Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[Chozo Ghost]

The only way Nintendo will get exclusive hardcore games is if they make them themselves, or have one of their 2nd parties like Retro do it. One thing you find lacking in the Nintendo library is the FPS genre of games. There is of course the Metroid Prime series, and jack **** else. I don't want to see Metroid hijacked for that purpose, so I think a new franchise needs to be created from scratch. Sony did it with Killzone and Microsoft did it with Halo, so why can't Nintendo do it? I understand this genre isn't very popular in Japan, and that may be the reason why they don't do it, but it is very popular in the west and is a crucial piece of the puzzle if they want to win hardcore gamers over.

[oohhboy]

They did try back on the Gamecube, it was called Geist remember? No, Nintendo does want to just make a FPS, they want to make a FPS that isn't just a Space Marines with lots of Pew! Pew! with XTREAM GFX BLAST POWER. Nintendo sees that as the absolute minimum, something to go beyond.

So no, we will not be seeing a "traditional" FPS from Nintendo ever.

[Morari]

Let's leave the FPS genre where it belongs: on the PC.

Still, Nintendo could definitely do with some more varied "adult" games. I'm tempted to sell the Wii just so I can play Mortal Kombat, for example.

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo has no problem with third parties bringing mature content to their systems (not that they do), but Nintendo themselves won't make such content. The T rating for Twilight Princess is as far as they go. Of course, Microsoft and Sony have no qualms about doing that sort of content, and they do it regularly.

[BlackNMild2k1]

They did try back on the Gamecube, it was called Geist remember? No, Nintendo does want to just make a FPS, they want to make a FPS that isn't just a Space Marines with lots of Pew! Pew! with XTREAM GFX BLAST POWER. Nintendo sees that as the absolute minimum, something to go beyond.

So no, we will not be seeing a "traditional" FPS from Nintendo ever.

Geist had a good idea behind it. I should pick that back u and try it again.

It's too bad that wasn't one of the Wiimakes Nintendo decided to release..

[Adrock]

I think there's a sizable amount of core Wii owners who have not purchased PS3 or 360. WiiU is right up their alley and they'll buy the cross-platform 3rd party games at launch.

I'm still not quite sure why the lack of announced 1st party WiiU titles is so baffling to people. Hardware unveilings generally do not have any games far enough to show let alone be playable. If Nintendo said, "We're developing Mario and Zelda for WiiU," would that really have been the Mentos freshmaker for your mind? Is that SO much more reassuring than the natural assumption that Nintendo is ALWAYS working on new games, namely Mario and Zelda because they are, in fact, a games developer? WiiU is an entire year away. Anyone who's like "Why would I buy this? There are no games," needs the shut the hell up. Nintendo WILL announce titles in due time so please simmer the F down and wash the sand out of your vaginas. Cheezus Motherfucking Christ...

[This post was sponsored by frustration and Mentos, the freshmaker]

[ShyGuy]

Mentos, Fresh and Full of Life!

[Caterkiller]

I think there's a sizable amount of core Wii owners who have not purchased PS3 or 360. WiiU is right up their alley and they'll buy the cross-platform 3rd party games at launch.

I'm still not quite sure why the lack of announced 1st party WiiU titles is so baffling to people. Hardware unveilings generally do not have any games far enough to show let alone be playable. If Nintendo said, "We're developing Mario and Zelda for WiiU," would that really have been the Mentos freshmaker for your mind? Is that SO much more reassuring than the natural assumption that Nintendo is ALWAYS working on new games, namely Mario and Zelda because they are, in fact, a games developer? WiiU is an entire year away. Anyone who's like "Why would I buy this? There are no games," needs the shut the hell up. Nintendo WILL announce titles in due time so please simmer the F down and wash the sand out of your vaginas. Cheezus Motherfucking Christ...

[This post was sponsored by frustration and Mentos, the freshmaker]

THANK YOU!

[Ian Sane]

The only way Nintendo will get exclusive hardcore games is if they make them themselves, or have one of their 2nd parties like Retro do it.

Exactly.  Third parties don't really make exclusives that much anymore.  And if Nintendo is just throwing out Wii Series junk and expecting the third parties to handle the core part, they're only going to sell to Wii owners who never bought a second console.
 
