Author Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?  (Read 1572555 times)

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #525 on: June 16, 2011, 01:13:04 AM »
I think metaphors are more helpful to get the point across. :P Dinosaurs are primitive creatures, so that works here because the R700 series is fairly old. As for the Apache Helicopters, that came from Battlefield BC2 which I spent all night playing last night. Our team got raped by them circling around over our only spawn area and not letting us get anywhere or do anything.

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #526 on: June 16, 2011, 09:07:27 AM »
Report: Developers Working With ‘Underclocked’ Wii U Hardware
http://kotaku.com/5812391/report-developers-working-with-underclocked-wii-u-hardware
Quote
There's a good reason that Nintendo showed off video game footage culled from the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions of third-party games, not the Wii U, at last week's E3 unveiling of the console.

According to a Wii U white paper published by Hit Detection, the consulting company founded by former Newsweek journalist N'Gai Croal, the kits in developers' hands are just not up to current-gen snuff, but they are working.
Quote from: From the report
Developers have underclocked development kits, and worked hard to deliver titles running on that hardware to demonstrate live at E3. However, due to titles not looking much better than what is currently available on Xbox 360 and the PS3, Nintendo decided late in the game to not show those titles and focus instead on tech demos. In particular, THQ stated that Darksiders II was running on development hardware and could have been shown.

It's potentially promising for Nintendo fans that some third party games may look close or on par with current console competition at this stage of development.

So Devs are reporting leaked info from underclocked/underpowered Dev kits which would mean they are working on lesser version of hardware than what we will see in the final kits. But atleast WiiU games in early kits look like PS360 games, I guess it can only get better from there.

Makes sense actually, it seems like their focus was on showcasing the Wii U controller, not the graphical abilities at E3 besides the Zelda interactive video. Probably because things are in such early stages and don't look all that great. they would have had more of a mess to clean up if 3rd party multiplatform games looked WORSE then 360/PS3.
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Offline stevey

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Re: Devs working on Underclocked WiiU kits
« Reply #527 on: June 16, 2011, 10:14:29 AM »
Report: Developers Working With ‘Underclocked’ Wii U Hardware
http://kotaku.com/5812391/report-developers-working-with-underclocked-wii-u-hardware
Quote
There's a good reason that Nintendo showed off video game footage culled from the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions of third-party games, not the Wii U, at last week's E3 unveiling of the console.

According to a Wii U white paper published by Hit Detection, the consulting company founded by former Newsweek journalist N'Gai Croal, the kits in developers' hands are just not up to current-gen snuff, but they are working.
Quote from: From the report
Developers have underclocked development kits, and worked hard to deliver titles running on that hardware to demonstrate live at E3. However, due to titles not looking much better than what is currently available on Xbox 360 and the PS3, Nintendo decided late in the game to not show those titles and focus instead on tech demos. In particular, THQ stated that Darksiders II was running on development hardware and could have been shown.

It's potentially promising for Nintendo fans that some third party games may look close or on par with current console competition at this stage of development.

So Devs are reporting leaked info from underclocked/underpowered Dev kits which would mean they are working on lesser version of hardware than what we will see in the final kits. But atleast WiiU games in early kits look like PS360 games, I guess it can only get better from there.

I think you're reading too much into things. Nintendo probably just wanted to test out what they could do at different clock speeds and underclocked it when they found a good fit for where they wanted the final console to be at.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #528 on: June 16, 2011, 12:26:17 PM »
Or they underclocked to increase yields so that they could get a test chip out to more devs before E3. And if that is the reason they underclocked the chips, then it's also possible that they disabled some features just to get the chip out the door faster.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #529 on: June 16, 2011, 01:09:11 PM »
I remember reading that preliminary Xbox 360 development kits were Mac G5s (not sure if that was validated). That said, I think it's certainly within the realm of possibility that Nintendo pieced together the based models what IBM and AMD were customizing for WiiU and sent that to 3rd parties, telling them, "This is the bare minimum of what WiiU can do. The processors are far from finished but as you can see, it's capable of handling whatever current generation consoles can do and a little more. Do what you can and we'll send you final kits when they're ready."

