons.
I think something like insisting that Link be left handed is part of the problem of the Zelda series. The series has introduced so many tropes and it's like every game has to check them off and that leaves less and less room for new ideas. Link doesn't have to be left handed, he doesn't have to have a horse named Epona, he doesn't have to get a hookshot at some point, he doesn't have to visit Gorons, he doesn't have fight Ganon EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME. All these details are unnecessary and if you didn't have them it would still be Zelda. I would say the only mandatory constants is that the main character is a elf-looking guy named Link who wears a green tunic, has a sword and shield, and goes on some sort of adventure. And the mandatory gameplay elements are that the game has to be one big open world (as opposed to linear levels) and that interaction with the world is done in realtime. Those gameplay elements are what gives Zelda its appeal and those details about Link are the barebone elements that makes the character recognizable in the first place. Once you start mandating that there has be Death Mountain and Link has to get the Master Sword at some point, you are pigeonholing the series and restricting creativity. That turns Zelda into a formula, when it should only be a broad outline.
By the way, I personally don't feel that Darksiders or Okami are better than Zelda, but I do encounter that opinion a fair bit on non-Nintendo boards.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on June 28, 2011, 06:13:26 PM
I would say the only mandatory constants is that the main character is a elf-looking guy named Link who wears a green tunic, has a sword and shield, and goes on some sort of adventure.
I wouldn't even say that is mandatory, even though Link is the only constant in the entire series. I don't think anything should be "mandatory" because that's where you get caught in the trappings of predictability. A Zelda game without Link? Blasphemy. That would be like if they made a Zelda game without the Triforce, Master Sword, Ganon/Ganondorf, Hyrule or Zelda... Nintendo doesn't have to rely on characters, locations, items, or macguffins as if they're ingredients for some Zelda recipe.
I remember the exact moment I stopped being impressed with Twilight Princess. Even though I read Ganondorf would make an appearance, I realized the game was taking no chances once he showed up. Things like Zelda "dying" weren't surprising because I figured, "Ehh, she'll be back" and lo and behold, she was... inexplicably.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 28, 2011, 06:17:32 PM
I was thinking that there's no way we'd have to fight Ganon again in Skyward Sword since it seems to take place before OoT. But on the other hand, Miyamoto doesn't really care for continuity between the games, so putting Ganon in SS could serve as the death blow to any kind of sensible continuity. I guess it's up in the air.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mac<censored> on June 28, 2011, 06:56:35 PM
Hmm, isn't the reported lack of explicit dungeons in TSS a good sign that maybe it's going to reduce the use of hoary old Zelda traditions a bit? [not that I mind them so much, but it'd be cool to see some new directions...]
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on June 28, 2011, 07:35:13 PM
Quote
I wouldn't even say that is mandatory, even though Link is the only constant in the entire series.
Well they have to sell the game still, right? Is there really much point in using the "Legend of Zelda" name if you don't even have the main character in it? I figure a Zelda game without Link would be unmarketable.
One problem is that the same company that uses Mario like Garfield and just shoves in whatever, makes Zelda and Metroid which have a certain style that does not lend themselves to the same sort of generic use. Mario has always been popular but his games are pure gameplay so the franchise does not have the same emotional attachment. Zelda and Metroid's open world design emphasize exploration which allows the player to have a better connection to the world presented. Mario's world are just obstacle courses. Zelda and Metroid have virtual worlds. Therefore slotting in "Bowser kidnaps the Princess" in as the generic narrative works because no one is playing Mario for anything but to jump around through obstacle courses anyway. Note that they aren't so generic with the Mario RPGs because with that type of gameplay that methodology would not work. It would become tiresome.
Nintendo used to (likely by complete fluke) treat Zelda and Metroid differently. All Zelda and Metroid games were "real" games in the series. They didn't have spin-offs and releases were not that frequent. Now they will make spin-offs and releases are more frequent. Metroid currently has some problems but that's not because of generic design. Zelda however is made by EAD, the same dev that makes Mario, and they have made the series use more of the generic Mario design philosophy. It doesn't work with Zelda. Since the exploration of the world is such a key selling point you can't use the same Hyrule and the same story and the same villian every time without it losing its novelty. The details are such a major part that having a lazy approach to it greatly compromises the game, far more than it ever does with Mario. With Mario it very much feels like EAD pulls some lame story and setting out of their ass at the last minute. It feels more and more like they do that with Zelda and they can't. Link can't be a generic mascot and Zelda can't be a game where the world is slapped together at the last minute. You need to create a world that matters to the player. No one sees Zelda as a bunch of obstacle courses like they do with Mario.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on June 28, 2011, 09:46:57 PM
Well they have to sell the game still, right? Is there really much point in using the "Legend of Zelda" name if you don't even have the main character in it? I figure a Zelda game without Link would be unmarketable.
Probably about as unmarketable as a Metal Gear game without Solid Snake or a Castlevania game without a Belmont. Neither of those things have ever happened, right? Come on, man... Snake Eater features neither Solid Snake nor a Metal Gear. "Oh, well, Big Boss is pretty much Solid Sn..." NO, HE'S NOT SOLID SNAKE. Metal Gear Solid Rising apparently stars Raiden exclusively and if the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4 is anything to go by and Konami doesn't reboot the series, we're probably not seeing Solid Snake suit up again either (unless they do some more **** with nano-machines or something...).
Alternatively, Other M stars the series main character, is called Metroid, includes many of the series signatures like missiles and different beams yet it's the least Metroid-y Metroid in the series. Say what you will about the quality of the game, but none of the previously mentioned things, namely the presence of its main character since you brought it up, changed anything. Point being, having this character or that isn't what makes a series, especially when the fundamentals of its themes are curb-stomped beyond recognizability. Other M AKA Are-You-There-God,-It's-Me-Samus turned our favorite bounty hunter into a stupid asshole.
Is there really much point in using the "Legend of Zelda" name when Princess Zelda doesn't even show up? Link's Awakening is essentially The Legend of NOT-Zelda because she's not even in the game. Furthermore, the entire set-up for The Wind Waker revolves around the consequences of Link NOT appearing. Does Nintendo have the balls to pull off an Empire Strikes Back-esque ending? The point is something is only mandatory if you make it mandatory. A Zelda game without Link isn't inconceivable because there's more to the series than the characters that make up its world.
What if Nintendo told the origin story of The Wind Waker's flooded world? For the purposes of this example, let's say the player takes the role of a girl, later revealed to be Princess Zelda who FAILS to stop Ganondorf then her father, King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, begs the gods to flood the world. Would you call that game not a Zelda game just because it didn't feature Link? Narratively, it takes places in Hyrule and fits snugly in the series loose canon, explicitly tied to one of the main games. Thematically, a lone hero is tasked with saving the world from the forces of evil (what every Zelda game is basically about). Nintendo could do a lot of things with that set-up. They could take the easy way out and just outfit Zelda with things Link traditionally picks up. Or they could make a game in which players had no idea what would happen next, yet it would unquestionably be a Zelda game. What if Nintendo didn't reveal it to be the prequel to The Wind Waker before the game's release? At the end, we watch the ocean flood the land of Hyrule. Jaws be dropped, bricks be shat.
That sense of unpredictability is part of what's missing in Zelda today. In A Link to the Past, Ganon made his second appearance. Who knew? That was cool 20 years ago. Now, it's expected and when he shows up, I'm like, "This motherfucker AGAIN?!"
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 28, 2011, 11:46:21 PM
A Zelda without Link would be a much bigger departure than either of the two examples you mentioned. Maybe that's because it's been the same for so long so that it would be a bigger shock, or maybe it's because Nintendo games tend to have such simple stories that using a different main character would pretty much make it a different series, but it would definitely be a bigger deal.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on June 29, 2011, 12:17:15 AM
It should be a big deal and a shock. That's kind of the point so you have no (or at least, fewer) expectations for what might happen (pretty much the opposite of what Zelda games are today), but I don't think it would make it a different series for reasons previously stated in my last post. The protagonist isn't what define a series so much as the atmosphere and themes. If Nintendo replaced Link with an alien in a mech suit, yeah, that's ridiculous. However, placing sword and shield in Zelda's hands because plot wise Link never appears doesn't make the series unrecognizable.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2011, 01:09:22 AM
Okay, yeah, you could do a game with Zelda as the protagonist, or Ganondorf, or maybe a couple other characters, and still be Zelda. I thought you meant just invent a brand new character for it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on June 29, 2011, 01:57:21 AM
Well, I guess Nintendo could replace Link with a brand new character, but they shouldn't do so for the sake of doing so. There would have to be a damn good reason otherwise, why do it? That doesn't inherently change anything because it'd just be Link in different skin which would be totally besides the point. I brought up a Wind Waker prequel because that's the only time it's stated in the entire series that Link doesn't appear. That's a perfect spot to place a new protagonist though I feel like Zelda taking up the mantle in Link's stead would be far more resonant with fans and totally worth the payoff.
Hmm, then again, I guess scratch that. Any place you could conceivably replace Link with a new character would be better off having Zelda herself replacing him.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 29, 2011, 03:19:57 AM
Eiji Aonuma Returns to Famitsu Live (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=34981.msg683895#msg683895)
Quote from: NWR
The Legend of Zelda series producer will discuss Skyward Sword later today.
Eiji Aonuma will appear on a special Famitsu Live broadcast at 8 p.m. Japan Standard Time today (6 a.m. EDT, 3 a.m. PDT, June 29). The Nintendo producer will be discussing his upcoming Wii title, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ymeegod on June 29, 2011, 06:10:53 AM
The combat in Okami was the one weak link to an otherwise great game IMO. Your moveset was limited and your paintset for the minor guys was always the same set patterns so all you had to do was fight with the controls to get it right.
But the best part of Okami was the fact it was an action/adventure/ hybrid and fankly there's not to many of them. It's similar to BG&E where fans want something other than Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2011, 10:13:06 AM
Well, I guess Nintendo could replace Link with a brand new character, but they shouldn't do so for the sake of doing so. There would have to be a damn good reason otherwise, why do it? That doesn't inherently change anything because it'd just be Link in different skin which would be totally besides the point. I brought up a Wind Waker prequel because that's the only time it's stated in the entire series that Link doesn't appear. That's a perfect spot to place a new protagonist though I feel like Zelda taking up the mantle in Link's stead would be far more resonant with fans and totally worth the payoff.
Hmm, then again, I guess scratch that. Any place you could conceivably replace Link with a new character would be better off having Zelda herself replacing him.
You know why not swap their roles entirely. Let Zelda save Link. Have the Flamboyant Leader Link being saved by the Down to Earth Peasant Zelda. Of course Zelda would be a descendant of the old Hyrulian Monarch line you find out later but, since that lineage has not been in power for generations it is unknown to her. For added fun throw in the Trains from Spirit Tracks.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2011, 10:17:19 AM
How would you change the gameplay to fit the new character? Because if it's just the same game, but with Zelda instead of Link, it's a pointless change.
Title: Aonuma talks Skyward Sword
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 29, 2011, 10:41:29 AM
Aonuma talks Skyward Sword -=Minor Spoilers Ahead=- but not really http://www.1up.com/news/eiji-aonuma-wraps-zelda-skyward (http://www.1up.com/news/eiji-aonuma-wraps-zelda-skyward)
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- In this game, Zelda starts out as a childhood friend of Link's -- and not royalty. "She's not a princess this time," Aonuma said, "which is something I'll pretty much have to put forth right now in order to talk about this title. She's a childhood friend, but she goes away in the midst of the game and it's Link's job to search for her."
- The starting plot unfolds quite a bit differently from other Zeldas. "This game's plot is something like a school drama, you could say," Aonuma noted with a laugh. "The flying sequence at the E3 demo is Link competing against his classmates. One of them looks kind of a like a bad guy, as you saw, and he shows up in other ways in the game too, since he has a major thing for Zelda."
- Despite this, though, the game progresses in a somewhat similar fashion to a previous Zelda title. "The game starts in Skyloft, this city that's floating in the air, and you'll come back to this town multiple times," Aonuma said. "Things are always proceeding along in town, and in that respect it's very much like Majora's Mask. Like with Majora, there are a lot of game events involving the townspeople that get intertwined with the main story. Link, Zelda and their other friends all go to the same boarding school, and you've got teachers and a principal as well. It's a bit of a different setting from previous Zeldas."
- Aonuma's team is making a deliberate effort to give Link new items -- like the boomerang-beetle in the E3 demo -- early on in Skyward Sword. "With previous Zeldas," he said, "the common pattern was that the really neat items wouldn't show up until later on in the game. You need to have the basic item set or it wouldn't be Zelda, so the new items tended to get shunted to the latter part of the game. [Shigeru] Miyamoto said that had to change, like 'This is neat, let's bring it out from the start.' So a lot of neat new items will show up pretty early on."
- Is Skyloft the entire 'world' in this game? "Yes, it's only the people in Skyloft," Aonuma responded. "Nobody on there thinks anything of it, though, because living in Skyloft and flying around on birds is normal to them. They don't have any awareness of there being a mainland beneath the clouds and so forth -- that gets expanded upon once Zelda goes missing, and you get access to the areas under the clouds."
- Does everyone in Skyloft have their own personal avian transport? "It's the custom for each person to have one bird. Link has a red one, and it's actually a special and very rare breed of bird -- which is something that makes him get picked on, like 'Why do you get this fancy bird and we don't?!' But it turns out that you need that red bird in order to access the mainland. So the hand of fate gets involved here, like it always does in Zelda games sooner or later."
- Ghiraham, the enemy Link fought in the E3 demo's boss battle, is definitely going to be an important character in Skyward Sword. "The demo shows when you first meet him, and plainly he's looking down at Link, stopping his sword with his fingers and so forth," Aonuma noted. "In terms of story image he's kind of like Dark Link [from Ocarina of Time]; he sees right through Link's moves in battle. You can sort of swing your sword wildly and still hold your own against a lot of foes, but there's no way you can beat Ghiraham like that. You need to keep your distance and watch his moves, and it's something you'll need to change your strategy for. I think he's a pretty good change of pace as bosses go, and he'll change gradually throughout the game."
- Will Ganon show up? "This game talks about the birth of the Master Sword, and it touches on why Ganondorf showed up. If you play it, I think you'll get some understanding on that. It connects to Ocarina, so if you play Ocarina of Time 3D and move on to this game, I think you'll catch on to a lot of things."
- How's development going along? "The whole game is complete, and we're fine-tuning the balance right now. We were going to have it wholly done by around E3, but there's so much volume to it, neither I nor Miyamoto have gotten to fully play out every aspect. The non-English localizations are proceeding along now, and we're trying to make this a simultaneous worldwide release. You have to put Zelda all out at once or else the story's going to get spoiled -- although, really, there's a ton to enjoy here even if you know a little about the story beforehand."
I've been purposely not keeping up on this title as I already know I'm gonna buy it regardless and don't really want anything about it spoiled. Everything here sounds good to me and my Black Wii will be dusted off just for this game ;D
(http://www.abload.de/img/nomurderzqwv.gif)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2011, 10:44:32 AM
How would you change the gameplay to fit the new character? Because if it's just the same game, but with Zelda instead of Link, it's a pointless change.
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... Have the Flamboyant Leader Link being saved by the Down to Earth Peasant Zelda. ...
You don't have to change the game play because one is a girl and the other is a boy. That's just sexist. The reason to do this is to be able to tell a different story, have characters who are different, show a change in the world, free up peoples perceptions, etc.
By your own rule a lot of Genres are pointless. One game in each should do fine. Now how many games do you Own?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
It has nothing to do with their genders. If you're going to change the character, that should have some effect on the gameplay, or else it's a meaningless change.
What I'm saying is I'd rather the character still be Link and have the game change than have it star Zelda but be the same game. That's not to say you couldn't do both, and that's what I was asking: how do you make the change from Link to Zelda a meaningful one beyond just story conceits?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on June 29, 2011, 11:04:20 AM
Zelda uses magic (rather than magic items like Din's Fire). I'd start there.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2011, 11:20:47 AM
I never noticed it before but the pic BnM has what is up with Links Lips.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on June 29, 2011, 02:00:54 PM
What about a Zelda game where you go on adventures with Anju/Kafei? Or maybe a transporter accidentally switches their bodies.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 08, 2011, 02:21:52 AM
Here is some more gameplay footage of the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8md9AaZiAPs&feature=player_embedded
Play is not that good but at least that way you can see more of the enemies attacks.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 08, 2011, 09:42:16 AM
Oh my, key turn piloting. I hate that in any game its been in. Not fond of how the UI is dominating that Right side. Not digging only 1 item at a time I see in this video. Is it just me or does that area feel claustrophobic even though its so open?
Edit: AI Dowsing Rod Sword. That is all.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mac<censored> on July 08, 2011, 10:32:21 AM
What is "key turn piloting"?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 08, 2011, 10:39:16 AM
I think Ceric means the use of flight but has very precise movements. So you yourself have to be very exact with controlling whatever is flying.
The only other flight game I can think up that did it well was Wii Sports Resort. There may have been others but I haven't played them.
Rayman Raving Rabbids does it as well. Zak and Wiki have not flying but motions that are the key turn style if memory serves. Their are a couple other games that use it but they are evading my memory at the moment. I just know any time I have used it for anything its been annoying at best and broken at worst. I haven't play Wii Sport Resort so it could have nailed it with the extra precision from the Motion Plus.
If you look at the how to steer graphic that is it but, basically hold your WiiMote straight so its perpendicular to your TV screen. Lean it left. Lean it right. That's Key turn. Not to be mistaken with tilt which is holding the WiiMote NES style and tilting the whole unit left or right like Mario Kart or the Excite series.
Honestly rather just hold the WiiMote straight up and move it left and right like a guage or switch since Switching to NES hold isn't really feasible.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2011, 12:14:01 PM
So "key turn piloting" is motion control flight like those bullshit bird levels in Super Mario Galaxy 2? I hope this is not at all an essential part of Skyward Sword. Motion control flight is broken garbage. In Super Mario Galaxy 2 I could at least skip those levels and still proceed. If I have to get past some shitty waggle crap in order to proceed in Skyward Sword, well the game is just plain going to be unbeatable for me. I'll drive to NOA headquarters myself and whip the disc at Reggie's face. That alone could ruin the game for me.
Now if it's just a heart piece, **** it, I'll live. I never 100% Zelda games anyway. Thankfully on the Wii U, Nintendo will likely never bother with that crap anymore (in favour of broken Phantom Hourglass controls, the way my luck goes).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 08, 2011, 12:16:39 PM
I've been playing Spirit Tracks so I'll use that instead of PH. If they just let me move with the D-Pad I would have no real problems with the rest of the controls. Its just the many times when I do something like try to navigate my Boomerange and walk off a cliff...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 08, 2011, 12:35:00 PM
Ian have you even played any Wii Motion + games? I'm just curious because if you go into Skyward Sword with the defeatest mindset you probably won't do that good even if you do have some experience with Motion +.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on July 08, 2011, 01:47:13 PM
Ian is racist against motion control. I'm not a fan of using motion control for driving either though. I still hope Nintendo both includes a Wii mote and a Wii U controller and Nunchuck in an NES include everything sort of way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 08, 2011, 02:03:06 PM
I couldn't find a single word that meant "Method of Control" to put an -ist on. I guess he could be a Controllist...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on July 08, 2011, 02:15:14 PM
I'm not terribly fond of the "key turn piloting" control myself. In Galaxy 2, I found the control to be rather finicky and hard to make precise movements. I'd much rather use a control stick for the flying, which I know from past games works just fine. For that matter, I'd prefer there to be button controls as well so I can use those when my arm gets tired of the Motion+ sword swinging, but I'm not going to get that either.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2011, 06:02:40 PM
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Ian is racist against motion control.
Hey, I have equal dislike against both white and black Wii remotes. ;)
A friend of mine has Wii Sports Resort so I have played with Motion+. I wasn't really impressed but Wii Sports is not my kind of game to begin with so Wii Sports Resort was never going to win me over.
To me motion control is like you present me with a car and ask me to drive it. The car doesn't have the standard pedals and steering wheel and instead has completely new control mechanics to learn. However the car itself does nothing new that a normal car doesn't already do. It's basically the same car with a new way to steer for no reason. Every time I'm fucking around trying to steer with motion control what is happening on the screen is no fucking different then what I could do with an analog stick. Same gameplay, different controls. Not only do I have to learn a new way to control the game but the original controls were already incredibly efficient, intuitive and accurate. Therefore if you change them for the sake of change you can only go down. The ideal standard was already there.
The reason casuals have been impressed is because they don't know that Wii Sports Tennis is basically Pong with waggle. They haven't seen the gameplay enough to realize that it's the same **** only with wonkier controls. That's why core gamers see the Wii (and Move and Kinect) as a joke because they know the illusion. They know it's just a button press mapped to a shake or an analog stick mapped to tilting or a mouse assigned to a pointer.
I can't help when playing these games but know how I COULD control it and how I would PREFER to control it that way but am denied the option because Nintendo knows if they provide the option it will expose the illusion.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on July 08, 2011, 06:31:42 PM
HAhahaAHa your posts get worse and worse every time!
Quote
The reason casuals have been impressed is because they don't know that Wii Sports Tennis is basically Pong with waggle.
*Applauds*
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 08, 2011, 07:25:53 PM
Actually, in Pong you had to control your own movement. There you have it people, Wii Sports has less gameplay than Pong. [/Ian]
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mac<censored> on July 08, 2011, 07:49:39 PM
I couldn't find a single word that meant "Method of Control" to put an -ist on. I guess he could be a Controllist...
I thought Ian just hated everything...
Ok, not true -- he clearly doesn't hate multi-page rants.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: bustin98 on July 09, 2011, 01:11:38 AM
So, there was talk of doing something new with Link and Zelda. IGN has an article talking about doing different things and one part mentions playing as Ganon. You know you're gonna lose, but its how you lose that makes the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on July 09, 2011, 03:19:48 AM
I've said it before but Skyward sword is using Resort controls as their baseline.
Flying sounds a lot like the plane game in resort. Whenever a new control method is revealed look at Resort first.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: walsh_Fever on July 09, 2011, 07:21:35 PM
I am soooo looking forward to this new Zelda game!! ;D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on July 11, 2011, 06:56:49 PM
I've said it before but Skyward sword is using Resort controls as their baseline.
Flying sounds a lot like the plane game in resort. Whenever a new control method is revealed look at Resort first.
I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why this control method makes sense. If the whole idea is to be more immersive, you don't fly a plane in real life by rotating and pointing your wrist. If that was Nintendo's goal, you should be holding the Wii Remote upright like a flight stick and steering it by tilting the remote, something oddly enough Zack & Wiki of all games got right. If I'm flying a bird in Skyward Sword, shouldn't I be doing something like mimicking holding the reins of the bird (holding the Wii Remote sideways); steering the bird by tilting the remote left or right; and spurring the bird by a quick shake of the remote? The Resort controls just don't make sense here.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 11, 2011, 07:09:02 PM
I've said it before but Skyward sword is using Resort controls as their baseline.
Flying sounds a lot like the plane game in resort. Whenever a new control method is revealed look at Resort first.
I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why this control method makes sense. If the whole idea is to be more immersive, you don't fly a plane in real life by rotating and pointing your wrist. If that was Nintendo's goal, you should be holding the Wii Remote upright like a flight stick and steering it by tilting the remote, something oddly enough Zack & Wiki of all games got right. If I'm flying a bird in Skyward Sword, shouldn't I be doing something like mimicking holding the reins of the bird (holding the Wii Remote sideways); steering the bird by tilting the remote left or right; and spurring the bird by a quick shake of the remote? The Resort controls just don't make sense here.
Unfortunately Lair has ruined that control for everyone. You have to wonder why certain control decisions are made.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on July 11, 2011, 07:23:50 PM
Unfortunately Lair has ruined that control for everyone. You have to wonder why certain control decisions are made.
Hah, I've never played Lair so it never occurred to me that that's basically what I just described. :D Still, the Motion Plus-equipped Wii Remote is in a whole other league than the Sixaxis when it comes to Motion control, so it could probably do those controls justice. Not having to do split-second turns like Lair had would help as well.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on July 11, 2011, 07:42:01 PM
As long as the controls are precise, functional and fun, then I do not care if my actions mimmick the screen.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on July 11, 2011, 07:43:32 PM
As long as the controls are precise, functional and fun, then I do not care if my actions mimmick the screen.
In which case, why not just allow us to use a control stick? Why even bother with motion controls for this? Save them for the swordplay, where it would actually make a difference.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on July 11, 2011, 08:05:24 PM
I must be one of the few who thinks flying with the gyroscope is actually more fun.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 11, 2011, 08:47:51 PM
Well, one thing I want to emphasize here, when talking about the Wii U Zelda HD experience, is that we really built it specifically to be an experience. The idea is using Zelda as the backdrop for one of these HD experiences, what kind of representation Zelda can make there. But this is really just to show people what kind of things the console can do. And so, it’s not necessarily the case that we would use that graphic style or depiction the same way we would in a new Zelda, when there is a new Zelda for the Wii U. Just like the map functionality that was also implemented in that experience - it’s simply us giving an objective look at the kinds of things that can be done with the HD hardware. And Zelda happened to be the filter through which we view it in that experience. So nothing is defined right now as far as how we’ll proceed.
It does bring up a question that I think we are examining and will continue to examine, which is “Looking at the capabilities that are in our hands, what kinds of gameplay possibilities are out there for a Zelda game that goes online, maybe something that goes multiplayer?” But it’s all about, for us, finding a clear direction to take that online functionality, to use that online functionality. Once we have that, I think things will move forward. But, until then, we’re in the process of really asking ourselves, “How will this be a natural extension - a natural and enjoyable extension of what makes the series the series?” So that‘s something for the Zelda team to continue to examine as we move forward.
But in general, the timeline for new hardware is actually shorter than the timeline for a new Zelda game. And because of that, when they don’t line up correctly - and that’s often the case - it’s extremely hard to coordinate getting that title out as a day one title. But when possible, of course it’s something that we understand is great and we like to do it. And, naturally, I realize that it is in some ways a problem that Zelda games take as long as they do. I would like to get them out faster. That’s something that I consider a personal challenge and it’s something that I look into.
I'd like some multiplayer Zelda adventures in 3D!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2011, 12:06:42 PM
This is cool. (http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/221178/skyward-sword-playable-by-public-for-first-time-at-comic-con/)
Skyward Sword at Comic-Con and a Big Chalk Art Zelda Drawing.
Title: Comicon Zelda Impressions
Post by: Caterkiller on July 26, 2011, 05:12:50 PM
So I played allot of Zelda at Comicon this weekend. My thoughts:
-Sword fighting is so much more engaging. I battled one Moblin and everywhere I swung he would block, I tried to just rush through him to get through the demo but it was like he knew where I would be swinging. So I had to cool it a bit, and just watch him for a moment. All I can is it is it EXTREMELY satisfying FOR ME to try and hit around the enemies guard. I noticed others just doing waggle as if it were TP, for some enemies it worked cause they got lucky, and sometimes it didn't. The majority of the people there were just waggling and I don't think they could really appreciate/comprehend what Nintendo was trying to do. I don't blame them since our minds have been trained for waggle after all.
What I really noticed is that it isn't so much of your arm in relation to the game, but where the remote is pointing. So as I fiddled with that I noticed if I point the remote up Link would hold it up and charge up, which was cool. I didn't have to raise the remote above my head, even though for some reason that felt better. When I moved my wrists alone I could see Link moving his wrists as well, as if I was in a light bulb screwing motion. With that being said sometimes I would swing and it would come out wrong. So I did some trial and error to really figure out how the remote and links arm were working together.
This is the best I can explain. Swing as frantic as you want (big swings or small), but make sure you follow through with a point of the wiimote. I noticed sometimes I would swing and link just did not do what I was expecting. For example I would swing with the remote facing forward, but if I added a bit of follow through pointing it in the direction of my swing Link's action would come out as expected.
What also makes it seem like it's no good from time is doing a vertical slash up or down. Most people naturally just rest their arm forward so that's why link always looks lame running in the videos with the sword leading the way. So from there some times I just could not make a good vertical slash up or down. What I found is that if the enemy guards in a way that you need to do a vertical slash, point the remote up or down first to get the sword ready for the motion. The vertical slash was unreliable when I was me trying to do it while the sword was pointing straight, left or right. So by initiating the sword in the center at a downward or upward starting point it made verticle strikes very reliable. Let me tell you though I had a blast fighting the stalfos, he would guard and I would have to upercut him from a lower 45 degree angel and trust me it just feels good!
Link would do a spin slash sometimes and I still don't know how it happened. I need to read some hands on impressions.
Flying felt just like Resort which was fine. Saw many people having trouble with it. Just don't turn too hard or over turn and it is very easy. Kind of like when as kids we first played racing games and tried straighten out of a turn with another turn causing you to just go back and forth like crazy. Flying does feel great and there are allot of tiny little islands(WW sized I bet) I was told we could access in the final game. I just hope one day we can take the bird to the ground and fly over hyrul after a certain point.
That new bad guy replacing Ganon did some interesting things, but I felt his boss battle wasn't nearly as fun as the stalfos. But one thing I noticed I thought was great, he could yank the sword out of Links hand and throw it to the ground! I don't know about some of you, but WWs ability to pick up enemy weapons were great and things of the sort were lost in TP. Though this isn't that at all, it gives me hope that more elements like that will be appearing in the game. Also I whipped out a bomb and a moblin got afraid then ran for it! Hopefully those little enemy personalities from WW will be back in full force.
Edit: Last thing!
I did my best to rush through the temple as fast as possible before the 10 min time limit. Tried several times but only made it as far as the swinging vines. I noticed someone using the beetle to explore and noticed they were flying that thing all over the place. I'm so used to rushing through Zelda puzzles that I completely forgot how much potential the new item had. I saw this guy fly to near the top of the super high ceiling and saw little rooms that link could get up to. For the first time Since MM, I looked at a physical obstacle and could not even imagine how I was supposed to get there in the long run. Man it was exciting!
Edit again: Last thing for real this time.
Oh and you can walk while using items in first person this time around. For some reason I did not check to see if I could swing the sword while running around in first person.
During my multiple hands on moments with the game, for my own personal reasons I tried to keep Ian's point of view in mind.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on July 26, 2011, 06:27:26 PM
Excellent impressions. I can't wait to try it out myself. I always figured you had to start wide in order for a stroke to register. So if you were to slice from left to right, you had to start over next to your left arm then swing across your body. If that's what it is (and that seems to be what you're describing), I'm all for it. More physicality needed, the better.
I love how you felt dumbfounded when reminded of MM. I love that feeling in a game. It instantly broadens the scope of the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on July 27, 2011, 12:15:08 AM
Should we go back to Wii Sports Resort fencing mode to practice for SS, or is the fencing in SS so different that I shouldn't even bother with loading up WSR?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on July 27, 2011, 12:48:29 AM
Don't bother.
I mean don't bother, it's being moved to Wii U anyway.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 27, 2011, 12:52:18 AM
Not a chance, the reports are that the game is done (whereas Twilight Princess wasn't when it got moved to Wii).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on July 27, 2011, 01:07:20 AM
10 minute demo at E3 and comic con?
[marquee]2012[/marquee]
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on July 27, 2011, 01:44:10 AM
I mean don't bother, it's being moved to Wii U anyway.
That's sad to assume, but probably true. I'm not waiting another year to play a LoZ home console game though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on July 27, 2011, 02:25:32 AM
You could always go back and play something like Wind Waker in the meantime. Or one of the good ones, like Twilight Princess.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 27, 2011, 04:02:48 AM
You should try and pull an Andy Goergen and try to beat all of them in order leading up to the Skyward Sword release and quit halfway through.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: alegoicoe on July 27, 2011, 12:37:35 PM
I am glad that Ganon is not in the game, look at Majoras Mask, he was not in the game and it turn out really well, its fresh and does not tire out the old nemesis.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 27, 2011, 12:40:19 PM
How does the Shield work? Can you still lock on?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on July 27, 2011, 01:41:15 PM
For the shield you have to jerk the nunchuck. You could pop it out at anytime but of course it is always easier to lock on with the Z(?) button first. If I remember correctly link held it out for a moment then put it away automatically. But you don't just sit and block like the old days, you have to time the shield with an opponents strike to throw them off balance. It feels just fine but there is no button assigned to it. It reminded me of something within Metroid Prime 3, the feeling of it anyway. I do recall though that if I didn't time the shield right, enemies would hit through Links defense. It wasn't a constant barrier even though it was up. But instead of just tanking hits it felt much better to throw an enemies balance off.
I know some people expressed negativity about real time health item usage but I thought it felt really cool and somewhat realistic to drink my potions and try to dodge attacks at the same time. Wasn't difficult at all and even if you don't like that a fairy will still release itself from a bottle if you die.
One other thing I forgot to mention about using the sword. Once again I realize pointing the remote is key. I saw several people having actual trouble with the 3 eyes watching Link, you know that puzzle where you swing the sword in a circle to confuse the eyes? It is not so much about lifting the wiimote(though can) but you have to point the remote in the appropriate direction so in can register. I did it over and over again 100% without fail because it is ALL in the WRIST. Keep it in mind when we all get the game and wonder why our stupid swords are not moving like we want them to.
I have not played Wii Sports Resort in a long time and don't have it with me at the moment so I can't compare right now. I will say the controlls were very good, but because of the nature of it sometimes movements will happen when you don't intend them to. I also had to recalibrate the controller a few times because it got really messed up from someone else playing. I would say it is 90% there as far as great motion control goes, there is still room for advancement in technology. Still though I know how much some of you are dreading the motion plus, but it just makes combat feel so much better.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 27, 2011, 06:50:19 PM
So basically the shield can throw an enemies attack off like a Guard Impact from Soul Calibur 2 and you have the oppertunity to attack more then you would normally? Except it is with Motion instead of a button combonation.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on July 28, 2011, 01:20:30 AM
So basically the shield can throw an enemies attack off like a Guard Impact from Soul Calibur 2 and you have the oppertunity to attack more then you would normally? Except it is with Motion instead of a button combonation.
That is exactly right! Thats how I should have put it!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 28, 2011, 01:41:50 AM
Alright that has me more interested in it. I like that type of fighting style for sword combat.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on July 28, 2011, 01:52:37 AM
Info we may or may not know:
http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=157631&sid=75a99952626681d857de5b5af2009f65 - Majora's Mask was done in Japan before localization in the states started - Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess both used simultaneous localization - there were some finer details in the story that were changed in these projects - Skyward Sword ties into Ocarina of Time - Nintendo fears that if they put out an official timeline, they'll be limited with future Zelda ideas - There is a a master document for the Zelda timeline, but it's kept under wraps - it contains overall plans for the series - Skyward Sword will be 'tremendously expansive' - Nintendo says there's nothing else like it as far as motion control goes - Looking at holiday release this year - More details on Golden Wiimomte and other info later on - More events and activities surrounding Zelda to come - Skyward Sword blends overworld and dungeon elements - more puzzle and exploration than before - Bill Trinen hasn't finished the game yet, but he believes it to be one of his favorite Zelda games ever - the Wii U tech demo doesn't necessarily show where Nintendo will go with Zelda on Wii U - Skyward Sword starts off in Skyloft - The game kicks off with a series of events that sets Link on an adventure below the clouds to save Zelda - the game involves lots of mystery elements, including why you can't quite catch up to Zelda when trying to rescue her - Link's female companion isn't the sword exactly, but a spirit in the sword - she guides Link on his adventure - Ghirahim is following Link at one point, but Link isn't aware of it - The E3 battle with Ghirahim is the first time Link comes in contact with him - You don't know why he is going after Zelda - there are a lot of new character races in Skyward Sword, more than what we've seen at E3 - you will visit familiar places in Skyward Sword, but they may or may not be part of Hyrule
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 28, 2011, 01:56:30 AM
Okay Ghirahim has me interested in his role in the game. Wonder why he is after Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 28, 2011, 02:49:55 AM
I saw those 3 videos on GameTrailers earlier, they were nice. I don't think any new info was in them though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2011, 10:16:25 AM
Hahaha I would love if this game came down to booty.
Most of the Mario Games do ;)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Gameboy Freak on August 09, 2011, 08:53:57 AM
Amazon just sent me a message about my pre-order of Skyward Sword. They said the release date is now September 6th. I hope this is the actual release date and not an estimate! ;D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on August 09, 2011, 11:16:47 AM
On a Tuesday? Nintendo releases their games on Sunday, and for this case it would have to come out on the 4th of September.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 09, 2011, 02:14:09 PM
And I can't see Nintendo announcing the release date of their biggest game of the year less than a month away. I think it's Amazon making an error.
As Caliban said, it would also be unusual for Nintendo in that they almost always release their games on Sundays (one of the few exceptions is Star Fox 64 3D when they realized how dumb it would be to release that game on 9/11).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: stevey on August 09, 2011, 02:38:03 PM
Quote
I can't see Nintendo announcing the release date of their biggest game of the year less than a month away.
It's Zelda, it sells itself. They could be going for a September release so gamers will have more time to beat the game before SM3DL and MK7 come out in Nov/Dec to avoid hurting their (and the 3DS's) sales.
But as much as I would love it, Nintendo said they are going for a worldwide release and there's no way they're finished with translations yet and I don't see them abandoning it....
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on August 09, 2011, 02:42:56 PM
Well there's always GamesCom (August 17 to 21) where they can announce the release date 3 weeks prior to that release date, but who knows what's on Nintendo's mind.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on August 09, 2011, 03:15:55 PM
... But as much as I would love it, Nintendo said they are going for a worldwide release and there's no way they're finished with translations yet and I don't see them abandoning it....
The game has been coming soon for almost the whole life of the Wii... Surely they're done with the translation...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on August 10, 2011, 08:43:42 PM
It's Zelda. What's there to translate?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shaymin on August 10, 2011, 10:17:43 PM
Do you understand?
>No >Yes
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on August 10, 2011, 10:21:39 PM
We know http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=35369.0 NWR reported it yesterday
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Tansunn on August 29, 2011, 07:18:12 PM
I feel like I may be the only one... but after getting my hands on the demo at PAX, I am no longer excited for the game. Maybe it's because I don't have a Motion Plus so I don't "get it," but so much stuff just felt wrong.
I tried using the bow holding the remote like it would be pointer-based, and ended up pointing in some completely different direction. I was able to adjust, but by the time I got Link aiming at the spider by the ceiling, I was holding the remote like I was aiming at the floor below the TV to the right of mine.
Flying the beetle felt weird, too. I think the biggest issue I had with it was that it has limits - you can only tilt up to a certain angle before you can't angle any higher, but there isn't really any tactile feedback to indicate that.
The sword was the most confusing. There was a stalfos miniboss that held two swords in different defensive postures, so you had to swing to hit where it wasn't blocking. I thought I was swinging as indicated, but the only time I seemed to consistently hit him was when he was blocking attacks from the top and left. I have no idea if the remote was uncalibrated, or if I was accidentally hitting one of his swords as I tried moving the sword into position to attack, or if I simply wasn't doing something right.
Now it's possible that the remote became uncalibrated during play, but I recalibrated twice - once right before playing, and again right before trying the beetle. If it's that easy for the Motion Plus to get uncalibrated, then I really don't have much faith in the thing.
Maybe I just had a bad setup, or my lack of Motion Plus experience might have something to do with it, but at this point I really wish I could play it with a controller instead.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on August 29, 2011, 07:22:35 PM
I tried using the bow holding the remote like it would be pointer-based, and ended up pointing in some completely different direction. I was able to adjust, but by the time I got Link aiming at the spider by the ceiling, I was holding the remote like I was aiming at the floor below the TV to the right of mine.
I suspect your lack of Motion+ experience explains this part: am I correct in assuming you haven't played Resort? From what I understand, you don't use the pointer to aim the bow: you hold it like it is a bow, i.e. perpendicular to the TV, with the nunchuk acting as your "arrow." This is why it stabilized when you aimed the pointer at the floor.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Tansunn on August 29, 2011, 08:27:16 PM
You're right on all points. However, it seems weird that since the Motion Plus is supposedly 1:1 accurate that it wouldn't have me aiming at the floor when I pulled the bow out, since that's how it was oriented in my hand.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on August 30, 2011, 03:02:09 AM
The nunchuck isn't one to one though. So you aiming would still be off.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on August 30, 2011, 06:40:23 AM
Looks like I'll be spending $70 on this game. It's just a gold version of something I already have 2 of and yet here I am. So this is why my parents are disappointed in me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on August 30, 2011, 01:15:23 PM
You're right on all points. However, it seems weird that since the Motion Plus is supposedly 1:1 accurate that it wouldn't have me aiming at the floor when I pulled the bow out, since that's how it was oriented in my hand.
Good point. In Resort you tell the bow when to orient, but Zelda would be different in that regard, huh? I assume they programmed the game to either give you a window in which to adjust the controller, or to ignore the first smooth movement it detects, but I haven't played the demo, so I'm not sure.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 30, 2011, 02:39:35 PM
Since I don't have the Motion + attachment yet, the $70 bundle is a great deal. I'm basically getting a golden Wiimote with Motion + support for only $20.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on August 31, 2011, 05:25:51 AM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on August 31, 2011, 12:44:13 PM
That's much more colorful than most Zelda boxarts. Is it the PAL version only, or is NA getting the same?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 31, 2011, 12:49:33 PM
The second image (the collectors box) is the boxart for the North American version. I think it feels more epic, though the PAL one is nice too.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on August 31, 2011, 12:55:59 PM
Got my Bundle Pre-ordered on Amazon after checking the last few days but, I'm to stingy to pay for better shipping...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on August 31, 2011, 12:56:54 PM
Thank you! That's more in keeping with what I expected. Although I agree that they're both nice on the eyes.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on August 31, 2011, 05:08:10 PM
Neither beats TP's boxart...but really, how could they?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 31, 2011, 06:09:02 PM
I like the flying box art better, personally. It communicates a lot more of what's different in this Zelda game. Plus I'm pretty sure I have a thing for giant bird riding and floating cities in general.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on August 31, 2011, 09:43:57 PM
I like the flying one better too. It focuses much more on the painted style that I like.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 01, 2011, 10:15:23 AM
I like the Bundle Box more. It feels more like Zelda and holds the style of the Painted Bird.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on September 01, 2011, 12:12:34 PM
Both boxes look nice except for all the branding crap that every box has these days-- age rating, Wii logo, Nintendo logo-- sports games are generally the worst since they have so many liscenses that they (must?) show off.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 01, 2011, 04:09:54 PM
Both boxes look nice except for all the branding crap that every box has these days-- age rating, Wii logo, Nintendo logo-- sports games are generally the worst since they have so many liscenses that they (must?) show off.
So, you have a problem with how video game boxart has existed for the lat 20+ years? EVERY game has those things on them: rating, system logo, publisher logo (sometimes developer logo) and been like this since the ESRB started (and even before then boxes would have the same stuff on). Not sure why you act like this is anything new. It's no different than a game released in 1995.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 07, 2011, 06:59:23 PM
So it looks like the next issue of Game Informer will have some new Skyward Sword info.
They say this issue comes out on September 13, which is the same day as Nintendo's event in Japan next week, and since Nintendo's event in Japan will happen first, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo shows off a new trailer for Skyward Sword at that event as well.
Either way, looks like Nintendo is finally going to start getting the hype train for this game starting next week. For anyone looking to avoid spoilers, better be careful. For the rest of us, all aboard, CHOO CHOO!!!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 13, 2011, 11:55:48 AM
Awesome new video showing the upgrade system! So glad something like this exists now and/or again!
Lots of things to collect that mean something and insects are back as well.
Music is bright and cheery just the way I like it. The 2 main tracks we can hear in this video are 10 times better than almost everything in TP as far as i'm concerned.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 13, 2011, 01:29:04 PM
That's coolish.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on September 13, 2011, 01:47:16 PM
What's cool is how Link uses a sailcloth to slow down his dive descent to a stop... sailcloth? That might mean we will sail on a boat at one point or another.
From that video we know how Link goes up between realms, and from Game Informer's exclusive video we know now how Link goes down between realms. Skydiving is awesome.
Title: Zelda Interview! Good stuff!
Post by: Caterkiller on September 13, 2011, 03:03:46 PM
One thing I liked about TP is that during the cut scenes it's clear motion capture was used for some of them, giving that nice smooth realistic flow to the characters. That isn't shown when he gets blown into the sky, it looks so primitive, but oh well.
On the other hand, the trees sway very nicely which is a nice plus! If you look closely you can see the shadows on the ground moving with the trees as well.
Eiji Aonuma has been speaking to Game Informer about Skyward Sword and the unique set of difficulties posed by making a Zelda game. "The problem is that when you do something once in a game like Ocarina of Time, when you make the next game it becomes expected that all of that is there. You end up spending a lot of time creating all these elements of the game just to meet expectations."
Aonuma said his aim for Skyward Sword is to "take the franchise into new places."
And it seems that one of the ways to innovate has been to employ a young, exciting development team. "A number of people working on Zelda now are people that grew up playing Zelda. From their perspective, they're looking at it as, 'What are some of the things that failed to be helpful in getting through the game?' They're stripping that out and streamlining.'"
But as with any Zelda title, heated debates will rage about its position within the overarching, and somewhat hazy, continuity. Speaking of the increasingly-elaborate Zelda mythos, Aonuma admitted, "We've made so many games now that we can't help but think about how those games connect to one another. However, that consideration comes late in the development process. When we create a new game, we don't start with a preset notion of what the story is going to be or how it's going to flow. We start by focusing in on what the core gameplay element is going to be and then develop from that."
And for the detractors, who believe there's no definitive timeline, well Aonuma said, "There is a document on my computer that has a stamp on it that says 'Top Secret'. I actually haven't even shown it to many of the staff members. One of the special privileges of being the producer of the series is that I have the right as we're finalizing the game's story to then decide what fits in.
"We've been talking a lot about how we're trying to make this Zelda game feel new and different, but there will come a point in the game where you'll still get that final feeling that this is still a Zelda game."
The structure seems familiar in part, with the forest temple and fire temple once again being the first two dungeons you'll enter. But one of the big changes is the inclusion of something called The Silent Realm. When Link places the Skyward Sword into the ground, he accesses this alternate world, where he must face a series of spiritual tests amidst nightmarish versions of previous areas. But upon entering The Silent Realm, Link is stripped of his weapons and must survive using a mixture of guile and stealth. Collossus-sized creatures called The Guardians defend this realm, and can kill you with a single hit. To defeat them, you must collect tears.
Perhaps symptomatic of Aonuma's approach to Skyward Sword is the main musical theme for Skyward Sword. It's Zelda's Lyllaby reversed. Similarly, Skyward Sword promises to be the Zelda series we all love, but maybe not quite as we know it.
I'm excited. Edit I just saw that video that Miyamoto runs us through, how is no one talking about it!? It looks fantastic! It was almost too much info for me! I don't want to see anything until I get the game! http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/09/12/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-swords-gorgeous-new-worlds?objectid=872155 (http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/09/12/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-swords-gorgeous-new-worlds?objectid=872155)
Edit again.
Seriously either there is another thread where people are discussing this or everyone has just lost all hope in this game. Let's talk about it!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on September 14, 2011, 03:16:41 PM
I spoiled the **** out of myself watching that Miyamoto clip. I don't want to hear or see anything other than impressions and game reviews.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on September 14, 2011, 03:22:40 PM
Awesome, I love collecting crap and didn't get enough of it in Rare's N64 games.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 14, 2011, 03:28:47 PM
Seriously either there is another thread where people are discussing this or everyone has just lost all hope in this game. Let's talk about it!
No, I refuse to talk about LoZ:SS Forever until its in my my Wii and has save data and activity on my memory.
Aw, who am I kidding.
I think the graphics looked excellent with the style. To think the 3DS can do this :P: I like how he climbed over the shield and the upgrade system may be interesting. Looking at it though. All the mushrooms sort of make me feel like I'm seeing Link visiting a different game heroe's world.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 14, 2011, 04:35:45 PM
I spoiled the **** out of myself watching that Miyamoto clip. I don't want to hear or see anything other than impressions and game reviews.
Finally some discussion! I'm with you about not hearing or seeing any more of Zelda before it comes out.
Zap at least these collectibles can actually mean something tangible to use in the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 14, 2011, 04:38:11 PM
I've been avoiding all the Skyward Sword videos since E3. I remember overdosing on the Twilight Princess ones and it didn't end well when I actually played the game. Besides, I know I'll end up watching probably every video review this game gets when it actually comes out.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on September 14, 2011, 05:10:38 PM
The tear collecting is crap but the upgrades sound cool. Ironically he says:
"The problem is that when you do something once in a game like Ocarina of Time, when you make the next game it becomes expected that all of that is there. You end up spending a lot of time creating all these elements of the game just to meet expectations."
but nobody thinks back to Ocarina and says, I hope there's stealth in the next Zelda. Yet here we are. Collect-a-thon-y, timed, stealth segments. The worst of all worlds.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 14, 2011, 05:53:23 PM
I remember people wanting some kind of stealth before WW was revealed, here in these very boards even. People don't know what they want.
All I know is the worlds are bright and cheery and the music fits it, that is half of my complaining right there. Was there anyone else that just did not like the majority of TP's music? It was to dreary and they looped too quickly, they never get a chance to take off!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on September 14, 2011, 06:00:34 PM
Why does Nintendo have such a hard-on for stealth? They shove it in Zelda. They shoved it into Metroid: Zero Mission. Of course does Nintendo ever make a full-on stealth games like Metal Gear Solid or Splinter Cell? Nope, they just shoehorn it into their existing franchises. Wind Waker takes for-fucking-ever to get going because of the stupid stealth at the beginning and yet Nintendo keeps shoving that **** in our Zelda games. WHO THE **** LIKES IT? The whole thing sounds a lot like the annoying bullshit we all hated in Phantom Hourglass. Why would Nintendo want to continue in that direction?
The more I find out about Skyward Sword the LESS interested I become. Do you what the last game to do that for me was? OTHER M!
I don't think people really want all the elements for the Ocarina of Time to be in every game since then. Does it ever cross Nintendo's minds that there might be things people DON'T like about OoT but the game was otherwise so strong the flaws didn't hurt sales? What a great game designer has to do is figure out what elements to keep and what not. It also involves making a good guess at what fans really want. Dumb fans who don't know how to properly express themselves will just give you a laundry list of everything they liked and ask for the exact same thing to appear again. Those people are idiots. Ignore them. You have to sort through that list and think about what they REALLY want and why they're asking for it. If you do exactly what they want you'll just get cookie-cutter sequels... which they'll bitch about.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on September 14, 2011, 06:36:33 PM
I think all Nintendo is trying to do is change the pace of the game.
Just like in FPS's, you aren't running around shooting everything in site all the time, Nintendo wants Link to take a break from time to time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on September 15, 2011, 10:05:37 PM
Nintendo shouldn't be listening to fans and that's sounds counterproductive, but they didn't make their hits by listening to other people. They made those games by thinking about how to make games fun. No one knew what a side-scroller was until Nintendo made Super Mario Bros.
I actually like the stealth segments because it breaks up the game. However, I wish there were consequences for failing. In Ocarina of Time, you're sneaking into the Gerudo Fortress and when caught, Link, Hero of Fucking Time, just puts his hands up and gives up. Fortunately, they just throw you in a cell with ALL OF YOUR ****. Even if you ignore that from a plot perspective, how does that logically make sense? I'm not saying they strip you of your things and you have to get all 91 of them back, but fighting a special enemy or you have to fight your way out would make those segments more interesting.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 16, 2011, 12:52:52 AM
Ian did you hate sneaking around Gerudo Fortress? I always thought that was a great part of the OoT. Wasn't there something similar in MM only on a ship?
I remember when WW was in development Splinter Cell was all the rage. That's when I remember Miyamoto bringing up stealth directly in interviews. I do feel like it was more a knee jerk reaction than an actual good idea for the game. I did enjoy sneaking around inside the barrel during the beginning of WW but I do see it could have been better implemented.
This game does seem to have that crappy Spirit Tracks level of stealth but only this time in much wider areas, so at least it doesn't appear to be totally confined to little corridors. Just run away and grab the tears.
Finally the one thing I asked for since like LA! Zelda is now complete with big dingily jiggly nipple rings!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 16, 2011, 01:57:20 AM
The problem with invoking the Gerudo fortress section from Ocarina is that you were armed in that "stealth" section. In fact, a major part of the gameplay in that section was using your bow to knock out the guards by shooting them with your bow, as well as duel specific guards with your sword. The momentum of the game keeps moving.
Contrast that with the utter stupidity of the Wind Waker stealth section in the Forsaken Fortress. You have no weapons, and you have to crawl around this relatively massive (for that point in the game) dungeon avoiding searchlights and sneaking around in barrels. It's slow, it's tedious, it's pointless, and when you fail it it's back to the beginning for you. That whole section just drags an already-dragging portion of the game down to an unbearable crawl of trial & error repetition. Then Nintendo went and did that B.S. again in the Temple of the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass, which they are seemingly replicating for Skyward Sword.
I hate this style of stealth in my games. If you have to have stealth, why not follow the Arkham Asylum model? In that game, you are a lethal shadow who preys on the fear of your targets. You want your work to be discovered because it just makes it even more fun to mess with your prey as you close in for the kill. But this? Running around trying to avoid one-hit-kill monsters collecting tears just combines the tedium of the Twilight Realm sections from Twilight Princess with the hideous stealth sections of Phantom Hourglass/Wind Waker. Based on the information we have, I don't see how anyone could find these sections fun, especially as you keep having to do them over the course of a fairly long game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on September 16, 2011, 11:04:45 AM
Nintendo shouldn't be listening to fans and that's sounds counterproductive, but they didn't make their hits by listening to other people. They made those games by thinking about how to make games fun. No one knew what a side-scroller was until Nintendo made Super Mario Bros.
Plenty of people knew what a side-scroller was before Super Mario Bros. They were quite popular in arcades years before the NES was created. Moreover, the genre is really only a logical technical progression from the already-booming flip-scroller.
On a broader scale, I completely disagree with your thesis. There isn't a single company around that's successful by not listening to the customer base. You may argue, correctly, that they should ignore what's said by some of the more vocal-and-consistently-wrong segments of the market, but if you really think that Nintendo's hits sprung full-form from the mind of Miyamoto et al. well, I'm not sure how to respond.
On a more narrow scale, I also hate the stealth segments in Zelda games. They've all felt out of place, and I'd get rid of them entirely. Link's supposed to be the avatar of Courage, skilled in arms and undaunted by the odds. So why the heck does he just put up his hands and surrender to foes that I've beaten several times over by now?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on September 16, 2011, 11:33:17 AM
Jesus Christ, really? Yes, I literally meant no one in the entire universe knew what a side-scroller was before Super Mario Bros. Nintendo revolutionized entire genres by focusing on why people even play games: because people want to have fun. There were no Mario fans before Mario existed. There were no Zelda fans before Zelda existed. Nintendo didn't have fans to listen to because they weren't there.
I don't think Nintendo should listen to fans because they'll hear millions of different voices and they simply can't please everyone. Some things in previous games work, some do not. You and Ian don't like stealth in Zelda games while I and others do. Who should Nintendo listen to? I don't think there's a way to make that call. Nintendo shouldn't make games based on a million different standards. Someone is bound to feel disappointed. If Nintendo adhered to fans, we wouldn't have some of the best games they've made. For example, Metroid Prime. Most people hated the move to 1st person when it was announced yet it worked beautifully. I can't imagine the game any other way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on September 16, 2011, 12:23:02 PM
Ian did you hate sneaking around Gerudo Fortress? I always thought that was a great part of the OoT. Wasn't there something similar in MM only on a ship?