The problem is Nintendo has moved more and more into sticking with their existing IP.  They take talented devs like Retro and stick them entirely with sequels to existing Nintendo IP.  So we don't get anything new and if Mario, Metroid and Zelda doesn't sell someone on the Wii U, they won't buy it because there won't be anything else.  Nintendo's current practices prohibit anything new attracting core gamers because they never make anything new for core gamers.  We'll never get an exclusive Nintendo FPS unless they shoehorn some existing Nintendo IP into it.
 
There are a lot of factors at play and a lot of things that need to be considered.  I don't think Nintendo realizes that judging by what they showed at E3.  There is a huge difference between starting a new generation at the same time as everyone else where every customer is considering buying a new system.  The goal is to get them to pick yours.  But in this case the competition's userbases don't NEED to buy a new system because those systems are still current.  They have to get them to SWITCH which is WAY harder.

[MorbidGod]

The only way Nintendo will get exclusive hardcore games is if they make them themselves, or have one of their 2nd parties like Retro do it.

Exactly.  Third parties don't really make exclusives that much anymore.  And if Nintendo is just throwing out Wii Series junk and expecting the third parties to handle the core part, they're only going to sell to Wii owners who never bought a second console.
 
The problem is Nintendo has moved more and more into sticking with their existing IP.  They take talented devs like Retro and stick them entirely with sequels to existing Nintendo IP.  So we don't get anything new and if Mario, Metroid and Zelda doesn't sell someone on the Wii U, they won't buy it because there won't be anything else.  Nintendo's current practices prohibit anything new attracting core gamers because they never make anything new for core gamers.  We'll never get an exclusive Nintendo FPS unless they shoehorn some existing Nintendo IP into it.
 
There are a lot of factors at play and a lot of things that need to be considered.  I don't think Nintendo realizes that judging by what they showed at E3.  There is a huge difference between starting a new generation at the same time as everyone else where every customer is considering buying a new system.  The goal is to get them to pick yours.  But in this case the competition's userbases don't NEED to buy a new system because those systems are still current.  They have to get them to SWITCH which is WAY harder.

I am not trying to distract from your overall point. Yes, Nintendo does stick to it's existing IP's instead of making new ones. However, you fail to mention the other publishers that do that. So I will make a list for you:

EA: Madden, Sims, Battlefield, Need for Speed.
Capcom: Devil May Cry and Resident Evil
Microsoft: Halo
Square Enix: Final Fantasy

However, I have to admit that Nintendo is more guilty then the other companies. The best publisher is probably Ubisoft. They have made more new titles and continued with their franchises. But that still does not negate from the fact that Nintendo is not the only one who sticks to it's original IP's.

Of course, not many publishers have such a huge line up of top selling IP's. You named a few, Zelda, Mario and Metroid. However you have Kirby, Kid Icuris, Super Smash Bros, Star Fox, F-Zero, Metal Combat, Donkey Kong, Earth Bound, Fire Emblem, Ice Climber, and I am sure I am missing some still. The good thing is, giving Metroid to Retro was the best thing Nintendo has ever done. And letting them have some fun with Donkey Kong was also a good idea. It was a game that was old and almost forgotten, and then bam Nintendo revived it.

So yes, they need to make some new IP's (not like they haven't -- Animal Crossing and Pikman are both newer IP's) but I would like to see some older games on Wii U. Star Fox for instance.

[Ian Sane]

I am not trying to distract from your overall point. Yes, Nintendo does stick to it's existing IP's instead of making new ones. However, you fail to mention the other publishers that do that.

I never said other companies don't also do that.  But the point stands that if you're not interested in the existing Nintendo franchises, they're not going to win you over.  And that's what the exclusives for the Wii U are going to be.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I am not trying to distract from your overall point. Yes, Nintendo does stick to it's existing IP's instead of making new ones. However, you fail to mention the other publishers that do that.

I never said other companies don't also do that.  But the point stands that if you're not interested in the existing Nintendo franchises, they're not going to win you over.  And that's what the exclusives for the Wii U are going to be.

Can I have your magic 8 ball that says Nintendo games are the only exclusives for Wii U?

Also like others said, exclusives are few and far between when it comes to 3rd parties. Now in regards to why people would care about Wii U, well anyone with a brain knows Nintendo will have plenty of exclusive first party games, and 3rd party games will likely utilize the motion controls along with the Wii U controller. That in itself can be a selling point especially if you don't like playing a genre like FPS games with dual analog. Not to mention there will likely be exclusive features, like Mass Effect 2 had for PS3.