Will the final product blow these kits away? Probably not, but a sizable jump in efficiency and processing power with some modern effects worked in is not only likely but expected.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #530 on: June 16, 2011, 01:57:12 PM »
It can't be that much different than the finished product because they had Wii U console boxes sitting in the display bays playing the tech demoes and ghost recon. I guess there could be a big box sitting behind the facade with the parts in it, they did that in the early 360 demos.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 01:59:36 PM by ShyGuy »

Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #531 on: June 16, 2011, 02:09:29 PM »
It also depends on when Nintendo sent out those development kits to developers, if there are multiple versions and if so, who has what. That may explain why the estimates vary so greatly though that could just be plain subjectivity. Nintendo could have made those E3 boxes a week before the show so that could be final or just the latest version of the hardware. WiiU won't go into production for another few months so it's possible IBM and AMD are still tweaking them. Like I said in another thread, until we get final specs, there's really no telling just how powerful WiiU is. The estimates are all over the charts.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #532 on: June 16, 2011, 02:57:05 PM »
I know there was a rumor that WiiU production was supposed to start in October, but I really don't think that is gonna happen. Why would Nintendo produce full units to sit on for 8 months till launch?
Instead, I think that might be when the chips are likely to be finalized and final dev kits might go out just after that. I wouldn't see actual units getting produced until a few months before launch (production start in April 2012?)


Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #533 on: June 16, 2011, 03:06:38 PM »
They could be stockpiling them to prevent shortages like what happened with the Wii. The difference is I can't see the same thing happening with WiiU where Nintendo had such a hard time keeping it on shelves and it takes quite some time to change the production schedule. The tablet controller is an interesting concept but the innovation tends to skew more towards benefiting core gamers. I'm not convinced it's radical enough to incite the kind of reaction the Wii did. Additionally, I'm still unsure how Nintendo plans to explain to casual gamers how this is something new when the console looks comparable to the Wii and it uses the old controllers. Some casuals will get it, some will not.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #534 on: June 16, 2011, 03:23:12 PM »
I guess they should have done something drastic with the appearance of the Wii U Console, just to make it look different

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Multiple WiiU controllers are possible, but cost too much
« Reply #535 on: June 16, 2011, 05:27:18 PM »
Multiple Wii U Controllers Are a Cost Issue
Considerable price increase to support more than 1?
http://kotaku.com/5812512/multiple-wii-u-controllers-are-a-cost-issue
Quote
"There's a cost issue," Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told Japanese business site Diamond Online. According to Iwata, Nintendo aims to have the console and games support one Wii U Controller.

"Technically, it is possible for the Wii U to support multiple Wii U Controllers," Iwata said. However, this will result in a "considerable" price increase.

According to Iwata, "We're not planning on asking our customers to buy multiple Wii U Controllers."
source

Not supporting 2 Umotes is a very big mistake I think.
By not supporting 2 at the minimum, you are severely limiting your local multiplayer options.
Depending on what that cost is, and I'm assuming it's an extra transmitter or 3 or 4, then Nintendo should either pass part of it on, eat it outright or include an expansion port to insert extra transmitter(s) should the need ever arrive and/or the price hit the right spot.

Ofcourse I'm not in a position to know exactly what that extra cost is, but if it's just an extra $30-$50 that is preventing Nintendo from launching at that $299-$349 price point they are trying to reach, then just eat it and make it up in software and extra controller sales. (uPlay at launch solves the whole problem)

Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #536 on: June 16, 2011, 05:57:38 PM »
This isn't a cost issue. Nintendo is going to sell at a profit because that's what Nintendo does. They're trying to sound noble by saying that they're not asking consumers to buy multiple controllers. What they're really saying is that they would rather strip functionality than foot the bill for consumers which they don't even have to do if they still insist on being money serpents (increase the price, sell at a profit anyway). I'm not really convinced that cost has anything to do with it. This is totally what Nintendo would do because well, just because it's Nintendo and they make these weird decisions. How about they just support multiple controllers and not tell anyone about how much it costs? That way, no one knows about the supposed cost and the world can go right back to spinning. Add the fact that no one would complain about the cost because oh, I don't know, multiple controllers is something we all expect from a videogame system. Wii Remotes/classic controllers are NOT acceptable alternatives when the big to-do about and the whole point of the new system is that controller with the large f-ing screen. Hmm... I might have bought Iwata's reasoning if he didn't admit that the 3DS was priced well beyond acceptability because people liked it at E3 last year.

