Topic: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face

[Nick DiMola]

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blogArt.cfm?artid=16599

  Fanboyism isn't anything new, especially on the internet. People have been picking sides with games, consoles, and companies for years, but in the end it is all pretty meaningless.    

Logically anyone who is invested enough in gaming to pick a side, is invested enough to care about gaming in general. So with that type of an investment why even bother exclusively picking a side? If you are open-minded and accepting, chances are you will find a greater amount of things to like across all platforms and genres.    

By cutting a game, genre, or system out of your repertoire just for the sake of being on a side is cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can continue to have a preference for something (that is a normal human trait) while still enjoying things outside of your preference. That doesn't make you a traitor, it makes you logical.    

Of course this is a Nintendo driven website, so the preference of most readers of the site is Nintendo. However, as fans of Nintendo, it's ok to experience non-Nintendo systems and games and still be a fan of Nintendo. It is frustrating for me to read comments on a wide variety of sites where every discussion devolves into console wars, or franchise wars, or genre wars. It's foolish nonsense and it is closed-mindedness.    

Fanboyism can be an easy trap to fall into, but remember its only hurting one person, and that's you.

[NWR_insanolord]

Nice try, but that was way too short and to the point to be an NWR Staff Blog post.

[DAaaMan64]

Are you saying N00bWRers are up their own ass and smelling their farts?

 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Fanboyism certainly isn't a problem here.

I wonder what prompted this blog poast.

[Nick DiMola]

Fanboyism certainly isn't a problem here.

I wonder what prompted this blog poast.

Actually Kotaku did. Reading comments there pisses me off and I thought this would be a good venue to get out my frustrations.

Plus I think it is an interesting discussion point.

[vudu]

What if we just don't like a certain company because of what they represent?  Nintendo is the last console manufacturer that primarily makes money by selling video games.  Sony and Microsoft are multi-billion dollar electronics companies that honestly don't care (that much) about the video game industry.

Nintendo has said before (and I honestly agree) that these big, multi-million dollar games are going to put the industry as a whole in jeopardy.  When a game needs to sell millions of copies before it breaks even the majority of games lose money.  The games that do sell are going to spawn countless sequels and imitators that will eventually lead to a stagnant industry.

There are a few of games on other systems that I would really like to play.  However, I don't have time to play the games I want to on my Wii and DS, so I simply can't justify purchasing a second (or third) system for a handful of games.

Full disclosure:  I've never owned a non-Nintendo console.  First I was too young and poor to be able to afford a second system.  Now I'm too busy to justify the purchase of a console I would barely get to play.  (I'll probably seriously consider a PS3 as a Blu-ray player in a few years when I'm ready to buy an HDTV.)

[Nick DiMola]

See but what you describe vudu isn't really fanboyism. You aren't saying that there can't be good games on other systems, just that with your limited time, the games you want to play the most are on a certain system, so you opt to play solely there because that is where you are getting your best value. This is logical and can not be criticized.

If you can't respect other gaming experiences elsewhere because they don't align with your tastes, that is when you start treading on the ground of fanboyism. It would be unreasonable to expect people to try and experience everything, but keeping an open mind keeps you out of fanboyism land.

[D_Average]

What about Fast-Food Fanboys?  Is that OK???


KFC FTW!!!

[NWR_Neal]

When I was in elementary/middle school there was a lot of picking sides whether it be Sega or Nintendo or Sony.
As I got older and actually had the money to buy my own games and other consoles if I wanted to, I realized that a lot of my fanboyism with Nintendo came from the inability to play the other systems. I still don't really like Sony, but I have a PS2 that gets occasional play and I will eventually get a PS3.

While I still have an preference towards Nintendo, I am no longer a Nintendo fanboy.

However, I consider myself a little bit of a Harmonix fanboy although they're making it very difficult for me to keep it up with their shaky unconfirmed Wii outings. But seriously, the charts are Guitar Hero III are totally off. I played GHIII, I enjoyed it. I prefer Rock Band.

[ShyGuy]

This sounds like something an Xbot would post.