I enjoyed it in OoT and thought it was a little less interesting to do that again in MM and was outright sick of it by WW. In OoT it was this cool section they put in the game and I liked it as such. But I didn't want it to become a Zelda staple. I thought turning into different races in MM with the masks was cool as well but it isn't like Nintendo then put that into every Zelda game since then, which is a good thing.
Though as broodwars points out the Gerudo fortress lets you use your weapons. I find I like having stealth as an option. Even before it became a common element in games, if I could sneak up on enemies in a game, I often did as a strategy. It's good game design to allow multiple ways to tackle a scenario. Do I sneak up on the enemies or lure them one at a time or go in guns blazing? Goldeneye let you do this for example and it was awesome. Metal Gear usually lets you fight it out, though you'll often get your ass kicked. Splinter Cell however pulls the plug constantly if you're spotted. That's lame and frustrating. Why can't I try to shoot my way out if I choose to?
That is not so bad in Zelda. If stealth is an optional strategy at a point, that's cool. I can sneak around OR go in and kick ass if I choose. It's the "suddenly I'm playing Splinter Cell" bits that are annoying.
In regards to NEVER listening to fans, that's just stupid. What if you introduce some element that everyone can't stand? You keep that in every game afterwards and you risk turning your audience away. You need to listen to some feedback. You know what series ignored what everyone complained about and just kept going head on in the unpopular direction the developers wanted and has became a complete joke? Sonic the Hedgehog. Fuckin' Metroid will turn out the same way if Nintendo doens't listen to fan feedback about Other M.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on September 16, 2011, 12:37:37 PM
Jesus Christ, really? Yes, I literally meant no one in the entire universe knew what a side-scroller was before Super Mario Bros. Nintendo revolutionized entire genres by focusing on why people even play games: because people want to have fun. There were no Mario fans before Mario existed. There were no Zelda fans before Zelda existed. Nintendo didn't have fans to listen to because they weren't there.
I don't think Nintendo should listen to fans because they'll hear millions of different voices and they simply can't please everyone. Some things in previous games work, some do not. You and Ian don't like stealth in Zelda games while I and others do. Who should Nintendo listen to? I don't think there's a way to make that call. Nintendo shouldn't make games based on a million different standards. Someone is bound to feel disappointed. If Nintendo adhered to fans, we wouldn't have some of the best games they've made. For example, Metroid Prime. Most people hated the move to 1st person when it was announced yet it worked beautifully. I can't imagine the game any other way.
I interpreted your example of SMB to mean that "Nintendo shouldn't listen to fans because fans don't know how they can have fun, while Nintendo does. Look at SMB: they made the side-scroller fun because they didn't listen to people!"
My response was simply pointing out a historical reality: the side-scroller genre created SMB, not the other way around like you are asserting. Side scrollers were already popular in gaming circles, and their predecessor, the flash scroller, was immensely popular before that. It is no accident that Nintendo chose to take what had become their most popular character (Mario, from the smash-hit Donkey Kong arcade game, which was itself leveraged on previous titles and IPs...) and stick him in what was already a popular genre.
In other words, they listened to the fans.
The mistake here is in believing that "listening to the fans" only means "listening to what fans tell the company orally/ in writing." I believe your examples of how there were "no Mario fans before Mario existed" etc. support this idea. Instead, "listening to the fans" can and has also meant observing how fans react to things: is X idea popular? Do people generally seem to hate Y? Are people spending time and money on Z?
Few, if any, people directly asked Nintendo to create Nintendogs. Tens of millions of people told Nintendo that Nintendo should make Nintendogs when they rushed out and spent hordes of cash on Tomagatchis (sic) and other virtual pets. The same is true for Brain Age. And Wii Sports. And the original Zelda. And Mario. And Donkey Kong. I can't think of any big IP Nintendo has created that wasn't leveraged on something that was already popular elsewhere. They may refine it better, but they first have to listen and learn what is worth refining. That is what I meant to express.
As for how that relates to Zelda (i.e. the topic at hand, which I admit I somewhat strayed from!). You are correct in that Nintendo asking fans directly is not a wise idea, and for the very reason you mentioned. That's exactly what I meant when I said " that (Nintendo) should ignore what's said by some of the more vocal-and-consistently-wrong segments of the market." And yes, I admit that would include my internet posts.
What I am instead proposing is that Nintendo should stop and examine what it is that people play Zelda games for in the first place. I have a hard time believing that "stealth" has ever been one of them. At best, that segment seems to be superfluous filler: do you or anyone you know play Zelda for the stealth segments? Can you argue truthfully that those segments "fit" in with the rest of the game? Or do they represent a temporary and unnecessary sea change in the mechanics?
I argue that the stealth elements can be removed without decreasing most people's enjoyment of the game, while simultaneously increasing the enjoyment of others. In other words, few people will think it's a worse game without the stealth (and in fact they wouldn't even have noticed its absence), but many people will think it's a better game without it.
Let me head off the next post by admitting that I do not have any hard data to support this, and that I could be wrong. But I ask that you admit the same, or at least submit hard evidence that shows that I'm wrong (in which case I am willing to re-examine, and possibly concede, my position).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 16, 2011, 12:57:38 PM
On the whole stealth side of things as long as its optionalish then I'm fine with it. What I hate is stealth you can't recover from when you slip up. That is what really gets me. Granted that it should be really intense to recover but if your skilled enough fully doable.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on September 16, 2011, 01:02:51 PM
Edit: this was a response to Ian's post. I'll have to respond to the others later
Sigh
As previously stated, some things work, some do not. The development team is most likely aware of or can identify many of these things without fan feedback. Sakamoto's team begged him to use the nunchuck and he refused. Other M suffered for it.
I don't think any development team shreds all feedback from fans but feedback that is positive or negative mostly reaffirms what they already know. The point about not listening to fans is because if you ask a million people what they did or did not like about a game, you get a million answers and there's no way to reconcile that. A developer's responsibility is to make a fun game. They make games for fans but they can't make every fan's game.
The problem with listening to fans is that most fans are not game developers and/or have no idea what they're talking about. A good idea on paper is not automatically a good idea in practice. Nintendo shouldn't ignore fans since they're paying the bills. Fan feedback is impossible to adhere to. Many attempts to placate fans result in a hodge podge of uninspired ideas. Twilight Princess isn't a bad game, but it's essentially Ocarina of Time 2. It lacks almost all of the charm and originality of the game it so desperately wants to be. Nintendo listened to fans so closely that they made a worse game. Not a bad game; just a worse one. Alternatively, Ocarina of Time isn't a classic because Nintendo listened to fans. It's a classic because they didn't and couldn't being that there was nothing to compare it too. Ocarina of Time isn't just Link to the Past 3D. Nintendo just made the best game they could make and delayed it until they felt they got it right and I'm glad they did because Ocarina of Time is fucking boss.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 16, 2011, 01:21:23 PM
I thought i'd try to play through TP again last night. Before I started I had the feeling of SS in my head even though I knew it wouldn't feel that way, but god it feels like such an aweful system that I never want to deal with again. Waggle at the time ok for me, I enjoyed it sometimes, but after playing SS link is super unresponsive and slow.
I realize how awesome the run button is now and now with Link able to run a few steps up walls and over enemies he just feels way more mobile. I just wish the animations were more fluid in zelda games. Mario does the zaniest things but the way he flips and moves around it looks so natural. Seems like anytime Link gets enveloped by a strong wind the way it carries him looks like crap. Enemies too, some look like they move as if they would in real life, then you have those black twilight things that are crawling on the ground but it looks like they're sliding all over the place.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on September 16, 2011, 04:31:36 PM
I just thought of something childish yet hilarious. Is it possible to make Link walk around with penis sword? And if so, how hilarious would it be if you thrust your hips to thrust the sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on September 16, 2011, 05:21:06 PM
I just thought of something childish yet hilarious. Is it possible to make Link walk around with penis sword? And if so, how hilarious would it be if you thrust your hips to thrust the sword.
Due to Nintendo's conservative nature they probably would not allow you to do that. But then again, due to their conservative nature they might not think of something crude like that in the first place and thus not take action to prevent it. :D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 17, 2011, 01:46:00 PM
Seriously either there is another thread where people are discussing this or everyone has just lost all hope in this game. Let's talk about it!
I'm already going to buy it so I'm not discussing it because I want to discover things as I play the game. Once it's released, I'll be back in here talking about what I find.
In fact, a major part of the gameplay in that section was using your bow to knock out the guards by shooting them with your bow
You monster! I always used the Hookshot since it seemed less painful...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 17, 2011, 11:30:44 PM
The latest issue of Game Informer features a very cool image of Skyward Sword. It shows Link, Zelda and Ghirahim on the cover and shows off the game's art stlye very well. This is perhaps my favorite Game Informer cover, and issue, ever, and, most of all, it is one of a few times where Game Informer actually features a Nnitendo centric title. I am going to link an image of the cover and this issue also has a very nice dexcription of each game in the series follwed by some nifty pictures of Skyward Sword and an interview with Aonuma himself. This is highly recommended: http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/images/dashboard.jpg (http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/images/dashboard.jpg)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Drizzt on September 18, 2011, 07:46:25 PM
I found a Skyward Sword easter egg in OOT 3D. In the Gerudo Valley roll into boxes that are against the wall in the room with the table with two pots on it and you'll find a Skyward Sword link poster.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 18, 2011, 08:44:17 PM
Awesome Drizzt, i'll be looking for it. I got that game day one and still havn't gone through the 2nd dungeon.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 24, 2011, 06:47:31 PM
2 new Zelda videos. It is actual gameplay but nothing we havnt seen before. Just the lava area with link walking on the ball. Also one attack from the fire boss.
Impressions, verbal! Sounds good! But lots of mini cool spoilers, not story wise. But I suggest stay away Mop it up and the like. No more for me after this!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on September 25, 2011, 03:29:22 AM
Indeed. With Nintendo games, it's not the story spoilers that I'm wary of, but rather the gameplay spoilers. Through osmosis, I learned of all the new power-ups in Mario Galaxy 2 before it was released, and while that didn't make them any less cool when I finally got to play the game, I didn't get those cool 'Surprise!' moments. I don't think the old saying 'ignorance is bliss' holds much merit, but at the same time, I would like to go into some games without knowing everything about it beforehand.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: cubist on September 25, 2011, 09:49:49 PM
Man, they should rename the thread to 'Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Anti-Hype.' Seriously, every Zelda title has been excellent since 'A Link to the Past'. Let's let Aonuma and his Zelda dev team surprise us. Every trailer just seems to get better for me and I'm hoping this game really makes us regret this thread.
Majora's Mask and Wind Waker were both excellent. Some of my friends in my offline gamer's circle think that Phantom Hourglass is the best one in recent years. I'm hoping for one that's on par with Twilight Princess, which I thought was still brilliant despite popular NWR Forum opinion.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 26, 2011, 05:46:28 PM
Indeed. With Nintendo games, it's not the story spoilers that I'm wary of, but rather the gameplay spoilers.
I'm the same way. Some of my best memories of Zelda involve things like receiving new items and figuring out the best way to use them, discovering little tricks on traveling and defeating enemies, and finding various secrets in the world. Zelda is best experienced without knowledge of what's ahead.
Of course, these days with the Internet and all, it's very difficult to go into a game without knowing anything about it. There are lots of things revealed before the game comes out, and once it's released, all of its secrets are posted on the Internet within days. I miss the days when I could go into a game with no knowledge whatsoever and be totally surprised by the events... but at the same time, without the vast information available on the Internet, it would be a lot harder to determine good from bad games. The Internet is a curse... and a blessing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 26, 2011, 10:26:32 PM
I am going to go out on a limb here and make a prediction that Skyward Sword will earn a perfect score from Famitsu.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 26, 2011, 10:33:15 PM
I am going to go out on a limb here and make a prediction that Skyward Sword will earn a perfect score from Famitsu.
Flip a coin. If it lands on a side, then a AAA Japanese game gets a high review score from Famitsu.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on September 26, 2011, 11:50:05 PM
Ocarina and Wind Waker have both gotten perfect scores from that magazine while all the other games in the series have come close to achieving it. It seems overdue and from the quality that I have seen so far Skyward Sword would most likely earn it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on September 27, 2011, 01:11:20 AM
I agree with wanting to be surprised. I was really surprised to find the top item in TP as well as the awesome ball n' chain.
Best surprise though? Snowboarding. I did not see that coming.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 27, 2011, 10:31:04 AM
I agree with wanting to be surprised. I was really surprised to find the top item in TP as well as the awesome Snowboarding.
Best surprise though? Ball n' Chain, I did not see that coming.
Post corrected.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 28, 2011, 04:45:44 AM
I've played the demo enough times to tell you this:
Cons: 1. The demo dungeon is terrible. It is slow, boring, and too hard. Should have done something linear instead. 2. The sword controls are not that great. At all. Don't get your hopes up. 3. Art style on demo boss, wtf. 4. Doesn't do too much different from TP D:
Pros: 1. Looks good. 2. New Zelda. 3. Interesting story that has a cool spot in the time line.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 28, 2011, 11:19:27 AM
I've played the demo enough times to tell you this:
Cons: 1. The demo dungeon is terrible. It is slow, boring, and too hard. Should have done something linear instead. 2. The sword controls are not that great. At all. Don't get your hopes up. 3. Art style on demo boss, wtf. 4. Doesn't do too much different from TP D:
Every single impression on the game has said the controls are great. You are the only person on the internet who says the controls aren't. So either you played with a broken controller, or are a troll who's just making sh!t up because you never played the damn game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 28, 2011, 12:04:39 PM
I've played the demo enough times to tell you this:
Cons: 1. The demo dungeon is terrible. It is slow, boring, and too hard. Should have done something linear instead. 2. The sword controls are not that great. At all. Don't get your hopes up. 3. Art style on demo boss, wtf. 4. Doesn't do too much different from TP D:
Pros: 1. Looks good. 2. New Zelda. 3. Interesting story that has a cool spot in the time line.
I played at E3 year before last and then again at this past Comicon. I must have sat in Nintendo's booth for about 5 hours total on 1 day and another 5 on the second day. I played so much Zelda and I really felt like I figured out the sword controls, only thing I really didn't like was stabbing. But I thought the controls worked great.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 28, 2011, 12:41:27 PM
I'm going towards the Sensor bar was stabbing. Nothing on any of the motion controls that go towards the screen really work that great.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 28, 2011, 01:40:21 PM
I've played the demo enough times to tell you this:
Cons: 1. The demo dungeon is terrible. It is slow, boring, and too hard. Should have done something linear instead. 2. The sword controls are not that great. At all. Don't get your hopes up. 3. Art style on demo boss, wtf. 4. Doesn't do too much different from TP D:
Every single impression on the game has said the controls are great. You are the only person on the internet who says the controls aren't. So either you played with a broken controller, or are a troll who's just making sh!t up because you never played the damn game.
I think I'd be the longest running troll on here besides maybe Rabicle and Pro then.
Let's go with this, the controls are NOT intuitive? The controls are definitely not GREAT. I watched countless persons try to play the game and fail/frustration trying complete the demo boss. Half the time they'd fall back on the Wii Sports style wrist flicks. That demo boss is terrible.
Troll my ass, GTFO, I've been here to long to be called that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 28, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
So the cycle continues.
I doubt any 1 to 1 is going to be that great. I did fencing for a bit and never got good. I'm not going to be instantly good in a game. Not going to happen.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: bustin98 on September 28, 2011, 02:52:25 PM
I read that the boss requires you to feign your attacks, if its the one you are referring to. Start to attack from the top, then switch to the side. And vice versa.
Title: New details/spoilers
Post by: Caterkiller on September 28, 2011, 06:27:13 PM
I only read a couple things, not really that interesting. Still avoid everything except for this if you don't like little tidbits, that means you Mop it Up. You can make the HUD almost perfectly clean!
- Ghirahim seeks to revive his master. - The headmaster of the Knight Academy Link goes to is named Gaepora. - Gaepora is Zelda's father. - Gaepora laugh like this "Hoo hoo hoo", which seems Owl like. - Zelda wakes up Link one morning to show him her dress for the Bird Riders ceremony. - Noticing how lazy Link is about his flying training, Zelda pushes him off the edge of Skyloft. - During the "date" after the competition, Zelda is trying to tell something to Link she's been meaning to tell him for a long time, but is interrupted by a tornado. - Link has nightmares of the black creature that shallows Zelda. - During the attack of said creature, Link is saved by his bird, which are called Loftwings. - Fi appears in Skyloft after the attack and Link chases her all around Skyloft to the Goddess Statue. - The Sheikhas Stones are back. - The Eldin Volcano's dungeon is NOT the Fire Temple, it's the EARTH Temple. - The bullies are named Groose, Cawlin and Stritch. Groose, the red-haired one, has a big crush on Zelda. - Other characters includes Pipit, a senior student and bird expert. And Fledge, a nice guy but kind of a wimp.
Gameplay details:
- Night/Day transition does not occur in real-time. Link must go to bed and choose to get up at night or at day. - Monster appear during the night. Cats become aggressive. - The HUD is customization. Standard, Light and Pro. Standard shows the full controller overlay and button functions, Light only the buttons and Pro is almost completely clean. - The only way to save your game is with the birds statues. They are pretty much everywhere, including mid-dungeon and right before boss rooms. - Skyward Sword's official name is the "Goddess Sword" - Link has multiple premonitions involving the strange pointy-toothed creature seen gobbling Zelda up in the original E3 2011 trailer - Skyloft has a full-blown residential quarter, a bazaar, the plaza, a bath house and more - knock background objects over - the treasure cubes we've seen in footage are called "Goddess Cubes" - the sword beam is referred to as the "Skyward Strike" - From the sky, you can return to any activated Save Statue on the surface. - Scaldera's official name is the "Pyroclastic Fiend Scaldera" - Link has to raid a Bokoblin camp to rid Eldin Volcano of their presence once he arrives there - earn the Digging Gloves and Bomb Bag from the Mogma as thanks for his help - the Sheikah-like character from the recent trailer is very "ninja-like"
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on September 28, 2011, 06:34:03 PM
I'm going towards the Sensor bar was stabbing. Nothing on any of the motion controls that go towards the screen really work that great.
The game doesn't even use the sensor bar... which is a problem.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 28, 2011, 07:07:59 PM
This game doesn't use the sensor bar whatsoever? That's a little strange, the pointing worked well for some items in Twilight Princess so I would have thought they would continue that in this game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on September 28, 2011, 07:15:56 PM
This game doesn't use the sensor bar whatsoever? That's a little strange, the pointing worked well for some items in Twilight Princess so I would have thought they would continue that in this game.
Indeed. I rather enjoyed using the pointer-based bow controls in Twilight Princess. Actually, that's just about the only aspect of the Wii Remote-related control I liked in the Wii version of TP.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on September 28, 2011, 07:23:48 PM
It tries to emulate pointing using Motion Plus, which it really isn't good enough for... in my experience, it went off calibration very easily, though it could have been a defective controller. In any case, it's dumb not to use all input information you have available.
Title: Opening is very strong!
Post by: Caterkiller on September 29, 2011, 12:22:18 PM
From IGN and super spoiler free! It's a way to get hyped without knowing anything! I encourage all to read it. Entire article here. I suggest not reading it. I didn't. http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1197148p1.html (http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1197148p1.html)
Quote
Twilight Princess isn't a bad game by any means, but its opening hours, which largely focus on acclimating players to Link's new adventure, force you into mindless tasks that ultimately have no application in the large adventure that follows. The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword doesn't suffer from that problem to nearly the same degree.
The game's designers seemed to focus on making sure the plot continuously moved, and avoided getting tied down in lengthy tasks that have little bearing on the story. Those interested in exploring the island of Skyloft could no doubt spend far more time checking out every corner of - BLANK - But that's the beauty of this game's design. It seems more aware that some players will know what they're doing, and seems interested in allowing players to play a bit more to their style rather than to the game's specific demands.
Very promising! I think Ian will be happy to read this.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on October 01, 2011, 06:27:17 PM
Best news I have heard about this game. Thanks for posting Caterkiller.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 01, 2011, 09:08:39 PM
Finally someone cares!
If this game is as good as Miyamoto makes it sound, does anyone think they would drop wiimote sword control in the future for the tablet?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on October 01, 2011, 09:16:20 PM
Only if they can come up with some good mechanics for the uPad.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 01, 2011, 10:13:42 PM
If this game is as good as Miyamoto makes it sound, does anyone think they would drop wiimote sword control in the future for the tablet?
Probably not considering it looks like Nintendo will still be using the Wiimote to play Wii U games. The E3 trailer makes it look like people will still have to use Wiimotes to play multiplayer games since they'll only be one tablet per console. Since Wiimotes will still be an important part of the Wii U, having the Wii U Zelda still played with Motion + is very possible.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on October 01, 2011, 11:16:18 PM
Considering Nintendo went out of their way to put a 6 inch screen on their new controller and advertised the hell out of being able to stream the entire game onto the controller, I can't imagine them ignoring the new controller. There's 3 possible control modes: Motion Plus, tablet controller as the screen, and a DS-like mode with the tablet controller as a second screen as in Ocarina of Time 3D.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sarail on October 01, 2011, 11:53:15 PM
I'd definitely prefer to play the next Zelda after Skyward Sword using the Wii U/Stream controller. Get back to basics, and put that blasted sword back in his left hand. :)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on October 02, 2011, 12:24:46 AM
Tingle Tuner 2.0
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 02, 2011, 01:30:48 AM
You know I was thinking about that! But just make it some sort of fairy character that can interact with the invironment on a bigger scale and actual fight without wasting money.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on October 02, 2011, 01:56:19 AM
blow into the tablet mic and hold it up like a bison horn. BRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNn
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on October 02, 2011, 08:43:12 PM
If this game is as good as Miyamoto makes it sound, does anyone think they would drop wiimote sword control in the future for the tablet?
I can only hope not, but at this point I have no idea. My problem with the Wii U is that it appears to drop everything the Wii had established in favour of DS-like features, eliminating the uniqueness of both their home and handheld system. Maybe that was their intention, I don't know. Fortunately, the Wii U will use Wii controllers, so hopefully they will be used for more than just multiplayer games.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on October 03, 2011, 07:53:56 PM
Nintendo again hears my cries: the owl, well...the owl's name plays a role in the story. Check NOA's twitter feed if you want to see the details, plus a pic. I'm warming up to it, slightly.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sundoulos on October 03, 2011, 10:54:53 PM
Nintendo again hears my cries: the owl, well...the owl's name plays a role in the story. Check NOA's twitter feed if you want to see the details, plus a pic. I'm warming up to it, slightly.
^^ I heard about that on one of IGN's recent podcasts. I thought the reference was very cool. :)
It took a while, but I am very excited for this game now. I love the style, and I can't wait to find out more about the story structure.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 06, 2011, 02:55:35 PM
To all those who act sinister on this subject, the game does ask you if you are left handed. Link can be what ever hand you want him to be.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 06, 2011, 03:44:21 PM
To all those who act sinister on this subject, the game does ask you if you are left handed. Link can be what ever hand you want him to be.
Can I tell it will be my left hand but use my right so Link will be left handed? Watching the Videos I feel odd with his hand going the other way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on October 06, 2011, 05:29:32 PM
I don't really care which hand Link uses, but I thought it was ridiculous that reversing TP made all the bad guys lefties instead. As long as that doesn't happen again, I'll be happy.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on October 06, 2011, 08:55:22 PM
To all those who act sinister on this subject, the game does ask you if you are left handed. Link can be what ever hand you want him to be.
That's the only other thing I wanted to hear, now I can wait in silence until the release.
My latest bits of news were all for you. Now that you are satisfied I will retire from all things SS until the games release. I'm being totally serious.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on October 06, 2011, 09:35:46 PM
Now that Caterkiller is gone, I'd like to share an embarrassing story he told me once.
Old information had already revealed that the current villain, Demon Lord Ghirahim, was trying to revive his master. The intro shows that there are 5 other Demon Lords as well as their master in the middle, which means the game has a total of 7 villains. All previous Zelda's have had somewhere between 2-3 villains per game so this should be interesting to see.
Plus from the sound of the storyline, it looks like the main villain is basically the Hyrule equivalent of the Devil. I mean, it says he came from deep within the ground with an army of demons and has 6 Demon Lords as his loyal followers and had to be defeated by the actual Goddess of Hyrule herself. Damn, this game really is looking to be the most epic Zelda of all time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on October 07, 2011, 11:54:55 PM
More great news from 1up http://www.1up.com/previews/overworld-dungeon-skyward-sword (http://www.1up.com/previews/overworld-dungeon-skyward-sword)
Quote
It takes longer to reach ---- than to clear the dungeon itself, and for the first time the path to a dungeon is obstructed by the intricacy of the landscape rather than sheer distance to be covered or arbitrary plot-key tasks gathered in a nearby town.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Dasmos on October 08, 2011, 12:47:47 AM
After playing Skyward Sword today, I'm going into hibernation mode concerning all info on this game. My main issue was going to be controls, but after 2 minutes I found it controlled perfectly and have no more issues that can't wait until it has been released and is in my hawt little hands.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 14, 2011, 03:12:59 AM
So yeah, for those who don't mind spoilers, Nintendo has released two new video's covering an area that hasn't been covered by any previews before.
Damn that dungeon looks amazing. Can't wait to see what area and dungeon they show next week.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 14, 2011, 01:39:45 PM
Why didn't he use fishing rod on the boss. It looked like the hook point for it earlier.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 14, 2011, 07:53:51 PM
I think that was the point of the video, Ceric.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on October 14, 2011, 08:19:33 PM
Haave any of you guys heard of the Gamestop conspiracy involving Skyward Sword? If not, it pertains to Gamestop not having a midnight launch for Skyward Sword despite it having many reseves. At the same time, other titles such as Arkham City are getting midnight releases despite having lower resrves than Skyward Sword. What gives?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on October 14, 2011, 09:35:13 PM
I pre-ordered on Amazon, so I really don't care. Also, who really needs a single player game at midnight anyway? Multi-player games at least give you the excuse of getting it with friends and making a night out of it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on October 14, 2011, 09:42:56 PM
I wouldn't mind getting Zelda at midnight.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on October 14, 2011, 09:59:23 PM
Haave any of you guys heard of the Gamestop conspiracy involving Skyward Sword? If not, it pertains to Gamestop not having a midnight launch for Skyward Sword despite it having many reseves. At the same time, other titles such as Arkham City are getting midnight releases despite having lower resrves than Skyward Sword. What gives?
Wow, you actually think they're going to fully stock the game? A store going to get 3 copies max and they're going to hope that this will force people to 1) wait till they can sell used copies at 50% profit margin and 2) buy some other games in the mean time...
I'm not joking, I remembered them doing the same **** with SSBB/SMG/MP3. I preordered from amazon to make sure I get it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on October 15, 2011, 12:14:51 AM
They did a midnight launch for brawl. I remember there being a bit of a line and everyone there being able to get a copy.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 15, 2011, 12:31:01 AM
I just go to the 24 hour Wal-Mart right next to were I live to get major releases at mid night. They always get a ton of copies and there's hardly anyone else there so its very easy to walk right in and get what you want.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on October 15, 2011, 08:19:15 AM
I just preordered the Motion Plus bundle at Best Buy. They're having a midnight launch but I work in the morning so F that noise. As long as I'm ensured the bundle, I'm fine. I'll avoid this topic until after work.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 18, 2011, 01:33:06 AM
I'm sorry I reported false news. There is NO left handed mode in this game for Link. IGN just confirmed that they made a mistake earlier.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 18, 2011, 02:57:04 PM
Here we go, the first part of the Iwata Ask interview for Skyward Sword is now up.
Like always, these things are filled with great information about how the game was developed, like how the flying beetle item was originally going to be a rocket fist. Of course that would have been pretty awesome as well.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Steel Diver on October 18, 2011, 03:40:07 PM
I really wish this game would come sooner. Also Nintendo needs to make a lot of copies since this is their big Wii game of this year.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 18, 2011, 03:41:34 PM
That was a great read. It's crazy how child like these professional designers are. They seem to truly love their jobs.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 18, 2011, 04:00:00 PM
Quote
Iwata: Wii MotionPlus is an incredibly sharp device, but a little distinctive. It's like an unruly horse. Aonuma: Yes, exactly. No matter what we did, we couldn't tame it.
That explains why we don't see many motion plus games if Nintendo is having a hard time with the tech.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 18, 2011, 04:45:44 PM
Iwata: Wii MotionPlus is an incredibly sharp device, but a little distinctive. It's like an unruly horse. Aonuma: Yes, exactly. No matter what we did, we couldn't tame it.
That explains why we don't see many motion plus games if Nintendo is having a hard time with the tech.
Even though this generation is all but up for Nintendo, hopefully SS will be a great template to follow on the Wii U, for developers who want to adopt this style.
My time with SS probably only added up to about 2-3 hours across 6 months, but I can attest to motion sword swinging just feeling better than button swinging.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on October 18, 2011, 09:24:02 PM
I'm sorry I reported false news. There is NO left handed mode in this game for Link. IGN just confirmed that they made a mistake earlier.
You're on my list now!
I come to this forum for only Mop it up! In hopes that one day she'd let me call her Mop it. Now my dreams are dashed and I shale never venture here again, or as long as I live.
...for 3 months.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 18, 2011, 10:39:48 PM
Call her Putipom (Pu-tee-pom) instead. I do.
Caterkiller, I know you've shared your impressions, but I'm interested in how you tackled the controls. If you are like me, I am going to act like I'm Link. I'm going to use a full swing to replicate my slashes and stabs. Does that work out well?
Also other than when I'm slashing, I am going to have my shield in front of me like a spartan or some ****. So when I do swing it falls to my side but immediately comes back to the front to protect myself. Does that work out well?
How about feigning an attack? Have you tried it? In the Iwata Asks they said that it was possible, which makes me extremely curious to how much work they put into the battle system. It seems like if the main boss (maybe) has you feign attacks, then there could be a couple more tricks hidden in LOZ's sleeve.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 19, 2011, 12:29:23 AM
I couldn't leave for 3 hours, oh well.
When I did play I played like I was Link as well. Since I enjoy swinging swords in real life, there was no way I was about to do tiny swipes to get Link moving. That is how I played Red Steel 2, but this has a feel to it that is 10 times more satisfying to me. I just couldn't get used to stabbing, hopefully when I have a few hours under my belt with my own copy it wont be an issue. So to answer your question it works out extremely well!!! Well so long as you follow through with the point of the wiimote.
As Maxi pointed out, using the shield feels like soul calibur's guard impact, bouncing away a foes strike instead of tanking every hit. Throwing an enemy off balance and then following up with a strike just feels sooo good! Only thing is Link doesn't constantly hold up his shield like the old days if I remember correctly. Flick your chuk to throw it out, he holds it for a moment then puts it back.
As for feigning, like a fake out, I didn't think about that until today actually. I wish I tried, but I honestly can't imagine how it would be done.
I figured if one day link could throw a horizontal swipe to the left, press a button have him fake it, spin to the right and strike from the opposite side would be a dream come true.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 19, 2011, 02:37:50 AM
I was afraid of Link only using his shield for Soul Calibur like deflections. I'm glad their is timing required though.
Still...they really need to make a Nunchuck+. I want to have to time my deflections as well as read which direction my enemies blows are coming from. This doesn't have to be a realistic sword fighting simulation by any means, but if the enemies can defend in directions then Link should have the same weakness/strength. So maybe in the next iteration, it will be about my timing and my ability to study my enemy. Seems only natural really.
As for feigning, I'm trying to think of a more natural way than holding a button and all I can think of is doing it yourself. Maybe if Nintendo adds a Kinect like camera, they can figure that out as well as the addition of kicks and throws.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 19, 2011, 12:57:08 PM
In the Iwata Ask they mention that one boss will just grab your sword attacks. My immediate answer: Why didn't you just bash him in the head with your shield then attack him with the sword. Its one thing to catch a sword that is cutting damage its another to catch a shield which is impact damage.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on October 20, 2011, 11:14:07 AM
Issue #75 of the Official Nintendo Magazine UK is out today, and within said magazine, we have the world's first review of The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. Details are limited, and I don't personally have a copy of the magazine to consult, but the news on CVG.com is as follows:
Score wise, the game received 98%, which is the highest rating ever to be given out by this particular outlet. The choice quote that CVG plucked from the review says: "Skyward Sword has a lot of heart, backed up by a lot of brains. It's an intelligent and captivating adventure that, through sheer scale and diversity of content, variety of location and ingenious and refined use of Wii Motion Plus, never fails to maintain a firm chokehold on your attentions."
And then the closing lines: "It's not something we say lightly. The Zelda series really has never been this good."
Now, as always, there's the old line about official magazines and all that, but that's nothing to sneeze at. It'll be interesting to see if the multi-platform press align with this review.
To be perfectly honest though, this is a case where I was always going to pick up the game regardless. After all this time, I must know how the finished product comes together. Needless to say, I'm psyched.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 20, 2011, 11:33:30 AM
98% not good enough. Game delayed another Year.
I'm going to have to find it but I'm fairly sure there has been at least 1 game that the official magazine has panned hard from Nintendo that other outlets liked.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 20, 2011, 12:04:18 PM
Very encouraging, even though it's from a Nintendo Magazine. I keep reading about all this content packed in the game I hope it lives up to my imagination.
When one of the developers reveals something about an item in Iwata Asks, I like how he goes "can I reveal that" and Iwata is like "sure there's so much stuff in the game who cares?"
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 20, 2011, 12:43:24 PM
Very encouraging, even though it's from a Nintendo Magazine. I keep reading about all this content packed in the game I hope it lives up to my imagination.
When one of the developers reveals something about an item in Iwata Asks, I like how he goes "can I reveal that" and Iwata is like "sure there's so much stuff in the game who cares?"
But it gets cut off so nothing is said.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 20, 2011, 02:46:49 PM
Not true. In that exact quote (if I remember correctly), he let loose that you can steal keys off enemies with the whip.
That's when the "can I reveal that" "who cares" bit came up.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 20, 2011, 02:57:48 PM
Your right I got the structure mixed up.
Now my response to that is, I would sort of be mad if you couldn't because you could in WW with the grapple which is about the same item.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 20, 2011, 03:12:09 PM
Yeah they're evidence bringing back quite a bit from Wind Waker. I know that if you hold a bomb in the air, enemies will flee. Also, attacks bring up an infliction in the music.
But let me remark on the review real quick. I'm not complaining at the score as it is very encouraging, but I wonder what the 2% deduction is for? If it's really the best Zelda ever, which I really hope it is, then it surpasses so many unbelievable games including the greatest game ever made based on reviews, Ocarina of Time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 20, 2011, 03:31:29 PM
Yeah they're evidence bringing back quite a bit from Wind Waker. I know that if you hold a bomb in the air, enemies will flee. Also, attacks bring up an infliction in the music.
But let me remark on the review real quick. I'm not complaining at the score as it is very encouraging, but I wonder what the 2% deduction is for? If it's really the best Zelda ever, which I really hope it is, then it surpasses so many unbelievable games including the greatest game ever made based on reviews, Ocarina of Time.
They didn't take the Graphics from WW?
I hope that you can pickup weapons like WW at some point. I do like the Dashing things which was what one of our forumers wanted from a girl link.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 20, 2011, 05:02:20 PM
Yeah they took the graphics, but that was obvious. They kind of made it their own though. While WW had flat celshading like a cartoon, SS has a more distinctive quality like a painting.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 20, 2011, 05:07:58 PM
I think SS looks a lot more like a Watercolor.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 20, 2011, 06:59:18 PM
Watercolor is paint, but I get what you mean. Either way, it's very impressionistic.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 20, 2011, 08:45:08 PM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on October 21, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
You know you're doing something correctly when your game extracts a perfect score from Edge. Ordinarily, I don't like to just take review scores and leave, but I'm extremely wary of gameplay spoilers getting loose if I read any of these. I want to boot up Skyward Sword on November 18th with a blank slate.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 21, 2011, 12:12:32 PM
You know you're doing something correctly when your game extracts a perfect score from Edge. Ordinarily, I don't like to just take review scores and leave, but I'm extremely wary of gameplay spoilers getting loose if I read any of these. I want to boot up Skyward Sword on November 18th with a blank slate.
What I heard was I want my Mind Wiped before Nov. 18th. I have a political joke for that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 25, 2011, 08:48:20 PM
Here's a new trailer that is kinda spoilerly, but not really. It shows some cinematics that could be from any point in the game and also the Harp aka Lyre. If you already knew about that, then at least watch the first 25 seconds as I hope that is what the Lyre aka Harp will sound like in-game.
There's also a short version of the EDGE review found HERE. (http://www.next-gen.biz/reviews/legend-zelda-skyward-sword-review) They gave it a perfect 10 out of 10.
And last but not least, you can watch the first 15 minutes (of 35 hours mind you) HERE. (http://www.zeldainformer.com/2011/10/the-first-fifteen-minutes-of-skyward-sword-in-hd-new-play-through-with-new-content.html)
EDIT: So I just watched the first 15 minutes. It's in German and doesn't spoil much of anything.? Anyway, I just wanted to say that from what I saw, the music is fan-fucking-tastic. And the art style...wow, this is exactly how Zelda should look. It's warm and charming, vibrant and distinct. It's perfect.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 26, 2011, 10:00:55 AM
On second thought I really don't want to watch the first 15 minutes. I'll probably not want to watch the first Fifteen Minutes when I'm actually playing the game.
I'm worried that the main Zelda Trope would go away and that's Artificial gating but I don't see it. I can beat Zelda 1 and a good chunk of Zelda 2 without actually defeating a dungeon. (Zelda 2 case I'm doing it right now.) I was hoping it be that way again but with the strong narrative from the sound of it I don't think that freedom be possible.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Dasmos on October 26, 2011, 10:38:01 AM
I was afraid for a while that they were going to do away with the temples completely, but from the sounds of it they're still definitely present. Anyway wanting a Zelda game where you don't have to enter dungeons is like wanting a Call of Duty game where you don't have to kill anyone. Not sure why anyone would want either of those things.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 26, 2011, 11:03:21 AM
I'm worried that the main Zelda Trope would go away and that's Artificial gating but I don't see it. I can beat Zelda 1 and a good chunk of Zelda 2 without actually defeating a dungeon. (Zelda 2 case I'm doing it right now.) I was hoping it be that way again but with the strong narrative from the sound of it I don't think that freedom be possible.
What are you talking about? Zelda 1 and 2 both require players to beat certain dungeons in order to access other dungeons. Unless your talking about going into a dungeon and finding it's item and then going to another dungeon without defeating the boss. In which case that's rather stupid to do because it makes both game way more tedious since you'll just have to redo those dungeons again anyway in order to beat the bosses which is required in order to get to the final dungeons of both games.
If you try to enter the last dungeon in Zelda 1 without all the Triforce piece, an old man will block you. So saying you can beat Zelda 1 without completing all the dungeons is factually wrong. Unless you used some kind of cheating device or glitch, in which case those weren't things Nintendo planned on people being able to do.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 26, 2011, 11:30:22 AM
Will he. Its been over 20 years since I've done that.
A lot of dungeons you can get the item really early. Then you can go use the item to get more heart pieces, go to more interesting dungeons, etc. Some dungeons the end bosses are just way more pain in the neck then later ones where more health or a different item would actually be helpful on the earlier boss.
In OoT I always got the Din something or another in the Desert before I was actually suppose to because it made a lot of things easier to have it earlier.
Its Zelda in the end so I can't say, grind for a few levels and try again. I like having the freedom to do things in my own rough order. I don't like when games that aren't in a level structure force me to wonder and not give me any actual freedom in how I get to where I'm going.
SO I have to do the mandatory 3 temples of uselessness to get the relic of key unlocking. At least let me do them in the order I want. I need 8 Triforce pieces well don't just block me from trying all the dungeons just because.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on October 26, 2011, 03:08:30 PM
Hiramuki: In the Legend of Zelda series up till now, the fields were the scene of more easygoing play, but once you went into a dungeon, you would get a new item and act strategically and solve puzzles. There was a clear division. But this time, you may get a new item in the game field and the search expands from there.
Awesome. Awesome to the max.
Quote
Ito: Uh-huh. But in this game, once you take down a dungeon, you may have occasion to visit it again. You may think that the second time will be easy because you've already beaten it, but there may be new challenges.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on October 26, 2011, 04:11:01 PM
This Zelda... I do not know it. I will not be able to play this blindfolded on the couch. I have trained for the past two years on Wuhu Island, I can only hope it was enough. This is the stuff of Revolutions.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 28, 2011, 03:22:25 AM
Well it's a map that just shows what the overall area's look like from up high so of course it'll look small. It's already been confirmed by all previews that the actual area's are massive and filled with more content than any other Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on October 28, 2011, 05:23:59 PM
Well it's a map that just shows what the overall area's look like from up high so of course it'll look small. It's already been confirmed by all previews that the actual area's are massive and filled with more content than any other Zelda.
I've read them as the opposite. That they are actually smaller but more dense.
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Fujibayashi: All right. First of all, the producer, Aonuma-san, said, "Let's make this Legend of Zelda game compact." Iwata: Miyamoto-san has always said that to Aonuma-san—and this time Aonuma-san said it to you! (laughs) If you make a bunch of new fields, and just stretch it out, it just gets big and can be a bit of a drag.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 28, 2011, 05:59:29 PM
I've read them as the opposite. That they are actually smaller but more dense.
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Fujibayashi: All right. First of all, the producer, Aonuma-san, said, "Let's make this Legend of Zelda game compact." Iwata: Miyamoto-san has always said that to Aonuma-san—and this time Aonuma-san said it to you! (laughs) If you make a bunch of new fields, and just stretch it out, it just gets big and can be a bit of a drag.
Keep reading the interview.
Quote
Fujibayashi: That's right. I thought we could discover a new pleasure if, instead of just stretching it out, we made fields with height and depth, so that every time you went to one, you would experience a fresh surprise and discover new enjoyment.
Iwata: In other words, compact doesn't literally mean small and cramped game fields, but denser ones, while still compact.
Fujibayashi: Exactly.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ymeegod on October 31, 2011, 05:49:57 PM
Things are looking good for Skyward Sword, two reviews are in and both scored high--Edge gave it 10/10 and ONM gave it 98%.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on October 31, 2011, 06:46:27 PM
From Metacritic: "It's not something we say lightly, but the Zelda series really has never been this good...[Skyward Sword is the] best Zelda game ever made." -ONM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on October 31, 2011, 10:38:35 PM
From Metacritic: "It's not something we say lightly, but the Zelda series really has never been this good...[Skyward Sword is the] best Zelda game ever made." -ONM
Oh my... I'm ready...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 02, 2011, 02:06:22 PM
I went and preordered the game yesterday at Target. Now I just have to wait 18 days to get the game. I have been avoiding this topic like Mop it up has so I don't spoil myself as well as any videos online of the game. I want to go into it with a clean slate.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 04, 2011, 04:58:43 AM
"...the last two boss encounters are the most difficult fights in any Zelda game thus far."
No spoilers at all, except a picture shows a new item that was revealed in early trailers. To be clear we saw link using this item, but this screen shows a very clear picture of what it is.
This is sounding very very promising. Hey Ian, ready to start complaining that this is the motion experience we should have had day one?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 04, 2011, 05:07:26 PM
Stop doing this to me! It's so much harder to avoid spoilers when you're parading them around like prostitutes. You're a spoiler pimp, Luigi Dude.
At least I only reveal what Nintendo shows on there website. There's another major spoiler that fan sites have just revealed that's huge but Nintendo hasn't shown it yet so I wont post it because of how huge it is. I can't guarantee others wont though :-X
"...the last two boss encounters are the most difficult fights in any Zelda game thus far."
This actually doesn't surprise me at all. This is one of the reasons I was really excited when they announced Fujibayashi was the director. The man knows how to make challenging final boss fights in Zelda games. The Oracle games and Minish Cap all had hard final boss fights so it's no surprise the guy who made those games would do the same thing with Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 04, 2011, 05:09:53 PM
I'm so damn tempted to look at the spoilers, BUT I WILL HOLD STRONG!!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 04, 2011, 05:17:12 PM
From IGN (http://wii.ign.com/articles/121/1211616p1.html)
Quote
"But Skyward Sword fits the Wii remote like Super Mario 64 fitted the three-pronged Nintendo 64 controller: it's made for it, from the ground up. "
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 04, 2011, 05:18:05 PM
I thought Neal's third dungeon report was spoilers.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 05, 2011, 12:20:33 PM
After the 10/10 from Game Informer, Metacritic posted their score currently at 98.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ymeegod on November 05, 2011, 12:53:21 PM
Surprised Nintendo didn't come out with an collection edition for this game. It's sounds like it's going be an epic game and one of few that I didn't mind spending a few extra dollars on.
Woudn't mind a large cloth map of Hyrule :0.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 05, 2011, 02:28:22 PM
They did. It's comes with a gold WiiMote+. A lot of us have pre-ordered it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ymeegod on November 05, 2011, 03:49:33 PM
Wasn't that just for Japan and Europe? Didn't hear about the NA one, the only thing I was able to get was the CD soundtrack.
NM--Just check and Amazon doesn't carry it but Best Buy and Gamestop does.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 05, 2011, 04:12:33 PM
Amazon sold out.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 05, 2011, 06:52:47 PM
Yeah, you had to get on the boat early with Amazon. After they sold out, you could only get it from a few sellers who were charging out the wing wang. Eventually, they just took the listing down altogether.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NeoStar9X on November 07, 2011, 09:27:41 PM
Nintendo of America has their first TV commercial for Skyward Sword up. It's a part 1 so expect another part of course. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_j-5Um_Ha8
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 07, 2011, 11:26:38 PM
Skyward Sword = beaten. I'm embargoed to high hell, but if you've got any questions, I'll see what I can answer.
It's good, guys. It's real good. (duh)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 08, 2011, 12:46:29 AM
Any Batman cameos?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 08, 2011, 02:47:39 AM
Skyward Sword = beaten. I'm embargoed to high hell, but if you've got any questions, I'll see what I can answer.
It's good, guys. It's real good. (duh)
Does it live up to all the hype?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sundoulos on November 08, 2011, 07:31:26 AM
Now that you're done, Neal, how well do you think it will stack up against previous Zelda titles?
How much of the music seems to be orchestrated?
What are you're feelings on the final boss (I'm not asking who the boss was...)...if it's presumably not Ganon, then does it at least still have a good villain?
Do you have a favorite item in the game?
Do you have a favorite character in the game?
(I realize you can't answer most of these...)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 09:34:09 AM
Skyward Sword = beaten. I'm embargoed to high hell, but if you've got any questions, I'll see what I can answer.
It's good, guys. It's real good. (duh)
Does Tingle cross the Time Space Barrier to be in this Game? Are there Great Fairies? Are they still Hot? Is there a Magic System? (I don't remember seeing one in the screens) How many different types of ways did you have to hold th Wiimote with the Different Items? Are Rupees important or do the go to quick irrevelants like in other games? Is stealth optional? Does the game have a New Game+ Mode? Did the story keep you going till the end or did it peter out in the middle like TP or get delayed ridiculous long by a stupid set of fetching like WW? How big are the areas? Can you make any non-scripted lasting changes to an area? (Like cutting down a sign and it stay cut or look like someone repaired it when you come back.) Did you ever feel a need to use the upgrade system? (I've heard reports that it is fully optional in a way.) Is the game Linear? (In other words there are a certian order you must do about everything. Like taking out bosses traditional or more Mega Man style?) Did you encounter any slowdown or glitching from the system being pushed harder then it probably should have been? Do enemies still com 1 at a time to engage or were you mobbed a lot? Were there many duplicate items? (Like the Bow is essentially an upgrade to the Slingshot in OoT.) What was the difficulty curve like? Shadow Link? Are there Pigs in the game? What about Chickens? Do they get angry and Maim you? Any just plain silly dungeons or is it intense the whole time? When will we be seeing the Floodgates of Info opening?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 09:42:24 AM
Now that you're done, Neal, how well do you think it will stack up against previous Zelda titles?
Very favorably.
Quote
How much of the music seems to be orchestrated?
Pretty sure all of it is.
Quote
What are you're feelings on the final boss (I'm not asking who the boss was...)...if it's presumably not Ganon, then does it at least still have a good villain?
It's epic. It's challenging. It's rather awesome.
Quote
Do you have a favorite item in the game?
I loved the beetle early on, but as time passed, I loved bowling with the bomb.
Quote
Do you have a favorite character in the game?
The little electronic robot dudes in the desert.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 08, 2011, 11:53:20 AM
Does Tingle cross the Time Space Barrier to be in this Game?
No
Quote
Are there Great Fairies? Are they still Hot?
Not that I saw.
Quote
Is there a Magic System? (I don't remember seeing one in the screens)
Nope
Quote
How many different types of ways did you have to hold th Wiimote with the Different Items?
It never gets absurd. Actually, the game doesn't even fully use the pointer for aiming. I lazily played it with my hands facing away from the TV for a few minutes, and outside of doing it in reverse, it worked.
Quote
Are Rupees important or do the go to quick irrevelants like in other games?
It depends on how much you get into crafting and forging
Quote
Is stealth optional?
There is a token stealth section, but it's actually really good. I can't talk details, but I kind of felt like Link was Solid Snake. Awesome moment.
Quote
Does the game have a New Game+ Mode?
Yes. It's called Hero Mode. I'm not 100% sure what the differences are, and I can't go into detail on it until the game's release day.
Quote
Did the story keep you going till the end or did it peter out in the middle like TP or get delayed ridiculous long by a stupid set of fetching like WW?
It's coherent, which seems weird, but I honestly didn't know what the hell was going on in TP. There were like clone Links or something? I don't even know. The cut scene direction is rather good. Dialog is fantastic.
Quote
How big are the areas?
They're not gigantic, but they're dense.
Quote
Can you make any non-scripted lasting changes to an area? (Like cutting down a sign and it stay cut or look like someone repaired it when you come back.)
Not that I could tell.
Quote
Did you ever feel a need to use the upgrade system? (I've heard reports that it is fully optional in a way.)
It's optional, but you'll likely want to upgrade your shield(s).
Quote
Is the game Linear? (In other words there are a certian order you must do about everything. Like taking out bosses traditional or more Mega Man style?)
It seems to be linear. I'm not sure if you can do stuff out of order. It might have a moment like in OoT where you can do Spirit or Shadow.
Quote
Did you encounter any slowdown or glitching from the system being pushed harder then it probably should have been?
It was smooth like butter (also, not dual layer disc)
Quote
Do enemies still com 1 at a time to engage or were you mobbed a lot?
Yes and no. It kind of varies. You don't get swarmed, but more than one guy will attack you at once.
Quote
Were there many duplicate items? (Like the Bow is essentially an upgrade to the Slingshot in OoT.)
Sort of. The example you gave is true here, too.
Quote
What was the difficulty curve like?
Gentle.
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Shadow Link?
Negative
Quote
Are there Pigs in the game? What about Chickens? Do they get angry and Maim you?
Not that I saw.
Quote
Any just plain silly dungeons or is it intense the whole time?
It's generally intense, but there's always light hearted stuff.
Quote
When will we be seeing the Floodgates of Info opening?
Friday is review day. I think we can talk about the second act of the game then. Then, final embargo is up on release day.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 08, 2011, 12:13:14 PM
Neal, will Ian like this?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 12:18:52 PM
Now I'm curious on how dense that Embargo document is.
I'm surprised its not a Dual Layer disc. That means the whole game fits on what 4 gigabytes of space. Thats less then some PS3 Demos I've downloaded.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 08, 2011, 12:27:22 PM
I've gotten this far without knowing all that much about Skyward Sword. With only 10 days until my copy arrives, please do not go overboard into spoiler territory. I don't mind you writing about it, just keep it all within the articles. I can think of many occasions where I've gone to the front page of this website and other sites, and it'll spoil stuff within the headlines and the huge images on display. That's not really avoidable unless I do an internet blackout, which I would rather not do because there are other things to read about.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 08, 2011, 12:28:03 PM
It's not long. There are just three bottleneck days. 11/4, 11/11 and 11/20. It's worded like "don't discuss anything up until XX"
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 08, 2011, 04:35:48 PM
Neal i'm being totally serious, will someone like Ian complain about the the controls? How reliable were they throughout the game?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 08, 2011, 04:37:44 PM
Neal i'm being totally serious, will someone like Ian complain about the the controls? How reliable were they throughout the game?
I can't speak for anyone, but I will say that I will be shocked if a majority of people aren't annoyed early on.
Basically, we've been playing Zelda games a certain way for decades. Skyward Sword controls in a different manner. It's sort of like Phantom Hourglass with stylus control, except this doesn't feel forced. It feels like a natural evolution of the series.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 04:43:56 PM
Neal i'm being totally serious, will someone like Ian complain about the the controls? How reliable were they throughout the game?
I can't speak for anyone, but I will say that I will be shocked if a majority of people aren't annoyed early on.
Basically, we've been playing Zelda games a certain way for decades. Skyward Sword controls in a different manner. It's sort of like Phantom Hourglass with stylus control, except this doesn't feel forced. It feels like a natural evolution of the series.
Wait a minute. Does that mean I'm going to jump off into a pit when I just meant to throw my Boomerang?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on November 08, 2011, 06:04:36 PM
How long did it take you to beat the game? About how much side stuff did you do and not do (a vague guess is fine)?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mantidor on November 08, 2011, 09:17:13 PM
I can't believe no one has asked about how friendly this would be for lefties. Sword seems manageable, but you even play the freaking arp with it in a "realistic" fashion, I'm really afraid I'm not going to be able to enjoy this game if there are a lot of this type of gameplay mechanics.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Dasmos on November 08, 2011, 09:24:40 PM
I don't get it. How is the Wii not already totally ambidextrous? What dictates what hand you hold the Wiimote in?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
I thought Neal already addressed this. I think he even went to say he's playing the game Lefty.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: mantidor on November 08, 2011, 09:28:13 PM
OH Neal si the same other Neal, I forgot!
Im still afraid theres going to be an item that is going to be impossible.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 09:35:27 PM
Stay out of threads regarding it on other forums. It seems some jackass on NeoGaf found a text file in it that contain story details and posted it. Blacked out but still. It's likely to spread now. Some have said what was contain was true but you never know. Better to stay catious. I'm avoiding all Zelda threads and forums save for this one now because of this. .
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 10:28:55 PM
Stay out of threads regarding it on other forums. It seems some jackass on NeoGaf found a text file in it that contain story details and posted it. Blacked out but still. It's likely to spread now. Some have said what was contain was true but you never know. Better to stay catious. I'm avoiding all Zelda threads and forums save for this one now because of this. .
Thats not cool at all. I was sort of upset about the second dungeon stuff from Neal. I be very upset if someone just had the whole game story wise already.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on November 08, 2011, 10:31:33 PM
Apparently Edge magazine gave this game a perfect score.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 08, 2011, 10:46:21 PM
As a lefty, there were zero control issues.
Also, I didn't mean to spoil stuff. I thought I was warning folks by making the article title "Second Dungeon."
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on November 08, 2011, 11:13:51 PM
The only thing that worries me about this game is that Siren Realm stuff. I hate stealh gameplay. Hey Neal, how annoying is that Siren realm stuff and how many times do you have to use it (PM me the answer, please).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 09, 2011, 12:08:12 AM
I'll PM you details, but its worth noting that the Silent Realm stuff is exhilarating. It's very intense, and they're in areas you're already familiar with, so avoiding detection is somewhat easier.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on November 09, 2011, 12:11:59 AM
I'll PM you details, but its worth noting that the Silent Realm stuff is exhilarating. It's very intense, and they're in areas you're already familiar with, so avoiding detection is somewhat easier.