No option for DVD/Blu-Ray playback and support for only one controller. It's starting to sound like a Nintendo console now. I'm significantly less impressed. I hope they reconsider on at least the controller thing because Nintendo is the only one who thinks that's a good idea.

Also, consider that Nintendo can only get away with saying this until the console launches because iSuppli is going to do a teardown analysis within days and tell everyone what everything costs.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 06:09:45 PM by Adrock »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #537 on: June 16, 2011, 07:05:24 PM »
just because Nintendo isn't supporting 2 controllers doesnt mean 3rd parties wont. Everything is still very early, and the next press conference will have all the answers. If Wii u does as well as Wii then there will be lots of Wii U controllers to play multiplayer on. Actually its probably best to wait till marketshare is 10+ million before even making 2 tablet games.
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Offline MorbidGod

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Re: Multiple WiiU controllers are possible, but cost too much
« Reply #538 on: June 16, 2011, 08:21:58 PM »
Multiple Wii U Controllers Are a Cost Issue
Considerable price increase to support more than 1?
http://kotaku.com/5812512/multiple-wii-u-controllers-are-a-cost-issue
Quote
"There's a cost issue," Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told Japanese business site Diamond Online. According to Iwata, Nintendo aims to have the console and games support one Wii U Controller.

"Technically, it is possible for the Wii U to support multiple Wii U Controllers," Iwata said. However, this will result in a "considerable" price increase.

According to Iwata, "We're not planning on asking our customers to buy multiple Wii U Controllers."
source

Not supporting 2 Umotes is a very big mistake I think.
By not supporting 2 at the minimum, you are severely limiting your local multiplayer options.
Depending on what that cost is, and I'm assuming it's an extra transmitter or 3 or 4, then Nintendo should either pass part of it on, eat it outright or include an expansion port to insert extra transmitter(s) should the need ever arrive and/or the price hit the right spot.

Ofcourse I'm not in a position to know exactly what that extra cost is, but if it's just an extra $30-$50 that is preventing Nintendo from launching at that $299-$349 price point they are trying to reach, then just eat it and make it up in software and extra controller sales. (uPlay at launch solves the whole problem)

 
He said they don't plan on asking their customer to spend money on a second controller and that it is possible. Meaning they aren't going to have games to require you to have to or more tablet controllers and all local games will use the wiimote or classic controller.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #539 on: June 16, 2011, 09:21:46 PM »
Yeah, I can see how one can read it that way, but doesn't that go without saying? How many games require more than one controller? It's an odd way of phrasing it. A more appropriate way to say it would be, "WiiU will support multiple [tablet controllers] but we are not planning on releasing any games that require more than one. There will always be an option to use the Classic controller for multiplayer games as we do not want to force our consumers to own more than [the tablet controller] that comes with the console."

What it sounds like Iwata is saying is, "WiiU is perfectly capable of supporting multiple [tablet controllers] but we are not including this functionality due to cost," which, let's be honest, is total bullshit. I don't need to own 4 Wii remotes (and I don't), but I can if I want and it's certainly very expensive especially when coupled with nunchucks. Nintendo never asked anyone to invest that much money. However, the possibility is there and Nintendo let the consumer decide.

I remember reading how Nintendo originally didn't think of the nunchuck for the Wii and that the idea came from Retro Studios. Apparently, they seriously considered the Wii remote without the nunchuck. Holy lack of foresight, Batman. That said, and if Nintendo is currently planning on not supporting multiple tablet controllers since the quote is rather unclear, I hope Retro or any number of 3rd parties steps in and explains why that would be a terrible idea.