Really you can use the argument "Why would I care about X system if I dont' like Sony/MS/Nintendo exclusives". The fact of the matter is that many of these 3rd party launch titles is just a temporary stop gap, after that they games should start releasing simultaneously.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo: We Should Have Explained Wii U Better
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35156/Nintendo_We_Should_Have_Explained_Wii_U_Better.php

Nintendo has admitted that it put too much emphasis on the controller for the newly revealed Wii U console, noting that it "should have made more effort" to explain the console better.
[...]
"Because we put so much emphasis on the controller, there appeared to be some misunderstandings," he said. "We should have made more effort to explain how it works."

"We haven't made any kind of blunder, but I should have shown a single picture of the new console, then started talking about the controller," he continued. "The console is not drastically different, and Wii U is about the controller. The console itself will be almost invisible."

Iwata said that the press was also to blame, noting that it's not possible to see how important the Wii U console is unless you've actually given it a try.

"There have been two groups of people writing about our announcement - those who have been able to experience the Wii U, and those who have not, and are simply writing about it from wire stories and pictures," he mused.

"They cannot see how this can be a game changer. It reminds me of 2006, when we introduced the Wii for the first time. Here in LA, people enjoyed it, but in Japan, the atmosphere was very different. It seems to be the same this year."

"What Wii U will offer is very different, but I believe we have the strong potential to change the entire format of videogames and of entertainment," he concluded.

Not to change the subject, but here is part of the reason why the stocks dropped.
The name WiiU didn't specifically define what they showed at the conference (the new controller) as part of a new system. Instead, the focus on only the new controller made it seem like WiiU was just a new controller designed to be used with the existing Wii (demonstration using wiimotes and balance board only adds to the confusion).


The other issues of course being that there were no games announced for anything other than the 3DS and over the next year, and even what was shown there wasn't all that exciting.

[MorbidGod]

I am not trying to distract from your overall point. Yes, Nintendo does stick to it's existing IP's instead of making new ones. However, you fail to mention the other publishers that do that.

I never said other companies don't also do that.  But the point stands that if you're not interested in the existing Nintendo franchises, they're not going to win you over.  And that's what the exclusives for the Wii U are going to be.

That is true, but then again who is to say their "new IP's" would appeal to people who don't like their existing ones? Nintendo doesn't generally make hardcore games. The last two games -- actual games, not the Wii ____ Series -- was Pikman and Animal Crossing. Both good games, and both games I will never play. Retro is really the only studio within Nintendo that would make games normally non-Nintendo gamers would like. They had some good concepts. Hopefully whatever they are working on will be an original idea.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I am not trying to distract from your overall point. Yes, Nintendo does stick to it's existing IP's instead of making new ones. However, you fail to mention the other publishers that do that.

I never said other companies don't also do that.  But the point stands that if you're not interested in the existing Nintendo franchises, they're not going to win you over.  And that's what the exclusives for the Wii U are going to be.

That is true, but then again who is to say their "new IP's" would appeal to people who don't like their existing ones? Nintendo doesn't generally make hardcore games. The last two games -- actual games, not the Wii ____ Series -- was Pikman and Animal Crossing. Both good games, and both games I will never play. Retro is really the only studio within Nintendo that would make games normally non-Nintendo gamers would like. They had some good concepts. Hopefully whatever they are working on will be an original idea.

Well there was Captain Rainbow, and Disaster Day of Crisis.  Then again neither of them came out in North America. They also have some new IPs like Endless Ocean, Excite! series, granted those were farmed out to 3rd parties but still they are new Nintendo IPs.

[Chozo Ghost]

Its not impossible that Nintendo may introduce some new IPs this generation, and I sincerely hope that they do, but their track record over the last 10 years is not very reassuring. The GC had a few new IPs like Pikmin, but the Wii didn't have any at all, unless you count the Wii series of games as new franchises, but I personally don't because the Wii series is just generic mostly casual stuff that isn't built around characters or environments. So as far as I'm concerned there was no new IPs during the Wii years.

