Author Topic: Bye NWR  (Read 21532 times)

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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2007, 08:40:06 AM »
Hey, you aren't allowed to make more posts!  You're a failure at quitting!
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Offline bustin98

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2007, 08:58:32 AM »
I think that since there seems to be a relatively small group of regulars, those of us who feel we have the ability to help want to do just that, give some help and offer another perspective that may not have been considered. That's how we see a community getting along and growing, with the experience of the members.

But there's something to be said of having too many cooks in the kitchen. And as a fan site, there are aspects that should be kept behind the curtains, even if its to offer a surprise now and then to the members of the community.

Shift Key seemed like he was pushing for something that others were not ready for. And it seems like there is more behind his story than we could know from the discussion.

BUT

I deal with a lot of people who if they aren't pushed nothing would get done. Especially those who have multiple lives to lead. Maybe that was the goal. Not an excuse, just a point of view.

I would like to add that it would be neat if there was a consortium of members that could tackle various aspects of the site and offer solutions and code samples of "here's how to do this". The code doesn't have to be used, but if it is then that would take some pressure off the main coder.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2007, 09:35:17 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale

Also, as a slight insight into why it's not as easy as it sounds, we are pondering a larger scale changeover for the site (for other reasons) that would affect new forum software anyway.  That question needs to be answered first.



NWR switching to Microsoft only coverage CONFIRMED by Pale.


Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2007, 10:01:04 AM »
I'm leaving too because you are all stoopid

Yes, I am really leaving this topic FOR NOW  
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2007, 10:21:09 AM »
You did that wrong, GP.  And, just curious, how long is "NOW?"  Because if it's a long time, then it means you're a liar!

Offline Svevan

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2007, 05:32:37 AM »
I don't have anything to contribute to the Forum debate (miss ya Shifty), but I would like to comment on the forumers attitudes towards the staff. In the NWR Staff Suggestion thread, we got a lot of complaints about a lack of involvement from us staffers here on the forums. Yet, at the same time, we get MORE complaints about the poor quality of NWR, the stuff that forumers believe they could do better, and countless passive-aggressive "suggestions" that seem to destroy the pride of the suggester when they are dismissed. Also, thanks to the fact that this is the anonymous Internet, many people think they can get away with abusive comments about the staffers when they DO post here (I would mention names, but then everyone will be like "what, when?" because they don't find their behavior to be inappropriate). That's not to say the staffers are perfect, but really we'd rather not engage in this stuff because everyone has an opinion and no one has all the answers. When people start acting as though NWR is a right that they've earned, a merit badge that they can position on their boy scout uniform, while we sweat and toil (well, some of us, not me anymore) and get very little recognition from not only the larger world but even the small community here, it's VERY frustrating. I felt it back when I was PR coordinator, and whenever I write an editorial and someone dismisses me without critiquing me (those who critique could use some manners too). But it's not just me (theoretically). I know, and everyone else around here knows, that most of our forumers are here for the forums and not any other work we do. That's something we feel every time we write an article: "Who's gonna care?"

So I guess I have moved on to the forum debate (and every other debate). We do listen to every suggestion. We consider every idea.

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Offline Kairon

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2007, 07:55:44 AM »
Please, if anyone feels the need to bash the staff, direct all hate to me!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline nickmitch

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2007, 08:44:27 AM »
Ok! Um. . .Kairon sucks.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2007, 09:31:59 AM »
Awww... that was hateful....
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Plugabugz

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2007, 09:50:57 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
I don't have anything to contribute to the Forum debate (miss ya Shifty), but I would like to comment on the forumers attitudes towards the staff. In the NWR Staff Suggestion thread, we got a lot of complaints about a lack of involvement from us staffers here on the forums. Yet, at the same time, we get MORE complaints about the poor quality of NWR, the stuff that forumers believe they could do better, and countless passive-aggressive "suggestions" that seem to destroy the pride of the suggester when they are dismissed. Also, thanks to the fact that this is the anonymous Internet, many people think they can get away with abusive comments about the staffers when they DO post here (I would mention names, but then everyone will be like "what, when?" because they don't find their behavior to be inappropriate). That's not to say the staffers are perfect, but really we'd rather not engage in this stuff because everyone has an opinion and no one has all the answers. When people start acting as though NWR is a right that they've earned, a merit badge that they can position on their boy scout uniform, while we sweat and toil (well, some of us, not me anymore) and get very little recognition from not only the larger world but even the small community here, it's VERY frustrating. I felt it back when I was PR coordinator, and whenever I write an editorial and someone dismisses me without critiquing me (those who critique could use some manners too). But it's not just me (theoretically). I know, and everyone else around here knows, that most of our forumers are here for the forums and not any other work we do. That's something we feel every time we write an article: "Who's gonna care?"

