Topic: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?

[Kairon]

Figured I'd ask an "Elephant in the room" type question!

Basically, we all know the Switch is using a modern NVidia graphical architecture (it's friggin' Vulkan compliant guys!), and we know that major industry game engines like Unreal Engine 4 and Unity are both onboard for Switch support. On the other hand, I think things are shaping up that it's in no way going to be a brute strength hardware powerhouse.

Then we throw in Nintendo's historical difficulty in creating a platform that third-parties enjoy and... well, do you think they'll make any progress on the switch?

I mean, YES, we MIGHT get a Skyrim port, there's rumors (grain of salt alert!) of a Dark Souls port... but are those false signals or wishful thinking?

Personally, I think the Switch will make significant strides in making it TECHNICALLY easier for third parties to support it. Modern game engine support will have a very noticable effect on third-party support I believe.

HOWEVER, I have very tempered expectations on any idea of a 3rd party resurgence overall.

I think we seem to have a lot of third parties excited to port older games, which is nice but we've seen historically is not likely to set anything on fire (see: Wii U year-old ports).

Also, I feel like we're seeing lots of third parties "testing" the waters again with token games, which again is not going to convince anyone of a real sea change here. We might get a single token Madden from EA, we might get NBA 2k17, we might get a bone thrown at us from others...

For all the excitement, I think there's a ton of inertia the Nintendo Switch will struggle against with third-parties entrenched into a mindset that ignores the Nintendo ecosystem. This will probably be especially prevalent in the mega-budget/super-premiere parts of the industry where companies are making huge bets years ahead of time and can't afford to get distracted by yet another platform as they near the finish line.

And of course, there's the question of whether Nintendo can create a platform where third parties can sell games, or at least certain types of games, or where third parties can find a non-risky way to survive. A major part of changing this issue will probably be just Nintendo trying to create as much of a Switch userbase as possible, building as much of a foundation for the platform, and pricing the hardware correctly in the market to create both demand and accessibility.

However, I DO think things are getting better. Launch is always exciting, modern game engines will make a significant difference, the hardware's concept could very well prove a strong lure, and hopefully indies are as excited about the platform as we are!

I think the most tantalizing hope, which may or may not prove true, is that the handheld world of developers comes to the Switch. This is sort of what's left of the mid-tier third party segment, and also part of what's left of the niche Japanese third party devs segment (that said, also some of the PS4 segment really). It'd be great if all the projects that drove passion for the PSVita and the Nintendo 3DS came to the switch without reserve in the future. And it'd be great if the titans of this segment also made the switch their new home.

I, for one, will be extremely excited if they announce Monster Hunter for the Switch. That game has a very significant following, and it's amazingly proven the ability to move its fanbase from the Sony ecosystem to the Nintendo 3DS.

I'm also very excited to hear that Dragon Quest XI is coming to the Switch! That's a pretty big vote of confidence from Square Enix and a major public signaling to consumers that they can expect Japan's premier RPG on the Nintendo system.

Ultimately, I think we'll see real progress here, true progress, but also slow progress with lots of inertia to overcome and the ball in Nintendo's court to prove that a game-hungry, game-buying userbase for third parties exist. I'm basically expecting things to get better... but at a rate that might get Nintendo back to equity, assuming everything continues going well, over the course of six years, not two.

[Spak-Spang]

Honestly, I expect Japanese Developers wanting to support a handheld/console to support the Switch with no problems, and so I expect that market of game to be strong. 

When it comes to Western Developers I think they will support it with Ports only if it is relatively painless to support the system.  I expect any Western Developer that can easily just do a digital release for the Switch may support it.  But I realistically don't expect much support.  3rd parties know that this is market that you only have to support 2 game systems.  They may just realize the reward for supporting Nintendo is not worth it. 

[ejamer]

Much like Spak-Spang, I don't expect any meaningful support from major developers outside of Japan. Indie developers will probably provide the usual digital-only games as long as porting is easy, but even there it's hardly a sure bet.

Before Nintendo can attract third parties to Switch they need to prove that the system:
* allows porting code from XBox and PlayStation with very little effort,
* has a massive install base,
* has an audience that will buy third-party games, essentially without any regard for quality

If any one of those points misses then it will be the same old excuses about support not really being worth their while. Even if all of the points come true, I think that most third parties will be skeptical about supporting Switch and not make it part of their core business plan.

Can't really blame them though: the bridges between Nintendo and third-party developers have long been shaky (and often alight).  It's easy to say: "this time it will be better," but why would third parties bother making a change unless their success is a sure thing? It doesn't, and they won't.

[ShyGuy]

Japanese third parties will come to the Switch, and that will attract some people who like the kind of Japanese games Nintendo handhelds get, but want to always play on the TV.

Indies will support the Switch, Nintendo has relationships and a reputation with Indies from the Wii U.

The big boys, we will see. I'm sure we will get stuff at first if nothing else. I suspect more support from Ubisoft, Activision and Warner Bros than EA and 2K.

We may see some PC focused developers give it a try due to the new Nvidia platform.