Are they mandatory?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 09, 2011, 12:21:45 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on November 09, 2011, 12:28:01 AM
Neal, you might have missed my questions since I didn't direct them at you, so I'll ask one more time. How long did it take you to beat the game? About how much side stuff did you do and not do (a vague guess is fine)?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 09, 2011, 12:52:01 AM
I'll PM you details, but its worth noting that the Silent Realm stuff is exhilarating. It's very intense, and they're in areas you're already familiar with, so avoiding detection is somewhat easier.
Are they mandatory?
He said exhilarating! Doesn't that settle your fears?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 09, 2011, 11:13:03 AM
Neal, you might have missed my questions since I didn't direct them at you, so I'll ask one more time. How long did it take you to beat the game? About how much side stuff did you do and not do (a vague guess is fine)?
Roughly 35 hours. I was light on side stuff. If I went back and 100% it, I'd say it'd take me roughly 50 hours.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 09, 2011, 11:31:53 AM
How soon can you see yourself playing it again? For example, with OOT and WW, I came back to it in a month to play it all over again.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 09, 2011, 02:37:37 PM
My copy is now in the hands of Andy Goergen (or should be soon) so he can play it before he has a baby.
When I get it back, I'm planning on replaying it in Hero Mode (the name for master quest) and 100%ing it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 11, 2011, 05:00:07 AM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 11, 2011, 04:05:29 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but are there any 100 rupee chests which you can't collect if your wallet is full?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 11, 2011, 05:57:17 PM
Skyward sword gets another 10 from IGN.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 11, 2011, 07:05:30 PM
So the game has been released early in Switzerland and quite a few people already have it. People looking to avoid spoilers might want to unplug their computers because you know the major spoilers are going to spread like wildfire in the next week.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 12, 2011, 12:38:48 AM
As a counterpoint to the trend of Zelda-gushing right now from the critics, the latest episode (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-185-invisible-walls/723938) of GameTrailers.com's Invisible Walls podcast is up. It is worth noting that Shane Satterfield, the host of the show, surprised everyone a few weeks back by declaring that Skyward Sword was his most anticipated title of the Fall. Well, he's started playing the game (and another member of the show has finished it), and wow I don't think it's possible for him to be any more down on the game right now. I'll be curious to see what the eventual review for that game will say, since I'm not sure which of the two podcast members is the reviewer for that game.
In case you're curious, they were very positive overall on Mario 3D Land as the other Nintendo game discussed on the show.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 12, 2011, 09:36:30 PM
As a counterpoint to the trend of Zelda-gushing right now from the critics, the latest episode (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-185-invisible-walls/723938) of GameTrailers.com's Invisible Walls podcast is up. It is worth noting that Shane Satterfield, the host of the show, surprised everyone a few weeks back by declaring that Skyward Sword was his most anticipated title of the Fall. Well, he's started playing the game (and another member of the show has finished it), and wow I don't think it's possible for him to be any more down on the game right now. I'll be curious to see what the eventual review for that game will say, since I'm not sure which of the two podcast members is the reviewer for that game.
In case you're curious, they were very positive overall on Mario 3D Land as the other Nintendo game discussed on the show.
Listening to the complaints, it sounds like Shane wishes the game was more like Skyrim instead of reviewing it as an actual Zelda game. Giant Bombs reviewer was the same way where he said days before he posted his 4/5 review that he finished Skyward Sword he was glad to start playing Skyrim again, which explained a lot of the complaints that reviewer had as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of Skyward Swords lower reviews are the result of the reviewers having just played Skyrim and so they just kept comparing Skyward Sword to Skyrim the whole time they played it. I have no problem with the Elder Scrolls series but making Zelda more like it would ruin a lot of what makes Zelda so great.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 12, 2011, 09:41:48 PM
Listening to the complaints, it sounds like Shane wishes the game was more like Skyrim instead of reviewing it as an actual Zelda game. Giant Bombs reviewer was the same way where he said days before he posted his 4/5 review that he finished Skyward Sword he was glad to start playing Skyrim again, which explained a lot of the complaints that reviewer had as well.
The two complaints I heard in the Invisible Walls episode that bothered me most were complaints about yet another bad Zelda start leading into more pacing issues, as well as issues getting the motion controls to work at times. Granted, some of that could be that these folks just don't play Wii that often so they aren't used to it, but we'll see once the game releases and folks here have a chance to play it. Even Neal admitted that there are some fairly slow sections of the game, though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 12, 2011, 09:47:08 PM
Wow and right after we both post, the Gametrailers review has been unleashed. It got a 9.1 which means either Shane was messing with us or the game must have really picked up for him in the second half.
I'm not going to watch it though since Gametrailers has a bad habit of putting major end of game spoilers in all their reviews. End of game spoilers is too much even for a spoiler lover like me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 12, 2011, 09:51:14 PM
Wow and right after we both post, the Gametrailers review has been unleashed. It got a 9.1 which means either Shane was messing with us or the game must have really picked up for him in the second half.
I'm not going to watch it though since Gametrailers has a bad habit of putting major end of game spoilers in all their reviews. End of game spoilers is too much even for a spoiler lover like me.
Well, I'll watch it since I like GameTrailers' reviews. I'll let you know if there's anything there that looks particularly spoiler-ish.
As for Shane "messing with us", I don't think he was the reviewer. In the Invisible Walls episode, Shane had just started playing and he had another member on who had already finished the game. That person was probably the reviewer, and from the sounds of the podcast the game had grown on him late in the experience.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 12, 2011, 10:03:01 PM
I watched the GameTrailers review, and it was pretty decent but I don't think the review matched the score. The review overall is much more negative than that 9.1 score. As for spoilers, I think in general you're pretty ok watching the review unless you just don't want to know anything about the game. The review does reveal the setup for the main quest, shows a few bosses that are already well-known, and shows a few of the new tools. It's not a big deal for me, but I know a few folks on here who might have issue with the "spoilers".
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 12, 2011, 10:06:12 PM
As someone who's avoiding such things, I appreciate that summary/warning.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: FZeroBoyo on November 12, 2011, 10:11:31 PM
I only know of 3 items, the slingshot, bombs, and Beetle and a few location names.
That's as much as I want to know; I'm going in as fresh as possible this time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: EasyCure on November 13, 2011, 02:18:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39c_csXU_sw (http://[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39c_csXU_sw)]this is to help you guys get ready for Skyward Sword
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 14, 2011, 04:31:22 PM
Well folks, I have something very hard for me to admit, and I'm sure it'll lead to endless amounts of jeering down the line.
Over the last few months I've been very angry at Nintendo of America for how they've handled the Wii this year, especially in light of the Operation Rainfall situation with NoE. As such, I had every intention to impose my own personal boycott on Nintendo of America for the foreseeable future, as I don't think they've earned anyone's money this year.
However, I have Xenoblade now, and it is very good. My Wii is region-free now, and Nintendo of America has no more control over it. As much as I dislike NoA, I just can't muster up the energy to be eternally angry at them now that I'm no longer dependent on them. It's just getting increasingly impractical for me to deny myself a new game in my favorite Nintendo franchise, Zelda, when Nintendo really doesn't care either way and the reviews are looking good.
As such, I ended my little Cold War with NoA today by using trade-in credit to completely pay off a pre-order on Skyward Sword. I don't like the message it sends to NoA, but I no longer care. If they don't want to support the Wii, I'll buy games from a Nintendo division that still does. Besides, it was either use that credit on Skyward Sword or use it on the new Assassin's Creed or Modern Warfare 3, and those games can easily wait until they're discounted.
So yeah, I'm looking forward now to getting the game when it releases next week and discussing it with you folks.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 14, 2011, 04:41:28 PM
You could have ordered it from NoE.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 14, 2011, 04:43:05 PM
After my experience ordering Xenoblade, I really didn't want to go through that again so soon. My Xenoblade package literally did a tour of Europe over the course of a month before it finally arrived, in the meantime having no tracking information of any kind. Taking into account the holiday season, I just don't trust the postal system with a package over that long a period of time.
Besides, I had $71 in trade-in credit to use at GS, as well as a coupon to bring the price of Skyward Sword down to $42. I can at least take some solace in that I didn't spend any physical money on this game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on November 14, 2011, 05:00:53 PM
Besides, it was either use that credit on Skyward Sword or use it on the new Assassin's Creed or Modern Warfare 3, and those games can easily wait until they're discounted.
So yeah, I'm looking forward now to getting the game when it releases next week and discussing it with you folks.
I'm glad you regained your sanity. Honestly, when I read that you would rather get ACR or MW3 over a Zelda game I thought you had gone insane with how many games you play, and I say that knowing that I know you love Nintendo games just as much as anyone here.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2011, 06:13:27 PM
I haven't really followed reviews too much since I don't want to encounter spoilers. But I have found out that a certain gameplay element from an incredibly shitty DS Zelda game is in place here. That alone could single-handedly ruin this game for me. What crack is Nintendo smoking to reuse that idea? Are we going to have melting Yoshi in future Mario games, too?
All the perfect 10 scores don't erase my anxiousness towards this title. We're talking about both motion control AND a comparison to Phantom Hourglass. Just throw in an Other M comparison and I've got my personal unholy trinity of Nintendo disappointments.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 14, 2011, 06:47:24 PM
Ian, if you read Neal's review and this his post there after, he mentions how AWESOME those parts of the game are and also how SPARSE they are.
In a 35 hour game, using the word SPARSE should alleviate your concerns.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2011, 07:37:06 PM
I don't want "sparse" as much as "never". I hope I shares Neal's opinion and those parts are awesome. But I'm going to be skeptical about this game until I play it myself.
Though I'm getting a bit excited as well. So much praise. I really hope it is as awesome as the reviews are saying.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: noname2200 on November 15, 2011, 12:45:08 PM
As much as I dislike NoA, I just can't muster up the energy to be eternally angry at them now that I'm no longer dependent on them. It's just getting increasingly impractical for me to deny myself a new game in my favorite Nintendo franchise, Zelda, when Nintendo really doesn't care either way and the reviews are looking good.
Eh, looking at the release schedule you will, for all practical purposes, be maintaining your boycott for a while yet, so why deny yourself what's probably the last good Wii game that NoA's bringing over?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on November 16, 2011, 01:34:35 AM
Gamespot's Skyward sword review (http://www.gamespot.com/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword/reviews/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword-review-6345839) aka the gamespot zelda shitstorm, part the second.
I haven't played the game so obviously I'm not in any position to say whether or not they're trolling, but it seems like they're following in the footsteps of their twilight princess review.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 16, 2011, 01:40:58 AM
Considering that I think history proved Gamespot right with their 8.8 score for Twilight Princess, I think people should give them the benefit of the doubt with their Skyward Sword review until they've played it themselves. Just glossing over the review (I prefer video reviews over pages of text), it looks like their complaints are the same I've seen in other less-positive reviews of Skyward Sword. A 7.5 is still a good score unless you're Game Informer, where a 7 is apparently "average".
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on November 16, 2011, 01:45:48 AM
yeah i actually agree with you broodwars on the TP comment but i cant help but feel like they're trying to get hits. granted if videogame review scores weren't so inflated then it wouldn't be a big deal. To be frank thats the bigger issue.
btw here's the video review (http://www.gamespot.com/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword/videos/video-review-the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword-6346095?tag=topslot;img;1)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 16, 2011, 01:58:49 AM
yeah i actually agree with you broodwars on the TP comment but i cant help but feel like they're trying to get hits. granted if videogame review scores weren't so inflated then it would be a big deal. To be frank thats the bigger issue.
btw here's the video review (http://www.gamespot.com/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword/videos/video-review-the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword-6346095?tag=topslot;img;1)
Yeah, I just finished watching it. They must have just uploaded it.
The video review's actually pretty amusing. No, it's not because of anything said or shown (which is as boring as usual with Gamespot reviews, where the review is read with all the excitement of Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller's Day Off), but rather what isn't. Apparently, Nintendo must have really pissed the reviewer off, because there are large sections of the video review blurred out with text saying they did this to comply with Nintendo's embargo restrictions. Apparently, an "uncensored version" (their words) will be available at 3:01 AM EST on Sunday.
But yeah, the complaints fall in line with some other reviews I've seen: motion controls that don't always work when you need them to; battles boiling down to waggle after the first strike; and a formula that can get kind of tedious with the fetch quests. We'll see how much of an issue those are when we play the game ourselves, but it worries me that this isn't an isolated review as these complaints keep cropping up.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on November 16, 2011, 05:12:15 AM
From listening to the Hotspot podcasts, Tom Mc Shea can be a bit of an odd ball. His criticisms on the Kinect exemplify how much he values control in video games. I don't know whether he couldn't get a good grasp on the controls or there was nothing to grasp. For sure I know that he thought they were poor. I'll see where I fall in when I get the game.
When I linked in to the video review from the Gamespot Twitter feed and saw that big 7.5, I knew I was in for an interesting week in the other forums I frequent.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 16, 2011, 01:10:51 PM
This doesn't surprise me. From all the reviews and even people playing the game in Europe early, Skyward Sword is basically looking to be this gens Majora's Mask. Like Majora's Mask, there doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground between how people feel. Either people love what the game does and feel it's one of the best Zelda's or they hate what the game does and feel it's one of the worst.
Just look at the average reviews for both Skyward Sword and Majora's Mask.
As you can see, not much middle ground between either game. Either the game is a high 9 or 10, or it's a 9 or below. Not much between the 91-96% range for either. Should make for some explosive debates for the future since both sides are going to really love or really hate the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 16, 2011, 01:32:12 PM
Just looking at the link given this game is uniformly given a great to perfect score. With 4 good-average scores in the bunch, the 3 data points in the 80's and one in the 70's. I would honestly expect a polarizing game to exhibit a lull between the two points where the scores are collecting.
I would agree with you if the majority of the data points were distributed like
1 in the 70's 9 in the 80's 3 in the 90's 8 in the 100's
Even though an 80 is a good score in the examples you would notice a clear divide in the scoring which could indicate the game clicking with someone fully or not. It may also be an indication of whether a full play through happened and the reviewers general like/dislike for the developer.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2011, 01:41:08 PM
A 7.5 for a Zelda game is like giving a normal game a 5. Zelda cannot be okay or decent. It's a series that aims to be the BEST and being merely great is considered disappointing for a Zelda game. 7.5 is also so incredibly off from a 10 that it's hard to tell exactly what to think.
Gamespot gave Mario Kart 64 a 6.4 (was that a joke, why not 6.5?) and Super Mario Sunshine an 8. Both of those go way against the grain of the reviews at the time and both are pretty much dead on in retrospect. Mario Kart 64 is "Cheating Rubber Band AI: The Game" and Super Mario Sunshine is clearly the weakest of the 3D Marios. And as broodwars mentioned their Twilight Princess review score was pretty dead on (they even gave the Cube version a slightly higher score; which is again dead-on as that's the waggle-free "true" version of the game).
But the Wii itself is polarizing to being with. I can't stand motion control. For me Skyward Sword doesn't have to just be the best motion controlled game ever it has to sell me on the concept itself, a concept I already have a huge bias against. Maybe Gamespot's review is from someone who hates motion control to begin with.
But Gamespot is the site that fired someone for giving Kane & Lynch a weak score because their advertisers complained. I stopped going there after that and it hurts the credibility of the whole site.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 16, 2011, 02:02:06 PM
I wouldn't say the Mario Sunshine is the weakest of the 3D Mario games personally. Its 1 of the 3 that I've "Beaten" and wanted to finish. (SMG, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Land 3D.) Its also the one where I've beaten the most content Percentage wise.
I didn't finish nor want to finish Mario 64/DS or SMG2.
The great thing about a Zelda game though is that the people who will ever buy this game series on a whole will buy it regardless of the reviews so we get to really see how people compare it to the Review scores.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 16, 2011, 02:05:06 PM
A 7.5 for a Zelda game is like giving a normal game a 5. Zelda cannot be okay or decent. It's a series that aims to be the BEST and being merely great is considered disappointing for a Zelda game. 7.5 is also so incredibly off from a 10 that it's hard to tell exactly what to think.
Gamespot gave Mario Kart 64 a 6.4 (was that a joke, why not 6.5?) and Super Mario Sunshine an 8. Both of those go way against the grain of the reviews at the time and both are pretty much dead on in retrospect. Mario Kart 64 is "Cheating Rubber Band AI: The Game" and Super Mario Sunshine is clearly the weakest of the 3D Marios. And as broodwars mentioned their Twilight Princess review score was pretty dead on (they even gave the Cube version a slightly higher score; which is again dead-on as that's the waggle-free "true" version of the game).
Ian, Gamespot also gave Majora's Mask an 8.3 which is lower than what Wind Waker and Twilight Princess got from the site. Last time I checked you've said Majora's Mask is better then both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Yet Gamespot gave it a score lower than both games. So using Gamespots reviews to compare Zelda games might not be the best thing for yourself to use.
Like I said before, Skyward Sword seems to be like Majora's Mask where the people who don't like what the game does, really don't like it, while those who love it really love it. This is why a place like Gamespot where the reviewer didn't like what the game did gave it a 7.5 while other places like IGN, Edge, Eurogamer and our very own NintendoWorldReport like what the game did and gave it a 10.
Basically, Skyward Sword is the type of game everyone is going to have to play for themselves in the end because it's looking to be one of those games where it either clicks for people or it doesn't.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 16, 2011, 02:59:04 PM
MARIOKART 64 THE WEAKEST OF ALL MARIOKARTS?!
But it's the game that created 'Drunk Driving'. It's the greatest MarioKart ever!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2011, 03:05:44 PM
A 7.5 for a Zelda game is like giving a normal game a 5. Zelda cannot be okay or decent. It's a series that aims to be the BEST and being merely great is considered disappointing for a Zelda game. 7.5 is also so incredibly off from a 10 that it's hard to tell exactly what to think.
Gamespot gave Mario Kart 64 a 6.4 (was that a joke, why not 6.5?) and Super Mario Sunshine an 8. Both of those go way against the grain of the reviews at the time and both are pretty much dead on in retrospect. Mario Kart 64 is "Cheating Rubber Band AI: The Game" and Super Mario Sunshine is clearly the weakest of the 3D Marios. And as broodwars mentioned their Twilight Princess review score was pretty dead on (they even gave the Cube version a slightly higher score; which is again dead-on as that's the waggle-free "true" version of the game).
Ian, Gamespot also gave Majora's Mask an 8.3 which is lower than what Wind Waker and Twilight Princess got from the site. Last time I checked you've said Majora's Mask is better then both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Yet Gamespot gave it a score lower than both games. So using Gamespots reviews to compare Zelda games might not be the best thing for yourself to use.
Like I said before, Skyward Sword seems to be like Majora's Mask where the people who don't like what the game does, really don't like it, while those who love it really love it. This is why a place like Gamespot where the reviewer didn't like what the game did gave it a 7.5 while other places like IGN, Edge, Eurogamer and our very own NintendoWorldReport like what the game did and gave it a 10.
Basically, Skyward Sword is the type of game everyone is going to have to play for themselves in the end because it's looking to be one of those games where it either clicks for people or it doesn't.
I didn't think to check their Majora's Mask score. MM is like bleu cheese. It's not for everyone, though I have always seen it that way. I've never expected it to be universally loved.
Now is any Wii owner NOT going to try this game out? It's Zelda, it's a given. We'll all find out how we feel about it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 16, 2011, 03:51:07 PM
Again, it's hard to know until it's in my hands, but it wouldn't at all surprise me if certain players who are really not used to involved motion controls like these have difficulties which are not the fault of the game. Some people will have gotten into the habit of flailing thoughtlessly through so many other games, and that could easily influence how they find this game to be. That's the impression I got out of E3 this year, at least.
To give a completely opposite view to Gamespot, I was listening to the Giant Bombcast today, and Patrick Klepek could not have sung the praises for the combat in Skyward Sword more highly. As in, he's speaking along the lines of this being a landmark for all future motion control, and how it's more engaging and satisfying than just about any other game's combat system.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 16, 2011, 04:04:10 PM
You can be lazy if you want. I've been looking forward to this.
I'd play it standing up the entire time if I have to. I'd play it on a broken 13" TV with magnets fucking up the picture. Hell, I'd even play it decked out in cosplay riding a wooden horse if I had to.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 16, 2011, 04:10:31 PM
Again, it's hard to know until it's in my hands, but it wouldn't at all surprise me if certain players who are really not used to involved motion controls like these have difficulties which are not the fault of the game.
I disagree on this point. A game's number one priority, above all else, should be to make sure the player knows how to play the game, and that when they make a mistake they know why they failed. If there's an element of finesse to the controls in Skyward Sword and the game does not make that clear, that's a fault of the game not the player. That's especially true with Nintendo titles, given their love of dumping a seemingly-endless barrage of tutorials on the player.
What I'm seeing with some of the less positive reviews is complaints that the Wii Motion + is just not physically interpreting some movements right, especially when it comes to discerning between a bomb roll and a bomb toss since both use similar movements. It also bothers me that Nintendo only seems to be taking into account the precision of your first swing in swordplay, using that as a stun move to then encourage the player to simply waggle their way to victory. I often made fun of my "flying *****-slap" sword technique in Wii Sports Resort, which was strangely effective despite looking really stupid (with my hand waving the Wii Remote like a feather duster). It disappoints me that it looks like it'll be effective once more in Zelda after a single weakness-exposing swing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on November 16, 2011, 04:44:57 PM
I'm actually wondering if perhaps there's defective hardware out there rather than a major problem with the software. The Zelda demo I played at E3 was definitely fubared, but I played it on a different console than the rest of the staff.
On the other hand, early on, Neal thought he was going to give the game a lower score due to those controls, but they grew on him to the point that he loves them. For whatever reason, that transition didn't happen with some people. I asked him whether the control problem was because they were too sensitive or not sensitive enough, and he said it was too sensitive -- people who are used to waggle instead of precision controls will have to adjust. I guess the rest of us will know soon enough, but if this is truly the case, some people just aren't coordinated enough and there's not much Nintendo can do aside from having multiple control options.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2011, 06:08:47 PM
The problem I have always had with motion controls is that the priority thus far has never been to have a game with precise controls. The goal is more to make controlling the game itself part of the fun. That sort of thing is thrilling to some and annoying to others. Nintendo used to be Mr. Precision when it came to controls. Nintendo games did not have floaty or wonky controls. You pushed left, the character went left. You pushed A, the character jumped. When they had digital controls it was tight. Later they introduced analog controls and from the very first game, precision was there. In Super Mario 64 the speed Mario moved at was reflected in how far you pushed the analog stick and it felt right. Tight, accurate and precise controls are part of making a quality game and Nintendo was on top of that. It is no different than how Nintendo games are not buggy and Nintendo hardware is strong and reliable.
I remember the first time I played Wii Sports golf. At one point in the process of getting the remote into the "down position" my Mii raised the club and when I raised the club he did the downstroke. It was literally up being down and down being up. I couldn't help but think "what the **** is this bullshit?" That experience was a good impression of the Wii as a whole - fighting the controller. Now the idea is that waggling the controller is "fun". But I know the trick. I know it's just mapping a button press to a shake and the how hard or soft I do the shake is completely irrelevant. I know the trick, it doesn't work on me, so I just want the button press so I can play the game without Mario spin-jumping when I don't want him to.
If there are issues with discerning between a bomb roll and a bomb toss, well, that's the whole damn point! That's why motion control sucks! That's why I hate it! For Skyward Sword to truly impress me I have to think "man, I would not want to play this game with regular controls in a million years." The second my waggle is misinterpreted I'm thinking "****, I wish this was a button press". Never ever even ONCE in the game should it make me think that. When playing OoT, when I pressed B, Link swung his sword. He didn't roll into lava or anything like that. I don't want to have to fight the controls. I have no patience for that ****. And I shouldn't have to. Responsive controls are the responsibility of the developer and if motion control prohibits this it should not be used.
After about an hour of play I should feel like I am effortlessly controlling the game without any fear of the wrong action occuring.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 16, 2011, 06:26:47 PM
Ian, I'd like to hear your impressions on Metriod Prime 3 and or the Trilogy (where the new controls were added).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 16, 2011, 06:46:29 PM
The problem I have always had with motion controls is that the priority thus far has never been to have a game with precise controls.
Neal argued that the reason people were having control issues may be that the controls are too accurate and people are used to simple waggle and aren't using enough precision because of that.
Also, expecting the controls work perfectly every time is a pretty high standard since I know a lot of games that just use buttons that can't live up to that. And how will you be able to discern between it not working because the controls didn't work right and it not working because your movement wasn't precise enough?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2011, 07:11:40 PM
Ian, I'd like to hear your impressions on Metriod Prime 3 and or the Trilogy (where the new controls were added).
I didn't like MP3 as much as the previous games because it plays more like a typical FPS and I liked how the first two games controlled. You also are limited on how you can position the controller because of how it points. You have to have it pointing straight ahead. Using the nunchuk for that grapple beam is torture due to how finicky that thing is. I had lots of forward-back reversed controls with that one. I have not played the Trilogy as I bought MP3 prior to the Trilogy release and already have the Cube versions of the original games and don't see any need to buy them again.
Also, expecting the controls work perfectly every time is a pretty high standard since I know a lot of games that just use buttons that can't live up to that. And how will you be able to discern between it not working because the controls didn't work right and it not working because your movement wasn't precise enough?
Fine, is 99% good enough? Most of the best Nintendo games pre-Wii have controls that are as close to perfect as any game can get. This should be comparable to the GC version of Twilight Princess. Control hiccups in that game are pretty damn rare (can't think of any time I encountered one). As for the precision of my movement it has to be like "oops, I went horizontal when I meant to go vertical". That's like pushing the wrong button. It's a human error. But if I do a vertical motion and it interprets it as horizontal, that's crap. I just don't want to ever fight the controls. In every damn Wii game without CC support I have to fight the controls to keep this from happening when I'm just trying to hold the controller still and have that happen when I want it to instead of inaction.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Oblivion on November 16, 2011, 07:22:26 PM
AHHH I CAN'T DO MOTION CONTROL EVEN THOUGH CHILDREN A QUARTER OF MY AGE CAN SO I'LL BITCH ABOUT IT AHHH
Honestly, no (physical) problems with motions controls here. Don't know what your issue is.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 16, 2011, 07:29:41 PM
Something that always used to bug me in the Wii version of Twilight Princess was that when you stunned an enemy in the GameCube version, you could easily pull off 4-5 sword swings before the enemy could get back up again by just rapidly taping the attack button. In the Wii version, you could do I believe a maximum of three swings (the last of which would take extra long to perform) because the Wii took extra time to interpret your waggle shakes. It always used to bug me how much longer boss fights would be artificially extended because of that limitation in the Wii version. I hope they've tweaked the timing in Skyward Sword so you don't run into that "wall" where it feels like you should be more effective in battle than the controls allow you to be.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2011, 07:56:11 PM
Something that always used to bug me in the Wii version of Twilight Princess was that when you stunned an enemy in the GameCube version, you could easily pull off 4-5 sword swings before the enemy could get back up again by just rapidly taping the attack button. In the Wii version, you could do I believe a maximum of three swings (the last of which would take extra long to perform) because the Wii took extra time to interpret your waggle shakes. It always used to bug me how much longer boss fights would be artificially extended because of that limitation in the Wii version. I hope they've tweaked the timing in Skyward Sword so you don't run into that "wall" where it feels like you should be more effective in battle than the controls allow you to be.
Having never played the Wii version I had no idea that was the case. But in that example you know you COULD get more hits in if you were playing the Cube version. But with Skyward Sword there is no other version of the game to compare it to. They also aren't shoe-horning Wii controls in a Gamecube game. The boss fight is longer because the balance was made for the Cube version and then moved over. But with Skyward Sword the boss is designed solely for Skyward Sword and if you can only get three hits in, they should have designed the boss under the assumption you can only get three hits in. It makes all the difference when a game is designed for the ground up for the hardware.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on November 17, 2011, 09:08:18 PM
You can't really compare GameSpot's reviews of Zelda games because they're all done by different people. GameSpot is not one person, so just because one Zelda game got a higher score than another doesn't mean it's better, or even that the person who reviewed Skyward Sword thinks it's worse than previous games. There's also the fact that scores given are relative only to the system on which the game appears and not every other system, plus standards could have easily changed over the decade since Majora's Mask was released (GameSpot works in .5 increments now so a game can't even get an 8.3 anymore), which adds up to a bunch of values that aren't comparable.
Scores are arbitrary. The only thing that should matter is the review text, which I don't want to read yet so I can't say anything of the review. However, from what I gather the controls are the only real negative of the game, and if that was really the reviewer's only issue? That game still sounds a lot better than previous 3D Zelda games that aren't Ocarina, which have a whole host of problems.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 17, 2011, 09:38:13 PM
I haven't played Skyward Sword yet - but it seems like GameSpot's score is horse ****. The game has a 95 on Metacritic after 37 reviews, with well over half of them being perfect 10s. GameSpot is the only one to give it less than an 8. Clearly they're looking for hits.
On a side note, there's a hilarious article on GameStop pointing out that the people who made the new Jurassic Park game have been putting out bogus reviews to boost the score - when GameStop themselves fired one of their own employees a few years ago because he didn't rate Kand and Lynch high enough like Eidos was paying off GameSpot to do.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 17, 2011, 09:45:20 PM
Um, the only review controversy regarding Kane & Lynch was with GameSpot, not GameStop (the only controversy with them was when Game Informer gave an extremely low score to Paper Mario: TTYD).
But, I agree that there is something fishy when a game gets almost universal praise except for one or two reviewers (or vice-versa).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 17, 2011, 09:49:02 PM
I haven't played Skyward Sword yet - but it seems like GameSpot's score is horse ****. The game has a 95 on Metacritic after 37 reviews, with well over half of them being perfect 10s. GameSpot is the only one to give it less than an 8. Clearly they're looking for hits.
I don't think we can say that until we've played the game ourselves and see if we have the same issues. GameSpot was accused of exactly the same kind of grandstanding with their 8.8 review of Twilight Princess, and few would say now that their review was completely off-base.
Quote
On a side note, there's a hilarious article on GameStop pointing out that the people who made the new Jurassic Park game have been putting out bogus reviews to boost the score - when GameStop themselves fired one of their own employees a few years ago because he didn't rate Kand and Lynch high enough like Eidos was paying off GameSpot to do.
On a further side note, I finished the Jurassic Park game last night and wrote up my impressions here (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=29356.msg706392#new) under our User Reviews forum. I thought it was pretty good, though it's going to be an extremely polarizing game due to its Heavy Rain influence.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on November 17, 2011, 09:56:55 PM
I think there's something fishy at hand when people question the validity of a review of a game they haven't even played. It's interesting how Zelda has become such a sacred series that if it doesn't get a 10 from a publication, people would rather question the credibility of said publication than ponder the idea that there could be flaws in the game. Unfortunately, this probably means that some places will hand out a 10 just to avoid the controversy it'd cause if they gave something lower.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 17, 2011, 10:35:32 PM
Even eliminating perfect scores 7.5 is a far outlier and in general now days anything below an 8 is for a competent maybe good game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 17, 2011, 11:13:08 PM
Not having played the game doesn't mean you shouldn't at least be curious at such a low score compared to basically everyone else.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on November 18, 2011, 12:06:11 AM
Not having played the game doesn't mean you shouldn't at least be curious at such a low score compared to basically everyone else.
The problem is a lot of people who haven't played the game love to act like the lowest scores are the most accurate just because they're low. It makes me wonder if I was to make a website and give Ocarina of Time a 4/10, does that mean my review would now be considered the most accurate just because it's the lowest by far even though Ocarina of Time has a 98% average?
Yes it's worth reading low reviews to see why people didn't like the game but the lowest reviews shouldn't be considered more important than the highest reviews, since usually the lowest and highest reviews are both results of biases the reviewers might have.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ejamer on November 18, 2011, 02:05:32 AM
AHHH I CAN'T DO MOTION CONTROL EVEN THOUGH CHILDREN A QUARTER OF MY AGE CAN SO I'LL BITCH ABOUT IT AHHH
Honestly, no (physical) problems with motions controls here. Don't know what your issue is.
I haven't played Skyward Sword so have no idea how valid criticism from that particular review is. However, I have witnessed this reaction first-hand from dozens of gamers who simply can't adjust to having to do more than press a button. When the majority of reviews posted praise the controls for being responsive and intuitive it makes me wonder what they are doing that this particular reviewer isn't.
(It also reminds me of Okami, where dozens of reviews deducted points because "it was impossible to draw a straight line"... yet in the opening tutorial the game explicitly showed you how and it was clearly stated in the manual. Is it the fault of the game that some gamers didn't pay attention to either? How much hand-holding is necessary these days?)
Add that to the fact that being the lowest review score for a major Nintendo franchise is guaranteed to drive traffic - which it certainly has - and the whole thing seems suspect to me. Then again, maybe Skyward Sword deserves the same score as Lost in Shadow (also a 7.5 from the same reviewer). We'll let history be the judge.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ejamer on November 18, 2011, 02:46:33 AM
Just for reference, I looked at the last 20 Wii reviews done by this reviewer. The chart below shows the results, with the first number being his score, the second being the Metacritic average adjusted to a 10-point scale, and the third being the differential.
Zelda Skyward Sword: 7.5 9.5 -2.0 Capain America: 6.0 5.7 +0.3 Thor: God of Thunder: 5.5 5.6 -0.1 Conduit 2: 7.0 6.4 +0.6 LEGO Star Wars III: 6.5 7.6 -1.1 Mario Sports Mix: 4.0 6.4 -2.4 Lost in Shadow: 7.5 6.8 +0.7 Disney Epic Mickey: 6.0 7.3 -1.3 Donkey Kong Country Returns: 8.5 8.7 -0.2 GoldenEye 007: 8.5 8.1 +0.4 Kirby's Epic Yarn: 8.5 8.6 -0.1 NBA Jam: 7.0 7.9 -0.9 Batman: The Brave and the Bold: 7.0 7.0 0.0 Metroid Other M: 8.5 7.9 +0.6 Madden 11: 6.0 7.5 -1.5 Tournament of Legends: 4.5 4.5 0 Super Mario Galaxy 2: 10 9.7 +0.3 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands: 7.5 7.7 -0.2 Mega Man 10: 8.0 8.1 -0.1 Sonic & Sega All Star Racing: 8.0 7.8 +0.2
He is usually very close to the Metacritic average, but with an average of -0.34 difference. Take out the two largest outliers (both negative, Skyward Sword and Mario Sports Mix) and the average difference drops to -0.13.
So it's not "using the full 10 point scale" that causes the difference, and also doesn't appear that he has an axe to grind - well, maybe against Wii-based sports games.
(Edited to fix columns.)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on November 18, 2011, 02:57:47 AM
When the majority of reviews posted praise the controls for being responsive and intuitive it makes me wonder what they are doing that this particular reviewer isn't.
The Gametrailers review has yet to be posted, but discussion of Skyward Sword on episode 185 of the Invisible Walls podcast ( http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-185-invisible-walls/723938 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-185-invisible-walls/723938) - starts at 9:14, there's an MP3 version too) echoes the issues the Gamespot review brings. The controls work 80% of the time, and the 20% when it doesn't is extremely infuriating. Also, the players have trouble tossing or rolling bombs.
Add that to the fact that being the lowest review score for a major Nintendo franchise is guaranteed to drive traffic - which it certainly has - and the whole thing seems suspect to me. Then again, maybe Skyward Sword deserves the same score as Lost in Shadow (also a 7.5 from the same reviewer). We'll let history be the judge.
Tom Mc Shea gave a hard review to Infamous 2 with a 7.0. He really likes Infamous (1) and the Zelda series. He has a record of being a tough critic (if you think calling Infamous 2 and Skyward Sword "good" to be tough).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 18, 2011, 03:13:36 AM
When the majority of reviews posted praise the controls for being responsive and intuitive it makes me wonder what they are doing that this particular reviewer isn't.
The Gametrailers review has yet to be posted, but discussion of Skyward Sword on episode 185 of the Invisible Walls podcast ( http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-185-invisible-walls/723938 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-185-invisible-walls/723938) - starts at 9:14, there's an MP3 version too) echoes the issues the Gamespot review brings. The controls work 80% of the time, and the 20% when it doesn't is extremely infuriating. Also, the players have trouble tossing or rolling bombs.
The Gametrailers review as since been posted, and it's a 9.1. The criticisms of the game pretty much boil down to how much the reviewer thinks the Zelda formula is feeling its age, and that (once again, in their opinion) the industry has advanced beyond game design like this (with a few notes about the controls). It's not anywhere near as negative as Shane's impressions from Invisible Walls.
There's actually something very curious about that review: early in the review, the writer complains about the dungeons having "some of the most complicated and frustrating designs in the franchise." Yet a few minutes later, he calls the dungeons "some of the best the franchise has ever seen." That seems just as tad bit contradictory to me.
Personally, I don't find the reviewer who labels a Nintendo game with a 7.5 score any more questionable than a reviewer who gives out a 10. Scores have gotten so ridiculously inflated over the years (something I heavily blame on Game Informer's insane "a 7.0 is an average score" review policy) that I've grown to heavily distrust the extremely high scores. That's especially true for Nintendo games, as some reviewers seem to treat certain Nintendo franchises like sacred cows, never to be given a less-than-stellar review under any circumstances. Then you just have the trolls like Jim Sterling, of course.
We'll see for ourselves, of course. My personal observation, based on the complaints and praises I've seen, is that most gamers will probably agree that the game is probably around a 9 or 9.5/10 after everyone's played it and the hype has died down a bit.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on November 18, 2011, 04:23:14 AM
Review posted November 12. Damn, wonder how i missed that.
From the other Invisible Walls commentator who finished the game and seemed to be the reviewer, I wasn't expecting the 9.1 score. Hmm, guess those two were just venting their frustrations in that segment. I'm curious to hear if Shane has a change of heart on Skyward Sword in the next Invisible Walls. He seemed to be disappointed and frustrated with the early parts of the game.
One statement in the Gametrailers review that made me wonder is the complaint on the lack of variety and mini-games. Were there a lot of side quests and other things to do in past Zelda games? I do remember the fishing in Ocarina of Time, the photography and other stuff in Wind Waker, and fishing again in Twilight Princess. Ah, with having yet to play Skyward Sword, it would be impossible for me to make a comparison.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 18, 2011, 07:50:51 AM
It's launch day here in Europe, and for once, the postal service is timely. That's right, my copy of Skyward Sword arrived this morning. Oh, happy day! So yeah, you might not hear from me for a while...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sundoulos on November 18, 2011, 07:59:17 AM
I'm envious! Mine won't arrive until Nov 23rd. Have fun!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 18, 2011, 10:25:17 AM
Just for reference, I looked at the last 20 Wii reviews done by this reviewer. The chart below shows the results, with the first number being his score, the second being the Metacritic average adjusted to a 10-point scale, and the third being the differential.
Zelda Skyward Sword: 7.5 9.5 -2.0 Capain America: 6.0 5.7 +0.3 Thor: God of Thunder: 5.5 5.6 -0.1 Conduit 2: 7.0 6.4 +0.6 LEGO Star Wars III: 6.5 7.6 -1.1 Mario Sports Mix: 4.0 6.4 -2.4 Lost in Shadow: 7.5 6.8 +0.7 Disney Epic Mickey: 6.0 7.3 -1.3 Donkey Kong Country Returns: 8.5 8.7 -0.2 GoldenEye 007: 8.5 8.1 +0.4 Kirby's Epic Yarn: 8.5 8.6 -0.1 NBA Jam: 7.0 7.9 -0.9 Batman: The Brave and the Bold: 7.0 7.0 0.0 Metroid Other M: 8.5 7.9 +0.6 Madden 11: 6.0 7.5 -1.5 Tournament of Legends: 4.5 4.5 0 Super Mario Galaxy 2: 10 9.7 +0.3 Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands: 7.5 7.7 -0.2 Mega Man 10: 8.0 8.1 -0.1 Sonic & Sega All Star Racing: 8.0 7.8 +0.2
He is usually very close to the Metacritic average, but with an average of -0.34 difference. Take out the two largest outliers (both negative, Skyward Sword and Mario Sports Mix) and the average difference drops to -0.13.
So it's not "using the full 10 point scale" that causes the difference, and also doesn't appear that he has an axe to grind - well, maybe against Wii-based sports games.
(Edited to fix columns.)
I would argue that according to those scores that he thinks that Skyward Sword is at the same level as Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands and that Megaman 10 and Sonic & Sega All Star Racing.
But then are resident site overlord would sweep in and say...
... Don't judge review scores by other games given that score. Judge them by the text. There is no such thing as a standard score. There is no science to game reviews. It's all opinion. ...
So technically Neal could have given Zelda a 1.
Oh also the forum do support tables. Its just (Add the [ Bracket):
That be a 1 row 3 column table. Might have saved some time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 18, 2011, 10:38:03 AM
Who fucking cares about review scores? They don't make the game better or worse. Does anyone get their jollies from an agreeable review? That is silliness. You're arguing over someone else's view of something. You lose by default. Every time. This is such a colossal waste of time and I'm including my own post trying to explain why.
In any case, Skyward Sword is so close. I need to finish Mario by tomorrow night.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 18, 2011, 11:15:05 AM
Who fucking cares about review scores? They don't make the game better or worse. Does anyone get their jollies from an agreeable review? That is silliness. You're arguing over someone else's view of something. You lose by default. Every time. This is such a colossal waste of time and I'm including my own post trying to explain why.
In any case, Skyward Sword is so close. I need to finish Mario by tomorrow night.
A lot of people or there wouldn't be aggregate sites. Scores are a way to make a quick decision about something.
In this case its a means of discussion in the lack of anything else to really discuss with the game so close. People like to have things in quantifiable understandable terms. Consumer Reports is a very good example of this. While a review of all of this years cars would be more informative a rating lets me quickly eliminate the ones I'm not interested in.
You can't tell me that you haven't bought or done something because it got a good rating. The power of the rating is so large that all shopping sites have one with the product.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 18, 2011, 11:55:15 AM
Obviously, people care about review scores otherwise reviews wouldn't exist. The question was rhetorical. It makes no sense to judge something based on someone else's understanding of it. More to the point, I'm pushing the shenanigans broom on people complaining that some website's review score isn't high enough. What the hell is the purpose of that? So some stranger doesn't like a game as much as you think you will. Arguing the merits of a review or a score is ultimately pointless. If you disagree with a review, you've already made the decision that it doesn't matter. This is especially true of a game like Zelda. Most have already made the decision of whether to buy the game despite what reviews say. Do reviews justify that choice? They shouldn't. Why would you need validation for that? Does anyone like a game more/less because someone else did? That's silly.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 18, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
I personally think having scores is bad for reviews, but I understand that there's zero possibility of them going away. Not only will (stupid) people be upset by it, but publishers will hate you because it's a lot harder to market a text-only review than to slap a score on the back of a box. Scores are a crutch, but they're one that's not going away, so we're going to have to live with bullshit like this whining about scores.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 18, 2011, 12:20:54 PM
I personally think having scores is bad for reviews, but I understand that there's zero possibility of them going away. Not only will (stupid) people be upset by it, but publishers will hate you because it's a lot harder to market a text-only review than to slap a score on the back of a box. Scores are a crutch, but they're one that's not going away, so we're going to have to live with bullshit like this whining about scores.
+2. You will get another one in an hour. I just don't know how else to agree with you more.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on November 18, 2011, 12:24:50 PM
We can't all afford to give every game a chance so reviews are useful. Scores are just easy to check. When you're curious about a game, you can go to Game Rankings and get a rough idea. If the average score is good then you'll probably check a few reviews and make your decision. If the average score is really low you're probably safe to avoid it. It's all for the benefit of being a smart consumer. Games that unanimously get low scores are often total crap. Plus sometimes a review is not written in such a way that is obvious that the reviewers likes it. Too many "on the other hand" and "having said that".
A good endorsement for this game is that my brother played it on a demo kiosk at the mall and said that the motion control was really responsive. He is as anti-motion control as I am and he was telling me "Ian, don't worry. It controls really well."
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 18, 2011, 12:30:58 PM
*shrug* I mostly just read the review here and that I read in the talkback thread where you can't see the score anyways.
Though this Corban guy gave Super Mario 3D Land a 12 out of 10 I heard.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 18, 2011, 12:33:38 PM
I will admit, though, that scores can be handy in certain, limited ways. If I'm reading reviews I base my decisions on the text, not the scores, but the scores present a simple way to pick reviews to read with differing opinions.
Though this Corban guy gave Super Mario 3D Land a 12 out of 10 I heard.
And I stand by that review 120%.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Nbz on November 18, 2011, 03:19:04 PM
So Amazon delivered 2 delights this morning in the form of Skyward Sword and 3D Land, the latter of which I haven't even touched yet because I've been so involved with Skyward Sword. I've played around 4/5 hours of it at this point and have formed a few opinions of the early game.
First of all, the start of the game is still relatively slow. Its nowhere near as painstaking as Twilight Princess' opening but doesn't have the instant jump straight in there Ocarina of Time feel. However, I understand that a big part of why it felt slower was to do with the background story, and introducing interesting characters around Skyloft. You'll be able to enter your first area within an hour or so, meaning that you have to get to grips with the sword play from a pretty early stage.
Overall I'm pleased with the motion control, and have started to better understand how everything works after these first few hours. As multiple people have said, you cannot waggle your way to victory in this game. You may get away with killing a few enemies by doing that at the start, but soon you realise that you have no hope if you stick to that method. A significant detail about the controls which I picked up on a couple of hours into the game, is that the sword swings are much more effective if you slow it down and make larger gestures. I had previously been flicking my wrist in the appointed direction, but using a full swing will give you much better results.
The first temple is relatively short, if you consider it a stand alone area. However, if you consider the woods preceding it and the various things you have to do there as part of the temple then it turns out to be a pretty meaty affair. The transition between overworld and dungeon is much more blurred than in previous games, though you still clearly know when you are going from one to the other. The puzzles were nothing too special, but as it is the first dungeon I'll cut it some slack, though I do expect later areas to be more demanding.
Another thing - it is easy to die in this game if you aren't paying attention/don't know what to do. Timing is absolutely key and if you screw it up even a tiny bit then you are brutally punished. At one point I was trying to take out a swinging spider by spin attacking to expose its belly then attempting to stab it in the jewel. But because my timing was off and I couldn't get a feel for it I ended up losing 5 hearts to this one enemy without even killing it, as the momentum created by my sword meant that the spider kept knocking back into me.
Ghirahim was also a tough first boss, perhaps the hardest first boss in any Zelda game. I died on him twice, and this was down to a couple of things. The main problem was his first form, in which he attempts to block your attacks using his fingers. The issue with this is that his "tell" for the direction that you are supposed to strike is very unclear. I found myself thinking that I had it but then realising that it was something completely different. You won't have issues dying on this phase as its relatively easy to break free of his grip. Its the second stage that gave me problems, mainly because I didn't know how to avoid his charge attack. I kept trying to run away, whereas you are actually meant to counteract him with your own sword. This lead to quite a bit of frustration, but I did manage to pull through in the end.
So far the game is very enjoyable and has been much more challenging than the opening of any other Zelda game that I have played. I'll keep checking back in with my thoughts as I get deeper into it :D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 19, 2011, 10:28:32 AM
This video is great. I believe it's gamespots video review for roughly half a minute talking about how bad the controls are. Then this guy is playing as perfect as possible. I say just listen, don't look at the video until the man stops talking. It's pretty fun.
Here is the link at 26 seconds. Just watch from there, no spoilers at all but a lizalfo. The beginning bad mouths the controls while this guy basically shuts him up.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 19, 2011, 10:32:39 AM
This video is great. I believe it's gamespots video review for roughly half a minute talking about how bad the controls are. Then this guy is playing as perfect as possible. I say just listen, don't look at the video until the man stops talking. It's pretty fun.
Here is the link at 26 seconds. Just watch from there, no spoilers at all but a lizalfo. The beginning bad mouths the controls while this guy basically shuts him up.
I like how that Video is done with it clean cut out of the guy.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 19, 2011, 12:18:58 PM
Maybe the controls are perfect and some people just suck at videogames.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 19, 2011, 12:41:48 PM
Time for my first progress report. I've roughly 7 hours in, currently at the entrance to the second dungeon. I would have played more if not for prior commitments. Gotta say, I'm pretty damn elated so far.
I'll try not to retread the impressions that Nbz gave yesterday, although I must give my take on the big talking point: the Motion Plus combat. I think it is truly excellent, because it really is, as sword fighting should be, about outsmarting the enemy. One of the core fundamental I learned quickly is that the blocking stances taken by your foes aren't random; rather, they track the point of your sword as you move it around and move their weapons accordingly. To begin with, I was having trouble outmanoeuvring the series staple Bokoblins, until I realised that the trick is to confuse them. Basically, you goad them into blocking a certain way, then reposition before they can react to it. It's great because there are no lazy combat encounters. If you think you can swing willy-nilly, even the regular enemies will make you pay. I will also echo Nbz's thoughts about the first boss battles, which very much epitomises what I've been talking about. Lord Ghirahim pushed me down the wire -- it seriously gets the adrenaline pumping.
I've also enjoyed other aspects of the motion control, but I will leave comment about that for when I've acquired more items.
Now for some aspects of the game that have been discussed much less, some stuff that surprised me. Link has a few new mobility enhancements in Skyward Sword. Firstly, he can move around in first person! It's only really used for a mechanic that I won't delve into right now, but still, I didn't expect that at all. Secondly, he seems to have taken a page from certain modern action games, in that there's a fair amount of solo climbing. You may have heard that Link has a stamina bar for running, lifting, spin attacking and such, but what you might not know is that running against a vertical surface will have Link scale it and can leap around on ledges, like Nathan Drake or Ezio. I find it satisfying just to move around in this game.
Lastly for today's impressions, I'd like to speak about the structure of the game. It is perhaps a bit soon to discuss this so early on (again, I'm only at the second temple). At the moment, the structure appears to be somewhat unusual for a Zelda title. Essentially, Skyloft, your home island in the clouds, is kind of like a hub world, and via gaps in the cloud, you descend to different regions of Hyrule. You can travel between land and sky very easily, and I can confirm that there are other, smaller sky islands to discover on your Loftwing, which is cool. As for Skyloft itself, the place is more or less side-quest central, and it looks like there is some Majora's Mask stuff going on, in that helping people solve their problems earns you Gratitude Crystals, which go towards a meta side-quest. The things I've sampled so far have been decent breaks.
However, the real stand-out is how utterly fantastic the construction of the world design is. The two locations I've been through thus far, Faron Woods and Eldin Volcano, are laid out in a looping, overlapping manner. To put it another way, the routes you take are intertwined, and shortcuts to previous areas can be made, so it never takes too long to get anywhere and backtracking is painless. Moreover, these areas are more like obstacle courses - they aren't as puzzle-focused as dungeons, but there's very little flat, empty space to cover. And on a minor note, I've already encountered two brand new species of friendly characters, one of which is a hybrid between a kiwi bird and a plant...!
I hope this has given some context for the sceptics out there. I personally think you should buy Skyward Sword. In my opinion, it is the bee's knees.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ymeegod on November 19, 2011, 01:21:11 PM
Anyone else getting it tonight at the midnight release? Had to reconnect my WIi just to find out I'm going need another Component cable since tha Madcatz one is dead (Again).
After sales tax & coupons given I'm paying $34. Highest I paid for a game all year ;0.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on November 19, 2011, 03:08:51 PM
Maybe the controls are perfect and some people just suck at videogames.
Saw a lot of this at E3. Which is laughable considering how many health potions they give you in the demo.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 20, 2011, 04:20:26 PM
Another negative Skyward Sword review. (http://venturebeat.com/2011/11/19/review-skyward-sword/) Perhaps, the most negative yet.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on November 20, 2011, 04:31:09 PM
I wouldn't really call that a review.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shaymin on November 20, 2011, 05:15:14 PM
lol, venturebeat
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 20, 2011, 06:29:17 PM
Zelda is kind of a nag and a tattle tale so far. I DONT WANT TO PRACTICE WOMAN GET OFF MY BACK
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 20, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
Sadly, I have to wait until tomorrow to pick up my copy. I was tied up with work today, and by the time I managed to get out my GS was closed. Oh well. At least I found the track list for the CD today, and it seems to be a pretty decent selection (though I have my doubts that it's the full concert with only 8 songs).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 20, 2011, 08:00:38 PM
No, having read all 4 pages of it, it's definitely a review...just a really badly-written one. The guy seriously needs an editor and a lesson in professional writing, as he's prone to tangents; rants; and insults at the reader. He can't seem to make up his mind if he's writing a Skyward Sword review or a rant about how much worse the Wii has made gaming. The things that he criticizes I've seen criticized in other reviews, but the way that he does it is really unprofessional. He had an anti-Wii agenda going into the review, and it's very obviously manifest therein.
It's a review, but it's one that reads like a blog entry and is very poorly-written.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on November 20, 2011, 08:21:54 PM
Should the day ever come where Nintendo is taken seriously by all gamers, none of these websites will be. They will hopefully have lost too much credibility for anyone to pay them any attention. Of course, that implies that they had credibility to begin with...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MegaByte on November 20, 2011, 08:48:04 PM
The guy seriously needs an editor and a lesson in professional writing, as he's prone to tangents; rants; and insults at the reader. He can't seem to make up his mind if he's writing a Skyward Sword review or a rant about how much worse the Wii has made gaming.
That's why I wouldn't call it a review.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_Neal on November 20, 2011, 10:43:12 PM
I would like to think we also don't treat any of our readers as badly as VB is in the comments in that review. I know I've wanted to virtually slap NinSage before, but there's nothing but love for all of you guys. We wouldn't be here without you.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 20, 2011, 11:25:20 PM
I loved TP when it first came out, now I don't love it quite so much. Maybe my opinion of this will change someday too. But the music and the atmosphere do it for me so much! Happy jolly tunes, epic pieces, and a few emo dungeon like tunes. TP had NOTHING but emo tunes an over world theme and a main theme, could not stand it! The grass is so green and the sky is so blue! My biggest complaints about TP have been fixed. I love sunshine and lollipops.
The character designs are so cool as well! These guys will never be forgotten! They have so much personality and color!
I played 5 hours straight, maybe 6 and made it to the door step of the second dungeon. My sword swinging accuracy is 100%, everything I wanted to do Link did. I had trouble bowling bombs though since I was lying down and it was hard to aim down before the bowl.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on November 20, 2011, 11:30:04 PM
I'm fortunate enough to have a wife that bought this game as a xmas present, but understood the importance of not waiting til xmas to give me the present :)
Only was able to plug maybe an hour and a half into the game today due to family obligations. I read a review somewhere that states the game fails to truly pull you in for a few hours, and I find that to be half-true in the sense that the tutorial part of the game drags on longer than I'd prefer, although I understand why they would do this. I think the dialogue is very well written and clever so far, which makes this part bearable.
I should probably pay attention to the instructions a bit more, as my lack of attention caused me to take twice as long to complete some of the flying parts than it should have. I mistakenly thought the way you gained speed also was the way you gained altitude, a la Super Mario World cape powerup, but didn't realize you are actually supposed to shake the wiimote separately to gain altitude. This turned flying from an incredibly frustrating experience to something much more satisfying.