So I guess I have moved on to the forum debate (and every other debate). We do listen to every suggestion. We consider every idea.

In the world of gaming journalism, we're ants fighting anteaters.


When you build your house you should expect to maintain it. We only demand more from whats already good enough

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If you undo your nothing by doing something then by undoing it we should cancel out the original nothing because you'd have done something of equal value to the proportionate amount of the first nothing.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2007, 01:21:08 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
I don't have anything to contribute to the Forum debate (miss ya Shifty), but I would like to comment on the forumers attitudes towards the staff. In the NWR Staff Suggestion thread, we got a lot of complaints about a lack of involvement from us staffers here on the forums. Yet, at the same time, we get MORE complaints about the poor quality of NWR, the stuff that forumers believe they could do better, and countless passive-aggressive "suggestions" that seem to destroy the pride of the suggester when they are dismissed. Also, thanks to the fact that this is the anonymous Internet, many people think they can get away with abusive comments about the staffers when they DO post here (I would mention names, but then everyone will be like "what, when?" because they don't find their behavior to be inappropriate). That's not to say the staffers are perfect, but really we'd rather not engage in this stuff because everyone has an opinion and no one has all the answers. When people start acting as though NWR is a right that they've earned, a merit badge that they can position on their boy scout uniform, while we sweat and toil (well, some of us, not me anymore) and get very little recognition from not only the larger world but even the small community here, it's VERY frustrating. I felt it back when I was PR coordinator, and whenever I write an editorial and someone dismisses me without critiquing me (those who critique could use some manners too). But it's not just me (theoretically). I know, and everyone else around here knows, that most of our forumers are here for the forums and not any other work we do. That's something we feel every time we write an article: "Who's gonna care?"

So I guess I have moved on to the forum debate (and every other debate). We do listen to every suggestion. We consider every idea.

In the world of gaming journalism, we're ants fighting anteaters.


Actually the staffers I have the most respect for are ones that actually stick up for their opinions, instead of letting people run them over. A great example of this is the Zelda: PH review, that reviewer was getting brutalized and it was tough to defend him because he didn't bother to do it himself. The main staffers I do respect the most are Pale, Evan (yes even you!), Crimm, Kairon and Windy because you guys all seem to actually care about the community and interact with it (Well Windy does when he can, I know he is busy). It is frustrating though that the staff spends more time at "other" forums when they spend little to no time here. How can you develop much respect for people that are nothing but words written in a review or an editorial but do nothing else in regards to holding discussions even on their own work?

Some of the animosity may be caused because the members here feel a bit slighted when a board the staff has little to no involvement in on a macro level gets more interaction, more personal attention then one that they are staff on. Not to say that bashing staff is acceptable, and I know I'm guilty of that, but I don't see what is wrong with trying to improve the community and its morale with suggestions. If these suggestions get rejected, fine, but to get no response at all at least an response we are aware of.
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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2007, 01:22:43 PM »
Man. I was wondering if Shift Key was being serious and he was. Chopper Dave, No!

I hope you can make it back for the 25th anniversary of mafia. If not, enjoy this video which expresses my emotion to you as you leave.

Babe, wait!


EDIT: In addition to Golden Pheonix comment, I'd also like to add that in addition to those staffers, I also like Jonny, Karl, Michael Cole and Ty. Again, these are staffers that are often very good with the community and willing to standby the opinions they offer. At the same time, I don't really have anything against the other staffers, I just don't know them that well and so kind of forget about them. It would be nice if there was more interaction with all the staff but that's their choice. I'm sure working for the site can take a lot of time so they might not be able to spend much time on the forum. But I never hold that against them and I'd never attack someone over it.

 
Whoever said, "Cheaters never win" must've never met Khushrenada.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2007, 05:24:40 PM »
I know I can be hard on the staff, but I appreciate all the work each and everyone one you do. Even Deguello! I want NWR to be popular and succeed.  I want NWR to have it's own graphic for daily updates on GoNintendo; I want Radio Free Nintendo to cause a weekly post on NeoGaf; I want staffers to be invited to debate Geoff Keighley on Gamehead!

Offline IceCold

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2007, 05:43:42 PM »
Quote

It is frustrating though that the staff spends more time at "other" forums when they spend little to no time here.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2007, 06:18:14 PM »
I think it's unfair to ask staffers to pull double duty on the forums. Believe me, they've got enough on their plate with the front page. I understand that it's much easier to feel appreciative of staffers who interact with the community, if only through talkback threads and through reviews that they've written, but it's ridiculous not to acknowledge the contributions of so many staff members who keep the place from falling apart without ever having the chance to bask in the warm light of the forums.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Crimm

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2007, 06:27:46 PM »
It's my job to want people here, staff and non.  I think the fact so many of our staff do post here gives this place a more "community feel."

