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SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Quantum-Ant-Man-ia)
ThePerm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpmpdwxW9Lw
I wonder how deep it goes...
Stratos:
Updated thread title for Hawkeye a bit late and just threw Spidey in as well since that should be releasing soon.
ThePerm:
For years I read all these comments about "How does spider-man make such a crazy suit? How could he possibly make such a suit without help?"
And the answer has always been Spiders weave webs. Spider-man has superhuman knitting and sewing skills.
also What If The symbiote suit found Miles Morales in the MCUverse. Has this ever happened in the comics?
nickmitch:
Did anyone else watch the Spider-Men?
Adrock:
--- Quote from: nickmitch on December 22, 2021, 05:04:48 PM ---Did anyone else watch the Spider-Men?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
This is the spoiler thread so I'm not tagging anything.
Loved it. Not perfect (back to that later), but it may sneak into my Top 5 MCU movies. That may be post-No Way Home hype and/or the Spider-Man fangirl in me talking. I'll revisit the list once I calm down.
Great job by Marvel/Sony for playing up Far From Home's ending in the trailers then mostly resolving that grander implications of it until the end so No Way Home can tell the story it actually wants to tell. Grade-A Charlie Cox cameo, pulling double duty. First, it's a perfect way to reintroduce the character and formally introduce him to the MCU. More importantly, narratively, it works. He hand waves away Peter's legal liability so the plot can move forward. It should be noted again that almost every MCU hero legally gets away with **** they shouldn't so it's a little weird that it was played up in this one.
The plot is nonsense if you think too hard about it. The most obvious narrative shrug being Peter could have asked Dr. Strange to make everyone forget about Quentin Beck/Mysterio. If that's too vague, Dr. Strange is also too smart not to ask Peter to really think about what he's asking before casting the spell.
We also don't know why these five specific villains (technically six) were pulled into the MCU. Dr. Strange theorizes they all knew Peter's identity, but Electro never learned this info in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. The movie even acknowledges this at the end when Peter unmasks in front of Electro (shout out to that excellent Miles Morales tease). Because of the multiverse, they may all be Variants so it still works.
The writers did an excellent job of cherry picking when it came to the other non-MCU Spider-Man movies. They took what worked, what was needed for this movie, and retconned what they had to. For example, in the Raimi movies, Norman Osborn was not publicly known to be the Green Goblin. For a more egregious change, Electro is like a completely different character. Again, maybe Variants? The writers also had some fun with the weird **** Sony did when left to its own devices (i.e. dunking on Rhino, falling into midnight sand experiment/vat of eels).
I can't stress enough how good a job the writers did here. The margin of error was very large, but they pulled it off. At the same time, there's clearly a template. Spider-Man: No Way Home works for the same reason the Avengers movies work: Completely separate movies do much of the heavy lifting. That's why the payoffs work so well here, and they were all earned. Dr. Octopus stops fighting once his inhibitor chip is fixed, and saving Peter is exactly what he would do. Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man preventing Tom Holland's Spider-Man from killing Green Goblin works because he learned that lesson about vengeance twice. Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man saving MJ gives his character some closure. We all kind of knew it was coming when MJ falling was shown in the trailer, but I was still there for it. Garfield acting totally sells it too.
This is also the first MCU Spider-Man film to understand Spider-Man as a character. I like that we've had a new take on the character since his introduction in Captain America: Civil War because we didn't need the origin again, but I also wanted to see a truer version in the MCU. We finally got the "great responsibility" line and it was marked by the death of someone close to Peter (because it has to). He is a character defined by tragedy yet he will always do the right thing even at a great personal loss (though here, with some help from his counterparts). No Way Home gets this without falling into full-on misery porn. If we get more MCU Spider-Man films, I want to see Feige and co. do more with this side of the character, again minus the misery porn.
Willem Defoe straight up knocked it out of the park. His performance may actually be better than his original in 2002. He was ungodly amazing in No Way Home, stole most scenes he was in. That laugh after no-selling Spider-Man's punches gave me chills. Alfred Molina was similarly excellent. Thomas Haden Church and Rhys Ifans recorded new lines but didn't film new footage.
My personal gripes are mostly minor:
* The pacing is a little off in places due to how much is packed into this movie though the movie didn't feel overstuffed to me like say, Spider-Man 3 did.
* The MCU Spider-Man films rely way too heavily on Peter-keeps-fucking-up-because-he's-inexperienced-and -naive. It seems like he's finally moved past that, but this may be Holland's last go as the character (really hoping that's a red herring, and he's just taking a well-deserved break).
* Tobey Maguire kind of phoned it in. Credit to him though for showing up because the movie wouldn't have worked as well without him. Andrew Garfield, on the other hand, looked super-stoked to play Spider-Man again and possibly for the last time. His performance was so good despite his limited screentime.
* While No Way Home can work without the non-MCU Spider-Man movies, you get the most out of it by having watched them first. The movie plays to its expected audience extremely well. It isn’t a movie I’d recommend to anyone else though.
* The Spider-Men synthesizing cures for the villains in a high school chemistry lab over what, like a couple hours is hilarious for the wrong reasons.
* Dr. Strange's final spell seemed ill-defined. It raises way to many questions to be wholly satisfying, and I have a feeling it'll get retconned though I'm hoping Marvel/Sony don't.
TL;DR: Spider-Man: No Way Home is the best of the MCU Spider-Man trilogy, the best Phase 4 anything yet (haven't seen The Eternals but doubt it tops this), and one of the best MCU anything to date. Watch for Spider-Men, stay for Willem Defoe's return as Green Goblin.
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