I can't wait to play more.
As a side note, the Wiimote Plus that comes with it is very slick, and I like the feel of the controller (has a more grainy feel than the regular ones). The soundtrack sounds fantastic, but I would have preferred to have more tracks than what it has.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Tamazoid on November 21, 2011, 12:52:18 AM
Another negative Skyward Sword review. (http://venturebeat.com/2011/11/19/review-skyward-sword/) Perhaps, the most negative yet.
How is that a review? Most of it is him ranting on about TP/ how Skyrim is awesome/ How crap Nintendo is/ how the reviewer suffers from Homophobia/ How Zelda needs to adopt Prince of Persia jumping mechanics.
I find it amusing that he thinks that everyone that thinks his review is rubbish is 'trolling' him and that he believe he is the only honest reviewer out there as apparently all the others are blinded by Nintendo fan boyism, are being paid off by Nintendo or scared of the fan boys descending on them.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 21, 2011, 01:49:36 AM
I remember when Zelda games gave me a sword and shield within 10 minutes, sometimes less and let me start slicing and stabbing things. Those were the days. It took me over 2 hours to get out of Skyloft. At first, I was just putzing around. I was wandering and exploring and talking to everyone. Unfortunately, there's a lot of running back and forth to trigger certain events. I wasn't a fan of flying ceremony thing but I never liked flight games so there was nothing that segment could do to be interesting. Not as annoying as catching the fish in Twilight Princess but still lame.
The cutscenes are especially painful. They're long and boring. I'm in the voice acting camp but what's more annoying is how slow the texts appears. If I'm forced to read text, Nintendo could least let me do so at my own pace. I found myself repeatedly pressing A in vain, hoping the whole block text in the box would appear so I could just read it and move on. Text is especially annoying when Robot Fi speaks. God, she's boring. I pined for sassy Midna.
The music is phenomenal. The graphics still manage to impress despite the Wii's dated hardware. I'd love to see Nintendo try this art style again on Wii U though I have a feeling they'll try something new.
How is Fi supposed to be pronounced? I've been saying it like "fee" instead of saying it as if rhyming with high.
I've barely scratched the surface of the game. The only thing that really sucks about the game is how long it takes to get going. The tutorial sections are so oppressive. They bog the game down. I wish more games were like Chrono Trigger where, in all non-essential conversations, you could literally walk away from someone when you weren't interested in what they had to say. Eventually, you'd walk away so far that they would stop talking or you couldn't hear them anymore. Either way, you just moved on. No such luck here. Everyone talks and very slowly. The first few hours are critical. I just haven't had the same drive to play games like I used to. If a game doesn't hook me right away, I'm liable to become so disinterested that I stop playing entirely. If this was anything but Zelda, I would have turned the game off and probably returned the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 21, 2011, 02:10:02 AM
Anyone else having a hard time slicing the piranha plants?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 21, 2011, 07:14:03 AM
More than in previous games but only because they're more aggressive and there's more emphasis on dodging rather than holding your shield up until it's safe. The older games babied players. Skyward Sword rethinks the entire battle system and is better for it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 21, 2011, 07:41:57 AM
HOW DO I STINKING SWIM?
I'm 100% sure I'm suppose to hit a switch now underwater in the first dungeon AND I CAN'T DIVE. Nintendo says to just point down and Link will be able to swim IT DOESN'T WORK.
This game is getting very frustrating. Hey this is an amber I know you already collected 20 of these but I'm going to tell you about them again. Hey use you shield oh by the way you can only us 4 TIMES before it will almost be broken if you don't get you active dodge right. Hey beep Beep Beep. Get OFF MY BACK. Cut this spiderweb oh wait you missed 1 STRAND of web now your caught and have to split the wiimote and nunchuk apart.
STINK You FI. STINK you ZELDA. I mean if ZELDA can get through this DUNGEON unarmed then why can I with a potions, slingshot, sword and shield barely make it past the FIRST Skulltula.
I am so FRUSTRATED with this game at the moment. I JUST WANT TO STINKING DIVE INTO THE WATER IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK. AAARGGGGGGGG
*grumble* Finally found the thing under a bridge*grumble* You know what else gets me is I go and repair my EQUIPPED SHEILD and it just unequips it. Doesn't ask if I want it back or anything and I normally don't notice till I'm in the middle of the fight. YOU HAVE TO STINKING TELL ME ABOUT MY COLLECTABLE BUT A SIMPLE "DO YOU WANT TO EQUIP YOUR SHIELD AGAIN?" AFTER REPAIR IS TOO MUCH?
There is no way in God's Green Earth this game would get a 10 from me. Thats totally off the table now. Its going to have to work hard to get a 9 at this point.
I feel so Limited all the time. LIke the Skulltula. Hey I could shoot the string they are hanging from with the slingshot. Nope, the string is made out of steel. You can't tell me that Link can muscle out of but my Slingshot can't shoot through it. Seriously. I know the Beetle will do it. Also hey you have to poke the purple part when you see it... What I can do a Vertical slash or my goddess slash to hit it and and do damage. I'm fairly sure it would it is considering IT STICKS OUT from the body and isn't protected vertically.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: leahsdad on November 21, 2011, 07:54:58 AM
I just wanted to echo what KillerManJaro and others have said about the motionplus combat. It is really, really good. After I played Red Steel 2, I got really worried for Zelda, because I already knew that it would feature Motionplus combat as well and I HATED Red Steel 2's sword combat. I think in the hours before I popped it in, I kept chanting to myself "Don't be like Red Steel 2. Don't be like Red Steel 2. For the love of all that is sacred in the world, please don't be like Red Steel 2."
Obviously, it is not like Red Steel 2. I can't quite put my finger on what is different about the swordplay. I want to say that in Skyward Sword, it's actually fun. But that doesn't really explain it. It's been more than a year since I played Red Steel 2, and I stopped playing after a couple hours, but from what I remember, Red Steel 2 seemed to require stronger, more dramatic swings to be effective. But I seem to think that the motions seemed really repetitive in Red Steel 2, and in Skyward so far, nothing feels repetitive. It is just fun. Each swing is enjoyable. I can't quite articulate why.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 21, 2011, 12:16:55 PM
So far I enjoy Red Steel 2's sword play more.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 21, 2011, 12:52:15 PM
Hey Ceric I kinda had the same issues but there is ways to go about it to make the first dungeon. I think most of us are just doing things the hard way when there is an easier way. I have already died 3 times in the dungeon and in retrospect they could have been avoided if I did a few things differently.The first 2 times were because I was doing things the hard way and the last time was near the end of the dungeon. You guys need to keep in mind to use all of your sword attacks. Some attacks are more effective on certain monsters. Anyway I am going to get back into the game right now.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 21, 2011, 12:56:57 PM
Hey Ceric I kinda had the same issues but there is ways to go about it to make the first dungeon. I think most of us are just doing things the hard way when there is an easier way. I have already died 3 times in the dungeon and in retrospect they could have been avoided if I did a few things differently.The first 2 times were because I was doing things the hard way and the last time was near the end of the dungeon. You guys need to keep in mind to use all of your sword attacks. Some attacks are more effective on certain monsters. Anyway I am going to get back into the game right now.
If its not a Skulltula or a Web I'm pretty good Getting rid of the enemies. Its just those stupid Skulltula. I've died 6 times 4 of those from the same Skulltula. The other 2 from other Skulltula...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 21, 2011, 01:51:52 PM
Hey Ceric I kinda had the same issues but there is ways to go about it to make the first dungeon. I think most of us are just doing things the hard way when there is an easier way. I have already died 3 times in the dungeon and in retrospect they could have been avoided if I did a few things differently.The first 2 times were because I was doing things the hard way and the last time was near the end of the dungeon. You guys need to keep in mind to use all of your sword attacks. Some attacks are more effective on certain monsters. Anyway I am going to get back into the game right now.
If its not a Skulltula or a Web I'm pretty good Getting rid of the enemies. Its just those stupid Skulltula. I've died 6 times 4 of those from the same Skulltula. The other 2 from other Skulltula...
How are you fighting it? Is it still attached to its web overhead?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 21, 2011, 01:56:45 PM
Hey Ceric I kinda had the same issues but there is ways to go about it to make the first dungeon. I think most of us are just doing things the hard way when there is an easier way. I have already died 3 times in the dungeon and in retrospect they could have been avoided if I did a few things differently.The first 2 times were because I was doing things the hard way and the last time was near the end of the dungeon. You guys need to keep in mind to use all of your sword attacks. Some attacks are more effective on certain monsters. Anyway I am going to get back into the game right now.
If its not a Skulltula or a Web I'm pretty good Getting rid of the enemies. Its just those stupid Skulltula. I've died 6 times 4 of those from the same Skulltula. The other 2 from other Skulltula...
How are you fighting it? Is it still attached to its web overhead?
Unfortunately yes because its made of the webbing that is impervious to Sling Shot fire.
Eventually what I've had to do is do a Light Slash horizontally to get it flipped around but now its swinging like mad as I try to poke it since vertical slashes aren't working.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 21, 2011, 02:00:22 PM
Hey Ceric I kinda had the same issues but there is ways to go about it to make the first dungeon. I think most of us are just doing things the hard way when there is an easier way. I have already died 3 times in the dungeon and in retrospect they could have been avoided if I did a few things differently.The first 2 times were because I was doing things the hard way and the last time was near the end of the dungeon. You guys need to keep in mind to use all of your sword attacks. Some attacks are more effective on certain monsters. Anyway I am going to get back into the game right now.
If its not a Skulltula or a Web I'm pretty good Getting rid of the enemies. Its just those stupid Skulltula. I've died 6 times 4 of those from the same Skulltula. The other 2 from other Skulltula...
How are you fighting it? Is it still attached to its web overhead?
Unfortunately yes because its made of the webbing that is impervious to Sling Shot fire.
Eventually what I've had to do is do a Light Slash horizontally to get it flipped around but now its swinging like mad as I try to poke it since vertical slashes aren't working.
Well you have to time your pokes well. You have the beetle yet?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 21, 2011, 02:01:18 PM
Hey Ceric I kinda had the same issues but there is ways to go about it to make the first dungeon. I think most of us are just doing things the hard way when there is an easier way. I have already died 3 times in the dungeon and in retrospect they could have been avoided if I did a few things differently.The first 2 times were because I was doing things the hard way and the last time was near the end of the dungeon. You guys need to keep in mind to use all of your sword attacks. Some attacks are more effective on certain monsters. Anyway I am going to get back into the game right now.
If its not a Skulltula or a Web I'm pretty good Getting rid of the enemies. Its just those stupid Skulltula. I've died 6 times 4 of those from the same Skulltula. The other 2 from other Skulltula...
How are you fighting it? Is it still attached to its web overhead?
Unfortunately yes because its made of the webbing that is impervious to Sling Shot fire.
Eventually what I've had to do is do a Light Slash horizontally to get it flipped around but now its swinging like mad as I try to poke it since vertical slashes aren't working.
Well you have to time your pokes well. You have the beetle yet?
No, I'm hoping I'll get it soon. Once I have it I know I can cut the lines with it.
Though when I was playing the demo in target, which is why I know the Beetle can cut the lines, I didn't know about final strikes so I get them flipped over but I couldn't hit there tummies.
I also like to find some tumbleweed so I can finish upgrading my shield but, I figure that's in the desert area. I really haven't gotten much parts except ambers...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 21, 2011, 02:06:45 PM
If you are where I think you are then you should be able to use your slingshot on something. Look around and see if you can find it. It should open up where the beetle is.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on November 21, 2011, 03:44:03 PM
How does the difficulty of thi game comapre to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 21, 2011, 04:01:20 PM
How does the difficulty of this game compare to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess?
It is the hardest 3D Zelda game. Majora's Mask is probably behind it as far as difficulty goes. The rest of the 3D Zelda games are way easier then this. c
Anyway I am starting the second area. Make sure you get a different shield for the area.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 21, 2011, 05:21:23 PM
I finally found an opening to go in and pick up my copy of Skyward Sword (which, using my 15% off coupon was only around $42. Nice). Just looking through the packaging, I really like how they've handled the symphony CD by giving it its own disc tray and liner notes w/ track listing. So many companies just throw these things into little paper sleeves and call it a day.
I did get a little scared for a moment putting the game in, though, as the game insisted on a firmware update. I was afraid my import copy of Xenoblade was about to get ****ed over. Thankfully, all the firmware update did was update the firmware...to the same firmware I already had. Thanks for wasting my time, Nintendo!
Staring the game now...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 21, 2011, 05:22:53 PM
On My it came up and Thanked me for Purchasing the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 21, 2011, 06:09:03 PM
Wow, I haven't seen aiming this sluggish since the last time I plugged in my Playstation Move. Why did Nintendo decide to only use MotionPlus for the aiming, when the Wii's most consistent strength has been the speed of its pointer control? It's taking me a long time to get used to having to use Z-targeting for camera control as well. I know the Wii can't do any better without losing the motion controls and supporting the Classic Controller Pro, but Z-targeting feels really clunky these days. I really wish the dialogue was as fast to display by default as it is when you hold down the A button, as well.
I'm also confused as to why Nintendo had to go with save points when you can save whenever you want in Xenoblade and previous Zelda games (though in those games, you were taken back to the beginning of the dungeon.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on November 21, 2011, 06:09:18 PM
How does the difficulty of this game compare to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess?
It is the hardest 3D Zelda game. Majora's Mask is probably behind it as far as difficulty goes. The rest of the 3D Zelda games are way easier then this. c
Anyway I am starting the second area. Make sure you get a different shield for the area.
The reason I ask is because I could beat those games blindfolded.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 21, 2011, 06:18:39 PM
I think it's because you need those points for other things.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 21, 2011, 06:26:33 PM
I think it's because you need those points for other things.
Yep the save points are also like warp points in that you can go to those places rightway when entering the area if you examine them. There is some need to go back to the areas after you finish up the dungeon in that area.The areas are pretty big so it is nice to go to a certain area without going through it all. Also they are ways to get back up to the sky.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 21, 2011, 06:43:27 PM
So I asked this over at Pixlbit, but didn't get a complete answer.
This is now the earliest Zelda game, set before Ocarina of Time. Where does Minish cap fit? I thought that was the origin of his green hat.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 21, 2011, 06:57:12 PM
Does the loftwing ever not suck as a mode of transportation? I just finished catching the golden snitch at the Quidditch match winning the Loftwing "race", and I've found that thing a lot harder to control and steer than it feels like it really should (it didn't help that Zelda's endless tutorials kept getting in the way).
EDIT: Oh geez...skydiving controls even worse. It took me probably 8-9 times to get that sequence right, and every time I failed I had to page through the same Zelda dialogue. Ugh...
Why, Nintendo? Why did you have to shove motion control where it wasn't needed and where it didn't make the game any more immersive? The bird would have controlled fine with the analog stick, but at least that I can kind of understand why you mapped it to motion control. But there's nothing intuitive about how skydiving controls, and it would have been just fine with an analog stick. Sheesh, it's stuff like this that makes Nintendo hard to cheer for with 1st party software: putting motion control where it's not needed and actually makes the game worse just to have it there. It's DKCR rolling and Mario Galaxy spin attack all over again...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 21, 2011, 07:31:00 PM
The loftwing works fine as long as you keep these things in mind. Keeping a steady hand helps when flying. Use small turns of the wiimote and you should be able to steer easier rather then wide movements. If you are trying to accend then try to make sure you raise your wiimote at a steady pace and to level it out when you get enough highth. As for Sky diving I have only come across one other time that I have skydived but it is optional. I had to skydive from the sky onto an island below the clouds. Again small movements tend to work best as you freefall. I think maybe your gripe has to do with the short amount of time you had to react and get in the small circle at the start.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ax23000 on November 21, 2011, 07:47:24 PM
Does the loftwing ever not suck as a mode of transportation? I just finished catching the golden snitch at the Quidditch match winning the Loftwing "race", and I've found that thing a lot harder to control and steer than it feels like it really should (it didn't help that Zelda's endless tutorials kept getting in the way).
EDIT: Oh geez...skydiving controls even worse. It took me probably 8-9 times to get that sequence right, and every time I failed I had to page through the same Zelda dialogue. Ugh...
Why, Nintendo? Why did you have to shove motion control where it wasn't needed and where it didn't make the game any more immersive? The bird would have controlled fine with the analog stick, but at least that I can kind of understand why you mapped it to motion control. But there's nothing intuitive about how skydiving controls, and it would have been just fine with an analog stick. Sheesh, it's stuff like this that makes Nintendo hard to cheer for with 1st party software: putting motion control where it's not needed and actually makes the game worse just to have it there. It's DKCR rolling and Mario Galaxy spin attack all over again...
Both the skydiving and the Loftwing are straight out of Wii Sports Resort. Actually, they were two of my favorite events in that game...so I guess I'm a little biased in my answer to your question. That answer being that I find that the Loftwing is pretty easy to control once you get used to it. Actually, because of all the hours I logged with the plane in Resort I found it easy to control right away.
Just think of the remote as a toy plane and fly it the way you would pretend to fly planes when you were a kid. Bank the remote and the bird banks that way. Point down and the bird dives. Point up and the bird points up. The only tricky element is remembering that you have to 'flap' to gain altitude. Don't overdo the flapping. A few slow flaps is all it takes to climb pretty quickly. Actually, in general, don't over do any of the motions. Your bird will do exactly what your remote does, so if you're waving it wildly about your bird will fly wildly about. If you need precision, for example to jump on an island, don't be afraid to use the B button to brake.
Skydiving is definitely trickier, because it's incredibly precise and because you have to do the motion just so. I think they probably should have given a few more tips on how to move the remote for that one. That said, it actually works really well. As with much in Skyward Sword, practice makes perfect. I will totally agree that they should have skipped the dialog for when you messed up though...very annoying....and not very conductive to said practice.
As for being hard to cheer for Nintendo 1st party software, I'd argue that the sharp gameplay and design is a pretty compelling reason to cheer for Nintendo 1st party software. Not to mention the fantastic art design and music. Especially when you're talking about games as good as Galaxy, DKR, and Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 21, 2011, 08:05:46 PM
I loved the flying in Wii Sports Resort, I sunk a lot of time into the Island Flyover event and wish there was a mode to eliminate the 5 minute limit and just let me explore as long as I wish.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: gojira on November 21, 2011, 09:09:16 PM
Wow, I haven't seen aiming this sluggish since the last time I plugged in my Playstation Move. Why did Nintendo decide to only use MotionPlus for the aiming, when the Wii's most consistent strength has been the speed of its pointer control?
I'm also confused as to why Nintendo had to go with save points when you can save whenever you want in Xenoblade and previous Zelda games (though in those games, you were taken back to the beginning of the dungeon.
I felt the same way about the pointer controls with the menus. But with actual weapons it felt better. It's not terrible, but I just finished Twilight Princess a second time a couple of hours before playing Skyward Sword so it's definitely noticeable.
The other reason Nintendo may have decided to have specific save spots could be because of the glitches in Twilight Princess due to being able to save anywhere.
Also I definitely enjoy the little improvements over TP. The sprint button, being able to run up a wall a little bit. You can quickly crawl and climb. Even the standard vine climbing has been improved. I was curious how they would make the nunchuck work since it hasn't been improved. But moving the spin attack to both controllers freed up the shield thrust to be the only nunchuck motion move. And that made both moves a million times easier to pull off.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 21, 2011, 10:19:07 PM
I'm waiting for Ian to post his thoughts on this. As for me, 2 more days.....
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 21, 2011, 10:56:33 PM
I was curious how they would make the nunchuck work since it hasn't been improved. But moving the spin attack to both controllers freed up the shield thrust to be the only nunchuck motion move. And that made both moves a million times easier to pull off.
Yeah, no kidding. The shield bash actually works now when you waggle the nunchuck, something it only did 20% of the time in Twilight Princess, if even that often. I still keep my shield stowed when I don't immediately need it, though. I don't think weapon degradation has been a good thing in any game it has ever appeared in, and I'm not fond of dealing with it here with shields.
I'm quite a bit further in now, probably about half of the way through the first temple. I just got the beetle, a device that I've been fond of since it was initially shown off. Aside from a little floaty control, I think the motion controls actually work just fine with it as well. It helps, of course, that so far I haven't run into a section where I have to navigate it down very tight and twisty areas. I could definitely do without the silly timer on it, though.
I'm gradually starting to get a feel for the game, and it is growing on me. The way you have to approach the various enemies just clicks with me, particularly the way you have to deal with the giant enemy spiders (Skulltulas) before you get the aforementioned item (hit them sideways until they spin around, so you then thrust into their belly for massive damage). The sword combat doesn't work quite how it feels it's supposed to in places, though. There are times when I've definitely done a horizontal slash on one of those Deku plants with a horizontal mouth, and the game still registers the swing as the wrong type for no apparent reason. Thrusting seems more responsive than it was in Twilight Princess, though.
I really can't stand Fi, though. She has yet to say anything useful or interesting, and she talks probably more than Midna and Navi combined. Not to mention every time the game wants you to look at something, it keeps beeping the button until you acquiesce to its demands. That gets incredibly annoying.
On a sidenote, it is nice to have a reason to collect rupees for once in a Zelda game. Partway through the forest area, I used a save point to jump back to Skytown. It feels really gimmicky that you have to ring a bell on Beetle's shop with the slingshot to get to it, but it's not terribly annoying. I ended buying the bug net and my first wallet extension.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 21, 2011, 11:05:30 PM
You could use the Beetle too to ring the bell as well.I have all of the wallet upgrades right now and I haven't even made it into the 2nd dungeon. I went and upgraded my iron shield to the second level.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 21, 2011, 11:34:29 PM
Wow, that first boss was hard (and tiring), but once I figure out the trick to his second phase and to use my shield to block his dash move, he was doable. It took my fairie and my lone life potion to do it, though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 21, 2011, 11:41:50 PM
So I asked this over at Pixlbit, but didn't get a complete answer.
This is now the earliest Zelda game, set before Ocarina of Time. Where does Minish cap fit? I thought that was the origin of his green hat.
There's some video about the split timeline theory on YouTube that berates people for thinking that. The timeline as a whole is mostly conjecture since Nintendo won't put out an official one; however, he does make a few good points that work in retrospect.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on November 21, 2011, 11:46:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO1QBTG6EXs
the costume designer is on my deviant watch list, and its too bad they didn't use her because she looks just like Zelda.
http://theprincesszelda.deviantart.com/gallery/
edit: nevermind. I watch several Zelda Cosplayers.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 22, 2011, 12:16:27 AM
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2g65jL3HDg) was actually the one I was referring to. Try to ignore the pretentiousness at the very beginning and throughout.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NeoStar9X on November 22, 2011, 01:22:45 AM
I think I've finally gotten a handle on the flying. Enough that landing on the small islands is now doable. So far I've been loving the game. Controls are fine. Sometimes I have to remind myself to slow down as to make sure my movements are read correctly. When I turned off the game tonight I was 8 hours and 22 minutes into the game. Currently at the second temple entrance. Actually just entered it before I turned it off. Been taking breaks to run around Skyloft and flying. The world itself as a dungeon is very true and it's even more clear leading up to the second dungeon I believe.
This game certainly will take a while to beat. I love it. :)
I do now know due to looking back,and seeing the Sheikah Stone entry on the first boss fight I made that fight a lot harder on myself. Ugh.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 22, 2011, 02:11:09 AM
Well, I'm planting my flag at the start of the second, volcanic region after doing some sidequests in Skyloft and earning enough money to buy an iron shield; all the wallet extensions; and upgrade my old wooden one to the 2nd tier. *sigh* I could really do without grinding being added to the Zelda experience through these weapon/shield upgrades, since the drop rate seems to be so ridiculously low. I have to admit, the scene that happens when you go for the Heart Piece in the Pumpkin Juice bar was hilarious. :D
One thing I didn't bring up earlier, though, was what seems to be the reoccurring evil character. Honestly, I don't like him as a villain so far. He just seems to be Nintendo's attempt to create a character even weirder than Tingle...and that's it. I know what that sounds like, but I see this "weird, vaguely-homosexual" crap in anime all the time, and it just gets tiresome because the joke is often the beginning and end to the character. *sigh* I just see Fox News jumping all over this and blowing it out of context, as usual with their VG news. I'll see how I like him as a villain as the game goes on.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 22, 2011, 02:53:38 AM
On a side note, I'm listening to the 25th Anniversary Symphony CD that came with Skyward Sword, and it's an excellent CD. Comparing it with the actual set list from the concert (http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2011/10/zelda-25th-anniversary-concerts-full-set-list/), we're definitely missing 8 tracks: Hyrule Castle, Princess Zelda's Theme, Ocarina Medley Suite, Boss Battle Medley, Ganondorf's Theme, The LoZ Selected Shorts Suite, Hyrule Field from Ocarina, and Grandma's Theme from Wind Waker.
I kind of miss the Ocarina Medley, though Gerudo Valley and Kakariko Village are on the CD so I don't think we're missing much there (except for the Final Ganon boss theme, which is a favorite track of mine). All things considered, I think we probably got for free the best songs from the concert, and that's pretty ok by me. If I want to hear the rest, I'll find the tracks online or catch the concert in person if it arrives here in Orlando.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 22, 2011, 03:04:33 AM
Six and half hours in and I haven't made it past the first temple yet.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 22, 2011, 08:59:41 AM
One thing I didn't bring up earlier, though, was what seems to be the reoccurring evil character. Honestly, I don't like him as a villain so far. He just seems to be Nintendo's attempt to create a character even weirder than Tingle...and that's it. I know what that sounds like, but I see this "weird, vaguely-homosexual" crap in anime all the time, and it just gets tiresome because the joke is often the beginning and end to the character.
I haven't started the first dungeon yet since I've been trying to finish the Super Mario 3D Land (currently on Special 7-Castle). From what I have played, Skyward Sword is full of anime clichés. The spunky female friend who is clearly romantically interested but would rather play coy (so much blatant sexual tension). She's a total cock tease, teetering on the friend zone line. In fact, everyone knows that girl in real life. The hyper-arrogant, hulking macho bully and rival interested in said friend. His bumbling followers. The dumb coward who can't do anything right. Even Link is a stock anime stand-in: the dutiful hero unaware of the lead female's obvious attraction. Link doesn't represent the player anymore because he is a character with a personality. A boring one but one nonetheless.
Wait, weren't you boycotting this game? Or did you buy it used already?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 22, 2011, 09:06:23 AM
One thing I didn't bring up earlier, though, was what seems to be the reoccurring evil character. Honestly, I don't like him as a villain so far. He just seems to be Nintendo's attempt to create a character even weirder than Tingle...and that's it. I know what that sounds like, but I see this "weird, vaguely-homosexual" crap in anime all the time, and it just gets tiresome because the joke is often the beginning and end to the character.
I haven't started the first dungeon yet since I've been trying to finish the Super Mario 3D Land (currently on Special 7-Castle). From what I have played, Skyward Sword is full of anime clichés. The spunky female friend who is clearly romantically interested but would rather play coy (so much blatant sexual tension). She's a total cock tease, teetering on the friend zone line. In fact, everyone knows that girl in real life. The hyper-arrogant, hulking macho bully and rival interested in said friend. His bumbling followers. The dumb coward who can't do anything right. Even Link is a stock anime stand-in: the dutiful hero unaware of the lead female's obvious attraction. Link doesn't represent the player anymore because he is a character with a personality. A boring one but one nonetheless.
Wait, weren't you boycotting this game? Or did you buy it used already?
He Caved. Justified it by using Trade-in credit.
On the point about the characters the game seems to be Skyloft and Rest of Game. What happens in Skyloft Stays in Skyloft.
Anyway, So I'm stuck in the Fire temple at the first Ball Part. I've got the one side button but I can't figure out how to get my ball to the other side. I'm sure its something easy.
Though I have to say the linearity of this game is sort of getting to me a bit at the moment.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: silverwings01 on November 22, 2011, 09:37:35 AM
Anyway, So I'm stuck in the Fire temple at the first Ball Part. I've got the one side button but I can't figure out how to get my ball to the other side. I'm sure its something easy.
Hint: There is a bombable wall on that side next to the pillars. I got stuck there, too, and it took me forever to figure it out.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 22, 2011, 09:39:42 AM
Anyway, So I'm stuck in the Fire temple at the first Ball Part. I've got the one side button but I can't figure out how to get my ball to the other side. I'm sure its something easy.
Hint: There is a bombable wall on that side next to the pillars. I got stuck there, too, and it took me forever to figure it out.
That's what I figured and I sent Murry, my beatle, around to take a look there but I didn't see anything. I ran out of time this morning but I was going to go with the old stand in of bomb everything and see what takes after I got home.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TheFleece on November 22, 2011, 09:53:47 AM
I picked this up Saturday (bless that Nintendo World Store!) and I've basically been doing nothing but playing since, except when I had to work. I really like the game, but this is my first time using Motion Plus and I had a hard time getting things done at first, but I'm getting the hang of things now. I haven't had much trouble with the puzzles or flying and I'm about the enter the second dungeon. One thing that irks me is that there are so many characters in Skyloft and there are no labels for them on the map. You can put markers down but if you're looking for someone you have to know who and where they are. After running around talking to characters on the surface world and then returning to Skyloft it's like nothing's changed there and I have to reacquaint myself with everyone there. It kind of feels like two different games smashed into one. My problem was that I didn't zoom in on the map. Never mind.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 22, 2011, 12:01:48 PM
Just got the bomb bag Gonna explore the sky to see if I can use these bombs to find anything in the sky or in past worlds. Also something pretty nice that I found out. If you sit in a chair you will actually heal you wounds. I also like how when you are in the Bazaar the music changes depending on where you are in the room.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 22, 2011, 12:03:21 PM
I didn't know the Chair thing. Welp right this second we're at the same place Maxi.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on November 22, 2011, 12:07:01 PM
I don’t know how you guys are flying through this so quickly. I’m maybe ½ way through the 1st dungeon.
I haven’t had problems with dispatching the Skulltulas (or most of the enemies in general, for that matter). While I don’t think the Wii motion plus controls are perfect, they are effective enough to make sword fighting very satisfying. I’ve had a big ****-eating grin on my face most of the time playing the game, and so far I haven’t minded the scavenger hunt quests I’ve encountered, but I imagine they would be more tedious during repeat playthroughs when I’m less concerned about exploring this new world.
My only issues have involved how long it’s taken me to solve somewhat simple puzzles, and I think that’s more a reflection of how long it’s been since I’ve played a Zelda game that I haven’t beaten 10 times over. It kind of reminds me of playing a new WOW expansion right when it comes out. Having to figure everything out without the use of guides or questhelper. This helps with the immersion but completely slows down my progress.
For WOW, this always aggravated me because most quests were “kill W amount of X and bring back Y to Z”, but for this it makes it much more satisfying/frustrating when I solve it depending on how simple the solution was and how long I spent trying to solve it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 22, 2011, 12:32:31 PM
Did anyone else actually get stumped in the first 2 temples? I must have wondered around for an hour in the 2nd temple trying to figure out how to get to the other side of one room. I love when that happens!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 22, 2011, 12:41:15 PM
Did anyone else actually get stumped in the first 2 temples? I must have wondered around for an hour in the 2nd temple trying to figure out how to get to the other side of one room. I love when that happens!
Yes.
lolmonade, I have over 13 hours on my save last I checked and since I played at least an hour yesterday its probably at least 14.. Though I'm betting its actually 20 hr. On the WOW expansions I thought Cataclysm questing through the first part was a lot better with the QoL improvements. Its the only one where I've had a character that has done all the new progression quests (80-85+) Skulltulas are still the only enemy I've had a real problem with. The Stalfos was a joke and a half.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Nbz on November 22, 2011, 01:28:21 PM
So I've now put around 17 hours into the game and have beaten the first 3 temples. Most of my opinions on the motion control remain the same. It works excellently and becomes SO MUCH easier to use once you've had more time with it and really figured out how and when to time your sword swings on enemies. I actually found that the bosses became progressively easier as I went through the three dungeons. I died 3 times on Ghirahim, almost died on the second boss and dispatched the third boss losing only 1 heart in the process. This may be due to the boss fights getting progressively easier, but I think a lot of it has to do with my improved experience with the motion controls.
The formula of the game is very simple at the outset and seems to be pretty consistent for the first 3 areas:
1. Enter area and explore 2. Get new item that helps you explore 3. Get assigned a task by an NPC (either find x number of something, or activate x number of something) 4. Complete this task and open access to the temple 5. Go through temple and beat boss
Though you would probably think this would get repetitive, it comes nowhere close to the monotony of collecting tears of light in Twilight Princess. Moreover, these areas are for the most part very fun to explore and extremely easy to navigate once you push logs/blocks to enable shortcuts and streamline the exploration for later in the game. I did end up getting frustrated at some points in the second area, where it was not clear cut what I had to do, and thus I ended up wandering round like a headless chicken before consulting a guide. There is also one part of the second dungeon that will have most people ripping their hair out, not knowing what to do, and I can see from reading the thread that some people have already encountered that. All that considered though, I think that by creating very focused and dense areas, the team at Nintendo have been able to (for the most part) eliminate aimless wandering.
Another point that I want to focus on are the save points. Though I was not a huge advocate of these to begin with, as the game went on I found out how useful they really are. A lot of the time I will be in an area and will need a potion refilled or my wallet will be full of rupees. In any other Zelda game, you would have to trawl back to the nearest town to resolve both of these problems, but that issue is completely eliminated in Skyward Sword thanks to the bird statues. It is very easy to travel back to Skyloft, pick up a few upgrades, and then simply drop back to the place where you were, without any of your progress being lost. Moreover, by having save statues in dungeons you can finally have no qualms about stopping half way through one. The only thing that will change is that the major enemies will respawn when you restart, but you will start back at the exact place that you left off from. Even if you want to go outside during a dungeon, the interior acts a lot like the external environments, due to the fact that you will be creating shortcuts to access areas more easily as you progress. Things like this really streamline the process and make Skyward Sword feel like the most accessible Zelda to date.
Something that I'm really pleased with is the consistent need to use every item in your inventory. Besides the slingshot, every single item that I have picked up so far has been used frequently in every area. The best of these is the multi purpose beetle, which is nothing short of genius in design. It can be used to: Scout the area and find enemies, stun aforementioned enemies by ramming into them, collect rupees and hearts with ease, hit switches that are otherwise inaccessible, carry and drop bombs and even hit Beedle's shop bell. If ever there was a multi functioning item in Zelda, the beetle is quite clearly it. The bombs are also used much more frequently, with a focus on bowling/throwing them as opposed to simply placing them on the ground.
I don't want to get into too many specifics on the third area, as not too many people here have reached that point yet, but what I will say is that the temple is quite astounding. The overarching mechanic of the area is extremely cool and it is so well implemented into the dungeon that it really shakes up the puzzle solving completely. This is also the area where enemies will start to punish you for poor sword play, so I was glad that I had a solid handle on motion plus by this point, otherwise I would have struggled to stay alive. I'm pretty sure the game will start to change up its focus now that I'm passed the stereotypical first section of a Zelda game (which normally comprises of the first three dungeons in the 3D games).
So far so good. Let's see what the next half of the game has in store. I'm sure there will be surprises aplenty!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 22, 2011, 01:36:17 PM
Did anyone else actually get stumped in the first 2 temples? I must have wondered around for an hour in the 2nd temple trying to figure out how to get to the other side of one room. I love when that happens!
I kinda had that in the first dungeon but that had more to do with getting the item in the dungeon. I am actually having more trouble getting into the dungeon then the dungeon so far.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 22, 2011, 01:36:53 PM
... (which normally comprises of the first three dungeons in the 3D games). ...
Link to the Past started that president. Which I'm not very fond of personally.
Oh snap, completely forgot about Alttp. But yeah, the formula is slightly tired at this point, only Majora's mask really strayed from it.
Anyone whose read me over the years should see this coming but, I would like to go back more to the Original LoZ model.
Take this game for example. There is a story device who sole purpose to being really is to limit where you can land to begin with. I think this game would be more interesting if they let you land in any of the area to start out. Allowing more organic exploration. Fi would still be there to point you in the preferred path but, with no modification whatsoever you simply couldn't make significant progress without key items in the Outer-Dungeons.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 22, 2011, 03:39:11 PM
Just finished up the second dungeon.I like the way you move around in the dungeon.The puzzles weren't that tough if you kept an eye out for certain things. I also got a lot of money in the area. I currently have 894 rupies. I am probably going to save them up till I have max rupies.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 22, 2011, 04:01:45 PM
Just finished up the second dungeon.I like the way you move around in the dungeon.The puzzles weren't that tough if you kept an eye out for certain things. I also got a lot of money in the area. I currently have 894 rupies. I am probably going to save them up till I have max rupies.
I used mine on the Life Medal. Didn't do what I wanted it to but, still handy. Not sure what the Treasure one does. I think I've gotten less Rupees since getting it...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: silverwings01 on November 22, 2011, 05:11:47 PM
I used mine on the Life Medal. Didn't do what I wanted it to but, still handy. Not sure what the Treasure one does. I think I've gotten less Rupees since getting it...
The treasure medal increases the rate for monster bit/item drops ("treasure") that you can use to upgrade your weapons.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 22, 2011, 06:01:48 PM
I used mine on the Life Medal. Didn't do what I wanted it to but, still handy. Not sure what the Treasure one does. I think I've gotten less Rupees since getting it...
The treasure medal increases the rate for monster bit/item drops ("treasure") that you can use to upgrade your weapons.
Mental note: I need to make it a priority to pick that thing up as soon as I have the funds for it, because the drop rate on those items is ridiculously low. I had to grind just to get enough materials to upgrade my wooden shield, and it looks like now that was a waste of time because the Iron Shield is better anyway.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 22, 2011, 06:30:17 PM
I used mine on the Life Medal. Didn't do what I wanted it to but, still handy. Not sure what the Treasure one does. I think I've gotten less Rupees since getting it...
The treasure medal increases the rate for monster bit/item drops ("treasure") that you can use to upgrade your weapons.
Mental note: I need to make it a priority to pick that thing up as soon as I have the funds for it, because the drop rate on those items is ridiculously low. I had to grind just to get enough materials to upgrade my wooden shield, and it looks like now that was a waste of time because the Iron Shield is better anyway.
I wouldn't say that it was a waste of time. The Iron Shield does have a weakness to electricity so in that regard the wooden shield would be better.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 22, 2011, 06:58:57 PM
I used mine on the Life Medal. Didn't do what I wanted it to but, still handy. Not sure what the Treasure one does. I think I've gotten less Rupees since getting it...
The treasure medal increases the rate for monster bit/item drops ("treasure") that you can use to upgrade your weapons.
Mental note: I need to make it a priority to pick that thing up as soon as I have the funds for it, because the drop rate on those items is ridiculously low. I had to grind just to get enough materials to upgrade my wooden shield, and it looks like now that was a waste of time because the Iron Shield is better anyway.
I wouldn't say that it was a waste of time. The Iron Shield does have a weakness to electricity so in that regard the wooden shield would be better.
Ah, good to know that wasn't just a throwaway line from the merchant.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 22, 2011, 07:12:40 PM
I don't want to get into too many specifics on the third area, as not too many people here have reached that point yet, but what I will say is that the temple is quite astounding. The overarching mechanic of the area is extremely cool and it is so well implemented into the dungeon that it really shakes up the puzzle solving completely. This is also the area where enemies will start to punish you for poor sword play, so I was glad that I had a solid handle on motion plus by this point, otherwise I would have struggled to stay alive. I'm pretty sure the game will start to change up its focus now that I'm passed the stereotypical first section of a Zelda game (which normally comprises of the first three dungeons in the 3D games).
I couldn't agree more. I'm near enough exactly where you are, having conquered the third temple this morning. I'd say that the whole third area, not just the dungeon, features some of the smartest puzzle design I've seen in the entire Zelda series. As you said, I won't discuss specifics, because it's something that everybody deserves to discover on their own, but... wow. The signature mechanic is very original, and used in such clever ways.
While playing through this region, the game was hitting all the right notes for me. The setting was cool, the items new and interesting, the art style was at its pinnacle and the music changed constantly as the environment changed. I was on a real high after today's play session.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: silverwings01 on November 22, 2011, 08:08:59 PM
I used mine on the Life Medal. Didn't do what I wanted it to but, still handy. Not sure what the Treasure one does. I think I've gotten less Rupees since getting it...
The treasure medal increases the rate for monster bit/item drops ("treasure") that you can use to upgrade your weapons.
Mental note: I need to make it a priority to pick that thing up as soon as I have the funds for it, because the drop rate on those items is ridiculously low. I had to grind just to get enough materials to upgrade my wooden shield, and it looks like now that was a waste of time because the Iron Shield is better anyway.
Not true. :) There are areas later on where you'll want to have the Wooden Shield instead (least that's how I felt).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 22, 2011, 09:08:08 PM
Just finished up the 3rd area and got prepared for the 3rd dungeon. I decided to upgrade my wooden shield fully. I don't think there is going to be any fire enemies in the dungeon so I should be fine.
Oh how do you get the Treasure Medal to show up at Beedles? Do you have to buy the Life Medal?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: silverwings01 on November 22, 2011, 09:47:57 PM
Just finished up the 3rd area and got prepared for the 3rd dungeon. I decided to upgrade my wooden shield fully. I don't think there is going to be any fire enemies in the dungeon so I should be fine.
Oh how do you get the Treasure Medal to show up at Beedles? Do you have to buy the Life Medal?
That I don't know. I got mine from a Goddess Chest.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 22, 2011, 10:38:28 PM
I'm taking a small break before entering the 2nd dungeon to do some backtracking, open some newly-unlocked Goddess chests, and see what secrets I can find using my new digging mitts in the Forest and Skyloft.
By the way, is it just me or are the mole/badger people in the Volcanic area the same ones from Oracle of Seasons (the ones who give you the magnet gloves)? I could be mistaken, but I think that may very well be the first time Nintendo's officially referenced the Oracle games.
EDIT: I am getting really sick of Nintendo using dowsing as a crutch to artificially extend gameplay by having the player perform scavenger hunts. It wouldn't even be so bad if the game wasn't constantly playing that ringing sound until you used it like the ASE in The Conduit.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 22, 2011, 11:30:42 PM
Just finished up the 3rd area and got prepared for the 3rd dungeon. I decided to upgrade my wooden shield fully. I don't think there is going to be any fire enemies in the dungeon so I should be fine.
Oh how do you get the Treasure Medal to show up at Beedles? Do you have to buy the Life Medal?
Just finished up the 3rd area and got prepared for the 3rd dungeon. I decided to upgrade my wooden shield fully. I don't think there is going to be any fire enemies in the dungeon so I should be fine.
Oh how do you get the Treasure Medal to show up at Beedles? Do you have to buy the Life Medal?
Treasure is a Goddess cube reward and you have to buy the Lofe one from Beedle.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 01:11:21 AM
Well, the second boss was ridiculously easy compared to the first one. It didn't follow the Nintendo Rule of Three, but it still had a pretty obvious pattern to it and the means to defeating it was obvious. Still, it was a memorable fight the way the arena was laid out. If there was a heart piece in that dungeon, though, like there was in the first dungeon, I missed it. I can't think of where it could have been hiding, though. The dungeon overall was pretty straightforward, though I had to consult the map at one point to find the way forward.
I also found the Treasure medal in a Goddess chest up in the Sky World, which has noticeably increased the number of drops I've found. Useful. It's a pity that you have so few slots for holding these items.
EDIT: Unfortunately, as much as I am enjoying this game, the sheer amount of redundant text you have to page through is ridiculous, even by Zelda standards. EVERY time I grab a new inventory item on a fresh boot, up comes the informational text. The same for rupees, shop keepers, etc. It really gets annoying really quickly. I'll never understand why Nintendo has made Zelda such a series based on puzzles, and yet continually treats the player like an idiot.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 23, 2011, 01:14:36 AM
WOOT!!! JB HiFi are giving out the preorders a day early in Oz. Going in to pick it up in half an hour.
And I even have a free night tonight. Awesomeness will ensue.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 23, 2011, 02:24:41 AM
Those giant spiders SUCK. The flying scarab helps.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 02:30:24 AM
Anyone else finding the sky overworld to be lame and almost completely pointless? It's so empty, with only a couple of islands you can actually interact with (so far). Most of the floating landmasses are just giant boulders or hollow boulders you can zip through for extra speed. Any islands worth exploring have Goddess Chests on them that you can't do anything with until you unlock them, and when you do that the game marks them on your map anyway. So there's almost no point whatsoever in exploring the sky overworld, because there's nothing to find until the game gives you permission to do anything on those islands.
It's a real shame and a missed opportunity so far, because my first thought when I heard Nintendo was going to do this was Skies of Arcadia when you explored with your airship. This is such a pale imitation of that so far.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 23, 2011, 09:17:46 AM
I'm through the second dungeon. I'm also part way through the next area but the most exciting thing is.... I collected my first Starbit! Murry has gotten 2 upgrades and he's getting a third one tonight once I find what I believe will be 2 easy to find items. I had to go back to the woods with him to get 2 of an item I needed to upgrade him. My Wooden Shield. Fully Upgraded. Beyond just being more durable as in a bigger meter I also think its taking less damage per hit. I'm going to have to test that. My Metal Shield. Will be Fully Upgraded once I get home and a few more Rupees. Bought another Wallet upgrade taking me to 1,200 Rupee limit but considering Beedle has a 1,600 Rupee item I'm assuming there is another upgrade to get even though he's out stock on them... Got another Adventure pack slot so now I can carry both my shields.
I plan on just messing around Skyloft trying to get Starbits tonight. I've had some text from Skyloftians who indicate one of the islands I can get to might actually have something to do. Also I think that there are at least 3 denizens of Skyloft cuter then Zelda. Anyway Zelda keeps running away from me...
Also in the third area whats the point of Dowsing when its a linear path forward. Click C to stop beeping run on. I wish there was some more customization you could do to stop telling me about stuff I've picked up before. Also to shorten shop Preamble. My interface is in Pro that should cut the redundant text down.
While I'm ranting. If you are going to put dowsing in the game why don't you let me dowse for specific bugs and Monster Parts?
Those giant spiders SUCK. The flying scarab helps.
Yes, Yes they do. Still the hardest enemy I have encountered in the GAME so far.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 09:43:45 AM
Gonna start the 3rd dungeon in a little bit. Ceric; Beedle doesn't sell any more wallet upgrades but there is way to get bigger wallets. Getting the starbit er Graditude Crystals will upgrade your wallet if you get enough.I actually need to work on getting more of them. I think I only have 3 right now.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 23, 2011, 10:13:47 AM
Gonna start the 3rd dungeon in a little bit. Ceric; Beedle doesn't sell any more wallet upgrades but there is way to get bigger wallets. Getting the starbit er Graditude Crystals will upgrade your wallet if you get enough.I actually need to work on getting more of them. I think I only have 3 right now.
That's what I'll probably do tonight since my Son is coming home. Though my house is a wreck.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 23, 2011, 01:12:22 PM
I realized how convenient everything is. Anyone who doesn't like switching items during actual game play is a looser!
That 3rd dungeon got me good a few times. Get through one door and another huge room was waiting over and over. Loved it! How awesome is it you don't walk into every room and instantly know what has to be done?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 23, 2011, 01:27:29 PM
I don't think the switching bad until I accidentally bring up the b menu while using a bomb. >< I wish I could switch between items using the left and righ d-pad buttons as well since there not used for anything. Probably be for the instrument later.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 01:34:17 PM
My only problem with the item switching is that the while you use the B button to bring an item out, you don't also use that button to use the item like you did in Twilight Princess. In fact, pressing B again just puts the item away. I've had a lot of trouble getting used to using the A button to use items, but not using the A button to put them away and so on. Other than that, that feature works fine.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 01:36:26 PM
I realized how convenient everything is. Anyone who doesn't like switching items during actual game play is a looser!
That 3rd dungeon got me good a few times. Get through one door and another huge room was waiting over and over. Loved it! How awesome is it you don't walk into every room and instantly know what has to be done?
I am having that feeling in the 3rd dungeon. I got the item in the dungeon and it i pretty fun to use to stun enemies but I am kinda stuck right now. There is 2 rooms right now that I am having trouble with.I also the music in the dungeon. Mainly the one where everything is not working.It is tense and could make you crazy if you listen to it and were actually stuck inside the dungeon in real life.
As for the item switching I don't mind it. Depending on if you tap the button or if you hold B will determine if you bring up your item pouch or bring out the item you have equiped.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 23, 2011, 01:44:10 PM
Am I the only one who really wish they could have an item by now that would actually kill things at range effectively? Maybe if I keep upgrading Murry...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 01:45:24 PM
Am I the only one who really wish they could have an item by now that would actually kill things at range effectively? Maybe if I keep upgrading Murry...
Murry scoffs at your puny human efforts to handle such infantile foes! Bwahahahahahah! ;)
Wait...wrong Murray. :cool;
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 02:04:08 PM
Am I the only one who really wish they could have an item by now that would actually kill things at range effectively? Maybe if I keep upgrading Murry...
The beetle can be good for long range enemies but it kinda depends on what monster you are fighting.
Anyway I made it through one of the rooms but I am stuck in another room. I managed to get the map so that might help a little.Hmm I just checked my map and it solved the problem I had.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 23, 2011, 02:49:09 PM
The sword robot's advice for fighting the big bad in the first temple made no sense. See which way his right hand is going and do the opposite? What?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 02:55:15 PM
The sword robot's advice for fighting the big bad in the first temple made no sense. See which way his right hand is going and do the opposite? What?
Upon reflection, that advice does make sense but it's worded badly. In other words, if he raises his hand so to you its in the upper left in response to YOU moving your sword right, swing your sword around to the left and swipe right to hit his hand.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 03:52:07 PM
Just finished the 3rd dungeon. I also went around and got some Gratitude Crystals. I managed to get 30. So I have the Big Wallet.So by itself it can carry 1,000 rupies. I can carry 1,900 right now.I have 920 right now.
Gonna explore more of the skyword and see if I can get some things to upgrade the hook beetle.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 23, 2011, 04:23:54 PM
Just finished the 3rd dungeon. I also went around and got some Gratitude Crystals. I managed to get 30. So I have the Big Wallet.So by itself it can carry 1,000 rupies. I can carry 1,900 right now.I have 920 right now.
Gonna explore more of the skyword and see if I can get some things to upgrade the hook beetle.
If you need the Hornet Larvae, what I was missing, the best place to drop into Forlorn Woods is the Observation Deck or was it the Outpost... Its right before you start doing tight ropes just go towards the first temple there and the hornet nest are right there. Just pop into the air and come back till you have all you need.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 23, 2011, 05:08:39 PM
So, is Groose Gannon's ancestor?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 23, 2011, 05:16:08 PM
So is this game Nintendo's way of explaining why those weird bird symbols are plastered over every inch of every zelda game?
So what does Ian think? He chime in yet?
He doesn't have it yet. He said in the hunt topic that he usually gets his Birthday present with his Christmas presents.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on November 23, 2011, 09:43:59 PM
an hour in and I'm really embarrassed for anyone that worked on this. There is no game yet, only terrible writing. I can't think of a more boring hour of gaming i've ever experienced.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 10:34:32 PM
an hour in and I'm really embarrassed for anyone that worked on this. There is no game yet, only terrible writing. I can't think of a more boring hour of gaming i've ever experienced.
Just stick it out because it does get a lot better, about the time you enter the first real dungeon IMO. I don't know what Nintendo has against one of their games not starting terribly, though at least this isn't anywhere near as bad as Twilight Princess' opening (though that's an achievement no game is likely to ever surpass).
I'm currently working my way through the 3rd main area, and honestly I don't like it very much. The gimmick with the crystals is fine and interesting and the level design is good, but I just detest deserts by their very nature. It's a lot of running through sand and seeing nothing but brown as far as the eye can see.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on November 23, 2011, 10:49:06 PM
Is it just me or does the begining of Skyward Sword have a Chrono Trigger vibe?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 10:51:16 PM
Is it just me or does the begining of Skyward Sword have a Chrono Trigger vibe?
Don't even begin to insult Chrono Trigger by comparing its wonderful first hour to Skyward Sword's abysmal barrage of tutorials, cutscenes, and text skipping. Seriously, that's sacrilege.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 23, 2011, 10:54:45 PM
Broodwars this was the first desert that truly did it for me! The crystal thing is what I love about it. The temple really won me over as well.
One thing I liked about the few places I have been so far is that things are a bit more whimsical than TP.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 10:58:48 PM
Broodwars this was the first desert that truly did it for me! The crystal thing is what I love about it. The temple really won me over as well.
One thing I liked about the few places I have been so far is that things are a bit more whimsical than TP.
That has to do with the art style actually. If you had this art style with the tone of TP then it would be a mismatch. Things are somewhere in between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess much like the art style for the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 10:59:21 PM
Broodwars this was the first desert that truly did it for me! The crystal thing is what I love about it. The temple really won me over as well.
One thing I liked about the few places I have been so far is that things are a bit more whimsical than TP.
It's nothing against the game, just that I grew up in Utah and SLC is full of sand, rock, and barren earth. It's a wonder of human ingenuity and diligence that my ancestors ever managed to turn that barren pit into a viable human settlement. The nearby natural areas of interest are all dedicated to various collections of rocks (Arch's National Park and Goblin Valley). I've seen all the desert I ever want to see for the rest of my life.
I seem to be a bit stuck at the moment trying to find the last power generator that will let me access the nearby temple. I already have the Lightning and Fire symbols lit up. Just trying to find the Cloud symbol...
Oh well, back to Skyloft to see if there's any new sidequests at night. Incidentally, do you eventually get the ability to fly at night? Because there's an island in the Sky with a sign from Beetle saying he's there at night, so you have to figure the game will eventually let you fly whenever.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 23, 2011, 11:09:54 PM
Don't believe you ever do but, clever use of the bed mechanic can fix that. Where do you get quests in Skyloft? I think I'm doing it wrong because I have never gotten any Rupee rewards.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 23, 2011, 11:13:11 PM
Don't believe you ever do but, clever use of the bed mechanic can fix that. Where do you get quests in Skyloft? I think I'm doing it wrong because I have never gotten any Rupee rewards.
You don't get Rupee rewards for completing the quests, as far as I've seen. You get "Gratitude Crystals", which do look exactly like the starbits from the Mario Galaxy games. You bring those to another NPC who lives underneath the city, and your receive rewards (including wallet upgrades). The quests are scattered around Skyloft depending on the time of day. You'll know a character has one when you see them because they'll have a little thought bubble floating out of their head.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 11:20:24 PM
Broodwars this was the first desert that truly did it for me! The crystal thing is what I love about it. The temple really won me over as well.
One thing I liked about the few places I have been so far is that things are a bit more whimsical than TP.
It's nothing against the game, just that I grew up in Utah and SLC is full of sand, rock, and barren earth. It's a wonder of human ingenuity and diligence that my ancestors ever managed to turn that barren pit into a viable human settlement. The nearby natural areas of interest are all dedicated to various collections of rocks (Arch's National Park and Goblin Valley). I've seen all the desert I ever want to see for the rest of my life.
I seem to be a bit stuck at the moment trying to find the last power generator that will let me access the nearby temple. I already have the Lightning and Fire symbols lit up. Just trying to find the Cloud symbol...
Oh well, back to Skyloft to see if there's any new sidequests at night. Incidentally, do you eventually get the ability to fly at night? Because there's an island in the Sky with a sign from Beetle saying he's there at night, so you have to figure the game will eventually let you fly whenever.
