Author Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)  (Read 173571 times)

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Offline nickmitch

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
« Reply #550 on: November 05, 2021, 02:45:14 PM »
I'm glad you liked it! I was considering going to see it this weekend. I missed F9, so my last movie experience was Black Widow. I'd been feeling a little down lately, but my mood has been on an upswing, so I'd like to carry that momentum with a good viewing experience. Might go tomorrow.
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
« Reply #551 on: November 06, 2021, 03:50:50 AM »
I'm glad you liked it! I was considering going to see it this weekend. I missed F9, so my last movie experience was Black Widow. I'd been feeling a little down lately, but my mood has been on an upswing, so I'd like to carry that momentum with a good viewing experience. Might go tomorrow.

Unfortunately it's not hard to beat Black Widow. Bottom tier MCU in my opinion. In fact it's the first MCU movie that I didn't bother finishing my rewatch after home release. I'll shelve that with Guardians 2 in the movies I have no interest in ever watching again.

Eternals seems to be very divisive, at least among critics. I've very curious to see what the consensus is here. On another forum I frequent my post singing its praises was bookended by two other posters hating it. I for the life of me can't wrap my mind around it but it's definitely out there. Hopefully you enjoy it as I did.


Offline Plugabugz

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
« Reply #552 on: November 07, 2021, 03:14:04 PM »
I quite liked Eternals for its completely different visual design. I'm 99% sure its critical dislike comes from the fact that its so different rather than anything specific to do with the movie itself - which lends perfectly to why WandaVision's unique look is so well liked over any of the following D+ shows.

The valet was by far my favourite character for bringing a completely warm and humble attitude to these characters.

I'm more interested in where this goes next and where we're going in this story, but i hope Marvel Studios takes the opportunity to keep swinging for something different.

However, Disney and other studios are fast developing an issue what i call "gay on paper" where they make a LGBT character that, when you delete one sentence or scene, they stop being LGBT at all and has no bearing upon the rest of the story in any way - like it never existed except on notes on the side of a script. Jungle Cruise also did this earlier this year. Big points though for pairing a black american with a lebanese guy, because the *other* issue is how non-white pairings is almost never seen in mainstream media. Given that Sersi and Ikaris get to play out their love story over the centuries and we get that one scene, it feels like Endgame levels of barely trying.

Offline Stratos

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
« Reply #553 on: November 08, 2021, 04:43:59 PM »
The complaints I've seen for Eternals seem to be around the story and its scope. They try to get you interested in like 10 new characters not to mention villains and side characters, and cover this grand scope. Sounds like they needed an extra film or two to lay out the foundation for a lot of folks. Too large of a cast of new folks so everyone's scenes and plot parts are too short or rushed or flat out neglected. Also seems like a bigger version of the Captain Marvel complaint where they work in a major character retroactively that leads everyone to ask "where were they in Endgame?" Its always tough to do that.

Its cool to see how much you liked it Shorty. Probably one of the most glowing takes I've seen from the film and you mention things others from both sides don't even bring up.

I will say the trailers all don't do the film any service. The jokes about "heroes heroically standing around" was my take from the trailers and promo shots.

Though honestly everything post-Endgame feels a bit underwhelming. Either its because nothing can quite follow up after that conclusion or they are struggling to lay the road for things in phase 4.
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
« Reply #554 on: November 09, 2021, 01:46:12 AM »
As much as I just adore the movie I'm not blind to the issues. It certainly does have them. But I just loved it so much that they didn't bother me in the slightest.

Introducing ten new characters as well as a whole new side of the MCU is certainly a big ask, and you're quite right that they probably should have done it across two movies or a series. But given they chose to use one movie I think they did it about as well as they possibly could have under the circumstances. And for me it worked beautifully. Maybe I'm just a tiny niche of whom this movie really ..... spoke(?) to. I don't know, but whatever the case, I think the faults are well and truly outweighed by the praise.

I can certainly say that I very much look forward to the sequel and dearly hope Ms Zhao is once again holding the reins. If this is what she can put together with the scope it had I cannot wait to see what she can do with something tighter.



Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
« Reply #555 on: November 26, 2021, 07:36:16 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpmpdwxW9Lw

I wonder how deep it goes...
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Offline Stratos

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #556 on: December 12, 2021, 07:58:46 PM »
Updated thread title for Hawkeye a bit late and just threw Spidey in as well since that should be releasing soon.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #557 on: December 22, 2021, 12:38:12 AM »
For years I read all these comments about "How does spider-man make such a crazy suit? How could he possibly make such a suit without help?"