Offline MorbidGod

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #540 on: June 16, 2011, 11:52:58 PM »
Yeah, I can see how one can read it that way, but doesn't that go without saying? How many games require more than one controller? It's an odd way of phrasing it. A more appropriate way to say it would be, "WiiU will support multiple [tablet controllers] but we are not planning on releasing any games that require more than one. There will always be an option to use the Classic controller for multiplayer games as we do not want to force our consumers to own more than [the tablet controller] that comes with the console."

What it sounds like Iwata is saying is, "WiiU is perfectly capable of supporting multiple [tablet controllers] but we are not including this functionality due to cost," which, let's be honest, is total bullshit. I don't need to own 4 Wii remotes (and I don't), but I can if I want and it's certainly very expensive especially when coupled with nunchucks. Nintendo never asked anyone to invest that much money. However, the possibility is there and Nintendo let the consumer decide.

I remember reading how Nintendo originally didn't think of the nunchuck for the Wii and that the idea came from Retro Studios. Apparently, they seriously considered the Wii remote without the nunchuck. Holy lack of foresight, Batman. That said, and if Nintendo is currently planning on not supporting multiple tablet controllers since the quote is rather unclear, I hope Retro or any number of 3rd parties steps in and explains why that would be a terrible idea.

You have to understand that this was translated and more then likely not very well. It's possible the way he said it was correct in his language but translated incorrectly. And I can believe that. Probably very early in it's development though.

The thing is, we don't know how much this controller actually costs. Sure, Nintendo can choose to loose profit and sell it at the same price as the Wiimote/nunchuck combo ($60 dollars) but why should they? It's a business, they have to make money. And how much R&D did they spend developing this controller? I know the R&D was the reason the original Wii was not HD -- Nintendo could spend the money on HD hardware, or the Wiimote. They choose Wiimote. So if they spent over 500 million dollars in development of this new controller -- which is possible -- they have to pay for that some how. Then consider how many your actually going to sell. Most people start out not buying many controllers. To this day, I only bought two and the one that came with the system, and I don't have nunchucks to go with those Wiimotes, either. If they only make 20 dollars per WiiPad they would make $20,000 per 10,000 WiiPad's sold.

And according to Sony, with the PS3 Move controller, people generally bought the controller as a bundle -- new PS3 console or bundled with a game -- and not actually by itself. Look at this article.

So the question remains, why should Nintendo loose not only profit, but money on the actual research, for this controller? They are not Sony or Microsoft. They can't afford to loose money. They only make games and game hardware. They started out as a card company, too (random piece of info). So they aren't going to do that, and they shouldn't.

And just to show you what I am talking about look at this forum topic. http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33933013
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 12:09:43 AM by MorbidGod »

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #541 on: June 17, 2011, 12:19:18 AM »
They aren't gonna make any profit on the controller if they don't sell it separately, so what's your point?

They bundle it in with the system, and then that's all they have sold. The ones with the system.
They sell it separately and then they stand a chance at making back that initial investment through profit from additional controllers. Even if it is at reduced profit, it's still additional profit.

To use your own example (on which your math is wrong BTW).
$20 per uMote x 10,000,000 sold is an extra  $200,000,000 that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

They aren't recouping anything if they don't sell it separately at a profit.
How do you think Nintendo made such a huge profit this gen? Alot of it was on overpriced Wiimotes which only cost them currently $6 to make.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 12:24:50 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline MorbidGod

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #542 on: June 17, 2011, 12:43:29 AM »
They aren't gonna make any profit on the controller if they don't sell it separately, so what's your point?

They bundle it in with the system, and then that's all they have sold. The ones with the system.
They sell it separately and then they stand a chance at making back that initial investment through profit from additional controllers. Even if it is at reduced profit, it's still additional profit.

To use your own example (on which your math is wrong BTW).
$20 per uMote x 10,000,000 sold is an extra  $200,000,000 that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

They aren't recouping anything if they don't sell it separately at a profit.
How do you think Nintendo made such a huge profit this gen? Alot of it was on overpriced Wiimotes which only cost them currently $6 to make.