The cloud one is kinda hard to find but keep an eye out for basket statues. I usually scout a new area with the beetle so I can see what I might be able to do.
As for getting to Beedle's island well look around in Beedle's ship. I haven't been able to fly at night so far but I am only just past the 3rd dungeon.
To add on to what Broodwars said. The way you get down to the guy who upgrades your wallet is through the graveyard.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on November 23, 2011, 11:23:03 PM
Is it just me or does the begining of Skyward Sword have a Chrono Trigger vibe?
How do you mean?
I played a part of the begining at a friend's house and I got a Chrono Trigger vibe when looking at the art style and Zelda dissapearing during the start of the story.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 23, 2011, 11:28:27 PM
Is it just me or does the begining of Skyward Sword have a Chrono Trigger vibe?
How do you mean?
I played a part of the begining at a friend's house and I got a Chrono Trigger vibe when looking at the art style and Zelda dissapearing during the start of the story.
Yeah that is pretty reasonable vibe to get in that regard. Then again you can relate that to alot of games.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 24, 2011, 12:24:27 AM
So after some delays I've finally had a change to play Skyward Sword. Just spent 16 hours playing in the last day and finally stopped after the 3rd temple and I must the third temple is the greatest Zelda dungeon EVER. Holy sh!t that was just amazing.
Now the first two dungeons were great but the third dungeon is just on another level. Whoever designed that deserves a raise because that wow, just one intense ride the entire way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 24, 2011, 01:55:52 AM
So after some delays I've finally had a change to play Skyward Sword. Just spent 16 hours playing in the last day and finally stopped after the 3rd temple and I must the third temple is the greatest Zelda dungeon EVER. Holy sh!t that was just amazing.
Now the first two dungeons were great but the third dungeon is just on another level. Whoever designed that deserves a raise because that wow, just one intense ride the entire way.
I just completed the dungeon, myself. I don't know if I'd call it the "greatest dungeon EVER", but it was a very good (and very long) one. It reminded me a lot of typical Zelda water temples in its concept of accomplishing tasks after lowering levels of terrain, as well as what a certain dungeon tried to do in the last console Zelda game. The boss was very easy (I'm starting to think that first boss fight was just a fluke in difficulty), but at least it was entertaining and it only used the dungeon's new item sparingly. Speaking of which, I know some windmills back in Skyloft that could use a little air...
Looking at my inventory, I must be about halfway through the game, which makes me a little sad because that must mean there's only about 4 or so dungeons left in the game. Still, I got another new key item in a cutscene that should add to the exploration. I also fully-upgraded my Beetle and my Slingshot carrying capacity before I left for that dungeon.
EDIT: Ugh...and after a pretty epic (and fairly reminiscent of Spirited Away) fight, now the game's sending me on a series of tedious fetch quests to unlock what should be my next location. Oh joy. At least I happened to have an Ancient Flower on me already, so I managed to skip part of this tedious B.S. And oh joy, the ever-lovable game time-extending dowsing is important again! Because it's been so much fun the entire game! ::)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 24, 2011, 07:14:18 AM
Since everyone is having a hard time getting to Beedles at night. I'll tell you how.
Go into Beedle's shop. Run until you hit the far wall. You'll see what looks to be a carpet. Use A on it and you'll notice its a bed. At that point just Sleep till Night and Beedle will take you to his island.
The Lumpy Pumpkin same deal. You find Pump and Kinn's beds over to the right of Pump. Now you can sleep there at night. Did anyone else find the Fun wheel in the desert and couldn't interact with it? I had that problem I'm guessing I need the new Item.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 24, 2011, 10:32:13 AM
Time for a progress report. I'm 20 hours deep, saved in the first room of the 4th dungeon.
Some advice: I view the dowsing mechanic largely as a crutch, a thing that somewhat discourages exploration. As a result, I don't really use it unless I'm very lost as to the next port of call, which has only happened once or twice.
The sequence of events leading up to the fourth dungeon is worth mentioning. The part in which you have to set things in motion again in Skyloft - the bit that Broodwars is apparently at - does have a few too many unneeded steps (like retrieving one of the windmills), but once you return to Faron Woods, the game gets back on track, as you are required to use new abilities in an early area to proceed.
I had my first Siren Realm experience, which given the apprehensions everybody had pre-release, was much more fun than I expected. If I may describe it in some detail: The comparisons to the tear hunt in Twilight Princess and the Ocean King temple in Phantom Hourglass have been exaggerated to the extreme. Yeah, you're collecting tears and there are Guardians after you, but the dynamic is very different; in my opinion, it's more intense, while at the same time more manageable. Basically, they are always chasing you, but every time you collect a tear, the Guardians are disabled for 90 seconds, allowing you to look around with less tension. Plus, there are these Light Fruit pick-ups, which will temporarily place beacons on the tears. However, certain things in the environment will trigger an 'alarm', so to speak, cancelling that stuff out and putting the Guardians back on your tail. There's no denying that the Siren Realm is far better realised than the aforementioned sections of those other games, and I'm actually intrigued to see how it plays out in the other areas, which are quite different in geometry terms.
Later, you need to re-enter the 1st dungeon to collect an item. Fortunately, unlike a couple of the more time-consuming and less interesting "fetch quests" you've had to do on the way here, this was well done. For one, all the shortcuts are still in place, so cutting through this dungeon is quick and easy. Different enemies have also populated the place, which changes things up a little. Best of all, there are a couple of new puzzles that utilise items you've obtained since the last time you came here. I may have even found a Piece of Heart that you couldn't have gotten previously, although don't quote me on that -- I might have been silly the first time through.
Looking forward to seeing what dungeon #4 can bring to the table. Dungeon #3 set the bar high.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 24, 2011, 02:07:14 PM
Ok, the harp-strumming mini-game in the Pumpkin Bar can go to hell at this point. The game gives you no feedback on how you're doing until the end, and it's a very hard bout of almost pure waggle. Ugh. I really don't like the harp in general compared to the other instruments, as it doesn't feel like you're playing anything when you use it. It just feels like you're randomly waving your hand across the strings to the time of a metronome. Very unsatisfying.
EDIT: I've completed my first Silent Realm on my first try. It wasn't fun, but if you don't panic and plan your routes well it seems pretty harmless. I think Nintendo took the lazy way out just reusing environments they already made for these trails, but whatever.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 24, 2011, 03:33:43 PM
Ok, the harp-strumming mini-game in the Pumpkin Bar can go to hell at this point. The game gives you no feedback on how you're doing until the end, and it's a very hard bout of almost pure waggle. Ugh. I really don't like the harp in general compared to the other instruments, as it doesn't feel like you're playing anything when you use it. It just feels like you're randomly waving your hand across the strings to the time of a metronome. Very unsatisfying.
EDIT: I've completed my first Silent Realm on my first try. It wasn't fun, but if you don't panic and plan your routes well it seems pretty harmless. I think Nintendo took the lazy way out just reusing environments they already made for these trails, but whatever.
Haven't gotten that far yet (just got the game last night), but glad to hear it isn't obnoxious.
Anyway so far I'm really enjoying myself, the game manages to distinguish itself from the other Zeldas. Yeah the intro segment is kind of boring and bland, but if one can trudge through Kingdom Hearts 2's intro segment you can get through anything (I think KH2's introductory stuff was far more tedious then any Zelda game). I am most impressed by the controls, they work wonderfully for the most part, even the tightrope stuff isn't bad.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 24, 2011, 03:51:25 PM
I have to say the controls are annoying me. I love the game itself to bits, but I'm afraid of all the games I have played on Wii, this is the one that proves to me that motion controls are an exercise in futility.
I have played with worse controls on the system, but those games were NOT Zelda. Zelda should be perfect and it's not. Multiple times I have died due the the controls messing things up on me. Most unpleasant experiences.
I think that if motion controls were going to work with this kind of tech it would have by now. Nintendo have been working with it for a few years now and used it for some high end games. Still has issues.
I think it's safe to say that Ian will not be impressed when his time comes.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 24, 2011, 04:00:40 PM
I just finished the completely pointless series of fetch quests that finally unlocked the 4th dungeon, which I am now in. Really, Nintendo? These games are long enough on their own without putting in time-padding fetch quests back to former dungeons where nothing new is introduced. Being someone's errand boy for the sake of being someone's errand boy is never fun. Is it not enough that I wear the outfit, that I wield the sword, that I can swim despite apparently that requiring magic items in this universe? No, I still have to prove myself to agents of the Goddess by performing an errand the game designers could have easily just had you skip.
Seriously, in terms of the Zelda lore I'm starting to side with Gannondorf (from Twilight Princess) on this: I think the Goddess(es) every couple of millennium get bored and decide to toy with the lives of their followers. So they allow a great evil to be unleashed for the sheer purpose of manipulating their sheep to close it up again.
BTW, has anyone managed to catch a bird yet? A bird's feathers are the only crafting ingredient I'm missing, but they always fly away before I can catch them in my net.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 24, 2011, 04:28:21 PM
I'm as annoyed as anything because the game keeps artificially limiting me. I need something to take big things to the sky. I have that something and someone wants me to find an object for them. I have found it. I've known where its been for half the game. Why won't it let me bring it up? Now I need to find the Windmill I go to Faron wood like I'm suppose to and there is no dowsing eating what-so-ever. I pop to points in all the areas still naught-a Just going to use the stone on all of these. These is a good game with way to much artificial limiting.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 24, 2011, 05:15:02 PM
I'm as annoyed as anything because the game keeps artificially limiting me. I need something to take big things to the sky. I have that something and someone wants me to find an object for them. I have found it. I've known where its been for half the game. Why won't it let me bring it up? Now I need to find the Windmill I go to Faron wood like I'm suppose to and there is no dowsing eating what-so-ever. I pop to points in all the areas still naught-a Just going to use the stone on all of these. These is a good game with way to much artificial limiting.
The Windmill piece is in the Volcanic area, to the left and down from the temple entrance. That's right! It's in a completely different area than the game hints you with the camera. And how lazy are these townsfolk that they can't just craft a new piece for that windmill?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 24, 2011, 05:23:50 PM
BTW, has anyone managed to catch a bird yet? A bird's feathers are the only crafting ingredient I'm missing, but they always fly away before I can catch them in my net.
The trick is to get close enough to the bird to lock on, then move very slowly towards it - as in, very slightly pushing on the control stick. When the net's shadow is under the bird, swing down quickly, and you should have your bird.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 24, 2011, 05:35:07 PM
BTW, has anyone managed to catch a bird yet? A bird's feathers are the only crafting ingredient I'm missing, but they always fly away before I can catch them in my net.
The trick is to get close enough to the bird to lock on, then move very slowly towards it - as in, very slightly pushing on the control stick. When the net's shadow is under the bird, swing down quickly, and you should have your bird.
Figures. I plan on using those bird feathers to upgrade my new (more traditional-looking) shield, so that'll come in handy. I already upgraded my slingshot to the scattershot, though only for completion's sake since I almost never use the slingshot now that I have the upgraded, speedy carrier beetle. I'll probably use it even less once I finally get the Bow.
Incidentally, outside of using them to upgrade your potions, is there any reason to collect the bugs? I know there's a guy at night in the academy who will buy them off you, but I don't see any sign that there's a quest yet that gives you a heart piece or gratitude crystals for it. Otherwise, I'd rather ignore them. I had enough bug collecting with Agatha in Twilight Princess.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 24, 2011, 08:27:44 PM
Ok, that 4th dungeon was pretty cool, a nice mixture of a Zelda water dungeon (surprisingly, one that does not suck) and something like the Spirit or Shadow temples from Ocarina of time, with a distinctive Chinese influence and more than a hint of darkness. The boss was very cool and memorable (I especially love how you have to take down its final form), and it was easily the most difficult boss I've run across since the first one. My only real problem with that dungeon is that swimming in this game sucks because the Wii remote steering doesn't let you make sharp turns, and you do a lot of swimming in that dungeon. Still, cool dungeon and some interesting developments once you reach the first sacred flame...
EDIT: I barely managed to complete the second Silent Realm trial on my first run. I missed a tear up on top of the main tower, and the timer ran out as I was scaling up it. I managed to snag the last tear just as one of the guardians was about to hit me. Wow, that was intense, but I did see that you have a fair amount of leeway with the guardians. You can outrun them, so long as you have enough stamina and you know where you're going. And it's about time I got this particular inventory item. There have been quite a few places I've been wanting to get to with these.
EDIT 2: Hah! Zelda has a Tingle doll in her room, and there's something else you can check out in there as well. :D In case you're wondering how you get in there, you need a certain tool to enter through the chimney on the roof.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 25, 2011, 04:57:50 AM
Well, I'm putting things up for the night now after having completed Dungeon 5, which really wasn't a very interesting dungeon. The dungeon was decent enough, but it just felt somewhat lame since it was just regurgitating ideas from a much better earlier dungeon, with only one new element thanks to the dungeon's weapon. It also didn't help that you have to go through several smaller dungeons in what turns out to be a total waste of time (gee, imagine that happening in this game) before you are even allowed to enter the main dungeon. The boss was visually interesting, but was so simple and easy to kill that it felt like a let-down after how awesome the boss of Dungeon 4 was.
Unfortunately, over 30 hours into the game now one thing's become very much clear: Fi is the worst part of this game. She ruins this game all on her lonesome. Oh, sorry, I guess I should stop calling it a "she", because that implies there is some actual personality to that Ghost in the Shell. Fi is Nintendo's definitive declaration to the entire gaming populace that they think we are all STUPID. They think I am stupid. They think you are stupid. They even make it obvious that they think the casuals are stupid.
Why does Nintendo think we are all stupid? Because Fi never shuts up. She chimes in after just about every cutscene, every major exchange of dialogue with an NPC, and every camera hint to the player. She reveals the solution to puzzles, the use of certain dungeon items, and the means to take down various enemies...ALL without being asked by the player. And since you cannot turn her off, you are FORCED to endure her bland monologues about every single thing in the game, and it does major harm to the game's exploration and puzzle-solving with this spoiler-toting harpy chiming in every other step. Sure, we've have characters like Navi and Midna in the past who were fond of chiming in, but they usually only did so when the player prompted them to give advice. Fi chimes in whether you want her or not.
Yes, Fi, believe it or not, but 5 dungeons into the game I am very well aware of what a boss key chest looks like. Yes, I know what hitting those particular crystals does, because I've already done it for several dungeons now! Yes, I know how much in love with dowsing you are, but I don't care! I'm not going to use it unless I have to! Yes, I know that event just happened, because I WAS ****ING THERE AND JUST SAW A WHOLE CINEMATIC SHOWING THAT EVENT!"
Fi is Nintendo's complete admission that they think we are too stupid to understand simple cues like camera hints, too slow to learn from experience how to deal with the same situation when it pops up consistently over a multiple-hour experience. She is an insult to us, and I think she is an insult to the very casuals she was designed for.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on November 25, 2011, 10:47:21 AM
Just wanted to say that the only issue I've been having with this game control wise is when skydiving, particularly when I jump from the floating waterfall on Skyloft in order to reach that bird's nest. If someone has done it, and would be willing to help me...
Everything else works like a charm, and I'm adoring this game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 25, 2011, 11:14:37 AM
Well I'm about to go into what I think is the 4th temple. My big issue with this Post-3rd temple stuff is the Windmill and going back to Skyview Temple. I honestly think those both could have been cut without the game suffering.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on November 25, 2011, 12:10:54 PM
7 hours in. Everything is coated in a layer of bad design. Flying is frustrating. Everyone talks too much and says NOTHING of interest. Every NPC is annoying and just doles out the most pointless, asinine tasks. How come I can't fly at night? Where is the F_ing minimap? How come I can't access the beacon and move it whenever I need to? WHERE IS THE F__ING MINIMAP? How come i have to jump off a specific point to be able to call my bird? GTA 3 was more limited by the ps2's tech and it had a huge open world (which SS doesn't have) with seamless integration of MULTIPLE vehicles and on foot portions let alone how much GTA SA did on the PS2 what... 7 years ago?
There are far too many poorly done, disjointed pieces to this and none of them are interesting and none of them are fun. Combat is waggle +. Outside of the music, everyone that made this should be banned from ever working in the videogame industry again. This is Nintendo's Chineese Democracy. Bloated and masterbatorial. Where is the fun? 7 hours in and I've yet to find it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 25, 2011, 01:22:49 PM
Why does Nintendo think we are all stupid? Because Fi never shuts up. She chimes in after just about every cutscene, every major exchange of dialogue with an NPC, and every camera hint to the player. She reveals the solution to puzzles, the use of certain dungeon items, and the means to take down various enemies...ALL without being asked by the player. And since you cannot turn her off, you are FORCED to endure her bland monologues about every single thing in the game, and it does major harm to the game's exploration and puzzle-solving with this spoiler-toting harpy chiming in every other step. Sure, we've have characters like Navi and Midna in the past who were fond of chiming in, but they usually only did so when the player prompted them to give advice. Fi chimes in whether you want her or not.
As I have many times before, I must object to this line of thinking, because it suggests that people who have difficulties playing Zelda games are stupid. Believe me - I have tried to introduce many people to Legend of Zelda over the years, it being my favourite series after all, and most of them find it hard to digest. It's relatively complicated by most standards and the puzzles often require lateral thinking, spatial awareness, memory... all sorts. But let's make something clear: these people are not stupid because they find these games difficult.
Before we go any further, I will say that I do agree with you to an extent, in that I think Fi is sometimes very overzealous (the example you gave about the boss keys is a good one). Although maybe I have to take a step back; I've played nearly every title in the series, and I've developed a knack for recognising some of these things before I'm told about them explicitly by the game that other people I know won't have.
However, your argument is basically that you think Fi was included to appeal to stupid people, which I feel is flawed and, more to the point, unfair. Some of my friends might find Fi to be useful if they played Skyward Sword. Does that make them stupid? Of course it doesn't. People who struggle with video games are NOT stupid.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 25, 2011, 01:28:52 PM
As I have many times before, I must object to this line of thinking, because it suggests that people who have difficulties playing Zelda games are stupid. Believe me - I have tried to introduce many people to Legend of Zelda over the years, it being my favourite series after all, and most of them find it hard to digest. It's relatively complicated by most standards and the puzzles often require lateral thinking, spatial awareness, memory... all sorts. But let's make something clear: these people are not stupid because they find these games difficult.
However, your argument is basically that you think Fi was included to appeal to stupid people, which I feel is flawed and, more to the point, unfair. Some of my friends might find Fi to be useful if they played Skyward Sword. Does that make them stupid? Of course it doesn't. People who struggle with video games are NOT stupid.
As I said, I don't think the average player of this game is stupid. I think Nintendo must think that the way that Fi will just not let you figure much of anything in this game out on your own without butting in and giving you the solution. I'm completely fine with the game having a helper character for players who need it. There can be some tricky situations in this game where even I needed a little hint from time to time, and having such a character there to lend help when you ask for it is very handy. But the game often gives you no choice with Fi, as she tends to jump in to give away a solution unprompted. And I think that hurts the game because it doesn't encourage you as the player to work out a puzzle for yourself.
I think the audience playing this game is smarter than Nintendo gives them credit for with Fi, who spends the entire game talking down to you as if you are too stupid to notice a single thing in this game. Why even have the musical cues, camera cues, and cutscenes if you're just going to have Fi jump in every 2 seconds and explain away the entire situation? It's insulting how little respect this game has for the player.
And what's really ironically hilarious is that the few times I've needed a hint from Fi, she's been spectacularly useless at giving me any more information than I already know. There's a particular door sequence puzzle in the 5th dungeon that I ended up having to solve just randomly swiping at the door, because the game doesn't seem to give you any clue what the order of the symbols on the floor is.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 25, 2011, 01:32:55 PM
Gonna start playing again after having sneezing fits yesterday. It seems I am behind some people but I am taking my time with the game and enjoying it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 25, 2011, 01:34:19 PM
Personally most of my problems with Fi would go away if:
1. They used when you last played to when you are playing to determine whether or not to do the pickup items, dungeon key, etc. After about a week or two of not playing reminding me of some of these things is ok but, an hour... That's Silly.
2. Decide what she is suppose to be. Dancing artistically everytime you read something from the ancient language then give me all my other information with not expression doesn't exactly mix together.
I like how they have the different control levels for whats shown. I wish Fi would correlate to those when it came to items and some of the other redundant information.
Also most of the time Fi Hints are useless and I have to use the stone when I'm really stuck. Which is normally Pixel hunting level of stuff.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 25, 2011, 01:42:16 PM
As I said, I don't think the average player of this game is stupid. I think Nintendo must think that the way that Fi will just not let you figure much of anything in this game out on your own without butting in and giving you the solution. I'm completely fine with the game having a helper character for players who need it. There can be some tricky situations in this game where even I needed a little hint from time to time, and having such a character there to lend help when you ask for it is very handy. But the game often gives you no choice with Fi, as she tends to jump in to give away a solution unprompted. And I think that hurts the game because it doesn't encourage you as the player to work out a puzzle for yourself.
I think the audience playing this game is smarter than Nintendo gives them credit for with Fi, who spends the entire game talking down to you as if you are too stupid to notice a single thing in this game. Why even have the musical cues, camera cues, and cutscenes if you're just going to have Fi jump in every 2 seconds and explain away the entire situation? It's insulting how little respect this game has for the player.
Just a teensy bit of exaggeration there. In dungeons, you're pretty much left to your own devices. Like I said, I agree that you can go overboard with the explanation of certain things. Anyway, it's a shame this is such a problem for you, but I really don't think it's anywhere near as annoying as you're making it out to be.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on November 25, 2011, 02:10:32 PM
Just a teensy bit of exaggeration there. In dungeons, you're pretty much left to your own devices. Like I said, I agree that you can go overboard with the explanation of certain things. Anyway, it's a shame this is such a problem for you, but I really don't think it's anywhere near as annoying as you're making it out to be.
I did exaggerate a bit for effect (but only a bit), but it still happens often enough that it breaks my experience whenever it does. Every time I start to get into a groove with this game, out comes Fi to tell me something obvious that I already know or a hint to a puzzle I've barely started. It's incredibly frustrating to the point of actually making me angry (which even the motion controls didn't do early on before I got used to them), especially because Fi aside this is is quite possibly my 2nd favorite Zelda game, behind Majora's Mask. If the dungeons step it up more, it could even supplant that game. I just wish Nintendo was willing to have faith in the player to ask for help when they need it, but to otherwise stay out of their way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 25, 2011, 02:36:18 PM
I wish Fi would give more lore like she hints at. That be cool.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 25, 2011, 02:38:47 PM
Everyone has to remember that Nintendo designs all Zelda games to be playable for first time players to the series. Even though I'm only half way through the game, the first half of Skyward Sword is easily the most challenging first half for a 3D Zelda. Skyward Sword completely redid the overword structure where now getting to the dungeons is basically a dungeon in itself, were players are constantly doing puzzles and moving through mazelike sections in order to get to the dungeon. Unlike the previous 3D Zelda where getting to the dungeons were pretty clear paths with the only obstacles being one something thing that the items from the previous dungeon would allow you to pass.
Because of this its not hard to see why Nintendo was a little extra cautious. Since Skyward Sword is more complex then previous Zeldas, they wanted to make sure new players wouldn't be completely lost. Now yeah at certain points in they went overboard but if that is what it took to finally make overworld more exciting instead of straight lines leading from one dungeon to another, I'll gladly take Fi.
Besides, I just view Fi as another enemy encounter. Every time she appears I just hold A so the text goes by faster while not bothering to read it and it's gone in a few seconds. About the same amount of time to defeat a random Bokoblin.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 25, 2011, 04:41:50 PM
2. Decide what she is suppose to be. Dancing artistically everytime you read something from the ancient language then give me all my other information with not expression doesn't exactly mix together.
When I saw that, I genuinely said, "What the ****?!" out loud to no one.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 25, 2011, 04:43:25 PM
Alright this Extra Credits (http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/easy-games) Really Resonates with how I feel about Zelda.
2. Decide what she is suppose to be. Dancing artistically everytime you read something from the ancient language then give me all my other information with not expression doesn't exactly mix together.
When I saw that, I genuinely said, "What the ****?!" out loud to no one.
lol. I've been recording my play through minus the first dungeon which it messed up on so I would have audio proof of that moment. Though it does show off her legs and stalkings. Not to mention not being flat. :p
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 25, 2011, 04:59:44 PM
I have completed the final (I hope) Silent Realm trial, though this one took me 2 tries to complete successfully. There is just one section that's very tricky to do without being detected, since you're sandwiched between 2 guardians on a steep incline w/ 3 detectors swooping around. I have also completed some minor quests around Skyloft, including finally winning the harp mini-game to get a well-deserved heart piece and finish that quest line. I also managed to catch some birds to upgrade my shield, as well as some tumbleweed for the Big Bug Net. I wish they just sold the frickin' tumbleweeds, because the things are annoying to find and catch and most of the upgrades for the later items require large numbers of it.
At this point, the game finally lets you dowse for useful things like Goddess Cubes, starbits gratitude crystals, and treasures. Why the game didn't you let you search for these from the beginning, I'll never understand because it's just about the only thing dowsing's useful for. And, of course, it's not enough to have the ability with your sword to dowse for these items. No, of course this dowsing searches are only added to your search list if you find the correct person to talk to to remind Fi to do its frickin' job.
The story's starting to have some interesting implications given what you see Link starting to acquire as he gets the 3 sacred flames for the Skyward Sword. From the hints I've been hearing from people who have finished the game, Skyward Sword could potentially have some far-ranging implications for the future of the franchise if this keeps up.
EDIT: Thanks a lot for a pointless and fairly difficult (towards the end) time-padding escort mission, Nintendo. That was sooooo completely necessary considering there was a warp point right at the place I was going to use that item.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on November 25, 2011, 08:30:00 PM
The end.
In 45 hours.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 25, 2011, 08:46:44 PM
In the midst of the 6th dungeon boss after what was a genuinely good fire dungeon with a new item that has interesting new gameplay applications I'm eager to try. However, this boss is just frustrating and makes me wonder just how strapped for resources Nintendo inexplicable was with this game. The boss is just Ghirahem again. And this isn't even the first time this game has recycled a boss. It's bad enough that this game recycles environments by making you continually return to previous ones and just color-swaps the same handful of enemies, but recycling the same boss fights w/ very little new added? *sigh*
EDIT: And it's followed by another repeated boss fight, though at least this one introduces a fun new sidekick element to it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 25, 2011, 09:45:32 PM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 25, 2011, 09:53:23 PM
Oh boy, as the saying goes "**** just got REAL." Yes, it likely means another fetch quest (of sorts), but this one seems fairly intriguing. And I'll give Nintendo some credit on some really well-done animation on that last cutscene, as there was some genuine emotion in that scene that's rare to see in Nintendo games.
It's amazing to think that a story this relatively solid and characters that seem this true to their iconic forms came from the same company that brought us Metroid Other M.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on November 25, 2011, 10:21:16 PM
Sunday. Could have been done on Thursday if it weren't for work.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on November 26, 2011, 12:12:31 AM
do you ever get a minimap? That seems like a pretty huge mistake to leave it out considering it worked so well for every other zelda game. I guess if the people that made SS had actually PLAYED another Zelda game they would have noticed but, I guess they can't be bothered, the idiots.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 26, 2011, 12:28:56 AM
do you ever get a minimap? That seems like a pretty huge mistake to leave it out considering it worked so well for every other zelda game. I guess if the people that made SS had actually PLAYED another Zelda game they would have noticed but, I guess they can't be bothered, the idiots.
I really didn't mind the lack of a minimap, honestly. The map is pretty easily accessible, and it's not like the environments are actually big and epic like they usually are in Zelda games. </backhanded compliment>
This game is rapidly dropping out of my top tier of Zelda games, though. I really do like the story, but good God this game is so padded and re-uses so many enemies and assets that you'd think this was a Tri-Ace JRPG. Remember the Spirited Away boss I mentioned earlier? The one that was a big, awesome, and epic confrontation? I'm now doing that fight for the third. frickin'. TIME. And it's gotten less awesome with each passing encounter with this thing, and it's not like this is the first time they've re-used a boss fight.
On top of all the other obvious padding this game showcases on a by-hour basis, I just don't understand how this game took five years to make. I really don't, especially since the game world is so small you could probably fit it all inside a handful of Xenoblade's larger maps. If you stripped away all the re-used encounters and blatant padding with fetch quests and pointless errands, this game would be around 20 hours long. I'm around 40 now, which I wouldn't mind if that was 40 hours of new experiences, but it's not. And why is this game so small and the assets so few? It's a AAA Nintendo flagship game, with presumably all the time and money in the world dumped on it.
This is getting ridiculous, and it's a shame because when the game isn't playing "keep away" with the story it's really good. But every time I start to get invested in this game and having a great time, the designers pull the rug out from under me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 26, 2011, 12:33:54 AM
If a mini map is the biggest complaint that you have then I don't see it being a big deal in the scheme of things. Plus the worlds are pretty compact and you tend to play in them alot so the levels should come second nature.Plus if you can't press one single button to bring up the map then well I don't know what to say to you.
I think this game has kinda went back to the exploratory roots of the series. In some respects the game lets you figure things out for yourself like the dungeons while other times it just points you in the right direction.
Oh quick question for those having problems with Fi. Are you using the standard or light interface?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 26, 2011, 12:40:02 AM
Oh quick question for those having problems with Fi. Are you using the standard or light interface?
I set my interface to "Pro" as soon as the game let me.
EDIT: Ugh...collecting underwater music notes to "prove my worth"? WTF is this? The crappy Little Mermaid worlds from the Kingdom Hearts games? Banjo-Kazooie?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on November 26, 2011, 12:59:46 AM
If a mini map is the biggest complaint that you have then I don't see it being a big deal in the scheme of things. Plus the worlds are pretty compact and you tend to play in them alot so the levels should come second nature.Plus if you can't press one single button to bring up the map then well I don't know what to say to you.
I think this game has kinda went back to the exploratory roots of the series.
The lack of minimap is a symptom of a larger problem that encompasses this game--nothing, NOTHING is designed well. everything takes at least a few more button presses, a few more minutes than it should. The game has NO flow. Fi is part of that. Endless, un-skipable exposition is part of that. The disjointed world is part of that. Yes, pausing every few minutes isn't difficult, but it would be unnecessary if things that worked well were kept in the series.
Look at the town. How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island? Why can't I leave at night? Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime? Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?
Everything feels anti-intuitive and massively user unfriendly.
Also, Zelda 1 had a minimap. This isn't a return to it's roots (since it's roots were basically Gauntlet with a dose of RPG) this is disappearing up one's own ass.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 26, 2011, 01:09:13 AM
If a mini map is the biggest complaint that you have then I don't see it being a big deal in the scheme of things. Plus the worlds are pretty compact and you tend to play in them alot so the levels should come second nature.Plus if you can't press one single button to bring up the map then well I don't know what to say to you.
I think this game has kinda went back to the exploratory roots of the series.
The lack of minimap is a symptom of a larger problem that encompasses this game--nothing, NOTHING is designed well. everything takes at least a few more button presses, a few more minutes than it should. The game has NO flow. Fi is part of that. Endless, un-skipable exposition is part of that. The disjointed world is part of that. Yes, pausing every few minutes isn't difficult, but it would be unnecessary if things that worked well were kept in the series.
Look at the town. How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island? Why can't I leave at night? Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime? Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?
Everything feels anti-intuitive and massively user unfriendly.
There is enough spots to jump off around the island wherever you may be. You don't have to go back to your bedroom everytime you want to make it day time. Any bed will do to change the time of day. Any of the residents beds will work to change the time of day. The only time it does that is when you power on the game after you stop playing so if you play alot and keep the game on then that isn't an issue.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 26, 2011, 01:09:43 AM
Look at the town. How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island?
You know, that bugged me as well. An addendum to that is why you can't just land wherever you want on the island when you are clearly falling on a certain part of it. You can everywhere else in the sky overworld, but in Skyloft you're just teleported to a particular spot on the island when it loads. That really infuriated me early on until I got the tools to explore certain areas of the island I tried to reach by falling on them. I don't understand why you can only call you bird when you jump (not fall. Apparently, your telepathically-linked bird isn't interested in you if you fall from the island) from certain platforms. It makes no sense, though it's a minor issue compared to all the other gaping flaws this game has, so I overlook it.
Quote
Why can't I leave at night?
I think the story conceit for that is that your Loftwing doesn't have a big flashlight attached to its beak like the "Knights" do, so you can't see when flying at night. It's silly, but once again a drop in the bucket compared to the real flaws of the game.
The real answer, of course, is that Nintendo couldn't be bothered to design either overworld so it is lit properly for play at night. That actually bothers me more on the surface than it does Skyloft.
Quote
Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime?
Because obviously the Wii can't handle a day/night cycle, especially if it's determined on the fly by the user. *cough*Xenoblade*cough* ::)
Quote
Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?
See my earlier rant about how Nintendo thinks the players are stupid. I'm sorry, but there's a difference between being "accommodating to new players" and "talking down to them", and more often than not Nintendo sides with the latter.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on November 26, 2011, 04:05:23 AM
7 hours in. Everything is coated in a layer of bad design. Flying is frustrating. Everyone talks too much and says NOTHING of interest. Every NPC is annoying and just doles out the most pointless, asinine tasks. How come I can't fly at night? Where is the F_ing minimap? How come I can't access the beacon and move it whenever I need to? WHERE IS THE F__ING MINIMAP? How come i have to jump off a specific point to be able to call my bird? GTA 3 was more limited by the ps2's tech and it had a huge open world (which SS doesn't have) with seamless integration of MULTIPLE vehicles and on foot portions let alone how much GTA SA did on the PS2 what... 7 years ago?
There are far too many poorly done, disjointed pieces to this and none of them are interesting and none of them are fun. Combat is waggle +. Outside of the music, everyone that made this should be banned from ever working in the videogame industry again. This is Nintendo's Chineese Democracy. Bloated and masterbatorial. Where is the fun? 7 hours in and I've yet to find it.
Flying takes some getting used to. I've played a lot of the flight mode in Wii Sports Resort so that helped in reminding me in Skyward Sword that you have to quite steady with the Wii Remote. A quick up-then-down motion is needed to flap the bird's wings so you can't be lazy about it. I've found that you don't really need to flapping all the time unless you need to gain altitude (which you need to flap for). So far, it doesn't seem significantly faster to flap the wings constantly. I'm early in the game and the flight mechanics are satisfactory.
The map beacon has the annoyance of requiring to retrieve it in order to set in a new position. Sort of like how in Smash Bros. Melee (iirc) you needed to pick up the character puck in order to select a new character. Sad thing is that Brawl let you press B to retrieve the puck.
Dialog and quests I have nothing to argue against with at this time.
Minimap? Not able to call the bird at will? Ha! You have to be more in-tune with your inner Japanese gamer and be able to memorize maps and only call the bird where the game lets you. .... A mini-map at all times is what I expected and would've helped. Interface does look nice a clean in Pro or Light mode. It's odd that you have to jump and fall in specific places and specific manners in order to call the bird.
The lack of minimap is a symptom of a larger problem that encompasses this game--nothing, NOTHING is designed well. everything takes at least a few more button presses, a few more minutes than it should. The game has NO flow. Fi is part of that. Endless, un-skipable exposition is part of that. The disjointed world is part of that. Yes, pausing every few minutes isn't difficult, but it would be unnecessary if things that worked well were kept in the series.
Look at the town. How come I can't jump off wherever and call my bird... or why doesn't my bird just show up when I'm at Y coordinate under the island? Why can't I leave at night? Why am I wasting any time running back to my bedroom so I can select it to be daytime? Why is the game pausing every time I pick up a scrap of whatever for the upgrade system that seems totally pointless?
Everything feels anti-intuitive and massively user unfriendly.
Also, Zelda 1 had a minimap. This isn't a return to it's roots (since it's roots were basically Gauntlet with a dose of RPG) this is disappearing up one's own ass.
I would say the game is designed in the an odd and (old?) Japanese manner. Feel free to call such styles not well as I wouldn't blame you.
I wouldn't say the game has no flow. I think it is more apt to say that the game has a slow flow. Glacial, if your shoulder is feeling particularly icy. The slow flow exemplifies itself in how pressing A just speeds up dialog rather than displays it all at once. When I let the dialog go by itself, it can be a bit charming to see how the display speed is used to inject some personality to the text.
With some other video games being accused of appealing too much to those who can't hold their attention for long, it's interesting to see a game that goes far in the opposite direction in aspects of its presentation.
As for the hand-holding, Nintendo does lay it on in a thick and tiring manner.
On top of all the other obvious padding this game showcases on a by-hour basis, I just don't understand how this game took five years to make. I really don't, especially since the game world is so small you could probably fit it all inside a handful of Xenoblade's larger maps. If you stripped away all the re-used encounters and blatant padding with fetch quests and pointless errands, this game would be around 20 hours long. I'm around 40 now, which I wouldn't mind if that was 40 hours of new experiences, but it's not. And why is this game so small and the assets so few? It's a AAA Nintendo flagship game, with presumably all the time and money in the world dumped on it.
This is getting ridiculous, and it's a shame because when the game isn't playing "keep away" with the story it's really good. But every time I start to get invested in this game and having a great time, the designers pull the rug out from under me.
Well, I may have took 5 years but I doubt they kept even half of what they made in that time. Maybe Nintendo feels pressured with Zelda to provide a long experience no matter the cost. The worse thought is that they convinced themselves that it's okay to reuse areas and applying minor tweaks makes them interesting again. As for the time and money comment, I first and foremost trust Nintendo to be cheap on their end no matter the situation.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Snake-Arms on November 26, 2011, 10:24:25 AM
Played this game for the first time a few nights ago. From my limited time with the game I can already see why the controls are so praised. They are smooth like buttah. Too bad I dun sold my Wii.
Oops.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 26, 2011, 01:28:11 PM
Still haven't gotten much of a chance to play the game, but I am at the second temple. So far so good, I really enjoyed the first boss battle, it was challenges and unique. The sword controls are fantastic, and the game is hardly a "waggle fest" especially now. The day/night cycle in Skyloft is something I actually like, it is nice to be able to lock the day or night in until you are done.
Really I have no complaints about the controls at all, everything has worked extremely well. Funny enough my main complaint with the controls is the archaic auto-jumping system that is still in the series. I'd prefer something a bit different. The story and characters have been entertaining so far, and I can't wait to see the game evolve over time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on November 26, 2011, 02:14:41 PM
The auto-jumping system being archaic? Nearly the same system is in use in Batman: Arkham Asylum and the Assassin's Creed series. Typing of Assassin's Creed, Link has learned an extra step or two from Altair and Ezio when dashing in to a wall.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 26, 2011, 02:50:35 PM
Just because it's used in other games, doesn't mean it isn't archaic or a different way couldn't be better.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 26, 2011, 05:30:03 PM
I'm fine with the auto-jump in Zelda, although I kind of wish it was tweaked a bit to be more like Enslaved's version (where the character just wouldn't even attempt a jump off a platform unless there was ground to land on). To me, there's no point putting a jump button into Zelda (or Batman) unless you're going to make it a platformer, where you can really take advantage of that extra mobility. But there's a minimal amount of jumping in Zelda (most of your movement is running or climbing), so it doesn't bother me that I don't control it. I do think it is a little less forgivable in Assassin's Creed, though, since that does have a lot of platforming and jumping across rooftops and ruins.
Now, if Nintendo were to design the next Zelda with a lot of twitch platforming, I'd certainly want the freedom afforded by a jump button. But for right now, the controller's really tapped-out on buttons as it is so there's really no place to put it and it's not really a necessary feature right now.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on November 26, 2011, 09:21:34 PM
I'm not going to suggest not putting in a minimap or compass is somehow an eastern thing. It's a bad design thing. Flying around the landmark-free sky without a compass is bad design. Having beacons that you can't readily see is bad design. Yeah, I can get used to bad design, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS bad design. Someone at Nintendo should have screamed in the designers ears until these sorts of things are sorted out. There is no excuse for these things and calling it Japanese seems insulting to every Japanese person that didn't work on this game.
anyways. past the 3rd dungeon. Still too much padding and very little actual game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: alegoicoe on November 26, 2011, 10:28:04 PM
Am 25 hours deep into the game, and i like it alot, although the controls give some trouble specially with the harp, its nothing to serious.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 27, 2011, 12:59:23 AM
I'm fine with the auto-jump in Zelda, although I kind of wish it was tweaked a bit to be more like Enslaved's version (where the character just wouldn't even attempt a jump off a platform unless there was ground to land on). To me, there's no point putting a jump button into Zelda (or Batman) unless you're going to make it a platformer, where you can really take advantage of that extra mobility. But there's a minimal amount of jumping in Zelda (most of your movement is running or climbing), so it doesn't bother me that I don't control it. I do think it is a little less forgivable in Assassin's Creed, though, since that does have a lot of platforming and jumping across rooftops and ruins.
Now, if Nintendo were to design the next Zelda with a lot of twitch platforming, I'd certainly want the freedom afforded by a jump button. But for right now, the controller's really tapped-out on buttons as it is so there's really no place to put it and it's not really a necessary feature right now.
That is primarily what I mean. I'd like it to be a bit less finicky. The little platforming there is, can be aggravating if you don't have the camera lined up perfectly with the object you are jumping to. It isn't horrible, I just feel it could be implemented better.
I am interested (in a "how much do the controls suck" way) in getting the harp.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 27, 2011, 01:02:28 AM
I am interested (in a "how much do the controls suck" way) in getting the harp.
The controls are fine for the harp. The harp just completely sucks as a Zelda musical device since there is absolutely no correlation between what you do on the harp and the song you end up with at the end. It just feels so obviously tacked-on and pointless.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on November 27, 2011, 02:34:14 AM
I'm not going to suggest not putting in a minimap or compass is somehow an eastern thing. It's a bad design thing. Flying around the landmark-free sky without a compass is bad design. Having beacons that you can't readily see is bad design. Yeah, I can get used to bad design, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS bad design. Someone at Nintendo should have screamed in the designers ears until these sorts of things are sorted out. There is no excuse for these things and calling it Japanese seems insulting to every Japanese person that didn't work on this game.
anyways. past the 3rd dungeon. Still too much padding and very little actual game.
Grand beams of light and the only major land mass in the sky aren't landmarks?
I'm not suggesting the lack of a mini-map or compass is an eastern design style. Actually, Japanese games has mini-maps and compasses as often as western games.
The sky is so sparsely populated and all locations of importance clearly marked or visible that not having a mini-map or compass isn't much of a detriment to navigating it. Beacon's can be a bit finicky in the sky or on the surface. I've had one occurrence where I set a beacon in the sky and not be able to see it. Other than that, I've found Pumpkin Island, Bamboo Island, and Fun Fun Island just fine. Within the relatively closed confines of the surface areas, using beacons can be difficult. Especially so when you have to remember to retrieve the beacon in order to set it someplace else. Early on, the surface and the dungeons seem to be straight-forward enough to not really require a mini-map or beacons.
I recently wrapped up the 2nd dungeon and am liking the game so far. I'm not having as much trouble with bomb rolling or throwing as I've heard other people have. I just have to remember that the game responds best to big movements and responds poorly to small ones. I assume the rescue of three NPCs and the key separated in to five pieces is a sign of things to come.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 27, 2011, 04:50:34 PM
I haven't mentioned this but I can respect the women of Skyloft... Though I can't add much I'm at the 4th Dungeon and haven't touched the game in two days been playing a beta and Skylanders...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 27, 2011, 05:03:29 PM
Any tips on defeating the Pyro Fiend boss in Earth temple?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 27, 2011, 05:07:08 PM
Any tips on defeating the Pyro Fiend boss in Earth temple?
Treat him like a Dodongo, only you do the chopping later in the fight after his armor is fully destroyed.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 27, 2011, 06:07:09 PM
Loved the 4th boss. I remember seeing it, or something like it in trailers thinking it was terrible looking. Not only did it look cool, the way to defeat it was awesome! Glad to have a bit of WW in there. Easy boss though.
The hardest boss so far was the mini boss skeletor with 4 arms. Dude took away 2 hearts with every hit!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on November 27, 2011, 07:55:18 PM
so when enemies die do they drop weapons like in WW? that was missed in TP
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 27, 2011, 08:00:19 PM
so when enemies die do they drop weapons like in WW? that was missed in TP
No. They may drop "treasures" so you can craft your own weapon upgrades, but only one enemy in the game that I know of drops their own weapon for you to grab and that's part of the fight.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on November 27, 2011, 08:46:53 PM
I haven't been following this thread for fear of spoilers, but I finally got to spend some time with this one over the weekend. Loving it.
However, am I the only one having issues with Retard-Link, running around with his sword waving high above his head? I guess it's just how I hold my Wii Remote, but I find myself really distracted by this and having to put my sword up so I'm not spending the entire time thinking what a moron Link is.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 27, 2011, 08:53:53 PM
Beat the 3rd temple, loved the unique time shifting mechanics and the boss was fun, though extremely easy (it seems like the bosses have been getting easier since the first boss battle). Have to say I am continually impressed by the controls, they work so well, I can see why people say they cannot imagine playing another Zelda game without them, I especially love controlling the beetle.
Have to say though I am not looking forward to the silent realm which looks like I am getting close to.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on November 27, 2011, 08:54:58 PM
Bob, I think he looked weird with it straight out myself. I started holding the WiiMote out or over my opposite shoulder, ready to slash at an enemy at any time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 27, 2011, 09:02:48 PM
Have to say though I am not looking forward to the silent realm which looks like I am getting close to.
Honestly, as much as I hate forced stealth sections the Silent Realms aren't that bad, and I've completed all 3 of them. You get 90 seconds of free wandering every time you collect a tear, and the environments aren't that big to begin with. The biggest danger is just losing track of where the tears are because your 30 second tear beacon power-up wore off.
I've taken a few days off from playing this game because I overdid it when I was playing it. Besides, that forced underwater collectathon w/ the music notes late in the game was just the last straw and it completely killed my interest. I plan on getting back to the game either tonight or tomorrow now that I've recharged my batteries a bit just watching movies, but honestly I'd much rather play Skyrim or Xenoblade than Zelda right now. There's just way too much pointless filler in Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on November 27, 2011, 09:29:45 PM
The starter for my Blazer, which costed me $65, quit working and I had to cancel my preoder for this game to buy it. So, until I can come up with the money then I am stuck being envious of all of you. :'(
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 27, 2011, 09:31:37 PM
Has anyone completed that digging mini game in the volcano world?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GaMMa on November 28, 2011, 12:03:26 AM
Besides, that forced underwater collectathon w/ the music notes late in the game was just the last straw and it completely killed my interest. There's just way too much pointless filler in Zelda.
You've still got a bunch more to do in the game. Lots of what you call filler.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on November 28, 2011, 05:45:08 AM
so i heard you can take a **** in the game?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on November 28, 2011, 07:30:50 AM
Assignments have forced me to slow down my playthrough, but I'm still making progress. The last thing I did was save after completing the third Siren Realm (or is it Silent Realm?) sequence. Note to all not up to this point: when you get here, do not leave the tears located at the top of the area until last. It couldn't have been more intense - I had four Guardians hot on my heels for almost a minute as I ran for the final tear, rolled past one swing and got it by the skin of my teeth. Not a good way to do it. Really though, I wouldn't call these sections stealth gameplay. On the contrary, if you were to be cautious, as a stealthy person should be, you'd probably regret it. Succeeding in the Siren Realm is all about maximising the 90 seconds between each tear.
The only real complaint I've got at the moment is that each time you turn the game off and back on, it seems to treat treasures and bugs as if they're being picked up for the first time.
Still very much enjoying Skyward Sword on the whole. Those of you who enjoyed the mechanic of the third region and dungeon will be pleased to hear that this portion of the game isn't the only time it pops up. It's not just the puzzles; the visual effect itself is very striking when you explore the Sand Sea.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 28, 2011, 07:52:51 AM
I spent some more time with the game this weekend. So far, I'm still not hooked. The game is filled with little annoyances that alone would be fine but stacked together are affecting the experience.
Robot Fi is such an ass. I hate her. She no where near as interesting as Midna and she's even more intrusive than Navi. "the integrity of your shield is..." No ****, I know and I knew before the 15th time you told me. "There's a 93% chance Zelda..." NEVER TELL ME THE ODDS! And, bitch, I still don't know how to pronounce your name.
Voice acting. This series needs it.
Dowsing is a lame gameplay mechanic.
I still hate flying. I don't find it enjoyable. And you always drop in the same place on Skyloft. Everything about flying has pissed me off so far. It's like Nintendo decided that people enjoyed riding Epona too much so they did the opposite and came up with flying on giant birds and diving off of them and onto tiny islands with like a single chest.
Ghirahim broke my shield when I wasn't even using it. I restarted the boss out of principle just so I could unequip it. I've avoided using the shield because it's so weak at this point.
I like the controls but I think I still prefer regular old traditional controls. I'll reserve my final thoughts on this until I finish the game but so far, I find them more distracting than good.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on November 28, 2011, 11:27:02 AM
The only real complaint I've got at the moment is that each time you turn the game off and back on, it seems to treat treasures and bugs as if they're being picked up for the first time.
This is now the earliest Zelda game, set before Ocarina of Time. Where does Minish cap fit? I thought that was the origin of his green hat.
Well Ezlo was from the sky, and he got turned into a bird-like cap, so I'm guessing that Ezlo just introduced to that Link the usage of a green cap.
There's a lot of inkling connections in SS to what other LoZ games have shown us before, and the ending definitely assures that this is the first LoZ. If anything, now I'm not sure how Nintendo is going to make the next LoZ (Wii U/3DS) game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on November 28, 2011, 08:03:51 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/XvjGM.jpg)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on November 28, 2011, 08:50:26 PM
I finally saw that brown, smiling box in my postbox today, which signifies that the game has arrived. As I expected, the gold Wiimote looks better in person than it does in the pics, though that white B button sure does stick out. I've already spent at least an hour wandering around the town, then another fifteen minutes just playing with the sword in the training room. I'm not so sure I'll finish this by the end of the year.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 28, 2011, 11:50:26 PM
So I started playing Zelda again, and I went through and upgraded all my equipment to the max level pretty much because there's nothing else to do with my rupees and treasures now. I completed my business with my third trip to the desert (no, there's no padding in this game whatsoever), which was pretty easy because I already knew what to do after having talked with an NPC earlier. What I had to do to solve that puzzle was a lot less monumental-feeling than I expected considering what a big event it should be in Zelda history. I was tempted to do the Boss Rush mode that unlocked then, but I don't think I've fought enough bosses yet to unlock the big reward for finishing that mode.
So now I'm dealing with my 3rd and hopefully final trip to the volcanic area. And...I'm thrown into a Wind Waker-style forced stealth section. As James would say, "Thanks, game." Ugh...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on November 29, 2011, 12:31:03 AM
I was tempted to do the Boss Rush mode that unlocked then, but I don't think I've fought enough bosses yet to unlock the big reward for finishing that mode.
You can unlock all rewards (heart piece, indestructible shield, and even more rupees), but in order to win each one you have to reach its specific battle order, take the prize, and do it again two more times. The only boss you won't be able to fight is the last one, as that is only possible in Hero Mode.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on November 29, 2011, 01:08:38 AM
How to Play Skyward Sword 1. Collect ****. 2. Read during cutscene. 3. Collect more ****. 4. Boss. 5. Go back to step 1.
I'm still not impressed. It's discouraging. I'm collecting more **** and I'm beginning to not care. One thing I forgot to mention earlier: Like every other Zelda game, the game beeps when you're low on health and as an added bonus, Link blinks red (I don't remember if this was done in Twilight Princess or the DS games). On top of that, Robot Fi keeps reminding me that I'm low on health. I know! I fucking know because the game constantly tells me in at least 3 other ways (the heart meter, the beeping, and Link blinking). I don't have any potions and these blades of grass aren't giving me hearts. Can you please shut the **** up, Fi? There's nothing more I can do. I wish there was a Pro/Shut-the-hell-up-Fi option for playing the game. I'm not even in the second dungeon and I don't think I can take 45 or so more hours of her nagging. And people complained about Navi. Bitch, please. I just played Ocarina of Time again a few months ago. Navi was awesome. She said something maybe like once every 20 minutes if you strayed from the main quest.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 29, 2011, 02:52:25 AM
I'm stuck in the mines with the quicksand.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 29, 2011, 03:03:46 AM
Just completed the last Silent Realm after probably 4 attempts at it. That was really a really terrible forced stealth section. The 3rd trip to the volcanic realm felt particularly pointless and false, and it kind of felt like it was ripping off Chrono Trigger a bit (yeah, I know...those kind of sequences have been in other RPGs, but the way this played out felt exactly like a notable sequence in Chrono Trigger, only tremendously lamer and lazy since it was yet again Nintendo just re-using an environment they already had, just with more lava everywhere and some tunnel points). And this game doesn't deserve to be anywhere near Chrono Trigger's company on just about anything. What, Nintendo? Did you really think I lost my appreciation for the Slingshot and Bomb? That after going through entire dungeons dedicated to these items that I somehow didn't fully appreciate their usefulness?
Still, at least it wasn't as bad as the underwater music note sequence. That section was so bad, I think it replaced Atlantica from Kingdom Hearts 2 as the worst music-based mini-game in all of gaming. That takes talent, because Atlantica is an abomination in Kingdom Hearts 2 (though at least the "final boss" of it is set to a kind of neat cut song from The Little Mermaid).
EDIT: Well, it's a good thing they pointed this stupid thing out earlier in the game, or I'd never think to look there. I was wondering when I'd finally get to do something with that.
EDIT 2: Well, the dungeon I'm in right now feels like the Point of No Return with the way the various rooms are done and given what the quest here is for. That being the case, I'm going to revert to my save file before I entered this dungeon and try to do some clean-up on Heart Pieces and Goddess Cubes. I also need to do the Boss Rush mode, just for two of the prizes in particular (it just doesn't feel right finishing a Zelda game without either of them). Whether I'll finish the game in the near future depends on how incredibly annoying it is to get the rest of the heart pieces. And judging by the fact that I still need to do at least the bug castle probably multiple times as well as the roulette wheel, that's looking pretty annoying so it'll probably be a while.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on November 29, 2011, 07:39:25 AM
Just got the windmill to align the two sails to the tower of light, and went into that cloud dome area. I think I may take a break from the storyline to resource gather and upgrade my shields/items after this, as I don’t want to burn through it without doing some mindless exploring. This also feels like a turning point in the story, and I don’t want to get too invested into it without doing some of the side stuff.
So far the combat is still the most entertaining part of the game. I enjoy how there isn’t just one approach to defeating enemies, and I like that the shield is an optional item, as it just seems like an easy button when you’re having trouble figuring out the patterns or useful when you’re just wanting to run through them quickly.
The puzzles are definitely a nice level of difficulty for me: difficult enough to confuse me for a few minutes, but not as hard as to stump me for hours, or if they do, I feel stupid once I solve them for not finding it quicker.
I’m not having the same issues with tedium that other people here are, but maybe it’s because I haven’t gotten far enough into the game for it to be a problem, or that I don’t play enough games with gathering quests in general to aggravate me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 29, 2011, 09:34:32 AM
I’m not having the same issues with tedium that other people here are, but maybe it’s because I haven’t gotten far enough into the game for it to be a problem, or that I don’t play enough games with gathering quests in general to aggravate me.
I'm with you there. Approximately 30 hours in, halfway through the sixth dungeon, I haven't felt anywhere near the aggravation that's been expressed in this thread.