Mobile publishers will give it a try as well, depends on how much Nintendo allows F2P gaming on the Switch.

[UncleBob]

No.

[Soren]

As discussed on RFN, the realistic best case scenario is the Switch snatches developers from the Vita once that system is finally laid to rest.

[NWR_insanolord]

Best case scenario is it's the GameCube. Easy enough to port to from the other consoles with enough of an install base to get a lot of, but by no means all, multiplatform releases.

Worst case is it's the Wii U all over again, not as easy to develop for as was initially claimed with third parties abandoning the platform nearly completely after poor sales of early titles.

My honest guess is it ends up right around the middle of those two, where it does just well enough to get some amount of support, but still misses an awful lot.

[Kairon]

Best case scenario is it's the GameCube. Easy enough to port to from the other consoles with enough of an install base to get a lot of, but by no means all, multiplatform releases.

Worst case is it's the Wii U all over again, not as easy to develop for as was initially claimed with third parties abandoning the platform nearly completely after poor sales of early titles.

My honest guess is it ends up right around the middle of those two, where it does just well enough to get some amount of support, but still misses an awful lot.

Man I'd LOVE to have a GameCube situation on my hands here! Heck, even an N64 situation!

[Evan_B]

No.

[nickmitch]

Not really.

[Luigi Dude]

Man I'd LOVE to have a GameCube situation on my hands here! Heck, even an N64 situation!

Ok lets not go that far.  The Wii U's third party support wasn't great but still better then the N64, which easily has the worst third party support of any Nintendo system.  The Wii U at least had a steady stream of good indie titles on the eShop to make up for the lack of retail games while the N64's third party support was nearly non-existence everywhere with maybe one decent title from them once in a blue moon.

Of course on the issue of the Switch support, it 100% falls on how well Nintendo can drive up the install base during the first year.  This is the reason why Nintendo's making a hybrid in the first place because they know they can't fully support 2 systems at the same time anymore and know third parties aren't going to give them the time of day unless they jump through hoops, something Nintendo isn't going to do.  Third parties were getting ready to drop 3DS support for fucks sake after it's first few months, despite the fact the DS was a monster, which is one of the reasons Nintendo dropped it's price so much so soon.  They know unless their system is successful third parties, even the Japanese ones that should be one board will cut them at a moments notice. 

Right now as others have said, I'd at least expect the system to be a Japanese games paradise unless Nintendo truly fucks something up in that market.  Assuming the price it's too damn high or they **** up the lineup, the Switch should easily dominate that market.  Hell if Nintendo has a strong enough lineup, don't be surprised if the Switch in it's first year surpasses the PS4's lifetime total in Japan, which should make Japanese third parties port everything they can, assuming it's easy enough to do.

The West should at least give us a great supply of indie titles since even the Wii U managed to get a lot of them.  Retail third party support will probably be crap even if the system is easy to port since the market for violent realistic dudebro games that most of the major Western third parties continue to pander to is perfectly happy with what they've been getting on Playstation and Xbox since 2001.  Even if we get some ports early on these games will probably sell like **** on the Switch since the audience for them has no reason to jump from Microsoft and Sony.  Now if Breath of the Wild is huge it might create a decent audience for open world games that will make third parties willing to port these to the Switch but I don't see something like Splatoon building an audience for Call of Duty even if the Switch version of Splatoon ends up being a 10 million plus seller for obvious reasons.

[Ian Sane]

I don't because I feel there are already excuses being made.  The rumoured power doesn't sound all that hot.  Like maybe good enough ish but at this point we need a clear "this baby can run any PS4 game no sweat" not wishy-washy nonsense.  Wishy-washy means underpowered.  Now this is a portable system so that's a pretty good excuse for inferior specs but that isn't going to improve support.  Nintendo never really seems to fully fix problems, they just kind of do half ass solutions that make things less worse.

I think what Nintendo needed before going hybrid was a generation of good console third party support and then they would have enough clout to get around inferior specs on a hybrid.  Well the timing for that was the Wii U and that was totally botched so now what?  Nintendo just expects everyone (devs, retailers, customers) to cut them slack and make exceptions for them.  You need clout to get people to do that.  Nintendo hasn't had that kind of clout in 20 years yet they never accommodate others and expect everyone to jump through hoops for them.  Someone else going with outdated specs to do a hybrid could probably expect third parties to accommodate them.  Who is going to accommodate Nintendo, particularly when they've never had less clout than right now?

The concept is cool and could sell but it will need games.  But third parties won't bring the game until it is a success.  I think the only way third party support becomes good is if the Switch can sell really well entirely on the strength of the first party output for the first year or so.  Imagine if the Wii had the technical chops where ports were possible what its sales frenzy would have attracted.

[pokepal148]

No.

[Mop it up]

Too early to tell. The Wii U support sounded promising before it launched, but we all know how that went. The current situation feels eerily similar.

I'm certainly not expecting much support. I'm expecting it to go like Wii U, a few key third-party titles in the first year, and maybe a few here or there, and then that's it.

