Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[broodwars]

$34.99 for  Mass Effect 1 and 2 on PC are the controls such that playing that way be good?

Well, I didn't have any issues with the controls, but I played these games on the 360.  I haven't heard of any PC control issues, though.

[ThePerm]

To be fair, these games were designed to be played with a keyboard and mouse. You have to keep in mind they were shoehorned to be able to work with a console controller but that doesn't really work so great. Your best bet with these kinds of games is to play them on the PC which they were intended for.

maybe they should make the games better than their pc counterparts, i dont have a lot of fuss messing with console counterparts, which are probably more fun games. You know what has a good inventory system? Minecraft! I could see how an inventory like that would work on Wii U, but better, also any shooting game would improve considerably from it.

wii u has the gyroscopic tech from wii, but its better for aiming and stuff then wii was. Waggle seemes to be what they are dropping, but there are more buttons. Outside of sports resort and skyward sword..was there ever a useful place for waggle?
Metroid never used much waggle, Zelda used it, but it could have been replaced with  button press, mario used it but again, a button press could replace its function. When I first saw Wii I was initially excited for its use in aiming, but even though that was the most effective use for the wii-mote it was underutilized. Now we have a controller that is geared towards this. Whats even more interesting is there seems to be developers on board. Also, not to mention this is more what i thought would be in mind when we were speculating about Revolution.

[Chozo Ghost]

Consoles have USB ports, right? What I don't understand is why they can't allow the console versions of these games to use a keyboard and mouse since it is certainly possible to hook them up to the console. That's the thing I don't get.

[broodwars]

Consoles have USB ports, right? What I don't understand is why they can't allow the console versions of these games to use a keyboard and mouse since it is certainly possible to hook them up to the console. That's the thing I don't get.

Because only a fraction of a percentage of their user base will ever use that feature, and implementing it means more functionality testing than you can imagine.  Remember, these companies would have to ensure that doing anything with the keyboard and mouse at any time in the game didn't cause the game to crash or bug-out or delete save data/whatnot.  For all that hassle and the resources that would have to be expended, there are just too few people that would use it.  Those that care enough to use those accessories already likely game near-exclusively on PC.

[Ian Sane]

Back when the Xbox debuted, Microsoft got a lot of flack about selling a "PC in a box".  I figure they were not so keen on keyboard and mouse support for fear of the Xbox not being able to distinguish itself from a PC.  The trend has then carried on.

Back when the SNES got a mouse I figured that they would become standard issue for consoles but that never happened.  At the time the reason PC-to-console ports sucked was usually because they didn't have a mouse and moving a cursor with the d-pad sucks.  If it wasn't for that the SNES version of Sim City would actually be better.

[Ceric]

Alright, its official.  We need some actual news to talk about. 

On a side note it seems Mass Effect 1 at the very least is suppose to be better on the PC in almost every way.

[Chozo Ghost]

Consoles have USB ports, right? What I don't understand is why they can't allow the console versions of these games to use a keyboard and mouse since it is certainly possible to hook them up to the console. That's the thing I don't get.

Because only a fraction of a percentage of their user base will ever use that feature, and implementing it means more functionality testing than you can imagine.  Remember, these companies would have to ensure that doing anything with the keyboard and mouse at any time in the game didn't cause the game to crash or bug-out or delete save data/whatnot.

Wasn't all that hassle already done when they did it on the PC in the first place?

[broodwars]

Consoles have USB ports, right? What I don't understand is why they can't allow the console versions of these games to use a keyboard and mouse since it is certainly possible to hook them up to the console. That's the thing I don't get.

Because only a fraction of a percentage of their user base will ever use that feature, and implementing it means more functionality testing than you can imagine.  Remember, these companies would have to ensure that doing anything with the keyboard and mouse at any time in the game didn't cause the game to crash or bug-out or delete save data/whatnot.

Wasn't all that hassle already done when they did it on the PC in the first place?

It depends on how the teams are organized, what the lead platform was, and how similar the code is for the different versions.  You're also dealing with completely different hardware with the console versions than the PCs in the development and testing environments, and you never know what will happen once you introduce a new variable into a project with so many possible inputs.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Alright, its official.  We need some actual news to talk about.

 http://blogs.forbes.com/davidewalt/2011/07/05/nintendo-reggie-fils-aime-wii-u/

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't think it should be an issue. I have a USB keyboard hooked up to my PS3 and I routinely use it for text input, and its never caused any problem at all. A keyboard is pretty standard input hardware so I don't see why it would be any issue. There are a lot of buttons, yes, but not all of them are going to be used.