I think there's a little bit of abuse of the term 'filler' going on, in that the word seems to have been redefined to mean 'any time you aren't in a dungeon', a sentiment I very much disagree with. I bet some of you have labelled the lead-up to the fifth dungeon as filler, which is not true, in my view. You visit a new area and make use of an item you recently got, then another new area with a neat sequence that uses motion control in a cool way, then yet another new area that's effectively a mini-dungeon, before getting to the dungeon proper. I found all of these steps fun to play through.
As far as I was aware, filler is the process of lengthening a game without having to design anything. One of those areas has controls unique to this one sequence, and the mini-dungeon has unique puzzles, and they all had new layouts. It's not like there's an absence of design here. To each his own, I suppose - if you don't like it, that's your experience, and it's a shame. But most of the stuff being referred to I wouldn't call filler.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 29, 2011, 01:36:25 PM
What I consider filler is when I play a sequence in the game, and I feel like the game has been wasting a considerable portion of my time (and often when it forces you to run through areas you've already done again). The errands for the water dragon in the forest are by far the best example of this.
I did think the run-up to the 5th dungeon was irritating filler, but the reason why is that I could have skipped large sections of it from the beginning if the game had actually let me explore. But whenever I strayed from the game's linear path, I got a slap on the wrist from Fi and the NPC I was with because I had to do it all in order. And wonder of wonders, the place they wanted me to go turned out to be completely pointless! The place I wanted to go was where I actually had to go all along!
Another example is when you have to fix the robot with an Ancient Flower. That's pure filler if you didn't happen to have one of those on you (which I did) and hadn't used them already in upgrading your gear. It makes you go back to an environment just for the sake of going back there. There's nothing new to discover or new wrinkles to the gameplay. The game just makes you go back there, and this isn't the only time in the game it does that. This game is fond of re-using environments and characters, and it all comes off as spectacularly lazy. It's like Nintendo is afraid to release a 25-hour Zelda with each hour being a new experience so they filled it with all this artificial B.S. that extends the game and makes it overstay its welcome.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: EvilMario on November 29, 2011, 02:15:46 PM
Pacing might have been one issue with the game, but I found the world itself to be the largest set back (even over some of the questionable motion controls). Skyloft is the ultimate definition of a 'hub world', with only three areas below and the sky (unlike the sea in Wind Waker) is very empty. Not to mention that specific portions of the game Pirate Ship felt very empty and unfinished even and the worlds definitely felt like a 'video game level' instead of part of a large world to explore.
I definitely enjoyed the game. Storytelling, mostly because of the colorful and personable characters (even the minor ones) are top notch. But I'd probably rank the title more in the middle of the series, with the overall world design and some motion controls that felt more tacked on because it's on the Wii, and not because it actually makes the gameplay better, hold it back from top tier.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 29, 2011, 02:22:57 PM
The odd thing is that I have yet to encounter any issues with the motion controls, even the harp works fine for me, not to say it is fun to play but the controls are not the issue. I've in fact been impressed by how well the controls are implemented.
I am really enjoying the game, but as I said before I have yet to get to the "reused asset" areas, which may change my mind. But hey I got through Wind Waker's scavenger hunt towards the end of the game fine, along with really having minimal issues with Twilight Princess's "padding".
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 29, 2011, 02:34:16 PM
Just wanted to chime in here and say I picked up the game. I haven't played it yet though since I'm waiting for my tunic in the mail....
Seriously though, EC, let me borrow that sword of yours.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 29, 2011, 03:18:57 PM
Go figure. I must have spent half an hour trying to get the Heart Piece from the "Fun Fun Island" mini-game the other day, and I couldn't do it. I try it today on a whim, and I get it on my 3rd try. I also got the heart piece from the Boss Rush mode, though I still have to go back in and do it again for the Shield. I'm pretty sure I've hit all the Goddess Cubes now as well, as I'm not finding any more by dowsing in the 3 main areas. I still have the Bug Island mini-game to complete to wrap-up the mini-games, too.
For all the unnecessary things you can "dowse" for in this game, it seems bizarre to me that apparently Heart Pieces aren't one of them. Considering I've only found heart pieces in the 1st and 4th dungeons, I have a feeling I'm missing at least 3 in the dungeons I've already done. But I'd rather not have to wander aimlessly in there looking for them if I already have a device that should, in theory, point me to them.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 29, 2011, 03:21:24 PM
I still haven't unlocked Fun Fun Island even though I've known where the stupid wheel is for a long time.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 29, 2011, 03:33:16 PM
I still haven't unlocked Fun Fun Island even though I've known where the stupid wheel is for a long time.
You have to get Scrapper to bring the wheel up to the surface. It is that robot behind the Scrapshop owner. You have to first talk to the headmaster to move along the story a little. Then you have to use your new item on one of the windmills on the sky island. Then talk to Gondo the scrap shop owner. He should ask about an ancient flower and if you give him one he can repair the robot. Then you can find the propeller forone of the windmills and then you can use scrapper to pick up the wheel in the desert to return Fun Fun island to its former glory.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 29, 2011, 03:37:59 PM
I still haven't unlocked Fun Fun Island even though I've known where the stupid wheel is for a long time.
You have to get Scrapper to bring the wheel up to the surface. It is that robot behind the Scrapshop owner. You have to first talk to the headmaster to move along the story a little. Then you have to use your new item on one of the windmills on the sky island. Then talk to Gondo the scrap shop owner. He should ask about an ancient flower and if you give him one he can repair the robot. Then you can find the propeller forone of the windmills and then you can use scrapper to pick up the wheel in the desert to return Fun Fun island to its former glory.
I've done all that... Except I went to get the Wheel before the Windmill and it wouldn't allow me to get Fi to tell Scrapper to do his job. I'll just have to go back again. This is an example of something that frustrates me about this game. Let me use the ability since I have it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on November 29, 2011, 03:40:08 PM
I still haven't unlocked Fun Fun Island even though I've known where the stupid wheel is for a long time.
You have to get Scrapper to bring the wheel up to the surface. It is that robot behind the Scrapshop owner. You have to first talk to the headmaster to move along the story a little. Then you have to use your new item on one of the windmills on the sky island. Then talk to Gondo the scrap shop owner. He should ask about an ancient flower and if you give him one he can repair the robot. Then you can find the propeller forone of the windmills and then you can use scrapper to pick up the wheel in the desert to return Fun Fun island to its former glory.
I've done all that... Except I went to get the Wheel before the Windmill and it wouldn't allow me to get Fi to tell Scrapper to do his job. I'll just have to go back again. This is an example of something that frustrates me about this game. Let me use the ability since I have it.
You have to talk to the Fun Fun Island guy when he has a "thought bubble" over his head to accept the quest to find the lost Wheel. Then you can go down and pick it up.
Yes, once again Xenoblade is the superior game, because you can pick up quest items before you need them. And once again, Xenoblade will get snubbed in Game of the Year awards in favor of Zelda because Reggie was too lazy to release it here.
BTW, is anyone finding the music in this game all that great outside a few tunes like the Ballad of the Goddess? I'm finding the music surprisingly unmemorable, despite the great audio quality from being recorded by a symphony orchestra. I guess that's another thing Xenoblade easily surpasses Zelda in.
I'm starting to think Koji Kondo needs a break from Zelda, because Twilight Princess was much the same way (and I can't think of any memorable tunes from Phantom Hourglass). Maybe we give him a chance to work on some other games while someone else takes a crack at Zelda music?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on November 29, 2011, 03:44:27 PM
I still haven't unlocked Fun Fun Island even though I've known where the stupid wheel is for a long time.
You have to get Scrapper to bring the wheel up to the surface. It is that robot behind the Scrapshop owner. You have to first talk to the headmaster to move along the story a little. Then you have to use your new item on one of the windmills on the sky island. Then talk to Gondo the scrap shop owner. He should ask about an ancient flower and if you give him one he can repair the robot. Then you can find the propeller forone of the windmills and then you can use scrapper to pick up the wheel in the desert to return Fun Fun island to its former glory.
I've done all that... Except I went to get the Wheel before the Windmill and it wouldn't allow me to get Fi to tell Scrapper to do his job. I'll just have to go back again. This is an example of something that frustrates me about this game. Let me use the ability since I have it.
You have to talk to the Fun Fun Island guy when he has a "thought bubble" over his head to accept the quest to find the lost Wheel. Then you can go down and pick it up.
Yes, once again Xenoblade is the superior game, because you can pick up quest items before you need them. And once again, Xenoblade will get snubbed in Game of the Year awards in favor of Zelda because Reggie was too lazy to release it here.
The annoying part about that is that I've been to the island and he has lost his wheel and has moped for a long while. Its like coming across a little girl whose lost here kitten. I can see the kitten. I can touch the Kitten. Now that I want to pick up and return the kitten I can't. They should have left him alone till you could do the quest.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on November 29, 2011, 04:12:33 PM
I think there's a little bit of abuse of the term 'filler' going on, in that the word seems to have been redefined to mean 'any time you aren't in a dungeon', a sentiment I very much disagree with. I bet some of you have labelled the lead-up to the fifth dungeon as filler, which is not true, in my view. You visit a new area and make use of an item you recently got, then another new area with a neat sequence that uses motion control in a cool way, then yet another new area that's effectively a mini-dungeon, before getting to the dungeon proper. I found all of these steps fun to play through.
As far as I was aware, filler is the process of lengthening a game without having to design anything. One of those areas has controls unique to this one sequence, and the mini-dungeon has unique puzzles, and they all had new layouts. It's not like there's an absence of design here. To each his own, I suppose - if you don't like it, that's your experience, and it's a shame. But most of the stuff being referred to I wouldn't call filler.
I think your definition of filler would qualify nothing as filler.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 29, 2011, 07:32:41 PM
I still haven't unlocked Fun Fun Island even though I've known where the stupid wheel is for a long time.
You have to get Scrapper to bring the wheel up to the surface. It is that robot behind the Scrapshop owner. You have to first talk to the headmaster to move along the story a little. Then you have to use your new item on one of the windmills on the sky island. Then talk to Gondo the scrap shop owner. He should ask about an ancient flower and if you give him one he can repair the robot. Then you can find the propeller forone of the windmills and then you can use scrapper to pick up the wheel in the desert to return Fun Fun island to its former glory.
I've done all that... Except I went to get the Wheel before the Windmill and it wouldn't allow me to get Fi to tell Scrapper to do his job. I'll just have to go back again. This is an example of something that frustrates me about this game. Let me use the ability since I have it.
You have to talk to the Fun Fun Island guy when he has a "thought bubble" over his head to accept the quest to find the lost Wheel. Then you can go down and pick it up.
Yes, once again Xenoblade is the superior game, because you can pick up quest items before you need them. And once again, Xenoblade will get snubbed in Game of the Year awards in favor of Zelda because Reggie was too lazy to release it here.
BTW, is anyone finding the music in this game all that great outside a few tunes like the Ballad of the Goddess? I'm finding the music surprisingly unmemorable, despite the great audio quality from being recorded by a symphony orchestra. I guess that's another thing Xenoblade easily surpasses Zelda in.
I'm starting to think Koji Kondo needs a break from Zelda, because Twilight Princess was much the same way (and I can't think of any memorable tunes from Phantom Hourglass). Maybe we give him a chance to work on some other games while someone else takes a crack at Zelda music?
Doubtful, Xenoblade while seemingly a great game isn't getting near the praise Zelda has been getting. Even if it did come out here, I doubt it would have a chance at winning game of the year. Also I have to say I agree with you about the music, while I love Twilight Princess, the music was, just, there, kind of like this game. Koji may be getting close to burn out, and they may need to bring in some new blood to add new life to the music.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on November 29, 2011, 07:37:25 PM
He only has one song in this game. It's the beginning intro.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: FZeroBoyo on November 29, 2011, 11:51:34 PM
Finished it up moments ago.
Sure, there are some minor gripes, but I'm confident this is my Game of the Year.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on November 30, 2011, 02:30:33 AM
I LOVE the music in this game! Hate hate hated it in TP, these are awesome happy tunes!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on November 30, 2011, 03:59:46 AM
I got past it. Now I'm jumping through time to open the worlds most complex door to the mines. I enjoy bopping around Sky World more than the mainland. I wanna do the next gratitude quest!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on November 30, 2011, 04:07:34 AM
I got past it. Now I'm jumping through time to open the worlds most complex door to the mines. I enjoy bopping around Sky World more than the mainland. I wanna do the next gratitude quest!
Yeah I kinda got stuck in the mines before but that was because I didn't use all of Link's abilities with the items.
I actually should start playing again. Been a few days since I played.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on November 30, 2011, 08:36:13 PM
Did anyone else experience freezing issues in the desert?
It happens when I hit one of the time stones, the one that's in the room with some barrels that you bomb open a crack to get into. The transformation scene starts getting all jittery, then the game freezes up when it shows a close up of one of those shell monsters reverting to the past form. Some of the other stones had this slowdown, but this is the only one that freezes up, and it's always at the exact same spot.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 01, 2011, 11:15:01 AM
I did not.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 01, 2011, 11:29:04 AM
Did anyone else experience freezing issues in the desert?
It happens when I hit one of the time stones, the one that's in the room with some barrels that you bomb open a crack to get into. The transformation scene starts getting all jittery, then the game freezes up when it shows a close up of one of those shell monsters reverting to the past form. Some of the other stones had this slowdown, but this is the only one that freezes up, and it's always at the exact same spot.
Oddly enough, this is the *exact* same spot mine froze up on when I mentioned it awhile ago. The room where you activate the lightening bolt part of the combination lock....
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: alegoicoe on December 01, 2011, 12:02:15 PM
My game has not frozen, but i have experienced some slow down when Fi Speaks, it happened in the thunder dragon quest, where you have to get him a fruit.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 01, 2011, 04:03:58 PM
So yeah finished the game and am currently halfway through Hero Mode. Definately up there with Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask as my favorites in the series. Things I loved about it is the motion controls really did improve the combat so that it's way more exciting than any previous game in the series. The overworlds were also the best any 3D Zelda has had. I like that just getting to dungeons is more exciting now the overworld area's are basically dungeons themselves now with puzzles that need to be completed in order to get to the dungeons. A huge step forward from the previous 3D Zelda's where the overworld leading to dungeons was pretty plain, straight forward paths with maybe an obstacle or two blocking the way.
On the issue of the so called fetch-quest, by god is the complaints about these some of the biggest hyperbole there is. Most of the things people are calling fetch-quest are very small sections that when using Dowsing are very short and easy to complete. Plus most of the complaints about reused assests are rather silly when these area's that are reused are usually changed in a way that makes people have to play them in a completly different way. Yes the scenery might be similar but the actual gameplay is completely different.
The only real dissapointment I had with the game was actually the last two bosses at the very end. After a lot of reviews said the final bosses were suppose to be very challanging, they're actually two of the easiest bosses in the whole game. The final boss in particular is a total joke once you learn his weakness and is pretty lame since he basically does the same kind of attack over and over and the second part of the fight barely changes things up unlike every other boss in the game where the second part of the fight completely changes how the boss fights.
This really made me mad since the director of Skyward Sword is Hidemaro Fujibayashi, who did the Oracle games and Minish Cap and those games all had great final bosses. Jesus christ did he drop the ball for the final boss in this game. I was expecting something crazy like Vaati's fight that required players to use all items in the game and have three different forms that were all unique, but instead I got something that's just way too lame compared to what Fujibayashi has done in the past. When compared to previous Zelda final boss fights it's not that bad but when compared to Fujibayashi's other Zelda's and the other bosses in Skyward Sword, it is a big step back.
Of course the fight before the final boss pisses me off just as much since you fight Ghirahim one last time but he's slow as f*ck now and barely does anything, unlike his amazing second fight where he's all over the place and launching energy attacks from all over. This really made me angry since the second fight with Ghirahim is my favorite boss fight in the entire game and one of the best in Zelda history. I was really anticipating the final fight with him since I was expecting the third Ghirahim boss fight to be even better than that since the second fight was a much more intense ramped up version of the first fight. Instead the third fight is actually a downgraded version of the second fight, where he doesn't do anything close to the crazy sh!t he did in the second that made that fight so great.
So yeah, in conclusion Skyward Sword is one of the best Zelda's ever made that while had a few annoying issues (like Fi never shutting up), wasn't anything that stopped me from loving the game. Except for the final two boss fights which still make me scratch my head about what happend after all the other great bosses in the game and compared to what Fujibayashi has done in the past.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on December 01, 2011, 04:36:45 PM
So I've only been able to play a bit to run around Skyloft and you know that feeling...that feeling that overwhelms you with complete confidence of what you are about to endure? Like the beginning of a great date or movie where the beginning just lets you know you're in for a hell of ride. Yeah...I got that. I haven't done much else but run around and swing the sword around like I was a samurai.
Can't wait to play more.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on December 01, 2011, 05:14:09 PM
I'm fighting my way the the mining facility now. I don't like it, too much electricity and quick sand.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 01, 2011, 05:19:00 PM
I'm fighting my way the the mining facility now. I don't like it, too much electricity and quick sand.
I liked for most part but, I don't get why there aren't any of the little guys in there.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: yosh on December 01, 2011, 09:57:28 PM
I just finished the The Sandship dungeon. I have on more dungeon left. I'm pretty disappointed by the game. All of the early 10/10 reviews didn't only made it worse. My hopes were really high after seeing the early scores since it seemed on par if not better than OoT, greatest game period, and then came crashing down. While the game is still enjoyable it's the worst 3D Zelda imo.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on December 01, 2011, 10:26:24 PM
I just finished the The Sandship dungeon. I have on more dungeon left. I'm pretty disappointed by the game. All of the early 10/10 reviews didn't only made it worse. My hopes were really high after seeing the early scores since it seemed on par if not better than OoT, greatest game period, and then came crashing down. While the game is still enjoyable it's the worst 3D Zelda imo.
I couldn't disagree more. I am eating it all up! The setting, the dungeons, bosses, weapons, I love it all!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on December 01, 2011, 11:52:32 PM
I've just talked to the water people and am doing something... fire for a sword? something that i'm forced into even though I've had zero problems beating up the bushes and random snails or whatever the sword is used for. I tried playing the other night but after Fi talked for 2 minutes about something, I wandered into the next area, saw nothing of interest, saved and turned the Wii off. 25 or so hours in and it's just so pointless.
Link to the Past is one of my all time favorite games and there's so little of that game in SS it's amazing how they're even supposed to be part of the same franchise. It's a lot like the original Star Wars movies and the Prequels. Yeah, cosmetically they're similar, and there is a lot more money spent on production, but fundamentally, they're worlds apart. SS is like a zelda mini-game collection. No overworld, no cohesion--just jump around to all these little tasks and have to sit through bad writing and walls of text and repeat. I know some people like this kind of thing but the zelda series used to be something else entirely.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on December 02, 2011, 12:45:53 AM
I haven't done much else but run around and swing the sword around like I was a samurai.
You just made me realize that in this game Link doesn't even get a chance to get an armor... maybe when the next LoZ game for the Wii U is out. I hope.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 02, 2011, 12:50:27 AM
Just finished it. The final Boss infuriated me to no end. Why? Because the damn motion rubbish makes it so painful to do a skyward strike. Does anyone have any success in getting the sword pointing up first time consistently? It's just terrible. Here I am trying to charge my sword with lighting struggling to find the sweet spot. Meanwhile, Demise (Stupid name btw) has charged his and is lunging towards me only to hit me just after I finally get a charge.
Is it just me that has problems charging a strike?
edit: fix tags
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on December 02, 2011, 01:05:43 AM
Raise the sword and turn your wrist inward some what, thats how I get into that "locked" charging position with ease.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on December 02, 2011, 01:18:36 AM
Meanwhile, Demise (Stupid name btw) has charged his and is lunging towards me only to hit me just after I finally get a charge.
You can dodge and charge at the same time. It worked for me after I came to the realization that I had to change my movements because he was doing what you said also to me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 02, 2011, 02:10:30 AM
You can dodge and charge at the same time. It worked for me after I came to the realization that I had to change my movements because he was doing what you said also to me.
Yeah, this is why the final boss became a total joke to me when I figured this out. All you have to do is what til he summons lighting, then raise your sword to get the lighting to charge up your Skyward Strike, then side step his lighting attack and then hit him with your Skyward Strike. When that stuns him just run over and attack, and then when he starts blocking again, move away and repeat. I mean seriously, the first Ghirahim boss fight in the first dungeon put up more of a fight. At least he'd dodge attacks, charge at you, teleport and fire attacks that had to actually be knocked away instead of easily side stepped.
That's my whole problem with Demise. He's only impressive at first when you don't know how your suppose to fight him but as soon as you discover how to actually hurt him, he becomes so easy and boring. I mean, he's the final boss of the game that's built around Motion+, but his fight barely even requires the use of it. The first phase is all about stabbing him which was easily possible on traditional controllers and the second phase is just charging your Skyward Strike which only requires people to hold the Wiimote Up and that's it. In comparison most of the other boss fights, especially the Ghirahim fights, require gamers to constantly be adapting and attacking from different angles which was never possible on traditional controllers. Even when you figure out how to hurt them, they're still really fun because of how interactive the fights are.
I know I'm ranting to much about this but it just blows my mind that after all the other great boss fights that took full advantage of the motion controls to really make the fights more engaging then the previous 3D Zelda's, that the final boss would just be so lame in comparison and feel like he could have easily been thrown into one of the previous 3D Zelda's and the fight would be the same thing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 02, 2011, 02:19:05 AM
I think we should all take some time out of this thread and thank whoever invented spoiler text.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 02, 2011, 06:15:12 AM
I know how to beat him Like I said, I finished the game.
But it was unbearably frustrating because of the aforementioned issue. The whole problem was trying to get the damn game to recognize the fact I was trying to charge a Skyward Strike, not wave my sword around in random directions. Because the control was so imprecise, the time it took me to successfully charge my sword was tripled. Thus resulting in me getting bulldozed or attacked by his strike from afar. Which means I had to try all over again. Which consequently led to much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 02, 2011, 08:59:57 AM
I completed the second dungeon last night. I'm slowly getting the hang of the new controls or at least making the most of it. I like them for everything except sword fighting so far. For aiming, excellent. For flying, also excellent even if I don't particularly like flying to begin with. I can admit that the controls work well. For sword fighting, I started waggling a lot and still getting through the game just fine. When I was actually trying to swing vertically or horizontally, I wouldn't be getting the results I needed so I just started shaking the controller rapidly in every which direction and those Lizalfos were toast. Oddly, once I started playing Skyward Sword more like Twilight Princess, it became easier. Maybe that won't work as I get further into the game but it worked well through and entire dungeon. I found myself just wishing that the sword could be mapped onto button presses. Ironically, for more precision. I'm still getting used to pressing A to use items since I keep pressing B.
I like the Impressionist inspired graphics a lot but I generally hate the character designs. Zelda looks very plain and Link looks like a girl. On an unrelated note, Link sounds especially Japanese in this game. I know his grunts and yells have always been provided by Japanese actors but I can really tell in this game, especially his "falling in lava" whimper. Not a bad thing by any means, just an observation.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 02, 2011, 11:47:19 AM
I think my inability to steamroll through this game is helping my perceptions of it. Ceric was right that I finally ran into my first fit of gamer’s fatigue with this game. I hadn’t had a problem with any of the fetch quests until having to gather the sacred water for the dragon. I really don’t care for the first dungeon location as-is, and having to trek through it the second time wasn’t any more enjoyable, even if it took me a matter of minutes to plow through it. At that point, running through the same area became tedious. Even when I was doing the stealth area I found it entertaining because I basically ran through all of it, collecting the stamina orbs to keep a quick pace while collecting those drops.
With that being said, once I finish this dungeon I’m going to take a break from the game for a bit with the exception of gathering components to upgrade my items. I figure if I ration this game out effectively, I could avoid paying for any more games until January, and I don’t want to play this game so much that I get burnt out on it. I think some (NOTE THAT I SAID SOME!) of the sour grapes in this thread seem like a mix of pie in the sky expectations coupled with marathon runs of the game.
I completed the second dungeon last night. I'm slowly getting the hang of the new controls or at least making the most of it. I like them for everything except sword fighting so far. For aiming, excellent. For flying, also excellent even if I don't particularly like flying to begin with. I can admit that the controls work well. For sword fighting, I started waggling a lot and still getting through the game just fine. When I was actually trying to swing vertically or horizontally, I wouldn't be getting the results I needed so I just started shaking the controller rapidly in every which direction and those Lizalfos were toast. Oddly, once I started playing Skyward Sword more like Twilight Princess, it became easier. Maybe that won't work as I get further into the game but it worked well through and entire dungeon. I found myself just wishing that the sword could be mapped onto button presses. Ironically, for more precision. I'm still getting used to pressing A to use items since I keep pressing B.
You'll run into some enemies that require more precise slashing/poking, but so far where i'm at they're not to a point where it'll completely hinder your ability to move forward in the game.
I like the Impressionist inspired graphics a lot but I generally hate the character designs. Zelda looks very plain and Link looks like a girl.
I felt the same way about Zelda's character design at first, but for some reason her "plainness" has grown on me and I think it's made her character more endearing to me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 02, 2011, 11:54:20 AM
I think my inability to steamroll through this game is helping my perceptions of it. Ceric was right that I finally ran into my first fit of gamer’s fatigue with this game. I hadn’t had a problem with any of the fetch quests until having to gather the sacred water for the dragon. I really don’t care for the first dungeon location as-is, and having to trek through it the second time wasn’t any more enjoyable, even if it took me a matter of minutes to plow through it. At that point, running through the same area became tedious. Even when I was doing the stealth area I found it entertaining because I basically ran through all of it, collecting the stamina orbs to keep a quick pace while collecting those drops.
With that being said, once I finish this dungeon I’m going to take a break from the game for a bit with the exception of gathering components to upgrade my items. I figure if I ration this game out effectively, I could avoid paying for any more games until January, and I don’t want to play this game so much that I get burnt out on it. I think some (NOTE THAT I SAID SOME!) of the sour grapes in this thread seem like a mix of pie in the sky expectations coupled with marathon runs of the game.
I completed the second dungeon last night. I'm slowly getting the hang of the new controls or at least making the most of it. I like them for everything except sword fighting so far. For aiming, excellent. For flying, also excellent even if I don't particularly like flying to begin with. I can admit that the controls work well. For sword fighting, I started waggling a lot and still getting through the game just fine. When I was actually trying to swing vertically or horizontally, I wouldn't be getting the results I needed so I just started shaking the controller rapidly in every which direction and those Lizalfos were toast. Oddly, once I started playing Skyward Sword more like Twilight Princess, it became easier. Maybe that won't work as I get further into the game but it worked well through and entire dungeon. I found myself just wishing that the sword could be mapped onto button presses. Ironically, for more precision. I'm still getting used to pressing A to use items since I keep pressing B.
You'll run into some enemies that require more precise slashing/poking, but so far where i'm at they're not to a point where it'll completely hinder your ability to move forward in the game.
I like the Impressionist inspired graphics a lot but I generally hate the character designs. Zelda looks very plain and Link looks like a girl.
I felt the same way about Zelda's character design at first, but for some reason her "plainness" has grown on me and I think it's made her character more endearing to me.
That's where I hit and I even started the 4th dungeon but getting the Sacred water had soured me so much with other options to play that I haven't picked it back up.
I think Zelda is fine but I don't think she is the most attractive person in Skyloft. Which I actually find sort of refreshing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: yosh on December 02, 2011, 02:37:36 PM
I'm glad that we can actually be critical of this game here over at IGN if you say anything bad about the game the same 10 people who lurk the boards all day and have been doing so for years will just spew fanboyism at you and try to make it seem as if something is wrong with you. I love Nintendo and their games, but to act like everything they do or make is perfect is just crazy. It also doesn't help that the board Mod is in their fanboy group with them. Anyways enough with the IGN rant.
I just got all three flames and have about a few hours until I complete the game and these are my pro's and cons so far
Pros - Combat, I wouldn't mind if they went back to a controller, but I really like the Wii Mote combat - Upgrade system, it's nice to see it included even though I didn't go out of my way to get any materials - Art style was executed very nicely - Origin story - Characters, they have way more personality now especially the baddy, Ghirahim, you can sense the evil oozing out of him. - Music, I thought that it was some of the best in the series
Cons - Difficulty, the game is way too easy and I only died twice. Once was from my stupidity. - Fi, she's annoying as **** and contributes to the game being way too easy - Linear, the game is as straightforward as possible. There is no exploring to be done as everything is literally on your path - Art style, even though it was executed professionally I don't like it. It takes away from the despair the setting is trying to create and when I was fighting that Leviathan boss I wanted something like in God of War 3 not some octopus that I'd see on Nickelodeon. - PuzZelda, there is no exploration just puzzles. To me Zelda has always been a balance between the two, but now its all puzzles like the DS Zelda games. It's like I'm sorry that I don't walk around with my DS strapped to my wrist 24/7 I like to do other things than solve puzzles all damn day. - Setting/characters looks, it just all felt way too Nickelodeon for me. From Leviathan boss fight to those robot things in the desert.
Like I said in my previous post the game is still enjoyable even though it seems like a chore to play now. The game definitely suffered from all of the hype. Perfect 10 reviews, Reggie and Nintendo saying best Zelda game ever and then topping that off with saying best Nintendo game ever.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 02, 2011, 02:54:29 PM
With all that said I do think this game lays a nice framework for a Zelda 2 remake... <.< >,>
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 02, 2011, 02:56:54 PM
For those of you who don't like the motion controls, would this game be more forgiving if the sword motions and item control were mapped to a 2nd analog stick? (example: for sword fighting, left to right analog control movement for left to right slash, up to down analog control movement for up to down slash, push-in analog stick to do a jab motion, etc)
I hope they maintain this more detailed sword play in future iterations somehow, instead of just mashing an "A" button when the opening comes.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: yosh on December 02, 2011, 03:05:41 PM
For those of you who don't like the motion controls, would this game be more forgiving if the sword motions and item control were mapped to a 2nd analog stick? (example: for sword fighting, left to right analog control movement for left to right slash, up to down analog control movement for up to down slash, push-in analog stick to do a jab motion, etc)
I hope they maintain this more detailed sword play in future iterations somehow, instead of just mashing an "A" button when the opening comes.
That's actually a really good idea and should be a secondary option
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 02, 2011, 03:10:54 PM
For those of you who don't like the motion controls, would this game be more forgiving if the sword motions and item control were mapped to a 2nd analog stick? (example: for sword fighting, left to right analog control movement for left to right slash, up to down analog control movement for up to down slash, push-in analog stick to do a jab motion, etc)
I hope they maintain this more detailed sword play in future iterations somehow, instead of just mashing an "A" button when the opening comes.
Ironically that is exactly what Skylanders does with the motion controls. If it's a waggle, throw, or key insert (all actions you do in the Wii version) the PS3 version translates those to the right analog. Though some of those you could have easily done with the six axis.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: alegoicoe on December 02, 2011, 11:12:26 PM
i just beat the game today after 38 hours, i enjoyed the game alot but am ready to move forward to a new zelda experience that does not involve motion controls or sd graphics.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThePerm on December 03, 2011, 01:32:43 AM
Yeah Yosh they did that with Twilight Princess, one of the big complains among the staff of Twilight Princess was they didn't WANT to maintain a constant realistic style because it constrained them. A balance was struck between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess in style. The Zelda staff like to make creepy Tingle people who dance around in green leotards, hang from balloons and spread confetti. If you don't like that stuff then you are an unusual Zelda fan.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on December 03, 2011, 03:47:49 AM
Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, Nickelodeon!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 03, 2011, 04:04:51 AM
Yeah Yosh they did that with Twilight Princess, one of the big complains among the staff of Twilight Princess was they didn't WANT to maintain a constant realistic style because it constrained them. A balance was struck between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess in style. The Zelda staff like to make creepy Tingle people who dance around in green leotards, hang from balloons and spread confetti. If you don't like that stuff then you are an unusual Zelda fan.
I feel like the only reason why they didn't go with a darker more realistic style is because the console couldn't handle it. If that Wii U tech demo means anything then it's obvious that they want to go back to that style since the hardware won't severely limit them.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on December 03, 2011, 01:06:32 PM
Wind Waker was Nick Jr?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on December 03, 2011, 01:09:16 PM
I don't see how the style is a bad thing. Some of my favorite cartoons of all time came from Nick. Avatar, Rocko's Modern Life, Doug, Catdog, Angry Beavers, Rugrats, Ahhh! Real Monsters, and so on and so forth.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on December 03, 2011, 02:22:54 PM
You get a goofy squid boss, but an epic black scaled giant head with feet, an awesome pirate, cool scorpions and so on. As far as I can tell the epic scary looking monsters far out weigh the more "nick toon" designs.
Besides TP had plenty of nasty looking monsters, I like a little variety.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 03, 2011, 08:55:25 PM
If you want a realistic adventure game, go play Uncharted or something.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on December 04, 2011, 12:07:00 AM
That spider in the Wii U demo was dark and freaky.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sarail on December 04, 2011, 12:29:04 AM
If you want a realistic adventure game, go play Uncharted or something.
Funny you say that, Mop... because after playing my 60 hours through Skyward Sword, I can definitely say Nintendo put a little Uncharted in to my Zelda. ;)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on December 04, 2011, 04:20:13 PM
The enemies in this game are sapping my will to play. I don't know what it is, but I can't get the motion controls to work right half the time. The weird thing is, I took the game over to my cousin's house and showed it to him for a few hours and both of us were doing fine with the motion controls.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 04, 2011, 04:29:41 PM
ShyGuy, I suggest checking to see if there are stray sources of IR light in the room that you're playing. I've noticed that the game uses the sensor bar to determine which way is forward, and if the Wiimote sees other IR light, it will interpret that as the sensor and reset Link to face forward in that direction. I discovered this when playing on a sunny day and Link kept resetting every time the Wiimote faced the window, causing my swings to be misinterpreted.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on December 04, 2011, 04:33:10 PM
You're probably right, but I don't know why these light problems didn't screw me up playing Red Steel 2.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on December 04, 2011, 04:54:11 PM
I think it's because the IR in this game is used to Calibrate the WM+. On the flipside, Red Steel 2 didn't use the IR for that function.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 04, 2011, 08:49:06 PM
Have to say I kind of agree with some of the concerns regarding the game. I am not a fan of how blatantly they have reused assets, especially having to go back into old dungeons. It isn't fun, and it feels like padding, just for the sake of padding. I'm finding it a chore now to play the game, especially since I have (at least) two more silent realms to do as well. While the first one wasn't hard, per say, I hated it.
I'll keep on playing, but it is sad that I have to force myself too. The game has so many good things going for it, but the flaws are way too big to overlook. Perhaps my opinion will change as I progress, but who knows.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 04, 2011, 09:49:48 PM
I failed the first Silent Realm twice due to poor planning. I was surrounded by the ring of that forbidden water stuff the first time and I was too far away from the exit the second. Nintendo is padding the game but they don't need to. If you took the Silent Realm out, the game would still be plenty lengthy. Reentering dungeons is almost a good idea. If you could open up a new path or section in a dungeon later, that would be cool, but the problem is that people would keep trying to open that path with the current items and that effectively slows the game down since revisiting dungeons is something we rarely did in previous installments. I suppose having Robot Fi tell you that you can't proceed that way could work.
I almost stopped playing a few times. It's not terrible though admittedly, I'm partially forcing myself to keep going because I spent a lot of money on the game and I want my money's worth. I'm not even using the gold Wii Remote so I kind of feel like that was a waste. Looking back months/years from now, I'll probably appreciate it more.
I think the biggest problem with the game is that the Zelda team seems torn between adhering to tradition and blowing the series wide open. The cutscenes are getting longer and more elaborate but there's no voice acting. There are robots and minecarts now but the world has always been sort of grounded in a swords and scorcery setting. It's like Nintendo wants to redefine the series but can't bring themselves to. They can't commit to it in a meaningful way because it wouldn't be Zelda which I think is silly. They can and should. It's called progress. There are definitely times in the 15 hours or so I've been playing where I felt that the game would be better if it wasn't trying so hard to be a Zelda game. For example, Robot Fi follows the companion/assistant tradition of Navi, Tatl, and Midna but she fucking sucks.
Additionally, there are just some bad ideas. The Silent Realm is a bad idea. The way the harp works is a bad idea. All of the nothing in the sky is a bad idea. The upgrade system is a good idea; the way it works is a bad idea. I have to catch birds in a net just to upgrade my shield. How the **** does that make sense? I don't remember another Zelda game having this many issues. To its credit, Skyward Sword is flawed but still moderately enjoyable. Spirit Tracks was flawed and boring. It's the only modern Zelda game that I literally couldn't bring myself to finish. I will most definitely finish Skyward Sword even if I lack the same drive as I had with the older games.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 04, 2011, 10:17:46 PM
Well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who was somewhat bored and frustrated by this game. At least we can all get heckled by the loyalist brigade together. ;)
The last time I played the game, I was doing my usual Zelda End Game routine where I go back and methodically make sure I have everything you can have to 100% the game, but I just don't feel the drive on this game. I've gone back to playing the substantially less-stable but more fulfilling Skyrim. I may save finishing Zelda until I've finished Skyrim and Xenoblade, and considering Zelda is my favorite Nintendo franchise that says something about the level of engagement this game offers.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Retro Deckades on December 05, 2011, 12:05:26 AM
I've put about 15 hours into this game, and up until now, I think it's been a great experience overall. However, it seems that I have yet to reach many of the areas where people have concerns (I'm only in the third dungeon). I'm really eager to see what comes next, and am hoping that I won't be disappointed. I suppose time will tell.
As far as having any issues with the game, nothing has really pushed me to the point of frustration. I thought the flight controls were terrible at first, but I picked them up rather quickly and haven't had a problem with the since. There have only been one or two instances where the calibration has been thrown off, and as far as any difficulty wielding the sword, my only problem has been the seemingly oversensitve nunchuk. It seems that the slightest movement of the nunchuk while targeting an enemy will cause Link to do his spin attack. It's only posed a significant problem while trying to stab enemies, however.
Other than those tiny gripes, I've been completely enthralled with the game so far. I just want to keep playing it. Hopefully, as I put more time into it, that won't change.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: yosh on December 05, 2011, 12:22:19 AM
To all those who seem to be bored by the game just chug through it because the final 5 hours especially the ending outweigh all of that. I was in the same boat as you guys and then when I finally beat it it was like damn.
Also I thought the controls were excellent. Never had much of a prob except for the nunchuk shake to bring the shield up.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on December 05, 2011, 03:29:36 AM
Well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who was somewhat bored and frustrated by this game. At least we can all get heckled by the loyalist brigade together. ;)
Right, because there's no way somebody could like this game because they're actually enjoying it - everybody who says that must be blind and oblivious to the game in front of them...
If you didn't have fun, that's fine. It would be axiomatically impossible for me to tell you that you're wrong. Equally though, that doesn't mean that it's inconceivable that others could have fun with it. I'm into this series because of the puzzles, and I feel like Skyward Sword brought that aspect of the franchise to the forefront, with even sword fights feeling kind of like puzzles in themselves, so I had a really great time with the game. And apparently, we have higher tolerances for different things. From what I've read, you have an insane tolerance for grinding in traditional JRPGs, while with this game, it seems I am more okay with re-traversal. Different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 05, 2011, 03:38:47 AM
...
I just finished the third Silent Realm...
... and I liked it. I mean, if the whole game was just Silent Realm after Silent Realm, it'd be pretty lame... but as a mini-side quest which takes, what, ten minutes (if that)? It's fun. But then, I liked the similar aspect in Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks... and I think I was alone there.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 05, 2011, 03:45:13 AM
Well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who was somewhat bored and frustrated by this game. At least we can all get heckled by the loyalist brigade together. ;)
Right, because there's no way somebody could like this game because they're actually enjoying it - everybody who says that must be blind and oblivious to the game in front of them...
If you didn't have fun, that's fine. It would be axiomatically impossible for me to tell you that you're wrong. Equally though, that doesn't mean that it's inconceivable that others could have fun with it. I'm into this series because of the puzzles, and I feel like Skyward Sword brought that aspect of the franchise to the forefront, with even sword fights feeling kind of like puzzles in themselves, so I had a really great time with the game. And apparently, we have higher tolerances for different things.
Dude, chill the **** out. Do you not see the winking face icon there indicating I was joking, that you weren't meant to take that seriously?
Quote
From what I've read, you have an insane tolerance for grinding in traditional JRPGs, while with this game, it seems I am more okay with re-traversal. Different strokes for different folks.
Whaaaah? :Q Have you never read a single thing I've ever written in my impressions on JRPGs? I complain about tedious grinding in JRPGs all the time. I must have written at least a page of text about that on Resonance of Fate alone last year. Part of my gushing over Xenoblade in that game's topic is that grinding and backtracking are two of the things made very quick and manageable. I despise grinding, especially when it's mandatory. I've made no secret of that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on December 05, 2011, 04:12:07 AM
Dude, chill the **** out. Do you not see the winking face icon there indicating I was joking, that you weren't meant to take that seriously?
I'm sorry. It's difficult to interpret sarcasm when it's not being spoken out loud. I'm not a fan of zealotry of a games company, nor am I a fan of the other extreme. People need to be able to have civilised conversations. But I see now that you were joking.
Quote
Whaaaah? :Q Have you never read a single thing I've ever written in my impressions on JRPGs? I complain about tedious grinding in JRPGs all the time. I must have written at least a page of text about that on Resonance of Fate alone last year. Part of my gushing over Xenoblade in that game's topic is that grinding and backtracking are two of the things made very quick and manageable. I despise grinding, especially when it's mandatory. I've made no secret of that.
Perhaps a misinterpretation on my part. I know you as somebody who collects Platinum trophies on PS3 games, and from what I've heard, you need to do some fairly egregious things to get a lot of those. As I recall, when you reviewed the aforementioned Resonance of Fate, even though you said you found it terribly dull, you said you had played it twice for trophies. I couldn't imagine how anybody could do that, unless they've got a ridiculous tolerance for grinding.
Regardless... let's get back on track. I'm always intrigued when people don't like games that I do like, and vice versa, so please continue.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 05, 2011, 06:09:28 AM
Well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who was somewhat bored and frustrated by this game. At least we can all get heckled by the loyalist brigade together. ;)
Right, because there's no way somebody could like this game because they're actually enjoying it - everybody who says that must be blind and oblivious to the game in front of them...
If you didn't have fun, that's fine. It would be axiomatically impossible for me to tell you that you're wrong. Equally though, that doesn't mean that it's inconceivable that others could have fun with it. I'm into this series because of the puzzles, and I feel like Skyward Sword brought that aspect of the franchise to the forefront, with even sword fights feeling kind of like puzzles in themselves, so I had a really great time with the game. And apparently, we have higher tolerances for different things. From what I've read, you have an insane tolerance for grinding in traditional JRPGs, while with this game, it seems I am more okay with re-traversal. Different strokes for different folks.
I do like the puzzles in the game, I feel they are some of the better ones in the Zelda series. I'm also, as I've said before, a big fan of the controls. It is just that the issues I mentioned in my previous post are making it hard for me to go through the game. Will I finish the game? Yes, more then likely, I do like the story, and the game has some very good things going for it, I just wish the over use of assets and silent realm were not apart of the experience.
Who knows, maybe I'll get to a point where I will encounter a moment that will define the game for me in an extremely positive light like in Wind Waker When you first visit the castle Hyrule undersea, that was truly a great gaming moment but Wind Waker at least didn't have anything that made me want to stop playing, beyond the ridiculous scavenger hunt.
Quote
Regardless... let's get back on track. I'm always intrigued when people don't like games that I do like, and vice versa, so please continue.
With Twilight Princess being my favorite 3D Zelda, I know the feeling!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 05, 2011, 07:23:54 AM
I find the Silent Realm that I've done fun. I actually don't mind there inclusion. I liked the time aspect and there forgiving enough. Now I don't like the one Dungeon back tracking I've done so far. Plus anything to do with the harp. I rather it just be an item with a button like a remote to open things. Thats what it amounts to. I can't really play anything with it. Thinking on it besides the Silent Realm and the Tree I really haven't like anything between the 3rd - 4th Dungeon.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on December 05, 2011, 10:54:04 AM
Am I the only one that plays this standing up? Granted I haven't left Skyloft yet (atm, I'm trying to finish up Arkham City), but I can't help it. I have yet to have the controls **** up once.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 05, 2011, 11:04:10 AM
Perhaps a misinterpretation on my part. I know you as somebody who collects Platinum trophies on PS3 games, and from what I've heard, you need to do some fairly egregious things to get a lot of those. As I recall, when you reviewed the aforementioned Resonance of Fate, even though you said you found it terribly dull, you said you had played it twice for trophies. I couldn't imagine how anybody could do that, unless they've got a ridiculous tolerance for grinding.
You're confusing my willingness to OCD mash a few buttons while I'm simultaneously watching a TV show or listening to a podcast with "tolerating" grinding. :cool;
As for Resonance of Fate, I played that sucker on New Game + for the Platinum because I could beat it in 5 hours skipping all the tedious sidequests that padded my first playthrough to well over 100 hours. When a game is that bad (and Resonance of Fate is one of the worst games I've ever played), I like walking away from the experience knowing I thoroughly "beat it" if that experience is reasonably attainable. Then there are games like Dark Void, which are so terrible and so terribly programmed that I went for the Platinum just because I wanted to see if it was possible since I refuse to believe that Sony's certification process on that game was very thorough.
But yeah, podcasts and TV shows are what get me through grinding sections and games with little or repetitive audio (like 100+ hour RPGs), so I only have to somewhat pay attention to what's on-screen.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 05, 2011, 02:45:15 PM
Am I the only one that plays this standing up? Granted I haven't left Skyloft yet (atm, I'm trying to finish up Arkham City), but I can't help it. I have yet to have the controls **** up once.
I sit straight up, but don't stand, no real issues.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on December 05, 2011, 03:34:17 PM
I've tried it sitting or standing, seems about the same for me. The puzzles are very good, and I like how the overworld blends right into the dungeon. Item discovery hasn't been too predictable like other Zelda games either.
Money and health seem harder to come by, and the upgrade system with resources is a new twist. In some ways I like it better than TP and in others I don't.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Sessha on December 05, 2011, 06:41:13 PM
I usually sit, I haven't had any problems with the controls doing it that way. I do like the seamless interaction of overworld and dungeon, I was surprised about all the negative reaction I've heard on the board starting a few pages back, not that I don't think it's not warranted.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 05, 2011, 07:31:29 PM
I usually sit, I haven't had any problems with the controls doing it that way. I do like the seamless interaction of overworld and dungeon, I was surprised about all the negative reaction I've heard on the board starting a few pages back, not that I don't think it's not warranted.
Triple-negatives for the win!
So you DON'T think the criticism is warranted? :confused;
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 05, 2011, 08:13:45 PM
He DOES think it's NOT warranted?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 06, 2011, 04:50:38 PM
OK, folks, you have fair warning now: Skyward Sword has a game-ending glitch (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/12/skyward-sword-bug/) that is not entirely out of the realm of possibility for people to hit. Here's the least-spoilerish version: towards the end of the game, you will be sent out to find components of a song from the 3 lands you've already completed (twice): forest, volcanic, and desert. If you pick the desert area first and talk to a specific NPC before and after completing the quest there, you will be locked out of getting the song components from the other two areas. So don't do that.
If you think this bug is low user-path, consider that the NPC you can't talk to is sitting in your path both before and after you reach the area that contains this quest. Chances are you're going to talk to him twice if you pick that area first.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 06, 2011, 05:03:37 PM
OK, folks, you have fair warning now: Skyward Sword has a game-ending glitch (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/12/skyward-sword-bug/) that is not entirely out of the realm of possibility for people to hit. Here's the least-spoilerish version: towards the end of the game, you will be sent out to find components of a song from the 3 lands you've already completed (twice): forest, volcanic, and desert. If you pick the desert area first and talk to a specific NPC before and after completing the quest there, you will be locked out of getting the song components from the other two areas. So don't do that.
If you think this bug is low user-path, consider that the NPC you can't talk to is sitting in your path both before and after you reach the area that contains this quest. Chances are you're going to talk to him twice if you pick that area first.
I just read that. if you have listened to RFN, then this news is very timely given the heated debate they had about glitches and the ability to patch games.
I'm a bit confused though, weren't you told to go to the forest first? I mean, I understand that people like to play their own way, but I thought you were given a specific order for these three areas.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 06, 2011, 05:10:20 PM
I'm a bit confused though, weren't you told to go to the forest first? I mean, I understand that people like to play their own way, but I thought you were given a specific order for these three areas.
I don't remember the game telling me to go to the Forest first. I went there first simply because I already knew where to go for that quest because I'd already met the necessary character. Little did I know the horror of a forced mini-game that awaited me there. *shudder*
I can see why people might want to tackle the areas out of the expected order by that point, though. By then, you've already run through these areas twice with very nearly the same order both times.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 06, 2011, 09:13:55 PM
I found another glitch in the game, although this one won't hinder progress and is actually kind of funny. I had chucked a couple of bombs at those wooden towers that you can tip over, and one of them blew up and knocked the tower over onto the other bomb I had tossed. When it landed on it, Link yelled, the screen went black, and then he woke up nearby - the same thing that happens if the tower falls on him. So don't let things fall on bombs, or Link will be crushed!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 06, 2011, 09:26:51 PM
I'm a bit confused though, weren't you told to go to the forest first? I mean, I understand that people like to play their own way, but I thought you were given a specific order for these three areas.
I don't remember the game telling me to go to the Forest first. I went there first simply because I already knew where to go for that quest because I'd already met the necessary character. Little did I know the horror of a forced mini-game that awaited me there. *shudder*
If you are referring too fighting the imprisoned for the 3rd time, I hear you. I hear you loud and clear.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 06, 2011, 09:30:57 PM
I'm a bit confused though, weren't you told to go to the forest first? I mean, I understand that people like to play their own way, but I thought you were given a specific order for these three areas.
I don't remember the game telling me to go to the Forest first. I went there first simply because I already knew where to go for that quest because I'd already met the necessary character. Little did I know the horror of a forced mini-game that awaited me there. *shudder*
If you are referring too fighting the imprisoned for the 3rd time, I hear you. I hear you loud and clear.
Oh nooooooo. I was referring to the even worse forced mini-game that followed that one. ;)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 06, 2011, 09:33:21 PM
If the mini-game you're talking about is when the forest is flooded with water and you have to swim around collecting musical notes, I agree that part was boring. It's the first time so far that I felt like I had to force myself to complete a section.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 06, 2011, 09:53:58 PM
I didn't find it too bad. I certainly don't think it was necessary, but it didn't hurt the game for me. I wasn't swimming around for an hour looking for things which would have driven me insane.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 06, 2011, 09:56:23 PM
I didn't find it too bad. I certainly don't think it was necessary, but it didn't hurt the game for me. I wasn't swimming around for an hour looking for things which would have driven me insane.
Besides that whole scenario being completely pointless and worthy of an N64 Rare game, my other big issue with it is that the swimming in this game is terrible. Using the pointer to steer your character around works fine when you only need to make broad movements. But as soon as you need to make tight turns or steep dives, the controls just completely spaz-out. There was a particular alcove in the Cistern dungeon that really annoyed me with that, since you had to make a sharp dive in shallow water.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 06, 2011, 10:10:30 PM
My issue with it is that, well, it isn't a mini-game. It was a waste of potential. It could have been interesting if it were some kind of mini-game where you have to swim through hoops in the water or something like that, but nope. Instead, it's just randomly swimming around until you discover the arbitrary places the notes are hidden, with no indications of where they are until you've got about three left.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 06, 2011, 10:15:31 PM
My issue with it is that, well, it isn't a mini-game. It was a waste of potential. It could have been interesting if it were some kind of mini-game where you have to swim through hoops in the water or something like that, but nope. Instead, it's just randomly swimming around until you discover the arbitrary places the notes are hidden, with no indications of where they are until you've got about three left.
Indeed, it's not a completely accurate term, but it's the best one I could think up for a section of the game that to the rest of the game is about as logical as one of Family Guy's cutaway gags.
Important NPC: "Well, Link, I have this song to teach you!" Link: "This is like that the time when I was swimming underwater for no real reason collecting music notes!"
*cut to really boring, tedious underwater collectathon.*
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: yosh on December 06, 2011, 11:08:34 PM
I've tried it sitting or standing, seems about the same for me. The puzzles are very good, and I like how the overworld blends right into the dungeon. Item discovery hasn't been too predictable like other Zelda games either.
Money and health seem harder to come by, and the upgrade system with resources is a new twist. In some ways I like it better than TP and in others I don't.
When you say item discovery are you talking about the quest related items like bow or heart pieces and goddess cubes / things from them. If it's the second then you must be playing a different game than the one that I beat. I collected all of the heart pieces, goddess cubes, and bottles easily without looking at a guide or forums for the locations.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 07, 2011, 07:41:00 AM
I'm a bit confused though, weren't you told to go to the forest first? I mean, I understand that people like to play their own way, but I thought you were given a specific order for these three areas.
I don't remember the game telling me to go to the Forest first. I went there first simply because I already knew where to go for that quest because I'd already met the necessary character. Little did I know the horror of a forced mini-game that awaited me there. *shudder*
I think you may be talking about a part later in the game. I mistook the glitch coming from the order you collect the flames for your sword, and I'm thinking maybe you're talking about something later..
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 09, 2011, 07:29:00 AM
I finished the Ancient Cistern last night then putzed around Skyloft doing quests because I'm dreading the next Silent Realm. I'm 1 more Monster Horn away from getting the best shield I can get in the game at this point though I rarely use the shield anyway. I would have played more but I wanted to watch something while eating dinner and I started 30 Rock and was hooked. Then, I heard about the Chris Paul non-trade and so I was distracted from advancing any further in the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 10, 2011, 12:02:38 PM
I finally opened Zelda yesterday.
Is it just me or is the aliasing in this game sort of distracting? There are jaggies all over the place and they are HUGE. Something like that has never bothered me until this game as I've never really noticed it until this game.
Don't know if this has been brought up before because I've been avoiding this thread like it has airborne ebola.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 10, 2011, 03:52:46 PM
I don't recall anything like that. The only thing I've noticed is that objects in the distance can look blurry, but I think that's a deliberate graphical effect.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on December 10, 2011, 07:27:34 PM
Is it just me or is the aliasing in this game sort of distracting? There are jaggies all over the place and they are HUGE. Something like that has never bothered me until this game as I've never really noticed it until this game.
Don't know if this has been brought up before because I've been avoiding this thread like it has airborne ebola.
Thanks to the random questions thread I know exactly what aliasing is now. And yes, just like TP I have come to accept it. My only graphical complaints is regarding this and that I wish it was as smooth as Mario Galaxy. Beyond that I love the look.
Swimming is also lame, it's just precise or quick enough for turning. I once swam around a an amber relic like 5 times trying to get it before I realized how to stop and aim Link. Shouldn't be that way though.
Beyond that I am digging everything!!!! Including the pumpkin soup eating boss! Nice memories of Links Awakening!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 11, 2011, 06:50:50 AM
So, I finished the game tonight (this morning? ...need sleep...)
Total play time... 353:51.
Hey Nintendo - when I pull up the map or menu and leave it sitting there long enough for the remote to time out, can you stop the timer for me?
Geesh.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: marty on December 11, 2011, 12:01:31 PM
just did the 2nd silent realm.
I keep expecting things to get better and they don't.
I can't believe how badly pointer controls were messed up. They worked fine in every other game. Shooting stuff in TP was really fun. I don't know why they changed it and then decided that I should have to use the broken controls for flying, swimming, and aiming.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 11, 2011, 12:53:51 PM
So, I finished the game tonight (this morning? ...need sleep...)