[GoldenPhoenix]

GoNintendo is the anti-fanboi fanbois, so what do you have to say about THEM!

[NWR_Lindy]

Sony and Microsoft are multi-billion dollar electronics companies that honestly don't care (that much) about the video game industry.

Last time I checked, Nintendo was also a multi-billion dollar electronics company.  And Sony and Microsoft have also made some of the best video games ever, just like Nintendo.  To say that they "don't care" about the industry is just plain wrong...they just don't happen to be drinking Nintendo's Kool-Aid.

Nintendo has said before (and I honestly agree) that these big, multi-million dollar games are going to put the industry as a whole in jeopardy.  When a game needs to sell millions of copies before it breaks even the majority of games lose money.  The games that do sell are going to spawn countless sequels and imitators that will eventually lead to a stagnant industry.

I think Nintendo's whole "big-budget games are killing the industry" mantra is more a convenient way to justify their business strategy than anything else.  As a company, they want to make as much profit as possible, so it serves their business interests to promote a philosophy that has them spending as little money as possible to develop a game.  They aren't battling for technological superiority of your living room like Microsoft and Sony, so it makes sense that they're espousing the virtues of cheap development on older hardware.  But Mother Theresa they ain't.

Besides, I'd argue that the industry needs those blockbuster "event" games to draw attention to itself.  The industry can't survive by big-budget games alone, but like the movie industry you need the summer blockbusters and also the hidden gems to make it all work.

I think that Nintendo has been very savvy in recognizing that it's not the proliferation of big-budget games that's the problem, but rather the absence of smaller-scale games that are less involved and more accessible to the average person.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Last time I checked, Nintendo was also a multi-billion dollar electronics company.

Seriously it was pretty clear what he meant MS and Sony are HUGE and diverse. To them the gaming division is just one of their many departments, unlike Nintendo where gaming IS their business. MS is into the gaming business to get its tendrils into another market and Sony is the same way. Both companies more than likely would survive without gaming, unlike Nintendo who IS gaming first and foremost.

Basically:

1. MS and Sony see gaming as A business
2. Nintendo, gaming IS their business

[TheFleece]

Last time I checked Sony and Microsoft have contractual deals with the US Military and Nintendo doesn't. That's the honest to for real serious truth why I really opted for another Nintendo machine. Not to mention I grew up with Nintendo and more than their consoles I've always enjoyed every incarnation of hand held they've released. That isn't to say I don't see a XBox or PS3 game and say- 'Well that would be fun to play' and indeed I visited my friend for a few days and we played alot of XBox, but I couldn't justify spending my money and not pretending where its going.

[D_Average]

Last time I checked, Nintendo was also a multi-billion dollar electronics company.

Seriously it was pretty clear what he meant MS and Sony are HUGE and diverse. To them the gaming division is just one of their many departments, unlike Nintendo where gaming IS their business. MS is into the gaming business to get its tendrils into another market and Sony is the same way. Both companies more than likely would survive without gaming, unlike Nintendo who IS gaming first and foremost.

Basically:

1. MS and Sony see gaming as A business
2. Nintendo gaming IS their business

I thought we all agreed after E3 that:
Nintendo, gaming WAS their business   

[NWR_pap64]

As much as I despise fanboyism the two things I hate about it are fanboyism within fanboyism and when the media behaves as badly as the fans.

This is very common among Nintendo fans. Ever since the casual debacle of 2006 the Nintendo fandom has been divided into three:

-The fan that is so outraged by Nintendo that they created a capsule of hate and feel as if Nintendo has wronged them.

-The extremely fanatical player that sees no wrong in anything Nintendo does, to the point where they defend the lack of a storage device and friend codes.

-And finally, the level headed Nintendo fan that gives credit when credit is due and criticizes when there's need for it.

Now, I know that people will see Nintendo through their own eyes and the feeling will always be different. But lately, you can't even talk about a game without some kind of angst or rabid fandom behind it, and at times it sucks and its annoying as hell.

