Topic: Wii Owners Need A Voice

[Kairon]

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blogArt.cfm?artid=22598

  It's a never-ending blame game: Third parties blame the Wii audience for hard-to-predict game sales and Wii owners blame game makers for not making games they want in the first place. And no one is actually trying to sit down, talk, and listen.    

It's almost not fair: game makers don't complain about not knowing what gamers want on the other consoles. The hardest of the core audience on the XBox 360 and PS3 are very vocal about just what it is they want to spend money on, and they're over-represented in all the traditional venues, print magazines, internet haunts, or caffeinated tv channels for technology and gaming media. Game makers can simply visit these hotspots for feedback, inspiration, and a rich connection to their audience.    

   

Wii owners have caught up to and surpassed the other console owner groups in the total amount of software they purchase.

   

But for Wii owners? We purchase more software than either of the other two console audiences, but there's no single place we've been invited to gather and there's no collective voice we've found to champion our values.    

It's no wonder game makers are simply throwing games against a wall and watching to see if anything sticks. Failing to have an open dialogue, so much of what's left is guesswork. Which I guess means little or no marketing or attempt to build word of mouth. Which I guess would make things hard for a game on any system.    

   

This hardly seems the best approach for making successful games.

   

Of course, Nintendo doesn't seem as hindered by this as everyone else. But that's not because Nintendo is a first-party. It's because Nintendo's always been trying to find out what gamers aged 2 to 92 find fun in a game. They've been doing this ever since the last time they showed the industry that gaming wasn't just a hobby for 18-25 year old males.    

If only Nintendo could take the progress they've made with getting what Wii consumers really think (Nintendo Channel ratings, Club Nintendo polls, Nintendo Power) and create a unified process or channel that the majority of Wii owners can participate in. If it was quick and easy, then Wii gamers could start to relate what we've enjoyed about the games we bought, what we found meaningless or disappointing, and what we'd love to see next.    

   

This Club Nintendo Survey for New Super Mario Bros. Wii shows that Nintendo is always keen to know the purchasing habits of its consumers... and Santa.

   

Without that sort of opportunity, how can Wii owners create the solidarity we need to respond to critics or the will to demand what we want from game makers? How can we create a community to educate each other, and game makers, about what's a good game and what's a bad one?    

It doesn't even have to be Nintendo who brings us all together. Amazon.com can already be a more democratic and telling insight into the Wii owner's heart and mind than Metacritic. But we need something, anything, even if just one way, in which people can easily understand our joys, dreams, and trials.    

Otherwise, we may be 60 million strong and growing, but no one can hear our cries.    

   

Wii are the silent majority.

[NWR_Lindy]

Nice blog, Kai.

I'd like to think that NWR is a collective voice of sorts, but we aren't an aggregator site so we tend to get lost in the overall noise.  I think that game makers that mine our readerbase (Jesse at Medaverse, Pearl Harbor Trilogy folks) find that we're a really good untapped resource, though.

[Jonnyboy117]

Really good post. Would read again.

[MoronSonOfBoron]

I'd like to think that NWR is a collective voice of sorts, but we aren't an aggregator site so we tend to get lost in the overall noise.  I think that game makers that mine our readerbase (Jesse at Medaverse, Pearl Harbor Trilogy folks) find that we're a really good untapped resource, though.

Yes, but where are all the hot soccer moms?

[greybrick]

We can't just assume that Wii "gamers" comprise the majority. Gamers being in the traditional sense of the word. Does the Wii sell the most? Yes. Does the Wii sell the most software? Yes. Are there more Wii owners than HD console owners that would describe themselves as gamers? Weeelll. Do the majority of Wii owners have a deep investment in the future of software on the system? No.

I don't want to come off as a troll, but I think the notion that there is no open dialogue through which Wii owners' voices can be heard is silly. I would argue that the store shelves are the plainest way to communicate exactly what Wii owners want. People vote with their dollars, and by in large not in the sense that I will buy game A simply because I support its idea, but rather in the sense that I will buy game A because I want it or it appeals to me in some way.