I think your not getting my point, and thats fine my post was a bit fragmented. So I'll try to sell it again, then add some new info that will clarify this even more. Man, this is a confusing topic!! Thanks Nintendo for not doing a good job of explaining this.

Yes, they would sell some more WiiPads -- or uMote as you call it -- if they sold it separately. But they would have to sell it higher because as I explained, people don't generally buy a second or third controller. For instance, Sony doesn't reveal how many separate controller sell only how many they ship. Probably because it would look bad if they shipped 4 million but only sold 1.5 million. And if they sell more with bundles with hardware and games then they do by themselves, then what guarantee does Nintendo have they would even sell 10k of these uMotes? They know how many controllers they have sold in the first year. And total. So it's a business, they need to way the costs and the pros & cons.

However, it also needs to be said Nintendo changes their minds on a daily basis. Some of this I think is poor translation and getting to us American's it just confuses us. Any way ... here is another quote.

Quote
"In the future, we may look at what other opportunities there are for gameplay and, how having two of those controllers might create fun or interesting new styles of play, but of course in doing that, it would require a consumer to purchase an additional controller. Therefore, we would need to carefully consider how we could create such an experience and, potentially, how we could ensure that there would be enough value within that experience for the consumer to accept that cost and make that purchase."

Consider the value of something they aren't selling? How can a consume purchase something they aren't going to sell? It looks like they plan on selling the controllers, but aren't going to force the consumer to buy multiple controllers at launch and might in the future, when they figure out ways to make it worth it to the consumer.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #543 on: June 17, 2011, 12:55:17 AM »
1st: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104679-65-Million-Wii-Remotes-Sold-in-the-United-States
that was from Oct. of last year.
65 Million wiimotes sold in the US alone as of 8 months ago.
There are less than 45million Wiis sold in the U.S., that averages out to about 1.5 extra controllers per Wii sold in the U.S.
@ an average of $20 profit per controller, that equals $1.3Billion dollars and that is just in the US alone.

2nd: All Nintendo needs to do to ensure people buy the second remote is to make software that supports it.
uPlay anyone? Timesplitter 4u, Mario Kart U, New Super Mario Bros U, 4 Swords U, and the list goes on and on.
They could build a 2 player UFit and the casuals would flock.
If Nintendo builds the software, then the value is already there. They just have to market it correctly.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 12:58:11 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #544 on: June 17, 2011, 02:08:28 AM »
If they sell a $129 dollar additional controller they do open themselves up to criticism. They are darned if they do, danged if they don't.

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #545 on: June 17, 2011, 02:12:28 AM »
True, but I seriously doubt there is anything in that controller to warrant a $130 sales price even with a $20-$30 profit margin.

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #546 on: June 17, 2011, 04:17:59 AM »
1st: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104679-65-Million-Wii-Remotes-Sold-in-the-United-States
that was from Oct. of last year.
65 Million wiimotes sold in the US alone as of 8 months ago.
There are less than 45million Wiis sold in the U.S., that averages out to about 1.5 extra controllers per Wii sold in the U.S.
@ an average of $20 profit per controller, that equals $1.3Billion dollars and that is just in the US alone.

2nd: All Nintendo needs to do to ensure people buy the second remote is to make software that supports it.
uPlay anyone? Timesplitter 4u, Mario Kart U, New Super Mario Bros U, 4 Swords U, and the list goes on and on.
They could build a 2 player UFit and the casuals would flock.
If Nintendo builds the software, then the value is already there. They just have to market it correctly.

That a 40-50 dollar remote. Double that, and see if gamers will still buy it. But you must have missed the part in my post saying NINTENDO PLANS ON SELLING THE CONTROLLER BY ITSELF and is ASKING HOW CAN THEY MAKE IT WORTH THE HIGHER price. The wiimote prob costs 25 dollars to make. This one prob costs more, anywhere from 50-60 dollars. If they sell it for 70 they make ten, 80 they make 20. but if they want the same profit margin then it will cost closer to 100 that I suggested.

And you need to read your source.