[broodwars]

I don't think it should be an issue. I have a USB keyboard hooked up to my PS3 and I routinely use it for text input, and its never caused any problem at all. A keyboard is pretty standard input hardware so I don't see why it would be any issue. There are a lot of buttons, yes, but not all of them are going to be used.

Regardless of whether the keys have a use, they still have to be tested in case they do something unexpected at as many different event triggers within the game as possible, as well as what happens when the keyboard is unplugged.  That's standard controller testing, and that's just assuming that the keyboard is only used for text input.  As for why your keyboard works fine on your PS3, I suspect the PS3's OS handles keyboard input while within a text prompt.

Companies very well could support these accessories on consoles.  It's a matter of how much work it would take to thoroughly implement and test them, compared to the percentage of users that would use them.  If there's online play, they'd also have to segment off the Keyboard and Mouse users from everyone else, as controllers are not designed to have that fine level of input.

[Sarail]

Alright, its official.  We need some actual news to talk about.

 http://blogs.forbes.com/davidewalt/2011/07/05/nintendo-reggie-fils-aime-wii-u/

I just wanna know why Nintendo's being so passive when answering questions about its online plans. I mean, this IS the thing Nintendo has faulted the most on with its previous two game consoles, and I would think you'd wanna come right out and tell people about your "robust plans" for your online network. Get people excited about it. Seriously... that's part of marketing, and it could go a LONG way with changing your image and having people speak positively about you.

[Stogi]

So if I’m connected to Netflix on my Wii, I could watch Netflix on the controller?

Theoretically, that’s possible.

If the console is not turned on does the controller do anything?

No. It’s got to be powered through the console.

Your online services are very different than what your competitors offer. Isn’t something missing, that you can’t offer the sort of experience I can get on Xbox Live?

I don’t think it is an issue for us, and here’s why. We’ve seen what our competitors have done, and we’ve acknowledged that we need to do more online, starting with the launch of our eShop on Nintendo 3DS, and we’re going to continue to build our online capability.For Wii U, we’re going to take that one step further, and what we’re doing is creating a much more flexible system that will allow the best approaches by independent publishers to come to bear. So instead of a situation where a publisher has their own network and wants that to be the predominant platform, and having arguments with platform holders, we’re going to welcome that. We’re going to welcome that from the best and the brightest of the third party publishers.

I love the fact that anything on the screen can be transported to the Umote.

I am unsure of the online structure, though. Will this mean we have separate accounts for everyone of these approaches or an overreaching account with access to all?

[Chozo Ghost]

Forget the keyboard for a moment. What about the mouse? Would be nice to see that be usable for FPS game in junction with a joystick. You could do precision aiming much better than you can with dual analog sticks.

[mac<censored>]

BTW, anyone wanna give a mini-review of Mass Effect 2?

It just went on sale here, and although I'm kinda interested in the idea of a SF RPG, I'm wary of Bioware since DA:O turned out to be such a disappointment (great engine and graphics, nice menus, nice combat -- but super-lazy-ass totally-on-rails-even-though-we're-pretending-it's-not gameplay).

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I much preferred ESIV:O, despite it's myriad flaws (and they are myriad), simply because it does a much better job of letting you bum around and do what you want.  So is ME2 a DA:O-style bullshit RPG, or does it give you a measure of freedom?

[Argh, wikipedia mentions that ME2 has the issue of unreadable-on-SDTV text... and I have a SDTV... (bioware bullshit excuse: "it was a design decision" (read: "we didn't think about it, and our testing on high-resolution monitors didn't reveal any problems...").]

[Ian Sane]

The Forbes guy seems a wee bit out of his league asking about a videogame system.  "What's going to happen when the Wii and Wii U are in stores at the same time?"  Gee, I don't know, buddy.  Maybe the exact same thing that has happened EVERY SINGLE time a company has introduced a succeeding console?  Seriously this was a valid question back in like 1991 when the SNES came out.  Everyone knows how this stuff works by now.
 

I just wanna know why Nintendo's being so passive when answering questions about its online plans. I mean, this IS the thing Nintendo has faulted the most on with its previous two game consoles, and I would think you'd wanna come right out and tell people about your "robust plans" for your online network.

After all these years of following Nintendo I have noticed that if they're vague about something, it means they're hiding something.  When Nintendo is enthusiastic about something they are damn obvious about it.  And it goes the other way, too.  If Reggie is being all dodgy and passive about the Wii U's online plans, it means they're nothing hot.  Hopefully better than what we have now but they'll by no means even compare to what the competition is doing.  Nintendo gets vague and gives non-answers when the news is bad.
 