 But, you say, many people blindly buy Wii games. The kind of voice you say Wii owners need, they already have. Sites like NWR are the internet "haunts" but surely the Wii has been spoken about in hundreds of popular web venues, I have seen plenty of Wii TV ads, and the Wii has most certainly graced the cover of many a magazine. This is indeed partially how the Wii achieved such mainstream success.

The Wii does have a voice, and it is the voice of mainstream consumers that will buy what they see or hear about because it looks fun or healthy. They simply are not preoccupied with what comes next, or if the next zelda game uses motion plus, or if MadWorld succeeds, or if Red Steel 2 turns out to be good. The core gamer has a voice entirely separate from the larger voice of Wii. Wii has become a household word, it has penetrated the market, it just hasn't dominated the mindshare.

[ShyGuy]

When cooking spaghetti, you can take a noodle and throw it against the wall to see if it sticks. If it does, your pasta is ready. If not, let it boil longer.

[Kairon]

When cooking spaghetti, you can take a noodle and throw it against the wall to see if it sticks. If it does, your pasta is ready. If not, let it boil longer.

I prefer to simply remove one noodle, cut it open and examine the cross-section. If there's still a different color in the middle, it isn't done yet. The cooking, and the color, has to be even all the way to the core of the noodle.

People vote with their dollars, and by in large not in the sense that I will buy game A simply because I support its idea, but rather in the sense that I will buy game A because I want it or it appeals to me in some way.

But, you say, many people blindly buy Wii games. The kind of voice you say Wii owners need, they already have. Sites like NWR are the internet "haunts" but surely the Wii has been spoken about in hundreds of popular web venues, I have seen plenty of Wii TV ads, and the Wii has most certainly graced the cover of many a magazine.

I agree that consumer purchases speak for themselves, but that's communication after the fact, and it's a messy way to get data, rife with complicating factors and the potential to "learn the wrong lesson." Not to mention, it's expensive for game makers.

As for Wii's presence in media outlets, I think these are doing a better and better job, but I don't know if they support a consistent and evolving dialogue over what Wii owners want and value. Long-term communication and community will be invaluable for game makers to make games that have better chances of being successful.

[greybrick]

I agree that consumer purchases speak for themselves, but that's communication after the fact, and it's a messy way to get data, rife with complicating factors and the potential to "learn the wrong lesson." Not to mention, it's expensive for game makers.

As for Wii's presence in media outlets, I think these are doing a better and better job, but I don't know if they support a consistent and evolving dialogue over what Wii owners want and value. Long-term communication and community will be invaluable for game makers to make games that have better chances of being successful.

But if Wii games are outselling other console games I am not sure what you are upset about. It is not a crapshot when guessing what will succeed on Wii. Sure, carnival games surprised us all (though one would expect at least one game like that to do well), but when it comes down to it are you really genuinely surprised with the consistent top sellers on Wii? Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Kart Wii, NSMB Wii, Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus. What sells the most? First Party Nintendo games that are backed with their wonderful marketing strategies.

What I was trying to get at in my previous statement is that the only people that are truly interested in letting publishers know what they want outside of purchasing are the core gamers of which there are an insignificant amount on wii. Who do you think fills out Club Nintendo Surveys? It sure as hell isn't Daddy, Mommy, Billy (maybe Billy) or Sarah. For the time being, developers that seek success try and riff off of the obviously flourishing first party titles (see: EA Sports active) and some hit while most don't. The problem is that Wii gamers are getting what they want already, but the core Wii gamers aren't. Two different things.

[KDR_11k]

I don't want to come off as a troll, but I think the notion that there is no open dialogue through which Wii owners' voices can be heard is silly. I would argue that the store shelves are the plainest way to communicate exactly what Wii owners want.

Not if the options they want aren't represented.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't want to come off as a troll, but I think the notion that there is no open dialogue through which Wii owners' voices can be heard is silly. I would argue that the store shelves are the plainest way to communicate exactly what Wii owners want.

Not if the options they want aren't represented.

supports above comment with obligatory link to 3rd Party Wall of Shame

[Kairon]

But if Wii games are outselling other console games I am not sure what you are upset about. It is not a crapshot when guessing what will succeed on Wii. Sure, carnival games surprised us all (though one would expect at least one game like that to do well), but when it comes down to it are you really genuinely surprised with the consistent top sellers on Wii? Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Kart Wii, NSMB Wii, Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus. What sells the most? First Party Nintendo games that are backed with their wonderful marketing strategies.