To the angsty fans I say...GET OVER IT! Yes, Nintendo's E3 2008 conference sucked big time, and Animal Crossing City Folk looks barely like an update and Wii Music will either be good or bad. However, that doesn't mean you must bring that issue out whenever we are talking about "Wario Land Shake it" and ruining the experience for those that just want to talk about a game.

And the overly fanatical, Nintendo is a company. Companies are run by humans. Humans mess up a lot of times. Which means that Nintendo can make mistakes, and if they are apparent we will call them out. That doesn't mean we are angry or are disrespecting Nintendo. While some of us will take it too far (see the angsty fanboy above) some of us will politely criticize it and likely move on. Nintendo's a great company, yes, but not a perfect one. Accept that and we should all be happy.

Now regarding fanboyism in the media, to an extend its understandable. Like Karl said in the Radio Free Nintendo thread many game journalists  are really just fans with no real preparation and knowledge of the field. That's fine.

But the problem is that many of the most well known people in the industry behave just as bad as the fans, or at times even worst.

OK, OK. No matter who we are, all of us are deep down fans. Whether its little Timmy or even Miyamoto the industry wouldn't exist today if the people behind it didn't have a love for gaming. However, there are certain actions and attitudes that do more harm that good and I think its time for it to stop.

I am talking about game journalists who have a fandom so stubborn that they publicly bash a game simply because it not what they wanted, or comes from a company they don't like. Or they review a game that is so, so hyped that they are afraid of being honest and instead review it like it was a masterpiece, even if it wasn't perfect.

Yes, I am talking about the GTA IV reviews and the time in which EGM refused to review "Endless Ocean" because it was a casual title different from the typical hardcore FPS fare.

People will burn alive any media outlet that shows blatantly obvious preference and questions its integrity as a news source. Even the movie and music industry have these standards to follow and not even critics (whose sole job is to criticize and pick apart anything in the medium) get away easily with it.

Yet, the videogame industry gets away with blatant fanboyism and its understandable why people don't give it the credit it deserves for being a legit entertainment medium.

Fanboyism within the fans is something expected and will never change. But fanboyism within a medium that claims to inform the player in the fairest way possible is dangerous because it sends an image to non gamers about those that truly enjoy their hobby without letting extreme personal feelings take over the fun.

[NWR_Lindy]

The fact that Sony and Microsoft have other divisions doesn't mean anything.  It's not like the corporate policies of either one of those companies are funneling money away from their gaming divisions to focus on making Widgets and Doo-dads, or that they're making are somehow "soulless" when compared to Nintendo's apparent vessels of gaming Ambrosia.  Heck, in some cases the gaming division is the only profitable division in either company, so you can bet they're getting huge support from above.  Furthermore, you can't tell me that the people that work in the Sony and Microsoft gaming divisions aren't just as dedicated and passionate about the game industry as anybody at Nintendo.  You can't make the games that those companies make for the consoles and not be incredibly passionate about the industry.

Gaming is Nintendo's business...nowadays.  They were originally making Hanafuda cards, but then starting making video games because they saw the money in it.  Hmmm, entering the video game industry from a related industry to make some money...sounds a lot like Sony and Microsoft, doesn't it?

[GoldenPhoenix]

The fact that Sony and Microsoft have other divisions doesn't mean anything.  It's not like the corporate policies of either one of those companies are funneling money away from their gaming divisions to focus on making Widgets and Doo-dads, or that they're making are somehow "soulless" when compared to Nintendo's apparent vessels of gaming Ambrosia.  Heck, in some cases the gaming division is the only profitable division in either company, so you can bet they're getting huge support from above.  Furthermore, you can't tell me that the people that work in the Sony and Microsoft gaming divisions aren't just as dedicated and passionate about the game industry as anybody at Nintendo.  You can't make the games that those companies make for the consoles and not be incredibly passionate about the industry.

Gaming is Nintendo's business...nowadays.  They were originally making Hanafuda cards, but then starting making video games because they saw the money in it.  Hmmm, entering the video game industry from a related industry to make some money...sounds a lot like Sony and Microsoft, doesn't it?

