Topic: Why is GCN considered to be a failure?

[VideoGamerX]

dogman85, you're not believable. Most of what you say is wild, so suffice it to say I think you need list some sources for just about everything you said or admit you're wrong.

For starters, the Xbox was hacked well before the Nintendo Gamecube. That's common knowledge to anyone who reads gaming news on the internet. Even now, hacking the Gamecube is not worthwhile, and what they did manage to do broke headlines, despite the fact that they can't pirate anything playable.

On the topic, I don't view the Gamecube as a failure. It failed to recapture the market lead, but in business terms, it has been successful. I was chatting with a Nintendo representative just today, and he pointed out that Nintendo has posted a profit every single year, and not only that, but Nintendo's profits have increased every year. Sony definitely can't claim that. The thing that I found alarming was that Nintendo has increased their market share every year too. My guess is that the Gameboy Advance is largely responsible for that.

The facts are, the Gamecube is making money. The Gamecube payed for itself in the first year, which, as the NOA rep. pointed out, means that the Gamecube must have been selling well. Neither the PS2 or the Xbox posted profits in their first year. Which means, Nintendo was very happy with the Gamecube. Those are the things that matters to them.

And just to throw it out there one more time, Nintendo is still the market leader in video games, both as a developer and as a hardware manufactuer. Nintendo still holds the majority of the market, comprising more than half of the video game industry. Chew on that.

If Nintendo holds even half the market... that means Sony and Microsoft make up the other half.

And another thing, I know we all hear about Nintendo marketing better and doing more advertising, but has anyone noticed that the only video game commercials on channels like TBS and Sci-Fi are ALL Gamecube now? I watch the Atlanta Braves play on TBS just about every game, and it's all I see. There is no Xbox or Playstation2 anywhere. Seems like Comedy Central is getting that way too. All I can say is kudos to the Big N. Those are some good channels to take over, and they're both geared toward older audiences... who'd have thought? :-P

[VoodooMerlin]

N64 a failure? Don't even begin to believe it. The system got it right for it's intended audience from the get go.

Indestructible cartridge format. A console with non-moving parts. Unique texturing. Colorful graphics. Mario. Zelda.

Many people still play the system every day and continue to buy and sell used games for it in video game stores everywhere. I've been a game tester, I've been a Nintendo dealer, a Sony dealer and a Microsoft dealer.......there's still action on the N64......and next to none on the rival Playstation. I still play mine......all 3 of them.

Cube? It isn't a failure. It's unique. It appeals to fans of Nintendo. You have to love, appreciate and understand what drives games like Mario and Zelda.....creaters like Miyamoto.....and Nintendo's special brand of fun, lighthearted "escape from reality" games. If I want to play real golf.....I'll head down to the local golf course. When I fire up a Nintendo console I want to hit balls around silly imaginative unrealistic courses. THAT'S why I play my Cube. Escapism.

I think the reasoning for most of this was said by the first few posts. It's now trendy to bash and hate.....anything. Especially when companies like Nintendo go against the accepted grain. I've spent so much time on all of the consoles at work that my head hurts just thinking about it. Funny how the only system that I kept when I left the industry IS my Cube. Why? More VARIETY in TYPES of software available. It's the system that I know I WON'T get bored with.

What do all of you guys care what some stupid magazine or website says is a failure or not? You obviously all own and like the Nintendo GameCube......or you wouldn't be here, right? Play what you like for your OWN reasons......and don't worry about what anyone else says.

[thecubedcanuck]

Quote
there's still action on the N64......and next to none on the rival Playstation.

Now that is an outright lie, PS1 games still sell and still rent in fairly large numbers.

The reason many deem the cube a failure is because Nintendo planned on selling a certain number of units and have FAILED to reach those numbers, thus in the context set forth by nintendo it is indeed a failure at this point.
Is it a good console? Yes, of course it is, is it meeting expectation? No it isnt.