What I was trying to get at in my previous statement is that the only people that are truly interested in letting publishers know what they want outside of purchasing are the core gamers of which there are an insignificant amount on wii. Who do you think fills out Club Nintendo Surveys? It sure as hell isn't Daddy, Mommy, Billy (maybe Billy) or Sarah. For the time being, developers that seek success try and riff off of the obviously flourishing first party titles (see: EA Sports active) and some hit while most don't. The problem is that Wii gamers are getting what they want already, but the core Wii gamers aren't. Two different things.

I agree with everything you're saying Greybrick. But I'm actually not talking about core vs. casual or third party vs. first party. I'm not trying to argue that we are, or aren't, getting games that we do, or don't want. (In fact, some could say that as a Wii gamer I'm getting PLENTY of games I want....)

Instead, I'm just talking about the Wii audience being able to make their opinions and feedback known, and for game makers to be able to listen to them. And I do mean that in a context beyond the vocal core gamers. I mean that for everyone in the Wii consumer base. They ALL deserve a voice, some way to share their values, and that will aid better game making efforts in the future.

Until then, there's a skewed and incomplete discussion about what gaming means to millions of people out there.

[Stogi]

I always just try a strand of spaghetti to see if it's ready....

[NWR_insanolord]

The problem, if you can call this a problem, is that Nintendo has reached such a vast audience with the Wii that it's impossible for it to be represented by one voice. The needs of ours are different from the needs of someone who only bought the Wii for Wii Sports and Wii Fit and maybe one or two other games, which are different from those of core gamers who only bought the Wii for Nintendo's games and have no interest in anything else. Things that are important to some of us aren't important to others, and it's hard to find a lot of common ground.

[donssword]

Is Nintendo sharing their survey data with 3rd party developers? Between Wii recommendations, Nintendo Club memberships, and other efforts at surveying, I wonder how close Nintendo holds these cards to their chest.

It reminds me a lot of the 3rd party complaints with the Gamecube. Does Nintendo still not make enough efforts to support 3rd party development on their hardware with this new generation? Does Nintendo even care?

I can't stop wondering about the differences in how distribution is handled between the consistent top selling 1st party games like Mario Kart, and potential 3rd party hits that slip by, like GTA: Chinatown Wars. What is the disconnect?

[Pale]

The Nintendo channel has incredibly valuable data on all games.  The problem is that it is only relevant to those players who use the Nintendo Channel.  That number is probably significantly smaller than the Wii consoles in the wild.

I think this speaks directly to greybrick's point.  It's worth considering that the majority of Wii owners couldn't be bothered to speak their voice regardless of the venue.  If this is the case, there is nothing anyone can really do about it.  It is one of the few problems with Nintendo's broad market success.  The only statistical indicator that can get at those mute owners is the NPDs.  What do they show? That most people just take the safe bet and buy games that have the word "Wii" in them, which is first party titles.

We also need to consider the possibility that even if all those mute owners did find a place to speak their voice, the result wouldn't be the one that members of this forum want.  Publishers could very well discover that their most financially viable decision is to make as many mini-game collections that feature popular licensed characters as possible.  One of the many reasons 360 and PS3 get more high budget traditional third party titles is that the target audience of such games makes up a larger percentage of the consoles market share.

This is nothing new for Nintendo.  When the NES achieved mass market success, one of the reasons was their hard stance against titles that may not be considered family friendly.  The Genesis got the version of Mortal Kombat with red blood, remember?  And there was a large portion of Nintendo players that put all of their blame on the game developer because they didn't understand the reason behind the decision.

I think it's pretty clear that the kinds of games that would NOT make this forum's asinine "third party wall of shame" would not ever be commercially viable on the Wii.  They would not sell enough to account for their massive budget.

That's one of the reasons why Wii won't ever be a lead console for a game like Modern Warfare 2 and anyone who longs for that is just setting themselves up for disappointment.