The problem is all their studios are tied up 24/7/365 on churning out sequel after sequel to existing franchises, so nothing is available to work on anything new. One way they could fix this is create more studios, so that more can be put in the oven at a time. It also wouldn't hurt to just cut back on the sequels for a while. They can always be revisited later on, and as a matter of fact that's probably the better way to do it because if you come out with a sequel too soon odds are it will be too similar to the last game, but if you give it like a break then when a sequel finally does come it stands out more.

[Mop it up]

the Wii didn't have any at all, unless you count the Wii series of games as new franchises, but I personally don't because the Wii series is just generic mostly casual stuff that isn't built around characters or environments. So as far as I'm concerned there was no new IPs during the Wii years.

Then you weren't paying attention. Here are the new IPs for the Wii:

Art Style
Captain Rainbow
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Endless Ocean
FlingSmash
The Last Story
XenoBlade
Zangeki no Reginleiv

The problem is that half of them weren't released in North America. But the point still stands, Nintendo released some new IP on the Wii and will continue to do so with the Wii U. Let's just hope they get released here...

[NWR_insanolord]

I am not trying to distract from your overall point. Yes, Nintendo does stick to it's existing IP's instead of making new ones. However, you fail to mention the other publishers that do that.

I never said other companies don't also do that.  But the point stands that if you're not interested in the existing Nintendo franchises, they're not going to win you over.  And that's what the exclusives for the Wii U are going to be.

That is true, but then again who is to say their "new IP's" would appeal to people who don't like their existing ones? Nintendo doesn't generally make hardcore games. The last two games -- actual games, not the Wii ____ Series -- was Pikman and Animal Crossing. Both good games, and both games I will never play. Retro is really the only studio within Nintendo that would make games normally non-Nintendo gamers would like. They had some good concepts. Hopefully whatever they are working on will be an original idea.

Why won't you play Pikmin? Animal Crossing I can understand; I love it, but it's not for everyone. But Pikmin is something everybody needs to at least try. It's the best new IP (not just from Nintendo) of the last decade, and it takes the Nintendo approach of making a game in an existing genre but with an entirely unique (at least at the time) gameplay style. Go play it right now!

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo has no idea what it's doing for Online....
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-wii-u/716198

Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.

Just before that the Nintendo Rep said

We've always been about bringing gaming to the masses, but we've also tried to cater to the veteran gamers. We're disappointed that maybe not more of them didn't embrace the Wii as we had hoped. We're hoping that.. we listened to them and we're hoping that we really do make the console that they really do embrace and that they really want to play.

So why doesn't someone just go tell Nintendo that we want Valve to handle their online by bringing Steamworks to WiiU. There will not be a single person disappointed, neither 3rd party or gamer by that decision.

Can an NWR staff member PLEASE pass on the message. I know that E3 is already over and I hope that one of if not all of you had a chance to talk to someone important, but please reference this interview in an e-mail and pass our wishes along to them.

[Chozo Ghost]

Whatever you do, please don't allow EA to design the online system. That would be like having a fox guard the hen house.

[Adrock]

That was the impression I got when John Riccitiello for EA started talking at Nintendo's press conference. Unless Valve develops this for Nintendo, we're looking at an online platform that is at best comparable to Xbox Live but most likely much worse. If any other company was anywhere near as capable as Valve in this area, Steam wouldn't be so far ahead of the pack. Seriously, no one else is even close.

[ThePerm]

theres a new ip announced every generation

nes Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Kid Icarus
snes F-Zero, Starfox, (mario kart)
n64 (Banjo Kazooie, Conker, Perfect Dark..fail)
gcn Pikmin, Animal Crossing(a jp only n64 port)
Wii Miis

and Nintendo cant rely on Valve, Valve isnt a fan of consoles, and has exhibited laziness towards them. i would expect Nintendo to partner with Valve and then it get to be a delayed side project that never materializes...not a good idea.

[Morari]

Valve has consistently been porting their games over to consoles for the past several years. The ports all suck of course, but that's due to console limitations, not Valve.

I'm sure that Valve would jump on the chance to integrate Steam into yet another console. It helps with their brand and it helps sell games on all platforms that Steam is available for.

[Adrock]

Left 4 Dead doesn't suck and isn't a port. This is coming from someone who can barely play FPS without feeling horrible.

(Edit: not sure if PC or 360 was the lead platform so it may have been a port. Either way, it doesn't suck)

[Morari]

The enhanced graphical fidelity, support for mods and custom maps, dedicated servers, and more precise control methods on my PC say that it did suck.