Quote
Here are the complete statistics of Wii controllers sold in the U.S. as supplied by NPD:
 
  • 30.41 million included with the Wii hardware
  • 12.92 million sold with  Wii Play
  • 18.56 million white versions sold separately
  • 2.44 million black versions sold separately
  • 467,500 pink versions sold separately
  • 465,200 blue versions sold separately

They sold the most with hardware. I said that would happen. They sold second amount white. Considering 30 million wii's were sold, it probably was people buying a second controller to play with friends. Third most bundled with a game. Again, I said that would happen.

I doubt Nintendo is going to sell 30 million. Look how many the Wii sold here. That smaller amount will mean less people buying them for their friends to pla with, especially if Nintendo is not going to force people to buy another one at launch to play with their friends. So you have to consider that, as well.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 04:51:40 AM by MorbidGod »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #547 on: June 17, 2011, 06:59:10 AM »
releasing a console is always starting over. Also,, Nintendo keeps tabs on what you play....maybe they know what people play and what people dont?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 07:00:58 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #548 on: June 17, 2011, 09:13:32 AM »
Nintendo can only keep tabs on consoles connected to the internet. They can use that data but it's inherently flawed.

I remember reading that the most recent estimates for the cost of raw parts in the Wii remote was something like $6 to $7. I looked for the source however I'm sorry to say that the pre-Webkit Blackberry browser and my work computer running IE6 with most sites blocked aren't terribly conducive for research. I was able to find out that the raw materials for the Wii console was like $160 in 2006, reduced by 45% in 2009. That said, sub-$10 cost of parts for the controller isn't all that surprising. Note that this does not include Motion Plus or Remote Plus but I can't imagine it bumping the cost up significantly. A comment on one of the sites I was browsing mentioned the price of parts at $9.83 and provided an iSuppli link that I couldn't click on so take that for what it's worth.

Assuming the WiiU controller uses the same basic parts as a Wii Remote Plus along with a 6 inch resistive touch screen, I really doubt the controller's raw parts cost more than $40, $50 tops. Nintendo could sell the tablet controller for $60 to $80. That's comparable to Playstation Move/Navigation controller and what Nintendo asked for a Wii Remote, Motion Plus and Nunchuck.

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Re: Wii U
« Reply #549 on: June 17, 2011, 09:34:18 AM »
Nintendo can only keep tabs on consoles connected to the internet. They can use that data but it's inherently flawed.

I remember reading that the most recent estimates for the cost of raw parts in the Wii remote was something like $6 to $7. I looked for the source however I'm sorry to say that the pre-Webkit Blackberry browser and my work computer running IE6 with most sites blocked aren't terribly conducive for research. I was able to find out that the raw materials for the Wii console was like $160 in 2006, reduced by 45% in 2009. That said, sub-$10 cost of parts for the controller isn't all that surprising. Note that this does not include Motion Plus or Remote Plus but I can't imagine it bumping the cost up significantly. A comment on one of the sites I was browsing mentioned the price of parts at $9.83 and provided an iSuppli link that I couldn't click on so take that for what it's worth.

Assuming the WiiU controller uses the same basic parts as a Wii Remote Plus along with a 6 inch resistive touch screen, I really doubt the controller's raw parts cost more than $40, $50 tops. Nintendo could sell the tablet controller for $60 to $80. That's comparable to Playstation Move/Navigation controller and what Nintendo asked for a Wii Remote, Motion Plus and Nunchuck.

I remember reading that too, and I was unable to find a source of how much a controller costs to make. However, this controller more then likely will cost more because of that touch screen and depends on the quality -- and most people at E3 said it's a good quality. We don't know if the controller has a processor inside, and we don't even know the wireless technology they are using to stream to the controller. Could be blutooth like the Wiimote but it has not been confirmed.

However i did find a source saying the Wiimote costs 25 dollars to make, but it was on a forum, so it's prob not 100% factual.  And the cost of the Wii does not include the remote. I find that odd, you think it would have been included, but it was not.

At any rate, it is pointless to argue about prices when Nintendo is going to sell it seperately. It also matters how many they plan on making. If they make it in small supply, then it will cost more. And if they are serious on not asking you to use more then one uMote, then making them in smaller number and at a higher price makes sense.