Other reasons that cause the word failure to reer its ugly head are, that it cant seem to pull away from a first time console maker in Mircrosoft and that it isnt gaining any ground on industry leader Sony. In business these are considered failures. Nintendo is making money on consoles but that trend will not last forever with a declining user base, eventially you dont sell enough to make money, that is the real concern IMO.

It is obvious that Nintendo has become a niche console, catering to a select type of gamer. Hopefully that type of gamer increases in numbers instead of declines, otherwise failure will become very easy to spot.

[Bartman3010]

The N64 and GCN arent failures. However, Nintendo did sort of give up on the N64 near the end of its lifespan. It was a bad move, but since the N64 is very costly to develop for, its quite hard to support a console that sucks out a lot of money and put out bad sales. Of course, at the beginning, Nintendo had it made. They should've dropped down the price of cartridges or looked for a cheaper way to produce them.  

[Hostile Creation]

cubed, you're right about the rental and purchase of PS1 games nowadays, but I imagine that's all a factor in backwards compatability of the PS2.  That's something Nintendo couldn't do, and it's part of their movement forward.

And I still play my N64 And heck, they still have a ton of games up for rental at the nearest place.  No Xbox or GC games, though.  Curse them.

[BrianSLA]

I think Gamecube is considered a failure in that Nintendo was once the king of video games, it lost it's crown and is now in third place. Xbox isn't a failure in that the Xbox is Microsoft's debut console and the Xbox has foward momemtum..... Xbox sales are increasing, the Xbox library is increasing and the Xbox is getting spectacular games now ( SWKOTOR ), etc. Xbox has a buzz going with it that it will only get better. You don't get that feeling with the Gamecube. The Gamecube isn't going to be #1 or #2 this generation. The big games aren't that big or they are not megaselling. And it seems like Nintendo is considering the Gamecube the ugly deformed daughter to locked away and chained in the basement, out of sight from the public. It seems like Nintendo is writing off this generation and looking foward with their next gen console to try to compete.  

[dogman85]

Quote
Originally posted by: VideoGamerX
dogman85, you're not believable. Most of what you say is wild, so suffice it to say I think you need list some sources for just about everything you said or admit you're wrong.

For starters, the Xbox was hacked well before the Nintendo Gamecube. That's common knowledge to anyone who reads gaming news on the internet. Even now, hacking the Gamecube is not worthwhile, and what they did manage to do broke headlines, despite the fact that they can't pirate anything playable.

On the topic, I don't view the Gamecube as a failure. It failed to recapture the market lead, but in business terms, it has been successful. I was chatting with a Nintendo representative just today, and he pointed out that Nintendo has posted a profit every single year, and not only that, but Nintendo's profits have increased every year. Sony definitely can't claim that. The thing that I found alarming was that Nintendo has increased their market share every year too. My guess is that the Gameboy Advance is largely responsible for that.

The facts are, the Gamecube is making money. The Gamecube payed for itself in the first year, which, as the NOA rep. pointed out, means that the Gamecube must have been selling well. Neither the PS2 or the Xbox posted profits in their first year. Which means, Nintendo was very happy with the Gamecube. Those are the things that matters to them.

And just to throw it out there one more time, Nintendo is still the market leader in video games, both as a developer and as a hardware manufactuer. Nintendo still holds the majority of the market, comprising more than half of the video game industry. Chew on that.

If Nintendo holds even half the market... that means Sony and Microsoft make up the other half.