[greybrick]

But if Wii games are outselling other console games I am not sure what you are upset about. It is not a crapshot when guessing what will succeed on Wii. Sure, carnival games surprised us all (though one would expect at least one game like that to do well), but when it comes down to it are you really genuinely surprised with the consistent top sellers on Wii? Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Kart Wii, NSMB Wii, Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus. What sells the most? First Party Nintendo games that are backed with their wonderful marketing strategies.

What I was trying to get at in my previous statement is that the only people that are truly interested in letting publishers know what they want outside of purchasing are the core gamers of which there are an insignificant amount on wii. Who do you think fills out Club Nintendo Surveys? It sure as hell isn't Daddy, Mommy, Billy (maybe Billy) or Sarah. For the time being, developers that seek success try and riff off of the obviously flourishing first party titles (see: EA Sports active) and some hit while most don't. The problem is that Wii gamers are getting what they want already, but the core Wii gamers aren't. Two different things.

I agree with everything you're saying Greybrick. But I'm actually not talking about core vs. casual or third party vs. first party. I'm not trying to argue that we are, or aren't, getting games that we do, or don't want. (In fact, some could say that as a Wii gamer I'm getting PLENTY of games I want....)

Instead, I'm just talking about the Wii audience being able to make their opinions and feedback known, and for game makers to be able to listen to them. And I do mean that in a context beyond the vocal core gamers. I mean that for everyone in the Wii consumer base. They ALL deserve a voice, some way to share their values, and that will aid better game making efforts in the future.

Until then, there's a skewed and incomplete discussion about what gaming means to millions of people out there.

I know that you weren't making the core vs. casual argument, I brought that  in. My point being that as a core gamer, you care about this and see it as a problem. I don't think the millions others out there care to share their values as much as you assume they would. My mom, who will casually play games, could care less if "there's a skewed and incomplete discussion about what gaming means to millions." She, like most Wii consumers, only cares about what comes next and that is only after it pops up in one of her other media forms.

[Plugabugz]

Did you really throw pasta on the wall as an illustration for us?

[D_Average]

Radio Free Nintendo is our voice. Which thinking about that now, I find it interesting that it is the only Nintendo centric podcast worth listening to. However, there are dozens of quality HD Twins podcasts to listen to. Is this a reflection of where the core market resides?  Possibly.

[Peachylala]

The Genesis got the version of Mortal Kombat with red blood, remember?  And there was a large portion of Nintendo players that put all of their blame on the game developer because they didn't understand the reason behind the decision.

Correction, it wasn't. NoA's censorship at the time caused this to happen. After the backlash that NoA received, ERSB was founded.

[King of Twitch]

Here's my voice: no more Petz or Imagine! ___ games, Wii Sports knock-offs, or games based on Barbie, Bratz Shrek, Spongebob, or M&M's; not now, not in the future, not for my neighbor's autistic kid, not for Wii 2, not ever. I will never buy these games. I expect Game Cube level graphics.

If you think my opinion doesn't matter and will never be profitable on Wii, go to Canada.

[ShyGuy]

Why does Pale so hate the third party wall of shame?

[greybrick]

not for my neighbor's autistic kid

You a**, I feel bad for your neighbor.

If you think my opinion doesn't matter

You said it for me.

[Stogi]

I think you guys missed Kairon's entire point....

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think you guys missed the entire Kairon's entire point....

what goes around comes around.....

[MoronSonOfBoron]

A lot of his blog post was inspired by a discussion with me, where I posited that Wii owners don't have the traditional consumer subculture as that of PS360 and thus it is difficult for game developers to provide appropriate quality products.

What insanolord said earlier in this thread is true: the Wii audience is very new and encompasses many differing interests. However, "impossible" isn't in the entrepeneur vocabulary. I think someone will eventually "tap into" the Wii zeitgeist and form a more cohesive (if not respected) Nintendo identity. As I implied in my earlier "moms" comment, you should remember that NWR, as "professional" and "reasoned" as its community may ever claim to be, is but an infinitesimal slice of the total Nintendo consumer base.

Don't alienate them; champion them! Right now, developers don't respect them, other gamers don't respect them... all because no one understands them, and there's no channel through which they can be understood. They might not even know they have a voice to be heard.