Total play time... 353:51.
Hey Nintendo - when I pull up the map or menu and leave it sitting there long enough for the remote to time out, can you stop the timer for me?
Geesh.
Why don't you just hit the home button? That's what I do.
Check your play time... according to folks on GameFAQs, the timer still clicks when the Home menu is accessed.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 11, 2011, 02:05:45 PM
No it doesn't, at least not for me. I'm just over 30 hours and right outside of the 3rd silent realm. I've been leaving the game on for some time to avoid the game constantly doing that thing where it thinks I've found something for the first time ever.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on December 11, 2011, 03:22:57 PM
I keep expecting things to get better and they don't.
I can't believe how badly pointer controls were messed up. They worked fine in every other game. Shooting stuff in TP was really fun. I don't know why they changed it and then decided that I should have to use the broken controls for flying, swimming, and aiming.
Not being rude but I don't think you know how to play. It's not using the pointing mechanics from TP or FPSs. If you are like me and like to be lazy with the wiimote and let it hang anywhere, just be sure pick your item, point at the screen and immediately press down on the d-pad. The moment you figure that out it will work like a dream. It's actually much more responsive than the slight lag of just pointing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on December 11, 2011, 09:07:37 PM
I've been leaving the game on for some time to avoid the game constantly doing that thing where it thinks I've found something for the first time ever.
Someone should use that to fill in one of the sections in the Skyward Sword survey for Club Nintendo.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 11, 2011, 11:01:05 PM
And when you get an item out of a chest, it's cool that the game tells me about it, but I don't need to see it go up by one on my item screen. That part should be cut out as well.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 11, 2011, 11:44:24 PM
I was greatly annoyed by the mini games. When I got done playing, it would have been nice if the NPC just said "Hey, you wanna play again?", then we played again. Instead, we had to go through the entire speech every single time. Blah.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on December 12, 2011, 12:20:47 AM
This game is starting to get on my nerves and i haven't even played it yet :|
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 12, 2011, 05:07:14 AM
I fell asleep during the intro portion 3 times.... 40 minutes spent in the dormitories(including nap time)... then eventually making my way outside.
But then I spent 3 hours running around do a whole lot of nothing other than exploring. 2 of that on the bird. Fun stuff.
Now I think I'm at 6 or 7 hrs in and just finished the 1st temple. I'm really taking my time with this one.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 12, 2011, 07:30:08 AM
I just finished the 5th dungeon and got tired of playing. I'm about 30 hours in. Same problem as Twilight Princess. The game is too long and there's a lot of filler. There's a whole section where you're looking for the dungeon and you make a stop at a building where you do nothing except play a mini-game then fight a boss you fought earlier. Then, Robot Fi is like, "I've determined that there are no more things here. We should go now." What the **** was the point of that? I'm having trouble getting through the game. I wish Nintendo would spend significantly less development time making a shorter, tighter game. Zelda wasn't always about collecting nick-nacks. They need to go back to focusing on exploration and adventure. I don't need a 70 hour game to feel like I explored a fictional world.
And Jesus Christ on a crutch, the character and boss designs are awful in this game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2011, 10:41:23 AM
I've made it to the dungeon where you get the triforce. I'm liking the mechanics of this dungeon so far, even though portions of the level are basically re-treads of the prior dungeons. It's been acceptable just because it's just samplings of the different elements, and the inclusion of the moving dungeon rooms makes it entertaining as well.
I think most of the complaints about the game so far are valid, it's just a matter of how tolerant you are of those issues, and how much they ruin the experience of the game.
One main issue I will contend with is the complaining about the silent realm. Those were some of the most fun parts of the game to me, as it basically boiled down to a time-trial, so even if you don't like them, they're usually over quick enough to where you don't have to endure them too long.
What made me stop playing Twilight Princess were the Wolf sections where you were collecting those sun drops or whatever they were called because I would have every one of them except for one, and could never find the damn thing...they made them a bit easier to find in this game and inserted a few more elements (time/stealth), which made it a lot more fun for me.
I should really stop at some point to search for upgrades, as I feel like i'm not far from the end of the game, and I'd really like to devote some time to beefing up my items before reaching the end boss.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 12, 2011, 12:17:33 PM
One main issue I will contend with is the complaining about the silent realm. Those were some of the most fun parts of the game to me, as it basically boiled down to a time-trial, so even if you don't like them, they're usually over quick enough to where you don't have to endure them too long.
I find it odd for a game with the word "sword" in the title to have several section were they take it away from you and leave you completely defenseless. You don't get to fight the coolest looking enemies in the game.
And I'm just so tired of collecting **** in games. It's not creative or especially fun. Zelda games are getting more and more annoying with this. If Nintendo nixed all of the filler collect-a-thons, Skyward Sword would probably still be a 40 hour game. In fact, they could stand to cut a few of the dungeons because they weren't terribly interesting. Even at 40 hours, the game is probably too long.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2011, 12:33:54 PM
One main issue I will contend with is the complaining about the silent realm. Those were some of the most fun parts of the game to me, as it basically boiled down to a time-trial, so even if you don't like them, they're usually over quick enough to where you don't have to endure them too long.
I find it odd for a game with the word "sword" in the title to have several section were they take it away from you and leave you completely defenseless. You don't get to fight the coolest looking enemies in the game.
And I'm just so tired of collecting **** in games. It's not creative or especially fun. Zelda games are getting more and more annoying with this. If Nintendo nixed all of he filler collect-a-thons, Skyward Sword would probably still be a 40 hour game. In fact, they could stand to cut a few of the dungeons because they weren't terribly interesting. Even at 40 hours, the game is probably too long.
Note the "to me" after every sentence in that quote :).
Also, I think that even if you don't enjoy the silent realm parts, they're over so quickly that it should be a small complaint. There are more offensive issues with the game than the silent realm, such as only having three different land masses on the ground. I don't care if the forest is underwater this time, or if the volcano has erupted, or if there's a new portion of the mines, it still represents the same area/mechanics, and it's lousy that they couldn't have given more areas to explore..
Again, I suppose it's dependent on your tolerance level for these things, and since I haven't played many new games this year, I imagine I find the silent realm and other grievances less offensive than most.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 12, 2011, 01:38:59 PM
One main issue I will contend with is the complaining about the silent realm. Those were some of the most fun parts of the game to me, as it basically boiled down to a time-trial, so even if you don't like them, they're usually over quick enough to where you don't have to endure them too long.
I find it odd for a game with the word "sword" in the title to have several section were they take it away from you and leave you completely defenseless. You don't get to fight the coolest looking enemies in the game.
And I'm just so tired of collecting **** in games. It's not creative or especially fun. Zelda games are getting more and more annoying with this. If Nintendo nixed all of he filler collect-a-thons, Skyward Sword would probably still be a 40 hour game. In fact, they could stand to cut a few of the dungeons because they weren't terribly interesting. Even at 40 hours, the game is probably too long.
Note the "to me" after every sentence in that quote :).
Also, I think that even if you don't enjoy the silent realm parts, they're over so quickly that it should be a small complaint. There are more offensive issues with the game than the silent realm, such as only having three different land masses on the ground. I don't care if the forest is underwater this time, or if the volcano has erupted, or if there's a new portion of the mines, it still represents the same area/mechanics, and it's lousy that they couldn't have given more areas to explore..
Again, I suppose it's dependent on your tolerance level for these things, and since I haven't played many new games this year, I imagine I find the silent realm and other grievances less offensive than most.
The silent realm bothers me because it just doesn't fit a game like Zelda, and it reminds me too much of the Ocean King temple from Phantom Hourglass which caused me to quit the game. Zelda, for me, is not about stealth or anything like that, the most Zelda had Pre-Wind Waker was dodging wall masters in quick sequences. I don't need a Silent Realm with Wannabe Wallcrawler knights chasing me around and sending me back to the beginning of the collectathon. It is just plain lazy to even have the Silent Realm, any game designer can litter a previously used asset with orbs to collect and have stuff chase you.
This game had a LONG development time, there is no excuse for the padding, which I feel is FAR worse then Twilight Princess, or perhaps it is similar and I am just getting too old to deal with it anymore.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 12, 2011, 02:10:32 PM
Zelda, for me, is not about stealth or anything like that, the most Zelda had Pre-Wind Waker was dodging wall masters in quick sequences.
Ocarina of Time had sneaking into Hyrule castle to speak to Zelda and freeing the carpenters in the Gerudo Fortress.
Stealth in Zelda just hasn't really been done well. You don't get to make a last stand if you're caught; you just start over. With no real consequences, I can't justify these segments as anything but filler getting in the way of the parts I want to play.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2011, 02:58:45 PM
Zelda, for me, is not about stealth or anything like that, the most Zelda had Pre-Wind Waker was dodging wall masters in quick sequences.
Ocarina of Time had sneaking into Hyrule castle to speak to Zelda and freeing the carpenters in the Gerudo Fortress.
Stealth in Zelda just hasn't really been done well. You don't get to make a last stand if you're caught; you just start over. With no real consequences, I can't justify these segments as anything but filler getting in the way of the parts I want to play.
I can agree with this sentiment. I also think the part where you find the fire dragon to get the 2nd part of the song is much more representative of how poorly "stealth" is handled in Zelda games than the Silent Realms.
Again, I guess I just see complaining about the silent realm comparative to complaining about the parsley (silent realm) placed on top of a sandwich when it's the bread (collect 30 notes in teh water LOL) that's stale.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 12, 2011, 07:24:01 PM
I don't really understand the complaints about revisiting areas. Every 3D Zelda game has been this way, so if that's a problem of this game, it's a problem of the entire series. I find it to be handled a lot better in this game for several reasons, including all the warp points strewn about the land. The land itself is also far more interesting and enjoyable than Zelda overworlds have ever been, since they're not just large, open expanses of land with little to see and do. Now, the sky is still mostly barren, though it's significantly smaller than Wind Waker's ocean of emptiness, so it's a lot more manageable.
I don't mind the item collecting either, but there are several reasons for that. I've always enjoyed treasure hunting, but the types of games that focus on that, such as roguelikes, are generally pretty difficult. So I don't mind having a little bit of that in a game like Zelda. As for upgrades, maybe it's because I'm used to games like Monster Hunter where upgrading weapons and armour require a ridiculous amount of material, but I found it to be pretty manageable. There were only a couple of times where I had to specifically go visit an area for the items I needed (how do tumbleweeds help make a shield?), but as long as I made sure to take my time exploring areas as I went through the game, I didn't find myself lacking the necessary treasures.
Now, the Silent Realms, I don't have much to say there. I don't hate them, I don't like them. They're just there. I never lost one except for the one time I was experimenting with how everything worked. All I can say is that they're a lot more tolerable than previous games' stealth segments because they are in areas that you already know, eliminating much of the trial and error usually associated with such elements.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 12, 2011, 09:48:01 PM
Zelda, for me, is not about stealth or anything like that, the most Zelda had Pre-Wind Waker was dodging wall masters in quick sequences.
Ocarina of Time had sneaking into Hyrule castle to speak to Zelda and freeing the carpenters in the Gerudo Fortress.
Yeah, Majora's Mask had a pair of stealth-based mini-missions in it as well. When I got Majora's Mask, I loved it so much, I played through a second time on a minimalist-quest. This involved only having a single bottle. It made the second stealth mission a pain in my neck... but it was all in good fun.
Never did finish that play though though. I had minimal hearts and only one fairy - I was able to beat the first of Majora's forms, but when he had those evil spikey tops, I never could dodge them right. Eventually, I tried it one day and my save files on my cart were erased. :(
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2011, 11:16:44 PM
Just finished the game. Definitely worth my time/money investment, although my wife is glad to have me back from my Zelda vacation.
I don't agree with a perfect score for the game that NWR gave it, but the grievances I've had with the game (heavy retreading, forgettable final boss, missed opportunity on deep customization mechanics) don't completely negate the charm of the characters, unique art style, entertaining origin story, and new gameplay style of motionplus sword fighting. I was delighted to read in the Zelda Wii U future thread that they intend on continuing this swordplay into future console iterations of the game. Easily a well-deserved 8.5/10 IMO.
I am still jonesing for some more Zelda experience. As someone who has only beaten Link to the Past, Ocarina of time, and Skyward Sword, can anyone provide me suggestions on which games might be best to go to next?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 12, 2011, 11:18:06 PM
I am still jonesing for some more Zelda experience. As someone who has only beaten Link to the Past, Ocarina of time, and Skyward Sword, can anyone provide me suggestions on which games might be best to go to next?
Majora's Mask on the N64 (via the Wii Virtual Console). It's like Skyward Sword in how it attempts to change-up the Zelda formula, only it's actually well-designed and fun to play. Alternatively, there's also Wind Waker on the GameCube (via the Wii's backwards compatibility), which is not my favorite Zelda game due to pacing issues but it has a certain charm to it that's fun.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2011, 11:32:39 PM
I am still jonesing for some more Zelda experience. As someone who has only beaten Link to the Past, Ocarina of time, and Skyward Sword, can anyone provide me suggestions on which games might be best to go to next?
Majora's Mask on the N64 (via the Wii Virtual Console). It's like Skyward Sword in how it attempts to change-up the Zelda formula, only it's actually well-designed and fun to play. Alternatively, there's also Wind Waker on the GameCube (via the Wii's backwards compatibility), which is not my favorite Zelda game due to pacing issues but it has a certain charm to it that's fun.
I remember having trouble conceptualizing where to go/what to do when I tried playing Majora's Mask, but that was a good couple years ago. Maybe I should try a re-tread, as I've never heard anything but glowing reviews on the game. I've also considered trying to pick up Twilight Princess as I only played 5 hours before quitting when I rented it, but the Nintendo Selects pricing may make me consider picking it up to give it a 2nd go.
For Majora's Mask, is there any benefit to finding the original cartridge somewhere?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 12, 2011, 11:38:45 PM
I remember having trouble conceptualizing where to go/what to do when I tried playing Majora's Mask, but that was a good couple years ago. Maybe I should try a re-tread, as I've never heard anything but glowing reviews on the game. I've also considered trying to pick up Twilight Princess as I only played 5 hours before quitting when I rented it, but the Nintendo Selects pricing may make me consider picking it up to give it a 2nd go.
Majora's Mask is a classic IMO and my favorite Zelda title, but it does have some controversial design decisions that I had no problems with but tend to bother some people, such as the 3-day time limit. It's funny, though, that I've seen so many comparisons of Skyloft to Majora's Mask's Clock Town, yet unlike Skyward Sword I actually cared about the citizens of Clock Town. You actually see these people have lives, and you feel like you can play an important role in them (whereas in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword they are at best Exclamation Points on your map leading to lame sidequests that ultimately lead to fulfilling a mediocre sidequest). The game isn't to everyone's tastes, but if you liked Skyward Sword you should definitely check it out.
EDIT: As for finding the original cartridge, I don't think that's necessary. I think the game runs better with a better controller and better framerate on the Virtual Console.
As for Twilight Princess, I just can't stand that game. It has some good ideas in places, some good music in places, and some good storytelling in places. That's the problem, though: it's inconsistent. Some moments are really good, some are really terrible, and the entire game is one giant chore to play through (especially the atrocious opening). By all means, play it for yourself and see if you like it. Some people do. But I just do not enjoy playing that game, particularly the waggle-tastic Wii version.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 12, 2011, 11:39:24 PM
As someone who has only beaten Link to the Past, Ocarina of time, and Skyward Sword, can anyone provide me suggestions on which games might be best to go to next?
They all have their merits, so I'd say try them all eventually. As for next though, if the heavy retreading is your least favourite part of Skyward Sword, I'd be weary of Majora's Mask. It has far more retreading than any other Zelda thanks to the terrible implementation of the three-day system. For me, I find Twilight Princess to be more refined than that game and Wind Waker, despite some of its issues, so I'd say go there.
Of course, the original game on the NES should be played, if for no other reason than historical purposes. Might want to play that before playing all the ones that built on it, since that could make it seem even more dated.
As far as which version of Majora's Mask to get, I don't think the VC version has any issues. The only reason to get the N64 cart besides having a physical copy would be Rumble Pak support. However, don't get the Zelda Collector's Edition on GameCube, because the Majora's Mask on that disc may freeze up on loading screens, as well as having some sound issues.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on December 13, 2011, 12:20:16 AM
I just got out of Skyloft and I am really liking it so far. I really like how they are making Zelda more interesting in recent games. I enjoyed ghost Zelda in Spirit Tracks and Zelda in SS is great for completely different reasons.
Nintendo does a great job of introducing the different mechanics as usual. When you first go into the cave to get your bird you fight slimes that you can just hack and then bats that basically need to be z targeted. Then you fight bigger slimes that are the first enemies that need to be beat with a specific slash (up and down) so they spit and you can take out the small ones.
With SS I also get the feeling that this is the place where Link lives while in most previous games where you start is just where you happen to be when the game starts. The interactions and relationships really cement Link as being part of Skyloft. Oh man, Skyloft is gorgeous. I really hope they keep using this style in the future.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 16, 2011, 06:26:28 PM
I think I triggered the glitch. >.< Not sure exactly what I did but when you're told to go find the 3 dragons, the first thing I did was try to go to Faron Woods, since you already know where the dragon is there. I couldn't land in the woods part, and when I tried to get in from behind the temple, the gate was closed. So, I went to the volcano and found the dragon there. I went back to the woods and still not dice. I went to the desert for that dragon, did the whole tree thing (probably the biggest mistake) and still can't get in. *sigh* I think I did some side-questing before going after the big whale guy who sends you after the dragons, if that makes a difference.
EDIT: Nevermind. Read up on it some more and getting the fire dragon's song first should keep the game from glitching. Apparently I just have to talk to Groose and fight the imprisoned for the third time. Bastard just won't stay down.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 21, 2011, 03:49:27 PM
Yahtzee doesn't like it. Said it is the worst Zelda game he has ever played.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 21, 2011, 03:59:22 PM
You know, I never expect him to like anything, but that was actually surprising.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 21, 2011, 05:16:37 PM
I watched some of his reviews a few weeks back and he sounds like he doesn't like anything.
Anyway I picked up the game again after getting side tracked and being sick in real life and I finished up the 4th dungeon and I think I saw a reference to Link's Awakening with one of the objects in the 4th dungeons. I also like how they brought back an mechanic from Wind Waker for the boss of the dungeon. I also went through the first Silent Realm and it worked for me. There was just enough tension to keep me rushing to each tear and it was just enough time between each tear to keep a level head.
Also I really didn't have any problem with the swimming like some others here it just took more fine movements. It wasn't really any different then the flying for me. No problems either way.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on December 21, 2011, 10:49:56 PM
Yahtzee always doesn't sound like he doesn't like anything in those videos. That's the shtick. Some of his favorite games of a given year got video reviews from him where it sounds like he didn't like it that much. Case in point, Just Cause 2.
As for his complaints on the game, they are nothing new. While he was talking of Fi, I was reminded that I'm not bothered much with her boring interactions. At least not yet as I near what I assume is to be the water-themed dungeon of the game. My tolerance may be due to surrendering myself to the slow pace of the game as evident to the fact I no longer bother to hold the 'A' button to make the text display (slightly) faster.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 21, 2011, 11:20:10 PM
Well, after looking over the games coming in the next few months, I've decided that I'm going (for the first time ever for me with a Zelda game) to ignore the remaining heart pieces, etc. in Skyward Sword. I'm just going to finish the main story and then sell the game off. The game's just given me such a huge case of "I don't give a **** anymore", and that's unfortunate for a Zelda title. There's no point holding onto the game once I finish it, as I didn't really enjoy my first playthrough and I'm never likely to play it again. Pity. The game has some good ideas. It just falls utterly short due to sheer repetition and lack of anything interesting to do in the game outside solving puzzles.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on December 22, 2011, 04:26:40 AM
'bout time you finish the main meat of a game rather than consume every loose stray bit and remnant sauce :D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 22, 2011, 04:52:48 AM
'bout time you finish the main meat of a game rather than consume every loose stray bit and remnant sauce :D
I know, but it's a tradition of mine to 100% Zelda since Link to the Past came out. I even got all the figures in Wind Waker. It's hard to let that go, but man I have better games to play and I do not want to bother with Bug Island; the Mine Cart mini-game; all the Goddess Walls; and anything else that might have one of the remaining heart pieces. Once I'm done with Trine 2 here, I'm going to wrap up Skyward Sword and be done with it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 22, 2011, 08:29:45 AM
I usually end up giving up on some of the final heart pieces and random other end game chores. I completed Ocarina of Time completely (all heart pieces, Poes etc) back in August for the first time. Finishing the 3D Edition was probably like my 7th or 8th play through.
I typically don't trade games after I complete them even though I should. I rarely replay games and Skyward Sword is most likely not on that list. I've traded in games I later wanted to replay and so I just don't trade them anymore just in case.
Anyway, I think I'm in the final stretch of the game. I just beat Levias. There are a couple of quests and mini-games left which I'll get to later. The game is packed with things to do; I just didn't really enjoy myself. I don't really get why the gaming media is so in love with it. To each his own, I guess. For the next inatallment, I'm hoping for the Zelda series version of Super Mario 3D Land: a game that takes the best elements of past games and perfectly combines them into an amazing experience. The Zelda team has tried but I don't think they've cracked it yet.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 22, 2011, 12:29:30 PM
I usually end up giving up on some of the final heart pieces and random other end game chores. I completed Ocarina of Time completely (all heart pieces, Poes etc) back in August for the first time. Finishing the 3D Edition was probably like my 7th or 8th play through.
I typically don't trade games after I complete them even though I should. I rarely replay games and Skyward Sword is most likely not on that list. I've traded in games I later wanted to replay and so I just don't trade them anymore just in case.
Anyway, I think I'm in the final stretch of the game. I just beat Levias. There are a couple of quests and mini-games left which I'll get to later. The game is packed with things to do; I just didn't really enjoy myself. I don't really get why the gaming media is so in love with it. To each his own, I guess. For the next inatallment, I'm hoping for the Zelda series version of Super Mario 3D Land: a game that takes the best elements of past games and perfectly combines them into an amazing experience. The Zelda team has tried but I don't think they've cracked it yet.
You're not too far from the end, but I do think you probably have something close to 20% of the game left. Someone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on December 22, 2011, 02:15:58 PM
so im just one flame away from completing the master sword...I'm about 25 hours in. That scares me because from what i can tell from discusion of this game are 2 things.
1)this game is aparently 40 hours long. 2)there's lots of filler aparently
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 22, 2011, 03:49:50 PM
I just finished up the 2nd silent realm and it was more intense then the first one and I did mess up a few times. Few things I noticed. The guardians typically go at different speeds and I think some of them can't do certain things. I think the ones with swords are pretty fast but they can't go up stairs or at least I didn't see him following me up them. The floating ones with scythes I think can go through walls but is fairly slow and the last one was just balanced I guess. Most of the time they can't catch up with you and they do try to corner you but thankfully the level is pretty open with paths to take. Gonna eat lunch and then use the new item I got to explore the world more and get more items. I think I may be able to get the next wallet upgrade now with this item.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 22, 2011, 07:29:25 PM
Finally picked up the game again after a few weeks and got the 2nd flame. I really enjoy the dungeons in this, it is just a pity the game has so much padding. I'm debating when I should go back and play it again though, I dread the 3rd Silent Realm, and may not even finish the game because of it. I didn't even fail the 2nd silent realm once yet still despised it completely.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on December 22, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
People keep mentioning 3 Silent Realms, I swear I did 4 of them. Or maybe I just kept reading things wrong.
The last one I was not a fan of. The first few I did them on my first try. That last one took me forever.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on December 22, 2011, 09:34:50 PM
People keep mentioning 3 Silent Realms, I swear I did 4 of them. Or maybe I just kept reading things wrong.
The last one I was not a fan of. The first few I did them on my first try. That last one took me forever.
yeah there's 4 of them. the last one is Skyloft
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 23, 2011, 12:48:27 AM
I just want to say, I find it a bit odd...
When news of the glitch got out, the gaming media went haywire. Take Peter Mai here: http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/2011/12/5_worst_video_game_glitchesbug.php
He names it the worst bug of 2011. Even worse than Skyrim on the PS3 (which, for those who don't know, can actually BRICK YOUR PS3.)
Meanwhile, today, Nintendo released the "patch" channel for Skyward Sword. I've barely heard a bleep out of the gaming press. Ive seen more articles about the botched Club Nintendo calendar than I have that this fix is out.
I know it's a somewhat clunky method of fixing the bug, but geesh - you'd think how some sites declared this bug a disaster somewhere on the scale between Chernobyl and the asteroid that killed all the dinosaurs, they'd run an article on it or mention it or something...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 23, 2011, 12:56:06 AM
He names it the worst bug of 2011. Even worse than Skyrim on the PS3 (which, for those who don't know, can actually BRICK YOUR PS3.)
As someone who owns the PS3 version of Skyrim and regularly sees framerate drops into the single digits; constant crashes; broken quests; and corrupted save files (all of which I complain regularly about on Twitter), I find that decision to be almost offensive. The Skyward Sword bug is a product of lazy design (much like a lot of Skyward Sword's problems) and even lazier testing, but it's also relatively low user-path and Nintendo actually has a fix out for it.
Meanwhile, Bethesda has still barely done anything to fix Skyrim on the PS3 over a month after launch, and has actually made it worse with some of the recent patches. They aren't even touching the broken quests until sometime next month.
So yeah, this "Peter Mai" character needs to have his head examined.
I have seen stories around the internet on this fix, though, Bob. Most of them have a good laugh over how Nintendo needed to make an entire Wii channel to do a simple patch, but I have seen the story reported on other sites like Destructoid and Joystiq.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 23, 2011, 01:06:26 AM
I have seen stories around the internet on this fix, though, Bob. Most of them have a good laugh over how Nintendo needed to make an entire Wii channel to do a simple patch, but I have seen the story reported on other sites like Destructoid and Joystiq.
Oh, the story is out there... but, really, I haven't seen a lot of exposure on it. It just seems as big as these sites made the glitch out to be, you'd think they'd talk about it a little more.
As for picking on Nintendo because of their method of fixing it... that's fine with me. While Nintendo deserves some praise for coming up with *some* fix, I'm not against giving them a good ribbing over how they painted themselves into a corner on this one. I can only hope they learn from their mistakes (I know, I know... managing my own expectations)....
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 23, 2011, 01:09:44 AM
I don't think the fix is official yet since it hasn't been released. If there's no PR about it, it won't be covered by a lot of sites.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 23, 2011, 01:11:32 AM
I don't think the fix is official yet since it hasn't been released. If there's no PR about it, it won't be covered by a lot of sites.
It's been released - I just downloaded it on my three Wiis.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 23, 2011, 01:12:49 AM
Quick question about this channel. I am up to the Ship yard currently so if I update my save data and I happen to come across the glitch it won't affect me right or would I have to wait and see if the glich affects me to download it?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 23, 2011, 01:15:08 AM
I think it helps prove my point that a Nintendo fan/gamer hasn't even heard that the fix was officially released. :D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shaymin on December 23, 2011, 06:31:24 AM
Reality is a Nintendo fanboy. Thankfully, someone is.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 23, 2011, 08:36:54 AM
I was wondering why everyone was complaining about the musical notes part and then I got to it and said, "Oh..." The Song of the Hero stretch of the game has been especially awful.
I don't have too much further to go. I believe there's one more Silent Realm. I'm trying to get the fancy shield from the Thunder Dragon. I had to quit after the 5th round because I forgot how to beat Koloktos and lost most of my hearts in that round. I should be able to get the shield tonight. I know where 3 of the last 4 heart pieces are but since I'm never going to beat Fun Fun Island, I'm not too concerned. The Thunder Dragon has 1 and the mine kart mini-game has the other that I know of. The last one might be in a Goddess Cube since I completed all the Gratitude Crystal quests. I may only have a like 1 or 2 Goodess Cubes left to find.
Fledge was a total dick with the last pumpkins in the Pumpkin Pull mini-game. I scored 580 three different times. He takes so long to throw them then throws really far and/or high as time is winding down.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 23, 2011, 09:42:21 AM
Well Unclebob just reminded me I need to pick up Pokemon Snap and Majora's Mask sometime...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 23, 2011, 02:15:37 PM
People keep mentioning 3 Silent Realms, I swear I did 4 of them. Or maybe I just kept reading things wrong.
The last one I was not a fan of. The first few I did them on my first try. That last one took me forever.
4? OK now I will really have a hard time motivating myself to finish the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: broodwars on December 23, 2011, 05:47:01 PM
Well, my best friend was over today, and he wanted to see Zelda. He's not a fan of motion controls, so I ended up showing him the bosses through the Boss Rush mode (earning the unbreakable Hylian Shield in the process). At that point, we pretty much figured "why not?", so I actually went and cleared the final dungeon and beat the final two bosses. That last boss was almost enough to convince me to keep the game. I have to admit, I didn't much like this Zelda game, but that was a pretty awesome final boss (we both got a kick out of what happened when you summoned a Skyward Strike in that battle). I really didn't like the final fight with Ghirahem, though. It is extremely critical that you can stab on command in that fight, and the controls just wouldn't let me dothat. Link kept doing the overhead slash, instead. The ending was...interesting in how it set up the whole "Legend of Zelda".
Incidentally, after I beat the game, my friend said he had seen enough of the game and never wanted to play it himself.
Overall, I think this is a pretty overrated and deeply flawed game full of obnoxious padding and control issues. Is it a bad game? No, not really. But I really didn't like it. It seemed in the push to "revolutionize the franchise", the designers "threw the baby out with the bath water" as it were and ditched all the exploration and interesting worlds that made Zelda what it was. Hopefully, next time they do better.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 24, 2011, 09:37:48 PM
I was wondering why everyone was complaining about the musical notes part and then I got to it and said, "Oh..." The Song of the Hero stretch of the game has been especially awful.
I don't have too much further to go. I believe there's one more Silent Realm. I'm trying to get the fancy shield from the Thunder Dragon. I had to quit after the 5th round because I forgot how to beat Koloktos and lost most of my hearts in that round. I should be able to get the shield tonight. I know where 3 of the last 4 heart pieces are but since I'm never going to beat Fun Fun Island, I'm not too concerned. The Thunder Dragon has 1 and the mine kart mini-game has the other that I know of. The last one might be in a Goddess Cube since I completed all the Gratitude Crystal quests. I may only have a like 1 or 2 Goodess Cubes left to find.
Fledge was a total dick with the last pumpkins in the Pumpkin Pull mini-game. I scored 580 three different times. He takes so long to throw them then throws really far and/or high as time is winding down.
I saw a pretty nifty video of the pumpkin minigame it it basically shows how to score a perfect score you just have to aim your arrow by his head and fire just as he is releasing it. Maybe he changes up the timing up more then other times you play and you haven't come across a good set yet.
Anyway I upgraded nearly all my items. I think I only need to upgrade the quiver fully now. I am just about to start the 3rd silent realm in a little bit. So for the rest of the game I will likely just working on the main plot and when I can just spreading out whatever goddess cubes and Graditude crystals I have left.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on December 25, 2011, 02:15:27 PM
Dear Faron Dragon, you and your tadtones can go to hell.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 25, 2011, 03:17:25 PM
I finally finished the game not too long ago, making Skyward Sword the second game I've beaten on Christmas Day. Metroid Prime was the first. My opinions of each game couldn't be more different.
I hated Skyward Sword.
Plot-wise, there are some odd choices and plot-holes. Why didn't old Impa just destroy the second Gate of Time once Demise was defeated in the present? Then, there are no more things that can happen. Link would have defeated Ghirahim if he even bothered to show up after his master's defeat. That's just poor storytelling. It gets worse. The Triforce can grant ANY wish. Why doesn't anyone use the Triforce to destroy Demise's hatred, preventing it from being reborn? Seems like a major oversight seeing as Link and Zelda are standing right in front of the Triforce at the end. That would negate the entire series.
On top of that, this game shouldn't even exist. From what I understand, despite no explanation for his existence, The Demon King, Demise, emerged from the earth to seize the Triforce. Hylia saves the humans (and no one else) by raising Skyloft above the clouds then returns to the surface to defeat and seal away Demise (as The Imprisioned). Here's the part I don't understand: Instead of giving up her immortality to keep Demise sealed away, why doesn't Hylia just use her divine powers to drop a floating island/The Sky Keep onto Demise herself? Seems a lot easier than setting up a super-elaborate chain of events of guiding Link to reforging the Master Sword (her own sword) and collecting the Triforce while also having her reborn human form (Zelda) reawaken her memories just to do something she could do herself and right away. Or if the wish-granting power of the Triforce is needed, why didn't Hylia just use the Triforce to wish for the destruction of Demise? Hylia gives up her power to keep Demise sealed when she could keep her power and destroy Demise. What the WHAT?!
Summary There were parts that were enjoyable but as a whole, it's not. I'm a supporter of the existence of motion controls. I just don't particularly like them in Zelda. Nintendo could have evolved the gameplay with traditional controls; they just didn't. Aiming was fun but it was fun 5 years ago in Twilight Princess. Everything else that uses motion controls either lacked precision or could have been done just as well with traditional controls.
I finished the game in roughly 50 hours, including completing every Gratitude Crystal side-quest and getting all of the heart pieces besides the 3 you earn by completing mini-games. I estimate that it would have taken roughly half as long just going through the game normally. That's still too long considering the game is filled with mandatory boring/annoying parts. Take those out and Skyward Sword is a shorter but much better game.
A lot of the bosses look like Muppet rejects. They didn't look like they fit this game let alone the rest of the series.
The Lanayru Sand Sea was one of those coolest things I've ever seen in a videogame.
We talked about the series jumping the shark in another thread recently (or was it earlier in this one?). I definitely feel like it has. I look back on my favorite game in the series, A Link to the Past, and it's nothing like the Zelda games today. The series doesn't make sense any more. Mine carts? Mole mitts? How are these part of the same franchise?
I'd love to see Retro Studios do a one-off reboot of Zelda and give them free reign to change whatever they wanted. I always wanted to see a steampunk Zelda and considering what Retro Studios did with Elysia in Metroid Prime, I think they could pull it off. If Nintendo wants to put robots and trains and mine carts into the game, the entire world has to reflect that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on December 25, 2011, 06:13:40 PM
I'd love to see Retro Studios do a one-off reboot of Zelda and give them free reign to change whatever they wanted. I always wanted to see a steampunk Zelda and considering what Retro Studios did with Elysia in Metroid Prime
yes please!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 25, 2011, 10:14:12 PM
I look back on my favorite game in the series, A Link to the Past, and it's nothing like the Zelda games today.
Quote
I'd love to see Retro Studios do a one-off reboot of Zelda and give them free reign to change whatever they wanted. I always wanted to see a steampunk Zelda [...]
And the internet says Zelda fans are hard to please... :D
Quote
The series doesn't make sense any more. Mine carts? Mole mitts? How are these part of the same franchise?
To be fair, mine carts have been around since the Oracle games and the Mogma Mitts are renamed Mole Mitts from the Minish Cap - which simply replace the shovel... first found in Link to the Past...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Nbz on December 25, 2011, 10:24:15 PM
So I finally conquered Skyward Sword the other day at my Cousin's house while he watched me go through the final dungeon and the end game sequence. Put in a total of 49 hours, which is easily the most time I've spent with a Zelda game, and my overall opinions lean towards the very positive side of the spectrum.
The first thing I have to say is that I had 0 issues with motion control throughout my time with the game. Apart from re-centring the Bow/Beetle with the D-pad there was nothing I had to worry about. All my movements were perfectly re-created and I must applaud Nintendo again for showing us that motion control CAN work and can be done extremely well. I do think that swimming should have been assigned to the nunchuck, but the motion controls worked well enough so I wasn't too annoyed at that.
The next thing I'd like to touch on is Skyloft itself as a town. From what I experienced it is by far my favourite town in any Zelda game. Clock town is without a doubt the most living, breathing Zelda town, but Skyloft has that charm and instant likeability about it that seems absent in most other Zelda games. It essentially takes Wind Waker's charm and merges it with Clock Town's intricacy. Though it is small, and I would have loved to have many more explorable islands I still spent a huge amount of time simply running around Skyloft, not really doing much. It served as an excellent "break" in between dungeon's during the entirety of the game, and because of the way sidequests were opened up, I always had something to get on with after bombing through one of the areas below the clouds. I even discovered that I hadn't even visited all the houses on Skyloft even after 40 hours of gameplay, as the final two sidequests required me to visit the houses of two sets of people that I hadn't really interacted with before. Though it is without a doubt the area you get to know the best during your time with the game, when it came to the Silent Realm segment I actually didn't beat it on my first try, despite having not failed a single one yet. It took me 3 tries to get through it, which was really surprising. They had somehow managed to add challenge to a gameplay mechanic that is leveraged on your knowledge of the surrounding area, in an area which you pretty much know like the back of your hand at this point in the game.
Speaking of the Silent Realm, those segments were without a doubt my least favourite part of the game. I almost dreaded finishing off the 5th boss, simply because I knew that the next Silent Realm was in Eldin, and it was going to be a bitch. When I got through them it didn't seem so bad, but it was that overhanging dread before doing one which really got to me. But then again, it meant I messed around more in Skyloft as a procrastination technique, so I was happy nonetheless. I understand their presence in the game, as a means to diversify gameplay, but I really think that Nintendo could have gone about mixing up the gameplay mechanics in a more enjoyable way.
The thing in Skyward Sword that I took most pleasure from though, were the dungeons. Even though this game made it much easier to stop gameplay during a temple so that you could resume at a later time, I actually never found myself needing it. The dungeons were so compelling that I beat each individual one in a single sitting. My playstyle with games like Zelda is ususally to save before a dungeon, beat it, then save and switch off, but with Skyward Sword my play sessions ended up being much longer, because once I'd gone through the trouble of opening the dungeon up, I was so keen to jump into it that I just kept playing. And I didn't turn the game off afterwards either, tending to spend at least an hour more in Skyloft once I was done with the Boss. I firmly believe that the boss in the game's 4th Dungeon is one of the most satisfying, intense and challening bosses in any Zelda game ever. However, it was the desert area of Lanayru for which I reserve the highest praise. I think that the time changing mechanic is ingenious and they used it in such an incredibly clever way that I was really blown away by this area multiple times. Its for this reason that I think they really need to mix up the environments much more in future Zelda games. Faron and Eldin were very predictable and their specific gameplay mechanics felt a lot more tired than the freshness presented in Lanayru. I was mind blown twice during the game, and both times I was in Lanayru. The section with the time shift stone in the boat while you ride around the desert sea is one of the most clever things I have seen in a video game, and it really reminded me how smart the creators of this franchise can really be. In short, I loved the dungeons, and appreciated their relative simplicity as it allowed for a concentrated burst of enjoyment rather than a segmented experience in which I may get lost or have no idea what to do next. I was, however, extremely disappointed with the 6th dungeon and its Boss, but one bad dungeon didn't really harm my overall enjoyment of the game when the others were just so good.
I really enjoyed the upgrading mechanic that the game employs, but like Jonny said on RFN, I wish there was more stuff I could do with the items I collected. Who really needs 40 Amber Relics or 30 Jelly Blob things? Unless you are terrible with the sheild and end up replacing it and upgrading it constantly, then these materials really become completely useless. Moreover, I wish that they would balance out the distribution of these materials. I ended up having 40 of one thing and 2 of another, and yet 3 of my items needed multiple of the more rare material and none of the more common one. This led to me having to go and grind for materials, which I didn't really mind, but I would have certainly preferred if the ones you needed were dropped on a more consistent basis. The bugs were also a point of interest to me. I couldn't resist going after all of them, but when it came down to it I never used any of them for anything. I never felt like it was worth upgrading a potion and I never really needed the money from selling them. In the end they kind of sat there in my inventory as if I were some kind of collector, picking these things up for the sheer sake of it.
Perhaps the thing that I found most impressive about this game is how well every single item (barring the slingshot) is used. Twilight Princess was all about individual items being central to individual dungeons, and after that you would hardly ever see them again (I'm talking to you, Spinner and Ball & Chain). Skyward Sword pretty much throws that idea out the window, and as a result you have a much more reduced roster of items, but the items see so much more use than they did in previous games. To be honest I can't even remember where I got most of the items, because their collection is so embedded into the game structure that it makes it almost impossible to pinpoint what you got when. In other games I could tell you the item for each individual dungeon, because they were so rigidly themed, whereas in Skyward Sword the items are collected not only in the dungeon, but also in the overworld leading up the the dungeon. Some items don't even feel like you are really getting something new because they are just upgrades to existing equipment. Not that this is a bad thing though, because it really enforces the idea that you use the items on such a frequent basis.
I can't close this out without talking a bit about the end of the game and how it ties up the story. I personally found the final dungeon to be very interesting, but I would have preferred to see something completely different, rather than just a re-tread of old territory. Having said that though, the individual rooms were very interesting. The entire room shifting mechanic was an overarching puzzle in itself and was genuinely inventive. I did almost scream out in anguish as it showed me entering the Silent Realm to pick up the first piece of Triforce, thinking that I would once again have to go through this ridiculous process, but thankfully all you have to do is go over and pick it up. The final boss montage was for the most part very enjoyable. As someone who was very disappointed by the 6th dungeon, I was not happy to see Ghirahim return for the third time in the game. As a 6th boss he changed very little from our first encounter, the main difference being that I had a hell of a lot more hearts. This made it less challenging and generally disappointing that Nintendo had not put the effort in to think up a new boss that could rival the 2 incredible ones before it. That being said, the third encounter was without a doubt the best of the 3 and easily made it onto the list for my favourite boss fights in the game. They really mixed things up and made it both very fun, mentally taxing and physically challenging. Having said that, the final fight with Demise was slightly disappointing, but still very good. I easily costed through his first form, utilising the shield bash to my advantage, though I would have preferred to have a more upgraded one, my 2nd stage sacred shield did the job just fine. It was the second form that I had trouble with, mainly because it was very difficult to find a window in which to absorb lightning when he didn't have any. I died twice on that guy, but as so happens to be the case with most things in this game it was third time lucky. The final story sequence was very enjoyable and the revelation that Demise gets reincarnated as Ganon was certainly interesting, though it was kinda obvious given how similar both of them look.
Overall I really did enjoy this game a lot. It is not often that I beat games of this scale in such a short space of time, that just the kind of gamer I am. But Skyward Sword had such a draw to it and was so compelling that I really felt dedicated to it and was very insistent on wanting to finish it. I know opinions are mixed, but personally I think that this is the Zelda game that I will most likely pick up and play through again multiple times, simply because of its streamlined mechanics, heart warming story and tight gameplay. Now time for Xenoblade :D
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 25, 2011, 11:45:52 PM
I look back on my favorite game in the series, A Link to the Past, and it's nothing like the Zelda games today.
Quote
I'd love to see Retro Studios do a one-off reboot of Zelda and give them free reign to change whatever they wanted. I always wanted to see a steampunk Zelda [...]
And the internet says Zelda fans are hard to please... :D
Hence, "one-off reboot." Should Nintendo attempt a steampunk Zelda, I'd rather they do so outside of the existing canon so they're not shackled by the rules of series.
Quote
To be fair, mine carts have been around since the Oracle games and the Mogma Mitts are renamed Mole Mitts from the Minish Cap - which simply replace the shovel... first found in Link to the Past...
I was being fair. I didn't say mine carts were okay in Seasons/Ages and not okay in Skyward Sword. Roller-coaster like mine cart rails (who would build that?) and crawling around underground tunnels are silly. They felt out of place. The first 3 Zelda games are very similar in tone though A Link to the Past is a more sophisticated game. Link's Awakening was a bit more lighthearted with the meta humor and cameos though I attribute those things to the surreal, dream-like quality of the game. These days, when the series tries to be lighthearted, it comes off as silly. When the series tries to be serious, it comes off as melodramatic. It doesn't have the same balance that it once had.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 26, 2011, 12:23:42 AM
I was being fair. I didn't say mine carts were okay in Seasons/Ages and not okay in Skyward Sword. Roller-coaster like mine cart rails (who would build that?) and crawling around underground tunnels are silly. They felt out of place.
Who WOULDN'T build awesome roller-coaster-esque mine carts? :D :D :D
Personally, I try not to get too hung-up on the hows and whys of this kind of stuff. I mean, what kind of shopkeeper puts his shop in some hard-to-reach area, instead of a door, has a pile of rocks, which looks like every single other pile of rocks, and that can only be cleared away with a bomb, then only sells three items? Items which wouldn't even be really very useful to anyone but a little elven boy who's trying to save the kingdom? "Hey, here's a key you can use in those terrifying old, worn-down palaces and caves where those evil monsters and three-headed dragons and giant spiders live. It's a steal for only 100 Rupees."
I dunno - if I was going to have a complaint about the items in Skyward Sword, I think it'd be more about how there's virtually no new items in the game...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on December 26, 2011, 02:23:25 AM
I got this game for Christmas today. Now I need to buy Motion Plus. fffffffuuuuuuuuu-
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on December 26, 2011, 03:15:01 AM
I just got the digging gloves and I still really like it. I've gotten much better at using the sword since facing Ghirahaim and seeing his awesome introduction. Does anyone else feel like a little kid again when you have to hold up the sword for the skyward strike? Great addition. I'm getting a kick out of all the new characters and the twists on old ones. Beedle actually dropped me out of his shop when I didn't buy anything, the smiley shop keeper obviously hates people despite the face he puts on, the potion shop infuser has to stay up all night taking care of his baby while his wife sleeps(in a seperate bed), the demon playing the "screaming game," adorable Zelda, Ghirahaim and of course Groose. Skyloft is still fun to run around and I like how the fruit is strategically placed so once you master areas you never have to stop running. After finding the demon I can tell there are going to be plenty more areas I haven't been to yet too.
The aiming threw me at first because I kept trying to do it like twilight princess and other pointer based games. Once I started holding the remote like the bow in Resort it clicked and now I have no problems.
I wish I could comment on Nbz's stuff but I noticed he has some spoilers in there so I stopped reading. I ignore Adrok's opinion completely because he says he hated a game that he completed. I don't finish most of the games I like and stop playing those I'm not interested in. When somebody can play 50 hours of a game, finish it and say they hated it just tells me that they have a completely different persective than me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 26, 2011, 04:32:29 AM
Yeah SixthAngel I do tend feel like a little kid when I play this. I also tend to over exagurate my sword swings when I don't need to be precice or after boss battles or when the boss is almost gone. I haven't spent any more time with the game since Christmas was yesterday but I will likely try to finish up the game before the new year starts.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 26, 2011, 11:44:41 AM
I ignore Adrok's opinion completely because he says he hated a game that he completed. I don't finish most of the games I like and stop playing those I'm not interested in. When somebody can play 50 hours of a game, finish it and say they hated it just tells me that they have a completely different persective than me.
I'll typically stop playing games I hate. For example, I stopped playing Spirit Tracks probably half-way through. The difference is that I paid $25 for Spirit Tracks used and $70 for Skyward Sword new. I wanted to get my money's worth and it wasn't worth losing roughly half its value by trading it for credit. Maybe I can sell it on ebay in a few years.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on December 26, 2011, 04:08:18 PM
I just joined the Skyward Sword club and my impressions will be posted in the next few days.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on December 26, 2011, 06:49:08 PM
...ditched all the exploration and interesting worlds that made Zelda what it was.
It's funny how I feel the opposite of this. I've always felt that previous Zelda games gave the illusion of exploration with vast open spaces, but a linear path, so I enjoyed discovering Skyward Sword's world more since it didn't have wasted space. I also felt the final boss was too simple and easy, I honestly stared at the screen thinking "Is that it?" as I waited/hoped for another form to show up.
Personally, I try not to get too hung-up on the hows and whys of this kind of stuff.
Same here. As with any fantasy setting, I don't start questioning why anything came to be, I just accept that it is what it is. That's also a reason I wasn't particularly interested in this game's story: I don't really care about the origin of anything.
...ditched all the exploration and interesting worlds that made Zelda what it was.
It's funny how I feel the opposite of this. I've always felt that previous Zelda games gave the illusion of exploration with vast open spaces, but a linear path, so I enjoyed discovering Skyward Sword's world more since it didn't have wasted space. I also felt the final boss was too simple and easy, I honestly stared at the screen thinking "Is that it?" as I waited/hoped for another form to show up.
Sure, it's an easy and simple final fight, but given that the fight before it requires a great deal of precision and coordination that was fine with me. The last fight was all about spectacle and atmosphere, and I thought it succeeded pretty well at that, especially by Nintendo standards.
There's just absolutely nothing interesting about Skyward Sword's world IMO. It feels barren; dull; and small, and its populace aren't much more interesting. The sky promises adventure and exploration, but there's nothing in it. By contrast, Majora's Mask's world is much more artificial, but feels much more interesting to me because of all the interaction I have with the populace and how dense all the content is. If I wander in a given direction, I'll find something interesting. I feel like I have a meaningful stake in the lives of the NPCs, and that Termina is a world worth fighting for.
In Skyward Sword, I'm the Goddess Hylia's frickin' errand boy, checking items off her shopping list while occasionally swinging my sword at stuff. It never feels like the world is ever really in danger, because there's absolutely nothing threatening about Ghirahem and you never really get a feel for Demise until the game's nearly over.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 26, 2011, 09:04:53 PM
I'll typically stop playing games I hate. For example, I stopped playing Spirit Tracks probably half-way through. The difference is that I paid $25 for Spirit Tracks used and $70 for Skyward Sword new. I wanted to get my money's worth and it wasn't worth losing roughly half its value by trading it for credit. Maybe I can sell it on ebay in a few years.
You played for 50 hours... Let's say you had stopped half way through - 25 hours saved. 25 hours of my time is worth far more than $70. I don't mean to tell you how to live your life or anything, but heck, you should really value your time more... don't waste it on something you "hate"...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: King of Twitch on December 27, 2011, 01:35:05 AM
Seriously^that man speaks truth. If you're spending that much time on a video game you probably should try valuing the short time you have on this earth. No one ever said on their death bed, "Gee, I wish was more of a shut-in couch potato."
Get outside and live.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 27, 2011, 02:05:12 AM
Hey, now, I'm not knocking spending that much time on a video game. :D Lord knows I've done it... :D
I just don't see spending that much time playing a video game that you hate... regardless of how much you spent on it. If I bought a game I hated and had no more money to buy any other games for the next three months, I'd rather spend time going back and replying an old favorite than sinking an additional 25 hours into a game that I hate... Hell, I have games I haven't finished and I like and I often find myself going back and playing an old favorite instead... I just can't imagine forcing myself to play though something I hate...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 27, 2011, 08:47:26 AM
...as posted on an Internet message board. Pot meet kettle.
I started actually hating the game around the middle of the Song of the Hero section of the game which was around 35-40 hours in. I didn't know how much I had left but I got that far so I wanted to see it through. Had I absolutely known that there was 10-15 hours left, I probably would have let it go. I expected maybe 5 hours and for the tadpole thing to not be anywhere near as annoying.
See, you and Uncle Bob are judging me based on my hindsight opinion of the game. I didn't hate every second of the game as if it was torture. I got to that breaking point with mixed feelings (admittedly leaning towards unfavorable), hoping the game would get better which it didn't. It got exponentially worse. I thought there would be a payoff and I was wrong. My bad. There was no way for me to have known that without playing the game. Despite some bright spots, I hated the game as a whole. Major plot-holes, excessively irritating segments and a rudimentary end game sealed my unfavorable collective opinion of Skyward Sword. What I find ironic about all of this is if I said I hated the game but didn't finish it, someone else would have admonished me for "not giving the game a chance." It's pretty much lose-lose if you dislike something that other people like.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on December 27, 2011, 12:51:54 PM
I'm glad to hear the UncleBob is condoning me stopping at the 4th Dungeon. I just haven't gotten the will to go back to the game. I think that I got the goody out of it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 27, 2011, 01:22:26 PM
As I said earlier, I'm really, really not trying to tell you how to live - I just can't understand the mindset of doing something I don't like and don't have to do when there are so many other things I could be doing.
There are so many great games out there - I can't see wasting my time playing something I hate... To me, it'd be like sticking around in a loveless marriage thinking "maybe it'll get better"... except, in this case, you're the only one who's miserable. The Zelda disc doesn't care if you play it or not. ;)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on December 27, 2011, 02:46:32 PM
And as I explained earlier, I didn't hate the game until I thought it was nearly over. Maybe that's the part you find issue with and if so, my only recourse is "because I felt like it" which is pretty much why anyone does anything. Have you ever watched the rest of a movie you found fair at best, especially when everyone told it was awesome? Has the rest of that movie ever been terrible? The same principle applies here. I've done that before; not every time but I have done that and I don't think it's completely out of the ordinary. Now, if I were to replay the game beginning to end, knowing I how I felt the first time, I could understand your confusion and I'd have no one to blame but myself. However, that's not the case.
Additinally, I understand cutting my losses and quitting and I have in the past, but I knew I was close to finishing Skyward Sword and I wanted to see the end of the game. You're making it seem like all I do is engage in activities I find disdainful which is simply not true. I spent over a month conpleting Skyward Sword. Playing videogames is no where near what I spent the majority of my time doing. I didn't even hate the game initially. If I booted up Skyward Sword and hated every second of those first few hours, yeah, I'd shut it down. The game isn't without its positives but as a whole, the cons outweigh the pros. The end of the game had a lot to do with it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on December 27, 2011, 03:26:51 PM
And as I explained earlier, I didn't hate the game until I thought it was nearly over. Maybe that's the part you find issue with and if so, my only recourse is "because I felt like it" which is pretty much why anyone does anything.
I've played games up till the final boss, then never went back and finished them simply because I wasn't interested... so yeah, this might be part of it.
But, again, not trying to demonize you or anything... I just found it... odd. You have your reasons, and if that's good enough for you, then it's good enough for me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 27, 2011, 07:53:07 PM
I think I got my first game over in the game. The Imprisioned got up to the temple.The second Imprisoned I might add. I couldn't get past his body and by the time I figured out how to get around it and did some damage to the head it was to late. I will try again later. I think I might have a good idea on what items I should bring to make it easier. Stamina potions and I think that will make a difference.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on December 27, 2011, 10:50:27 PM
I think I got my first game over in the game. The Imprisioned got up to the temple.The second Imprisoned I might add. I couldn't get past his body and by the time I figured out how to get around it and did some damage to the head it was to late. I will try again later. I think I might have a good idea on what items I should bring to make it easier. Stamina potions and I think that will make a difference.
Ugh....I hated repeating The Imprisoned battle. By far my least favorite boss battles.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 28, 2011, 01:06:38 AM
The Imprisoned fights aren't that bad. Just jump on his head from a higher platform to pound the seal in, it's much quicker and easier then trying to destroy all the toes to knock him over.
I'm surprised more people don't fight the Imprisoned this way when Nintendo themselves showed Link fighting just like that in the first trailer that even showed the Imprisoned fight. This method makes all the fights pretty easy.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 28, 2011, 01:22:01 AM
Yeah but if I am not mistaken it is harder to get on its back as you fight it more. Also there is a way to get onto its back by sky diving on to it but I haven't been to successful so far. I am fairly good at it too. I was close one time at beating it but it was on its last toes when it reached the top when I just needed to hit it 3 more times so I stopped for a short while. I'll try that out though Luigi Dude.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on December 28, 2011, 02:39:22 AM
I finally was able to get started in this game after putting a month into "finishing" Skyrim. I've only completed the beginning tutorial and opened the first entrance to the surface. After reading everyone's impressions on here though, I'm almost scared to continue lol. I'm loving the game up to this point but I hope I don't get as agitated with the game as some of you did.