And another thing, I know we all hear about Nintendo marketing better and doing more advertising, but has anyone noticed that the only video game commercials on channels like TBS and Sci-Fi are ALL Gamecube now? I watch the Atlanta Braves play on TBS just about every game, and it's all I see. There is no Xbox or Playstation2 anywhere. Seems like Comedy Central is getting that way too. All I can say is kudos to the Big N. Those are some good channels to take over, and they're both geared toward older audiences... who'd have thought? :-P

You make several good points videogamerx, but there are some things i still need to say
Regarding the hacking of the Xbox, the actual guy who did it was interviewed, and he stated that the Gamecube (as well as the PS2) were extremely simple to hack into, and that he felt the Xbox was a major challenge
Think about it, who do you think can program security better, Microsoft or Nintendo? (please don't fanboy this answer up)
as to GC failure, this topic as about why it is CONSIDERED a failure. I agree with you that it is by no means an actual failure, it's just people aren't used to the idea of Nintendo losing(be it 2nd or 3rd place). Xbox has momentum right now, and will no doubt surpass the GC in worldwide sales by the end of the year.

Most people believed the Xbox was going to fail before it came out, but when it didn't, people needed a reason other than Halo. It seems that reason is Nintendo screwed up.

And please, don't point out that Nintendo owns half the market, because we're talkin about home consoles, not the GBA. Nintendo is profitable primarily because of the GBA, not the Gamecube, just like Microsoft is profitable (much, much more so) because of its PC Software, not the Xbox
If you saw all those commercials, than that's good Hopefully it will shaddup all the ppl saying Nintendo isn't advertising enough

Additionally, I believe Nintendo is a leader as a developer only in Japan(them and their friggin hamtaro...lol), and Electronic Arts is selling more in America (don't quote me on that though)

[VoodooMerlin]

I'd like to know where the people who see all of this PS1 rental and sales "action" live. Don't count the stale selection at Walmart. They bought too much at clearance costs. My store was nothing BUT PSX worshippers......it ended up that there were only two people that rented PSX with any regularity after the PS2 price drop. We ended up taking a loss on rental inventory just by having to convert it over to used inventory. You can't give the stuff away in our area (Southern Ontario). People use PSX stuff as trade-in fodder towards next gen games. The N64 STILL continues to sell in large numbers. Compared to it the PSX is relatively dead.

[Ninja X]

We're talking about the Gamecube here, not Nintendo itself.  One person brought up a very good point that Nintendo may have a good amount of market share, but most of that is attributed to the GBA.  

I don't consider the Gamecube a failure, but I don't consider it a success by a long shot.  It'll be a while before I start to consider it a failure.  For me, the Gamecube so far just fixes up N64's major errors, such as the cartridge format and development difficulty.  However, they haven't done much to change their image.  RESIDENT EVIL IS NOT ENOUGH, NINTENDO!  They are making better relationships between third-parties, but we would see the better results of this come in the next-generation.  Market-wise, what happened?  Nintendo and their ads have ended up hurting the Gamecube more than anything else.    

Games-wise, it's up to opinion.  We cannot call a console a failure just because of its game because it is all opinion.  This is what I ultimately judge a console by and I've been a little disappointed with the Gamecube...lot of these games don't thrill me the same way they did on the N64.   Super Mario Sunshine didn't match up to Mario 64.  The Wind Waker is the worst Zelda yet IMO.  Despite having more games, it seems like the N64 has a better library.  However, the GCN has 2-3 years left and it still has great games coming out soon...

Man, I would so like to add my thoughts on what Nintendo should do to correct this, but eh...I would be rambling like a baboon then...if I wasn't already.  

[Cap]

Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck


Now that is an outright lie, PS1 games still sell and still rent in fairly large numbers.

The reason many deem the cube a failure is because Nintendo planned on selling a certain number of units and have FAILED to reach those numbers, thus in the context set forth by nintendo it is indeed a failure at this point.
Is it a good console? Yes, of course it is, is it meeting expectation? No it isnt.

Other reasons that cause the word failure to reer its ugly head are, that it cant seem to pull away from a first time console maker in Mircrosoft and that it isnt gaining any ground on industry leader Sony. In business these are considered failures. Nintendo is making money on consoles but that trend will not last forever with a declining user base, eventially you dont sell enough to make money, that is the real concern IMO.