Nintendo changed their business completely over to gaming. Sony and MS have made gaming one division out of many, there is a huge difference. Do you honestly think MS's gaming division is their most profitable endeavor? I know with Sony they were using it to fund their other divisions but even that started to dry up when they developed a huge deficit with the PS3. MS has just started making a profit after flushing money down the drain for 2 console generations.

Lindy you cannot be naive enough to truly compare Nintendo to Sony/MS as things currently stand now., at least from a priorities perspective, can you? You are right about Nintendo being into playing cards but that was close to 30 years ago, for the last couple of decades Nintendo's main business has revolved around gaming. Without gaming Nintendo would be nothing, MS and Sony on the other hand could drop gaming and while it may hurt a bit they would be able to move on like any company does that expands to something they end up failing in. Sony with their HUGE electronics division and MS with its software business. Both made a name for themselves from THOSE industries while Nintendo is pretty much known for gaming, and has been for a very long time.  Is it really that difficult to see how weak your comparison with Nintendo and their trading card business?

If Sony and MS fail in the gaming business, they can just go back to whatever they were doing but with a bloody nose, and maybe hairline fracture. Nintendo on the other hand would either find themselves without a parachute as they plummeted to earth, or become a rotting corpse barely animated like Sega before them. That is why Nintendo has pushed innovation the most because they HAVE to, it is for their very survival.

Also I don't believe I said anything about Sony or MS not having great people, in fact I've said in the past they both do and I've met a few at Microsoft, but looking at the nature of how they are structured, makes it virtually impossible to be nearly as focused as Nintendo when it comes gaming. While they will try to put effort in keeping a division afloat, they also are able to cut their losses and move on if things get too bad.

[Deguello]

Uh, Silks, aren't cards a part of "gaming" too?  Or is this another casualty of the ever-shrinking terms of what is or is not a "game?"

I think you are going to lose this one, Silks.  Other than a few ridiculous side-business that Yamauchi tried in the 80's, Nintendo has basically, fundamentally, always been about games, and/or entertainment.  They are the last purely integrated hardware/software makers.  MS and Sony can, and if their losses continue, probably WILL leave the video game business and go to other things, like Operating systems and Televisions.  Nintendo can't as it is their only business.

And if you are one of those guys that think that because they have a history in the business and fans that they'll never, ever leave the industry... well... look at Sega.

Oh and by the way, just because you own everything, doesn't mean you aren't a fanboy.  Some people just can't afford every system ever, especially with some (DS) offering cavalcades of quality over and over again.  So the decision must be weighed against getting 10 awesome DS games or an Xbox 360 by itself.  Decisions that apparently favor the DS frequently to the majority of gamers.

Addendum:

If you can't respect other gaming experiences elsewhere because they don't align with your tastes, that is when you start treading on the ground of fanboyism.

HMM.  That sounds very, very familiar.  I may have seen someone exhibit this sort of behavior.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Uh, Silks, aren't cards a part of "gaming" too?  Or is this another casualty of the ever-shrinking terms of what is or is not a "game?"

I think you are going to lose this one, Silks.  Other than a few ridiculous side-business that Yamauchi tried in the 80's, Nintendo has basically, fundamentally, always been about games, and/or entertainment.  They are the last purely integrated hardware/software makers.  MS and Sony can, and if their losses continue, probably WILL leave the video game business and go to other things, like Operating systems and Televisions.  Nintendo can't as it is their only business.

And if you are one of those guys that think that because they have a history in the business and fans that they'll never, ever leave the industry... well... look at Sega.

One thing I will concede to Lindy is that you MAY be able to draw a parallel with the early days of Nintendo where gaming was not their focus, but that changed, like I said decades ago. They no longer have anything to fall back on that is not gaming related, while Sony/MS still do, so their "drive" is logically going to be less than Nintendo to stick it through.

ever leave the industry... well... look at Sega.