And the answer has always been Spiders weave webs. Spider-man has superhuman knitting and sewing skills.

also What If The symbiote suit found Miles Morales in the MCUverse. Has this ever happened in the comics?
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #558 on: December 22, 2021, 05:04:48 PM »
Did anyone else watch the Spider-Men?
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Offline Adrock

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #559 on: December 27, 2021, 02:21:23 AM »
Did anyone else watch the Spider-Men?
Yes.

This is the spoiler thread so I'm not tagging anything.

Loved it. Not perfect (back to that later), but it may sneak into my Top 5 MCU movies. That may be post-No Way Home hype and/or the Spider-Man fangirl in me talking. I'll revisit the list once I calm down.

Great job by Marvel/Sony for playing up Far From Home's ending in the trailers then mostly resolving that grander implications of it until the end so No Way Home can tell the story it actually wants to tell. Grade-A Charlie Cox cameo, pulling double duty. First, it's a perfect way to reintroduce the character and formally introduce him to the MCU. More importantly, narratively, it works. He hand waves away Peter's legal liability so the plot can move forward. It should be noted again that almost every MCU hero legally gets away with **** they shouldn't so it's a little weird that it was played up in this one.

The plot is nonsense if you think too hard about it. The most obvious narrative shrug being Peter could have asked Dr. Strange to make everyone forget about Quentin Beck/Mysterio. If that's too vague, Dr. Strange is also too smart not to ask Peter to really think about what he's asking before casting the spell.

We also don't know why these five specific villains (technically six) were pulled into the MCU. Dr. Strange theorizes they all knew Peter's identity, but Electro never learned this info in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. The movie even acknowledges this at the end when Peter unmasks in front of Electro (shout out to that excellent Miles Morales tease). Because of the multiverse, they may all be Variants so it still works.

The writers did an excellent job of cherry picking when it came to the other non-MCU Spider-Man movies. They took what worked, what was needed for this movie, and retconned what they had to. For example, in the Raimi movies, Norman Osborn was not publicly known to be the Green Goblin. For a more egregious change, Electro is like a completely different character. Again, maybe Variants? The writers also had some fun with the weird **** Sony did when left to its own devices (i.e. dunking on Rhino, falling into midnight sand experiment/vat of eels).

I can't stress enough how good a job the writers did here. The margin of error was very large, but they pulled it off. At the same time, there's clearly a template. Spider-Man: No Way Home works for the same reason the Avengers movies work: Completely separate movies do much of the heavy lifting. That's why the payoffs work so well here, and they were all earned. Dr. Octopus stops fighting once his inhibitor chip is fixed, and saving Peter is exactly what he would do. Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man preventing Tom Holland's Spider-Man from killing Green Goblin works because he learned that lesson about vengeance twice. Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man saving MJ gives his character some closure. We all kind of knew it was coming when MJ falling was shown in the trailer, but I was still there for it. Garfield acting totally sells it too.

This is also the first MCU Spider-Man film to understand Spider-Man as a character. I like that we've had a new take on the character since his introduction in Captain America: Civil War because we didn't need the origin again, but I also wanted to see a truer version in the MCU. We finally got the "great responsibility" line and it was marked by the death of someone close to Peter (because it has to). He is a character defined by tragedy yet he will always do the right thing even at a great personal loss (though here, with some help from his counterparts). No Way Home gets this without falling into full-on misery porn. If we get more MCU Spider-Man films, I want to see Feige and co. do more with this side of the character, again minus the misery porn.

Willem Defoe straight up knocked it out of the park. His performance may actually be better than his original in 2002. He was ungodly amazing in No Way Home, stole most scenes he was in. That laugh after no-selling Spider-Man's punches gave me chills. Alfred Molina was similarly excellent. Thomas Haden Church and Rhys Ifans recorded new lines but didn't film new footage.

My personal gripes are mostly minor:
  • The pacing is a little off in places due to how much is packed into this movie though the movie didn't feel overstuffed to me like say, Spider-Man 3 did.
  • The MCU Spider-Man films rely way too heavily on Peter-keeps-fucking-up-because-he's-inexperienced-and -naive. It seems like he's finally moved past that, but this may be Holland's last go as the character (really hoping that's a red herring, and he's just taking a well-deserved break).
  • Tobey Maguire kind of phoned it in. Credit to him though for showing up because the movie wouldn't have worked as well without him. Andrew Garfield, on the other hand, looked super-stoked to play Spider-Man again and possibly for the last time. His performance was so good despite his limited screentime.
  • While No Way Home can work without the non-MCU Spider-Man movies, you get the most out of it by having watched them first. The movie plays to its expected audience extremely well. It isn’t a movie I’d recommend to anyone else though.
  • The Spider-Men synthesizing cures for the villains in a high school chemistry lab over what, like a couple hours is hilarious for the wrong reasons.
  • Dr. Strange's final spell seemed ill-defined. It raises way to many questions to be wholly satisfying, and I have a feeling it'll get retconned though I'm hoping Marvel/Sony don't.