It is obvious that Nintendo has become a niche console, catering to a select type of gamer. Hopefully that type of gamer increases in numbers instead of declines, otherwise failure will become very easy to spot.

while i agree with everything you said, i think its important to mention that the xbox isnt selling up to ms's expectations as well. their original sales expectations were 12 million
sold by the end of june, not 9. they lowered it about 6-7 months before the figures were released when they realized they werent going to make the number. while thats fine, what ended up happening is i saw ms being commended for selling more then their expectations, despite the fact that they had to lower them earlier. you also mentioned that the gc has failed to make up any ground on sony, but again neither has the xbox.

as i said though, i do agree with everything you said. i just think the negative spin that the media like to put on just about everything nintendo does takes it's toll, and sooner or later people start to believe what they hear before giving the system a chance. you just dont hear the type of negativity you do about the gc about the other consoles, no matter the circumstances(at least not that i've seen).

[AgentSeven]

All of these posts are too damn long.

40 million Ps2?  Are you freaking insane?  Where are you getting this BS from?

It's a solid fact that the GameCube has OUTSOLD X-Box worldwide, reguardless of the lies that M$ spreads.  I work as a retail buyer,  I know what is selling in my stores, and it sure as hell isn't the X-Box.

Also, X-Box hads lost over 1.35 Billion Dollars US.  GameCube has made nothing but profits for Nintendo.  The real failure is X-Box.  If you want to talk about content, the Ps2, AKA "The Sequel Machine," is the real failure.

[The Doc]

I would not say that GameCube is a failure, however when the console is almost two years old and has sold under 10 million units worldwide I think a better term to use would be disapointing. Nintendo claimed that GameCube would be the anti N64, and in ways that statement holds true. For example, the N64 had a little under 300 games in its whole life span, where as the GameCube is not quite 2 years old yet and it has 350+ games in its library. It seemed that when the GameCube launched the idea of a console which looked like a purple lunch box did not sit well with the causual gamer. In addition, many people thought that the GameCube would be a failure since day one and as a result, many stores did not even bother to stock the console. In the end, the only company that is beating Nintendo is Nintendo.

The Doc

[The Doc]

Oh and another thing, Nintendo has been making money on the GameCube since day one and come to think of it Nintendo has always made money off of their consoles plan and simple. How do you like them apples? :-P

The Doc

[dogman85]

Quote
Originally posted by: AgentSeven
All of these posts are too damn long.

40 million Ps2?  Are you freaking insane?  Where are you getting this BS from?

It's a solid fact that the GameCube has OUTSOLD X-Box worldwide, reguardless of the lies that M$ spreads.  I work as a retail buyer,  I know what is selling in my stores, and it sure as hell isn't the X-Box.

Also, X-Box hads lost over 1.35 Billion Dollars US.  GameCube has made nothing but profits for Nintendo.  The real failure is X-Box.  If you want to talk about content, the Ps2, AKA "The Sequel Machine," is the real failure.

A couple things Agent Seven
Playstation 2 has sold over 50 million consoles, here's a link from the beginning of the year:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/coolgear/av/story/0,2000023510,20271337,00.htm

Ask anyone who knows anything about gaming, and they'll tell you PS2 has sold over 50mil. I believe PS2 has sold about 52 million consoles at this point
While Nintendo has certainly shipped more Gamecubes than Microsoft has shipped Xboxes,
The numbers are so close, that there might be more Xbox's in people's homes than Gamecube's in people's homes.
As you know, Nintendo has stopped Gamecube production to get rid of existing inventory. They report in quantities shipped, not quantities sold. Here's the link:

http://news.gaminghorizon.com/media/1060387085.html

and The Doc, how do you know that Gamecube has over 350 games? do you have a link plz?

[Nintendo]

Quote
Originally posted by: Gup

Quote

A system with games like Ocarina and Mario64 is NOT a failure.

N64 wasn't a failure(or a success), but your reason doesn't justify anything.  It's like saying Dreamcast had Shenmue and Sonic so it wasn't a failure.