Sometimes I don't know if that's a good thing.
James Jones
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2007, 07:51:32 PM »
Chances are, if you post even once a month, I think you're a superb staffer.  Windy's great.  If you send him a PM, he'll respond, even if he isn't posting very much at the time.  I know Jonny reads a lot about what we say.  I've seen him reply several times.  Evan, you're here now, posting when something comes up like this.  That's great.  TYP will answer right away if you ask him a question, especially in one of his RT threads.  Karl I like to poke fun at, because he's a seminole, and the same goes a little looser for Mike Sklens.  Pale is awesome, and apparently, after just checking it now, his blogsite is too.  That youtube of the Galaxy orchestra was amazing, btw.  AzureNightmare is growing in presence here, too.

But here's the thing Evan.  It's a point I've been trying to make a lot.  We can't tell who does what in the news.  We talk to pseudonyms on the forums, and the articles we see in the talkback threads, where I go to see the news most of the time, rather than read it on the front page, don't tell us who wrote them there.  If we want to find out, we have to go to the main page again, and most people don't think to do that.  So essentially, we see news as being from the entity that is NWR.  We don't see that Jonny wrote that review to such-and-such game.  We don't see that Kairon covered this press release.  We don't see that on the forum.  Then, a lot of the time we see names, we can't easily associate that name to either a forum identity or any other body of work.

So ask me, why do I know Windy is Steven Rodriguez?  Why do I know Svevan is Evan Burchfield.  Why do I know that Jonnyboy17 is Jonathan Metts?  Why do I know that Viewtiful_Gamer is Karl Casteneda or however it's spelled?  Honestly, it's not because they post on the forums.  I don't really notice signatures unless I look at them specifically.  It's because these people do work that includes their names, and then respond to you when you ask them questions about their work.  Podcasts, editorials, whatever, they are the ones with the names that appear in the first post of the talkback thread, and as a result, I know who to talk to about the article.

Also, I know Crimm is James Jones, that Kairon is Carmine "Cai" Red, that TYP is Michael Cole, and for some reason, I can't remember Mike Sklen's forum name, but I'd know it if I saw it.  I know Pale is Mike Sklens, too, but I know Crimm because I actually took the time to see that, I know Kairon because of that whole auto-sig deal, I know TYP's because of live Radio Trivia, and I know Pale's because of the forums.  I would know AzureNightmare's but I keep forgetting his real name even though I just remembered it's Brad Mossbacher.

So anyways, I don't know what I'm getting at, aside from that names should be attached to the related articles, including press releases and reviews, the majority of the site's coverage.  I'll be honest, I'm certain I've treated staff poorly, but I didn't intend to, and I'm sorry for that.  However, I don't doubt that the staff doesn't do a great job here at all.  I've said it before, there's only one website I ever go to for a decent review with video games.  I just don't trust anyone else.  On my bookmarks, NintendoWorldReport is the very first one, and my first target daily.  I'd listen to the podcasts if I had the time to without having to break it into chunks.  The community is, truthfully first rate.  The staff does not ever, ever, ever, ever, act like they are automatically better than the forum members, despite having proven their capabilities to the qualified management in place.  The editorials are usually very up to date and bear a quick turn around time to real-world events.  No statements are almost always well supported.  I could go on and on about how awesome this entire place is, but I never thought I needed to.  That's my mistake, because you all deserve thanks for doing these things for us.  It's why we want to support you when you leave to grander things, especially in journalism.  We already know you're great.  I guess we just assume you all know it, too.

Anyways, as to why this thread is here in the first case, ShiftKey is leaving or has left.  I've got to say, I don't know much about what he did at NWR.  Not because he didn't do great things, but rather because I couldn't associate the forum name to the actual name in his work here.  However, I do sympathize with his idea that a place just needs to get things done instead of putting them off, but let's be honest, you guys aren't paid, you deliver multiple pieces of content daily, except some weekend days (rarely), and you maintain everything, so there's not much time to just get things done, is there?  After all, you do want to maintain gaming as a hobby.

Also, as to why a lot of us bug you about forum software, I think it's because you've hinted that it's coming.  We just want to know the progress of things we know exist, I think.  I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I don't think there's really a problem with what's here.  Then again, I haven't seen much else besides disgusting picture-laden junky forums on random sites, the barebones retarded GameFaqs approach, and the blog-style comment system.  This style seems wonderful by comparison to those.  Then again, I haven't asked about forum upgrades, either, so you may want to ask one of the people asking about the forums why the upgrade is so important.