Poor Sega 

[Bill Aurion]

I think Nintendo's whole "big-budget games are killing the industry" mantra is more a convenient way to justify their business strategy than anything else.  As a company, they want to make as much profit as possible, so it serves their business interests to promote a philosophy that has them spending as little money as possible to develop a game. 

Then why the hell does a game like Wario Land Shake exist?  An old-school 2D platformer with hand-drawn characters (yes, a game with sprites costs much more than it does to just use 3D models) and outsourced anime cutscenes? (done by a well-known and renowned animation studio: Production I.G.)

[D_Average]

I think Nintendo's whole "big-budget games are killing the industry" mantra is more a convenient way to justify their business strategy than anything else.  As a company, they want to make as much profit as possible, so it serves their business interests to promote a philosophy that has them spending as little money as possible to develop a game. 

Then why the hell does a game like Wario Land Shake exist?  An old-school 2D platformer with hand-drawn characters (yes, a game with sprites costs much more than it does to just use 3D models) and outsourced anime cutscenes? (done by a well-known and renowned animation studio: Production I.G.)

Cost more than Carnival Games it may, but I hardly doubt it comes close to other AAA titles coming out this holiday.

[Deguello]

I think Nintendo's whole "big-budget games are killing the industry" mantra is more a convenient way to justify their business strategy than anything else.  As a company, they want to make as much profit as possible, so it serves their business interests to promote a philosophy that has them spending as little money as possible to develop a game. 

Then why the hell does a game like Wario Land Shake exist?  An old-school 2D platformer with hand-drawn characters (yes, a game with sprites costs much more than it does to just use 3D models) and outsourced anime cutscenes? (done by a well-known and renowned animation studio: Production I.G.)

Cost more than Carnival Games it may, but I hardly doubt it comes close to other AAA titles coming out this holiday.

Please learn to be relevant, as what you said has little if anything to do with "Nintendo spends as little money as possible on development" conflicting with "Nintendo develops costly 2D game."  You just flapped about hype-based "AAA" ratings and monstrously high budgets as if they meant anything and slammed the keyboard like an ape.  Congrats, but Ian already perfected this art, so you're just an also-ran.

[Bill Aurion]

Cost more than Carnival Games it may, but I hardly doubt it comes close to other AAA titles coming out this holiday.

You did not just correlate game quality with bleeding-from-every-pore HD budgets, did you?  Trying to compare a Wii game budget and that of an HD console game as if of equal weight is asinine in itself...

[NWR_Lindy]

I don't understand how people feel that Sony and Microsoft are somehow less invested in the video game arena than Nintendo.  Yes, if the Sony and Microsoft gaming divisions ceased to exist, both of those companies would continue to operate.  But they have BILLIONS tied up in their game divisions, and are fighting tooth and nail to "win".  Sony's been in the space for 13 years, and Microsoft has been in it for what, 7 already?  That's not a short-term investment.  That's not a dalliance, it's not a fling with video gaming.  Playstation and Xbox are two of the most important brands in both of those companies' portfolios.  To say that they're somehow less invested in gaming based on the criteria that their competitor only does gaming is B.S. to me.

Microsoft is so non-invested and ready to turn their back on the industry, that they only stuck around 7 years before they even turned a profit.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/25/microsoft-entertainment-division-turns-profit-thanks-halo/

And Sony was ready to totally bail on the PS3 too and dump their Games division, despite 13 years in the industry and massive success...oh wait, they just turned a profit too.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/31/sonys-game-division-turns-a-profit/

This claim that Sony and Microsoft are somehow going to pack up and go home at the first sign of trouble is a MYTH.  They're both here for the duration, and they're both making money so they aren't going to leave.

Then why the hell does a game like Wario Land Shake exist?  An old-school 2D platformer with hand-drawn characters (yes, a game with sprites costs much more than it does to just use 3D models) and outsourced anime cutscenes? (done by a well-known and renowned animation studio: Production I.G.)

If you think Nintendo is breaking the bank to develop Wario Land Shake It, you're crazy.  Nothing against that game, but I'm sure it was done by a pretty small team.  It's not the amount of work involved, it's the number of resources involved that drive development prices up.