As for the intro and tutorial section of the game, I think its the best yet out of all the most recent Zelda games. It did drag a bit and at times I was lost as to where I was supposed to be going but nothing to big. I actually like this game's Link and Zelda. Out of all the LoZs, these two seem to have the most chemistry and seem the most natural. Link, although you don't hear him speak, you can see him talking to various characters during some cut scenes, so you at least get the feel that he is a person and not a completely silent hero. Zelda is an average girl in this game and not a princess which helps in her having a more down to earth and approachable personality. You don't sense the class distinctions as before.
As for the quest itself, most here describe it as a fetch quest or shopping list for the goddess. I haven't started it but just from the sword sequence in the biginning of the game, Fi basically states that I'm going to be an instrument of the goddess along with Zelda. Link seems hesitant at first to grab the sword and is so until Fi explains things in a manner which relate more to his immediate life. When Fi tells Link that if he'll like to rescue Zelda he'll have to take the sword and fullfill his destiny he basically runs towards the sword. Its obvious Link doesn't really care what exactly the goddess has planned for him or what he needs to do, he just knows that if following her instructions will lead to him bringing Zelda back, then so be it. Its all the more believable now since Link and Zelda have been life long Friends as apposed to some of the other LoZ games where Link just meets her and all of a sudden he's compelled to go to hell and back for this girl.
Like I said though, I'm only right at the beginning so my mood can change over the course of the game, but as the game has begun, I feel more attached to this Link and Zelda than I ever have to any of the previous versions. I actually feel compelled to see this story through just to see them reunited again. Hopefully I can weather some of the rougher portions of the game as I have been known to really lose patience with some games (hell I almost lost my drive to finish Twilight Princess when I played it lol) I've been carefull in reading posts here as there seems to be spoilers oozing out of every other sentence but I'll pop back in with my progress over the next few weeks. I need to have this game done and over with as I've just received around 5 other games for Christmass that are on the waiting list as a result of this lol.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 28, 2011, 03:35:55 AM
Well it isn't agitation for me as it is figuring the best way to do things. As far as Zelda and Link goes I do have to agree they seem the most connected at the begining of the game as opposed to other Zelda games.
I did beat the 2nd Imprisioned though and I caught up on some back story on the game and it is pretty interesting and it does explain some things from other Zelda games but I won't go into it now. I think I will be be able to get through the game if I can figure out things quickly.
So I think I just had a fight with a simi reference to one of the other Zelda games at least what I was riding on while fighting the enemy. I was kinda expecting this kinda fight but I thought it would be with another foe. It was a nice mix on this type of fight.
Anyway it seems like I am coming on to the Song of Heroes portion of the game and judging by the comments it seems like mot people had the most issues with this portion of the game. Alo if I am not mitaken the glich is in this part of the game but if I go in a certain order in the areas I shouldn't encounter it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on December 28, 2011, 04:24:00 PM
The Imprisoned fights aren't that bad. Just jump on his head from a higher platform to pound the seal in, it's much quicker and easier then trying to destroy all the toes to knock him over.
I'm surprised more people don't fight the Imprisoned this way when Nintendo themselves showed Link fighting just like that in the first trailer that even showed the Imprisoned fight. This method makes all the fights pretty easy.
I didn't think of that at ALL and I had stopped watching trailers. >.<
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 28, 2011, 10:31:59 PM
Yeah I had been avoiding all of the details and videos leading up to the release of the game so I may have had to figure things out for myself.
I just got all the Hero songs and I really don't see the issue everyone had with them. They are pretty different from each other so I like that aspect of it. I liked the fire song porton the best. I also liked the 3rd Imprisoned the best out of all of them. I think I am going to stick with the shield I have unless I run into a snag at the end of the game in which I need it but I don't think I will.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on December 29, 2011, 02:28:28 AM
I just finished this game a few minutes ago. The fight with Girahim was much more entertaining than the fight with Kratos Demise but I like how the "legend of groose Zelda" ending up falling into place, because I wasn't really expecting Nintendo to even bother tying the story with the other games (I didnt catch the hype train so i didnt follow the game before release)
I feel as if this game should have been around 25 hours long, and I would have been quite satisfied if that were the case. However in the end it seems like Nintendo took some queues from Rare, and collecting musical notes is a little too close for comfort if you ask me. However zelda always had filler, the main difference here and the reason why I think we've seen many people (including myself) complain about filler is the fact that Skyward Sword takes very little effort to disguise it, doesn't make the player feel purpose in going through it and becomes a grind because of it.
Due to the filler, this game becomes boring with spikes of brilliance. The Dungeons are very well designed and might be my favourite of the 3-d Zeldas, the motion controls are very responsive and might be the only game aside from Zack and wiki where the use of the wiimote genuinely enhances the gameplay. The boss fights are as exhilarating as they've ever been because of both the use of wii motion plus and treating the boss fights as straight up fights instead of showpieces for your newest item. The puzzles are also a refreshing departure from what we're used to, the use of the timeshift stones especially so.
While the motion controls were excellent as a zelda game I was left dissapointed. It didn't live up to the level of quality gameplay I expect from zelda, However when compared to regular games it was still quite good.
7/10
Obviously I'm not a professional reviewer but i cant help but give a score.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: bustin98 on December 30, 2011, 09:24:00 PM
I had an incident while I was away on a trip over Christmas and my cover to Skyward Sword was damaged, I had to throw it out. I did an image search on Google and Bing and wasn't able to find a decent sized scan of the cover. Could someone do a high res scan of it for me? I'll either send an email address it can be sent to or provide an FTP access in a pm.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 30, 2011, 10:43:33 PM
Just finished up the game. I didn't really do any thing with the Thunder Dragon and his boss rush so I just had the 3rd shield for the final bosses. I gotta let the game sink in more to decide if this is my favorite Zelda game over LTTP. For now I gotta give it a 9 if I were to score it based on the slow start and some minor things which could be improved. There was a bit much dialog when you messed up with something like the imprisoned battles. I liked the flying but there would be one minor thing which I think would make it better. If they had it so that you held the A button you could boost until you let go of the button. The other way to fix it would have been to have more of those boost rocks in the sky. Those were really only my issues with the game but in the scheme of things they really didn't make me dislike the game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 05, 2012, 08:40:13 PM
Here are a couple of questions about the Save Data Update Channel:
1. Is it just me, or does the music at the startup sound like something out of Animal Crossing? 2. I noticed the fine print says that if you remove your Shop Channel account, the save data will also be deleted. Does this mean that the save file will become uncopyable if you update?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: SixthAngel on January 05, 2012, 09:54:29 PM
I just got to the desert and I was surprised by the time-shift stones. I can't think of a series that has more thoroughly mined a concept (time travel) yet still managed to come up with such a fresh way to approach it.
It seems like I barely have any items that enemies drop. I managed to upgrade my wooden shield once (since burned away) but I haven't been able to get the monster parts for any more upgrades.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on January 05, 2012, 11:32:17 PM
I just finished that desert part and I too was surprised by the time traveling touch. I thought it was very creative especially how it is worked into the dungeons and puzzles. So far so good for me with this game. I'm in love with it and couldn't put it down today. I turned it on with the thought of playing for 1 hr and trying to make some progress in opening the desert dungeon and ended up putting in a couple extra hours in and finishing the dungeon itself. I don't think any other Zelda game has gripped my attention so much as this one.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: evolution4life on January 06, 2012, 10:59:59 AM
I still haven't picked this up but when I do in the next month or so I fancy getting the limited edition with gold wii remote plus. So I'm just wondered exactly how "limited" is the limited edition? Is it likely to still be available in a few months?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on January 06, 2012, 04:22:41 PM
A few months? Maybe. I still see some on shelves when I go shopping, but I'd act fast, if I were you. I don't think they'll mark the price down any time soon.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on January 06, 2012, 09:06:06 PM
I don't think that the Wiimote edition is still being produced, and it is sold out in most places online. It might be a different story in the UK, but it's already pretty scarce here in North America. Unless you're keen on paying double the price, I wouldn't count on finding the bundle in a couple of months.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on January 06, 2012, 11:05:18 PM
I bought the game about a week ago and have now beat the first boss, Ghirahim. It took me a while to get used to the motion controls after pressing buttons throughout the series. Overall, the game seems to have great potential, but it is not the ground breaker that I thought it would be. Not that this is a bad thing, but I hold a new Zelda game to high standard and then scrutinize it to its full when I get to play it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TheFleece on January 09, 2012, 07:34:38 PM
Still playing this. I got sidetracked due to 3d mario kart land, but I've been putting in good time the past couple of days. I'm up to the glitchy part of the game and I'm about to save and relax for a bit before I get into that ordeal. The game so far is fine, but I really feel like an errand boy in this game. It's get three of these here and go stop that over there and find this for me and all I want to do is hack and slash to victory. The past dungeon designs have been great and the environments have been fantastic, but the supporting characters feel watered down, but even so they still retain their own individuality. Swordplay and controls have been great, item switching is top notch and flying is fine. I really can't complain because I'm having a ton of fun, but the step and fetch feels like chores more than adventuring. If I wanted that I can go talk to Tom Nook instead. Does anyone know where I can find Bee Larvae?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on January 09, 2012, 07:48:49 PM
Use the Beetle to cut down any beehive. When it lands, it breaks and you can just pick it up. Also, I was well over half-way through the game before I realized that you can catch the bees with the net. I didn't really use potions.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on January 09, 2012, 09:25:54 PM
I just finished the first silent realm and about to work my way into a new dungeon. I hate timed portions in games so I can already see I'm going to dread these areas if the game. What really pisses new off is that there shouldn't be any stamina bars in these areas for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 10, 2012, 05:27:18 AM
Well, if you could just outrun any of the Sirens there wouldn't be any sense of impending doom. The sections are about using your previous knowledge about each environment to quickly traverse them and efficiently fill up your Spirit Vessel. You have to plan ahead, deciding which tears to take and which to save for your return trip back out...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 10, 2012, 09:08:49 AM
Yeah I actually liked the Sprit realms thinking back on them now. You can actually out run some of them but not others. You have to use your smarts to traverse the area so they don't trap you. The game does give you enough time to plan out where to go next once you find one of the tears and if you keep a eye out for those things that show where the tears are finding them shouldn't be to bad. Also I used the beacons on some of the spirit realms to keep track of the tears if you have to head back to the safe area for some reason.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on January 18, 2012, 09:34:10 PM
I finally got around to finishing the game last night and I must say, this was, in my eyes, THE best Zelda by far. I really enjoyed the whole experience from beginning to end. I was really worried coming into this game too given all the mixed opinions I've read on these and other forums and my waning enthusiasm for the Zelda series. Now, I've always been a huge Zelda fan and have played them all but after Ocarina of Time, I enjoyed each successive Zelda less and less. It almost became a point of just playing each new release out of a strange feeling of duty as a Nintendo fan. I finished most of them but I never felt the drive to actually finish them, the longer the game went on, the more I had to push myself to continue.
This Zelda really caught me by surprise. I think what really caught my attention and rejuvenated my enthusiasm was the story and characters. There is actually a palpable connection between Zelda and Link. The side characters were memorable and actually funny for once (the repair robot was classic lol). The main villains in this game really lived up to their roles and personalities. Their final forms were some of the best looking models I've seen in this series. The final boss turned out looking like a major bad ass. He was a solid mix of Akuma, Goku at Super Saiyan 4, and Ganon. As for the other aspects, the game play was solid all around. I had very little issues with the control and most my deaths and frustrations were a result of me trying to rush through something. The world provided so much to do and there was very little unused space (with the exception of the sky portions). I know allot of people complained about all the back tracking but I never minded it. I think it helped in creating the illusion of a very living world. Seeing places change made me feel as if time was actually passing.
All in all, I have very little to complain about with this game. I think it has really raised the bar for the series and I can't wait to see where the series go especially on the WiiU given the extra horsepower.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on January 18, 2012, 10:10:34 PM
I finally got around to finishing the game last night and I must say, this was, in my eyes, THE best Zelda by far. I really enjoyed the whole experience from beginning to end. I was really worried coming into this game too given all the mixed opinions I've read on these and other forums and my waning enthusiasm for the Zelda series. Now, I've always been a huge Zelda fan and have played them all but after Ocarina of Time, I enjoyed each successive Zelda less and less. It almost became a point of just playing each new release out of a strange feeling of duty as a Nintendo fan. I finished most of them but I never felt the drive to actually finish them, the longer the game went on, the more I had to push myself to continue.
This Zelda really caught me by surprise. I think what really caught my attention and rejuvenated my enthusiasm was the story and characters. There is actually a palpable connection between Zelda and Link. The side characters were memorable and actually funny for once (the repair robot was classic lol). The main villains in this game really lived up to their roles and personalities. Their final forms were some of the best looking models I've seen in this series. The final boss turned out like a major bad ass. SPOILER (Sorry, I don't know how to use the spoiler tag lol) He was a solid mix of Akuma, Goku at Super Saiyan 4, and Ganon. SPOILER As for the other aspects, the game play was solid all around. I had very little issues with the control and most my deaths and frustrations were a result of me trying to rush through something. The world provided so much to do and there was very little unused space (with the exception of the sky portions). I know allot of people complained about all the back tracking but I never minded it. I think it helped in creating the illusion of a very living world. Seeing places change made me feel as if time was actually passing.
All in all, I have very little to complain about with this game. I think it has really raised the bar for the series and I can't wait to see where the series go especially on the WiiU given the extra horsepower.
Yay someone else who loved the game! I feel almost exactly the same! Now all I need is voice acting and I am set. Flying needs to be more ingrained staple I think. Maybe not a hub sky world but I would love to see it continued and fleshed out. Beyond that I am super happy with the game.
Iansane, have you played this game yet? I know you did, what did you think?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Peteychu on January 19, 2012, 01:53:29 AM
I totally enjoy skyward sword. I think it is a great game and truly a great experience. When I reached the point that most people complain about I thought "that wasn't even that bad... It was actually fun". Plus I love the controls. They felt so satisfying that I can't imaging playing Zelda without them... And I have been play Zelda from the very beginning.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: lolmonade on January 19, 2012, 08:15:42 AM
(Sorry, I don't know how to use the spoiler tag lol)
To spoiler, you type ["spoiler"] before what you want to type and ["/spoiler"] at the end of what you want to be blacked-out. (Take out the " in the tags, it'll look like this: Congrats! You can spoiler!)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on January 20, 2012, 04:32:31 PM
Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Since finishing this game, I've been wondering how Nintendo can replicate some of the sword play provided by the wiimote using the tablet. I was wondering that if they decide to not use the wiimote for the next game in the series, what if they used the right analog stick to replicate the wiimote motions. You can flick the right stick to the right for a slash to the right, up to slash upwards, and etc... you get the picture. Basically the right analog stick will control his right hand during combat. I wonder how that would feel, in my mind it seems to be natural but I'd never know until I actually tried it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on January 20, 2012, 04:43:18 PM
I want the Wii mote again, with even more fleshed out whip controls. I say use the tablet for a 2nd player playing as a helper that doesn't need sword swings to feel good.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on January 20, 2012, 08:50:40 PM
I would love that too but if a wiimote isn't bundled with the WiiU then I don't see that being the main control method. No matter how many people already have wiimotes, if it doesn't come packed in, it'll somewhat split the userbase. I can see them maybe giving you the option to either play with the wiimote or the setup I described above. It'll be serviceable but in no way would it equal the wiimote's accuracy though.
It would be nice though if a revised Wiimote was packed in, one that was rechargable. Onced I switched to a rechargable battery for my wiimote, I can't see me ever returning to batteries again. I don't know why that wasn't the standard from the start.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on January 20, 2012, 09:58:31 PM
I dunno, I would think the vast majority of the userbase would have a WiiMote (or several) before buying a WiiU. But a new Zelda is years down the pipeline and Nintendo will probably still be selling WiiMotes since they're compatible. By the time we get a new Zelda, even WiiU owners who never owned a Wii are gonna have one or two.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on January 20, 2012, 11:08:17 PM
Dorkly Bits: Fi Annoys Link (http://www.dorkly.com/video/30673/dorkly-bits-fi-annoys-link)
Not sure if anyone else here is a fan of Dorkly. They make videogame based animated shorts. This one is pretty apt.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Soren on January 21, 2012, 02:39:10 AM
Finished it moments ago. I have to say overall I loved the game. It had its mixture of good and bad things. Unfortunately most of the bad things are so egriegous that I probably won't be playing this game again. Fight the Imprisioned 3 times? SERIOUSLY? But the good kept me going though.
Good. -Loved the motion controls. It really made the experience better and I felt like my swordplay was getting better as the game progressed. -I didn't mind the silent realm areas. -The Lanayru area was brilliant! -The story really tied together nicely. In fact it was the only thing that kept me going through the finish -Sky Keep was excellent as a final dungeon. -Levias is such a bad ass.
Bad -Too. Many. Fetch. Quests. -My god look at all that padding! -Fi was grating, but at least I was able to tune her out. -Oh hey you're telling me what an Amber Relic is for the 9098059048598th time. -The harp was so clunky, I hate it so much. -Dreaded going into the Sealed Grounds because I thought everytime I went there I'd have to fight the Imprisioned. -The final two bosses were a huge letdown. I think part of what made them "challenging" was the fact that you'd strike blindly trying to find a specific pattern or way to make damage. Once you figured it out it was so easy.
Overall it's a great game. Sadly it's just one I'm not going to play again.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 21, 2012, 04:52:48 PM
So this game presumably sets up a sequel or something showing how the Headmaster becomes the owl?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on January 21, 2012, 06:32:39 PM
So I've finally started playing through this game for real. I'm 12 hours in and just finished the third dungeon. I'm loving this game so far. I had no excitement for it beforehand and since its release I've mostly heard about all the padding it has which is why I haven't gotten into it before now, but man, it's been just about perfect thus far. Love the visuals, love most of the controls, but what I really love is how the areas surrounding the dungeons are structured. They're much more involved than overworlds usually are in Zelda games. The Lanayru Desert was amazing. A series highlight, easily. The dungeons themselves have all been great thus far, the boss fights also pretty solid. Yeah. This game is hitting all the right notes for me right now. It's definitely a Zelda game, but it's different enough to justify it's existence. It's definitely good enough.
Of course, the backtracking is about to start. As is, I assume, the padding. And the Silent Realm. The stuff that seems to be controversial. So we'll see how it goes. Right now though, it's going blow for blow with Wind Waker for my favorite Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on January 23, 2012, 03:08:55 AM
I have been taking ym time with this game so far. I took a few hours to adjust myself to playing with motion controls. I have just reached the desert and so far the game is absolutely good. If the the game up to this point is indicative of what is ahead then I am excited to put more time into this game.
It might be too early to say this, but Skyward Sword might be the new Ocarina of Time in terms of being the best in the series.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on January 25, 2012, 10:30:42 PM
Okay. I just revisited a dungeon. That was kind of bullshit. I mean, it wasn't awful, I was only in there for maybe ten minutes, but having to unlock doors I've already unlocked? That's dumb. I've also encountered the Silent Realm. No problem with that first one. It was stressful, but not cheap or unfun.
Still... the way these areas were the first time you went through them was glorious. Returning for a second time has been still good as you're going to new places, but not as satisfying. We'll see how the rest of it goes but thus far I'm thinkin I would have preferred just more areas to visit.
Still loving it though. Just maybe not quite as much as I was after that third area.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on January 30, 2012, 11:00:38 PM
This thread has become my own personal Zelda log. I'm okay with that.
Just finished the fourth dungeon and DAMN. What a dungeon. It had a bit of an atypical structure (the way you go through it) and a malleable structure (building) that made it memorable. I really like all the dungeons thus far, but that one's the best. Also the whip is a glorious item. It's like the grappling hook with bonus fun. Hope that's used for the rest of the game. I also must say the bosses have also been delightful thus far. When I looked at the boss for this fourth dungeon, I assumed this one was going to be obvious. Not true. It had like four phases and kept going long past the obvious stopping point.
Thus far in my 17 hours of playing, I have enjoyed to varying degrees all but 15 minutes of it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on January 31, 2012, 12:18:44 AM
I just went through the last few pages of this thread for the first time. Am I really in the vast minority here in enjoying almost everything about this game through the first four dungeons or are the fans just quieter than the naysayers? Have I just not yet gotten to the point where everyone turns on Skyward Sword? Do I just have a higher tolerance for the "bullshit" in this game? OH GOD YOUVE ALL MADE ME DOUBT MYSELF.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on January 31, 2012, 01:21:57 AM
No, no. Don't worry. The game is great. Just relax and keep enjoying it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on January 31, 2012, 02:20:58 AM
I really loved this game, so I am totally with you.
Wonder what Ian thought of the game?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 31, 2012, 06:49:06 AM
I just went through the last few pages of this thread for the first time. Am I really in the vast minority here in enjoying almost everything about this game through the first four dungeons or are the fans just quieter than the naysayers? Have I just not yet gotten to the point where everyone turns on Skyward Sword? Do I just have a higher tolerance for the "bullshit" in this game? OH GOD YOUVE ALL MADE ME DOUBT MYSELF.
You just answered your own question. Like everything else on the internet, the haters are just more vocal then the supporter so it looks like more people hate something then actually do.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on January 31, 2012, 09:30:34 PM
Ah good. I didn't think I was alone in liking Skyward Sword but honestly last night I thought I had somehow gone in the Other M thread based on the amount of complaints I was reading.
This reminds me I still haven't beaten Other M.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 31, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
Ah good. I didn't think I was alone in liking Skyward Sword but honestly last night I thought I had somehow gone in the Other M thread based on the amount of complaints I was reading.
This reminds me I still haven't beaten Other M.
Even in the case of Other M, a lot of people here liked that game as well. It's not exactly loved by it's fans in the same way Skyward Sword fans love their game, but a good number of people found Other M to be a pretty decent game overall. Not really praised but still considered a game worth playing because while it suffers from certain flaws, still has enough fun gameplay to make an interesting playthrough and has the potential for a great sequel.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on January 31, 2012, 11:38:59 PM
I don't disagree on any particular point.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: UncleBob on February 01, 2012, 01:30:57 AM
I think the problem with OtherM wasn't as much the gameplay, but it was the storyline and how it fit into the overall Metroid universe. If the game had been tweaked to be an original IP, there probably wouldn't have been much of a complaint on it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on February 01, 2012, 03:45:57 AM
The storytelling is definitely abysmal, but there are gameplay problems also. The lack of energy pellets/missile reflils is annoying. Most everything involving first person is not fun and the controls and lack of movement in those sequences are not good. But still, underneath all of that is Metroid goodness. They just made some questionable/bad decisions with Other M.
Getting this thread back on track, I've finished the second Silent Realm. I like the Silent Realm segments just fine. It's a nice change of pace, it's not nearly as stressful as the presentation suggests, and you get an item when you finish that immediately opens up new areas. Way better than the Wolf Tears or whatever the hell in Twilight Princess.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on February 02, 2012, 01:09:54 AM
The first person stuff bothered me more than anything. I'm glad they put some personality to Samus, but the plot was way too overly dramatic and kinda made you forget she used to be known as a badass.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on February 04, 2012, 06:14:07 PM
THE SAND SEA IS AMAZING.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ThomasO on February 04, 2012, 08:28:07 PM
My quick thoughts on the game...
I have logged 82-83 hours into Skyward Sword so far. I'm in my second playthrough (Hero Mode) and I'm focusing a lot more on getting all the Goddess Cubes and doing all the side challenges. I'm still finding areas I have not seen before. As for the puzzles, they are very well designed, unlike Twilight Princess I never felt lost or completely baffled. In my second playthrough they are just as ingenious as they were the first time. I LOVE the characters of Skyloft-- I am actually more interested in helping them out even more than gaining the rewards for doing so.
The motion controls are solid. I have never had an issue with swordplay and I've often gone for many hours in one go without needing to recalibrate the Wii MotionPlus (pointer controls I do need to reset often, but that never gets in the way of things). However, the only time I don't feel that it's responsive enough is when I'm trying to deflect attacks with my shield and my Nunchuk movements aren't being registered (or I'm just slow).
The 4th and 5th dungeons are my favorite ones, but the last one is pretty awesome too. However, I liked the variety that TP offered, while Skyward Sword did feel like I was revisiting the same dungeons again later on (TP has 9 unique dungeons, Skyward Sword has 7). I'm a bit disappointed in how useless the treasures become later on (especially after you've upgraded everything).
All in all, Skyward Sword is an outstanding game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on February 04, 2012, 09:22:33 PM
I have already made it to the water temple, but I am kind of ticked that I have not yet aquired the bow yet.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Lithium on February 05, 2012, 10:06:50 AM
This thread has become my own personal Zelda log. I'm okay with that.
Just finished the fourth dungeon and DAMN. What a dungeon. It had a bit of an atypical structure (the way you go through it) and a malleable structure (building) that made it memorable. I really like all the dungeons thus far, but that one's the best. Also the whip is a glorious item. It's like the grappling hook with bonus fun. Hope that's used for the rest of the game. I also must say the bosses have also been delightful thus far. When I looked at the boss for this fourth dungeon, I assumed this one was going to be obvious. Not true. It had like four phases and kept going long past the obvious stopping point.
Thus far in my 17 hours of playing, I have enjoyed to varying degrees all but 15 minutes of it.
Yeah the ancient cistern is probably my favourite zelda dungeon ever (and that boss omfg that boss is also the best boss ever) . Anyways, i was one of the people who was being negative about skyward sword in this thread but dont let that deter you. You like what you like, it's just different tastes is all.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on February 05, 2012, 11:03:29 PM
I wish I had Ghirahim's theme music and the sound effects of Imprisoned[/spolier] as a ringtone.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on February 05, 2012, 11:07:52 PM
How is the final boss of this game related to non-Ganon Zelda villians?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on February 05, 2012, 11:49:17 PM
How is the final boss of this game related to non-Ganon Zelda villians?
He's not.
Is he related to Ganon? [/spolier]
Has anyone noticed all of the sexual innuendos with Ghirahim?
To anyone who has seen dragonball (the original, not Z) Ghirahim is basically the general blue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD3YbwTmK7U) of Skyward sword haha.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on February 06, 2012, 12:34:40 PM
It kind of depends on how people interpret his final words. When he says his anger will someday be reincarnated some people think this means Ganondorf is his literally reincarnation. Others view this as more of a metaphor where Demise is saying someone with anger for the gods like his will someday appear and continue his will to spread darkness across the world, similar to how other villains in fiction love to say as long as there's darkness/hatred in the hearts of men they'll always exist because others will continue in some way the same thing they were doing.
So basically there's no correct answer at the moment until either future games outright say what the right answer is or Aonuma says what the right answer is in an interview.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: nickmitch on February 06, 2012, 09:58:25 PM
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on February 08, 2012, 12:37:04 AM
Just beat the fifth temple which was, again, wonderful. I don't have the best memory of all the Zelda temples, but Skyward Sword's seem like a cut above. The only temple I remember from Twilight Princess is that snow mansion one. The set up for the boss fight was awesome. I was kind of hoping the whole fight would have been that insane set piece, but it was great while it lasted. The boss fight was pretty predictable which was disappointing after that set up. I also take back what I said earlier about areas not being as satisfying on the return trip as they were initially. At least with the Lanayru desert, the return trip was just as awesome as the first one. 21 hours in. I have loved 20:45 of that.
RFN has talked about not liking (or not preferring rather) the idea of the areas in this game being segmented from each other. I do agree it was a negative aspect of Metroid Prime 3, but it's not bothering me at all here. In previous Metroids, part of the joy you get towards the end of those games is seeing just how brilliantly connected all the areas are and Prime 3 ditched that completely. That was never an aspect of Zelda games. Lanayru Desert by itself has to be close to the size of all of Ocarina of Time in terms of square footage. Also, is it possible this game has some Mass Effect influence? Skyloft is Zelda's version of the Normandy. The disconnected, segmented areas. Lip service paid to dialog choices. Granted, they're both doing wildly different things, but it's interesting.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TheFleece on February 08, 2012, 05:47:08 PM
So I just beat the game! I really took my time to get through everything not so much as to savor the adventure, but because I have to work I made sure to not rush through everything and take some time to smell the roses. The environments are rich and exciting and they should be absorbed with some appreciation. What I didn't like are Fi and the constant talk about if you do this one last thing THEN you'll be the True Hero. It felt like they were just blowing smoke up my ass and I just wonder if the meaning or intent was lost in translation somewhere. The inclusion of new, but vaguely explained characters was sort of frustrating and I hope they are touched upon in future games. I totally missed the inclusion of Hyrule's inhabitants- mostly many Goron and all of the Zoras and maybe the whole life of the world will one day be experienced in one game. Overall this game is excellent and it's hard for me to imagine how else I would want to play a Zelda game. During the last boss I actually found myself trembling before I swing the sword, the scene was tense and I enjoyed it to the end.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on February 09, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
Sixth dungeon in the bag. That was probably the least good dungeon of the game thus far. It was fine, just pretty forgettable and average. The boss fight was also a repeat, but still good. The lead up to the dungeon was also not the best. That nonsense involving the basin was most definitely filler. It would have been less terrible if they gave some explanation for why you couldn't simply land where you needed to like you do every other time you drop into an area, but they don't. So after arguably the best bit of the game, we get the worst. Again, still fine, just not up to par with almost everything that's come before. I know I'm nearing the end and **** is about to get real. So that's exciting.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: TrueNerd on February 14, 2012, 06:56:59 PM
Skyward Sword, you have been completed.
Um, in case you haven't seen my previous posts in this thread, I freaking loved this game. LOVED. Sure, there were probably 2-3 hours of the 35 hours I spent playing this I could have done without, but everything else was gold. Best dungeons of any Zelda game, best art direction (!) of any Zelda game, most involved overworld, great controls... yeah. In the end, Wind Waker still remains no. 1 in my book, but this came far closer than I was anticipating. Great game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on February 14, 2012, 10:36:08 PM
Glad to see someone else fully enjoyed it. I personally believe it to be the best zelda yet but thats just me. I have to say though that this release revitalized my waning enthusiasm I was having for the series as a whole beforehand.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on February 14, 2012, 11:45:27 PM
I'll also chime in to say this is by far my favorite Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: leahsdad on March 22, 2012, 02:54:26 AM
Glad to see someone else fully enjoyed it. I personally believe it to be the best zelda yet but thats just me. I have to say though that this release revitalized my waning enthusiasm I was having for the series as a whole beforehand.
I think one thing that really sets Skyward Sword apart from Twilight, WindWaker, etc... are the production values, which are ASTOUNDING. Graphically, it takes what the Wii can do and just constantly amazes me. I just stare. The bosses, the way they're animated, the levels, the amount of money, effort, and manpower that must have gone into this is simply mindboggling for a Nintendo game.
BTW, anyone notice that a lot of the art assets, or rather, a lot of ideas are borrowed from Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass? Especially the way the boss doors open, with the little clouds of dust kicking up. And the way arrows are worked into environmental puzzles.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on March 22, 2012, 01:44:21 PM
It's too bad Zelda doesn't perform like 2D Mario or even 3D Mario. I wonder what they are going to try to do to increase sales dramatically? Maybe a full blown top down Zelda?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Enner on March 22, 2012, 03:55:51 PM
You mean something like Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks? Or something with sprites again?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on March 22, 2012, 04:06:35 PM
I guess I kind of meant both. But thinking about the ds titles now I realize that isn't the answer. Seems like so much work and money goes into Zelda but its not ever green like 2d Mario. Not that it needs it, but voice acting and maybe a bigger scope as far as the whole advenure is concerned would broaden the appeal. Cause awesome motion controls sire didn't. Though had this game come out early in the Wiis lifetime it might have taken the world by storm.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Adrock on March 22, 2012, 05:19:40 PM
I agree regarding the scope. Zelda games always feel small despite being so big because the world is so empty. There are like 30 NPCs. It never feels like the world or anyone is in danger. When half of Skyloft fell out of the sky, that entire community should have been flipping out but the denizens of Skyloft either don't acknowledge it or are like, "Gee, what was that?" Do you have any idea how close you people are to oblivion?
Zelda games could also benefit from more courageous storytelling. Skyward Sword is filled with cliches. Link just collects enough plot coupons to trade in for a predictable conclusion. I'm not sure if any of these things will help the games sell better but the games themselves would benefit.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 22, 2012, 06:49:58 PM
It's too bad Zelda doesn't perform like 2D Mario or even 3D Mario. I wonder what they are going to try to do to increase sales dramatically? Maybe a full blown top down Zelda?
Nintendo doesn't need to do anything since Zelda is still one of their top selling series. Look at the actual sales and you'll see the Zelda series has been pretty consistent in sales.
The Legend of Zelda - 6.510.000
Zelda II: Adventure of Link - 4.380.000
A Link to the Past - 4.610.000
Link's Awakening - 3.830.000
Ocarina of Time - 7.600.000
Link's Awakening DX - 2.220.000
Majora's Mask - 3.360.000
Oracle of Seasons and Ages - 3.960.000 (Nintendo combined the sales of both games so we don't now which sold more)
A Link to the Past / Four Swords - 1.890.000
Wind Waker - 3.070.000 (These were the sales Nintendo gave in March 2004, a year after the game was released so the games final sales are higher since Zelda games have legs but we don't know how much higher since Nintendo hasn't said anything since)
Four Swords Adventure N/A - (Never sold a million and Nintendo has never stated it's sales)
Minish Cap - N/A (It's been said it's done over one million but Nintendo has never given offical sales of any kind)
Twilight Princess - 7.140.000
Phantom Hourglass - 4.130.000
Spirit Tracks - 2.610.000
Ocarina of Time 3D - 2.490.000
Skyward Sword - 3.420.000
As you can see the Zelda series is still quite strong. Twilight Princess which was released at the start of the Wii's lifespan is the second best selling Zelda and Phantom Hourglass is the best selling handheld Zelda. Even Skyward Sword which has come out when the Wii sales are at their lowest, has still sold better then a lot of other games in the series and by the time it finally stops selling will end up surpassing several more as well.
The only thing Nintendo's going to do to make the next Zelda sell better is get it out earlier in the systems lifespan since as the sales show, the first Zelda released on each system sells better then the later games released on each system. No surprise since the first Zelda on each system usually comes out when that systems is having good sales while the later ones that sell worse come out when the sales are down.
This is no different then most other video game series as well. When a system is selling better the games on that system usually also sell better, while when sales of the system drop, so do the sales of the games. This is why Iwata himself told Aonuma after Skyward Sword that he want the next Zelda to come out in 3 years instead of 5 since Iwata knows the next Zelda will sell much better on the Wii U in 2014 then in 2016, since Wii U sales will more then likely be much higher in 2014 then in 2016.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on March 22, 2012, 08:17:14 PM
Now is that world wide? I'm going to check between TP and few other franchises like Donkey Kong Country Returns.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on March 22, 2012, 08:23:26 PM
I'm not exactly sure what Zelda needs from here, and it isn't my job to figure that out. I'm not a game designer. But I do think that Skyward Sword is headed in the right direction. The story was mostly boring, so that aspect still needs some work in some such way. But the gameplay was mostly good, I liked the more focused overworld and the dungeon designs and the sword combat. Every Zelda game always has some kind of filler to lengthen it, but I had less issue with that stuff in this game than Wind Waker's Triforce hunt and Twilight Princess's empty overworld and uninteresting wolf segments. Still, they should try to make the whole game interesting all the way through, or shorten it a bit.
In the end, Skyward Sword is definitely the best Zelda game since Ocarina of Time. I can't help but wonder if I'd think it was better than OoT if not for nostalgia... but, maybe not. OoT really is a well-design and well-paced game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 22, 2012, 09:41:15 PM
Now is that world wide? I'm going to check between TP and few other franchises like Donkey Kong Country Returns.
Yes, every sales number I posted was worldwide totals that Nintendo has officially released. The only other series to sell better then Zelda this gen were the Wii (insert name), Mario Platformers, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Smash Bros, traditional Pokemon, Nintendogs, Brain Age and Animal Crossing.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Kytim89 on March 22, 2012, 10:58:21 PM
I just beat Imprisoned for the third time and now the game has me on another fetch quest involving parts of a song. One thing that annoys me about Skyward Sword is that it just has too many fetch quests. I am starting to suffer from dungeaon and fetch quest fatigue with this game. Do not get me wrong, this game is very good, but it is only good in short doses, or atleast for me.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: leahsdad on March 30, 2012, 01:22:50 PM
I am starting to suffer from dungeaon and fetch quest fatigue with this game. Do not get me wrong, this game is very good, but it is only good in short doses, or atleast for me.
Yeah, I was feeling a bit of fetch quest fatigue myself, though to put it into perspective, it's not nearly as bad as the fetch quest in Link's Awakening. Remember that one? Where it was some stupid bartering thing, where you needed something but to get it you had to get like a melon for some rabbit, who would give you a hairbrush for someone, who in turn gave you a letter, etc. etc. etc. for about 9 trades later? That was obnoxious.
I think the most misleading thing that people have said about the game is that it only has 3 areas, which in a way is kind of true but makes it sound like there's only 3 dungeons/temples. I think you have to think of the 3 areas as 3 separate overworlds, or sub-overworlds, or whatever, and their respective dungeons/temples/mining facilities/etc. as the true dungeons, which would really bring the number to more like.....what, at least 7? Or more?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ymeegod on May 12, 2012, 09:59:32 AM
Finally getting around to finishing this game, I'm nearly 4/5 done or so (I'm getting the third "flame" for the sword). Very mixed about the game, it's a great game but it's doesn't have that "epic" feel to it, mostly do to the sub-par characters like your partner Fi or the main villian Lord Ghirahim. Zelda's TP had some great characters like Midna and Zant.
As for the gameplay, flying sucks--you really don't do much other than pick a point and head in that direction. Exploring the open-areas is the same--boring, exploring the levels/dungeons is great though. Combat is great as always. So another worlds it has the same flaws as most zelda games, transportion issues, either Nintendo needs to add more filler quests/objections inbetween points or have a freaking Quick teleport option for those of us that get sick of going back and forth.
Do I consider this the best Zelda yet? No but it's still a damn good way to kill a couple of weekends.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on May 14, 2012, 01:35:19 PM
Yeah it's funny how Nintendo talked about big open landscapes with nothing to do in past Zelda games and how they would fix that. So yeah down on the ground you constantly have to figure out what to do and where to go, but flying is no better than horse riding or sailing in that regard.
I enjoy the flying more because of the freedom, but if we got to fly over huge landscapes with towns or places of interest in between would have been better. I hate that the birds have almost zero interaction with the worlds inhabitants.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on October 19, 2012, 06:34:43 PM
Finally finished this game and then also read the last 20 pages of thread. Boy some folks sure like to complain about stuff. :)
Anyway, absolutely loved this game. Took me about 75 hours and I did just about everything. In fact, I have technically beaten the last boss but declined to save since I want to finish finding Goddess Cubes and may try and tackle Fun Fun Island. Also, there's a pumpkin shooting min-game with Fledge? I had no idea! Gonna look for that too. Oh, and replay the boss rush to get the heart piece. I already got the super-shield long ago. So, yeah, still looking forward to milking some more fun out of this game. Then there's Hero Mode. Might give that a spin, too.
I agree with most of the comments from the folks that enjoyed the game and will only add a few, hopefully novel comments.
Something funny about my experience with the final boss: I never used any Skyward Strikes at all. Just blocked the crap out of him with my indestructible shield and got in a few sword swipes when I could. Usually I could get in one at a time after he bounced off my shield a few times. The when he was charging his sword with lightning, I could get in about three slashes. Just kept going like that until he fell and I could do the finishing move on him. Had to repeat until getting to the finishing move a few times. Maybe when I go back and fight him again, after completing some side-quests, I will try out the Skyward Strike method! I like that this game has options for killing enemies!
I can understand why folks didn't care for the silent realm stuff though I personally really enjoyed these sequences, especially the last one. I fgured since the final realm was Skyloft, I would breeze through it since, by then, I knewe the layout of the area like the back of my hand. Not so! Good job, game.
I am, however, utterly baffled by folks' dislike of the bit where you swim in flooded Faron to collect musical notes. That was one of my absolutely most favourite pieces. It was so cool and trippy swimming through ares that you had only walked through before. I made a point to take two bottles of fully upgraded air potion with me just so I could swim longer and trip around. I loved it. I really enjoyed the swimming mechanic in this game and was greatful for an extended chance to use it. Maybe the fact that the Endless Ocean games are some of my favourites on Wii has something to do with my affection for flooded Faron?
Anyway, I can't recommend this game highly enough. Just very satisfying throughout. So much creativity and fun gameplay that, to me, never got stale or repetitive. There was always something new and interesting to do.
I particularly admired that when the game "re-used" assets, it changed them up so creatively. The familiar was changed enough that you had to re-think your way around the area or, in the case of biosses like the Imprisoned, you had to re-think your approach to defeating him. For each "re-visit", either you were changed (i.e., had new items), the enemies were changed, or the environment was changed. So, it was like a whole new thing to deal with. This is part of what I like about the Metroid games and it is also a part of what I really admired in Batman Arkaham Asylum.
Loved this game.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: MagicCow64 on October 19, 2012, 07:59:54 PM
Yeah, I really liked the water sequence too. Reminded me of the Zora portions of Majora's Mask. Also like the silent realm stuff. Stealth-ish sections go way back in Zelda, don't know why they stick out as out of place for people. I guess it's lingering ill-humor about the Phantom Hourglass repeat dungeon, but then again, I liked the idea of that section and thought they just needed to make the streamlining more clear/satisfying on repeat runs.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: EasyCure on October 20, 2012, 11:09:56 AM
Glad I'm not the only one that took forever to beat this game. I must of finished it last month or the one prior, and according to my save file the last time I played the game was in February. I was already up to the final boss but I didn't want the game to be over (after doing all side-quest etc) so I just kinda let it sit there.
Glad I went back to it though and hopefully I'll have enough time on my hands in the future to do it again in Hero Mode. Would anyone who has played/completed Hero Mode out-line the differences for me? Like, do the enemies only inflict/take more damage or are dungeons switched up as well??
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 20, 2012, 07:15:09 PM
Glad I went back to it though and hopefully I'll have enough time on my hands in the future to do it again in Hero Mode. Would anyone who has played/completed Hero Mode out-line the differences for me? Like, do the enemies only inflict/take more damage or are dungeons switched up as well??
In Hero Mode enemies inflict twice the damage and hearts don't appear unless you equip the Heart Medal. You can also skip certain cut scenes now and the final boss can be fought in the boss rush. Other then that, the rest of the game is the exact same.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: EasyCure on October 21, 2012, 12:44:31 PM
hm, might be a while before I go back and do it all again. I love SS, it's easily one of my favorite Zelda titles in recent ages but I just don't have the kind of time to devote to these types of games anymore, another reason it took so long to complete.
Looking back, the difficulty wasn't TOO great.. I should of done the 6-heart challenge from the very start.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 21, 2012, 06:34:53 PM
Looking back, the difficulty wasn't TOO great.. I should of done the 6-heart challenge from the very start.
If you want difficulty, do the 6 heart challenge in Hero Mode next time you play. Most of the enemies can kill you in only 3 hits since damage is doubled and no hearts to refill health.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on October 21, 2012, 07:02:52 PM
Luigi Dude covered the major changes for Hero Mode, but here are the minor ones:
-You keep your treasures and bugs, but no other items. -You start with the fully-powered Skyward Strike, and can power it up even further. -A couple of characters have dialogue changes (such as Fi), mostly noting that you're playing on Hero mode. -When swimming, the spin move uses twice as much oxygen. -Your minigame records carry over.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on October 22, 2012, 03:28:33 PM
In Hero Mode, do you start with all the hearts you gained from the first playthrough?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 22, 2012, 04:46:39 PM
Looking back, the difficulty wasn't TOO great.. I should of done the 6-heart challenge from the very start.
If you want difficulty, do the 6 heart challenge in Hero Mode next time you play. Most of the enemies can kill you in only 3 hits since damage is doubled and no hearts to refill health.
If I ever decide to play the game again, this is exactly what I intend to do, but as stated earlier I don't really have the kind of time for these types of games. We'll see..
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on August 27, 2013, 02:45:28 PM
LOL...Last person on the forums to finish the game.
My fresh thoughts? Amazing. Epic. Best Link ever. Controls were damn near perfect. Best Ganon ever. Best final boss/boss sequence. Finally, a LIGHTNING STRIKE! Sometimes a Dragon's bitch. Sometimes padded. **** quicksand. Wish there were more than four places to explore. Beetle is the best item ever. Bosses don't die in three's. Need more Zelda's like this. Watching Zelda's story was actually very, very interesting. Makes me think a literal Zelda game might work.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on August 27, 2013, 04:39:56 PM
Your Wrong Stogi. After the epic feat I went through to get this game Day 1 I still haven't beaten it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on August 27, 2013, 05:49:14 PM
I beat Skyward Sword but still haven't beaten Twilight Princess. I'm at the very end but feel no incentive to carry on. But I've done that with games before. Often for me the big appeal is exploring the world and when you're near the end you've done that. The main incentive to complete the game at that point is to conclude the story but lots of a games have piss poor stories so often that doesn't end up being an incentive to me. Zelda in particular isn't going to have some mind-blowing reveal in the ending.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on August 27, 2013, 06:20:36 PM
I pulled the same thing in Okami. Except there I just didn't want to see the game end. I really should beat it because I picked up Okamiden.
I have not even gotten to the first boss in Skyward Sword. I lost focus where you needed to find the little woodland guys. Did not like that part at all.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 27, 2013, 07:21:48 PM
I have not even gotten to the first boss in Skyward Sword. I lost focus where you needed to find the little woodland guys. Did not like that part at all.
Might want to go back and finish it since you're only 10 minutes away from the first dungeon.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on August 27, 2013, 07:49:17 PM
I need to finish this :(
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Shaymin on August 27, 2013, 08:16:58 PM
I didn't buy Skyward Sword when I had a chance to buy it for twenty bucks brand new. Beat that.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Wah on August 27, 2013, 10:47:24 PM
Skyward sword was awesome 9/10! What the hell are you guys talking about!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on August 27, 2013, 11:28:22 PM
I don't know, the ground levels feel so... lonely.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Wah on August 28, 2013, 12:01:29 AM
Not when you have a sacry ass fire demon from hell chasing you!
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 28, 2013, 07:32:28 AM
I bought the game at launch and haven't started it. I have gotten a lot of use out of the gold Wii remote, though.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on August 28, 2013, 02:24:51 PM
What game haven't you gotten at launch but not started? It's like you are too busy managing us turkeys to actually play games ;)
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on August 28, 2013, 04:34:17 PM
There are a few parts that annoy me; mainly the moments where you have to go around the same place you were just in but search for something else. Other than that, this Zelda has some of the best bosses and easily the best ending of any Zelda.
But mainly, I was most impressed by how well you could control Link and how often the game called for the use of a few or all your items. Never did you receive an item and then use it exclusively for the rest of dungeon. And it was so easy to switch items and use each item with accuracy due to how well Link controls. It'll be a serious step back if they abandon the motionplus.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mannypon on September 03, 2013, 12:23:42 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as me Stogi, I too thought it was one of the best Zelda's ever. I think what really got me was how much more personal and deep the story was compared to your typical Zelda' story. The boss battles are also memorable and totally bad ass lol. Controls were top notch for me and I still can't stop singing the praises for the sand/ocean area and dungeon. Amazing. Skyward Sword was the Zelda game that rekindled my love for the series as I admitted at the time of completion that my love for the series had been suffering.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caterkiller on September 07, 2013, 09:49:02 PM
I loved the controls, I loved the weapons, I loved the art style, the music actually sounded happy again, and Zelda had a nice personality as well.
I just hate the way flying was implemented. When we first were given hints and actually saw flight I seriously thought the nameless Loftwing would be replacing Epona. I thought we'd be flying over landscapes, water falls and bottomless pits to reach new towns and such. That was the biggest disappointment ever. It was almost as bad as realizing there really was no other major civilizations in Wind Waker. I just want more than one major town with 2 smaller towns containing 5 people each.
But Aonuma and his team tackled a very important issue they just about everyone whined about. He made sure weapons were constantly used everywhere with multiple ways to tackle certain puzzles and I am super grateful about that.
The over world issue with nothing to do was tackled in a sense but we were given 2 over worlds and the 2nd had nothing to do in it as well.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on September 09, 2013, 12:22:37 PM
I think the inherent problem with flying is the fact that you really can't legitimately box-in in the player, and therefore the player could skip over-world puzzles by simply flying above them. I also don't think flying into arbitrary boundaries to stop this problem would have made anyone any happier.
When I first saw SS, I thought it would be more like Wind Waker with a bunch of floating islands that you fly to. I wasn't happy about it really because it seemed to sub a ship for a bird.
And honestly, there is no good way to solve the problem. Zelda needs boundaries. It's the core factor in making a Zelda game. However, adventure is also a core factor. So it's difficult to find a balance.
Unlike something like Xenoblade where it's (mostly) your inexperience that boxes you in, Zelda is all about dungeons and items. So having vistas and herds of animals, waterfalls and mountains will always feel empty after a while because you can never simply push on in a direction and find your way. There will always be a need to turn around that nags you (sometimes literally), to put you on the set path to ultimately make it to the dungeon.
Now if Zelda can go back to it's original self where you're able to beat any dungeon in any order, then you could actually have the huge Xenoblade vistas. But the story would be lacking (which is actually fine by me).
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 09, 2013, 02:04:27 PM
Now if Zelda can go back to it's original self where you're able to beat any dungeon in any order, then you could actually have the huge Xenoblade vistas. But the story would be lacking (which is actually fine by me).
Even in the original Zelda you couldn't beat any dungeon in any order. Only the first two dungeons can be done at the start without doing anything else. Well you can technically do the third as well but it's extremely hard since with 3 hearts and a wooden sword, the Darknuts in that dungeon take forever to kill and kill you in two hit.
Every other dungeon required some kind of item from a previous dungeon to be completed in the original. So even the original wasn't as non-linear as people remember it to be.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 09, 2013, 02:32:05 PM
Now if Zelda can go back to it's original self where you're able to beat any dungeon in any order, then you could actually have the huge Xenoblade vistas. But the story would be lacking (which is actually fine by me).
Even in the original Zelda you couldn't beat any dungeon in any order. Only the first two dungeons can be done at the start without doing anything else. Well you can technically do the third as well but it's extremely hard since with 3 hearts and a wooden sword, the Darknuts in that dungeon take forever to kill and kill you in two hit.
Every other dungeon required some kind of item from a previous dungeon to be completed in the original. So even the original wasn't as non-linear as people remember it to be.
*shrug* I always did them out of order after the First. Though if I might just go in and grab the item on some run threws. One of the things I really like about the LoZ. Most of the time you could make it threw a dungeon if you had its item.
Also I wouldn't want a game like LoZ with a Huge overworld.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on September 09, 2013, 05:58:18 PM
I think being less strict in regards to dungeon order would be a good thing just simply because it shakes up the Zelda formula. Much of Zelda's charm is in exploration and discovery and if the games are too formulaic both of those no longer apply. A lot of the gameplay is in puzzle solving and that doesn't work if it's all predictable tropes. By its very design, the series requires novelty to provide enjoyment. So going a little off the beaten path in the design is the way to go.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 09, 2013, 07:57:17 PM
I think Nintendo needs to take a few lessons from the Mega Man series. They need to have dungeons and bosses that can be beat in any order, but that have shortcuts and bosses that have weaknesses if you have the correct items. You could even have multiple dungeon masters/monsters so if you take a different path you can still beat the game. You could still lock a few dungeons away with story elements that would make those dungeons later levels...but there is something magical about the original Zelda's open world that you accidentally fall into a dungeon and it could be any of the dungeons.
Zelda should be about exploration, and mystery. Knowing you are on a quest to stop a great evil, and needing to collect relics and weapons to achieve your purpose, but not knowing exactly where to go. Needing to gain clues to solve the mysteries of the world and creatures that inhabit the world. Make the game epic, but not because of bloated story, but because you are in a open world filled with wonder and mystery. I think less is more. I would go the route of Metroid and have fewer NPCs and cities...creating a feeling of isolation...and rewarding players with clues to the story and the world when you meet NPCs.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stogi on September 10, 2013, 06:49:13 AM
What do you think about a Zelda where Link has all the items already?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on September 10, 2013, 09:52:54 AM
What do you think about a Zelda where Link has all the items already?
I think it could work, but I don't think most players would like it.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ceric on September 10, 2013, 11:31:22 AM
Spak-Spang I already feel that Zelda games are pretty lonely as they are. Also about twice as long as they need to be.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Caliban on September 10, 2013, 03:15:44 PM
I sure wouldn't mind to play such a game, Stogi. "*Zelda speaks to Link* Here. You have all the items you will ever need. Now go out and explore the planet... *Link gets kicked down into a valley* IKE!!! I will meet you on the other side." Thus making you explore one half of the planet with Link, and the other with Zelda.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Ian Sane on September 10, 2013, 05:43:33 PM
I think if you already had all the items a certain thrill of the series would be gone. One thing I love in Zelda is to see things early on that I can't access but I know I need some item to get by. Then there's that moment when I find the item and I immediately think "hey, I can now access that place and that one and that one". There is build-up to solving a simple puzzle that probably just gives me a heart but it really adds to the excitement of the game. The only way they could recreate that thrill while giving you all the items is with some really clever interconnected puzzle solving, kind of a Myst approach.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 10, 2013, 05:55:17 PM
Giving you all the stuff from the beginning would take away from the adventure of it. There's a reason every Metroid game comes up with a convoluted reason why Samus lost all her abilities. Getting stronger as you go keeps things fresh over the course of the game, and really makes you feel a sense of accomplishment as you progress.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 10, 2013, 06:23:45 PM
On the other hand, what if you started with all the series conventional items, and then everything you gained in dungeons was a brand new item? Then you'd still start with a lot of tools to get around and still find new stuff too.
It would be difficult to do that of course, but not impossible. Banjo-Tooie, for example, has you start with all the moves of the first game, yet you still learn dozens more new ones throughout the game. Of course, not every game can be as amazing as that one...
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 10, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
I could see starting with the bow, bombs and boomerang, as those have been in pretty much every game and form the basis of Link's standard move set. Maybe the hookshot. Then have him get the other things over the course of the game. To flip it around, they could pull a Mario Sunshine and have stretches of the game where you lose some or all of them and have to deal with being without items you've come to depend on.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Stratos on September 11, 2013, 06:38:54 PM
Didn't they do this in Ocarina? Take away your items when you were captured by the Gerudo and you had to find them again during your escape?
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 11, 2013, 07:37:11 PM
Didn't they do this in Ocarina? Take away your items when you were captured by the Gerudo and you had to find them again during your escape?
Also did the same thing in Oracle of Ages and Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: ShyGuy on September 11, 2013, 09:15:02 PM
I remember one game, I can't remember which, maybe Deus Ex?
Anyway they took your weapons and items away and you had to escape, but if you didn't find you cache of weapons before you left the level, the items were gone forever. :(
Title: Re: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Post by: Mop it up on September 12, 2013, 07:31:53 PM
I remember one game, I can't remember which, maybe Deus Ex?
Anyway they took your weapons and items away and you had to escape, but if you didn't find you cache of weapons before you left the level, the items were gone forever. :(
Chrono Trigger has a part like this, though fortunately the game warns you if you are about to leave without finding all your stuff.