Can anyone think of an example of Nintendo giving wishy-washy answers without it being something bad?  When asked about online for the Gamecube they were vague and, surprise, they had no online plans at all.  When asked about the specs for the Wii they were vague and, surprise, the specs were vastly underpowered as everyone figured.  Unless you are insane or stupid, when given a chance to squash criticism you take it, unless you can't because your detractors are right.

[Morari]

BTW, anyone wanna give a mini-review of Mass Effect 2?

If you liked the first Mass Effect, you'll probably like the second one well enough. If you didn't like the first Mass Effect, you might like the second game.

What I mean is, the first game was a great RPG with an epic story. It had some issues, such as a terrible inventory system and some dumb tank levels. The second game pretty much disregards all of the RPG aspects and strips the story down to just a bunch of missions to recruit your team and earn their loyalty. Instead of fixing the cumbersome inventory system from the first game, they got rid of all inventory management. It does however improve the combat and dialogue options throughout. So what you get is a third-person cover shooter with some really good, interactive dialogue sequences.

It does some things right, but so completely waters down other aspects that it's hard to rate. I personally don't think that it's as good as the first game. It's certainly a lot shorter. That said, I had fun playing it. I hope that the third game strikes a better balance between the previous two installments. The story needs to be grander, with fewer companions to butter up. The RPG aspects need to be brought back to the front and center, which means having a good choice in armor and weapons as well as their modifiers. The missions need to diverge a lot more as well. ME2 was far too linear.

[mac<censored>]

The second game pretty much disregards all of the RPG aspects and strips the story down to just a bunch of missions to recruit your team and earn their loyalty.

Thanks!  Sounds like ME2 repeats all the mistakes of DA:O, and then some. I suppose it basically depends on whether the shooting is fun enough or not... :[

[Chozo Ghost]

Unless you are insane or stupid, when given a chance to squash criticism you take it, unless you can't because your detractors are right.

Or maybe you want to lull your enemies into a false sense of security and get them to underestimate you, so that at the right moment you can take them by surprise and defeat them.

Isn't that really what Nintendo did in the last generation? I know you think the Wii hardware sucks, but you have to admit that it was a huge commercial success for Nintendo and helped them rake in money by the billions. Most people thought Nintendo was on its last legs and wasn't any threat at all, but the Wii took everyone by surprise and well, the rest is history... So that goes to show what can happen when your enemies underestimate you. I'm sure Sun Tzu probably wrote a thing or too about that in his Art of War book, and maybe that's something Iwata read and used to get inspiration for the Wii.

[broodwars]

The second game pretty much disregards all of the RPG aspects and strips the story down to just a bunch of missions to recruit your team and earn their loyalty.

Thanks!  Sounds like ME2 repeats all the mistakes of DA:O, and then some. I suppose it basically depends on whether the shooting is fun enough or not... :[

I would do some more research before you take just his opinion as the one and only truth.  Mass Effect 2 was a great game, IMO.  For quite a few people (including me), it was the Game of the Year last year.  Yes, it dropped some of the needless B.S. that shackles the RPG genre from evolving and yes, pretty much the whole game is spent recruiting your crew.  However, I and many, many others found that experience to be very entertaining and immersive.  It all comes down to what you want in the game.  I came in wanting Epic Space Opera, and that's exactly what the game delivers.  The cast of characters is excellent, the combat is well-done, and you still have plenty of places to explore, people to meet, and quests to fulfill.  Unlike its predecessor, the second game just more fully embraces the core concept of being a space-based RPG with cover-based shooting by dropping things like dice rolls and other assorted math deciding the game for you.  By all means, check it out, though I will warn you that the experience is greatly diminished without playing the first game.

[Stogi]

I wouldn't say that. I haven't played the first and I loved the second (although I haven't finished it).

[broodwars]

I wouldn't say that. I haven't played the first and I loved the second (although I haven't finished it).

Well, perhaps you can only tell if you've played the game with ME1 import data.  I've played the game twice: once on 360 with my ME1 save data, and once on the PS3 without any save data.  It definitely was a lesser experience on PS3 without my ME1 choices and all the little references.

[Stogi]

Yeah I can see that. Like watching a sequel to a movie you haven't seen.

[Ceric]

That Interview does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy.  In fact it makes me feel online will be GameCubed.  Their was something else butI don't remember.

[SixthAngel]

It seems fairly obvious that Nintendo isn't announcing much because they aren't close to finished with it yet.

I said that they would watch the 3ds shop and online at first and Reggie seemed to confirm it.  We can gather the basics of the system by looking at the 3DS and imagine things built up from there.  The rest was just the "we support the third parties" tripe.

Yes, it dropped some of the needless B.S. that shackles the RPG genre from evolving

Can you expand on this because I have no idea what you mean.