I've just been in a ranty mood today.  It's Kotaku's fault.  They're all idiots, and no matter how hard I try, I can't un-idiot them.  On the rare event that I comment to a news post there, I usually have to rant on for days with people disagreeing with me for stupid reasons, so I try to limit initial postings to about once every other week.  I'd go somewhere else, but there isn't much else that isn't incredibly corporately run and biased for various reasons.  Though Kotaku's pretty biased, too, at least I can point out where the editors are explicitly idiots at and not have to worry about annoying subversive bias.  I hope you can see the difference in opinion I've got between your sites here.  I'd take NWR over any other gaming news site any day of the week.

Offline IceCold

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2007, 07:56:52 PM »
Quote

for some reason, I can't remember Mike Sklen's forum name, but I'd know it if I saw it. I know Pale is Mike Sklens
It's ObiStriker. And Pale is Mike Gamin
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2007, 08:02:26 PM »
Bah!  I started talking about Sklens, then I moved on to the next Mike, but my brain wasn't processing!  BLARG!!  For the record, I know that, too!  I was just at MikeGamin.com!  I swear!

I also left off Ty.  But you know.  He's you know.  Yeah.  But I know him, too.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2007, 08:49:04 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
I think it's unfair to ask staffers to pull double duty on the forums. Believe me, they've got enough on their plate with the front page. I understand that it's much easier to feel appreciative of staffers who interact with the community, if only through talkback threads and through reviews that they've written, but it's ridiculous not to acknowledge the contributions of so many staff members who keep the place from falling apart without ever having the chance to bask in the warm light of the forums.


I don't think any of us doubt the hard work they put into reviews, but when they spend much more time posting in NeoGaf then they do here, it makes some of us feel like we are something they need to scrape off their shoe even if it may not be true. It would be like Matt and Mark at IGN spending more time at gamefaqs interacting with the community then interacting with the IGN community. One guy that does a great job of interacting with his community is Rawmeat on Gonintendo, like the site or hate it, he tries his best to not only work hard but show his community that made his site a success that he appreciates them. In some ways this paraells movie actors who don't interact with the "little" guy (For this argument we'll say this is NWR)but spend all their time interacting with people who don't really appreciate them (Neogaf) but are "more on their level". Yes the staffers here are important but so is the community that supports them and the best way to show that support is to join in, and sign some "abstract" autographs by interacting with them more.

I'm not asking them to spend Kairon amount of time here, but at least post a couple times a week especially in defense of their reviews or editorials if people have problems with them. Though that doesn't mean going overboard either, maybe a response to sum some of the MAIN points of disagreement and leave it at that, if people want to still whine then oh well, I guess it'll have to fall on the shoulders of a community member.  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2007, 09:17:17 PM »
Well, it's unfair to ask anyone to spend my amount of time on the forums, because I am a forum creature originally. Just like Crimminy! You know, this is where we came from, our territory! Of course Crimm and I are more visible!

As for NeoGAF... WHO?!?! WHO'S GOING TO NeoGAF!!! Grrr... lemme at 'em! That's MY newsbeat and I won't have someone else edging in on my news turf! GRAAWWRRR!!!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2007, 09:18:40 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, it's unfair to ask anyone to spend my amount of time on the forums, because I am a forum creature originally. Just like Crimminy! You know, this is where we came from, our territory! Of course Crimm and I are more visible!

As for NeoGAF... WHO?!?! WHO'S GOING TO NeoGAF!!! Grrr... lemme at 'em! That's MY newsbeat and I won't have someone else edging in on my news turf! GRAAWWRRR!!!


I change my mind, Kairon is the worse staffer EVER. He is a stoopid head and goober.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Bye NWR
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2007, 09:26:41 PM »
I wonder if the 1up forums get mad at their staff crew, because the 1up/Ziff staffers seem to post all time on NeoGaf.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2007, 09:27:59 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ShyGuy
I wonder if the 1up forums get mad at their staff crew, because the 1up/Ziff staffers seem to post all time on NeoGaf.


1up doesn't count because their staffers are losers and no one likes them or wants to see them post! And that is the truth.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Bye NWR
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2007, 09:42:38 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, it's unfair to ask anyone to spend my amount of time on the forums, because I am a forum creature originally. Just like Crimminy! You know, this is where we came from, our territory! Of course Crimm and I are more visible!

As for NeoGAF... WHO?!?! WHO'S GOING TO NeoGAF!!! Grrr... lemme at 'em! That's MY newsbeat and I won't have someone else edging in on my news turf! GRAAWWRRR!!!


I change my mind, Kairon is the worse staffer EVER. He is a stoopid head and goober.


T_T I just can't win!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.