[Luigi Dude]

The concept is cool and could sell but it will need games.  But third parties won't bring the game until it is a success.  I think the only way third party support becomes good is if the Switch can sell really well entirely on the strength of the first party output for the first year or so.  Imagine if the Wii had the technical chops where ports were possible what its sales frenzy would have attracted.

Well that's technically what the Switch can be if things go well.  Unlike the Wii, all reports at least show the Switch is capable of running the kind of engines third parties are making their PS4/One/PC games on.  Even though it's lacking on power, it should at least be scale-able which the Wii never was.  I mean look at right now how a lot of Japanese third parties make their games for the PS4 and Vita, so realistically the Switch shouldn't have issue getting ports from Japanese third parties at least. 

The wild card is the West which is way more bearish on Nintendo and never even bothered to support their handhelds even when the DS was a monster outside of pure shovelware ****.  So even if the Switch can run these games and is a success, I'm not sure if Western third parties will even care.  Which is kind of the reason Nintendo has no problem going with weaker hardware to save money in the first place since they know Western third parties are no guarantee to support them even if they tried to match Microsoft and Sony in pure specs alone while their fellow Japanese don't care as much and will be forced to support them if the system is a success because of the handheld nature of the device.

[Stogi]

The 3DS is 6 years old and it's sold out this christmas. If Nintendo can successful merge it's console and handheld markets, I don't see a scenario where third-parties avoid the Switch.

[ThePerm]

Yes and No. I don't expect third parties to fall in love with Nintendo. That is unless full disclosure this will be up-gradable and already has multiple SKUs. I'm ignoring all rumors on process power, because their probably bullshit. The RAM thing though is more likely. This system might skimp on RAM. However, that might not be as much of a problem on a cart based system.

Developers might treat this well. They might see this as the powerful mobile they've been waiting for all these years. If Mario Kart is a pack in with the system then this system will sell itself. Nintendo might have another Wii on its hands. Mario Kart is a great game, but could become a killer app if it's both portable and demonstrable. The little joycons sound clunky now, but if you're at a party with 2 pro controllers and a joycon then you have a fun party.  Smash Bros, Sould Calibur, Tekken, and some shooting game. Then you have an amazing party.

[Adrock]

Closer to 3DS level support than Wii U. Switch will get some but no where near all major third party multiplatform games.

[BranDonk Kong]

No, I expect you to die.

Oh sorry, wrong question.

[Evan_B]

I just wanted to drop by and say that, yes, this thing is going to be a Japanese games machine. That's all I can hope for.

[Ian Sane]

There's hope that the sort of third party games that appeared on the 3DS will also show up on the Switch.  But one wrinkle I can see in this is the Switch is an HD system.  The 3DS was more Cube/Wii level so it was still a cheaper system to develop for so we got smaller Japanese games that used to be commonplace on consoles but are mostly just on handhelds now.  The Switch will cost more to develop games for so can those third parties afford to support it or will development be like AAA console games where each game is so expensive to make that everyone plays it safe because one dud will kill off a company?  Is there a threat that those games may move to phones simply because the development requirements for a Switch game are just too expensive?

I can see the Switch being not powerful enough to get console games and too expensive to develop for to get handheld games.  There's a risk in being the middleground and not working well for anyone.

[Stogi]

Unless you're going for an AAA title, Ian, I don't see HD gaming being restrictive. You have several indie developers making games for PC and the threshold hasn't stopped them yet.

[Khushrenada]

But one wrinkle I can see in this is the Switch is an HD system.  The 3DS was more Cube/Wii level so it was still a cheaper system to develop for so we got smaller Japanese games that used to be commonplace on consoles but are mostly just on handhelds now.  The Switch will cost more to develop games for

Just because a system is capable of HD graphics doesn't mean a game released on it has to be. Hello, Minecraft. And Indie developers on Wii U and the other consoles.

[UncleBob]

I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?

Not counting Indie developers (who are great and will generally put their games onto any platform that can run them), meh.  Except Skylanders, if there's even going to be a 7th game.

I'm part of the problem, sure - but I haven't bought much for third party on the Wii U (Skylanders aside, Need For Speed was a *lot* of fun.  Shame EA had to be dicks about it.) or the 3DS.

I buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games.  Third party games that come along are a bonus, not a necessity.

[KeyBilly]

Everything you said makes sense, Kairon.  The 3DS was my favorite platform of this generation, and I expect that support to follow, with various console style games from big developers to see if it is worth it for them.  If Nintendo goes for the rumored $250 price point and actually makes enough of the hardware, the install base should be large from the first year.  The question is if there are enough people who are willing to take a hit in graphics and AI, plus lose their current XBOX/PS online system of choice, to have portable gaming.  If not, then it isn't much of a loss in my opinion, although it hurts the messaging that the Switch is a console first.  NVidia has done the work to make downports as easy as possible, and the Indie games that don't need much power anyway should come over.

In other words, I expect great third party support, but not a replacement for a PC or PS4.