TL;DR: Spider-Man: No Way Home is the best of the MCU Spider-Man trilogy, the best Phase 4 anything yet (haven't seen The Eternals but doubt it tops this), and one of the best MCU anything to date. Watch for Spider-Men, stay for Willem Defoe's return as Green Goblin.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 04:11:08 AM by Adrock »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #560 on: December 27, 2021, 04:52:13 AM »
Because Sony wants too keep making billions of dollars of Spider-man expect:

The Amazing Spider-man 3 (Andrew)

The Web of Spider-man (Tobey) - I imagine some Dr. Strange 2 Sam Raimi stuff is going to go down with Tobey. Make it a TV show.

The Spectacular Spider-Man (Tom) - The home series is over, Tom is now able to go forward as a man without the need for father figures.

It would also be interesting to find out that they all have hand web powers, they just didn't know it. The fact that they can synthesize it artificially is just a result of Spider-knowledge.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 05:02:51 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #561 on: December 27, 2021, 09:26:48 AM »
Great summary, Adrock. That movie felt very Spider-Man. I loved the scene where they're all sitting around waiting for the big fight to begin and just comparing notes about being Spider-Man. That little group therapy session felt really good for me as the viewer because it gave each character something they've never had before: kinship.

Ned trying to figure out if the other Spider-Men have a 'Ned' in their lives was hilarious to me. It reminded me of that episode of Rick and Morty where Jaguar asks if he has infinite daughters and Rick replies "No, just me".  Spider-Man is the only constant. Sorry, Ned.

I was really blown away by the acting throughout. It felt like everyone was giving it their all. Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus might've had their best versions in this film.

Speaking of Strange/Peters's decision-making, I thought it was weird that Peter needed Ned and MJ to "Scooby-Doo this ****". I wasn't entirely sure what they did other than look up news articles. The phone being taped to Peter also felt unnecessary. But it did keep the group together, so I went with it.

Such a great movie all-around. Easily in my top 5 MCU just from the years' worth of payoff. I also think the movie gives some commentary on other superhero films, MCU in particular, by having Peter insist on reforming the villains instead of letting them die.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #562 on: December 27, 2021, 02:42:07 PM »
That has always been an issue in comic book movies. The Dark Knight left the Joker alive at the end, but unfortunately Heath Ledger had passed away. Killing villains in their first outing is bad for franchises. Thor did this right. Which is why we were able to have the Loki series. Although, Loki has died a bunch of times.
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #563 on: January 01, 2022, 04:39:33 PM »
Adrock summed up my thoughts very nicely too. But I'd add two small nitpicks I found:

1. JJ didn't have the clever wit and snark that he had in the Raimi movies. He was a far more matter of fact, no nonsense reporting. Technically this is a different JJ so I can understand it as per the lore, but it's still disappointing.

2. I would have liked Tobey and Andrew's Spider-Man outfits to have been differentiated a bit. They are very similar and when in motion it's somewhat difficult to pick out who was who. Obviously they were going for full nostalgia with their original outfits but adding a dash of colour, or maybe even another classic design on one of them would have been nice.

Aside from that it was a wonderful time and probably the best quality Marvel offering this year. The patrons at our theatre viewing were cheering and applauding when the other Peters arrived and at when Andrew saved MJ (best moment in the movie in my opinion). Having said that I enjoyed Eternals more (I don't know why but I did).

Also, congrats to Jon Watts for being the first director to complete a trilogy for the MCU.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
« Reply #564 on: January 02, 2022, 03:58:14 AM »
Amazing Spider-man and Amazing Spider-man 2 had such radically different tones that we could argue that they are in fact different universes.

The Amazing Spider-man 2 suit was great, what I like in a Toby style Spider-man suit. But The Amazing Spider-man suit is so different that it's actually cool. The main problem with it, I assume is that it's made of rubber. I've seen some cosplay printed versions of the suit that have the same look, but are probably comfortable.
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