That is CORRECT reasoning, we are gamers are we not.

To me a system only needs 1 great game I can enjoy to death, to be a success in my eyes.

[PIAC]

nintendo! i must ask of you, WHAT EPISODE IS YOUR AVATAR FROM!?  i must know ;__; cause i have to see it

[Nintendo]

Quote
Originally posted by: PIAC
nintendo! i must ask of you, WHAT EPISODE IS YOUR AVATAR FROM!?  i must know ;__; cause i have to see it

Ack! I love the avatar, but I just found it online. I've been searching for that episode for ages myself, it never aired where I live

[oohhboy]

nintendo quotes quantities shipped because they don't have a buy-back program, so once the cube is brought by the shops it is considered sold.

While the Xbox does have a Buy-Back program so to be accurate they have to quote numbers avtually sold by the shops, not shipped.

So when comparing Xbox to GCN numbers comparing number sold in retail vs shipped for GCN is a fair comparison because they are essenstaly "sold". Obviously in home numbers would be different. but considering shops in general keeping low inventries of GCNs, it is generally fair to assume that in home numbers are very close to number shipped.

Another thing, retail sales for the GCN are hard to come by and are highly inaccurate due to the exclusion of wal-mart in America as it is a GCN power house in sales.

In conculsion, one can only make general comments as to the number of consoles in homes.

[GaimeGuy]

oohhboy, if this were slashdot, I'd give you a +5 for informative/ Insightful.

[Sirmorphix]

The whole issue is the installed userbase is too small to make the sort of returns that the PS2 sees.  The success or failure of a system is based upon money made.  Rarely is the quality of games released any indication of a failed system.  The Cube has a great bunch of titles, but not enough people to buy them.  It's sad, but it's part of the reason why we see so many crappy ports and missing out on great titles.

[Ninja X]

I remember one thing Nintendo saidis that they are planning to have sold (or ship, I'm not sure) 50 million Gamecubes by the end of the Gamecube's life span.  If they plan to sell that much, good luck breaking half of that, Nintendo.  It sucks to see such a good system be dwarfed by another system...

[jalidi]

Hello guys, I'm new to this Forum so I'm a bit late arriving... but I still would like to make a few comments.

Quote
Originally posted by: dogman85and The Doc, how do you know that Gamecube has over 350 games? do you have a link plz?

I can provide this information courtesy of www.gamerankings.com

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/stats.asp

It indicates 421 unique GameCube titles to 291 N64 titles. There are some other interesting statistics on that page, as well. I believe there are roughly 90 announced GameCube titles coming out in the next six months to a year (check EBGames.com, their 'upcoming releases' section) with more being added. At this rate, assuming that it reaches the end of the same six year cycle that the N64 had (which is unlikely if Nintendo releases a next-gen console in 2005), it'll have close to 1000 titles in its library. It's more likely to finish with about 700 or so, though... in that respect, it'll ultimately be a far greater success than the N64 ever was. As game developers continue to improve their expertise with GameCube hardware, I believe that the best is yet to come.

Certainly a key to Nintendo's future home console success is to ensure the same software backwards compatibility for the GC and GC2 which Sony has for its PSX and PS2 library.  

[BrianSLA]

>> 421 <<

I don't think that is ACTUAL RELEASED titles. That is probably PLANNED titles included.  

[jalidi]

Quote
Originally posted by: BrianSLA
>> 421 <<

I don't think that is ACTUAL RELEASED titles. That is probably PLANNED titles included.

You're quite correct, that's why I made mention of the upcoming titles within six months to a year since those are lumped in with the grand total. Fortunately you can sort the list by "All Non-Released" and the exact number it gives you is 163 for GameCube.

421 unique titles minus 163 non-released equals 258 GameCube current titles.

[Nintendo]

Currently, as of last Friday, 786 games are confirmed in development including those already published. Of which total 136 are permanent NGC exclusive titles.